Hatred via weblog.

October 16, 2003 6:01 AM

Hatred via weblog. The Jewish Internet Association, a tax-exempt, non-profit California corporation, considers the Internet a battleground, where "every channel must be utilized to resist and convert others to our defense and support." A whois showed they have the same mailing address as palestinefacts.org. However, examining their weblog reveals an agenda that is every bit as hateful as Hamas.

From a recent entry: "The Palestinian Arabs go through a pretense of having a government" .... "This must end. In the past the only way such murderous, bastard regimes have ended was through massive destruction of their people and lands." .... "The same process will be required to end the fraudulant "peace process" and come to the point where there can be a new start."

The JIA site links to a guide for shutting down offensive websites. Do you think the same techniques would work against them too?
posted by insomnia_lj (43 comments total)

i_lj, I don't get how this is supposed to be MeFi-worthy. It's gonna be a bloodbath in here shortly, I'd guess. We can all look for this if we wanna, or ignore it if we wanna.

What value is there in flirting with anti-semitism/anti-islamism?
posted by dash_slot- at 6:19 AM on October 16, 2003

Really, there are some nasty Jewish people as well as some nasty Arab people? Thanks for this insight into an area which I'm sure many of us have never considered, and which has for too long been absent from Metafilter.
posted by biffa at 6:27 AM on October 16, 2003

I took but a quick glance at the site(s) mentioned and am not sure why you state that these folks are like Hamas...do they advocate suicide bombings? Elimination of all Arab states (Hamas wants Israel gone forever) etc?

It strike sme as simply a pro-Israel site and not more than that.
posted by Postroad at 6:28 AM on October 16, 2003

from the first link:

Her articles, available on the Melanie Phillips website, offer inciteful analysis...

Freudian slip?
- inciteful: No entry found. But I could invent an entry for it...
posted by dash_slot- at 6:34 AM on October 16, 2003

What value is there in flirting with anti-semitism/anti-islamism?

- Certainly nothing constructive or progressive. Although I would guess nothing sells quite like hatred (second only to sex I would muse).
posted by johnnyboy at 6:37 AM on October 16, 2003

Blah blah blah kill the jews blah blah blah kill palestinians (terrorists) blah blah blah he started it first! Blah blach blach Bonus points are awarded if you find evidence of people soliciting donations for known terrorist groups. Blah blah blach But the jews keep killing my people blah blah blah The palestinians killed my mother blah blah blah
posted by Keyser Soze at 6:39 AM on October 16, 2003

I don't think either of those dudes should have a country.
posted by mcsweetie at 6:42 AM on October 16, 2003

Finally, something on which I agree with mcsweetie.
posted by UncleFes at 6:59 AM on October 16, 2003

I generally avoid clicking on hatred, unless I'm 100% guaranteed it's something at which I can laugh.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:00 AM on October 16, 2003

whatever happened to the kibbutz...
posted by vaca at 7:09 AM on October 16, 2003

I'm a uniter! and I've brought you something to drink: apple cider!
posted by mcsweetie at 7:09 AM on October 16, 2003

If there's any cyanide in that cider, I'm going to be very disappointed ;-)
posted by UncleFes at 7:11 AM on October 16, 2003

OY.
FRIGGIN.
GEVALT.
INSOMNIA_LJ.
posted by dhoyt at 7:12 AM on October 16, 2003

"It strikes me as simply a pro-Israel site and not more than that."

Somehow, I think if I pointed out a site which advocated the massive destruction of Israel and their lands, you wouldn't just call it a pro-Palestinian website. You'd call it hate speech... and you'd be absolutely right, too.

I know you believe strongly in Israel, but that should be all the more reason for you to demand that Jewish organizations not behave in this manner.
posted by insomnia_lj at 7:18 AM on October 16, 2003

"What value is there in flirting with anti-semitism/anti-islamism?"

We can admit that it runs both ways, and denounce the extremists of both sides. It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition.
posted by insomnia_lj at 7:28 AM on October 16, 2003

I'd settle for denouncing anyone who uses violence to resolve disputes.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:36 AM on October 16, 2003

I found the techniques on shutting down a web site interesting and informative. I had never really considered how it would be approached. I suppose its because I spend most of my day putting sites up. Their politics...didn't really engage it. However the 'Dear Imam' colomn listed on the page was sort of funny in an obviously hateful propaganda way.
posted by randomnfactor at 7:39 AM on October 16, 2003

Plo chops?
posted by Outlawyr at 7:42 AM on October 16, 2003

"I'd settle for denouncing anyone who uses violence to resolve disputes."

Me too.
posted by insomnia_lj at 7:50 AM on October 16, 2003

Excuse me, that should have been, PLO chops?

And yes, violence is bad. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Time to try out a different conflict resolution approach, world.
posted by Outlawyr at 7:54 AM on October 16, 2003

PeeEllOh chops?

Simply doesn't make sense.

I'd be happy with some JLo chops though.

I miss the Popular Front of Judea.
posted by Dagobert at 8:10 AM on October 16, 2003

Insomnia: yes. I am pro-Israel. But if a prof-Israel site called for massive destruction of all arab countries, yes, indeed, I would call that a hate site. Or, similarly, massive destruction of any country with predominate Muslim population. I go to pro-Arab sites and when they do not advocate total destruction of Israel, I do not refer to them as hate site but merely pro-Palestinian or pro-arab sites.
posted by Postroad at 8:27 AM on October 16, 2003

posted by PrinceValium at 8:36 AM on October 16, 2003

That's right PrinceValium, because killing an armed terrorist equates to purposefully blowing up a bus of civilians.

80% of all Israeli deaths due to terror attacks are civilian, compared to 38% of Palestinian deaths. Discounting any military deaths on both sides, 579 Palestinians civilians were killed versus 433 Israeli's from the beginning of the 2nd intifadah till July 2002. That's a ratio of only 1.33:1.

Still so sure that many more Palestinians have died?
posted by PenDevil at 9:25 AM on October 16, 2003

And speaking of hatred...
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahatir: Jews Rule the World.
posted by PenDevil at 9:29 AM on October 16, 2003

PenDevil: I'm sure all these terrorists got a fair and objective trial before they were killed.
posted by Eloquence at 9:40 AM on October 16, 2003

Jesus Christ, PenDevil, get a sense of humor. Get Your War On isn't anti-Israeli propaganda, and it was perfectly on topic. Personally, whenever someone starts measuring righteousness with math and ratios I think the argument suffers. By your own figures, "many more Palestinians" have died. And I don't think GYWA ever says "many more innocent Palestinians" have died than Israelis.

Postroad, read the post:
"This must end. In the past the only way such murderous, bastard regimes have ended was through massive destruction of their people and lands." .... "The same process will be required to end the fraudulant "peace process" and come to the point where there can be a new start."

Um....so...Postroad....how is that not same as Hamas' strategy?
posted by jbrjake at 9:43 AM on October 16, 2003

PenDevil: from an article by Amira Haas in the Israeli daily Haaretz, keeping count:
Here are the disastrous proportions, in the hope that someone in Israel will take notice: 80 percent of the Palestinians killed were not connected to armed actions.

Like the Israelis, who experience the horror of bus bombings, the Palestinians too are all exposed to the terror of missiles and bombs exploding in the heart of the civilian population centers. This terror, and the tribal need for vengeance (which is not foreign to Israelis) have become a true "terror infrastructure."

Terror is terror, and if you really have to measure it, Israeli state terror is older, broader and equally indiscriminate with the Hamas/Jihad loonies...
posted by talos at 10:03 AM on October 16, 2003

How about a plo chop from JLo?
posted by Outlawyr at 10:06 AM on October 16, 2003

Pendevil, please reread the fourth panel of the comic strip.
posted by PrinceValium at 10:08 AM on October 16, 2003

The more of these threads I read, the more obvious it is that both sides are wrong and that the conflict will never, and can never, end.

It seems as long as humans live on this planet there will be war in the middle east.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:25 AM on October 16, 2003

We could always kick everybody else out of Israel/Palestine and move in the Buddhists from Tibet...
posted by wendell at 10:35 AM on October 16, 2003

As good Mericans, shouldn't we just realize its our duty to beat the stuffing out of any country or faction that uses violence to resolve disputes? After all, they can't punch each other if we break both sets of arms...

... hey, by the way, is there any oil under that Israel place? Just wonderin...
posted by Perigee at 11:26 AM on October 16, 2003

My solution is simple. Since 1949, we've given Israel something like $85 billion. And what has it gotten us? Bupkis.

I'm thinking, we get the other nine wealthiest nations in the world each to cough up $100 billion apiece. Add that to the near $100 billion that we're about to waste in Iraq, and you've got a cool trillion USD. Divide that sum equally among every Palestinian man, woman and child and you're looking at around a million dollars per family. If you were living in Gaza and someone offered you a million bucks to take a hike, you'd do it. Take your million bucks, move to Vancouver or Cheyenne or some other place where there's no desert, buy a nice house, and live out your days in peace and quiet. "Here's a million bucks, guys," we'd say. "And here are the real estate listings in Eugene and Wichita. You do the math. Have a nice day!"

I tell you, this could work!
posted by vraxoin at 12:00 PM on October 16, 2003

"We could always kick everybody else out of Israel/Palestine and move in the Buddhists from Tibet..."

My personal choice would be to use the area to store all of the world's nuclear waste. Turn it into a place where no one can ever go.
posted by y6y6y6 at 12:02 PM on October 16, 2003

Vraxoin, of course Israel could just make them all citizens. Might be a lot cheaper and certainly works well with that whole democracy vibe so many are so willing to flaunt.
posted by filchyboy at 12:24 PM on October 16, 2003

of course Israel could just make them all citizens.

Somebody can have my citizenship. I don't want it, but they offered it to me anyway. The First Amendment in the USA may be compromised, but at least we've got one.
posted by PrinceValium at 12:34 PM on October 16, 2003

"My personal choice would be to use the area to store all of the world's nuclear waste. Turn it into a place where no one can ever go."

Mmmm... tastes like Armageddon! Extra crispy, please!
posted by insomnia_lj at 1:03 PM on October 16, 2003

I'm still waiting for Bush to declare Israel part of the axis of evil since they have undeclared nuclear weapons.

/getyourflameon!
posted by haqspan at 1:06 PM on October 16, 2003

of course Israel could just make them all citizens

Of course Israel would never do that, as integrating non-Jews into the Jewish State by definition removes the Jewish State from existence.

It's a scary scenario, but one the over-excited Israeli government needs to start considering very soon: if Israel does not start realistically looking at negotiating a two-state solution with Palestinian refugees, then eventually they're going to switch to a one-state solution.

If you think Israel has trouble now with several million Arabs in Israeli-claimed land demanding a state, imagine what will happen if/when several million Arabs in Israeli-claimed land announce "okay, we give up, you win. This is Israel now. So... when do we Israelis all get to vote?"
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 1:55 PM on October 16, 2003

That's what I've been saying! Or more precisely, so long as there's humans who still cling to the barbaric idea of throwing rocks at one another and the moon to settle disputes, we are inevitably an endangered species, and eventually Mother Nature will wipe us off her skin like a blemish, if we don't kill ourselves first.

So come on over here Y6 and sit by me. We'll watch the stars go out...

vraxoin this won't work and I'll tell ya why. The last thing that the people who do have money wanna do is give money (and therefore power and influence) to the people who don't have money. Sharing the wealth tends to weaken one's own place. Rather, they want to control the flow of money and use it like a weapon to force those they don't like out of areas they do want. We did the same thing to Native Americans here in the states in the first century or so of this country's existence. Only, Israelis aren't even pretending to deal with the Palestinians. At least we smoked peace pipes with the indians before we pushed them to reservations (land we didn't want at the time).

If one gave a million dollars today to each Palestinian, they'd use that money to buy the property they're being removed from in the first place, then they wouldn't stop there, and there goes your Israeli state. No more Zion.

This is ultimately what has been going on between Israel and Palestine for the past several decades and it's why so many Palestinians are understandably upset.

Yes I'm aware it's more complicated than this, but here's the nutshell version.

Israel has money, and uses that money to find more and more elbow room. They use it to buy land and miltary support and influence with other countries. They use it to build walls and man armies. They use it to spin recent history and current events in the international media towards their favor. Money is a powerful weapon in the right hands.

Jews have built settlements in the Gaza strip (and elsewhere), in areas that Palestinians claim is their territory. The jews buy the property, so legally the palestinans no longer have a legal claim. So the palestinians resort to violence to protect their livelihood and their culture.

"You use a gun. I use a fountain pen. What's the difference?" - DieHard

There is no right or wrong here. Both sides are both right and wrong, depending on your perspective. It's not that one side has less claim than the other to the land or to the preservation of their own kind. Both have equally legitimate arguments. The problem is they can't share, because their belief systems, and over two thousand years of history, preclude them from tolerating one another.

So there's your hate. We're talking about the oldest existing human cultures on this planet, yet these descendants of those who followed Moses and Muhammed are acting like babies. It's a shame one of those guys didn't come up with the commandment: "Thou shalt not be childish jerks to one another."
posted by ZachsMind at 1:58 PM on October 16, 2003

ponder this purely hypothetical situation... the fiefdom of fred invades and captures DC. wipes out the elected government and sets up shop. what do we as americans do? accept occupation? GW smoosh our last and now deposed president exhorts americans to resist by any means and to drive out the occupation. Now every suicide bomber is a martyr, but that is ok right? because its our country. Im not even gonna explain any further but remember in much of the arab(and world at large) these Palestinian "terror" organizations are legitimate "freedom fighters" french resistance any one? do I agree with blowing up discos and busses...no but what would Americans do in the same situations?
posted by hoopyfrood at 4:43 PM on October 17, 2003

I've pondered the same thing, although in somewhat more coherent terms. the reason why I can't ever see the two state thing happenin' is that I don't think anyone on the Israeli side is willing to forgive the Palestinians for their acts of terrorism (not that I blame them).

I think the Palestinians deserve their land but they've already shot themselves in the foot. but then I think, what other recourse is there? one of the consequences of having an staggeringly huge military is that aggressors can't engage you in traditional ways and have to resort to things like terrorism. we learned this the hard way two years ago and Israel has been learning about it for ages and ages now. I may not approve of their methods, but the Palestinians an overwhelming force that would rather they not exist anymore. they really are fighting for their freedom, which is more than I can say about our boys in Iraq.
posted by mcsweetie at 9:47 PM on October 17, 2003