Because there are more important things to do on Friday night
September 24, 2008 12:25 PM   Subscribe

McCain calls time! John McCain has asked that the first presidential debate be postponed and he will suspend his campaign so he can focus on the economy. No response from Obama yet. But it may be due to his approval rating, The latest FOX News/Opinion Dynamics poll shows Obama has taken a 45-39 percent lead.
posted by parmanparman (1584 comments total) 67 users marked this as a favorite

Slimy bastard. It's a good trick, except that everyone knows he's desperate.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:26 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Why not change the topic of the debate to the economic crisis?

This is lame.
posted by nitsuj at 12:27 PM on September 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


Has he asked the New York Times to stop reporting on him for the duration as well?
posted by Artw at 12:27 PM on September 24, 2008 [19 favorites]


Why not change the topic of the debate to the economic crisis?

Heh. That would be a funny one.
posted by Artw at 12:28 PM on September 24, 2008


Allow me to paste my well-reasoned response from the past McCain thread:

FUCKING NUTS
posted by Bookhouse at 12:28 PM on September 24, 2008


I dont get this at all. Yeah focus on the economy great, but won't this make him look weak-unprepared-like he's scrambling (not that Im about to shed a tear).
posted by rosswald at 12:28 PM on September 24, 2008


We all know single polls are super duper reliable for showing trends!
posted by smackfu at 12:28 PM on September 24, 2008


Might this have more to do with his campaign's admission that McCain has not done much to prepare for the debates?
posted by Nattie at 12:29 PM on September 24, 2008


To the GOP, less is more. And they've already won the VP debate if you look at the rules they've pushed through.
posted by Zambrano at 12:29 PM on September 24, 2008


Obama should just debate an empty podium, pausing often to talk about how punctuality is one of the most important Presidential qualities.
posted by jon_kill at 12:29 PM on September 24, 2008 [94 favorites]


A desperate ploy.
"McCain advisers said they are also reaching out to the Obama campaign to discuss pulling political television advertisements.

Advisers also say that McCain still wants to participate in all three presidential debates, but that the schedule is up in the air."*
posted by ericb at 12:29 PM on September 24, 2008


Makes me think of the scene in Blazing Saddles when the Governor says "We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Harumph!"
posted by peeedro at 12:29 PM on September 24, 2008 [15 favorites]


With luck, Obama will come back with "I understand that McCain doesn't feel up to it, but I have the vigor and energy to help work on our economy during the day and to fly to a rally in Shelbyville at night."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:30 PM on September 24, 2008 [36 favorites]


Fuck. 20+ years in the Senate and today is the day he decides to give a damn.
posted by clearly at 12:30 PM on September 24, 2008 [50 favorites]


I can only imagine the ways McCain will be able to fix our economy in the two hours he will now have to focus on it since the debates won't happen. THANK GOD WE'RE IN THE CLEAR NOW!
posted by nitsuj at 12:30 PM on September 24, 2008 [18 favorites]


Why not change the topic of the debate to the economic crisis Great idea!! Cmon Obama - suggest it!!!
posted by mildred-pitt at 12:31 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Finally, our problems have been solved!
posted by mattbucher at 12:31 PM on September 24, 2008


Wha? I don't get this stunt at all. Is he hoping to accuse Obama of putting his campaign over the economy?
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:31 PM on September 24, 2008


DESTROY HIM!!!! I'm serious. DESTROY HIM DESTROY HIM DESTROY HIM!!! Really though. I would very much like to see him destroyed (politically).
posted by Mister_A at 12:31 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


Phew! Those lazy talking point speeches he gives in super-safe red states must be taking a toll!
posted by damn dirty ape at 12:32 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Obama should agree to temporarily suspend his campaign, and replace the foreign policy debate with one about national economic policy.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:32 PM on September 24, 2008


According to this WSJ article:

"At 8:30 this morning, Senator Obama called Senator McCain to ask him if he would join in issuing a joint statement outlining their shared principles and conditions for the Treasury proposal and urging Congress and the White House to act in a bipartisan manner to pass such a proposal," Mr. Burton said in an email to reporters. "At 2:30 this afternoon, Senator McCain returned Senator Obama's call and agreed to join him in issuing such a statement. The two campaigns are currently working together on the details."
posted by mullacc at 12:33 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


Hey, if he wants to focus on the economy, maybe he could, I don't know, fire his lobbyist, money-accepting, part-of-the-problem campaign manager?
posted by mothershock at 12:33 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


I was all set to debate, but like, my printer's been acting weird, so like, I couldn't print out my debate cards? And then something with the economy happened? And then like, my roommate asked me to help him with his econ work? 'Cause like, he's really worried? It would just help me a lot if I could have like one more day to work on this.
posted by Greg Nog at 12:34 PM on September 24, 2008 [134 favorites]


I'm voting for Obama and I think that rescheduling the Obama/McCain debate is an EXCELLENT idea.

Let's switch it to Biden and Palin this Friday night. McCain and Obama can keep the foreign policy debate first and the economy debate last, but move all of their debates til later.

Biden's ready to debate. And it sounds like Sarah "I'm ready for the VP job" Palin must be as well.

Yes?
posted by jeanmari at 12:34 PM on September 24, 2008 [36 favorites]


What.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:34 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


Might this have more to do with his campaign's admission that McCain has not done much to prepare for the debates?

That's what I'm thinking. Couldn't he have just prayed for a snow day?
posted by bondcliff at 12:35 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


It's a clever roll of the dice to resuscitate the "Ooh McCain's a mavericky maverick" meme from earlier in the campaign season when the press were still head over heels in love with McCain and his Straight Talk.

I love it when McCain walks into the Vegas casino, clicks his $500 Ferragamo loafers, and says, "Luck, be a lady tonight."
posted by blucevalo at 12:36 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


It's not about debate prep or working on the economy. McCain wants to hide for a few more days.

He doesn't want to be the one standing in front of the bright lights at the foreign policy debate when the moderator goes, "Well, our economy plays a role in foreign policy. So ... Senator McCain ... the economy ... wtf?"
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:36 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Let's switch it to Biden and Palin this Friday night.

Aww, yeah.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:37 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


McCain can't handle a debate. Palin can't handle a press conference. Let's just cancel the election and put these guys in charge of the free world already.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:37 PM on September 24, 2008 [64 favorites]


No, no, no.

I think Obama should take the tact that this is a serious issue, but the response is not to freak out, suspend his campaign and run for cover. The response is to have a plan, approach it with confidence - which will fill the voting public with confidence - and to stay on course, which is exactly what he's doing.

Whatever.
posted by kbanas at 12:37 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


nitsuj: "Why not change the topic of the debate to the economic crisis?"

Both Obama and McCain think that having the domestic policy debate last is in their best interest.
posted by Plutor at 12:37 PM on September 24, 2008


He's been bitching for months about Obama not meeting with him, and now he wants to postpone the debate? Obama should show up and debate either an empty chair or a Grampa Simpson cardboard cutout.

This is essentially an admission from McCain that he can't multitask in a crisis.

Might this have more to do with his campaign's admission that McCain has not done much to prepare for the debates?

You mean, besides naps?

Why not change the topic of the debate to the economic crisis?

Or change the location to DC.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:38 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


dude's got like 17 houses and 30 cars. Economy tanking has got to hurt him bad. Way more important than some debate.
posted by bonaldi at 12:38 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


What I said about this elsewhere: I have a not-very-sneaky suspicion that this is the McCain campaign's way of going "See? This issue is so important, and our guy is so responsible, that he will stop this foolish running for president and Get Down To Business. And that other guy? He's still running for president! He doesn't care about you at all! He's totally irresponsible!"
posted by rtha at 12:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


Well, at least now Canadians don’t have to decide between national election debates.
posted by KS at 12:39 PM on September 24, 2008


The latest FOX News/Opinion Dynamics poll shows Obama has taken a 45-39 percent lead.

Not to mention the new Washington Post/ABC poll: Obama now leads McCain by 52 percent to 43 percent.
posted by ericb at 12:39 PM on September 24, 2008


"Let's switch it to Biden and Palin this Friday night."

posted by jeanmari at 3:34 PM on September 24 [+] [!]

That would be an awesome counter.
posted by rosswald at 12:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


These people are clowns.
posted by dirtdirt at 12:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [10 favorites]


Seriously, though. This is the primary equivalent of McCain taking office and kicking the bucket and Palin having to step up to the plate.

So, let's have Palin step up to the plate. In this Friday's format. On this Friday's topic. Against Joe Biden.

I mean, she spent, what, 2-3 hours at the UN already. She's prepped and ready to go!
posted by jeanmari at 12:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


If this were a post about McCain shuttering his campaign for good, it'd be interesting, but I can't believe every move by the campaigns can be 'the best of the web'.
posted by nightwood at 12:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Is he hoping to accuse Obama of putting his campaign over the economy?

If so, Obama's response ought to be "I'm capable of handling the financial meltdown and debates at the same time. A President doesn't always have the luxury of dealing with one issue at a time."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [42 favorites]


The Obama campaign said Obama had called McCain around 8:30 a.m. Wednesday to propose that they issue a joint statement in support of a package to help fix the economy as soon as possible. McCain called back six hours later and agreed to the idea of the statement, the Obama campaign said. McCain's statement was issued to the media a few minutes later. link.

Obama: "Yeah, John. This is some serious stuff. We should issue a joint press conference and say something like 'We must act as Americans, not as Democrats or Republicans, and we must resolve this crisis before the markets open on Monday' What do you say?"

McCain: "Sounds good. You get to work on the wording and send it over."

*jumps on stage*

"My friends. We must meet as Americans, not as Democrats or Republicans, and we must meet until this crisis is resolved. I am confident that before the markets open on Monday we can achieve consensus on legislation that will stabilize our financial markets, protect taxpayers and homeowners, and earn the confidence of the American people. All we must do to achieve this is temporarily set politics aside, and I am committed to doing so."

Obama: DICK!
posted by ND¢ at 12:40 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


This is insane. His whole campaign is running from the American people. One debate on a Friday night between two senators is not going to make economy fall down go boom.
posted by cashman at 12:40 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


You liberals have to remember, there was a time when McCain didn't have an opportunity to participate in a nationally televised US Presidential Debate on Foreign Policy, for FIVE YEARS... IN PRISON
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:40 PM on September 24, 2008 [59 favorites]


This is how we want our leaders to be, prone to publicity stunts and fleeing from an interrogation of the job they are applying for?

Ridiculous.
posted by iamabot at 12:40 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


He says it needs to be put off in order for him to "focus on the financial crisis,"

Translation: He lost his wallet or lost money on the market this week.
posted by nickyskye at 12:40 PM on September 24, 2008


Holy Shit. Is this unprecedented?

That motherfucker knows he is finished, unless his goon squad can control the media.

This is just one part of it. Meanwhile, he'll attack the New York Times, give an interview with Chris Wallace, and spread 100 more lies about Obama.

And if you're really, really quiet, you can almost hear the goose steps, somewhere in the distance.
posted by plexi at 12:41 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


This means that McCain has effectively killed one debate. His camp will never allow it to be "rescheduled," citing the lack of time dilemma that they've just created.
posted by william_boot at 12:41 PM on September 24, 2008


What.

Exactly.

I'm unconvinced the President has that much control over the economy, but I'm sure the Presidential candidates don't. Yes, I understand they're 3/4ths legislators.

McCain has to know this makes him look weak (anathema for Republicans, I thought) and has to have decided that's a better outcome than the inevitable Bush-Gramm connections that will be drawn. And Obama doesn't even have to draw them, the moderator(s) will take care of that.

We have dinner/debate plans on Friday night with friends we haven't seen in a couple years. He'd better not screw that up.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 12:41 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


My view is he is going to go do the job he was elected to do.

This is an opportunity for both candidates to prove they care more about the nation than themselves. I personally think both will step up to the plate.
posted by konolia at 12:41 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


What Obama should say: "Well, we're really sorry that our opponent is unable to walk and chew gum a the same time..."
posted by notsnot at 12:41 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


Furthermore, the motherfucking debates are for the American people, you fucking creaking octogenarian.

Fuck you and get on stage.
posted by plexi at 12:42 PM on September 24, 2008 [30 favorites]


PS if this was reversed you'd all be saying Obama was being a statesman.

And I would be agreeing with you.
posted by konolia at 12:42 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Couldn't he have just prayed for a snow day?

I think you mean "hurricane day".
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 12:43 PM on September 24, 2008


surely this.....wait that is a shrub meme.
posted by HyperBlue at 12:43 PM on September 24, 2008


This is a subject changer, but not from the polls -- from Rick Davis.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:43 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


This is an opportunity for both candidates to prove they care more about the nation than themselves. I personally think both will step up to the plate.

You... show up in these threads just to say ridiculous things, don't you?
posted by kbanas at 12:43 PM on September 24, 2008 [55 favorites]


Looks like John "I missed more senate votes than any other senator--even that one guy recovering from a brain hemorrhage" McCain has discovered a new passion for passing legislation now that people are over Palin and his poll numbers are tanking.
posted by turaho at 12:44 PM on September 24, 2008 [8 favorites]


He'd rather lose an election than have to talk about the issues - wait, no, er, he'd rather lose an election than think about the economy. Um, he'd rather lose an election than debate Obama? He'd rather lose the election and claim it's because he was too mavericky to play political games than lose the election because he's incompetent?

Help me out here, McCain, your new slogan ain't so catchy.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:44 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I cannot wait to see the attempts by right-wing pundits to twist this into a good idea.

Actually it makes my bones tired to think about it.
posted by the bricabrac man at 12:45 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


The dog ate my debate. :'(
posted by nitsuj at 12:45 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


Nov. 5, 2008. McCain calls for a "do-over."
posted by ColdChef at 12:46 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


I've been sick in bed today and I've been having these fever dreams that every time I go online or turn on the TV there's some bizzaro-world news from the political front.

Wait, what do you mean my temperature is only 98.6?
posted by Biblio at 12:46 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


yo, this is the Foreign Policy Debate, which McCain wanted to have first 'cuz it's his STRENGTH. Not rescheduling it would be at his peril, politically.

Oh, and the suggestion that this debate be replaced by Biden/Palin? Sheer, unadulterated GENIUS!
posted by fingers_of_fire at 12:47 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Yes . . .

Well, Senator McCain and I agree that as senators and candidates we need to be in Washington DC to work on the ransom, er, I mean, bailout, plan.

We each chose a running mate who would be able to step in for us at a moment's notice and carry on in our place. So let's have Joe and Sarah debate on Friday about the economy while we put on a nice show of bipartisan unity in Washington.

What's that you say? She's not ready to go this week?
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:47 PM on September 24, 2008 [15 favorites]


Let's be honest. McCain is really, really hurting. Palin was a bust, all air and no heat. He's got nothing and people are waking up to that. Obama's got more money, and is better positioned. McCain is forced to run against his own congressional candidates because they are not for more regulation.

Frankly, this country jolted to the left, or maybe the movement became apparent yesterday when GOP house members handed Cheney his ass when the big man came to the Hill to rally the troops.

The facts are as follows: Obama called McCain at 8:30 this morning suggesting that they work together. At 2PM McCain indicated he was suspending campaigning and then at 2:30 he returned the call saying he would work together. Frankly, I expected Obama to offer this at the debates--it stops the GOP from running against the bailout--which is DOA in its current form. Obama's doing the right thing and McCain is agreeing to it.

they say that the new president starts governing before the election even ends. We're pulling out of Iraq on Obama's time table, not McCain's 100 year plan and now Obama's leading the charge on the bailout.

Just so we all know, Obama came up 9 in Washington Post polling today and up 7 in Fox News polling. McCain is taking a real, real beating on this. Poll internals show people trust Obama on the economy by very wide margins, double-digits.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:48 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


"PS if this was reversed you'd all be saying Obama was being a statesman."

And I would be agreeing with you.
posted by konolia at 3:42 PM on September 24 [+] [!]

If Obama did this I would be saying he just lost the election. And I'd be right.
posted by rosswald at 12:48 PM on September 24, 2008 [53 favorites]


Konolia wrote:

My view is he is going to go do the job he was elected to do.

This is an opportunity for both candidates to prove they care more about the nation than themselves. I personally think both will step up to the plate.


Oh, so they aren't running for President to help the nation, just themselves?
posted by tittergrrl at 12:49 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


In semi-related news, The National Enquirer's headline today: SARAH PALIN LOVER REVEALED
posted by clearly at 12:49 PM on September 24, 2008


McCain got the results back from his Study the Economy Commission -- apparently the fundamentals are not, in fact, strong.
posted by spiderwire at 12:49 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


I don't like the idea of Biden debating Palin this Friday because I want Biden in Washington. I never thought much of him and never really paid much attention to him until today's speech where he intelligently and systematically laid out why McCain has made and will continue to make poor foreign policy decisions over the years. It was just absolutely inspiring to see someone with such a grasp of foreign affairs and the keen intelligence to analyze it all. As much as I think Hillary Clinton would have made a more compelling candidate, it was also the first time I've been really enthusiastic about Obama's choice.

I've been watching MSNBC all afternoon and my heart jumps and sinks whenever Norah O'Donnell says: "John McCain has announced he will suspend his campaign [heart jumps] starting tomorrow to work on the budget crisis in Washington [heart sinks]."
posted by MegoSteve at 12:50 PM on September 24, 2008


Re: "doing the job he was elected to do"; the most recent job he and Obama were given was to run for fucking president - remember those conventions we had not too long ago? A big part of doing that is to present your positions to the voting public, and to debate your opponents on theirs.
posted by yhbc at 12:50 PM on September 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


This is an opportunity for both candidates to prove they care more about the nation than themselves.

The whole point of running for President is that you really do believe that your sitting in the White House is the most important thing you can do to help the country, because you care about it. That's not to say it actually works like that, but saying "oh, running for President is selfish" ignores the entire point of public service.
posted by Tomorrowful at 12:51 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


PS if this was reversed you'd all be saying Obama was being a statesman.

And I would be agreeing with you.


No you wouldn't, not if it was obvious that Obama was backing out of the debate under the cover of "statesmanship" because he was down in the polls, getting rocked hourly by new stories in the media about his lies and gaffes, and facing the eventual revelation that his VP pick was an empty pantsuit.

Besides, the situation is not reversed. Presumably, you think Obama quite the statesman for having *first* contacted McCain about issuing a joint bipartisan statement on the bailout.

But I bet you think that was some kind of trick.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:51 PM on September 24, 2008 [11 favorites]


Besides, the situation is not reversed. Presumably, you think Obama quite the statesman for having *first* contacted McCain about issuing a joint bipartisan statement on the bailout.

I think it was the right thing for him to do. No trick.
posted by konolia at 12:52 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


A couple of days ago:

God Himself couldn't have given rank-and-file Republicans a better opportunity to create political space between themselves and the Administration. That's why I want to see 40 Republican No votes in the Senate, and 150+ in the House. If a bailout is to pass, let it be with Democratic votes. Let this be the political establishment (Bush Republicans in the White House + Democrats in Congress) saddling the taxpayers with hundreds of billions in debt (more than the Iraq War, conjured up in a single weekend, and enabled by Pelosi, btw), while principled Republicans say "No" and go to the country with a stinging indictment of the majority in Congress.

CNN today:

McCain's announcement came just hours before President Bush was scheduled to address the nation on the troubled state of the U.S. financial system -- a problem for which his administration has proposed a $700 billion bailout.

In response, the Obama campaign said Obama called McCain at 8:30 a.m. Wednesday to ask if the Republican nominee would join him in a joint statement of "shared principles and conditions" for the proposal. It said McCain called back at 2:30 p.m. -- shortly before his New York announcement -- to agree, and "The two campaigns are currently working together on the details."


I guess it's going to be a bit harder for Republicans to weasel out of this one now, huh.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 12:53 PM on September 24, 2008


I will pay someone cash money to have this political thread not be about konolia.
posted by Bookhouse at 12:53 PM on September 24, 2008 [117 favorites]


I will not be surprised if there are no debates of any sort this fall. McCain's chances are slim enough without having the electorate watch Obama mop the floor with him in successive debates. The recent demand in changes of the VP debate format were an attempt to give Palin an out as well. The Dems wouldn't bite but expect her to follow McCain's lead and turtle too. Should Palin exit her bubble and actually debate, no matter how candy-assed the format, I would expect it to end with Biden standing on his chair swinging her wet entrails over his head like a lasso and yodeling...
posted by jim in austin at 12:53 PM on September 24, 2008 [29 favorites]


This is certainly more clever than just having his mom call the debate commission to tell them he has the runs and can't come in and take the test today.

McCain loves the stunts! Here's the next one: He'll publicly "learn" that Rick Davis has been on Fannie Mae's payroll the whole time. He'll be like, "What?! I trusted you, Rick. You don't take McCain's trust for granted. I care about this country too much to let you get away with this!" Then, he'll punch him, and Rick will fall through a breakaway table.
posted by ignignokt at 12:54 PM on September 24, 2008 [28 favorites]


Oh, I get it. He's going to focus on the economy. This should be good.
posted by lunit at 12:55 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Seriously, is his campaign run by 8-year-olds? It seems like the last two weeks have been non-stop rounds of "I know you are but what am I?" "Mom!!! He got more than me!!!" "I'm rubber and you're glue, it bounces off me and sticks to you!" and now this "My dog ate my homework" bullshit.
posted by mothershock at 12:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


If being present for important debates mattered to McCain, he would not be the most chronically absentee member of the senate.

You look at this man and see sincerity and honor. That's because you ignore the aspects you can't process or make sense of. You excuse his ugliest behavior because he "is no choir boy," but nail Obama to the wall for any guilt-by-association you can think of.

But most of us look at McCain and see a conniving and bumbling old fool who's gotten panicky and desperate. Of course this is a game and a trick. Of course. The *only* question is whether he can *spin* it as sincere interest in putting country "first."

And again, as I said in the last long Palin thread, this year Americans are not falling for crap like this, in significant numbers.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


The Obama campaign said no deal on postponing the debate.
posted by cereselle at 12:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [11 favorites]


I guess we know who'll answer that 3 AM phone call when the chips are down now, don't we?
posted by Pollomacho at 12:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [15 favorites]


My friends,

I don't mind a good debate. For reasons known only to God and my doctor, I've had quite a few tough ones in my life. But I learned an important lesson along the way. In the end, it matters less that you can debate. When you debate is the real test.

Thank you, and God bless you,

John McCain
posted by benzenedream at 12:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Its not about Konolia, I just feel like Obama would have gotten eaten alive by making a move like this.

Which is why its so weird. McCain won't be hit as bad as Obama would have been, but it doesn't exactly look pretty. "The People" were expecting a debate, and even in the most positive light McCain tries to spin this, it still comes off looking negative. I guess this is why Im not paid the big bucks.
posted by rosswald at 12:57 PM on September 24, 2008


You liberals have to remember, there was a time when McCain didn't have an opportunity to participate in a nationally televised US Presidential Debate on Foreign Policy, for FIVE YEARS... IN PRISON

Yeah, you liberals. He was a POW, now give him the keys to the White House already! Screw this election BS.
posted by Camofrog at 12:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Seven o'clock on a Friday night and McCain wants to work on the economy? By himself?
posted by JJ86 at 12:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [21 favorites]


Number of Senate votes McCain has cast since May: 0

-October Harper's Index
posted by mullingitover at 12:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [22 favorites]


I agree, Bookhouse. I will slap my own wrist and make no further direct responses to her.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


"This is an opportunity for both candidates to prove they care more about the nation than themselves. I personally think both will step up to the plate.

You... show up in these threads just to say ridiculous things, don't you?"


In political threads it's nice to hear, as it reinforces what the GOP talking points are for this news cycle. It saves the rest of us from having to listen to Rush or Hannity.
posted by An Infinity Of Monkeys at 12:59 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


Obama should offer to move the debate to DC so McCain can be close to the office he rarely shows up at.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:59 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


ericb "Advisers also say that McCain still wants to participate in all three presidential debates, but that the schedule is up in the air."

The hideous fury of election raged about them - and at that moment a still small chorus of an unlicensed rock ballad sounded through the debating hall as from an infinite distance. The moderator's weary eyes swiveled round to glare at the A/V guys. None of them seemed to be playing an instrument. Suddenly a wisp of smoke was swirling and shimmering on the stage next to him. The chorus was joined by more instruments. For weeks the moderator had waited and waited, and nothing like this had ever happened before. He drew back in alarm from the swirling smoke, and as he did so, a figure slowly materialized inside, the figure of an ancient man, balding, paunchy and wreathed in wrinkles. In his eyes was Honor and on his brow a wispy combover.

"What's this?" whispered the moderator, wild-eyed, "what's happening?"

At the back of the empty room the stony-faced party from Focus on the Family leapt ecstatically to their feet chanting and crying.

The moderator blinked in amazement. He threw up his arms to the cameras.

"A big hand please, ladies and gentlemen," he hollered, "for the Great Senator John McCain! He has come! McCain has come at last!"

Thunderous applause broke out as the moderator strode across the stage and handed his microphone to the Senator.

McCain coughed. He peered round at the assembled gathering. The Honor in his eyes blinked uneasily. He handled the microphone with confusion.

"Er ..." he said, "hello. Er, look, I'm sorry I'm a bit late. I've had the most ghastly time, all sorts of things cropping up at the last moment."

He seemed nervous of the expectant awed hush. He cleared his throat.

"Er, how are we for time?" he said, "have I just got a min-"

And so the election ended.
posted by Rhaomi at 12:59 PM on September 24, 2008 [33 favorites]


This is entirely needless. Yes, they're both Senators, but that doesn't put them on any sort of level at which they ought to be meeting with the sitting President as a pair on this issue. Nor should they be able to do that as candidates. And despite both being Senators, neither of them are on the Senate Banking Committee. Nor is either on on the Joint Economic Committee, from which the eventual bicameral bailout bill is expected to emerge. As Senators, they have only three roles in this crisis: 1) to vote on the eventual bill, and 2) to negotiate with their networks within the Senate on the content of the bill, and 3) to speak publicly in support of their vision for the bill. Only one of those roles (1) requires presence in Washington, and it doesn't look like that's going to be happening Friday night. Congress was scheduled to end its session Friday - they may have to go into special session, in which case Friday evening won't be when things get resolved anyway (that would be insanely optimistic!) The other two Senatorial functions can be fulfilled - indeed, perhaps best are fulfilled - by communicating from the road, privately and to the public and the press.

I am not sure I respect the judgement of a candidate who is so ready to go into panic mode over a crisis that he doesn't really even have much power to direct at this moment. We're six weeks away from electing one of these two men President. I think that the debates are actually a much more important way for them to spend their time than meddling in a process which is already well under way and doesn't require special Candidate Magic to move forward. It will be easy for them to fulfill their rather limited (at this moment) Senatorial responsibilities while still campaigning, as sitting Congresspeople usually do. The choice of who will be leading us through the aftermath of this crisis over the next 4-8 years is a bit more important to me than watching them showboat right now. Put in your two cents, stay out of the way, vote when you're called to, and stay accountable to the American people whose votes you're asking for. Anything else looks like grandstanding and evasion. No other way to read it.
posted by Miko at 12:59 PM on September 24, 2008 [101 favorites]


Obama campaign: "The debate is on."
posted by WCityMike at 1:01 PM on September 24, 2008


Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Asshole Times infinity.
But you've got to admire his gumption, hey?
posted by SPUTNIK at 1:01 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I imagine Karl Rove crying at this sad attempt (which is like the sweetest honey evAr).
posted by rosswald at 1:01 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I wouldn't even commit to the position that Obama will clearly win a debate (if it's held). Although it would be Obama's to lose.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 1:01 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


and meantime: Bush to address nation this evening. Further, the first time an army unit has been stationed in the nation and trained for civil disobedience...golly, the election? the economy? Iran?
posted by Postroad at 1:02 PM on September 24, 2008


Number of Senate votes McCain has cast since May: 0

Yeah, but he doesn't want to take the night off to VOTE. He's going to spend Friday night burying gold bars and canning tomatoes at one of his houses.
posted by dirtdirt at 1:02 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


PS if this was reversed you'd all be saying Obama was being a statesman.

And I would be agreeing with you.


No, we wouldn't, because there's a markedly smaller amount of pure partisan hackery on our side of the aisle, and we're usually the first to slam Democrats for any sleazy shit they try to pull, because we actually hold our leaders to some kind of standard, as opposed to the party who feels some sense of twisted pride over having kept the same rictus grin plastered across their respective faces for 8 years of a fetid, incompetent head-of-state waving their banner.

But that's fine, John, you do whatever you need to do... Obama will debate you in absentia if he has to, and when you finally do get to the stage, you're going to face the biggest mismatch of televised debates since Nixon's pallid sweat lost him the '60 election. There is literally nowhere left for these hucksters to run, and I have a bottle of bubbly reserved for the first time Obama prompts the kind of Vesuvian reaction we all know is just waiting to emerge from McCain's hollow, angry shell.

Your move, GOP.
posted by Mayor West at 1:02 PM on September 24, 2008 [21 favorites]


PS if this was reversed you'd all be saying Obama was being a statesman.
And I would be agreeing with you.


Not me. I'm an Obama supporter. If he tried to back out of a debate (especially if, as McCain has, he'd tried to schedule even more debates), I'd be profoundly disappointed in him.

The fact is, there's not a lot that Obama or McCain can do about this. Dodd and Frank on the Commerce Committee are going to be chiefly responsible for whatever enabling legislation gets proposed. And they strike me as pretty competent, although I really wish they were taking a more skeptical view of the basic premise that America needs to pump $700 bn into the financial sector, and that it needs to do this in the form of a handout to banks. Obama and McCain can speechify, they can ask their financial consultants (in McCain's case, that would be the architect of the deregulation that got us here, Phil Gramm) for advice, and they can show up for the vote. It wouldn't really interfere with their debate.

And heaven forbid that they should actually debate the form of the rescue plan in their debate (I realize presidential debates don't actually feature debating anymore) in a way that might advance the discussion, advance public understanding of the situation, and perhaps even lay out some different options to be considered before the vote were taken. Sheesh. That would be crazy.
posted by adamrice at 1:02 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


konolia, my understanding of this whole campaign nonsense is that each candidate is supposed to prove that he is more qualified to handle the crises that we all face. If he can't 'focus on the economy' and run for president at the same time, how is he going to handle the economy, foreign affairs, random natural disasters, and everything else that will be thrown at him as president? The world will not stop spinning on its axis so that he can get his shit together, whether he's running for president or if actually gets elected as president.

This is just a jackass move to buy some time and make McCain out to be the golden candidate. Hopefully, it won't work. Although I wouldn't mind watching Palin being completely slaughtered in a debate on Friday, either.
posted by mitzyjalapeno at 1:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [16 favorites]


I will pay someone cash money to have this political thread not be about konolia.

I'll pay double. She just loves the attention. Let's not give it to her. 'Nuff said.
posted by ericb at 1:04 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


Maybe when McCain is done fixing the economy President Bush can go fix the Large Hadron Collider.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:04 PM on September 24, 2008 [54 favorites]


I heard an aphorism once from the field of game theory: "when a loss is inevitable, all moves are equally rational."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:04 PM on September 24, 2008 [81 favorites]


If Obama were smart and ruthless, he'd suggest that the debates go on, but that the economic debate be shifted to Friday and the foreign policy debate be postponed. He could frame it as a "responsibility to speak frankly from our privileged position about the challenges facing our country." And it would put drive a stake into the heart of John McCain's campaign. He'd maintain momentum, look like he wasn't flinching in the face of challenges, and that he knows how to use his current position to address pressing problems.

Unfortunately, I think Obama's campaign is shifting into margin protection mode now, so I'm guessing he'll go along with this so as not to get hammered for his "opportunism." And McCain will restart his campaign when his gnomes perfect the mind control ray, or it's Nov 4, whichever comes last.
posted by felix betachat at 1:04 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


My fellow Americans, I want to take a few moments of your time to talk to you today about John McCain's decision to call timeout in his campaign.

I just want to say, I agree with his idea wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly. (beat) It is, finally, a good step in the right direction -- a step that frankly I think we all wish would have happened, somehow, sooner.

If only he had called timeout when he was trying to gut the regulators in the 1980s.

If only he had called timeout when he stepped up to the mic to tell America and everyone who was listening that he was fundamentally (beat) a deregulator.

If only he had called timeout when he was putting together his list of lobbyists to help run his campaign, and more than 80 of them were from the same predatory, amoral Wall Street firms that got us into this mess.

If only.

But now, you know,...here we are. (long beat)

We could have been in a far different place. Before the looting. We could have been in a better place. Before the crony capitalism and the lies. We could have used 700 billion dollars to fix education in this country, to fix health care, to make a difference to the American middle class. Before we discovered that John McCain and his band of merry men have taken it. Taken a bath in it. Rolled around in it.

I want to be very clear.

We have to fix this problem, and that sort of hard, tireless, brutal, and unpleasant work is going to be the hallmark of my presidency, and presidencies to come. Because I won't lie to you, today we have a mess to unravel that will resound down generations.

But I want you to remember tonight who caused these problems. Who created the atmosphere in which these jackals felt free to feed on the weak? And that's strong language, but at this point in history, knowing what we know now (beat) what has been hidden from us (beat) would any of us disagree with that?

I want you to understand that we have always been having this arguments...we on the Democratic side, and our opponents on the Republican side.

Our side of the story has been simple. Even a hockey game has a ref. (beat) Capitalism works, but it can also _be_ worked -- by the unscrupulous, the amoral, and the predators. You need a strong hand at the tiller...not to put your hand in the till and steal all you can get.

Turns out, yesterday? John McCain's head of the campaign's firm's been paid fifteen thousand dollars a month by some of these jackals. For not doing a lick of work.

Fifteen thousand dollars a month and now we have foreclosures.

Seven hundred billion dollar blank check for jackals and we didn't have enough money to defend New Orleans. Or Galveston. Or feed our kids.

Phil Gramm, at the time the chief economic adviser to John McCain, said that America is a nation of whiners.

And now John McCain (beat) wants to call a time out.

This isn't a sport. You don't get to roll around on the field faking an injury so you can play for time. This is America, where the people who have done wrong must truthfully answer for their conduct. In public. Under the light of the law.

OK, John. Suspend your campaign to go try to give the appearance that you're righting the wrongs you've been compounding, year after year, for your entire stay in Washington. You know what, though? I don't think it's going to work this time.

My fellow Americans...remember. Good night and God bless.
posted by felix at 1:05 PM on September 24, 2008 [169 favorites]


What Obama should say: "Well, we're really sorry that our opponent is unable to walk and chew gum a the same time..."

That was Lyndon Johnson describing Ford, but his actual quote was "fart and chew gum at the same time," and the press cleaned it up for him.
posted by StickyCarpet at 1:05 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Let's focus on the real narrative here: McCain, the great war hero, is a coward.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:05 PM on September 24, 2008 [16 favorites]


What a clown. Reminds me of 'the dog ate my homework.'
posted by carter at 1:06 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Breaking News: John McCain, 91, remembers he is a Senator, drives his Model T to Washington.
posted by clearly at 1:06 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


Sarah Palin on the economy:

"Unfortunately, that is the road that America may find itself on. Not necessarily this as it's been proposed has to pass or we're gonna find ourselves in another Great Depression. But there has got to be action taken, bipartisan effort-- Congress not pointing fingers at this point at...one another but.. finding the solution to this... taking action, and being serious about the reforms on Wall Street that are needed.''
posted by EarBucket at 1:06 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


In times of crisis, democracies need more debate, not less.
posted by vibrotronica at 1:07 PM on September 24, 2008 [17 favorites]


oh, I see that while I've been writing my comment, history has marched on. Good show Obama. Grill that leathery old bastard.
posted by felix betachat at 1:07 PM on September 24, 2008


Obama campaign: "The debate is on."

Oh God, I'm never going to hear the end of this from my Republican friends. This was a lose-lose situation for Obama, and I think he took the bigger loss.

Well played, Johnny-boy. Well played.
posted by cimbrog at 1:07 PM on September 24, 2008


Perhaps this is why. Emergency? White House admits to planning bailout for MONTHS. Updated.
posted by nickyskye at 1:07 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Large Hadron Collider.

Is it just me, or does anyone else have a visual metathesis when they read this (as in large hardon collider).

Because McCain is a large hardon collider, which is a fancy way of saying he's a dick.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:08 PM on September 24, 2008


The Obama campaign said no deal on postponing the debate.

Tsk, tsk. Barack Obama claims he wants to end petty partisan politics in Washington, but when given the chance to lend a helping hand to a struggling Republican in need, he leaves him twisting in the wind. So which is it, Obama: all for one, or all for me?
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:08 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


konolia, you are straw manning. And didn't Matt ask you to take a time out in the politics threads?

I agree the pullout call smacks of desparation, but it's totally McCain's campaign style this year: stunt, flail, reboot. This is a particularly ballsy stunt, because it might help him to regain the lost stature that his press blackout has cost him. The wording of the press release is brilliant, by the way. It totally co-opts the Obama campaign's language and Kum-Bay-Ya aspirational stuff. It's game, is what I am saying.

Of course, it occurs that possibly gamemanship is the wrong tack to pursue in seeking the Preznidcy, but that's up to all of us in the US to decide come November 5, enit.
posted by mwhybark at 1:08 PM on September 24, 2008


I will pay someone cash money to have this political thread not be about [someone].
posted by Bookhouse at 12:53 PM on September 24


I'll go you one better. Every time I get the urge to respond to [someone], I will mark the post-it next to my desk. By the end of the day I will donate $5 to the Obama campaign for every mark on my post-it. I hope you will join me.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:09 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


The fundamentals of our arguments for the debate are strong.


SIKE! Time out. I am going to go tackle a problem I don't understand.
posted by clearly at 1:09 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


There has got to be action taken

Something has to be done! This bailout plan is something!
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 1:10 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Hey, if John can't make it to the debate, thirteen cars, all the Bud you can possibly drink and one jet notwithstanding, then maybe Mr. Bush can show up in his place. After all, his administrations policies would be continued should the nation suffer a collective anaphylactic shock and be unable to pull the right lever come November 4th.
posted by jsavimbi at 1:10 PM on September 24, 2008


and I think he took the bigger loss.

If McCain were not already in a free fall and state of panic, maybe. But I'd say the odds are even with either response, and depend on how the media narrative is managed and rebutted.

Sure, some blowhards will back the McCain pretense to "country first" here; but need I remind anyone that the media seem not to be too prone to doing McCain's bidding this last week or two?

On the other hand, they do love a drama queen, and they do love a tight horserace, so maybe they turn on Obama now and we get the Great White American Hero treatment for old man Mac.

Obama team -- get out there and fight to put a stamp of "McCain is a coward" on this story.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:11 PM on September 24, 2008


My friends,

I don't mind a good debate. For reasons known only to God and my doctor, I've had quite a few tough ones in my life.


What the hell does that even mean?
posted by mannequito at 1:11 PM on September 24, 2008


Even Rove wouldn't put his stamp on this ridiculousness.
posted by VulcanMike at 1:11 PM on September 24, 2008


This is so god damned crazy it just might work...

Well, no. Not really.
posted by brundlefly at 1:12 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


This is entirely needless
- miko

Perhaps, but perception is reality, especially in a world where people still think is Obama is Muslim and where the entire nation cares deeply about missing blonde women.

What they are doing is presidential, and leadershippy, and shit. That's what the public wants to see.
posted by eurasian at 1:12 PM on September 24, 2008


Sarah Palin on the economy:

Bug report. This comment was garbled to the point of incomprehensibility. Please advise!
posted by dirtdirt at 1:13 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Maybe Johnny could borrow his wife's plane to fly to Mississippi after work on Friday?
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:13 PM on September 24, 2008


John McCain has asked that the first presidential debate be postponed and he will suspend his campaign so he can focus on the economy.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

But seriously. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
posted by Pastabagel at 1:13 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


From cereselle's link:
Obama supporter and chief debate negotiator Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., told MSNBC that "we can handle both," when asked about his reaction to McCain's call to postpone the first debate because of the administration's bailout plan. He believes they are making good progress on Capitol Hill on the bailout and his initial reaction is that the work on the Hill should not preclude the debate from taking place.

An Obama campaign official told ABC News the Democratic presidential candidate called McCain this morning to suggest a joint statement of principles.

McCain called back this afternoon and suggested returning to Washington.

Obama is willing to return to Washington "if it would be helpful." But reiterated Obama intends to debate on Friday.

McCain and his top advisers said the Republican presidential candidate has not committed to voting for the massive financial bailout plan proposed by the Bush administration, with aides saying he will reserve final judgment until there is a final product.
So where's the fire, McCain? Yeesh. Let the committees do their work and stop trying to get a piece of it. And - well positioned, Obama team.
posted by Miko at 1:14 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


McCain is pretty pathetic, isn't he? I mean, how did they nominate this guy?

McCain is a direct insult to anyone who is both conservative (as we understand that term here in the US) and intelligent. If I was a Republican, I wouldn't know what to do, frankly. Probably sit on my hands. On one hand, you vote for the other guy, or you vote for Batshit/Insane ticket presented to you by your own party.
posted by maxwelton at 1:14 PM on September 24, 2008


Awesome. I have Daily Show tickets for tomorrow.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 1:15 PM on September 24, 2008 [43 favorites]


I am actually upset that I have to leave work and not hear immediately what will happen next. These are scary times, when cupcakes want to stay at work.

Keep up the great reporting, MeFites.
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:16 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Does McCain even need to turn up? They could just use one of those talking GI Joe dolls, and when he's asked a question, you pull the string in his back and it gives you either "I was a POW", "My opponent is a Muslim extremist and he eats babies", "It's all the fault of the Washington Liberals" or "Look! Over there! Terrorists!"

That would free him up to... do whatever the hell he thinks he can do for the American economy on a Friday night.
posted by Grangousier at 1:16 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


robocop is bleeding, you lucky bastard.
posted by brundlefly at 1:17 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Good point on another thread -- we'd better not see Johnny Mac take his usual weekend off in Arizona this week.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:17 PM on September 24, 2008


.
posted by notmydesk at 1:17 PM on September 24, 2008


Felix, that was amazing. Comment of the week.
posted by MegoSteve at 1:18 PM on September 24, 2008


and The National Enquirer on teh Sarah Palin

Friends, today I will make history and purchase my first tabloid. I will also offer up $500 to any woman, or feller, who will testify, under oath, that they were boinking ol' Todd Palin while he was married to said Sarah. If he was on the road a lot, you know there was beef involved.
posted by jsavimbi at 1:18 PM on September 24, 2008


Oh, thank goodness. Finally, somebody who has a good grasp of economics will be working on the problem.
posted by dsword at 1:20 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Obama's statement at 4:45 Eastern.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:20 PM on September 24, 2008


The emerging chatter as I'm monitoring it already appears to favor "this is a gimmick/trick/evasion." Bad news for McCain.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:21 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


If McCain were not already in a free fall and state of panic, maybe. But I'd say the odds are even with either response, and depend on how the media narrative is managed and rebutted.

I'm not so sure about that. A lot of how swing voters swing goes with gut instinct, and while I'm an Obama supporter my gut instinct when I saw the headline (somewhere other than here first) was, "Well, good for him. Hope Obama joins him or he'll look bad." I can come up with all sorts of reasons why what McCain is doing is wrong, and intellectually I can support them, but they still feel like rationalization.

Part of the problem, I think, is that McCain's motives can only be filled in with what want them to be, here. Evidence points to a stunt, but we can't be positive. (I'm sure many people here in the echo chamber are positive, but so is Konolia and many others in her echo chamber. Its everyone else that matters.) Personally, I'm more believing that the motivation is, "We get be responsible and skip a debate? Awesome!" If anything, I'd slight them both for waiting this long if they were going to do it at all (which is support for it being a stunt, of course.)
posted by cimbrog at 1:22 PM on September 24, 2008


Hilariously, the Freepers seem to think that Obama's the one who's unprepared for debate, that he's upset because he'd have to write the answers on his hand again if the debate was delayed, that McCain should send Palin in his place, and that she'd wipe the floor with Obama.

How do these people live? One would think that without constant reminders, they would forget how to breathe and fall over dead, en masse.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 1:22 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


Harry Reid sez that the candidates returning to Washington "would not be helpful at this time."
posted by Bromius at 1:23 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


More to the point, McCain has already used up his Hail Mary Pass on Palin, and the ball is still in the air.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:23 PM on September 24, 2008


It's weird that people think their gut is the same as everyone's gut. When I heard McCain was trying to shut down the debate, my gut said he was using an idiotic excuse to back out of a debate that he fears. Who says swing voters don't have my gut and not yours?
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:23 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


Absuloutey everyone reading this thread right now should read National Review's The Corner:

From Jonah Goldberg:

As a matter of civics, I am at a loss to understand what the argument against this [postponing the debate] could possibly be. I didn't much like the cancellation of the first night of the GOP convention because of the hurricane. Democracy should go on, and all that. But postponing a debate so that the world's oldest deliberative body can tackle the most pressing domestic crisis in modern memory seems both democratic and appropriate. The debate in Congress isn't a photo-op. It's what Congress is for.

See? There isn't an argument that can be made against postponing the debate. We don't want to hear the candidates debate each other over tackling "the most pressing domestic crisis in modern memory." No one wants to hear that. We want to hear about who is secretly a muslim, and who is proud to be a Hockey Mom(TM).

In fact, Jonah, maybe we should postpone the election, because it would create too much uncertainty. What do you think of that? Did your AEI check clear yet, BTW?

Not enough walls, not enough bullets.
posted by Pastabagel at 1:24 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


I'm going to have to give McCain the benefit of the doubt on this one. True he's not on either committee but has influence. Whether he's there to fan the flames of reason and prudence (good) or do sneaky rich guy stuff (bad) the effects of the next two weeks have much much more to do with the outcome of the next Presidental term than anything else.

At the very least his decision will get people realizing that either (a) the economy is fruly tucked and IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED, or (b) the foxes are making away with the entire henhouse. I mean it affects Letterman!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:24 PM on September 24, 2008


Okay, John, but I expect to see a fixed economy on my desk Monday morning.
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:24 PM on September 24, 2008 [44 favorites]


Obama's statement at 4:45 Eastern.

Live, or a written statement?
posted by cashman at 1:24 PM on September 24, 2008


"You liberals have to remember, there was a time when McCain didn't have an opportunity to participate in a nationally televised US Presidential Debate on Foreign Policy, for FIVE YEARS... IN PRISON"

With all due respect to what McCain went through, his experiences should likely BEG him to take advantage of the opportunity to speak freely on any issue, and respect the right of others to do the same and facilitate the forums, stages, whatever, to debate and/or discuss critical issues in the hopes of finding common ground, a solution, voters, etc.

If my assumption is correct, you are saying that just because he went through what he went through, everyone should halt their plans at his word. With all respect to what everyone goes through in their unique lives, granted by the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness written in our declaration of independence, the world must carry on and do what it must to insure a democracy remains at the end of each day, at least on this land, so that others do not have to experience what he went through. Soldiers like him serve for many purposes, one of them is to defend these rights.

That said, I call BS on McCain's call for a suspension, and let the debate go on this Friday.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 1:25 PM on September 24, 2008


we'll see, cimbrog. I didn't have that gut reaction. But I'm a strong Obama partisan.

I'm not sure his real motivations are that deniable. Once people think about it for a moment, they'll realize that missing the debate doesn't do much for the bailout plan, and that not talking about the issues doesn't either.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:25 PM on September 24, 2008


It's weird that people think their gut is the same as everyone's gut. When I heard McCain was trying to shut down the debate, my gut said he was using an idiotic excuse to back out of a debate that he fears. Who says swing voters don't have my gut and not yours?

Good point. Thanks for making me feel better about this, Astro Zombie. I am projecting my intestines onto other people.
posted by cimbrog at 1:25 PM on September 24, 2008


Obama's statement at 4:45 Eastern

Live, I THINK.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:25 PM on September 24, 2008


I'm pretty sure East Manitoba etc etc. was kidding about the "five years in prison" line. It's become a pretty standard joke to attribute every McCain failing to that excuse. Unbelievably, McCain himself seems to have overspent his POW credit line. Now there's a bailout I'd like to see.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:26 PM on September 24, 2008


From Politico: McCain suspends his campaign, and asks to postpone Friday's debate, to address the financial crisis. Both candidates have been marginal players; McCain, though, seems to have the potential to make himself a major one, and his move is a mark, most of all, that he doesn't like the way this campaign is going. But in terms of the timing of this move: The only thing that's changed in the last 48 hours is the public polling.
posted by mothershock at 1:27 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I am projecting my intestines onto other people.

Ooh, I saw that movie! It was TERRIFYING!
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:28 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


What I'd really like to see is Obama debate McCain about this very bill directly on the Senate floor. That would be glorious.
posted by MegoSteve at 1:29 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


Man, suddenly I feel like I'm watching McCain swaying and bloody in an arena, and feeling the urge to jump up and yell FINISH HIM!!! at Obama with a downturned thumb.

Please--finish him. Put us out of his misery. Jebus.
posted by emjaybee at 1:29 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


More to the point, McCain has already used up his Hail Mary Pass on Palin, and the ball is still in the air.

McCain's just doing what you try next after the Hail Mary doesn't work and you wind up ten yards further back than you started: you fake an injury and force a time-out.
posted by EarBucket at 1:30 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


You know, if we are going to keep this thread, maybe someone should change the second link in it to the correct one for the FOX News poll?
posted by yhbc at 1:32 PM on September 24, 2008


Wait..how many time outs does he have left?
posted by jonmc at 1:32 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I am projecting my intestines onto other people.

Ooh, I saw that movie! It was TERRIFYING!

osted by Astro Zombie at 1:28 PM on September 24 [+] [!]

If I am not mistaken, you were in that movie.
posted by clearly at 1:33 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


Bingo, Earbucket!
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:33 PM on September 24, 2008


At the very least his decision will get people realizing that either (a) the economy is fruly tucked and IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED, or (b) the foxes are making away with the entire henhouse.

The problem is that everyone agrees that action is required, and nobody seems to have a coherent idea of what that action should be, including McCain. Do we bail out the bad guys to save the economy? Do we screw over the bad guys and end up screwing ourselves when the bad guys crash the economy? Do we try to do a little of both and hope things work out?

I would respect McCain's decision to do something about the problem a lot more if he actually told us what he wanted to have happen other than for the economy to be magically fixed.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:33 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Am I the only one concerned that either the whole world has gone mad, or I have?
posted by Bookhouse at 1:33 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Friday Night Lights!
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:33 PM on September 24, 2008


Ole Miss is saying that the debate is still on...according to Politico.
posted by Biblio at 1:34 PM on September 24, 2008


(a) the economy is fruly tucked and IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED, or (b) the foxes are making away with the entire henhouse.

Both.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:35 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Hey, I thought the fundamentals of our economy were strong, anyway?
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:37 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


While I realize that this is just a tactic to either avoid a debate or to make him look more patriotic, I have to say that part of me likes it.

I think that it is ridiculous that two active US Senators are spending the better part of a year by not being US Senators at all. Their jobs are to campaign. They should have to step down from the Senate if they are going to do this. To a lesser extent, it is true with Biden and Palin, too. These people are all being paid with taxpayer money to have full-time jobs. And they are not doing them.

Incredibly, even the US President does it when he runs for re-election. He spends months being a candidate first, and a President second. And that is the President of the United States. If I were a sitting US President running for re-election, I would say, "I have got better things to do than run around the country trying to raise money and campaign. I am the President of the United States. I think that takes priority over campaigning, so I hope you will excuse me for doing my job. I will be glad to debate my opponent three times leading up to the election, but you can decide whether you want to vote for me or not based upon what I do as President, not what I tell you on some campaign trail."
posted by flarbuse at 1:37 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I think that the consensus here is wrong, and that McCain is right. Never thought that I'd type that.

Both candidates are spending significant time prepping for the debate. Right now congress and the administration are hashing out major legislation (adding up to 7% to the national debt) which will hand over major powers and responsibilities largely to whomever is elected in November. It makes much more sense for them to be in DC full time this week representing their future potential administrations in this discussion.

This will be the most important piece of legislation from this Congress, and I damn well want my senator there paying attention and taking a role. The people of AZ think the same, I'm sure. I'm sorry that it will ruin a two hour TV episode where the candidates vie for the all important moron vote.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 1:37 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Wait..how many time outs does he have left?

That depends...how many tricks did the republicans use to push our current brilliant leader through? Whatever it is, multiply it by the number of houses owned by McCain and add it to the number of times Palin can blink *and* say "blink" in 5 minutes. As long as the dead wolf count in Alaska isn't the higher of the two, it should be accurate.
posted by mitzyjalapeno at 1:38 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I know I can't be the only one picturing Obama alone on stage Friday night, with 2 hours to answer questions at his own pace with no rebuttals.

McCain may not show up, but I have a feeling the "debate" will happen without him.
posted by Benjy at 1:38 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Speaking of The Corner:
Since Obama Seems to Want to Go On with the Debate
Many readers relay that they'd like McCain to just offer Palin step in for him.
OMGWTFLOL… er, I mean to say, yes, while it would be a considerable challenge for Barack Obama to engage Sarah Palin in a freewheeling debate entirely about foreign policy two weeks before the planned vice-presidential debate, I believe that progressives should be willing to make that sacrifice for the good of our country in this difficult time.
posted by designbot at 1:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


I should add that the internal polls over at McCain HQ must look absolutely terrifying; maybe worse than what we've seen so far. It's the only explanation for this kind of bizarre, desperate, panicky stunt. It's like he thinks he's a character on a TV show, not an actual candidate running to be the actual president.
posted by EarBucket at 1:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


robot: I respect a principled disagreement more than a talking points defense posture.

I don't agree with you, but we will see.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:39 PM on September 24, 2008


What an asshole. The country managed to have a presidential election, complete with violence-and-riots-ridden conventions and all, during the Civil War. This is inexcusable.
posted by raysmj at 1:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [15 favorites]


New rule: if you're desperate enough to throw around the phrase "suspend my campaign," then you damn well better mean it: i.e., pull your ads, circle your team's (lobbyist) wagons, refrain from oh lying on the goddamn record about yourself and your opponent, etc.

I do not think the words "suspend my campaign" means what he thinks they mean.
posted by joe lisboa at 1:40 PM on September 24, 2008 [10 favorites]


A friend I was just talking to referred to this as a "Fail Mary". I can't think of a more apt phrase.
posted by Remy at 1:40 PM on September 24, 2008 [42 favorites]


I think McCain finally realized that Bush got his ass handed to him in the debates last time, and he still won. So McCain is going to take it a step further and just forefeit entirely. He realizes that the debates are dead as a campaign sideshow. Nobody cares, people will root for their team regardless.
posted by mullingitover at 1:42 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


In semi-related news, The National Enquirer's headline today: SARAH PALIN LOVER REVEALED

BTW -- "...the National Review and Jonah Goldberg believe that reports of [Sarah Palin's] infidelity in the National Enquirer are not just news, they're credible news.
'Whatever the merits of the whole Edwards love child story, are we really supposed to believe that one of America's most famous trial lawyers wouldn't sue a publication that printed defamatory and slanderous lies about him?

Also, it's worth pointing out that while the Enquirer may or may not be scrupulous in its choice of stories — that's in the eye of the beholder — it is pretty scrupulous about its facts. They win lawsuits. They've broken a host of stories the MSM guys couldn't.'"
posted by ericb at 1:42 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Does you really think McCain's going to stay home and do his Econ homework on a Friday night?
posted by hallowdmachine at 1:42 PM on September 24, 2008


Harry Reid weighs in:

I understand that the candidates are putting together a joint statement at Senator Obama's suggestion. But it would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process or distract important talks about the future of our nation's economy. If that changes, we will call upon them. We need leadership; not a campaign photo op.


Because the thing is, nothing has changed since yesterday that requires McCain's attention. Nothing. Other than his poll numbers.

Now those, yeah they've changed.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:43 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


*[Sarah Palin's] infidelity*

I know they were referring to the Edwards' story that the National Enquirer pursued.
posted by ericb at 1:44 PM on September 24, 2008


It makes much more sense for them to be in DC full time this week representing their future potential administrations in this discussion.

See, the more I think about it, the more McCain seems to be following a BAD idea. The last thing the congressmen who are already on the case need is for two prima donnas to come traipsing in and bring their personal fight to the floor. This needs done quick and the extra baggage of two presidential candidates can only slow things down. Unless McCain and Obama are on agreement on something to force both of their parties to pass, they should stay the hell away except for perhaps when the vote comes.
posted by cimbrog at 1:44 PM on September 24, 2008 [11 favorites]


The only way (according to my gut, which is a potent, swampy place) that the current American situation can get any more surreal is if McCain changes his mind, agrees to the debate and then right after the first question about the economy throws down one of those ninja smoke bombs and goes zipping out of the venue on a batman style air powered grappling hook thing. Later he will be found wearing a fucked up Bruce Willis bald on top hippie mullet in the back wig and a paste on fu-manchu mustache trying to cross over the border into TJ using an expired gym membership card he swiped from Jessie Ventura. Oh a hundred thousand prayers to my great Homosexual Muslim Communist Secular Pagan Sky God that it might be so.

Every night HST comes to me in my dreams, splashes some Chivas on my face, ashes a Dunhill in my ear and hisses into my ear "It's... Just... Not... Fucking... Weird... Enough... Yet, Man!"
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:44 PM on September 24, 2008 [51 favorites]


I haven't heard McCain say he will "roll up his sleeves" this weekend to work on the economy. I don't believe he's going to do any real work unless he promises to roll up his sleeves.
posted by marxchivist at 1:45 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


postponing a debate so that the world's oldest deliberative body can tackle the most pressing domestic crisis in modern memory seems both democratic and appropriate

But this isn't how it works. "The world's oldest deliberative body" is not working on this as a body. It's not like there's a full session going on with all members of Congress seated at their desks and debating on the floor. Congress is working on it in tiny committees. Behind closed doors. That McCain and Obama are not behind. They could be in Washington and make a few phone calls, or they can be anywhere and make a few phone calls.

There is simply zero need for them to be husting to Washington during the scheduled debate time. The lights of the Capitol are going to be turned off Friday night. The people actually drafting the legislation are probably heaving their first sigh of temporary relief from a crushing week, having a few hours' respite over a neat bourbon and medium-rare steak. I'm not sure they're so in need of McCain swooping in at the last minute to go all spreadsheet on them at the last minute. In fact, since McCain can be viewed as one of the people who contributed directly to the conditions that created this crisis, I'm not so sure his solutionizing is even very valuable to the committees. Or to Bush. "Let's get the career-long deregulator in here to, er, create regulations and oversight!" Sounds...unrealistic.

I think fcm is reading the early buzz right. I normally avoid the news-website comments pages, but they are a pretty good place to sample the water-cooler buzz across the spectrum. And so far, this is not spinning well as a "leadership" move with many .

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid issued a statement on Sen. John McCain's effort to postpone the first presidential debate, stressing it "would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process."

He added: "If there were ever a time for both candidates to hold a debate before the American people about this serious challenge, it is now."
posted by Miko at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2008 [21 favorites]


He said it! "the president should be able to do more than one thing at once..."
posted by xorry at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


Obama live on CNN now. (stream)
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Wow! Obama just gave a press conference where he said that he believed that this is exactly the time when the American people need to hear from the candidates. "It's more important than ever."
posted by twoleftfeet at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


McCain's just doing what you try next after the Hail Mary doesn't work

I'm sorry about the derail, but this just hurts my football-loving-heart. There is no 'try next' after a hail mary because it's only called on the last play of the half/game. Well, unless the coach is completely insane...ohhh I get it.

posted by and hosted from Uranus at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Obama kicking ass on live TV right now.
posted by mothershock at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2008


Oh, yes, please please, let us have a republicans vs. democrats debate represented by Obama and McCain! I don't mind some postponement but yes please let us focus the whole debate on economics which the republicans have fucked up.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:46 PM on September 24, 2008


CNN statement, Obama answering questions now:
Debates: this is exactly the time when people need to hear from person who in approx 40 days will be dealing with this mess; part of prez's job to deal with more than one thing at once; more important than ever to talk to American people.
posted by madamjujujive at 1:47 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Watching Obama speaking live now (via CNN)..."I think it's part of the President's job to do more than one thing at once....It's more important than ever to present ourselves to the American people."
posted by jaimev at 1:47 PM on September 24, 2008


You'll note that Obama is also taking questions from the press right now, because he is not a coward.
posted by Bookhouse at 1:48 PM on September 24, 2008 [36 favorites]


Sometimes I wish Barney Frank could be a presidential candidate. But then I remember that presidential candidates aren't so open in their scathing remarks, and I change my mind. But what a dream.

On preview: Ok this Obama guy sounds good, too.
posted by Tehanu at 1:48 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


...making it very clear he is in the thick of things, talking daily to Congressional leaders and Paulson.
posted by madamjujujive at 1:48 PM on September 24, 2008


Thanks miko. I'm following comments right left and center, but mostly early editorial opinion on key sites. Granted, I'm looking mostly at the left and center, because the dead enders would defend McCain if he said he needed a weekend off to quit drinking.

I am seeing very little positive reaction from anyone reasonable.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:49 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


He just reiterated that "presidents have to deal with more than one thing at a time." This is beautiful.
posted by MegoSteve at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008


Angels and Airwaves? Really Obama? REALLY?

That is definetly not change I can believe in.
posted by Stynxno at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008


You sad, pathetic, underinformed old man. Why don't you go have Cindy take you for a ride on the SS Failboat or whatever your yachts are called and let the grownups take charge for a change?
posted by bitter-girl.com at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008 [10 favorites]


"Presidents are going to have to deal with more than one thing at a time." - Obama just now at his press conference.

This is the winning position.
posted by afx114 at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


The point was that many in the MSM are now taking notice of the National Enquirer's reporting. The current issue of Newsweek, for example, has this story: The National Enquirer: Ur-Text of the Tabloid Age.

The Enquirer says it has 3 sources and a signed affidavit relating to the Sarah Palin infidelity story.
"Whatever the merits of the whole Sarah Palin adultery story, are we really supposed to believe that one of America's most famous hockey moms wouldn't sue a publication that printed defamatory and slanderous lies about her?

Also, it's worth pointing out that while the Enquirer may or may not be scrupulous in its choice of stories — that's in the eye of the beholder — it is pretty scrupulous about its facts. They win lawsuits. They've broken a host of stories the MSM guys couldn't."*
posted by ericb at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008


Jiujitsu -- "If it will be helpful, I am prepared to be anywhere, any time. But I don't see the need to inject presidential politics into this situation . . . presidential candidates have to do more than one thing at a time .. . "
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008


Ungh. Why does CNN insist on that multiple-shot "Big Board"? Watching Obama speak is like watching that bootleg copy of The Dark Knight my friend filmed in the theatre a few months back.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008


This will be the most important piece of legislation from this Congress, and I damn well want my senator there paying attention and taking a role. The people of AZ think the same, I'm sure. I'm sorry that it will ruin a two hour TV episode where the candidates vie for the all important moron vote.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 4:37 PM on September 24


The candidates should be debating precisely this bill on Friday so they can clarify for the American people what is at stake if their version doesn't pass. I don't know if you've been paying attention, but networks like CNBC have been broadcasting wall to wall coverage of the committee hearings, including the lunatic fringe "what is the constitutional support for the Fed?" Congress is working the issue just fine without McCain there.

And no offense to John McCain, but he's a fucking dummy on his best days, and on a subject as technical as this he's clinically retarded. Most people don't realize the distinction between economics and finance (and this is a financial crisis that has turned into an economic one, not the other way around), so I can assure you that Mr. Fifth-from-dead-last-in-his-class doesn't either.

By the way, McCain's desire to rush to DC to work the problem himself demonstrate a textbook failure of executive leadership. Obama is doing the right thing here, because Obama knows he doesn't understand all these technical details and can't really add to the debate. What he is good at is making sure his party gets the big picture issues the way he wants them - does the govt take ownership of the bailed out companies or not, what punitive measures to take against executives, etc. The experts in his party can work the details within those larger issues.

McCain thinks he's going to start talking about swaps and the investment banking model and CDO's etc. after a five minute briefing? He's an arrogant fool. The experts in his party don't even want him there, because he'll screw things up.

Have the debate, and explain to us why you've been a senator through the S&L crisis, the 1987 crash, the CBO-junk bond collapse and somehow never saw this coming.
posted by Pastabagel at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008 [35 favorites]


We have to fix this problem, and that sort of hard, tireless, brutal, and unpleasant work is going to be the hallmark of my presidency, and presidencies to come. Because I won't lie to you, today we have a mess to unravel that will resound down generations.

... My opponent has ignored the economic crisis that we've seen building for years, even up until last week when he said that the "fundamentals are strong." But this week, when his poll numbers began to drop, he suddenly demands that we drop everything and run back to Congress so that we can solve this over the weekend.

That's just not a serious response -- in fact, it's exactly the sort of theatrics that got us into this mess, and I'm not interested in it. Many of us have been trying to get John McCain and George W. Bush to take these problems seriously for years, so either they've just now realized that they were wrong, or they're trying to play games with us -- again. Not this time. The stakes are too high.
posted by spiderwire at 1:50 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Obama just now said live on TV he wants to have the debate. it's a mistake.
posted by matteo at 1:51 PM on September 24, 2008


(I was quoting Obama from the live statement above)
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:51 PM on September 24, 2008


McCain's next move: Push through secret legislation which will officially declare November 4th, 2008 to be National Opposite Day.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:52 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


It makes much more sense for them to be in DC full time this week representing their future potential administrations in this discussion.

Neither of them is an expert economist. The economy does not need two egos giving out talking points. It does not need more noise and drama. They are not elected yet, and while their roles as senator and presidential candidates can conflict, the Presidential debates can't go on without them - yet the Congressional debates easily can. The consequences of both debates are very important.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 1:52 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


It makes much more sense for them to be in DC full time this week representing their future potential administrations in this discussion.

This will be the most important piece of legislation from this Congress, and I damn well want my senator there paying attention and taking a role.


But there's nothing for them to DO right now...other than make the phone calls and write the emails that they can do anywhere. They're not the ones drafting the bill. That's the key thing to realize.

It's like when there's a fire or accident and everyone rushes to the scene...only to stand around gawking. One of the first things they teach you in emergency management is to get the useless people out of the way so the people who are actually working on the problem can do their work. Going to Washington, for these two senators right now, is a waste of time and might in fact distract the committees from their work as media turn their attention to the star power of the Candidates' Descent.
posted by Miko at 1:52 PM on September 24, 2008 [18 favorites]


...we both have big planes, they can get us from DC to MS very quickly ...
Reiterates: Very important that the American people see the people who could be in charge of this in a few months
posted by madamjujujive at 1:52 PM on September 24, 2008


MSNBC Poll: Agree or Disagree: Friday's presidential debate should be postponed so the candidates can focus on the economy.
posted by ericb at 1:53 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


OK, that's it, my disbelief is no longer suspended. You guys are just putting this wacky "election" stuff on television while Bush reinforces his bunker, right?
posted by pracowity at 1:54 PM on September 24, 2008


CNN streaming won't play on my Mac, anybody got another source?
posted by sciurus at 1:54 PM on September 24, 2008


Uranus, the thing is that "attempted onside kick" doesn't make such good copy. Fail Mary, though, whoever posted that one, thanks a million, I will use that a lot.
posted by Mister_A at 1:55 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I think McCain was afraid he was going to be out-statesman'd (?) by Obama, because of the 8:30am suggestion of a joint statement. That was some classy-ass shit from Obama, and McCain knew it, and also knew that he couldn't agree to it without seeming like he was doing Obama's bidding. So he's like - "Oh, yeah? You want statesmanship? How 'bout we suspend campaigns out of respect for the economic clusterfuck..." etc.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 1:55 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I mean, this is like when Obama complained of the McCain ads -- he looked like a whiner. same thing now -- he got shafted on this, McCain is not playing clean on this, he wants to buy time and frame this pullout as the patriotic thing to do, to make Obama look unpatriotic and power hungry, it's obvious bullshit, but Obama has to bite the bullet on this -- what if McCain doesn't show up at the debate? Obama will look like the biggest dick ever.
posted by matteo at 1:55 PM on September 24, 2008


Has anyone really outlined all of the things McCain has cribbed or stolen from Obama's campaign? It's disturbing that Obama was the one that initiated the phone call regarding the joint statement, and McCain decided to turn that into a political play behind Obama's back by coming out to suspend his campaign. It just oozes of sleazy politics.
posted by MegoSteve at 1:55 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Sometimes I wish Barney Frank could be a presidential candidate.

Barney Frank: "I'm used to being in the minority. I'm a left-handed gay Jew. I've never felt, automatically, a member of any majority."

Seconded.
posted by joe lisboa at 1:55 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


That MSNBC question is a perfect example of a badly framed, context-presupposing question.

And even so, McCain has few friends freeping it yet.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:55 PM on September 24, 2008


The reporters keep asking leading questions, wanting him to slam McCain, and Obama keeps redirecting them to the point (remember? our free-falling economic death spiral?). Obama is a freaking living masterclass in not biting the hook.
posted by mothershock at 1:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Does anybody else think that if McCain even had a passing familiarity with the computer, this discussion wouldn't even be happening.

"Well, we have the economy to worry about, and when the men with their slide rules finish charting things on graphs, they are going to need to communicate with me in some way, and even the fastest messenger on the fastest pony can't get me that quill-written letter if I'm across the country. Hell, it couldn't even be done by carrier pigeon ..."
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [31 favorites]


John McCain has asked that the first presidential debate be postponed and he will suspend his campaign

The Enquirer says it has 3 sources and a signed affidavit relating to the Sarah Palin infidelity story.


Holy shit, I just figured it out. Maybe McCain is going to drop Palin as VP and add Romney?
posted by Pastabagel at 1:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I'm going to repeat this from the long Palin thread for laffs, because I'm still cracking up over it.

Today on another board I saw Sarah Palin referred to as "Churchy Spice."
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [47 favorites]


And now McCain has backed himself into a totally predictable corner where he can't campaign and Obama can.
posted by amro at 1:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Neither of them is an expert economist.- Solon

It doesn't take an expert to figure out that you oughtn't to give the keys back to these drunks, but I take your point.

Also: Jeez, fast thread is fast.
posted by Mister_A at 1:58 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


CNN streaming won't play on my Mac, anybody got another source?

Check washingtonpost.com front page.
posted by inigo2 at 1:59 PM on September 24, 2008


Too late, he's done.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:59 PM on September 24, 2008


Astro Zombie, write us a song!
posted by Mister_A at 2:01 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Damn. I guess I'll wait for it to show up on YouTube.
posted by sciurus at 2:01 PM on September 24, 2008


Right, Mister_A. I would agree that it's important for them to be back in Washington working on this if either of them was in a committee working on this. It's not that I think Presidential debate automatically wins over Congressional Duties - it just depends on who is running for President. It's not like McCain is going to be doing anything he wouldn't be able to do from a hotel room with a phone/computer and television. (Yeah, I know, McCain + computer... just pretend for a moment.)
posted by Solon and Thanks at 2:02 PM on September 24, 2008


Holy shit, I just figured it out. Maybe McCain is going to drop Palin as VP and add Romney?

Oh please, oh please. . .

Seriously, never in a million years. McCain would lose by 20 points. They'd be able to call the election by 8PM EST.
posted by EarBucket at 2:02 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


The reporters keep asking leading questions, wanting him to slam McCain, and Obama keeps redirecting them to the point (remember? our free-falling economic death spiral?). Obama is a freaking living masterclass in not biting the hook.

Better still, he has perfected that tone of gently scathing mockery that's become characteristic of his attacks on McCain since the conventions. Reporters were pushing him to declare McCain's grandstanding rush as out of bounds and instead he just smiles conspiratorially, repeats the carefully worded statement, and conveys an entire volume of scorn with his eyebrows. Please, please, please let these men debate on Friday.
posted by felix betachat at 2:02 PM on September 24, 2008


Rather than moving up the Biden/Palin debate, here's an even better suggestion for John McCain:

2) Volunteer to let his VP nominee sit in for him against Obama on Friday.

OH PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO IT DO IT DO IT
posted by fungible at 2:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I watched it on Al Jazeera
posted by matteo at 2:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


lol
posted by sciurus at 2:04 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


McCain is not playing clean on this, he wants to buy time and frame this pullout as the patriotic thing to do, to make Obama look unpatriotic and power hungry, it's obvious bullshit, but Obama has to bite the bullet on this

Uh, yeah. So what's the next part of the McCain Master Plan, the next swoop of the OODA loop: Does McCain shit his pants in public or what?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:04 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


If McCain doesn't show up at the debate, Obama gets 2 hours of nationally televised air time.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 2:05 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Astro Zombie, write us a song!

I will not have a debate today
I have to work on the economay
Our finances are in disarray
And that's not good for the economay
There's a lot of money we're gonna pay
To prop up the old economay
It can't be done if I stay away
It's the debate or the economay
It must be done without delay
And so I say, with some dismay
That I will not have a debate today
As I have to work on the economay.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:08 PM on September 24, 2008 [32 favorites]


Oh, that does it. Joe Lieberman is "disappointed" with Obama.

Talk abotu disappointment, dickwad.
posted by fourcheesemac at 2:10 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


Debate Commission says: Friday night debate is on. (per MSNBC just now)
posted by mothershock at 2:11 PM on September 24, 2008


another tactic to keep the actual policies of the McPalin camp out of the media. Maybe he'll show up but only allow the press to be there for 29 seconds.
posted by noriyori at 2:11 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


::Rove, McCain, and Palin stand outside waiting for the school-bus Monday morning::

Rove: Johnny, you shouldn't have gone to the debates the other night, Obama really made you look bad.

::McCain grumbles, balls his fists up in his pockets and digs a hole in the dirt with his sneaker::

McCain [grumbling]: Didn't even wanna go. I wanted to stay home and fix the 'conomy, but everybody was makin' fun of me, callin' me chicken, so I had'ta.

Rove: shouldn't have done it though, now the everyones gonna call you names.

Palin: What's "vapid" mean?

Rove: Huh?

Palin: Some called me vapid. I think it means I'm pretty. Does it mean I'm pretty Karl?

Rove: *sigh* Yeah. It means you're pretty. Listen guys, I'm not feeling well. I'm gonna skip school today.

::Rove leaves::

McCain [still grumbling]: Reminds me of the time those mean guys stuck me in that 'frigerator box and beat on the sides with sticks.

Palin: I'm vapid Johnny! Wheee!

::image fades::

~fin~
posted by quin at 2:12 PM on September 24, 2008 [32 favorites]


"Disappointed" is Joe Lieberman's default setting.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 2:13 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


*donates money to the Obama campaign*

I have now solved one more financial problem than John McCain.
posted by oaf at 2:15 PM on September 24, 2008 [17 favorites]


Yeah, Lieberman is like Droopy Dog, if Droopy Dog was in the pocket of AIPAC.
posted by fourcheesemac at 2:16 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


This is a strong contender for Daily Show Dick Move of the Decade
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:17 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


(inspired by AstroZombie, to the tune of "Yes! We have no bananas!")

"Yes! We have no debates!
We have no debates today!
We have pandering and lying, subterfuge and crying
And all kinds of farce and -- say,
We have responsibilities to abdicate
And an end-times evangelical VP candidate, but
Yes! We have no debates,
We have no debates today!"
posted by mothershock at 2:17 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


WAIT wait wait.

I go to Ohio State, and just received this e-mail (asking for volunteers) from the Political Science Department:

"ABC News' This Week with George Stephanopoulos will be in Columbus this Friday, Saturday and Sunday to setup and shoot a live town hall with Republican presidential nominee Senator John McCain."

What happened to suspending his campaign?
posted by Solon and Thanks at 2:18 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Obama on CNN says (let me paraphrase) that he proposed to McCain to issue a joint statement. McCain agreed, and also "muddled through" an inquiry about postponing the debates. Obama thinks it's wrong to inject presidential politics into the negotiations on Capitol Hill, and thinks the best thing they can do is show the American people that they are committed to the issue (through the joint statement), and to continue with the debates so the American people can be more intimately acquainted with their policy platforms, etc. Oh, and that they have big jets with their names on them to whisk them to Washington should they be needed (and to Mississippi for the debate, too.)
posted by quanta and qualia at 2:18 PM on September 24, 2008


It's become a "political" story already (MSNBC headline "Crisis Engulfs Debate Politics").

Remember Churchy Spice's advice, Barack -- don't blink. Just stare them down and dare them to walk out of the ring.

The usual blowhards (ie Blitzer and co.) are trying to find the pro-McCain spin here, but struggling. Meanwhile Jack Cafferty just called it a "stunt."
posted by fourcheesemac at 2:18 PM on September 24, 2008


The hysteria about what will happen to "the economy" if the "Big Bailout Plan" is not passed IMMEDIATELY is just that: hysteria. It is being manufactured.

Now, a related digression: frankly, and yes conspiratorially, I find it hard to understand why some of these financial firms--that have been limping along for years--suddenly went under in one big fell swoop with six weeks to go before the election. One would think Paulson would have been told by Bush and his cronies to just keep them afloat for six weeks, and then let the next president deal with the mess. I still don't see exactly and specifically what sent the dominoes tumbling so quickly. Lehman was rumored to be in trouble back when Bear went down last spring. Presumably the fiasco at Fannie and Freddie could not be even temporarily averted. But AIG, Goldman, Merrill's takeover by Bank of America, Wachovia's and Morgan's troubles, etc--what exactly caused the entire to house of cards to collapse virtually overnight? My understanding of these firms is that they were very, very, very good at stalling on bad news. They had perfected the art of playing with non-existing, with finding legal loopholes to cook the books, with announcing multi-billion-dollar "write-downs" in stages, rather than all at once, etc: so why were some of them no able to keep the charade going for another six weeks? Clearly Paulson used his considerable power to ensure his beloved Goldman fared the best, and Buffett's recent investment in them cements that. Just as clearly Lehman was deigned not worth trying to rescue. But what's really going on here? Was Paulson recently given an ultimatum by the Chinese on one of his numerous visits there? That Paulson has been jetting around the globe attempting to shore up capital and secure investments (self-link) is no secret. What was the exact chain of events that got us to this point, and why were Bush and his handlers not planning on just delaying this shit-storm until the next president came along? More question than answers here, I realize, but I cannot shake the feeling that the looting of the Treasury is being done in reaction to what amounts to a semi-manufactured crisis. I readily admit that the financial sector is seriously in a mess, and has been for some time, but the way the thing has unfolded seems, in more than one way, a bit suspect.
posted by ornate insect at 2:18 PM on September 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


A lot of people are suddenly asking this: what's wrong with McCain's face in this video? Watch his left eye.
posted by fourcheesemac at 2:21 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


Seems like the move is consistent with the message the McCain campaign has been drumming.
Just recently Schmidt was castigating the congress for adjourning for recess on Sept. 26 before addressing the Wall Street stuff.

But (as Miko pointed out) congress is out of session on the 26th, so ... what? He’s going to sit in there alone? He’s going to pretend to be delivering pizza to one of the committees working on this and stick his head in?

Goldberg has his head up his ass, as a matter of civics.

And - if you say it’s not on. And the other guy says “Oh, it’s on.”
Man...you’re gonna get served.

On the other hand maybe McCain is just that ballsy. Maybe he’s blowing off the debate to go play golf or something.

It is amazing though, how much of this showboating depends on ignorance.
And if you aren’t - that is - if you happen to know something about whatever issue - you see how much bullshit talk it is.
And you see the level of contempt folks in the McCain campaign and guys like Lieberman must have for us.
They’ve gotten used to pissing on people’s heads and telling them it’s raining.
But it’s such an old form.

I mean - I told y’all Obama was a 1,000 lb gorilla - and no one would see him coming. Oh, I’m not saying he’s wearing white gloves.

But the press, the other pols, they’re used to dealing with marshmallows. This whole ‘not’ exploiting people’s ignorance must really freak them out.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:21 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Another theory: suspending TV ads for several days levels Obama's significant likely financial advantage for the next 6 weeks. Betcha McCain saw the ramped up Obama spending numbers and realized he couldn't match it.
posted by fourcheesemac at 2:24 PM on September 24, 2008


Okay, seriously. This election season in the US is like watching a collaboration between Michael Bay and Uwe Boll, except they've been told they can't have explosions or blood, so now they're just trying shit out and seeing what sticks.

Is there some kind of hidden amendment to the Constitution that mandates seeing just how weird things can get before the US population gets wise?
posted by Dipsomaniac at 2:24 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


what if McCain doesn't show up at the debate? Obama will look like the biggest dick ever.

Quite the opposite. For a long time I've been reading the sky-is-falling crowd who are really concerned with being outmanuvered on stunts like this and swiftboating and the like. But it is a case of the Republicans going to the well too many times. There are two key facets of American culture that need to be kept in mind here. First that people like the same thing over and over again, and second, that they hate the same old thing.

Nobody is buying the same old stuff. Circumstances change and they have changed tremendously since 2004.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:26 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


CHRIST WHAT AN ASSHOLE.
posted by tristeza at 2:26 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


"In semi-related news, The National Enquirer's headline today: SARAH PALIN LOVER REVEALED"

You got to love the picture they chose to run with that...
posted by Naberius at 2:27 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


This just in:

McCain to wear Palin mask during debate.
posted by Mister_A at 2:27 PM on September 24, 2008


Debate? Hell, I'm surprised he didn't suggest suspending the election
posted by rocket88 at 2:28 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Taking time out to learn enough about the economy of Japan or Mexico to deal with a localized financial crisis would be one thing, but not being up to speed on our own economy seems like a confession of incompetence and failure to plan.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:28 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


The Enquirer story reminds me of Fargo ...
posted by carter at 2:29 PM on September 24, 2008


Churchy Spice? Perfect.
posted by adamrice at 2:29 PM on September 24, 2008


Most people don't realize the distinction between economics and finance...

Especially McCain. As of last week, he didn't even know for what the various Senate Committees are responsible.

McCain Doesn’t Know What His Own Committee Does.
“With Wall Street’s financial institutions in turmoil, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) argued in a series of interviews today that his experience on the Senate Commerce Committee meant he knew ‘how to fix this economy.’ ‘I understand the economy. I was chairman of the Commerce Committee that oversights every part of our economy,’ McCain told CNBC’s Squawk Box [video].

But, as the Washington Post points out, the Commerce Committee doesn’t oversee ‘every part of our economy,’ let alone ‘the very areas now in crisis’:
‘In fact, it is the Senate Banking Committee that has oversight of “banks, banking and financial institutions; control of prices of commodities, rents and services; federal monetary policy, including the Federal Reserve System; financial aid to commerce and industry and money and credit, including currency and coinage.”

According to its Web site, the Commerce Committee oversees 13 areas, beginning with the Coast Guard, and continuing through “regulation of consumer products and services … except for credit, financial services, and housing” — the very areas now in crisis.’
It’s not that surprising that McCain is confused about the Commerce Committee’s economic responsibilities, considering that he freely admits, ‘The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.’”
posted by ericb at 2:30 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


Do you mean the *wink*? I've seen that several times from McMaverick. How about a this panting dog?
posted by quanta and qualia at 2:31 PM on September 24, 2008


This election season in the US is like watching a collaboration between Michael Bay and Uwe Boll, except they've been told they can't have explosions or blood, so now they're just trying shit out and seeing what sticks.

This just in: McCain replaces Palin with Verne Troyer.
posted by cog_nate at 2:33 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


How's it polling? Bad for McCain:

Survey USA did a snap poll on the subject this afternoon:

50% want the debates to go on as scheduled, 36% want the debates but to change the focus on the economy, 10% want a postponement, 4% say not sure.

That's 86% against McCain.

As I said earlier, people just aren't buying this--it is too sudden. If McCain had started talking about this on Monday, maybe, but the American people are smarter than people give them credit for. They get it.

I know a whole bunch of people are going to scream about how dumb the American people are but that is the exact "elitist" crap that has sunk us. Obama has trusted in the brains of the American people (see Hillary's BS gas-tax holiday stunt) and they have never let him down. I don't think he's going to stop now. I think he knows something that most of us don't.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:34 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


This is a rather huge length to go to just to avoid the debate.:P
posted by electricsoup at 2:38 PM on September 24, 2008


Man with all due respect to our fundamentalist/dominionist hardcore conservative friends, if there is a God and there were a time that God Himself sought to intervene in American politics, it has got to be happening now. A cat-5 hurricane predicted to hit new orleans during the start of the RNC convention, and a market shock/financial system collapse timed with the fall run up to an election between an old Republican drone (and a cynical faux religious half-wit with a pregnant teen daughter as his running mate) and an upstart clear change agent who appears to be as morally upstanding as anyone who's run for office in decades.

God’s sitting up on his cloud saying, “damn it... How many signs do you people need??? Vote for Obama, you morons!!"

Christ: "Word."
posted by psmealey at 2:38 PM on September 24, 2008 [47 favorites]


earbucket: McCain's just doing what you try next after the Hail Mary doesn't work and you wind up ten yards further back than you started: you fake an injury and force a time-out.

Exactly.

McCain likes gambles.

This is a big gamble-- it might work.

It might blow up in his face, and, actually, odds are that it will-- but if it doesn't... it'll pay off pretty well.

FWIW, McCain's approach isn't strategic, it's tactical; even though the Palin pick is starting to weigh him down, it gave him a strong short-term boost. That boost has just encouraged him to go with his instinct... which is to do sudden, Wild 'n' Crazy Guy Seventies SNL moves. Though he's less Steve Martin than Dan Aykroyd... Angry Dan Aykroyd.
posted by darth_tedious at 2:40 PM on September 24, 2008


I once saw an Asian stripper squat and drop a golf ball out of her rectum.

This is weirder than that.
posted by wfrgms at 2:41 PM on September 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


BREAKING: MCCAIN CAN'T FOCUS ON ECONOMY AND FOREIGN POLICY DISCUSSION AT SAME TIME
Ticker: Would China exploit his weakness if President? Is he also too old to think about both safety and civil liberties?
posted by DU at 2:42 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Christ: "Word."

Obama cultist
posted by spiderwire at 2:42 PM on September 24, 2008


Re: Rick Davis NYT article
Is the McCain campaign's assertion (that Davis since 2006 has been effectively divorced from the firm) correct? It's a pretty bold assertion if untrue.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 2:44 PM on September 24, 2008


NationalReviewfilter: I am at a loss to understand
posted by lukemeister at 2:46 PM on September 24, 2008


Is it just a coincidence that this was announced hours before Bush addresses the nation in prime time about the economic crisis? Sounds like a tag-team suplex attempt to me.

So which way does McCain go? If he goes against Bush, he enforces his "maverickness" at the expense of GOP support. But if he goes with the administration on the bailout, he retains his GOP base (perhaps the only support he has left) at the expense of his "maverick" image.

Seems to me McCain loses either way.
posted by afx114 at 2:46 PM on September 24, 2008


I'm old and jaded, and yet I am having so much fun watching this election unfold. This has been the most awesomest campaign EVER! Rock on, crazy McCain! Spin the decision wheel again!
posted by ferdydurke at 2:47 PM on September 24, 2008 [13 favorites]


I haven't heard McCain say he will "roll up his sleeves" this weekend to work on the economy. I don't believe he's going to do any real work unless he promises to roll up his sleeves.

Hi next move is to offer to hash it out with Obama while they both clear brush at one of McCain's houses.
posted by Killick at 2:47 PM on September 24, 2008


Fox News says McCain wants the 1st Pres debate to replace the VP debate in STL on Wed, and for the VP debate to be held in MS at a TBD date.

Also, three different McCain spokespeople have said that McCain is going to Washington 'to roll up his sleeves' and get to work.
posted by Science! at 2:49 PM on September 24, 2008


So when do we invade Iran?
posted by R. Mutt at 2:50 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Just saw this on Drudge: LETTERMAN MOCKS MCCAIN CANCELLATION

Money quote(s):

"You don't suspend your campaign. This doesn't smell right. This isn't the way a tested hero behaves."

"I think someone's putting something in his metamucil."

"He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she?"

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"
posted by Rhaomi at 2:52 PM on September 24, 2008 [15 favorites]


Holy shit, I just figured it out. Maybe McCain is going to drop Palin as VP and add Romney?

Pastabagel -- I have been pondering that, too. Have you noticed that McCain has appeared in public with Romney a few times this week and last?

McCain meets on bailout with Romney, CEOs .
posted by ericb at 2:52 PM on September 24, 2008


And the rest of the world looks on, giggling nervously, the same way they did when they were just little kids and that weird guy down the street dropped trou and did the "helicopter" in the local playground one delicate spring afternoon.
posted by turgid dahlia at 2:53 PM on September 24, 2008 [19 favorites]


If only Obama hadn't rejected McCain's invitation to ten town hall style debates, then he never would have had to resort to teh crazee.

I'm old and jaded, and yet I am having so much fun watching this election unfold.

I'm old and jaded too, but this is like watch a whale beach itself. McCain is worse than a terrible candidate: he's pathetic.

The problem though, is that there are still 50MM people who are numb and ignorant enough to actually put this clown in the oval office, regardless of ANYTHING he says or does. The fear is that one of these gimmicks will be timed well enough, or give him just enough dumb luck to convince another 30MM people that he's the right choice.
posted by psmealey at 2:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Holy shit, I just figured it out. Maybe McCain is going to drop Palin as VP and add Romney?

My thought too.
posted by R. Mutt at 2:58 PM on September 24, 2008


What is "the world's oldest deliberative body?" I thought that was the Althing.
posted by RussHy at 2:58 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Oh, they want to make the vice-presidential debates TBD? Who'da thunk it?
posted by Bookhouse at 2:59 PM on September 24, 2008


The hysteria about what will happen to "the economy" if the "Big Bailout Plan" is not passed IMMEDIATELY is just that: hysteria. It is being manufactured.

Let me draw you a diagram.

Bailout stalls in Congress, plan is DOA on Monday. Short sell ban expires Oct. 2 (I think, perhaps earlier).

Financials are sold off and shorts return, destroying Morgan Stanley. Washington Mutual fails. Washington Mutual has 143 billion in FDIC insured deposits, which is three times the size of the FDIC fund. FDIC breaks. Wachovia fails. Other national and regional banks will fail. The govt will have to pass an emergency FDIC bailout to cover all those deposits. And the fat cats on Wall Street don't have Wachovia savings accounts. Morlochs like us do.

Depositors, i.e. you and me, cannot get at our money. In other words, your ATM cards and debit cards won't work, because there's no bank account connected to it. How much cash do you have on you right now? Because you're going to live off of that until your next payday, assuming you'll have one (see below).

Do you rely on a debit card? Not anymore. No cash means you're going to go to your credit card. But with cash frozen in the system the price of what money is still free to move will skyrocket. In other words the interest rate (i.e. the price of money) will go through the roof. So the money for groceries your credit card lent you is going to accrue 30% interest.

Meanwhile, on Wall Street, money market funds are ransacked, and the price of many falls below $1. But the $1.3 trillion in money markets is also insured so the govt is now on the hook for untold billions. In the meantime, the equity markets collapse. So no one is going to retire ever. Which means that Social Security is going to have to pick up the slack or a lot of seniors are literally going to go homeless.

And the govt has to step in anyway now because when people can't get their money, they can't spend it. So imagine the ripple effects. How many retail sector layoffs, service sector layoffs, etc. No economic activity means the economy is going to contract. That means recession, or worse. But the labels don't matter. The average person on the street won't have any money. In a stroke of irony for Ron Paulites, now the U.S. mint really will have to start printing actual physical money as fast as they can order ink because the electronic money is inaccessible.

So, not to pick on you or anything, but I don't think you appreciate the gravity of the situation. I'm not suggesting we pass Paulson's plan sight unseen. I don't care if the govt becomes the number one shareholder of every bank in America and every derivatives trader has to get castrated by a Saw-Z-All. The banks must stay open or the lives of people you know and love will be ruined. Get the picture?
posted by Pastabagel at 3:01 PM on September 24, 2008 [35 favorites]


A lot of people are suddenly asking this: what's wrong with McCain's face in this video?

He probably couldn't get his "American Idol" make-up artist there in time.

John McCain Uses Idol Makeup Artist!
"John McCain, whose ads skewer Barack Obama for his 'celebrity' status, has his own close ties to show business, the new issue of Us Weekly reports exclusively.

The 72-year-old was recently made TV-ready by makeup artist Tifanie White who's worked on So You Think You Can Dance and American Idol.

McCain paid the 2002 beauty-school grad $5,583.43 for her services, according to the Federal Election Commission."
posted by ericb at 3:01 PM on September 24, 2008


From ericb's link:
John McCain, still on the fence whether to back the proposed $700 billion bailout of Wall Street, huddled this morning with a panel of business executives, including former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney.

The Associated Press reports that McCain said he wanted to discuss "how we can make sure that the American people regain confidence on Main Street so that they can regain their confidence in Wall Street and in Washington."
Because if there's one thing that billionaire executives understand, it's how regular folks like us can regain our confidence in Wall Street and in Washington.

This is how the man thinks. You can't make this shit up, people.
posted by psmealey at 3:01 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


God, I love this echo chamber.
posted by smackfu at 3:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


And he’s taking his ads down. Wha…? Does he personally broadcast them live? What’s he going to do next, only ever appear in a wheelchair?
posted by Artw at 3:03 PM on September 24, 2008


Churchy Spice.
posted by mwhybark at 3:03 PM on September 24, 2008


Fox News says McCain wants the 1st Pres debate to replace the VP debate in STL on Wed, and for the VP debate to be held in MS at a TBD date.

"Or hey," McCain continued, "if you want to cancel the VP debate all together, that's cool too. Whatever."
posted by turaho at 3:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Just saw this -- McCain was supposed to be on Letterman tonight, but canceled the appearance to go work on the economy. However, during the taping...

Then in the middle of the taping Dave got word that McCain was, in fact just down the street being interviewed by Katie Couric. Dave even cut over to the live video of the interview, and said, "Hey Senator, can I give you a ride home?"

Earlier in the show, Dave kept saying, "You don't suspend your campaign. This doesn't smell right. This isn't the way a tested hero behaves." And he joked: "I think someone's putting something in his metamucil."

"He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she?"

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

posted by mothershock at 3:05 PM on September 24, 2008 [21 favorites]


John McCain working on the economy? Didn't we already have that when he was helping to fuck it up?
posted by longsleeves at 3:06 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


He's taking his ads down because he took public financing; he has $85 million to spend and it really doesn't matter if he spends it now or in a few weeks. A lot of his ad stuff is actually from 527s and the RNC. Want to bet the RNC continues running ads?
posted by Justinian at 3:07 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


What is "the world's oldest deliberative body?" I thought that was the Althing.

Actually, it's...John McCain. ZING
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:07 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


A non-emergency meeting

"The McCain campaign's new urgency about the financial crisis didn't entirely clear his schedule this morning. My colleague Amie Parnes reports that he made it to his scheduled morning meeting with Lady Lynn de Rothschild, a Clinton backer who recently came out in support of him. All while Obama was waiting by the phone for a returned call."
posted by homunculus at 3:08 PM on September 24, 2008


Bailout stalls in Congress, plan is DOA on Monday. Short sell ban expires Oct. 2 (I think, perhaps earlier).

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't the ban be extended until a bailout plan is approved?
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 3:09 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Could there be a medical/health reason behind this?
posted by Auden at 3:10 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


“God’s sitting up on his cloud saying, “damn it... How many signs do you people need??? Vote for Obama, you morons!!”

I believe that joke ends “Why didn’t I save you? What are you talking about I sent a jeep, a boat and a helicopter?”

“I once saw an Asian stripper squat and drop a golf ball out of her rectum.”

That is bizarre, man. On a firmer lie with a low bounce like that you really want to use a lob wedge.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:10 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


I agree with everyone who is saying that Obama and McCain have no reason to head back to DC to be a parrt of the negotiations. I think we all understand that neither of them will be involved directly in those negotiations and that the Senate will not be in session as a whole.

However...

You guys are over-thinking this. Even something that simple is too nuanced for the general electorate. All they understand is this:
Big fucking financial problem. Should we give Wall Street a $700 billion bailout? Congress meets to debate it.

They don't make the distinction between Congress meeting as-a-whole as opposed to the small individual committees which are actually doing the negotiation. They don't

And now they see McCain putting his campaign on-hold in order to "do the hard work" on this problem. It doesn't matter that he's just going to be sitting in his office between photo-ops with the big players in this emergency. They just see him "doing the job the voters sent him there to do". And they will drink it like sweet, sweet Kool-Aid.

You can expect the ads.
John McCain put his dream on-hold to do the tough job of guiding us through these tough times while Barack Obama kept playing politics...

Americans just aren't deep enough to care about the details. They aren't. You may think that this is a desperate move, but you'd be wrong. This is smart, heads-up politics that is designed to show McCain as involved and Obama as disconnected or uncaring. It's a cynical roll of the dice, to be sure. If the bailout plan blows-up horribly, McCain will be standing at ground zero. However, it could well be after the election before we know if the bailout is really working, and McCain could be in the Oval Office by then. And then it doesn't matter.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:11 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


By the way, in my scenario above, all those banks will fail by the latest on 2pm the day the short sell ban expires if there is no plan. Again, I'm not kidding.

To frame the historical context, the mid-late 90's saw currencies and markets around the world collapse like dominoes. Russia, Indonesia, Brazil, Argentina, Korea, Mexico, etc etc. Americans we're barely aware of it because those places are mostly hot and sticky or the TV footage of grannies clutching funny-colored money was grainy and fuzzy. So meh.

But now it's our turn. In many ways, the market started breaking in 2000 with the dot-com crash, but went on life support after 9-11. The attack and the huge outlay of def. spending coupled with Greenspan jamming rates to almost zero put the housing market into overdrive, and gave most American's their final speculative swan song. (Most americans don't appear to have played the oil or commodities boom, but rather appear to have gotten screwed by it). So what was delayed by 9-11 is not happening to us.

I think when someone writes the book about this, it starts in 1991 with the CBO/junk bond bust, goes through the nineties to the collapse of international markets to now.

We're living the last chapter of an invisible history.
posted by Pastabagel at 3:12 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


Washington Mutual has 143 billion in FDIC insured deposits, which is three times the size of the FDIC fund.

If the FDIC runs out of money the Treasury will print more. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that there's draft legislation sitting on a shelf somewhere to cover just this emergency. Not that that's a wonderful thing in the long run, but I don't think every single WaMu account holder will just be SOL come Tuesday if this bailout doesn't happen.

And, of course, the $700 Billion will more than cover the assets of the next dozen or so banks that fail.
posted by Skorgu at 3:15 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


And as per my statement at the beginning of the thread, I'm sending some money to Obama right now.

If anyone else wants to chip in, they can help the fund-raiser of my imaginary friend, Bacon.
posted by Bookhouse at 3:17 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I don't think you appreciate the gravity of the situation.

I don't think you appreciate the subtlety of my questions about the Paulson/Bernanke plan (questions currently shared by many lawmakers in D.C., Republican and Democrat, and by many economists, Wall Street-watchers, journalists, business leaders and pundits).

Contrary to what you may think, I think some kind of plan right now is probably a good idea. However, like a lot of people, I have been troubled by what Dodd called yesterday the plan's "lack of details," and by the plan's lack of oversight. I think Paulson and Bernanke did a good job arguing why some kind of plan is urgently needed, but I think they have so far done a fairly poor job either articulating the details of that plan or allowing some elements from alternative plans being floated around Washington, D.C. to be entered into the existing plan. Bush's televised speech tonight will likely also be big on superlatives about the crisis, and short on molding a plan that includes more than just a blank check.

I don't know how many times I have to state my case about scrutinizing this plan as completely as possible. I understand what's at stake. What I do not understand is the argument that all scrutiny and questions must be thrown to the wind and the plan AS-IS must be signed post-haste. My actual argument is not far from what Dodd and Shelby are advocating, as I understand it, and I share many of the concerns Sanders and Biden and Schumer (for instance, about the size of the loan) have expressed.

For the last time I understand that the credit lines must be opened up and confidence restored. What I do not understand is why at least a few days of due diligence is a bad idea, nor why attaching at least some modicum of oversight and regulation (perhaps stipulating that more will come later) to the plan is a bad idea.
posted by ornate insect at 3:19 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


1864
1944

I haven't read full histories of either election year, but I would all but guarantee that no one called for a timeout.
posted by uri at 3:20 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


I think that it is ridiculous that two active US Senators are spending the better part of a year by not being US Senators at all.

Problem is, a few years ago someone actually tried it--insisting that the right thing was to spend time during the summer doing the job he was elected to do rather than spend all his time campaigning for a higher office.

Plan didn't work out well; the guy was Mike Dukakis.
posted by gimonca at 3:22 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


So McCain also cancelled his Letterman appearance tonight... only during the actual taping of Letterman he was just down the was doing an interview wit Katie Couric

Suffice to say Letterman got in some good mocking at McCain's expense about it.
posted by edgeways at 3:22 PM on September 24, 2008


Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want,
So tell me what you want, what you really really want,
I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want,
So tell me what you want, what you really really want,
I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna really
really really wanna overturn Roe vs. Wade.

If you wanna be my lover, you gotta get a snowmobile
Marriage is forever, babies never end
posted by stavrogin at 3:22 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


Ole Miss Official Says Debate Cancellation Would Be 'Devastating'


...to the tune of $5.5mil.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 3:22 PM on September 24, 2008


I once saw an Asian stripper squat and drop a golf ball out of her rectum.

Brings to mind the "ping pong balls" scene from Priscilla, Queen of the Desert [video | 03:15].
posted by ericb at 3:24 PM on September 24, 2008


Ole Miss Official Says Debate Cancellation Would Be 'Devastating'


...to the tune of $5.5mil.


Put it on our tab.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:26 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


What is "the world's oldest deliberative body?" I thought that was the Althing.

In fairness, Goldberg has admitted he was mistaken on that point and offered a correction.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:30 PM on September 24, 2008


"My friends, we didn't stop to have a debate when they were torturing me mercilesslyin Vietnam. We can't let external distractions cause us to lose focu...what, Sarah texted me? Oooh, look! A sideways smiley face!"
posted by jamstigator at 3:31 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


“They don't make the distinction between Congress meeting as-a-whole as opposed to the small individual committees which are actually doing the negotiation. They don't.”

They should. And they would if it was given to them straight. Your right about it being how the game is played (re: my comments on Schmidt above).

But that’s how things get so divorced from reality with the security theater and this crisis, etc.
That only works when we can afford it.

It was always my contention about “1984” that even with the supremacy of doublethink - the universe remains objective.
At some point a hurricane hits or a meteor strikes, there’s fires, floods, starvation, and people’s survivial instinct kicks in.
We’re damn smart creatures. So you’re right. For now. But don’t mistake ‘fat, dumb, and happy’ for what the human animal really is. A survior.

(Hey, I liked McCain for a while. Bit iffy on some things about him, but generally - ok. Then he got lambasted by the Republicans with the whole ‘black baby’ thing and on and on and on - and it just got sickening to the point where I’m wondering if there’s any ass he won’t kiss or crap he won’t eat to climb the ladder. The torture thing was the last straw. Oh, I don’t think he really supports torture. But the fact that he was willing to, yet again, suck it up just to get along, pretty much soured me on him as a candidate.
And that resentment carries. Other folks see it. Other folks see they were lied to by the Republican party. It’s not going to go away. Even the church folks should know better by now it’s a facade.)

So it doesn’t matter if somethings gourmet cooked if it’s rotten. I’d rather eat plain oatmeal. And most folks would too.
And they’d be pissed at some chef trying to serve them something that would make them sick no matter how pretty it is.
Just have to show ‘em is all.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:31 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


What I do not understand is why at least a few days of due diligence is a bad idea, nor why attaching at least some modicum of oversight and regulation (perhaps stipulating that more will come later) to the plan is a bad idea.

All due respect to Pastabagel's considerable grasp of and insight into the possible outcomes of inaction, but that's where I come out too. There's always the possibility to increase the debt ceiling, or in essence provide a capital extensions to bridge the gap while a workable solution needs to be hammered out. What worries me is being put over a barrel again by the administration in an effort to exploit another crisis and get something done hastily and quickly, that will again benefit or protect a tiny group of people at the expense of the rest of us again. Again. Again.

As to what McCain (or Obama, for that matter) brings to the current equation, other than representation of their home states and parties, not much. McCain's statement is craven bullshit. He's looking to capitalize on the crisis to make some easy points, but it's still pretty much of a long shot.
posted by psmealey at 3:33 PM on September 24, 2008


In related news: Laura Bush: Palin Lacks Foreign Policy Experience.
posted by ericb at 3:35 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I once saw an Asian stripper squat and drop a golf ball out of her rectum.

You've got nothing until you've been to Marilyn's A Go Go, or similar venue, in Pattaya Beach. Golf balls? Meh.
posted by jsavimbi at 3:35 PM on September 24, 2008


Newsweek:
"Some moderates may see this maneuver as further evidence of McCain's erratic, impulsive temperament. Others could interpret it as a desperate gimmick, given that McCain's isn't 'suspending' anything other than two days of debate prep. The Democratic congressional leadership won't make it easy for McCain to claim a political victory. (Harry Reid is already saying his presence 'would not be helpful.') And if the final bailout is unpopular with the public--which seems likely--McCain could be blamed. So there are significant risks involved."
posted by ericb at 3:40 PM on September 24, 2008


And as per my statement at the beginning of the thread, I'm sending some money to Obama right now.

Why not just send some Charmin' and cut out the middleman?
posted by spiderwire at 3:41 PM on September 24, 2008


Pastabagel, stop with all your hoity toity imminent economic collapse tripe. I have it on good measure the the fundamentals of our economy are strong.

just trying to make a joke about a situation that scares the bejeezus out of me... no hard feelings.
posted by clearly at 3:42 PM on September 24, 2008


“What, does McCain think the Senate will still be working at 9 p.m. Friday?” Gov. Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania said in an interview, referring to the scheduled start time of the debate. “I think this is all political — I wish McCain had shown the same concern when he didn’t show up in the Senate to vote on the extension of the renewable energy tax credit.”
posted by ornate insect at 3:43 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


Since McCain has bailed on Letterman, does that mean we get Regis instead?
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 3:43 PM on September 24, 2008


No matter how much Konnie and other paid propagandists try to sell the idea that after being the most-absentee Senator and the one whose vote the Bush Administration could automatically count on, McCain is showing responsibility by going back to work to push this power grab through Congress, the argument stinks to high heaven.

And anyone who calls MetaFilter an "Echo Chamber" is obviously stone deaf. I see Echo Chambers all over the web and the acoustics are totally different. This place has problems at time amplifying every fart in ways that fool some people into thinking it's actual content, but echoes? No way.
posted by wendell at 3:51 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Pastabagel: I don't think you appreciate the gravity of the situation.

Here's a question: If this is such a dire situation, why did the administration sit on its bailout plan for weeks and months before the plan was presented to Congress?
posted by ryoshu at 3:53 PM on September 24, 2008


And Letterman is filling the time given up by McCain with KEITH OLBERMANN. I'd call that a "Fuck you, John" response, and a highly eloquent one.

I wonder what they'll talk about?
posted by wendell at 3:53 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


So assuming Pastabagel knows what he's talking about, the building's-on-fire analogy seems to apply: the alarm is ringing, everyone can smell smoke, it's clearly not a drill. So what's a resident to do?

1. Panic (bad idea)
2. Debate whether or not it's actually that much of an emergency (bad idea)
3. Point fingers at the bastards who started it (maybe later)
4. Get out of the way and let the fire department do their job (only real option)

Awful as it sounds, America, your various elected and appointed officials are the fire department here. Here's hoping they're up to the task.
posted by philip-random at 3:54 PM on September 24, 2008


Why did the administration sit on its bailout plan for weeks and months before the plan was presented to Congress?

Because they knew better than to give anyone sufficient time to give it reasonable analysis. Duh.
posted by wendell at 3:54 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


That would free him up to... do whatever the hell he thinks he can do for the American economy on a Friday night.

I don't buy it, McCain's way too old for clubbing.
posted by mannequito at 3:54 PM on September 24, 2008


It's almost as if the Republicans are actively trying to lose this election, but nothing they do seems to stick, so they're just giving up.

And they'll probably win anyway.
posted by jnaps at 3:55 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Palin interview:
COURIC: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

PALIN: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie--that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

COURIC: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

PALIN: He's also known as the maverick though. Taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about--the need to reform government.

COURIC: I'm just going to ask you one more time, not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation?

PALIN: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 3:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [28 favorites]


Divine_Wino said: Every night HST comes to me in my dreams, splashes some Chivas on my face, ashes a Dunhill in my ear and hisses into my ear "It's... Just... Not... Fucking... Weird... Enough... Yet, Man!"

When I first read that, I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time trying to figure out why Harry S Truman would be acting that way.

/duh
posted by amyms at 3:58 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


After everything else, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Hunter S. Thompson and Harry S Truman ARE THE SAME PERSON.
posted by wendell at 4:00 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


It's almost as if the Republicans are actively trying to lose this election, but nothing they do seems to stick, so they're just giving up.

I've been saying this shit for years, and no one believed me.

The last six years have been like living on the wrong end of a Ben Stiller movie.
posted by spiderwire at 4:01 PM on September 24, 2008


After everything else, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Hunter S. Thompson and Harry S Truman ARE THE SAME PERSON.

My God, man, are you daft? You'll blow the cover of its next earthly avatar!
posted by enn at 4:02 PM on September 24, 2008


Holy shit, I just figured it out. Maybe McCain is going to drop Palin as VP and add Romney?


Then his right-wing Jebus nut base stays home.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


"I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you."

Does that work? Wow.
posted by Artw at 4:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


If I was Obama, I'd be running ads with footage of an NFL ref making the 'TO' signal, but that's just me.
posted by jonmc at 4:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


COURIC: I'm just going to ask you one more time, not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation?

PALIN: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.


Sweet merciful FUCK. Can someone just PLEASE put them out of their misery??
posted by tristeza at 4:04 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


enn, I just met this dude named Herman S. Terryton...
posted by wendell at 4:05 PM on September 24, 2008


I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.

From now on, that's my answer to everything.
posted by wendell at 4:06 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


If this is such a dire situation, why did the administration sit on its bailout plan for weeks and months

Another question: if the situation is so dire, why was the administration so initially adamant in their resistance to incorporating into the plan any of the concerns expressed by lawmakers? A person selling a burning house does not have a lot of prospects, and should be willing to put a "new house built on same lot must have fire extinguishers" clause into the contract if that's what the buyer wants.
posted by ornate insect at 4:09 PM on September 24, 2008


Just for you, jonmc.
posted by EarBucket at 4:14 PM on September 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


earbucket, have my retarded internet babies.
posted by boo_radley at 4:16 PM on September 24, 2008


just trying to make a joke about a situation that scares the bejeezus out of me... no hard feelings.

I've never lost $700. Not even in Vegas, baby. Never mind being told that I'm going to lose $700,000,000,000 no matter what I do, because all of a sudden, I'm a partner in every bank on Wall St. Without the bonus or the place in the Hamptons.

The beejeezus factor is well deserved. But don't worry though, you'll have the same amount of $$ in your bank account come next week. It's just that they won't buy as much.
posted by jsavimbi at 4:16 PM on September 24, 2008


Since McCain has bailed on Letterman...

But, he'll be available to "glad hand" Bono et al tomorrow -- before focusing on the current crisi!!!
"Mr. McCain said that after speaking at the Clinton Global Initiative in New York on Thursday, he would return to Washington to work on the bailout package."
Pussy!
posted by ericb at 4:19 PM on September 24, 2008


I got polled by the shills for Fox News (embarrassingly, I still have a landline). They didn't say it was for Fox, but as the questions kept rolling I kept thinking, "This has got to be an Republican PR company."

Dem responses, from The Hill:
“I think it's the longest Hail Mary in the history of football or Marys,” said Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who has been the House’s lead negotiator with both the Senate and the administration on the bailout package...

“They’re not mutually exclusive,” said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), the Democratic Caucus chairman, of the upcoming debate and work on the bailout. “It’s not like canceling the debate will help to resolve this.”

“That’s absurd,” said Rep. Henry Waxman (Calif.), a senior House Democrat. “Does he think because there's a financial crisis we should cancel the election?”
Meanwhile, this in CQ Politics about Obama's call to the Republican statesman, keeping in mind that McCain believes it is time to rise above petty squabbling:
But McCain spokesman Brian Rogers countered that Obama and McCain never spoke in Wednesday morning.

“Sen. Obama phoned Sen. McCain at 8:30 a.m. this morning but did not reach him. The topic of Sen. Obama’s call to Sen. McCain was never discussed. Sen. McCain was meeting with economic advisers and talking to leaders in Congress throughout the day prior to calling Senator Obama,” Rogers said.
So there *Pbbt*
posted by woodway at 4:21 PM on September 24, 2008


Since McCain has bailed on Letterman, does that mean we get Regis instead?

Nope. He gets face-time with Howie Mandel on "Deal Or No Deal."

If Howie is repulsed and refuses him an audience, next up is McCain's time with Jeff Probst on "Survivor: Gabon Gambling."
posted by ericb at 4:26 PM on September 24, 2008


Holy shit, I just figured it out. Maybe McCain is going to drop Palin as VP and add Romney?

My thought too.


I'd just like to have it on the record that I totally called this first.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:29 PM on September 24, 2008


> Just for you, jonmc.

How about ones for Delay of Game and Intentional Grounding
posted by mrzarquon at 4:29 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


mrzarquon, those are backwards.
posted by oaf at 4:33 PM on September 24, 2008


COURIC: I'm just going to ask you one more time, not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation?

PALIN: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.


Karl, Karl, why did you abandon her?
posted by elpapacito at 4:33 PM on September 24, 2008


Demand the Debate 2008
posted by neroli at 4:36 PM on September 24, 2008


Did anyone hear about the "Let's cancel Firday's debate and have it when the VP debate was scheduled" request from the McCain campaign? Makes things... a little more obvious, no?
posted by VulcanMike at 4:37 PM on September 24, 2008


I'm not going to pretend to understand why McCain is doing this...

McCain has a limited amount of money. He knows that 527s will keep spending even if he stops. He's dropping in the polls and he's learned in the past few weeks that it's too early to start putting all his money into deceitful, negative campaign ads. He takes a break. He's still dropping in the polls but when he starts spending money again he gets a bump up in the polls. That looks like a momentum shift and he can restart with the really nasty campaign ads when there's a bit less time for the media and the public to fact check them before election day.

Any of that make sense?
posted by rdr at 4:37 PM on September 24, 2008


oaf- my bad, was copy pasting, didn't check links on preview.
posted by mrzarquon at 4:38 PM on September 24, 2008


Oops. The McCain campaign accidentally sent its talking points on the debate cancellation to reporters.
posted by ericb at 4:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


JPEG image of the Talking Points.
posted by ericb at 4:40 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Look, everyone, I seriously think we should take a step back from this thread. We're wasting time posting here when we really should be focussing on the economy.
posted by twirlypen at 4:42 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


They're not good with computers! They were a POW! Yahoo hacked them!
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Divine_Wino said: Every night HST comes to me in my dreams, splashes some Chivas on my face, ashes a Dunhill in my ear and hisses into my ear "It's... Just... Not... Fucking... Weird... Enough... Yet, Man!"

When I first read that, I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time trying to figure out why Harry S Truman would be acting that way.


And I was trying to figure out when the Hubble Space Telescope became sentient.
posted by dirigibleman at 4:45 PM on September 24, 2008 [8 favorites]


Well, all of McCain's experience is showing itself now -- his experience at losing, that is. His maverickness too, totally fighting the Republicans that want him to win this election. I mean, he could come out on stage smoking a crack pipe with a black hooker on each arm, an upside down cross hanging from his neck, and syringes full of smack sticking out of his forehead...and his poll numbers might go UP at this point!
posted by jamstigator at 4:47 PM on September 24, 2008


And I was trying to figure out when the Hubble Space Telescope became sentient.

It became self-aware on August 29, 1997.
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:48 PM on September 24, 2008 [13 favorites]


This might honestly be the McCain/ Rove strategy. I hope it's not. But since when did hope matter? Dirty tricks win elections.

Step 1:
Paulsen/Bernanke in collusion with Washington draw up a bailout plan knowing full well that it it will fail politically. In fact they want it to fail.

Step 2:
McCain pulls a stunt says he's going to DC, implores Obama to follow. Obama does not take the bait.

Step 3:
Bailout fails, shit hits the fan--economy collapses completely as soon as the short sell holiday ends.

Step 4:
John McCain says: Where were you Obama, when I was in DC?

Step 5:
The end game is that the media finds a new hero--John McCain--after all he understands the economy, right?
posted by |n$eCur3 at 4:49 PM on September 24, 2008


I lurve Dave so much for being cranky I needed to bling him up.
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 4:49 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Obama's response to the suggestion of the cancellation of the debate.

Whoever recorded it was apparently so impressed by one of Obama's comments that they rewound it as Obama was still speaking, so there's a little hiccup.
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:54 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


I decided to make myself a wallpaper-sized version, so here it is if anyone wants it.
posted by EarBucket at 4:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


Wow - and yet a few threads down we have this, various people are declaring others to be overly paranoid.

It's not like the debates will really matter anyways, amiright?

Hey, two outta three - maybe we have another trifecta? People have been loosing their homes for the last 2 years - where was the bailout for individuals then?

I cannot believe the quislings here - you trust McCain? Any better than your current leaders?

...heads-in-sand, bad case of ADHD, I dunno but, wow....
posted by jkaczor at 4:58 PM on September 24, 2008


McCain doesn't want to win at this point. Or maybe it's the Republican Party that doesn't want to. They'll just get blamed for all the hideous stuff that's going to come home to roost in the next couple of years.

No one is really this inept.
posted by dilettante at 5:01 PM on September 24, 2008


Well we know where were goin
But we dont know where weve been
And we know what were knowin
But we cant say what weve seen
And were not little children
And we know what we want
And the future is certain
Give us time to work it out

Were on a bridge to nowhere
Come on inside
Takin that ride to nowhere
Well take that ride
posted by ornate insect at 5:02 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


And when the dust settles, this election will STILL come down to a couple of percentage points, plus whatever mischief Karl Rove can jigger up in Colorado.
posted by briank at 5:10 PM on September 24, 2008


Financials are sold off and shorts return, destroying Morgan Stanley. Washington Mutual fails. Washington Mutual has 143 billion in FDIC insured deposits, which is three times the size of the FDIC fund. FDIC breaks. Wachovia fails. Other national and regional banks will fail. The govt will have to pass an emergency FDIC bailout to cover all those deposits. And the fat cats on Wall Street don't have Wachovia savings accounts. Morlochs like us do.

Depositors, i.e. you and me, cannot get at our money. In other words, your ATM cards and debit cards won't work, because there's no bank account connected to it. How much cash do you have on you right now? Because you're going to live off of that until your next payday, assuming you'll have one (see below).

Do you rely on a debit card? Not anymore. No cash means you're going to go to your credit card. But with cash frozen in the system the price of what money is still free to move will skyrocket. In other words the interest rate (i.e. the price of money) will go through the roof. So the money for groceries your credit card lent you is going to accrue 30% interest.
-- pastabagel
That's absurd. My bank's not WaMu, and it has tons of money. No one except you is claiming that ATMs are going to stop working, that's just idiotic.
posted by delmoi at 5:14 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


From Forbes magazine today:

In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

posted by EarBucket at 5:15 PM on September 24, 2008 [18 favorites]


Can anyone suggest a way for those of us outside the US to access to debates? Internet streaming is fine, but I have a Mac.

And were those quotes from the Katie Couric interview for real? I read it and thought you very making it up (and very funny it was too) but now reading the comments here - that was actually for real what was said in a 'serious' interview?
posted by Megami at 5:16 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Yes, Megami. That's actually the way she talks. We're having a hard time believing it, too.
posted by EarBucket at 5:18 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I propose that the phrase Bush-League be replaced with McCain-League
posted by Mick at 5:24 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Holy cow, look at this: West Virginia. No wonder McCain wants to suspend the campaign.
posted by EarBucket at 5:27 PM on September 24, 2008


The banks must stay open or the lives of people you know and love will be ruined. Get the picture?

Pastabagel's comment is really a well-done illustration of Everything I Learned About Economics By Watching It's A Wonderful Life. (Srsly.)

Can we put mama dollar and papa dollar in the safe now, so that Clarence can get his wings?
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:32 PM on September 24, 2008


Rejoice, friends!

Not in our lifetime will we again witness farce on this level. It is a galactic event.

I had a 2004 hope once, that the curtains would rise on some anonymous stage, the lights would come on and the crowded room of equally surprised reporters and cameras would inadvertently broadcast live the sight of a surprised and drunken GWB having anal sex with Rick Santorum's dog, but even that fantasy pales to these shenanigans.

Frankly, it is nearly as improbable. I won't bore you with the list, but please, stop for a moment and consider what has happened to this hapless group, led by W and championed by John McC, and pause in humble wonder.

At this point, I so so so want to see that empty podium on TV. Oh, Fate, let it be so. (Oddly, either way will be a loser for McC; how will he even hold his head up if he does show up? I mean it seems the die is cast, no? It is beyond fixing at this point, it seems.)
posted by FauxScot at 5:32 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


COURIC: I'm just going to ask you one more time, not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation?

Katie Couric is the perkiest of them all! She will NOT be upstaged by that hussy, Campbell Brown.

Nice to see that the "I'm going to ask you one more time in plain language" meme is apparently hitting the media.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:33 PM on September 24, 2008


I also regret that David Foster Wallace is not here to really appreciate this moment.
posted by FauxScot at 5:35 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


Ladies and gentlemen, there's been too much partisan rhetoric that has torn our country apart. We cannot focus on the problems that our great nation needs to address if we're constantly bickering over who's idea was what, or if we're playing the blame game. But more than this, we cannot - as a nation - move forward while this presidential campaign is taking up so much energy, time and money from myself and my opponent, Senator Obama. This is why I am proposing suspending all campaigning. And the use of Chia Pets.

As you can see to my left, I have here on this table two Chia Pets, one in my likeness and one in the likeness of my opponent. From this day until election day, a non-partisan volunteer - preferably a veteran of the armed forces - will give both Chia Pets precisely the same amount of water every day. They will receive the same amount of sunlight. The veteran will talk to, and possibly sing to, both Chia Pets for the same length of time. On election day, an independent body of scientists will gauge which Chia Pet has grown the lushest, most robust, most healthy coat of foilage. This and this alone will determine who the next president of the United States will be.

Please, hold your questions. Let me explain. Apart from being a delightful addition to any breakfast nook, Chia Pets are non-partisan. They have no allegiance to any party, none that I'm aware of anyway, and to my knowledge have never expressed a preference with regards to policy. They don't play the Washington game. There's no razzle-dazzle. You absolutely cannot get more non-partisan than a Chia Pet, and I defy anyone to try.

Now, my opponent might use a lot of elitist, Ivy League words to describe my decision. He'll say I'm "avoiding confrontation", that I've made a "cognitive break from reality", that I'm "in desperate need of immediate and possibly involuntary psychiatric help". And that's just the sort of empty rhetoric Americans have come to expect from him. But I trust the American people will see and understand that really, at a time when this country needs us to be focusing on the nation's troubles, we simply don't have time for things like running for president, discussing policy, debating each other, worrying about what last-ditch gamble to take in order to nudge ourselves up the polls an eensy bit, who looks older and more haggered and such. Does my opponent love America enough to put his ego aside and leave the decision of presidency to the Chia Pets? I know that I am! Let's hope Obama is willing to rise to the challenge. Let's put country first! Thank you and God bless America!
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 5:35 PM on September 24, 2008 [23 favorites]


some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy..."It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

Why does this not surprise me? It's a very revealing detail.

It's easy to draw up economic doomsday scenarios (it was easy to do long before the events of past few weeks or before the falls of Lehman, AIG, Fannie/Freddie, Bear, etc), but one should always be weary of being pressured by a clever salesman into signing something before it has been vetted. That's just common sense, and in the case of the Bush team, given their history of deception, prudent.

If the Paulson/Bernanke Plan is only an emergency measure to unclog global credit, one wonders how the problems won't return in a few months time. We will hear the president's speech in an hour on this topic.

Shelby and Dodd had been pressing Paulson for some time for something more than an ad-hoc approach, as we have since the Bear Stearns collapse last spring been just loping along from crisis to crisis, bank failure to bank failure, and a more comprehensive approach was lacking.

The first draft of the plan as presented earlier this week appeared to be in essence a blank check, and required no new regulation of the financial industry, no equity for taxpayers, no help for homeowners, no new regulation on mortgage lenders, no punitive measures for Wall Street CEOs, and gave Paulson unchecked authority to do with the money as he pleased. Furthermore it specified no details whatsoever about how much toxic debt was being taken on, and nowhere listed the specific assets and asset classes (many of them complex securities to be sold at reverse auction by teetering firms we were nevertheless then told would not sell if they did not like the Paulson plan, leading some to wonder why these companies needed to be bailed out).

Yesterday in the Senate Banking Committee Paulson and Bernanke seemed ill prepared to grapple with these kinds of demands for details or other alternative suggestions and plans meant to improve the current plan. Although they admitted the total sum of $700 billion would likely not be used all at once, they steadfastly resisted the suggestion of traunches (for instance, start with $200 billion, and re-convene in January--when neither HP or BB will still be there BTW--as a way to measure the progress of the overall package).

Some seem to have misread my skepticism on the Paulson/Bernanke plan: my skepticism is only that if the administration wants its plan it should be willing to give something in return. That is reasonable and standard in all negotiations, business, political, or otherwise. I'm not at all against having a plan, but I am against not taking a little bit of time to consider and construct a reasonable plan, and not giving into pressure to just sign the first thing that comes across the desk.
posted by ornate insect at 5:37 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


THIS IS EXTRAORDINARILY PAINFUL: All we’ll say is, Sarah Palin answered one of Katie Couric’s questions tonight with this line: “I’ll try to find you some [examples] and I’ll bring them to you.” UPDATE: Video!
posted by R. Mutt at 5:38 PM on September 24, 2008


Oh, this is rich.

COURIC: If this doesn't pass, do you think there's a risk of another Great Depression?

PALIN: Unfortunately, that is the road that America may find itself on.


OK, that settles it. McCain-Palin is making Bush-Cheney look like a couple of PUNKS.

I mean, all Bush-Cheney said was that if Democrats were elected, there'd be more terrorist attacks.

McCain-Palin is saying if Democrats are elected, there'll be a war with Russia AND a Great Depression.

/me snaps fingers in air

Oh, girl did NOT just go there. Oh yes she did! Oh! Yes! She! Did!

Go Palin, Go Sarah, Go Palin, getcher freak on, Go Palin!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:38 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Can anyone suggest a way for those of us outside the US to access to debates? Internet streaming is fine, but I have a Mac.


CNN and MSNBC stream just fine on my macs (all intel machines, maybe that's why). CSpan always worked fine on my PowerPC macs, and will surely carry the debates *if* they happen.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:38 PM on September 24, 2008


Couric's interview with Palin [video | 05:39].
posted by ericb at 5:40 PM on September 24, 2008


Paulson/Bernake Plan = The Patriot Act all over again. Ram it through without any discussion or we're dooooooooommmmmeeeeddd!!!!

If your neighbor fucked up your hedges, would you lend him your hedge trimmers to fix it?
posted by afx114 at 5:49 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


“I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.’

Just like Lassie! Wow!


“McCain doesn't want to win at this point. Or maybe it's the Republican Party that doesn't want to.”

McCain: The election is getting too close. I might actually win this thing. Rick, what should I do?
Davis: You could blow off the debate.
McCain: Yeah! Screw ‘em. Fake a heart attack and go golfing or something. Hey, did I ever tell ya - I saw this Thai stripper once...
Davis: No, I mean, you should call them. Just cancel it.
McCain: What? Won’t I look like a dick?
Davis: No, no.
McCain: What if he calls me out?
Davis: Nothing will happen. Don’t worry. Just pick up the phone...
McCain: Hey, didn’t you blow off some reporters today?
Davis: What? Uh..
McCain: Yeah, weren’t you supposed to have lunch with the Christian Science Monitor people.
Davis: I had Mike go out on that.
McCain: Ah, Jeezuz John. I want to lose but I don’t want to look like a doofus. Now everyone is going to think we’re ducking the spotlight because you were working for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Davis: You want me to call Obama?
McCain: No, no. *dials* *rings, rings rings* He’s not there. *Hangs up*
*phone rings*
McCain: Hello?
Obama: Hello. *chewing*
McCain: Barack?
Obama: Yeah. *munch munch much* I star 69ed you. I never answer my phone. What’s up?
posted by Smedleyman at 5:50 PM on September 24, 2008 [29 favorites]


Couric's interview with Palin

Geez, she looks really uncomfortable there. Almost nervous. And check out the way she circles around and spits out the same talking points again when Couric presses her on the Rick Davis question. I'm pretty sure I spotted contempt on Katie's face at several points.
posted by EarBucket at 5:51 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Wowza. And on and on it goes.
posted by agregoli at 5:54 PM on September 24, 2008


I think you're confusing contempt for awesomeness.
posted by Science! at 5:54 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


"I'll tra da fand some and brang 'em to ya." Christ, that voice.
posted by ColdChef at 5:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


Looks like Obama will meet up with Bush and McCain at the White House tomorrow. From FOXNews: Bush to Push Bailout Plan in Meeting With McCain, Obama, Other Lawmakers
President Bush invited John McCain, Barack Obama and congressional leaders to the White House on Thursday to discuss his administration's proposed bailout of the financial industry and press them to back the plan.

The invitation was extended Wednesday evening, and Bush called Obama personally to ask him to the Thursday afternoon meeting, which Obama accepted, his campaign said.
posted by funkiwan at 5:56 PM on September 24, 2008


"I guess we know who'll answer that 3 AM phone call when the chips are down now, don't we?"

Yea, John McCain passes out immediately after Matlock.

Also, the early bird dinner specials start at 3 PM, so that doesn't work either.
posted by clearly at 5:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


The verdict? MCCAIN EPIC FAIL.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


ornate insect, do you have some information that Ben Bernanke is going to retire before his term is up? The Fed chairman isn't a cabinet position that ends when this administration ends, and Henry Paulson most certainly could still be in the cabinet depending on this election's outcome.
posted by Eekacat at 5:58 PM on September 24, 2008


No grapefruitmoon, his fear-mongering is based on talking to his friends. Who work in finance. And would like their industry to get a $700bn bump.

As Slacktivist pointed out this morning, Paulson is demanding more, with 3 pages, than the defence budget, which is hundreds of pages. In fact, you don't get $15,000 for a three-page grant application.

Unless it's an emergency, obviously.
posted by bonaldi at 6:00 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I also think that McCain could drop Palin this week. Think about it:

- He suspends his campaign. Why suspend? Why not just fly back for 24 hours or so? Why not come to DC, sit in a few hearings, have a few meetings and then go back to campaigning? Obviously there is more to this maneuvering than just demonstrate that he is still "on the job" or is "taking the lead" on this crisis...

- Additionally McCain has opted to cease running ads. Again, why? How do ads affect McCain's ability to work on the crisis? Could it be that he wants to get away from the McCain-Palin brand?

- Suspending the campaign implies that it will come to an end with the option of restarting later. Restarting how exactly? When? Doesn't this set McCain up for a re-launch?

- Palin has a host of problems. The initial enthusiasm is wearing off. She is hurting his numbers in places that matter like Colorado and Florida. The campaign is spending a lot of time and money baby sitting her and they dare not let her in front of the press... this is all wearing thin. (Also, the mention of Palin's possible affair up thread is interesting. Sure it's the National Enquirer, but recent evidence suggests they know a thing or two about exposing infidelity. And as Andrew Sullivan has pointed out, the guy she supposedly had the affair with recently filed to have his divorce records sealed - more than a year after the actual divorce... so, even if there is nothing there, there is the appearance that something is being hidden.)

- McCain has been hanging out with Romney TODAY... who by all accounts is a masterful executive, exactly the type of VP you want when the economy is on everyone's mind. I mean, why else would they be hanging out? It's not like Romney is the only "expert" McCain could go to, and rumor is the two aren't exactly good buddies...

- McCain has asked for a postponement of Friday's debate with Obama. Why? It's on Friday night - not exactly a hot time for financial policy wonkery. Is he really concerned that the debate might overshadow the crisis or vice versa? Or is he worried some internal strife might hurt his appearance? Further, the McCain camp has been clear: it's not just Friday's debate that is up the air - all the other debates may need to be rescheduled too.

So... McCain suspends his campaign and advertising, ostensibly to address the financial "crisis" - asks for an extension on the debate... Comes into DC to put on a little dog and pony show... meanwhile, Palin is quietly stuffed into the first Greyhound back to Alaska. She says that the financial crisis requires her full attention back home. Oh and also she needs to devote more time to her large and growing family. OH yeah, and the mainstream media won't leave her alone!

McCain get's his bearings over the weekend, and relaunches brand McCain-Romney on Monday. Every politico and journilist collectively shits a brick for a few days, pollsters' computers explode and a week later everyone is like Palin-who?

Bravo McCrazy. Bravo.
posted by wfrgms at 6:00 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Bush looks like a deer in the headlights.
posted by EarBucket at 6:02 PM on September 24, 2008


Managing the Bailout: He’d Do It for Nothing
posted by ornate insect at 6:04 PM on September 24, 2008


/me snaps fingers in air

Oh, girl did NOT just go there. Oh yes she did! Oh! Yes! She! Did!


lol
posted by axltea at 6:06 PM on September 24, 2008


The House has passed the stopgap bill.
posted by sadiehawkinstein at 6:06 PM on September 24, 2008


Paulson, Bernanke Put Bank Aid Ahead of Best Deal
posted by ornate insect at 6:08 PM on September 24, 2008


McCain is not going to drop Palin any more than people are going to drop that line of argument. Forget about it.
posted by cashman at 6:08 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


Wow - and yet a few threads down we have this, various people are declaring others to be overly paranoid.

Yep. I did say overly paranoid. And I think tonight's events proved it. McCain just got his ass handed to him.

Let's look at the "low-information voter," a creation of Karl Rove. According to Rove, these voters are sensitive to, shall we say, less than policy-level forces. These people look at how the candidates react to soap-opera-like scripts suggested to the media.

Let's assume Rove is 100% right and go over the events today. McCain, in a recorded statement, unilaterally announced he was pushing for a postponement of the debates and a suspension of campaigning to deal with the problems we face. He was attempting to dictate the action to Obama.

In the past Democratic candidates would do what the Republican dictated. But today, Obama did not. Obama in a live press conference said no, let's let the debate go forward. In other words, one man tried to dictate, and another said go ahead, make my day.

The result is McCain let out the joint statement Obama asked for--In other words, he let Obama dictate to him.

Think I'm wrong? Bush just gave the Trotskyist line.

The country lurched left yesterday when Cheney was handed his hat by House Republicans when he pushed for the original Paulson plan.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:10 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


By that, I mean, for the budget, not for the financial crisis... but it seems pretty rushed, too:

The text of the measure was not released until late Tuesday, and lawmakers and the White House were still poring over it as the House voted.

“We’re glad the Democrats did not extend the moratorium on [drilling], but we’re still reviewing the legislation,” said Corinne Hirsch, spokeswoman for the Office of Management and Budget.

“The simple truth is this: Very few people have any idea what’s in it,” Rep. Jerry Lewis of California, the top Republican on the House Appropriations Committee, complained. “During this time of economic uncertainty, our constituents are demanding oversight, transparency, and accountability from Wall Street. They deserve no less from Congress.”


All this and a $25 billion bailout for auto makers, aside from the financial "rescue" package.
posted by sadiehawkinstein at 6:11 PM on September 24, 2008


Stop rubbing the microphone, dumb ass!
posted by cashman at 6:11 PM on September 24, 2008


I know I usually just babble about 500 words on this shit but I am honestly overwhelmed. This has all really gone beyond farce now.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:12 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


He's explaining what the frickin' FDIC is?
posted by sadiehawkinstein at 6:14 PM on September 24, 2008


Huh. Apropos of nothing, I was just playing with the electoral map, and I realized that if Obama holds the Kerry states, plus Virginia, Iowa, Colorado, and New Mexico, there'll be an hour or so before the polls close on the west coast where it's clear he's going to win, but the networks will have to pretend to wait for the numbers to come in from California to call it. That should be entertaining.
posted by EarBucket at 6:15 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Video of Letterman Ripping Into McCain [09:11] -- posted two hours before East Coast screening.
posted by ericb at 6:17 PM on September 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


what the fuck is bill clinton doing on cnn right now?
posted by snofoam at 6:18 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


um, okay, that wasn't so helpful. why is he pretending the taxpayers are going to make money off the paulson plan?
posted by snofoam at 6:19 PM on September 24, 2008


Errr, there are OTHER congress-kritters who can screw things up just as well as the Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama. Its not like they are SO darn important that without McCain/Obama the right job won't happen.

Not to mention both can ask their party members to represent them.

Meanwhile A bill to get rid of the Federal Reserve - just so we have all kindsa options on the table.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:19 PM on September 24, 2008


One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that doesn't McCain's decision to suspend his campaign to "deal" with this increase the sense of panic people might have about the situation?
posted by drezdn at 6:19 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


McCain is acting very presidential. His country needs him and he is responding. And, by tghe way, did he tell you about being a POW? If you check his attendance records, this may well be the first time ion ages he has been back to Congress. I wonder which of his 13 cars he will drive there?
posted by Postroad at 6:22 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


And as Andrew Sullivan has pointed out, the guy she supposedly had the affair with recently filed to have his divorce records sealed - more than a year after the actual divorce... so, even if there is nothing there, there is the appearance that something is being hidden.

That was a different dude (or, second dude, if you will). He just wanted his privacy maintained...and failed to get it.
posted by graventy at 6:25 PM on September 24, 2008


He's explaining what the frickin' FDIC is?

As my wife was just pointing out. He always sounds like a tenth grade student delivering an oral report he didn't want to do.

I don't generally watch, but this time it was important enough I was hoping for some reason to think this wasn't just another big grab. Color me unconvinced. I'm sticking with supporting Bernie.

There is nothing wrong with a sense of urgency, but I have seen nothing to convince me of a need to rush. Maintain the current short-sell provisions if necessary, but no one has convinced me of the bogey man in the financial closet yet.
posted by meinvt at 6:26 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


As an aside: Intrade has Obama about 13 points over McCain and rising, and McCain has dropped like a stone on RCP to a spread of about 3.5 points at the time of this posting.

I wish I knew a fitting sports analogy for this. All I can think of is a hyperextended leg.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:32 PM on September 24, 2008


Bush looks like a deer in the headlights.

He always does. Don't let it fool you. We're the deer. He's the fucking headlight.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:33 PM on September 24, 2008 [20 favorites]


Jon Stewart's boner must be threatening to rip a hole in space-time.
posted by boo_radley at 6:34 PM on September 24, 2008 [32 favorites]


!!!

A senior campaign official says that McCain will NOT debate -- no matter what -- if Congress hasn't reached an agreement on a bailout package.

The aide did not know whether Gov. Palin would attend Oct. 2's vice presidential debate if Congress, by that point, still hasn't reached a deal.


what

WHAT

SHE IS A GOVERNOR

WHY

NO

WHAT

WHY DO YOU DO THIS THING MY MIND IS BROKE
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:36 PM on September 24, 2008 [22 favorites]


Every time I peek into a political thread around here, I actually come out wishing I were a Republican. It's the oddest feeling.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 6:37 PM on September 24, 2008


I wish I knew a fitting sports analogy for this.

*cough*
posted by cog_nate at 6:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [8 favorites]


Oh, this is all very exciting.

I wish I had more confidence in the approximately 50% of Americans (who vote, at least), though. I love that Obama's continuing to operate based on a trust in the intelligence of the American people, I really do: I just hope he's right.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Financials are sold off and shorts return, destroying Morgan Stanley. Washington Mutual fails. Washington Mutual has 143 billion in FDIC insured deposits, which is three times the size of the FDIC fund. FDIC breaks. Wachovia fails. Other national and regional banks will fail. The govt will have to pass an emergency FDIC bailout to cover all those deposits. And the fat cats on Wall Street don't have Wachovia savings accounts. Morlochs like us do.

Pastabagel's scenario is more or less accurate, but the problem is that the Paulson "plan" doesn't help it much - that "plan" is to use the $700 billion to buy worthless debt instruments nobody will ever want to buy at massively inflated prices to "revalue" them, essentially creating solvency via government fiat.

Problem: $700 billion isn't enough to do this. It isn't nearly enough. We're talking about trillions of dollars of debt instruments, and once some of them start to fail (and once the feds run out of money, they will), the dominoes start falling all over again. It essentially only postpones Pastabagel's scenario by a couple of months, and with luck maybe smooths out the collapse - which is why I tend to think the conspiracy theorists who think Paulsen and Bernanke tried to push an obviously crap plan down America's collective throat on purpose to give McCain the election need to relax - their obvious aim was to sabotage an inevitable Obama presidency.

The problem with "too big to fail" is that sometimes it becomes "too big to stop failing." In such instances, it's better to let it fail and use that money instead to mitigate the effects of failure.
posted by mightygodking at 6:41 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


*cough*

Heh. Only imagine what would happen if the other team, the refs, and the crowd ignored the call, and just kept playing.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:42 PM on September 24, 2008


Indeed, mightygodking. 700B is a lot of unemployment insurance.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:44 PM on September 24, 2008


WHAT

SHE IS A GOVERNOR


You Eastern elites, always knocking the great state of Alaska! You said she has no foreign policy experience — but she can see Russia from there! And now you're claiming that she has no role to play in the salvaging of our economy? Come now. Don't you know what they have in Alaska?

GOLD. That's what. And I expect tomorrow we'll see Governor Palin out there in the streambeds personally sifting for the gold to replenish the vaults at Fort Knox and bail out our troubled financial sector. Or maybe even to return our nation to the gold standard singlehandedly! Because that's just the kind of hands-on pragmatic everywoman she is. Beat that, Ron Paul!
posted by enn at 6:49 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Can anyone suggest a way for those of us outside the US to access to debates?

In Australia, SBS is broadcasting the debates. Assuming they happen, of course. I look forward to tuning in to a couple of hours of their delightful test pattern and whatever world music CD they're pushing that week.
posted by plant at 6:49 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I love that Obama's continuing to operate based on a trust in the intelligence of the American people, I really do: I just hope he's right.

I think that sometimes. Then I get up in the morning, go out to walk the dogs, and see the several "Another FAMILY for McCain" signs arrayed in my neighborhood. Then I figuratively find the nearest large tree and bash my forehead against the trunk until I give myself a subdural hematoma. Just another day in Paradise, man.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:50 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I love that Obama's continuing to operate based on a trust in the intelligence of the American people

It terrifies the ever-living fuck out of me.
posted by Cyrano at 6:52 PM on September 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


wow, david letterman just ripped into mccain hard; he was seriously ticked off.

I think what pissed dave off the most was that mccain lied to him.

Letterman says that mccain called him personally and said he couldnt do the show because he was flying to washington to work on the economy.

Then half way through the show dave puts up a live feed from the cbs news room of mccain getting his makeup done for a catie couric interview.

Also, putting on Keith Olberman instead was an obivous middle finger to the McCain Campaign.
posted by Merik at 6:55 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


So McCain's clueless aids now claim they'll be bartering for the debates?!

Seriously... eliminate him.
posted by odinsdream at 6:55 PM on September 24, 2008


Headline on FARK:

Frail old man runs from African American asking for change
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [50 favorites]


Good lord, that letterman clip is gold. I'd stopped watching him years ago, though I'd watched him almost every night for the first ten years or so. Has he gotten interesting again?
posted by the bricabrac man at 6:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Can somebody tell me if Pastabagel's doomsday scenario is completely, partially, somewhat or not at all nonsense?
posted by grabbingsand at 7:06 PM on September 24, 2008


This is madness.

(MADNESS? THIS IS POLITICS)
posted by subbes at 7:13 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Can somebody tell me if Pastabagel's doomsday scenario is completely, partially, somewhat or not at all nonsense?

Talking to people about this over the past couple of years as I've studied and read and watched and waited for it all to go kablooey, I've always said that I figured there was maybe a 5% chance, worst-case-scenario, that it would end in Depression-level collapse.

Pastabagel's scenario is worst-case, but I do think that the odds of that happening in the near future (or something approaching it) are considerably better than 5% at this point.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:14 PM on September 24, 2008


Let McCain spend Friday however he wants. I personally wouldn't mind a good debate between Obama and Barr/Paul/Nader. Is it too late to have that arranged?
posted by skyper at 7:15 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I love that Obama's continuing to operate based on a trust in the intelligence of the American people

It terrifies the ever-living fuck out of me.



I know, me too. But then it also inspires the ever living fuck out of me, and then I remember that there is no other way of winning that is *worth* having. If we need to win by being lowest common denominator shock and awe culture war bullshit slanderous fucktards, by gaming elections and using brute power to corrupt the process, then we might as well give up and become Bush/Rove Republicans.

I always force myself to remember that the only victory comes from winning on the ideas and the record and the vision of liberalism, which despite its slandering by the right since Nixon, has done more for the people of the United States than conservatism has ever come close to offering.

Their god has failed. They are doomed, whether in this election or the next. The conservative and christianist ideologies are bankrupt for all but a diminishing minority of less than 25 percent of American voters (they still act like they own the fucking flag, but they're relatively marginal if they aren't the cynical pawns of the neocons or the corporatists -- the ones who still support Bush, in fact). They're dangerous people, and we've been severely dumbed down and given a corporate media that thinks "fair and balanced" means that both center right and far right perspectives need to be represented in any debate.

These are wild times, unstable times. People wake up when their asses are on the line. It's happened before. Americans are not dumb, just oblivious when times are stable. They've been unstable as hell for the past 8 years, and I think the ambien is wearing off.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:17 PM on September 24, 2008 [20 favorites]


"Well, it's a start." says my boyfriend.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:18 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


MOST Americans, I should have said. More than half, anyway.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:19 PM on September 24, 2008


Awesome, bitter-girl. I'd been thinking of posting that in an earlier bailout thread too.

That would certainly change the discourse -- if we started lynching CEOs when they laid us off.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:20 PM on September 24, 2008


That amount of money doesn't even exist.
That's like saying, "I want a kajillion bajillion dollars."
posted by lukemeister at 7:22 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I know Kos links are frowned on around here, but this is a hell of a new twist and I haven't seen it covered elsewhere . . . yet.

Pastor Muthee, the African witch hunter who blessed Sarah's run for the governorship at Wasilla Assembly of God church, is on video saying something blatantly anti-Semitic while Palin is in the audience. This guy laid hands on her and blessed her political career. Here's what he says about Jews:

It's high time that we have top Christian businessmen, businesswomen, bankers, you know, who are men and women of integrity running the economics of our nations. That's what we are waiting for. That's part and parcel of transformation. If you look at the -- you know -- if you look at the Israelites, that's how they work. And that's how they are, even today.


Hello, Florida.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:26 PM on September 24, 2008 [8 favorites]


I personally wouldn't mind a good debate between Obama and Barr/Paul/Nader. Is it too late to have that arranged?

Dr. Paul isn't running. The closest they would come to a debate is if some bill Paul was pimp'n would make it to the Senate. Paul/Obama on The Constitution would be amusing and on the topic of money (Von Mises VS whatever tag once could use to describe Obama). But really, Dr. Paul is not an option as he's not running. Barr/Nader/Baldwin would ask for a rocket ride from NASA to get there as fast as possible to the studio - so the lack of willingness to arrange such is not on their end.

Talking money/business with, oh say, an MBA grad who will be out of a job later in Jan 2009 would be a hoot too. But also - not an option unless someone is not planning on leaving that gig his daddy helped him get.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:32 PM on September 24, 2008


Just watched the Letterman clip.

You know that sound-effect from the old Bugs Bunny cartoons? The one they'd use when the airplane Bugs was in was about to smack into the ground? The screaming, rushing, wailing sound? Yeah, that sound.

That's what I hear when I see John McCain. Yep.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA---
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:36 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


It's really nice that John McCain can drop the campaign and go back to DC to fix the economy this weekend. It's sort of like taking a day off work to hang out with your kids (if you still have a job, because, you know... the economy).

And then you yell at your co-workers for not taking the day off, because they don't care about their kids.

And then you tell your boss to give you a raise.
posted by spiderwire at 7:37 PM on September 24, 2008 [8 favorites]


I too am secretly fantasizing about McCain booting Palin.
posted by ChickenringNYC at 7:42 PM on September 24, 2008


spiderwire,

Right, it's Take Your Senator To Work Day!
posted by lukemeister at 7:43 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


This election would make a smashing musical, don't you think? It's got everything!
posted by Ron Thanagar at 7:43 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I didn't read all of these comments so this may be repetitive. I saw McCain briefly on TV commenting and it was the very worst thing possible for market stability. He was emphasizing what a terrible situation it is. Catastrophic. That is so going to make investors feel comfy. If he'd spoken calmly that we would get through this, it would have been, well, presidential...
posted by sammyo at 7:43 PM on September 24, 2008


That would certainly change the discourse -- if we started lynching CEOs when they laid us off.

It's very Dead Kennedys, fourcheesemac.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:44 PM on September 24, 2008


Gawd, I love Redstate.com. They think that Palin should go and debate Obama in McCain's place on Friday. They seem to think that Palin's some sort of secret weapon that McCain's holding back until just the right time.
posted by octothorpe at 7:47 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


Stepping back from it all, dispassionately ignoring the fact that there's still a chance that these lunatics could actually win the Presidency of the United States, it's actually becoming entertaining to watch the escalation of absurdity that the McCain campaign has enacted.

It's like, every day, I think that they can't possibly get more absurd. But then by 3:00 PM, they've outdone themselves yet again.

I predict that by next week, McCain will publicly challenge Vladimir Putin to a jello wrestling contest.
posted by Flunkie at 7:48 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I'd buy that logo for a dollar!
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 7:49 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


"This election would make a smashing musical, don't you think? It's got everything!"

jibjab has got you covered: Time for Some Campaignin'
posted by clearly at 7:53 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I predict that McCain's final desperate play will be to visit Iraq and be taken as a POW. Then Sarah Palin will go in Rambo-style and rescue him. If they can pull that off, I'm almost okay with them winning the election.
posted by snofoam at 7:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [19 favorites]


Can somebody tell me if Pastabagel's doomsday scenario is completely, partially, somewhat or not at all nonsense?

Count me among those voting "mostly nonsense." What I'm reading tells me that a massive credit dry-up would lead to much slower growth. Which is really bad for this insanely sick financial system we currently run on, and insanely bad for CEOs who need massive short-term growth to get their goddamn billion-dollar bonuses, but not so earth-shatteringly apocalyptic for most of us.

That's about it. A much slower increase in growth/productivity, and a possibly very serious downturn for some years. And Pastabagel nowhere offers any evidence for the claim that something must be done *immediately* about this - as in, this week - or we're fucked and all eating out of garbage cans for the next 20 years.

Bottom line is pretty damn clear: Slow down, tell the world markets we're dealing with it and will have something by year's end but want to do it right, and then get to work. No RUSHNOWTODAYONLY bullshit. Because that's what it is - pure bullshit.

Frail old man runs from African American asking for change

*spits potato chips at screen*

posted by mediareport at 7:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I haven't read all 400+ comments and maybe its already been said a thousand times over but jeeze, McCain sure is one cynical prick. First Palin, now this shit? Fuck him and fuck his campaign with Steve Schmidt's bald head. There's my contribution to the rational discourse.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 7:58 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


I wager that by Saturday McCain replaces Palin with Bush and hires Cheney to replace Davis.
posted by odinsdream at 8:02 PM on September 24, 2008


Ledbetter ‘Strongly Offended’ By McCain’s Statement That Women Need ‘More Education,’ Not Equal Pay
posted by homunculus at 8:03 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


This isn't a desperate Hail Mary. More of a sneaky trick play. Think about it this way: what does Obama have to gain from sticking it out and demanding that the debates go on as planned? The debate will be cancelled anyway, and Obama will be cheated out of one of his three opportunities to display his superiority as a public speaker. He will gain, perhaps, a small and brief pyrrhic victory and the ability to say "I told you so" on a few campaign stops. But if he plays it up too much he will be lambasted as a sore winner and, ultimately, it will be forgotten as the election cycle grinds on. McCain will have successfully dodged a debate; Obama will have lost a golden opportunity to set the rhetorical terms of the campaign; and all McCain will have lost is one opportunity to look like an idiot on national television.
posted by googly at 8:04 PM on September 24, 2008


I think that sometimes. Then I get up in the morning, go out to walk the dogs, and see the several "Another FAMILY for McCain" signs arrayed in my neighborhood. Then I figuratively find the nearest large tree and bash my forehead against the trunk until I give myself a subdural hematoma. Just another day in Paradise, man.
posted by FelliniBlank


Come to my part of MI, FelliniBlank. I don't think I've seen a McPain sign in the populous parts of Washtenaw County. Oh sure, in the xxx-urbs, more of them than 08bama, but the same people supported the incumbent sheriff in the primaries, and he got his ass handed to him countywide.

Of course, if you live in Chuck Yob/Dick DeVos country, you have my sympathies.
posted by beelzbubba at 8:04 PM on September 24, 2008


He probably couldn't get his "American Idol" make-up artist there in time. John McCain Uses Idol Makeup Artist!

And -- the $5,000 make-up artist was there today to spritz-up McCain for his interview with Katie Couric!
posted by ericb at 8:05 PM on September 24, 2008


So let me get this straight, the actual president is now considered so incompetent and ineffectual that it doesn't seem out of place for presidential candidates to step in *as though they have statutory standing to do so* on a major national crisis, rather than playing their actual elected and appointed legal roles.

Sara Palin is more of an idiot than I gave her credit for, which is quite an accomplishment, not to mention really really scary.

Am I missing anything?
posted by nax at 8:08 PM on September 24, 2008


I too am secretly fantasizing about McCain booting Palin.

Eeeeeew.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:09 PM on September 24, 2008


googly, because those last few deflections worked so well?
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:10 PM on September 24, 2008


Bank robbers laying down smoke bombs.
posted by stinkycheese at 8:10 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Wonkette analysis: John McCain to suspend campaign, with exception of some campaigning
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:22 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


I wrote to both my Senator and my Rep and expressed my opinion that, in matters of grave importance, it behooves us as a nation to make a carefully considered decision and not a fast decision.

There's a decent book out there on the art of negotiating that explains that one way for your side to come out on top is to set an artificial deadline. Indeed, if no deadline is set, it behooves you to wait until the last possible moment to spring your terms on your opponent. It makes excellent strategic sense for Paulson and Bush, knowing full well that this bailout was an inevitability, to plan for it for months and wait for the hammer to fall before springing it on us as "the only solution." They are negotiating from a place of strength.

Hopefully, our elected representatives (and our presidential nominees) will have the presence of mind to continue saying "fuck no" to any plan until the details have been carefully considered. Again, this decision is too huge to rush into.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:30 PM on September 24, 2008


snofoam: what the fuck is bill clinton doing on cnn right now? [...] um, okay, that wasn't so helpful. why is he pretending the taxpayers are going to make money off the paulson plan?

Are you seriously asking why Bill Clinton is acting like an apologist for the business class?

Seriously? Because, like, that's his thing. He's always done that.
posted by mediareport at 8:32 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


There's a decent book out there on the art of negotiating that explains that one way for your side to come out on top is to set an artificial deadline.

My wish/hope is that they'd negotiate from the perspective forwarded by Harvard's Roger Fisher, William Ury and Bruce Patton in 'Getting to Yes.'
posted by ericb at 8:35 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Jesus Christ George Bush is looking more like Barbara Bush. I think he's using her makeup.
posted by mazola at 8:36 PM on September 24, 2008


All around a hell of a night. I posted a summary to PoliticalFilter.
posted by butterstick at 8:39 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


"McCain is not going to drop Palin any more than people are going to drop that line of argument. Forget about it."

Maybe Palin will drop him.

The zeitgeist on this, man. You can almost see it. HST checked out way too early. I sometimes think of them at his funeral. Maybe Depp standing beside the little cannon. "Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man" playing. Always gets me down.

But I've been feeling more hopeful that I have in a while. And I've stopped hearing Public Enemy's "Shut 'em Down."

In fact. I've had this running through my head all day:

Got a revolution behind my eyes
We got to get up and organize

posted by Smedleyman at 8:44 PM on September 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I think he's using her makeup.

Her genetic makeup.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:46 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


That interview with Palin...wow, just...wow.

Living in Japan, I don't get kind of coverage that most Americans experience with the 24 hour news services, so I've only really seen pics of Palin and read about her on the net. But, that video...is she always like that? And people buy it?
posted by snwod at 8:49 PM on September 24, 2008


From the Clinton interview on CNN:
CLINTON: But when this is over, and after the Jewish holidays, which follow close on it, I intend to go to Florida, to Ohio, to Northeast Pennsylvania and to Nevada, at a minimum. I may do events in Arkansas, depending on what the Democratic Party does down there. And I have some fundraising for them in California and New York.

KING: Do they ask you, go here, go there?

CLINTON: Yes.

KING: All right. (INAUDIBLE). Why are you -- are you kind of feeling Jewish, that you're waiting until after the Jewish holidays?

CLINTON: No. But I think it would be -- if we're trying to win in Florida, it may be that -- you know, they think that because of who I am and where my politic base has traditionally been, they may want me to go sort of hustle up what Lawton Chiles used to call the cracker vote there.

But Senator Obama also has a big stake in doing well in the Jewish community in Florida, where Hillary did very well, and where I did very well. And I just think respecting the holidays is a good thing to do.

KING: I was just having a little fun.

CLINTON: I know.

KING: We'll be right back with Bill Clinton.

Don't go away.
The cracker vote! Wow.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:50 PM on September 24, 2008


A lot of people are suddenly asking this: what's wrong with McCain's face in this video? Watch his left eye.

Anybody else notice anything weird with McCain's left eye recently?
posted by ericb at 8:51 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


whoo boy, forget a musical, I think this election season deserves it's very own Coen Brothers film. You wouldn't even have to exaggerate Palin to any extent.
posted by edgeways at 8:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


For MeFites with a libertarian-friendly streak, this fellow from the Cato Institute pointed out in yesterday's WSJ that the "credit crunch" (and, by extension, any disastrous failure) is limited to just the areas of finance populated by Paulson and his pals:

First of all, the financial storms over the past year have -- before last week -- been largely confined to securities markets and to interbank loans among commercial and investment banks. Bank loans to commercial and industrial business, real estate and consumers continued to expand nearly every month. Commercial and industrial loans exceeded $1.5 trillion this August, up from less than $1.2 trillion a year earlier. Real-estate loans exceeded $3.6 trillion, up from less than $3.4 trillion a year ago. Consumer loans were $845 billion, up from $737 billion. Credit standards are tougher, which is surely a good thing, but interest rates for creditworthy borrowers remain low.

The ongoing slow but steady availability of bank credit helps explain the much-remarked contrast between Wall Street and Main Street -- the shaky condition of exotic financial markets compared with relatively benign statistics for industrial production, retail sales, employment and the rest of the nonhousing economy. Most people go about their business without depending on investment banks or exotic varieties of commercial paper.


You've got to sift the rest, as usual with economic libertarians, and I'm not qualified to judge his standard defense of deregulation just below, but the quote above seems verifiable enough. If it's true, then it certainly makes the notion that we're in immediate risk of a depression look pretty goddamn fucking ridiculous.
posted by mediareport at 8:56 PM on September 24, 2008 [8 favorites]


Know who I miss? Alex Reynolds. Whatever happened to that guy?

Don't do this. Seriously.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:57 PM on September 24, 2008


But, that video...is she always like that?

They've been keeping Palin under wraps, so who knows?
posted by lukemeister at 9:00 PM on September 24, 2008


But, that video...is she always like that? And people buy it?

Palin has only appeared only three times to date for "one-on-one" interviews.

First -- an interview with ABC News' Charlie Gibson (Sept. 7), another with Fox News' Sean Hannity (Sept. 17) and this evening's with CBS's Katie Couric.

Palin has yet to hold a press conference, or to appear on a Sunday morning "talking-head" program.

To mmost people it is obvious that she is "way-over-her-head" and that the McCain campaign is shielding her from legitimate inquiry, questioning by the American press and public.
posted by ericb at 9:02 PM on September 24, 2008


*Palin has only appeared only three times...*
posted by ericb at 9:07 PM on September 24, 2008


The Witch Fighter Anoints Palin
posted by homunculus at 9:11 PM on September 24, 2008


The banks must stay open or the lives of people you know and love will be ruined. Get the picture?

yeah, it would be just like when fdr closed all the banks to straighten out the financial system - they got closed, people went through the books and figured out which banks were toast, which ones were fine and which ones needed a bit of money to tide them over

and it KEPT the lives of people from getting ruined

has it ever occurred to any of the nervous nellie brigade that the worst case scenario isn't failing to do the "right thing" by the end of the week, but doing the "wrong thing" to the tune of 700 B this week and then discovering that it's not working? - then what's going to happen?

has it ever occurred to anyone that there's a risk here of seriously pissing off the american people to the point where they will look for ways to evade paying taxes to pay for this great boondoggle

oh, no - the government had better get a lot for this - equity, new rules, help for the little people, etc etc etc - because if you think the little people are willing to pay 2-3K each to bail out the wall street banks for nothing, you'd better think again - and if the next president wants to govern this country, they'd better make damn sure that the common man who's paying for it doesn't feel screwed
posted by pyramid termite at 9:12 PM on September 24, 2008 [11 favorites]


Not to mention the obvious fact that if the Government is the only entity left willing to buy these "complex instruments" (debt, shitpiles) the corollary is that NOBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD wants them.
posted by odinsdream at 9:15 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


A lot of people are suddenly asking this: what's wrong with McCain's face in this video? Watch his left eye.

Very interesting, I didnt notice this before. He has some lid lag on the left eye and the left corner of his mouth appears to droop. The forehead is also affected--if you look at the right forehead, there are wrinkles, but these don't appear on the left.

If this is new (and I haven't looked at older footage to confirm) it means he has a peripheral nerve palsy, namely the facial nerve. This is also known as Bell's Palsy. This can be transient or it can persist to a variable degree. Putting off the debate could be a way of riding out the natural course of this disorder.

The other possibility is that he had some prior damage to the facial nerve from the surgeries required to remove the cancers on his face. Again, I dont know if this is new or old.
posted by mert at 9:19 PM on September 24, 2008


A lot of people are suddenly asking this: what's wrong with McCain's face in this video?

Fucking fucker's fucked.
posted by mandal at 9:24 PM on September 24, 2008


I'm actually not surprised about this.

McCain's mantra going into November is going to be "America First". Economic problems? Forget the election and lets "work" on the Economy. Granted, theres really not much he can do, so obviously it's grandstanding, but still -- that's the image he's trying to project. "America First, Election Second".

I'd like to say that it's going to flop, but I'm not so sure. It's true that McCain has been hit hard recently, problem #1 being that most people have now realized that Palin has (roughly speaking) the political intelligence and savy of a hot dog. They don't let her speak to reporters for a reason.

But if McCain keeps up the "AMERICA AMERICA AMERICA AMERICA" battle cry while simultaneously portraying Obama as the "less American" (read: black Muslim) candidate, he might be able to eek out a victory in November. Lots of Americans are willing to have smoke blown up their asses as long as it's red, white and blue smoke and a Ten Commandments gets built in the county courthouse.

We'll have to wait and see, I guess.
posted by Avenger at 9:24 PM on September 24, 2008


Fuck waiting and seeing. I'm going to be knocking on doors this weekend armed with Miko-points.
posted by odinsdream at 9:29 PM on September 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


whoo boy, forget a musical, I think this election season deserves it's very own Coen Brothers film.

Hah, yes! Ending with McCain and Palin ridden out of town on rails.
posted by zarah at 9:29 PM on September 24, 2008


The cracker vote! Wow.

Clinton is of course talking about the hard working American employees of Nabisco® and Keebler® brand snack products.
posted by clearly at 9:30 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


The ECONOMYS been KIDNAPPED by NINJAS. Are you a BAD ENOUGH D00D to SAVE IT?!?!?!?

John McCain: "I'm BAD!"
posted by kaibutsu at 9:32 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


Watching Governor Palin stumble through that interview was painful. Couric's entire face was a mask of distaste and the tone in which she spoke to Palin was just a hair less patronizing than the one you'd use to explain to a three-year-old why they can't go down the bathtub drain. Palin looked panicky and sweaty and completely, totally unprepared.

Man, if it weren't such a crucial campaign the bizarre hilarity of it all would be awesome.
posted by winna at 9:40 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


From a comment at balloon juice about that awesome Palin interview today:

"I'm still in shock over how terrible the Palin/Couric interview was. “Train wreck” is being charitable – it was more like a train derailing on a bridge, tumbling a thousand feet into a canyon and landing on a pile of old dynamite and gas drums. And then a jumbo jet crashed into the flaming wreckage. Followed by an earthquake that caused the whole mess to slide off a cliff into the sea, where the few miraculous survivors were eaten by sharks."
posted by lattiboy at 9:44 PM on September 24, 2008 [23 favorites]


Newt [Gingritch] on Senator McCain’s Decision to Suspend His Campaign to Forge an Agreement on the Financial Crisis:

The McCain Leadership Factor

Today john McCain showed what it meant to put country first.

He put everything on the line to try to put together a bipartisan sizable economic package to replace the failed Paulson bailout package.

This is the greatest single act of responsibility ever taken by a presidential candidate and rivals President Eisenhower saying, ‘I will go to Korea.’


There's more, but I had to stop reading after that because I laughed so hard I threw up.
posted by you just lost the game at 9:51 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Palin ain't no Cheney, that much is clear. She doesn't lie or inveigle well. But I understand she's a much better shot.
posted by illiad at 9:52 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


the worst case scenario isn't failing to do the "right thing" by the end of the week, but doing the "wrong thing" to the tune of 700 B this week and then discovering that it's not working

Amen. You nailed it.
posted by ornate insect at 9:52 PM on September 24, 2008


Watching Governor Palin stumble through that interview was painful. Couric's entire face was a mask of distaste and the tone in which she spoke to Palin was just a hair less patronizing than the one you'd use to explain to a three-year-old why they can't go down the bathtub drain. Palin looked panicky and sweaty and completely, totally unprepared.

Yeah, I dunno about this. Katie Couric seemed to show obvious disdain during the interview. She's obviously upset about something, dunno if it's the way the McCain campaign has treated the media, or the promotion of an unqualified woman based on looks, but man she looked pissed. It should be easy for the right to accept the "mean media picking on our girl" line.
posted by graventy at 9:54 PM on September 24, 2008


Plan’s Basic Mystery: What’s All This Stuff Worth?
posted by ornate insect at 9:54 PM on September 24, 2008


Wow, whoever it was way upthread who said we should all be reading The Corner at NRO wasn't kidding. Here's more madness/hilarity;

The Grant Gambit [Jonah Goldberg]

From a reader:

Jonah;

I think McCain should show up for the debate looking reluctant and disheveled. He could apologize for this condition, saying he had to rush back from doing the nation’s business. He could be like Grant having to apologize to the impeccably dressed Lee at Appomattox for showing up all muddy and in an old private’s coat. There was, after all, a war that needed winning.

*snip*

Update/Correction: Several readers have politely inquired about my use of the "oldest deliberative body" line.

One friend asked, "What about the British Parliament?"

Others point to some other pretty darn old deliberative bodies.

My short answer: I don't know why they call the Senate "the world's oldest deliberative body." I just assumed it was true unthinkingly.

posted by you just lost the game at 9:59 PM on September 24, 2008


illiad: "Palin ain't no Cheney, that much is clear. She doesn't lie or inveigle well. But I understand she's a much better shot."

Has she tried shooting lawyers? I hear they're wilier than moose, but nobody wants to eat them.
posted by Dipsomaniac at 10:07 PM on September 24, 2008


from the same page:

The correct phrase is "world's greatest deliberative body."

...and I thought he was suffering from hubris before with his unthinking assumption. Who is this twat?
posted by pompomtom at 10:07 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


He just needs a few days to help Cindy get their money transferred to more secure investments overseas. They don't want to lose everything like the rest of are going to.
posted by Mr_Zero at 10:08 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


If your neighbor fucked up your hedges, would you lend him your hedge trimmers to fix it?

Fuck yeah. It's wrecked, it's wrecked. Do what you can, asshole.

However, hedge != 700 billion dollars.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:08 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Hell of a day.
posted by cortex at 10:13 PM on September 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


Goddammit, what a day to lurch from putting out one fire after another at work. I don't know if I'm more disappointed in missing OBAMA LIVE AND AWESOME this afternoon or in not getting to read this thread as it unfolded in real time.

I hereby announce a suspension of all deadline-related activity at my job in order to better spend more time on Metafilter address our economic crisis!
posted by scody at 10:19 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


"Hell of a day."

word.
posted by clearly at 10:28 PM on September 24, 2008


McCain, who said a week ago that the fundamentals of our economy are strong, now says that things are so cocked up that he has to rush back to Washington on his white horse to save the country and can't possibly spend a few hours in a key debate?

Doesn't pass the smell test OR the laugh test.

And poor Sarah Palin. She's has given three whole interviews now and something in each of them has given me dumb-chills. Her teetering "responses" to Couric's questions reminded me of that SNL skit with Perot and Stockdale in the car. The one where Perot pulls to the side of the road, lets Stockdale out and then guns the motor to leave him in the dust, so he could get another Veep.
posted by darkstar at 10:30 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Great chess move! He's outflanked Obama!!eleventy!!
(via)
Chess move? Chess Move???!!! So much for this selfless gesture being non-partisan.
posted by nudar at 10:33 PM on September 24, 2008


RE: Couric's interview with Palin [video | 05:39].

Palin spouts almost the same exact line for the followup as she did for the first question... But then she adds a little of that patented Palin Magic—trying to make it sound totally different by putting a weird-ass emphasis on the word "recused" ("RE-cused"), and then verbally italicizing the word "himself".

"Nailed it!"

posted by blueberry at 10:38 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


What's McCain gonna do do during his "suspended campaign"? I bet he needs to do a little soul searching. I can totally see him sneaking out in the Straight Talk Express and just hitting the road...

Meanwhile Sarah Palin, in attempt to prove her readiness to take the reigns in his absence will solve the financial crisis by selling the Statue of Liberty on eBay. She won't actually do this, but that'll be her story, and she'll be sticking to it.
posted by billyfleetwood at 10:51 PM on September 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


It's almost seeming like a reasonable theory that he wants to be the punchline of a joke.
posted by Flunkie at 10:51 PM on September 24, 2008


in immediate risk of a depression look pretty goddamn fucking ridiculous.

Do you know what caused the Great Depression? Too-low interest rates that fueled a credit-based economic boom that expanded the money supply in the twenties. Sound familiar?

Interest rates hit a low in mid to late 2005. 2005 marks the peak of the housing boom, i.e. the mortgage-based economic boom that inflated the money supply. But you want to know how smart Warren Buffet is? Buffet made his famous ticking bomb prediction in 2003.

What makes the 2000s different from the 20's is that (a) people are aware of the 20s, and wondering what happens when the bubble bursts, and (b) China. China coming online as a source of US imports is deflationary because of massive economies of scale and cheap labor. Those effects are deflationary enough to mask the industrial commodity price inflation that China was responsive for from 2002-2006. We don't see the inflation because the products from China can be produced so much less than the products from elsewhere that we bought in the 90's. So the effect was hidden.

But the effect was there, and the whole thing starts unwinding beginning with homeowners. Let me make it real for you. Remember Casey Serin? He buys his first investment properties in October 2005. He bought in at the top, a classic amateur move. By September 2006, he starts his blog iamfacingforeclosure.com

In 2007, the number of foreclosures is 79% higher than 2006. In March of 2007, Wall Street gets the first hint of big trouble when mortgage companies that kept the mortgages instead of selling them on start to get burned. In March we get earnings warnings from H&R Block's mortgage division, Countrywide, and the big home builders out west, among others. The market has a significant correction in mid-March. Buy summer 2007, the bubble is bursting, but we have a big problem. The bursting bubble is slowing the economy and bringing down the market, so Wall Street wants the fed to cut rates from the higher level where they've raised them to stop the foreclosures.

But Bernanke can't do this because as he knows from being the nation's foremost living expert on the economic causes of the Great Depression, he needs to shrink the money supply steadily or else it will shrink catastrophically. He's aiming for a soft landing while everyone is telling him to pull up and keep flying.

"They know nothing!" - In mid summer 2007, the credit agencies come out of a coma and realize they've rated everything AAA when its a pile of crap. They get religion, via Buffet and Vanguard's pronouncements that the rating agencies are negligent, and start to re-rate everyone's credit. The most visible thing they do is rate I-bank Bear Stearns poorly, because Bear has bought a lot of CDO's (black-box mortgage packages) that contain defaulting mortgages. Banks are stacking up over $400 billion in losses as writeoffs. Jim Cramer famously makes the statement the Fed is asleep, and that they have no idea how bad it is for the investment banks that are leveraged heavily in these things.

What I suspect Cramer knew that everyone didn't is the staggering ratio to which these banks were leveraged, well over 25:1 but my measure. A rough way to look at this on the downside is that the market contracts they are destroying money 25 times faster than the underlying asset is. The market has it's second severe correction between Aug 2 and Aug 17.

Fed caves, and cuts rates on August 18, 2007 and the market jumps and runs for about a month. But the dollar collapses. More importantly, the Fed creates three new ways to create money but in a way that does not raise rates, and importantly in a way that creates information about who owns what and which firm needs money.

In the fall, the Fed fails to cut rates again, the market drops, economic indicators show a slowing in the economy, and worse, commodity price inflation is becoming a problem. Oil, metals, gold, and food commodities run as every other asset declines in price. Experts argue over whether the commodity inflation is fundamental (peak oil, china, ethanol) or speculative (last ditch effort to make money when every other market fails) and exacerbated by a weak dollar.

Fall 2007 wave of write offs. On November 9, 2008. Merrill Lynch announces its first quarterly loss in 6 years when losses due to subprime mtge exposure reach $8 billion, $3 billion more than they expected. The market crashes immediately. Throughout the month, bank after bank, US and foreign will announce multibillion dollar first wave writeoffs. The Fed fine tunes the system to prevent the market from crashing further.

Economic data released in January 2008 and the failure of a British bank Northern Rock cause global markets to crash as it becomes clear that the US recession is underway, and the rest of the world is slowing in response. China declines more than 5% in one day. It is now clear that the financial system is failing, and that the markets are not responding to fundamentals but to a rapid depletion of credit. Merril Lynch announces a second wave of writedowns of over $12 billion, with more to come. U.S. markets crash on January 21, 2008. The fed is forced to cut rates 0.75%, which is a capitaulation. The Federal Reserve cannot control the money supply contraction, so the only hope is to restart economic activity to stop a recession.

The unwinding is underway. In Feb 2008 unemployment hits a 5-yr low. In March 2008 Bear Stearns fails, and is sold to JPMorgan in a weekend deal brokered by the Fed. Fed takes junk mortgages as collateral for a loan to JPMorgan. Bernanke famously notes that Bear Stearns is too big to fail and that its failure would have led to a catastrophic unwinding of the financial markets.

By april, gold and oil reach astronomical highs. By early september 2008, fannie mae and freddie mac are taken over the government. On September 15, 2008 Bank of America buys Merril Lynch for a 60% discount off its price a year earlier. The same day, Lehman Bros fails. The markets worldwide crash driven by brutal short selling of financials and speculation of who is next. Experts and press estimate that insurance giant AIG has "one day to make a deal" before short sellers kill the stock and the company fails. On 9/16, AIG is bailed out by the U.S. Treasury and the Fed. Washington Mutual, Wachovia, and Morgan Stanley are expected to fail by the following Monday if they do not get investment or get acquired. No deal is struck on 9/17, and the failure of Morgan is imminent. On 9/18 the UK bans short selling. The US bans short selling on 9/19, and the government announces it will essentially bail everyone else out.

The writing was on the wall since 2005 for anyone who was paying close attention. In August 2007 everyone knew there was something seriously broken in the financial system. It's been over a year. There is a metafilter post for every single one of these events.

The thing is I don't care if you believe me or not. It isn't a matter of belief. What was one esoteric financial instruments is now a clockwork mechanism with Casey Serin as the input and you on the output.

They need to pass something or we are seriously screwed. You want proof? Read everything about the crisis up to this point. You'll read about subprime, CDO's, ARMs, credit default swaps, excessive leverage, etc.

You won't read one word about hedge fund failures, mutual fund closures, or 401(k)s collapsing, because those things haven't happened yet. They are next. Hedge funds are the gear that meshes with the I-banks and the general stock market which is owned mostly by mutual funds, which in turn make up the bulk of 401(k) accounts. When the hedge funds die, the whole market will tank, and short sell bans won't help at that point.

The plan isn't to stop the bleeding, the plan for stopping the dying. We are going to bleed. That's why Bernanke didn't bother to cut rates at the last meeting - what's the point? The housing market has already seized up, and fine tuning won't help anyone. The system needs gross repairs.
posted by Pastabagel at 10:59 PM on September 24, 2008 [67 favorites]


Now this makes sense. The Democrats already have a deal. So McCain gets to grab a lot of media attention, go back to Washington meet with Obama and Bush, looking very bi-partisian, and talk about how he helped to hammer out a deal. If I were the democratic leadership I'd turn the screws on the republicans now that they're stuck in an incredibly time sensitive spot.
posted by rdr at 11:01 PM on September 24, 2008


I have an even better idea, Obama should offer to suspend his campaign, take a two week vacation in Texas, and let Biden go to DC and debate McCain.
posted by sfts2 at 11:02 PM on September 24, 2008


OK, I'll bite - so what does the individual do, pastabagel. Lord knows I'm not a rich man, but I would sorely like to keep what I got, both in my savings account and my IRA. So is the smart money on mattress-stuffing? Or keeping in mind that I've got some 30-odd years of saving ahead of me, and while this current episode will be traumatic, it will pass?
posted by fingers_of_fire at 11:16 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


It's getting close to October. Are we in for a suprise?
posted by dougzilla at 11:16 PM on September 24, 2008


The system needs gross repairs.

I could not agree more with that statement.

However, the initial, rough draft of the Paulson "plan" offered precisely zero repairs.

It was really just a request for a large sum of money, and for Paulson to have total control of how that money was used.

This lack of any specifics is why the plan is already being modified through negotions between Senators like Dodd and Shelby to include something like "repairs" (although the repairs do not yet go far or deep enough in my view: the Swedish model would make more sense, as would a a five-year, 10 percent surtax on income over $1 million a year for couples and over $500,000 for single taxpayers.).
posted by ornate insect at 11:33 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


re: pastabagel.

Most of my money sits in a credit union that didn't jump on the bad loan bandwagon. (The rest sits in a Sacramento-based credit union, which doesn't bode as well; maybe I'll give them a visit tomorrow.) But just for the fun of it, let's say what-if.

I know how to grow tomatoes (and squashes and eggplants and so on) and have a few years practice existing in a gift economy. I have no problem moving thousands of miles by bicycle, if the urge takes me. I'm not completely sure where I fit in that 'we' you referenced, re: the bleeding. Sure, change can hurt, but it hurts less if you're ready for it, if you remember that your great-grandmother lived through the worst case scenario with seven kids and a far less developed base of knowledge and sense of community than yourself.

I recommend "we" start investing in our communities instead of financial institutions. Take care of your neighbors and they will help take care of you, bankruptcies or no. Social capital cannot be extinguished by a stock market crash, nor can the knowledge we share with each other. If you're really so worried, I recommend learning a different song and dance than the one you've been watching.

There's this really cool Derrick Jensen bit where he's talking about hope. Hope is a process of making the best of having no control over one's situation. You don't 'hope' to eat a sandwich; you just go make one. Hope is the thing you have when you're on the airplane, wondering whether it will crash. So Jensen, he says, to paraphrase, fuck hope. If I'm in a situation where hope is necessary, it's time to change the way I'm living.
posted by kaibutsu at 11:36 PM on September 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


Pastabagel's scenario is worst-case, but I do think that the odds of that happening in the near future (or something approaching it) are considerably better than 5% at this point.

I'll be my usual wacko conspiracy nutjob self and point out that so far, for the last eight years or so, every disaster has generally gone worse than anyone's "worst case scenario."'
posted by rokusan at 11:51 PM on September 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


dougzilla writes "It's getting close to October. Are we in for a suprise?"

Surprise buttsecks, maybe.
posted by mullingitover at 11:57 PM on September 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


I think McCain avoiding this debate was dastardly clever. Now that people are speculating that he's "scared" of debating Obama, the bar has been raised. People will be expecting Obama to absolutely mop the floor with McCain when they finally meet and, my friends, this will not happen.

Remember the Gore/Bush debates? Or the Kerry/Bush debates? I do. And I remember people on Metafilter and elsewhere saying: "Kerry is such a master debater! He's going to master debate all over Dubya! It's gonna be awesome!"

And nothing came of it. Just like nothing will come of this debate. Republicans will think McCain was great, Democrats will think Obama was great, and since the media doesn't want to pick a side, the only story they will have is this: "Despite Obama's reputation as a great master debater, he failed to deliver a crushing blow to McCain."

The same goes for Palin. After the first Gore/Bush debate, I remember reading a NYT op-ed saying that Gore came across as "too smart." Get ready for that again. The more people laugh and denigrate Palin, the more pressure there is on Biden to do something that, in the end, he cannot do: change people's minds.
posted by Ljubljana at 12:30 AM on September 25, 2008 [5 favorites]


A little late to the party, but if we're going to toss around sports analogies (Palin = Hail Mary), I'd like to dub McCain's move here a Chris Webber Timeout.
posted by Christ, what an asshole at 12:36 AM on September 25, 2008


Now that people are speculating that he's "scared" of debating Obama, the bar has been raised

I don't see this as the main issue. McCain is putting off a primary obligation of a Presidential candidate. Presidential debates are not for political stunts, they exist to assist voters in making a more educated decision between the candidates. The topic of the first debate is 'foreign policy,' a topic he already has a fairly solid stance on. His choice to concentrate on the financial crisis, an area where he has himself stated isn't one of his strong suits, serves as a burden to the actual negotiations regarding the crisis and is a slap to the face of every voter who would like to know more about him other than the fact that he spent a good deal of time in North Vietnam.
posted by clearly at 12:41 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Pastabagel's scenario is worst-case, but I do think that the odds of that happening in the near future (or something approaching it) are considerably better than 5% at this point.

I work in the financial credit industry. I still have a job. Anybody throwing about numbers backed by the suggestion that all the currently outstanding mortgages are worthless is suspect. Not all credit is bad. The problem is, nobody knows just how bad some of these investments are, so it makes panic and perception much more volatile instruments than under normal economic conditions.

But the truth is, most people who have mortgages weren't trying to end up on the next episode of Flip My House. Most people who have mortgages also have jobs and make payments. So extend them their terms out another ten years. That would solve everything...

...except the bank will now have an extended risk, and if there's nobody to lend them money, they simply can't make the deal happen. The price of money is the problem. When a bank wants to extend more credit, it has to in turn have credit extended to it. The cost of that credit right now is through the roof, so nobody is lending to anybody else. The additional margins on LIBOR are way to high... it's like a poker game where nobody trusts anybody else, and to further aggravate the situation, nobody's doing anything. It's like someone turned off the spigots.

This mythical, magical $700B number is a guess. I'd bet hard money they'll end up on a figure about half as large to buy up the securities, which they hand over to the recently-acquired Freddie Mac-umbrella. Will it make a difference? Possibly.

The Pollyana response to Pastabagel's doomsday scenario sees Congress passing a $400B bill that covers (essentially) the pricing differential between what the speculative bubble inflated into the housing market over the past few years. Banks will be rid of the risk, and can continue lending to other banks. This will be probably all ending up being paid for by the Chinese, who frankly can afford it. And it's in their best interest to keep their little consuming-buddy all fat and happy.

Once banks start lending to each other, the faucets get turned back on (slowly) and the worst is over. Yay.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:44 AM on September 25, 2008 [4 favorites]


So is the smart money on mattress-stuffing?

Opium futures are starting to look pretty sweet about now. Hard drugs always do well in a recession.

Or a lower risk play would be EJ Gallo, as sales of Thunderbird gonna be way, way up over the next few years.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:51 AM on September 25, 2008


Holy mother of tuna! This is one fandango here!
posted by humannaire at 1:10 AM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


McCain's mantra for the past eight years has been "Straight Talk." And while adults realize this is bullshit since a) he's a politician and b) he's a Republican, he's gotten a lot of mileage out of this idea.

So why wouldn't he want to show off his manly debating skills and trounce that faggy, negroid Ivy League Obama guy? This is why I think there's something more going on here. Dumping Palin? I'd be surprised, but it could happen. Personal health issues that he needs to find a way to spin before announcing them to the public? It think this is closer to the possible mark. Triangulating with Rove and Cheney about some sort of Tehranian bombing/October Surprise? Actually, this last notion is the one that I'm thinking might be the most accurate.

And btw, I'm a dude on the internet. With an opinion. About teh politics.
posted by bardic at 1:51 AM on September 25, 2008 [3 favorites]


So why wouldn't he want to show off his manly debating skills and trounce that faggy, negroid Ivy League Obama guy?

Because he's a big girl's blouse.

Dumping Palin? I'd be surprised, but it could happen.

Too late. He's bought that cow and all the rancid milk in her festering udders.

Personal health issues that he needs to find a way to spin before announcing them to the public?


As much as loathe the toadying old bastard, I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone, especially not the sort he's likely to get (colon, prostate).

Triangulating with Rove and Cheney about some sort of Tehranian bombing/October Surprise?

bardic, shut up. You're scaring the mortal fuck out of me. Some of us live close enough to Iran that we don't likey your last scenario very much.

*hides under desk and sucks thumb*

I think they've found Bin Laden and they're trying to figure out what colour bow to sticky-tape in his beard.
posted by chuckdarwin at 2:31 AM on September 25, 2008


I remember reading a NYT op-ed saying that Gore came across as "too smart."

You know who else didn't like smart people? Seriously, when did being smart become such a liability?
posted by chuckdarwin at 2:37 AM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


Katie Couric, I am sorry I insulted your prowess. You are a marshmallow kitten... with FANGS! Mrowr!
posted by like_neon at 3:18 AM on September 25, 2008


Wow, if you can be stumped so easily by Katie "McDimples" Couric... just wow. Imagine what would happen if a real reporter was allowed to question Palin.
posted by rokusan at 3:56 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


If FOX puts Obama up by 6, does that mean he's actually up by 15%?
posted by gman at 3:57 AM on September 25, 2008


In semi-related news, The National Enquirer's headline today: SARAH PALIN LOVER REVEALED

Am I the only one getting a 404 on the N.E. site? It must be getting hit hard...or its plug has been pulled!!
posted by zardoz at 4:07 AM on September 25, 2008


Wow, if you can be stumped so easily by Katie "McDimples" Couric... just wow. Imagine what would happen if a real reporter was allowed to question Palin.

What, you mean someone like Jeremy Paxman? A man who asked the same question of Micael Howard candidate TWELVE TIMES until he got a straight answer.

Am I the only one getting a 404 on the N.E. site?

No.
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:15 AM on September 25, 2008


OMFG, I just watched that video. It's even worse live than in transcript. Seriously? People are thinking of voting for her? OMFGLOLUSA. At least Pauline Hanson never had a shot at Prime Minister.

/still stunned

posted by jacalata at 4:19 AM on September 25, 2008


OMFGLOLUSA

Dear jacalata, lesson 1 in modern American politics:

If you want to get fundamentalists (who number in their millions in the US) to vote for you, all you have to do is come out as strongly "Pro-Life". Palin doesn't support abortion in any case, even if every male in your family gang-rapes you (she has made this quote clear).

That makes her VERY attractive to nearly half of American voters... almost like Jesus with tits.

Anything else she says, has said, or will ever say is ignored.

xo - meet me at the pub in a few and I'll fill you in.
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:25 AM on September 25, 2008


I'd love to but I'm scared to leave the house in case there are American fundamentalists outside. I'm going to hole up in here with my liquor supply until Obama wins the election.
posted by jacalata at 4:31 AM on September 25, 2008


Don't worry, duck. If McCain and Palin keep postponing everything, there won't even need to be an election. If only one team shows up on game day, Americans call that a 'forfeit'.
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:54 AM on September 25, 2008


I think the debates should continue, and if McCain doesn't show I think Obama should use one of these.

It would be like Mr. Garrison and Mr. Hat, only all presidentialy. Like, I can just imagine Obama talking out of the side of his mouth in a falsetto, being all, "Well I was in a POW camp for five years and I thought lots about economics and stuff and um, that, uh, deregulation! And America first!" and the Obama will be all stentorian and shit and say stuff like, "A valid point, Senator, however, I'm proposing a $25 billion State Growth Fund to prevent state and local cuts in health, education, housing, and heating assistance or counterproductive increases in property taxes, tolls or fees. My relief plan will also include $25 billion in a Jobs and Growth Fund to prevent cutbacks in road and bridge maintenance and fund school repair - all to save more than 1 million jobs in danger of being cut."

That would fucking rule.
posted by shiu mai baby at 5:03 AM on September 25, 2008 [11 favorites]


Remember the Gore/Bush debates? Or the Kerry/Bush debates?

Oh so well. One reason I supported Obama is that I was sick of dems acting like pussies and losing as a result.

Obama knows John Kerry. John Kerry is a friend of his. He's no John Kerry. There's a big difference. Obama knows how to fucking win, and he knows how to kick ass and take names.

Stop being afraid of the GOP. Look at Obama -- he's not afraid, and that's what makes him different from our last few candidates.

He just told McCain to stick it up his ass. Can you imagine Kerry's response to any of this being "the debates are on, sorry asshole?"
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:11 AM on September 25, 2008 [12 favorites]


If FOX puts Obama up by 6, does that mean he's actually up by 15%?

Nah, FOX's polls are actually pretty decent, and 6 points looks like right about where he should be right now. Wouldn't surprise me if it's more next week, though.

Also, in the Couric video, I love the way she slows down at around 2:30 to explain to Palin that the polls show that people are looking to Obama in this crisis. She sounds like she's talking to a child.
posted by EarBucket at 5:20 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Ah, nice CNN/Time poll has Obama up 9 in Pennsylvania.

That's more like it.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:23 AM on September 25, 2008


I know that this is a stupid question, but if Johnny Mac is suspending his campaign why are they still running his spots on my local TV and why is Mitt Romney "surrogating" for him on the Today Show here in my state (every third word = John McCain). Did McLame mean that he needed to find suspenders to keep his campaign from dropping trou?
posted by beelzbubba at 5:23 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


There is probably some rational and boring explanation, but the National Enquirer website has disappeared completely. Seems like a pretty large coincidence that this happened right after they broke the "story" about Palin's lover.
posted by ymgve at 5:23 AM on September 25, 2008


So what does happen if McCain flat-out refuses to show up? Does the debate proceed, with the moderator essentially interviewing Obama for an hour?

I've been catching up on the Red State and Malkin stuff, and the level of denial is... well, abhorrent. McCain made a commitment to debate the issues in front of the public, and now he's running on the flimsy excuse that there's a crisis he did nothing to prevent in 20+ years in the senate, and after claiming a week ago that the fundamentals of the economy were "strong."

What, seriously, will it take to make people at least admit that there's something seriously wrong with the idea of McCain as president?

What if there's a... I don't know, health crisis while he's in office, and suddenly Russia invades Afghanistan in a fit of daffy ambition? Is he going to meekly ask Putin to hold off because he has to think really hard about something for a week or two?
posted by Shepherd at 5:27 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


ymgve, I'm able to get to the NE site and their Palin infidelity story just fine. And now I need a Silkwood shower.
posted by shiu mai baby at 5:27 AM on September 25, 2008


I clicked on your N.E. link & got the right landing page. Does that mean I'm now on the enemies list? Or I've moved up or sthg?
posted by beelzbubba at 5:28 AM on September 25, 2008


I can still get to the NE website, not even a lag, on computers that don't have it cached. Not that I would ever actually go there...
posted by Science! at 5:29 AM on September 25, 2008


There is probably some rational and boring explanation, but the National Enquirer website has disappeared completely. Seems like a pretty large coincidence that this happened right after they broke the "story" about Palin's lover.
posted by ymgve at 8:23 AM on September 25 [+] [!]


I'm getting in fine. I wonder though, if their site is getting (you'll pardon the phrase) pounded.
posted by anastasiav at 5:30 AM on September 25, 2008


(er, Medvedev, not Putin -- aw, who are we kidding?)
posted by Shepherd at 5:32 AM on September 25, 2008


Weird, one person I asked got the same "under construction" blank page I get, while another got the real front page like you others did. Chalking this one up to some badly configured content servers then. (I'm outside the US, that might affect things)
posted by ymgve at 5:32 AM on September 25, 2008


Yeah I'm outside the US and the site is borked for me.
posted by like_neon at 5:34 AM on September 25, 2008


While I agree that this seems like a terrible move on McCain's part, what happens if a deal is hammered out? He might not have had anything to do with it, but we all know plenty of people will be dumb enough to believe the BS his campaign will put out. HE SAVED AMERICA! I don't know, this may turn out to have been a good gamble after all. I hope not.
posted by Mavri at 5:42 AM on September 25, 2008


Same happens for me, I'm in the UK and can't access their site. Which is unfair, wtf National Enquirer?
posted by saturnine at 5:43 AM on September 25, 2008


Josh Marshall, as always, is awesome:
Perhaps this will shine an unflattering light on my psyche. But, like many of you, I have a busy schedule, with lots of work obligations and meetings. I also end up doing a decent number of panel discussions and speeches, though I try hard to keep those to a minimum. And like everyone, sometimes I get tired or overwhelmed and I wish I could get out of this or that responsibility.

Occasionally in these moments, in a perverse kind of private entertainment, I've found myself imagining what would happen if I pawned off on someone just the ballsiest, most inane excuse for flaking on some commitment. And not something that people might buy -- nothing entertaining about that -- but just something completely off the wall and nonsensical. What would people's reaction be? Speechless, laughter, tearing me limb from limb? Would they ever speak to me again?

So, let's see, I can't moderate the panel because I've been called to Washington to give a special briefing on guerilla tactics to be used against the Taliban?

Or maybe, I want to be at the meeting, but as weird as this sounds, all the bridges and tunnels out of Manhattan have been shut for the day. Some counter-terrorism thing probably. I tried renting a helicopter but they're all booked by people at the UN.

Isn't this pretty much what John McCain tried to pull today? But actually really did it? And on a national stage? He wants to cancel the debate? And maybe also Palin's debate. Are you kidding? Why not cancel the election too? And because he has to go back to DC to solve the financial crisis? Really? The topic he knows nothing about and after he's shown up less in the senate in the last two years than anyone but Tim Johnson, the guy who had the stroke? Which of my employees is going to call from home tomorrow and say they can't come to work because of the financial crisis?

One of the advantages of running a presidential campaign is that roughly half the country is deeply committed to believing or at least saying that virtually anything you do or say makes sense. And so it is here. But, look, if you were living in the real world, if you were some hotshot young executive at a Fortune 500 company trying to rise in the ranks, and you pulled some whacked crap like this, it would probably get you blackballed permanently. People would think you were either deeply unreliable or maybe just had a screw loose. And yet here he is -- is he kidding? He can't debate Barack Obama because he's got to go to Washington and save the economy? It's like the biggest 'dog at my homework' in history.
I mean this, as a very genuine question, with the desire for an honest answer: based on his actions for the last few weeks, can anyone who supports McCain- not just hates liberals, hates Obama, LURVES Sarah Palin, but actually, legitimately supports John McCain-

Can anyone of you actually tell me exactly why he wants to be president?
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 5:47 AM on September 25, 2008 [4 favorites]


OK, I'll bite - so what does the individual do, pastabagel.

You don't have to do anything, because my doomsday scenarios presume Congress does nothing. Congress is very clearly going to do something before Oct. 2, and it pretty much guaranteed that whatever they pass, Bush will sign. So doomsday will likely be averted.

But, and I say this in all seriousness, things looked really very terribly bad on Tuesday of last week, and I started pulling money out of the bank account that the debit card I do my spending comes out of. Because if I do that and the worst doesn't come to pass, then I just look like a silly goose and have to redeposit it.

By the way, just because they pass a bill now doesn't mean that after Obama takes office he can't pass another bill that changes things in this plan. Frankly, he should, because the bill is sloppy and hasty and probably goes too far in many respects and not far enough in others. So whatever they pass should be considered the emergency room. After the election, bring in the specialists to do the meticulous reconstruction work.
posted by Pastabagel at 5:54 AM on September 25, 2008


Can anyone of you actually tell me exactly why he wants to be president?
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:47 AM on September 25


The same reason as Obama, W, JFK, Clinton, Bush 41, Nixon, T. Roosevelt, F. Roosevelt, Lincoln, Jackson, and John Quincy Adams:

"I'll show you, Dad!"
posted by Pastabagel at 5:58 AM on September 25, 2008


Oh, man, that Palin interview is priceless. At 2:30 when Couric rebuts her, it reminds me of the old lady I rent a garage from, when she tells me I didn't pay last month, even when I've got a receipt in hand, in her handwriting. Just repeat, "No...no...no" and look like someone just dropped a hammer on your foot and you're trying not to holler out.
posted by notsnot at 5:59 AM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


I know that this is a stupid question, but if Johnny Mac is suspending his campaign why are they still running his spots on my local TV
Because, as has been made abundantly clear over the last several weeks, John McCain is a pathological liar.

Was this supposed to be a trick question or something?
posted by Flunkie at 6:11 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


...worth a thousand words...
posted by neroli at 6:12 AM on September 25, 2008


By the way...Rick Davis is still treasurer and corporate director of his lobbying firm.
posted by neroli at 6:19 AM on September 25, 2008


The only winning move is not to play.

Worked in War Games. Worked for Kirk in Wrath of Kahn.

Well, Kirk did play, he just cheated.

</my contribution>
posted by mazola at 6:22 AM on September 25, 2008


1864
1944

I haven't read full histories of either election year, but I would all but guarantee that no one called for a timeout.
posted by uri at 3:20 PM on September 24 [6 favorites +] [!]


Here are some details on that point. (1932 as well)
posted by neroli at 6:24 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Kirk won in Wrath of Khan by thinking in three dimensions, while Khan thought in two.

Barack Obama will win in this election by thinking in three dimensions, while John McCain thinks in fifteen, fourteen of which are not actually real.
posted by Flunkie at 6:24 AM on September 25, 2008 [5 favorites]


Awwww yeah. Rasmussen has Obama up by 2 points. In North Carolina.
posted by EarBucket at 6:30 AM on September 25, 2008


Ha ha, CNN has the stock market opening bell along side the live video of McCain's speech this morning. They should run stock market graphs alongside every politician's public addresses, in real time. For the lulz.
posted by Science! at 6:31 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


I still think Pastabagel is exaggerating wildly, and I'm not alone. There are a number of commentators, William Greider on the left to match the free market Cato guy I linked above, who note that this financial crisis is mostly limited to interbank Wall Street types, who very much don't like the idea of shrinking power, but that it's not the urgent disaster-in-waiting for the rest of us it's been painted as to get us breathing scared. Here's Greider, after wondering why Paulson isn't even *attempting* to do the hard-nosed deal-making he was known for when he was at Goldman Sachs:

The underlying power relationship in this crisis has been artfully obscured by the bailout sponsors because they decline to explain clearly what the bailout really is intended to accomplish. First, they said it was to restore calm in markets. Then they said it was the rotten assets centered in mortgage securities. But the problem is more accurately described as the great deflation of Wall Street's illusions--inflated prices, profits, deals, commissions and bonuses. You name it, they ran it up to stratospheric levels. Now the dream is dying and values are falling, but have not yet hit bottom.

To put it more concretely, the banks and investment houses have lost massive amounts of capital--a hole that is real, not psychological. Maybe $1 trillion, possibly twice that. We can't say exactly, because the banks have still not come clean and because assets in bank portfolios continue to lose value as housing prices continue to deflate.

The great capital losses mean Wall Street is sure to get smaller--a lot smaller--with fewer firms, less leveraged deals based on inadequate capital and a general retreat from its domineering role in economic life. Personally, I believe a smaller Wall Street will be good for the country, part of restoring balance to the damaged economy.

In any case, it is folly for Washington to imagine that it can--or should--simply replenish Wall Street's great loss. That essentially is what Paulson's blanket bailout attempts to do--restore conditions to "normal" by buying up the bad assets from banks at inflated prices. In other words, supply the missing capital that private lenders won't provide. Good luck with that...

The real goal for government intervention should be to manage Wall Street's inescapble downward adjustments in ways as peaceable as possible. Stabilize the shrinking financial system so it will keep the real economy going, that is, insure that credit and capital flows continue, while Wall Street is gradually cut down to normal size. There is real pain in that for everyone, but the objective is concrete and manageable...

At center stage are the big, bad players--the mega-banks and some others--who took the extreme risks and are now conveniently described as"too big to fail." If that's so, then one goal of government should be to make them get smaller, either through market forces or by lawful edict.


Again, credit does not seem to be drying up in the areas important to "the real economy." Pastabagel and those like him are buying into the notion that the finance shell game and the core economy are the same thing and the death of one will surely result in the death of the other IF THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T ACT RIGHT NOW! Bullshit. Lots of folks on both the left and right are pointing out that the distinction between the two is real, and that letting these credit default swap fucks hang - or, my view, call their bluff on giving taxpayers an equity stake - is not the end of the US economy. Hell, it might even be the start of a better one.
posted by mediareport at 6:35 AM on September 25, 2008 [6 favorites]


McCain said he suspended his campaign yesterday afternoon/evening. Liar. He's giving giving a speech rught now (started at 9:16 a.m. ET) at the Clinton Global Initiative in New York. So much for jetting off to D.C. yesterday afternoon.

BTW -- while McCain is in NYC, Congress is wrapping up a deal.
posted by ericb at 6:37 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Barney Frank: “We’re trying to rescue the economy, not the McCain campaign."
posted by ericb at 6:38 AM on September 25, 2008 [13 favorites]


ericb, I'm no McCain apologist, obvs, but in his statement yesterday McCain specifically said he'd be suspending his campaign after the Clinton event.
posted by shiu mai baby at 6:44 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


A link for my above assertion, just because this is MetaFilter.
posted by shiu mai baby at 6:46 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


ericb, I'm no McCain apologist, obvs, but in his statement yesterday McCain specifically said he'd be suspending his campaign after the Clinton event.

True, but why did he cancel his appearance on Letterman?
posted by ericb at 6:48 AM on September 25, 2008


Oh it's terrible, doomsday is coming, look, those liars Bush and McCain are urging us to PANIC and give them a blank check to bail out their buddies with a trillion dollars *WE DON'T HAVE* or everything will go to hell in a handbasket and it will ALL BE OUR FAULT for being meanies.

Fuck. That. Shit. They had this plan, and this amount, ready to roll; they don't know what they are asking for, or how much, just "a really big number."

Who bailed out New Orleans? Who bailed out 10 million uninsured little children? Who bailed out the foreclosed homeowner, or the suddenly jobless Kimberly-Clark or DHL worker?

After threatening us with terrible consequences if we didn't support the War on Terra, the phony baloney war over WMDs in Iraq that weren't there, the civil-rights-destroying Patriot Act, and all the rest, this administration has *USED UP ITS CREDIBILITY* with scare tactics. I saw Bush last night and laughed in his terrorizing face. I expect my reps to do the same. Show us the exact language, why the exact amount needed is needed, how we get paid back, how we maintain oversight, how the money will be doled out in (relatively) *small* increments as needed and especially how we can *change* this deal once President Obama and dem majorities in the house and senate are in place on Nov. 5. Do not tell me we have to commit the Obama administration to a trillion dollar boondoggle. No f'ing way.

If you lie and lie and scare and terrorize until no one believes you, then it is *your* fault if no one believes you and that finally does lead to an actual threat coming true.

This is Bush's fault, the GOP's fault, and Wall St's fault. All this "there's plenty of blame to go around" bullshit is just bullshit. As a stockholder, as a person with bank accounts, as a person with a job, I still say fuck it, bring it on. Let's wash the blood down the drain.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:50 AM on September 25, 2008 [16 favorites]


True, but why did he cancel his appearance on Letterman?


So he could get an easy ride with Katie Couric at the same time, no?
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:50 AM on September 25, 2008


True, but why did he cancel his appearance on Letterman?

Because you can't make some grandiose statement about suspending your campaign 'cause teh economy is sux0rs, and then go on to follow the Top 10 List. The Clinton Global Initiative event has some gravitas to it, plus I'm sure the McCain advisors still have this illusion of wooing the few straggling Hillary supporters, so it wouldn't have done well by them to cancel on an event with her name on it.

Anyway, it's a dumb point to quibble over, especially since God and pretty much everyone else is recognizing McCain's stunt for the, well, stunt that it is.
posted by shiu mai baby at 6:52 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


The correct phrase is "world's greatest deliberative body."

I'm pretty sure that's the Fantastic Four.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:52 AM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


I realized this morning that McCain reminds me of Dilbert's boss--he's not needed to fix the problem, it's not his job to fix the problem, and he has no idea how to fix the problem. Nonetheless, he's going elbow his way in there and spray Leadership all over it.
posted by EarBucket at 6:54 AM on September 25, 2008


As for the Couric thing... I got nothin'.
posted by shiu mai baby at 6:54 AM on September 25, 2008


When I watched Bush's speech it was amazing how if you replaced every instance of "financial crisis" with "terrorism" and "national economy" with "national security", I swear I've heard that speech before...
posted by like_neon at 6:56 AM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


So he could get an easy ride with Katie Couric at the same time, no?

More because he needed to do damage control with Katie Couric after she interviewed Sarah Palin.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 6:57 AM on September 25, 2008


So he could get an easy ride with Katie Couric at the same time

Great. Now I have to rip the top of my skull off, Sylar-style, and take at toothbrush to my frontal lobe to destroy the image of McCain givin' her one.
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:58 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


What, you mean someone like Jeremy Paxman? A man who asked the same question of Micael Howard candidate TWELVE TIMES until he got a straight answer.

My god, chuckdarwin... that is amazing on video.

How can we get interviewers over here to do that? It seems to me that it would be the obvious evolutionary response* to the "repeat the talking points" defense mechanism that pols all have now.

* Obviously more your field than mine.
posted by rokusan at 6:58 AM on September 25, 2008


I think a major reason for the McCain diversionary dog-ate-my-homework schtick is that the Rick Davis/Freddie Mac scandal was going to eat him alive. He lied right into the camera about in on tuesday night, and it was almost shocking. Today we learn that they've lied again -- this time through surrogates, including Churchy Spice her diddlydo self. Today we learn that Davis has NOT "severed" his ties with his lobbying firm at all (or "recused himself" as miss idiot said) -- HE WAS STILL AN OFFICER OF THE FIRM!

In any rational universe, this lie alone would be McCain's undoing. It was trending that way yesterday when he pulled Hail Mary out of his fat old white ass.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:00 AM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


How can we get interviewers over here to do that?

Taxpayer-funded media.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 7:02 AM on September 25, 2008 [14 favorites]


especially since God and pretty much everyone else is recognizing McCain's stunt for the, well, stunt that it is.

And Letterman's awesome takedown, doing the "real" news media's job for them, was pitchperfect, has gone totally viral, and will be the nail in McCain's campaign coffin.

Poetic justice. The lightweight entertainers -- the View, Letterman -- are carrying the ball while the the ""journalists" are trying desperately to entertain us.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:03 AM on September 25, 2008 [19 favorites]


"The Congressional Budget Office director yesterday told Congress that the proposed bailout may worsen the current financial crisis. 'Ironically, the intervention could even trigger additional failures of large institutions, because some institutions may be carrying troubled assets on their books at inflated values,' Peter Orszag said. 'Establishing clearer prices might reveal those institutions to be insolvent.'" *
posted by ericb at 7:06 AM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


And who will we blame if we spend a trillion bucks bailing out the finance boys and Wall St and the banks *still* go down the tubes? Because as I look at the numbers, I don't see a trillion being nearly enough to do more than slow down the crash.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:07 AM on September 25, 2008


Fiorina excluded from McCain’s high-profile economic meeting.
"Yesterday, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) defended his economic adviser Carly Fiorina, saying that he was 'proud of her record.'

...When...[McCain]...convened a high-profile roundtable to discuss the financial crisis with 12 economic advisers in New York yesterday, one absence was notable: Carly Fiorina."
posted by ericb at 7:08 AM on September 25, 2008


Garrison Keillor:
Mr. McCain seems willing to say anything, do anything, to get to the White House so he can go to war with Iran. If he needs to recline naked in Macy's window, he would do that, or eat live chickens, or claim to be a reformer.
When you've lost Keillor, you've lost Wobegon.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:10 AM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


Palin can't be that bad. She just can't, it's impossible. She's got to be faking it, to lower expectations and to surprise Biden doing the debates, whenever they happen. That's the only thing that makes sense, 'cause the alternative is just horrifying.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:11 AM on September 25, 2008


Wall St. f'ing Journal, Editorial Board:

Last we checked, the President of the United States was still George W. Bush, the Secretary of the Treasury was still Henry Paulson, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve was still Ben Bernanke, and Congress still had 533 members not running for President who are at least nominally competent to debate and pass legislation.

So count us as mystified by Senator John McCain's decision yesterday to suspend his campaign and call for a postponement in Friday's first Presidential debate so that he and Barack Obama can work out a consensus bill to stabilize the financial system. This is supposed to be evidence of leadership?


Epic Fail indeed.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:12 AM on September 25, 2008 [13 favorites]


How can we get interviewers over here to do that? It seems to me that it would be the obvious evolutionary response* to the "repeat the talking points" defense mechanism that pols all have now.

I think Paxman is a one-off, even here.
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:12 AM on September 25, 2008


Boston Globe editorial board:

McCain has already brought discredit upon his campaign by shielding running mate Sarah Palin from hostile questions. This impulsive new stunt makes him appear unsteady and underprepared, too. America can work through a financial crisis and handle a campaign at the same time.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:14 AM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Fiorina excluded from McCain’s high-profile economic meeting.

She said something that upset him. He gave her a proper bollocking, apparently, and demoted her.
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:14 AM on September 25, 2008


.
posted by Balisong at 7:17 AM on September 25, 2008


I've just read all of this in one go and I feel like I've been spanged in the face by a frying pan made of stupid. I'm just dazed... American elections are awesome.
posted by ninebelow at 7:20 AM on September 25, 2008 [7 favorites]


He gave her a proper bollocking, apparently,

Christ Almighty. Why is this thread turning into McCain slash? DO NOT WANT.
posted by shiu mai baby at 7:21 AM on September 25, 2008 [5 favorites]


Um. Can someone who understands economics better than I do explain why this isn't as terrifying as it sounds?

China banks told to halt lending to US banks
posted by EarBucket at 7:26 AM on September 25, 2008


Why is this thread turning into McCain slash? DO NOT WANT.

I'm so tempted to write Obama/McCain now, with Obama all dominant.

Okay, no. I can't handle the mental images.
posted by Nattie at 7:27 AM on September 25, 2008


bollocking = chewing out/dressing down... wait, that still sounds sexual.
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:33 AM on September 25, 2008


What the fuck is McCain going to do? He's not even the decider yet!
posted by scabrous at 7:39 AM on September 25, 2008


I was willing to accept the Pastabagel-style point of view on this problem all the way up until this latest McCain stunt. I still didn't think we had to hurry as much as the administration was saying but I thought the general principles behind their assertions were correct. Now I'm not so sure. They are behaving awfully suspiciously. I heard just this morning that oversight was still a point of contention. What is with this insistence on no oversight? Who the fuck do they think they are?
posted by effwerd at 7:41 AM on September 25, 2008 [4 favorites]


With apologies to Shel Silverstein.

"I cannot go to Senate today",
said grumpy old man John McCain.
"My pressure's up, my penis is down,
My first wife lost her pageant crown.

I have to buy a house, maybe a car,
Throw more of your money to the war.
I was a POW for FIVE! long years,
I need a break to drink some beers.

Sarah's troubles have made a mess,
I cannot work with all this stress.
Obama's dog ate my debate,
I have the Constitution to desecrate!

I don't feel well, there's a hurricane,
I need more money for my campaign.
I need a nap, my wrinkles hurt,
I have a country to subvert!

My heart is bad, my hair is...
What? What's that you say?
Economic downfall is on the way?
Goodbye, I have to save the USA!"

I'm not much on politics, but I had to do this. Forgive me any liberties with facts I may have taken.
posted by sephira at 7:44 AM on September 25, 2008 [34 favorites]


Oh, and how obvious is it when McCain says, Obama and he should meet with the president and then the president says later that night, Obama and McCain should meet with him. That seemed too coordinated. After seeing that report on the