"...major upheaval in debates over the language of mass atrocity..."
January 26, 2024 12:55 AM Subscribe
The Charge of Genocide - Darryl Li writes for Dissent Magazine: "Israel and its supporters have responded to the ICJ case with accusations of antisemitism (describing the case as “blood libel”), attempts at distraction (arguing over quantities of humanitarian aid it allows into the Gaza Strip), and technical legal objections. But South Africa’s willingness to file the case is a sign that the old tactics used to police discourse about genocide have lost much of their power."
(con't)
[...] The flipside of investing genocide with so much political weight is the need to ensure control over the term’s use. This gives rise to another rule: genocide accusations must be rare and extraordinary due to the crime’s supremely evil character. There are enough blind alleys built into the legal definition of genocide to stymie accusations that go against the preferences of the United States and Israel. But merely disputing the merits is not enough; preserving a monopoly on how the term is used requires wayward accusers to be delegitimized entirely.
[...] These [think]pieces gesture to a future in which the powerful decide that if they can’t control the use of the word genocide, it shouldn’t be used at all. In such a future, perhaps we would find new ways of understanding and responding to oppression that avoid reliance on spurious hierarchies of suffering. But the road to this goal likely runs not through improved legal definitions for mass atrocity, but through actually existing struggles for justice. Palestinians and their allies who have taken up the demand to stop the genocide are not cheapening the term. On the contrary, they are democratizing its power, extricating genocide from a desiccated legalism that serves the status quo and injecting it with an explicitly anticolonial politics instead.
Palestinians, like other colonized peoples, have long narrated their own experiences of mass violence with reference to genocide. And this isn’t the first time such charges have gained widespread international recognition: the UN General Assembly recognized the 1982 Israeli-sponsored massacre of Palestinian refugees in Sabra and Shatila in Lebanon as an act of genocide. This history is part of the backdrop for South Africa’s legal intervention. These anticolonial forces are not uttering genocide as a code word to radio in air strikes. They are naming Western—especially U.S.—complicity with genocide. Instead of using the term to short-circuit political thinking, here the demand to end genocide is merely one component of a broader struggle for Palestinian freedom and self-determination. Nothing can be more urgent than stopping genocide, and nothing could be more inadequate.
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Summary of the arguments on International Law Observer blog
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(Just Security) International Courts as the Last Hope for Humanity - There is much value in countries bringing these kinds of cases to the ICJ, the principal judicial organ of the United Nations: not least because the Organization’s political bodies have too often utterly failed to find a resolution. Such solemn proceedings have the minimum value of forcing the international community to confront the problem of armed conflicts that it must confront, even if the only way left to do that is through the international judicial system established precisely to resolve international disputes, where judges must necessarily cut through the political noise and partisan bias to answer questions of law. The more important question is whether countries who bring these cases could do more with it, in terms of who they sue and the issues they raise.
----
(The Nation) What Does It Mean to Be Palestinian Now? - After October 7, this question has become a matter of grave importance, amid crackdowns on free speech and protest. Five writers reflect on the state of Palestinian life today.
----
The Court will deliver its Order today (PDF):
THE HAGUE, 24 January 2024. On Friday 26 January 2024, the International Court of Justice will deliver its Order on the Request for the indication of provisional measures submitted by South Africa in the case concerning Application of the
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel). A public sitting will take place at 1 p.m. at the Peace Palace in The Hague, during which Judge Joan E. Donoghue, the President of the Court, will read the Court’s Order.
It is recalled that on 29 December 2023, South Africa filed an Application instituting proceedings against Israel concerning alleged violations by Israel of its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (the “Genocide Convention”) in relation to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. In its Application, South Africa also requested the Court to indicate provisional measures in order to “protect against further, severe and irreparable harm to the rights of the Palestinian people under the Genocide Convention” and “to ensure Israel’s compliance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention not to engage in genocide, and to prevent and to punish genocide” (see press release No. 2023/77)
Not sure about Western media, but I expect Al-Jazeera will have its own livestream. For the UN media platforms, you can use either their webTV stream or their Youtube livestream.
-----
This is the newest rolling thread for Palestine and Israel news. Previously (in reverse chronological order): December, November, October, and October 7th.
(con't)
[...] The flipside of investing genocide with so much political weight is the need to ensure control over the term’s use. This gives rise to another rule: genocide accusations must be rare and extraordinary due to the crime’s supremely evil character. There are enough blind alleys built into the legal definition of genocide to stymie accusations that go against the preferences of the United States and Israel. But merely disputing the merits is not enough; preserving a monopoly on how the term is used requires wayward accusers to be delegitimized entirely.
[...] These [think]pieces gesture to a future in which the powerful decide that if they can’t control the use of the word genocide, it shouldn’t be used at all. In such a future, perhaps we would find new ways of understanding and responding to oppression that avoid reliance on spurious hierarchies of suffering. But the road to this goal likely runs not through improved legal definitions for mass atrocity, but through actually existing struggles for justice. Palestinians and their allies who have taken up the demand to stop the genocide are not cheapening the term. On the contrary, they are democratizing its power, extricating genocide from a desiccated legalism that serves the status quo and injecting it with an explicitly anticolonial politics instead.
Palestinians, like other colonized peoples, have long narrated their own experiences of mass violence with reference to genocide. And this isn’t the first time such charges have gained widespread international recognition: the UN General Assembly recognized the 1982 Israeli-sponsored massacre of Palestinian refugees in Sabra and Shatila in Lebanon as an act of genocide. This history is part of the backdrop for South Africa’s legal intervention. These anticolonial forces are not uttering genocide as a code word to radio in air strikes. They are naming Western—especially U.S.—complicity with genocide. Instead of using the term to short-circuit political thinking, here the demand to end genocide is merely one component of a broader struggle for Palestinian freedom and self-determination. Nothing can be more urgent than stopping genocide, and nothing could be more inadequate.
----
Summary of the arguments on International Law Observer blog
----
(Just Security) International Courts as the Last Hope for Humanity - There is much value in countries bringing these kinds of cases to the ICJ, the principal judicial organ of the United Nations: not least because the Organization’s political bodies have too often utterly failed to find a resolution. Such solemn proceedings have the minimum value of forcing the international community to confront the problem of armed conflicts that it must confront, even if the only way left to do that is through the international judicial system established precisely to resolve international disputes, where judges must necessarily cut through the political noise and partisan bias to answer questions of law. The more important question is whether countries who bring these cases could do more with it, in terms of who they sue and the issues they raise.
----
(The Nation) What Does It Mean to Be Palestinian Now? - After October 7, this question has become a matter of grave importance, amid crackdowns on free speech and protest. Five writers reflect on the state of Palestinian life today.
----
The Court will deliver its Order today (PDF):
THE HAGUE, 24 January 2024. On Friday 26 January 2024, the International Court of Justice will deliver its Order on the Request for the indication of provisional measures submitted by South Africa in the case concerning Application of the
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel). A public sitting will take place at 1 p.m. at the Peace Palace in The Hague, during which Judge Joan E. Donoghue, the President of the Court, will read the Court’s Order.
It is recalled that on 29 December 2023, South Africa filed an Application instituting proceedings against Israel concerning alleged violations by Israel of its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (the “Genocide Convention”) in relation to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. In its Application, South Africa also requested the Court to indicate provisional measures in order to “protect against further, severe and irreparable harm to the rights of the Palestinian people under the Genocide Convention” and “to ensure Israel’s compliance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention not to engage in genocide, and to prevent and to punish genocide” (see press release No. 2023/77)
Not sure about Western media, but I expect Al-Jazeera will have its own livestream. For the UN media platforms, you can use either their webTV stream or their Youtube livestream.
-----
This is the newest rolling thread for Palestine and Israel news. Previously (in reverse chronological order): December, November, October, and October 7th.
- An Israeli point of view on the protestors blocking the aid trucks: (Jewish Press) Biden Complains After Protesters Succeed in Blocking Entry of ‘Humanitarian Aid’ Trucks into Gaza
Israelis, including the families of hostages being held in Gaza, and of soldiers fighting in the enclave, succeeded on Thursday in blocking all the trucks delivering humanitarian aid to Gaza at the Kerem Shalom crossing.
While the protests against the deliveries began right after Israel began allowing the trucks in, yesterday the protesters managed to block most of the trucks from getting in for the first time, and following that success more Israeli protesters joined the blockade today. Normally between 70 – 100 trucks cross over.
[...] The protests at Kerem Shalom are expected to be even bigger next week.
Rabbi Dov Lior, a senior rabbi in Israel, in response to an inquiry, stated that the trucks should be blocked – even on Shabbat.
From the article, I just want to flag this talking point that I've been hearing: Hamas has been stealing the aid coming in to Gaza for their own terrorists and then selling the rest to the other Gazans. This allows Hamas to continuously resupply and continue fighting against Israel.
My only question is: where's the army security then?
- From @ireallyhateyou: Once again, humanitarian aid is being blocked at Kerem Shalom crossing this morning.
Last night on the radio one of the organizers said that they're gonna be there everyday, and that even though he's religious, he's willing to break the Sabbath to come block the trucks.
QT: Just heard one of the organizers on the radio. Turns out they actually managed to block most aid from getting in yesterday (only 9 out 50 trucks entered), and today not even one truck entered! They plan to do this daily. There's is 0% chance that the authorities aren't in on it.
Earlier, related (in social dynamics), from them:
Yesterday the Israeli Ministry of Health sent a letter to all Israeli hospitals ordering them to be prepared to receive patients from Gaza and Lebanon. The letter explained that Israel is bound by international conventions to provide aid for humanitarian cases.
Letter was met with outrage. Not just by media and the general public, but even by doctors and the health institutes themselves. The common view is that we shouldn't allow any medical assistance or humanitarian aid to "our enemies" while Israeli hostages are still held in Gaza. [with screenshots]
The few who supported accepting "humanitarian cases" used it as a way to deny the claim of genocide.
Today the Minister of Health Uriel Buso instructed the ministry to cancel the order and said his clear policy is not to allow Gazans and Lebanese admitted to Israeli hospitals
-- Sad trombone update: One of the Israeli doctors who tweeted a few days ago that we shouldn't give Gazans any medical aid, was called a "leftist" today for wearing a "bring them home now" dog tag 😂😭😂
- ANYWAY, I'm sure this will help: (FP) Israel Releases Classified Documents Ahead of ICJ Ruling on Gaza Genocide Case
Israel is arguing that lawmakers’ public statements were overruled by executive decisions and other official war cabinet and military orders, including those listed in Thursday’s document reveal. Some of the declassified papers transcribe cabinet discussions, beginning in late October 2023, in which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered humanitarian aid to be sent to Gaza. They highlight incidents when the prime minister suggested having “external actors” set up field hospitals for Palestinians and mooring a hospital ship off the region’s coastline to treat victims. “The prime minister stressed time and again the need to increase significantly the humanitarian aid in the Gaza Strip,” a Nov. 14 cabinet meeting details.
None of the documents include orders from the first 10 days of the war, when Israel shut off electricity and water access into Gaza and blocked aid from entering the area.
- (Reuters) Hamas says it will abide by any ICJ ceasefire order if Israel reciprocates: Hamas said on Thursday that if the International Court of Justice issues a ruling calling for a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, the Palestinian movement will abide by it as long as Israel reciprocates.
Hamas will release all the Israeli hostages in Gaza if Israel releases all Palestinians prisoners, senior Hamas official Osama Hamdan said at a news conference in Beirut.
Good luck with being taken seriously though, maybe try some nuclear escalation language:
(AA) Israel minister renews call for striking Gaza with ‘nuclear bomb’
“Even in The Hague they know my position,” The Times of Israel newspaper quoted Eliyahu as saying during a tour in the West Bank city of Hebron, in reference to his previous call for using nuclear weapons in the Gaza Strip.
In November, Eliyahu said dropping a “nuclear bomb” on the Gaza Strip is “an option.”
The hardline minister, who has extremist rhetoric against Palestinians, also called for encouraging Gaza’s population to migrate from the enclave.
- (Semafor) Israel seeks to build ‘no man’s land’ inside Gaza: This security zone, people briefed by the Israel Defense Forces told Semafor, could be mined and include sentry towers along Gaza’s northern and eastern borders with Israel. Some inside the IDF describe a “kill zone,” with anyone approaching the fence from inside Gaza without authorization being at risk of being shot.
“If we want to prevent this [October 7] happening in the future, what we need is a barrier — sort of a no man’s land — a zone in which no one can enter from their side,” Yaakov Amidror, a former national security advisor to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, told Semafor. “I think this is the way that we should keep everyone out of reach from the fence.”
[...] “The Israelis are not giving up an inch [of territory] from their perspective,” said Jonathan Schanzer of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a Washington DC think tank that promotes Israel’s security, who recently discussed the demilitarized zone issue with IDF officials. “So that means that anything that is done, in addition to what existed before, will be at the cost of territory on the other side.”
Okay, well - Amir Rapaport in Israel Defense: On the professional side, it is once again evident that there is a significant shortage of skilled combat engineering forces in the Gaza Strip. No blame can be placed on the soldiers who lost their lives in the demolition mission; their proficiency in such activities is basic.
The combatants are part of Brigade 261, established by Aharon Haliva (currently the head of Military Intelligence) when he was the commander of the Officers' Training School. It is based on the instructors and cadets alongside the reserve battalion, whose fighters were hit. Most of their knowledge and experience in demolition tasks is accumulated "on the move."
In fact, the IDF has only one unit that specializes in explosive-related engineering activities – Yahalom (Special Missions Engineering Unit). If compared internationally, Yahalom's professional knowledge is not extraordinary, but the unit is considered one of the best in the world due to its extensive combat experience.
The problem is that most Yahalom forces, particularly those in the reserves, are currently engaged in the complex mission of detonating underground tunnels. Therefore, the task of demolishing the numerous buildings in the buffer zone must be carried out by less specialized forces in this particular mission.
[...] And here is an important conclusion: in every part of the Gaza Strip, there are still independent cells of Hamas operating autonomously, acting as guerrilla forces. This threat will persist over time. The IDF will continue to confront such cells as long as it maintains security control physically within the Gaza Strip. The danger may subside over time, but will never disappear entirely.
- Alon Sahar (from Breaking The Silence) writing for JPost, Israeli control over Gaza would be deadly for Israelis and Palestinians: As a filmmaker and anti-occupation activist, I’ve spent the last decade of my career trying to speak to the moral sensitivities of Israelis by demonstrating the deep injustices that Palestinians have to endure every day. I hoped that by evoking empathy, my compatriots would come to see that perpetual occupation – leading to untold human suffering – is not the way.
Now, in the new and horrifying post-October 7 reality, it seems that there is no longer room for empathy in Israeli society. That being the case, it is now time to expose the flip side of the coin: the terrible price we as Israelis pay to accommodate the policy of ruling over other people – because this is not just about the Palestinians; it is about us, too.
As a former soldier-occupier, my comrades and I felt the full weight of that price in the Gaza Strip. We have an obligation to speak out as calls for resettlement of Gaza mount in Israel. Those who refuse to see the humanity of Palestinians at the very least owe it to us, the soldiers who protected their settlements, to hear what we were made to sacrifice before dragging us back there.
[...] At first, they’ll tell us it’s “just a security zone,” and then, a settler outpost will pop up there. It’ll probably be named after one of the decimated kibbutz communities near the Gaza border. A while later, we’ll discover that the military is providing security for it and that it already has satellite outposts around it.
We cannot allow ourselves to skirt around the question of what happens after the war. We have to think about our vision for a free, secure, and sustainable life here for both Palestinians and Israelis. The Israeli public has let messianic ideas corrupt this place for too long, under the pretense that settlements are vital for security. We mustn’t buy it.
The settlements did not protect Israel – we as soldiers protected the settlements, always at the Palestinians’ expense. The settlers’ fantasy was our nightmare. No more.
posted by cendawanita at 3:09 AM on January 26 [22 favorites]
Israelis, including the families of hostages being held in Gaza, and of soldiers fighting in the enclave, succeeded on Thursday in blocking all the trucks delivering humanitarian aid to Gaza at the Kerem Shalom crossing.
While the protests against the deliveries began right after Israel began allowing the trucks in, yesterday the protesters managed to block most of the trucks from getting in for the first time, and following that success more Israeli protesters joined the blockade today. Normally between 70 – 100 trucks cross over.
[...] The protests at Kerem Shalom are expected to be even bigger next week.
Rabbi Dov Lior, a senior rabbi in Israel, in response to an inquiry, stated that the trucks should be blocked – even on Shabbat.
From the article, I just want to flag this talking point that I've been hearing: Hamas has been stealing the aid coming in to Gaza for their own terrorists and then selling the rest to the other Gazans. This allows Hamas to continuously resupply and continue fighting against Israel.
My only question is: where's the army security then?
- From @ireallyhateyou: Once again, humanitarian aid is being blocked at Kerem Shalom crossing this morning.
Last night on the radio one of the organizers said that they're gonna be there everyday, and that even though he's religious, he's willing to break the Sabbath to come block the trucks.
QT: Just heard one of the organizers on the radio. Turns out they actually managed to block most aid from getting in yesterday (only 9 out 50 trucks entered), and today not even one truck entered! They plan to do this daily. There's is 0% chance that the authorities aren't in on it.
Earlier, related (in social dynamics), from them:
Yesterday the Israeli Ministry of Health sent a letter to all Israeli hospitals ordering them to be prepared to receive patients from Gaza and Lebanon. The letter explained that Israel is bound by international conventions to provide aid for humanitarian cases.
Letter was met with outrage. Not just by media and the general public, but even by doctors and the health institutes themselves. The common view is that we shouldn't allow any medical assistance or humanitarian aid to "our enemies" while Israeli hostages are still held in Gaza. [with screenshots]
The few who supported accepting "humanitarian cases" used it as a way to deny the claim of genocide.
Today the Minister of Health Uriel Buso instructed the ministry to cancel the order and said his clear policy is not to allow Gazans and Lebanese admitted to Israeli hospitals
-- Sad trombone update: One of the Israeli doctors who tweeted a few days ago that we shouldn't give Gazans any medical aid, was called a "leftist" today for wearing a "bring them home now" dog tag 😂😭😂
- ANYWAY, I'm sure this will help: (FP) Israel Releases Classified Documents Ahead of ICJ Ruling on Gaza Genocide Case
Israel is arguing that lawmakers’ public statements were overruled by executive decisions and other official war cabinet and military orders, including those listed in Thursday’s document reveal. Some of the declassified papers transcribe cabinet discussions, beginning in late October 2023, in which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered humanitarian aid to be sent to Gaza. They highlight incidents when the prime minister suggested having “external actors” set up field hospitals for Palestinians and mooring a hospital ship off the region’s coastline to treat victims. “The prime minister stressed time and again the need to increase significantly the humanitarian aid in the Gaza Strip,” a Nov. 14 cabinet meeting details.
None of the documents include orders from the first 10 days of the war, when Israel shut off electricity and water access into Gaza and blocked aid from entering the area.
- (Reuters) Hamas says it will abide by any ICJ ceasefire order if Israel reciprocates: Hamas said on Thursday that if the International Court of Justice issues a ruling calling for a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, the Palestinian movement will abide by it as long as Israel reciprocates.
Hamas will release all the Israeli hostages in Gaza if Israel releases all Palestinians prisoners, senior Hamas official Osama Hamdan said at a news conference in Beirut.
Good luck with being taken seriously though, maybe try some nuclear escalation language:
(AA) Israel minister renews call for striking Gaza with ‘nuclear bomb’
“Even in The Hague they know my position,” The Times of Israel newspaper quoted Eliyahu as saying during a tour in the West Bank city of Hebron, in reference to his previous call for using nuclear weapons in the Gaza Strip.
In November, Eliyahu said dropping a “nuclear bomb” on the Gaza Strip is “an option.”
The hardline minister, who has extremist rhetoric against Palestinians, also called for encouraging Gaza’s population to migrate from the enclave.
- (Semafor) Israel seeks to build ‘no man’s land’ inside Gaza: This security zone, people briefed by the Israel Defense Forces told Semafor, could be mined and include sentry towers along Gaza’s northern and eastern borders with Israel. Some inside the IDF describe a “kill zone,” with anyone approaching the fence from inside Gaza without authorization being at risk of being shot.
“If we want to prevent this [October 7] happening in the future, what we need is a barrier — sort of a no man’s land — a zone in which no one can enter from their side,” Yaakov Amidror, a former national security advisor to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, told Semafor. “I think this is the way that we should keep everyone out of reach from the fence.”
[...] “The Israelis are not giving up an inch [of territory] from their perspective,” said Jonathan Schanzer of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a Washington DC think tank that promotes Israel’s security, who recently discussed the demilitarized zone issue with IDF officials. “So that means that anything that is done, in addition to what existed before, will be at the cost of territory on the other side.”
Okay, well - Amir Rapaport in Israel Defense: On the professional side, it is once again evident that there is a significant shortage of skilled combat engineering forces in the Gaza Strip. No blame can be placed on the soldiers who lost their lives in the demolition mission; their proficiency in such activities is basic.
The combatants are part of Brigade 261, established by Aharon Haliva (currently the head of Military Intelligence) when he was the commander of the Officers' Training School. It is based on the instructors and cadets alongside the reserve battalion, whose fighters were hit. Most of their knowledge and experience in demolition tasks is accumulated "on the move."
In fact, the IDF has only one unit that specializes in explosive-related engineering activities – Yahalom (Special Missions Engineering Unit). If compared internationally, Yahalom's professional knowledge is not extraordinary, but the unit is considered one of the best in the world due to its extensive combat experience.
The problem is that most Yahalom forces, particularly those in the reserves, are currently engaged in the complex mission of detonating underground tunnels. Therefore, the task of demolishing the numerous buildings in the buffer zone must be carried out by less specialized forces in this particular mission.
[...] And here is an important conclusion: in every part of the Gaza Strip, there are still independent cells of Hamas operating autonomously, acting as guerrilla forces. This threat will persist over time. The IDF will continue to confront such cells as long as it maintains security control physically within the Gaza Strip. The danger may subside over time, but will never disappear entirely.
- Alon Sahar (from Breaking The Silence) writing for JPost, Israeli control over Gaza would be deadly for Israelis and Palestinians: As a filmmaker and anti-occupation activist, I’ve spent the last decade of my career trying to speak to the moral sensitivities of Israelis by demonstrating the deep injustices that Palestinians have to endure every day. I hoped that by evoking empathy, my compatriots would come to see that perpetual occupation – leading to untold human suffering – is not the way.
Now, in the new and horrifying post-October 7 reality, it seems that there is no longer room for empathy in Israeli society. That being the case, it is now time to expose the flip side of the coin: the terrible price we as Israelis pay to accommodate the policy of ruling over other people – because this is not just about the Palestinians; it is about us, too.
As a former soldier-occupier, my comrades and I felt the full weight of that price in the Gaza Strip. We have an obligation to speak out as calls for resettlement of Gaza mount in Israel. Those who refuse to see the humanity of Palestinians at the very least owe it to us, the soldiers who protected their settlements, to hear what we were made to sacrifice before dragging us back there.
[...] At first, they’ll tell us it’s “just a security zone,” and then, a settler outpost will pop up there. It’ll probably be named after one of the decimated kibbutz communities near the Gaza border. A while later, we’ll discover that the military is providing security for it and that it already has satellite outposts around it.
We cannot allow ourselves to skirt around the question of what happens after the war. We have to think about our vision for a free, secure, and sustainable life here for both Palestinians and Israelis. The Israeli public has let messianic ideas corrupt this place for too long, under the pretense that settlements are vital for security. We mustn’t buy it.
The settlements did not protect Israel – we as soldiers protected the settlements, always at the Palestinians’ expense. The settlers’ fantasy was our nightmare. No more.
posted by cendawanita at 3:09 AM on January 26 [22 favorites]
Thank you for putting this together. Do we have any idea what time the ruling is expected: or just sometime today?
posted by corb at 3:46 AM on January 26
posted by corb at 3:46 AM on January 26
In about 10 minutes
posted by cendawanita at 3:53 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 3:53 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
(didn't mean to sound so terse! Am otw home)
posted by cendawanita at 3:58 AM on January 26 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 3:58 AM on January 26 [1 favorite]
SOUTH AFRICA CLEARED THE PLAUSIBILITY THRESHOLD
posted by cendawanita at 4:14 AM on January 26 [16 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 4:14 AM on January 26 [16 favorites]
From the BBC link:
A verdict on South Africa's allegation of genocide is not expected for years…
What’s the actual point of this, then, other than to make sure there’s a footnote in future history books? Today’s ruling changes nothing in respect to the ongoing violence.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:26 AM on January 26 [1 favorite]
A verdict on South Africa's allegation of genocide is not expected for years…
What’s the actual point of this, then, other than to make sure there’s a footnote in future history books? Today’s ruling changes nothing in respect to the ongoing violence.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:26 AM on January 26 [1 favorite]
Oh we're definitely getting some provisional measures.
posted by cendawanita at 4:26 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 4:26 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
Today’s ruling changes nothing in respect to the ongoing violence.
Depends on what the provisional measures are, whether in full of what SA is asking for or something else. Then this will be binding while the full case proceeds. This can be left to the UN or its member states. Anyway, this also means I know what every single State Dept equivalent in every country now will spend their weekend.
posted by cendawanita at 4:28 AM on January 26 [5 favorites]
Depends on what the provisional measures are, whether in full of what SA is asking for or something else. Then this will be binding while the full case proceeds. This can be left to the UN or its member states. Anyway, this also means I know what every single State Dept equivalent in every country now will spend their weekend.
posted by cendawanita at 4:28 AM on January 26 [5 favorites]
- Palestinian group is held to constitute a distinct ethnic group (necessary for genocide)
- right of Palestinians to be protected from genocide and the right of South Africa
-link between plausible rights and provisional measures
-by very nature some of the provisional measures, some are aimed at preserving right of palestinians to be protected from genocide...therefore a link exists between the rights...which have been deemed to be plausible... and at least some of the provisional measures requested
posted by corb at 4:30 AM on January 26 [11 favorites]
- right of Palestinians to be protected from genocide and the right of South Africa
-link between plausible rights and provisional measures
-by very nature some of the provisional measures, some are aimed at preserving right of palestinians to be protected from genocide...therefore a link exists between the rights...which have been deemed to be plausible... and at least some of the provisional measures requested
posted by corb at 4:30 AM on January 26 [11 favorites]
Oh we're definitely getting some provisional measures.
Yes, the whole tone so far certainly sounds like they plan to grant the provisional measures.
posted by bcd at 4:30 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
Yes, the whole tone so far certainly sounds like they plan to grant the provisional measures.
posted by bcd at 4:30 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
Developing story but HuffPo is already posting their (to-be-updated) article thus: UN Court Acknowledges Genocide Risk In Gaza, Dealing Historic Blow To Israel And U.S.
posted by cendawanita at 4:36 AM on January 26 [7 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 4:36 AM on January 26 [7 favorites]
-Condition of urgency is met when acts can occur at any moment before court makes final decision.
- prejudice to these rights is capable of causing irreparable harm
- court finds the measures need not be identical to those requested
- Israel must:
take all measures to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Art 2
killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members, deliberately creating conditions to create its physical destruction
posted by corb at 4:38 AM on January 26 [8 favorites]
- prejudice to these rights is capable of causing irreparable harm
- court finds the measures need not be identical to those requested
- Israel must:
take all measures to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Art 2
killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members, deliberately creating conditions to create its physical destruction
posted by corb at 4:38 AM on January 26 [8 favorites]
- Israel must ensure its military forces do not commit the aforementioned acts
- must punish the incitement
- must address the (need) for urgent conditions of life
-must take measures to prevent destruction of evidence
Israel must submit report to the court on all measures within one month from date of order.
SA will be able to provide comments on report.
Order creates binding international legal obligations.
posted by corb at 4:41 AM on January 26 [7 favorites]
- must punish the incitement
- must address the (need) for urgent conditions of life
-must take measures to prevent destruction of evidence
Israel must submit report to the court on all measures within one month from date of order.
SA will be able to provide comments on report.
Order creates binding international legal obligations.
posted by corb at 4:41 AM on January 26 [7 favorites]
Court did state that they would like Hamas to release hostages, but it's not in the order.
Actual provisional measures with votes:
1. (15-2 vote) State of Israel shall, take all measures within power to prevent all acts within Article 2, including stopping conditions which prevent birth
2. (15-2 vote) State of Israel shall ensure military does not commit any acts described above.
3. (16-1 vote) State of Israel take all measures to punish the public incitement to create genocide
4. (16-1 vote) State of Israel must take immediate measures for provision of basic services and humanitarian assistance to Gaza
5. (15-2 vote) State of Israel shall take effective measures to ensure preservation of evidence within Articles 2 and 3 against Palestinian group in Gaza Strip
6. (15-2 vote) State of Israel shall submit report to Court on all measures taken within one month.
posted by corb at 4:47 AM on January 26 [11 favorites]
Actual provisional measures with votes:
1. (15-2 vote) State of Israel shall, take all measures within power to prevent all acts within Article 2, including stopping conditions which prevent birth
2. (15-2 vote) State of Israel shall ensure military does not commit any acts described above.
3. (16-1 vote) State of Israel take all measures to punish the public incitement to create genocide
4. (16-1 vote) State of Israel must take immediate measures for provision of basic services and humanitarian assistance to Gaza
5. (15-2 vote) State of Israel shall take effective measures to ensure preservation of evidence within Articles 2 and 3 against Palestinian group in Gaza Strip
6. (15-2 vote) State of Israel shall submit report to Court on all measures taken within one month.
posted by corb at 4:47 AM on January 26 [11 favorites]
Sadly, I believe the provisions are loose enough that Israel will just announce, "Oh sure, we are doing that. We are the moral army, after all." Better than nothing, but I am disappointed.
posted by bcd at 4:47 AM on January 26 [7 favorites]
posted by bcd at 4:47 AM on January 26 [7 favorites]
And that's it for the sitting. Still no official document link but I'll post it if no one else does so first.
posted by bcd at 4:52 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
posted by bcd at 4:52 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
bcd (and everyone): Mouin Rabbani had a good thread on Twitter yesterday about the ICJ decision, and his thesis is that the specific measures ordered are fairly unimportant. (We all know Israel is likely to ignore them anyway.) By enacting ANY provisional measures, the ICJ indicates that the risk of genocide is real, which creates a positive obligation for every other member state to prevent th as t from happening (including by adjusting policies towards Israel).
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:13 AM on January 26 [17 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:13 AM on January 26 [17 favorites]
From the HuffPo article:
The decision by the chief legal organ of the United Nations to sustain the case represents a major escalation in international pressure for a change in course by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his chief foreign backer, President Joe Biden.
(...) Friday’s ruling showed the judges found at least part of South Africa’s claim of a possible or already ongoing genocide plausible.
The court ordered Israel to abide by six measures. A significant majority of the 17 judges supported imposing each measure, including in two instances Israel’s ad-hoc representative on the court, Aharon Barak.
The court directed Israel to take steps to prevent acts of genocide, to prevent its military from committing such acts, and to take measures to prevent the incitement of genocide in Gaza. Additionally, it ordered Israel to launch “immediate and effective measures” to boost humanitarian aid for Gaza, protect evidence of possible international law violations and give the court a report on its compliance with the orders within one month.
(...) “The court is accurately aware of the human tragedy unfolding in the region,” Donoghue said, also acknowledging Israeli hostages held by Hamas and saying the court wants to see their “immediate, unconditional release.”
The court will likely take years to reach a final ruling on the charges, given the high degree of proof required including serious evidence of intent.
Still, their decision not to dismiss the case will keep alive the question of whether the policy represents genocide, the most serious charge a government can face and one that is particularly jarring for Israel, a Jewish state founded in the shadow of the Holocaust and deeply invested in accountability for that genocide.
“South Africa has really won and Israel is associated with genocide as a matter of law,” said Ahmed Abofoul, an international lawyer and advocacy officer for the Palestinian human rights group Al-Haq, before the court’s ruling.
(...) Abofoul noted that the court’s decision has big ramifications for other states, chiefly the U.S., by activating their obligation to stop genocide from occurring under international and domestic laws.
A former senior Israeli government official told HuffPost Israel was likely to try to smear the court and continue on its current path in Gaza.
Netanyahu “will leverage [the ruling] to claim that ‘the world is a hypocrite, anti-Semitic and totally untrustworthy,’” said the former Israeli official, who requested anonymity given the sensitivity of the issue. Israel “will try to send a message of ‘business as usual’ in terms of continuing the war,” they continued, saying they felt the country was unlikely to tolerate even a “lukewarm” decision seeking only greater humanitarian aid for Gaza.
Adil Haque, a Rutgers University professor, said earlier that there’s little chance Israel will immediately abide by the court’s ruling.
“The court’s orders are legally binding, and it could punish noncompliance in a future proceeding,” Haque told HuffPost. “But if Israel stops engaging with the court then only the U.N. Security Council can impose sanctions (an arms embargo, trade restrictions, etc).”
If the Security Council does take up the matter, that would pose an added headache for the U.S., a permanent member of the body that can veto its actions and has often done so on behalf of Israel. U.S. attempts to shield Israel’s Gaza policy at the Council have drawn international scorn as most global governments rally around calls for a ceasefire in the war that began following a Hamas attack on Oct. 7, and America’s weakened influence in the international community has hurt attempts to build agreement on matters like supporting Ukraine against Russia, HuffPost has found.
The U.S. has also tried to stymie another attempt to investigate whether international law has been broken by any parties in the Israel-Hamas war, by seeking to deter Switzerland from accepting a Palestinian request for a global conference on violations of the Geneva Conventions, widely agreed-upon standards for warfare to which Israel and the U.S. are parties, HuffPost revealed last month.
posted by cendawanita at 5:13 AM on January 26 [5 favorites]
The decision by the chief legal organ of the United Nations to sustain the case represents a major escalation in international pressure for a change in course by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his chief foreign backer, President Joe Biden.
(...) Friday’s ruling showed the judges found at least part of South Africa’s claim of a possible or already ongoing genocide plausible.
The court ordered Israel to abide by six measures. A significant majority of the 17 judges supported imposing each measure, including in two instances Israel’s ad-hoc representative on the court, Aharon Barak.
The court directed Israel to take steps to prevent acts of genocide, to prevent its military from committing such acts, and to take measures to prevent the incitement of genocide in Gaza. Additionally, it ordered Israel to launch “immediate and effective measures” to boost humanitarian aid for Gaza, protect evidence of possible international law violations and give the court a report on its compliance with the orders within one month.
(...) “The court is accurately aware of the human tragedy unfolding in the region,” Donoghue said, also acknowledging Israeli hostages held by Hamas and saying the court wants to see their “immediate, unconditional release.”
The court will likely take years to reach a final ruling on the charges, given the high degree of proof required including serious evidence of intent.
Still, their decision not to dismiss the case will keep alive the question of whether the policy represents genocide, the most serious charge a government can face and one that is particularly jarring for Israel, a Jewish state founded in the shadow of the Holocaust and deeply invested in accountability for that genocide.
“South Africa has really won and Israel is associated with genocide as a matter of law,” said Ahmed Abofoul, an international lawyer and advocacy officer for the Palestinian human rights group Al-Haq, before the court’s ruling.
(...) Abofoul noted that the court’s decision has big ramifications for other states, chiefly the U.S., by activating their obligation to stop genocide from occurring under international and domestic laws.
A former senior Israeli government official told HuffPost Israel was likely to try to smear the court and continue on its current path in Gaza.
Netanyahu “will leverage [the ruling] to claim that ‘the world is a hypocrite, anti-Semitic and totally untrustworthy,’” said the former Israeli official, who requested anonymity given the sensitivity of the issue. Israel “will try to send a message of ‘business as usual’ in terms of continuing the war,” they continued, saying they felt the country was unlikely to tolerate even a “lukewarm” decision seeking only greater humanitarian aid for Gaza.
Adil Haque, a Rutgers University professor, said earlier that there’s little chance Israel will immediately abide by the court’s ruling.
“The court’s orders are legally binding, and it could punish noncompliance in a future proceeding,” Haque told HuffPost. “But if Israel stops engaging with the court then only the U.N. Security Council can impose sanctions (an arms embargo, trade restrictions, etc).”
If the Security Council does take up the matter, that would pose an added headache for the U.S., a permanent member of the body that can veto its actions and has often done so on behalf of Israel. U.S. attempts to shield Israel’s Gaza policy at the Council have drawn international scorn as most global governments rally around calls for a ceasefire in the war that began following a Hamas attack on Oct. 7, and America’s weakened influence in the international community has hurt attempts to build agreement on matters like supporting Ukraine against Russia, HuffPost has found.
The U.S. has also tried to stymie another attempt to investigate whether international law has been broken by any parties in the Israel-Hamas war, by seeking to deter Switzerland from accepting a Palestinian request for a global conference on violations of the Geneva Conventions, widely agreed-upon standards for warfare to which Israel and the U.S. are parties, HuffPost revealed last month.
posted by cendawanita at 5:13 AM on January 26 [5 favorites]
Also important: the ICJ rulings were nearly unanimous. This wasn't a close call.
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:15 AM on January 26 [13 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:15 AM on January 26 [13 favorites]
The former head of the Jerusalem Post comes in with a tweet that presages how Israel is going to spin this.
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:22 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:22 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
(the promo cycle for Captain America 4 is going to be so awkward.)
posted by cendawanita at 5:29 AM on January 26 [6 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 5:29 AM on January 26 [6 favorites]
Nostalgia thread already... From yesterday:
Martin Konečný: 🧵How will Western gov'ts respond to ICJ's expected order for "provisional measures" on Gaza tomorrow?
Let's look at precedents.
In the Myanmar, Ukraine & Syria cases at ICJ, Western states stressed that ICJ provisional measures are binding and must be fully implemented.
posted by cendawanita at 5:50 AM on January 26 [12 favorites]
Martin Konečný: 🧵How will Western gov'ts respond to ICJ's expected order for "provisional measures" on Gaza tomorrow?
Let's look at precedents.
In the Myanmar, Ukraine & Syria cases at ICJ, Western states stressed that ICJ provisional measures are binding and must be fully implemented.
posted by cendawanita at 5:50 AM on January 26 [12 favorites]
It's not over yet for the US business hours btw:
Naks Bilal: This case [Defense for Children International-Palestine et al v Biden; first hearing is today] is also set to be heard later today wherein Biden, Austin and Blinken stand accused of failing to prevent and complicity in Israel’s genocide.
Counsel, including @AhmedAbofoul will almost certainly rely on today’s judgement, and a favourable ruling will be significant.
posted by cendawanita at 6:59 AM on January 26 [4 favorites]
Naks Bilal: This case [Defense for Children International-Palestine et al v Biden; first hearing is today] is also set to be heard later today wherein Biden, Austin and Blinken stand accused of failing to prevent and complicity in Israel’s genocide.
Counsel, including @AhmedAbofoul will almost certainly rely on today’s judgement, and a favourable ruling will be significant.
posted by cendawanita at 6:59 AM on January 26 [4 favorites]
As I was saying on a leftish Jewish sub, this is mostly a win for the State of Israel. They got told they need to do certain things to prevent risk of genocide and of course, they need to tamp down on Ben Gvir, Smotrich, Herzog, etc, but if anything, State of Israel would love to give these people an official reason to shut up. Hamas got told to release hostages (not binding).
This puts greater pressure on Israel and Hamas to workout a ceasefire deal for the rest of the hostages. Hamas knows the PR cavalry is not coming, and so they may resign themselves with some sort of deal to save their skins, at least temporarily. This coincides with the Israeli public's cooling on the war and a desire to prioritize getting hostages back. So, the two-month deal might happen soon, I hope?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:11 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
This puts greater pressure on Israel and Hamas to workout a ceasefire deal for the rest of the hostages. Hamas knows the PR cavalry is not coming, and so they may resign themselves with some sort of deal to save their skins, at least temporarily. This coincides with the Israeli public's cooling on the war and a desire to prioritize getting hostages back. So, the two-month deal might happen soon, I hope?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:11 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
Coincidentally I was just collating for fedi some takes from legal scholars, and Palestinians (or both, or none) and their position seems to be the exact opposite. Post 1; Post 2. The focus isn't on ceasefire. The precedence here is "genocide".
But the most pertinent is Craig Murray, Heidi Williams and Francis Boyle. I'll copy later here.
posted by cendawanita at 8:30 AM on January 26 [5 favorites]
But the most pertinent is Craig Murray, Heidi Williams and Francis Boyle. I'll copy later here.
posted by cendawanita at 8:30 AM on January 26 [5 favorites]
Here we go.
posted by cendawanita at 8:31 AM on January 26 [6 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:31 AM on January 26 [6 favorites]
Reminder that conflating judgement on the state of Israel or the Israeli government with Jews is antisemitism.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:38 AM on January 26 [23 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:38 AM on January 26 [23 favorites]
Judges Bhandari and Sebuntinde ask why the Court did not either order Hamas to release all hostages or, as Judge Sebutinde notes, order South Africa to use all means available to it as a country with a friendly relationship with Hamas to secure their release.
Now, Hamas is not a party to these proceedings, so I agree with Judge Sebutinde that it might not have had the jurisdiction to order Hamas to do anything. But a grant of provisional remedies that puts no burden on anyone to secure the release of the hostages seems like a missed opportunity to eliminate, at least in part, Israel's casus belli.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:42 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
Now, Hamas is not a party to these proceedings, so I agree with Judge Sebutinde that it might not have had the jurisdiction to order Hamas to do anything. But a grant of provisional remedies that puts no burden on anyone to secure the release of the hostages seems like a missed opportunity to eliminate, at least in part, Israel's casus belli.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:42 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
Ah, yes, as usual, the idea that Israel is somehow not an actor in this. They can only react - and who could blame them for reacting? They don't have any choice but to commit to genocidal violence, starvation, and denial of medical supplies. No choice there!
posted by sagc at 8:47 AM on January 26 [13 favorites]
posted by sagc at 8:47 AM on January 26 [13 favorites]
Perhaps we cool this down as it probably won't be a productive conversation here? I think we can talk about critiques of a very specific geopolitical entity—the State of Israel—without being antisemitic. And I think we can talk about the antisemitism that is sometimes endemic to conversations concern said geopolitical entity. I know I had an unpleasant one the other day in a socialist online forum.
Anyway, lets focus on the news and its ramifications.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:49 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
Anyway, lets focus on the news and its ramifications.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:49 AM on January 26 [3 favorites]
They should tell Hamas to release the hostages and stop firing rockets into Israel. That would stop the war.
Hamas is a gang of terrorist criminals. You don't ask or tell a gang of criminals to do things. What you do with terrorist criminals is ARREST THEM. Put them on trial. Remind me again, who has the functioning government and physical control of Greater Israel, from the river to the sea?
posted by mikelieman at 8:51 AM on January 26 [8 favorites]
Hamas is a gang of terrorist criminals. You don't ask or tell a gang of criminals to do things. What you do with terrorist criminals is ARREST THEM. Put them on trial. Remind me again, who has the functioning government and physical control of Greater Israel, from the river to the sea?
posted by mikelieman at 8:51 AM on January 26 [8 favorites]
ph00dz, I think you added something to your second-most-recent comment. Do you sincerely believe that there's no motivation behind this case than anti-Zionism? That it's a stalking horse for the "destruction of the Israeli state and its inhabitants"? That seems to be conspiratorial thinking, at best.
posted by sagc at 8:51 AM on January 26 [4 favorites]
posted by sagc at 8:51 AM on January 26 [4 favorites]
No one has pointed out any actual antisemitism in the decision, just that Jews are being targeted by it with zero proof. Which is because it's untrue, and as I said, conflating Jews and Israel is considered antisemitism by the site rules.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:53 AM on January 26 [9 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:53 AM on January 26 [9 favorites]
It's pretty clear that if the world had their vote, there wouldn't be any more Jews.
no, that's not clear; that's antisemitic propaganda. for instance, because it logically follows from that claim that Jews have an inherently oppositional relationship to "the world" and an inherent interest in opposition to global democracy, both of which are insane conclusions, so anything that entails them is also insane. of course, it is also the sort of thing one might tell generations of children in order to ensure continued support of a specific political project, distinct from but often (and again, antisemitically) conflated with Jewish culture, nationhood, etc.
is your point that you think that it's somehow definitionally impossible for Israel to commit genocide or similar crimes, or, if not, then any action by the Israeli state is justified, even if it is a crime against humanity, or would be considered one if not perpetrated by Israel?
posted by busted_crayons at 8:53 AM on January 26 [22 favorites]
no, that's not clear; that's antisemitic propaganda. for instance, because it logically follows from that claim that Jews have an inherently oppositional relationship to "the world" and an inherent interest in opposition to global democracy, both of which are insane conclusions, so anything that entails them is also insane. of course, it is also the sort of thing one might tell generations of children in order to ensure continued support of a specific political project, distinct from but often (and again, antisemitically) conflated with Jewish culture, nationhood, etc.
is your point that you think that it's somehow definitionally impossible for Israel to commit genocide or similar crimes, or, if not, then any action by the Israeli state is justified, even if it is a crime against humanity, or would be considered one if not perpetrated by Israel?
posted by busted_crayons at 8:53 AM on January 26 [22 favorites]
It's in general impossible to move anybody an inch in any one of these threads or arguments out in the real world. But the question I put to my Dad (a good leftist who gets too many of his positions from MSNBC) is: if the image Israel wants (or wanted) to project in the world is that it's the sole "Western" democracy in the Middle East, the adult in the room, the responsible member of the world community, as against the Palestinians (and the Arab world writ large) it has had a hand in pillorying as uncivilized, as rogue states, as unfit for self-rule, then why aren't we or the UN or anyone allowed to ask Israel to act like it?
If Israel is what it and you say it is, why is it that Israel is never the adult in the room, never the respecter of international law, never going to abide by this ICJ decision, never going to react as that supposedly civilized, responsible state.
These people who pin everything on Hamas (conflating, of course, collective punishment of the entire Palestinian people with a legitimate response to whatever Hamas has done)—isn't Hamas, in their characterization, doing exactly what Israel has pretended it is before the world, a rogue terrorist organization, would do? And if that's so, and if Israel is the adult in the room, how in the world does that justify Israel disregarding all the norms and laws and organizations it holds itself out as respecting?
How do you hold this cognitive dissonance in your heads?
Israel cannot claim to be the adult while acting like the child. And if you want to make the claim that the events of October 7 justify the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinians in Gaza (and murder and additional settlement in the West Bank) or that the continued existence of Israelis as hostages in Gaza justify the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza, well, that's a position contrary to every little piece of international law that got settled at Nuremburg, but if that's your position, then own it. Your position is that Israel is a rogue nation meting out retribution and punishment condemned by every tenet of natural and international law and you think that's a good thing.
posted by TheProfessor at 8:59 AM on January 26 [30 favorites]
If Israel is what it and you say it is, why is it that Israel is never the adult in the room, never the respecter of international law, never going to abide by this ICJ decision, never going to react as that supposedly civilized, responsible state.
These people who pin everything on Hamas (conflating, of course, collective punishment of the entire Palestinian people with a legitimate response to whatever Hamas has done)—isn't Hamas, in their characterization, doing exactly what Israel has pretended it is before the world, a rogue terrorist organization, would do? And if that's so, and if Israel is the adult in the room, how in the world does that justify Israel disregarding all the norms and laws and organizations it holds itself out as respecting?
How do you hold this cognitive dissonance in your heads?
Israel cannot claim to be the adult while acting like the child. And if you want to make the claim that the events of October 7 justify the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinians in Gaza (and murder and additional settlement in the West Bank) or that the continued existence of Israelis as hostages in Gaza justify the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza, well, that's a position contrary to every little piece of international law that got settled at Nuremburg, but if that's your position, then own it. Your position is that Israel is a rogue nation meting out retribution and punishment condemned by every tenet of natural and international law and you think that's a good thing.
posted by TheProfessor at 8:59 AM on January 26 [30 favorites]
This coincides with the Israeli public's cooling on the war and a desire to prioritize getting hostages back
I don't know if that's my description with how even "Bring Them Back" slogans are considered unpatriotic now (per you can see in the videos of protesters against the aid trucks entering Gaza), and some of the polling data, but the polls were a month old, so who knows. Those getting verbal and police abuse were from the last weeks though.
Anyway, as I promised--
Sam Hosseini
Francis Boyle on the ICJ Orders “This is a massive, overwhelming legal victory for the Republic of South Africa against Israel on behalf of the Palestinians. The UN General Assembly now can suspend Israel from participation in its activities as it did for South Africa and Yugoslavia. It can admit Palestine as a full member. And -- especially since the International Criminal Court has been a farce -- it can establish a tribunal to prosecute the highest level officials of the Israeli government, both civilian and military.”
When this case was first announced, Francis Boyle gave a couple of interviews (iirc his Democracy Now one linked here). He's a human rights lawyer who served as counsel for Bosnia and Herzegovina. This one in AA gives more elaboration to the above (and he fully anticipated that South Africa will win) - he anticipates consequences will include Israel becoming a pariah state. (with apologies to people from the caste)
Craig Murray: A partial victory at the Hague but a real one. The outline of facts was damning and this court is obviously minded to find genocide when the substantive case comes forward.
No direct order to ceasefire but Israel explicitly instructed to obey the Genocide Convention on not killing Palestinians or creating impossible conditions for them to live, against a clear background that the court does not believe their assurances to date.
Heidi Matthews (why did I say Williams...): The ICJ's written order and separate opinions will be released shortly. But my first reaction is that this is a big win for Palestinian advocates. Some will be disappointed that the Court stopped short of ordering a ceasefire. But... 🧵
... the fact that the Court ordered the measures it DID, including directing Israel not to commit or incite genocide, indicates it has concluded that it is (a) plausible for Palestinians in Gaza to claim protection from genocide, and (b) that the need for protection is urgent.
I think we can infer from this that *at a minimum* there is a serious risk that Israel will commit genocide. This is important because it puts *all states* on formal notice of the serious risk of genocide, which triggers states’ duty to take concrete steps to prevent genocide. Among other things, this means that in order for states to fulfill their international obligations under the Genocide Convention they must *do something*. For e.g., states exporting arms or military technology to Israel must stop.
The short story: this order on provisional measures will have an important and immediate impact on how states are required to act under international law. It will also radically shift the global conversation about what is happening in Gaza.
Another related point: I need to read the separate opinions, but my intuition is that it's a massive win that Israeli ad hoc judge Barak sided with the majority in ordering many of the provisional measures. He may have judged his own legacy as more important than Netanyahu's.
Note re my observation about whether states must stop exporting arms to Israel on the basis of these provisional measures. The details of domestic legislation will be important here. At a minimum, states should conduct thorough and transparent assessments of whether their arms exports will or could be used by Israel to commit international crimes, including genocide. Certainly the fact that states are now on formal notice that there is a serious risk of genocide should mean that preventing genocide in these circumstances means halting arms exports.
The provisional measure on reporting also has an interesting hook: South Africa MUST review it. Non-compliance in both reporting as well as substance per the order means sanctions can follow. The other hook (for me) is the specific note on acts preventing childbirth, considering the amount of destruction to healthcare facilities and hospitals.
And that reporting measure was preceded by this:
) The State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide; to that end, the State of Israel shall not act to deny or otherwise restrict
access by fact-finding missions, international mandates and other bodies to Gaza to assist in ensuring the preservation and retention of said evidence.
= deleting your tiktoks = you just damned your country.
Reminder that anti-zionism explicitly calls for the destruction of the Israeli state and its inhabiitants.
Zionism requires genocide?
Heba Gowayed: Sharing with you @sareemakdisi response to me asking whether calling for a ceasefire would’ve been stronger than ICJ’s statement. His response is that saying stop all forms of genocide is much stronger as “killing is only one of those forms”
posted by cendawanita at 9:00 AM on January 26 [9 favorites]
I don't know if that's my description with how even "Bring Them Back" slogans are considered unpatriotic now (per you can see in the videos of protesters against the aid trucks entering Gaza), and some of the polling data, but the polls were a month old, so who knows. Those getting verbal and police abuse were from the last weeks though.
Anyway, as I promised--
Sam Hosseini
Francis Boyle on the ICJ Orders “This is a massive, overwhelming legal victory for the Republic of South Africa against Israel on behalf of the Palestinians. The UN General Assembly now can suspend Israel from participation in its activities as it did for South Africa and Yugoslavia. It can admit Palestine as a full member. And -- especially since the International Criminal Court has been a farce -- it can establish a tribunal to prosecute the highest level officials of the Israeli government, both civilian and military.”
When this case was first announced, Francis Boyle gave a couple of interviews (iirc his Democracy Now one linked here). He's a human rights lawyer who served as counsel for Bosnia and Herzegovina. This one in AA gives more elaboration to the above (and he fully anticipated that South Africa will win) - he anticipates consequences will include Israel becoming a pariah state. (with apologies to people from the caste)
Craig Murray: A partial victory at the Hague but a real one. The outline of facts was damning and this court is obviously minded to find genocide when the substantive case comes forward.
No direct order to ceasefire but Israel explicitly instructed to obey the Genocide Convention on not killing Palestinians or creating impossible conditions for them to live, against a clear background that the court does not believe their assurances to date.
Heidi Matthews (why did I say Williams...): The ICJ's written order and separate opinions will be released shortly. But my first reaction is that this is a big win for Palestinian advocates. Some will be disappointed that the Court stopped short of ordering a ceasefire. But... 🧵
... the fact that the Court ordered the measures it DID, including directing Israel not to commit or incite genocide, indicates it has concluded that it is (a) plausible for Palestinians in Gaza to claim protection from genocide, and (b) that the need for protection is urgent.
I think we can infer from this that *at a minimum* there is a serious risk that Israel will commit genocide. This is important because it puts *all states* on formal notice of the serious risk of genocide, which triggers states’ duty to take concrete steps to prevent genocide. Among other things, this means that in order for states to fulfill their international obligations under the Genocide Convention they must *do something*. For e.g., states exporting arms or military technology to Israel must stop.
The short story: this order on provisional measures will have an important and immediate impact on how states are required to act under international law. It will also radically shift the global conversation about what is happening in Gaza.
Another related point: I need to read the separate opinions, but my intuition is that it's a massive win that Israeli ad hoc judge Barak sided with the majority in ordering many of the provisional measures. He may have judged his own legacy as more important than Netanyahu's.
Note re my observation about whether states must stop exporting arms to Israel on the basis of these provisional measures. The details of domestic legislation will be important here. At a minimum, states should conduct thorough and transparent assessments of whether their arms exports will or could be used by Israel to commit international crimes, including genocide. Certainly the fact that states are now on formal notice that there is a serious risk of genocide should mean that preventing genocide in these circumstances means halting arms exports.
The provisional measure on reporting also has an interesting hook: South Africa MUST review it. Non-compliance in both reporting as well as substance per the order means sanctions can follow. The other hook (for me) is the specific note on acts preventing childbirth, considering the amount of destruction to healthcare facilities and hospitals.
And that reporting measure was preceded by this:
) The State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide; to that end, the State of Israel shall not act to deny or otherwise restrict
access by fact-finding missions, international mandates and other bodies to Gaza to assist in ensuring the preservation and retention of said evidence.
= deleting your tiktoks = you just damned your country.
Reminder that anti-zionism explicitly calls for the destruction of the Israeli state and its inhabiitants.
Zionism requires genocide?
Heba Gowayed: Sharing with you @sareemakdisi response to me asking whether calling for a ceasefire would’ve been stronger than ICJ’s statement. His response is that saying stop all forms of genocide is much stronger as “killing is only one of those forms”
posted by cendawanita at 9:00 AM on January 26 [9 favorites]
I would also like to point out that, like millions of other Jews in the US and around the world, the baseless accusations above do not represent my views, let alone that of all Jewish people.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:02 AM on January 26 [10 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:02 AM on January 26 [10 favorites]
Mod note: A couple of comments deleted. Please avoid insensitive comments. Also please do not conflate the state of Israel and Jews is antisemitism.
posted by loup (staff) at 9:05 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 9:05 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
I was about to thank loup for the deletions and then I saw what got deleted and what didn't and... I don't get it. I don't understand MeFi anymore. I honestly don't.
posted by The Bellman at 9:09 AM on January 26 [1 favorite]
posted by The Bellman at 9:09 AM on January 26 [1 favorite]
They should tell Hamas to release the hostages and stop firing rockets into Israel. That would stop the war.
I keep thinking through what people who say this actually want, given the average Gazan is displaced, possibly injured, largely without food, water, medical aid and either a child or responsible for one.
They can't expect some massive great democratic march or protest past the IDF into the areas of Gaza they've been told they must vacate. The IDF would not tolerate that kind of organisation, and no-one expects Hamas to have any mercy on them. Hunger strikes? To motivate who? They're already starving. It only works in some sci-fi novella where every Gazan has a button, and if only 50% +1 would press it, the siege could end, Hamas would all step down.
But in the world I live in, I don't see how "they" (Palestinians) could possibly force Hamas into laying down arms. Because they're a distinct ethnic group, not members of an organisation, most are innocent civilians currently struggling to survive in the wreckage of their city. So it just reads as accepting that the killing will go on until Gaza is empty.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:32 AM on January 26 [26 favorites]
I keep thinking through what people who say this actually want, given the average Gazan is displaced, possibly injured, largely without food, water, medical aid and either a child or responsible for one.
They can't expect some massive great democratic march or protest past the IDF into the areas of Gaza they've been told they must vacate. The IDF would not tolerate that kind of organisation, and no-one expects Hamas to have any mercy on them. Hunger strikes? To motivate who? They're already starving. It only works in some sci-fi novella where every Gazan has a button, and if only 50% +1 would press it, the siege could end, Hamas would all step down.
But in the world I live in, I don't see how "they" (Palestinians) could possibly force Hamas into laying down arms. Because they're a distinct ethnic group, not members of an organisation, most are innocent civilians currently struggling to survive in the wreckage of their city. So it just reads as accepting that the killing will go on until Gaza is empty.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:32 AM on January 26 [26 favorites]
Israel's national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, tweets: "Hague schmague".
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:53 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:53 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
So long as Israel has the backing of the US, which routinely wipes its ass with ICJ rulings, nothing substantive will change.
posted by Panjandrum at 10:03 AM on January 26 [4 favorites]
posted by Panjandrum at 10:03 AM on January 26 [4 favorites]
Before I go to sleep, and it's probably my background and slight optimism of the day informed by a bit of history, so I'll just continue to sound like a broken record on this, but: don't discount the global south or basically countries outside the five eyes alliance. South Africa took the respectable route, Yemen the direct action one, but who do you think have been moving the dial on this?
posted by cendawanita at 10:29 AM on January 26 [15 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 10:29 AM on January 26 [15 favorites]
Oh right, before I forget: Alonso Gurmendi have been tracking state reactions to the filing, and now ruling.
(Direct twt links just in case the nitter cache becomes wonky since these threads eventually become unwieldy)
1. Filing - Shall we start tracking reactions to South Africa’s 🇿🇦 ICJ application against Israel 🇮🇱?
2. Ruling - In order to keep things more organised, I will be pasting reactions to the ICJ's Order here, in a different thread from the one for reactions to South Africa's application to the ICJ
For the filing one, eventually he started tracking via a chart of flags, and this was the latest. Look at the distribution. Postcolonialism may have continued to be an imperfect process because much of the dynamics remained imperialist, but you can't deny self-determination still left a significant room of independence including in coalition-building.
Now let's check the reactions to the Order.
posted by cendawanita at 10:37 AM on January 26 [9 favorites]
(Direct twt links just in case the nitter cache becomes wonky since these threads eventually become unwieldy)
1. Filing - Shall we start tracking reactions to South Africa’s 🇿🇦 ICJ application against Israel 🇮🇱?
2. Ruling - In order to keep things more organised, I will be pasting reactions to the ICJ's Order here, in a different thread from the one for reactions to South Africa's application to the ICJ
For the filing one, eventually he started tracking via a chart of flags, and this was the latest. Look at the distribution. Postcolonialism may have continued to be an imperfect process because much of the dynamics remained imperialist, but you can't deny self-determination still left a significant room of independence including in coalition-building.
Now let's check the reactions to the Order.
posted by cendawanita at 10:37 AM on January 26 [9 favorites]
On the US front:
The US State Department has currently put a temporary hold on funding for UNRWA after 12 staffers are accused of involvement in the Oct 7 attack. UNRWA chief has terminated the contracts of those accused and launched an investigation.
The UAW's endorsement of Biden has sparked internal dissent over Gaza.
Many US cities have passed ceasefire resolutions.
Arab/Muslim American leaders have canceled a planned meeting with Biden's campaign manager amid fury over Biden's handling of the Israel-Hamas war. "Unless something drastic happens, you have lost the Arab American and Muslim community. At this point, from what I can see, there's no winning them over. That was the idea of the meeting," Turfe said. "Until there's a ceasefire, the overall consensus in the community is they're not welcome here, essentially."
posted by toastyk at 10:40 AM on January 26 [9 favorites]
The US State Department has currently put a temporary hold on funding for UNRWA after 12 staffers are accused of involvement in the Oct 7 attack. UNRWA chief has terminated the contracts of those accused and launched an investigation.
The UAW's endorsement of Biden has sparked internal dissent over Gaza.
Many US cities have passed ceasefire resolutions.
Arab/Muslim American leaders have canceled a planned meeting with Biden's campaign manager amid fury over Biden's handling of the Israel-Hamas war. "Unless something drastic happens, you have lost the Arab American and Muslim community. At this point, from what I can see, there's no winning them over. That was the idea of the meeting," Turfe said. "Until there's a ceasefire, the overall consensus in the community is they're not welcome here, essentially."
posted by toastyk at 10:40 AM on January 26 [9 favorites]
As a point of order: calling for the destruction of the state of Israel is in no way the same thing as calling for the destruction of its inhabitants, much less of Jewish people in general. If "the USA" were destroyed as a polity tomorrow, everyone living in what is now the USA would still be living exactly where they were.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:54 AM on January 26 [11 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:54 AM on January 26 [11 favorites]
As a point of order: calling for the destruction of the state of Israel is in no way the same thing as calling for the destruction of its inhabitants
As a further point of order: I highly HIGHLY disagree with the above, to the point that it disgusts me that someone could so casually post it and not expect pushback. "Destruction of Israel" = ending the lives of Jews and disturbing Jewish existence worldwide and anyone who tries to say otherwise is either swimming so deep in anti-Semitic propaganda that they don't know it (i.e. "what the heck is water" said the fish) or is actively promoting same.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:07 AM on January 26 [8 favorites]
As a further point of order: I highly HIGHLY disagree with the above, to the point that it disgusts me that someone could so casually post it and not expect pushback. "Destruction of Israel" = ending the lives of Jews and disturbing Jewish existence worldwide and anyone who tries to say otherwise is either swimming so deep in anti-Semitic propaganda that they don't know it (i.e. "what the heck is water" said the fish) or is actively promoting same.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:07 AM on January 26 [8 favorites]
I mean, no? States are not people!
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:11 AM on January 26 [18 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:11 AM on January 26 [18 favorites]
(I will happily call for the destruction of every other state, too, if you want me to; the entire concept of the Westphalian nation-state is rooted in colonialism and genocide! They all have to go!)
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:18 AM on January 26 [19 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:18 AM on January 26 [19 favorites]
The ICJ ruling says there is a plausible and urgent risk of genocide in Gaza (54, 74). It orders Israel to stop killing Palestinians in Gaza and to stop creating conditions for their death (86(1)). It specifically states that the measures Israel says it's taking to minimize civilian harm are not sufficient (73).
I'm repeating these facts because they bear repeating, and because they are already being obfuscated by distraction and distortion.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 11:22 AM on January 26 [33 favorites]
I'm repeating these facts because they bear repeating, and because they are already being obfuscated by distraction and distortion.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 11:22 AM on January 26 [33 favorites]
and disturbing Jewish existence worldwide and anyone who tries to say otherwise is either swimming so deep in anti-Semitic propaganda that they don't know it
To argue that to live stateless is to destroy the lives of all those without a state, while forcing millions of people in Gaza to live without a state, is the height of hypocrisy, whatever I personally may think about the necessity (or lack thereof) of states.
posted by corb at 11:28 AM on January 26 [46 favorites]
To argue that to live stateless is to destroy the lives of all those without a state, while forcing millions of people in Gaza to live without a state, is the height of hypocrisy, whatever I personally may think about the necessity (or lack thereof) of states.
posted by corb at 11:28 AM on January 26 [46 favorites]
Mouin Rabbani has another excellent thread of analysis in response to the ICJ order. (The link is to Nitter so people can read the whole thread.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:29 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:29 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
did China abstain? I'm not seeing their flag on cendawanita's link to the twitter post of votes by flag.
i do find it funny that the rules that apply to the small states are never applied to the big players (unless they lose the war i suppose).
posted by kokaku at 11:34 AM on January 26
i do find it funny that the rules that apply to the small states are never applied to the big players (unless they lose the war i suppose).
posted by kokaku at 11:34 AM on January 26
The destruction of the state of Czechoslovakia did not cause the people of that country to burst into flames. Maybe I'm misreading things here but when I see "destruction of the state of Israel" there's a "and creation of..." that would follow.
Now I can see why the concern exists, given the slow destruction of the West Bank and Gaza (AND the people within) as those spaces are turned into Israel.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:34 AM on January 26 [8 favorites]
Now I can see why the concern exists, given the slow destruction of the West Bank and Gaza (AND the people within) as those spaces are turned into Israel.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:34 AM on January 26 [8 favorites]
kokaku: the verdict came out at like 10pm China time; it's currently 3:30am there. I'd expect there to be an official response sometime later today.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:36 AM on January 26 [1 favorite]
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:36 AM on January 26 [1 favorite]
I'm repeating these facts because they bear repeating, and because they are already being obfuscated by distraction and distortion.
Just to add to your restating of the facts: the order is also intended "with immediate effect". Stopping the killing of Palestinians in Gaza with immediate effect - the sophistry insisting that that's not an order for a ceasefire is a despicable thing to behold.
Citations Needed have posted a quick news-brief with a poignant analysis of the PR workings visible in the immediate US & UK media reactions to the ruling.
posted by progosk at 11:37 AM on January 26 [10 favorites]
Just to add to your restating of the facts: the order is also intended "with immediate effect". Stopping the killing of Palestinians in Gaza with immediate effect - the sophistry insisting that that's not an order for a ceasefire is a despicable thing to behold.
Citations Needed have posted a quick news-brief with a poignant analysis of the PR workings visible in the immediate US & UK media reactions to the ruling.
posted by progosk at 11:37 AM on January 26 [10 favorites]
Talking past something so obvious, which there's no way either of you are naive enough to ignore: that there is no non-magical way to turn Israel from "state" to "not a state" in a way that wouldn't involve more violence and destruction. And if your response is to say "that's what's happening now to the Palestinians?" I would respond "And what was happening in Gaza before October 7 that makes you believe Hamas was interested in statecraft?" but also "...and what about the current situation makes you eager to inflict it on more groups of people?"
The physical Israel exists. Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs exist. The State of Israel exists. Any solution that begins with "But maybe they shouldn't!" sets all the covert anti-Semitism alarms ringing.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:39 AM on January 26 [6 favorites]
The physical Israel exists. Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs exist. The State of Israel exists. Any solution that begins with "But maybe they shouldn't!" sets all the covert anti-Semitism alarms ringing.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:39 AM on January 26 [6 favorites]
I mean, maybe take a look at the circumstances the conversation is happening in? I think there's very-often-implied "[should not exist] as the apartheid religious ethnostate that is currently committing genocide." tacked on at the end. Again, when I say "the US shouldn't exist", it doesn't have anything to do with Americans, it has to do with the American state. If you can't distinguish a state from the people living there, that's your problem, not mine.
And might I suggest that this broad view you seem to be taking is blinding you to the actual suffering going on? Israel as a state is still defended by the West. Palestine as a state is both figuratively and quite literally being eroded.
Guess what - most people saying "states are structures that perpetuate colonialism" are not saying "thus, we must... destroy all the people who live in states." That you'd think so - either in all cases or only in the case of Israel - makes it hard to engage.
posted by sagc at 11:47 AM on January 26 [19 favorites]
And might I suggest that this broad view you seem to be taking is blinding you to the actual suffering going on? Israel as a state is still defended by the West. Palestine as a state is both figuratively and quite literally being eroded.
Guess what - most people saying "states are structures that perpetuate colonialism" are not saying "thus, we must... destroy all the people who live in states." That you'd think so - either in all cases or only in the case of Israel - makes it hard to engage.
posted by sagc at 11:47 AM on January 26 [19 favorites]
I support a singular, secular, binational state between the river and the sea, with full civil rights for everyone within its borders and a full right of return for all refugees and exiles created since 1947. Israel could accomplish this tomorrow without any violence to speak of; it just will not, because it refuses to countenance Jewish people becoming a minority.
(Remember, they passed a law in 2018 stripping Arabic of its status as an official language and stating that "Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people and they have an exclusive right to national self-determination in it." Arab Israelis are officially, in law, second-class citizens.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:53 AM on January 26 [21 favorites]
(Remember, they passed a law in 2018 stripping Arabic of its status as an official language and stating that "Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people and they have an exclusive right to national self-determination in it." Arab Israelis are officially, in law, second-class citizens.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:53 AM on January 26 [21 favorites]
Hamas is not interested in statescraft. Hamas will also not be defeated by a standing army. We tried something similar and twenty years later ran Evacuation of Saigon2 in Kabul.
What people seem to want is the Ireland/Northern Ireland solution and that would require Gaza and the West Bank to be, you know, actual independent states equal in the eyes of the world to Israel. But they aren't and there's no evidence they ever will be.
Which leaves a one state solution and speed running post-apartheid/Jim Crow era bullshit before that state flies apart.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:54 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
What people seem to want is the Ireland/Northern Ireland solution and that would require Gaza and the West Bank to be, you know, actual independent states equal in the eyes of the world to Israel. But they aren't and there's no evidence they ever will be.
Which leaves a one state solution and speed running post-apartheid/Jim Crow era bullshit before that state flies apart.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:54 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
And what was happening in Gaza before October 7 that makes you believe Hamas was interested in statecraft
so there's some academic research on this, plenty of it, that's a quick "site:.edu" search away:
From the Princeton University Press: "Hamas and Civil Society in Gaza: Engaging the Islamist Social Sector"
"Roy demonstrates how Islamic social institutions in Gaza and the West Bank advocated a moderate approach to change that valued order and stability, not disorder and instability; were less dogmatically Islamic than is often assumed; and served people who had a range of political outlooks and no history of acting collectively in support of radical Islam. These institutions attempted to create civic communities, not religious congregations. They reflected a deep commitment to stimulate a social, cultural, and moral renewal of the Muslim community, one couched not only—or even primarily—in religious terms."
posted by paimapi at 11:56 AM on January 26 [11 favorites]
so there's some academic research on this, plenty of it, that's a quick "site:.edu" search away:
From the Princeton University Press: "Hamas and Civil Society in Gaza: Engaging the Islamist Social Sector"
"Roy demonstrates how Islamic social institutions in Gaza and the West Bank advocated a moderate approach to change that valued order and stability, not disorder and instability; were less dogmatically Islamic than is often assumed; and served people who had a range of political outlooks and no history of acting collectively in support of radical Islam. These institutions attempted to create civic communities, not religious congregations. They reflected a deep commitment to stimulate a social, cultural, and moral renewal of the Muslim community, one couched not only—or even primarily—in religious terms."
posted by paimapi at 11:56 AM on January 26 [11 favorites]
Gaza and the West Bank (along with East Jerusalem) are parts of a single independent state, not separate independent states. It is all Palestine.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:57 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:57 AM on January 26 [2 favorites]
They're currently being run by different entities, no?
posted by Slackermagee at 11:59 AM on January 26
posted by Slackermagee at 11:59 AM on January 26
Slackermagee: so are California and Florida. They're still both part of the USA.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:01 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:01 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
like most things involved in statecraft, there's something called politics and politics includes extremists and moderates, progressives and conservatives. to say that there is a singular 'Hamas' or even a Palestinian entity that is wholly uninterested in nation state building as if there weren't internal factions with their own developed motives, dreams of the future, etc... well that's just good old fashioned ethnocentrism
in an ideal world we would see the progressive, peace-driven leftist factions from Israel and Palestine come together to hash out a solution that not a single person here is qualified to even begin to imagine
in our current world, militaristic, war-mongers have dominated Israeli politics for decades and unaccountable extremists have responded to increasing settlements, abuse of Palestinian workers, unjustified jailings and killings, etc with violence of their own leading to increasing escalation and our current situation
posted by paimapi at 12:04 PM on January 26 [18 favorites]
in an ideal world we would see the progressive, peace-driven leftist factions from Israel and Palestine come together to hash out a solution that not a single person here is qualified to even begin to imagine
in our current world, militaristic, war-mongers have dominated Israeli politics for decades and unaccountable extremists have responded to increasing settlements, abuse of Palestinian workers, unjustified jailings and killings, etc with violence of their own leading to increasing escalation and our current situation
posted by paimapi at 12:04 PM on January 26 [18 favorites]
Because there's a Federal Government that oversees both? Reread the top line of the wiki which is pretty clear that Gaza and the West Bank are definitely not run by a single top level organization.
posted by Slackermagee at 12:05 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
posted by Slackermagee at 12:05 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
Like, this really is important to understand. Hamas is the government of Gaza; the Palestinian Authority is the government of the West Bank; Likud's unity government is the government of East Jerusalem (because it's been more thoroughly illegally annexed). However, Hamas cites settler provocations and acts by Israel in the West Bank and East Jerusalem as justification for its actions; it considers itself to be acting militarily for all of Palestine, not just the part it controls.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:05 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:05 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
(There is no singular government of Palestine because Israel has spent 75 years preventing that from happening, and deliberately sabotaging all gestures toward unity between the various factions of the Palestinian liberation movement.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:07 PM on January 26 [28 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:07 PM on January 26 [28 favorites]
Again you describe Palestine and Palestinians as they are only objects that are acted upon by Israel, and as though Israel is a uniform entity that acts out of hatred.
Tell me then, what were the Oslo Accords for? What did people work hard for and struggle and strive for after the end of the first Intafada? Why was Yitzhak Rabin murdered by his own citizens, if not for the work he did to try and build peace? Your embrace of stereotypes blinds you.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:24 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
Tell me then, what were the Oslo Accords for? What did people work hard for and struggle and strive for after the end of the first Intafada? Why was Yitzhak Rabin murdered by his own citizens, if not for the work he did to try and build peace? Your embrace of stereotypes blinds you.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:24 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
I'm going to take back the "Hamas not interested in statescraft" bit as a brief review of their wiki shows a lot of, "Overtures made by X and supported by Y within Hamas, these two were killed in two targeted bombings by the IDF in the subsequent month".
If there were a two state solution, it would not be the first time (or even the second time) that two (or one of two) countries stood by a line and said, "Yeah, there's a line here, but there's definitely nothing over there on the other side of it even though I'm currently respecting said line for no particular reason."
posted by Slackermagee at 12:33 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
If there were a two state solution, it would not be the first time (or even the second time) that two (or one of two) countries stood by a line and said, "Yeah, there's a line here, but there's definitely nothing over there on the other side of it even though I'm currently respecting said line for no particular reason."
posted by Slackermagee at 12:33 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
I appreciate all the thought and time going in to the links posted, but can I ask that we make room for discussion? This is a discussion based community and it's important to allow space for multiple voices.
posted by latkes at 12:42 PM on January 26 [7 favorites]
posted by latkes at 12:42 PM on January 26 [7 favorites]
Again you describe Palestine and Palestinians as they are only objects that are acted upon by Israel
the comment i think you're quoting literally mentions the multi-factional palestinian liberation movement, which is hardly the denial of palestinian agency you're portraying.
What did people work hard for and struggle and strive for after the end of the first Intafada?
well, they failed, because the extremism that led to rabin's assassination was pretty influential by then and certainly seems to be in the driver's seat now. the complaint seems to be that it's unreasonable to judge israel as a polity by the actions of the more extreme elements of israeli society, which is fair enough in principle but is, like, maybe not the highest-priority instance of people being unfairly held collectively responsible for the actions of their hardline government, at the moment?
posted by busted_crayons at 12:46 PM on January 26 [8 favorites]
the comment i think you're quoting literally mentions the multi-factional palestinian liberation movement, which is hardly the denial of palestinian agency you're portraying.
What did people work hard for and struggle and strive for after the end of the first Intafada?
well, they failed, because the extremism that led to rabin's assassination was pretty influential by then and certainly seems to be in the driver's seat now. the complaint seems to be that it's unreasonable to judge israel as a polity by the actions of the more extreme elements of israeli society, which is fair enough in principle but is, like, maybe not the highest-priority instance of people being unfairly held collectively responsible for the actions of their hardline government, at the moment?
posted by busted_crayons at 12:46 PM on January 26 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I guess until the genocide stops, I'm not really too enthusiastic about every thread on this topic descending into accusations of anti-Semitism?
Like, let's stop the thing where millions of people are being systematically starved and denied health care first?
posted by constraint at 1:45 PM on January 26 [23 favorites]
Like, let's stop the thing where millions of people are being systematically starved and denied health care first?
posted by constraint at 1:45 PM on January 26 [23 favorites]
Like, let's stop the thing where millions of people are being systematically starved and denied health care first?
Realistically, there is zero, literally nothing, we can do on MetaFilter that will affect the situation one iota. So the absolute least we can do on this community discussion website is to not poison the discourse with anti-Semitism.
Speaking for myself, I believe in the two-state solution, because it is the only successful way countries have ever managed to live as neighbors after an occupation. And I believe with equal strength that a criminal extortionary group like Hamas cannot be a part of the solution, because Hamas is not a government, nor do they seek to govern, any more than the drug cartels seek to become state governments.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 2:04 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
Realistically, there is zero, literally nothing, we can do on MetaFilter that will affect the situation one iota. So the absolute least we can do on this community discussion website is to not poison the discourse with anti-Semitism.
Speaking for myself, I believe in the two-state solution, because it is the only successful way countries have ever managed to live as neighbors after an occupation. And I believe with equal strength that a criminal extortionary group like Hamas cannot be a part of the solution, because Hamas is not a government, nor do they seek to govern, any more than the drug cartels seek to become state governments.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 2:04 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
What were the Oslo Accords for? They were, in fact, for trying to fob Palestinians off with a Bantustan, just like every other proposed "two-state solution" so far.
If a Palestinian "state" isn't allowed to to have a military, or sovereignty over its own borders, airspace, territorial waters, or currency/markets, that is not a state.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:16 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
If a Palestinian "state" isn't allowed to to have a military, or sovereignty over its own borders, airspace, territorial waters, or currency/markets, that is not a state.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:16 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
not poison the discourse with anti-Semitism.
point out the actual instance in this thread or stop making insinuations.
posted by busted_crayons at 2:31 PM on January 26 [11 favorites]
point out the actual instance in this thread or stop making insinuations.
posted by busted_crayons at 2:31 PM on January 26 [11 favorites]
(there were instances, but i doubt they're the comments you're referring to)
posted by busted_crayons at 2:32 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
posted by busted_crayons at 2:32 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
Backing up for a sec... in the context of this conflict / ruling, am I to understand that Hamas cannot be cited for war crimes / genocide because they're not a party to the ICJ?
posted by ph00dz at 2:52 PM on January 26
posted by ph00dz at 2:52 PM on January 26
Realistically, there is zero, literally nothing, we can do on MetaFilter that will affect the situation one iota.
We could be discussing how to hold our governments responsible for fulfilling their obligations under the Genocide Convention by ending their political and material support for Israel's actions in Gaza.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 2:57 PM on January 26 [29 favorites]
We could be discussing how to hold our governments responsible for fulfilling their obligations under the Genocide Convention by ending their political and material support for Israel's actions in Gaza.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 2:57 PM on January 26 [29 favorites]
You can't force your political views on the legitimacy of modern states onto everyone else. People have different politics to you regarding statism and that doesn't mean they think Israel is the only state that should be abolished or that they're calling for genocide.
This Order came out on what is annual "fuck Australia, this state is bullshit" date, for a lot of people, for example. The only people who claim that's a call for mass forced immigration are racists and liars.
posted by Audreynachrome at 4:02 PM on January 26 [14 favorites]
This Order came out on what is annual "fuck Australia, this state is bullshit" date, for a lot of people, for example. The only people who claim that's a call for mass forced immigration are racists and liars.
posted by Audreynachrome at 4:02 PM on January 26 [14 favorites]
Quick suggestion that folks post summaries of links and just a few quick paragraphs as a quote, instead of looong excerpts that make the thread difficult to scroll through.
posted by mediareport at 4:04 PM on January 26 [9 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 4:04 PM on January 26 [9 favorites]
^ that is a cendawanita thing for sure, and I'm loath to mess with their style. I probably read more, and more carefully, for that reason.
posted by elkevelvet at 4:07 PM on January 26 [16 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 4:07 PM on January 26 [16 favorites]
Folks may enjoy this reflection by Sean Jacobs (a South African historian of South Africa) on what this trial has meant for South Africans. Link goes to the NYTimes.
posted by coffeecat at 4:12 PM on January 26 [5 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 4:12 PM on January 26 [5 favorites]
I don't know why it is that Israel is the only modern country that constantly needs to justify its very existence the the rest of the world
the same poster literally characterised the entire Westphalian system and the phenomenon of the nation-state as colonialist and genocidal, so this is simply a lie.
are all anarchists antisemites?
posted by busted_crayons at 4:22 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
the same poster literally characterised the entire Westphalian system and the phenomenon of the nation-state as colonialist and genocidal, so this is simply a lie.
are all anarchists antisemites?
posted by busted_crayons at 4:22 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
Yeah, i mean, in the short- and medium-term i am for a single binational state in the territory of Palestine (which includes Israel), but that's because it's the only just solution within the already-completely-monstrous Westphalian system. In the long-term, all states need to be abolished!
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:33 PM on January 26 [6 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:33 PM on January 26 [6 favorites]
where I take issue with the repeated depiction of Israel as a monolithic stereotype that "deliberately sabotaging all gestures toward unity" by pointing out that the greatest chance for peace in the Middle East was in fact spear-headed by Clinton, Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin, who worked so hard for it it cracked his own coalition and cost him his life... which you decided to toss off as "well, they failed".
well, they did fail. nobody depicted israel as a monolith any more than palestine has been depicted as a monolith in these threads. it seems to me that you're simultaneously decrying what you see as israel being singled out for special criticism, but also demanding that israel be given special treatment. i'm sorry that the pushback is unpleasant and i'm not doubting your sincerity, but identifying with israel, the state, and wishing to support it, is an instance of what in every other case is called something like "patriotism", and patriotism isn't a protected characteristic.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:35 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
well, they did fail. nobody depicted israel as a monolith any more than palestine has been depicted as a monolith in these threads. it seems to me that you're simultaneously decrying what you see as israel being singled out for special criticism, but also demanding that israel be given special treatment. i'm sorry that the pushback is unpleasant and i'm not doubting your sincerity, but identifying with israel, the state, and wishing to support it, is an instance of what in every other case is called something like "patriotism", and patriotism isn't a protected characteristic.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:35 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
but that's because it's the only just solution within the already-completely-monstrous Westphalian system. In the long-term, all states need to be abolished!
from the river to the sea, one of many of the world's painful counterexamples to the plausibility and wisdom of the westphalian order will transform into a new model of social organisation and intercommunity harmony that will, in concert with other examples, point the way toward saner and probably much more varied and regionally specific ways of structuring society all over the world.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:48 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
from the river to the sea, one of many of the world's painful counterexamples to the plausibility and wisdom of the westphalian order will transform into a new model of social organisation and intercommunity harmony that will, in concert with other examples, point the way toward saner and probably much more varied and regionally specific ways of structuring society all over the world.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:48 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
Escalation
British owned Naphta carrier hit by a missile and on fire 60 miles off Yemen.
posted by adamvasco at 4:51 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
British owned Naphta carrier hit by a missile and on fire 60 miles off Yemen.
posted by adamvasco at 4:51 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
I don't know why it is that Israel is the only modern country that constantly needs to justify its very existence the the rest of the world
I don't know why either as Ukraine has been fighting for its existence for nearly 2 years.
posted by clavdivs at 4:52 PM on January 26 [10 favorites]
I don't know why either as Ukraine has been fighting for its existence for nearly 2 years.
posted by clavdivs at 4:52 PM on January 26 [10 favorites]
Israel has been explicitly found to be taking actions that are potentially genocidal, by the international court that literally rules on genocides.
It's not anti-semitism to:
I don't love comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, but it's sure seemed like a relevant comparison for... quite a while now, obviously. And now Israel's gone fully mask-off. Its soldiers are openly, gleefully sadistic. They revel in the pain of Palestinians without running water or working school systems. Israel's government is openly flaunting its defiance of international law. Like... not even trying to pretend otherwise. Pulling moves that are honestly Trumplike in that they all but dare their supporters to do anything but cheer their criminal behavior on, while spitting in the faces of their critics for daring to think that "justice" is maybe a real thing that matters.
I feel horrible for the citizens of Israel who are as horrified by their country as I am. I feel for the politicians who are trying to steer the country away from its current plan of action. I haven't heard much about Israeli soldiers and military leadership who are sickened by what their military is doing, but surely, surely they exist. My shame and disgust for Israel is not a blanket condemnation of each and every person who lives in that nation, many of whom are surely heartsick and dreaming of—and despairing for—peace.
But Israel's behavior is shameful. I am ashamed of what's being done in the name of Judaism, what atrocities are being accused. I am ashamed of the slaughter, the cruelty, the genocide, whose critics are being slandered by people who claim to be denouncing them for anti-semitism, and whose sloppy definitions of anti-semitism make it clear that, to them, Jewish identity itself is little more than a convenient rhetorical tool, a tactic for erasing voices from a conversation because it would be too inconvenient to allow them to be heard.
My Jewish identity is founded on the belief that people, and peoples, should not be silenced. And there is such a blatant and clear instance of one group of people trying to unilaterally silence another, trying to wipe a nation from the Earth, that it requires a studious and willful shutting of the eyes not to notice.
Hell: you don't have to listen to the Palestinians themselves, or to critics of Israel. Just listen to Israel itself. They're saying it too.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 4:56 PM on January 26 [67 favorites]
It's not anti-semitism to:
- point that out
- be horrified and disgusted by it
- point out that Israel's government has been explicitly pursuing the annihilation of the Palestinian people for literal decades, a fact that has been so saliently obvious that people have been saying it for said decades, despite constantly being accused of anti-semitism for pointing it out, and despite those people's predictions of Israel's reactions to October 7th were spot-fucking-on whereas Israel's defenders' predictions relied on a fantasy Israel that doesn't have literal government officials who've openly worshipped mass-murderers of Palestinian people since well before this incident happened
I don't love comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, but it's sure seemed like a relevant comparison for... quite a while now, obviously. And now Israel's gone fully mask-off. Its soldiers are openly, gleefully sadistic. They revel in the pain of Palestinians without running water or working school systems. Israel's government is openly flaunting its defiance of international law. Like... not even trying to pretend otherwise. Pulling moves that are honestly Trumplike in that they all but dare their supporters to do anything but cheer their criminal behavior on, while spitting in the faces of their critics for daring to think that "justice" is maybe a real thing that matters.
I feel horrible for the citizens of Israel who are as horrified by their country as I am. I feel for the politicians who are trying to steer the country away from its current plan of action. I haven't heard much about Israeli soldiers and military leadership who are sickened by what their military is doing, but surely, surely they exist. My shame and disgust for Israel is not a blanket condemnation of each and every person who lives in that nation, many of whom are surely heartsick and dreaming of—and despairing for—peace.
But Israel's behavior is shameful. I am ashamed of what's being done in the name of Judaism, what atrocities are being accused. I am ashamed of the slaughter, the cruelty, the genocide, whose critics are being slandered by people who claim to be denouncing them for anti-semitism, and whose sloppy definitions of anti-semitism make it clear that, to them, Jewish identity itself is little more than a convenient rhetorical tool, a tactic for erasing voices from a conversation because it would be too inconvenient to allow them to be heard.
My Jewish identity is founded on the belief that people, and peoples, should not be silenced. And there is such a blatant and clear instance of one group of people trying to unilaterally silence another, trying to wipe a nation from the Earth, that it requires a studious and willful shutting of the eyes not to notice.
Hell: you don't have to listen to the Palestinians themselves, or to critics of Israel. Just listen to Israel itself. They're saying it too.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 4:56 PM on January 26 [67 favorites]
Iran: The Wall Street Journal reported that the United States secretly warned Iran that the Islamic State was preparing to conduct the January 3 terrorist attack in Kerman.
That's mighty nice of U.S.
Political Negotiations: US Central Intelligence Agency Director Bill Burns will meet with the Qatari prime minister and the Egyptian and Israeli intelligence chiefs in the coming days to broker a deal for the release of hostages and a pause in fighting in the Gaza Strip.
is it right that within the discussions there's been no mention of disarming Hamas if Israel keeps a permanent ceasefire.
that would be a pretty sneaky caveat if the United States and Israel's allies continue to sell it weapons but the brokering parties allowed Hamas to remain armed.
posted by clavdivs at 5:03 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
That's mighty nice of U.S.
Political Negotiations: US Central Intelligence Agency Director Bill Burns will meet with the Qatari prime minister and the Egyptian and Israeli intelligence chiefs in the coming days to broker a deal for the release of hostages and a pause in fighting in the Gaza Strip.
is it right that within the discussions there's been no mention of disarming Hamas if Israel keeps a permanent ceasefire.
that would be a pretty sneaky caveat if the United States and Israel's allies continue to sell it weapons but the brokering parties allowed Hamas to remain armed.
posted by clavdivs at 5:03 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
Jewish identity getting tried by the fucking Hague. You know, the court that's most famous for trying the fucking Nazis.
oh, I see your point but I believe it was the Nuremberg trials you're thinking of.
posted by clavdivs at 5:11 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
oh, I see your point but I believe it was the Nuremberg trials you're thinking of.
posted by clavdivs at 5:11 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
busted_crayons: yeah, i don't have that much hope for peace, but on the other hand, South Africa did in fact manage to build a solid post-Apartheid state, so it's at least possible that Israel could build a solid post-Apartheid state too. It will have to be forced to do so via international pressure, though; that's also the lesson of South African Apartheid.
Also, in re the ICJ ruling:
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:11 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
Also, in re the ICJ ruling:
The ICJ has no real enforcement mechanism anyway, and Israel would just as soon nuke The Hague so on a basic level it’s all PR wins and loses, namely those targeting squishy western liberals vital to backing Israel’s genocide. For better or worse the spin is what matters here.Adam Johnson on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:11 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
It will have to be forced to do so via international pressure, though; that's also the lesson of South African Apartheid.
100%. (i was being a little fantastically aspirational; actual hope levels are probably similar to yours, especially given what's been happening to people trying to be the international pressure.)
posted by busted_crayons at 5:27 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
100%. (i was being a little fantastically aspirational; actual hope levels are probably similar to yours, especially given what's been happening to people trying to be the international pressure.)
posted by busted_crayons at 5:27 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
Repeating for emphasis:
The Pluto Gangsta: Realistically, there is zero, literally nothing, we can do on MetaFilter that will affect the situation one iota.
Gerald Bostock: We could be discussing how to hold our governments responsible for fulfilling their obligations under the Genocide Convention by ending their political and material support for Israel's actions in Gaza.
For emphasis.
(I can't help long quotes especially since people sometimes don't really read past the headlines, which is a dangerous habit for these threads + other than not losing context, so much of these are stuck behind paywalls, and now that I'm using *redacted for not wanting to snitch*, I don't want to be caught out with an access issue)
posted by cendawanita at 5:28 PM on January 26 [10 favorites]
The Pluto Gangsta: Realistically, there is zero, literally nothing, we can do on MetaFilter that will affect the situation one iota.
Gerald Bostock: We could be discussing how to hold our governments responsible for fulfilling their obligations under the Genocide Convention by ending their political and material support for Israel's actions in Gaza.
For emphasis.
(I can't help long quotes especially since people sometimes don't really read past the headlines, which is a dangerous habit for these threads + other than not losing context, so much of these are stuck behind paywalls, and now that I'm using *redacted for not wanting to snitch*, I don't want to be caught out with an access issue)
posted by cendawanita at 5:28 PM on January 26 [10 favorites]
there is such a blatant and clear instance of one group of people trying to unilaterally silence another, trying to wipe a nation from the Earth
that it should be no surprise to find that the individuals most responsible for pursuing that policy are also the most likely to accuse its victims of intending to do the same thing to them.
Now Look What You Made Me Do is an abuser's mentaility, and it runs deep in Likud. Its likely root in the abuser's own early trauma may well be a reason for it, but it is not an excuse and treating it as if it were is disgusting.
If Israel wants the freedom from harsh criticism enjoyed by most modern settler colonial States, it needs to learn to apply the customary veneer of pretending to care about the indigenous population that its ongoing existence impoverishes. It would be in both Israel's and the US's interests for Israel to do so. Domestic abuse is much easier to sustain if the neighbours aren't constantly forced to listen to the old abuser's exuberantly abusive kid brother bragging about it.
posted by flabdablet at 5:41 PM on January 26 [9 favorites]
that it should be no surprise to find that the individuals most responsible for pursuing that policy are also the most likely to accuse its victims of intending to do the same thing to them.
Now Look What You Made Me Do is an abuser's mentaility, and it runs deep in Likud. Its likely root in the abuser's own early trauma may well be a reason for it, but it is not an excuse and treating it as if it were is disgusting.
If Israel wants the freedom from harsh criticism enjoyed by most modern settler colonial States, it needs to learn to apply the customary veneer of pretending to care about the indigenous population that its ongoing existence impoverishes. It would be in both Israel's and the US's interests for Israel to do so. Domestic abuse is much easier to sustain if the neighbours aren't constantly forced to listen to the old abuser's exuberantly abusive kid brother bragging about it.
posted by flabdablet at 5:41 PM on January 26 [9 favorites]
the domestic abuse take is quite interesting.
Is it because they love another, profess to love another or circumstances forces one or more party to be dependent on the stronger with love being the cover, an impetus.
busted crayons asked of an example per the
'River to the Sea'.
would 'sea to shining sea' work.
posted by clavdivs at 6:10 PM on January 26
Is it because they love another, profess to love another or circumstances forces one or more party to be dependent on the stronger with love being the cover, an impetus.
busted crayons asked of an example per the
'River to the Sea'.
would 'sea to shining sea' work.
posted by clavdivs at 6:10 PM on January 26
Our home is girt by sea.
posted by flabdablet at 6:14 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 6:14 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
Talking past something so obvious, which there's no way either of you are naive enough to ignore: that there is no non-magical way to turn Israel from "state" to "not a state" in a way that wouldn't involve more violence and destruction. And if your response is to say "that's what's happening now to the Palestinians?" I would respond "And what was happening in Gaza before October 7 that makes you believe Hamas was interested in statecraft?" but also "...and what about the current situation makes you eager to inflict it on more groups of people?"
The physical Israel exists. Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs exist. The State of Israel exists. Any solution that begins with "But maybe they shouldn't!" sets all the covert anti-Semitism alarms ringing.
From 1861 to 1865 much of the American South was ruled by an ethnonationalist state. We destroyed that state. The dominant ethnic group came out just fine, and saying that what happened was “anti-white racism” is justifiably regarded as crankery.
posted by rishabguha at 6:17 PM on January 26 [18 favorites]
The physical Israel exists. Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs exist. The State of Israel exists. Any solution that begins with "But maybe they shouldn't!" sets all the covert anti-Semitism alarms ringing.
From 1861 to 1865 much of the American South was ruled by an ethnonationalist state. We destroyed that state. The dominant ethnic group came out just fine, and saying that what happened was “anti-white racism” is justifiably regarded as crankery.
posted by rishabguha at 6:17 PM on January 26 [18 favorites]
Since folks are complaining about long comments, i'm gonna try something different on this one! (Click the little clicky arrow, or any other unlinked word)
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:23 PM on January 26 [21 favorites]
Gaza Protesters Crashed Biden’s 'Restore Roe' Rally. We Talked to Some of Them. (at Jezebel)
“We’re going to keep showing up and making them as uncomfortable as possible, and not allow them to sanitize the reality of what they’re supporting,” Barmada said. “You can’t support or ignore what this administration is doing and say you’re pro-women’s rights.”
Jezebel has previously spoken to groups including Care International, PFPPA, WHO, and Medical Aid for Palestinians about the horrific state of reproductive health in Gaza under Israeli bombardment and its ongoing blockade. Experts from these groups report that there is nowhere safe to give birth in Gaza, and the few remaining hospitals are entirely at capacity and often unable to help people who are going into labor. The dire lack of medical supplies has led to c-sections without anesthesia, as well as high rates of postpartum infections from lack of proper sanitary products, and increased infant mortality from lack of available health care. The miscarriage rate has surged by 300% and a complete dearth of hygiene products has led to surging rates of infection among menstruating people. Biden and Harris’ campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the protesters’ demands.
…
Speaking on the condition of anonymity out of fear of professional retaliation, an employee of one of the reproductive rights organizations involved in the rally told Jezebel that leadership at their organization “explicitly said we can’t speak” on Israel-Palestine “in any way that could be traced to the organization.” The employee also expressed frustration with how “white leaders” at top national women’s organizations have been “incredibly silent on atrocities that are happening in Gaza.”
“They’re always touting things like, ‘Believe Black women,’ ‘trust women of color,’ but when it actually comes to practicing their values, they don’t,” the employee said. Citing their experience working in fundraising, the employee also said they suspect national women’s organizations are “choosing to fall in line with oppressive systems because it benefits them,” pointing to how aligning with Democratic politicians is often required for fundraising. “These organizations will do anything to not affect their donor base.”
Renee Bracey Sherman, executive director of We Testify, an organization dedicated to amplifying the voices of people who have had abortions, told Jezebel she “did not sign up to be an arm of the Democratic Party.” She was invited to the rally by the Biden-Harris campaign but declined over its treatment of Palestinian women as well as what she characterized as the administration’s lack of meaningful advocacy for abortion access. Bracey Sherman says she can empathize with groups that chose to attend the rally, “but what I was deeply disturbed by was seeing a number of leaders in our movement cheering ‘four more years,’ as feminist protesters were begging the president to stop bombing pregnant people and children and families.” To Bracey Sherman, that some women’s groups could continue to unconditionally support Biden for merely identifying as “pro-choice,” while other feminists protest his treatment of Palestinian women, elucidates the difference between reproductive rights and reproductive justice—the latter of which is a framework that challenges systems of oppression and white supremacy and demands more than just a right to abortion.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:23 PM on January 26 [21 favorites]
From the US: (Center for Constitutional Rights) Gaza Genocide Lawsuit Against Biden Has Day in Court: Palestinians, Genocide Expert Provide Historic Testimony in U.S. Case - their press release of the hearing today (I keep needing to be reminded that this is a federal case):
One plaintiff testified from Gaza, one from Ramallah, and five plaintiffs provided live testimony in court, of the death, displacement, and destruction their families and communities have faced since Israel began its campaign of retaliation for the October 7 Hamas attacks – in just one example, approximately 60 members of Ahmed Abofoul’s extended family have been killed since the complaint was filed on November 13, underscoring the need for the court to issue an immediate injunction.
[...] The case charges President Biden, Secretary of State Blinken, and Secretary of Defense Austin with failing in their legal responsibility to prevent – and their complicity in – Israel’s genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. It seeks an emergency court order to halt U.S. support for Israel’s assault, including by enjoining the transfer of more weapons and unconditional support to the Israeli government.
“Our plaintiffs’ testimonies today demonstrate just how urgent it is for the Biden administration to finally do what they and the vast majority of the people of the world have demanded: stop sending weapons to enable Israel’s genocidal campaign against Palestinians in besieged Gaza and instead uphold its clear legal duty to end, not further, genocide,” said Katherine Gallagher, a senior attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights who argued in court today. “These are clear legal duties under U.S. and international law, and we call on the court to uphold its Constitutional role to hold President Biden, Secretary of State Blinken, and Secretary of Defense Austin to legal obligations and issue a preliminary injunction to stop the flow of weapons for Israel’s genocide.”
Civil societies are making similar moves (challenging legality/mandate) elsewhere too, I expect, considering established links, like for example, Victoria state in Australia: (ABC) Victorian government agreement with Israeli defence ministry 'highly unusual', analyst says:
Victoria quietly signed an agreement with Israel's Ministry of Defence (IMOD) a year ago to collaborate on projects and foster trade relations, deepening the state's ties with an increasingly controversial partner.
The state government says the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) — a non-binding document signalling the intentions of both parties — aims to identify projects that can deliver advanced manufacturing capabilities and highly skilled jobs for Victoria.
The agreement is listed on the Australian government's Foreign Arrangements Scheme register, as required by law, but the contents are not public.
However, there is no record of the MoU, signed in December 2022, on state government websites.
The Victorian government only confirmed the document to the ABC after repeated questioning, and said the MoU was not legally binding and that no projects had yet been undertaken.
posted by cendawanita at 6:42 PM on January 26 [7 favorites]
One plaintiff testified from Gaza, one from Ramallah, and five plaintiffs provided live testimony in court, of the death, displacement, and destruction their families and communities have faced since Israel began its campaign of retaliation for the October 7 Hamas attacks – in just one example, approximately 60 members of Ahmed Abofoul’s extended family have been killed since the complaint was filed on November 13, underscoring the need for the court to issue an immediate injunction.
[...] The case charges President Biden, Secretary of State Blinken, and Secretary of Defense Austin with failing in their legal responsibility to prevent – and their complicity in – Israel’s genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. It seeks an emergency court order to halt U.S. support for Israel’s assault, including by enjoining the transfer of more weapons and unconditional support to the Israeli government.
“Our plaintiffs’ testimonies today demonstrate just how urgent it is for the Biden administration to finally do what they and the vast majority of the people of the world have demanded: stop sending weapons to enable Israel’s genocidal campaign against Palestinians in besieged Gaza and instead uphold its clear legal duty to end, not further, genocide,” said Katherine Gallagher, a senior attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights who argued in court today. “These are clear legal duties under U.S. and international law, and we call on the court to uphold its Constitutional role to hold President Biden, Secretary of State Blinken, and Secretary of Defense Austin to legal obligations and issue a preliminary injunction to stop the flow of weapons for Israel’s genocide.”
Civil societies are making similar moves (challenging legality/mandate) elsewhere too, I expect, considering established links, like for example, Victoria state in Australia: (ABC) Victorian government agreement with Israeli defence ministry 'highly unusual', analyst says:
Victoria quietly signed an agreement with Israel's Ministry of Defence (IMOD) a year ago to collaborate on projects and foster trade relations, deepening the state's ties with an increasingly controversial partner.
The state government says the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) — a non-binding document signalling the intentions of both parties — aims to identify projects that can deliver advanced manufacturing capabilities and highly skilled jobs for Victoria.
The agreement is listed on the Australian government's Foreign Arrangements Scheme register, as required by law, but the contents are not public.
However, there is no record of the MoU, signed in December 2022, on state government websites.
The Victorian government only confirmed the document to the ABC after repeated questioning, and said the MoU was not legally binding and that no projects had yet been undertaken.
posted by cendawanita at 6:42 PM on January 26 [7 favorites]
Webinar this Saturday from the International Jewish Anti Zionist Network
posted by latkes at 6:59 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
posted by latkes at 6:59 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
(nitter) Rami Ayari: NEW: @AlgeriaUN receives instructions from the President of #Algeria Abdelmadjid Tebboune to request that a meeting of the #UN Security Council be held as soon as possible "in order to activate the ruling of the International Court of Justice on the provisional measures imposed on the Israeli occupation." @Algeria_MFA @CIJ_ICJ
"#Algeria considers that the ruling of the International Court of Justice announces the beginning of the end of the era of impunity, which the Israeli occupation has long benefited from to unleash its oppression of the Palestinian people and the suppression of all their legitimate rights." - @Algeria_MFA
A diplomatic source tells me: "Immediately after receiving the instructions of the President of the Republic, the Algerian mission in New York began consultations to prepare for a Security Council meeting regarding the International Court of Justice’s decision regarding the genocide committed by the Zionist entity in #Gaza."
Will the veto be activated? For a binding order like this? If that happens, this then goes to the General Assembly. Feel free to look up the vote count on this issue in the last 100+ days.
posted by cendawanita at 7:52 PM on January 26 [5 favorites]
"#Algeria considers that the ruling of the International Court of Justice announces the beginning of the end of the era of impunity, which the Israeli occupation has long benefited from to unleash its oppression of the Palestinian people and the suppression of all their legitimate rights." - @Algeria_MFA
A diplomatic source tells me: "Immediately after receiving the instructions of the President of the Republic, the Algerian mission in New York began consultations to prepare for a Security Council meeting regarding the International Court of Justice’s decision regarding the genocide committed by the Zionist entity in #Gaza."
Will the veto be activated? For a binding order like this? If that happens, this then goes to the General Assembly. Feel free to look up the vote count on this issue in the last 100+ days.
posted by cendawanita at 7:52 PM on January 26 [5 favorites]
Naks Bilal is also tracking states' responses, I'm just taking what's of interest for this thread (that's not USA because it's as expected, so mainly):
First the EU🇪🇺: “Orders of the International Court of Justice are binding on the Parties. The European Union expects their full, immediate and effective implementation.”
Spain 🇪🇸 welcomes the judgement from the ICJ today ordering provisional measures, and “calls on all parties to respect and comply with these measures in their entirety”.
Huge.
Namibia 🇳🇦, who put Germany on notice last week for forgetting its part in the Herero Genocide, welcomes the provisional measures ordered, and urges Israel to comply with the legally binding order of the court.
Shadow Foreign Secretary for UK’s 🇬🇧 Labour Party says the ICJ’s ruling is a ‘profoundly serious moment’, and says Israel must comply with the orders:
- IDF must stop killing Palestinians
- Let in all aid
- Punish those inciting genocide
- Report to the court
France 🇫🇷 says it reaffirms its confidence in the ICJ, and that France intends to intervene in the case once the possibility for them to do so opens up
New Zealand 🇳🇿 takes careful note of the ICJ’s ruling and calls for the binding provisional measures to be adhered to.
Germany 🇩🇪 , by way of @ABaerbock, says “the ICJ ordered interim measures, and these are binding under international law. Israel must abide by the measures.”
Surprising, and confuses Germany’s position somewhat given they’ve indicated intervention.
Canada 🇨🇦 : “Our support for the ICJ does not mean that we accept the premise of the case brought by South Africa.”
All these nations whose origins are steeped in genocide are holding on for dear life. Don’t worry - your time will come.
Netherlands 🇳🇱 supports the Court, respects the Court’s ruling and states the ruling is binding on Israel.
There is currently a case in the Netherlands 🇳🇱 calling for cessation of arms to Israel, specifically F-35 parts, that’ll be heard this Monday at The Hague Court of Appeal.
(That last one is related to some news this week where it's leaked that Prime Minister Rutte was seeking advice from the legal affairs ministry if there's any way they can say something that doesn't make it look like Israel isn't committing war crimes)
posted by cendawanita at 8:07 PM on January 26 [7 favorites]
First the EU🇪🇺: “Orders of the International Court of Justice are binding on the Parties. The European Union expects their full, immediate and effective implementation.”
Spain 🇪🇸 welcomes the judgement from the ICJ today ordering provisional measures, and “calls on all parties to respect and comply with these measures in their entirety”.
Huge.
Namibia 🇳🇦, who put Germany on notice last week for forgetting its part in the Herero Genocide, welcomes the provisional measures ordered, and urges Israel to comply with the legally binding order of the court.
Shadow Foreign Secretary for UK’s 🇬🇧 Labour Party says the ICJ’s ruling is a ‘profoundly serious moment’, and says Israel must comply with the orders:
- IDF must stop killing Palestinians
- Let in all aid
- Punish those inciting genocide
- Report to the court
France 🇫🇷 says it reaffirms its confidence in the ICJ, and that France intends to intervene in the case once the possibility for them to do so opens up
New Zealand 🇳🇿 takes careful note of the ICJ’s ruling and calls for the binding provisional measures to be adhered to.
Germany 🇩🇪 , by way of @ABaerbock, says “the ICJ ordered interim measures, and these are binding under international law. Israel must abide by the measures.”
Surprising, and confuses Germany’s position somewhat given they’ve indicated intervention.
Canada 🇨🇦 : “Our support for the ICJ does not mean that we accept the premise of the case brought by South Africa.”
All these nations whose origins are steeped in genocide are holding on for dear life. Don’t worry - your time will come.
Netherlands 🇳🇱 supports the Court, respects the Court’s ruling and states the ruling is binding on Israel.
There is currently a case in the Netherlands 🇳🇱 calling for cessation of arms to Israel, specifically F-35 parts, that’ll be heard this Monday at The Hague Court of Appeal.
(That last one is related to some news this week where it's leaked that Prime Minister Rutte was seeking advice from the legal affairs ministry if there's any way they can say something that doesn't make it look like Israel isn't committing war crimes)
posted by cendawanita at 8:07 PM on January 26 [7 favorites]
Rashid Khalidi:
You have to win over at least some of the population in the metropole to win a war against a colonial settler project. Every successful liberation movement in history understood that. The Irish understood that perfectly. They did not fight 1916 to 1921 in Dublin and in Cork alone. They fought in New York and in London, politically and militarily. They fought and they won not because they defeated the British army, thought they scored some notable military successes, but because they won over American and British public opinion. The British were war-weary and the Americans were opposed to British policy. That's why the Irish won independence in all but six counties of Ireland in 1921. The same thing is true of Vietnamese, the Algerians, the South Africans, and the Indians before 1947. You don't just fight in Delhi or Johannesburg or Hanoi or Algiers, you have to fight in the metropole. And it's not a military fight— it's a political fight and an information fight. You don't win otherwise, you lose. In fact, in many cases, if you look at those liberation struggles, they were not actually winning in the battlefield at the time that they won political victory; they were stalemated or they were losing.posted by i like crows very much at 8:40 PM on January 26 [12 favorites]
"The Hague District Court ruled that the Netherlands does not have to reassess its export permit for the U.S.-owned parts that are stored at an air force base in the south of the country.
The ruling, only available in Dutch, says the government has “a wide degree of freedom” to determine whether or not to send military goods.
posted by clavdivs at 8:46 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
The ruling, only available in Dutch, says the government has “a wide degree of freedom” to determine whether or not to send military goods.
posted by clavdivs at 8:46 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
The same thing is true of Vietnamese,
"The founding father of modern Vietnam is Ho Chi Minh. He led Vietnam's communist revolution against French colonial rule and then took on the US. But it seems he long had an admiration for the US and repeatedly sought the country's help in the decades before the Vietnam War.
What people might find most surprising is that he once lived in the United States: in Boston and in New York City."
posted by clavdivs at 8:51 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
"The founding father of modern Vietnam is Ho Chi Minh. He led Vietnam's communist revolution against French colonial rule and then took on the US. But it seems he long had an admiration for the US and repeatedly sought the country's help in the decades before the Vietnam War.
What people might find most surprising is that he once lived in the United States: in Boston and in New York City."
posted by clavdivs at 8:51 PM on January 26 [3 favorites]
are all anarchists antisemites?
Yeah, like, dude is arguing with at least four anarchists by my count in this thread if you count me, being like 'Why is Israel the only modern state you want not to exist?' and...um....nope. But this is the problem with making wild ass assumptions like 'everyone who wants the state of Israel not to be a state must be an antisemite'.
Similarly, there's a bunch of people who think that all ethnostates are a problem and shouldn't exist, or all states which privilege members of one religion over another, and just because Israel happens to fall into both categories doesn't make those people antisemites either.
And yep I'm betting there's people who are like 'maybe states that commit genocide just don't get to be states anymore' and that does in fact seem like an extremely valid take and you know what we applied it to Germany for quite some time. Germany stopped being a state and split into two non-sovereign areas, somehow without all the Germans who lived there dying.
posted by corb at 9:21 PM on January 26 [21 favorites]
Yeah, like, dude is arguing with at least four anarchists by my count in this thread if you count me, being like 'Why is Israel the only modern state you want not to exist?' and...um....nope. But this is the problem with making wild ass assumptions like 'everyone who wants the state of Israel not to be a state must be an antisemite'.
Similarly, there's a bunch of people who think that all ethnostates are a problem and shouldn't exist, or all states which privilege members of one religion over another, and just because Israel happens to fall into both categories doesn't make those people antisemites either.
And yep I'm betting there's people who are like 'maybe states that commit genocide just don't get to be states anymore' and that does in fact seem like an extremely valid take and you know what we applied it to Germany for quite some time. Germany stopped being a state and split into two non-sovereign areas, somehow without all the Germans who lived there dying.
posted by corb at 9:21 PM on January 26 [21 favorites]
Germany stopped being a state and split into two non-sovereign areas, somehow without all the Germans who lived there dying.
No, it was with the Germans who didn't live there the problems arose. I don't think we should be looking to German history for ideas on how to move Israel forward from this - a dreadful combination of not doing nearly enough de-Nazification, atrocities and forced population transfers.
Judging by Germany's political choices so far in this, I'm not sure the right lessons were learned.
posted by Audreynachrome at 10:35 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
No, it was with the Germans who didn't live there the problems arose. I don't think we should be looking to German history for ideas on how to move Israel forward from this - a dreadful combination of not doing nearly enough de-Nazification, atrocities and forced population transfers.
Judging by Germany's political choices so far in this, I'm not sure the right lessons were learned.
posted by Audreynachrome at 10:35 PM on January 26 [4 favorites]
Israel, to nobody's astonishment I'm sure, has gone full Hague Schmague.
posted by flabdablet at 10:52 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 10:52 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
Will the veto be activated?
Outlook not so good. Signs point to Yes. Ask again later.
posted by flabdablet at 10:55 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
Outlook not so good. Signs point to Yes. Ask again later.
posted by flabdablet at 10:55 PM on January 26 [2 favorites]
Gaza: ICJ ruling, UN failures, and US complicity | The Chris Hedges Report w/Craig Mokhiber (The Real News Network, YouTube/Piped, 36m37s)
posted by flabdablet at 11:01 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 11:01 PM on January 26 [1 favorite]
Can Israel Ignore World Court's Order? Experts Weigh in on ICJ Genocide Case (Democracy Now!, YouTube/Piped, 19m47s)
posted by flabdablet at 11:06 PM on January 26
posted by flabdablet at 11:06 PM on January 26
Satire: (De Speld; in Dutch) Israël: ‘Oneerlijk om ons te waarschuwen voor genocide als we al zo ver onderweg zijn’ (Israel: 'Unfair to warn us about genocide when we are already so far along')
- In a response, Israel calls the interim verdict 'unfair'. “This warning should have come weeks ago. More than 25,000 people have now died in Gaza, telling statements have been made about the Palestinian people and water, electricity and humanitarian aid have been deliberately cut off. We feel like we don't really get another chance like this.”
---
Back to reality, and turning to the DCIP suit against Biden et al (they did have Josh Paul in to provide testimony, and their work is the source for his cite about a 13-year-old Palestinian boy being raped in Israeli prison) -
(The Nation) Why I Am Testifying in a Lawsuit Charging Biden With Complicity in Genocide by Khaled Quzmar -
This case, and Biden’s complicity, is personal for me as the leader of a Palestinian child-rights organization with staff in Gaza.
My colleague Mohammad Abu Rukbeh, Defense for Children International–Palestine’s senior field researcher, is living in a tent with his family in southern Gaza. Mohammad, who has been documenting child fatalities and injuries in Gaza for two decades, is from Jabalia, in northern Gaza. Since the beginning of Israel’s military offensive, Israeli air strikes have forced Mohammed to relocate his family half a dozen times. At least eight members of Mohammad’s family have been killed, including several young nephews, and last month, an Israeli soldier shot his mother in the leg. She is diabetic and, since Israel has decimated the healthcare system, her leg was amputated.
(Btw, just before news cycle attention was turned to the ICJ ruling, Israel also announced that insulin pens are now banned for entry into Gaza) [Pakistani outlet reporting, mind the tone, but the facts are as I have seen elsewhere]
And: (The Intercept) “I Have Lost Everything”: In Federal Court, Palestinians Accuse Biden of Complicity in Genocide - Bolstered by a momentous ICJ ruling, Palestinians, including Americans, gave three hours of testimony against the Biden administration.
posted by cendawanita at 11:51 PM on January 26 [8 favorites]
- In a response, Israel calls the interim verdict 'unfair'. “This warning should have come weeks ago. More than 25,000 people have now died in Gaza, telling statements have been made about the Palestinian people and water, electricity and humanitarian aid have been deliberately cut off. We feel like we don't really get another chance like this.”
---
Back to reality, and turning to the DCIP suit against Biden et al (they did have Josh Paul in to provide testimony, and their work is the source for his cite about a 13-year-old Palestinian boy being raped in Israeli prison) -
(The Nation) Why I Am Testifying in a Lawsuit Charging Biden With Complicity in Genocide by Khaled Quzmar -
This case, and Biden’s complicity, is personal for me as the leader of a Palestinian child-rights organization with staff in Gaza.
My colleague Mohammad Abu Rukbeh, Defense for Children International–Palestine’s senior field researcher, is living in a tent with his family in southern Gaza. Mohammad, who has been documenting child fatalities and injuries in Gaza for two decades, is from Jabalia, in northern Gaza. Since the beginning of Israel’s military offensive, Israeli air strikes have forced Mohammed to relocate his family half a dozen times. At least eight members of Mohammad’s family have been killed, including several young nephews, and last month, an Israeli soldier shot his mother in the leg. She is diabetic and, since Israel has decimated the healthcare system, her leg was amputated.
(Btw, just before news cycle attention was turned to the ICJ ruling, Israel also announced that insulin pens are now banned for entry into Gaza) [Pakistani outlet reporting, mind the tone, but the facts are as I have seen elsewhere]
And: (The Intercept) “I Have Lost Everything”: In Federal Court, Palestinians Accuse Biden of Complicity in Genocide - Bolstered by a momentous ICJ ruling, Palestinians, including Americans, gave three hours of testimony against the Biden administration.
posted by cendawanita at 11:51 PM on January 26 [8 favorites]
Itamar Mann: To fulfill para 79 of the provisional measures decision, Yoav Gallant, Isaac Herzog, and Israel Katz, at a minimum, must resign immediately and / or face disciplinary measures and / or indictment.
Mark my word, this minimum will not be met.
Para 79: The Court is also of the view that Israel must take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide in relation to members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip.
posted by cendawanita at 12:01 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
Mark my word, this minimum will not be met.
Para 79: The Court is also of the view that Israel must take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide in relation to members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip.
posted by cendawanita at 12:01 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
Well. the UN is a worldwide organization, so it's no surprise that it can produce world class hypocrisy.
So I assume that next South Africa and the World Court will take on China over both Tibet and the Uyghur genocide, along with the ethnic cleansing/genocide currently going on with the Rohingya in Myanmar, and the latest round of Armenian genocide in Nagorno-Karabakh, the Kurds in Turkey and Syria, and ...
(The sound of crickets.)
Given that context, it's not particularly paranoid for Israelis to see this as another run up to finishing what the Nazis started. Considering what happens to religious and ethnic minorities in that region, and the dog whistle of "from the river to the sea", having the World Court pile on is not going to do much to reassure anyone in Israel that they aren't next on the chopping block.
Moral authority is a sham without uniform standards. Unless there is an immediate rush to address the other ongoing genocidal actions going on right now, this just ends up being another propaganda exercise. I'm not holding my breath.
posted by Metacircular at 3:39 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
So I assume that next South Africa and the World Court will take on China over both Tibet and the Uyghur genocide, along with the ethnic cleansing/genocide currently going on with the Rohingya in Myanmar, and the latest round of Armenian genocide in Nagorno-Karabakh, the Kurds in Turkey and Syria, and ...
(The sound of crickets.)
Given that context, it's not particularly paranoid for Israelis to see this as another run up to finishing what the Nazis started. Considering what happens to religious and ethnic minorities in that region, and the dog whistle of "from the river to the sea", having the World Court pile on is not going to do much to reassure anyone in Israel that they aren't next on the chopping block.
Moral authority is a sham without uniform standards. Unless there is an immediate rush to address the other ongoing genocidal actions going on right now, this just ends up being another propaganda exercise. I'm not holding my breath.
posted by Metacircular at 3:39 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
Unless there is an immediate rush to address the other ongoing genocidal actions going on right now, this just ends up being another propaganda exercise.
Nice literal whataboutism you got there.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 3:47 AM on January 27 [15 favorites]
Nice literal whataboutism you got there.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 3:47 AM on January 27 [15 favorites]
Hey, does anyone else who wants Israel to have to change their behaviour due to these provisional measures object to contextually similar provisional measures in regards to the Uyghur or Armenians or Rohingya or Kurds? India? Yemen?
If any of you have the pull to make that happen, please do. Please put UN blue-hats in the NT, if the world deems it necessary.
posted by Audreynachrome at 4:07 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
If any of you have the pull to make that happen, please do. Please put UN blue-hats in the NT, if the world deems it necessary.
posted by Audreynachrome at 4:07 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
and the dog whistle of "from the river to the sea"
I don't get how this is a dog-whistle, since as a Jew I've been using it for decades to describe Greater Israel, which I believe should be "One Nation, from the river to the sea, with liberty and justice for all".
But that's never going to happen with the current government. Giving everyone a vote on "consent of the governed" is a non-starter.
posted by mikelieman at 4:07 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
I don't get how this is a dog-whistle, since as a Jew I've been using it for decades to describe Greater Israel, which I believe should be "One Nation, from the river to the sea, with liberty and justice for all".
But that's never going to happen with the current government. Giving everyone a vote on "consent of the governed" is a non-starter.
posted by mikelieman at 4:07 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
Moral authority is a sham without uniform standards.
I agree, and refer you to both Wilhoit on anti-conservatism and my own comment upthread.
posted by flabdablet at 4:10 AM on January 27 [2 favorites]
I agree, and refer you to both Wilhoit on anti-conservatism and my own comment upthread.
posted by flabdablet at 4:10 AM on January 27 [2 favorites]
Solidarity 😌:
(ToI) Italy joins countries suspending financing for UNRWA
(CBC) Canada pauses funding to UN relief agency over workers' possible role in Oct. 7 attack on Israel
(SMH) Australia to pause $6m aid as UN investigates claim employees participated in October 7 attack
ICJ: "80. The Court further considers that Israel must take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."
Phew! Saved by the wording.
Coincidentally I was noting on fedi:
Jan 2020 NYT headline: "U.N.Court Orders Myanmar to Protect Rohingya Muslims"
Subhead: "The injunction was issued by the International Court of Justice at The Hague, where accusations of genocide have been brought against the Southeast Asian country."
Jan 2024 NYT headline: "U.N.Court Declines to Demand That Israel Stop Its Military Campaign"
Subhead: "The International Court of Justice ruled that Israel must take action to ensure that its military doesn't violate the Genocide Convention, and to let more aid in to Gaza."
2020 ICJ to Myanmar: "79. Bearing in mind Myanmar’s duty to comply with its obligations under the Genocide Convention, the Court considers that, with regard to
the situation described above, Myanmar must, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention, in relation to the members of the Rohingya group in its territory, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention, in particular: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to the members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group."
2024 ICJ order: "78. The Court considers that, with regard to the situation described above, Israel must, in accordance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (d) imposing measures
intended to prevent births within the group. The Court recalls that these acts fall within the scope of Article II of the Convention when they are committed with the intent to destroy in whole or in part a group as such (see paragraph 44 above). The Court further considers that Israel must ensure with immediate effect that its military forces do not commit any of the above-described acts."
The one with the clause "with immediate effect" isn't the one towards Myanmar.
posted by cendawanita at 4:17 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
(ToI) Italy joins countries suspending financing for UNRWA
(CBC) Canada pauses funding to UN relief agency over workers' possible role in Oct. 7 attack on Israel
(SMH) Australia to pause $6m aid as UN investigates claim employees participated in October 7 attack
ICJ: "80. The Court further considers that Israel must take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."
Phew! Saved by the wording.
Coincidentally I was noting on fedi:
Jan 2020 NYT headline: "U.N.Court Orders Myanmar to Protect Rohingya Muslims"
Subhead: "The injunction was issued by the International Court of Justice at The Hague, where accusations of genocide have been brought against the Southeast Asian country."
Jan 2024 NYT headline: "U.N.Court Declines to Demand That Israel Stop Its Military Campaign"
Subhead: "The International Court of Justice ruled that Israel must take action to ensure that its military doesn't violate the Genocide Convention, and to let more aid in to Gaza."
2020 ICJ to Myanmar: "79. Bearing in mind Myanmar’s duty to comply with its obligations under the Genocide Convention, the Court considers that, with regard to
the situation described above, Myanmar must, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention, in relation to the members of the Rohingya group in its territory, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of the Convention, in particular: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to the members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group."
2024 ICJ order: "78. The Court considers that, with regard to the situation described above, Israel must, in accordance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (d) imposing measures
intended to prevent births within the group. The Court recalls that these acts fall within the scope of Article II of the Convention when they are committed with the intent to destroy in whole or in part a group as such (see paragraph 44 above). The Court further considers that Israel must ensure with immediate effect that its military forces do not commit any of the above-described acts."
The one with the clause "with immediate effect" isn't the one towards Myanmar.
posted by cendawanita at 4:17 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
and the dog whistle of "from the river to the sea"
Dang Likud has got a lotta explainin' to do...
posted by cendawanita at 4:19 AM on January 27 [10 favorites]
Dang Likud has got a lotta explainin' to do...
posted by cendawanita at 4:19 AM on January 27 [10 favorites]
I really do want to know some of these things. We have these fights on these threads about the right to exist of the state of Israel, but we rarely have fights over practical matters like whether there should be 0 or 50 or 800 trucks of material aid into Palestine right now. I care a lot less about winning a philosophical battle about states than I do everyone agreeing that there should be 990 trucks a day until every civilian in Gaza is fed.
posted by Audreynachrome at 4:41 AM on January 27 [10 favorites]
posted by Audreynachrome at 4:41 AM on January 27 [10 favorites]
We have these fights on these threads about the right to exist of the state of Israel, but we rarely have fights over practical matters like whether there should be 0 or 50 or 800 trucks of material aid into Palestine right now.
busted_crayons explains how that works.
posted by flabdablet at 4:56 AM on January 27
busted_crayons explains how that works.
posted by flabdablet at 4:56 AM on January 27
Canada 🇨🇦 : “Our support for the ICJ does not mean that we accept the premise of the case brought by South Africa.”
Well of no surprise considering our own genocidal activities in the recent past and our lockstep with the US on these matters I'm deeply shamed and embarrassed for my country.
posted by Mitheral at 5:19 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
Well of no surprise considering our own genocidal activities in the recent past and our lockstep with the US on these matters I'm deeply shamed and embarrassed for my country.
posted by Mitheral at 5:19 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
Mod note: A couple deleted; don't attack other members. (FAQ)
posted by taz (staff) at 5:26 AM on January 27 [2 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 5:26 AM on January 27 [2 favorites]
I'm one of the people who flagged an earlier comment equating criticism of the Palestinian genocide with anti-Semitism, because it's just a pointless bomb in a type of thread that already has problems. But for me:
* criticizing Israeli actions = not anti-Semitic in any way
* calling for the destruction of Israel = pretty damn anti-Semitic
* calling for the end of all nation-states = yeah, that might be nice but ain't happening. Major "scope creep" for this conversation.
* Hamas is terrible and (if true) someone having an "Oct. 7" restaurant is bullshit and should lead to a prison sentence or at least some legal action.
* Deliberately socializing people, especially children, to think that some faceless "other" group is evil and the source of all problems, is morally wrong, whether that group is Israelis, Palestinians, Jews, Muslims, Black Americans, cops, whatever is intellectually dishonest and not helpful, even if it's understandable.
Once people start dying in terrible ways on both sides, the rhetoric just escalates, so you have to solve it with courageous, major political de-escalations and generosity, but right-wing governments and the military are not creative or brave enough to do that most of the time. We need a reconciliation process, and we do NOT need US military aid to Israel (or Saudi Arabia, UAE, whoever) now or ever.
Israel could put together a package on joint control of Jerusalem, two states, path to Palestinian self-government, opening and neutral UN control of all holy sites, end to new settlements, Palestinian governance of settlers in the West Bank, etc. Something bold that would not enrage the world and would show the best side of the Israeli people. The current path just makes anti-Semitism easier for people to rationalize.
Look at how the world views this!
95% of the world are horrible anti-Semites = not believable
95% of the world don't like seeing counterproductive bombing, murder, and racist rhetoric against Palestinians = there's your non-paranoid Occam's Razor answer right there.
posted by caviar2d2 at 5:36 AM on January 27 [3 favorites]
* criticizing Israeli actions = not anti-Semitic in any way
* calling for the destruction of Israel = pretty damn anti-Semitic
* calling for the end of all nation-states = yeah, that might be nice but ain't happening. Major "scope creep" for this conversation.
* Hamas is terrible and (if true) someone having an "Oct. 7" restaurant is bullshit and should lead to a prison sentence or at least some legal action.
* Deliberately socializing people, especially children, to think that some faceless "other" group is evil and the source of all problems, is morally wrong, whether that group is Israelis, Palestinians, Jews, Muslims, Black Americans, cops, whatever is intellectually dishonest and not helpful, even if it's understandable.
Once people start dying in terrible ways on both sides, the rhetoric just escalates, so you have to solve it with courageous, major political de-escalations and generosity, but right-wing governments and the military are not creative or brave enough to do that most of the time. We need a reconciliation process, and we do NOT need US military aid to Israel (or Saudi Arabia, UAE, whoever) now or ever.
Israel could put together a package on joint control of Jerusalem, two states, path to Palestinian self-government, opening and neutral UN control of all holy sites, end to new settlements, Palestinian governance of settlers in the West Bank, etc. Something bold that would not enrage the world and would show the best side of the Israeli people. The current path just makes anti-Semitism easier for people to rationalize.
Look at how the world views this!
95% of the world are horrible anti-Semites = not believable
95% of the world don't like seeing counterproductive bombing, murder, and racist rhetoric against Palestinians = there's your non-paranoid Occam's Razor answer right there.
posted by caviar2d2 at 5:36 AM on January 27 [3 favorites]
Israel could put together a package on joint control of Jerusalem, two states, path to Palestinian self-government, opening and neutral UN control of all holy sites, end to new settlements, Palestinian governance of settlers in the West Bank, etc. Something bold that would not enrage the world and would show the best side of the Israeli people. The current path just makes anti-Semitism easier for people to rationalize.Netanyahu is a genocidal monster who should be in the Hague, but at least on the issue of the existence of a Palestinian state he has been accurately reflecting the opinion of the majority of the people that are have been allowed to vote in Israel for the last couple decades.
Demographics suggest that secular Israelis are going to be be a smaller fraction of the people allowed to vote in Israel in the future which is a problem because they've been the main base of support for the peace process.
I don't see how Palestinian statehood happens in the foreseeable future except through the US allowing it to be imposed on Israel by the UN or through Israel losing a war.
posted by zymil at 6:49 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
So all those countries who suspended UNWRA funding, for 7 members of their staff potentially being involved in the war crime of Oct 7........will SURELY suspend funding for arms to Israel for the IDF's shooting of unarmed hostages waving a white flag, or the old guy walking down the street with the white flag, or any other of a dozen absolutely Prima Facie war crimes that have been captured on film? cough.
(this is ignoring the vaster amount of war crimes by IDF that are conducted but the funders of the IDF would not consider as such).
posted by lalochezia at 7:12 AM on January 27 [14 favorites]
(this is ignoring the vaster amount of war crimes by IDF that are conducted but the funders of the IDF would not consider as such).
posted by lalochezia at 7:12 AM on January 27 [14 favorites]
Secular Israelis have been moving out since before Oct 7, and honestly that trend will likely continue as the Israeli government and public mood has made it very difficult for dissenters against the war to be open about their beliefs for fear of being harassed or jailed for expressing any sympathy with Palestinians.
Palestinians in Gaza do not have the luxury of choice. They are being starved, both by the Israeli government and the Israeli citizens who are blocking food aid from entering Gaza.
You will excuse me if I don’t have any particular sympathy for the argument that criticizing these types of actions is anti-Semitic. I actually have family who are Palestinian. I have a husband who is Palestinian American and I do not comment for the most part on these threads other than providing links because it constantly gets derailed by these semantic arguments that have no bearing on the actual facts on the ground. MeFi should do some introspection on whether they can actually make space for Arab and Muslim voices without being shouted down, to allow them to speak without having to make disclaimers all the time about whether or not they support Hamas, or whether they have Jewish friends to back up the things they say and their realities. We do not demand this of other ethnic groups. Why is it that young journalists in Gaza being forced to live-stream their own demise isn’t good enough to make any change in what’s happening to them?
The actual facts: Israel, the government, with the support of a majority of its citizens, is committing a genocide against the Palestinian people, with the backing and the apparently unconditional support of the US President and the majority of the US government, if not the actual people, and it has been going on long before October 7.
posted by toastyk at 7:21 AM on January 27 [39 favorites]
Palestinians in Gaza do not have the luxury of choice. They are being starved, both by the Israeli government and the Israeli citizens who are blocking food aid from entering Gaza.
You will excuse me if I don’t have any particular sympathy for the argument that criticizing these types of actions is anti-Semitic. I actually have family who are Palestinian. I have a husband who is Palestinian American and I do not comment for the most part on these threads other than providing links because it constantly gets derailed by these semantic arguments that have no bearing on the actual facts on the ground. MeFi should do some introspection on whether they can actually make space for Arab and Muslim voices without being shouted down, to allow them to speak without having to make disclaimers all the time about whether or not they support Hamas, or whether they have Jewish friends to back up the things they say and their realities. We do not demand this of other ethnic groups. Why is it that young journalists in Gaza being forced to live-stream their own demise isn’t good enough to make any change in what’s happening to them?
The actual facts: Israel, the government, with the support of a majority of its citizens, is committing a genocide against the Palestinian people, with the backing and the apparently unconditional support of the US President and the majority of the US government, if not the actual people, and it has been going on long before October 7.
posted by toastyk at 7:21 AM on January 27 [39 favorites]
Mod note: A few more comments removed. Please avoid getting into back and forth points of order with other members, it ultimately just derails the conversation.
This is sensitive topic, please be mindful of what you're bringing to this conversation and how it may perceived. Don't inflame an already heated topic.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:27 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
This is sensitive topic, please be mindful of what you're bringing to this conversation and how it may perceived. Don't inflame an already heated topic.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:27 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
Sane New Zealanders are in sympathy with Canadians Mitheral,
"By agreeing to send an NZDF team to the Red Sea without demanding the US end its opposition to a ceasefire in Gaza, the New Zealand government seems to have retreated from an independent foreign policy based on principles and values."
We have a new government performing a constant volte face against anything decent, govt is a three-way coalition of Israel right-or-wrong Christian Dominionists & Catholic Integralists, plus some hard-baked libertarians. They have said nothing meaningful about the Israeli Govt. genocide.
We will probably need a literal revolt to push them out, the PM is particularly vile, just a hateful man.
posted by unearthed at 11:04 AM on January 27 [9 favorites]
"By agreeing to send an NZDF team to the Red Sea without demanding the US end its opposition to a ceasefire in Gaza, the New Zealand government seems to have retreated from an independent foreign policy based on principles and values."
We have a new government performing a constant volte face against anything decent, govt is a three-way coalition of Israel right-or-wrong Christian Dominionists & Catholic Integralists, plus some hard-baked libertarians. They have said nothing meaningful about the Israeli Govt. genocide.
We will probably need a literal revolt to push them out, the PM is particularly vile, just a hateful man.
posted by unearthed at 11:04 AM on January 27 [9 favorites]
The actual facts: Israel, the government, with the support of a majority of its citizens, is committing a genocide against the Palestinian people, with the backing and the apparently unconditional support of the US President and the majority of the US government, if not the actual people, and it has been going on long before October 7.
Hell: you don't have to listen to the Palestinians themselves, or to critics of Israel. Just listen to Israel itself. They're saying it too.
That's what makes the 'debate' so frustrating at this point. It can no longer be debated in good faith whether an extermination is taking place. It is happening, what Palestinians remain are screaming that it's happening, what journalists haven't been killed yet are all reporting that it's happening, and Israel is clearly explaining to the world how it is happening and will continue to happen and they don't give a damn what anyone else thinks about that.
There are those who are still willing to say "this extermination is justifiable for the following reasons, no matter what the rest of the world may say," and there are those that are not. That is the new field of debate.
posted by delfin at 11:10 AM on January 27 [24 favorites]
Hell: you don't have to listen to the Palestinians themselves, or to critics of Israel. Just listen to Israel itself. They're saying it too.
That's what makes the 'debate' so frustrating at this point. It can no longer be debated in good faith whether an extermination is taking place. It is happening, what Palestinians remain are screaming that it's happening, what journalists haven't been killed yet are all reporting that it's happening, and Israel is clearly explaining to the world how it is happening and will continue to happen and they don't give a damn what anyone else thinks about that.
There are those who are still willing to say "this extermination is justifiable for the following reasons, no matter what the rest of the world may say," and there are those that are not. That is the new field of debate.
posted by delfin at 11:10 AM on January 27 [24 favorites]
Via Steve Herman of Voice of American on Mastodon:
posted by bcd at 12:54 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
On background and attributable to a State DepartmentUnderwhelming.
spokesperson:
- The United States recognizes that the International Court of Justice plays a vital role in the peaceful settlement of disputes.
- We have consistently made clear that Israel must take all take all possible steps to minimize civilian harm, increase the flow of humanitarian assistance, and address dehumanizing rhetoric.
- The court's ruling is also consistent with our view that Israel has the right to take action to ensure the terrorist attacks of October 7 cannot be repeated, in accordance with international law.
- We continue to believe that allegations of genocide are unfounded and note the court did not make a finding about genocide or call for a ceasefire in its ruling and that it called for the unconditional, immediate release of all hostages being held by Hamas.
- We will continue to monitor this proceeding as it moves forward.
posted by bcd at 12:54 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
To paraphrase a sentence about John MacAfee, that State Department statement feels very “Israel’s government has not been found guilty of genocide, but, crucially, not in the same way that you or I have not been found guilty of genocide.”
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:19 AM on January 28 [8 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:19 AM on January 28 [8 favorites]
972mag had a good piece a couple of days ago on the Israeli crackdown on protests that dare to suggest even the mildest support for Palestinians, with lots of details about wrongful arrests, violence from both police and citizens, activists using "jumping protests" to stay ahead of the cops, and Israeli courts mostly rubber-stamping the crackdown:
Israeli police repressing anti-war protests with ‘iron fist,’ say activists
It includes quotes from protesters and also links this article from last month about increased beatings of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons:
“I was in prison for many years,” Qadura Fares, the head of the Palestinian Authority’s Commission for Detainees’ Affairs, told +972. “There was never anything like this. I heard things that I cannot believe.”
According to Amjad a-Najjar from the Palestinian Prisoners’ Society, since October 7, the IPS has confiscated inmates’ televisions, radios, electronic devices, clothes, shoes, medications, books, and stationery. “Ben Gvir has declared war against the prisoners,” he said. “The tools of communication are batons and beatings."
posted by mediareport at 3:16 AM on January 28 [8 favorites]
Israeli police repressing anti-war protests with ‘iron fist,’ say activists
It includes quotes from protesters and also links this article from last month about increased beatings of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons:
“I was in prison for many years,” Qadura Fares, the head of the Palestinian Authority’s Commission for Detainees’ Affairs, told +972. “There was never anything like this. I heard things that I cannot believe.”
According to Amjad a-Najjar from the Palestinian Prisoners’ Society, since October 7, the IPS has confiscated inmates’ televisions, radios, electronic devices, clothes, shoes, medications, books, and stationery. “Ben Gvir has declared war against the prisoners,” he said. “The tools of communication are batons and beatings."
posted by mediareport at 3:16 AM on January 28 [8 favorites]
Jacobin: Why Israel’s War Is Genocide — and Why Biden Is Culpable
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:59 AM on January 28 [4 favorites]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:59 AM on January 28 [4 favorites]
After the ICC ruling, in which Israel has been ordered to stop killing Palestinians and stop starving them, 8 countries, led by the US and Israel, have decided to pause funding for UNRWA, the main agency that is currently supporting Palestinians in Gaza, due to allegations from Israel that some of its staff may have been involved with Hamas. If you feel so inclined, you can donate directly to UNRWA here. The UNRWA chief calls the decision “collective punishment” of the Palestinians and urges all states to restore funding.
At least 165 have been killed since. Turkey has urged the countries to reconsider funding the organization. Israeli protesters continue to try to block food aid from entering Gaza.
Palestinian perspectives:
What does it mean to be Palestinian now?
The Right to Speak for Ourselves
On Zionist feelings
Abu Marzouk, a leader of Hamas, “throws down the gauntlet”:
Since 2015 Hamas has accepted the jurisdiction of and cooperated with the on-going investigation by the International Criminal Court into Israel and Palestinian resistance movements, including our own. Israel has not. Since 2015 Hamas has repeatedly expressed its interest in appearing before and being judged by the ICC not on the basis of unsubstantiated allegations and screams but evidence and facts. Israel has not.
This could be resolved quickly and easily. Hamas stands ready to appear before the ICC with witnesses and live testimony and bear the burden of any judicial finding against it or its members after a full and fair trial with rules of evidence; with examination and cross examination into we have done or not over the many years of our leadership as a national liberation movement. Is Israel?
posted by toastyk at 7:51 AM on January 28 [7 favorites]
At least 165 have been killed since. Turkey has urged the countries to reconsider funding the organization. Israeli protesters continue to try to block food aid from entering Gaza.
Palestinian perspectives:
What does it mean to be Palestinian now?
The Right to Speak for Ourselves
On Zionist feelings
Abu Marzouk, a leader of Hamas, “throws down the gauntlet”:
Since 2015 Hamas has accepted the jurisdiction of and cooperated with the on-going investigation by the International Criminal Court into Israel and Palestinian resistance movements, including our own. Israel has not. Since 2015 Hamas has repeatedly expressed its interest in appearing before and being judged by the ICC not on the basis of unsubstantiated allegations and screams but evidence and facts. Israel has not.
This could be resolved quickly and easily. Hamas stands ready to appear before the ICC with witnesses and live testimony and bear the burden of any judicial finding against it or its members after a full and fair trial with rules of evidence; with examination and cross examination into we have done or not over the many years of our leadership as a national liberation movement. Is Israel?
posted by toastyk at 7:51 AM on January 28 [7 favorites]
I know I helped to contribute to the dynamic where the threads are somewhat a catch-all for the regional politics but I'm sharing here because it's breaking (about a few mins ago) but if this worsens with further implications to the US/West, can I request we take that to a separate FPP? In the meantime:
Three US troops killed in drone attack in Jordan
In the meantime, a December piece from Times of Israel is making the rounds that pretty much detailed Israel's long-term plans with regards to UNRWA: Israel hoping to push UNRWA out of Gaza post-war — report - Foreign Ministry document detailing gradual plan to be presented to cabinet in near future
According to the report, the document recommends three stages to the move. The first involves a comprehensive report on alleged UNRWA cooperation with Hamas, which rules Gaza, and the entanglement of the UN body that provides welfare and humanitarian services for Palestinian refugees from the 1948 and 1967 wars and their descendants, with the terror group.
The next stage would see reduced UNRWA operations in the Palestinian enclave, amid a search for a different organization to provide education and welfare services. In the third stage, according to the report, all of UNRWA’s duties would be transferred to the body governing Gaza following the war.
Small housekeeping: nitter dev seems to be on track to abandonment so we're on borrowed time with providing mirrors to tweets.
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 AM on January 28 [11 favorites]
Three US troops killed in drone attack in Jordan
In the meantime, a December piece from Times of Israel is making the rounds that pretty much detailed Israel's long-term plans with regards to UNRWA: Israel hoping to push UNRWA out of Gaza post-war — report - Foreign Ministry document detailing gradual plan to be presented to cabinet in near future
According to the report, the document recommends three stages to the move. The first involves a comprehensive report on alleged UNRWA cooperation with Hamas, which rules Gaza, and the entanglement of the UN body that provides welfare and humanitarian services for Palestinian refugees from the 1948 and 1967 wars and their descendants, with the terror group.
The next stage would see reduced UNRWA operations in the Palestinian enclave, amid a search for a different organization to provide education and welfare services. In the third stage, according to the report, all of UNRWA’s duties would be transferred to the body governing Gaza following the war.
Small housekeeping: nitter dev seems to be on track to abandonment so we're on borrowed time with providing mirrors to tweets.
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 AM on January 28 [11 favorites]
I really need everyone to understand how central the Palestinian right of return is to this conflict. Every "two-state" proposal ever floated has foundered on the rocks of that right; every single one has proposed that a "token number" of exiles be permitted to return (usually like 100,000) in return for every other Palestinian exile worldwide permanently forgoing repatriation.
That fact is the whole reason that Israel hates the UNRWA,which was created specifically to assist Palestinian refugees, and which, among other things, maintains the registry of everyone with the right of repatriation.
In this context, it's somewhat useful that Noga Arbell, a former Israeli official, has been saying the quiet part loud, both in the Knesset and on Twitter. The above tweet reads:
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:39 AM on January 28 [21 favorites]
That fact is the whole reason that Israel hates the UNRWA,which was created specifically to assist Palestinian refugees, and which, among other things, maintains the registry of everyone with the right of repatriation.
In this context, it's somewhat useful that Noga Arbell, a former Israeli official, has been saying the quiet part loud, both in the Knesset and on Twitter. The above tweet reads:
We DO know UNRWA is the right of return. Thats what makes it genocidal. Thats how they justify their brainwashing of innocent children to become dead terrorists.Israelis regard it as an existential threat to the state of Israel that stateless Palestinian exiles have not been forced to "move on" and cease regarding themselves as a single people in (enforced) diaspora. I invite you to consider the bone-deep, soul-destroying irony of this.
Its a fictitious, made up idea no one else in the world has, which has kept generations enslaved to property, even their ancestors had no claim to, and those original unsuccessful thieves have mostly passed away.
So it is makes no sense and serves no justice to keep their great-grandchildren impoverished and destitute as you try to push them into killing the rightful owners. They should really be allowed to move on with their lives at this point.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:39 AM on January 28 [21 favorites]
I invite you to consider the bone-deep, soul-destroying irony of this.
I see no irony as the UNRWA has fired those 'allegedly involved' and launched an investigation, on their own.
"The big picture: UNRWA has fired the accused staffers and launched an investigation. The head of UNRWA warned on Saturday that "lifesaving assistance is about to end" due to nine countries' decision to suspend funding."
I applaud the ridding of alleged UN workers who paricipate in illegal warfare but there is no way all could be involved. I think the evidence is there if the agency already fired the workers. I think it's a good first step and good faith and restoring this vital agency to getting supplies into Gaza. I also think Israel will capitalize on this for reasons that seem quite evident.
I do have a suggestion since we warned Iran about an ISIS attack, I think it would be all right if we ask Iran to cover those funds until this investigation can pull through and then we can reimburse them.
posted by clavdivs at 1:05 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]
I see no irony as the UNRWA has fired those 'allegedly involved' and launched an investigation, on their own.
"The big picture: UNRWA has fired the accused staffers and launched an investigation. The head of UNRWA warned on Saturday that "lifesaving assistance is about to end" due to nine countries' decision to suspend funding."
I applaud the ridding of alleged UN workers who paricipate in illegal warfare but there is no way all could be involved. I think the evidence is there if the agency already fired the workers. I think it's a good first step and good faith and restoring this vital agency to getting supplies into Gaza. I also think Israel will capitalize on this for reasons that seem quite evident.
I do have a suggestion since we warned Iran about an ISIS attack, I think it would be all right if we ask Iran to cover those funds until this investigation can pull through and then we can reimburse them.
posted by clavdivs at 1:05 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]
Nancy Pelosi: Protesters calling for a ceasefire in Gaza "is Mr. Putin's message... Make no mistake, this is directly connected to what he would like to see...
"I think some of these protesters are spontaneous and organic and sincere. Some I think are connected to Russia."
The former House Speaker called for an FBI investigation into the financing behind some of the ‘cease-fire now’ demonstrations.
(Jacob N. Kornbluh, Twitter)
The tone-deafness will continue until morale improves.
posted by delfin at 1:08 PM on January 28 [12 favorites]
"I think some of these protesters are spontaneous and organic and sincere. Some I think are connected to Russia."
The former House Speaker called for an FBI investigation into the financing behind some of the ‘cease-fire now’ demonstrations.
(Jacob N. Kornbluh, Twitter)
The tone-deafness will continue until morale improves.
posted by delfin at 1:08 PM on January 28 [12 favorites]
So I've been thinking about something, while reading comments above about what the slogan 'from the river to the sea' "really means", and it relates to adrienneleigh's comment above about the importance of the right to return.
In 1992, Eddie Koiki Mabo and other people from the Torres Strait island of Mer were successful in getting the Australian High Court to recognise Native Title, overturning the doctrine of terra nullius and gaining legal recognition for indigenous land rights in Australia.
"Mabo argued that, despite the state’s claim to sovereignty, he and his people retained ownership over the land. The basis of this argument is the well-known reality that Australia was not uninhabited at the time of colonisation. To maintain a law based on this outdated fiction would be unjust." (Source)
And here's the Australian Prime Minister on a news program in 1996, waving a map of Australia and declaring that 78% of the land mass was under threat from Native Title. This kind of claim was widespread across the establishment at the time. "Mining companies asserted that a “flood” of land claims would inhibit mining in Australia contrary to the national interest. The Australian Mining Industry Council (now the Minerals Council of Australia) took out full-page advertisements to that effect. Adding to the panic, Victorian Premier Jeff Kennett claimed that Australian backyards were under threat from Aboriginal land claims – he has since admitted he was wrong." (Source)
The weaponisation of this fear - that what the settler colony had done to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people would be done back to the settler colony - was so effective that Howard stayed in power for 11 years, and set back justice on a range of issues in Australia for much, much longer.
So yeah, I've been thinking about this and what 'from the river to the sea' "really means", while remembering the Nakba and the Naksa and items a. and b. in the original Likud party policy platform, while noticing, as I've said here before, that people talk about the responsibilities of the 'Arab states' to take Gazans as refugees but don't mention the right of return to Israel for displaced Gazans and all Palestinians, while reading the reports above that ordinary Israelis are taking the time to go down to Kerem Shalom and block aid trucks, while reading June Jordan's poetry ("One hundred and thirty-five thousand
Palestinians in Beirut and why
didn’t you take the hint?
Go!
There was the Mediterranean: You
could walk into the water and stay
there.
What was the problem?"), and while listening to this interview with Naomi Klein on the Jewish Currents podcast On the Nose from November last year. The interviewer and Klein unpack "the way in which Zionism projects everything that it cannot bear to see about itself onto the Palestinian other."
Arielle Angel (interviewer): "You have a beautiful way of thinking about the way that denial of settler colonialism works in settler colonial societies. You’ve been reckoning with this in the Canadian context, in light of the truth process that has happened there around the Indigenous genocide in North America (and in Canada specifically). You quote Julian Brave NoiseCat in basically noticing that all of the ways in which right-wing conspiracy theories operate actually describe policies towards Indigenous people. You know, the idea of replacement theory being manifest destiny, and the idea of “plandemic” as actually the smallpox and alcoholism, a fantasy of mass-institutionalized child abuse and QAnon being actually something that happened in boarding and residential schools for Native children. And you use this noticing as a platform to talk about what we’re afraid of, or why we feel we have to deny that these things happen. Are we afraid of what we’ve seen about the capacity for this kind of violence, on the one hand, and then also, quote, “Are we terrified that if the truths of the shadow lands, past, present and future, are ever fully revealed and reckoned with, then it can only result in a dramatic role reversal with the victims becoming the victimizers, wherein essentially, we did it to them, and if we take the boot off their neck, the only response would be to do it to us?”
Klein says: "... there’s so much projection going on in the Zionist narrative, where it’s like: We must commit massive ethnic cleansing, or else they will do it to us. And it’s this constant claim that Israelis are the ones who face imminent ethnic cleansing, being pushed into the sea, and that terror is used to literally attempt to liquidate Gaza.
AA: And to push people in the West Bank off of their land. I mean, that has accelerated so dramatically in the last three weeks.
NK: And so, the horror of the founding of the State of Israel has always been so impossible for the Zionist project to look at directly. And this is what [Caroline] Rooney means by doppelganger politics: Everything that can’t be seen about the self must be projected onto the double... the inability to look at the reality of the violence of the Nakba is so foundational, that projecting onto the evil twin Palestinian, who is accused of wanting to do what Israel actually did—to ethnically cleanse. All of this gets massively reinvigorated through October 7. Now we’re hearing these stories over, and over, and over again on a loop—that actually, genocide is being perpetuated on Jews right now, as the Israeli military engages in ethnic cleansing, announces its intent to commit genocide. It’s very particular to how trauma is turned into a weapon."
posted by happyfrog at 1:31 PM on January 28 [19 favorites]
In 1992, Eddie Koiki Mabo and other people from the Torres Strait island of Mer were successful in getting the Australian High Court to recognise Native Title, overturning the doctrine of terra nullius and gaining legal recognition for indigenous land rights in Australia.
"Mabo argued that, despite the state’s claim to sovereignty, he and his people retained ownership over the land. The basis of this argument is the well-known reality that Australia was not uninhabited at the time of colonisation. To maintain a law based on this outdated fiction would be unjust." (Source)
And here's the Australian Prime Minister on a news program in 1996, waving a map of Australia and declaring that 78% of the land mass was under threat from Native Title. This kind of claim was widespread across the establishment at the time. "Mining companies asserted that a “flood” of land claims would inhibit mining in Australia contrary to the national interest. The Australian Mining Industry Council (now the Minerals Council of Australia) took out full-page advertisements to that effect. Adding to the panic, Victorian Premier Jeff Kennett claimed that Australian backyards were under threat from Aboriginal land claims – he has since admitted he was wrong." (Source)
The weaponisation of this fear - that what the settler colony had done to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people would be done back to the settler colony - was so effective that Howard stayed in power for 11 years, and set back justice on a range of issues in Australia for much, much longer.
So yeah, I've been thinking about this and what 'from the river to the sea' "really means", while remembering the Nakba and the Naksa and items a. and b. in the original Likud party policy platform, while noticing, as I've said here before, that people talk about the responsibilities of the 'Arab states' to take Gazans as refugees but don't mention the right of return to Israel for displaced Gazans and all Palestinians, while reading the reports above that ordinary Israelis are taking the time to go down to Kerem Shalom and block aid trucks, while reading June Jordan's poetry ("One hundred and thirty-five thousand
Palestinians in Beirut and why
didn’t you take the hint?
Go!
There was the Mediterranean: You
could walk into the water and stay
there.
What was the problem?"), and while listening to this interview with Naomi Klein on the Jewish Currents podcast On the Nose from November last year. The interviewer and Klein unpack "the way in which Zionism projects everything that it cannot bear to see about itself onto the Palestinian other."
Arielle Angel (interviewer): "You have a beautiful way of thinking about the way that denial of settler colonialism works in settler colonial societies. You’ve been reckoning with this in the Canadian context, in light of the truth process that has happened there around the Indigenous genocide in North America (and in Canada specifically). You quote Julian Brave NoiseCat in basically noticing that all of the ways in which right-wing conspiracy theories operate actually describe policies towards Indigenous people. You know, the idea of replacement theory being manifest destiny, and the idea of “plandemic” as actually the smallpox and alcoholism, a fantasy of mass-institutionalized child abuse and QAnon being actually something that happened in boarding and residential schools for Native children. And you use this noticing as a platform to talk about what we’re afraid of, or why we feel we have to deny that these things happen. Are we afraid of what we’ve seen about the capacity for this kind of violence, on the one hand, and then also, quote, “Are we terrified that if the truths of the shadow lands, past, present and future, are ever fully revealed and reckoned with, then it can only result in a dramatic role reversal with the victims becoming the victimizers, wherein essentially, we did it to them, and if we take the boot off their neck, the only response would be to do it to us?”
Klein says: "... there’s so much projection going on in the Zionist narrative, where it’s like: We must commit massive ethnic cleansing, or else they will do it to us. And it’s this constant claim that Israelis are the ones who face imminent ethnic cleansing, being pushed into the sea, and that terror is used to literally attempt to liquidate Gaza.
AA: And to push people in the West Bank off of their land. I mean, that has accelerated so dramatically in the last three weeks.
NK: And so, the horror of the founding of the State of Israel has always been so impossible for the Zionist project to look at directly. And this is what [Caroline] Rooney means by doppelganger politics: Everything that can’t be seen about the self must be projected onto the double... the inability to look at the reality of the violence of the Nakba is so foundational, that projecting onto the evil twin Palestinian, who is accused of wanting to do what Israel actually did—to ethnically cleanse. All of this gets massively reinvigorated through October 7. Now we’re hearing these stories over, and over, and over again on a loop—that actually, genocide is being perpetuated on Jews right now, as the Israeli military engages in ethnic cleansing, announces its intent to commit genocide. It’s very particular to how trauma is turned into a weapon."
posted by happyfrog at 1:31 PM on January 28 [19 favorites]
clavdivs: i don't mean the irony of firing UNRWA workers with no evidence; that's not irony, it's just genocidal bullshit as usual. I mean the irony of Israel, which insists that its entire raison d'être is to provide a safe home for the Jewish people, claiming that another diasporic oppressed people is an existential threat.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:53 PM on January 28 [8 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:53 PM on January 28 [8 favorites]
happyfrog: flagged as fantastic. thank you so much.
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:03 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:03 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
claiming that another diasporic oppressed people is an existential threat.
A population that in large part was dispersed by Israel.
posted by Mitheral at 6:17 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
A population that in large part was dispersed by Israel.
posted by Mitheral at 6:17 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
related to what Klein says in the interview, here's Mohammed El-Kurd in the article toastyk linked upthread:
Such details are not minor. In situating the Holocaust outside of history, in placing it not just in the past but in an eternal future, Zionism today has created a status quo in which the possibility of a second holocaust is given primacy over a holocaust happening in the present. I am certain some readers will find those previous lines uncomfortable or even incendiary, but that is precisely the point: Language comparing Zionists to Nazis is scrutinized—even penalized—more than the government policies and military actions that beg for the analogy to be made.
Distracting questions—“Can Zionism mean different things?”; “Is anti-Zionism antisemitism?”—feed the discursive loop that prioritizes a conjectural “day after” over the material present. But here, in the present, there are more pressing questions: What are the mental and muscular consequences of being forced to transform a taxi into a hearse? What becomes of the nurse whose shift is interrupted by the arrival of her husband’s corpse on a stretcher? What about the father carrying what remains of his son in two separate plastic bags? What happens to him after all of this death, once he is alone and away from the cameras? What kind of man will the boy carrying his brother’s limbs in a bag grow up to be?
posted by busted_crayons at 6:40 PM on January 28 [8 favorites]
Such details are not minor. In situating the Holocaust outside of history, in placing it not just in the past but in an eternal future, Zionism today has created a status quo in which the possibility of a second holocaust is given primacy over a holocaust happening in the present. I am certain some readers will find those previous lines uncomfortable or even incendiary, but that is precisely the point: Language comparing Zionists to Nazis is scrutinized—even penalized—more than the government policies and military actions that beg for the analogy to be made.
Distracting questions—“Can Zionism mean different things?”; “Is anti-Zionism antisemitism?”—feed the discursive loop that prioritizes a conjectural “day after” over the material present. But here, in the present, there are more pressing questions: What are the mental and muscular consequences of being forced to transform a taxi into a hearse? What becomes of the nurse whose shift is interrupted by the arrival of her husband’s corpse on a stretcher? What about the father carrying what remains of his son in two separate plastic bags? What happens to him after all of this death, once he is alone and away from the cameras? What kind of man will the boy carrying his brother’s limbs in a bag grow up to be?
posted by busted_crayons at 6:40 PM on January 28 [8 favorites]
Ah. I see. it's just genocidal bullshit as usual that the workers were fired? I don't think you meant that but as Israeli continuing the same old tactic of aid and relief denial or delay or just enough. because everyone going to kill us so the U.S. and others and there are lots of others, have to not only help Israeli and feel good about it (complicit) but help set up a military industrial complex that exports weapons technology. for example the recent brouhaha with Australia concerning weapons contracts because Australia is not going to be selling weapons to Israel it' was going to be vice versa.
that actually, genocide is being perpetuated on Jews right now, as the Israeli military engages in ethnic cleansing, announces its intent to commit genocide. It’s very particular to how trauma is turned into a weapon."
that's a thought. interesting. I think it's very good on a symbolic scale especially considering trauma and the helplessness that Israeli citizens who oppose this massacre feel. helpless if not singled out, ridicule etc. but in the true meaning we would have to go to the genocide rule book again and if this were actually true,would fall under the category, that's really not well defined, of autogenicide made famous by the Cambodian genocide. essentially the one criteria would be the targeting and mass killing through starvation and disease of its own citizens. in cambodia's case almost everyone. the mitigating factor may be S-21 and other centers that were primarily designed to execute those who perpetratd the genocide orwere considered enemies of the state because they were informed upon.
Angka did not discriminate.
posted by clavdivs at 6:48 PM on January 28
that actually, genocide is being perpetuated on Jews right now, as the Israeli military engages in ethnic cleansing, announces its intent to commit genocide. It’s very particular to how trauma is turned into a weapon."
that's a thought. interesting. I think it's very good on a symbolic scale especially considering trauma and the helplessness that Israeli citizens who oppose this massacre feel. helpless if not singled out, ridicule etc. but in the true meaning we would have to go to the genocide rule book again and if this were actually true,would fall under the category, that's really not well defined, of autogenicide made famous by the Cambodian genocide. essentially the one criteria would be the targeting and mass killing through starvation and disease of its own citizens. in cambodia's case almost everyone. the mitigating factor may be S-21 and other centers that were primarily designed to execute those who perpetratd the genocide orwere considered enemies of the state because they were informed upon.
Angka did not discriminate.
posted by clavdivs at 6:48 PM on January 28
The world is truly upside down that I'm seeing tankies and assadists defend the UN.
posted by cendawanita at 8:59 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:59 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
The enemy of my enemy is not always my most pressing enemy.
posted by flabdablet at 9:16 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 9:16 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]
I keep finding myself thinking about this article from a couple years back about post-apartheid South Africa, and the visceral feel of the observation that a lot of white South Africans kind of never forgave the rest of the country for forgiving them, and I wonder if that's the sort of thing that might wind up being a (potential) dynamic here as well.
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:24 PM on January 28 [7 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:24 PM on January 28 [7 favorites]
*breaks the glass on the Surely This Bush-era meme*
CNN: CNN video shows Palestinian detainees blindfolded and barefoot in Israel near Gaza border
- same embedded team that did the cemetery desecration story. Jeremy Diamond estimates about two dozen of them and they looked physically exhausted.
(AP) Embattled UN agency warns its aid operation in Gaza is ‘collapsing’ over a wave of funding cuts
The emerging deal also calls for Israel to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza.
CIA director Bill Burns is expected to discuss the contours of the emerging agreement when he meets Sunday in France with David Barnea, the head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency, Qatari Prime Minister Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani, and Egyptian intelligence chief Abbas Kamel for talks centered on the hostage negotiations.
Despite the apparent progress, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reiterated in a televised news conference late Saturday that the war would continue until “complete victory,” including crushing Hamas. - the video up top also stated that people are currently milling animal fodder because they can't get flour.
In Israel:
- (Dissent) A Historic Junction - The Israeli left after October 7. - interview with Sally Abed, Yael Berda, and Eli Cook.
In the West:
(NYT) Black Pastors Pressure Biden to Call for a Cease-Fire in Gaza
This Sahara Reporters piece is a repost/summary.
(The Intercept) New York Times Puts “Daily” Episode on Ice Amid Internal Firestorm Over Hamas Sexual Violence Article
Many reporters and editors understood that directive to be a reference to an intense internal debate unfolding over the story — a rolling fight that is revived on a near-daily basis over the tenor of Times coverage of the war in Gaza. (A Times spokesperson, Charlie Stadtlander, said those assumptions were inaccurate, and that the email was “a release of a company-wide policy, the deliberate and measured development of which began in the beginning of 2023.”)
As criticism of Gettleman’s story grew both internally and externally, producers at “The Daily” shelved the original script and paused the episode, according to newsroom sources familiar with the process. A new script was drafted, one that offered major caveats, allowed for uncertainty, and asked open-ended questions that were absent from the original article, which presented its findings as definitive evidence of the systematic use of sexual violence as a weapon of war.
That new draft remains the subject of significant controversy and has yet to be aired on the flagship podcast. The producers and the paper of record find themselves in a jam: run a version that hews closely to the previously published story and risk republishing serious mistakes, or publish a heavily toned-down version, raising questions about whether the paper still stands by the original report. Meanwhile, sources at the Times say Gettleman has been assigned a follow-up to gather evidence supporting his original reporting.
(The Conversation Canada) Ruling by UN’s top court means Canada and the U.S. could be complicit in Gaza genocide
posted by cendawanita at 9:27 PM on January 28 [10 favorites]
CNN: CNN video shows Palestinian detainees blindfolded and barefoot in Israel near Gaza border
- same embedded team that did the cemetery desecration story. Jeremy Diamond estimates about two dozen of them and they looked physically exhausted.
(AP) Embattled UN agency warns its aid operation in Gaza is ‘collapsing’ over a wave of funding cuts
The emerging deal also calls for Israel to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza.
CIA director Bill Burns is expected to discuss the contours of the emerging agreement when he meets Sunday in France with David Barnea, the head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency, Qatari Prime Minister Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani, and Egyptian intelligence chief Abbas Kamel for talks centered on the hostage negotiations.
Despite the apparent progress, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reiterated in a televised news conference late Saturday that the war would continue until “complete victory,” including crushing Hamas. - the video up top also stated that people are currently milling animal fodder because they can't get flour.
In Israel:
- (Dissent) A Historic Junction - The Israeli left after October 7. - interview with Sally Abed, Yael Berda, and Eli Cook.
In the West:
(NYT) Black Pastors Pressure Biden to Call for a Cease-Fire in Gaza
This Sahara Reporters piece is a repost/summary.
(The Intercept) New York Times Puts “Daily” Episode on Ice Amid Internal Firestorm Over Hamas Sexual Violence Article
Many reporters and editors understood that directive to be a reference to an intense internal debate unfolding over the story — a rolling fight that is revived on a near-daily basis over the tenor of Times coverage of the war in Gaza. (A Times spokesperson, Charlie Stadtlander, said those assumptions were inaccurate, and that the email was “a release of a company-wide policy, the deliberate and measured development of which began in the beginning of 2023.”)
As criticism of Gettleman’s story grew both internally and externally, producers at “The Daily” shelved the original script and paused the episode, according to newsroom sources familiar with the process. A new script was drafted, one that offered major caveats, allowed for uncertainty, and asked open-ended questions that were absent from the original article, which presented its findings as definitive evidence of the systematic use of sexual violence as a weapon of war.
That new draft remains the subject of significant controversy and has yet to be aired on the flagship podcast. The producers and the paper of record find themselves in a jam: run a version that hews closely to the previously published story and risk republishing serious mistakes, or publish a heavily toned-down version, raising questions about whether the paper still stands by the original report. Meanwhile, sources at the Times say Gettleman has been assigned a follow-up to gather evidence supporting his original reporting.
(The Conversation Canada) Ruling by UN’s top court means Canada and the U.S. could be complicit in Gaza genocide
posted by cendawanita at 9:27 PM on January 28 [10 favorites]
(Direct twt links - paste 'farside.link' before the full address in the address bar to see if there is a nitter cache)
First, Mohammad Safa: I will say this clearly once and for all;
The attacks and accusations that you hear that UNRWA supports Hamas and other brainwashing news and propaganda are aimed at overthrowing UNRWA. For those who do not know, UNRWA is the right of return, and abolishing UNRWA is canceling the right of return for the Palestinians to Palestine, and this is the goal behind the whole campaign: abolishing UNRWA.
And after abolishing UNRWA and the right to return, countries that host Palestinian refugees are forced to grant them their citizenship and terminate their rights as refugees, which violates article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that everyone has the right to seek and enjoy asylum from persecution in other countries.
Somewhere in the thread is a clip by former foreign ministry official Noga Arbell at the Knesset, saying that it would be impossible to win the war without destroying UNRWA.
Who then replied: We DO know UNRWA is the right of return. Thats what makes it genocidal. Thats how they justify their brainwashing of innocent children to become dead terrorists.
Its a fictitious, made up idea no one else in the world has, which has kept generations enslaved to property, even their ancestors had no claim to, and those original unsuccessful thieves have mostly passed away.
So it is makes no sense and serves no justice to keep their great-grandchildren impoverished and destitute as you try to push them into killing the rightful owners. They should really be allowed to move on with their lives at this point.
And in reply to a Palestinian: I claim the right to MY home, based on a 4000 years old presence
Recognized world wide.
You claim a right to steal it from me, based on 18 month visit to a land not your own 75 years ago.
You can't have it. It not yours.
It will never be yours no matter what lie you tell or how violent you are about it.
You tried to colonize it. You lost.
Stop trying to kill us or go back to where you came from.
This is JEWISH LAND.
IT WILL FOREVER BE THAT.
"Mask off" feels like an understatement.
posted by cendawanita at 10:28 PM on January 28 [9 favorites]
First, Mohammad Safa: I will say this clearly once and for all;
The attacks and accusations that you hear that UNRWA supports Hamas and other brainwashing news and propaganda are aimed at overthrowing UNRWA. For those who do not know, UNRWA is the right of return, and abolishing UNRWA is canceling the right of return for the Palestinians to Palestine, and this is the goal behind the whole campaign: abolishing UNRWA.
And after abolishing UNRWA and the right to return, countries that host Palestinian refugees are forced to grant them their citizenship and terminate their rights as refugees, which violates article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that everyone has the right to seek and enjoy asylum from persecution in other countries.
Somewhere in the thread is a clip by former foreign ministry official Noga Arbell at the Knesset, saying that it would be impossible to win the war without destroying UNRWA.
Who then replied: We DO know UNRWA is the right of return. Thats what makes it genocidal. Thats how they justify their brainwashing of innocent children to become dead terrorists.
Its a fictitious, made up idea no one else in the world has, which has kept generations enslaved to property, even their ancestors had no claim to, and those original unsuccessful thieves have mostly passed away.
So it is makes no sense and serves no justice to keep their great-grandchildren impoverished and destitute as you try to push them into killing the rightful owners. They should really be allowed to move on with their lives at this point.
And in reply to a Palestinian: I claim the right to MY home, based on a 4000 years old presence
Recognized world wide.
You claim a right to steal it from me, based on 18 month visit to a land not your own 75 years ago.
You can't have it. It not yours.
It will never be yours no matter what lie you tell or how violent you are about it.
You tried to colonize it. You lost.
Stop trying to kill us or go back to where you came from.
This is JEWISH LAND.
IT WILL FOREVER BE THAT.
"Mask off" feels like an understatement.
posted by cendawanita at 10:28 PM on January 28 [9 favorites]
Hebrew reporting from Israel Hayom, as summarised by Muhammad Shehada: Israel Hayom says the Israeli allegations about 12 (former) UNRWA employees is weeks old & the US knew about them a while ago; but it's NOT clear why the US decided to act at this particular moment & who in Israel's gov made the decision to make the allegation public right now!
(... Hold on lemme switch my geographic location...)
Machine translation: Israel has a lot of incriminating information about UNRWA, but has refrained from publishing it for political reasons. This is confirmed to Israel Hayom by three sources familiar with the issue. According to them, the information that caused the dismissal of the 12 agency employees who participated in the massacre has been known in the Israeli system for weeks. However, "In the Israeli political system, there was an understanding that UNRA must be preserved in Gaza, because it is the only functioning body in Gaza and without it the chaos would be even greater."
In the UK: Labour suspends Kate Osamor over Gaza comments in Holocaust message - Party investigating MP for Edmonton after she said Gaza should be remembered as genocide on memorial day
Older stories about online efforts:
(Haaretz) Israel Has Bought a Mass Online Influence System to Counter Antisemitism, Hamas Atrocity Denial - Defense, intelligence and civilian bodies realized soon after October 7 they were losing the online battle to what sources call Hamas' 'well-oiled psychological and information warfare machine.' So they quietly purchased digital tools to fight disinformation, despite fears of future political misuse
That was on 16 Jan. Just over a week later, Taylor Lorenz reports for WaPo: Growing number of apps help automate pro-Israel activism online - As the war in Gaza rages on, and both sides battle for support and public attention, supporters of Israel are making use of tools that allow them to mass report pro-Palestinian content as violating a platform’s rules.
The tools also generate AI-written suggested responses to posts online, allowing users to flood the comments of pro-Palestinian posts with pro-Israel messaging.
Experts who study communication online say the widespread use of such tools influences the online discussion of the war and is ushering in a new era of citizen-led propaganda campaigns. But the use of the tools does not appear to violate platform rules against what’s known as “coordinated inauthentic behavior,” or posts that appear to come from unrelated individuals but are really the result of an organized effort, often through automated accounts.
Of course today, I'm seeing earnest takedowns on Russian bots that's pushing pro-palestinian content. For transparency here's a thread by Magdi Jacobs.
In the meantime, I'm told that Taz is a left-leaning German publication, and here is their interview with Mustafa Barghouti (in German):
wochentaz: Mr. Barghouti, the fact that there is still no ceasefire in Gaza is also due to the lack of a strategy for the day after. How can another October 7th be prevented?
Mustafa Barghouti: By avoiding only talking about October 7th.
W: This wasn't just any day.
MB: What is the problem? That the barbed wire has been broken or that this barbed wire exists? I'm a doctor and I don't focus on the symptoms but on the causes. October 7th is a symptom. Hamas itself is a symptom. In 1948...
W:…no, please don’t start with 1948. We know the story. Let’s stick with current developments.
MB: If you ask the wrong question, you will get the wrong answer. It looks like I'm trying to dodge questions, but it's you who's dodging answers.
---
W: What do you expect from Europe?
MB: Nothing.
W: Not even sanctions?
MB: You have imposed thousands of sanctions on Putin, but at the same time you are vacationing in Airbnbs in the settlements (in the West Bank, editor's note) . You no longer have any credibility.
Best to be read with Pankaj Mishra's piece in the LRB, imo: Memory Failure.
posted by cendawanita at 10:53 PM on January 28 [9 favorites]
(... Hold on lemme switch my geographic location...)
Machine translation: Israel has a lot of incriminating information about UNRWA, but has refrained from publishing it for political reasons. This is confirmed to Israel Hayom by three sources familiar with the issue. According to them, the information that caused the dismissal of the 12 agency employees who participated in the massacre has been known in the Israeli system for weeks. However, "In the Israeli political system, there was an understanding that UNRA must be preserved in Gaza, because it is the only functioning body in Gaza and without it the chaos would be even greater."
In the UK: Labour suspends Kate Osamor over Gaza comments in Holocaust message - Party investigating MP for Edmonton after she said Gaza should be remembered as genocide on memorial day
Older stories about online efforts:
(Haaretz) Israel Has Bought a Mass Online Influence System to Counter Antisemitism, Hamas Atrocity Denial - Defense, intelligence and civilian bodies realized soon after October 7 they were losing the online battle to what sources call Hamas' 'well-oiled psychological and information warfare machine.' So they quietly purchased digital tools to fight disinformation, despite fears of future political misuse
That was on 16 Jan. Just over a week later, Taylor Lorenz reports for WaPo: Growing number of apps help automate pro-Israel activism online - As the war in Gaza rages on, and both sides battle for support and public attention, supporters of Israel are making use of tools that allow them to mass report pro-Palestinian content as violating a platform’s rules.
The tools also generate AI-written suggested responses to posts online, allowing users to flood the comments of pro-Palestinian posts with pro-Israel messaging.
Experts who study communication online say the widespread use of such tools influences the online discussion of the war and is ushering in a new era of citizen-led propaganda campaigns. But the use of the tools does not appear to violate platform rules against what’s known as “coordinated inauthentic behavior,” or posts that appear to come from unrelated individuals but are really the result of an organized effort, often through automated accounts.
Of course today, I'm seeing earnest takedowns on Russian bots that's pushing pro-palestinian content. For transparency here's a thread by Magdi Jacobs.
In the meantime, I'm told that Taz is a left-leaning German publication, and here is their interview with Mustafa Barghouti (in German):
wochentaz: Mr. Barghouti, the fact that there is still no ceasefire in Gaza is also due to the lack of a strategy for the day after. How can another October 7th be prevented?
Mustafa Barghouti: By avoiding only talking about October 7th.
W: This wasn't just any day.
MB: What is the problem? That the barbed wire has been broken or that this barbed wire exists? I'm a doctor and I don't focus on the symptoms but on the causes. October 7th is a symptom. Hamas itself is a symptom. In 1948...
W:…no, please don’t start with 1948. We know the story. Let’s stick with current developments.
MB: If you ask the wrong question, you will get the wrong answer. It looks like I'm trying to dodge questions, but it's you who's dodging answers.
---
W: What do you expect from Europe?
MB: Nothing.
W: Not even sanctions?
MB: You have imposed thousands of sanctions on Putin, but at the same time you are vacationing in Airbnbs in the settlements (in the West Bank, editor's note) . You no longer have any credibility.
Best to be read with Pankaj Mishra's piece in the LRB, imo: Memory Failure.
posted by cendawanita at 10:53 PM on January 28 [9 favorites]
It looks like I'm trying to dodge questions, but it's you who's dodging answers.
Oh, well put.
posted by flabdablet at 11:06 PM on January 28 [4 favorites]
Oh, well put.
posted by flabdablet at 11:06 PM on January 28 [4 favorites]
I have my own conclusions about the basis for pausing the UNRWA funding, but that Israel Hayom article reminded me, in NYT itself (12 Jan), buried in the copy: Before Oct. 7, the United States generally relied on Israel for collecting most intelligence on Hamas, according to U.S. officials.
For Israel, Hamas was a far more important threat, and therefore a top intelligence priority.
But the Oct. 7 attack demonstrated that Israel’s intelligence collection on Hamas had significant weaknesses. American officials have also raised questions about what Israel shared with the United States.
Like ...?? And because Biden isn't Trump, there's no reputational damage to following the USA's lead. Japan just announced its pause too.
posted by cendawanita at 11:20 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
For Israel, Hamas was a far more important threat, and therefore a top intelligence priority.
But the Oct. 7 attack demonstrated that Israel’s intelligence collection on Hamas had significant weaknesses. American officials have also raised questions about what Israel shared with the United States.
Like ...?? And because Biden isn't Trump, there's no reputational damage to following the USA's lead. Japan just announced its pause too.
posted by cendawanita at 11:20 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
"The C.I.A. is collecting information on senior Hamas leaders and the location of hostages in Gaza, and is providing that intelligence to Israel as it carries out its war in the enclave, according to U.S. officials."
Strange world when the NYT cites the CIA about the obvious.
posted by clavdivs at 12:06 AM on January 29
Strange world when the NYT cites the CIA about the obvious.
posted by clavdivs at 12:06 AM on January 29
As Palestinians continue to be actively targeted....
Haaretz: Netanyahu Ministers Join Thousands of Israelis in 'Resettle Gaza' Conference Calling for Palestinians' Transfer - 'We need to find a legal way to voluntarily emigrate [Palestinians],' said Israel's far-right national security minister, before a Likud lawmaker explained that in war, 'voluntary is a state you impose [on someone] until they give their consent'; conference blasted by Israeli opposition head: 'it undermines a potential deal and endangers IDF soldiers' (found an archive version)
TOI: 12 ministers call to resettle Gaza, encourage Gazans to leave, at jubilant conference
From BBC (video): Israel is not meeting its international obligation to get humanitarian aid into Gaza - says Qatar, who has been working as a mediator.
There are "many bottlenecks, man-created obstacles", said Lolwah Rashid al-Khater, Qatar's Minister of State for International Cooperation.
It comes after the UN's highest legal body recognised that the situation in Gaza is catastrophic.
Fwiw, Axios: Scoop: Arab officials held secret meeting to discuss plans for post-war Gaza - Senior national security officials from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the Palestinian Authority secretly met in Riyadh 10 days ago to coordinate plans for the day after the war in Gaza and discuss ways to involve a revitalized Palestinian Authority in governing there, three sources with knowledge of the meeting told Axios.
Why it matters: The meeting is another sign of the increased coordination between Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority in recent months, especially since the war in Gaza started.
Janina Dill: What International Law Can’t Achieve in Gaza and Ukraine - International law should restrain military aggression, help punish wrongdoers, and provide some guidance to conducting warfare ethically. In Ukraine and Gaza, international law seems to be doing none of these things. And yet these conflicts still underscore that international law is what we have and, more than ever, strengthening it must be a moral and political priority.
International law is omnipresent in public discussions of Russia’s war in Ukraine and Israel’s war in Gaza. Everyone—from world leaders to the press to ordinary people on social media—speak about a state’s right to self-defense, the need to ensure war crimes are not committed, and to guarantee the jurisdictional reach of international courts when they are. Given how much international law is discussed in the context of war, we expect it to constrain its reality. But, for three reasons, the wars in Ukraine and Gaza appear to demonstrate the weakness of international law.
Malak Silmi: Why, as a Palestinian American journalist, I had to leave the news industry - What I took away from that experience was that I should steer clear of localising international affairs. But then a few months later, the Russia-Ukraine war started and we began publishing articles localising it.
I was assigned some of these stories: a local bar boycotting Russian vodka and a US journalist receiving treatment at a local hospital after getting injured in Ukraine. I tried to avoid bringing work troubles home, but I failed. My husband listened to my frustration and comforted me as I wept.
I saw the journalism that I wanted to be a part of and that was possible, but learned that its standards could not be applied to my people. I saw the efforts that were put into getting the facts right and centring local Ukrainian voices. I saw what was possible for others but not for the Palestinian people.
posted by cendawanita at 1:25 AM on January 29 [11 favorites]
Haaretz: Netanyahu Ministers Join Thousands of Israelis in 'Resettle Gaza' Conference Calling for Palestinians' Transfer - 'We need to find a legal way to voluntarily emigrate [Palestinians],' said Israel's far-right national security minister, before a Likud lawmaker explained that in war, 'voluntary is a state you impose [on someone] until they give their consent'; conference blasted by Israeli opposition head: 'it undermines a potential deal and endangers IDF soldiers' (found an archive version)
TOI: 12 ministers call to resettle Gaza, encourage Gazans to leave, at jubilant conference
From BBC (video): Israel is not meeting its international obligation to get humanitarian aid into Gaza - says Qatar, who has been working as a mediator.
There are "many bottlenecks, man-created obstacles", said Lolwah Rashid al-Khater, Qatar's Minister of State for International Cooperation.
It comes after the UN's highest legal body recognised that the situation in Gaza is catastrophic.
Fwiw, Axios: Scoop: Arab officials held secret meeting to discuss plans for post-war Gaza - Senior national security officials from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the Palestinian Authority secretly met in Riyadh 10 days ago to coordinate plans for the day after the war in Gaza and discuss ways to involve a revitalized Palestinian Authority in governing there, three sources with knowledge of the meeting told Axios.
Why it matters: The meeting is another sign of the increased coordination between Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority in recent months, especially since the war in Gaza started.
Janina Dill: What International Law Can’t Achieve in Gaza and Ukraine - International law should restrain military aggression, help punish wrongdoers, and provide some guidance to conducting warfare ethically. In Ukraine and Gaza, international law seems to be doing none of these things. And yet these conflicts still underscore that international law is what we have and, more than ever, strengthening it must be a moral and political priority.
International law is omnipresent in public discussions of Russia’s war in Ukraine and Israel’s war in Gaza. Everyone—from world leaders to the press to ordinary people on social media—speak about a state’s right to self-defense, the need to ensure war crimes are not committed, and to guarantee the jurisdictional reach of international courts when they are. Given how much international law is discussed in the context of war, we expect it to constrain its reality. But, for three reasons, the wars in Ukraine and Gaza appear to demonstrate the weakness of international law.
Malak Silmi: Why, as a Palestinian American journalist, I had to leave the news industry - What I took away from that experience was that I should steer clear of localising international affairs. But then a few months later, the Russia-Ukraine war started and we began publishing articles localising it.
I was assigned some of these stories: a local bar boycotting Russian vodka and a US journalist receiving treatment at a local hospital after getting injured in Ukraine. I tried to avoid bringing work troubles home, but I failed. My husband listened to my frustration and comforted me as I wept.
I saw the journalism that I wanted to be a part of and that was possible, but learned that its standards could not be applied to my people. I saw the efforts that were put into getting the facts right and centring local Ukrainian voices. I saw what was possible for others but not for the Palestinian people.
posted by cendawanita at 1:25 AM on January 29 [11 favorites]
I'd already posted some of those comments by Arbell, but i'm glad cendawanita posted them again because yes, they are extremely mask-off. Here's a Twitter thread (link is to a public nitter mirror) with more comments from other influential Israelis at the same Knesset hearing in early January.
Israel has been trying to destroy UNRWA for years. This latest assertion should be understood as a gambit in service of that goal. (Especially since the "evidence" was supposedly obtained by Shin Bet and Israel military intelligence, which almost certainly means "we tortured some detainees" because that is what they do to Palestinians.)
Meanwhile, today in Jerusalem, hundreds of settlers held a major conference to plan out the resettlement of the Gaza Strip; twelve Israeli cabinet ministers and several other Knesset members attended. (Link is again to a working nitter mirror)
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:01 AM on January 29 [10 favorites]
Israel has been trying to destroy UNRWA for years. This latest assertion should be understood as a gambit in service of that goal. (Especially since the "evidence" was supposedly obtained by Shin Bet and Israel military intelligence, which almost certainly means "we tortured some detainees" because that is what they do to Palestinians.)
Meanwhile, today in Jerusalem, hundreds of settlers held a major conference to plan out the resettlement of the Gaza Strip; twelve Israeli cabinet ministers and several other Knesset members attended. (Link is again to a working nitter mirror)
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:01 AM on January 29 [10 favorites]
Netanyahu Ministers Join Thousands of Israelis in 'Resettle Gaza' Conference Calling for Palestinians' Transfer
When German far-right extremists proposed something similar at a secret conference it led to massive counter-demonstrations, to widespread approval (previously on MetaFilter). Here several members of the Israeli government made this proposal at a public conference attended by (it appears, based on photos of the event) thousands of people. None of the articles I've read about it have mentioned significant public opposition or outcry. I really hope I'm just missing something.
As of 5 days ago, 80.7% of Israelis rate the IDF's performance in the war as "good". 83.2% believe that Israeli public was "standing up well to war". A slight majority, 53.8%, were unsatisfied with the war cabinet's work, but presumably at least some of those are unsatisfied because it hasn't been aggressive enough.
posted by jedicus at 7:22 AM on January 29 [3 favorites]
When German far-right extremists proposed something similar at a secret conference it led to massive counter-demonstrations, to widespread approval (previously on MetaFilter). Here several members of the Israeli government made this proposal at a public conference attended by (it appears, based on photos of the event) thousands of people. None of the articles I've read about it have mentioned significant public opposition or outcry. I really hope I'm just missing something.
As of 5 days ago, 80.7% of Israelis rate the IDF's performance in the war as "good". 83.2% believe that Israeli public was "standing up well to war". A slight majority, 53.8%, were unsatisfied with the war cabinet's work, but presumably at least some of those are unsatisfied because it hasn't been aggressive enough.
posted by jedicus at 7:22 AM on January 29 [3 favorites]
Tamara Nassar (Arabic-to-English translation of tweet by Awni Bilal) [Twitter et seq, Nitter thread]
Ceasing UNRWA funding didn't need an 84-page plea, sessions, deliberations or a complex technical decision awaiting interpretation by UN bodies later on, as time permits & authorized by major powers. A simple push of an American button launched & completed the process instantly. For those interested in discussing theatrics, this is theater.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:49 AM on January 29
jedicus: 12 government ministers is nearly a third of the entire Israeli government. That's before you get to the other 15+ MKs who attended, and the thousands of settlers. Make no mistake, the only reason this isn't official Israeli policy is because they know they have to maintain a figleaf for the USA to be able to continue to claim this somehow, magically, isn't genocide.
And as you point out, this isn't a situation like Germany's, where the people are broadly at odds with far-right elements in the government and political class; non-Arab Israelis are fully bought into the genocide of Palestinians, and Arab Israelis are being terrorized into silence.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:56 AM on January 29 [6 favorites]
And as you point out, this isn't a situation like Germany's, where the people are broadly at odds with far-right elements in the government and political class; non-Arab Israelis are fully bought into the genocide of Palestinians, and Arab Israelis are being terrorized into silence.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:56 AM on January 29 [6 favorites]
And as you point out, this isn't a situation like Germany's, where the people are broadly at odds with far-right elements in the government and political class; non-Arab Israelis are fully bought into the genocide of Palestinians, and Arab Israelis are being terrorized into silence.
Another "minor" difference to Germany: many non-Arab israelis have been bludgeoned into supporting "the war" (i.e the devastation of palestine), by a governement on a war footing, a compliant media repeating clips from october 7 over and over and over again daily, with limited or no mention of palestinian deaths and suffering (and social and legal penalties for those who do mention them), and conscription sending their kids to the occupied territories in a war zone.
this isn't a march in a free society like in germany. it's standing up to an active war machine bent on crushing dissent, foreign and domestic.
posted by lalochezia at 8:18 AM on January 29 [2 favorites]
And yet we are constantly told that Israel is the only free society in the Middle East!
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:23 AM on January 29 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:23 AM on January 29 [4 favorites]
it's a damn sight less free than it was 5 months ago, that's for sure.
most of the behaviors described above (with the exception of the extent of the nauseating pliancy of the media) would be true in a society where conscription was happening. this doesn't justify the participation in massacre, but it doesn't make it unique to Israel either.
there are plenty of other of the current actions of Israel that are more unique abominations....just not this one imo.
posted by lalochezia at 8:30 AM on January 29
most of the behaviors described above (with the exception of the extent of the nauseating pliancy of the media) would be true in a society where conscription was happening. this doesn't justify the participation in massacre, but it doesn't make it unique to Israel either.
there are plenty of other of the current actions of Israel that are more unique abominations....just not this one imo.
posted by lalochezia at 8:30 AM on January 29
Meanwhile, for the last six days, Israeli protestors have been blockading the Karem Abu Selem border crossing to prevent humanitarian aid trucks from entering Gaza. The IDF, which could stop the blockade in five seconds, refuses to do so (and is almost certainly covertly aiding the protestors). Israeli TV ran a story today (link is to a Twitter clip). A quote:
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:45 AM on January 29 [6 favorites]
“They’re from all different sides of the Israeli political spectrum… they say they are from the right, from the left, they’re religious, they’re secular, some of them are families of hostages… but all coming out for the simple aim of trying to stop humanitarian aid”This is Israeli society. They are actively thrilled at the prospect of starving Palestinians.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:45 AM on January 29 [6 favorites]
Has any Israeli official given any sort of explanation for why flattening, starving, and brutalizing Gaza is in any way conducive to the safe return of the remaining hostages?
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:55 AM on January 29 [4 favorites]
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:55 AM on January 29 [4 favorites]
Cpt. The Mango: Israeli officials have, by and large, completely dropped the pretense that they ever actually cared about saving the hostages.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:59 AM on January 29 [5 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:59 AM on January 29 [5 favorites]
so if it's not about the hostages, it's about the safety? Because Israel is safer now, right? Right?
in my cultural memory the closest analogy in N. America is what precipitated the formation of Homeland Security, invasion of Iraq, all the terrible decisions.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:09 AM on January 29 [5 favorites]
in my cultural memory the closest analogy in N. America is what precipitated the formation of Homeland Security, invasion of Iraq, all the terrible decisions.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:09 AM on January 29 [5 favorites]
Safer in the short term, at least from the specific direction of Gaza? You could say that, yes.
In the longer view? The trick with peace-via-blinding-violence is that attacks don't always come from whom and where you're expecting them. Kind of like the attack that kicked off this particular vengeance genocide.
posted by delfin at 1:15 PM on January 29 [1 favorite]
In the longer view? The trick with peace-via-blinding-violence is that attacks don't always come from whom and where you're expecting them. Kind of like the attack that kicked off this particular vengeance genocide.
posted by delfin at 1:15 PM on January 29 [1 favorite]
We could be discussing how to hold our governments responsible for fulfilling their obligations under the Genocide Convention by ending their political and material support for Israel's actions in Gaza.
Calling your reps is a step in the right direction, but organized messaging is louder:
DSA members occupied the office of Ranking Member of the House Armed Services Committee Adam Smith on Friday.
Washington State Democrats central committee just passed a resolution, 75-54, calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.
posted by StarkRoads at 10:13 PM on January 29 [8 favorites]
Calling your reps is a step in the right direction, but organized messaging is louder:
DSA members occupied the office of Ranking Member of the House Armed Services Committee Adam Smith on Friday.
Washington State Democrats central committee just passed a resolution, 75-54, calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.
posted by StarkRoads at 10:13 PM on January 29 [8 favorites]
Hold on a sec, so this is okay when members of a standing army of an actual nation do it?
(Al-Jazeera; 1 hour ago) WATCH: Israeli commandos dressed as doctors kill hospital patients.
Israeli special forces disguised as Palestinians killed three people in a hospital in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin.
CCTV circulated online appeared to show about a dozen undercover troops – including three in women’s garb and two dressed as medical staff – pacing through a hospital corridor with assault weapons.
---- other bits ---
(Al-Jazeera) Israeli protesters attempt to block Gaza aid for seventh day in a row: Report
+ CNN: (CNN: Protesters block Gaza aid): Nic Robertson: "the number one interim ruling from the International Court of Justice for Israel to follow: keep the humanitarian aid flowing." Longer video report.
Update on the cemetery desecration, from the same CNN team: IDF says they destroyed this Gaza graveyard because of Hamas activity. CNN can't find the evidence
Jared Diamond: "but the Israeli military failed to prove that stunning claim during a three-hour tour of that area"
idk if this is a sign of changing narratives because in the last CNN story, the explanation was they were checking for bodies of Israeli hostages. Anyway in this video, what CNN could observe is the tunnel section they were brought to isn't where one of these desecrated cemeteries are at.
Related: (Al-Jazeera) 100 bodies stolen by Israel reburied in a mass grave in Rafah
posted by cendawanita at 2:57 AM on January 30 [7 favorites]
(Al-Jazeera; 1 hour ago) WATCH: Israeli commandos dressed as doctors kill hospital patients.
Israeli special forces disguised as Palestinians killed three people in a hospital in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin.
CCTV circulated online appeared to show about a dozen undercover troops – including three in women’s garb and two dressed as medical staff – pacing through a hospital corridor with assault weapons.
---- other bits ---
(Al-Jazeera) Israeli protesters attempt to block Gaza aid for seventh day in a row: Report
+ CNN: (CNN: Protesters block Gaza aid): Nic Robertson: "the number one interim ruling from the International Court of Justice for Israel to follow: keep the humanitarian aid flowing." Longer video report.
Update on the cemetery desecration, from the same CNN team: IDF says they destroyed this Gaza graveyard because of Hamas activity. CNN can't find the evidence
Jared Diamond: "but the Israeli military failed to prove that stunning claim during a three-hour tour of that area"
idk if this is a sign of changing narratives because in the last CNN story, the explanation was they were checking for bodies of Israeli hostages. Anyway in this video, what CNN could observe is the tunnel section they were brought to isn't where one of these desecrated cemeteries are at.
Related: (Al-Jazeera) 100 bodies stolen by Israel reburied in a mass grave in Rafah
posted by cendawanita at 2:57 AM on January 30 [7 favorites]
(belatedly wondering if this is even a bad thing for the userbase here since CIA did utilize vaccination drives to find OBL - but at least not in disguise as medical workers?)
posted by cendawanita at 3:14 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 3:14 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
The West Attacks UNRWA In Sick Response To ICJ, Israeli Convention On Resettling Gaza | #NovaraLIVE (Novara Media, Piped/YouTube, 55m21s)
posted by flabdablet at 4:49 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 4:49 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
Norman Finkelstein & Craig Mokhiber EXPLAIN ICJ Genocide Decision on Israel (Katie Halper, YouTube/Piped, 2h14m4s)
posted by flabdablet at 5:04 AM on January 30 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 5:04 AM on January 30 [1 favorite]
No, disguising oneself as a nurse to kill somebody is fucking terrible. Special forces of all sorts are the worst the world has to offer. While we’re at it, Navy Seals and Rainbow Dicks can just bite me. I’ve about had it with Israel as a whole and if the US gets involved I don’t give a rat’s ass about the troops. They knew what they were getting into.
posted by caviar2d2 at 5:05 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 5:05 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
...appears to be being confirmed everywhere, sometimes as a celebration of their actions in disguising themselves as medical personnel and noncombatants.
I don't know what to fuck to say. They care so little about what anyone else thinks they've entirely broken the feedback loop on defensive projecting accusations. Israel is begging to be seen as worse than Russia, approaching par with North Korea and they seem pretty happy about it.
posted by Audreynachrome at 5:42 AM on January 30 [7 favorites]
I don't know what to fuck to say. They care so little about what anyone else thinks they've entirely broken the feedback loop on defensive projecting accusations. Israel is begging to be seen as worse than Russia, approaching par with North Korea and they seem pretty happy about it.
posted by Audreynachrome at 5:42 AM on January 30 [7 favorites]
Calling your reps is a step in the right direction, but organized messaging is louder
I have heard US congressional staffers say that the phone calls, especially when done in bulk, have helped sway Congressmembers. They are also getting organized phone blasts asking that they do more to protect Israel, so if people who support a ceasefire don't also call, they will assume their constituents do not want a ceasefire.
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:00 AM on January 30 [10 favorites]
I have heard US congressional staffers say that the phone calls, especially when done in bulk, have helped sway Congressmembers. They are also getting organized phone blasts asking that they do more to protect Israel, so if people who support a ceasefire don't also call, they will assume their constituents do not want a ceasefire.
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:00 AM on January 30 [10 favorites]
The UNRWA has announced that it will have to pause operations by the end of February if funding is not resumed.
At this point we are going to be lucky if the death toll from disease and starvation in Gaza stays under seven figures, and nearly all of our governments are actively complicit.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:23 AM on January 30 [8 favorites]
At this point we are going to be lucky if the death toll from disease and starvation in Gaza stays under seven figures, and nearly all of our governments are actively complicit.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:23 AM on January 30 [8 favorites]
In light of Israeli occupation forces dressing up as hospital personnel & patients (which is itself the war crime of perfidy) to carry out assassinations on people who are hors de combat (another war crime) -- you know what's really bothered me since the beginning of this particular (outbreak of the ongoing) conflict started? The idea that Hamas is violating IHL by "conducting military operations dressed as civilians".
Because i've … never actually seen any evidence of that? It's true that Al-Qassam Brigades soldiers don't have full uniforms (i mean, where would they get them, for starters???), but i don't think i've ever seen images or videos of them acting militarily without at least their recognizable green headbands. Which, while i am not an expert in international law, seems like a perfectly reasonable example of having "a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance".
Please note that i am not making any claims in this post about other war crimes Al-Qassam Brigades personnel might have committed; simply that i haven't seen evidence that they are acting while not under color of arms.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:40 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
Because i've … never actually seen any evidence of that? It's true that Al-Qassam Brigades soldiers don't have full uniforms (i mean, where would they get them, for starters???), but i don't think i've ever seen images or videos of them acting militarily without at least their recognizable green headbands. Which, while i am not an expert in international law, seems like a perfectly reasonable example of having "a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance".
Please note that i am not making any claims in this post about other war crimes Al-Qassam Brigades personnel might have committed; simply that i haven't seen evidence that they are acting while not under color of arms.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:40 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
(Note that IHL definitely does not require soldiers to be recognizable at a distance, or living away from civilians, when not engaged in military operations; otherwise every off-duty soldier who visits family in civilian clothes would be violating IHL!)
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:43 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:43 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
The contrast between the US's enthusiasm for defunding UNRWA now on the basis of old allegations of murderous criminality in a now-sacked handful of its thousands of employees, and its complete unwillingness to take any meaningful action to rein in its own police services regardless of how many thousands of its own citizens they quite routinely kill, could not be more stark.
It has to be a PR move designed to shift the public spotlight off the ICJ rulings. I can't make it make sense any other way.
posted by flabdablet at 7:46 AM on January 30 [14 favorites]
It has to be a PR move designed to shift the public spotlight off the ICJ rulings. I can't make it make sense any other way.
posted by flabdablet at 7:46 AM on January 30 [14 favorites]
If you’re a superpower that can’t suffer an average rate of one dead soldier per 38 days of intense regional conflict without behaving like you’ve arrived at a 9/11-type decision point, maybe massive military entanglements in the Middle East are not for you?Aaron Lund on Twitter (working Nitter mirror) quote-tweeting this Sky News article, which claims Biden is close to a "moment of no return" on a larger regional conflict.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:51 AM on January 30
Meanwhile, in Israel, the Knesset's Home Committee has just impeached MK Omer Cassif because he signed a petition in support of South Africa's case at the ICJ. The full Knesset will now vote on his removal.
The petition that Cassif signed said that "Israel is indeed taking methodological and fundamental steps to erase, starve, abuse, and expel the population of Gaza. It actualizes a policy of erasing possibilities of living, which leads to genocide. It methodologically kills broad swaths of population, leading academics, authors, doctors, medical teams, journalists, and simple citizens."posted by adrienneleigh at 8:12 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
I'm reading this article on Joe Biden's ongoing support for Israel. It explains his long history of identification with the country--may not be new info for some, but it is for me.
posted by chaiminda at 8:44 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
posted by chaiminda at 8:44 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
Some signaling - "UK Consider Recognising Palestinian State". Which presumably would have been discussed with several other major players before being announced.
posted by phigmov at 9:42 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 9:42 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
can't make it make sense any other way.
sometimes a bureaucratic response to a war crime can be quite confusing. but I shall endeavor posit at least one plausible explanation. the agency has been rife with corruption for years and many countries have withheld funds over the years because of this corruption, yet what makes it really sad is that this agency is provided tenfold the good nay, 100 fold good then the sick actions of a few misguided workers.
the parlance of bureaucratic diplomacy, I would think that withholding funds would put pressure on other countries to step up funding for this program so far and I haven't checked that thoroughly no one has really stepped up to fill in the financial gap for instance Iran or Russia.
"Disguising military units
Hamas militants disguise themselves as civilians, medical, or enemy units, or confuse civilians with military units by conducting military operations from civilian locations, which are perfidious violations of international law. The Rome Statute and the Geneva Conventions article 37, require distinguishing combatants from civilians, and providing for medical treatment of the wounded by designated units.[47][48][49][50][51][52][53][54][55][56][57][58][59][60][61][12][excessive citations]
Australia pauses funding for United Nations agency amid October 7 terror allegations
Australia has paused
so the real question is if one is an Australian that pays taxes, are they complicit in genocide.
I'd say no but.
I would love to see the leaders of Hamas brought to justice but I fear that they're either overseas, fighting for their lives, or buried under rubble it's very difficult to bring people to Justice when they're buried under rubble.
posted by clavdivs at 9:59 AM on January 30 [1 favorite]
sometimes a bureaucratic response to a war crime can be quite confusing. but I shall endeavor posit at least one plausible explanation. the agency has been rife with corruption for years and many countries have withheld funds over the years because of this corruption, yet what makes it really sad is that this agency is provided tenfold the good nay, 100 fold good then the sick actions of a few misguided workers.
the parlance of bureaucratic diplomacy, I would think that withholding funds would put pressure on other countries to step up funding for this program so far and I haven't checked that thoroughly no one has really stepped up to fill in the financial gap for instance Iran or Russia.
"Disguising military units
Hamas militants disguise themselves as civilians, medical, or enemy units, or confuse civilians with military units by conducting military operations from civilian locations, which are perfidious violations of international law. The Rome Statute and the Geneva Conventions article 37, require distinguishing combatants from civilians, and providing for medical treatment of the wounded by designated units.[47][48][49][50][51][52][53][54][55][56][57][58][59][60][61][12][excessive citations]
Australia pauses funding for United Nations agency amid October 7 terror allegations
Australia has paused
so the real question is if one is an Australian that pays taxes, are they complicit in genocide.
I'd say no but.
I would love to see the leaders of Hamas brought to justice but I fear that they're either overseas, fighting for their lives, or buried under rubble it's very difficult to bring people to Justice when they're buried under rubble.
posted by clavdivs at 9:59 AM on January 30 [1 favorite]
On a purely logistical level (and not to justify it) the hospital raid also shows that wholesale bombing of apartment blocks to hit Hamas leadership wasn't necessary, at least for the purpose given. Israel is capable of carrying these things out at an individually targeted level.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:09 AM on January 30 [9 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:09 AM on January 30 [9 favorites]
Jonathan Cook provides context for why UNRWA is being targeted by Israel:
UNRWA is separate from the UN’s main refugee agency, the UNHCR, and deals only with Palestinian refugees. Although Israel does not want you to know it, the reason for there being two UN refugee agencies is because Israel and its western backers insisted on the division back in 1948. Why? Because Israel was afraid of the Palestinians falling under the responsibility of the UNHCR’s forerunner, the International Refugee Organisation. The IRO was established in the immediate wake of the Second World War in large part to cope with the millions of European Jews fleeing Nazi atrocities.
Israel did not want the two cases treated as comparable, because it was pushing hard for Jewish refugees to be settled on lands from which it had just expelled Palestinians. Part of the IRO’s mission was to seek the repatriation of European Jews. Israel was worried that very principle might be used both to deny it the Jews it wanted to colonise Palestinian land and to force it to allow the Palestinian refugees to return to their former homes. So in a real sense, UNRWA is Israel’s creature: it was set up to keep the Palestinians a case apart, an anomaly.
posted by toastyk at 11:13 AM on January 30 [14 favorites]
UNRWA is separate from the UN’s main refugee agency, the UNHCR, and deals only with Palestinian refugees. Although Israel does not want you to know it, the reason for there being two UN refugee agencies is because Israel and its western backers insisted on the division back in 1948. Why? Because Israel was afraid of the Palestinians falling under the responsibility of the UNHCR’s forerunner, the International Refugee Organisation. The IRO was established in the immediate wake of the Second World War in large part to cope with the millions of European Jews fleeing Nazi atrocities.
Israel did not want the two cases treated as comparable, because it was pushing hard for Jewish refugees to be settled on lands from which it had just expelled Palestinians. Part of the IRO’s mission was to seek the repatriation of European Jews. Israel was worried that very principle might be used both to deny it the Jews it wanted to colonise Palestinian land and to force it to allow the Palestinian refugees to return to their former homes. So in a real sense, UNRWA is Israel’s creature: it was set up to keep the Palestinians a case apart, an anomaly.
posted by toastyk at 11:13 AM on January 30 [14 favorites]
The 'best' part is that this (the hospital raid) is not in Gaza. And because South Africa won provisional measures that are carefully limited for Gaza, by technicality I guess we won't see this reported in Israel's upcoming update to the ICJ.
posted by cendawanita at 11:13 AM on January 30 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 11:13 AM on January 30 [1 favorite]
belatedly wondering if this is even a bad thing for the userbase here since CIA did utilize vaccination drives to find OBL - but at least not in disguise as medical workers?)
I've railed against the fricken CIAs illegal covert action to hunt down OBL while simultaneously setting back polio eradication on numerous occasions. It's one of the more despicable things they've done.
At this point we are going to be lucky if the death toll from disease and starvation in Gaza stays under seven figures, and nearly all of our governments are actively complicit.
The only Holocaust victim most Americans and Canadians can name didn't die from direct Nazi action rather starvation and disease in a concentration camp.
posted by Mitheral at 11:24 AM on January 30 [6 favorites]
I've railed against the fricken CIAs illegal covert action to hunt down OBL while simultaneously setting back polio eradication on numerous occasions. It's one of the more despicable things they've done.
At this point we are going to be lucky if the death toll from disease and starvation in Gaza stays under seven figures, and nearly all of our governments are actively complicit.
The only Holocaust victim most Americans and Canadians can name didn't die from direct Nazi action rather starvation and disease in a concentration camp.
posted by Mitheral at 11:24 AM on January 30 [6 favorites]
Why one ICJ judge voted against every approved provisional measure in South Africa’s genocide case against Israel
"Sebutinde has served on the court during three other genocide cases. In the two of those cases in which provisional measures were asked for, Sebutinde voted in favor of them. This includes the 2022 case between Ukraine and Russia, in which she voted in favor of all three provisional measures that passed, which included demands that Russia immediately cease its military operations in Ukraine."
posted by elkevelvet at 12:49 PM on January 30 [2 favorites]
"Sebutinde has served on the court during three other genocide cases. In the two of those cases in which provisional measures were asked for, Sebutinde voted in favor of them. This includes the 2022 case between Ukraine and Russia, in which she voted in favor of all three provisional measures that passed, which included demands that Russia immediately cease its military operations in Ukraine."
posted by elkevelvet at 12:49 PM on January 30 [2 favorites]
Oh that reminds me. The ICJ will be reading out their preliminary judgment for Ukraine v Russia today. From my understanding now the substance of that suit isn't applicable here but the western countries' response is.
posted by cendawanita at 5:46 PM on January 30 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 5:46 PM on January 30 [2 favorites]
Yep, And the UN webtv streaming link. On its merits it's already significant enough (and probably out of scope for this thread) but yeah, it'd be interesting to witness another round of hypocrisy in the international reaction.
posted by cendawanita at 7:05 PM on January 30 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 7:05 PM on January 30 [2 favorites]
Wait, to clarify - this is the first of two this week. This one is of personal interest to me as well (terror financing and how that relates to the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 and the erasure of cultural minorities, which coincidentally heh, are predominantly Muslim).
The genocide judgment (which is more that Ukraine is filing against Russia claiming that to justify their invasion) is the day after tomorrow. That one *may* have substantial interest for here only in the sense that if there's any deliberations on if there's grounds for unilateral action (eg invasion or siege) if there's plausible claim of genocide, imo. I'm purely speculating - either way it's worth noting that Israel claims Hamas is committing genocide against all Jewish people; and if Israel doesn't control its level of violence and no sanctions incoming, what other measures there are.
Fwiw, Francis Boyle did appear on MSNBC. This twitter link is the only video I can find quickly (googling didn't yield an MSNBC streaming link for example) but the visuals have been re-edited to show clips from Al-Jazeera. So I'm just taking the audio of the interview itself. I find it notable that he's on MSNBC but also he basically stated there's grounds to launch suits on the crime of complicity now for the other nations that cut off UNRWA aid. The other he mentioned is Algeria will be introducing the resolution re: ICJ order in the Security Council today (Wednesday). He underlined that should there be a veto (and I believe you can't spend time trying to reword the resolution as it's literally a direct order) this will go down to General Assembly, and he reminded that the sanctions on North Korea came via UNGA.
Regarding filing suits, there's a panel video from Electronic Intifada people over the weekend, which was interesting for me because they had Susan Akram, the director of the International Human Rights Clinic at the Boston Uni School of Law, who gave her opinion that with the precedent set by The Gambia which is accepted for grounds to continue South Africa's suit, the concept of universal jurisdiction for international crimes (which has over the years been constrained when tested in various domestic courts usually due to the US when applied to itself as well as the US when attempts to put Israel to trial) has been reexpanded again. She's really cautiously optimistic that this can be a viable tactic for civil societies again.
posted by cendawanita at 7:25 PM on January 30 [7 favorites]
The genocide judgment (which is more that Ukraine is filing against Russia claiming that to justify their invasion) is the day after tomorrow. That one *may* have substantial interest for here only in the sense that if there's any deliberations on if there's grounds for unilateral action (eg invasion or siege) if there's plausible claim of genocide, imo. I'm purely speculating - either way it's worth noting that Israel claims Hamas is committing genocide against all Jewish people; and if Israel doesn't control its level of violence and no sanctions incoming, what other measures there are.
Fwiw, Francis Boyle did appear on MSNBC. This twitter link is the only video I can find quickly (googling didn't yield an MSNBC streaming link for example) but the visuals have been re-edited to show clips from Al-Jazeera. So I'm just taking the audio of the interview itself. I find it notable that he's on MSNBC but also he basically stated there's grounds to launch suits on the crime of complicity now for the other nations that cut off UNRWA aid. The other he mentioned is Algeria will be introducing the resolution re: ICJ order in the Security Council today (Wednesday). He underlined that should there be a veto (and I believe you can't spend time trying to reword the resolution as it's literally a direct order) this will go down to General Assembly, and he reminded that the sanctions on North Korea came via UNGA.
Regarding filing suits, there's a panel video from Electronic Intifada people over the weekend, which was interesting for me because they had Susan Akram, the director of the International Human Rights Clinic at the Boston Uni School of Law, who gave her opinion that with the precedent set by The Gambia which is accepted for grounds to continue South Africa's suit, the concept of universal jurisdiction for international crimes (which has over the years been constrained when tested in various domestic courts usually due to the US when applied to itself as well as the US when attempts to put Israel to trial) has been reexpanded again. She's really cautiously optimistic that this can be a viable tactic for civil societies again.
posted by cendawanita at 7:25 PM on January 30 [7 favorites]
Not particularly breaking news links but longreads and contextualising journalism and such - I just need to clear out my tabs (in no particular order):-
- (Guardian) Swedish music stars call for Israel Eurovision ban over Gaza
- (Historical Materialism; Benjamin Balthaser) Not Your Good Germans - Holocaust Memory, Anti-Fascism, and the anti-Zionism of the Jewish New Left
Finkel's formation is one I encountered often while reading memoirs and interviewing Jewish activists who were part of the New Left of the 1960s and early 1970s. In another interview with Susan Eanet (now Klonsky), a former Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) activist and founder of the Revolutionary Youth Movement (RYM) and later the new communist October League, explained her own dedication to Palestinian liberation through Holocaust memory. After talking for several hours in her northwest Chicago home about her Jewish upbringing, about her father who was a founder of a liberal temple in Washington D.C., and about how that related to her anti-Zionist writings for the SDS newspaper New Left Notes, she finally explained: "we couldn't be good Germans."[4] Jews, she said, more than anyone, should know the price of the world's silence as a genocide is taking place. Tellingly, also Mark Rudd framed his resistance to the Vietnam War in the exact same way in his memoir of SDS, saying he "can't be a good German.”[5] "In my home, as in millions of Jewish homes, "Hitler" was the name for Absolute Evil," Rudd explains, going to further to say "only this time, it was us, the Americans."
Like Klonsky, Rudd evoked the Holocaust not to suggest that Jews are special victims of a unique tragedy or to justify or rationalize their behavior, but to explain why they felt a personal responsibility to oppose fascism and colonialism done in their name, either as Jews and/or Americans. Shortly after her release from prison, for Weather Underground member Kathy Boudine recollected that her decision to support the Black Liberation Army's campaign of bank robberies and jailbreaks rested on her analysis that America was in the process of committing multiple genocides and that she, like Rudd and Klonsky, thought "a lot about Germany" during the Holocaust: "how do you live a life when your government is doing what its doing?"[6] In other words, she neither could be a "good German."
- (Arab-American Institute; Dr James Zogby) Working for a Ceasefire, From the Bottom Up
More significant, and somewhat unexpected, are the numbers of City Councils who have taken up the call for a ceasefire. Led by grassroots mobilizations of Palestinian Americans, progressive Jewish groups, and Black activists, major cities like Atlanta, San Francisco, Minneapolis, Detroit, Seattle, St Louis, and three dozen other municipalities have passed strong ceasefire resolutions. And while a vote on a similar resolution has been delayed for a few days in Chicago, the US’s third largest city and home of this year’s Democratic National Convention, that city’s Mayor, Brandon Johnson, this week issued a strong call in support of a ceasefire.
Because the language used by Mayor Johnson was so evocative it warrants consideration. Echoing the sentiments of his voters, he not only expressed his horror at the loss of life, but also tied the liberation of Blacks with the justifiable need for Palestinian liberation.
(Rampant) The West Calls for Famine in Gaza
Like in Ireland in 1845, India in 1876, and countless other horrific instances in the history of colonial rule, the cause of the current famine in Gaza is not a lack of food, nor is it a lack of potential life-saving aid. Rather, as in centuries past, famine has arrived by the steady hands of a colonizing power (in this case two such powers). These states have nurtured the conditions for its rise, blocked international organizations from any and all prevention efforts, and, in the moment the warnings were loudest, acted to block the meager aid that could’ve lessened it.
- (Guardian) How war destroyed Gaza’s neighbourhoods – visual investigation
A Guardian investigation has detailed the mass destruction of buildings and land in three neighbourhoods in Gaza.
Using satellite imagery and open-source evidence, the investigation found damage to more than 250 residential buildings, 17 schools and universities, 16 mosques, three hospitals, three cemeteries and 150 agricultural greenhouses.
Entire buildings have been levelled, fields flattened and places of worship wiped off the map in the course of Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza, launched after the Hamas attack on Israel on 7 October.
- (New Yorker; Isaac Chortiner interview) A Pediatrician’s Two Weeks Inside a Hospital in Gaza (with Dr Seema Jilani)
We worked alongside the Palestinian physicians and nurses there, and we really think it’s important to work alongside them and learn from them. We were in one of the last enduring emergency rooms in central Gaza. Within the two weeks that I was there, I saw it go from a semi-functional hospital to a barely or nonfunctional hospital as a result of increasing violence in surrounding areas and, eventually, evacuation notices started coming through.
In the first few hours of my work, I treated an approximately one-year-old boy. His right arm and right leg had been blown off by a bomb, and flesh was still hanging off the foot. He had a bloodstained diaper, which remained, but there was no leg below. I treated the baby while he lay on the ground. There were no stretchers available because all the beds had already been taken, considering that many people were also trying to use the hospital as a shelter or safe space for their families. Next to him there was a man who was on his last breaths. He had been actively dying for the last twenty-four hours, and flies were already on him. All the while, a woman was brought in and was declared dead on arrival. This one-year-old had blood pouring into his chest cavity. He needed a chest tube so he wouldn’t asphyxiate on his own blood. But there were neither chest tubes nor blood-pressure cuffs that were available in pediatric sizes. No morphine had been given in the chaos, and it wasn’t even available. This patient in America would’ve immediately gone to the O.R., but instead the orthopedic surgeon bandaged the stumps up and said he couldn’t take him to the operating theatre right now because there were more pressing emergencies. And I tried to imagine what was more pressing than a one-year-old with no hand and no legs who was choking on his own blood. So that, to me, was symbolic of the impossible choices inflicted on the doctors of Gaza, and how truly cataclysmic that situation is.
- (New York Review; Sari Bashi) Gaza: Two Rights of Return
My mother-in-law has a right to choose where to return—to the home she lost in October or to where she lost her home in 1948. If US policymakers want to hew closely to international human rights law, they should not only oppose forcible displacement from northern Gaza, as they have appropriately done, but also support the right of refugees to decide for themselves where to return and rebuild, including in areas that are now part of Israel. That’s because the right of return—enshrined in UN General Assembly Resolution 194 and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights—persists even when sovereignty over a territory has changed hands, as long as refugees and their descendants, regardless of where they were born, have maintained enough links with the area that it would be considered their “own country.” That right can’t be negotiated away.
- and another one from David Klion: The American Jewish Left in Exile
The young, non-Zionist Jewish left has been able to protest the collective punishment of Gaza at the cost of often painful alienation from the American Jewish mainstream those organizations represent. Aside from a few relatively small magazines, activist groups, and scattered individual anti-Zionist congregations, there seem to be few institutions where we can congregate as Jews, and few occasions for us to speak and to be counted as fully welcome members of the Jewish community. In the eyes of most elected officials, meanwhile, that community is the sum of its major denominations and donor-funded institutions, virtually none of which reflect the feelings of the Jewish left toward Israel. For all the progress anti-Zionist Jewish activists have made, they have yet to win over the sitting Democratic president or the majority of Democrats in Congress, let alone any Republicans. So when Kurtzer warns that “the Jewish left will have no seats at any tables besides the ones they set for themselves,” those of us who identify with the Jewish left need to take seriously the possibility that he’s right.
(2016 Warscapes piece - relevant now that the old talking point about UNRWA-run schools are teaching antisemitic content) Textbook Racism; a canon of division in Israeli education
Nurit Peled: Since the 50s, there has been no change in ideology, but maybe there is a change in the level of representation. The attitude was always racist, and today, it is sadly regressive. In the ‘90s, there were historians who would go ahead with objective projects and present truth as it was in history, albeit without renouncing their Zionist ideology. But today, work in this vein is reduced to political-military manifestos that are often tinged with Biblical phrases. There is deliberate exclusion of Palestinians from school curriculum. For instance, if you say “Israeli culture,” you never mean that the Palestinian is part of it, even though they are 20 percent of the population. They are completely left out of the educational discourse.
The representation of the Palestinians is limited. They are stereotyped as “terrorists”; “primitive farmers”; “refugees”; or “nomads” with their camels, in an “Alibaba” dress and described as vile, deviant and criminal – people who don't pay taxes and live off the state. You never see a Palestinian child or doctor or teacher or engineer or modern farmer. The Palestinians are never referred to as Palestinians: They are called “Arabs” in order to emphasize their belonging to a great Arab nation, and thus allowing for the possibility of transferring them to any of the Arab countries.
What becomes dangerous is the stamp of legitimacy that such representations get from official corridors and educational institutions inside Israel. The killings of Palestinian children, youth or adults is justified and legitimized with the “utility discourse,” which states that if the Palestinians are an obstacle to the Jewish State, then their elimination is crucial. This creation of utility to the killers is worrisome because people blindly accept it. The discourse on legitimacy and utility is based on Palestinians not being recognized as humans, but rather sub-humans – as terrorists. The children are taught that the grief of Palestinians is not like grief of the Jews: Palestinians are different; they are the “other,” the “foreigner” in the land of Israel.
This is the kind of blatant racism that the Palestinians live with. It’s everyday racism. It manifests itself at all levels – social, cultural and political.
To be read together with this 2019 Haaretz piece: UNRWA Report Finds anti-Israel Bias in 3 Percent of Palestinian Textbooks - The review did not find any cases of incitement, and majority of bias issues were related to maps and the status of Jerusalem
---
A [US] State Department report on the UN agency that delivers relief and education to Palestinian refugees uncovered cases of anti-Israel and other bias in 3.1 percent of Palestinian textbooks.
Nevertheless, the April 2018 State Department report on UNRWA, covering the 2015-17 period, faults the agency and a previous State Department report for saying that UNRWA had successfully disseminated complementary materials and had completed teacher training.
The report was declassified this week at the request of two Republican congressmen, Representatives Scott Perry of Pennsylvania and Lee Zeldin of New York.
(...) An annex detailing the problematic passages did not appear in the report posted by Zeldin and Perry, but the report said that “more than half of the neutrality/bias issues it found” were related to maps, the status of Jerusalem and other cities, “for example, regional maps that exclude Israel, and refer to Israeli cities as Palestinian.” Other neutrality issues had to do with gender.
The UNRWA review did not find any cases of incitement, the report said.
(...) The Palestinian Authority provides all but English textbooks to the UNRWA schools, part of its contribution to the agency. UNRWA spends less than 1 percent of its education expenditures on textbooks.
- (Vice reporting of the Israeli journalism shared previously) Israeli Intelligence Has Deemed Hamas-Run Health Ministry's Death Toll Figures Generally Accurate
- (Guardian; Peter Beinart) Why do America’s liberal hawks attack Russia while giving Israel a free pass?
This worldview contains important truths. Russia and China are far more authoritarian than the United States and many of its key European and Asian allies. They’re also far more authoritarian than Ukraine and Taiwan, imperiled democracies that deserve to chart their own path free from imperialistic aggression. Whether or not one agrees with the policies that Applebaum, Boot and McFaul advocate in Eastern Europe and East Asia, they’re aimed at defending liberal democracy – a commitment that extends to the United States, where all three writers staunchly oppose Donald Trump.
But liberal hawks have a problem: the borderlands of Russia and China are not the entire world. In the global south, especially, the geopolitical boundaries between the US and its adversaries don’t map easily onto the moral boundaries between freedom and tyranny. When discussing countries outside of Europe or East Asia, liberal hawks often strain to shoehorn them into a worldview that associates America and its allies with democracy’s cause.
(...) Never have these ideological contortions been as conspicuous as during Israel’s war in Gaza. Liberal hawks often profess their commitment to human rights. Yet they haven’t called for ending a war that is killing more people per day than any conflict this century. They haven’t done so because, like their allies in the Biden administration, they are wedded to a narrative about the moral superiority of American power that this war defies.
Liberal hawks want to preserve American primacy, which they associate with human progress. But Israel-Palestine reveals a harsher truth: that in much of the world, for many decades, the US has used its power not to defend freedom but to deny it. That’s why liberal hawks can’t face the true horror of this war. Doing so would require them to reconsider their deepest assumptions about America’s role in the world.
- (Guardian; Hala Alyan) ‘I am not there and I am not here’: a Palestinian American poet on bearing witness to atrocity
What is the role of the diasporic witness? To remain steadfast in what she has seen, what she has understood and learned. To remain undistracted. I write a poem. I write another poem. I cut my hair. I watch a young child’s skin burn from white phosphorus. I spend my time on the L train clicking through headlines. I construct arguments that go nowhere. I give talks about endurance, about reorienting our thinking around care, about building our capacity to keep watching. Then I go to a holiday gathering and spend two hours trying to convince a woman why withholding water in Gaza is a war crime. Eventually, she acknowledges that this is terrible – if that is the case. I decide this scaffolded concession is the best I’ll get, and pretend to take a phone call.
(...) The thing about diaspora is that the option of looking away is a trick mirror – doing it is never a relief. In the courtroom, on our phones, in the streets: a witness who does not speak, does not act, does not remember, cannot be called upon.
~
What the diasporic witness must remember: our claim to the land is non-negotiable. It requires no permission. It requires no mediation. I don’t need that claim sanctioned by anyone. That is where my grandparents lived. Their grandparents. Their grandparents. You can destroy all the libraries and archives and villages in the world, you can make return impossible, you can rename a city, you can blow up a university, refashion a history book, and it still won’t change that fact.
---
Previously shared was this 972 piece ("Israeli police repressing anti-war protests with ‘iron fist,’ say activists") and with yesterday's hospital raid, it's reminding me how every state with an occupation or colonial portfolio inevitably imports back those same methods to police its own citizens. Be it hard like this (or dispensing chemical weapons in a student protest) or soft (eg editorial controls in media), it's inevitable because those individuals will need to return. A lot has been written about institutional impacts on to policing specific to defence contracts, but there's a lot to consider with regards to the society at large too, and it's not even that much in the historical rearview e.g. Iraqi and Vietnam war vets.
posted by cendawanita at 2:16 AM on January 31 [12 favorites]
- (Guardian) Swedish music stars call for Israel Eurovision ban over Gaza
- (Historical Materialism; Benjamin Balthaser) Not Your Good Germans - Holocaust Memory, Anti-Fascism, and the anti-Zionism of the Jewish New Left
Finkel's formation is one I encountered often while reading memoirs and interviewing Jewish activists who were part of the New Left of the 1960s and early 1970s. In another interview with Susan Eanet (now Klonsky), a former Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) activist and founder of the Revolutionary Youth Movement (RYM) and later the new communist October League, explained her own dedication to Palestinian liberation through Holocaust memory. After talking for several hours in her northwest Chicago home about her Jewish upbringing, about her father who was a founder of a liberal temple in Washington D.C., and about how that related to her anti-Zionist writings for the SDS newspaper New Left Notes, she finally explained: "we couldn't be good Germans."[4] Jews, she said, more than anyone, should know the price of the world's silence as a genocide is taking place. Tellingly, also Mark Rudd framed his resistance to the Vietnam War in the exact same way in his memoir of SDS, saying he "can't be a good German.”[5] "In my home, as in millions of Jewish homes, "Hitler" was the name for Absolute Evil," Rudd explains, going to further to say "only this time, it was us, the Americans."
Like Klonsky, Rudd evoked the Holocaust not to suggest that Jews are special victims of a unique tragedy or to justify or rationalize their behavior, but to explain why they felt a personal responsibility to oppose fascism and colonialism done in their name, either as Jews and/or Americans. Shortly after her release from prison, for Weather Underground member Kathy Boudine recollected that her decision to support the Black Liberation Army's campaign of bank robberies and jailbreaks rested on her analysis that America was in the process of committing multiple genocides and that she, like Rudd and Klonsky, thought "a lot about Germany" during the Holocaust: "how do you live a life when your government is doing what its doing?"[6] In other words, she neither could be a "good German."
- (Arab-American Institute; Dr James Zogby) Working for a Ceasefire, From the Bottom Up
More significant, and somewhat unexpected, are the numbers of City Councils who have taken up the call for a ceasefire. Led by grassroots mobilizations of Palestinian Americans, progressive Jewish groups, and Black activists, major cities like Atlanta, San Francisco, Minneapolis, Detroit, Seattle, St Louis, and three dozen other municipalities have passed strong ceasefire resolutions. And while a vote on a similar resolution has been delayed for a few days in Chicago, the US’s third largest city and home of this year’s Democratic National Convention, that city’s Mayor, Brandon Johnson, this week issued a strong call in support of a ceasefire.
Because the language used by Mayor Johnson was so evocative it warrants consideration. Echoing the sentiments of his voters, he not only expressed his horror at the loss of life, but also tied the liberation of Blacks with the justifiable need for Palestinian liberation.
(Rampant) The West Calls for Famine in Gaza
Like in Ireland in 1845, India in 1876, and countless other horrific instances in the history of colonial rule, the cause of the current famine in Gaza is not a lack of food, nor is it a lack of potential life-saving aid. Rather, as in centuries past, famine has arrived by the steady hands of a colonizing power (in this case two such powers). These states have nurtured the conditions for its rise, blocked international organizations from any and all prevention efforts, and, in the moment the warnings were loudest, acted to block the meager aid that could’ve lessened it.
- (Guardian) How war destroyed Gaza’s neighbourhoods – visual investigation
A Guardian investigation has detailed the mass destruction of buildings and land in three neighbourhoods in Gaza.
Using satellite imagery and open-source evidence, the investigation found damage to more than 250 residential buildings, 17 schools and universities, 16 mosques, three hospitals, three cemeteries and 150 agricultural greenhouses.
Entire buildings have been levelled, fields flattened and places of worship wiped off the map in the course of Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza, launched after the Hamas attack on Israel on 7 October.
- (New Yorker; Isaac Chortiner interview) A Pediatrician’s Two Weeks Inside a Hospital in Gaza (with Dr Seema Jilani)
We worked alongside the Palestinian physicians and nurses there, and we really think it’s important to work alongside them and learn from them. We were in one of the last enduring emergency rooms in central Gaza. Within the two weeks that I was there, I saw it go from a semi-functional hospital to a barely or nonfunctional hospital as a result of increasing violence in surrounding areas and, eventually, evacuation notices started coming through.
In the first few hours of my work, I treated an approximately one-year-old boy. His right arm and right leg had been blown off by a bomb, and flesh was still hanging off the foot. He had a bloodstained diaper, which remained, but there was no leg below. I treated the baby while he lay on the ground. There were no stretchers available because all the beds had already been taken, considering that many people were also trying to use the hospital as a shelter or safe space for their families. Next to him there was a man who was on his last breaths. He had been actively dying for the last twenty-four hours, and flies were already on him. All the while, a woman was brought in and was declared dead on arrival. This one-year-old had blood pouring into his chest cavity. He needed a chest tube so he wouldn’t asphyxiate on his own blood. But there were neither chest tubes nor blood-pressure cuffs that were available in pediatric sizes. No morphine had been given in the chaos, and it wasn’t even available. This patient in America would’ve immediately gone to the O.R., but instead the orthopedic surgeon bandaged the stumps up and said he couldn’t take him to the operating theatre right now because there were more pressing emergencies. And I tried to imagine what was more pressing than a one-year-old with no hand and no legs who was choking on his own blood. So that, to me, was symbolic of the impossible choices inflicted on the doctors of Gaza, and how truly cataclysmic that situation is.
- (New York Review; Sari Bashi) Gaza: Two Rights of Return
My mother-in-law has a right to choose where to return—to the home she lost in October or to where she lost her home in 1948. If US policymakers want to hew closely to international human rights law, they should not only oppose forcible displacement from northern Gaza, as they have appropriately done, but also support the right of refugees to decide for themselves where to return and rebuild, including in areas that are now part of Israel. That’s because the right of return—enshrined in UN General Assembly Resolution 194 and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights—persists even when sovereignty over a territory has changed hands, as long as refugees and their descendants, regardless of where they were born, have maintained enough links with the area that it would be considered their “own country.” That right can’t be negotiated away.
- and another one from David Klion: The American Jewish Left in Exile
The young, non-Zionist Jewish left has been able to protest the collective punishment of Gaza at the cost of often painful alienation from the American Jewish mainstream those organizations represent. Aside from a few relatively small magazines, activist groups, and scattered individual anti-Zionist congregations, there seem to be few institutions where we can congregate as Jews, and few occasions for us to speak and to be counted as fully welcome members of the Jewish community. In the eyes of most elected officials, meanwhile, that community is the sum of its major denominations and donor-funded institutions, virtually none of which reflect the feelings of the Jewish left toward Israel. For all the progress anti-Zionist Jewish activists have made, they have yet to win over the sitting Democratic president or the majority of Democrats in Congress, let alone any Republicans. So when Kurtzer warns that “the Jewish left will have no seats at any tables besides the ones they set for themselves,” those of us who identify with the Jewish left need to take seriously the possibility that he’s right.
(2016 Warscapes piece - relevant now that the old talking point about UNRWA-run schools are teaching antisemitic content) Textbook Racism; a canon of division in Israeli education
Nurit Peled: Since the 50s, there has been no change in ideology, but maybe there is a change in the level of representation. The attitude was always racist, and today, it is sadly regressive. In the ‘90s, there were historians who would go ahead with objective projects and present truth as it was in history, albeit without renouncing their Zionist ideology. But today, work in this vein is reduced to political-military manifestos that are often tinged with Biblical phrases. There is deliberate exclusion of Palestinians from school curriculum. For instance, if you say “Israeli culture,” you never mean that the Palestinian is part of it, even though they are 20 percent of the population. They are completely left out of the educational discourse.
The representation of the Palestinians is limited. They are stereotyped as “terrorists”; “primitive farmers”; “refugees”; or “nomads” with their camels, in an “Alibaba” dress and described as vile, deviant and criminal – people who don't pay taxes and live off the state. You never see a Palestinian child or doctor or teacher or engineer or modern farmer. The Palestinians are never referred to as Palestinians: They are called “Arabs” in order to emphasize their belonging to a great Arab nation, and thus allowing for the possibility of transferring them to any of the Arab countries.
What becomes dangerous is the stamp of legitimacy that such representations get from official corridors and educational institutions inside Israel. The killings of Palestinian children, youth or adults is justified and legitimized with the “utility discourse,” which states that if the Palestinians are an obstacle to the Jewish State, then their elimination is crucial. This creation of utility to the killers is worrisome because people blindly accept it. The discourse on legitimacy and utility is based on Palestinians not being recognized as humans, but rather sub-humans – as terrorists. The children are taught that the grief of Palestinians is not like grief of the Jews: Palestinians are different; they are the “other,” the “foreigner” in the land of Israel.
This is the kind of blatant racism that the Palestinians live with. It’s everyday racism. It manifests itself at all levels – social, cultural and political.
To be read together with this 2019 Haaretz piece: UNRWA Report Finds anti-Israel Bias in 3 Percent of Palestinian Textbooks - The review did not find any cases of incitement, and majority of bias issues were related to maps and the status of Jerusalem
---
A [US] State Department report on the UN agency that delivers relief and education to Palestinian refugees uncovered cases of anti-Israel and other bias in 3.1 percent of Palestinian textbooks.
Nevertheless, the April 2018 State Department report on UNRWA, covering the 2015-17 period, faults the agency and a previous State Department report for saying that UNRWA had successfully disseminated complementary materials and had completed teacher training.
The report was declassified this week at the request of two Republican congressmen, Representatives Scott Perry of Pennsylvania and Lee Zeldin of New York.
(...) An annex detailing the problematic passages did not appear in the report posted by Zeldin and Perry, but the report said that “more than half of the neutrality/bias issues it found” were related to maps, the status of Jerusalem and other cities, “for example, regional maps that exclude Israel, and refer to Israeli cities as Palestinian.” Other neutrality issues had to do with gender.
The UNRWA review did not find any cases of incitement, the report said.
(...) The Palestinian Authority provides all but English textbooks to the UNRWA schools, part of its contribution to the agency. UNRWA spends less than 1 percent of its education expenditures on textbooks.
- (Vice reporting of the Israeli journalism shared previously) Israeli Intelligence Has Deemed Hamas-Run Health Ministry's Death Toll Figures Generally Accurate
- (Guardian; Peter Beinart) Why do America’s liberal hawks attack Russia while giving Israel a free pass?
This worldview contains important truths. Russia and China are far more authoritarian than the United States and many of its key European and Asian allies. They’re also far more authoritarian than Ukraine and Taiwan, imperiled democracies that deserve to chart their own path free from imperialistic aggression. Whether or not one agrees with the policies that Applebaum, Boot and McFaul advocate in Eastern Europe and East Asia, they’re aimed at defending liberal democracy – a commitment that extends to the United States, where all three writers staunchly oppose Donald Trump.
But liberal hawks have a problem: the borderlands of Russia and China are not the entire world. In the global south, especially, the geopolitical boundaries between the US and its adversaries don’t map easily onto the moral boundaries between freedom and tyranny. When discussing countries outside of Europe or East Asia, liberal hawks often strain to shoehorn them into a worldview that associates America and its allies with democracy’s cause.
(...) Never have these ideological contortions been as conspicuous as during Israel’s war in Gaza. Liberal hawks often profess their commitment to human rights. Yet they haven’t called for ending a war that is killing more people per day than any conflict this century. They haven’t done so because, like their allies in the Biden administration, they are wedded to a narrative about the moral superiority of American power that this war defies.
Liberal hawks want to preserve American primacy, which they associate with human progress. But Israel-Palestine reveals a harsher truth: that in much of the world, for many decades, the US has used its power not to defend freedom but to deny it. That’s why liberal hawks can’t face the true horror of this war. Doing so would require them to reconsider their deepest assumptions about America’s role in the world.
- (Guardian; Hala Alyan) ‘I am not there and I am not here’: a Palestinian American poet on bearing witness to atrocity
What is the role of the diasporic witness? To remain steadfast in what she has seen, what she has understood and learned. To remain undistracted. I write a poem. I write another poem. I cut my hair. I watch a young child’s skin burn from white phosphorus. I spend my time on the L train clicking through headlines. I construct arguments that go nowhere. I give talks about endurance, about reorienting our thinking around care, about building our capacity to keep watching. Then I go to a holiday gathering and spend two hours trying to convince a woman why withholding water in Gaza is a war crime. Eventually, she acknowledges that this is terrible – if that is the case. I decide this scaffolded concession is the best I’ll get, and pretend to take a phone call.
(...) The thing about diaspora is that the option of looking away is a trick mirror – doing it is never a relief. In the courtroom, on our phones, in the streets: a witness who does not speak, does not act, does not remember, cannot be called upon.
~
What the diasporic witness must remember: our claim to the land is non-negotiable. It requires no permission. It requires no mediation. I don’t need that claim sanctioned by anyone. That is where my grandparents lived. Their grandparents. Their grandparents. You can destroy all the libraries and archives and villages in the world, you can make return impossible, you can rename a city, you can blow up a university, refashion a history book, and it still won’t change that fact.
---
Previously shared was this 972 piece ("Israeli police repressing anti-war protests with ‘iron fist,’ say activists") and with yesterday's hospital raid, it's reminding me how every state with an occupation or colonial portfolio inevitably imports back those same methods to police its own citizens. Be it hard like this (or dispensing chemical weapons in a student protest) or soft (eg editorial controls in media), it's inevitable because those individuals will need to return. A lot has been written about institutional impacts on to policing specific to defence contracts, but there's a lot to consider with regards to the society at large too, and it's not even that much in the historical rearview e.g. Iraqi and Vietnam war vets.
posted by cendawanita at 2:16 AM on January 31 [12 favorites]
WSJ gift link on the ongoing tensions between Netanyahu and the military over the lack of a plan for after the slaughter, and Netanyahu's paralysis because he knows his coalition will fracture instantly if he supports Palestinian control over Gaza. The article's framing is not great (they mention Hamas will likely try to kill anyone who works with the Israelis but don't mention far-right Israeli settlers are also likely to try to kill anyone who pushes for a Palestinian state, like they did to Rabin in 1995), but there's some interesting stuff too.
In the absence of a strategy, Israeli military officials warn that Hamas is already trying to regroup in Gaza City in the enclave’s north, where Israel withdrew several brigades after conquering the area late last year. This week, Israeli forces launched another operation against Hamas in parts of Gaza City they had previously withdrawn from.
“This is why we have all this tension between the military and the government. It’s impossible to achieve the goals of destroying Hamas as a military and political force unless you have an alternative,” said Ofer Fridman, a former Israeli officer and a war-studies expert at King’s College London. “You need a civil authority, a partner. A political decision is necessary.”
posted by mediareport at 3:35 AM on January 31 [5 favorites]
In the absence of a strategy, Israeli military officials warn that Hamas is already trying to regroup in Gaza City in the enclave’s north, where Israel withdrew several brigades after conquering the area late last year. This week, Israeli forces launched another operation against Hamas in parts of Gaza City they had previously withdrawn from.
“This is why we have all this tension between the military and the government. It’s impossible to achieve the goals of destroying Hamas as a military and political force unless you have an alternative,” said Ofer Fridman, a former Israeli officer and a war-studies expert at King’s College London. “You need a civil authority, a partner. A political decision is necessary.”
posted by mediareport at 3:35 AM on January 31 [5 favorites]
I've totally overlooked bringing this up, but this is also on the ICJ docket since early 2023: Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory'. The site has a bad habit of keeping everything in PDFs but here's a text/html version of the November 2023 press release (you read the date right. Timing is everything) on Reliefweb:
It is recalled that in its Order of 3 February 2023, the Court, pursuant to Article 66, paragraph 4, of its Statute, fixed 25 October 2023 as the time-limit within which States and organizations having presented written statements in the proceedings might submit written comments on the written statements made by other States or organizations. Fourteen written comments were filed in the Registry within this time-limit by (in order of receipt): Jordan, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, Qatar, Belize, Bangladesh, the observer State of Palestine, the United States of America, Indonesia, Chile, the League of Arab States, Egypt, Algeria, Guatemala and Namibia.
In addition, the President of the Court decided, on an exceptional basis, to authorize the late filing of the written comments of Pakistan on 2 November 2023.
The public hearings for this is scheduled for 19 February.
Coincidentally: (OpinioJuris) The ICJ Goes Viral: Transparency and Sensationalism in South Africa v. Israel.
posted by cendawanita at 5:21 AM on January 31 [4 favorites]
It is recalled that in its Order of 3 February 2023, the Court, pursuant to Article 66, paragraph 4, of its Statute, fixed 25 October 2023 as the time-limit within which States and organizations having presented written statements in the proceedings might submit written comments on the written statements made by other States or organizations. Fourteen written comments were filed in the Registry within this time-limit by (in order of receipt): Jordan, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, Qatar, Belize, Bangladesh, the observer State of Palestine, the United States of America, Indonesia, Chile, the League of Arab States, Egypt, Algeria, Guatemala and Namibia.
In addition, the President of the Court decided, on an exceptional basis, to authorize the late filing of the written comments of Pakistan on 2 November 2023.
The public hearings for this is scheduled for 19 February.
Coincidentally: (OpinioJuris) The ICJ Goes Viral: Transparency and Sensationalism in South Africa v. Israel.
posted by cendawanita at 5:21 AM on January 31 [4 favorites]
Here's an archive link to the paywalled NY Review of Books piece by David Klion just above; it's very good, exploring "diasporism" as an alternative to Zionism, among other topics.
posted by mediareport at 5:45 AM on January 31 [3 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 5:45 AM on January 31 [3 favorites]
One of the "Read Next"/related articles in the footer of the NYRB essay by David Klion is the following (note the date):
Gail Pressberg
Israel and the Occupied Territories: An Urgent Appeal by the ICRC
May 18, 1989 issue
This isn't the first time i've been struck by the dates and headlines on related articles underneath post-October-7 news articles about Palestine, but it was a particularly salient one.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:49 AM on January 31 [3 favorites]
Gail Pressberg
Israel and the Occupied Territories: An Urgent Appeal by the ICRC
May 18, 1989 issue
This isn't the first time i've been struck by the dates and headlines on related articles underneath post-October-7 news articles about Palestine, but it was a particularly salient one.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:49 AM on January 31 [3 favorites]
Bosnian-Serbian author Lana Bastašić cut ties with her German publisher last month over their silence about Palestine (and Germany's growing suppression of pro-Palestinian voices); this month a residency program in Austria, which had invited her for a reading and fellowship, disinvited her because of it. She wrote a response which is worth reading in its entirety.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:01 AM on January 31 [11 favorites]
…It is my political and human opinion that children should not be slaughtered and that German cultural institutions should know better when it comes to genocide. You should also know that you have now added yourselves to the long and infamous list of cultural institutions which cancel artists who refuse to stay silent when the world is screaming.
I do not know what literature means to you outside of networking and grants. To me it means, first and foremost, an unwavering love for human beings and the sanctity of human life.…
(Ukraine did not acquit itself well today, with most of the outcomes hinged on their arguments not being convincing enough for the judges. The judges votes were also varied and not so unanimous across the board. This could be both a reflection on the quality/merits of Ukraine's suit but also, well, even Russia could convince the court to the extent Israel couldn't. But maybe I ought to wait if that's a more a appropriate conclusion for the genocide-related suit in two days)
In the meantime:
- Mutual Aid Diabetics for Gaza
- Apparently Israel have started publishing public figures of military fatalities
- The motion to expel Ofer Cassif passed
- Palestinians found at least 30 bodies dumped inside a schoolyard inside black plastic bags, in deteriorated/decomposed states. The person whose tweet I first saw, Hossam Shabbat, separately posted: One of my daily tasks in the north is burying dead and decomposed bodies. Israeli forces have killed hundreds in the most horrific way, and almost daily we find a dead body that we need to decide where to bury. Never did I think this would be my life at 21. In order to move forward, I have to convince myself that I don’t know whose body this is. In fact, it could be my once neighbor or friend.
- ToI: IDF officially confirms it has been flooding some Hamas tunnels with seawater
- Okay #1: (Newsweek) Israel Implemented More Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties Than Any Other Nation in History
- (ToI) Almost 4 in 10 Israelis back a revival of Jewish settlements in Gaza, poll finds. I got that link from Raphael Mimoun who also recently posted: A close relative just traveled to Israel to be with family.
He said the entire country has turned far-right. People who were on the left, for peace, have adopted a rhetoric until recently considered extreme. The dehumanization of Palestinians is the norm. You never know if people are talking about Hamas or Palestinians. It all blends together. There is 0 interest in Palestinian suffering. People think all Arabs want all Jews dead & Israel is fighting for its survival.
He was shocked at the violence that the police deployed against peaceful demonstrators asking for a ceasefire in Tel Aviv.
He sees how life in Tel Aviv is almost back to normal, yet how everyone is full of fear (he used the word "paranoid").
He is lost, angry, full of despair.
I think he's going through what I went through 10 years ago. He is still trying to reconcile his belief in a 'good' Israel (democratic, peace-loving) with the Israel that exists in the real world.
- Ok #2: (Forward) We must continue to support Israel’s war — and honestly grapple with tough questions from critics
- Ruptures detected: (JTA) Israeli peace group Standing Together says calls to boycott its work are ‘infuriating’
-- the main point of contention really boils down to, can anti-imperialist/colonial work align with liberal colonials even as they also are under threat? I don't think it's an easy marriage but one point where I did just, well, chinhands at, is where the Israeli left of Standing Together is clearly against boycott/sanctions because it's a form of collective punishment. Yes. Well.
- (Toronto Star) How Israel's 'scholasticide' denies Palestinians their past, present and future
- I have to go to sleep but security council action is happening right now. Apparently the countries' delegates don't uniformly agree if ICJ's order indicate a ceasefire.
- something interesting that I'll try to make a more citational comment later (or others can do it, if they've encountered the same news) - per this update from the UK, a number of those announcements to pause UNRWA funding had no impact on current funding cycles, so it's just for .... PR?
posted by cendawanita at 10:19 AM on January 31 [8 favorites]
In the meantime:
- Mutual Aid Diabetics for Gaza
- Apparently Israel have started publishing public figures of military fatalities
- The motion to expel Ofer Cassif passed
- Palestinians found at least 30 bodies dumped inside a schoolyard inside black plastic bags, in deteriorated/decomposed states. The person whose tweet I first saw, Hossam Shabbat, separately posted: One of my daily tasks in the north is burying dead and decomposed bodies. Israeli forces have killed hundreds in the most horrific way, and almost daily we find a dead body that we need to decide where to bury. Never did I think this would be my life at 21. In order to move forward, I have to convince myself that I don’t know whose body this is. In fact, it could be my once neighbor or friend.
- ToI: IDF officially confirms it has been flooding some Hamas tunnels with seawater
- Okay #1: (Newsweek) Israel Implemented More Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties Than Any Other Nation in History
- (ToI) Almost 4 in 10 Israelis back a revival of Jewish settlements in Gaza, poll finds. I got that link from Raphael Mimoun who also recently posted: A close relative just traveled to Israel to be with family.
He said the entire country has turned far-right. People who were on the left, for peace, have adopted a rhetoric until recently considered extreme. The dehumanization of Palestinians is the norm. You never know if people are talking about Hamas or Palestinians. It all blends together. There is 0 interest in Palestinian suffering. People think all Arabs want all Jews dead & Israel is fighting for its survival.
He was shocked at the violence that the police deployed against peaceful demonstrators asking for a ceasefire in Tel Aviv.
He sees how life in Tel Aviv is almost back to normal, yet how everyone is full of fear (he used the word "paranoid").
He is lost, angry, full of despair.
I think he's going through what I went through 10 years ago. He is still trying to reconcile his belief in a 'good' Israel (democratic, peace-loving) with the Israel that exists in the real world.
- Ok #2: (Forward) We must continue to support Israel’s war — and honestly grapple with tough questions from critics
- Ruptures detected: (JTA) Israeli peace group Standing Together says calls to boycott its work are ‘infuriating’
-- the main point of contention really boils down to, can anti-imperialist/colonial work align with liberal colonials even as they also are under threat? I don't think it's an easy marriage but one point where I did just, well, chinhands at, is where the Israeli left of Standing Together is clearly against boycott/sanctions because it's a form of collective punishment. Yes. Well.
- (Toronto Star) How Israel's 'scholasticide' denies Palestinians their past, present and future
- I have to go to sleep but security council action is happening right now. Apparently the countries' delegates don't uniformly agree if ICJ's order indicate a ceasefire.
- something interesting that I'll try to make a more citational comment later (or others can do it, if they've encountered the same news) - per this update from the UK, a number of those announcements to pause UNRWA funding had no impact on current funding cycles, so it's just for .... PR?
posted by cendawanita at 10:19 AM on January 31 [8 favorites]
The UNRWA defunding has completely displaced the ICJ provisional ruling off the headlines, as was the intention of the move. Thousands of Palestinians must die and die horribly, lest Israel suffer international embarrassment within the structures that the West itself created.Séamus Malekafzali on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:57 PM on January 31 [1 favorite]
There is so much horror being perpetrated on Palestinians just in the last 72 hours that i would be here all day if i tried to post it. I'm trying to help with links and such but i'm steadily losing my grip on sanity.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:38 PM on January 31 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:38 PM on January 31 [4 favorites]
FWIW I can understand the value of posting links and also the feeling that we have to take some kind of action but I also think having a wall of links in these threads from just a couple people actually limits participation from others, and also we may have a false sense of action from posting. I'm here for more sharing the emotional side - how painful it is - and pointing folks toward action they can plug into. Anyone have links to actions that people can be part of?
posted by latkes at 7:05 AM on February 1 [4 favorites]
posted by latkes at 7:05 AM on February 1 [4 favorites]
Anyone have links to actions that people can be part of?
In Texas, there's a huge rally happening this Sunday at the Capitol.
Also in Texas, the AFL-CIO just called for a ceasefire. My smaller union also did. This was due to the advocacy of workers. If you are in a union, you can push your union to do the same. If you're not in a union and you're in the US, you can get help organizing your workplace.
Cities are also calling for ceasefires. If your city hasn't, call your council members!
posted by tofu_crouton at 8:05 AM on February 1 [4 favorites]
In Texas, there's a huge rally happening this Sunday at the Capitol.
Also in Texas, the AFL-CIO just called for a ceasefire. My smaller union also did. This was due to the advocacy of workers. If you are in a union, you can push your union to do the same. If you're not in a union and you're in the US, you can get help organizing your workplace.
Cities are also calling for ceasefires. If your city hasn't, call your council members!
posted by tofu_crouton at 8:05 AM on February 1 [4 favorites]
According to Semafor, Reuters is reporting the possibility of a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas.
posted by toastyk at 10:37 AM on February 1 [1 favorite]
posted by toastyk at 10:37 AM on February 1 [1 favorite]
Hamas gives initial approval for Gaza ceasefire, hostage deal - Qatar.
posted by clavdivs at 1:02 PM on February 1
posted by clavdivs at 1:02 PM on February 1
In a sign of the seriousness of the proposal, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh has said he will travel to Cairo to discuss it, although no firm date has been given for his trip.
I assume that it will take some time for him to procure food tasters, full-body Kevlar suits and enough heavily armed bodyguards to fill a football stadium.
posted by delfin at 1:51 PM on February 1
I assume that it will take some time for him to procure food tasters, full-body Kevlar suits and enough heavily armed bodyguards to fill a football stadium.
posted by delfin at 1:51 PM on February 1
That reminds me, I was too young to follow the nitty gritty of the time at the time, but I was listening to a Chris Hedges talk from this last month, and he mentioned that it's been a belief of his and others who covered the beat then that Yasser Arafat was probably poisoned. So this is a thing that I guess I TIL.
posted by cendawanita at 5:46 PM on February 1
posted by cendawanita at 5:46 PM on February 1
That reminds me, I was too young to follow the nitty gritty of the time at the time, but I was listening to a Chris Hedges talk from this last month, and he mentioned that it's been a belief of his and others who covered the beat then that Yasser Arafat was probably poisoned. So this is a thing that I guess I TIL.
I recall that being widely discussed at the time.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:19 PM on February 1 [1 favorite]
I recall that being widely discussed at the time.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:19 PM on February 1 [1 favorite]
(Side note: I’m greatly appreciating the detailed news link comments. Here in Canada, our regular news sources have been about as good at reporting on the genocide in Gaza as US news sources. Prior to a year ago, I got most of my more leftist political news through my very carefully curated Facebook feed; but Facebook doesn’t let us in Canada post links from any url that it deems a news site anymore, nor view any such links when posted by non-Canadians. Which means the links my leftist Facebook comrades are posting tend to be a lot more random and sometimes of questionable reputability or accuracy. I do look up Al Jazeera periodically, but these threads have been a very helpful source of some pre-vetted news for me (including introducing me to some other news sites from the region) and have kept me much better informed than would otherwise be the case.)
posted by eviemath at 6:35 PM on February 1 [9 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 6:35 PM on February 1 [9 favorites]
Al Jazeera regularly covers daily events in the theater of war and internationally as well.
posted by StarkRoads at 6:59 PM on February 1 [1 favorite]
posted by StarkRoads at 6:59 PM on February 1 [1 favorite]
It's worth expanding one's sources for sure - Al-Jazeera is useful but don't forget its Qatari state background. It's still a useful and legitimate counterpoint though for this issue (don't ask about Yemen lol). And the Israeli press as well as Palestinians on the ground. Even more than the Ukrainian invasion this is not a theatre where it's easy to assume legitimacy of sources. And remember how early on so much ground reporting was dismissed, and how much FUD was par of the course to contribute to a chilling effect? For myself, if I share, it's also to spark discussion as well as mutual knowledge, esp with all these commentaries are captured in fairly fragile platforms so even if a fraction is kept (security through redundancy I guess) then at least the next time this happens again, the FUD wouldn't come so strongly uncontested right out of the gate.
posted by cendawanita at 7:20 PM on February 1 [6 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 7:20 PM on February 1 [6 favorites]
Per Rami Ayari, as apparently even Al-Jazeera scrubbed updates of an imminent ceasefire (quoting this video): Here is exactly what the Qatari Foreign Ministry Spox said and unfortunately it is not a ceasefire agreement but rather another humanitarian pause agreement which is not yet finalized: "The meeting in Paris succeeded in consolidating the proposals on the table into one proposal. That proposal has been approved by the Israeli side and now we have an initial positive confirmation from the Hamas side also of a general framework. It will represent a general understanding of how the next pause, the coming humanitarian pause, would look like. It does not include a lot of the details that still need to be discussed. But we are optimistic that we are now at a point - it has eluded us for about two months now to get to a point where both sides agree on the principles of how the pause is going to look like. There's still a very tough road in front of us. But we are optimistic because both sides now have agreed to the premise that would lead to a next pause. We're hopeful that in the next couple of weeks we'll be able to share good news about that. But as I said it's a fluid situation, very complicated, but we remain hopeful."
In the meantime, these ministers are long considered the most moderate/liberal of the lot, however: (Guardian) Israeli ministers reportedly considering limiting aid entering Gaza // (Hebrew reporting by Mako/N12) (ETA: it's Benny Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot)
Coincidentally, Haaretz: Israeli Right-wing Groups Block Trucks Delivering Aid to Gaza, Clash With Arab Drivers
This bit made the rounds: About 150 protesters, including Religious Zionism lawmaker Tzvi Succot, on Thursday morning blocked trucks carrying humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip from leaving Ashdod Port and clashed with Arab truck drivers working in the area.
Some of the protesters, most of whom appeared to be West Bank settlers, were seen shoving truck drivers and harassing them. "I'm the master here, you're the slave," said one of the protesters to a driver during an argument.
Fwiw there's now "Mission Accomplished" signals coming from the IDF, so who knows, maybe there's something about either a ceasefire or a humanitarian pause.
posted by cendawanita at 11:00 PM on February 1 [4 favorites]
In the meantime, these ministers are long considered the most moderate/liberal of the lot, however: (Guardian) Israeli ministers reportedly considering limiting aid entering Gaza // (Hebrew reporting by Mako/N12) (ETA: it's Benny Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot)
Coincidentally, Haaretz: Israeli Right-wing Groups Block Trucks Delivering Aid to Gaza, Clash With Arab Drivers
This bit made the rounds: About 150 protesters, including Religious Zionism lawmaker Tzvi Succot, on Thursday morning blocked trucks carrying humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip from leaving Ashdod Port and clashed with Arab truck drivers working in the area.
Some of the protesters, most of whom appeared to be West Bank settlers, were seen shoving truck drivers and harassing them. "I'm the master here, you're the slave," said one of the protesters to a driver during an argument.
Fwiw there's now "Mission Accomplished" signals coming from the IDF, so who knows, maybe there's something about either a ceasefire or a humanitarian pause.
posted by cendawanita at 11:00 PM on February 1 [4 favorites]
- In this article several members of Black Rose / Rosa Negra offer reflections on their efforts to bring the fight for Palestinian liberation into their long term organizing efforts. Throughout, an emphasis is made on the distinction between temporary mobilization and an orientation toward sustained organizing in sites of everyday life—our workplaces, schools, and neighborhoods. - Deep Organizing Against Genocide: Palestine and Rooted Social Movements
-New Left Review: Ukania and Palestine - ...To me, what the national demos do is bring very large numbers of people and groups together – which energizes them to go off and do different things. So that helps to keep the momentum going. If you don’t have the national demos, there’s a danger that the movement will fragment.
The other thing that will help to sustain the activism is a strong political core, which takes us back to the question of anti-imperialism. I think it’s important for people to see Gaza as integrally related to the wider setup in the Middle East – how it’s shaped by the United States, and to a lesser extent by Britain. So you need public meetings and discussions to develop that critique. And you also need writers and intellectuals to bring the issue into focus. Apparently Ghada Karmi’s 2023 book One State has sold out, and keeps selling out every time new copies are printed, which tells you that people are increasingly aware that the two-state ‘solution’ is a fantasy and are now thinking beyond it.
From Australia (which is currently rife with revelations about an actual organised group that's been coordinating efforts to delegitimize critical voices, with two focal points being the firing of an ABC journalist, and a debunked-today claim about an antisemitic chant caught on video at a protest rally way back in Oct): First Nations activists will share January 26 this year, but not all agree - indigenous activism has long called Australia Day instead as Invasion Day, with planned protests. This year was with a shared Palestinian banner. Also notable, based on the revelations of the Israel lobby in Australia was how one approach has been to coopt indigenous activism through support and partnerships with known activists, and getting smeared otherwise (this is happening on fedi itself, coincidentally)
And from NZ but actually Indonesian news: Indonesian and Papuan protesters call for ‘Palestine independence’ - this is notable because Indonesia is still occupying Papuan territory.
- New Lines Magazine: Jewish Activists Mobilizing Against War Are Finding a New Community - didn't see this shared yet, this predated the David Klion piece.
Bookending this comment with this investigative piece that went viral for the revelation that the OnlyFans guy is the biggest contributor to AIPAC: (Lever News)Inside The Israel Lobby’s New $90 Million War Chest
posted by cendawanita at 11:21 PM on February 1 [8 favorites]
-New Left Review: Ukania and Palestine - ...To me, what the national demos do is bring very large numbers of people and groups together – which energizes them to go off and do different things. So that helps to keep the momentum going. If you don’t have the national demos, there’s a danger that the movement will fragment.
The other thing that will help to sustain the activism is a strong political core, which takes us back to the question of anti-imperialism. I think it’s important for people to see Gaza as integrally related to the wider setup in the Middle East – how it’s shaped by the United States, and to a lesser extent by Britain. So you need public meetings and discussions to develop that critique. And you also need writers and intellectuals to bring the issue into focus. Apparently Ghada Karmi’s 2023 book One State has sold out, and keeps selling out every time new copies are printed, which tells you that people are increasingly aware that the two-state ‘solution’ is a fantasy and are now thinking beyond it.
From Australia (which is currently rife with revelations about an actual organised group that's been coordinating efforts to delegitimize critical voices, with two focal points being the firing of an ABC journalist, and a debunked-today claim about an antisemitic chant caught on video at a protest rally way back in Oct): First Nations activists will share January 26 this year, but not all agree - indigenous activism has long called Australia Day instead as Invasion Day, with planned protests. This year was with a shared Palestinian banner. Also notable, based on the revelations of the Israel lobby in Australia was how one approach has been to coopt indigenous activism through support and partnerships with known activists, and getting smeared otherwise (this is happening on fedi itself, coincidentally)
And from NZ but actually Indonesian news: Indonesian and Papuan protesters call for ‘Palestine independence’ - this is notable because Indonesia is still occupying Papuan territory.
- New Lines Magazine: Jewish Activists Mobilizing Against War Are Finding a New Community - didn't see this shared yet, this predated the David Klion piece.
Bookending this comment with this investigative piece that went viral for the revelation that the OnlyFans guy is the biggest contributor to AIPAC: (Lever News)Inside The Israel Lobby’s New $90 Million War Chest
posted by cendawanita at 11:21 PM on February 1 [8 favorites]
Chris Hedges "The Death of Israel: How a Settler Colonial State Destroyed Itself" (mediasanctuary, YouTube/Piped, 1h19m32s)
posted by flabdablet at 3:17 AM on February 2 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 3:17 AM on February 2 [4 favorites]
Ha'aretz has an article about the general incompetence, clout-chasing, and grifting of Zaka, the fundamentalist group whose volunteers are (among other things) more or less the sole sources for the wilder stories of mass sexual violence on October 7th. Those stories were published uncritically and with no real corroboration by the NYT and the WaPo, among other media outlets. (unpaywalled archive link)
More information about Zaka in a thread by Christa Peterson on Twitter (working Nitter archive link), including extensive text captures from Gideon Aran's book The Cult of Dismembered Limbs. Aran's book also delves into the weird sexual fixations of Zaka volunteers, which the Ha'aretz piece does not.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:15 AM on February 2 [6 favorites]
More information about Zaka in a thread by Christa Peterson on Twitter (working Nitter archive link), including extensive text captures from Gideon Aran's book The Cult of Dismembered Limbs. Aran's book also delves into the weird sexual fixations of Zaka volunteers, which the Ha'aretz piece does not.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:15 AM on February 2 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, just days after Belgium announced it would continue to fund UNRWA, Israel bombed the Gaza offices of Enabel, a Belgian NGO providing aid to Palestine. Fortunately they had already been evacuated, so nobody was killed. But this was a completely civilian building, not occupied by any other tenants, and it's pretty clear it's retaliatory.
Belgium has summoned the Israeli ambassador to deliver a formal message, which in the world of diplomacy is actually a bigger deal than it sounds like. Diplomacy is like 99% theatre, but this is an important piece of theatre.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:50 AM on February 2 [14 favorites]
Belgium has summoned the Israeli ambassador to deliver a formal message, which in the world of diplomacy is actually a bigger deal than it sounds like. Diplomacy is like 99% theatre, but this is an important piece of theatre.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:50 AM on February 2 [14 favorites]
Israel's Propaganda Is Being Amplified By Western Media (Novara Media, Piped/YouTube, 21m59s)
posted by flabdablet at 9:21 PM on February 2 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 9:21 PM on February 2 [1 favorite]
News, happenings, and commentaries haven't ended, but I'm surprised to not see any discussions on charitable works yet?
In the meantime, I think I can vouch for the legitimacy of this one, they have been on the ground supplying foodstuffs: Care for Gaza (twitter; Instagram). Currently you can send donations via paypal.
---
Zachary Foster (15 hours ago):
On Jan 26, '2024, the @CIJ_ICJ
ordered Israel to take “all measures in its power” to prevent acts of genocide. Since then:
Feb1-Feb2: 112 Palestinians killed
Jan31-Feb1: 118 Palestinians killed
Jan30-31: 150 Palestinians killed
Jan 29-30: 114 Palestinians kiled
Jan 28-29: 215 Palestinians killed
Jan 26-28: 339 Palestinians killed
(@ochaopt
reporting)
AT LEAST 1,048 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since Israel was ordered to stop killing Palestinians.
posted by cendawanita at 4:44 AM on February 3 [3 favorites]
In the meantime, I think I can vouch for the legitimacy of this one, they have been on the ground supplying foodstuffs: Care for Gaza (twitter; Instagram). Currently you can send donations via paypal.
---
Zachary Foster (15 hours ago):
On Jan 26, '2024, the @CIJ_ICJ
ordered Israel to take “all measures in its power” to prevent acts of genocide. Since then:
Feb1-Feb2: 112 Palestinians killed
Jan31-Feb1: 118 Palestinians killed
Jan30-31: 150 Palestinians killed
Jan 29-30: 114 Palestinians kiled
Jan 28-29: 215 Palestinians killed
Jan 26-28: 339 Palestinians killed
(@ochaopt
reporting)
AT LEAST 1,048 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since Israel was ordered to stop killing Palestinians.
posted by cendawanita at 4:44 AM on February 3 [3 favorites]
For charitable works:
I have contributed to Palestine Children's Relief Fund for years; in the past they have focused on pediatric cancer patients; presently they are on the ground in Gaza.
You can also donate directly to UNRWA, currently under fire for some employees for alleged ties to Hamas that have not yet been backed up with any proof.
Jose Andres' charity World Central Kitchen is also on the ground in Gaza.
Due to constant network interruptions, eSims are in high demand - this is one person's effort to get Gazans connected and they have been covered in news articles.
posted by toastyk at 7:32 AM on February 3 [2 favorites]
I have contributed to Palestine Children's Relief Fund for years; in the past they have focused on pediatric cancer patients; presently they are on the ground in Gaza.
You can also donate directly to UNRWA, currently under fire for some employees for alleged ties to Hamas that have not yet been backed up with any proof.
Jose Andres' charity World Central Kitchen is also on the ground in Gaza.
Due to constant network interruptions, eSims are in high demand - this is one person's effort to get Gazans connected and they have been covered in news articles.
posted by toastyk at 7:32 AM on February 3 [2 favorites]
February 2, 2024:Mohammad Alsaafin on Twitter (screenshots of the op-eds in tweet)
The conservative Wall Street Journal publishes an op-ed calling a largely Arab American city a 'jihad capital'.
The liberal New York Times publishes an op-ed comparing Arabs and Iranians to insects and animals.
Consent is being manufactured, in realtime, for a larger regional war with US participation. All because Joe Biden doesn't want to stop helping Israel commit genocide.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:42 AM on February 3 [6 favorites]
AT LEAST 1,048 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since Israel was ordered to stop killing Palestinians.
And notably the average deaths per day is virtually unchanged since the start of the war. The Israeli government hasn't even slowed the killing.
posted by jedicus at 12:24 PM on February 3 [4 favorites]
And notably the average deaths per day is virtually unchanged since the start of the war. The Israeli government hasn't even slowed the killing.
posted by jedicus at 12:24 PM on February 3 [4 favorites]
The liberal New York Times publishes an op-ed comparing Arabs and Iranians to insects and animals.
Jesus Christ that Friedman op-ed is pure hate speech.
posted by jedicus at 12:31 PM on February 3 [7 favorites]
Jesus Christ that Friedman op-ed is pure hate speech.
posted by jedicus at 12:31 PM on February 3 [7 favorites]
Australian police admit: No evidence of “gas the Jews” chant at Sydney Opera House
(This is a follow-up regarding claims pertaining to a demonstration in Sydney shortly after the Oct 7 attacks)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 4:52 PM on February 3 [3 favorites]
(This is a follow-up regarding claims pertaining to a demonstration in Sydney shortly after the Oct 7 attacks)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 4:52 PM on February 3 [3 favorites]
I saw Adil Haque saying this could be a redline (my words) for Germany, but I've not kept up with the pattern of their public statements and if it's just more concerns ala America:
(DW) Germany's Baerbock warns against Israeli plans for Rafah
German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock has told Israel that a military offensive in the southernmost part of the Gaza Strip would be wrong.
"Taking action now in Rafah, the last and most overcrowded place, as announced by the Israeli defense minister, would simply not be justifiable," the Green Party politician told the RND media organization in remarks published on Saturday.
The Times of Israel newspaper reported that the Israeli military was planning to expand operations into the Rafah area.
The paper quoted Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Galant as saying the IDF would reach the Hamas brigade in Rafah and smash it. Baerbock said she had been shocked to hear of the plans.
"The majority of the victims are women and children. Let's just imagine they are our children," Baerbock told the RND. "Together with our American partners, I have been making it clear to the Israeli government for some time that the people in Gaza cannot disappear into thin air."
posted by cendawanita at 5:54 PM on February 3 [4 favorites]
(DW) Germany's Baerbock warns against Israeli plans for Rafah
German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock has told Israel that a military offensive in the southernmost part of the Gaza Strip would be wrong.
"Taking action now in Rafah, the last and most overcrowded place, as announced by the Israeli defense minister, would simply not be justifiable," the Green Party politician told the RND media organization in remarks published on Saturday.
The Times of Israel newspaper reported that the Israeli military was planning to expand operations into the Rafah area.
The paper quoted Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Galant as saying the IDF would reach the Hamas brigade in Rafah and smash it. Baerbock said she had been shocked to hear of the plans.
"The majority of the victims are women and children. Let's just imagine they are our children," Baerbock told the RND. "Together with our American partners, I have been making it clear to the Israeli government for some time that the people in Gaza cannot disappear into thin air."
posted by cendawanita at 5:54 PM on February 3 [4 favorites]
Fucking hell, Friedman.
I mean, he's always been a totally up-himself know-nothing bloviator entirely too fond of the sound of his own voice, but that caterpillars and parasitic wasps shit is next-level incitement even for him. The fuck is wrong with him?
posted by flabdablet at 9:16 PM on February 3 [6 favorites]
I mean, he's always been a totally up-himself know-nothing bloviator entirely too fond of the sound of his own voice, but that caterpillars and parasitic wasps shit is next-level incitement even for him. The fuck is wrong with him?
posted by flabdablet at 9:16 PM on February 3 [6 favorites]
Jesus Christ that Friedman op-ed is pure hate speech.
Well, the team at WSJ would probably be offended that we're not recognising their efforts:
Jan 31: Chicago Votes for Hamas - Mayor Brandon Johnson supports a cease-fire . . . in Gaza, not Chicago.
The Chicago City Council on Wednesday passed a resolution calling for a cease-fire in Gaza, and Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson cast the tie-breaking vote. Skeptics wonder when the mayor will support a cease-fire on the West Side.
Feb 2: Welcome to Dearborn, America’s Jihad Capital - Imams and politicians in the Michigan city side with Hamas against Israel and Iran against the U.S.
Anyway, I quickly googled to see if this made it on Al-Jazeera but Google says no, so ICYMI: Statement from Nicaragua:
The Government of Reconciliation and National Unity informs the people of Nicaragua and the international community that it has notified the governments of the United Kingdom, Germany, the Netherlands and Canada of its decision to hold them responsible under international law for gross and systematic violations to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, international humanitarian law and customary law, including the law of occupation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, in particular the Gaza Strip.
In this vein, in a note verbal sent to these governments, Nicaragua recalled that the facts and circumstances of the Israeli actions in and against the Palestinians led the International Court of Justice to conclude on 26 January 2024 “that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible. This is the case with respect to the right of the Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III”.
Per the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention, where I found the news:
We highlight the particular attention given by Nicaragua to the escalation of genocidal involvement represented by the decision to defund UNRWA (@UNRWA), which it underscores as an an illegal form of collective punishment with the “apparent objective” of the displacement and destruction of the Palestinian people.
They view this violation as triggering their “corresponding duty to act”, and this analysis is in line with The Lemkin Institute’s statement of 31 January
Speaking of genocide prevention proponents:
(WaPo) USAID’s Samantha Power, genocide scholar, confronted by staff on Gaza
“You wrote a book on genocide and you’re still working for the administration: You should resign and speak out,” said Agnieszka Sykes, a global health specialist who told The Washington Post she left her job at USAID late last week.
Sykes interrupted a speech Power was giving in Washington on climate change and natural disasters to invoke Power’s book “A Problem from Hell.” The Pulitzer Prize-winning work examines and condemns U.S. inaction on various atrocities, from Armenia to Rwanda, spanning several presidential administrations.
(...) During the conversation on Tuesday, a USAID employee, Hannah Funk, questioned whether the United States was squandering its moral authority on the world stage by rushing arms and equipment into Israel during its military campaign.
“The U.S.-funded genocide in Gaza has really left us unable to be moral leaders on climate change and all the other pressing development and humanitarian issues those of us who work at USAID care so much about,” Funk told Power during the question-and-answer session. “How are you leading us to reckon with and overcome this hypocrisy in U.S. foreign policy?”
(...) The interaction marks the first clash between Power and current and former USAID employees at a public event, but she has encountered dissent in other ways. In November, hundreds of USAID employees endorsed a letter calling for a cease-fire in Gaza. Liberal activists at MoveOn are circulating a petition calling on her to resign or return her Pulitzer Prize, considered the preeminent recognition of influential journalism and other published works.
She also came under criticism for not publicly disclosing the killing of a USAID contractor who died after a suspected Israeli strike in Gaza in November. Power has said that in all of her high-level discussions about the conflict, she has made protection of aid workers a priority.
Maybe should have been killed by a Yemeni. Then we can blame Iran too.
posted by cendawanita at 10:00 PM on February 3 [8 favorites]
Well, the team at WSJ would probably be offended that we're not recognising their efforts:
Jan 31: Chicago Votes for Hamas - Mayor Brandon Johnson supports a cease-fire . . . in Gaza, not Chicago.
The Chicago City Council on Wednesday passed a resolution calling for a cease-fire in Gaza, and Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson cast the tie-breaking vote. Skeptics wonder when the mayor will support a cease-fire on the West Side.
Feb 2: Welcome to Dearborn, America’s Jihad Capital - Imams and politicians in the Michigan city side with Hamas against Israel and Iran against the U.S.
Anyway, I quickly googled to see if this made it on Al-Jazeera but Google says no, so ICYMI: Statement from Nicaragua:
The Government of Reconciliation and National Unity informs the people of Nicaragua and the international community that it has notified the governments of the United Kingdom, Germany, the Netherlands and Canada of its decision to hold them responsible under international law for gross and systematic violations to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, international humanitarian law and customary law, including the law of occupation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, in particular the Gaza Strip.
In this vein, in a note verbal sent to these governments, Nicaragua recalled that the facts and circumstances of the Israeli actions in and against the Palestinians led the International Court of Justice to conclude on 26 January 2024 “that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible. This is the case with respect to the right of the Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III”.
Per the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention, where I found the news:
We highlight the particular attention given by Nicaragua to the escalation of genocidal involvement represented by the decision to defund UNRWA (@UNRWA), which it underscores as an an illegal form of collective punishment with the “apparent objective” of the displacement and destruction of the Palestinian people.
They view this violation as triggering their “corresponding duty to act”, and this analysis is in line with The Lemkin Institute’s statement of 31 January
Speaking of genocide prevention proponents:
(WaPo) USAID’s Samantha Power, genocide scholar, confronted by staff on Gaza
“You wrote a book on genocide and you’re still working for the administration: You should resign and speak out,” said Agnieszka Sykes, a global health specialist who told The Washington Post she left her job at USAID late last week.
Sykes interrupted a speech Power was giving in Washington on climate change and natural disasters to invoke Power’s book “A Problem from Hell.” The Pulitzer Prize-winning work examines and condemns U.S. inaction on various atrocities, from Armenia to Rwanda, spanning several presidential administrations.
(...) During the conversation on Tuesday, a USAID employee, Hannah Funk, questioned whether the United States was squandering its moral authority on the world stage by rushing arms and equipment into Israel during its military campaign.
“The U.S.-funded genocide in Gaza has really left us unable to be moral leaders on climate change and all the other pressing development and humanitarian issues those of us who work at USAID care so much about,” Funk told Power during the question-and-answer session. “How are you leading us to reckon with and overcome this hypocrisy in U.S. foreign policy?”
(...) The interaction marks the first clash between Power and current and former USAID employees at a public event, but she has encountered dissent in other ways. In November, hundreds of USAID employees endorsed a letter calling for a cease-fire in Gaza. Liberal activists at MoveOn are circulating a petition calling on her to resign or return her Pulitzer Prize, considered the preeminent recognition of influential journalism and other published works.
She also came under criticism for not publicly disclosing the killing of a USAID contractor who died after a suspected Israeli strike in Gaza in November. Power has said that in all of her high-level discussions about the conflict, she has made protection of aid workers a priority.
Maybe should have been killed by a Yemeni. Then we can blame Iran too.
posted by cendawanita at 10:00 PM on February 3 [8 favorites]
Turns out that the "72 Virgins – Uncensored" Telegram channel was (unsurprisingly, and contrary to earlier denials) being run by elements inside the Israeli military. (article, archived)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:03 AM on February 4 [7 favorites]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:03 AM on February 4 [7 favorites]
Here's a thread from Lara Friedman summarizing what's in the bipartisan Senate national security bill (tl;dr it's real bad, folks):
Total funding in the bill for Israel: $14.1 billion. This is comprised of $10.6 billion in DOD assistance & $3.5 billion in foreign military financing (cash). On all this Israel $$: No restrictions/conditions, no word about 2SS or Israel actions in Gaza or West Bank. In short: a massive infusion of weapons/funding as a free-&-clear gift to Netanyahu & friends, with a clear message re what Israel is doing in Gaza - kol hakovod!posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 3:49 PM on February 5 [12 favorites]
Details of the $10.6 billion in DOD funding for Israel:
>$800+ million for ammunition
>$5.2 billion for weapons systems (Iron Dome, David’s Sling, Iron Beam)
>the balance is included in Israel/Ukraine joint line items
Details of $3.5 billion in FMF for Israel:
> Israel can spend around $770 million in Israel (rather than in US).
> Provision allows Israel to potentially spend full $3.5 billion in Israel
>Authorizes SecState to skip Congressional notification of arms sales under this FMF
But there’s more!
> Secs 602-606 would amend law governing use of US weapons stockpiles (2024 only) to massively increase amounts POTUS can give to Israel (Ex: Section 602 increases a cap from $100 million to $7.8 billion) & to waive congressional notification requirements
Now, the Palestinians:
$$ earmarked in the bill for Palestinians: None.
The bill does earmark $9.2 billion in humanitarian aid Ukraine, Gaza/West Bank, East Africa, South Asia, & elsewhere (does not say how much for each).
Also, the bill:
>bars any funding to UNRWA (including $$ approved in prior laws)
>Adds (in Section 615) multiple new layers of oversight/conditions/monitoring/reporting on what was already the most overseen/conditioned/monitored/reported on US aid program in the world. So while no $$ earmarked for Pals, the bill has lots of space to send a clear F*** Y** message to Palestinian.
And as a reminder: not a single condition or even report required on the $14.1 billion to Israel
Maybe you'll say, "but there are never conditions/reports etc on aid to Israel!" -- & you'd be right! The difference this year: many Senate Dems demanded them. They were ignored. But GOP demands to de-fund UNRWA - that made it into the bill.
Bottom line messages of the bill from Senate leaders:
- zero interest/concern for what Israel does w/ US weapons, or intends w/ respect to Gaza, 2SS, etc
- All hail King Bibi!
- It's always good politics to sh*t on Palestinians, even when they're dying of starvation
you realize that is a treaty in force. not the full Senate bill which the orchestral news hour just told me is still dead.
posted by clavdivs at 4:40 PM on February 5
posted by clavdivs at 4:40 PM on February 5
Alex De Waal: Unless Israel changes course, it could be legally culpable for mass starvation (author interview about the piece)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:43 PM on February 5 [3 favorites]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:43 PM on February 5 [3 favorites]
from Article.
'Gaza is on the brink of famine. If the US and UK fail to use every possible lever to stop the catastrophe, they will be complicit.'
Alex, for Pete's sake what can U.S. do. Alex, it's months into the war and your article is filled with stats. I know, the U.S. can send in a big flotilla and Helo food.
Hi, Americans here were going to violate your airspace and help the people m'kay, yeah, ok great because if you don't you're not going to get your f****** f-35s or anything else. In a crazy pants world is it really crazy pants to violate an aggressors air space to deliver aid with a smile because we're just doing nothing but helping out some people and if you shoot me down welllllll. how hard is that apparently it is quite hard I don't know why could someone tell me why.
another gem from the article.
There is no instance since the second world war in which an entire population has been reduced to extreme hunger and destitution with such speed
really, really, Alex have you ever heard of Cambodia. so let's just chuck out history so you're by line can get more ahs and ooze. really kind of sick of these people obviating because it's just another step back from profiting off the suffering of Palestinian people. we know you mean well alex, by doing good and adhering to the morals, ethics and opinion of most of the world.
posted by clavdivs at 7:19 PM on February 5
'Gaza is on the brink of famine. If the US and UK fail to use every possible lever to stop the catastrophe, they will be complicit.'
Alex, for Pete's sake what can U.S. do. Alex, it's months into the war and your article is filled with stats. I know, the U.S. can send in a big flotilla and Helo food.
Hi, Americans here were going to violate your airspace and help the people m'kay, yeah, ok great because if you don't you're not going to get your f****** f-35s or anything else. In a crazy pants world is it really crazy pants to violate an aggressors air space to deliver aid with a smile because we're just doing nothing but helping out some people and if you shoot me down welllllll. how hard is that apparently it is quite hard I don't know why could someone tell me why.
another gem from the article.
There is no instance since the second world war in which an entire population has been reduced to extreme hunger and destitution with such speed
really, really, Alex have you ever heard of Cambodia. so let's just chuck out history so you're by line can get more ahs and ooze. really kind of sick of these people obviating because it's just another step back from profiting off the suffering of Palestinian people. we know you mean well alex, by doing good and adhering to the morals, ethics and opinion of most of the world.
posted by clavdivs at 7:19 PM on February 5
Alex, for Pete's sake what can U.S. do.
Shutting off the arms and money spigot would be an excellent start.
posted by flabdablet at 7:49 PM on February 5 [9 favorites]
Shutting off the arms and money spigot would be an excellent start.
posted by flabdablet at 7:49 PM on February 5 [9 favorites]
really, really, Alex have you ever heard of Cambodia.
This was definitely shared in an aside, but years ago, I was watching a presentation by I believe Amnesty International, where the panellist mentioned, that while the Cambodian genocide definitely was a historic event in the field of international humanitarian aid, what they had underestimated was the extent to which the tropical (rainforest) climate of my region + the general built infrastructure of the society of the time helped to stave off the worst of the impact of the mass starvation. You're welcome to compare that with the general climate/seasonal weather of Gaza, the built environment that is now in ruins but consequently the result of all that concrete, rebar, sand, land that's been cleared of most green/vegetation/woodlands and now military-grade munitions waste and how famine can result to the extent and speed it's been.
posted by cendawanita at 11:00 PM on February 5 [4 favorites]
This was definitely shared in an aside, but years ago, I was watching a presentation by I believe Amnesty International, where the panellist mentioned, that while the Cambodian genocide definitely was a historic event in the field of international humanitarian aid, what they had underestimated was the extent to which the tropical (rainforest) climate of my region + the general built infrastructure of the society of the time helped to stave off the worst of the impact of the mass starvation. You're welcome to compare that with the general climate/seasonal weather of Gaza, the built environment that is now in ruins but consequently the result of all that concrete, rebar, sand, land that's been cleared of most green/vegetation/woodlands and now military-grade munitions waste and how famine can result to the extent and speed it's been.
posted by cendawanita at 11:00 PM on February 5 [4 favorites]
And how could I forget: the porosity of borders of the Cambodia then + weakness of Khmer Rouge enforcement in tropical jungle environments compared the state of Gaza since 2006 and especially now. There's barely a shadow/pirate/smuggler economy (of which most of it is monopoly of distributed aid).
posted by cendawanita at 11:14 PM on February 5 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 11:14 PM on February 5 [2 favorites]
Alex, for Pete's sake what can U.S. do.
I have to restate the obvious and flabdablet beat me to it, but why posit an action that ranks up there for improbability with "drop a few brigades of peacekeeping Marines into Gaza to sort things out"
clavdivs, why is the US incapable of, or unwilling to, throttle back on financial and material aid to Israel. hell, a strongly worded (if insincere) soundbite from Joe Biden would be something at this point.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:07 AM on February 6 [3 favorites]
I have to restate the obvious and flabdablet beat me to it, but why posit an action that ranks up there for improbability with "drop a few brigades of peacekeeping Marines into Gaza to sort things out"
clavdivs, why is the US incapable of, or unwilling to, throttle back on financial and material aid to Israel. hell, a strongly worded (if insincere) soundbite from Joe Biden would be something at this point.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:07 AM on February 6 [3 favorites]
UK Guardian: CNN staff say network’s pro-Israel slant amounts to ‘journalistic malpractice’
CAIR: Muslim man stabbed in Austin after returning from Palestine protest
really, really, Alex have you ever heard of Cambodia
Interesting you make the comparison with the Cambodian experience. The mortality rate in Gaza has apparently been above that experienced under the Khmer Rouge, at some points in the attack on Gaza. In any event, de Waal is one of the world's leading experts on famine and humanitarian disaster/response, so any attacks on his reputation for daring to analyze the situation in Gaza look pretty silly.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 8:44 AM on February 6 [3 favorites]
CAIR: Muslim man stabbed in Austin after returning from Palestine protest
really, really, Alex have you ever heard of Cambodia
Interesting you make the comparison with the Cambodian experience. The mortality rate in Gaza has apparently been above that experienced under the Khmer Rouge, at some points in the attack on Gaza. In any event, de Waal is one of the world's leading experts on famine and humanitarian disaster/response, so any attacks on his reputation for daring to analyze the situation in Gaza look pretty silly.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 8:44 AM on February 6 [3 favorites]
“I have been quietly working with the Israeli government to get them to reduce and significantly get out of Gaza using all that I can to do that,” Biden said.
that's Democrats speak for I don't know what the f*** I'm doing.
it's a crazy pants world when you have to break several International laws in order to urgently get food to people.
II have no ready answer to that question perhaps we should ask the other 70 or 80 countries that support Israel also.
posted by clavdivs at 8:47 AM on February 6
that's Democrats speak for I don't know what the f*** I'm doing.
it's a crazy pants world when you have to break several International laws in order to urgently get food to people.
II have no ready answer to that question perhaps we should ask the other 70 or 80 countries that support Israel also.
posted by clavdivs at 8:47 AM on February 6
perhaps we should ask the other 70 or 80 countries that support Israel also.
well I sure wish Canada wasn't the weak-ass coward but here we are
but no, I don't think it's necessary to approach 80 other countries on this question
posted by elkevelvet at 9:03 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
well I sure wish Canada wasn't the weak-ass coward but here we are
but no, I don't think it's necessary to approach 80 other countries on this question
posted by elkevelvet at 9:03 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
Japan's Itochu to end cooperation with Israel's Elbit amid Gaza war (Reuters)
posted by kmt at 12:20 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
posted by kmt at 12:20 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
Israel is bombing Rafah especially heavily this morning. (For those of you who remember three months ago, that's where they told everyone to go.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:26 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:26 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
Also numerous media outlets have now seen the "dossier" that Israel provided about UNRWA's "terrorist ties", including the allegations against specific staff members. They have pretty universally stated that it contains no actual evidence of any wrongdoing. (This consensus includes such terrifying bastions of liberalism as the Financial Times, in case you're worried about relying on the BBC and such.)
It's looking more and more like the UNRWA allegations were entirely trumped up to distract attention from the ICJ's preliminary ruling. (Which a lot of us have been saying since it came out, of course.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:31 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
It's looking more and more like the UNRWA allegations were entirely trumped up to distract attention from the ICJ's preliminary ruling. (Which a lot of us have been saying since it came out, of course.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:31 PM on February 6 [12 favorites]
CAIR: Muslim man stabbed in Austin after returning from Palestine protest
And neither the mayor nor UT (where it occurred) have said a peep.
The city council thus far has not followed the suit of other cities in passing a ceasefire resolution, because they said international politics is not their business. Is it still not?
posted by tofu_crouton at 3:57 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
And neither the mayor nor UT (where it occurred) have said a peep.
The city council thus far has not followed the suit of other cities in passing a ceasefire resolution, because they said international politics is not their business. Is it still not?
posted by tofu_crouton at 3:57 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
LRB, long read; Rubble from Bone
Tom Stevenson writes about Operation Iron Swords.
"Israeli tactics have little in common with standard counterinsurgency doctrine or rules of engagement. The war on Gaza is at its core retributive: an act of collective punishment. Like all punishment, to ask whether or not it ‘works’ misses the point that punishment is often an end in itself."
posted by adamvasco at 5:23 AM on February 7 [12 favorites]
Tom Stevenson writes about Operation Iron Swords.
"Israeli tactics have little in common with standard counterinsurgency doctrine or rules of engagement. The war on Gaza is at its core retributive: an act of collective punishment. Like all punishment, to ask whether or not it ‘works’ misses the point that punishment is often an end in itself."
posted by adamvasco at 5:23 AM on February 7 [12 favorites]
For what the US can do - aside from NOT bypassing Congress to send them arms, money, and manpower, the US President can also push back against Israeli leadership, as Republican presidents like Ronald Reagan and the two Bushes before him:
In addition to not vetoing UN resolutions, Reagan took several actions that many in Israel and the United States perceived as anti-Israel. For example, on June 7, 1981, less than six months after Reagan took office, Israel launched a surprise bombing raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, and, in so doing, violated the airspace of Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Reagan not only supported UNSC Resolution 487, which condemned the attack, but he also criticized the raid publicly and suspended the delivery of advanced F-16 fighter jets to Israel. Moreover, over the strident objections of Israel and the pro-Israel U.S. lobby groups, Reagan approved the sale of advanced reconnaissance aircraft (AWACS ) to Saudi Arabia, which Israel then viewed as a hostile state.
A year later, in August 1982, when Israeli forces advanced beyond southern Lebanon and began shelling the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) in Beirut, Reagan responded with an angry call to Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, demanding a halt to the operation.
In addition, during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, Reagan intervened directly when Israel threatened to blow up the Commodore Hotel in downtown Beirut, which housed more than 100 western reporters. As David Ottaway, who was then the Washington Post Middle East correspondent and was in the building, pointed out, the Israeli defense minister did not like the media coverage the invasion was getting and wanted to close down the media center.
Please note this article is dated 5/4/2021. The current paucity of imagination with regards to Palestine and Israel is appalling.
posted by toastyk at 7:12 AM on February 7 [12 favorites]
In addition to not vetoing UN resolutions, Reagan took several actions that many in Israel and the United States perceived as anti-Israel. For example, on June 7, 1981, less than six months after Reagan took office, Israel launched a surprise bombing raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, and, in so doing, violated the airspace of Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Reagan not only supported UNSC Resolution 487, which condemned the attack, but he also criticized the raid publicly and suspended the delivery of advanced F-16 fighter jets to Israel. Moreover, over the strident objections of Israel and the pro-Israel U.S. lobby groups, Reagan approved the sale of advanced reconnaissance aircraft (AWACS ) to Saudi Arabia, which Israel then viewed as a hostile state.
A year later, in August 1982, when Israeli forces advanced beyond southern Lebanon and began shelling the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) in Beirut, Reagan responded with an angry call to Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, demanding a halt to the operation.
In addition, during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, Reagan intervened directly when Israel threatened to blow up the Commodore Hotel in downtown Beirut, which housed more than 100 western reporters. As David Ottaway, who was then the Washington Post Middle East correspondent and was in the building, pointed out, the Israeli defense minister did not like the media coverage the invasion was getting and wanted to close down the media center.
Please note this article is dated 5/4/2021. The current paucity of imagination with regards to Palestine and Israel is appalling.
posted by toastyk at 7:12 AM on February 7 [12 favorites]
meanwhile, Biden: "look, I know I've lost Michigan and this might really fuck me for the EC count, but what else can I do??"
posted by elkevelvet at 7:57 AM on February 7 [6 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 7:57 AM on February 7 [6 favorites]
I can't stress enough that everyone in this thread who still thinks Israel is maybe justified needs to read the article that adamvasco posted.
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:37 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:37 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]
Does anyone happen to have a non-paywalled link to the article? Unfortunately, it cuts off pretty early if you don't have a subscription.
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:25 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:25 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]
archive.today link generated by Bypass Paywalls Clean
posted by flabdablet at 7:46 PM on February 7 [5 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:46 PM on February 7 [5 favorites]
Former Israeli Negotiator Daniel Levy: Only U.S. Pressure on Israel Can End Gaza Assault (Democracy Now!, Piped/YouTube, 24m29s)
posted by flabdablet at 3:35 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 3:35 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]
“Israel’s Self-Destruction,” Aluf Benn, Foreign Affairs, 07 February 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 8:07 AM on February 8 [3 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:07 AM on February 8 [3 favorites]
One factual detail from Tom Stevenson's "Rubble and Bone" (the article adamvasco linked), which i was called a gross terrorism apologist for pointing out a couple of these threads ago:
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:04 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
Tufan al-Aqsa is usually described as a Hamas attack, and it was almost certainly planned and ordered by Yahya Sinwar, Hamas’s leader in Gaza, and the commander of the al-Qassam Brigades, Muhammad Deif. But it was also a collaboration between Gaza’s various militias, with the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades supporting the al-Qassam Brigades and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. These forces were later joined by Gazan irregulars, with the result that organised al-Qassam strike teams exhibiting both military discipline and exemplary violence were accompanied by untrained fighters lacking the former.Assuming that Hamas is a bunch of evil terrorists who love killing civilians has always been eliding a lot of what's actually going on. This is true regardless of how you feel about Hamas!
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:04 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
To repeat your quote from that article - emphasis mine - "These forces were later joined by Gazan irregulars, with the result that organised al-Qassam strike teams exhibiting both military discipline and exemplary violence were accompanied by untrained fighters lacking the former."
You in that earlier thread said the following:
..... much of the civilian violence was perpetrated by unaffiliated militants who came across the border in the chaos left by the main Al-Qassam force. Like it or not, the actual goals of Hamas on 10/7 were to attack legitimate military targets at and near the border.
So:i) do you have a breakdown of how many festival goers were murdered by Hamas (vs the later irregular force) in their crystalline pure-military plan? Because the bulk of massacring (the machine gunning etc) at the festival happened pretty quick, which implies hamas.
"Around 7:00 am, a siren warned of an incoming rocket attack, prompting festivalgoers to flee.Subsequently, armed militants, dressed in military attire and using motorcycles, trucks and powered paragliders, surrounded the festival grounds and indiscriminately fired on individuals attempting to escape. Attendees seeking refuge in nearby locations, such as bomb shelters, bushes, and orchards, were killed while in hiding. Those who reached the road and parking were trapped in a traffic jam as militants fired at vehicles. The militants executed some wounded individuals at point-blank range as they crouched on the ground."
ii) I'm intrigued as to your ascribing "the actual goals of Hamas on 10/7 were to attack legitimate military targets at and near the border".
I thought we didn't do intent here, just consequence (cf. the stated intent of Israel's actions with the stated intent of Hamas). Which set of murderous liars you give more credence to is pretty obvious.
posted by lalochezia at 2:48 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
You in that earlier thread said the following:
..... much of the civilian violence was perpetrated by unaffiliated militants who came across the border in the chaos left by the main Al-Qassam force. Like it or not, the actual goals of Hamas on 10/7 were to attack legitimate military targets at and near the border.
So:i) do you have a breakdown of how many festival goers were murdered by Hamas (vs the later irregular force) in their crystalline pure-military plan? Because the bulk of massacring (the machine gunning etc) at the festival happened pretty quick, which implies hamas.
"Around 7:00 am, a siren warned of an incoming rocket attack, prompting festivalgoers to flee.Subsequently, armed militants, dressed in military attire and using motorcycles, trucks and powered paragliders, surrounded the festival grounds and indiscriminately fired on individuals attempting to escape. Attendees seeking refuge in nearby locations, such as bomb shelters, bushes, and orchards, were killed while in hiding. Those who reached the road and parking were trapped in a traffic jam as militants fired at vehicles. The militants executed some wounded individuals at point-blank range as they crouched on the ground."
ii) I'm intrigued as to your ascribing "the actual goals of Hamas on 10/7 were to attack legitimate military targets at and near the border".
I thought we didn't do intent here, just consequence (cf. the stated intent of Israel's actions with the stated intent of Hamas). Which set of murderous liars you give more credence to is pretty obvious.
posted by lalochezia at 2:48 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
For the record: I have not, not one single time, said it was acceptable that a bunch of Israeli civilians were murdered.
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:04 PM on February 8
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:04 PM on February 8
Mod note: One deleted and the rest left standing. Please do not continue derailing the thread by picking at other commenter’s intentions and do not engage in defending oneself any further. Best practice here is flagging the comment or writing us an email.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 5:52 PM on February 8 [2 favorites]
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 5:52 PM on February 8 [2 favorites]
Israeli lawyer arrested for peaceful protest leaves prison after 110 days. “Their message is clear: this is what awaits those who speak out against the Israeli army’s policy of mass destruction in Gaza”
posted by lalochezia at 6:13 PM on February 8 [4 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 6:13 PM on February 8 [4 favorites]
'Hamas Terrorists Are Comparable to the Khmer Rouge.' by Sam Rainsy.
posted by clavdivs at 7:14 PM on February 8
posted by clavdivs at 7:14 PM on February 8
I can't tell if that Rainsy article is satirical?
The genocide began on April 17, 1975, when the Khmer Rouge gave the two million inhabitants of Phnom Penh 24 hours to evacuate the capital and take refuge in the countryside to escape aerial bombings which they claimed were coming from the Americans. This imperative and immediate evacuation order, with a complete lack of preparation, meant a death sentence for countless sick, disabled, elderly, women in labor, and infants who succumbed along the roads.
Like this bit is clearly drawing a parallel with the IDF's farcical claims that the bombing campaign isn't genocidal because they give warning and demand mass civilian evacuations to no-where.
The cruelty and barbarism of the Khmer Rouge were at least equal to that shown by the Hamas terrorists against the Israeli populations under their control on October 7.
This seems like a clear dig at the Israelis. It's obviously laughable to present the idea of Israeli populations under the control of Hamas terrorists. Unless that's a translation error and the Israelis at the rave are being referred to as a population?
But then it starts getting even more confusing...
To ensure Israel’s survival, which we must all support, we must help this country to avoid continually engaging in the elimination of large segments of the populations living on its borders.
Like, what this means I'm not sure. "Help Israel to stop...elimination of...populations?" Help them to stop? Did the Des Plaines police "help" John Wayne Gacy to stop killing people? It's certainly not seen as helping them by Israel, they call you a terrorist and try and get you blacklisted just for suggesting the idea of not murdering thousands of Palestinians.
posted by Audreynachrome at 8:58 PM on February 8 [2 favorites]
The genocide began on April 17, 1975, when the Khmer Rouge gave the two million inhabitants of Phnom Penh 24 hours to evacuate the capital and take refuge in the countryside to escape aerial bombings which they claimed were coming from the Americans. This imperative and immediate evacuation order, with a complete lack of preparation, meant a death sentence for countless sick, disabled, elderly, women in labor, and infants who succumbed along the roads.
Like this bit is clearly drawing a parallel with the IDF's farcical claims that the bombing campaign isn't genocidal because they give warning and demand mass civilian evacuations to no-where.
The cruelty and barbarism of the Khmer Rouge were at least equal to that shown by the Hamas terrorists against the Israeli populations under their control on October 7.
This seems like a clear dig at the Israelis. It's obviously laughable to present the idea of Israeli populations under the control of Hamas terrorists. Unless that's a translation error and the Israelis at the rave are being referred to as a population?
But then it starts getting even more confusing...
To ensure Israel’s survival, which we must all support, we must help this country to avoid continually engaging in the elimination of large segments of the populations living on its borders.
Like, what this means I'm not sure. "Help Israel to stop...elimination of...populations?" Help them to stop? Did the Des Plaines police "help" John Wayne Gacy to stop killing people? It's certainly not seen as helping them by Israel, they call you a terrorist and try and get you blacklisted just for suggesting the idea of not murdering thousands of Palestinians.
posted by Audreynachrome at 8:58 PM on February 8 [2 favorites]
Rainsy:
I note that that piece was published on October 30th last year, well before it became obvious to everybody that Israel has no hope whatsoever of destroying even the current iteration of Hamas by military means. Also, if memory serves, before Israel started bombing the very places it had told the people it was bombing would be "safe". Were that not the case, then this para would be spectacularly tone deaf:
posted by flabdablet at 9:08 PM on February 8 [3 favorites]
Displaying mutual hatred and to also satisfy a desire for revenge, the leaders of Israel say they want to destroy Hamas. But to truly and definitively achieve this goal, Israel must put an end to the suffering, frustration, and humiliation endured by the Palestinians.I don't think we can "fear" that so much as take it as a well-founded logical conclusion.
Hamas primarily relies on the desperation of these Palestinians, which drives them to try to escape their painful situation by using all means at their disposal, including the most reprehensible, such as terrorism.
The massive bombings carried out by the Israeli air force to “destroy Hamas” by destroying entire neighborhoods in urban centers in the Gaza Strip and inevitably causing countless civilian casualties may be effective in the short term. Still, they contribute to the perpetuation of an armed conflict constantly fueled by the hatred and thirst for revenge on both sides.
After an Israeli strike, one can see Palestinian children stunned and dazed next to the rubble under which their parents or the rest of their families are buried. We can fear that these Palestinian children will one day join the ranks of Hamas or a similar organization if we do not stop the vicious cycle of violence.
To ensure Israel’s survival, which we must all support, we must help this country to avoid continually engaging in the elimination of large segments of the populations living on its borders.No argument from me on that score; the ICJ has just said the same thing.
I note that that piece was published on October 30th last year, well before it became obvious to everybody that Israel has no hope whatsoever of destroying even the current iteration of Hamas by military means. Also, if memory serves, before Israel started bombing the very places it had told the people it was bombing would be "safe". Were that not the case, then this para would be spectacularly tone deaf:
The genocide began on April 17, 1975, when the Khmer Rouge gave the two million inhabitants of Phnom Penh 24 hours to evacuate the capital and take refuge in the countryside to escape aerial bombings which they claimed were coming from the Americans. This imperative and immediate evacuation order, with a complete lack of preparation, meant a death sentence for countless sick, disabled, elderly, women in labor, and infants who succumbed along the roads.And again, if I recall correctly, October 30th was pretty much the height of the discredited "Hamas beheaded babies" propaganda storm, which probably accounts for Rainsy writing this:
The cruelty and barbarism of the Khmer Rouge were at least equal to that shown by the Hamas terrorists against the Israeli populations under their control on October 7. To highlight just one apocalyptic image, the Khmer Rouge executioners would grab infants by their feet and smash their skulls against a pole or a tree.The overall thesis of that article - that longstanding hatred leads people to do appallingly monstrous things - is completely sound. The headline is very poor, as headlines so often are.
posted by flabdablet at 9:08 PM on February 8 [3 favorites]
Ah, I checked for a note about translation or editing but didn't think to look at the date of publication, that does clear a lot of it up. I still find the tone a little confused though.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:19 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:19 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
'Lessons for Israel and Palestine from Cambodia’s transition to democracy'
11-1-23.
While a multinational transitional authority faces many challenges, history shows that the tragedy of war can motivate parties to compromise and take bold new risks to avoid bloodshed. An empowered multinational mandate may offer the only possibility of permanent peace in the Middle East
posted by clavdivs at 10:05 PM on February 8
11-1-23.
While a multinational transitional authority faces many challenges, history shows that the tragedy of war can motivate parties to compromise and take bold new risks to avoid bloodshed. An empowered multinational mandate may offer the only possibility of permanent peace in the Middle East
posted by clavdivs at 10:05 PM on February 8
An interesting viewpoint. But I'm not sure there's much to be learned from the Cambodian experience if the proposal amounts to putting an UNTAC in charge of the killing fields while leaving a KR in power in the capital.
posted by flabdablet at 10:32 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 10:32 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
🚨The Israeli occupation forces deliberately targeted the Palestine Red Crescent team while they were carrying out a coordinated humanitarian mission to evacuate a number of wounded and humanitarian cases in #Gaza, resulting in the killing of paramedic colleague Mohammed Al-Omari and injuring two others. This brings the number of colleagues killed while carrying out their humanitarian work since the beginning of the war on Gaza to 12. #NotATarget❌#IHL
The official Palestine Red Crescent account, on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:40 PM on February 8 [4 favorites]
Like, what this means I'm not sure. "Help Israel to stop...elimination of...populations?" Help them to stop?
To me this wasn't so opaque, and as to why, perhaps this would help: earlier this week back home in South Africa, Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor gave a speech in a mosque in Cape Town, which included two hadiths, one of them being this one collected in the Sahih Bukhari, and this is the version she read out: "Assist your brother and sister Muslim, whether he or she be an oppressor or the oppressed." When asked, "But how shall we assist the oppressor?", the Prophet (may peace be upon him) said, "Assisting an oppressor is by forbidding and withholding that person from oppression."
Lately, thanks to finding that post from Alon Mizrahi, I've been slowly going through this podcast from Israel called Disillusioned. Every episode is with an Israeli who at the point of the interview is firmly anti-occupation (at least) and pro-Palestinian rights. His episode was a useful insight to the race and class dynamics from the point of view of a working class Mizrahi Jew, but every episode has been illuminating for me, because every episode really underscored the notion that the oppression dehumanized not just the victims but also the victimiser. It's also slow-going for me because it's emotionally heavy - the utter decimation faced and still being faced by Palestinians at times feels too huge for my imagination, but I too come from a country that, like India, is playing with ethnofascism. We don't quite have the means or opportunity for militarism but I certainly recognized a society where the act of graffiting was being conducted like a clandestine mission not just because it's practically illegal but also close to being seen as treasonous.
And the last four months have seen me in situations where I'm tearing up in more direct uncomplicated sympathy such as when I watch this video about a Palestinian who's adamant to live in the ruins of her home, but also as I'm watching media like Israelism, for reasons outlined above. The podcast is no different, and especially so because it's an hour-plus of listening the extent of mental damage that we, as part of the rules-based international order, have inflicted on a people. And through that, two peoples are being harmed, one of which not only with actual injury and fatalities at magnitude beyond the other side but regardless even then still suffer the mental damage of not being believed.
That's what I think of, when I think of helping Israel.
(anyway, for mefites in particular, especially for those who're still struggling through it, that podcast is recommended)
posted by cendawanita at 8:03 AM on February 9 [13 favorites]
To me this wasn't so opaque, and as to why, perhaps this would help: earlier this week back home in South Africa, Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor gave a speech in a mosque in Cape Town, which included two hadiths, one of them being this one collected in the Sahih Bukhari, and this is the version she read out: "Assist your brother and sister Muslim, whether he or she be an oppressor or the oppressed." When asked, "But how shall we assist the oppressor?", the Prophet (may peace be upon him) said, "Assisting an oppressor is by forbidding and withholding that person from oppression."
Lately, thanks to finding that post from Alon Mizrahi, I've been slowly going through this podcast from Israel called Disillusioned. Every episode is with an Israeli who at the point of the interview is firmly anti-occupation (at least) and pro-Palestinian rights. His episode was a useful insight to the race and class dynamics from the point of view of a working class Mizrahi Jew, but every episode has been illuminating for me, because every episode really underscored the notion that the oppression dehumanized not just the victims but also the victimiser. It's also slow-going for me because it's emotionally heavy - the utter decimation faced and still being faced by Palestinians at times feels too huge for my imagination, but I too come from a country that, like India, is playing with ethnofascism. We don't quite have the means or opportunity for militarism but I certainly recognized a society where the act of graffiting was being conducted like a clandestine mission not just because it's practically illegal but also close to being seen as treasonous.
And the last four months have seen me in situations where I'm tearing up in more direct uncomplicated sympathy such as when I watch this video about a Palestinian who's adamant to live in the ruins of her home, but also as I'm watching media like Israelism, for reasons outlined above. The podcast is no different, and especially so because it's an hour-plus of listening the extent of mental damage that we, as part of the rules-based international order, have inflicted on a people. And through that, two peoples are being harmed, one of which not only with actual injury and fatalities at magnitude beyond the other side but regardless even then still suffer the mental damage of not being believed.
That's what I think of, when I think of helping Israel.
(anyway, for mefites in particular, especially for those who're still struggling through it, that podcast is recommended)
posted by cendawanita at 8:03 AM on February 9 [13 favorites]
I've listened to one episode, "Katie," but cendawanita is not kidding.. highly recommended, well worth sharing
posted by elkevelvet at 10:27 AM on February 9 [3 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 10:27 AM on February 9 [3 favorites]
Clearing some tabs out:
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:23 PM on February 9 [5 favorites]
Meet the settlers targeted by Biden’s sanctions — and their victims (+972mag)
After years of toothless verbal condemnation of Israeli settler violence by successive U.S. governments, the Biden administration took the historic step last week of imposing sanctions against four settlers involved in recent attacks in the occupied West Bank. The executive order includes freezing the settlers’ assets in the United States and banning their entry into the country. Israeli banks have also frozen the accounts of two of the settlers on the list in compliance with the U.S. sanctions.
Settler violence has been on the rise for years, with perpetrators very often supported in the act by Israeli soldiers and enjoying near-total impunity in the Israeli justice system. The inauguration of the most far-right government in Israel’s history just over a year ago — with a man once arrested on suspicion of planning an attack becoming overlord of the West Bank, and a man once convicted of support for terrorism becoming national security minister — has further emboldened violent settlers: 2023 saw a sharp escalation in large-scale pogroms, including in Huwara, Al-Lubban ash-Sharqiya, Turmus Ayya, and many other locations.
These attacks are succeeding in their state-sanctioned goal of cleansing vast regions of the West Bank of their Palestinian inhabitants to enable the further expansion of Jewish settlements. And the situation has deteriorated even further under the shadow of war, with settlers forcibly displacing at least 16 entire Palestinian villages since October 7.
War on Gaza: Dearborn's Arab Americans call for boycott of senior Biden officials' visit (Middle East Eye)
In response to the visit, Arab Americans have called for a boycott of the Biden administration officials who have come to the city of Dearborn to meet with community leaders, saying they are not interested in any meetings without a call for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza by the White House.
According to Abed Ayoub, executive director of the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), the Dearborn-based Arab American PAC has put out a call for community members to boycott the meetings.
"The Arab American Political Action Committee calls on all peoples of conscience, and especially Arab Americans, to refuse any meetings with the Biden campaign or administration at this time," AAPAC said in a statement.
"As bombs continue to fall on Gaza, as massacres continue to take place, there is simply nothing to discuss without a call for a permanent ceasefire from the Biden administration. No electoral or policy discussion can occur under an active genocide."
While elected officials will have meetings with administration officials, which community organisers have little issue with, no major Muslim or Arab organisation will be represented in the meetings with the officials, according to Ayoub.
Gaza ceasefire: Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu rejects Hamas's proposed terms (BBC)
A draft of the Hamas document seen by Reuters news agency listed these terms:The proposed deal would also see deliveries of food and other aid to Gaza increase. By the end of the 135-day pause in fighting, Hamas said negotiations to end the war would have concluded.
- Phase one: A 45-day pause in fighting during which all Israeli women hostages, males under 19, the elderly and sick would be exchanged for Palestinian women and children held in Israeli jails. Israeli forces would withdraw from populated areas of Gaza, and the reconstruction of hospitals and refugee camps would begin.
- Phase two: Remaining male Israeli hostages would be exchanged for Palestinian prisoners and Israeli forces leave Gaza completely.
- Phase three: Both sides would exchange remains and bodies.
Around 1,300 people were killed during the Hamas attacks on southern Israel on 7 October last year.
More than 27,700 Palestinians have been killed and at least 65,000 injured by the war launched by Israel in response, according to the Hamas-run health ministry.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:23 PM on February 9 [5 favorites]
NETANYAHU’S WAR ON TRUTH:
Israel’s Ruthless Propaganda Campaign to Dehumanize Palestinians (The Intercept)
Just as the Bush administration exploited the 9/11 attacks to justify a sweeping war in which it declared the world a battlefield, Netanyahu is using the horrors of October 7 to wage the crusade he’s been preparing for his entire political career. With his grip on power fading last fall, the October 7 attacks provided him with just the opportunity he needed, and he hitched his political survival to the war on Gaza and what could be his last chance to eliminate Israel’s Palestinian problem once for all.
In that sense, Bibi was saved by Hamas.
…
The violent ethnonationalist ideology at the center of Netanyahu’s reign was born before his tenure and will endure when he’s gone. But his rule has embodied the most extremist and destructive version of the Israeli state project.
Netanyahu understands the power of defining and dominating the narrative, particularly when targeting it to U.S. audiences. For decades, he has advanced the Israeli propaganda doctrine of hasbaraOpens in a new tab — the notion that Israelis must be aggressive about “explaining” and justifying their actions to the West — to manipulate his adversaries and allies, domestic and international, into serving his objectives.
Netanyahu’s “vision of himself as the chief defender of the Jewish people against calamity allowed him to justify almost anything that would keep him in power,” observedOpens in a new tab former President Barack Obama in his 2020 memoir.
In the aftermath of October 7, Netanyahu cast Israel’s siege of a tiny strip of land the size of Philadelphia as a war of the worlds in which the very fate of humanity was at stake. “It’s not only our war. It’s your war too,” Netanyahu said in his first interviewOpens in a new tab on CNN after the October 7 attacks. “It’s the battle of civilization against barbarism. And if we don’t win here, this scourge will pass. The Middle East will pass to other places. The Middle East will fall. Europe is next. You will be next.”
The Israeli government rapidly deployed a multipronged propaganda strategy to win unprecedented support from the U.S. and other Western governments for a sweeping war against the entire population of Gaza. To oppose Israel’s war is antisemitic; to question its assertions about the events of October 7 is akin to Holocaust denial; to protest the mass killing of Palestinian civilians is to do the bidding of Hamas.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:26 PM on February 9 [2 favorites]
Netanyahu Orders Evacuation Of Rafah Ahead Of Ground Invasion | #NovaraLIVE (Novara Media, Piped/YouTube, 13m13s)
posted by flabdablet at 2:26 AM on February 10 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 2:26 AM on February 10 [1 favorite]
Cornel West on Israel-Hamas war: ‘Both parties are enabling genocide’
posted by clavdivs at 2:11 PM on February 10
posted by clavdivs at 2:11 PM on February 10
With dawn comes a new busload of demonstrators, ultra-Orthodox children and teens from northern Israel. They strap on their tefillin and pray. Some dance. A group with a guitar sing songs about the military. They use the border crossing bathrooms. No one asks them to leave.the Washington Post (archived)
Every explosion in Gaza raises a cheer.
“Dead, dead, dead Arabs,” one camper shouts at a roaring volley of outgoing fire. Then she notes the presence of a reporter. “Hamas,” she corrects herself.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:55 PM on February 10 [7 favorites]
I've been unable to even bring myself to post here about poor six-year-old Hind, trapped for hours in a car with her dead relatives and used as bait to murder an ambulance crew.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:56 PM on February 10 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:56 PM on February 10 [4 favorites]
The IDF are doing their damndest to make Hamas look like angels.
posted by Dysk at 12:35 AM on February 11 [3 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 12:35 AM on February 11 [3 favorites]
...to the surprise of exactly nobody who has kept themselves informed about its every previous engagement in Palestine.
The IDF rotted from the head down a very long time ago, before it even got its current name. Such objections to genocidal behaviour as exist within it are to be found almost entirely within its lowest ranks. It's pretty much impossible to get promoted past lieutenant unless you get with the program.
posted by flabdablet at 3:37 AM on February 11 [4 favorites]
The IDF rotted from the head down a very long time ago, before it even got its current name. Such objections to genocidal behaviour as exist within it are to be found almost entirely within its lowest ranks. It's pretty much impossible to get promoted past lieutenant unless you get with the program.
posted by flabdablet at 3:37 AM on February 11 [4 favorites]
Hamas had command tunnel under U.N. Gaza HQ, Israeli military says (Reuters)
Lack of cellphone reception in the tunnel made geolocating it as under UNRWA Headquarters impossible. Instead, reporters were asked to put personal items in a bucket that was lowered by rope into a vertical hole on the grounds of the headquarters. They were reunited with the still-tethered items during the tunnel tour.posted by hydropsyche at 3:41 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
Doesn't actually seem to prove much of anything to me.
There's a hole somewhere on the UNRWA premises, and possibly you can drop some things down that hole and they make it to a tunnel. Sure. I mean, it's definitely not beyond the IDF to pull the bucket back up, move it 100 metres and lower it again, but even assuming they're not, doesn't seem like anywhere near enough evidence of anything to be cutting off any humanitarian funding to a starving population.
posted by Audreynachrome at 6:43 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
There's a hole somewhere on the UNRWA premises, and possibly you can drop some things down that hole and they make it to a tunnel. Sure. I mean, it's definitely not beyond the IDF to pull the bucket back up, move it 100 metres and lower it again, but even assuming they're not, doesn't seem like anywhere near enough evidence of anything to be cutting off any humanitarian funding to a starving population.
posted by Audreynachrome at 6:43 AM on February 11 [2 favorites]
I didn't say that. Neither did anyone else here or in the Reuters article. I think the main take home is that Hamas sucks and hid their servers underneath a place that would and should not ever be attacked.
posted by hydropsyche at 7:16 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
posted by hydropsyche at 7:16 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]
Once again, Hamas is the government of Gaza. Even if those are Hamas' servers, there are in fact plenty of legitimate civilian reasons for Hamas to have a datacenter (they are running government services for 2+ million people) , and plenty of legit civilian reasons to keep it underground, given that the IDF bombs Gaza at least once every couple of years just for funsies!
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:34 AM on February 11 [11 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:34 AM on February 11 [11 favorites]
Like, the NYPD is a paramilitary force with a larger budget thsn the GDP of many small countries, and it acts in terroristic ways every fucking day, but New York City still has librarians and public records clerks and garbage collectors. Y'all get that, right?
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:45 AM on February 11 [6 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:45 AM on February 11 [6 favorites]
Why are we believing the Israeli military again now? The whole "UNWRA employs Hamas operatives" thing seems to have pretty much been an op to take attention off the genocide ruling at this point, for instance, and remember back when we still considered it bad to bomb a hospital and how all those Hamas "tunnels" were just...more hospital?
These are propaganda lies. I'm sure we're about to learn that there are thousands of miles of Hamas tunnels and millions of Hamas soldiers under Rafah, which is why it must be bombed to splinters, and that lie will hold just long enough to bomb and starve and snipe some more civilians and then prove to be propaganda as well. These are all fig leaves intended to give a little bit of coverage while atrocities are committed, so when they fall apart later it will be too late.
They've herded over a million civilians into Rafah and now they're de facto end-gaming it with Egypt - will Egypt let people in to sit in tents as refugees in the Sinai Peninsula or will Egypt sit tight while the IDF bombs and starves them in Palestine?
This is really just the wall at the end of the universe; we've reached a point where a mass atrocity is being conducted right in front of us, there is nothing any morally normal human can do to stop it, our leaders are boldly enabling it, our institutions are punishing those who object to it. It's the final end of the post-war order, the point where we all admit that "human rights" were only a justification for American adventurism and a stick to beat the communists, the beginning of the great disposability massacres of the anthropocene.
posted by Frowner at 1:10 PM on February 11 [22 favorites]
These are propaganda lies. I'm sure we're about to learn that there are thousands of miles of Hamas tunnels and millions of Hamas soldiers under Rafah, which is why it must be bombed to splinters, and that lie will hold just long enough to bomb and starve and snipe some more civilians and then prove to be propaganda as well. These are all fig leaves intended to give a little bit of coverage while atrocities are committed, so when they fall apart later it will be too late.
They've herded over a million civilians into Rafah and now they're de facto end-gaming it with Egypt - will Egypt let people in to sit in tents as refugees in the Sinai Peninsula or will Egypt sit tight while the IDF bombs and starves them in Palestine?
This is really just the wall at the end of the universe; we've reached a point where a mass atrocity is being conducted right in front of us, there is nothing any morally normal human can do to stop it, our leaders are boldly enabling it, our institutions are punishing those who object to it. It's the final end of the post-war order, the point where we all admit that "human rights" were only a justification for American adventurism and a stick to beat the communists, the beginning of the great disposability massacres of the anthropocene.
posted by Frowner at 1:10 PM on February 11 [22 favorites]
Ukraine-Israel Aid Bill Clears Critical Hurdle in the Senate.
posted by clavdivs at 1:10 PM on February 11
posted by clavdivs at 1:10 PM on February 11
Like, i'm just really fucking tired of the orientalism and the deliberate elisions, because it serves nobody but the genocidal Israeli occupiers. Hamas is a political organization with a military wing. (The military wing is called the Al-Qassam Brigades.) You can also think that Hamas sucks as a political organization -- plenty of Palestinians do, too! -- but you actually need to make that fucking distinction!!!!
When you hear "Hamas tunnels" you think "evil terrorism and slaughtering Israelis", when in fact the tunnels were built for blockade-running and smuggling to keep people alive (because remember, Israel has maintained a complete blockade and siege of Gaza since Hamas took power, including deliberately restricting the number of calories allowed across the border in order to keep the population constantly hungry). They have been used by Al-Qassam, sure! They've also been used for civilian purposes!
When you hear "ties to Hamas" you think "husband is a member of Al-Qassam", when it's equally if not more likely to mean "cousin is a census official", because, again, Hamas is the government of Gaza.
This elision has been inflicted on you, on purpose, by propaganda. Seventy-five years and four months into a genocidal occupation, you really fucking need to learn better.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:21 PM on February 11 [20 favorites]
When you hear "Hamas tunnels" you think "evil terrorism and slaughtering Israelis", when in fact the tunnels were built for blockade-running and smuggling to keep people alive (because remember, Israel has maintained a complete blockade and siege of Gaza since Hamas took power, including deliberately restricting the number of calories allowed across the border in order to keep the population constantly hungry). They have been used by Al-Qassam, sure! They've also been used for civilian purposes!
When you hear "ties to Hamas" you think "husband is a member of Al-Qassam", when it's equally if not more likely to mean "cousin is a census official", because, again, Hamas is the government of Gaza.
This elision has been inflicted on you, on purpose, by propaganda. Seventy-five years and four months into a genocidal occupation, you really fucking need to learn better.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:21 PM on February 11 [20 favorites]
It's the final end of the post-war order
I think your right. Israel just had a press release about how they're going to examine the upcoming "offensive" to protect civilians.
I take this as a sign of IJC weight, that netanyahu is trying to formulate and further advance his post-war plans of his own survival. the situation matches the optics as the IDF continues to commit crimes against humanity, push civilians further against the wall, and repeating the same. it's hurry up and move so we can kill or or not going to be responsible. netanyahu is not listening to anyone. He should be marched before a international Court for crimes against humanity and if convicted, jail for life. the fact that the United States government led by President Joe is hemming and hawing and making really polite suggestions on how not how to commit genocide is "over the top"
the last supporting thesis about American adventurism, the diplomatic mantra that's not exclusive to the United States, being, the United States has no friends, it does not seek friends it seeks alliances and allies, friendship is a benefit from that. admittedly, a lot of that is contingent on Old World thinking of strategic and economic ties. an example of the end I would posit, the United States backed by its allies would put an enormous pressure on Israel, threaten them with sanctions, and withdrawal of weapon sales immediately but this won't happen and it has not happened. just over 100 Republicans are holding back aid to Israel as well as Ukraine and Taiwan. to them, it's not about the money, that's the easy part that's quite cheap, but the Republicans are still living in that old world where they want a return on their investment they want to know where their money is going when the war is going to stop so the markets can improve and trade can commence. I would estimate that both the Ukraine war and aid to Israel has cost the United States and it's allies close to a half a trillion dollars with no end sight.
so it's really not about the money, it's about what that money can buy.
what netanyahu may and most likely may not realize that his War has just begun.
posted by clavdivs at 2:23 PM on February 11
I think your right. Israel just had a press release about how they're going to examine the upcoming "offensive" to protect civilians.
I take this as a sign of IJC weight, that netanyahu is trying to formulate and further advance his post-war plans of his own survival. the situation matches the optics as the IDF continues to commit crimes against humanity, push civilians further against the wall, and repeating the same. it's hurry up and move so we can kill or or not going to be responsible. netanyahu is not listening to anyone. He should be marched before a international Court for crimes against humanity and if convicted, jail for life. the fact that the United States government led by President Joe is hemming and hawing and making really polite suggestions on how not how to commit genocide is "over the top"
the last supporting thesis about American adventurism, the diplomatic mantra that's not exclusive to the United States, being, the United States has no friends, it does not seek friends it seeks alliances and allies, friendship is a benefit from that. admittedly, a lot of that is contingent on Old World thinking of strategic and economic ties. an example of the end I would posit, the United States backed by its allies would put an enormous pressure on Israel, threaten them with sanctions, and withdrawal of weapon sales immediately but this won't happen and it has not happened. just over 100 Republicans are holding back aid to Israel as well as Ukraine and Taiwan. to them, it's not about the money, that's the easy part that's quite cheap, but the Republicans are still living in that old world where they want a return on their investment they want to know where their money is going when the war is going to stop so the markets can improve and trade can commence. I would estimate that both the Ukraine war and aid to Israel has cost the United States and it's allies close to a half a trillion dollars with no end sight.
so it's really not about the money, it's about what that money can buy.
what netanyahu may and most likely may not realize that his War has just begun.
posted by clavdivs at 2:23 PM on February 11
And now they're bombing Rafah.
posted by Frowner at 6:03 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
posted by Frowner at 6:03 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
well that does it for me. brief rundown Israel has basically decimated the cultural, infrastructure, the people, and their own future. they will not listen to allies. they promised one thing and do another.
liars, perpetuators of genocide, people so frightened they will actively participate in massive war crimes against a people that are basically defenseless.
you are committing genocide Bibi. if I were president, the first thing I would do is sever diplomatic relations second I would seize every dime you have. you wouldn't receive another .22 shellI I would then steal everything I could intelligence wise dealing with the military nature.I would send in a giant flotilla of supplies and there is not a f****** thing you could do about it. and if you ever leave your country I'dhave you arrested crimes against humanity.
is there such a term suicide by genocide.
posted by clavdivs at 6:43 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
liars, perpetuators of genocide, people so frightened they will actively participate in massive war crimes against a people that are basically defenseless.
you are committing genocide Bibi. if I were president, the first thing I would do is sever diplomatic relations second I would seize every dime you have. you wouldn't receive another .22 shellI I would then steal everything I could intelligence wise dealing with the military nature.I would send in a giant flotilla of supplies and there is not a f****** thing you could do about it. and if you ever leave your country I'dhave you arrested crimes against humanity.
is there such a term suicide by genocide.
posted by clavdivs at 6:43 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
Certainly reputational suicide...
Like, it was already kinda this way, but the nails are in the coffin now. Israelis are going to go up on the wall with the white South Africans and Germans as people who do actually kind of have to stake out where they stand and acknowledge their family's history if they want to be respected and trusted by others going forward.
Like, as I've said before, with Nazis in my family tree, I definitely feel that obligation and I don't resent it, fair enough that someone might want to know that I acknowledge my family history and gladly vocally reject those paths.
posted by Audreynachrome at 7:32 PM on February 11 [5 favorites]
Like, it was already kinda this way, but the nails are in the coffin now. Israelis are going to go up on the wall with the white South Africans and Germans as people who do actually kind of have to stake out where they stand and acknowledge their family's history if they want to be respected and trusted by others going forward.
Like, as I've said before, with Nazis in my family tree, I definitely feel that obligation and I don't resent it, fair enough that someone might want to know that I acknowledge my family history and gladly vocally reject those paths.
posted by Audreynachrome at 7:32 PM on February 11 [5 favorites]
This elision has been inflicted on you, on purpose, by propaganda.
"Hamas tunnels" is the new "Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA" with a heavy side order of "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists".
The most galling thing about this kind of barefaced sloganized horseshit is how well it works.
posted by flabdablet at 7:57 PM on February 11 [9 favorites]
"Hamas tunnels" is the new "Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA" with a heavy side order of "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists".
The most galling thing about this kind of barefaced sloganized horseshit is how well it works.
posted by flabdablet at 7:57 PM on February 11 [9 favorites]
yeah, like the cell phones down the tunnel.
we have reception
no you don't
here, look.
yes but LOS
can we move the phones into the tunnel.
no, it is dangerous...move on.
'the only thing that burns in hell is the part of you that won't let go'
posted by clavdivs at 8:17 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
we have reception
no you don't
here, look.
yes but LOS
can we move the phones into the tunnel.
no, it is dangerous...move on.
'the only thing that burns in hell is the part of you that won't let go'
posted by clavdivs at 8:17 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
The White House, the political wing of the global military-industrial complex, responded to the bombing of Rafah with a press release reading in its entirety "Tut, tut."
posted by flabdablet at 9:53 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 9:53 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
They've been bombing Rafah for at least a week now. But they're escalating.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:03 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:03 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]
Who told you that the 1.5 million displaced Palestinians sheltering in Rafah have nowhere left to go? My family, now in Rafah, has a home in Jaffa, from which we were expelled by a fascist German family. The majority of our people in Gaza have homes to go to, all over Palestine.Hanine Hassan, on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:07 PM on February 11 [3 favorites]
Worth sharing because of timing:-
1. (As shared by Aviva Klompas 19 hours ago - if you're familiar with her work, let's have a drink together): (Jewish Press, 25/10/23) Evidence Emerging on Gazan Women, Children Who Participated in 10/7 Massacre
And
2. Samah Sabawi: "As we brace for another massacre, I stroll the headlines... more articles about Oct 7th. Wow. Four months later, 100,000 dead missing injured and the western calendar hasn't moved a day. But, really who am I kidding? We've been stuck on Oct 7 for decades, trapped in their victimhood, entitlement to our land and lives. Their crimes are defence, our defence is terrorism. They are humanised and we are ungrievable. We die, we don't get killed. We disappear, we don't get ethnically cleansed. We migrate, we don't get exiled. We lose wars, we don't get colonised. We lose jobs, we don't get forced out. We lose funding, the lobby has nothing to do with it, it would be antisemitic to assume that obvious connection. Calling for equality is counter productive. Demanding rights makes us radical. Grieving our losses make us Hamas supporters. They get to cling to one day of suffering, while we are told to move on and be forward looking. We are told to see everything through this still calendar, where Oct 7 stretches into the past and into the future to justify our erasure."
Time for a victory lap: (ToI) IDF safely rescues 2 hostages from Rafah in special operation
Per Barak Ravid: According to the IDF the operation took place around 1am local time. Forces from the Shin Bet special operations unit, the Israeli Police counterterrorisn unit and IDF navy seals arrived at a building in the heart of Rafah where the two hostages were held
Schroedinger's precision.
posted by cendawanita at 11:40 PM on February 11 [5 favorites]
1. (As shared by Aviva Klompas 19 hours ago - if you're familiar with her work, let's have a drink together): (Jewish Press, 25/10/23) Evidence Emerging on Gazan Women, Children Who Participated in 10/7 Massacre
And
2. Samah Sabawi: "As we brace for another massacre, I stroll the headlines... more articles about Oct 7th. Wow. Four months later, 100,000 dead missing injured and the western calendar hasn't moved a day. But, really who am I kidding? We've been stuck on Oct 7 for decades, trapped in their victimhood, entitlement to our land and lives. Their crimes are defence, our defence is terrorism. They are humanised and we are ungrievable. We die, we don't get killed. We disappear, we don't get ethnically cleansed. We migrate, we don't get exiled. We lose wars, we don't get colonised. We lose jobs, we don't get forced out. We lose funding, the lobby has nothing to do with it, it would be antisemitic to assume that obvious connection. Calling for equality is counter productive. Demanding rights makes us radical. Grieving our losses make us Hamas supporters. They get to cling to one day of suffering, while we are told to move on and be forward looking. We are told to see everything through this still calendar, where Oct 7 stretches into the past and into the future to justify our erasure."
Time for a victory lap: (ToI) IDF safely rescues 2 hostages from Rafah in special operation
Per Barak Ravid: According to the IDF the operation took place around 1am local time. Forces from the Shin Bet special operations unit, the Israeli Police counterterrorisn unit and IDF navy seals arrived at a building in the heart of Rafah where the two hostages were held
Schroedinger's precision.
posted by cendawanita at 11:40 PM on February 11 [5 favorites]
And now they're bombing Rafah.
The reporting this morning is that it was a series of building strikes to provide cover for the hostage rescue operation. But as noted above, they've been bombing there on and off for quite some time.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:09 AM on February 12
The reporting this morning is that it was a series of building strikes to provide cover for the hostage rescue operation. But as noted above, they've been bombing there on and off for quite some time.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:09 AM on February 12
And the images this morning shows it was a masssacre. Footage coming out is unreal.
posted by kmt at 6:14 AM on February 12 [3 favorites]
posted by kmt at 6:14 AM on February 12 [3 favorites]
And the images this morning shows it was a masssacre. Footage coming out is unreal.
The reason I mentioned it, as distinct from the ongoing bombing, was that the footage was starting to come in on social media. I didn't at the time have the heart to describe anything.
Now, of course, they're trotting out a line about women and children Hamas. Maybe that little girl who got murdered in the car with her family was Hamas! Maybe she was the mastermind who did October 7! And the ambulance drivers who tried to get to her were her trusted minions!
There's just no end to this depravity.
Could the United States stop this cold? I think so but I have no real idea. But even if we can't, it would be much better to try and to make a highly visible show of trying than to keep mumbling about how it's "over the top" while shipping over more hellfire missiles. This is the indifference training that we'll all have to have for the 21st century, because if you think this is going to stop with the Palestinians you're not thinking very hard. We're being taught that there is nothing we can do, so we might as well choke down our initial responses and watch the superbowl - and that will prove useful to power the next time someone tries to get the eyes of the world on murder.
The one thing you can guarantee is that stuff like this doesn't stop. It gets stopped, or it goes on and worsens. The United States has just put a big approval stamp on murdering inconvenient populations on live video, no matter what anyone claims we're doing.
posted by Frowner at 6:28 AM on February 12 [8 favorites]
The reason I mentioned it, as distinct from the ongoing bombing, was that the footage was starting to come in on social media. I didn't at the time have the heart to describe anything.
Now, of course, they're trotting out a line about women and children Hamas. Maybe that little girl who got murdered in the car with her family was Hamas! Maybe she was the mastermind who did October 7! And the ambulance drivers who tried to get to her were her trusted minions!
There's just no end to this depravity.
Could the United States stop this cold? I think so but I have no real idea. But even if we can't, it would be much better to try and to make a highly visible show of trying than to keep mumbling about how it's "over the top" while shipping over more hellfire missiles. This is the indifference training that we'll all have to have for the 21st century, because if you think this is going to stop with the Palestinians you're not thinking very hard. We're being taught that there is nothing we can do, so we might as well choke down our initial responses and watch the superbowl - and that will prove useful to power the next time someone tries to get the eyes of the world on murder.
The one thing you can guarantee is that stuff like this doesn't stop. It gets stopped, or it goes on and worsens. The United States has just put a big approval stamp on murdering inconvenient populations on live video, no matter what anyone claims we're doing.
posted by Frowner at 6:28 AM on February 12 [8 favorites]
i have the feeling that there's going to be a lot of inconvenient populations in our future to the point where we're all inconvenient
posted by pyramid termite at 6:56 AM on February 12 [5 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 6:56 AM on February 12 [5 favorites]
Yes, that is the feeling that I have too. Back when this was just a starter nightmare, I was at a protest where one of the chants was "by the millions by the billions, we are all Palestinians" and it has recurred to me many times. It isn't a new thought, of course, but ordinary people ought to feel solidarity with oppressed groups, because we're all just one bad break away from being an inconvenient population. Letting ordinary working people get pulverized just because they're on the other side of the world is not just immoral, it's really stupid.
posted by Frowner at 7:02 AM on February 12 [6 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 7:02 AM on February 12 [6 favorites]
It isn't a new thought, of course, but ordinary people ought to feel solidarity with oppressed groups, because we're all just one bad break away from being an inconvenient population. Letting ordinary working people get pulverized just because they're on the other side of the world is not just immoral, it's really stupid.
Back when the US was in its post 9-11 fervor and the Iraq invasion was ramping up, that was my reaction to all those people saying things like "kill them all and let God sort them out". That's such arrogance, to think that it could never be you and your family huddled in the bathroom hoping a bomb doesn't land on your house.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:19 AM on February 12 [4 favorites]
Back when the US was in its post 9-11 fervor and the Iraq invasion was ramping up, that was my reaction to all those people saying things like "kill them all and let God sort them out". That's such arrogance, to think that it could never be you and your family huddled in the bathroom hoping a bomb doesn't land on your house.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:19 AM on February 12 [4 favorites]
Could the United States stop this cold? I think so but I have no real idea. But even if we can't, it would be much better to try and to make a highly visible show of trying than to keep mumbling about how it's "over the top" while shipping over more hellfire missiles.
I was actually about to share these but I think I'll do it in chronological order suggestive of a thread of at least one argument:
15 January: (AA) South African lawyers preparing lawsuit against US, UK for complicity in Israel's war crimes in Gaza -
After South Africa filed a case against Israel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) for genocide in Gaza, the country's nearly 50 lawyers are preparing a separate lawsuit against the US and UK governments on the grounds that they are complicit in Israeli forces' war crimes in Palestine.
The initiative, led by South African lawyer Wikus Van Rensburg, aims to prosecute those who are complicit in the crime in civilian courts in collaboration with lawyers from the US and UK, with whom he is already in contact.
1 February: (The Wire; India) US Court Dismisses Suit Against Biden, But Says Israel’s Actions Plausibly Fall Under Genocide Convention -
Granting the US government’s motion of dismissal, Senior District Judge Jeffrey S. White at the US District Court of Northern District of California said that it was “bound by precedent and the division of our coordinate branches of government to abstain from exercising jurisdiction in this matter”.
However, the US federal judge also noted, referencing a recent decision from the UN’s highest judicial body, that there was credibility to the claim that Israeli actions might be considered as genocide.
“Yet, as the ICJ has found, it is plausible that Israel’s conduct amounts to genocide. This Court implores Defendants to examine the results of their unflagging support of the military siege against the Palestinians in Gaza,” said the judgement written on January 31.
2 February: (NZ govt site) New Zealand provides further humanitarian support to Gaza and the West Bank
(Globe & Mail) Canada warned to cut off military exports to Israel or face legal challenge -
A coalition of Canadians and Palestinians is urging Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly to cut off military exports to Israel, warning it may bring a legal challenge if Ottawa fails to act.
The group, which includes Canadian Lawyers for International Human Rights and Al-Haq – Law in the Services of Man, an independent Ramallah-based NGO, argues that Ottawa’s Export and Import Permits Act prevents the federal government from issuing permits to export military goods and related technology to Israel owing to the “substantial risk” these could be used to commit serious violations of international law and serious acts of violence against women and children.
The “substantial risk” test was added to Canadian law in 2018 by then-foreign affairs minister Chrystia Freeland.
(Reuters) Ireland seeking review of EU-Israel agreement over rights concerns -
Ireland is in talks with other EU members who want a review of the EU-Israel Association Agreement on the basis that Israel may be breaching the agreement's human rights clause, Prime Minister Leo Varadkar told reporters in Brussels on Thursday.
A number of EU states are also talking about a possible joint recognition of a Palestinian state after the current conflict, he said.
3 February: (SCMP) EU told ‘double standards’ for Ukraine and Gaza hurt relations with Indo-Pacific -
Remarks come at third EU-Indo Pacific summit in Brussels, attended by more than 70 delegations spanning the Pacific Islands, East Africa, Asia and Europe; ‘It’s true, every time we talk with our partners, the issue of how we perceive the situations in Gaza and Ukraine appears,’ top EU diplomat Josep Borrell says
5 February: (Guardian) UK professor suffered discrimination due to anti-Zionist beliefs, tribunal rules -
A sociology professor sacked by the University of Bristol after being accused of antisemitic comments has won a “landmark” decision that he was discriminated against because of his anti-Zionist beliefs.
An employment tribunal ruled that Prof David Miller was unfairly dismissed, and that his “anti-Zionist beliefs qualified as a philosophical belief and as a protected characteristic pursuant to section 10 Equality Act 2010”.
(Le Soir) Guerre Israël-Hamas : sous pression, la Wallonie suspend des licences d’export d’armes vers Israël or in English: (MEE) Belgium's Walloon government suspends ammunition exports to Israel over Gaza war, ICJ rulings -
Belgium’s Walloon regional government has suspended two licenses for ammunition exports to Israel, an official announcement, reports Anadolu Agency.
In Parliament on Monday, Housing Minister, Christophe Collignon, announced the suspension when answering a question on behalf of Elio Di Rupo, the Minister-President of Wallonia, one of Belgium’s three regions.
Collignon said Di Rupo decided to temporarily suspend two licenses given to the company, PB Clermont, following last month’s International Court of Justice’s provisional rulings on Israel, as well as the “unacceptable deterioration of the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip”.
(Vancouver Sun) Selina Robinson quits cabinet post following 'crappy piece of land' comments -
Selina Robinson has resigned as post-secondary education minister, Premier David Eby announced Monday, after a mounting backlash over her controversial comments about Palestine and the Israel-Hamas war.
“The depth of the work that she needs to do in order to address the harm is significant and incompatible with her continuing” as minister, Eby said during a news conference at the Vancouver cabinet office.
(...) Sid Shniad, a founding member of Independent Jewish Voices, a group which had called for Robinson to resign, said it was “extraordinary that it took the amount of effort from so many different individuals and organizations to get the premier to finally do this.”
“I think that (Eby) was just facing the prospect of being unable to conduct the business of his government if he continued to adhere to that support for her,” said Shniad, who attended the protest Monday.
And previously shared:
Japan's Itochu to end cooperation with Israel's Elbit amid Gaza war -
Itochu plans to end the collaboration after the World Court ordered Israel last month to prevent acts of genocide against Palestinians and do more to help civilians, Itochu Chief Financial Officer Tsuyoshi Hachimura said.
"The partnership is based on a request from the Japan's defence ministry for the purpose of importing defence equipment for the Self-Defense Forces necessary for Japan's security, and is not in any way related to the current conflict between Israel and Palestine," Hachimura told an earnings press conference.
"Taking into consideration the International Court of Justice's order on January 26, and that the Japanese government supports the role of the Court, we have already suspended new activities related to the MOU, and plan to end the MOU by the end of February," he said.
As well as: (Al-Mayadeen) Nicaragua taking Germany, Canada, UK, Netherlands to ICJ for genocide
And then we get to:
10 February: (Mail & Guardian; SA) BREAKING: US congress receives bill to review SA relations following ‘politically motivated’ ICJ case -
A bill has been submitted to the United States congress calling for a full review of the country’s bilateral relationship with South Africa following the International Court of Justice ruling that found it plausible that Israel has committed acts of genocide against Gaza.
The bipartisan bill which was introduced by US Republican congressman John James and Democratic Party congressman Jared Moskowitz this week could threaten South Africa’s prospects to benefit from the African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA).
The bill will still need to be discussed and passed by congress.
(...) The bill accuses the ANC of acting inconsistent with its publicly stated policy of nonalignment in international affairs.
It states that the South African Government has a history of siding with malign actors, including Hamas and the Russian Federation.
The US congress bill argues that the South African government’s support of Hamas dates back to 1994, when the ANC first came into power, taking a hardline stance of consistently accusing Israel of practising apartheid.
And then we come to the last 24 hours:
12 February: (Al-Jazeera) Court orders Netherlands to halt delivery of fighter jet parts to Israel (or the court's own press release) -
The verdict, delivered by an appeals court on Monday, said there is a “clear risk” that the parts the Netherlands is exporting are being used in “serious violations of international humanitarian law”.
The court said it is likely that Israel was using its F-35s in attacks on Gaza, which are leading to unacceptable civilian casualties. It dismissed the Dutch state’s argument that it did not have to do a new check on the permit for the exports.
However, in response to Monday’s ruling, the Dutch government said it would appeal the order at the Supreme Court, arguing the weapons parts were crucial to Israel’s ability to protect itself from “threats in the region, for example from Iran, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon”.
The ruling followed an appeal by Amnesty International and Oxfam against a lower court decision last year that rejected their argument that supplying the parts contributed to alleged “contributing to wide-scale and serious violations of humanitarian law by Israel in Gaza”.
posted by cendawanita at 10:15 AM on February 12 [10 favorites]
I was actually about to share these but I think I'll do it in chronological order suggestive of a thread of at least one argument:
15 January: (AA) South African lawyers preparing lawsuit against US, UK for complicity in Israel's war crimes in Gaza -
After South Africa filed a case against Israel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) for genocide in Gaza, the country's nearly 50 lawyers are preparing a separate lawsuit against the US and UK governments on the grounds that they are complicit in Israeli forces' war crimes in Palestine.
The initiative, led by South African lawyer Wikus Van Rensburg, aims to prosecute those who are complicit in the crime in civilian courts in collaboration with lawyers from the US and UK, with whom he is already in contact.
1 February: (The Wire; India) US Court Dismisses Suit Against Biden, But Says Israel’s Actions Plausibly Fall Under Genocide Convention -
Granting the US government’s motion of dismissal, Senior District Judge Jeffrey S. White at the US District Court of Northern District of California said that it was “bound by precedent and the division of our coordinate branches of government to abstain from exercising jurisdiction in this matter”.
However, the US federal judge also noted, referencing a recent decision from the UN’s highest judicial body, that there was credibility to the claim that Israeli actions might be considered as genocide.
“Yet, as the ICJ has found, it is plausible that Israel’s conduct amounts to genocide. This Court implores Defendants to examine the results of their unflagging support of the military siege against the Palestinians in Gaza,” said the judgement written on January 31.
2 February: (NZ govt site) New Zealand provides further humanitarian support to Gaza and the West Bank
(Globe & Mail) Canada warned to cut off military exports to Israel or face legal challenge -
A coalition of Canadians and Palestinians is urging Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly to cut off military exports to Israel, warning it may bring a legal challenge if Ottawa fails to act.
The group, which includes Canadian Lawyers for International Human Rights and Al-Haq – Law in the Services of Man, an independent Ramallah-based NGO, argues that Ottawa’s Export and Import Permits Act prevents the federal government from issuing permits to export military goods and related technology to Israel owing to the “substantial risk” these could be used to commit serious violations of international law and serious acts of violence against women and children.
The “substantial risk” test was added to Canadian law in 2018 by then-foreign affairs minister Chrystia Freeland.
(Reuters) Ireland seeking review of EU-Israel agreement over rights concerns -
Ireland is in talks with other EU members who want a review of the EU-Israel Association Agreement on the basis that Israel may be breaching the agreement's human rights clause, Prime Minister Leo Varadkar told reporters in Brussels on Thursday.
A number of EU states are also talking about a possible joint recognition of a Palestinian state after the current conflict, he said.
3 February: (SCMP) EU told ‘double standards’ for Ukraine and Gaza hurt relations with Indo-Pacific -
Remarks come at third EU-Indo Pacific summit in Brussels, attended by more than 70 delegations spanning the Pacific Islands, East Africa, Asia and Europe; ‘It’s true, every time we talk with our partners, the issue of how we perceive the situations in Gaza and Ukraine appears,’ top EU diplomat Josep Borrell says
5 February: (Guardian) UK professor suffered discrimination due to anti-Zionist beliefs, tribunal rules -
A sociology professor sacked by the University of Bristol after being accused of antisemitic comments has won a “landmark” decision that he was discriminated against because of his anti-Zionist beliefs.
An employment tribunal ruled that Prof David Miller was unfairly dismissed, and that his “anti-Zionist beliefs qualified as a philosophical belief and as a protected characteristic pursuant to section 10 Equality Act 2010”.
(Le Soir) Guerre Israël-Hamas : sous pression, la Wallonie suspend des licences d’export d’armes vers Israël or in English: (MEE) Belgium's Walloon government suspends ammunition exports to Israel over Gaza war, ICJ rulings -
Belgium’s Walloon regional government has suspended two licenses for ammunition exports to Israel, an official announcement, reports Anadolu Agency.
In Parliament on Monday, Housing Minister, Christophe Collignon, announced the suspension when answering a question on behalf of Elio Di Rupo, the Minister-President of Wallonia, one of Belgium’s three regions.
Collignon said Di Rupo decided to temporarily suspend two licenses given to the company, PB Clermont, following last month’s International Court of Justice’s provisional rulings on Israel, as well as the “unacceptable deterioration of the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip”.
(Vancouver Sun) Selina Robinson quits cabinet post following 'crappy piece of land' comments -
Selina Robinson has resigned as post-secondary education minister, Premier David Eby announced Monday, after a mounting backlash over her controversial comments about Palestine and the Israel-Hamas war.
“The depth of the work that she needs to do in order to address the harm is significant and incompatible with her continuing” as minister, Eby said during a news conference at the Vancouver cabinet office.
(...) Sid Shniad, a founding member of Independent Jewish Voices, a group which had called for Robinson to resign, said it was “extraordinary that it took the amount of effort from so many different individuals and organizations to get the premier to finally do this.”
“I think that (Eby) was just facing the prospect of being unable to conduct the business of his government if he continued to adhere to that support for her,” said Shniad, who attended the protest Monday.
And previously shared:
Japan's Itochu to end cooperation with Israel's Elbit amid Gaza war -
Itochu plans to end the collaboration after the World Court ordered Israel last month to prevent acts of genocide against Palestinians and do more to help civilians, Itochu Chief Financial Officer Tsuyoshi Hachimura said.
"The partnership is based on a request from the Japan's defence ministry for the purpose of importing defence equipment for the Self-Defense Forces necessary for Japan's security, and is not in any way related to the current conflict between Israel and Palestine," Hachimura told an earnings press conference.
"Taking into consideration the International Court of Justice's order on January 26, and that the Japanese government supports the role of the Court, we have already suspended new activities related to the MOU, and plan to end the MOU by the end of February," he said.
As well as: (Al-Mayadeen) Nicaragua taking Germany, Canada, UK, Netherlands to ICJ for genocide
And then we get to:
10 February: (Mail & Guardian; SA) BREAKING: US congress receives bill to review SA relations following ‘politically motivated’ ICJ case -
A bill has been submitted to the United States congress calling for a full review of the country’s bilateral relationship with South Africa following the International Court of Justice ruling that found it plausible that Israel has committed acts of genocide against Gaza.
The bipartisan bill which was introduced by US Republican congressman John James and Democratic Party congressman Jared Moskowitz this week could threaten South Africa’s prospects to benefit from the African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA).
The bill will still need to be discussed and passed by congress.
(...) The bill accuses the ANC of acting inconsistent with its publicly stated policy of nonalignment in international affairs.
It states that the South African Government has a history of siding with malign actors, including Hamas and the Russian Federation.
The US congress bill argues that the South African government’s support of Hamas dates back to 1994, when the ANC first came into power, taking a hardline stance of consistently accusing Israel of practising apartheid.
And then we come to the last 24 hours:
12 February: (Al-Jazeera) Court orders Netherlands to halt delivery of fighter jet parts to Israel (or the court's own press release) -
The verdict, delivered by an appeals court on Monday, said there is a “clear risk” that the parts the Netherlands is exporting are being used in “serious violations of international humanitarian law”.
The court said it is likely that Israel was using its F-35s in attacks on Gaza, which are leading to unacceptable civilian casualties. It dismissed the Dutch state’s argument that it did not have to do a new check on the permit for the exports.
However, in response to Monday’s ruling, the Dutch government said it would appeal the order at the Supreme Court, arguing the weapons parts were crucial to Israel’s ability to protect itself from “threats in the region, for example from Iran, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon”.
The ruling followed an appeal by Amnesty International and Oxfam against a lower court decision last year that rejected their argument that supplying the parts contributed to alleged “contributing to wide-scale and serious violations of humanitarian law by Israel in Gaza”.
posted by cendawanita at 10:15 AM on February 12 [10 favorites]
re: Nicaragua, if you're wondering why the US is not being named, it's been speculated or pointed out that it may have something to do with the Hague Invasion Act but that should be relevant more to stuff concerning the Rome Statute. Though apparently the US was softening a bit because having the ICC is useful when Russia is around doing things like invading Ukraine.
Rules-based international order (:
Speaking of the ICC, Karim Khan awakens and is deeply concerned -
The prosecutor said the court was "actively investigating any crimes allegedly committed" in Gaza and that "those who are in breach of the law will be held accountable".
He later told Reuters that half of the population of Gaza is currently concentrated around Rafah, "reportedly six times its normal concentration".
"When you have a population that is 60% children and women by all accounts, the risks to civilians are profound", he said.
"This situation is one that I give the utmost priority to. It's an issue that we're moving forward on."
Israel is not a member of the Hague-based court and does not recognise its jurisdiction. But Khan said in October his court had jurisdiction over any potential war crimes carried out by Hamas Palestinian militants in Israel and by Israelis in the Gaza Strip.
posted by cendawanita at 10:45 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]
Rules-based international order (:
Speaking of the ICC, Karim Khan awakens and is deeply concerned -
The prosecutor said the court was "actively investigating any crimes allegedly committed" in Gaza and that "those who are in breach of the law will be held accountable".
He later told Reuters that half of the population of Gaza is currently concentrated around Rafah, "reportedly six times its normal concentration".
"When you have a population that is 60% children and women by all accounts, the risks to civilians are profound", he said.
"This situation is one that I give the utmost priority to. It's an issue that we're moving forward on."
Israel is not a member of the Hague-based court and does not recognise its jurisdiction. But Khan said in October his court had jurisdiction over any potential war crimes carried out by Hamas Palestinian militants in Israel and by Israelis in the Gaza Strip.
posted by cendawanita at 10:45 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]
Excellent 2-minute clip of EU head foreign policy minister Borrell from Spain calling out Biden for not cutting off arms and money to Netanyahu. Borrell is clearly frustrated and borders on sarcastic:
"If you believe too many people are being killed, maybe you should provide less arms. You know, to prevent so many people being killled. That's not logical?"
He goes on, noting that Netanyahu doesn't listen to anyone who "goes to Tel Aviv begging" him to stop murdering so many civilians. You can tell he means it. He then mentions that a Dutch court just ordered the Netherlands to stop shipment of spare parts for F-35 fighters as an example of what should be done. It's worth giving Elon a click if you can't find his speech elsewhere, but here's a 30-second excerpt at YouTube.
posted by mediareport at 12:25 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
"If you believe too many people are being killed, maybe you should provide less arms. You know, to prevent so many people being killled. That's not logical?"
He goes on, noting that Netanyahu doesn't listen to anyone who "goes to Tel Aviv begging" him to stop murdering so many civilians. You can tell he means it. He then mentions that a Dutch court just ordered the Netherlands to stop shipment of spare parts for F-35 fighters as an example of what should be done. It's worth giving Elon a click if you can't find his speech elsewhere, but here's a 30-second excerpt at YouTube.
posted by mediareport at 12:25 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
lost it after reading frowners comment that they started bombing. I read somewhere that Biden last night called up netanyahu and called him an a******.
I like my presidential ideas better. I will retract stealing their intelligence data because I think we have it already. I don't feel any better today and it showed at work.
i have the feeling that there's going to be a lot of inconvenient populations in our future to the point where we're all inconvenient
We are all dangerous now.
posted by clavdivs at 3:10 PM on February 12
I like my presidential ideas better. I will retract stealing their intelligence data because I think we have it already. I don't feel any better today and it showed at work.
i have the feeling that there's going to be a lot of inconvenient populations in our future to the point where we're all inconvenient
We are all dangerous now.
posted by clavdivs at 3:10 PM on February 12
Just to check, should this thread keep being updated or should updates go there?
posted by cendawanita at 6:11 PM on February 12
posted by cendawanita at 6:11 PM on February 12
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Previously shared
- (France 24) Israel social security data reveals true picture of Oct 7 deaths
The identities and ages of civilian victims are available via Bituah Leumi, Israel's social security agency.
Its website lists 695 people killed during the attack, with names and the circumstances of their deaths.
Among them are 36 children, including 20 under 15 years old and 10 killed by rockets.
The youngest victim was 10-month-old Mila Cohen, shot and killed at Kibbutz Beeri.
An entire family, including three children aged between two and six, were killed in their home at Kibbutz Nir Oz.
Elsewhere, two brothers aged five and eight were shot dead in their car with their parents.
A five-year-old boy was killed in the street by a rocket.
The data gives a clear picture of the scale of the atrocities at the Supernova music festival in Reim where 364 people were killed.
But it also invalidates some statements by Israeli authorities in the days following the attack.
- (Mekomit) The army checked and found that the reports of the dead in the Ministry of Health in Gaza are reliable (in Hebrew)
Machine translation: Sources in the intelligence told "Tasha Khomey" that the army followed senior officials in the Ministry of Health in Gaza and concluded that their reports about the dead were reliable. The data is used by the army in assessing the situation regarding Gaza. For the information of President Biden
On twt, Yuval Avraham also summarised in English: Israeli intelligence secretly surveilled officials in Gaza’s Health Ministry to check if their data on the number of civilians killed in Gaza is 'reliable', Israeli intelligence sources told us.
The army found the numbers are reliable and now regularly uses them internally in intelligence briefings.
According to two sources, Israeli intelligence has no good independent measure of the total number of civilians the army killed in Gaza, making the Health Ministry's data their main source of information.
One reason for this is that officers conducted hundreds of AI-directed assassination strikes against suspected low-level Hamas operatives, usually by destroying entire homes and killing entire families – a practice we previously termed a 'mass assassination factory’. There was often no bomb damage assessment (BDA) for these strikes, meaning there was no check on who and how many civilians were killed. This routine post-strike check was skipped to 'save time'.
'I don’t know how many people I killed as collateral damage. We only check that information for senior Hamas targets,' one source said. 'In other cases I didn’t care. I immediately moved on to the next target. The focus was on creating as many targets as quickly as possible. That’s why I trust the Health Ministry in Gaza more than the IDF for these statistics. The army just doesn’t have the information.'
- (Ha Akom) For the past two months, the IDF has been carrying out systematic destruction of all buildings within a kilometer of the Gaza strip, without being criminalized as terrorist infrastructure (in Hebrew)
machine translation: The death of the 21 soldiers yesterday is the second disaster resulting from the introduction of Israeli explosives in huge quantities into the Strip. The hottest place reveals that this is a proactive activity that has been going on for about two months of systematic destruction for the purpose of creating a "security strip" along the border, a kilometer deep into the strip, while risking the foot forces and without all the buildings being criminalized. In some places it was reported that one hundred percent of the buildings had been destroyed
---
The IDF spokesman claimed in his statement this morning that the disaster in which 21 reservists were killed in the Almo'azi refugee camp happened while they were "on a mission to blow up buildings in the buffer zone near the fence", with the aim of "destroying terrorist infrastructure". However, according to sources in various reserve units, collected over the past few weeks, the IDF is carrying out a systematic and complete destruction of all the buildings adjacent to the fence at a distance of a kilometer deep into the strip, without being criminalized as terrorist infrastructure, neither by intelligence nor by soldiers in the field - with the aim of creating a security strip that does not exist A living soul, contrary to international law.
According to the testimonies of reservists who came to the hottest place, the army divided the border area from the sea in the north, near Zikim Beach, to the Egyptian border in the south - into segments, polygons. Each section is a few hundred meters long and a kilometer wide. In each polygon, the goal is to bring about the destruction of one hundred percent of the buildings, from greenhouses to houses, regardless of whether or not there was terrorist activity in them. The army keeps a record of how many buildings were destroyed in each section.
According to sources in the army, an average of 10.5 mines are required to detonate one building, about 150 kg of explosives, compared to 1-2 tons of explosives in aerial armament. The same sources report that the ground armament indicates a high level of professionalism of the forces in using sabotage and emphasized the economic savings.
- (CNN) At least 16 cemeteries in Gaza have been desecrated by Israeli forces, satellite imagery and videos reveal
CNN has reviewed satellite imagery and social media footage showing the destruction of cemeteries and witnessed it firsthand while traveling with the IDF in a convoy. Together the evidence reveals a systemic practice where Israeli ground forces have advanced across the Gaza Strip.
[...] A spokesman for the IDF could not account for the destruction of the 16 cemeteries CNN provided coordinates for, but said the military sometimes has “no other choice” but to target cemeteries it claimed Hamas uses for military purposes.
The IDF said rescuing the hostages and finding and returning their bodies is one of its key missions in Gaza, which is why bodies were removed from some gravesites.
“The hostage identification process, conducted at a secure and alternative location, ensures optimal professional conditions and respect for the deceased,” an IDF spokesperson told CNN, adding that bodies determined not be those of hostages are “returned with dignity and respect.”
But in other cases, the Israeli military appears to have used cemeteries as military outposts. CNN’s analysis of satellite imagery and videos showed that Israeli bulldozers turned multiple cemeteries into staging grounds, leveling large swaths and erecting berms to fortify their positions.
[...]On December 18, the IDF published an undated photo of what they said was a Hamas rocket launcher on the grounds of Shajaiya cemetery. CNN could not independently verify when or where the photo was taken.
Not previously shared
- (Haaretz) Israeli Army Officer Makes Incorrect Claims on Oct. 7 Massacre; IDF: 'We'll Set the Record Straight’
In an interview on a right-wing Israeli news channel, a senior IDF commander describes two events that he says he witnessed while battling Hamas on October 7, involving murdered babies and the murder of a Holocaust survivor – which never occurred, Kibbutz Be'eri said
—
A Kibbutz Be'eri spokesperson rejected the claims, and said, "Nearly one hundred people were murdered on Kibbutz Be'eri, and the community suffered hundreds of heartbreaking incidents on that Black Saturday and over the past months, especially regarding the hostages. However, incidents such as eight murdered babies and a murdered Holocaust survivor named Genia – did not happen."
An IDF spokesperson said, "The events in question will be investigated and examined. There was no intention to describe a reality that didn't happen, and we apologize if anyone was offended. We will set the record straight and clarify to all commanders involved in the media effort.”
(...) In another recent incident, the Israel Police spokesman for foreign media, Sgt. Dean Elsdunne, during a briefing in Kfar Azza, echoed an incorrect claim made in the past by a ZAKA member that "pregnant women were sliced open" during the terrorist attack.
A video allegedly depicting the murder of a pregnant woman circulated on social media in October, but this was refuted by the Fake Reporter fact-checking group and other sources, who said that the video was not filmed in Israel.
A police source said that "after the matter was checked, the incident was clarified to the police officer.”
- This Channel 13 clip (posted by MEE) also covered much of the above but with clips of the interviews of those claims including on the site of one of the kibbutzes, which I've learned separately, is now an active site for tours both by govt and private entities. The displaced Israelis are still displaced btw.
- Phillippe Lemoine: A French journalist asked an IDF spokesman whether they still believed there was a Hamas command center under al-Shifa Hospital, pointing out that the evidence presented after the IDF seized it didn't match the original claims made by Israel.
He replied that it was "unacceptable" for "a democracy like yours to ask another democracy a question" and added that such a question was "extremely weird or even nauseating" (if you see what I mean).
The journalist was almost apologetic and tried to argued that it was normal practice, but the IDF spokesman was having none of it. For some reason I'm supposed to give those people the benefit of the doubt though 🤷♂️
- (Mako) The criticism of Qatar, and the outrage at the US: "This is not how pressure will be seen" | Netanyahu's recordings of the meeting of the families of the abductees (in Hebrew) -
Prime Minister Netanyahu said in a meeting with representatives of the kidnapped families that he does not thank Qatar because in his opinion it can put more pressure on Hamas • Netanyahu also did not hide that he was disappointed with Biden because of the contract he renewed with the emirates • "For me, Qatar is more problematic than the United Nations and the Red Cross," said the Prime Minister
As summarized by Dan Cohen: Netanyahu planted recordings of himself attacking Qatar, which is mediating between Israel and Hamas. He told families of captives that "Qatar is more problematic than the United Nations and the Red Cross."
His political survival depends on permanent war. This is the latest tactic to prevent any progress in negotiations for a ceasefire and captive exchange
- (The Cradle) Egypt, Qatar turning cold shoulder to Netanyahu
The two key mediators on the Gaza-Israel war are souring on Tel Aviv following negative remarks by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Qatar said, on 24 January, that it was “appalled” by comments made by Netanyahu, blaming Qatar for financing the Palestinian resistance group Hamas in their fight against the Israeli army on Palestinian territory.
“You don’t hear me thanking Qatar... who are essentially no different from the United Nations or Red Cross, and even more problematic. I have no illusions with regards to them,” Netanyahu reportedly said in a recording obtained by Israel’s Channel 12.
…
Making matters worse for Israel, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi refused to hold a phone conversation with the Israeli prime minister on Wednesday.
Channel 13 reported that, upon Netanyahu’s request, the Israeli National Security Council attempted to coordinate a phone call with Sisi, but the latter did not respond.
- In the meantime: (The Cradle) Israeli tanks open fire on hundreds of Gazans waiting for aid
At least 20 Palestinians were killed, and 150 injured on 25 January after Israeli tanks opened fire at Gazans lined up to receive humanitarian aid at the Kuwait Roundabout in Gaza City, north of the strip.
“The Israeli occupation committed a new massacre against … hungry [Gazans] who were waiting for humanitarian aid at the Kuwait Roundabout in Gaza, resulting in 20 martyrs and the injury of 150,” Gaza Health Ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said.
"The number of martyrs is likely to increase as a result of dozens of serious injuries that arrived at Al-Shifa Medical Complex, which lacks medical capabilities," Qudra said.
Al-Shifa Hospital has been bombarded, raided, and emptied at gunpoint by Israeli troops since the start of the war in Gaza.
The hospital “only has a few working doctors,” Qudra added.
Thursday's massacre came one day after the Israeli army attacked a crowded shelter in Gaza’s southern city of Khan Yunis.
At least 12 were killed and 75 were wounded in the attack, including 15 who are in critical condition, senior UNRWA official Thomas White said.
Per Muhammad Shehada: 🚨Israeli troops fired several tank shells at starving Gazans awaiting food aid, slaughtering 20 civilians & wounding over 150
This has been happening every single day where the IDF ambushes & shoots the very people they starve to near death as soon as they approach aid trucks
Reminder, from Noura Erakat: The US has yet to recognize its elimination of indigenous ppl as genocide. Germany has yet to recognize its campaign against the Herero Nama as genocide. The ICJ narrowly found that only the Srebenica massacre constituted genocide.
The final word on genocide is not a legal one.
posted by cendawanita at 1:55 AM on January 26 [34 favorites]