Stuffed.

November 7, 2013 8:16 AM

Occurring once before in 1888 and possibly not again for another 77,798 years (really), the two holidays of Chanukah and Thanksgiving will overlap. The result? Chefs, food blogs, and nearly everybody else scrambling to create distinct fusion menus that draw from the delicious traditions of each holiday (NYT). Buzzfeed's massive Thanksgivukkah menu. Gothamist: Four Easy Fusion Dishes. Food 52's recipe challenge (in comments). Serious Eats' response ( Latke-Crusted Turkey Stuffing Fritters With Liquid Cranberry Core and Turkey Schmaltz Gravy) . NY Daily News asks Chef Zach Kutsher for ideas.
posted by The Whelk (59 comments total)

(it also goes without saying there is a huge Pinterest board for it but it's not all recipes)
posted by The Whelk at 8:20 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm going to eat for 8 straight days and give everyone socks. Sounds like a win-win.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:20 AM on November 7, 2013 [6 favorites]

Buzzfeed and Gothamist both have challa stuffing recipes which look awesome, except they're not actually kosher as written.
posted by specialagentwebb at 8:25 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

Latke-Crusted Turkey Stuffing Fritters With Liquid Cranberry Core and Turkey Schmaltz Gravy

I'm going to eat this on the first night and then not move for 8 days. (Also a win-win.)
posted by zarq at 8:26 AM on November 7, 2013

Huh. So there is something to regret about living in Canada.
I am so jealous of y'all right now.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:26 AM on November 7, 2013

specialagentwebb: "Buzzfeed and Gothamist both have challa stuffing recipes which looks awesome, except they're not actually kosher as written."

Do they make vegan chicken apple sausage? Because that recipe looks delish.

I'm waiting for Balducci's Special Sale
posted by zarq at 8:28 AM on November 7, 2013

All of those recipes seem like just so much fuss.

(1) Take latke.
(2) Apply turkey gravy.

A meal fit for Jehovah.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:33 AM on November 7, 2013 [6 favorites]

From the Buzzfeed link: "You’ve probably noticed that BuzzFeed’s Thanksgivukkah is not kosher. (Because honestly, Thanksgiving is not possible without butter)"

And yet American Jews who keep kosher have managed to cook fantastic, tasty Thanksgiving dinners without killing their guests for generations....
posted by zarq at 8:34 AM on November 7, 2013 [4 favorites]

Greg Nog: "Gimme Lean's vegetarian sausage is unbelievably good, if you're hesitant to do the whole meat/milk thing."

Thanks!!!
posted by zarq at 8:34 AM on November 7, 2013

It's too bad Mensch on a Bench is already sold out. I love this idea, and think it would have been fun to have him around for Thanksgiving dinner, too.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:37 AM on November 7, 2013

My family has taken this to a level previously unheard of and that is saying a lot for my family. I will be making the cranberry applesauce for the latkes and the challah stuffing. We are eating then lighting candles then opening presents and then we are all going to drink Herzog until we plotz.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:42 AM on November 7, 2013

Thanks to the Internet, this is the first (and likely only) year I've been aware of when Chanukah is before my parents. I linked my mom to the Buzzfeed one and she said she hadn't realized yet that they overlapped. (And also how she understood I'd linked her to it as a joke, but that she was thinking how viable so many of them were for us.)

Every year for Thanksgiving we have at least three pies - pumpkin, apple, and the super amazing fudge pecan pie, which is everything good about pecan pie (the pecans) and nothing bad (the cloying sweetness). It's dark chocolate, all roasted and caramelized and dark. But you know what we're doing this year? Pumpkin pie, apple pie, and dark chocolate fudge pecan rugelach. It will be magnificent!
posted by Mizu at 8:48 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

My wife's mother was raised Jewish, her father was Catholic, and they're both UUs now, but we frequently "do" the food-centered Jewish holidays at their house and, conveniently, we also do Thanksgiving there, so this year could be a real barn-burner.

I am contractually-obligated to make a couple of chocolate pecan pies, but maybe I'll make one of them a batch of rugelach instead.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:51 AM on November 7, 2013

Huh. So there is something to regret about living in Canada.

Even better is having family on both sides of the border: TWO Thanksgivings! Score!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:58 AM on November 7, 2013 [3 favorites]

uncleozzy: " I am contractually-obligated to make a couple of chocolate pecan pies, but maybe I'll make one of them a batch of rugelach instead."

The recipe looks fantastic.
posted by zarq at 9:03 AM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I'm not crazy about the wet filling leaking out, though. I'm thinking it might make more sense just to lightly candy the pecans in brown sugar and bourbon before spreading them out.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:05 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

Anyone have a baby?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:07 AM on November 7, 2013

uncleozzy, my mom and I are having deep thoughts about this whole thing as well. Hammering out the recipe is one of our activities to fill the time I'll be there visiting before turkey day commences. Our fudge pecan pie recipe involves a small amount of dark corn syrup, but not much. I think the plan for the rugelach is to separate the pecan and the chocolate parts of the normal pie filling, and cut down on the corn syrup. First try will likely see me doing a light candying of the pre-chopped pecans with a little corn syrup for that particular flavor, brushing the fudge part directly on to the individual rugelach wedges first before placing the pecans more carefully. We like our rugelach to be tidy, too. I'm also thinking it might not be completely evil to mix a little corn syrup into the egg wash on top.
posted by Mizu at 9:20 AM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

Do they make vegan chicken apple sausage?

Kind of! Field Roast makes a delicious vegan smoked apple sage sausage. I can attest that it is absolutely amazing in stuffing but also excellent in a bun.

*waits on tenterhooks for Thanksgivukkah feast*
posted by divined by radio at 9:23 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

And so, to celebrate this year's hybrid holiday, Zucker Bakery in the East Village has released pumpkin-flavored doughnuts stuffed with turkey and your choice of cranberry sauce or gravy. (Gravy!) They'll also offer a pumpkin doughnut with cranberry filling sans turkey, and a sweet-potato version filled with marshmallows.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:24 AM on November 7, 2013

Occurring once before in 1888 and possibly not again for another 77,798 years (really), the two holidays of Chanukah and Thanksgiving will overlap.

This riight here is an opportunity to make what could conceivably be the greatest holiday feast of the era. I'm not even Jewish and I'm all about this.
posted by magstheaxe at 9:25 AM on November 7, 2013

Occurring once before in 1888 and possibly not again for another 77,798 years

More like never. 77000 years from now the current Jewish calendar will be sufficiently out of sync with the sun to require adjustment. It will be either an ad hoc or a wholesale adoption of the Persian calendar.
posted by ocschwar at 9:41 AM on November 7, 2013

To imagine that there will be either "Jews" or "Thanksgiving" in 77,000 years is a bit fanciful anyhow, no? May as well load up on Manischewitz and sweet potato latke while we can.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:49 AM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with bringing back these recipes for Chanukah next year. Apart from the latkes, there's nothing that's so sacred about that meal that it can't include gravy and things braised in wine. People have turkey on Christmas, too. If they can double up on the yule feasts every year, so can everybody else. I say there is no need to "load up while we can", but that doesn't mean we can't just do it for the heck of it now that we've all collectively realized what a good idea it seems to be.
posted by Mizu at 9:55 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

People have turkey on Christmas, too.

CHRISTMAS IS FOR GOOSE.

Sorry, I rarely get to eat goose and I don't want it taken from me for yet another bland, pappy Turkey.
posted by The Whelk at 9:58 AM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

Pumpkin pie, apple pie, and dark chocolate fudge pecan rugelach.

Please adopt me.

or share the recipe!
posted by jetlagaddict at 10:04 AM on November 7, 2013

CHRISTMAS IS FOR GOOSE.

The hell it is. Christmas is for HAM! A succulent, cured bone-in country ham, from hogs that went on a diet of nuts and fruits before slaughter, dry-aged in salt in your granddad's smokehouse for at least three months, smoked over hickory, and aged at least six months. Roast and glaze that s.o.b and serve with green beans, scalloped potatoes, sweet potato pie, and homemade elderberry wine.

Man. I need to get an actual country ham for Christmas.
posted by magstheaxe at 10:11 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

Yes but high quality ham is available year around! It's only during Christmastime that stores begin filling precious shelf-space with delicious giant dead dinosaur.
posted by The Whelk at 10:15 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

To imagine that there will be either "Jews" or "Thanksgiving" in 77,000 years is a bit fanciful anyhow, no?

On an even more basic level, why would we still be using an Earth calendar?
posted by elizardbits at 10:18 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

Christmas is for chinese takeout. My bubbe has been ordering in for years.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:23 AM on November 7, 2013 [11 favorites]

iMacabees?
posted by uncleozzy at 10:52 AM on November 7, 2013 [6 favorites]

i will throw my vote in for field roast over gimmie lean, zarq (hi!) for the vegan sausages. tofurky also seems to have some sausages now, but i can't vouch for them.
posted by nadawi at 10:55 AM on November 7, 2013

The Menurky
posted by The Whelk at 11:08 AM on November 7, 2013

Christmas is most certainly for Chinese food take-out. Brisket is for Hanukkah and will be served on Thanksgivukkah in our house.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:08 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

Just as a note, in 2016, Hanukkah begins on December 25 and ends on January 1, 2017, so in 3 years we'll have to wish each other a Happy New Christmahanukwanzikkah's year's day.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:14 AM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

I was under the impression that keeping kosher meant no milk and meat but that implies a milk producing animal. Milk with a non-milk producing animal was ok, so, chicken sausage and butter would be fine.
posted by Foam Pants at 11:18 AM on November 7, 2013

Sorry Foam Pants, no go if you're actually keeping kosher, kashrut rules are clear that chicken and milk are out. Irrational? Yes, but them's the rules.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:22 AM on November 7, 2013

Foam Pants: "I was under the impression that keeping kosher meant no milk and meat but that implies a milk producing animal. Milk with a non-milk producing animal was ok, so, chicken sausage and butter would be fine."

I keep kosher. This isn't correct. You're prohibited from eating meat and dairy together. It doesn't matter if the animal you're eating it with produces milk or not. Chickens don't produce milk, but chicken parmagiana is still not allowed. Even though chickens used to be considered parve.

Also.
posted by zarq at 11:24 AM on November 7, 2013

Zarq - I hadn't seen that link before - brilliant! Sometimes I think all the gezerot are crazy! Ever think of going Karaite?
posted by Sophie1 at 11:27 AM on November 7, 2013

Foam Pants: I was under the impression that keeping kosher meant no milk and meat but that implies a milk producing animal. Milk with a non-milk producing animal was ok, so, chicken sausage and butter would be fine.

Depends on the ethnicity of your Jewishness, actually. Under the laws of Kashrut, there are 3 types of food: milk, meat, and parve (neutral). Ethiopian Jews, and some Persian Jews, consider chicken to be parve, and so able to be eaten with either milk or meat; Ashkenazi (Eastern European) and Sephardic (Iberian Peninsula) Jews consider chicken to be meat. Fish is generally considered parve.
posted by hanov3r at 11:31 AM on November 7, 2013

Sophie1: "Ever think of going Karaite?"

To be honest, I know very little about them. Their more interepretive, less literal view is appealing. I'll have to read up more on them. Thanks for the suggestion! :)

hanov3r: "Ethiopian Jews, and some Persian Jews, consider chicken to be parve, and so able to be eaten with either milk or meat; "

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA. Seriously? I had no idea that any Jews still considered chicken parve. COOL!! :)
posted by zarq at 11:43 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

I may be thread-jacking but I find this whole chicken thing fascinating. So, it used to be parve? How and why is it now considered meat?
posted by Foam Pants at 11:49 AM on November 7, 2013

I am so excited about this, you guys.

I sort of want to see if I can combine stuffing (my grandmother makes a vegetarian stuffing with roasted chestnuts and sage) and latkes into one delicious fried creation.

Normally thanksgiving desserts are apple crumb pie, pumpkin pie, pumpkin cheesecake. This year I think I need to attempt apple and pumpkin donuts. And pies. And cheesecake. And this pecan pie rugaleh looks amazing and I can't wait to make it.

Franklin Farms makes some pretty decent veggie sausage as well.

brb constructing a menorah out of decorative gourds....
posted by inertia at 11:55 AM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

Zarq - they have their own...shall we say difficulties, but they are definitely not interested in all the commentary.

Foam Pants - what I mentioned above, gezerot - it's about the fences. The rabbis created rules to prevent us from breaking other rules. Which is the reason that one is not supposed to pick things up on Shabbat, to prevent one from accidentally working. Meat (beef) might be confused for chicken, therefore chicken is considered fleishe. Again, not logical, but them's the rules.

I've always described the gezerot as a fence around a tree. You're not supposed to touch the tree, so you put a fence around it, but you might accidentally trip and fall over that fence, so you put another fence around that fence and so on until you can't see the tree at all anymore (or the original rule).
posted by Sophie1 at 11:56 AM on November 7, 2013 [3 favorites]

From My Jewish learning:

Two opinions are presented. One is from Rabbi Akiba, who posits that separating fowl from dairy is a rabbinic prohibition. Countering Rabbi Akiba is Rabbi Yose Ha-Galili, who has no problem with chicken parmesan.

In the time of the Mishnah Rabbi Yose's position was the norm in some communities. But Prof. Kraemer says that as far as he knows there's no post-talmudic opinion that permits eating fowl and milk together. In the 15th century, the prohibition against eating birds with dairy was codified in the Shulhan Arukh (Yoreh Deah 87:3), with the stipulation that the prohibition is rabbinic, not from the Torah.

Prof. Kraemer thinks the rabbis decided to classify fowl as meat because of the sociology of the times.

"In the ancient world, meat was eaten with relative rarity, primarily for special occasions," Kraemer told me. "For more common special occasions, such as the Sabbath, 'smaller' meat would have been most common, and that was typically fowl. So people simply thought of and spoke of fowl as meat. Since this is the way people thought of it, this is the way the rabbis categorized it."

This is a classic case of "If it looks like a goat and it tastes like a goat, it's a goat"--even though, actually, it's a chicken or a duck.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:03 PM on November 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

Sophie1, I love that analogy. Genius.
posted by zarq at 12:03 PM on November 7, 2013

All of my rabbinical school paid off then!!!
posted by Sophie1 at 12:06 PM on November 7, 2013 [4 favorites]

My MIL will be visiting us for Hanukka, and I'm expected to pull a traditional Thanksgiving meal together. I don't know much about US cuisine, but right now I'm thinking doughnuts, wieners, fried chicken and root beer. That's what you guys do, right?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:45 PM on November 7, 2013

In addition to being the year of the next Thanksgivukkah, 79811 is also not just a prime number, but first in a pair of twin primes.

Jewish-American math nerds of that generation will surely have a very special holiday!
posted by Anything at 8:46 PM on November 7, 2013

Sadly, the corresponding year in the Hebrew calendar appears to be an uninteresting number.
posted by Anything at 9:03 PM on November 7, 2013

Thanksgiving, Chanukah, it's my day off, and... it's my birthday!
posted by Marky at 9:13 PM on November 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

Joe in Australia, don't forget Dr. Brown's cream soda and knishes with spicy brown mustard.

My family always orders in for Chanukah because my grandmother hosts every single holiday in my family and is worn out after the high holidays and thanksgiving. So Chanukah with my family has always been kosher deli food and homemade latkes.

Recently, I learned that glass dishes are basically pareve:
Glassware is usually considered pareve and cannot take on the characteristic of either meat or dairy when they are used for drinking or eating but not for cooking. This is true of Arcolac and Corelle. Note: Pyrex is not included in above.

Okay, seriously, why doesn't everyone use glass dishes? This blows my mind.
posted by inertia at 7:02 AM on November 8, 2013

inertia: "Okay, seriously, why doesn't everyone use glass dishes? "

Psychology. If people use one set of dishes rather than two they may forget the importance of separating meat and milk. So you're encouraged to have two sets of plates as a physical reminder/habit.

My family uses glass as our everyday Pesach dishes (our seder dishes are porcelain.) Makes life easier. But as you might expect....

"Glass is made from sand, and would therefore seem to be in the same Halachic category as earthenware (which is super-absorbent and cannot be kashered). On the other hand, the resultant glass vessel is hard and smooth - unlike earthenware - which would indicate that it is non-absorbent, and would therefore never need to be kashered.

Glass is a difficult material to classify Halachically, because it shares its origin with one class of material, but has physical characteristics that differ from items of that class.

Because of these unusual characteristics, there are a few different opinions in Jewish Law concerning glass dishes:

* Rav Yosef Karo rules that you can use glass for both milk and meat, and just rinse them off in between.
* Rav Moshe Isserlish writes that glass is like earthenware, and it is therefore forbidden to use the same dishes for both meat and milk.
* There is a third opinion that holds that glass is absorbent, but that it can be kashered through the process of "hagala" (immersion in boiling water). "

I spoke to Rav Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg, shlita, about the Halacha in this case. He told me that Sephardic Jews rule according to Rav Yosef Karo, and therefore use glass dishes for both meat and milk, while Ashkenazic Jews conduct themselves according to the opinion of Rav Moshe Isserlish, therefore refraining from the use of glass dishes for both. But, he said, because there are different opinions regarding the Halacha, there is room for leniency in cases where extenuating circumstances exist (for instance, a Ba'al Teshuvah who is going for a family visit where the kitchen is not kosher, but glass utensils are used). Should such a situation arise, you should contact your LOR for advice."

This by the way is a very good example of why it's never a good idea to make sweeping statements about entire groups of Jews, even if you're a rabbi. The Reform and Conservative Ashkenazi Jews that I know do (I'm pretty sure) have no problem using glass dishes for both meat and dairy. The Conservative Movement's umbrella organization, United Synagogue, says that glass dishes (non-pyrex) are kosher, Isserles notwithstanding. They don't encourage their use for the reason I gave above.

It's an Orthodox site. He could be unfamiliar with Conservative rules on the subject. Or he could be referring solely to traditions held by Orthodox Ashkenazi Jews in that charming way some Orthodox rabbis have of implying (or saying outright) that non-Orthodox Jews aren't religiously Jewish. Either way... he's wrong.
posted by zarq at 8:23 AM on November 8, 2013

all pyrex? just the borosilicate? just the soda lime glass? just the brand or fireking and other knockoffs as well? weird that corelle gets a pass, does corning? is it a date thing since corning was pyrex?

fascinating stuff...
posted by nadawi at 9:16 AM on November 8, 2013

Conan O'Brian celebrates
posted by The Whelk at 8:11 AM on November 20, 2013

nadawi: "all pyrex? just the borosilicate? just the soda lime glass? just the brand or fireking and other knockoffs as well? weird that corelle gets a pass, does corning? is it a date thing since corning was pyrex?"

I didn't answer this when you first asked it, nadawi, because I don't know the answer. I was hoping someone else would weigh in, but since they haven't my understanding is that pyrex pans and enameled pots cannot be kashered. I do not know why -- or even if that's accurate. My family uses pyrex pans at home, but even though we do keep kosher we're not huge sticklers for every kashrut rule. (For example, we pay attention to whether our meat is marked kosher with a hechsher, but not our dairy products.)

How glass from the other brands you mention are considered probably depends on who's doing the considering. See this.
posted by zarq at 10:24 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]

How glass from the other brands you mention are considered probably depends on who's doing the considering.

Are you trying to imply that Jewish people might differ in opinion amongst themselves? Pshaw!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:40 AM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]

The Thanksgivukkah Anthem
posted by bq at 12:43 PM on November 26, 2013

zarq - thanks! yeah, i figured it depended - i mean, not like pyrex was around when the suggestions were made. i was just wondering because pyrex has changed formulation and who makes them (and corning was pyrex for a long time and corelle came off of corning - for instance, i have mugs that are straight up identical, but one says pyrex and one says corning).
posted by nadawi at 12:51 PM on November 26, 2013