Yes, they did the thing
December 23, 2014 7:40 AM Subscribe
Legend of Korra: Ending was what you thought, deal with it. (Warning - Massive Spoilers!)
Both Bryan Konietzko and Mike DiMartino confirm what media outlets have suspected since Friday. And by confirming the relationship between Korra and Asami, they've created one of the most subversive shows in American animation.
Unsurprisingly, the fandom has gone nuts.
If you need a soundtrack for your feelings, Jeremy Zuckerman provides.
And in case you didn't know, there are FanFare posts for Book 3 and 4.
Both Bryan Konietzko and Mike DiMartino confirm what media outlets have suspected since Friday. And by confirming the relationship between Korra and Asami, they've created one of the most subversive shows in American animation.
Unsurprisingly, the fandom has gone nuts.
If you need a soundtrack for your feelings, Jeremy Zuckerman provides.
And in case you didn't know, there are FanFare posts for Book 3 and 4.
By the way, I wasn't going to post this, I was going to keep the squee in the FanFare thread, but then I made the mistake of listening to that damned track while in the shower, and I burst into tears again.
I always knew I was queer. I also knew that I'd never see a queer relationship on TV. Sure, I'd see subtext. I'd see "cousins" on Sailor Moon and killer lesbians on Quantum Leap and characters that were supposed to be gay but never had a relationship, and I'd never see anything happy. Not when I was a kid.
But now I think about all those kids out there, the ones who see these two women holding hands and going into the glowing light together, the ones who hear that, yes, it's true - these two women are in a relationship.
And it makes me so happy that they're not going to have the same problem I did. That this is out there. That this is real. And my heart just sings.
posted by Katemonkey at 7:53 AM on December 23, 2014 [55 favorites]
I always knew I was queer. I also knew that I'd never see a queer relationship on TV. Sure, I'd see subtext. I'd see "cousins" on Sailor Moon and killer lesbians on Quantum Leap and characters that were supposed to be gay but never had a relationship, and I'd never see anything happy. Not when I was a kid.
But now I think about all those kids out there, the ones who see these two women holding hands and going into the glowing light together, the ones who hear that, yes, it's true - these two women are in a relationship.
And it makes me so happy that they're not going to have the same problem I did. That this is out there. That this is real. And my heart just sings.
posted by Katemonkey at 7:53 AM on December 23, 2014 [55 favorites]
Smackfu – I think there’s a difference, because there’s been a lot of hints that they were romantically interested in each other before this (Korra blushing at Asami’s compliments, other characters wondering about their closeness, ect.). It really wasn’t out of left field.
I was slightly spoiled for it, but I’m still super happy that they went as far as they did. The only problem is now I need a season of Korra and Asami wandering the spirit wilds together, and I’m not going to get that. (well, not outside of fanfic and maybe a comic)
posted by dinty_moore at 8:07 AM on December 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
I was slightly spoiled for it, but I’m still super happy that they went as far as they did. The only problem is now I need a season of Korra and Asami wandering the spirit wilds together, and I’m not going to get that. (well, not outside of fanfic and maybe a comic)
posted by dinty_moore at 8:07 AM on December 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
It's a step forward. While we've had a string of shows lately willing to have bisexual characters, most of them are unwilling to drop the b-word and two framed it as the secret deception. It is, as the creators admit, not perfect, but it's a milestone, especially in terms of TV written for that age group.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 8:07 AM on December 23, 2014
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 8:07 AM on December 23, 2014
What I don't get are comments saying that it came out of nowhere. (The denial is strong with these people, I see.) Korrasami was quite obviously telegraphed as early as the start of Book 3.
I'm glad Korra and Asami are in a relationship, and I'm glad it's canon. It's out there, in the world, no denying it.
posted by supermassive at 8:07 AM on December 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm glad Korra and Asami are in a relationship, and I'm glad it's canon. It's out there, in the world, no denying it.
posted by supermassive at 8:07 AM on December 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
smackfu, they've been building up to this for seasons. Katemonkey's links quote the showrunners as saying that this has been their endgame for two seasons, and I actually think it's gone on longer -- the friendship between Asami and Korra has been developing since S1, and in the last two seasons, it's been a panoply of lingering looks, hand-touching, admiration and compliments, reunion meetcutes complete with blushing and hugs, one of the characters bringing the other tea to comfort her, the other character in a deep funk and not responding to any of the letters her other friends send her and only responding to Asami's, etc.
As one of the show creators said, the only way Korrasami is a surprise is, y'know. To watch from a really hetero framework.
Bonus awesome: the relationship is between two non-white ladies. :D
Bonus bonus awesome: the relationship achievement was unlocked without erasing the fact that both of them had previously been romantically involved with a dude.
Bonus bonus bonus awesome: the origin of their friendship is that they were both into the same dude, and then the dude turned out to be a bit of an immature jackass, and the ladies bonded and LITERALLY WALKED OFF INTO THE SPIRIT WORLD HAPPILY EVER AFTER WHILE HOLDING HANDS AND LOOKING INTO EACH OTHER'S EYES LIKE THEY ARE GETTING MARRIED AND
*EXPLODES*
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:09 AM on December 23, 2014 [27 favorites]
As one of the show creators said, the only way Korrasami is a surprise is, y'know. To watch from a really hetero framework.
Bonus awesome: the relationship is between two non-white ladies. :D
Bonus bonus awesome: the relationship achievement was unlocked without erasing the fact that both of them had previously been romantically involved with a dude.
Bonus bonus bonus awesome: the origin of their friendship is that they were both into the same dude, and then the dude turned out to be a bit of an immature jackass, and the ladies bonded and LITERALLY WALKED OFF INTO THE SPIRIT WORLD HAPPILY EVER AFTER WHILE HOLDING HANDS AND LOOKING INTO EACH OTHER'S EYES LIKE THEY ARE GETTING MARRIED AND
*EXPLODES*
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:09 AM on December 23, 2014 [27 favorites]
Essentially, the setup of Korra and Asami's relationship read a lot like the sort of queerbaiting that we've been expected to wave away as fanservicey jokes, only it actually followed through and made it canon.
And that's amazing.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:09 AM on December 23, 2014 [20 favorites]
And that's amazing.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:09 AM on December 23, 2014 [20 favorites]
Also if anyone has any korrasami in the spirit wilds fanfic recs already please send them my way (or just post them in this thread).
posted by dinty_moore at 8:13 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by dinty_moore at 8:13 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Wow. I didn't watch the show, and don't even know who the characters are, but that reaction video reduced me to tears. Over time, it is possible for things to suck less. Fuckin' A.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:14 AM on December 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:14 AM on December 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Sorry that I misunderstood. The way the post was framed, it seemed like there originally was some question over whether the ending meant what it meant.
posted by smackfu at 8:15 AM on December 23, 2014
posted by smackfu at 8:15 AM on December 23, 2014
I'm... Not sure how subversive I would call this. One of the problems that I had with LoK, particularly as it compares to TLA, is that Korra is a show that repeatedly preaches the message that if people have valid complaints on issues of systematic injustice, they're probably dangerous extremists, and their complaints shouldn't be addressed if it causes any of the primary beneficiaries of that injustice to die (or even be inconvenienced). The show allows for social change, but always out of the beneficence of the existing unjust power structure.
The Korrasami ending just struck me as more of the same. A sort of progress, but plausibly deniable enough to spare any uncomfortable conversations for anyone who didn't feel like having them.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:17 AM on December 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
The Korrasami ending just struck me as more of the same. A sort of progress, but plausibly deniable enough to spare any uncomfortable conversations for anyone who didn't feel like having them.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:17 AM on December 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
Oh, there was some question about what it meant - but not because it came out of nowhere. It's more because a) they didn't explicitly kiss or say 'we are now romantically interested in each other yep yep yep' and b) bisexual invisibility
posted by dinty_moore at 8:19 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by dinty_moore at 8:19 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Even before they confirmed it, both interpretations of the ending that I saw were great. You know, the other option where the female protagonist and a strongly written friend both have hetero romantic relationships, and then decide that you know what, I just don't feel like I need a relationship, and run off together. It reminds me of an FPP (or comment?) posted during summer this year about a woman who used to buy into the whole needing a relationship/marriage thing, but then met a close group of older females who always supported each other more than any marriage required.
Parasite Unseen, I think that keeping all spirit portals open is a sign of valid change. Also, you need to consider that the new Air Nomads and Republic City were all radical changes from before.
posted by halifix at 8:24 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Parasite Unseen, I think that keeping all spirit portals open is a sign of valid change. Also, you need to consider that the new Air Nomads and Republic City were all radical changes from before.
posted by halifix at 8:24 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yeah, in Korra the only people who really complained vociferously about whatever injustice existed were the antagonists. There were no "moderate" Equalists, or Unalak partisans, or antimonarchists who actually had to worry about being oppressed on a daily basis.
posted by Small Dollar at 8:28 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Small Dollar at 8:28 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Trolls still argue about Sergius and Bacchus, pay them no mind.
posted by pfh at 8:30 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by pfh at 8:30 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yeah, Parasite Unseen, I have a lot of similar problems with the stuff in the preceding three seasons, especially the very valid points about benders v. nonbenders and how weirdtastic the White Lotus secret society was.
In particular, I was really, really, really disappointed at how the big bad of this season went full cackling supervillain -- not so much the giant Gundam with a giant gun, but the speeches about ruling forever as Earth Queen or what have you, rather than continuing the thread from early in the season where she was doing good, and where she was supplying an actual need, and where she was a great contrast to the ineffectual hereditary ruler. It set up some really complicated, pointy questions about the nature of power and leadership and politics that I was looking forward to seeing play out, but nope.
In fact, I think the showrunners did themselves a disservice with a lot of how they handled Kuvira. (And I got kinda creeped out by Bolin claiming it was ALL KUVIRA WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE TERRIBLE THINGS, um, Nazi inner circlers claiming they didn't know about the extermination camps much?)
And as you say, it's kinda sad in light of how good they were at that stuff in A:TLA. There's the bloodbending lady whose revenge goes out of control, but I'm also thinking of the subtle-but-powerful hints about how Iroh was a much different man when he was running the Fire Nation's invading armies and sending Zuko a gift of the surrendered sword of the Earth Kingdom general -- it's a savvy bit of political play that gets packaged as benevolence, and it's also amazing seeing Zuko's coooooooooooooooooool at what is essentially loot from a subjugated nation.
On the other hand:
A sort of progress, but plausibly deniable enough to spare any uncomfortable conversations for anyone who didn't feel like having them.
I'm not sure that's fair, though. It's pretty clear from the creator statements that they were given rules by the network, and that they made it as explicit as possible on air within those guidelines. And the creators have gone on-record saying, yup, that's what it was -- it's a long, long way from JK Rowling dropping the fact that Dumbledore was gay into an interview years after the fact.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:37 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
In particular, I was really, really, really disappointed at how the big bad of this season went full cackling supervillain -- not so much the giant Gundam with a giant gun, but the speeches about ruling forever as Earth Queen or what have you, rather than continuing the thread from early in the season where she was doing good, and where she was supplying an actual need, and where she was a great contrast to the ineffectual hereditary ruler. It set up some really complicated, pointy questions about the nature of power and leadership and politics that I was looking forward to seeing play out, but nope.
In fact, I think the showrunners did themselves a disservice with a lot of how they handled Kuvira. (And I got kinda creeped out by Bolin claiming it was ALL KUVIRA WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE TERRIBLE THINGS, um, Nazi inner circlers claiming they didn't know about the extermination camps much?)
And as you say, it's kinda sad in light of how good they were at that stuff in A:TLA. There's the bloodbending lady whose revenge goes out of control, but I'm also thinking of the subtle-but-powerful hints about how Iroh was a much different man when he was running the Fire Nation's invading armies and sending Zuko a gift of the surrendered sword of the Earth Kingdom general -- it's a savvy bit of political play that gets packaged as benevolence, and it's also amazing seeing Zuko's coooooooooooooooooool at what is essentially loot from a subjugated nation.
On the other hand:
A sort of progress, but plausibly deniable enough to spare any uncomfortable conversations for anyone who didn't feel like having them.
I'm not sure that's fair, though. It's pretty clear from the creator statements that they were given rules by the network, and that they made it as explicit as possible on air within those guidelines. And the creators have gone on-record saying, yup, that's what it was -- it's a long, long way from JK Rowling dropping the fact that Dumbledore was gay into an interview years after the fact.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:37 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
It's Avatar fandom, people still debate the romantic pairing at the end of The Last Airbender.
My primary annoyance is that I hate the emphasis on "endgame" and "canon" and I dislike "word of god" even more. It's ok to ship or interpret characters "non-canon" ways (in fact, that's the point), and creators don't get to use twitter or tumblr to take mulligans on ambiguities that made it through hundreds of person-hours of development and editing.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 8:42 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
My primary annoyance is that I hate the emphasis on "endgame" and "canon" and I dislike "word of god" even more. It's ok to ship or interpret characters "non-canon" ways (in fact, that's the point), and creators don't get to use twitter or tumblr to take mulligans on ambiguities that made it through hundreds of person-hours of development and editing.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 8:42 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
is that Korra is a show that repeatedly preaches the message that if people have valid complaints on issues of systematic injustice, they're probably dangerous extremists
I do think the show handled this clumsily, but I liked that when Korra met Toph, Toph pointed out that all the antagonists had good ideas/plans at first, but took things too far. But their points were still valid! When Korra then encounters whats-his-face, Henry Rollins, he's horrified that his actions have led to a pretty crazy dictatorship. I do wish we could have seen more of Kuvira's rise to power, because it seems she did start from a good place and then, again, went too far (but realized it eventually).
Anyway. YAY KORRASAMI.
posted by leesh at 8:49 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
I do think the show handled this clumsily, but I liked that when Korra met Toph, Toph pointed out that all the antagonists had good ideas/plans at first, but took things too far. But their points were still valid! When Korra then encounters whats-his-face, Henry Rollins, he's horrified that his actions have led to a pretty crazy dictatorship. I do wish we could have seen more of Kuvira's rise to power, because it seems she did start from a good place and then, again, went too far (but realized it eventually).
Anyway. YAY KORRASAMI.
posted by leesh at 8:49 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Regarding the antagonists and their intentions, season 4 does at least address that in subtle ways. There is the pep talk Toph gives that reframes each of the antagonists as doing good, and there is the speech Ryu gives in his tour of the Oxymoronic Urban Spirit Wilds which shows that history in this world will remember the good the antagonists have done while probably glossing over the psycho-cartoon-villain parts. Zaheer in prison is also pretty humbled and genuinely wise about his own actions. He's the one that really felt off to me, because he's not even much of an extremist until he just sorta kinda is because the story needs him to be a bad guy and he's just been too nice and intelligent so far. Kuvira is the most cartoon-dictator, which is a shame because that's the opposite direction the show needed to go in, but it does what it can with that.
I haven't watched the finale yet, but I'm happy with this. This was the first ever Korra-related image I saved (all the rest have been scenic backgrounds from the show). At the time season 1 was all there was and I came a bit late to it and liked it a lot more than I expected to and more or less thought, "Heh, that's sweet. That'd be sweet. No chance of ever happening, though." when that ended up surfacing on my Tumblr froth. By season 3, I was doing a lot of eye rolling at the Korra/Asami fandom pairing because it felt kind of immature and gross. That they went and made it sincere really is sweet and beautiful, and probably even did a lot to curb that grossness.
I've always liked Asami. She has the best design: she's the most feminine character, but shows the least skin of anyone. She's the least magical but in many ways the most capable, thoughtful and well-rounded. Her outfits are stylish and attractive without ever being pandering or sexualized. She's allowed to be feminine without having that reduce her in any way. Plus, she has lightning gloves and builds giant robots for fun. I want lightning gloves and giant robots!
I love the Konietzko piece on this. Especially this, which comes a lot closer to coherently defining what love is than most filmmakers are comfortable with:
I haven't watched the finale yet, but I'm happy with this. This was the first ever Korra-related image I saved (all the rest have been scenic backgrounds from the show). At the time season 1 was all there was and I came a bit late to it and liked it a lot more than I expected to and more or less thought, "Heh, that's sweet. That'd be sweet. No chance of ever happening, though." when that ended up surfacing on my Tumblr froth. By season 3, I was doing a lot of eye rolling at the Korra/Asami fandom pairing because it felt kind of immature and gross. That they went and made it sincere really is sweet and beautiful, and probably even did a lot to curb that grossness.
I've always liked Asami. She has the best design: she's the most feminine character, but shows the least skin of anyone. She's the least magical but in many ways the most capable, thoughtful and well-rounded. Her outfits are stylish and attractive without ever being pandering or sexualized. She's allowed to be feminine without having that reduce her in any way. Plus, she has lightning gloves and builds giant robots for fun. I want lightning gloves and giant robots!
I love the Konietzko piece on this. Especially this, which comes a lot closer to coherently defining what love is than most filmmakers are comfortable with:
“I’ve become skeptical of the unwritten rule that just because a boy and girl appear in the same feature, a romance must ensue. Rather, I want to portray a slightly different relationship, one where the two mutually inspire each other to live - if I’m able to, then perhaps I’ll be closer to portraying a true expression of love.”posted by byanyothername at 9:07 AM on December 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
I agree with him wholeheartedly, especially since the majority of the examples in media portray a female character that is little more than a trophy to be won by the male lead for his derring-do. So Mako and Korra break the typical pattern and end up respecting, admiring, and inspiring each other. That is a resolution I am proud of.
However, I think there needs to be a counterpart to Miyazaki’s sentiment: Just because two characters of the same sex appear in the same story, it should not preclude the possibility of a romance between them. No, not everyone is queer, but the other side of that coin is that not everyone is straight.
encounters whats-his-face, Henry Rollins
Ohhhh, okay. So that's why I love Zaheer. I was thinking it was all that Buddhist-mystico-anarchist international superhero stuff all this time, but nope.
posted by byanyothername at 9:12 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Ohhhh, okay. So that's why I love Zaheer. I was thinking it was all that Buddhist-mystico-anarchist international superhero stuff all this time, but nope.
posted by byanyothername at 9:12 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
creators don't get to use twitter or tumblr to take mulligans on ambiguities that made it through hundreds of person-hours of development and editing.
They do when they explain that the network is the only reason they couldn't have been more explicit in what they were working to achieve. Ambiguity really isn't at play here for anyone willing to pick up the clues that were dropped from Book 3 through Book 4. Subtle, yes, but ambiguous, nope.
posted by Atreides at 9:18 AM on December 23, 2014 [15 favorites]
They do when they explain that the network is the only reason they couldn't have been more explicit in what they were working to achieve. Ambiguity really isn't at play here for anyone willing to pick up the clues that were dropped from Book 3 through Book 4. Subtle, yes, but ambiguous, nope.
posted by Atreides at 9:18 AM on December 23, 2014 [15 favorites]
byanyothername: You hit on some very great points about Asami. When she first showed up, I rolled my eyes hard and got irritated. I expected her to play the role that someone that pretty typically does. To be petty and shallow and I expected her to create strife and romance triangle nonsense with Mako/Korra. That did happen.. but it didn't play out like I expected it to. Instead they wrote one of the most life-like characters of the show.
The representation in Korra makes me want to show it to every teen girl who's questioning herself. It's packed with strong women of many different ages. I share similar feelings with Katemonkey. As someone who identifies as bi, I'm glad the youth of today can look at this show and see a part of themselves in it.
posted by royalsong at 9:24 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
The representation in Korra makes me want to show it to every teen girl who's questioning herself. It's packed with strong women of many different ages. I share similar feelings with Katemonkey. As someone who identifies as bi, I'm glad the youth of today can look at this show and see a part of themselves in it.
posted by royalsong at 9:24 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
creators don't get to use twitter or tumblr to take mulligans on ambiguities that made it through hundreds of person-hours of development and editing.
It's hardly ambiguous. It's so obvious if you've been paying attention. Authors don't always want to smack you across the face with things; sometimes you're meant to read between the lines. However, I don't think it's wrong for an author to say, "this group has interpreted it correctly."
Unlike some shows, the ending of Korra wasn't supposed to be a will-they-won't-they mystery. It's not David Chase taunting fans of the Sopranos forever.
posted by explosion at 9:27 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's hardly ambiguous. It's so obvious if you've been paying attention. Authors don't always want to smack you across the face with things; sometimes you're meant to read between the lines. However, I don't think it's wrong for an author to say, "this group has interpreted it correctly."
Unlike some shows, the ending of Korra wasn't supposed to be a will-they-won't-they mystery. It's not David Chase taunting fans of the Sopranos forever.
posted by explosion at 9:27 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
(thanks for posting, katemonkey).
Most of the quibbles I have about the series as a whole not dealing with Things Enemies Were Right About I chalk up to the fact that this series got whipsawed around, treated like crap, under-promoted, and finally moved to all-online and forced to do a clip show in the last season so they'd have enough budget for a finale. In other words, fuck you Nickelodeon and where the fuck are my Korra action figures you assholes.
(or even a Katara action figure from the first series. Assholes).
Anyway, I watched this show every Friday morning before school with my son on Amazon (we don't have cable). And so it was that me and my kid watched two women join hands and walk off together for the first time ever in kid-TV history. And that was pretty fucking awesome. He lives in a world where that can happen, now.
posted by emjaybee at 9:49 AM on December 23, 2014 [14 favorites]
Most of the quibbles I have about the series as a whole not dealing with Things Enemies Were Right About I chalk up to the fact that this series got whipsawed around, treated like crap, under-promoted, and finally moved to all-online and forced to do a clip show in the last season so they'd have enough budget for a finale. In other words, fuck you Nickelodeon and where the fuck are my Korra action figures you assholes.
(or even a Katara action figure from the first series. Assholes).
Anyway, I watched this show every Friday morning before school with my son on Amazon (we don't have cable). And so it was that me and my kid watched two women join hands and walk off together for the first time ever in kid-TV history. And that was pretty fucking awesome. He lives in a world where that can happen, now.
posted by emjaybee at 9:49 AM on December 23, 2014 [14 favorites]
Aww, dang, saw this headline and was hoping it ended both the death of the main character or something interesting. A couple of lesbians are hardly out of the order, I think it a good thing that such a revelation phases and interests me in no way whatsoever, though I do know there will always be some for who that's a bother. Besides, as far as gay relationships in kids shows go, "Ed, Edd, n Eddy" has Korra beat by like 10 years.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:54 AM on December 23, 2014
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:54 AM on December 23, 2014
creators don't get to use twitter or tumblr to take mulligans on ambiguities that made it through hundreds of person-hours of development and editing.
Yeah, I'd agree with you if they had had full creative control of the show itself, but I see this case as being like Marceline and Princess Bubblegum in Adventure Time - when the off-screen constraints of craven networks afraid they won't be able to play their show in the UAE or whatever blocks a creator from doing what they actually want to with their story, I think a little post-hoc word-of-God is acceptable.
I'm still super frustrated that, as others have said, the show never dealt with the fact that (barring the whole genocidal terrorist leader thing) the Equalists were right. I mean, for most of Republic City's history to that point literally 25% of the voting power on the council represnted one dude and his family.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:57 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I'd agree with you if they had had full creative control of the show itself, but I see this case as being like Marceline and Princess Bubblegum in Adventure Time - when the off-screen constraints of craven networks afraid they won't be able to play their show in the UAE or whatever blocks a creator from doing what they actually want to with their story, I think a little post-hoc word-of-God is acceptable.
I'm still super frustrated that, as others have said, the show never dealt with the fact that (barring the whole genocidal terrorist leader thing) the Equalists were right. I mean, for most of Republic City's history to that point literally 25% of the voting power on the council represnted one dude and his family.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:57 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Asami Sato is the best. In my head, in much the same way Lin Bei Fong is Wolverine/Batman/Iron Man/Spiderman, Asami Sato is Pepper Potts with Tony Stark genius and daddy issues. Every time she put on her +5 glove of electricity and stepped forth to kick ass, I had to put a pillow on my face and breathe for a while.
Also, her storyline with her dad this season almost made me cry.
forced to do a clip show in the last season so they'd have enough budget for a finale.
Jesus Christ, is that what happened? That is so, so disappointing.
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:58 AM on December 23, 2014
Also, her storyline with her dad this season almost made me cry.
forced to do a clip show in the last season so they'd have enough budget for a finale.
Jesus Christ, is that what happened? That is so, so disappointing.
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:58 AM on December 23, 2014
We haven't made it through season 4 with my kid, but I am excited that he finally gets to see a show aimed at kids where a relationship like his aunts' is portrayed.
I've had a lot to complain about during the LoK (compared to the Avatar) but I am super happy to have something good to end on. It will be interesting to see how the kid interprets the ending if it really is so ambiguous.
posted by Seamus at 10:00 AM on December 23, 2014
I've had a lot to complain about during the LoK (compared to the Avatar) but I am super happy to have something good to end on. It will be interesting to see how the kid interprets the ending if it really is so ambiguous.
posted by Seamus at 10:00 AM on December 23, 2014
I guess it's like Steve Jobs said.
Real artists ship.
posted by weston at 10:00 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Real artists ship.
posted by weston at 10:00 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
i thought the ending was major fan service, out of no where, silly.
but after reading this thread, I think i should go back and re-watch seasons 3 and 4 with hetero-goggles off.
posted by rebent at 10:02 AM on December 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
but after reading this thread, I think i should go back and re-watch seasons 3 and 4 with hetero-goggles off.
posted by rebent at 10:02 AM on December 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
As Toph pointed out, the new President of Republic City is a non-bender, and the non-benders did get a voice as a result of the events of Book 1. I'm not going to argue the whole plotline wasn't handled awkwardly, though.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:04 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:04 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, not having finished the last season but having read this thread, I can say that there have been many instances in the 3&4 where I thought "either they are putting in hints towards a relationship or they are throwing in titillating scenes for the post-adolescent fan boys." I'm glad to hear it has not all been a pillow-fight-for-the-boys load of bullshit.
posted by Seamus at 10:08 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Seamus at 10:08 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The impression I have is that the season 3 telegraphing was fan service, but then the writers thought about it and wondered why not just go ahead and do that sincerely? Why is two friends falling in love taboo? It doesn't have to be. So they decided to treat it as something serious, instead of as a joke. Which is a wonderful thing.
posted by byanyothername at 10:22 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by byanyothername at 10:22 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
I haven't watched the show and I can't say as I plan to, but I've been kind of idly following this story and I have to say I think it's pretty cool that a TV show for children ended with a lesbian relationship and the biggest controversy about it is an argument between people who think the pairing felt a little last-minute and people who don't.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:26 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:26 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
The authors do say that putting Tahno on a trombone in the last episode was fanservice. Tahno has lots of Tumblr fans. (Also in that band: the rest of the Wolfbats! Tonraq's assistant! Corrupt cops that stymied Mako!)
posted by emjaybee at 10:37 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:37 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Atreides: They do when they explain that the network is the only reason they couldn't have been more explicit in what they were working to achieve. Ambiguity really isn't at play here for anyone willing to pick up the clues that were dropped from Book 3 through Book 4. Subtle, yes, but ambiguous, nope.
Working within a commercial environment is one of the constraints of the medium, which consists of the material that gets broadcast, streamed, and printed to disk, not that material plus an ever changing mountain of context-dependent ephemera.
Which, the ambiguities I was referring to were not that Korra and Asami have a relationship, but their relationship to 20th-century American identities such as lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, etc., etc.. Sometimes that's appropriate, sometimes it's not. But it's already been a battle with one fanfic writer getting harassment over stories that were published back in Book 1.
explosion: It's hardly ambiguous. It's so obvious if you've been paying attention. Authors don't always want to smack you across the face with things; sometimes you're meant to read between the lines. However, I don't think it's wrong for an author to say, "this group has interpreted it correctly."
I think authors are frequently wrong to do so. You can't have it both ways and call "word of god" when an author agrees with your interpretation and "death of the author" when an author disagrees with your criticism. I'm sure that Battle of the Five Armies has great meaning to Jackson, Walsh, and Boyens, that they'll probably explain in interviews delivered with the box set, but I just see a bunch of cheesy signifiers for trite messages delivered with a lack of real conviction.
Or to dismiss Konietzko and DiMartino's refreshing self-criticism that they could have done better. Those statements are just as important as the "yes they are," and are a sign that they're doing it right. Because look, it's the end of the year and we have five hit shows with bisexual characters that have used the word once or twice among them. That's still a problem. The next "kids" show to deal with same-sex relationships is going to fight similar constraints, and that's still a problem. The relationship was developed differently from the earlier love polygons due to commercial constraints, which is a problem.
None of which should exclude the possibility of alternate creative interpretations. If someone wants to read one or both of them as lesbian, trans, or asexual, ship (or not) and let ship. It seems deeply unfair for me to slash Kirk/Spock and dicker about korrasami as a lesbian narrative.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:42 AM on December 23, 2014
Working within a commercial environment is one of the constraints of the medium, which consists of the material that gets broadcast, streamed, and printed to disk, not that material plus an ever changing mountain of context-dependent ephemera.
Which, the ambiguities I was referring to were not that Korra and Asami have a relationship, but their relationship to 20th-century American identities such as lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, etc., etc.. Sometimes that's appropriate, sometimes it's not. But it's already been a battle with one fanfic writer getting harassment over stories that were published back in Book 1.
explosion: It's hardly ambiguous. It's so obvious if you've been paying attention. Authors don't always want to smack you across the face with things; sometimes you're meant to read between the lines. However, I don't think it's wrong for an author to say, "this group has interpreted it correctly."
I think authors are frequently wrong to do so. You can't have it both ways and call "word of god" when an author agrees with your interpretation and "death of the author" when an author disagrees with your criticism. I'm sure that Battle of the Five Armies has great meaning to Jackson, Walsh, and Boyens, that they'll probably explain in interviews delivered with the box set, but I just see a bunch of cheesy signifiers for trite messages delivered with a lack of real conviction.
Or to dismiss Konietzko and DiMartino's refreshing self-criticism that they could have done better. Those statements are just as important as the "yes they are," and are a sign that they're doing it right. Because look, it's the end of the year and we have five hit shows with bisexual characters that have used the word once or twice among them. That's still a problem. The next "kids" show to deal with same-sex relationships is going to fight similar constraints, and that's still a problem. The relationship was developed differently from the earlier love polygons due to commercial constraints, which is a problem.
None of which should exclude the possibility of alternate creative interpretations. If someone wants to read one or both of them as lesbian, trans, or asexual, ship (or not) and let ship. It seems deeply unfair for me to slash Kirk/Spock and dicker about korrasami as a lesbian narrative.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:42 AM on December 23, 2014
Seriously though, Cartoon Network is hella crappy for being evasive about P-Bubs and Marceline.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:43 AM on December 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:43 AM on December 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
You know, the other option where the female protagonist and a strongly written friend both have hetero romantic relationships, and then decide that you know what, I just don't feel like I need a relationship, and run off together.
Initially I was a little disappointed in the Korrasami thing because I was really, really invested in the idea that the creators were building a strong female friendship as the central protagonist relationship, a la Frozen. I read the end as a triumphant Happily-Ever-After-With-My-Best-Friend over Happily-Ever-After-With-Mah-Maaaaaan. And I say this as a queer woman.
They're being groundbreaking in another way, so that is awesome. Just in general I just wish there was more stuff out there where Happy Ending doesn't always mean Twue Wuv.
posted by Anonymous at 10:47 AM on December 23, 2014
Initially I was a little disappointed in the Korrasami thing because I was really, really invested in the idea that the creators were building a strong female friendship as the central protagonist relationship, a la Frozen. I read the end as a triumphant Happily-Ever-After-With-My-Best-Friend over Happily-Ever-After-With-Mah-Maaaaaan. And I say this as a queer woman.
They're being groundbreaking in another way, so that is awesome. Just in general I just wish there was more stuff out there where Happy Ending doesn't always mean Twue Wuv.
posted by Anonymous at 10:47 AM on December 23, 2014
In other words, fuck you Nickelodeon and where the fuck are my Korra action figures you assholes.
I think it's possible Nick did us all a favor by not seeing the merchandising angle; there are lots of shows that have suffered because they existed to sell toys and tchochkes.
posted by weston at 10:50 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think it's possible Nick did us all a favor by not seeing the merchandising angle; there are lots of shows that have suffered because they existed to sell toys and tchochkes.
posted by weston at 10:50 AM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
But weston, they would be so awesome and I want them.
posted by emjaybee at 10:51 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:51 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
But weston, they would be so awesome and I want them.
Seriously. I'd love to have little Korra and Lin figurines sitting on my desk right now.
posted by supermassive at 11:01 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Seriously. I'd love to have little Korra and Lin figurines sitting on my desk right now.
posted by supermassive at 11:01 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you can knit, you can have a little pear spirit.
posted by Katemonkey at 11:05 AM on December 23, 2014
posted by Katemonkey at 11:05 AM on December 23, 2014
That spirit is adorable, but it means I'd have to learn to knit. (Not knocking it at all, I just don't have the time right now.)
posted by supermassive at 11:11 AM on December 23, 2014
posted by supermassive at 11:11 AM on December 23, 2014
I would pay a lot of money for a Lin Bei Fong figurine.
Like, an embarrassing amount of money. Especially if it came with little claws I could pop out of her knuckles.
(How much do I love Lin Bei Fong? I love her a lot. As much as I loved the Korrasami ending, my favorite all-time no. 1 LoK moment might still be the sequence in S1 where she sacrifices herself in order to buy Tenzin and his Airbender family time to escape. Like, when she turns and starts ripping up the side of the airship?)
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:58 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Like, an embarrassing amount of money. Especially if it came with little claws I could pop out of her knuckles.
(How much do I love Lin Bei Fong? I love her a lot. As much as I loved the Korrasami ending, my favorite all-time no. 1 LoK moment might still be the sequence in S1 where she sacrifices herself in order to buy Tenzin and his Airbender family time to escape. Like, when she turns and starts ripping up the side of the airship?)
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:58 AM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
OKAY, now that I HAVE seen the ending:
1) That was as sweet and beautiful as I could have hoped for. ♥ that score.
and 2) I think the antagonists make a lot more sense in context now. Korra is obviously intended as an avatar of change, and with each major storyline she does somehow set off the positive change sought by the antagonists. Non-benders become as respected and prominent as benders; the spirit world realigns with the material; the Earth Kingdom becomes an independent semi-anarchist republic; the Air Nation is revived. Her entire character arc is about learning that change is to be tempered and guided, rather than resisted or fought. Each of the antagonists reaches their extremities by being so thoroughly pushed back against, and for the duration of the show Korra sucks at seeing that because she's still only a teenager. The ending gives the impression that she understands that now, and will work as an adult to facilitate compassionate change rather than try and continually fail to kick its butt.
Which is a pretty amazing message, actually. The bisexual romance is icing on that cake, and forms a nice real world thematic parallel.
posted by byanyothername at 12:12 PM on December 23, 2014 [15 favorites]
1) That was as sweet and beautiful as I could have hoped for. ♥ that score.
and 2) I think the antagonists make a lot more sense in context now. Korra is obviously intended as an avatar of change, and with each major storyline she does somehow set off the positive change sought by the antagonists. Non-benders become as respected and prominent as benders; the spirit world realigns with the material; the Earth Kingdom becomes an independent semi-anarchist republic; the Air Nation is revived. Her entire character arc is about learning that change is to be tempered and guided, rather than resisted or fought. Each of the antagonists reaches their extremities by being so thoroughly pushed back against, and for the duration of the show Korra sucks at seeing that because she's still only a teenager. The ending gives the impression that she understands that now, and will work as an adult to facilitate compassionate change rather than try and continually fail to kick its butt.
Which is a pretty amazing message, actually. The bisexual romance is icing on that cake, and forms a nice real world thematic parallel.
posted by byanyothername at 12:12 PM on December 23, 2014 [15 favorites]
But weston, they would be so awesome and I want them.
That is expressly the reason why 3-D printers were invented.
posted by happyroach at 1:03 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
That is expressly the reason why 3-D printers were invented.
posted by happyroach at 1:03 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
joyceanmachine, have you seen this Tumblr? Makanidot is a fabulous artist who draws amazing Beifong Family Comics. It's helping me with my withdrawal, somewhat.
posted by emjaybee at 1:17 PM on December 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 1:17 PM on December 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
So that GIF that's been making the rounds on Tumblr wasn't actually included in the last scene? Y'all might want to click that, then.
(I don't watch this show or know who these characters are, but I've gleaned that this is as exciting for all y'all as Johnlock becoming canon would be for me, so huzzah!)
posted by Jacqueline at 10:03 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
(I don't watch this show or know who these characters are, but I've gleaned that this is as exciting for all y'all as Johnlock becoming canon would be for me, so huzzah!)
posted by Jacqueline at 10:03 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I just saw the last three episodes of Korra. I had to clear everything off of Chrome and the desktop, and reboot the laptop, but it was worth it. DAMN that is a sweet ending!
Now I want a "KORRASAMA IS CANON" T-shirt.
And Jacqueline? I showed my wife that GIF< and I have you to thank for the fact that she's been making nthing but squeeing noises for the last fifteen minutes...Now she's offering any amount of money for the creators to do something outside of Nickelodean...she's offering her shirt...
Thanks a lot.
posted by happyroach at 11:51 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Now I want a "KORRASAMA IS CANON" T-shirt.
And Jacqueline? I showed my wife that GIF< and I have you to thank for the fact that she's been making nthing but squeeing noises for the last fifteen minutes...Now she's offering any amount of money for the creators to do something outside of Nickelodean...she's offering her shirt...
Thanks a lot.
posted by happyroach at 11:51 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
So that GIF that's been making the rounds on Tumblr wasn't actually included in the last scene?
That's actually fan art.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 3:31 AM on December 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
That's actually fan art.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 3:31 AM on December 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
happyroach: "Now I want a "KORRASAMA IS CANON" T-shirt. "
http://rachaelmakesshirts.tumblr.com/
http://www.redbubble.com/shop/korrasami
posted by signal at 7:58 AM on December 24, 2014
http://rachaelmakesshirts.tumblr.com/
http://www.redbubble.com/shop/korrasami
posted by signal at 7:58 AM on December 24, 2014
LITERALLY LOSES MY GOD DAMN MIND!?!?
*rewatches last 5 minutes of that finale for the 20th time*
posted by Fizz at 8:14 AM on December 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
*rewatches last 5 minutes of that finale for the 20th time*
posted by Fizz at 8:14 AM on December 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
The only thing that would have made me squee even more is if they had gone into the spirit world on a polar bear dog.
posted by Fizz at 8:20 AM on December 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 8:20 AM on December 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
seconding Makanidot as the best writer for the Beifong saga. She even corrected the flaws of the actual series in the Toph / Lin drama.
and I'd like to cheers the Mako / Korra relationship as amazing, too. here's to mutually supportive, intimate, hetero relationships that aren't sexual.
Season 2 was all over the place plotwise, but I thought characterwise it worked well in a similar way--there were very mature break ups. the break ups were better than the romances, and Bolin's character was there all the while as the comic mirror to the main arcs.
and overall, there's a much better series inside what got produced as The Legend of Korra. there were so many instances where we got a whole "plot dump" through dialogue, rather than having the plot animated out in real time. The Mecha reveal, Kuvira's character arc, Unalaq's character, god damnit there were so many reveals and character arcs that just got blurted out by, say Bolin in 10 seconds, when they should have been 10 min of animation.
posted by eustatic at 12:51 PM on December 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
and I'd like to cheers the Mako / Korra relationship as amazing, too. here's to mutually supportive, intimate, hetero relationships that aren't sexual.
Season 2 was all over the place plotwise, but I thought characterwise it worked well in a similar way--there were very mature break ups. the break ups were better than the romances, and Bolin's character was there all the while as the comic mirror to the main arcs.
and overall, there's a much better series inside what got produced as The Legend of Korra. there were so many instances where we got a whole "plot dump" through dialogue, rather than having the plot animated out in real time. The Mecha reveal, Kuvira's character arc, Unalaq's character, god damnit there were so many reveals and character arcs that just got blurted out by, say Bolin in 10 seconds, when they should have been 10 min of animation.
posted by eustatic at 12:51 PM on December 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: Put on your +5 glove of electricity and step forth to kick ass.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:10 PM on December 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:10 PM on December 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
this thread is the best.
posted by yueliang at 10:42 PM on December 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by yueliang at 10:42 PM on December 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
They're being groundbreaking in another way, so that is awesome. Just in general I just wish there was more stuff out there where Happy Ending doesn't always mean Twue Wuv.
I agree with this. She could have ended the series as THE AVATAR, not Korrasami. Instead, she's always in a relationship that at least partly defines her.
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to impede anyone's joy about the ending, but I can also agree with those folks who think this came out of nowhere. They definitely showed Korra blushing and all that throughout the season(s), but for Asami, the ending didn't ring true. She never seemed anything other than friendly with her pen pal, Korra. It'd probably take another watch to pick up on any of the obvious signs I've missed. I wonder if Asami's dialogue had been given to a male character, would I construe it as flirting.
Kudos for being subversive and for giving underrepresented folks heroes to identify with, but using the last 15 seconds of the series finale to show two teenagers embark on their first bisexual or lesbian relationship is the equivalent of stating "Dumbledore's gay!" after the books have all been written.
Then again, maybe that's what a first step looks like.
posted by GrapeApiary at 1:18 PM on December 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
I agree with this. She could have ended the series as THE AVATAR, not Korrasami. Instead, she's always in a relationship that at least partly defines her.
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to impede anyone's joy about the ending, but I can also agree with those folks who think this came out of nowhere. They definitely showed Korra blushing and all that throughout the season(s), but for Asami, the ending didn't ring true. She never seemed anything other than friendly with her pen pal, Korra. It'd probably take another watch to pick up on any of the obvious signs I've missed. I wonder if Asami's dialogue had been given to a male character, would I construe it as flirting.
Kudos for being subversive and for giving underrepresented folks heroes to identify with, but using the last 15 seconds of the series finale to show two teenagers embark on their first bisexual or lesbian relationship is the equivalent of stating "Dumbledore's gay!" after the books have all been written.
Then again, maybe that's what a first step looks like.
posted by GrapeApiary at 1:18 PM on December 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to impede anyone's joy about the ending, but I can also agree with those folks who think this came out of nowhere. They definitely showed Korra blushing and all that throughout the season(s), but for Asami, the ending didn't ring true. She never seemed anything other than friendly with her pen pal, Korra. It'd probably take another watch to pick up on any of the obvious signs I've missed. I wonder if Asami's dialogue had been given to a male character, would I construe it as flirting.
For a number of people, the beginning of the transition from just friend to the development of strong emotions began at the end of Season 3, when Asami is taking care of Korra and promises to always remain at her side. Notably, prior to this decision to bring Asami into a much more intimate relationship with Korra, one would have expected Korra to have been taken care of by either the Airbenders or her own family. This was a new development that was then carried through into Season 4 with the pen pals, Korra's inability to share her struggles and problems with anyone other than Asami. Tag on the blush and things are really started to sharpen into focus. Mako's exclamation of, "What's going on with you two!" was almost a lampshade of the relationship.
posted by Atreides at 2:14 PM on December 26, 2014
For a number of people, the beginning of the transition from just friend to the development of strong emotions began at the end of Season 3, when Asami is taking care of Korra and promises to always remain at her side. Notably, prior to this decision to bring Asami into a much more intimate relationship with Korra, one would have expected Korra to have been taken care of by either the Airbenders or her own family. This was a new development that was then carried through into Season 4 with the pen pals, Korra's inability to share her struggles and problems with anyone other than Asami. Tag on the blush and things are really started to sharpen into focus. Mako's exclamation of, "What's going on with you two!" was almost a lampshade of the relationship.
posted by Atreides at 2:14 PM on December 26, 2014
For a number of people, the beginning of the transition from just friend to the development of strong emotions began at the end of Season 3, when Asami is taking care of Korra and promises to always remain at her side.
Also, in episode 3 of S3 they ride around in a car together when they are tasked with collecting taxes for the Earth Kingdom Queen, there was a definite bonding moment there too. That is when I really started to see the seeds of their relationship. I mostly saw KorrAsami happen in Seasons 3 & 4.
posted by Fizz at 3:33 PM on December 26, 2014
Also, in episode 3 of S3 they ride around in a car together when they are tasked with collecting taxes for the Earth Kingdom Queen, there was a definite bonding moment there too. That is when I really started to see the seeds of their relationship. I mostly saw KorrAsami happen in Seasons 3 & 4.
posted by Fizz at 3:33 PM on December 26, 2014
Personally, I kind of like the idea of Makorrasami - not a love triangle but an actual polyamorous relationship, though obviously that will never in a thousand years be on a kids tv show. I've always liked the dynamic between all three of them.
posted by adso at 10:39 AM on December 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by adso at 10:39 AM on December 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
“I have no hatred in my heart for any man’s politics, policies, or faith, any more than I have hatred for termites; but once they start undermining my house where I live, it is time to exterminate them.”--John C. Wright, revealing that the Zombie Heinlein Can't Win thing was less about Heinlein and more about macho entitlement. (Yes, I checked the source.)
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 8:46 AM on December 30, 2014
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posted by smackfu at 7:52 AM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]