That face — it isn't a face, but a mask!
November 9, 2015 8:36 AM Subscribe
At the recent World Fantasy Awards it was announced that the trophy will no longer be modeled on the head of horror writer HP Lovecraft.
No reason for the decision or what will replacing the trophy has yet been stated but past winner Nnedi Okorafor has blogged about feeling conflicted about the award after discovering Lovecraft's explicit racism. There was a petition last year to replace the award with Octavia Butler rather than 'an avowed racist and a terrible wordsmith.' Last year's winner Sofia Samatar brought up the issue in her acceptance speech and later added she thought that the award statue should not represent one person.
No reason for the decision or what will replacing the trophy has yet been stated but past winner Nnedi Okorafor has blogged about feeling conflicted about the award after discovering Lovecraft's explicit racism. There was a petition last year to replace the award with Octavia Butler rather than 'an avowed racist and a terrible wordsmith.' Last year's winner Sofia Samatar brought up the issue in her acceptance speech and later added she thought that the award statue should not represent one person.
Good.
And I say that as a fan of HP lovecraft's work and someone who disagrees heavily with the "poor wordsmith" business. It just wasn't appropriate, for reasons that Okorafor makes abundently clear.
posted by Artw at 8:40 AM on November 9, 2015 [39 favorites]
And I say that as a fan of HP lovecraft's work and someone who disagrees heavily with the "poor wordsmith" business. It just wasn't appropriate, for reasons that Okorafor makes abundently clear.
posted by Artw at 8:40 AM on November 9, 2015 [39 favorites]
Katherine Addison wuz robbed.
Surely there must be some kind of eligibility issue because otherwise this result makes no sense. The Bone Clocks was patchily good at best.
posted by Artw at 8:42 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Surely there must be some kind of eligibility issue because otherwise this result makes no sense. The Bone Clocks was patchily good at best.
posted by Artw at 8:42 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Katherine Addison wuz robbed.
Surely there must be some kind of eligibility issue because otherwise this result makes no sense.
That's what I thought, but no, The Goblin Emperor was nominated. Honestly, people, just because you do one good thing with the award doesn't mean you get to fuck up the rest of it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:45 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Surely there must be some kind of eligibility issue because otherwise this result makes no sense.
That's what I thought, but no, The Goblin Emperor was nominated. Honestly, people, just because you do one good thing with the award doesn't mean you get to fuck up the rest of it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:45 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
> "Katherine Addison wuz robbed."
Katherine Addison won the Locus Award. The Bones Clocks was great and deserves an award too. There's enough to go around.
If you wanted to argue City of Stairs deserved more award love, I'd listen. (As long as it didn't come at the expense of Cuckoo Song or Annihilation.)
posted by kyrademon at 8:47 AM on November 9, 2015
Katherine Addison won the Locus Award. The Bones Clocks was great and deserves an award too. There's enough to go around.
If you wanted to argue City of Stairs deserved more award love, I'd listen. (As long as it didn't come at the expense of Cuckoo Song or Annihilation.)
posted by kyrademon at 8:47 AM on November 9, 2015
Everyone who has won the Lovecraft-face trophy should get the option to trade it in for the one based on Butler.
And wonderful choice--Butler--for the new model.
posted by librosegretti at 8:49 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
And wonderful choice--Butler--for the new model.
posted by librosegretti at 8:49 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
City of Stairs is vastly better than The Bone Clocks also. Sigh.
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on November 9, 2015
Yeah, this is completely understandable. The man had a deep-seated loathing for basically anyone non-white, and made it the core element of a lot of his works. An award celebrating the highlights of human creative endeavors isn't well-represented by someone who deeply despised most of humanity. And of course, the top comment in the article is invariably someone pissing and moaning about the true horrors of political correctness.. the only consolation there is that that cretin will be flensed and burned along with the rest of the screaming human masses when our Great Lord rises once more.
posted by FatherDagon at 8:50 AM on November 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by FatherDagon at 8:50 AM on November 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
Perhaps Vox Day or one of the Sad Puppies can take over the now vacated Lovecraft prize and award it to the best neoreactionary anti-social-justice scifi/fantasy or something.
posted by acb at 8:52 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by acb at 8:52 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Lovecraft's xenophobia (I think "racism" doesn't exactly cover it) is a fine reason to make someone else the model, but I have to call bullshit on the bad writing charge. At least Lovecraft is notably bizarre as a stylist. Many of the Grand Old Men of SF/F/H were simply mediocre writers.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:54 AM on November 9, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:54 AM on November 9, 2015 [18 favorites]
I've been wondering about the Puppy reaction. Really he doesn't seem like their cup of tea. In fact the people who are really into Lovecraft are more often than not people who they'd really despise, as would Lovecraft himself.
posted by Artw at 8:56 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by Artw at 8:56 AM on November 9, 2015
To anyone who objects to this decision, consider that Lovecraft's ghost probably got the screaming willies over the thought of PoC possessing and handling a bust of his head, and he will surely rest easier now.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:01 AM on November 9, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:01 AM on November 9, 2015 [18 favorites]
I've been wondering about the Puppy reaction.
I've not gone looking for then but I have seen some 'hurf durf, SJWs! Politcal Correctness gone mad!' comments.... nothing from the big names though
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:03 AM on November 9, 2015
I've not gone looking for then but I have seen some 'hurf durf, SJWs! Politcal Correctness gone mad!' comments.... nothing from the big names though
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:03 AM on November 9, 2015
I do think Lovecraft was racist and it really shows in his subject matter and the way he wrote. I think you just have to accept it. He had flaws in his writing but I wouldn't say he was a 'terrible wordsmith' overall, I think the petition could have been better worded. I do think for things like this you need something abstract but meaningful as a trophy even if named after / dedicated to a person (like the Hugo's rocket ship)... just as long as they don't go for something too obvious and kitch like an elf or a dragon.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:09 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:09 AM on November 9, 2015
They could have compromised by creating an award featuring H.P. Lovecraft, the late-60s psychedelic band and deodorant pitchmen.
posted by Ian A.T. at 9:10 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ian A.T. at 9:10 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lovecraft's sin was that he let his imp of the perverse out of its box. Had he kept its influence to hysterical verbiage about eldritch effulgences and blasphemous horrors from the stars and the terror of the unknown, all would have been peachy keen, but no, he had to write in his diary about loathsome Italians and black people and how they should all be euthanased and such.
posted by acb at 9:13 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 9:13 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm hoping for a disc on top of four elephants standing on a turtle.
posted by zamboni at 9:14 AM on November 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 9:14 AM on November 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
I've been wondering about the Puppy reaction. Really he doesn't seem like their cup of tea. In fact the people who are really into Lovecraft are more often than not people who they'd really despise, as would Lovecraft himself.
This is not about Lovecraft the weird author. This is about Lovecraft the Victim Of Cultural Marxism. Much in the way that the Murdochian Right has used Charlie Hebdo (a scabrously left-wing magazine, for anyone who reads French) as symbols of the Islamomarxist siege against Judaeo-Christian Market Democracy, the Puppies could use HPL as their iconic martyr.
posted by acb at 9:15 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is not about Lovecraft the weird author. This is about Lovecraft the Victim Of Cultural Marxism. Much in the way that the Murdochian Right has used Charlie Hebdo (a scabrously left-wing magazine, for anyone who reads French) as symbols of the Islamomarxist siege against Judaeo-Christian Market Democracy, the Puppies could use HPL as their iconic martyr.
posted by acb at 9:15 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Lovecraft's sin was that he let his imp of the perverse out of its box
No there's plenty of stuff their in the actual stories... even if you go beyond the abstract invasion of The Other we've got plenty of lumpen half bread 'ape men' and screaming tribesmen and semi-human worshipers and very dodgy immigrant types lurking around
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:19 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
No there's plenty of stuff their in the actual stories... even if you go beyond the abstract invasion of The Other we've got plenty of lumpen half bread 'ape men' and screaming tribesmen and semi-human worshipers and very dodgy immigrant types lurking around
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:19 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wow, I'd already known Lovecraft was racist, specifically from weird anti-Chinese shit I'd seen in his writing and the general xenophobia, but damn, that poem. I mean, desperate scrambles from the deposed, entitled WASPs, and mental illness had to play a part in at least some of it, but I hadn't run across any of his non-letters that didn't have at least something else going on besides overt racism.
posted by klangklangston at 9:21 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 9:21 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
OTOH, there's The Shadow Over Innsmouth, which almost lets itself become a celebration of acceptance in otherness.
posted by acb at 9:22 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by acb at 9:22 AM on November 9, 2015
half bread 'ape men'
I must turn my face away at the mention of the fearful bread-orangs of Hlanith, my mind has not the strength to confront the memories of their yeasty, gibbering horror!
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:25 AM on November 9, 2015 [30 favorites]
I must turn my face away at the mention of the fearful bread-orangs of Hlanith, my mind has not the strength to confront the memories of their yeasty, gibbering horror!
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:25 AM on November 9, 2015 [30 favorites]
OTOH, there's The Shadow Over Innsmouth, which almost lets itself become a celebration of acceptance in otherness.
I dunno, I think that the protagonist's acceptance of his miscegenated fate at the end of the story is supposed to be part of the horror, from Lovecraft's perspective.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:26 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I dunno, I think that the protagonist's acceptance of his miscegenated fate at the end of the story is supposed to be part of the horror, from Lovecraft's perspective.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:26 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
The horror in The Shadow Over Innsmouth is miscegenation, and the ending isn't a celebration of it- you're supposed to be horrified at how the narrator is glorying in his impending transformation.
I love Lovecraft's work- he's cosmic in a way that most of his imitators fail utterly to be, and his voice is so singular even when he's trying to filter it through Poe or Machen or Dunsany, and he's possibly the single most influential horror writer of the 20th century, but part of that has to be acknowledging his racism and not making excuses for it. We can celebrate and value his literary accomplishments without excusing or praising the racist garbage that's shot through it.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:27 AM on November 9, 2015 [20 favorites]
I love Lovecraft's work- he's cosmic in a way that most of his imitators fail utterly to be, and his voice is so singular even when he's trying to filter it through Poe or Machen or Dunsany, and he's possibly the single most influential horror writer of the 20th century, but part of that has to be acknowledging his racism and not making excuses for it. We can celebrate and value his literary accomplishments without excusing or praising the racist garbage that's shot through it.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:27 AM on November 9, 2015 [20 favorites]
I dunno, I think that the protagonist's acceptance of his miscegenated fate at the end of the story is supposed to be part of the horror, from Lovecraft's perspective.
Which could be a tacked-on moralistic ending, like the ones in old bawdy novels, where everyone dies or goes mad as to get past the censors. Only in this case, the censor would have been HPL's superego, and his identification as one of the last scions of the tragically declined gentry.
posted by acb at 9:29 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hell, an easy way to satisfy everyone is to make the award be a bust of Cthulu instead.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:33 AM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:33 AM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
The Shadow Over Innsmouth isn't half bad when compared to Alan Moore's Neonomicon which is an abomination.
Jonathan L. Howard's Carter and Lovecraft, incidentally, is a pretty good book.
posted by sukeban at 9:33 AM on November 9, 2015
Jonathan L. Howard's Carter and Lovecraft, incidentally, is a pretty good book.
posted by sukeban at 9:33 AM on November 9, 2015
Everyone who has won the Lovecraft-face trophy should get the option to trade it in for the one based on Butler.
I don't think they have actually announced what the new award will be, that was just a petition that was unrelated to the organizers.
posted by synthetik at 9:40 AM on November 9, 2015
I don't think they have actually announced what the new award will be, that was just a petition that was unrelated to the organizers.
posted by synthetik at 9:40 AM on November 9, 2015
And wonderful choice--Butler--for the new model.
That was just Older's petition. They haven't actually said what they're replacing the Lovecraft bust with. I'm with Samatar in hoping it's an iconic symbol of some sort rather than a person.
Lovecraft was always a weird choice for the World Fantasy Awards anyway. When you think of Lovecraft, is your first thought The Dreamlands? "H. P. Lovecraft, noted author of 'The White Ship'." -nobody ever
consider that Lovecraft's ghost probably got the screaming willies over the thought
An arch-materialist like Lovecraft would have gotten the screaming willies over the thought of being a ghost.
posted by brianrobot at 9:40 AM on November 9, 2015
That was just Older's petition. They haven't actually said what they're replacing the Lovecraft bust with. I'm with Samatar in hoping it's an iconic symbol of some sort rather than a person.
Lovecraft was always a weird choice for the World Fantasy Awards anyway. When you think of Lovecraft, is your first thought The Dreamlands? "H. P. Lovecraft, noted author of 'The White Ship'." -nobody ever
consider that Lovecraft's ghost probably got the screaming willies over the thought
An arch-materialist like Lovecraft would have gotten the screaming willies over the thought of being a ghost.
posted by brianrobot at 9:40 AM on November 9, 2015
This is great news because it finally opens the way for a trophy modeled on the head of J.R.R. Tolkien.
posted by The Tensor at 9:46 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Tensor at 9:46 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
That would be an improvement over HPL (few things wouldn't), but Haradrim and Easterlings.
posted by sukeban at 9:49 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by sukeban at 9:49 AM on November 9, 2015
Hrm. Serious question for you all. I've been approached to build a Little Free Library for the town of Salem, MA, a town that HPL visited frequently and twisted into his own Arkham, MA. One of my thoughts was to make the little free library in the form of Miskatonic University's Orne Library - basically a mini-library with some tentacles and other HPL references on it.
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:58 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:58 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it's possible to acknowledge and celebrate Lovecraft and his mythos without endorsing his repugnant personal views and problematic story elements, but is there really any need to in this case?
posted by Etrigan at 10:02 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 10:02 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
The horror in The Shadow Over Innsmouth is miscegenation, and the ending isn't a celebration of it- you're supposed to be horrified at how the narrator is glorying in his impending transformation.
This is probably not the place to go into this in detail, but I think part of what makes Lovecraft still interesting to read, long after most of his contemporaries have been quite rightly forgotten by history is that, while Lovecraft probably saw the end of "Shadow" as an extra horror, his fondness for ambiguity left us with a story that can be read multiple ways, giving us something more than frisson to pick out of the pages. Seabury Quinn, who was about as popular as Lovecraft in his heyday, has fallen by the wayside, because his stories are just text -- there is not much gained by digging in them.
I think a problem with selecting any one writer as the image of The World Fantasy Award is that it's such a portmanteau, covering everything from Pratchett to Barker, and almost no one writes that broadly (including Lovecraft). Maybe a rotating award would make sense. It's not like we will run out of really great authors to honor any time soon (I'd like to see Charlotte Gilman be recognized, if only for that one story...).
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:06 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is probably not the place to go into this in detail, but I think part of what makes Lovecraft still interesting to read, long after most of his contemporaries have been quite rightly forgotten by history is that, while Lovecraft probably saw the end of "Shadow" as an extra horror, his fondness for ambiguity left us with a story that can be read multiple ways, giving us something more than frisson to pick out of the pages. Seabury Quinn, who was about as popular as Lovecraft in his heyday, has fallen by the wayside, because his stories are just text -- there is not much gained by digging in them.
I think a problem with selecting any one writer as the image of The World Fantasy Award is that it's such a portmanteau, covering everything from Pratchett to Barker, and almost no one writes that broadly (including Lovecraft). Maybe a rotating award would make sense. It's not like we will run out of really great authors to honor any time soon (I'd like to see Charlotte Gilman be recognized, if only for that one story...).
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:06 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
but is there really any need to in this case?
No, there reall isn't. There isn't really a need for it to be HPL, and there's lots of reasons it shouldn't be, so it's a no brainier really. Should have happened years ago.
posted by Artw at 10:08 AM on November 9, 2015
No, there reall isn't. There isn't really a need for it to be HPL, and there's lots of reasons it shouldn't be, so it's a no brainier really. Should have happened years ago.
posted by Artw at 10:08 AM on November 9, 2015
It makes a certain amount of sense that compelling tales of horror could come from the head of someone who thought truly horrible thoughts.
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:10 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:10 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sorry, "but is there really any need to in this case?" was about robocop is bleeding's LPL idea. I'm totally down with changing the WFA statue.
posted by Etrigan at 10:10 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by Etrigan at 10:10 AM on November 9, 2015
Dammit, not editing to add:
I'm totally down with changing the WFA statue, and I'd say that the difference is that the WFA statue is more about the person than a celebration of the mythos would be.
posted by Etrigan at 10:11 AM on November 9, 2015
I'm totally down with changing the WFA statue, and I'd say that the difference is that the WFA statue is more about the person than a celebration of the mythos would be.
posted by Etrigan at 10:11 AM on November 9, 2015
It makes a certain amount of sense that compelling tales of horror could come from the head of someone who thought truly horrible thoughts.
So much of HPL's work boils down to "the thing that is like me is separate from the thing that is not like me... OH WAIT NOW THEY'RE TOGETHER AND IT'S AWFUL"
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:13 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
So much of HPL's work boils down to "the thing that is like me is separate from the thing that is not like me... OH WAIT NOW THEY'RE TOGETHER AND IT'S AWFUL"
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:13 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
They should just make a bust of last year's winner for the current years trophy.
posted by Mitheral at 10:16 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 10:16 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Don't really have a horse in this race except as a fan, but I think there's a bit of a difference between using imagery from a body of work which has been celebrated through a score of derivative and related works, and using a man's face. The latter implies something of a personal endorsement, and unlike the Nobel committee, I don't know that we have a will that suggests what that endorsement should be.
For similar reasons, I'm ambivalent about giving the award the face of Tolkien, Lewis, or Pratchett. All of the above had strong opinions about what the genre should do, and I'm not convinced the WFAs should have a tacit endorsement of this or that method of writing (or defining) fantasy.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:19 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
For similar reasons, I'm ambivalent about giving the award the face of Tolkien, Lewis, or Pratchett. All of the above had strong opinions about what the genre should do, and I'm not convinced the WFAs should have a tacit endorsement of this or that method of writing (or defining) fantasy.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:19 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Good news. I should think something like a star or an orb would be more appropriate.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:23 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:23 AM on November 9, 2015
a palantir
posted by murphy slaw at 10:25 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:25 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
A cup or bowl, symbolizing the holes in our imaginations that we didn't even know were there before the best writers fill them for us.
posted by Etrigan at 10:26 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Etrigan at 10:26 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
that makes quietly horrifying muffled sauron noises when in a dark room
posted by murphy slaw at 10:26 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:26 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
So much of HPL's work boils down to "the thing that is like me is separate from the thing that is not like me... OH WAIT NOW THEY'RE TOGETHER AND IT'S AWFUL"
HPL protagonists are always thinly veiled versions of HPL and they are always proven to be utterly wrong about everything and everything that they desperately cling on to is proved to be utterly worthless including the specialness of their anglosaxon identity.
It's kind of fascinating.
posted by Artw at 10:27 AM on November 9, 2015 [21 favorites]
HPL protagonists are always thinly veiled versions of HPL and they are always proven to be utterly wrong about everything and everything that they desperately cling on to is proved to be utterly worthless including the specialness of their anglosaxon identity.
It's kind of fascinating.
posted by Artw at 10:27 AM on November 9, 2015 [21 favorites]
Lovecraft's story "The Outsider" is, among other things, a critique of fandom as well as his Anglo heritage, and it pains me that so many people in SF see the monster at the end of the story and never even consider the possibility that they're looking into a mirror.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:28 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 10:28 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hrm. Serious question for you all. I've been approached to build a Little Free Library for the town of Salem, MA, a town that HPL visited frequently and twisted into his own Arkham, MA. One of my thoughts was to make the little free library in the form of Miskatonic University's Orne Library - basically a mini-library with some tentacles and other HPL references on it.
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?
I think it is the Best Idea, why would you not do that?
We can "keep" Lovecraft so long as we a. are honest about the xenophobia and b. appreciate the utter weirdness of his ideas, and the creative possibilities they open up. Appropriation, alternate approaches, borrowing; his work was made for these things, it's the best possible use of them. Fear of giant monsters of the deep, ancient curses from before humanity existed, loss of identity to a gooey body horror and so on, are useful and fun ideas for building a story. He had just enough brilliance to come up with ideas that can survive being used in non-racist ways. Even though he used them in racist ways.
As for the award, I think it needs to be something simple and not anyone's face.
posted by emjaybee at 10:30 AM on November 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?
I think it is the Best Idea, why would you not do that?
We can "keep" Lovecraft so long as we a. are honest about the xenophobia and b. appreciate the utter weirdness of his ideas, and the creative possibilities they open up. Appropriation, alternate approaches, borrowing; his work was made for these things, it's the best possible use of them. Fear of giant monsters of the deep, ancient curses from before humanity existed, loss of identity to a gooey body horror and so on, are useful and fun ideas for building a story. He had just enough brilliance to come up with ideas that can survive being used in non-racist ways. Even though he used them in racist ways.
As for the award, I think it needs to be something simple and not anyone's face.
posted by emjaybee at 10:30 AM on November 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
My favorite suggestion so far is a chimera (hat tip to Nick Mamatas for that) -- it's not as predictable as a dragon, and it suggests fantasy as something that's made up of all different kinds of tropes, styles, genres, and influences. Much as I like Pratchett, or Butler, or anybody else you could choose as a source for the award, I think almost anything you could choose would convey the idea that fantasy is "THIS and not THAT" -- a dragon would imply high fantasy or epic fantasy -- and I'd rather something that acknowledges just how big fantasy is.
posted by Jeanne at 10:30 AM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Jeanne at 10:30 AM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
Well now I'm going to be disappointed if it's anything other than a chimera.
posted by brianrobot at 10:32 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by brianrobot at 10:32 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
We can "keep" Lovecraft so long as we a. are honest about the xenophobia and b. appreciate the utter weirdness of his ideas, and the creative possibilities they open up.
Something else worth celebrating about Lovecraft is his reticence to explain. He has a reputation of explaining too much, and complaining about his tendency to say "it was indescribable! [4 sentences of specific description]" is kind of cliche, but it's often wrong -- the description is usually full of contradictions that create vivid images in the spaces between them -- perhaps his "A mountain walked or stumbled." is the shortest example of a description that describes nothing but lets the reader try and put the parts together into some kind of personal image. This is not a trait taken up by many of his would-be disciples (Derleth and Carter being notoriously bad at it) -- but those who get the centrality to "The Weird" of this ambiguity and failure to explain can be great. I read a bunch of Caitlín Kiernan this year, and, besides being the writer of the best description of RI in summer I have ever seen, she is expert at giving you just enough imaginative rope to let you hang yourself with your own fear.
I'd argue that this approach predates Lovercraft (M.R. James' stories usually benefit from gaps in the story and somewhat unsatisfying explanations which leave you staring at your own bookshelves with considerable nervousness), but Lovecraft really honed it to a sharpness. Even when he does explain (like in "At the Mountains of Madness" and "A Shadow out of Time"), the narrator's lack of real knowledge to back up their exlanations is pretty apparent on rereading.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:04 AM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
Something else worth celebrating about Lovecraft is his reticence to explain. He has a reputation of explaining too much, and complaining about his tendency to say "it was indescribable! [4 sentences of specific description]" is kind of cliche, but it's often wrong -- the description is usually full of contradictions that create vivid images in the spaces between them -- perhaps his "A mountain walked or stumbled." is the shortest example of a description that describes nothing but lets the reader try and put the parts together into some kind of personal image. This is not a trait taken up by many of his would-be disciples (Derleth and Carter being notoriously bad at it) -- but those who get the centrality to "The Weird" of this ambiguity and failure to explain can be great. I read a bunch of Caitlín Kiernan this year, and, besides being the writer of the best description of RI in summer I have ever seen, she is expert at giving you just enough imaginative rope to let you hang yourself with your own fear.
I'd argue that this approach predates Lovercraft (M.R. James' stories usually benefit from gaps in the story and somewhat unsatisfying explanations which leave you staring at your own bookshelves with considerable nervousness), but Lovecraft really honed it to a sharpness. Even when he does explain (like in "At the Mountains of Madness" and "A Shadow out of Time"), the narrator's lack of real knowledge to back up their exlanations is pretty apparent on rereading.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:04 AM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
How about making the award a composite of the faces of all the previous winners of the award?
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:11 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:11 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
ovecraft's story "The Outsider" is, among other things, a critique of fandom as well as his Anglo heritage, and it pains me that so many people in SF see the monster at the end of the story and never even consider the possibility that they're looking into a mirror.
The Boy Who Followed Lovecraft by Marc Laidlaw
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
The Boy Who Followed Lovecraft by Marc Laidlaw
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Lovecraft got less racist in later years. (Here's an article about him and his racism)
Also, yeah, I agree with Sofia Samatar that the award shouldn't be an image of any one person. Not just because the person's background may be terrible or fantastic but because it also ends up inadvertently comparing the award winner with the writer on the award. just my two cents.
Oh, and "a terrible wordsmith"? That's a weird criticism of Lovecraft.
posted by I-baLL at 11:19 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, yeah, I agree with Sofia Samatar that the award shouldn't be an image of any one person. Not just because the person's background may be terrible or fantastic but because it also ends up inadvertently comparing the award winner with the writer on the award. just my two cents.
Oh, and "a terrible wordsmith"? That's a weird criticism of Lovecraft.
posted by I-baLL at 11:19 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
A tree - The World Tree and the Enchanted Forest and scary woods (thanks brain... now can we get on with what we are supposed to be doing)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:21 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:21 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Lovecraft got less racist in later years.
""Lovecraft became less racist as he aged. By the end of his life, he may not have been racist at all."
He may also have become a ghoul; you never know. Much as I like Lovecraft's work, I don't think he became less racist as he got older. He ghost wrote "Medusa's Coil" late enough in his life that it was published two years after his death, and that's a story where
SPOILER
the fact that the villain's hair is a separate sentient being and that she's some kind of monstrous cultist/sorceress takes back seat to the fact that she was a mixed race woman who tricked a white man into marrying her. Yeesh.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:38 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
""Lovecraft became less racist as he aged. By the end of his life, he may not have been racist at all."
He may also have become a ghoul; you never know. Much as I like Lovecraft's work, I don't think he became less racist as he got older. He ghost wrote "Medusa's Coil" late enough in his life that it was published two years after his death, and that's a story where
SPOILER
the fact that the villain's hair is a separate sentient being and that she's some kind of monstrous cultist/sorceress takes back seat to the fact that she was a mixed race woman who tricked a white man into marrying her. Yeesh.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:38 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Medusa's Coil isn't quite up there with the racist poem, but it's certainly a major WTF.
posted by Artw at 11:45 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:45 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
What's next, renaming the Mussolini Award for Excellence in Public Transportation to something more acceptable?
posted by blue_beetle at 12:14 PM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 12:14 PM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
yes - the george w bush award for safety in airline travel
posted by pyramid termite at 12:31 PM on November 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 12:31 PM on November 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is not a trait taken up by many of his would-be disciples (Derleth and Carter being notoriously bad at it) -- but those who get the centrality to "The Weird" of this ambiguity and failure to explain can be great.
The most adorable thing about Derleth is that he somehow recognized that Lovecraft was on to something and still took one look at the Mythos and said "well, it certainly won't harm anything to tidy it up a bit."
posted by murphy slaw at 12:36 PM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
The most adorable thing about Derleth is that he somehow recognized that Lovecraft was on to something and still took one look at the Mythos and said "well, it certainly won't harm anything to tidy it up a bit."
posted by murphy slaw at 12:36 PM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
I agree with all who wrote here about accepting Lovecraft as a whole, excellent writing and terrible racism and all. It's not always relevant to know a writer's personal life and views, but in Lovecraft's case it's important and insightful - and of course a little sad.
And I too was always a bit puzzled by his head being the material object awarded for the World Fantasy Awards. The Dream Cycle is the worst.
So this I wholeheartedly support... except for the "terrible wordsmith" thing of course. A few select passages I thought of immediately:
Can it be possible that this planet has actually spawned such things; that human eyes can have truly seen, as objective flesh, what man has hitherto known only in febrile fantasy and tenuous legend?
And yet I saw them in a limitless stream – flopping, hopping, croaking, bleating – surging inhumanly through the spectral moonlight in a grotesque, malignant saraband of fantastic nightmare.
~
Most horrible of all sights are the little unpainted wooden houses remote from traveled ways, usually squatted upon some damp, grassy slope or leaning against some gigantic outcropping of rock. Two hundred years and more they have leaned or squatted there, while the vines have crawled and the trees have swelled and spread. They are almost hidden now in lawless luxuriances of green and guardian shrouds of shadow; but the small-paned windows still stare shockingly, as if blinking through a lethal stupor which wards off madness by dulling the memory of unutterable things.
In such houses have dwelt generations of strange people, whose like the world has never seen. Seized with a gloomy and fanatical belief which exiled them from their kind, their ancestors sought the wilderness for freedom. There the scions of a conquering race indeed flourished free from the restrictions of their fellows, but cowered in an appalling slavery to the dismal phantasms of their own minds. Divorced from the enlightenment of civilization, the strength of these Puritans turned into singular channels; and in their isolation, morbid self-repression, and struggle for life with relentless Nature, there came to them dark furtive traits from the prehistoric depths of their cold Northern heritage. By necessity practical and by philosophy stern, these folk were not beautiful in their sins. Erring as all mortals must, they were forced by their rigid code to seek concealment above all else; so that they came to use less and less taste in what they concealed. Only the silent, sleepy, staring houses in the backwoods can tell all that has lain hidden since the early days; and they are not communicative, being loath to shake off the drowsiness which helps them forget. Sometimes one feels that it would be merciful to tear down these houses, for they must often dream.
~
"An’ this is the important part, young feller – them as turned into fish things an’ went into the water wouldn’t never die. Them things never died excep’ they was kilt violent."
~
"I think I went mad then."
~
And then, of course:
A beast they wrought, in semi-human figure,
Filled it with vice, and called the thing a...
So, yeah. In summary, Lovecraft is a land of contradictions. And racism.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:39 PM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
And I too was always a bit puzzled by his head being the material object awarded for the World Fantasy Awards. The Dream Cycle is the worst.
So this I wholeheartedly support... except for the "terrible wordsmith" thing of course. A few select passages I thought of immediately:
Can it be possible that this planet has actually spawned such things; that human eyes can have truly seen, as objective flesh, what man has hitherto known only in febrile fantasy and tenuous legend?
And yet I saw them in a limitless stream – flopping, hopping, croaking, bleating – surging inhumanly through the spectral moonlight in a grotesque, malignant saraband of fantastic nightmare.
~
Most horrible of all sights are the little unpainted wooden houses remote from traveled ways, usually squatted upon some damp, grassy slope or leaning against some gigantic outcropping of rock. Two hundred years and more they have leaned or squatted there, while the vines have crawled and the trees have swelled and spread. They are almost hidden now in lawless luxuriances of green and guardian shrouds of shadow; but the small-paned windows still stare shockingly, as if blinking through a lethal stupor which wards off madness by dulling the memory of unutterable things.
In such houses have dwelt generations of strange people, whose like the world has never seen. Seized with a gloomy and fanatical belief which exiled them from their kind, their ancestors sought the wilderness for freedom. There the scions of a conquering race indeed flourished free from the restrictions of their fellows, but cowered in an appalling slavery to the dismal phantasms of their own minds. Divorced from the enlightenment of civilization, the strength of these Puritans turned into singular channels; and in their isolation, morbid self-repression, and struggle for life with relentless Nature, there came to them dark furtive traits from the prehistoric depths of their cold Northern heritage. By necessity practical and by philosophy stern, these folk were not beautiful in their sins. Erring as all mortals must, they were forced by their rigid code to seek concealment above all else; so that they came to use less and less taste in what they concealed. Only the silent, sleepy, staring houses in the backwoods can tell all that has lain hidden since the early days; and they are not communicative, being loath to shake off the drowsiness which helps them forget. Sometimes one feels that it would be merciful to tear down these houses, for they must often dream.
~
"An’ this is the important part, young feller – them as turned into fish things an’ went into the water wouldn’t never die. Them things never died excep’ they was kilt violent."
~
"I think I went mad then."
~
And then, of course:
A beast they wrought, in semi-human figure,
Filled it with vice, and called the thing a...
So, yeah. In summary, Lovecraft is a land of contradictions. And racism.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:39 PM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
How about making the award a composite of the faces of all the previous winners of the award?
That would be a highly (though not entirely) white male composite.
posted by Etrigan at 12:42 PM on November 9, 2015
That would be a highly (though not entirely) white male composite.
posted by Etrigan at 12:42 PM on November 9, 2015
still might work if it wasn't like, a morphed composite, but rather a hideous creature stitched together from the parts of various authors with visible seams
and far, far too many ears in all the wrong places
posted by murphy slaw at 12:45 PM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
and far, far too many ears in all the wrong places
posted by murphy slaw at 12:45 PM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
Some men just want to watch the world Fantasy Awards burn.
posted by Etrigan at 1:01 PM on November 9, 2015
posted by Etrigan at 1:01 PM on November 9, 2015
"One of my thoughts was to make the little free library in the form of Miskatonic University's Orne Library - basically a mini-library with some tentacles and other HPL references on it.
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?"
How do you feel about The Reanimator?
posted by klangklangston at 1:02 PM on November 9, 2015
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?"
How do you feel about The Reanimator?
posted by klangklangston at 1:02 PM on November 9, 2015
Oh, and "a terrible wordsmith"? That's a weird criticism of Lovecraft.
Yeah, I don't like this impulse to condemn the works with the man. The creation is not the creator.
Like, I'm a Jew. I also enjoy the works of Richard Wagner. Wagner wrote many terrible things about Jews, but that doesn't make him a bad composer, it just makes him an anti-Semite who made great music.
I've seen this unfortunately come up recently with Woody Allen: he's bad and oh yeah all his films are terrible too. If that's your opinion of his movies that's one thing, but if you're condemning his films because he himself is terrible that's another.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:02 PM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I don't like this impulse to condemn the works with the man. The creation is not the creator.
Like, I'm a Jew. I also enjoy the works of Richard Wagner. Wagner wrote many terrible things about Jews, but that doesn't make him a bad composer, it just makes him an anti-Semite who made great music.
I've seen this unfortunately come up recently with Woody Allen: he's bad and oh yeah all his films are terrible too. If that's your opinion of his movies that's one thing, but if you're condemning his films because he himself is terrible that's another.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:02 PM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
kittens for breakfast: "Lovecraft's xenophobia (I think "racism" doesn't exactly cover it) is a fine reason to make someone else the model, but I have to call bullshit on the bad writing charge. At least Lovecraft is notably bizarre as a stylist. Many of the Grand Old Men of SF/F/H were simply mediocre writers."
I will fall back on the position I use when people say such things or mention Central European countries with better Internet than the U.S.A. -
"It's easy to do it better when you come to the game much later."
posted by Samizdata at 1:13 PM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I will fall back on the position I use when people say such things or mention Central European countries with better Internet than the U.S.A. -
"It's easy to do it better when you come to the game much later."
posted by Samizdata at 1:13 PM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
robocop is bleeding: "Hrm. Serious question for you all. I've been approached to build a Little Free Library for the town of Salem, MA, a town that HPL visited frequently and twisted into his own Arkham, MA. One of my thoughts was to make the little free library in the form of Miskatonic University's Orne Library - basically a mini-library with some tentacles and other HPL references on it.
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?"
I've got my Bachelor's in Medieval Metaphysics from Miskatonic hanging framed on my wall.
Maybe not the best person to ask.
posted by Samizdata at 1:15 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?"
I've got my Bachelor's in Medieval Metaphysics from Miskatonic hanging framed on my wall.
Maybe not the best person to ask.
posted by Samizdata at 1:15 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
klangklangston: ""One of my thoughts was to make the little free library in the form of Miskatonic University's Orne Library - basically a mini-library with some tentacles and other HPL references on it.
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?"
How do you feel about The Reanimator?"
I also used Dr. Herbert West as my air name when I used to do a shift at a pirate radio station in California.
posted by Samizdata at 1:19 PM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is this a Good Idea or Bad Idea?"
How do you feel about The Reanimator?"
I also used Dr. Herbert West as my air name when I used to do a shift at a pirate radio station in California.
posted by Samizdata at 1:19 PM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Maybe just a wardrobe, since that's where so many people started when they were kids, anyway. But it would lend itself to such horrible jokes.
posted by dilettante at 1:28 PM on November 9, 2015
posted by dilettante at 1:28 PM on November 9, 2015
> How about making the award a composite of the faces of all the previous winners of the award?
At first, I misread this as "the feces of all the previous winners" and, while I didn't immediately reject it as a terrible idea, I spent a while trying to figure out how that would even work. Some of the past recipients are dead, for example: what would you use as a model in those cases? Plus, like snowflakes, every turd is unique: how would you ever decide which feces to serve as your contribution? And is this even appropriate for an award that's supposed to be an unironic honor? I mean, maybe a stylized version would still be better than Lovecraft, who knows, but even so, some other people have had good ideas, more subject-appropriate. Etc. And then I hit Etrigan's comment.
Oh. Faces. That was "faces."
MetaFilter: how would you ever decide which feces to serve as your contribution?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:30 PM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
At first, I misread this as "the feces of all the previous winners" and, while I didn't immediately reject it as a terrible idea, I spent a while trying to figure out how that would even work. Some of the past recipients are dead, for example: what would you use as a model in those cases? Plus, like snowflakes, every turd is unique: how would you ever decide which feces to serve as your contribution? And is this even appropriate for an award that's supposed to be an unironic honor? I mean, maybe a stylized version would still be better than Lovecraft, who knows, but even so, some other people have had good ideas, more subject-appropriate. Etc. And then I hit Etrigan's comment.
Oh. Faces. That was "faces."
MetaFilter: how would you ever decide which feces to serve as your contribution?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:30 PM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would say exactly what Artw said in the second comment, had he not already said it.
posted by JHarris at 1:43 PM on November 9, 2015
posted by JHarris at 1:43 PM on November 9, 2015
After seeing the Tiptree Art Award for Rupetta my idea would be new sculptural art incorporating common logo or motif from year to year. The central figure might be pulled from the current winner, something from past works, or selected from world fantasy and folklore.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:13 PM on November 9, 2015
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:13 PM on November 9, 2015
I do think Lovecraft was racist and it really shows in his subject matter and the way he wrote.
Yes. Racism and xenophobia is at the heart of his brand of cosmic horror and the best Lovecraftian fiction doesn't shy away from this, but engages it head on. Ruthanna Emrys' "The Litany of Earth" frex.
You cannot cleave the man from his writing in this case, nor can you make the mistake of dismissing it all as worthless trash. There is a genuine fear at the heart of his writing besides the xenophobia, the fear of somebody living in an age that had seen the overturning of all the safe comfortable truths humanity had clung to for centuries, an age that had seen the universe revealed to be so much older and larger than human imagination could ever concieve and built on stranger laws.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:44 PM on November 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yes. Racism and xenophobia is at the heart of his brand of cosmic horror and the best Lovecraftian fiction doesn't shy away from this, but engages it head on. Ruthanna Emrys' "The Litany of Earth" frex.
You cannot cleave the man from his writing in this case, nor can you make the mistake of dismissing it all as worthless trash. There is a genuine fear at the heart of his writing besides the xenophobia, the fear of somebody living in an age that had seen the overturning of all the safe comfortable truths humanity had clung to for centuries, an age that had seen the universe revealed to be so much older and larger than human imagination could ever concieve and built on stranger laws.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:44 PM on November 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
I do think that's why some of the Lovecraft fans react so badly to his racism being pointed out. Because it really is unpleasant to admire how repulsive he makes his strange New Englanders with bloodlines from horrid unearthly creatures... and then read his letters talking about *real life people* in exactly the same terms. It makes your admiration morally questionable (and I am indeed among those who admired his writing and then found out more about him.)
posted by tavella at 3:02 PM on November 9, 2015
posted by tavella at 3:02 PM on November 9, 2015
Hell, an easy way to satisfy everyone is to make the award be a bust of Cthulu instead.
I don't know much about statuary, but my research (mostly rummaging through my deceased uncle's papers) suggests that owning a bust of Cthulhu seldom ends well.
posted by No-sword at 3:11 PM on November 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
I don't know much about statuary, but my research (mostly rummaging through my deceased uncle's papers) suggests that owning a bust of Cthulhu seldom ends well.
posted by No-sword at 3:11 PM on November 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
Lovercraft
The vessel rested unsteadily atop the darkened, noisome waters, and as I approached it, the sound of a loathsome squirming assailed my ears. I knew I should turn back, but an ineffable suggestion drew me ever closer, a suggestion I was powerless to resist, and after a few more footsteps I could see all too clearly that the lovercraft was full of eels!
posted by brianrobot at 4:01 PM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
The vessel rested unsteadily atop the darkened, noisome waters, and as I approached it, the sound of a loathsome squirming assailed my ears. I knew I should turn back, but an ineffable suggestion drew me ever closer, a suggestion I was powerless to resist, and after a few more footsteps I could see all too clearly that the lovercraft was full of eels!
posted by brianrobot at 4:01 PM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
Lovecraft got less racist in later years.
Had the Hounds of Tindalos not claimed him prematurely at the age of 47, he may well have ended up a little like that other enlightened ex-racist, Hergé. We may have remembered him for the vaguely Borgesian works of humanistic fantasy he wrote in the 60s, with a footnote about the unsavoury pulps he started on half a century earlier.
posted by acb at 5:42 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Had the Hounds of Tindalos not claimed him prematurely at the age of 47, he may well have ended up a little like that other enlightened ex-racist, Hergé. We may have remembered him for the vaguely Borgesian works of humanistic fantasy he wrote in the 60s, with a footnote about the unsavoury pulps he started on half a century earlier.
posted by acb at 5:42 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Didn't he basically die of a stomach cancer linked to long-term, chronic malnutrition? Just think if he'd had food stamps and access to medical care.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:12 PM on November 9, 2015
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:12 PM on November 9, 2015
As for Lovecraft the artist, I became obsessed with him many years ago and loved his Cthulu mythos. I think they are still truly ground breaking stories. But...over time I've concluded that his prose is rather more purple than innovative. The exposition and information dumps are ham-fisted and exhausting, and no interesting character arc is to be found.
As for Lovecraft the racist...fuck him. Yeah, I know, a product of his age, yadda yadda. I can still separate my admiration for his art, but as a public figure, the writer as persona, well, just screw that side of him ten ways from Sunday.
posted by zardoz at 10:42 PM on November 9, 2015
As for Lovecraft the racist...fuck him. Yeah, I know, a product of his age, yadda yadda. I can still separate my admiration for his art, but as a public figure, the writer as persona, well, just screw that side of him ten ways from Sunday.
posted by zardoz at 10:42 PM on November 9, 2015
Didn't he basically die of a stomach cancer linked to long-term, chronic malnutrition?
I read a biography of Lovecraft a while back and remember his diet being more horrific than his prose... endless stretches of just white bread and beans.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:35 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I read a biography of Lovecraft a while back and remember his diet being more horrific than his prose... endless stretches of just white bread and beans.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:35 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh and the time used a tin of chocolate powder to make a drink that was years past its used by date... seem to remember he described it as 'somewhat earthy.' Plus the times he just flat out did not eat because he had no money.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:38 AM on November 10, 2015
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:38 AM on November 10, 2015
Lovecraft wasn't a terrible wordsmith. Lovecraft was a hilarious wordsmith.
posted by maxsparber at 4:31 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maxsparber at 4:31 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lovecraft wasn't a terrible wordsmith. Lovecraft was a hilarious wordsmith.
“Lovecraft puts the ultraviolet in purple prose.” (Not sure who said that originally.)
posted by acb at 5:59 AM on November 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
“Lovecraft puts the ultraviolet in purple prose.” (Not sure who said that originally.)
posted by acb at 5:59 AM on November 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
I wonder if this is when we've hit peak Lovecraft.
He's undergone a tremendous boom over the past couple of decades, leading to an American Library edition, popular plushies, still more games, growing recognition, etc.
Maybe this is as far as it gets, and HPL's rep starts sliding down from here.
posted by doctornemo at 6:20 AM on November 10, 2015
He's undergone a tremendous boom over the past couple of decades, leading to an American Library edition, popular plushies, still more games, growing recognition, etc.
Maybe this is as far as it gets, and HPL's rep starts sliding down from here.
posted by doctornemo at 6:20 AM on November 10, 2015
OTOH, the Cthulhu Mythos is the last mythos that is not a staked-out stretch of corporate intellectual property. Everything that came after it (DC/Marvel, Star Wars, Tolkien, &c.) is locked up tight and subject to strict licensing conditions, so we may have to do with Lovecraft and paper over the more egregiously racist bits.
posted by acb at 6:38 AM on November 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by acb at 6:38 AM on November 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
I just discovered that the name Asenath from "The Thing on the Doorstep" is a Biblical name meaning "She belongs to her father".
Reeeeeeaaaaalllllll subtle, Howard.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:23 AM on November 10, 2015
Reeeeeeaaaaalllllll subtle, Howard.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:23 AM on November 10, 2015
Del Toro's attempt at doing Lovecraft bounced off the studios, which is another reason why I think the design shouldn't be tied to any particular author or body of work. Just because it's not a blockbuster movie franchise today doesn't mean it won't be tomorrow. Commissioning an original design would make the WFA trophy it's own thing as opposed to derivative of this or that estate.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:45 AM on November 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:45 AM on November 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Although a trophy based on the Harryhausen Medusa would be fucking cool.)
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:49 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:49 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Perhaps they can give Joshi a special award that's a pram with some removeable toys he can throw out
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:32 AM on November 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:32 AM on November 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've not been paying as much attention to him of recent years - partly because he's no longer the only notable Lovecraft scholar in town and there's other more interesting guys, partly because he's been a bit pissy about that, but I hadn't realized he was quite such a jerk off ad given to ranting about "SJWs" and "political correctness" and showing all the other signs that someone is an idiot and should be ignored. It's quite sad, really.
posted by Artw at 8:36 AM on November 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:36 AM on November 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Much like Lovecraft, Joshi is a person who produced some valuable work, but has revealed himself as a rather unpleasant person.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:42 AM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:42 AM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
He's been kind of a dick about this for some time, apparently: It’s OK to admit that H.P. Lovecraft was racist
posted by Artw at 8:48 AM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:48 AM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Zoe Quinn (yes, the Zoe Quinn) has an online quiz up, "Hitler or Lovecraft?"
posted by zombieflanders at 7:15 AM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:15 AM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Heh. 12 out of 14 on that, mainly through prose style. There's a special treat at the end!
posted by Artw at 8:02 AM on November 13, 2015
posted by Artw at 8:02 AM on November 13, 2015
"Hitler or Lovecraft?"
Just a warning for anyone else who takes that quiz at work because fuck you it's a slow Friday: There are a lot of very large and umistakable pictures of Hitler on that quiz, so check your workspace.
posted by Etrigan at 8:22 AM on November 13, 2015
Just a warning for anyone else who takes that quiz at work because fuck you it's a slow Friday: There are a lot of very large and umistakable pictures of Hitler on that quiz, so check your workspace.
posted by Etrigan at 8:22 AM on November 13, 2015
They are sparkly, however.
posted by maxsparber at 8:24 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 8:24 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Are the pictures squamous or tenebrous?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:52 AM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:52 AM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Jeff Vandermeer has found the solution:
I heard that the new World Fantasy Award won't be a person or even a trophy-format. It'll be a Mexican wrestler mask w/ championship belt.posted by zamboni at 8:57 AM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
One of the best things about the rise of social media is finding out what a lovable goof Jeff Vandermeer is.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:04 AM on November 13, 2015
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:04 AM on November 13, 2015
very large
I think you mean 'cyclopean'
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:35 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think you mean 'cyclopean'
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:35 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Are the pictures squamous or tenebrous?
Mostly oblong.
posted by sukeban at 10:08 AM on November 13, 2015
Mostly oblong.
posted by sukeban at 10:08 AM on November 13, 2015
It's built along non-Euclidean geometry, damn you!
posted by maxsparber at 10:10 AM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 10:10 AM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
S.T. Joshi is Mad as Hell
‘Political Correctness’ Won’t Ruin H.P. Lovecraft’s Legacy
posted by Artw at 7:18 AM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
‘Political Correctness’ Won’t Ruin H.P. Lovecraft’s Legacy
posted by Artw at 7:18 AM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, if it won't ruin his legacy, he's got nothing to be complain about.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:10 AM on November 14, 2015
posted by Chrysostom at 9:10 AM on November 14, 2015
Really what Joshi is doing is a fitting tribute, as if there's one thing HPL liked, except racism (and cats and icecream) it was complaining about things in a fairly meaningless way.
posted by Artw at 9:18 AM on November 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:18 AM on November 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Going a bit archival, here are some posts from Jason Colavito's blog about the war of words between Joshi and Older over the Howard bust, and the subsequent war of words between Joshi and anyone who wants to talk about Lovecraft's racism:
S. T. Joshi: People Who Aren't Famous Have No Right to Criticize Lovecraft for Racism (8/26/14)
Lovecraft and the Debate Over Scientific Racism (9/2/14)
S. T. Joshi Can't Stop Ranting About Lovecraft and Race (9/22/14, includes a line from Lovecraft's letters where he puts "social justice" in scare quotes)
S. T. Joshi Blasts Critics Over Lovecraft and Race (Again) (2/8/15)
posted by brianrobot at 12:39 PM on November 14, 2015
S. T. Joshi: People Who Aren't Famous Have No Right to Criticize Lovecraft for Racism (8/26/14)
Lovecraft and the Debate Over Scientific Racism (9/2/14)
S. T. Joshi Can't Stop Ranting About Lovecraft and Race (9/22/14, includes a line from Lovecraft's letters where he puts "social justice" in scare quotes)
S. T. Joshi Blasts Critics Over Lovecraft and Race (Again) (2/8/15)
posted by brianrobot at 12:39 PM on November 14, 2015
I mean, let's take his argument at face value, the background racism of the era was off the charts and Lovecraft is just a hair arabica that... Why must the award be a bust of someone from that era?
Also everyone else doesn't have that fucking poem.
posted by Artw at 12:58 PM on November 14, 2015
Also everyone else doesn't have that fucking poem.
posted by Artw at 12:58 PM on November 14, 2015
In September, Joshi criticized Robert M. Price for thinking that Lovecraft, if he were alive today, would be "aligned with contemporary conservative thought and be opposed to affirmative action and political correctness!"
Joshi's blog (he doesn't do direct links; skim down to September 1, 2015 for the source of my quote)
A discussion of the Robert M. Price speech Joshi's talking about
posted by brianrobot at 1:04 PM on November 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Joshi's blog (he doesn't do direct links; skim down to September 1, 2015 for the source of my quote)
A discussion of the Robert M. Price speech Joshi's talking about
posted by brianrobot at 1:04 PM on November 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Why must the award be a bust of someone from that era?
The best argument for the award being a bust of Lovecraft is that he is really really important to the history of weird fiction and horror. He is, probably, the single most influential writer in that broad genre. No one else really comes close (I mean, maybe King, but King doesn't exist without Lovecraft, so...), so, since the award is meant to acknowledge the work rather than the man, who would be a better choice?
Of course, the problem with that is that the WFA doesn't just go to writers of weird fiction -- there are all those categories of fantasy that HPL didn't write, so how can he represent them? So, racism aside, "the Howie" is kind of a strange mascot for the award, and I can't think of anyone else who does a better job of covering the full range of fantasy (maybe Robert E. Howard? I seem to remember that CL Moore did some horror themed stuff along with the fantasy and SF... maybe Fritz Leiber? Anyone more recent tends to be alive, so that's not the best plan...) Anyway, I think the best solution is to come up with a more abstract award that gives a sense of the breadth of the kind of story.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:12 PM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The best argument for the award being a bust of Lovecraft is that he is really really important to the history of weird fiction and horror. He is, probably, the single most influential writer in that broad genre. No one else really comes close (I mean, maybe King, but King doesn't exist without Lovecraft, so...), so, since the award is meant to acknowledge the work rather than the man, who would be a better choice?
Of course, the problem with that is that the WFA doesn't just go to writers of weird fiction -- there are all those categories of fantasy that HPL didn't write, so how can he represent them? So, racism aside, "the Howie" is kind of a strange mascot for the award, and I can't think of anyone else who does a better job of covering the full range of fantasy (maybe Robert E. Howard? I seem to remember that CL Moore did some horror themed stuff along with the fantasy and SF... maybe Fritz Leiber? Anyone more recent tends to be alive, so that's not the best plan...) Anyway, I think the best solution is to come up with a more abstract award that gives a sense of the breadth of the kind of story.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:12 PM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Howard's pretty racist at times also, TBH.
posted by Artw at 1:14 PM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:14 PM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
In September, Joshi criticized Robert M. Price for thinking that Lovecraft, if he were alive today, would be "aligned with contemporary conservative thought and be opposed to affirmative action and political correctness!"
That's not a bad potted description of the ceremony, although Joshi left out the stifling heat (I felt bad for the guys from Big Nazo Labs in their foam rubber "inhuman cultist" costumes) and the way that a huge portion of it was a repeat of the ceremony from two years before. The Kilinger portion of the show was rambling and very "Lovecraft 101," but then it was followed by Price's bizarre rant, which was offensive and, based on the reactions of the audience, rather ill-timed. I suspect that the awkward box pews of the First Baptist church (and maybe the heat) kept people from just leaving in protest (I was trapped or i would have walked out). I later learned that Price had submitted his speech, been told not to give it in lieu of the brief joke prayer the event organizer had asked for, then gave his diatribe anyway. I gather the representatives of the Mayor and City (which had been pretty supportive of the two conventions) were Not Pleased by Mr. Price's antics.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:20 PM on November 14, 2015
That's not a bad potted description of the ceremony, although Joshi left out the stifling heat (I felt bad for the guys from Big Nazo Labs in their foam rubber "inhuman cultist" costumes) and the way that a huge portion of it was a repeat of the ceremony from two years before. The Kilinger portion of the show was rambling and very "Lovecraft 101," but then it was followed by Price's bizarre rant, which was offensive and, based on the reactions of the audience, rather ill-timed. I suspect that the awkward box pews of the First Baptist church (and maybe the heat) kept people from just leaving in protest (I was trapped or i would have walked out). I later learned that Price had submitted his speech, been told not to give it in lieu of the brief joke prayer the event organizer had asked for, then gave his diatribe anyway. I gather the representatives of the Mayor and City (which had been pretty supportive of the two conventions) were Not Pleased by Mr. Price's antics.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:20 PM on November 14, 2015
Howard's pretty racist at times also, TBH.
Sure, although Howard at least gives readers non-white characters who, although often stereotypes,, are at least sometime sympathetic and admirable characters. Anyway, we can avoid the whole unpleasant process of picking a specific person to be the mascot by accepting that the field is too broad for anyone to represent it all and fall back on an abstract or non-human image.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:29 PM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sure, although Howard at least gives readers non-white characters who, although often stereotypes,, are at least sometime sympathetic and admirable characters. Anyway, we can avoid the whole unpleasant process of picking a specific person to be the mascot by accepting that the field is too broad for anyone to represent it all and fall back on an abstract or non-human image.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:29 PM on November 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Whilst catching up on the Jason Colavito links above I started to wonder if Joshi is / can be placed into the category of Big A atheists like Dawkins et al who seem to think that merely being an atheist makes you some sort of super-powered rationalist saint that trumps any other character flaws and he's projecting this onto Lovecraft
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:44 AM on November 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:44 AM on November 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
S. T. Joshi: People Who Aren't Famous Have No Right to Criticize Lovecraft for Racism
Hey, you know who wouldn't act like that? Howard fucking Phillips Lovecraft, who downplayed his own work, was a harsher critic of himself than most who criticize him, and spent innumerable hours, gallons of ink, and reams of paper writing to and encouraging and helping to develop young writers at the start of their careers.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:05 AM on November 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hey, you know who wouldn't act like that? Howard fucking Phillips Lovecraft, who downplayed his own work, was a harsher critic of himself than most who criticize him, and spent innumerable hours, gallons of ink, and reams of paper writing to and encouraging and helping to develop young writers at the start of their careers.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:05 AM on November 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Whilst catching up on the Jason Colavito links above I started to wonder if Joshi is...
I dunno, Joshi is clearly showing a bit of the "cranky old man" syndrome where he just wants to state things and have people nod along rather than engaging in debate and defending his ideas, but I think it's important to remember (as an explanation, if not as an excuse) that Joshi is a PoC, and he came to Lovecraft criticism/fandom in the 80s, when he was pretty much in the company of older white men (Robert Price, for example) whose approach was a) very fanish/enthusiastic and b) only a bit scholarly. So, even if Joshi had grappled with Lovecraft's racism, the sheer weight of whiteness of the reader base could well have discouraged him, and he was already fighting an uphill battle to make Lovecraftian criticism focused on scholarship rather than simple fandom.* So he chose not to engage with the racism, and he fought really hard to push Lovecraft as a figure worthy of serious scholarship, and I can see why he's threatened by a new generation of people who are saying various shades of "let's make Lovecraft all about racism; he's a bad man and a bad writer and he shouldn't be studied."
I'm not saying Joshi is right in his arguments. He's welcome to return his awards if he wants, but it reads to me more as a tantrum than a principled stand, and I believe that understanding Lovecraft's racism (and the larger psychological structure that that racism is part of) is an important part of understanding Lovecraft and constantly insisting that there is nothing behind the curtain distracts from Lovecraft and Lovecraft scholarship rather than enhances them. That also is not Joshi's only point about Lovecraft nor even his most prominent outside of the current moment. Joshi's reticence about Lovecraft's racism is very different than, say, Price's denials (followed by racist jokes at the next opportunity).
I think you may have a point about Joshi's atheism affecting his views. I don't really know that much about his personal views, but he significantly downgrades "Dreams in the Witch House" for the crucifix scene since he sees it as implying a value to Christian iconography and feels that's out of place in Lovecraft's "universe."
In the interests of full disclosure, I have had dinner with Joshi, and he was good company, so I perhaps I am giving him more leeway than he deserves.
* Lovecraft, whatever you think of the man as a person, is a pretty interesting focus for scholarly study because he left so much documentation behind -- there are a ton of letter to be mined for glimpses into what he was thinking about when he wrote particular stories, which is not something that literary scholars get to have all that often.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:07 AM on November 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I dunno, Joshi is clearly showing a bit of the "cranky old man" syndrome where he just wants to state things and have people nod along rather than engaging in debate and defending his ideas, but I think it's important to remember (as an explanation, if not as an excuse) that Joshi is a PoC, and he came to Lovecraft criticism/fandom in the 80s, when he was pretty much in the company of older white men (Robert Price, for example) whose approach was a) very fanish/enthusiastic and b) only a bit scholarly. So, even if Joshi had grappled with Lovecraft's racism, the sheer weight of whiteness of the reader base could well have discouraged him, and he was already fighting an uphill battle to make Lovecraftian criticism focused on scholarship rather than simple fandom.* So he chose not to engage with the racism, and he fought really hard to push Lovecraft as a figure worthy of serious scholarship, and I can see why he's threatened by a new generation of people who are saying various shades of "let's make Lovecraft all about racism; he's a bad man and a bad writer and he shouldn't be studied."
I'm not saying Joshi is right in his arguments. He's welcome to return his awards if he wants, but it reads to me more as a tantrum than a principled stand, and I believe that understanding Lovecraft's racism (and the larger psychological structure that that racism is part of) is an important part of understanding Lovecraft and constantly insisting that there is nothing behind the curtain distracts from Lovecraft and Lovecraft scholarship rather than enhances them. That also is not Joshi's only point about Lovecraft nor even his most prominent outside of the current moment. Joshi's reticence about Lovecraft's racism is very different than, say, Price's denials (followed by racist jokes at the next opportunity).
I think you may have a point about Joshi's atheism affecting his views. I don't really know that much about his personal views, but he significantly downgrades "Dreams in the Witch House" for the crucifix scene since he sees it as implying a value to Christian iconography and feels that's out of place in Lovecraft's "universe."
In the interests of full disclosure, I have had dinner with Joshi, and he was good company, so I perhaps I am giving him more leeway than he deserves.
* Lovecraft, whatever you think of the man as a person, is a pretty interesting focus for scholarly study because he left so much documentation behind -- there are a ton of letter to be mined for glimpses into what he was thinking about when he wrote particular stories, which is not something that literary scholars get to have all that often.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:07 AM on November 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
The letter writing is something else about Lovecraft. We know he was racist because he wrote so many letters in which he demonstrates it. How many other writers do we know nothing about other than their published writing, who were as racist, but we don't know it?
posted by JHarris at 5:39 PM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 5:39 PM on November 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
THE NEW WORLD FANTASY AWARD: WHAT’S NEXT?
Artist and previous award winner John Picacio has some interesting thoughts on the matter (TL:DR pick a really good contemporary fantasy sculptor and let them lead the process of a new award design)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:31 AM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Artist and previous award winner John Picacio has some interesting thoughts on the matter (TL:DR pick a really good contemporary fantasy sculptor and let them lead the process of a new award design)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:31 AM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
The first question should be, “Who are the best sculptors and who is the sculptor that can best elevate this award toward a new timeless icon? Who can carry this responsibility? Who can take us to a place we could not have imagined on our own?”I like that idea.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:23 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Joshi put up a blog post on November 19 in which he wondered about Ellen Datlow's "moral compass," said that Jeff VanderMeer has "a certain deficiency of brainpower," called Daniel Jose Older "a racist," and generally further pursued his notion that changing the World Fantasy Award bust was stage one in a grand plan to erase Lovecraft from culture. Another blog, The Arkham Digest, has reacted with "deep and profound sadness":
I'm a huge fan of Lovecraft, and I'm all for the award changing. It's that simple. Joshi and friends are smart enough that they should be able to understand that the award change does not mean that Lovecraft's influence is trying to be denied or pushed aside or covered up. There is no reason for the ugliness we are now all experiencing.posted by brianrobot at 1:45 PM on November 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
[...] Joshi goes on to say that all of these authors and editors will be forgotten while Lovecraft's legacy will remain, a petty and gross thing to say, taking the issue of the statue change to a very personal level.
And the situation is not limited to Joshi. Associates are now circling wagons. Some publishers are now deciding not to publish people for being on one side of the issue. The "Old Guard" and the "New Blood" seem to be truly at odds for the first time, and it's really not pretty at all.
World Fantasy Award Call for Submissions
The Administration has decided that it is time to change the trophy for the World Fantasy Awards. We appreciate Gahan Wilson's design in use for more than four decades and his contributions to the World Fantasy Convention and the Awards.
Between now and April 2, 2016 the World Fantasy Awards Administration will welcome submissions from artists within the arts community proficient in the three-dimensional form, for a new physical trophy for the World Fantasy Award. The ideal design will represent both fantasy and horror, without bearing any physical resemblance to any person, living or dead.
Interested artists should send inquiries to the WFA administration at: worldfantasyawarddesign@gmail.com.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:38 AM on November 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
The Administration has decided that it is time to change the trophy for the World Fantasy Awards. We appreciate Gahan Wilson's design in use for more than four decades and his contributions to the World Fantasy Convention and the Awards.
Between now and April 2, 2016 the World Fantasy Awards Administration will welcome submissions from artists within the arts community proficient in the three-dimensional form, for a new physical trophy for the World Fantasy Award. The ideal design will represent both fantasy and horror, without bearing any physical resemblance to any person, living or dead.
Interested artists should send inquiries to the WFA administration at: worldfantasyawarddesign@gmail.com.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:38 AM on November 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Seriously, shitting on Ellen Datlow? WTFF.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:13 AM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:13 AM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Looks like it wasn't a one off tantrum and Joshi needs to go in exile to turd mountain forever.
posted by Artw at 11:15 AM on November 24, 2015
posted by Artw at 11:15 AM on November 24, 2015
No brain, you do not want to write a filk, 'ST Joshi Turd Mountain' to the tune of 'Big Rock Candy Mountain'.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:26 PM on November 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:26 PM on November 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ellen Datlow? What kind of an idiot targets her as insufficiently supportive of HPL's legacy?
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:33 PM on November 24, 2015
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:33 PM on November 24, 2015
She doesn't do the mental gymnastics required to not see him as a racist, and therefore is an illegitimate opportunist who has edited a half dozen anthologies of Lovecraftian fiction out of spite.
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on November 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on November 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'll give Joshi the benefit of the doubt that it was a badly done Poe's law meets reducto ad absurdum.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:18 PM on November 24, 2015
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:18 PM on November 24, 2015
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posted by Etrigan at 8:38 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]