Herring do?
April 10, 2024 5:36 AM Subscribe
From Andrew Gregory in the Guardian: Swapping red meat for forage fish such as herring, sardines and anchovies could save 750,000 lives a year and help tackle the climate crisis, a study suggests. Mounting evidence links red meat consumption with a higher risk of disease in humans as well as significant harm to the environment. In contrast, forage fish are highly nutritious, environmentally friendly and the most abundant fish species in the world’s oceans.
...“Our study demonstrates that the adoption of forage fish as a red meat alternative would potentially offer substantial public health benefits (with the avoidance globally of 0.5–0.75m deaths from diet related NCDs), particularly in terms of reducing ischaemic heart disease.”
Forage fish are rich in omega-3 long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids, the intake of which may prevent coronary heart disease, as well as being abundant in calcium and vitamin B12. They also have the lowest carbon footprint of any animal food source, the researchers said.
However, at the moment three-quarters of the forage fish catch is ground into fishmeal and fish oil – products mostly used for fish farming.
...“Our study demonstrates that the adoption of forage fish as a red meat alternative would potentially offer substantial public health benefits (with the avoidance globally of 0.5–0.75m deaths from diet related NCDs), particularly in terms of reducing ischaemic heart disease.”
Forage fish are rich in omega-3 long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids, the intake of which may prevent coronary heart disease, as well as being abundant in calcium and vitamin B12. They also have the lowest carbon footprint of any animal food source, the researchers said.
However, at the moment three-quarters of the forage fish catch is ground into fishmeal and fish oil – products mostly used for fish farming.
Not gonna lie, that sounds kind of tasty to me. But I have a big stash of sardine tins already. I am probably the target audience for this kind of article.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:11 AM on April 10 [9 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 6:11 AM on April 10 [9 favorites]
I dunno, I’ve been eating a lot more tinned fish lately, and relying on the Monterey Aquarium’s app for guidance, and, while herring seems pretty sustainable, both sardines and anchovies from the Mediterranean (especially the western Mediterranean) appear to be heavily overfished. So the “environmentally friendly” claim might be overstated.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:16 AM on April 10 [10 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:16 AM on April 10 [10 favorites]
I would absolutely rather go vegetarian (not much of a hardship tbh) than eat sardines or anchovies. No idea what herring is like, but fish is the one food I'm picky about.
posted by Foosnark at 6:17 AM on April 10 [9 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 6:17 AM on April 10 [9 favorites]
Curious about the aversion to sardines and anchovies, Foosnark, since I've found both pretty palatable on salads or mashed up with a little mustard to eat on crackers or bread. They make a good change from the dryness of tuna. Herring is really neutral in flavor I find, and I've had some luck with smoked trout, although the smoky smell tends to spread and linger, especially if it's heated up.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:25 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:25 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's because anchovies are way oversalted in America. But good quality imported sardines are delicious.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 6:39 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 6:39 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
Americans as a whole seem to not like oily fish. I have a hell of a time finding mackerel or herring on sale anywhere that isn't an Asian grocer. I think it's a big uphill battle to get people used to the most bland whitefish to try stuff that has some flavor to it.
posted by Ferreous at 6:45 AM on April 10 [7 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 6:45 AM on April 10 [7 favorites]
Curious about the aversion to sardines and anchovies, Foosnark, since I've found both pretty palatable on salads or mashed up with a little mustard to eat on crackers or bread. They make a good change from the dryness of tuna.
I just... don't like them? The oiliness is certainly part of it. But also I honestly cannot stand tuna at all.
Haddock can be good, and something like typical fish sticks/fish sandwich (cod probably?) is OK usually. Or something like tilapia, flounder, orange roughy, catfish but only if I'm in the mood.
posted by Foosnark at 6:47 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
I just... don't like them? The oiliness is certainly part of it. But also I honestly cannot stand tuna at all.
Haddock can be good, and something like typical fish sticks/fish sandwich (cod probably?) is OK usually. Or something like tilapia, flounder, orange roughy, catfish but only if I'm in the mood.
posted by Foosnark at 6:47 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
Curious about the aversion to sardines and anchovies, Foosnark, since I've found both pretty palatable on salads or mashed up with a little mustard to eat on crackers or bread.
I mean, it's been my experience that literally no tinned fish is good. Sardines and anchovies are almost always tinned.
posted by corb at 6:49 AM on April 10 [5 favorites]
I mean, it's been my experience that literally no tinned fish is good. Sardines and anchovies are almost always tinned.
posted by corb at 6:49 AM on April 10 [5 favorites]
Well I'll have your tinned fish. I love it! I'm having tinned fish tinned fish tinned fish tinned fish tinned fish tinned fish tinned fish baked beans tinned fish tinned fish tinned fish and tinned fish!
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 7:02 AM on April 10 [24 favorites]
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 7:02 AM on April 10 [24 favorites]
All animals require some form of nitrogen excretion as a result of basic protein metabolism. Land animals concentrate this into urea for storage in the bladder -> urination. Fish just leak ammonia straight into their environment. They are immersed in their own piss. Suffused with it, between each layer of muscle, every cell as they grow…
Is that what’s responsible for the horrible smell? The vomit-inducing taste? I have no idea, probably not, but I’d go vegan ten times over before I ate any aquatic animal.
Flipside: my early childhood was in farm country. Most red meat is cruel, inefficient, and comparatively bad for your health. Chickens, on the other hand, are fucking assholes. Delicious, nutricious, and relatively ecologicially friendly assholes who also happened to terrorize the shit out of me when I was five.
Fuck fish, fuck beef, fuck pork: chicken now, chicken always,revenge chicken forever!
posted by Ryvar at 7:10 AM on April 10 [12 favorites]
Is that what’s responsible for the horrible smell? The vomit-inducing taste? I have no idea, probably not, but I’d go vegan ten times over before I ate any aquatic animal.
Flipside: my early childhood was in farm country. Most red meat is cruel, inefficient, and comparatively bad for your health. Chickens, on the other hand, are fucking assholes. Delicious, nutricious, and relatively ecologicially friendly assholes who also happened to terrorize the shit out of me when I was five.
Fuck fish, fuck beef, fuck pork: chicken now, chicken always,
posted by Ryvar at 7:10 AM on April 10 [12 favorites]
Curious about the aversion to sardines and anchovies...
I think most Americans have only had really salty and/or oily tinned fish. I love umami and I am fond of eating fish, but even I have balked at a tin of sardines!
What should I be buying to avoid that nasty, cheap can of salt/oil overload?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:14 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
I think most Americans have only had really salty and/or oily tinned fish. I love umami and I am fond of eating fish, but even I have balked at a tin of sardines!
What should I be buying to avoid that nasty, cheap can of salt/oil overload?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:14 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
If we’re going to daydream about everyone changing their diet we might as well have everyone go vegan and leave the fish alone.
posted by Phanx at 7:28 AM on April 10 [10 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 7:28 AM on April 10 [10 favorites]
Can we still eat the rich?
posted by JohnFromGR at 7:32 AM on April 10 [14 favorites]
posted by JohnFromGR at 7:32 AM on April 10 [14 favorites]
What should I be buying to avoid that nasty, cheap can of salt/oil overload?
I'd say look for some imported Spanish or Portuguese stuff. Might have to hit up a specialty grocery. Those might be too expensive for everyday eating but at least you'd get a sense for what the better stuff might taste like. Then it's a matter of exploring downward into the stuff easier to find at local groceries until you discover something you like and can reliably find and don't mind paying for. And maybe they're just not for you, sure, tinned fish is not for everybody, but definitely chase down some higher-end imported stuff first if all you've tried so far has been the Beach Cliff-type cheap grocery stuff. Also depending on the brand some of the ones in oil or with other heavier flavors (mustard, hot peppers, &c) can be pretty good, but try to sample some of the better stuff in just water or light oil to get a better sense for what the fish itself can or should taste like, that should give you a good benchmark.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 7:34 AM on April 10 [3 favorites]
I'd say look for some imported Spanish or Portuguese stuff. Might have to hit up a specialty grocery. Those might be too expensive for everyday eating but at least you'd get a sense for what the better stuff might taste like. Then it's a matter of exploring downward into the stuff easier to find at local groceries until you discover something you like and can reliably find and don't mind paying for. And maybe they're just not for you, sure, tinned fish is not for everybody, but definitely chase down some higher-end imported stuff first if all you've tried so far has been the Beach Cliff-type cheap grocery stuff. Also depending on the brand some of the ones in oil or with other heavier flavors (mustard, hot peppers, &c) can be pretty good, but try to sample some of the better stuff in just water or light oil to get a better sense for what the fish itself can or should taste like, that should give you a good benchmark.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 7:34 AM on April 10 [3 favorites]
Costco sells tinned pacific sardines that are pretty good/not overly salty.
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 7:36 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 7:36 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
When I was fortunate enough to visit Sicily and still had my sense of smell and taste, the white anchovies were another thing altogether. They were sweet and not the least bit salty. They were sitting in a bowl of olive oil. They were fresh.
posted by DJZouke at 7:41 AM on April 10 [4 favorites]
posted by DJZouke at 7:41 AM on April 10 [4 favorites]
Stuff like this is exactly why quinoa is now 40 bucks a milligram
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:50 AM on April 10 [8 favorites]
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:50 AM on April 10 [8 favorites]
Is there any way to get forage fish that are flash-frozen, not tinned? Like the fresh white anchovies DJZouke mentioned, which are amazing, I would eat more of this kind of fish if I could find it fresh. I find both the taste and the texture of tinned fish offputting for the most part, so I have to specifically be craving that flavor, which I rarely do.
posted by indexy at 7:59 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
posted by indexy at 7:59 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
I love fish and have loved sardines, but this Michigan lad can easily see why they are not popular:
1. No bones about it, those little buggers are full of bones.
2. Meat and salmon comes in paper at the butcher counter. Tinned fish comes in... Tins, which feels like the worst form of consumer packaging.
3. "it's not so bad if you turn it into a paste" is not an argument for replacing big bites of meat, no matter how healthy it is.
posted by rebent at 8:15 AM on April 10 [6 favorites]
1. No bones about it, those little buggers are full of bones.
2. Meat and salmon comes in paper at the butcher counter. Tinned fish comes in... Tins, which feels like the worst form of consumer packaging.
3. "it's not so bad if you turn it into a paste" is not an argument for replacing big bites of meat, no matter how healthy it is.
posted by rebent at 8:15 AM on April 10 [6 favorites]
Every time some well-meaning person decides to tell people not to eat meat, another dozen Republican voters are born.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:17 AM on April 10 [3 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:17 AM on April 10 [3 favorites]
Americans as a whole seem to not like oily fish.
It may indeed be because of the tinned fish usually available in the US is loaded with salt and oil. But I also have another theory....
So, bluefish is another fish that has a reputation for being oily and icky. But I fucking love bluefish and didn't understand other people's aversion for a long time. And then, it hit me: the bluefish I had grown up eating were fish we at at my grandparents' house that we caught ourselves that same day, that were at most only four or five hours out of the water. That's actually how I grew up eating most seafood - we visited Grandma and Grandpa on Buzzards' Bay about five or six times a year, and usually that included a trip out fishing on Grandpa's boat, where we caught striper, blues, or whatever else we could, and we would end each trip with a check on Grandpa's lobster traps in the harbor. We also had clambakes every Labor Day and would dig up all the clams the day before, and they spent the night chilling in a big bucket of salt water in Grandpa's garage. One time we also went out on a scallop expedition in early October. Whatever we caught on the fishing trips, Dad and Grandpa would clean and fillet that same day as soon as we got off the boat, and some would be flash-frozen for Grandpa and Grandma and the rest we would eat that same night.
And that has completely and thoroughly spoiled me when it comes to seafood, because I simply am not able to top that in terms of freshness. I've had oysters and clams and seafood in local restaurants here in New York - but I can distinctly taste a difference between "the quahog Dad just pulled out of the water ten minutes ago" and "the quahog that was sitting somewhere overnight and then got picked up at the Fulton Fish Market this morning". Literally the only time I have been able to get good bluefish in this city was when a friend from my old kayak club went out fishing in his kayak and was having an especially good run of it, and called me as he was paddling back in to ask "you said you like bluefish, right? Want some?" And when I said yes he cleaned one of his catch out for me and brought it over, and I was already waiting with the oven broiler turned on and immediately grabbed the filets out of his hands and slapped them into a pan. And that was the fish taste I'd been missing.
So this is a very long way of saying that maybe the oilier fish don't really take well to the sort of long sitting-around that most commercially-fished fish have to put up with. Because that kind of sitting around can really make a big difference.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:27 AM on April 10 [14 favorites]
It may indeed be because of the tinned fish usually available in the US is loaded with salt and oil. But I also have another theory....
So, bluefish is another fish that has a reputation for being oily and icky. But I fucking love bluefish and didn't understand other people's aversion for a long time. And then, it hit me: the bluefish I had grown up eating were fish we at at my grandparents' house that we caught ourselves that same day, that were at most only four or five hours out of the water. That's actually how I grew up eating most seafood - we visited Grandma and Grandpa on Buzzards' Bay about five or six times a year, and usually that included a trip out fishing on Grandpa's boat, where we caught striper, blues, or whatever else we could, and we would end each trip with a check on Grandpa's lobster traps in the harbor. We also had clambakes every Labor Day and would dig up all the clams the day before, and they spent the night chilling in a big bucket of salt water in Grandpa's garage. One time we also went out on a scallop expedition in early October. Whatever we caught on the fishing trips, Dad and Grandpa would clean and fillet that same day as soon as we got off the boat, and some would be flash-frozen for Grandpa and Grandma and the rest we would eat that same night.
And that has completely and thoroughly spoiled me when it comes to seafood, because I simply am not able to top that in terms of freshness. I've had oysters and clams and seafood in local restaurants here in New York - but I can distinctly taste a difference between "the quahog Dad just pulled out of the water ten minutes ago" and "the quahog that was sitting somewhere overnight and then got picked up at the Fulton Fish Market this morning". Literally the only time I have been able to get good bluefish in this city was when a friend from my old kayak club went out fishing in his kayak and was having an especially good run of it, and called me as he was paddling back in to ask "you said you like bluefish, right? Want some?" And when I said yes he cleaned one of his catch out for me and brought it over, and I was already waiting with the oven broiler turned on and immediately grabbed the filets out of his hands and slapped them into a pan. And that was the fish taste I'd been missing.
So this is a very long way of saying that maybe the oilier fish don't really take well to the sort of long sitting-around that most commercially-fished fish have to put up with. Because that kind of sitting around can really make a big difference.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:27 AM on April 10 [14 favorites]
outgrown_hobnail, I must point out that this article is about the results of a bunch of research. Although it is true that science seems to scare Republicans. I am not telling people to stop eating meat, I just think the research is interesting.
I don't especially like sardines but I dislike cooking. For me, it turns out that tinned sardines in tomato sauce are less annoying than cooking an actual meal. I can microwave a bunch of frozen veggies, dump a tin of sardines over the top, mix it all up and call it lunch or dinner.
Re: anchovies, there's a Marcella Hazan recipe I used to make that included anchovies but did not taste like anchovies. It was delicious. I think a fair number of recipes exist that use anchovies as a kind of base to boost flavour.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:30 AM on April 10 [5 favorites]
I don't especially like sardines but I dislike cooking. For me, it turns out that tinned sardines in tomato sauce are less annoying than cooking an actual meal. I can microwave a bunch of frozen veggies, dump a tin of sardines over the top, mix it all up and call it lunch or dinner.
Re: anchovies, there's a Marcella Hazan recipe I used to make that included anchovies but did not taste like anchovies. It was delicious. I think a fair number of recipes exist that use anchovies as a kind of base to boost flavour.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:30 AM on April 10 [5 favorites]
the smoky smell tends to spread and linger, especially if it's heated up.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:54 AM on April 10 [5 favorites]
You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:54 AM on April 10 [5 favorites]
Is there any way to get forage fish that are flash-frozen
Big bags of frozen smelt at the local Asian market. Yes, bones; but they soften up when cooked. I'd prefer them head off, but that's optional.
posted by Rash at 9:02 AM on April 10 [5 favorites]
Big bags of frozen smelt at the local Asian market. Yes, bones; but they soften up when cooked. I'd prefer them head off, but that's optional.
posted by Rash at 9:02 AM on April 10 [5 favorites]
Chickens, on the other hand, are fucking assholes. Delicious,
they are also, I've been told, stupider than most plants.
posted by philip-random at 9:35 AM on April 10 [7 favorites]
they are also, I've been told, stupider than most plants.
posted by philip-random at 9:35 AM on April 10 [7 favorites]
I would happily eat fresh sardines on a weekly basis but I live inland and we never see them here. I've only ever had them in coastal areas.
posted by HotToddy at 9:38 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 9:38 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Herring have been effectively fished out on almost the entire B.C. coast (following the pilchard fishery that almost no one even remembers now.) This has had a cascade effect as, for example, salmon have had one of their most important prey decimated, and the ensuing lack of salmon is causing the resident Orca population to teeter on the brink. Meanwhile, coastal First Nations have lost one of their most important economic resources as due to historic fuckery there is not only a lack of herring, there is a lack of kelp, so the roe-on-kelp food staple and trade item is also teetering.
So much of the forage fish fisheries ends up as ground meal, cat food, fertilizer, etc. that it might seem like a good idea for humans to eat some of it directly, but it is far more important that we lighten up on these fisheries which are ecological keystones in the world's oceans.
Nice page on the BC herring fisheries through time and space.
posted by Rumple at 10:00 AM on April 10 [13 favorites]
So much of the forage fish fisheries ends up as ground meal, cat food, fertilizer, etc. that it might seem like a good idea for humans to eat some of it directly, but it is far more important that we lighten up on these fisheries which are ecological keystones in the world's oceans.
Nice page on the BC herring fisheries through time and space.
posted by Rumple at 10:00 AM on April 10 [13 favorites]
they are also, I've been told, stupider than most plants.
Setting aside utilitarian factors like LLMs taste terrible and have no nutritional value, I’m pretty sure I could make a convincing argument that eating ChatGPT instances is less ethical than eating chicken. Not setting those aside, it ain’t even close.
Delicious as they are, eating cows or pigs is a lot like eating Hufflepuffs or Harkonnen, respectively. There might be a certain wicked glee-flavored catharsis to it, but you know damn well you’re being a shitty human for indulging that part of yourself.
posted by Ryvar at 10:14 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Setting aside utilitarian factors like LLMs taste terrible and have no nutritional value, I’m pretty sure I could make a convincing argument that eating ChatGPT instances is less ethical than eating chicken. Not setting those aside, it ain’t even close.
Delicious as they are, eating cows or pigs is a lot like eating Hufflepuffs or Harkonnen, respectively. There might be a certain wicked glee-flavored catharsis to it, but you know damn well you’re being a shitty human for indulging that part of yourself.
posted by Ryvar at 10:14 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Riga Gold Sardines are amazing. So smoky, not too salty, just really really good. I ate a whole tin for lunch today.
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:24 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:24 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
Chickens, on the other hand, are fucking assholes...
they are also, I've been told, stupider than most plants.
We raised chickens for years and can confirm both counts.
posted by doctornemo at 10:59 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
they are also, I've been told, stupider than most plants.
We raised chickens for years and can confirm both counts.
posted by doctornemo at 10:59 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
>Is there any way to get forage fish that are flash-frozen, not tinned? Like the fresh white anchovies DJZouke mentioned, which are amazing, I would eat more of this kind of fish if I could find it fresh.
Whole Foods, in Colorado at least, has several varieties of non-tinned anchovies in the refrigerated section e.g. in oil and in garlic. They're awesome.
posted by NailsTheCat at 11:09 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Whole Foods, in Colorado at least, has several varieties of non-tinned anchovies in the refrigerated section e.g. in oil and in garlic. They're awesome.
posted by NailsTheCat at 11:09 AM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Delicious as they are, eating cows or pigs is a lot like eating Hufflepuffs or Harkonnen, respectively. There might be a certain wicked glee-flavored catharsis to it, but you know damn well you’re being a shitty human for indulging that part of yourself.While I appreciate you think you’re a maximum goodness human being and others are not, your feelings are irrelevant to my enjoyment of red meat. Saying “you know you think same as me” is … an ineffective argument at best.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 11:47 AM on April 10 [6 favorites]
Yes to Riga Gold. And cold herring with salad style additives is the best. The main idea with herring is that it takes on the flavour of whatever you marinate it with - my most recent experiment was Earl Grey, lemon and honey, and it was delicious.
Plus you know, those Omega fatty acids that are good for you? Dry white fish doesn't have a lot of them. You need fat for that.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:57 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
Plus you know, those Omega fatty acids that are good for you? Dry white fish doesn't have a lot of them. You need fat for that.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:57 AM on April 10 [2 favorites]
I was also not a fan of sardines. Something about eating the whole fish made it a bit too real, and it was a bit too fishy compared with canned tuna. Then I found this NYT recipe (gift link), and it changed my whole view. Mixed in with lemon juice/zest, celery, mustard, shallot, capers, and whatever else you want to bring to the party and served on a toasted bagel, this is now my go-to non-mercury-laden, omega-3-bearing, protein-rich jam. And Trader Joe's has good, inexpensive tinned sardines, for those with a TJ's nearby.
posted by the sobsister at 12:05 PM on April 10 [4 favorites]
posted by the sobsister at 12:05 PM on April 10 [4 favorites]
A friend of mine got me onto tinned sardines years ago. I was skeptical but I bought a can and they were pretty good. I now keep some so that I can make a "can't be bothered" meal of sardines, cheese, and Finn Crisps, if I just have to make something for myself. It used to be that before the pandemic started I could get a can for around $2 but now it's around $4 and I don't know if that's due to inflation, supply chain issues, or more people buying them.
If you get the chance fresh or even frozen sardines are great. Cooking them will probably stink up your home but it's worth it. My family doesn't like tinned sardines but they like the fresh or frozen ones.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:07 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
If you get the chance fresh or even frozen sardines are great. Cooking them will probably stink up your home but it's worth it. My family doesn't like tinned sardines but they like the fresh or frozen ones.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:07 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Tinned sardines are not my cup of tea. Charcoal grilled? You bet. I can eat a ton.
posted by elmono at 12:10 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
posted by elmono at 12:10 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Gilgamesh: I kind of assumed the whole “we all want to commit cannibalism” premise strongly implied a sarcasm tag, to the point where I could just let it go, but: that was extremely sarcastic and not to be taken seriously at all.
posted by Ryvar at 12:19 PM on April 10
posted by Ryvar at 12:19 PM on April 10
Chickens..., I've been told, [are] stupider than most plants.
I suspect that like most animals, humans included, chickens are pretty smart at what they do (in their case, being chickens). That said, centuries of human breeding of chickens certainly won't have favoured intelligence.
posted by senor biggles at 12:24 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
I suspect that like most animals, humans included, chickens are pretty smart at what they do (in their case, being chickens). That said, centuries of human breeding of chickens certainly won't have favoured intelligence.
posted by senor biggles at 12:24 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
I kind of assumed the whole “we all want to commit cannibalism” premise strongly implied a sarcasm tag, to the point where I could just let it go
Bystander here, but - I actually didn't get a "we all want to commit cannibalism" premise from your original comment in the first place, perhaps this is part of the misunderstanding?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:25 PM on April 10 [3 favorites]
Bystander here, but - I actually didn't get a "we all want to commit cannibalism" premise from your original comment in the first place, perhaps this is part of the misunderstanding?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:25 PM on April 10 [3 favorites]
My apologies, Ryvar. There’s an aphorism or rule or something about joking on the internet. Guess I am further proof it still applies.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 12:28 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 12:28 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
So, as for tinned fish, I am trying to find something that approximates a bottle of herring in mustard sauce that I ate in Finland. It was so good! I have some tins of French varieties of herring in mustard that I've been working through, but none are quite right. I am planning on ordering some German styles from Rainbow Tomato Garden. Is anyone familiar with them?
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:50 PM on April 10
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:50 PM on April 10
I live in Japan and the selection and variety of fish is as great as you would expect. These three types of fish are fresh and cheap, though I think there are seasons that affect availability. I grew up not liking seafood at all, but I have really broadened my palate and readily eat lots of fish...mostly. Tinned fish is one thing, but with un-tinned it should be as fresh as possible, and you just don't know what you're buying until you unpackage it and prepare it.
There are hacks, though. For smelly fish, soaking it in milk--yes milk!--for a few minutes will take away the fishiness; this works really well with salmon. Broiling fish over a grill will allow the really fatty types to release a lot of that oil and reduce the fishiness. My main pet peeve are the type of fish you have to debone as you are eating. Those are a pain in the ass, even if tasty.
If you don't like fish, try this. Eat fish every other day for a week or two. Something with switch over in your brain and you'll come to realize how good it can be. I don't like all seafood, honestly it's maybe 50/50 at best, but I've really come to appreciate and even crave certain types.
posted by zardoz at 1:30 PM on April 10 [5 favorites]
There are hacks, though. For smelly fish, soaking it in milk--yes milk!--for a few minutes will take away the fishiness; this works really well with salmon. Broiling fish over a grill will allow the really fatty types to release a lot of that oil and reduce the fishiness. My main pet peeve are the type of fish you have to debone as you are eating. Those are a pain in the ass, even if tasty.
If you don't like fish, try this. Eat fish every other day for a week or two. Something with switch over in your brain and you'll come to realize how good it can be. I don't like all seafood, honestly it's maybe 50/50 at best, but I've really come to appreciate and even crave certain types.
posted by zardoz at 1:30 PM on April 10 [5 favorites]
No idea what herring is like, but fish is the one food I'm picky about.
So, quite a while back, I was visiting a friend and he and I decided a fun thing to do would be to just buy a bunch of tinned fish from the dollar store or Grocery Outlet or something and try them all. And I was surprised at how many of the varieties I enjoyed! I'm really not an adventurous eater so even doing this was a bit of a challenge for me, but he was a drinking buddy who was fun to hang out with, and we were having a fun weekend.
And I remember herring being one of the ones that I remarked on being surprised at how much I enjoyed it. It was tinned, not pickled, but I made a mental note about it specifically. I don't remember much about the rest, but herring...
American's really don't like fish to taste like fish, but they generally don't like strongly flavored meat of any sort. We're still recovering from "pork: the other white meat" changing the flavor and texture of pork to being as close to chicken as possible.
posted by hippybear at 1:37 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
So, quite a while back, I was visiting a friend and he and I decided a fun thing to do would be to just buy a bunch of tinned fish from the dollar store or Grocery Outlet or something and try them all. And I was surprised at how many of the varieties I enjoyed! I'm really not an adventurous eater so even doing this was a bit of a challenge for me, but he was a drinking buddy who was fun to hang out with, and we were having a fun weekend.
And I remember herring being one of the ones that I remarked on being surprised at how much I enjoyed it. It was tinned, not pickled, but I made a mental note about it specifically. I don't remember much about the rest, but herring...
American's really don't like fish to taste like fish, but they generally don't like strongly flavored meat of any sort. We're still recovering from "pork: the other white meat" changing the flavor and texture of pork to being as close to chicken as possible.
posted by hippybear at 1:37 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
"That said, centuries of human breeding of chickens certainly won't have favoured intelligence."
You got that right! Just look where centuries of humans breeding humans has gotten us.
posted by chromecow at 2:55 PM on April 10 [4 favorites]
You got that right! Just look where centuries of humans breeding humans has gotten us.
posted by chromecow at 2:55 PM on April 10 [4 favorites]
Like the Empress, I have late in life understood that the reason many people don't like fish is that they don't have access to fresh fish. Old fish are disgusting. For most of my life, the fish I have eaten were caught the day I had them. I thought I didn't like oysters until I lived for 6 months in a place where you could go out and pick oysters in the fjord, with your own hands. They are yummy. But again, not if too old.
However, preserved fish are a whole different thing and an art form, whether they are smoked, tinned, gravad or pickled. It is absolutely worth paying a premium for tuna belly or squid canned in olive oil. And there are many more examples of great tinned fish. I really, really enjoy tinned cod's liver, in its own oil, but that may be an acquired taste.
Unfortunately, farmed salmon is a horrible food that one should never eat and all wild Atlantic/European salmon are endangered. So I envy all of you in the Pacific that have access to at least some salmon and can eat them as you like them.
You can make taramasalata with tinned, smoked cod roe, and improve it with the addition of some of your extremely expensive bottarga, rather than just using bottarga.
Everyone knows smoked salmon and kippers, but smoked mackerel and heering are the foods of gods. Fishy gods, I suppose, like Poseidon. Best eaten the same day as smoking, but they do keep for quite a long while.
Among the preserved fish are also dried cod, which can be prepared in many delicious ways, but have become scarce and hence expensive.
Anyway, I am here to praise the pickled herrings. Pickled herrings are in principle first preserved in brine, and then rinsed and pickled in various vinegar-based dressings, including some with mayo. I suspect the mustard sauce version GenjiandProust met in Finland is first salt-brined, then prepared with the mustard sauce which could be mayo- or cream based. (the internet tells me cream, what do you think?)
There must be dozens of recipes, at least. The vinegar "cooks" the fish, like the lime cooks the ceviche, and also preserves the fish for months. You can also pickle fresh fish, not least fried herrings. I have never seen this outside Denmark, but the point is that you fry heerings and then pickle them in vinegar with onions, peppercorns, salt, sugar, bayleaf and juniper. Yummy. Herrings go well with beer and schnapps.
posted by mumimor at 3:02 PM on April 10 [5 favorites]
However, preserved fish are a whole different thing and an art form, whether they are smoked, tinned, gravad or pickled. It is absolutely worth paying a premium for tuna belly or squid canned in olive oil. And there are many more examples of great tinned fish. I really, really enjoy tinned cod's liver, in its own oil, but that may be an acquired taste.
Unfortunately, farmed salmon is a horrible food that one should never eat and all wild Atlantic/European salmon are endangered. So I envy all of you in the Pacific that have access to at least some salmon and can eat them as you like them.
You can make taramasalata with tinned, smoked cod roe, and improve it with the addition of some of your extremely expensive bottarga, rather than just using bottarga.
Everyone knows smoked salmon and kippers, but smoked mackerel and heering are the foods of gods. Fishy gods, I suppose, like Poseidon. Best eaten the same day as smoking, but they do keep for quite a long while.
Among the preserved fish are also dried cod, which can be prepared in many delicious ways, but have become scarce and hence expensive.
Anyway, I am here to praise the pickled herrings. Pickled herrings are in principle first preserved in brine, and then rinsed and pickled in various vinegar-based dressings, including some with mayo. I suspect the mustard sauce version GenjiandProust met in Finland is first salt-brined, then prepared with the mustard sauce which could be mayo- or cream based. (the internet tells me cream, what do you think?)
There must be dozens of recipes, at least. The vinegar "cooks" the fish, like the lime cooks the ceviche, and also preserves the fish for months. You can also pickle fresh fish, not least fried herrings. I have never seen this outside Denmark, but the point is that you fry heerings and then pickle them in vinegar with onions, peppercorns, salt, sugar, bayleaf and juniper. Yummy. Herrings go well with beer and schnapps.
posted by mumimor at 3:02 PM on April 10 [5 favorites]
Team Fishy Delishy over here. Was raised in a minimal fish household because one parent had fish related trauma, so when they were gone, the other parent treated us kids to some tins of kippers. We had them outside and were very careful to clean everything up and put the cans in the outside trash.
I still feel special and indulgent every time I eat them, even a sad can of Bumblebee.
posted by jellywerker at 3:03 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
I still feel special and indulgent every time I eat them, even a sad can of Bumblebee.
posted by jellywerker at 3:03 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Every variety of fish I have ever eaten in my entire life, from just-caught north woods lake fish, through $100-per-course sushi, up to Alinea, tastes like oily rotten death with a side of poison.
I genuinely cannot understand how anyone can tolerate any of it for more than five seconds without gagging. They all, every single species, taste like the late summer dumpster behind a restaurant calling itself "fish barn" would smell.
...which I expect means I'm some kind of mutant, but instead of special powers I get to be grossed out instead. Bleah.
posted by aramaic at 3:53 PM on April 10 [4 favorites]
I genuinely cannot understand how anyone can tolerate any of it for more than five seconds without gagging. They all, every single species, taste like the late summer dumpster behind a restaurant calling itself "fish barn" would smell.
...which I expect means I'm some kind of mutant, but instead of special powers I get to be grossed out instead. Bleah.
posted by aramaic at 3:53 PM on April 10 [4 favorites]
How do you feel about cilantro?
posted by hippybear at 3:54 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 3:54 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
GenjiandProust: I just placed my second order from Rainbow Tomato Gardens. Satisfied customer after my first order. The owner appears to be a real aficionado. This time I'm going to try the POW! Habanero sardines. First time I tried cod liver and some popular brands I hadn't seen in stores around here, Nuri, Porto, etc.
posted by Schmucko at 4:05 PM on April 10 [4 favorites]
posted by Schmucko at 4:05 PM on April 10 [4 favorites]
Aramaic:
Every variety of fish I have ever eaten in my entire life, from just-caught north woods lake fish, through $100-per-course sushi, up to Alinea, tastes like oily rotten death with a side of poison.
[…]
...which I expect means I'm some kind of mutant
No, it means you and I have a similar sense of taste. Or a similar history of severe chicken-related trauma. One of the two.
posted by Ryvar at 4:11 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
Every variety of fish I have ever eaten in my entire life, from just-caught north woods lake fish, through $100-per-course sushi, up to Alinea, tastes like oily rotten death with a side of poison.
[…]
...which I expect means I'm some kind of mutant
No, it means you and I have a similar sense of taste. Or a similar history of severe chicken-related trauma. One of the two.
posted by Ryvar at 4:11 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
typical fish sticks/fish sandwich
That’s pollock. I have a vague recollection that haddock was more commonly used when I was younger. The cod fishery had already collapsed by then, so maybe at one point in history cod was the more common generic white fish, but that hasn’t been the case in quite some decades.
posted by eviemath at 4:16 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
That’s pollock. I have a vague recollection that haddock was more commonly used when I was younger. The cod fishery had already collapsed by then, so maybe at one point in history cod was the more common generic white fish, but that hasn’t been the case in quite some decades.
posted by eviemath at 4:16 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
the story was that when Cape Cod was named that, there were so many cod in the bay it was theorized, but never proven, that you could walk across the bay just on the fish.
posted by hippybear at 4:31 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:31 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
Team Fishy Delishy over here. Was raised in a minimal fish household because one parent had fish related trauma, so when they were gone, the other parent treated us kids to some tins of kippers.
This was my household too!- though eventually, after I moved out, non fish-eating parent learned to like a lot of fish. But I still love smoked kippers on toast with a thin layer of sour cream and tabasco sauce. They've gotten a lot harder to find in the stores around us, but the Bar Harbor kippers are my favorite.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:14 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
This was my household too!- though eventually, after I moved out, non fish-eating parent learned to like a lot of fish. But I still love smoked kippers on toast with a thin layer of sour cream and tabasco sauce. They've gotten a lot harder to find in the stores around us, but the Bar Harbor kippers are my favorite.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:14 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
Every variety of fish I have ever eaten in my entire life, from just-caught north woods lake fish, through $100-per-course sushi, up to Alinea, tastes like oily rotten death with a side of poison.
[…]
...which I expect means I'm some kind of mutant
Same here again, and it's really the posts like this, and the canned fish files post, which get me down about it, not everyone else chowing down salmon and prawns. I'm pretty picky about meat in general, and don't feel good ethically about it. I care a lot less about the idea of anyone eating a dozen sprats than I do a slice of bacon. Tinned fish seems so amazingly economical and convenient, I think if I *could* eat fish, I'd have spent weeks of my life ingesting no other meats than tinned sardines. Instead, I eat my beans.
Products like this tiny can of black beans and capsicum and salsa are what I've turned to as my imitation of that wondrous sardine lifestyle, and they're nice, but I suspect the fish pack a little more nutritional punch.
posted by Audreynachrome at 12:56 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
[…]
...which I expect means I'm some kind of mutant
Same here again, and it's really the posts like this, and the canned fish files post, which get me down about it, not everyone else chowing down salmon and prawns. I'm pretty picky about meat in general, and don't feel good ethically about it. I care a lot less about the idea of anyone eating a dozen sprats than I do a slice of bacon. Tinned fish seems so amazingly economical and convenient, I think if I *could* eat fish, I'd have spent weeks of my life ingesting no other meats than tinned sardines. Instead, I eat my beans.
Products like this tiny can of black beans and capsicum and salsa are what I've turned to as my imitation of that wondrous sardine lifestyle, and they're nice, but I suspect the fish pack a little more nutritional punch.
posted by Audreynachrome at 12:56 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
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posted by seanmpuckett at 5:58 AM on April 10 [6 favorites]