Lego Matrix Trinity Help.
November 30, 2009 11:43 AM Subscribe
They actually outline in a fair amount of detail how they did each shot. They went to a lot of trouble to make the video, by the looks of things.
posted by chunking express at 11:55 AM on November 30, 2009
posted by chunking express at 11:55 AM on November 30, 2009
Oh, lord. Lego AND the Matrix? How could this not be cool?
This video took a hell of a lot of work. I tip my hat to them.
posted by neewom at 12:17 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
This video took a hell of a lot of work. I tip my hat to them.
posted by neewom at 12:17 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
The Making Of page is keen, and I was impressed by the shot-by-shot accuracy information, until I clicked on one of the images. The rabbit hole goes deeper still!
posted by filthy light thief at 12:24 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by filthy light thief at 12:24 PM on November 30, 2009
DWRoelands: "I still love Revolutions"
Hear, hear. Matrix Trilogy lovers, stand up and be recognized.
posted by Plutor at 12:28 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Hear, hear. Matrix Trilogy lovers, stand up and be recognized.
posted by Plutor at 12:28 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Matrix Trilogy lovers, stand up and be recognized.
Ah. There you both are.
posted by Electric Dragon at 12:30 PM on November 30, 2009 [29 favorites]
Ah. There you both are.
posted by Electric Dragon at 12:30 PM on November 30, 2009 [29 favorites]
Here's a short behind the scenes vid for just one segment, look at the clock, it takes them like 14 hours.
posted by Jon_Evil at 12:43 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by Jon_Evil at 12:43 PM on November 30, 2009
[this is good]
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:44 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:44 PM on November 30, 2009
At this point, I would most definitely watch an entire movie made of Lego.
posted by sjuhawk31 at 12:48 PM on November 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by sjuhawk31 at 12:48 PM on November 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Matrix Trilogy lovers, stand up and be recognized.
Standing.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:01 PM on November 30, 2009
Standing.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:01 PM on November 30, 2009
Forwarding this to my nephew now.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:02 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:02 PM on November 30, 2009
That actually makes me wonder why there hasn't been a ... Hollywood movie ... with an original script.
FTFY, movie-poster style.
Yes I'm massively oversimplifying for the sake of snark. Who are you to judge!?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:21 PM on November 30, 2009
FTFY, movie-poster style.
Yes I'm massively oversimplifying for the sake of snark. Who are you to judge!?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:21 PM on November 30, 2009
That's like four of you for each good Matrix film.
posted by cortex at 1:28 PM on November 30, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by cortex at 1:28 PM on November 30, 2009 [9 favorites]
DWRoelands: ...and I still love Revolutions.
No, the projection of "you" inside The Matrix loves Revolutions. The real "you", still trapped in a pod and plugged into the machine, thinks it's a showy, muddled film, largely incongruous with the first two. It is this paradox that has led to the creation of McG.
posted by mkultra at 1:33 PM on November 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
No, the projection of "you" inside The Matrix loves Revolutions. The real "you", still trapped in a pod and plugged into the machine, thinks it's a showy, muddled film, largely incongruous with the first two. It is this paradox that has led to the creation of McG.
posted by mkultra at 1:33 PM on November 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
When The Matrix came out, everyone loved it. The it became popular to hate it, and like so many things, people follow the trend.
I, however, still love the trilogy. Standing proudly.
posted by Malice at 1:40 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I, however, still love the trilogy. Standing proudly.
posted by Malice at 1:40 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Trev bought the foam at a local craft shop and was surprised to find that flower arrangement foam came in two different kinds: wet and dry. As it happened two old ladies were also looking for the same thing, and they probably sensed my confusion. "What do you want it for dear?"
"I am doing a stop motion Lego animation of a scene from The Matrix and I will be using the foam to hold wire bullet trails in place."
"Oh, you'll want dry then."
:)
posted by ubermuffin at 1:40 PM on November 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
"I am doing a stop motion Lego animation of a scene from The Matrix and I will be using the foam to hold wire bullet trails in place."
"Oh, you'll want dry then."
:)
posted by ubermuffin at 1:40 PM on November 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
Then it became popular to hate it, and like so many things, people follow the trend.
People hate the second to films because they are really bad when compared to the first. I don't know anyone who liked the first film, then decided they hated it at some later date. (And this, despite the fact the second two films are so blah they really should make you question your enjoyment of the first movie.)
posted by chunking express at 1:44 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
People hate the second to films because they are really bad when compared to the first. I don't know anyone who liked the first film, then decided they hated it at some later date. (And this, despite the fact the second two films are so blah they really should make you question your enjoyment of the first movie.)
posted by chunking express at 1:44 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
That said, Monica Bellucci is in the follow up films, so that's a big plus for them.
posted by chunking express at 1:45 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by chunking express at 1:45 PM on November 30, 2009
I'll stand without reservation for Reloaded. Revolutions, well, I'll raise my chin for a minute then think better of it and slump down in my chair.
The linked video is great. I've pondered doing the same thing before and it's gratifying to see the kind of amazing thing I could make if I wasn't lazy and lacking in follow-through. :-)
posted by Babblesort at 1:49 PM on November 30, 2009
The linked video is great. I've pondered doing the same thing before and it's gratifying to see the kind of amazing thing I could make if I wasn't lazy and lacking in follow-through. :-)
posted by Babblesort at 1:49 PM on November 30, 2009
The it became popular to hate it, and like so many things, people follow the trend.
I still love the first film - I watch it every time it comes on TV. The second one I am meh about and the third...well, let's not talk about that one.
posted by never used baby shoes at 1:52 PM on November 30, 2009
I still love the first film - I watch it every time it comes on TV. The second one I am meh about and the third...well, let's not talk about that one.
posted by never used baby shoes at 1:52 PM on November 30, 2009
Hear, hear. Matrix Trilogy lovers, stand up and be recognized.
So we can send the squidbots after you!
When The Matrix came out, everyone loved it. The it became popular to hate it, and like so many things, people follow the trend.
Well, yeah, plus the second movie being kind of rubbish and the third being worse. In fact mostly that.
posted by Artw at 1:59 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
So we can send the squidbots after you!
When The Matrix came out, everyone loved it. The it became popular to hate it, and like so many things, people follow the trend.
Well, yeah, plus the second movie being kind of rubbish and the third being worse. In fact mostly that.
posted by Artw at 1:59 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
So long as we're discussing the other films: I was an enormous fan of The Matrix when it first came out. It was so much better than Star Wars: Episode I: Let's Add Some More Colons. When the first teaser trailers came out for the sequels, I watched them obsessively. I had the wallpapers on my computers. I scrutinised the extras on the DVD that gave tantalising hints about what was to come.
Then I saw Reloaded. Boy did I feel like a mug.
Reloaded has some bits that are awesome, some bits that are so awful I wanted to hide behind my seat, and instead of a climax, what felt like a 3 hour long pretentious discourse about the nature of existence. I'm as fond of pretentious discourses about the nature of existence as the next MeFite, but do not believe they belong in the third act of an action movie.
Revolutions made so little sense I nearly walked out of the cinema. It was so dull it made me wish I'd brought a good book with me.
I now prefer to pretend that there is only one Matrix film. And I never get nearly as carried away with anticipating anything.
posted by Electric Dragon at 2:05 PM on November 30, 2009
Then I saw Reloaded. Boy did I feel like a mug.
Reloaded has some bits that are awesome, some bits that are so awful I wanted to hide behind my seat, and instead of a climax, what felt like a 3 hour long pretentious discourse about the nature of existence. I'm as fond of pretentious discourses about the nature of existence as the next MeFite, but do not believe they belong in the third act of an action movie.
Revolutions made so little sense I nearly walked out of the cinema. It was so dull it made me wish I'd brought a good book with me.
I now prefer to pretend that there is only one Matrix film. And I never get nearly as carried away with anticipating anything.
posted by Electric Dragon at 2:05 PM on November 30, 2009
so great. just incredible.
also, I love that the agents get the standard "bad guy from an 80s beach volleyball movie" sunglasses, whereas neo and trinity get giant lego ferragamos.
posted by shmegegge at 2:05 PM on November 30, 2009
also, I love that the agents get the standard "bad guy from an 80s beach volleyball movie" sunglasses, whereas neo and trinity get giant lego ferragamos.
posted by shmegegge at 2:05 PM on November 30, 2009
Could be worse, could be Highlander.
I know there couldn't possibly be any sequels to Highlander. Connor was already the One! The only one left! What more could they do? I mean, I guess they could pull some bullshit with aliens or something but that's just too godawfully stupid to consider.
I actually did enjoy most of the TV series, even though it also completely fucked the movie canon.
posted by kmz at 2:17 PM on November 30, 2009
I know there couldn't possibly be any sequels to Highlander. Connor was already the One! The only one left! What more could they do? I mean, I guess they could pull some bullshit with aliens or something but that's just too godawfully stupid to consider.
I actually did enjoy most of the TV series, even though it also completely fucked the movie canon.
posted by kmz at 2:17 PM on November 30, 2009
I just want to say that the GoogleAd which comes up for this post is "The Trinity Explained: Are there 3 gods or one? This explains, in easy terms." [sic]
It links to some Evangelical website. It's hilarious, really. "Yeah, you know this esoteric theological concept that brilliant Christian thinkers have struggled with and debated and even disbelieved for 2000 years? Yeah, we've got it figured out. We're that badass."
posted by Avenger at 2:17 PM on November 30, 2009
It links to some Evangelical website. It's hilarious, really. "Yeah, you know this esoteric theological concept that brilliant Christian thinkers have struggled with and debated and even disbelieved for 2000 years? Yeah, we've got it figured out. We're that badass."
posted by Avenger at 2:17 PM on November 30, 2009
hippybear: I don't know what you all are talking about. There was more than one Matrix film? The one which was released was outstanding -- original with both plot and visuals. I had heard they were making two more, but then I
[18 minutes of blank tape]
and to this day I'm glad they never went through with that plan.
(shot of Werner Herzog listening to hippybear's redacted comment on headphones)
You must never listen to this.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:24 PM on November 30, 2009 [12 favorites]
[18 minutes of blank tape]
and to this day I'm glad they never went through with that plan.
(shot of Werner Herzog listening to hippybear's redacted comment on headphones)
You must never listen to this.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:24 PM on November 30, 2009 [12 favorites]
...and to this day I'm glad they never went through with that plan.
I know what you mean. I felt the same way after Rivers Cuomo died in that car crash right after Pinkerton.
posted by Rangeboy at 2:24 PM on November 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
I know what you mean. I felt the same way after Rivers Cuomo died in that car crash right after Pinkerton.
posted by Rangeboy at 2:24 PM on November 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Trinity explained: It is three parts, but only one good.
Makes sense to me.
posted by fleacircus at 2:26 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Makes sense to me.
posted by fleacircus at 2:26 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
That actually makes me wonder why there hasn't been a massively elaborate Hollywood movie done entirely with Lego (no CGI at all except for maybe some editing and subtle light rendering) with an original script.
Well, this isn't quite what you're asking for: it's completely CGI-generated, but this Lego Batman short will knock your socks off.
It uses many of the original voice actors, including Adam West. You can tell some of them are getting very old, but it's still awesome.
posted by Malor at 2:39 PM on November 30, 2009
Well, this isn't quite what you're asking for: it's completely CGI-generated, but this Lego Batman short will knock your socks off.
It uses many of the original voice actors, including Adam West. You can tell some of them are getting very old, but it's still awesome.
posted by Malor at 2:39 PM on November 30, 2009
The Matrix sequels and then the chronologically nearby Star Wars prequels did perform the valuable service of permanently de-giddifying me. Now my gamut of anticipation runs from "I will not watch that ever under any circs." to "That may be an inoffensive pretext for popcorn consumption". All's well that ends well.
Also, this Lego Brick Toy Kinescopery thing posted at the top, that was fucking sweet.
posted by everichon at 2:42 PM on November 30, 2009
Also, this Lego Brick Toy Kinescopery thing posted at the top, that was fucking sweet.
posted by everichon at 2:42 PM on November 30, 2009
Some day you'll discover old Gerry Anderson shows...
posted by Artw at 2:48 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:48 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
The Matrix sequels and then the chronologically nearby Star Wars prequels did perform the valuable service of permanently de-giddifying me. Now my gamut of anticipation runs from "I will not watch that ever under any circs." to "That may be an inoffensive pretext for popcorn consumption". All's well that ends well.
I have to say, after Reloaded, I can't get myself to feel any anticipation for any upcoming movie. What's the point?
Though, to be honest, I did enjoy Revolutions, as well as Revenge.
posted by wet-raspberry at 3:05 PM on November 30, 2009
I have to say, after Reloaded, I can't get myself to feel any anticipation for any upcoming movie. What's the point?
Though, to be honest, I did enjoy Revolutions, as well as Revenge.
posted by wet-raspberry at 3:05 PM on November 30, 2009
The animation was darn nifty but the Lego nerd in me wonders why they didn't put hair pieces on any of the figures.
posted by Fleebnork at 3:14 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by Fleebnork at 3:14 PM on November 30, 2009
When The Matrix came out, everyone loved it. The it became popular to hate it, and like so many things, people follow the trend.
Buh? I don't know anyone who did that. Love the first one--it's a snappy little action flick with a neat (if horribly flawed) premise and some KUNG FU POW ZAP BANG BANG BANG YEAH!
Then there were the sequels. Apart from the highway car chase in the second one, it's basically all crap. Oh, and Monica Bellucci in surgical latex. Even I'd go there, Jesus.
The animation was darn nifty but the Lego nerd in me wonders why they didn't put hair pieces on any of the figures.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:05 PM on November 30, 2009
Buh? I don't know anyone who did that. Love the first one--it's a snappy little action flick with a neat (if horribly flawed) premise and some KUNG FU POW ZAP BANG BANG BANG YEAH!
Then there were the sequels. Apart from the highway car chase in the second one, it's basically all crap. Oh, and Monica Bellucci in surgical latex. Even I'd go there, Jesus.
The animation was darn nifty but the Lego nerd in me wonders why they didn't put hair pieces on any of the figures.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:05 PM on November 30, 2009
Revolutions made so little sense I nearly walked out of the cinema.
There were a number of things in both films 2 and 3 I felt the same way about during the first viewing or two. After having seen them both at least half a dozen times, I don't feel that way any more. The clues to what's going on are there. Though I agree this constitutes a weakness the first film doesn't have -- while there are also some layers to the first film, the exposition is better paced and woven in with the plot, and you're rarely left to wonder how the protagonists pulled something off in the way you are in 2 & 3.
instead of a climax, what felt like a 3 hour long pretentious discourse about the nature of existence. I'm as fond of pretentious discourses about the nature of existence as the next MeFite, but do not believe they belong in the third act of an action movie.
I'm assuming you're talking about the conversation with the Architect. The thing is, like the other monologues sprinkled throughout the movies, even when they seem like they're wandering off into a kind of disconnected discursiveness, they're actually almost 100% directly related to something that either has happened, is happening, or will happen before the end of the film. They're abstract in the sense that they invoke general issues, but they're by and large concretely related to the plot. The Architect and Neo aren't smoking pipes, chuckling, and pontificating on "Why indeed are any of us here?" or "Yes, yes, isn't choice such an interesting thing?" Neo is trying to figure out what the hell his entire journey means and what to do next if that moment isn't victory, while the Architect is trying -- no, expecting -- to orient Neo in such a way that he will accept the Machine's plans.
I also don't even know where to start with the criticism that the conversation doesn't sit well in the third act of an action movie. To start with, the mode of operation for the film was clear from the start as the first of two parts, not as a standalone. Some kind of cliffhanger ending would more naturally be expected rather than climax/resolution, and while there are some twists on this, that's what we get. But to go on, from an action perspective, the film doesn't at all stop with the meeting between the Architect and Neo -- in fact, the action from their operation to get there is ongoing and culminates in the fight with the Agents which Trinity loses and was likely to die from except for Neo's intervention, which is arguably the real action climax of the film. And I also reject the idea that the Architect/Neo conversation is anticlimactic. I didn't follow half of what was being explained on the first time through, but the most important facts were still clear: Neo had arrived at what was supposed to be the end of his journey, but something was very wrong -- the whole mythology our protagonists were living out appeared to be nothing more than a part of the antagonists' plans. Now what? That's a pretty tight punch, arguably better than the loss of a protagonist's hand and "Luke I am your father." They follow it up with just the right note: OK, Neo hasn't figured out how to save the whole world yet, in fact, he might not be able to, but he's not without choices or power and he jumps back into the continuing action and utilizes them to at least for the moment save what's personally important to him. Then the cliffhanger moment comes. Not so bad, actually. It worked for me, even if I found the whole "I can blow up sentinels with my MIND" thing a bit vexing for a while.
posted by weston at 4:08 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
There were a number of things in both films 2 and 3 I felt the same way about during the first viewing or two. After having seen them both at least half a dozen times, I don't feel that way any more. The clues to what's going on are there. Though I agree this constitutes a weakness the first film doesn't have -- while there are also some layers to the first film, the exposition is better paced and woven in with the plot, and you're rarely left to wonder how the protagonists pulled something off in the way you are in 2 & 3.
instead of a climax, what felt like a 3 hour long pretentious discourse about the nature of existence. I'm as fond of pretentious discourses about the nature of existence as the next MeFite, but do not believe they belong in the third act of an action movie.
I'm assuming you're talking about the conversation with the Architect. The thing is, like the other monologues sprinkled throughout the movies, even when they seem like they're wandering off into a kind of disconnected discursiveness, they're actually almost 100% directly related to something that either has happened, is happening, or will happen before the end of the film. They're abstract in the sense that they invoke general issues, but they're by and large concretely related to the plot. The Architect and Neo aren't smoking pipes, chuckling, and pontificating on "Why indeed are any of us here?" or "Yes, yes, isn't choice such an interesting thing?" Neo is trying to figure out what the hell his entire journey means and what to do next if that moment isn't victory, while the Architect is trying -- no, expecting -- to orient Neo in such a way that he will accept the Machine's plans.
I also don't even know where to start with the criticism that the conversation doesn't sit well in the third act of an action movie. To start with, the mode of operation for the film was clear from the start as the first of two parts, not as a standalone. Some kind of cliffhanger ending would more naturally be expected rather than climax/resolution, and while there are some twists on this, that's what we get. But to go on, from an action perspective, the film doesn't at all stop with the meeting between the Architect and Neo -- in fact, the action from their operation to get there is ongoing and culminates in the fight with the Agents which Trinity loses and was likely to die from except for Neo's intervention, which is arguably the real action climax of the film. And I also reject the idea that the Architect/Neo conversation is anticlimactic. I didn't follow half of what was being explained on the first time through, but the most important facts were still clear: Neo had arrived at what was supposed to be the end of his journey, but something was very wrong -- the whole mythology our protagonists were living out appeared to be nothing more than a part of the antagonists' plans. Now what? That's a pretty tight punch, arguably better than the loss of a protagonist's hand and "Luke I am your father." They follow it up with just the right note: OK, Neo hasn't figured out how to save the whole world yet, in fact, he might not be able to, but he's not without choices or power and he jumps back into the continuing action and utilizes them to at least for the moment save what's personally important to him. Then the cliffhanger moment comes. Not so bad, actually. It worked for me, even if I found the whole "I can blow up sentinels with my MIND" thing a bit vexing for a while.
posted by weston at 4:08 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
There was a point in reloaded where it seemed they might be on the verge of doing something interesting - Neo interacted with the real world in a way he'd only previously done in the simulated world, suggesting that the "real" might just be another layer of simulation... then they backed away from it and made him Jesus instead.
Oh, and you know that your SF franchise is fucked whenever any kind of "council" shows up. Councils are just a way of filling screentime with meandering bullcrap and getting in the way of characters doing straight forwards and obvious things. Sure, you can call it politics, but it's not, it's timewasting bollocks.
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on November 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Oh, and you know that your SF franchise is fucked whenever any kind of "council" shows up. Councils are just a way of filling screentime with meandering bullcrap and getting in the way of characters doing straight forwards and obvious things. Sure, you can call it politics, but it's not, it's timewasting bollocks.
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on November 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
It worked for me, even if I found the whole "I can blow up sentinels with my MIND" thing a bit vexing for a while.
Yeah, that was the bit. Turns out it's cos he's Jesus.
posted by Artw at 4:17 PM on November 30, 2009
Yeah, that was the bit. Turns out it's cos he's Jesus.
posted by Artw at 4:17 PM on November 30, 2009
I'm starting to really fucking hate any story that gives it's characters special mystic destinies. Special handwaving bullcrap of lazy writer more like.
posted by Artw at 4:18 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by Artw at 4:18 PM on November 30, 2009
it's a snappy little action flick with a neat (if horribly flawed) premise ...
I think that's it there. It's fun movie with an incredibly inventive visual style, witty dialog, great fight choreography and a sprinkling of cute philosophy 101 references but it doesn't make any fucking sense when you stop to think about it. I'm not sure that anyone could have successfully expanded that out into two further movies that make any sense.
posted by octothorpe at 4:34 PM on November 30, 2009
I think that's it there. It's fun movie with an incredibly inventive visual style, witty dialog, great fight choreography and a sprinkling of cute philosophy 101 references but it doesn't make any fucking sense when you stop to think about it. I'm not sure that anyone could have successfully expanded that out into two further movies that make any sense.
posted by octothorpe at 4:34 PM on November 30, 2009
The philosophy and stuff is fun, and helps move thinsg along and makes for some cool lines, and I can forgive a little handwaving over how exactly this human battery thing is supposed to make sense because it's busy zipping between high concept stuff and kung fu fights and stuff.
But in the second and third movie it doesn't fit in like that. It feels more like they are repeatedly hitting you over the head with how this is Serious Movie and everything is very Important. Which of course gets you thinking "hang on, this is all a bunch of bollocks really" and it all crumples like a collapsing souffle.
I dunno. There's people who like the boring bits of anime movies where it all slows down so the characters can give you expo-dumps and random cod-philosophy, so someone out there is going to like it
posted by Artw at 4:52 PM on November 30, 2009
But in the second and third movie it doesn't fit in like that. It feels more like they are repeatedly hitting you over the head with how this is Serious Movie and everything is very Important. Which of course gets you thinking "hang on, this is all a bunch of bollocks really" and it all crumples like a collapsing souffle.
I dunno. There's people who like the boring bits of anime movies where it all slows down so the characters can give you expo-dumps and random cod-philosophy, so someone out there is going to like it
posted by Artw at 4:52 PM on November 30, 2009
The philosophy and stuff is fun, and helps move thinsg along and makes for some cool lines, and I can forgive a little handwaving over how exactly this human battery thing is supposed to make sense because it's busy zipping between high concept stuff and kung fu fights and stuff.
The human battery thing was apparently Meddling Studio Executives in action, with the original intent of human neural network being killed as too darned complicated or whatever.
Not that that's the sole problem with the text of the film as a serious work, but it sure does explain a few things, and the sequels might have had some more interesting ground to work from if enslaved humanity were not just the power source for but the actual fundament of The Matrix. The question of unwilling agency, of a kind of complicity in the production of the simulation itself beyond just unknowingly inhabiting it: that'd be neat.
posted by cortex at 5:01 PM on November 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
The human battery thing was apparently Meddling Studio Executives in action, with the original intent of human neural network being killed as too darned complicated or whatever.
Not that that's the sole problem with the text of the film as a serious work, but it sure does explain a few things, and the sequels might have had some more interesting ground to work from if enslaved humanity were not just the power source for but the actual fundament of The Matrix. The question of unwilling agency, of a kind of complicity in the production of the simulation itself beyond just unknowingly inhabiting it: that'd be neat.
posted by cortex at 5:01 PM on November 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
Interesting. The text story Neil Gaiman did for them has the people hooked up to the matrix be processors in a neural net rather than batteries - it hadn't occurrd to me that it was a leftover from an earlier draft of the script.
posted by Artw at 5:26 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by Artw at 5:26 PM on November 30, 2009
Yeah, that was the bit. Turns out it's cos he's Jesus.
Neo's clearly been a Christ figure since his mescaline-loving friend knocks on his door in the first film, so even if that were the explanation, you can't say you weren't warned.
But I don't think that's the best explanation. The thing about stopping the sentinels... nobody would have *blinked* if there had been a Star Trek-like scene where they were all in the ship and, well, went something like this:
MORPHEUS: Link, power up the EMP.
LINK: It's no good, Captain, we don't have the power levels, they're just out of range.
MORPHEUS: Perhaps if we could redirect power from the shields?
LINK: Sir, we don't have shields, that's a different franchise.
COMMANDER DATA: Captain, perhaps if we could connect Neo back into the Matrix, he could take advantage of recent connection to The Source and find some way to hack and scramble the attacking sentinels.
MORPHEUS: But we're away from the hardline. It won't work. If only there were such a thing as wireless technology!
LINK: Actually, Captain, I've got an iPhone. There's an App for that.
COMMANDER DATA: And given the dramatically reduced demand on AT&T's network since the death of most of their customers in the war, there might even be the bandwidth for that, if we add a reverse tachyon pulse.
MORPHEUS: Link?
LINK: Ugliest hack I'll have done, but we can pull it off. We can probably attach the thing to the back of Neo's neck so he can walk around with it too.
MORPHEUS: Neo?
NEO: What if I fail?
MORPHEUS: You are the one.
NEO: This is a black iPhone, right?
LINK: Yes.
NEO: I'm in.
In other words, the idea that a connection with whatever "The Source" means to the machines could let Neo wreak havok with machines in the real world really isn't that incredible. They just didn't stop the action with the usual (but not particularly great) sci-fi convention of explaining what they're doing. We're later told that it is in fact this same connection that enables Neo. There are two problems left unelaborated on: how does he do it more or less unconsciously, and how he does it wirelessly.
The first problem is pretty easily glossed over. We've already seen that programs can change brains with the whole Smith-Bane thing, and in fact, we can infer from the conversation with the architect that part of the reason Neo is the one is that he's got code running in his head that other people don't have.
So we're left with the problem of wireless. This looks supernatural, and would have to be if Neo was Zion-born, but he wasn't. He's wired throughout his body with electronics designed to (a) collect energy from said body and (b) direct feedback into it. He's probably got a built-in antennae bigger than your cell phone. Energy? Well, if you accept the whole human battery premise, the idea that Neo can do some kind of RF interaction with real-world machines around him isn't a stretch at all, since he's a small power plant and has more of an antenna than your cell phone does.
Now, if you just couldn't accept the battery premise, I'm not sure I blame you. This is probably the most egregious bit of sciency non-science fiction in all three films, period: sentient software and seeing the future both seem much more likely to me than net-positive energy yield from humans in a vat, particularly considering the energy you're going to have to spend on simulating a small universe. But film 1 survived the premise, having some things that follow from it in films 2 & 3 don't seem like huge baggage. And hey, even if it's bad science, it's pretty awesome metaphor: a system that survives off the energy and thought of the people it imprisons. Who hasn't had the sneaking suspicion they're imprisoned in just such a way?
posted by weston at 5:54 PM on November 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Neo's clearly been a Christ figure since his mescaline-loving friend knocks on his door in the first film, so even if that were the explanation, you can't say you weren't warned.
But I don't think that's the best explanation. The thing about stopping the sentinels... nobody would have *blinked* if there had been a Star Trek-like scene where they were all in the ship and, well, went something like this:
MORPHEUS: Link, power up the EMP.
LINK: It's no good, Captain, we don't have the power levels, they're just out of range.
MORPHEUS: Perhaps if we could redirect power from the shields?
LINK: Sir, we don't have shields, that's a different franchise.
COMMANDER DATA: Captain, perhaps if we could connect Neo back into the Matrix, he could take advantage of recent connection to The Source and find some way to hack and scramble the attacking sentinels.
MORPHEUS: But we're away from the hardline. It won't work. If only there were such a thing as wireless technology!
LINK: Actually, Captain, I've got an iPhone. There's an App for that.
COMMANDER DATA: And given the dramatically reduced demand on AT&T's network since the death of most of their customers in the war, there might even be the bandwidth for that, if we add a reverse tachyon pulse.
MORPHEUS: Link?
LINK: Ugliest hack I'll have done, but we can pull it off. We can probably attach the thing to the back of Neo's neck so he can walk around with it too.
MORPHEUS: Neo?
NEO: What if I fail?
MORPHEUS: You are the one.
NEO: This is a black iPhone, right?
LINK: Yes.
NEO: I'm in.
In other words, the idea that a connection with whatever "The Source" means to the machines could let Neo wreak havok with machines in the real world really isn't that incredible. They just didn't stop the action with the usual (but not particularly great) sci-fi convention of explaining what they're doing. We're later told that it is in fact this same connection that enables Neo. There are two problems left unelaborated on: how does he do it more or less unconsciously, and how he does it wirelessly.
The first problem is pretty easily glossed over. We've already seen that programs can change brains with the whole Smith-Bane thing, and in fact, we can infer from the conversation with the architect that part of the reason Neo is the one is that he's got code running in his head that other people don't have.
So we're left with the problem of wireless. This looks supernatural, and would have to be if Neo was Zion-born, but he wasn't. He's wired throughout his body with electronics designed to (a) collect energy from said body and (b) direct feedback into it. He's probably got a built-in antennae bigger than your cell phone. Energy? Well, if you accept the whole human battery premise, the idea that Neo can do some kind of RF interaction with real-world machines around him isn't a stretch at all, since he's a small power plant and has more of an antenna than your cell phone does.
Now, if you just couldn't accept the battery premise, I'm not sure I blame you. This is probably the most egregious bit of sciency non-science fiction in all three films, period: sentient software and seeing the future both seem much more likely to me than net-positive energy yield from humans in a vat, particularly considering the energy you're going to have to spend on simulating a small universe. But film 1 survived the premise, having some things that follow from it in films 2 & 3 don't seem like huge baggage. And hey, even if it's bad science, it's pretty awesome metaphor: a system that survives off the energy and thought of the people it imprisons. Who hasn't had the sneaking suspicion they're imprisoned in just such a way?
posted by weston at 5:54 PM on November 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
The clip was damn cool. Four-hundred and forty hours of effort for a clip of that length is an incredible ratio of effort to product. Wow.
Yes, the original film is easily the best of the three, but for me the sequels fail only in the sense that they are harder to enjoy at a first, casual viewing, except for those without a serious background in philosophy and religion (me included). For those who continue to front, I recommend a couple of essays (one for each sequel). Read these, then give the entire trilogy another go. You may change your mind.
posted by timing at 6:37 PM on November 30, 2009
Yes, the original film is easily the best of the three, but for me the sequels fail only in the sense that they are harder to enjoy at a first, casual viewing, except for those without a serious background in philosophy and religion (me included). For those who continue to front, I recommend a couple of essays (one for each sequel). Read these, then give the entire trilogy another go. You may change your mind.
posted by timing at 6:37 PM on November 30, 2009
In response to the post: What an awesome piece of work. Well done. Many nice touches, and they chose an excellent scene to lego-ify.
In response to the Trilogy comments: standing. It's one of the better SF movie franchises. They all get muddy with the philosophical underpinnings (Star Wars mitichondrians? WTF??!), but the effects are cool, the story is interesting/entertaining, and Keanu = still eye-candy. assuming many people feel similarly about Carrie-Anne Moss.
posted by theora55 at 7:22 PM on November 30, 2009
In response to the Trilogy comments: standing. It's one of the better SF movie franchises. They all get muddy with the philosophical underpinnings (Star Wars mitichondrians? WTF??!), but the effects are cool, the story is interesting/entertaining, and Keanu = still eye-candy. assuming many people feel similarly about Carrie-Anne Moss.
posted by theora55 at 7:22 PM on November 30, 2009
I knew the second film was in trouble when they had the endless dancing. What up with that?
posted by storybored at 8:12 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by storybored at 8:12 PM on November 30, 2009
theora55, I think you'll find that mitichlorians don't exist in the Star Wars franchise. They only pop up in that high-budget Darth Vader slashfic that George Lucas made about ten years ago.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:17 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 8:17 PM on November 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
The MOMA Christmas catalog is showing a Lego Fallingwater - just thought I'd mention it (in case anyone was in agony trying to think of a good gift for me.)
posted by newdaddy at 8:18 PM on November 30, 2009
posted by newdaddy at 8:18 PM on November 30, 2009
That actually makes me wonder why there hasn't been a massively elaborate Hollywood movie done entirely with Lego (no CGI at all except for maybe some editing and subtle light rendering) with an original script.
When it does happen, it will be directed by Michel Gondry.
Every time I encounter The Matrix (#1) on TV I have to watch it all the way through. I've watched it at least 30 times now, including last week. I need help. (got no such problem with #2 and #3 though -- click, off) ergo duh
posted by intermod at 8:24 PM on November 30, 2009
When it does happen, it will be directed by Michel Gondry.
Every time I encounter The Matrix (#1) on TV I have to watch it all the way through. I've watched it at least 30 times now, including last week. I need help. (got no such problem with #2 and #3 though -- click, off) ergo duh
posted by intermod at 8:24 PM on November 30, 2009
The text story Neil Gaiman did for them has the people hooked up to the matrix be processors in a neural net rather than batteries
I had that idea yonks before the Matrix... So I was peeved that the film 'stole' my idea and got it WRONG.
I knew the second film was in trouble when they had the endless dancing. What up with that?
The Matrix of 1933
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:24 AM on December 1, 2009
I had that idea yonks before the Matrix... So I was peeved that the film 'stole' my idea and got it WRONG.
I knew the second film was in trouble when they had the endless dancing. What up with that?
The Matrix of 1933
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:24 AM on December 1, 2009
This is fucking awesome. Helps that the "Dodge this" shot is one of my favourite bits from the film.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:56 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:56 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Artw: "I can forgive a little handwaving over how exactly this human battery thing is supposed to make sense"
cortex: "The human battery thing was apparently Meddling Studio Executives in action"
weston: "Now, if you just couldn't accept the battery premise, I'm not sure I blame you"
Why do we think the humans are being used for power? Because Morpheus says it in the first movie. But how could he possibly know it? Virtually everything he knows about the conflict between humans and the machines is revealed to be misinformation planted by the machines in the first place. So why do we continue to believe he was speaking truthfully? The only machines who don't out-and-out lie to the humans are the Mirovingian and the Architect (even though neither of them are really direct about the truth) and neither of them ever say anything about the purpose of the Matrix or the enslavement of humanity.
Call it retconning if you must, but in the mythology of the movies, I feel comfortable viewing this as just another indication of Morpheus being misled.
posted by Plutor at 5:56 AM on December 1, 2009
cortex: "The human battery thing was apparently Meddling Studio Executives in action"
weston: "Now, if you just couldn't accept the battery premise, I'm not sure I blame you"
Why do we think the humans are being used for power? Because Morpheus says it in the first movie. But how could he possibly know it? Virtually everything he knows about the conflict between humans and the machines is revealed to be misinformation planted by the machines in the first place. So why do we continue to believe he was speaking truthfully? The only machines who don't out-and-out lie to the humans are the Mirovingian and the Architect (even though neither of them are really direct about the truth) and neither of them ever say anything about the purpose of the Matrix or the enslavement of humanity.
Call it retconning if you must, but in the mythology of the movies, I feel comfortable viewing this as just another indication of Morpheus being misled.
posted by Plutor at 5:56 AM on December 1, 2009
I really, really must call it retconning, sir. The movies did not try hard enough to convince me to go down that particular rabbit hole, especially given that the same line of unbounded "but what if something asserted to be true in the film was actually false" reasoning provides far too much A Wizard Did It latitude to scripts in which there are already too many wizards doing too many its.
posted by cortex at 7:11 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex at 7:11 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Plutor: "Call it retconning if you must, but in the mythology of the movies, I feel comfortable viewing this as just another indication of Morpheus being misled."
as far as I'm concerned, the battery thing was a much better plot device than... no explanation whatsoever for why the machines didn't just kill all the humans and say fuck it to the matrix in the first place.
posted by shmegegge at 8:13 AM on December 1, 2009
as far as I'm concerned, the battery thing was a much better plot device than... no explanation whatsoever for why the machines didn't just kill all the humans and say fuck it to the matrix in the first place.
posted by shmegegge at 8:13 AM on December 1, 2009
I'm all for making up explanations for things so you can continue to enjoy movies, but at some point you start soundinng like a victim of spousal abuse.
posted by Artw at 8:38 AM on December 1, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:38 AM on December 1, 2009 [4 favorites]
I had that [using brains for computing power] idea yonks before the Matrix... So I was peeved that the film 'stole' my idea and got it WRONG.
Hyperion stole it from you too I guess?
The Matrix is nothing more than a bagatelle of kewl posturing. That makes it perfect for Lego reenactment—but still utter shit as a film.
posted by fleacircus at 12:43 AM on December 2, 2009
Hyperion stole it from you too I guess?
The Matrix is nothing more than a bagatelle of kewl posturing. That makes it perfect for Lego reenactment—but still utter shit as a film.
posted by fleacircus at 12:43 AM on December 2, 2009
Geez, I should dig up the Matrix parody I made with some friends... Before the sequels came out, though reading this thread is making me want to finally watch them again.
posted by Pronoiac at 2:25 AM on December 2, 2009
posted by Pronoiac at 2:25 AM on December 2, 2009
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...and I still love Revolutions.
posted by DWRoelands at 11:51 AM on November 30, 2009