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Deep in the shade
May 5, 2008 2:00 AM   Subscribe

The Ergenekon Affair: - The Killer Elite that fuels unrest in Turkey. On 22 January, Turkish police arrested 33 individuals, some connected with the military, in the largest concerted action against the "deep state" , which is heavily involved in Corporate Crime. This might resonate with some US observers.
posted by adamvasco (8 comments total) 9 users marked this as a favorite

 
You can see little sparks of enlightenment going off in the 3 Quarks article. The U.S. Government at the Bush level is not "political," not ideological, not "conservative" or Republican, but criminal. To oppose them as if they were "conservatives" is useless. Conservatives are as baffled by the Bush administration as anyone. Persons who have actual political principles are driven to distraction by the Bush administration because he represents apolitical interests -- the "deep government," which is not a government at all. He is not politically responsive (by "he," of course, I don't mean him as a person. He's exactly what he appears to be: a not particularly bright front man.) The deep government is not about liberalism or conservativism. It's non-ideological. It's about itself. Whomever is elected our next president, I'm sure it will be the deep government who wins.
posted by Faze at 4:24 AM on May 5, 2008 [3 favorites]


The deep government is not about liberalism or conservativism. It's non-ideological. It's about itself.

If asked to name a political ideology that is self-centered and often involved in defending/enabling corporate action against the public, which one do you think people would more often name, liberalism or conservatism?
posted by DU at 4:53 AM on May 5, 2008


If asked to name a political ideology that is self-centered and often involved in defending/enabling corporate action against the public, which one do you think people would more often name, liberalism or conservatism?

That's completely irrelevant and misses the point. If that's what you're thinking about, the guys pulling the strings win. Faze is right.
posted by languagehat at 5:50 AM on May 5, 2008 [1 favorite]


Also, good post!
posted by languagehat at 5:59 AM on May 5, 2008


Ahem. Well not to deny the possibility of an American deep state, however I think DU is making an Occam's razor style argument that one needn't posit the influence of a deep state when one has conservatives in office.

A corollary might be that a reasonably liberal government that opposed corporate power and was more focused on the general welfare might help expose the outlines of a deep state if it exists, whereas a conservative government would serve to obscure it.
posted by Reverend John at 6:03 AM on May 5, 2008 [1 favorite]


And I'm making an Occam's razor style argument that DU is simply expressing the default MeFi assumption that conservatives = EEEVIL; on GOP-leaning sites you'd have gotten equivalent knee-jerk equations of Dems with deep state back when Clinton was in office and the Dems were riding high. And I'm saying that those knee-jerk reactions don't help us figure out what's really going on.
posted by languagehat at 6:22 AM on May 5, 2008 [1 favorite]


Actually, I'm making neither argument. I'm asking what the difference is between a cabal of corporatists running the country and "real" conservatives doing so. They have the same agenda and ethos. Robber barons on top and anything goes as long as your stated purpose is "profit".
posted by DU at 6:32 AM on May 5, 2008


If asked to name a political ideology that is self-centered and often involved in defending/enabling corporate action against the public, which one do you think people would more often name, liberalism or conservatism?

I would name the system where both sides of the accepted political discourse squabble for power a bit but are in general one side united against the people. We don't have real liberals or real conservatives in our government.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 6:58 AM on May 5, 2008 [1 favorite]


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