—You got the wrong guy, pal.
March 20, 2024 3:59 PM Subscribe
If Minute 9 is the first time we hear the names Deckard and Blade Runner, it’s also the first time we meet the plainclothes cop who will play a key role in LAPD surveillance of Deckard — and in the changed emphasis of four subsequent versions of Blade Runner released over the next twenty-five years. from Minute 9: Blade Runner [3 am magazine]
Blade Runner, previously
Blade Runner, previously
Some sad timing, this is. Legend M Emmet Walsh, Bryant himself, has passed away.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:16 PM on March 20 [16 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:16 PM on March 20 [16 favorites]
I can't remember who said it, but there was either a director (not Scott, maybe Scorcese) or actor familiar with filmmaking who stated that you don't really have a film until the editing process starts. And the various director cuts (and producer-led director cuts) of Blade Runner seem to confirm that, to the extent that they all have different vibes and also tell subtly but quite different stories, as a result how each film is constructed.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:24 PM on March 20 [5 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:24 PM on March 20 [5 favorites]
And a . for Walsh. He brought an outsized Hank Quinlan sleaze to a role that was otherwise a very small fraction of the film.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:26 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:26 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]
Some sad timing, this is. Legend M Emmett Walsh, Bryant himself, has passed away.
Very sad. But this, this is a beautiful tribute and so true: Film critic Roger Ebert created the “Stanton-Walsh Rule,” which held that no movie featuring either Harry Dean Stanton or M. Emmet Walsh in a supporting role can be altogether bad…
posted by chavenet at 4:50 PM on March 20 [22 favorites]
Very sad. But this, this is a beautiful tribute and so true: Film critic Roger Ebert created the “Stanton-Walsh Rule,” which held that no movie featuring either Harry Dean Stanton or M. Emmet Walsh in a supporting role can be altogether bad…
posted by chavenet at 4:50 PM on March 20 [22 favorites]
Some sad timing, this is. Legend M Emmett Walsh, Bryant himself, has passed away.
“This is a bad one, the worst yet.”
posted by Artw at 5:38 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
“This is a bad one, the worst yet.”
posted by Artw at 5:38 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Too bad she won't live. But, then again, who does?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:46 PM on March 20 [13 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:46 PM on March 20 [13 favorites]
I wish the essay had explore how each of the different edits changed things for the viewer? Blade Runner is a film that I've been obsessed with for over 40 years, and I'm always happy to read what people have to say about it. I was hoping for something a bit more from this essay, I guess.
Still, glad to have read it! Thanks for posting!
The whole "Minute Nine" thing is a bit weird. Apparently there's a whole series of these? I know that a lot of screenplays are written to the page and thus to the minute, and I'm left wondering if there's a scriptwriting beat at minute nine that is taught in classes?
posted by hippybear at 6:48 PM on March 20 [5 favorites]
Still, glad to have read it! Thanks for posting!
The whole "Minute Nine" thing is a bit weird. Apparently there's a whole series of these? I know that a lot of screenplays are written to the page and thus to the minute, and I'm left wondering if there's a scriptwriting beat at minute nine that is taught in classes?
posted by hippybear at 6:48 PM on March 20 [5 favorites]
My favorite theory about Gaff is Deckard has Gaff’s memories.
Huh, I've long thought that Deckard is edited Holden, and the bit with the noodle shop is him having just been spun up after Leon's interview. I just don't think it's an accident that they had Morgan Paull play Holden so similarly to Han Solo, to my eye anyway.
Not saying Gaff doesn't make sense too.
—Lo fa, ne-ko shima, de va-ja Blade… Blade Runner.
I've usually seen that as "Lofasz, nehogy mar! Te vagy a blade..." (horsedick, no way! you're the blade...)
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:04 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Huh, I've long thought that Deckard is edited Holden, and the bit with the noodle shop is him having just been spun up after Leon's interview. I just don't think it's an accident that they had Morgan Paull play Holden so similarly to Han Solo, to my eye anyway.
Not saying Gaff doesn't make sense too.
—Lo fa, ne-ko shima, de va-ja Blade… Blade Runner.
I've usually seen that as "Lofasz, nehogy mar! Te vagy a blade..." (horsedick, no way! you're the blade...)
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:04 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
The whole "Minute Nine" thing is a bit weird. Apparently there's a whole series of these? I know that a lot of screenplays are written to the page and thus to the minute, and I'm left wondering if there's a scriptwriting beat at minute nine that is taught in classes?
I took a scriptwriting class as part of a media arts major in university. Pacing by the page is definitely a standard practice (iirc, the goal is one minute per page, including both action and dialogue). I don't know if there's anything specific about minute nine, though; the longest screenplays we had to write topped out at 30 minutes.
posted by May Kasahara at 7:21 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
I took a scriptwriting class as part of a media arts major in university. Pacing by the page is definitely a standard practice (iirc, the goal is one minute per page, including both action and dialogue). I don't know if there's anything specific about minute nine, though; the longest screenplays we had to write topped out at 30 minutes.
posted by May Kasahara at 7:21 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
There was a television series that I was watching that involved people writing and there's a difference between how much time a television page takes up versus a movie script and it was a major plot point that someone was moonlighting writing for one while working for the other and they forgot to switch the margins [or whatever] back and forth...
Anyway, yes. I know there are scriptwriting schools that teach to the page in various ways, which is teaching to timing.
posted by hippybear at 7:27 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Anyway, yes. I know there are scriptwriting schools that teach to the page in various ways, which is teaching to timing.
posted by hippybear at 7:27 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I've usually seen that as "Lofasz, nehogy mar! Te vagy a blade..."
Which got me curious, and I found this:
http://www.brmovie.com/FAQs/BR_FAQ_Language.htm
Edward James Olmos (who played Gaff) was originally given a very small character role to play. His input is what created the character we know and he obviously inspired Scott et al, as the character not only became considerably more interesting, but also more important to the film. The character, even in the last script, was officious, envious of Deckard and much less of a person. And he was to speak straight Japanese, (intended to have English subtitles).
Olmos (with Scott) added more nationalities into Gaff's origins, plus the multilingual abilities. Olmos said, "The first idea of mine was to take some different real languages and mix them down, such as French, Chinese, German and Japanese. Then I went to the Berlitz School of Languages in Los Angeles, and translated and learned to pronounce all these little pieces of dialogue. It was something strange, but it was fitting well into Gaff." Mr Olmos has some Hungarian Jewish background, hence the incorporation of some Hungarian in Cityspeak.
posted by Ayn Marx at 7:28 PM on March 20 [17 favorites]
Which got me curious, and I found this:
http://www.brmovie.com/FAQs/BR_FAQ_Language.htm
Edward James Olmos (who played Gaff) was originally given a very small character role to play. His input is what created the character we know and he obviously inspired Scott et al, as the character not only became considerably more interesting, but also more important to the film. The character, even in the last script, was officious, envious of Deckard and much less of a person. And he was to speak straight Japanese, (intended to have English subtitles).
Olmos (with Scott) added more nationalities into Gaff's origins, plus the multilingual abilities. Olmos said, "The first idea of mine was to take some different real languages and mix them down, such as French, Chinese, German and Japanese. Then I went to the Berlitz School of Languages in Los Angeles, and translated and learned to pronounce all these little pieces of dialogue. It was something strange, but it was fitting well into Gaff." Mr Olmos has some Hungarian Jewish background, hence the incorporation of some Hungarian in Cityspeak.
posted by Ayn Marx at 7:28 PM on March 20 [17 favorites]
Then is lófasz (“horse dick”) an extremely cryptic reference to Horselover Fat / Philip K. Dick?
posted by mbrubeck at 7:52 PM on March 20 [12 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 7:52 PM on March 20 [12 favorites]
It's weird to go to EJO's wikapedia page and seeing the picture of him smiling and looking like a happy dude. He never plays that role.
Maybe we will get another film from him where he plays a happy old guy....
posted by Windopaene at 7:53 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
Maybe we will get another film from him where he plays a happy old guy....
posted by Windopaene at 7:53 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
The whole "Minute Nine" thing is a bit weird. Apparently there's a whole series of these? I know that a lot of screenplays are written to the page and thus to the minute, and I'm left wondering if there's a scriptwriting beat at minute nine that is taught in classes?
I absorb just about everything I can re: screenwriting and story theory, and I've never come across a page-nine beat concept before, so while I can't say for sure, no, I don't think this is being taught in classes.
Which is maybe the point? The ninth minute of a movie is generally going to be after the tone, and probably initial worldbuilding, has been set up, but before we really know the characters or their conflicts yet. It's an interesting "random" minute to dive into in different stories, because while there's not a specific beat that goes there, it's prime real estate in Act One, where the writer must be the most economical in trying to accomplish a hell of a lot while remaining engaging.
In this case, most of the time prior to Minute Nine has been spent with the slow shot over the city towards the Tyrell Corporation, and Leon taking the Voigt-Kampff test. Then, we meet Deckard as he sits down at the noodle bar, but prior to this scene with Gaff, that's still just establishing the city from the ground level - the only clue that Deckard is our hero is that he's played by Harrison Ford. And that he's appearing right around this point in the script, when we're primed by lifetimes of watching movies to expect some kind of "Storyteller cut" to something new and important, and so we'll follow along.
So that's the significance of "minute nine," I think. If you think of story structure like city planing, Minute Nine isn't districted for anything specific, but it's right in the most heavily-trafficked part of town, so that's worthy of interest in itself.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:54 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]
I absorb just about everything I can re: screenwriting and story theory, and I've never come across a page-nine beat concept before, so while I can't say for sure, no, I don't think this is being taught in classes.
Which is maybe the point? The ninth minute of a movie is generally going to be after the tone, and probably initial worldbuilding, has been set up, but before we really know the characters or their conflicts yet. It's an interesting "random" minute to dive into in different stories, because while there's not a specific beat that goes there, it's prime real estate in Act One, where the writer must be the most economical in trying to accomplish a hell of a lot while remaining engaging.
In this case, most of the time prior to Minute Nine has been spent with the slow shot over the city towards the Tyrell Corporation, and Leon taking the Voigt-Kampff test. Then, we meet Deckard as he sits down at the noodle bar, but prior to this scene with Gaff, that's still just establishing the city from the ground level - the only clue that Deckard is our hero is that he's played by Harrison Ford. And that he's appearing right around this point in the script, when we're primed by lifetimes of watching movies to expect some kind of "Storyteller cut" to something new and important, and so we'll follow along.
So that's the significance of "minute nine," I think. If you think of story structure like city planing, Minute Nine isn't districted for anything specific, but it's right in the most heavily-trafficked part of town, so that's worthy of interest in itself.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:54 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]
Sunset Boulevard, Eight Mile, Minute Nine.
posted by hippybear at 7:57 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:57 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
I love Blade Runner. Saw it when it first came out at the sadly gone but amazing Cooper Theater in 70mm outside of Minneapolis.
I also stand by the option that Blade Runner 2049 was an amazing follow-up. Such great movies.
posted by misterpatrick at 8:03 PM on March 20 [7 favorites]
I also stand by the option that Blade Runner 2049 was an amazing follow-up. Such great movies.
posted by misterpatrick at 8:03 PM on March 20 [7 favorites]
Can anyone help me understand this part of this essay?
"By the end of The Director’s Cut, the question arises as to whether Deckard is an executioner of replicants, or a replicant who has become an executioner of his own kind. Minute 9 contains the seeds of the intertwined interactions of Deckard, Gaff and Rachael that will unfold into the happy-ever-after ending of the 1982 version of Blade Runner — and more importantly — twenty-five years later — the seeds remain present for the darker and more ‘truthful’ ambiguous end."
Emphasis mine because, 25 years later? What is meant by this here? I feel like time has slipped? Or was this essay written in 2007? Or what is going on?
Also, misterpatrick, I support your support for Blade Runner 2049. I don't think it was the followup I might have wanted, but it was an entirely worthy followup that explored the themes from the first in a really great ways.
Plus, Ken!
I mean, my husbear and I walked to our car entirely in silence after seeing BR49, which is usually a sign of it being a movie that is requiring reflection. I've seen it a couple of times since then, and it is one of the more solid sequels to an old movie i've seen. Didn't feel like a cheap shot to me. And it ends up also being full of ambiguous discussion topics, so that's good.
posted by hippybear at 8:12 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
"By the end of The Director’s Cut, the question arises as to whether Deckard is an executioner of replicants, or a replicant who has become an executioner of his own kind. Minute 9 contains the seeds of the intertwined interactions of Deckard, Gaff and Rachael that will unfold into the happy-ever-after ending of the 1982 version of Blade Runner — and more importantly — twenty-five years later — the seeds remain present for the darker and more ‘truthful’ ambiguous end."
Emphasis mine because, 25 years later? What is meant by this here? I feel like time has slipped? Or was this essay written in 2007? Or what is going on?
Also, misterpatrick, I support your support for Blade Runner 2049. I don't think it was the followup I might have wanted, but it was an entirely worthy followup that explored the themes from the first in a really great ways.
Plus, Ken!
I mean, my husbear and I walked to our car entirely in silence after seeing BR49, which is usually a sign of it being a movie that is requiring reflection. I've seen it a couple of times since then, and it is one of the more solid sequels to an old movie i've seen. Didn't feel like a cheap shot to me. And it ends up also being full of ambiguous discussion topics, so that's good.
posted by hippybear at 8:12 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
25 years later? What is meant by this here?
He's just referring to the Final Cut, right?
posted by mittens at 8:21 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
He's just referring to the Final Cut, right?
posted by mittens at 8:21 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I’ve fallen down one of my intermittent BR holes recently, due to Dune 2 - something I didn’t know was that apparently Bryant’s office is still in the LA train station as a kiosk- the city took the construction of the structure as part payment for location rental. I’ve also reconsidered my position on the whole “Deckard is a replicant” kerfuffle, and for me, headcanonically, he’s not.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:56 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:56 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
hippybear: “There was a television series that I was watching that involved people writing and there's a difference between how much time a television page takes up versus a movie script and it was a major plot point that someone was moonlighting writing for one while working for the other and they forgot to switch the margins [or whatever] back and forth”It was Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, Episode 9, “The Option Period.”
posted by ob1quixote at 9:11 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
The book was better.
posted by yinchiao at 10:26 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by yinchiao at 10:26 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Huh. I'd guessed the previous segments were different minutes of Blade Runner, but nope, different movie each time. I guess I got that idea from hearing about ... some podcast, going over a movie, each episode covering one minute? (Maybe the Groundhog Day project?)
posted by Pronoiac at 11:41 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Pronoiac at 11:41 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I think there are a bunch of those, the two I'd heard of are for Michael Mann's Heat, and Star Wars.
posted by rifflesby at 12:10 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
posted by rifflesby at 12:10 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
In my experience, people who refer to the 1982 theatrical cut as "the happy ending" are the same people who think Black Mirror San Junipero has a happy ending.
Yes, the '82 International Cut was the first version I saw, why do you ask?
posted by Molesome at 2:43 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
Yes, the '82 International Cut was the first version I saw, why do you ask?
posted by Molesome at 2:43 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
is lófasz (“horse dick”) an extremely cryptic reference to Horselover Fat / Philip K. Dick?
It could be but probably isn't. It's an obscenity which I think predates VALIS (although I can't get a reliable cite on that), and which was/is in wide use among folks who weren't particularly Philip K. Dick fans.
posted by jackbishop at 6:05 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
It could be but probably isn't. It's an obscenity which I think predates VALIS (although I can't get a reliable cite on that), and which was/is in wide use among folks who weren't particularly Philip K. Dick fans.
posted by jackbishop at 6:05 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
is lófasz (“horse dick”) an extremely cryptic reference to Horselover Fat / Philip K. Dick?
It could be but probably isn't. It's an obscenity which I think predates VALIS (although I can't get a reliable cite on that), and which was/is in wide use among folks who weren't particularly Philip K. Dick fans.
I used to work with a Hungarian guy who taught me that "lófasz" is apparently the Swiss Army Knife of expletives, with a great many uses. It can be a personal insult, something to mutter when things don't go your way, and many other things. I would imagine that EJ Olmos picked that up somehow and figured it would likely survive into any future creole.
posted by faceplantingcheetah at 6:16 AM on March 21 [5 favorites]
It could be but probably isn't. It's an obscenity which I think predates VALIS (although I can't get a reliable cite on that), and which was/is in wide use among folks who weren't particularly Philip K. Dick fans.
I used to work with a Hungarian guy who taught me that "lófasz" is apparently the Swiss Army Knife of expletives, with a great many uses. It can be a personal insult, something to mutter when things don't go your way, and many other things. I would imagine that EJ Olmos picked that up somehow and figured it would likely survive into any future creole.
posted by faceplantingcheetah at 6:16 AM on March 21 [5 favorites]
I was about to post an obituary thread for MEW (and he has the same initials as Mary Elizabeth Winstead, and how cool is that?), and gleaned this from his Wikipedia entry: "[If] you’re casting something, and you’ve got 12 problems; if they’ve got me, they only have 11 problems." What a mensch.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:15 AM on March 21 [4 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:15 AM on March 21 [4 favorites]
In my experience, people who refer to the 1982 theatrical cut as "the happy ending" are the same people who think Black Mirror San Junipero has a happy ending.
To me, "San Junipero" has a happy ending. Yes, the ending is vaguely sinister, but in a way that doesn't really affect our protagonists, who have succeeded in shrugging off the baggage that forbade them happiness in life, and found some joy together. That's the story that matters to me there, and what I'm left with, rather than "Oh no, a server farm! Run!"
But, to me, Thelma and Louise has a "happy ending," in that our heroes refuse to relent and go out on their own terms. They are undefeated and triumphant, no matter what happens seconds after the final freeze-frame of the film. So YMMV.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:08 AM on March 21 [3 favorites]
To me, "San Junipero" has a happy ending. Yes, the ending is vaguely sinister, but in a way that doesn't really affect our protagonists, who have succeeded in shrugging off the baggage that forbade them happiness in life, and found some joy together. That's the story that matters to me there, and what I'm left with, rather than "Oh no, a server farm! Run!"
But, to me, Thelma and Louise has a "happy ending," in that our heroes refuse to relent and go out on their own terms. They are undefeated and triumphant, no matter what happens seconds after the final freeze-frame of the film. So YMMV.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:08 AM on March 21 [3 favorites]
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posted by mbrubeck at 4:12 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]