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Charlton Heston dead at 84
April 5, 2008 9:51 PM Subscribe

Charlton Heston has died at age 84.
posted by cerebus19 (258 comments total) 8 users marked this as a favorite

Give him some time to chill, and then I believe there's a gun that needs some prying.
posted by Schlimmbesserung at 9:54 PM on April 5 [177 favorites]

I so thought about saying that, but decided it wasn't appropriate for an obit post, even in this case.
posted by cerebus19 at 9:56 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]

So long, Bright Eyes.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:57 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]

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posted by crazy finger at 9:58 PM on April 5

Give him some time to chill, and then I believe there's a gun that needs some prying.

I was going to say that! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
posted by dw at 9:59 PM on April 5

NY Times on his death and career.

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posted by inconsequentialist at 10:00 PM on April 5

"Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!"^* -- so sayeth Moses.

Lest we forget Heston's interview with Michael Moore' in 'Bowling for Columbine.'
posted by ericb at 10:01 PM on April 5

Give him some time to chill, and then I believe there's a gun that needs some prying.

From my cold dead hands!
posted by ericb at 10:03 PM on April 5

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posted by Iridic at 10:03 PM on April 5

I think his influence on American society through his work with the NRA has been detrimental to our country. But at I acknowledge that he's had quite the influence, both in film and politics. I never did particularly like the way he was portrayed by Michael Moore. It made Heston seem old and confused. Maybe he was. But while I very much disagreed with a number of his positions, he never struck me as an evil man. Just one that had passionate beliefs that I couldn't quite reconcile with my own. I wish his remaining family and friends well and I hope that history treats him kindly.
posted by afflatus at 10:04 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]

With his large, muscular build, well-boned face and sonorous voice, Heston proved the ideal star during the period when Hollywood was filling movie screens with panoramas depicting the religious and historical past. ''I have a face that belongs in another century,'' he often remarked. -- NYT obit

"well-boned" face?
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:11 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]

wikipedia
posted by Brian B. at 10:11 PM on April 5

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posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 10:12 PM on April 5

So can we have the rifle now?
posted by jfrancis at 10:15 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]

A great guy, and one of my favorite actors. If everyone in the NRA was as civil and classy as he was, they'd have a lot more supporters.

3 Rules for being a man:

1. No Whining
2. Suck it up and take it
3. What would Charlton Heston do?

Godspeed, Chuck.
posted by Scoo at 10:15 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]

What exactly is wrong with gun ownership? It's a Constitutionally enshrined right, and for a reason. Being upset that Charlton Heston represented the 2nd amendment's strongest defender is kind of like getting angry over the ACLU defending hateful (but entirely lawful) speech
posted by polyhedron at 10:15 PM on April 5 [13 favorites]

I never did particularly like the way he was portrayed by Michael Moore. It made Heston seem old and confused.

Heston was suffering from Alzheimer's during that interview. Pretty crappy to portray his confused rambling as racist, when he had actually been a civil rights activist. (Pretty stupid, too, because it did a lot to undermine any last vestiges of credibility the film may have had as an attempt at fair-minded investigation of a complex issue. /derail)
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:15 PM on April 5 [18 favorites]

He was a man, an actor, an activist, a son, a husband, a father, a grandfather. We don't agree with his politics or everything he said or stood for. He's dead. Can the snark rest for just a little while? I'm sure it won't. Never mind.
posted by wv kay in ga at 10:16 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]

Interesting. Apparently his conservative grandstanding came relatively late in his life. From Wikipedia:

In 1956 Heston campaigned for Presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson and John F. Kennedy in 1960. In 1961, in Oklahoma on a publicity tour, he joined a picket line at the segregated theater premiering his movie. During the civil rights march held in Washington, D.C. in 1963, he accompanied Martin Luther King Jr., wearing a sign that read "All Men Are Created Equal"...In 1968, following the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy, Heston appeared on The Joey Bishop Show and, along with fellow actors Gregory Peck, Kirk Douglas and James Stewart, called for public support for President Johnson's Gun Control Act of 1968.

He was an opponent of McCarthyism and racial segregation, seeing it as helping the cause of Communism worldwide. He opposed the Vietnam War and considered Richard Nixon a disaster for America.

Huh. What shifted his opinions so dramatically?
posted by Iridic at 10:16 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]

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posted by [son] QUAALUDE at 10:18 PM on April 5

Funny, I love guns, yet I still thought he was a bit of a special case. Sad though, that it turned out he wasn't immortal; condolences to family, as if they are reading this.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 10:19 PM on April 5

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A period won't do it, this time. Here's a salute to you, Mr. Heston.
posted by paulsc at 10:22 PM on April 5

Times like these... times when we discuss here on Metafilter the death of a controversial individual... makes me feel all conflicted inside. I feel like I should simply be offering my condolences, but then I also feel that to simply say nothing about what I truly thought of the individual would be to wash over the misdeeds and crimes that I feel the individual has committed.

But I think the best thing to do here is to simply offer the standard full-stop, rather than speak ill of the dead. The man was definitely flawed, no doubt about that, but were I to speak ill of him I would be acting just as disrespectfully as he had acted to the victims of Columbine.

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posted by Effigy2000 at 10:22 PM on April 5

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posted by gyc at 10:22 PM on April 5

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posted by The Light Fantastic at 10:23 PM on April 5

Being upset that Charlton Heston represented the 2nd amendment's strongest defender is kind of like getting angry over the ACLU defending hateful (but entirely lawful) speech

But here's the thing: you can support gun rights (as I do) AND still think that the NRA is fueled by a tremendous amount of crazy talk (some of which -- though by no means all -- came from Heston in his later days). They represent one political position of gun owners, but they most certainly do not represent the politics of all gun owners.

Having said that, I agree with IRFH that Michael Moore's portrayal of Heston in Bowling for Columbine was a cheap shot.
posted by scody at 10:26 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]

He was actually 83. He would've been 84 in October.
posted by ryanhealy at 10:27 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]

It's people... Soylent Green is made out of people.

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posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:27 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]

I disagree when you say that it undermined the last vestiges of credibility for Bowling For Columbine, but at same time, I do think it was rather a low point as I mentioned earlier. I thought it was an excellent movie (by and large) and made its point well, but the bit with Heston was cruel and petty.

As for gun ownership being a Constitutionally enshrined right...well, that really hasn't been tested curiously enough. It's there in the Constitution but what it means legally has been surprisingly ill defined. The Supreme Court is about to hear the first case squarely aimed at indivdual vs group gun ownership. I strongly suspect they will take an individual gun ownership stance, but at this point, the interpretation is formed by social groups, not by the courts.

And I know it's probably too much to ask, but lets try for obitfilter that has more content and context to it in the future. The man was 84 years old. He had an extensive career in film, politics and society. It deserves more than a single link (even if I'm not wild about him) and if you can't come up with more than one link, you aren't the person to make the post. Don't worry about timeliness, I assure you that people will find it on the AP wire.
posted by afflatus at 10:27 PM on April 5 [8 favorites]

Huh. What shifted his opinions so dramatically?

According to wikipedia, he also opposed abortion, and many men suddenly switched sides emotionally when women started demanding equality, during a time when machismo fell out of favor.
posted by Brian B. at 10:28 PM on April 5

Yeah, the post could stand some fleshing-out, but w/e.

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posted by exlotuseater at 10:29 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]

Condolences.

No getting around his position in the history of movies. Heston was a staple of network movie reruns all through my childhood -- you didn't grow up in the 1960s and 1970s without seeing his craggy face and hearing his booming voice in "The Ten Commandments" and the like. The obits will all focus on those movies, but it shouldn't be forgotten that he delivered plenty of good performances in non-epic/costume drama movies, too, like Orson Welles' "Touch of Evil."
posted by blucevalo at 10:29 PM on April 5

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posted by Mikey-San at 10:32 PM on April 5

Great man...RIP
posted by markulus at 10:33 PM on April 5

Well, you know, Heston was the President of the NRA at the time of Moore's interview with him. If you ask me, that means that it was ok for Moore to ask a tough question or two.
posted by washburn at 10:37 PM on April 5 [18 favorites]

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posted by Mr_Zero at 10:39 PM on April 5

jesus christ, I hope the Nuge doesn't a sound byte.
posted by Mr_Zero at 10:41 PM on April 5

The wikipedia article makes me realize what I thought I knew was a 1-dimensional, 1-note caricature that I got from Bowling for Columbine. What an interesting life.

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posted by tarheelcoxn at 10:48 PM on April 5

I liked the guy even though he was gun nuts and really felt like kicking Michael Moore in the nuts when he set him up for Bowling for Columbine.

Rest in Peace, you dirty ape!
posted by fenriq at 10:53 PM on April 5

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         _/__         ___;
      ,~~    |  __--~~
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posted by felix betachat at 10:56 PM on April 5 [25 favorites]

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A fascinating guy, and regardless of what you think about any of his stances in particular, I think it's safe to say that he was not one to back down on issues that he felt strongly about.

But that we could all die having lived such interesting lives.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:01 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]

He's not dead; he's just reloading. Here's some fossilized 80's pop music to watch while we wait: http://youtube.com/watch?v=yWa3ouFWwJs
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 11:04 PM on April 5

Well, you know, Heston was the President of the NRA at the time of Moore's interview with him. If you ask me, that means that it was ok for Moore to ask a tough question or two.

That was Michael Moore's argument too, and I can't help but agree.
posted by banished at 11:06 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]

Cross over to the other side of the river now, and rest under the cool of the shade.
posted by Senator at 11:07 PM on April 5

Wayne: [looks at camera] Do we have to put up with this? I mean, can't we get a better actor? I know it's a small part, but I think we can do better than this.
[person from set crew comes in and replaces actor with Charlton Heston]
Good Actor: Gordon Street? Ah, yes, Gordon Street. I once knew a girl who lived on Gordon Street. Long time ago, when I was a young man. Not a day passes I don't think her and the promise that I made which I will always keep. That one perfect day on Gordon Street. That's uh, five blocks up, two over.
Wayne: [choking back tears] Thank you.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:17 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]

The life of Charlton Heston: the second greatest story every told.
posted by GuyZero at 11:19 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]

As Voltaire once may or may not have stated, depending on who you ask, I disagreed with some of what Charlton Heston said, but would fight to the death for his right to say it. ...Okay. So I wouldn't actually fight because I don't believe violence resolves anything. Certainly not to the death, cuz I kinda like living. You know what I mean. He was a respected man, loved by many, a talented actor, and a damn fine hooman bean.

Thank you Mr. Heston for your work on Peer Gynt, The Greatest Show On Earth, Pony Express, The Ten Commandments, Touch Of Evil, Ben-Hur, The Greatest Story Ever Told, Planet Of The Apes, Julius Caesar, The Omega Man, Antony and Cleopatra, Soylent Green, Airport 1975, Earthquake, Midway, Two Minute Warning, A Man For All Seasons, True Lies, and all that other stuff. Humanity is eternally in your debt. Thank you for taking yourself too seriously when you did, and thank you for not taking yourself too seriously when it was funny. Thank you for your life, kind sir. You leave us humbled and thoughtful.

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posted by ZachsMind at 11:19 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]

Mr. Heston was excellent as Cardinal Richelieu in Richard Lester's Three Musketeers and Four Mustketeers.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:19 PM on April 5

Ben Hur can finally rest now.
posted by Lynsey at 11:20 PM on April 5

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posted by katillathehun at 11:29 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]

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posted by Seekerofsplendor at 11:30 PM on April 5

Oh yeah, Im putting my paws all over that corpse.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:34 PM on April 5 [27 favorites]

OK, I'm just going to say this, so please don't jump all over me, but: why is it when someone I didn't know personally and couldn't stand when they were alive dies I'm all of a sudden expected to say nice things about them? I have never understood this. This same thing happened when Jerry Falwell died, although he was a far, far more horrible human being than Heston. Heston was a B-movie actor whose actions as a political organizer later in life have caused untold harm. I'm not going to piss on his grave, but I'm not going to pretend I worshipped him either. It's distasteful.
posted by DecemberBoy at 11:37 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]

Heston was suffering from Alzheimer's during that interview. Pretty crappy to portray his confused rambling as racist, when he had actually been a civil rights activist.

Pretty bizarre, telling and damning — take your pick — of the NRA to place a confused, rambling, mentally ill fool at the head of its organization, who chooses to try to legitimize its cause by storming a town that is freshly dealing with children being shot to death and telling its residents to suck it up.

One would think a so-called "civil rights activist" would have been just infinitesimally more considerate of other human beings. For him, I can only surmise that anyone not packing heat is sub-human and not worthy of any dignity or respect in a time of grief. For that alone, he deserves no respect or consideration. Fuck that guy, seriously.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:37 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]

Well, you know, Heston was the President of the NRA at the time of Moore's interview with him.

True, and remember that the news of his Alzheimer's hadn't yet broke when the interview was conducted.

Of course, that bit (especially the part afterwards, when Moore leaves the photograph on the doorstep for that extra guilt-tripping/tear-jerking effect) *is* what ultimately killed the film.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:39 PM on April 5

And that is the important thing.
posted by Dr. Curare at 11:49 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]

"Decent person turns into a dick as his mental faculties fail" is hardly a unique story.

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posted by Pope Guilty at 11:50 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]

DecemberBoy: "I'm not going to piss on his grave, but I'm not going to pretend I worshipped him either. It's distasteful."

I determined long ago that these obit threads in MeFi are distasteful from the get go. By design, sorta by necessity, it's insensitive for the lot of us to virtually step into this cyber space and waft eloquent or vomit bile in regards to the most recently deceased famous person, as if it matters.

These obit threads are also, for some, kinda ..oh gee i dunno, therapeutic maybe? Is that the right word? They're not really necessary, and yet for reasons I can't quite fathom and would probably prefer not understanding, I kinda like it when MeFi does this.

If you hated the guy, you can virtually dance on his grave. If you adored the guy, this is your chance to say a last few words in a way that doesn't hurt anybody, doesn't mean anything, but it means something to you, and the people who read this can opt to decide if it means something to them. No harm no foul and all that.

If you didn't worship him, but didn't hate him, this would be a chance to kinda come to grips with that, and decide where you stand, if you stand at all, with how you feel about a given celebrity, but let's be perfectly frank here: it doesn't matter a box of animal crackers where any of us stand. None of us knew him personally. You either liked his body of work or you didn't. You either agree with his political views or you don't. Makes no difference to him. He's dead.

So if you wanna piss on his grave in here, go right ahead. If you wanna defend him, you can do that too. Funerals. Wakes. Memorials. Threads like this. They're not for the dead. They're for the living.
posted by ZachsMind at 11:56 PM on April 5 [21 favorites]

Mostly because it makes you look like a better person.

Which is awesome, because it shifts the standard of being a better person from what you do and believe to your adherence to a set of social conventions; it becomes more important to give the appearance of decency than to be decent.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:57 PM on April 5 [13 favorites]

"Pharaoh of Egypt! You have not yet obeyed the Lord. Let my pistols go."
posted by isopraxis at 12:01 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

What a great voice he had.

Today, Ben Hur would be directed by Michael Bay and star Keanu Reeves. The great race would all be CGI, and everyone would speak with faux English accents that occasionally lapse back to Californian.

The first Planet of the Apes is one of my all time favorite films. Wonderfully subversive in its damning indictment of religious orthodoxy.

I love how he voiced the word "Omega" in Beneath the Planet of the Apes.

When Clinton was president I saw bumper stickers that read "My president is Charlton Heston".
posted by Tube at 12:08 AM on April 6

I guess we know who'll get the most applause next year on the Oscars' Roll Call Of Death segment.

Anyway, I enjoyed his acting work. RIP, man.
posted by ktoad at 12:09 AM on April 6

Iridic writes "Huh. What shifted his opinions so dramatically?"

Well, obviously I don't know. I can tell you this though: I've always been a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, because I support the Constitution as an indivisible document, despite an emotional aversion to guns. In the last seven years, that emotional aversion has been eroded by an increasing awareness that guns -- force -- may be the last bulwark of freedom.
posted by orthogonality at 12:15 AM on April 6 [6 favorites]

Now Moses went up from the plains of Moab to mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which is opposite Jericho. And the LORD showed him all the land… Then the LORD said to him, ‘This is the land which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, "I will give it to your descendants"; I have let you see it with your eyes, but you shall not go over there.’ So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day. Although Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died, his eye was not dim, nor his vigor abated
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:19 AM on April 6

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posted by Krrrlson at 12:40 AM on April 6

Well, you know, Heston was the President of the NRA at the time of Moore's interview with him.

Yes. I didn't see the interview; if it was particularly cruel, maybe Moore should have left it out of the film, but the NRA shouldn't have retained a mentally incapacitated man as their president and spokesman. At the least, someone at the NRA should have made sure the interview never happened.

Huh. What shifted his opinions so dramatically?

By the look of it, Heston's opinions didn't shift. When he was younger, he, like many younger people, developed beliefs that at the time marked him as a liberal politically and made him a natural Democrat. But I bet he laughed at hippies. When he was in his 70s and 80s, he was probably still for Martin Luther King and his ideas (and still laughing at hippies), but now that just makes you normal.

He didn't become a Republican until he was in his 60s and he realized that his beliefs fit the contemporary version of the Republican party more than they fit the contemporary version of the Democratic party. By that time, he (like Tipper Gore and many other conservatives) was complaining about Ice T's "Cop Killer" lyrics, but it was the culture that had changed; I'm sure Heston would have been against "Cop Killer" in the 1940s or 1950s, too, if such a song had been allowed to exist then.

And he probably was always against gun control, but it just wasn't a big thing when he was younger. He wasn't a gun control activist until he was in his 70s, when he was essentially retired and when there was a stronger movement to make it actually harder to get guns. By that time, he was a cranky old man ready to say stuff like, "Mr. Clinton, sir, America didn’t trust you with our health care system. America didn’t trust you with gays in the military. America doesn’t trust you with our 21-year-old daughters, and we sure, Lord, don’t trust you with our guns. Mr. Clinton, get off our lawns!"
posted by pracowity at 12:40 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

Of course, that bit (especially the part afterwards, when Moore leaves the photograph on the doorstep for that extra guilt-tripping/tear-jerking effect) *is* what ultimately killed the film.

Killed the film? How? By giving it an Oscar? By somehow making it one of the top grossing documentaries of all time? You mean some sort of death by kindness? Or do you mean that when Rush Limbaugh told you what to think about the film, the Heston interview was what he brought up? The fact that it was wrong to interview the heard of the NRA and make him feel bad about spitting on those kids' graves because he was senile?

What?
posted by cytherea at 12:55 AM on April 6 [11 favorites]

By the look of it, Heston's opinions didn't shift. When he was younger, he, like many younger people, developed beliefs that at the time marked him as a liberal politically and made him a natural Democrat. But I bet he laughed at hippies. When he was in his 70s and 80s, he was probably still for Martin Luther King and his ideas (and still laughing at hippies), but now that just makes you normal.

What the hell are you talking about? What is the name of your planet in bizzarro world? You're seriously contending that the Democratic and Republican parties have moved to the *left* since the sixties?
posted by cytherea at 1:04 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

I grew up enjoying his movies, even the cheesy ones, so thank you, Mr. Heston, for entertaining me.

And for those who will always remember him as Moses...this YouTube clip is for you.
posted by mosk at 1:09 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]

Or do you mean that when Rush Limbaugh told you what to think about the film, the Heston interview was what he brought up? The fact that it was wrong to interview the heard of the NRA and make him feel bad about spitting on those kids' graves because he was senile?

So presumably being better than that yourself, can we safely put you down as being against spitting on the senile guy's grave, too?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:12 AM on April 6

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posted by mattr at 1:19 AM on April 6

....is kind of like getting angry over the ACLU defending hateful (but entirely lawful) speech

Words don't kill. Guns do.
posted by cmgonzalez at 1:21 AM on April 6

And he probably was always against gun control, but it just wasn't a big thing when he was younger.

He wasn't, though, which is part of what makes his story interesting. He supported gun control after the Kennedy assasination. His is possibly an instructive story, no matter which side of the issue you tend to fall on.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:23 AM on April 6

Though as far as his acting went, I liked his work.
posted by cmgonzalez at 1:25 AM on April 6

Curiously, few people seem to give Fred Phelps a pass, despite all the harassment he's given the families of dead soldiers at their funerals. When Phelps dies, all his surviving relatives need to do is claim he had a neurological disease, and that this invalidates any and all criticism of the man's behavior.

Or Phelps just needs to somehow get a couple quotable lines into a few decades-old B-movies, because being a worse actor than Bill Shatner in some shitty sci-fi movies is clearly justification enough to look past the morally heinous act of collecting a few hundred shrill gun nuts together, in order to harass the grieving parents of murdered children to make a point.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:27 AM on April 6 [9 favorites]

"Now Moses went up from the plains of Moab to mount Nebo"
Moses mounted Nebo? I never knew that, the dirty old man.
posted by vivelame at 1:34 AM on April 6

Strange how in his death, it seems Heston's best known role was in Bowling for Columbine. Shame.

Today, I mourn the death of one of the last great iconic actors from the golden age of Hollywood. Gun-right activism aside, he was Legend. There is no denying the cultural mark he has left on spring-time television viewership and trips to Manhattan.

We can hate him for his gun-toting ways, for his anti-abortion stance, and his other conservative credentials; but the man who lobbied for JFK, picketed his own movie because the theater was segregated, and marched with Dr. King in 1963, has earned my respect.

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posted by jabberjaw at 1:34 AM on April 6 [4 favorites]

cytherea writes "You're seriously contending that the Democratic and Republican parties have moved to the *left* since the sixties?"

I won't speak for pracowity, but culture has moved left: lifestyles that were kept secret or despised or condemned in the sixties (homosexulity, interracial relationships, single motherhood, atheism, etc.) are now more-or-less accepted. In part because of the courageous advocacy of people like Mr. Heston.

Let's not get hung-up on, let's not make a litmus test, of gun rights advocacy. One can be a liberal and for gun ownership rights.
posted by orthogonality at 1:43 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]

Which is awesome, because it shifts the standard of being a better person from what you do and believe to your adherence to a set of social conventions; it becomes more important to give the appearance of decency than to be decent.

Controling one's impulse to speak ill of the dead, tamping down that impulse to unleash one's hate, is probably decent practice.

We can't blame Heston for the bad gun laws and gun culture in the US outright. His best movies are classics.

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posted by vrakatar at 1:44 AM on April 6

Controling one's impulse to speak ill of the dead, tamping down that impulse to unleash one's hate, is probably decent practice.

But WHY? Why shouldn't we "speak ill of the dead" if the dead are assholes? I mean, there are people in this thread lauding The Omega Man and Airport 1975 and Return Of The Son Of The Illegitimate Daughter Of The Planet Of The Apes as good movies. That's just completely ridiculous. Pretend I'm a Martian and explain to me why people pretend to say nice things about someone who was widely despised yesterday. Because it's a social convention and we don't dare question it?
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:05 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]

Any chance we can skip the part of the thread where we start calling each other names?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:06 AM on April 6 [4 favorites]

DecemberBoy writes "Because it's a social convention and we don't dare question it?"

Because the dead can't reply to the living's attacks, and because we'll all all too soon be in their six-feet-under position.
posted by orthogonality at 2:21 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

It's Raining Florence Henderson wrote:

"Any chance we can skip the part of the thread where we start calling each other names?"

What... and miss all the fun?...
posted by milkwood at 2:37 AM on April 6

Controling one's impulse to speak ill of the dead, tamping down that impulse to unleash one's hate, is probably decent practice.

Yes, but there's a difference between hate and criticism, first of all. It's entirely appropriate to engage in debate about the deeds and words of public figures, whether they are dead or alive.

Secondly, it's not hard to think of extreme examples of individuals no one would suggest we not speak ill of. . .
posted by flotson at 2:40 AM on April 6

Spitting on the dead?
Tasteless.
Period.

I've just about had it with this place.
posted by Dizzy at 2:44 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

I don't think we should speak ill of the dead if they're small time assholes. My grandfather died about a decade ago, he didn't treat me awesome, but I'd never really say much more than that outside of very close personal relationships. Because, being silent about him doesn't make me complicit in anything.

Big time assholes though? It's my opinion that being silent about them, in life or death, does involve a sort of complicity. Which makes the "be decent, and don't speak ill" kind of laughably gross.

I don't know how anyone who says that sort of thing can't feel gross by the closeness that statement shares with the statements that women have been told to be nice and decent and not say anything. Or other minorities have been told.

I think there's a real pathology in secret hoarding, and keeping the dead, and the great ills they propagate, quiet can only be harmful.

(I don't have a dog in the race either, other than I could probably be described as a lefty who believes in 2nd amendment rights. I barely know anything about Heston. And I am sorry for his family's loss.)
posted by birdie birdington at 2:44 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

I didn't like him much and I'm not sad about his death, but RIP anyway dude.
posted by zouhair at 2:46 AM on April 6

Meta.

Absolutely disgusting, people.

An obit thread that links to "comingsoon.net" - ? What are you saying - that Zombie Charlton Heston will soon appear to commence his reign of terror? Please show just a little respect in future, and break such news by linking to "justleft.net" or "notcominganymorecausehe'sdead.com". You assholes make me SICK.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 2:54 AM on April 6

I don't think we should speak ill of the dead if they're small time assholes.

I was thinking the same thing but just didn't know how to word it--thanks!
posted by hadjiboy at 2:59 AM on April 6

You're seriously contending that the Democratic and Republican parties have moved to the *left* since the sixties?

Yes, though not particularly since the 1960s. I'm saying Heston, born in 1924 and probably fully formed socially by about the end of WWII, would have seen the memberships of both major parties in the US shift to the left as succeeding generations slowly shifted the country that way. Things that look stodgy to you now would have been pretty liberal when he was in his 20s.

Look who was running the Democratic Party in the 1960s -- old white guys, ex-military types, Sinatra fans. Vietnam was a Democratic war continued by Republicans. Now the nomination is going to go to a black man or a white woman. Neither has done military service and both have done drugs.

There are women and minorities of both parties in high office and running big corporations. Sex and drugs and rock and roll are old-fashioned. All sorts of people who would have been shunned or confined as perverts, freaks, trash (non-whites, gays, transsexuals, vegetarians, alcoholics and other sorts of addicts, Mormons, test-tube babies, people on medication for various mental problems, etc.) are now accepted in both parties. Just open an old magazine or two, read the articles, look at the ads. I don't have to very tediously list all the changes.

Relative to each other, the two major parties may have moved a little bit towards the center, so that each is a bit more like the other, but the center of American society continues to slide to the left (relative to preceding generations) and the parties can only follow.

He supported gun control after the Kennedy assassination.

Yes, but that was after the RFK assassination, when Heston was still a Democrat and people were killing his politicians. It was starting to look like shooting was becoming a part of the normal political process in America, and all sorts of folk were saying that gun ownership is fine but the nuts should not be allowed to own guns. What were his beliefs before the big 1960s assassinations?
posted by pracowity at 3:06 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

/falls down on his knees on a beach and shakes his fists in the air
posted by slimepuppy at 3:18 AM on April 6

.
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:42 AM on April 6

He put his vest on.

And he was a master masticator among scenery chewers. May you take your gun up to Heaven. I love me some Ten Commandments.
posted by louche mustachio at 3:58 AM on April 6

If there's anyone watching films three hundred years from now, they will, in fact, be watching some in which Charlton Heston starred. Offhand I can't think of a better depiction of a dystopian future on screen before 1968's Planet of the Apes, and none that synced quite so well with the events of the time. Firehoses? Fears of miscegnation? Denial of civil rights? Seeing these together with rocket ships and space travel was a head trip then and it's the root of many a socially conscious SF head trip now. Thanks for the memories, Mr. Heston.

.
posted by cupcakeninja at 4:14 AM on April 6

Strange how in his death, it seems Heston's best known role was in Bowling for Columbine.

I really think that's only true of this thread and/or a certain section of Mefites though. To the public at large, he's still better known for other stuff.

I remember being thrilled when he shows up in Branagh's Hamlet as the Player King. Absolutely perfect casting.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 4:36 AM on April 6

A bizarre bit of information, from a CH trivia page:

"Charlton was hired by the F.B.I during the April 1993 Waco stand-off with cult leader David Koresh, to play the voice of God while communicating with him. However the plan was never used."
posted by taz at 4:38 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

Soylent Green is made out of people.

Au contraire; Soylent Green is made out of Charlton Heston.

My favourite Heston movie line: So far, this is not blowing my skirt up, gentlemen.
posted by bwg at 4:42 AM on April 6

Meta. Absolutely disgusting, people.

When you link to Metatalk because your delicate sensibilities have been offended (what, in yet another fucking useless obit thread, some people were assholes and other people were offended by the lack of respect for the departed? Perish the very thought!), it's standard procedure not to link to Metatalk, but to open a thread in which the ritual grievances can be aired and actually link to that.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:43 AM on April 6

You need to read that comment again, Stav. And double check who posted it.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 4:46 AM on April 6

...it's standard procedure not to link to Metatalk, but to open a thread...

Guess he was just so disgusted that he just couldn't be bothered.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:46 AM on April 6

You need to read that comment again, Stav. And double check who posted it.

Preposterous! It's standard procedure to read each comment only once and then release one's zombie army upon the commentator or commentatoress as the case may be, while simultaneously infoming metatalk that a metatalk thread has not been opened via opening a metatalk thread referencing the non-opening issue as per standard procedure. You make me SICK Lentrohamsanin, you horrible Zombie-botherer!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 5:03 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

Heston was a B-movie actor

a few decades-old B-movies

when insulting people, it is wise not to come off as totally ignorant in the process
posted by pyramid termite at 5:15 AM on April 6 [6 favorites]

Charlton Heston is an axiom of the cinema.

Sorry, can't find the full text online. Worth a read, though: it's craziness.

Also: RIP, Chuckles. You were a better actor than most people realize.
posted by Dr. Wu at 5:20 AM on April 6

.
posted by aerotive at 5:21 AM on April 6

Oops.
posted by Dr. Wu at 5:22 AM on April 6

Mostly because it makes you look like a better person.

Which is awesome, because it shifts the standard of being a better person from what you do and believe to your adherence to a set of social conventions; it becomes more important to give the appearance of decency than to be decent.

The inability of some people to see the part of the Venn diagram where these things overlap is what makes Metafilter such a wacky place.
posted by Bookhouse at 5:29 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]

I'm personally torn about gun control. On the one hand, there are a whole lot of crazy fucks getting guns and turning them on society. On the other hand, there are like a billion guns in circulation and no laws passed are going to have much effect on that at this point. As a rational and reasonable person, if it would solve the problem of crazy or malicious people getting guns and blowing away innocents, I would gladly be willing to not own any myself (and I don't own any myself). But alas, I don't think anything is going to change things at this point, at least not for the better.

I would not call Heston's movies B-movies, at least not all of them. At least some are timeless classics that will be watched by future generations, probably forever. While I disagree with the man's politics, and was saddened by what he became later in life, many of his films will *easily* withstand the test of time.
posted by jamstigator at 5:31 AM on April 6

RIP Moses, you won't soon be forgotten.

(...but then again, neither will I soon forget LobsterMitten's oh so perceptive question: "well-boned" face?...)
posted by fairmettle at 5:42 AM on April 6

You're seriously contending that the Democratic and Republican parties have moved to the *left* since the sixties?

cytheria, in some senses that's exactly what happened. Despite an arguable "conservative" resurgence in the late 1980s-1990s, the country as a whole is to the left of where it was forty years ago. Abortion, while controversial, is enshrined in law. Homosexuality, while divisive, is an undeniable fact of the American landscape. Racism, while by no means disappeared, is a political unforgivable sin. Sexism hasn't gone anywhere either, but there are more women in college than men. Even the most "conservative" types can no longer get away with denying these things (except for abortion rights). So while the GOP may, for example, oppose homosexual marriage, the suggestion that homosexual activity should be banned is a non-starter on both sides of the aisle, and denying that the issue exists is completely impossible. The idea of rolling back sexual equality is laughable.

If anything, the current (though quite possibly receding) conservative renaissance is due to the fact that the zenith of 20th-century American liberalism, the Great Society, seems to have been a bad idea.
posted by valkyryn at 5:44 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

You make me SICK Lentrohamsanin, you horrible Zombie-botherer!

I'm sorry to hear you say that. I hope one day you can unharden your heart and open yourself to the wonderful mouldering shambling future that the universe wants for you (apart from the bits that have dropped off).
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 5:52 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

Wow. Back when I worked at a chain bookstore, we had a Heston in for a signing. I was supervisor during the event, and as you can imagine it was a mob scene. The event was your usual 'say-hello-shake-hands-get-signature-then-move-on' deal. One guy wouldn't move on. My manager went over to him: 'Sir you have to move on.' 'I'm here to see Mr. Heston!' 'And you did, now it's other people's turn.' 'My wife has cancer!' 'That's terrible, sir, but you still have to let other people through.' 'I'm gonna kick you in the nuts!' 'Then I'll call the cops!' No you won't!' My manager started dialing. The guy took off.

Later as things started to break up I spotted a trio of people waiting by the door that led to the loading dock. There was this woman with a terrible skin condition that made her look like her face was erupting, another woman with this spooky, paralyzed rictus of a smile, and a young man with three Planet Of The Apes videotapes under his arm and an 'I left the planet three days ago' look on his face.

'Can I help you people?' I asked. 'He's coming back?' they asked eagerly. 'I don't think so, but I can't have you loitering here. Let me go check.' I walked out to the loading dock and watched heston's limosuine pull away. 'He's gone.' I told them. 'Awww, he's gone,' they gasped in disappointment.

So after meeting some of Heston's fans, I fully understand his desire to arm himself.
posted by jonmc at 5:54 AM on April 6 [13 favorites]

that bit (especially the part afterwards, when Moore leaves the photograph on the doorstep for that extra guilt-tripping/tear-jerking effect) *is* what ultimately killed the film.

And turned me off Moore forever.

RIP MR. Heston. Hopefully you're riding into the sunset with that hottie Nova. Also the Obit I read failed to mention Soylent Green, And the Omega Man; Which I find odd since the recent release of I am Legend. Perhaps the obit was pre-written as so many are these days.
posted by Gungho at 5:56 AM on April 6

Abortion, while controversial, is enshrined in law. Homosexuality, while divisive, is an undeniable fact of the American landscape. Racism, while by no means disappeared, is a political unforgivable sin. Sexism hasn't gone anywhere either, but there are more women in college than men.

Other than abortion rights, none of these are really left/right issues, they are civil rights issues that (should) cut across party lines. I think what you're really talking about is that there's less obvious or socially acceptable bigotry today than there was 20, 40 or 60 years ago. Again, not so much a left/right divide. As for government activism to help the poor (the goals of the traditional left), that's pretty much gone.
posted by psmealey at 5:59 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]

He was actually 83. He would've been 84 in October.

He was in his 84th year so that's what goes on the death certificate, and in obits, etc.
posted by zarah at 6:12 AM on April 6

You need to read that comment again, Stav. And double check who posted it.

I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. If it's an amusing gag of some kind, it's too obscure and/or deadpan for me to figure out, at least.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:28 AM on April 6

I wonder if it'll be like this when Tom Cruise kicks.
posted by DenOfSizer at 6:33 AM on April 6

.

i shed that not for the dead piece of shit, but because there are those in this thread who cry for him.
posted by gman at 6:40 AM on April 6

If all these christians just happen to be right.......I sure hope there will be an internet connection for me in hell. I can't wait to read metafilter's thread on the demise of G.W. Bush
.
posted by notreally at 6:48 AM on April 6

Any chance we can skip the part of the thread where we start calling each other names?

On quick read, I thought this said, "any chance we can skip to the part of the thread where we start calling each other names," and I thought, may as well because those dots just become kind of monotonous anyway. Then I thought, well, we are already at the name-calling part and quickly degenerating to the part where people invoke meta (and some people, presumably wizened old timers or something, lecture on what the standard procedure for meta is).

It makes me wish that famous people did not have to die.
posted by Slap Factory at 6:51 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

If all these christians just happen to be right.......

..then somewhere Moses is taking heston aside and saying 'Dude, that was so not me....'
posted by jonmc at 6:51 AM on April 6

The thing that always annoyed me about Heston and the NRA is what scody mentioned. The NRA does *not* simply support gun ownership, but also a whole host of right wing insanity. I own guns, I like to shoot guns, I don't think guns should be outlawed, and I lothe the NRA with a passion because while I am a gun owner I'm not a right wing loon.

I also take exception to the entire raft of self denfese and "the 2nd Amendment protects the 1st" BS that Heston not only spewed but apparently genuinely believed.

Statistics show that gun ownership is a singularly ineffective form of self defense, that guns kept for that purpose are vastly more likely to be used in the accidental death of a family member than the deliberate death of a criminal, etc. As for guns being the last bulwark of freedom, the concept is so laughable that I'm stunned anyone takes it seriously. Me and my .22 rifle are going to mean exactly diddily against the US army, and it is the height of genuinely insane self agrandizement to believe otherwise.

All of which is significant becuase Heston was deeply involved in perpetuating the self defense lie, the "guns protect freedom" lie, and the entire batshit insane agenda of the NRA. Yes, he was also an actor, but his biggest impact on contemporary America was through his NRA activism. Maybe in 100 or 200 years it will be the acting that people most remember, but today its the guns, the lies, and the vicious right wing insanity.

I like guns because they are nifty from an engineering standpoint, and fun to shoot. I claim no other reason and look with a mixture of pity and scorn on those who delude themselves into thinking that there are other reasons. This is 2008, not 1776, there are no bears wandering in our back yards, and no hordes of righteously pissed indians seeking justifiable vengence on the European assholes who stole their land; if you are not in the military and think your gun has a function beyond entertainment you should seek professional help.
posted by sotonohito at 6:57 AM on April 6 [24 favorites]

Mercifully, he won't be remembered for his acting abilities.

Instead, he'll be remembered as an angry, selfish, paranoid man who was scared to death that those Damn Dirty Liberals might take his gun away. How dare they care more about the thousands of victims of gun violence than they do about him!
posted by Jatayu das at 6:58 AM on April 6

(dot)
posted by fixedgear at 7:06 AM on April 6

Me and my .22 rifle are going to mean exactly diddily against the US army

for the umpteenth time, when the u s army manages to win in iraq, you can start making that argument

the utter ignorance of the history and tactics of guerrilla warfare this statement shows is amazing - the fact is that civilian arms combined with sabotage and asset destruction would make the so called gun nuts of america formidable enemies

americans are better educated, better trained and have better resources than the iraqis do - if the army's having trouble with the iraqis, they'll have real trouble with americans
posted by pyramid termite at 7:14 AM on April 6 [9 favorites]

posted by grouse at 7:17 AM on April 6

pyramid termite Private ownership of civilian grade firearms will, at absolute best, make starting a guerrilla insurgency easier, it is hardly a critical factor. The most successful of guerrilla movements, Mao's, actually started virtually unarmed. One of the primary ingredients in a guerrilla movemnt is getting guns and ammo from the outside or stealing them from the occupying force.

A large percentage of the weaponry used against the US forces in Iraq comes from former Iraqi Army supply dumps that were (due to criminal neglance and incompetence on the part of Bush) not secured by US forces. I don't have statistics, but I'd be stunned if even 10% of the material used by the Iraqi insurgency came from private citizens. Warlords maybe, but just Joe Iraqi with a gun? Not a chance.
posted by sotonohito at 7:26 AM on April 6

Heston was a B-movie actor...

Crazy talk.
posted by Scoo at 7:29 AM on April 6

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posted by wrapper at 7:41 AM on April 6

One of the primary ingredients in a guerrilla movemnt is getting guns and ammo from the outside or stealing them from the occupying force.

that's right - and doing so is much easier when you've got some decent weapons to begin with

another thing -

This is 2008, not 1776, there are no bears wandering in our back yards

there are if you live in northern michigan
posted by pyramid termite at 7:41 AM on April 6

Also the Obit I read failed to mention Soylent Green, And the Omega Man;

Completely bizarre especially given the resurgence of science fiction in film and TV over the past 10 years. I'd argue that you can't speak knowledgeably about science fiction movies until you've seen Heston's Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, and The Omega Man. Heston was the actor that Arnold Schwarzenegger can only, in his dreams, desperately wish that he was.

The equivalent today would be like giving Martin Sheen or Jack Nicholson a leading role as an sci-fi/action start and having them end up being pivotal examples of the genre.

Legendary actor, civil rights leader and political activist Charlton Heston passed away today, at the age of 84. He died at his home with Lydia, his wife of 64 years, at his side

Really, what more do you want, after that?

americans are better educated, better trained and have better resources than the iraqis do - if the army's having trouble with the iraqis, they'll have real trouble with americans

On the other hand, the situation in Iraq before the fall of Saddam Hussein seems to argue against the "widespread gun ownership will allow the people to rebel against an oppressive government" and the current situation certainly disproves the "an armed society is a polite society" maxim. As far as Charlton Heston's role in promoting all of that? Who cares? When you've 75+ years old, you can crankily rant about whatever you want.
posted by deanc at 7:43 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

On the other hand, the situation in Iraq before the fall of Saddam Hussein seems to argue against the "widespread gun ownership will allow the people to rebel against an oppressive government"

i wonder what the kurds think about that

fact - even after extreme measures, including genocide, saddam was not able to completely suppress the kurdish rebels
posted by pyramid termite at 8:02 AM on April 6

Even Michael Moore seems to mourn his passing. Check out his website.
posted by e40 at 8:16 AM on April 6

Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, & Charlton Heston at the March on Washington.

A large percentage of the weaponry used against the US forces in Iraq comes from former Iraqi Army supply dumps

And a large percentage of the insurgents are former Iraqi soldiers that we fired after conquering their country.

i wonder what the kurds think about that

"Good thing there were no-fly zones," maybe? Saddam used helicopter gunships to suppress the 1991 uprisings that took over most of the cities in Iraq.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:23 AM on April 6

Well, obviously I don't know. I can tell you this though: I've always been a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, because I support the Constitution as an indivisible document, despite an emotional aversion to guns. In the last seven years, that emotional aversion has been eroded by an increasing awareness that guns -- force -- may be the last bulwark of freedom.
posted by orthogonality at 3:15 AM on April 6 [1 favorite +] [!]

Well, that depends on that sticky little opening line about a militia. And while I don't have a gun, I'm not out and out opposed to having them. I AM opposed to the jerks at the NRA who think there shouldn't be any test, any check, on people before people can buy them. There are 30 or so people at Virginia Tech who'd be alive if proper care were taken. The NRA is seriously fucked up, seeming to get worse by the year.

None of which has to do directly with Charlton Heston, whose work I respected. As to what happened to him--the late 1960s happened. He went conservative.
posted by etaoin at 8:24 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

FUck this "don't speak ill of the dead" crap because "they can't respond." They don't need to; their supporters are apparently still alive.

If I can't speak ill of the dead, then how can I give any opinion of Adolf Hitler? He's dead, right?
posted by grubi at 8:26 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

then how can I give any opinion of Adolf Hitler?

By making a run to the store and picking up some Perspective. You seem to be out.
posted by Cyrano at 8:30 AM on April 6 [6 favorites]

"Good thing there were no-fly zones," maybe?

you didn't read the link i provided did you? if you had, you'd have realized that he'd been trying and failing to suppress kurdish rebels for years before the no-fly zone

but to hell with this - here, watch a chariot race
posted by pyramid termite at 8:36 AM on April 6

.
posted by josher71 at 8:36 AM on April 6

The American tv snippets I had seen over the years of Mr. Heston without having sat through The Ten commandments or probably any of his other movies left me thinking he was quite a nut. Then I watched The Omega Man over this winter by chance, late one night, and I really liked it. I don't seem to require the people who entertain me to have the exact same opinions and beliefs that I do. That would be weird (and boring!).
posted by BridgetR at 8:53 AM on April 6

Of course, that bit (especially the part afterwards, when Moore leaves the photograph on the doorstep for that extra guilt-tripping/tear-jerking effect) *is* what ultimately killed the film.

Turnabout is fair play, if they can get people to cry about guns, then others can cry about children who were shot. I'm a fan of his Heston's charm and talent, but I know not to confuse the personal life of an artist with their work, and that goes both ways. Heston lobbied against city councils in urban areas by romanticizing cheap handguns to be sold without hindrance during crime and drug epidemics. It would be justified to label this as a genocidal tendency, and it was worsened by what their other hand was doing. During Heston's presidency, the NRA became a political haven for neo-nazi's and was a much needed legitimate shadow for the disappearing KKK and all violent anti-government militias to lurk in. The NRA and supporters promoted an aggressive prison building program and lobbied for mandatory sentencing to distract the issue from guns. Sadly, and much worse for the NRA, is that during Heston's presidency, a traditional sporting organization became anti-sportsman, and without hesitation it seems, they used hunting and hunter safety to camouflage the promotion and organizing of those who collected automatic weapons and who never hiked a day in their life. Rather, they spent their free time and money shooting rapid fire at human targets and praising the NRA on bumpers. Instead of lobbying for wildlife conservation domestically as the sportsmen were doing, they lobbied for the importation of cheap communist made assault rifles. That's Heston's legacy. I wouldn't even spend too much time blaming the guy, the big donors obviously knew they needed the ideal man film star to get away with so much.

.
posted by Brian B. at 8:54 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]

The Agony and the Ecstasy of his passing has left me speechless.
posted by Sailormom at 8:57 AM on April 6

Charlton Heston's obituary thread on metafiler
Godwinned by grubi.
This is why we can't have nice things, children.
posted by lothar at 9:11 AM on April 6

As far as I can remember, Heston checked into an alcohol rehab clinic shortly after the "Bowling for Columbine" release. Presumably, his Alzheimer's was also quite developed by then. This was a man with seriously impaired judgement, who clearly was installed as figurehead "president" of the NRA in a PR move. A very, very sick man, in the most literal sense, as it was plainly to be seen in that infamous interview.

So, I will withhold my venom from the man who, when in his full possession of his mental faculties, had an impressive acting career as well as supporting civil rights, and direct it to the cynical merchants of death who so clearly took advantage of his sickness later on...

RIP, Mr. Heston.

.
posted by Skeptic at 9:11 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

So long, Cheston.

.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 9:17 AM on April 6

.

Guess he's not the Omega man after all.
posted by pedmands at 9:21 AM on April 6

explain to me why people pretend to say nice things about someone who was widely despised yesterday.

Aside from earlier offered explanations how internet gives opportunity to dance/spit on the deceased's grave, I challenge the "widely" part of your assertion. Chalk it up to the media's spin on polarized issues like gun control for coloring perception of C.H. as universally "despised." Enough remembrances of his screen presence here testify to a legacy, perhaps compromised, but not outdone, by C.H.'s alliance with NRA.

why is it when someone I didn't know personally and couldn't stand
I'd save my vitriol for those whom I do know personally and can't stand,
but I'm too chickensh!t to confront them so I save it for strangers whom it's easier and safer to malign than my immediate, real-life nemeses.

Mercifully, he won't be remembered for his acting abilities.

Too many americans' memories are imprinted with what was seen on screen, even above the actor's non-celebrity accomplishments. James Stewart had a postage stamp commemorating, according to its mini-statement, all his best-known movies yet no mention of his military service including reaching brigadier-general rank.

Many people, Heston included, are way more complex than the two-dimensional personas projected on screen, edited-to-taste by documentarians and solidified in public perception. Thus, while I disagree with his gun control views and even some of those actions, I respect his passion for his beliefs throughout his career, and can celebrate the mark he left on american cinema.
posted by skyper at 9:27 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

.

Fuck that guy, seriously.
posted by Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon, always taking the high road.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 9:53 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

Chuck seemed to love having stuff around his neck.
posted by stargell at 10:01 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

I think it's ridiculous that some say he was a sub par actor in B-movies. If those were B-movies, show me the A-movies? And seriously, there was some great cinema in that rough face and booming voice. Charlton Heston was and is great to watch, and for those who mock his acting, I think you need to take out your blockbuster card and watch Ben Hur, The Omega Man, Soylent Green, Planet of the Apes, and a hell of lot of films I can't remember right now.

So, let's put that bugbear to rest.

Why don't we speak ill of the dead? Part of it is tradition and a good tradition it is. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't criticize nor discuss the effects of their life in summation, but we should insult nor slander the dead. There is something profoundly humbling about someone dying, and in recognition of that humility, we affirm a positive brotherhood with all souls living and dead. We respect the dead because we realize that ultimately they are human like we are, and are one step further on the journey that we are all set upon. Because in the end, no quip or epithet is worth it.

.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 10:06 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]

I have nothing bad to say about Heston but do note that when someone dies who may be very disliked by some people, the convention is that no evil be said of the dead person. After time has passed, it is permissible as an "assessment." One take: the dead person unable to defend himself. But then biographers etc seem not to worry about this ...just an odd thing worth noting, I think.
posted by Postroad at 10:08 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

I'd rather go to hell with Heston than heaven with M. Moore. Actually I can't think of anything, including sex, a beer, space travel, bowling, dying, that I hadn't rather do with Heston than Moore.
That said, if Moore proceeds me in death, I'll not shit on his grave.
posted by dawson at 10:09 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

being a worse actor than Bill Shatner in some shitty sci-fi movies is clearly justification enough to look past the morally heinous act of collecting a few hundred shrill gun nuts together, in order to harass the grieving parents of murdered children to make a point.

Um, everyone's a worse actor than Shatner. Shatner is the epitome of acting, the acme to which all lesser actors aspire. I personally rank Heston at 8.75 Shatners, which is pretty damn good. Olivier was only 9.1 Shatners.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:18 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

including sex, a beer, space travel, bowling, dying, that I hadn't rather do with Heston than Moore.

Dawson, isn't it slightly ironic that Moore would likely chat with you over beers while bowling if you were dying, while Heston would have never considered it?
posted by Brian B. at 10:24 AM on April 6

This is an ugly thread. The hate is baffling to me, honestly. Heston didn't advocate shooting people; he advocated gun ownership, which many read as the same thing, but which I think he did not. Mostly because no one advocates mass murder via firearm or any other means, with a few charming exceptions. What we're talking about here is a difference of opinion -- Heston and people like him think that gun ownership makes us safer, and while there are a million and one holes in that argument, I don't think it's fair to take him to task for what you see as the consequences of that opinion when in truth he is not ultimately responsible for how that opinion, enacted as public policy, plays out in the real world. Put a less convoluted way, it is not Charlton Heston's fault that there are guns, or that people have access to them, and certainly not that they use them in the commission of crimes, etc. One side says that we'd all be better off if no one had them. Another side says we'd all be better off if we all had equal means to protect ourselves from others who do have them, and will have them no matter what. Is there an evil side here? I don't see it. One side or the other may be misguided -- one side may be wrong -- which is fuel for debate, for argument. But I don't think either side is advocating a position that is inherently bad. They want the same thing -- safety -- but are very very divided on how to go about getting it. Why is it necessary to godwin the person who disagrees with you?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:26 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]

Just as I would have not defended someone who argued in favor of preserving the Constitution's provision stating that a black should count as three/fifths of a citizen; so, too, shall I choose not to defend or respect a man who devoted a significant portion of his life to ensuring that humans have the easiest and most convenient means of killing one another.

the irony being that the reason we no longer have a constitution that counts blacks as 3/5ths of a citizen is because a bunch of humans used the easiest and most convenient means of killing one another to force that change
posted by pyramid termite at 10:28 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]

Dawson, isn't it slightly ironic that Moore would likely chat with you over beers while bowling if you were dying, while Heston would have never considered it?

no, heston would probably be calling 911 if i was dying - i'm sure i'd find that more helpful than drinking beer and bowling
posted by pyramid termite at 10:31 AM on April 6

no, heston would probably be calling 911 if i was dying - i'm sure i'd find that more helpful than drinking beer and bowling

Heston would call 911 if you showed up at his front gate.
posted by Brian B. at 10:38 AM on April 6

I guess there's plenty of people out there and in here that would tapdance on Heston's grave ..some would even take some lessons, but I figure him laughing with his rather charming smile , if an afterlife exists, thinking that he led an hell of a life. I guess he'd say "tapdance if you so like, I don't care" as that'd be in character.

But do the abovesaid tapdancers hate Heston or what he represented ? I think neither, I guess they are still mad at NRA for being apparently so very effective at promoting possession of gun as a statemet of supporting constitutional rights ; expecially one right they found particularly useful and screw the others, but that's a detail that wasn't that much promoted.

I don't think it is possible to blame actors for selling their own face and acting, even if we don't like the script. Yet I guess there's a difference in acting all goofy and celebritiful pushing Nespresso as if it was cocaine , and acting so to convince that any law implementing a constitutional right must be seen an attempt to render that right useless. This isn't run of the mill advertisement, the actor can't just pretend to be product agnostic and be credible.

Yet I bet some would dismiss this as nonsense, because in some utterly simplistic mind selling a car or selling a gun, it's the same shit. And it may be technically so, but there are very different consequences ; one thing is to make you envious of the Jones, another is to suggest you the Jones are out to take your rights away from you.

Today is one of these , for me, rare moments in which I wished I was sure God existed, so I'd pray him to smack the goddamn 10 commandment tables on some recently passed son of a bitch who knew the shit he was playing, indeed quite an actor.
posted by elpapacito at 10:39 AM on April 6

Heston would call 911 if you showed up at his front gate.

and if you showed up at his front gate, he'd set a mousetrap
posted by pyramid termite at

Charlton Heston dead at 84 April 5, 2008 9:51 PM Subscribe

Charlton Heston dead at 84
April 5, 2008 9:51 PM Subscribe