US Presidential Election Roundup: But If You Had to Choose
July 12, 2016 9:07 AM   Subscribe

 
New election thread so we can retire this old gal.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:08 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


$27
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 AM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


At this point, I'm waiting to see if they can set the river on fire again.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:10 AM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]


Talk less! Smile more!
Don't let them know what you're against or what you're for!
Shake hands with him, charm her!
...
Maybe root for that meteor full of space bugs from BrainDead?
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:11 AM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


Now that Bernie has endorsed Hillary, let's stop bickering and get busy kicking Trump's ass.
posted by double block and bleed at 9:12 AM on July 12, 2016 [146 favorites]


Trump rebukes Ginsberg.

"Really, the best minds of your generation? I will tell you, I have the BEST minds of our generation, they are such the best minds, you won't believe it."
posted by hippybear at 9:12 AM on July 12, 2016 [89 favorites]


Not 100% sure if this was posted in the other thread, but I highly recommend Ezra Klein's new piece on Hillary Clinton: Why the Clinton America Sees isn't the Clinton Colleagues Know.

I think he really explains the structural misogyny that's held Clinton back so far. Fully understanding this imbalance is key to addressing and fixing it.
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:13 AM on July 12, 2016 [75 favorites]


New thread - Yay! My Ipod thanks you.
posted by wittgenstein at 9:14 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


It was in the other thread, 0xFCAF, but it certainly deserves a repost. Great article.
posted by defenestration at 9:14 AM on July 12, 2016


Pretty sure I just heard her say she's going to block the TPP in that speech. That's a pleasant surprise to me, to say the least. Last I'd heard it was less-conclusive "don't support" language.
posted by Phyltre at 9:14 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hearing Clinton talk about "voodoo economics" is giving like the weirdest fond nostalgia feelings.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:15 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm waiting to see if they can set the river on fire again.

Spencer Tunick is doing his part to get some flames going, with a well-timed art installation.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:16 AM on July 12, 2016


Now that Bernie has endorsed Hillary, let's stop bickering and get busy kicking Trump's ass.

/r/SFP is flipping the fuck out and will see the country burn under Trump before they vote for Shillary.
posted by Talez at 9:18 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


Listening to Clinton right now- gods, how is it I am still able to pull hope out of the bottomless bag of pessimism that politics has gifted me with?
posted by Mooski at 9:19 AM on July 12, 2016 [13 favorites]


There are a couple of organizations that have popped up over the last few months aimed at getting more Progressive candidates elected to Congress. One is Brand New Congress.

Background
posted by zarq at 9:19 AM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


Trump rebukes Ginsburg.

Right back atcha, says the Notorious R.B.G.: "He is a faker. {...} He has no consistency about him. He says whatever comes into his head at the moment. He really has an ego. ... How has he gotten away with not turning over his tax returns? The press seems to be very gentle with him on that."
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:19 AM on July 12, 2016 [49 favorites]


Also, thank you for this new thread, ThePinkSuperhero. :)
posted by zarq at 9:20 AM on July 12, 2016


R/sfp is a few diehards and mostly Donalders at this point.
posted by avalonian at 9:20 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


/r/SFP is flipping the fuck out and will see the country burn under Trump before they vote for Shillary.

yeah but thirteen year-olds can't vote anyway
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:20 AM on July 12, 2016 [73 favorites]


/r/SFP is flipping the fuck out and will see the country burn under Trump before they vote for Shillary.

I have to expect that they'll have exactly as much impact as the "PUMA's" of eight years ago: none.
posted by Zonker at 9:21 AM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


I think he really explains the structural misogyny that's held Clinton back so far. Fully understanding this imbalance is key to addressing and fixing it.

Not as much as you think. As I had pointed out to me elsewhere, Clinton has had positive numbers when she's been in positions of authority, but those numbers plummet when she shows ambition. Klein never really gets that issue.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:21 AM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


/r/SFP is flipping the fuck out and will see the country burn under Trump before they vote for Shillary.

Yeah, I have some hardcore "Bernie or Bust" acquaintances and they're losing their minds over this. They're absolutely convinced Clinton rigged every single primary/caucus and stole the election, and that Sanders is now a traitor.

I know people like this are a small minority, but I wish the Sanders campaign had done more early on to clamp down on the conspiracy paranoia that eventually came to dominate their camp. It got really ugly towards the end and I feel like they must have been aware it was spreading and let it to fire up their supporters.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:21 AM on July 12, 2016 [25 favorites]


Sanders for President on Reddit ... a subset of a subset.

Still, if "Shillary" is (one of) their nicknames for her, I'm sad for that slice of humanity. Really, you're going to call her "shrill," a slight that is so specifically aimed at women who are speaking in an excited or emphatic way, that it couldn't be applied to men in the same position. And somehow they'll back Trump instead?

Fuck their noise.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:22 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


"We accept $27 donations, too, you know."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:22 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]






Still, if "Shillary" is (one of) their nicknames for her, I'm sad for that slice of humanity. Really, you're going to call her "shrill,"

Where did that r come from?
posted by beerperson at 9:24 AM on July 12, 2016 [37 favorites]


Still, if "Shillary" is (one of) their nicknames for her, I'm sad for that slice of humanity. Really, you're going to call her "shrill," a slight that is so specifically aimed at women who are speaking in an excited or emphatic way, that it couldn't be applied to men in the same position

Those people are jerks, but Shillary is wordplay on "shill" not "shrill". Though I'm sure there are those that call her Shrillary.
posted by avalonian at 9:24 AM on July 12, 2016 [21 favorites]



Still, if "Shillary" is (one of) their nicknames for her, I'm sad for that slice of humanity. Really, you're going to call her "shrill," a slight that is so specifically aimed at women who are speaking in an excited or emphatic way, that it couldn't be applied to men in the same position. And somehow they'll back Trump instead?


It's Shillary not Shrillary.... refers to being a shill for corporate interests.
posted by lalochezia at 9:24 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


Still, if "Shillary" is (one of) their nicknames for her, I'm sad for that slice of humanity. Really, you're going to call her "shrill,"

I mean, I'm sure they do call her shrill, but the point of Shillary is that she's a shill, i.e., bought and paid for. Also a disgusting thing to call her!

Anyway, I got my HFA "woman card" in the mail yesterday. So if anyone asks, I bought and paid for her. She's mine. She's my candidate, and she's doing exactly what I want her to do: being a nerd in public, refusing to back down. A++++ investment.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:25 AM on July 12, 2016 [46 favorites]


Where did that r come from?

Rkansas.
posted by maxsparber at 9:25 AM on July 12, 2016 [52 favorites]


(I wonder how many $27 donations Clinton will get today? I just made one myself…)
posted by nicepersonality at 9:25 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Still, if "Shillary" is (one of) their nicknames for her, I'm sad for that slice of humanity. Really, you're going to call her "shrill," a slight that is so specifically aimed at women who are speaking in an excited or emphatic way, that it couldn't be applied to men in the same position. And somehow they'll back Trump instead?

Those people are crazybad and reddit politics are absurd but it's "Shill" not "Shrill". As in a "shill for Wall Street". Still toxic but not misogynist in this one small instance.
posted by Justinian at 9:26 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh Metafilter, I'm so glad you're helping clarify the etymology of the disparagement we are all (?) hoping to move past (though I'm sure we won't). Never change.
posted by meinvt at 9:27 AM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


... how is it I am still able to pull hope out of the bottomless bag of pessimism that politics has gifted me with?

Stockholm syndrome.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 9:27 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm guessing people who use the term don't make/care about the distinction between shill and shrill
posted by triggerfinger at 9:27 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Are people here suggesting the "shrillary" nickname is not also being used?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 9:28 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Adding $27 donations can't bring her average down to that number. But if there's a real tidal wave she could brag that it's her modal donation amount.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:28 AM on July 12, 2016


In your corrections, you people are all forgetting the dollar sign in $hillary. You're probably all Micro$oft Internet Exploder users, amiright?
posted by clawsoon at 9:28 AM on July 12, 2016 [13 favorites]


Actually, she's called Shillary in reference to the pocket full of shillings she carries around with her. She's the only candidate you can ask to break a haypenny.
posted by dr_dank at 9:28 AM on July 12, 2016 [100 favorites]


Those people are jerks, but Shillary is wordplay on "shill" not "shrill". Though I'm sure there are those that call her Shrillary.

Ah, thanks (everyone :)) for the correction. Still, baffling that Big Business Trump is better than That Shill Hillary.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:28 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


The latest FiveThirtyEight podcast has a really interesting panel discussion (starting at 47:40) about why 538 Senior Political Writer and Analyst Harry Enten doesn't (generally) vote.
posted by Etrigan at 9:29 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


The one I wonder about is "Killary" which is usually not more than one bumper away from a sticker expressing a desire to shoot all the liberals.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:29 AM on July 12, 2016


The one I wonder about is "Killary"

It's about Vince Foster and/or Benghazi.
posted by Etrigan at 9:30 AM on July 12, 2016


Still toxic but not misogynist in this one small instance.

I don't know about that. The fact that Clinton is damned as a shill for representing Wall Street (a major business concern in the state where she was a Senator) and yet Bernie is excused for his deference to the VT gun lobby could indeed be called a sexist double standard. Also, any talk of her being bought and paid for slips verrrrry quickly into calling her a "whore", which I think is pretty solid evidence that this, too, is a misogynistic attack on her.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:30 AM on July 12, 2016 [32 favorites]


Ed Kilgore: Republican Insiders Are Dreading Their Own Convention
At a time when the nation is reeling from a series of mass shootings, there is widespread concern about safety in Cleveland. Increasing the worry is the nature of Trump’s campaign events, which have at times resulted in racially charged violence between his supporters and critics. The convention is expected to draw scores of protesters, ranging from Black Lives Matter to white-supremacist groups.

Thanks to Ohio's robust "concealed carry" law, Cleveland police are being reduced to begging protesters not to bring along their shooting irons.
[...]
In a terrible affront to both the Second Amendment and the constitutional doctrine of federalism, the Obama Secret Service has banned firearms inside the convention perimeter itself. But the biggest worry Republicans have about what goes on inside Quicken Loans Arena involves Team Trump's apparent disorganization in planning the convention. Six days out, and more than a week after Trump himself boasted the speaking schedule was full-to-overflowing, there's still no convention schedule available. A relative handful of isolated announcements have been made about this or that elected official agreeing to speak at the convention, in a sharp departure from the usual assumption that all of them would be there and most of them above the rank of dogcatcher would be offered three minutes during a sleepy afternoon session. We're all beginning to wonder if there will be a schedule in place when the convention officially opens on Monday.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:30 AM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish: The LA Times' Matt Pearce: "Sort of frustrating that I'm gonna have to pack body armor to cover a nominating convention."

What a weird turn of phrase. "Sort of frustrating," so you're also sort of excited? Or annoyed that it clashes with your usual political coverage wardrobe? And why frustrated, instead of angry at the state of politics in the US?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:30 AM on July 12, 2016


I saw an unironic "Hitlery" this morning, so there's always room to fall.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:31 AM on July 12, 2016 [19 favorites]


I just gave another $27 which of course they asked for by text message (you might wonder why I signed up for those but I'm not sure really).

Also I'm pretty sure that "Shillary" is at least a touch misogynist what with most male politicians not getting cutesy insult-names that blend their first names with an insult.
posted by R343L at 9:31 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm going to call her Dillary, because we're in a pickle and she's just what we need!
posted by maxsparber at 9:31 AM on July 12, 2016 [108 favorites]


zombieflanders: Thanks to Ohio's robust "concealed carry" law, Cleveland police are being reduced to begging protesters not to bring along their shooting irons.

"Please, please leave the "making people safer with guns" to us, the trained and skilled police. Thanks, we really appreciate it."
posted by filthy light thief at 9:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


Although garlic is also good when you're making pickles.
posted by maxsparber at 9:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's about Vince Foster and/or Benghazi.

Something Awful has a word filter that replaces all instances of "Vince Foster" with "Vince McMahon." It helps.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [33 favorites]


filthy light thief, that tone is pretty common on twitter. Like all the people who say "brb, about to walk into the sea to escape the sorrows of mankind". The low-affect blase discussion of huge horrors is A Thing.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


I made a $10 donation just now (and a few others a few weeks ago) but I bought a ton of cute stuff from her store, too.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


maxsparber: I'm going to call her Dillary, because we're in a pickle and she's just what we need!

SCREW YOU, COMMIE! SWEET PICKLES OR DEATH!
posted by filthy light thief at 9:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


Hate to say it but he's right about Ginsburg. Supreme Court Justices should not comment on a Presidential election .
posted by thelonius at 9:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


oh for the love of god just let go of the elementary school bullshit and call her President Clinton come January please please please
posted by Mooski at 9:33 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Whales for Krillary!
posted by phunniemee at 9:33 AM on July 12, 2016 [54 favorites]


538 Senior Political Writer and Analyst Harry Enten doesn't (generally) vote.

Whiz Kid Harry Enten
posted by zutalors! at 9:33 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Something Awful has a word filter that replaces all instances of "Vince Foster" with "Vince McMahon." It helps.

I don't always agree with his choices in running the WWE, but I don't think he deserved to be murdered by the Clintons for them.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:34 AM on July 12, 2016 [23 favorites]


Regarding the NeverTrumpers, I bet this was hilarious:
Unruh and her team hosted one final conference call Sunday night. Perhaps as a reflection of the grass-roots nature of this latest effort, the call devolved into a cacophony of unmuted lines after about a half hour, as Unruh ended the formal portion of the call but activists and delegates aired out their many questions.
Looking forward to seeing what these folks can achieve. Go go go!
posted by Existential Dread at 9:35 AM on July 12, 2016


Grillary is the candidate I'd prefer to have a beer with.
posted by AndrewInDC at 9:35 AM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


kind of looking forward to major television network correspondents reporting from the RNC dressed in body armor and a helmet, like shades of slate's "reporting on the US as if it's a 3rd world country" feature.
posted by indubitable at 9:36 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


Grillery is the candidate I'd prefer to have a beer with.

Millery, surely?
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:37 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


[Couple comments deleted; folks let's not be bringing over whatever offensive stuff people are saying about Clinton elsewhere.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:37 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Millery, surely?

Good Lord, no. Microbrillery, at the very least.
posted by maxsparber at 9:38 AM on July 12, 2016 [17 favorites]


This thread has gotten too Sillary.
posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld at 9:39 AM on July 12, 2016 [57 favorites]


This is the giddy moment I naively thought we would be having months ago. But I'm glad it's here. And good job Bernie Sanders.
posted by zutalors! at 9:40 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


Something Awful has a word filter that replaces all instances of "Vince Foster" with "Vince McMahon."

Similarly, I've started mentally replacing all mentions of "Benghazi" with "Ben Gazzara".
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:40 AM on July 12, 2016 [21 favorites]


I can’t help but be a little bit satisfied to see Sanders finally put in a very public position where he had to choose between retaining ideological purity but not having any actual power, or making compromises in order to gain some influence on the political process.

Anyone disappointed by his endorsement of Clinton would have been 300 million times more disappointed by the compromises he'd have had to make to do anything as a president.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 9:40 AM on July 12, 2016 [40 favorites]


I can't wait for Quillary to sign her first piece of legislation.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:42 AM on July 12, 2016 [28 favorites]


Similarly, I've started mentally replacing all mentions of "Benghazi" with "Ben Gazzara".

Jackie Treehorn draws a lot of water in this town. You don't draw shit, Paul Ryan.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:42 AM on July 12, 2016 [19 favorites]


When she brings out the big guns, you can call her Artillary.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [29 favorites]




I don't want to have a beer with her, but I'd share a bottle of single-malt scotch with Distillery.
posted by maxsparber at 9:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [32 favorites]


Trump doesn't stand a chance against the full power of Godzillary.
posted by beerperson at 9:44 AM on July 12, 2016 [47 favorites]


Tom Bombadillary Clinton is kind of out of place and tends to run on a bit too long, but it's fun theorizing about her true nature
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:44 AM on July 12, 2016 [33 favorites]


And when she plays Scrabble®, I call her Chuck Willary!
posted by nicepersonality at 9:44 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


Guys, I realize we're all having fun with this but maybe we should keep it Chillary.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:44 AM on July 12, 2016 [37 favorites]


LobsterMitten can we please stop the *ry? I'm sorry. I'm so god damned sorry for that derail.
posted by Talez at 9:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


As someone living in Vermont who has more-or-less followed how Sanders does things for the past decade and a half: I'm mostly surprised that everyone seems surprised, and/or thinks Sanders had to make this moral ideological choice, or whatever. He decided back in the 70's to try to work within the system for change. His career has been as a consistent gadfly who gets things done by amending initiatives that others have already began moving forward. He is by all accounts an occasionally irascible individual who is nonetheless beloved by those he has helped because of his genuine interest and concern in their needs. Today should be nothing but entirely predictable.

Still worth enjoying the heck out of it.
posted by meinvt at 9:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [32 favorites]


I can't wait for Quillary to sign her first piece of legislation.

And no doubt, she'll be Pillaried.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


Damnit sheeple, can't you see she's a dangerous British spy? She's... A View To A Killary.

aaaaaand I'm out.
posted by gwint at 9:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]


Yes please let's get back to the important work of our 14-month-long liveblog of the election
posted by beerperson at 9:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [93 favorites]


What have I wrought?
posted by maxsparber at 9:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


this thread feels low-content, very filler-y
posted by the phlegmatic king at 9:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [31 favorites]


I wonder how long the Onion's been sitting on this piece
posted by Apocryphon at 9:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


Stop it.
posted by Behemoth at 9:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Leslie Knope probably ships her and Dr. Biden as Jillary.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [29 favorites]


I too have had my fillary.
posted by Devonian at 9:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [13 favorites]


I would love nothing more than to have a beer with Bernie and Hillary together. I bet we could have an lively discussion on something like the role of zoning, development and inclusionary housing requirements on urban planning, historical redlining and modern poverty. It'd be great fun. Even better if the rest of America can play beer pong in the background while we do.
posted by meinvt at 9:47 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm going to call her Dillary, because we're in a pickle and she's just what we need!

I'm going to call her Sillary, because I enjoy members of the Apiaceae family and also I am bad at politics.
posted by Mayor West at 9:47 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Enough already. I've had my fillary
posted by gottabefunky at 9:47 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


meinvt: I think it's because his campaign was so stridently based on being the outsider, it was hard for people who haven't been watching him closely at length to see whether he was going to pivot to working within the establishment. (To be honest, I pay a lot of attention to politics and I had similar questions.)
posted by protocoach at 9:48 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


[Ok, deep breath, that was fun, but yeah maybe enough with the -illary.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:48 AM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]


Regarding Trump's possible VP picks:

"FLYNNSANITY. I really wish he were a top choice so we could make that catch on, but I feel like his pro-choice oopsies this weekend really take him out of the running."

Does anyone else feel like Flynn saying "I think women have to be able to choose … sort of, the right of choice. They are the ones that have to make the decision because they’re the ones that are going to decide to bring up that child or not" is similar to when the Obama administration let Biden float the pro-gay sentiment first just to test the waters?
posted by komara at 9:48 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also because he promised his followers a fight on the floor of the convention.
posted by zutalors! at 9:49 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


Yeah, I have some hardcore "Bernie or Bust" acquaintances and they're losing their minds over this.

I think it's important to understand Sanders appealed to a lot of traditionally more conservative (read: pro-gun; unreformed sexist) and independent voters who also grudgingly joined Obama's coalition, but who were never naturally comfortable with the Democratic party and the Clintons in particular. By now, Trump has embarrassed everybody enough times, I don't think it'll cost Clinton all that much if she really can't bring in those voters. Back when Obama was first running, the mood was a lot different and I think we really needed somebody who could enthusiastically draw in those voters to win, but I think Clinton's got it locked up without necessarily needing all those votes just on the basis of Trump's being such an embarrassment to his own party. It would be a shame if she didn't at least give those voters some respect and make the effort though, because they have some legitimate grievances, though they may not always correctly diagnose the root causes of the issues that are hurting them and their communities.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:49 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


The RNC next week is going to put the shit back into shitshow. The Trump machinery seems uniquely incompetent at playing the political game necessary to wrap up the nomination they rightfully earned - I can't even imagine what that means for their long-term chances.
posted by codacorolla at 9:50 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


Does Justice Ginsburg have the right of the First Amendment if she is speaking not in her office or do we simply assume we have no idea what justices lean left or right?
posted by Postroad at 9:51 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


protocoach: I do get that, to a degree. And I do think the campaign messaging went off the rails towards the end. A lot of that I believe came from the supporters he attracted, some of whom ended up within the campaign itself. If you look at the first six months or so, including the first handful of debates, I think it was clearer where he intend to end up if he didn't manage to win.
posted by meinvt at 9:51 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]




I'd vote for four more years of Obama in a heartbeat if it weren't constitutionally prohibited.

Hey, if Bloomberg can change the rules to serve a third term in New York...
posted by Paul Slade at 9:52 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


So what's the overlap in beliefs between Trump and Sanders? For the life of me I can't find the logic that makes a Sanders supporter have Trump as option B.

I voted for Bernie in the primary, but will happily vote for Hillary come November. She's growing on me and I admit I was swayed by a lot of misleading information and maybe some internalized misogyny. I have done my research and I am actually pretty excited about her being president!
posted by ADent at 9:54 AM on July 12, 2016 [29 favorites]


Jamelle Bouie: What Bernie Sanders Has Won: The Democratic platform is a monument to his campaign.

While I really do think Sanders made an important contribution to the political dialogue in this country, it really burns me up when people act like Clinton hasn't been working for half of this stuff for decades.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:54 AM on July 12, 2016 [78 favorites]


The RNC next week is going to put the shit back into shitshow.

Normally I'd be happy to see the Republicans falling to pieces, but I think there's a serious chance of violence erupting there. Cleveland is going to be a swirling storm of anger, resentment, and guns.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:55 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


So what's the overlap in beliefs between Trump and Sanders?

Anger and frustration?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:55 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


So what's the overlap in beliefs between Trump and Sanders? For the life of me I can't find the logic that makes a Sanders supporter have Trump as option B.

"Politicians are a bunch of corrupt assholes, I want a real outsider to go in there and shake things up!"
posted by protocoach at 9:56 AM on July 12, 2016 [13 favorites]


So what's the overlap in beliefs between Trump and Sanders? For the life of me I can't find the logic that makes a Sanders supporter have Trump as option B.


"Not Hillary plus I Should Be Able To Do What I Want."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:56 AM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


For the life of me I can't find the logic that makes a Sanders supporter have Trump as option B.

"We want an outsider (and are willing to disregard the fact that Sanders has been an elected official for going on 40 years)!" Plus no small amount of sexism and Clinton fatigue.
posted by Etrigan at 9:57 AM on July 12, 2016 [17 favorites]


They are the ones that have to make the decision because they’re the ones that are going to decide to bring up that child or not" is similar to when the Obama administration let Biden float the pro-gay sentiment first just to test the waters?

I can't imagine Trumps people trying to move the right to become pro-choice, especially when many evangelicals already don't trust his views on religion.
posted by drezdn at 9:57 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Normally I'd be happy to see the Republicans falling to pieces, but I think there's a serious chance of violence erupting there. Cleveland is going to be a swirling storm of anger, resentment, and guns.

I agree. I dislike establishment republicans quite a bit, but I can't help but feel sorry for the moderates in the party who are now trapped in that toxic situation. To say nothing of the poor folks of Cleveland.
posted by codacorolla at 9:57 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Keynote speaker of this year's RNC.

I really thought the RNC had decided to go with the utterly hypocritical but still totally reasonable common sense approach of banning guns from the event. Given the no-shit serious concerns caused by people open carrying in Dallas, I'm absolutely dreading what's going to happen in Cleveland the first time anyone hears a car backfire or the cops get their first prank call, let alone something uglier.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:57 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


There are two new Hillarymoji out: Clinton and Sanders BFFs, and one of them dancing together.
posted by rewil at 9:58 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


OMG the Hillarymoji app added some new 'mojis

JINX
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:58 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


So what's the overlap in beliefs between Trump and Sanders? For the life of me I can't find the logic that makes a Sanders supporter have Trump as option B.

Trump is male.
posted by Mooski at 9:59 AM on July 12, 2016 [25 favorites]


ADent: So what's the overlap in beliefs between Trump and Sanders? For the life of me I can't find the logic that makes a Sanders supporter have Trump as option B.

More seriously than the other responses: Unrestricted trade and the influence of large donors on politics. They both believe that both of those things are bad, although "believe" might not be the right word to use in Trump's case. If those are your only two issues, a Sanders-to-Trump switch might make sense.
posted by clawsoon at 9:59 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


I can't help but feel sorry for the moderates in the party who are now trapped in that toxic situation

I mean...decisions have consequences. They helped mold this beast. I don't feel sorry for them at all.
posted by protocoach at 10:00 AM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


Speaking as one of those unrealistic idealists who supported Sanders for his policy goals, has no interest in the candidates personally, their supporters, or campaign minutiae, and thinks that realistically neither of them has a shot of passing anything non-trivial absent a Democratic wave in 2020 -- I am very happy to see HRC and the DNC supporting an increasing list of idealistic and impossible leftwing goals, eg:

• Expanding not reforming social security
• $15
• Free in-state college
• Marijuana legalization
• Carbon pricing
• No death penalty (maybe)
• No TPP (maybe)
• Public option and expanding Medicare
• More systemic/fundamental critiques of inequality, Wall Street, criminal justice, policing

None of this will pass any time soon, but it does shift public opinion to advocate it. I've long said that all I wanted was a little "pandering" -- just a few steps to the left and Clinton has my warm support. This goes a long way towards that. Now we just have to hold their feet to the fire for (hopefully) the next eight years.
posted by chortly at 10:00 AM on July 12, 2016 [45 favorites]


As homunculus's link above shows Sanders achieved many of his policy goals-- look at how the Dem platform was moved leftwards. I would imagine most of Bern's supports will recognize that to fulfill those goals requires voting D in November. But also as stated above, there was always a faction of the Bern supporters who had little interest in issues per se.
posted by gwint at 10:01 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


Mefi's own corb will be at the RNC. I hope it is a peaceful event especially for her sake.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:01 AM on July 12, 2016 [41 favorites]


Whoa, jinx chortly.
posted by gwint at 10:01 AM on July 12, 2016


I keep seeing people suggesting Gary Johnson to Bernie-or-Busters which only makes more sense than Trump in that he isn't literally the villain from a Disney movie about a dog.
posted by beerperson at 10:01 AM on July 12, 2016 [16 favorites]


"We want an outsider (and are willing to disregard the fact that Sanders has been an elected official for going on 40 years)!"

Sanders gets a pass because those of us who lived through his national career always knew him as an outsider within the system, as the token, leftover socialist from a time in US history when you could still have a political career while publicly declaring yourself socialist. Sanders was very marginalized politically for many years, in terms of his presence on the national stage, but the one thing his name is most associated with is democratic socialism, which the public appetite for is stronger than ever in a lot of ways now.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:01 AM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]


~So what's the overlap in beliefs between Trump and Sanders?
~Anger and frustration?


A lot of really bad hair days?
posted by Thorzdad at 10:02 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


clawsoon: But Clinton has come out against TPP. Now some (many) people might believe that to be a purely political bit of triangulation... but Trump has changed so many positions I can't even keep track anymore. He's changed them multiple times in a single day occasionally.

One can't rationally decide not to vote for Clinton because one doesn't trust her to be accurately stating her positions and yet decide to support Trump when it is even more clear that one can't trust him to be accurately stating his positions. It's nonsensical.
posted by Justinian at 10:02 AM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


Rule number 1: You don't talk smack about sitting supreme court justices

Rule number 2: You don't talk smack about sitting supreme court justices who are already known for speaking their mind and delivering a thorough smack down

Rule number 3: If you disagree with a supreme court justice you do it in polite tone. "I thank the justice for their viewpoint, however...."

Rule number 4: Unless they're actually doing an action of the court (delivering an opinion, granting cert, etc.) they're just a person of interest just like every other celebrity or politician. Striking out against them only serves to demonstrate the lack of respect your campaign represents.
posted by Hasteur at 10:03 AM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


I don't understand how Trump gets credit for no "large donors in politics." If he's to be believed, he's his own large donor. He is literally buying political office for himself. I do not see how this is any kind of an improvement over other people buying an office for someone else. Like yay, now oligarchs can skip the middle man and buy their own public offices directly wholesale?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:03 AM on July 12, 2016 [49 favorites]


I'm not gonna lie - I just schadenfruededly ran to Facebook to check out what my rabid #BernieOrBust #NeverHillary friends were saying and I was not disappointed. Well, I should say that I remained disappointed by the exact sort of truly nutty reaction there was. "I love the earth so much I am voting for Gary Johnson because Bernie, who I yesterday said was my hero and I would follow forever, has broken my heart by endorsing the only viable candidate (who in point of fact is a lot better than viable, but I don't know, #shillary or something) #dumb!"

I have to assume this is a thin layer of mold on the edge of the electorate, and not representative of any substantial block.
posted by dirtdirt at 10:04 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


By now, Trump has embarrassed everybody enough times, I don't think it'll cost Clinton all that much if she really can't bring in those voters.

College-educated whites put hole in Trump coalition
posted by Diablevert at 10:04 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Since the bulk of the GOP seems to be skipping the convention, I hope Trump brings in C-listers like Gary Busey to speak.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:04 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


let's stop bickering

I will almost certainly be voting for Clinton but as god as my witness I will never stop bickering
posted by Greg Nog at 10:05 AM on July 12, 2016 [102 favorites]


I do not see how this is any kind of an improvement over other people buying an office for someone else.

We can see who's paying for it, at least. A lot of the pushback on superPACs is that their donors are anonymous.
posted by Etrigan at 10:05 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


If you find me a Sanders-turned-Trump voter who said in 2012 that trade deals were their major policy decider, I will give you $10 and eat my hat. No one gave a flying fuck about trade deals in 2012 and anyone who claims to be using that to decide their vote now is working backwards to find a policy position, not forwards.

I think we have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, some people just really viscerally hate Hillary Clinton and will come up with any justification necessary to support a candidate that's not her. This is hard to appreciate from the outside. Remember that Ted Cruz won a substantial share of the Republican primary vote while here on MetaFilter we continually joke about how he's a melted skinsack of squirming buttered grubworms. Compare this to Rick Santorum, who shares similar extreme conservative evangelical positions, but does not inspire the Uncanny Valley queasiness that Cruz does.
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:05 AM on July 12, 2016 [27 favorites]


Keynote speaker of this year's RNC.

This could be easily mistaken for a threat.

Please tell me it's not meant as a threat.
posted by sour cream at 10:06 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Something Awful has a word filter that replaces all instances of "Vince Foster" with "Vince McMahon."

Currently Ted Cruz is filtered to "Zodiac Killer", which results in discussing how there's a running joke that Zodiac Killer is the Zodiac Killer.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:06 AM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


What a wonderful development. It'll be jumping my laundry schedule a bit, but I'm washing my Hillary shirt right now to wear it today in this ridiculous dead-ender leftwinger town of mine.
posted by EatTheWeak at 10:06 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Since the bulk of the GOP seems to be skipping the convention, I hope Trump brings in C-listers like Gary Busey to speak.

Rumor is the featured speaker is the chair from Clint Eastwood's 2012 appearance
posted by beerperson at 10:07 AM on July 12, 2016 [20 favorites]


We can see who's paying for it, at least.

My assumption is always "all the worst people."

But I'm incredibly jaded for my 42 years.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:07 AM on July 12, 2016


seems like an "NRA owns the GOP" shot, to me
posted by thelonius at 10:07 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Please tell me it's not meant as a threat.

I mean, the intent seems obvious, but if it makes you feel better: No. It's not a threat.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:08 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Compare this to Rick Santorum, who shares similar extreme conservative evangelical positions, but does not inspire the Uncanny Valley queasiness that Cruz does.

For my part that's primarily because Santorum never had a frothy snowball's chance in hell of getting elected nationally. Cruz seems more dangerous.
posted by Justinian at 10:08 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


Please tell me it's not meant as a threat.

It's very clearly a jab and a satirical eyeroll. And yeah, I'm hoping everything turns out safe, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:09 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


June 28th; from BernieSanders.com

Here's the thing: our delegates are not wealthy campaign contributors. They're not party insiders or establishment elites. They're working folks, and it's not easy for many of them to fly to Philly and stay in hotels for a week.

...make a $2.70 contribution...help our delegates to come to the Democratic convention...in Philadelphia.


Not the finest day to see happen; but imagining the convention being crashed was even more difficult to foresee.
posted by buzzman at 10:09 AM on July 12, 2016


Yeah, the idea of "the rich man can't be bought" is that he says what he actually thinks, you like what he says, you vote, he does what he said he'd do. The money is the badge of authenticity. Whereas when the other pols say stuff you like, you can't be sure that's what they'll do, 'cause they'll close the door and get patted on the head and handed a wad of cash by the people actually running the show.

This is a dumb idea for many reasons, and pure cash is far from the only way to string your puppet. But it is a popular belief.
posted by Diablevert at 10:09 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


So what's the overlap in beliefs between Trump and Sanders? For the life of me I can't find the logic that makes a Sanders supporter have Trump as option B.

Sanders and Trump are not so much leaders as elevated standard bearers for an America that is actually amazingly consistent across the political spectrum regarding the problem the nation faces. (That's the strongest indicator you could have that they're actually right about that.) The problem, in my sure to be over-strained metaphor, is that a handful of Americans are living high on the hog on this gorgeous, overstuffed, gilded cruise ship, while the rest of us are crowded into a tiny, leaking lifeboat that's getting more crowded and leaky all the time, even as the folks on the cruise ship pilfer supplies from the lifeboat to make their lives even cushier.

The distinction between right and left on this is what to do about it. The progressive/Sanders response is that we all need to be aboard the cruise ship, even if that means it's a little more crowded and it isn't quite as nice for the people who are there now.

The conservative/Trump response is different because it's deeply intertwined with a racism that's so entrenched as to be invisible to conservative Americans (it's just the water they swim in) and in an ingrained concept that the guys on the cruise ship deserve to be there. In that context, the only solution conservatives can come up with is that immigrants and minorities are swamping the lifeboat, and if we just throw them over the side, there'll be more lifeboat for us.

Both sides perceive that Hillary just wants to be Captain of the ship, and if you find the status quo unacceptable, then maybe you decide that the first thing is you have to overthrow the bridge officers, even if the people helping you just want to get themselves aboard while you want to bring everyone aboard. You can always work to bring more people aboard once the mutiny is successful.
posted by Naberius at 10:10 AM on July 12, 2016 [47 favorites]


>What Bernie Sanders Has Won: The Democratic platform is a monument to his campaign.

Why Clinton's New Tuition-Free Higher Ed Plan Matters - "The plan isn't great. I think means-testing higher ed makes about as much sense as means-testing Social Security or elementary school (though, alas, we still do that in this country through local funding and property taxes). I would have preferred free higher ed for everyone. That said, and assuming Clinton can get this plan through (a big assumption), this is still a big step forward."*
To my mind, this announcement today goes way beyond the Clinton/Sanders horserace or the Clinton/Trump race. If there is anyone to be celebrated here, it’s the millions of people—particularly young people—who pushed so hard during this campaign, and who have been slowly changing American politics outside the electoral realm.

One of the biggest challenges facing democracy—as opposed to liberalism—and democratic ways of thinking and doing things, is the sense, among a lot of citizens, that political action, whether in the electoral realm or the streets, doesn’t matter. That sense is not delusion; there’s a lot of evidence to suggest that on some fundamentals, it doesn’t matter, at least not yet. But you don’t change that common sense by repeating it over and over to people...

If this plan of Clinton’s does come to pass—again, a big if—it could help, ever so slightly (I stress that ever so slightly), change our sense, if we claim this victory as our own (not as a beneficent handout of an elite neoliberal politician but as a response to real pressure from citizens, particularly younger citizens who have been active in so many social movements these last few years), it could help change our sense of where power lies. It could help more people see what the good activist and the smart organizer already sees: that if we could just possibly get our shit together, we might, sometimes, find power elsewhere. Not power in the abstract, but power to change the concrete terms and conditions of our daily lives.

So here’s my new (really, hardly new at all, and actually not mine) political slogan, as we enter a season of (I hope) increasing, if ultimately finite, concessions from the neoliberal state: Take this, demand more, seize all.
posted by kliuless at 10:10 AM on July 12, 2016 [16 favorites]


Both Trump and Sanders are anti-establishment figures. Yes Sanders has been an elected official for decades, but he's an extreme political outsider, a socialist. The appeal of both of them is basically, look at the mess the country is in. We have un-winnable, unending wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have secret wars in Yemen and who knows where else. We have a financial sector that is growing like gangbusters while real unemployment festers and the wages of the bottom 80% are flat or declining for decades. The policies that led us to this state of affairs are the policies that enjoy bipartisan support. So if you don't like this state of affairs, what can you do? A third party candidate is an idea, but this time around there happened to be radicals running in the primaries of both parties.

Now one of those radicals is the Republican nominee, and the other has just conceded the race to the establishment candidate. Is it any surprise that people who supported a radical candidate in the primary might now support a radical candidate in the election?
posted by rustcrumb at 10:11 AM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


Rumor is the featured speaker is the chair from Clint Eastwood's 2012 appearance

That would fit, now that TrumpTM has finally named his VP.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:11 AM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


"I don't agree with him but at least he means what he says" has got to be the dumbest reason to vote for someone I've ever encountered. It's "hey, at least it's an ethos!" from The Big Lebowski as political philosophy.
posted by Justinian at 10:12 AM on July 12, 2016 [40 favorites]


For my part that's primarily because Santorum never had a frothy snowball's chance in hell of getting elected nationally. Cruz seems more dangerous.

Frothy you say?

#DoNotGoogleThat
posted by Hasteur at 10:12 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


"I love the earth so much I am voting for Gary Johnson

They do realize that Gary Johnson's environmental policy is literally "stop pollution by shaming people that have no sense of shame".
posted by Talez at 10:14 AM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]


Is it any surprise that people who supported a radical candidate in the primary might now support a radical candidate in the election?

When they disagree on 99% of issues? Yes?

"If my preferred candidate who supports raising taxes on the rich significantly can't be the nominee I'm going to vote instead for the candidate who supports cutting taxes on the rich significantly! Because of reasons!!!!"
posted by Justinian at 10:15 AM on July 12, 2016 [21 favorites]


(Michelle) OBAMA 2016
posted by AFABulous at 10:16 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


Diablevert: Yeah, the idea of "the rich man can't be bought" is that he says what he actually thinks, you like what he says, you vote, he does what he said he'd do. The money is the badge of authenticity. ... This is a dumb idea for many reasons, and pure cash is far from the only way to string your puppet. But it is a popular belief.

It was a major reason given during the first century or so of Anglo democracy to limit the vote to property owners. I'm pretty sure I've read Very Serious Political Philosphers arguing the point, but I can't right now remember who.
posted by clawsoon at 10:16 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Now one of those radicals is the Republican nominee, and the other has just conceded the race to the establishment candidate. Is it any surprise that people who supported a radical candidate in the primary might now support a radical candidate in the election?

Yes. Whatever drooling centrists like Fareed Zakaria write, the "radical" who conceded has views diametrically opposed to those of the "radical" who remains.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:16 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


he's an extreme political outsider, a socialist.

He's a Democratic Socialist.
posted by zutalors! at 10:16 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Republican Party leaders, donors and important delegates will flock to Cleveland this week for a series of meetings and negotiations...
Aaaagh no no no can't you soulless automatons gentlemen wait until my vacation starts next week? Shoo! Shoo!
posted by Western Infidels at 10:17 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sanders -> Trump seems to me to be mostly a "none of the above" vote. It's likely not rational for many of those making that choice. It could be misogyny or a protest vote or simply free-floating anger at the world, but I think it's a similar gut-feeling not-for-me, damn-the-consequences vote that partially resulted in Brexit.
posted by bonehead at 10:19 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is it any surprise that people who supported a radical candidate in the primary might now support a radical candidate in the election?

I am a dual US/UK citizen and have just seen the result of an election where many people at the bottom have voted for Change! and what they got is the same Tories in power and an economic situation that will make their lives worse.

Brexit was not the Change they were looking for.
As an American, Trump is not the change I'm looking for.

I would have loved to see Bernie win but now...
I am going to the polls, voting for Hillary to keep that disgraceful, divisive Trump clown out of office and hope that in four years we can get a truly progressive candidate. Not to mention that I actually trust Hillary to make reasonable, progressive choices for the at-least-one open Supreme court position.
posted by vacapinta at 10:19 AM on July 12, 2016 [26 favorites]


Hm. I guess like Naberius very well explained, if you just want to vote for any radical candidate for the sake of rocking the boat, then it would make sense to go for Trump.

But then it's a little weird that a non-zero percentage of Bernie's supporters would probably be in fundamental ideological disagreement with Bernie himself, and I hope he calls them out.
posted by ADent at 10:20 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


The reality is that Clinton is also an anti-establishment figure.

Yes, she's White and Wealthy and married to a former President but seriously this is first time we've even considered putting a female up for President. 44 straight males in the office of the President and this is the first time we've ever considered a woman.

Obama was also representative of the status quo in many ways but to the 37.9% of Americans that are members of a racial minority that was a massive repudiation of the White establishment. I think that Clinton represents a very significant deviation from the male dominated status quo.
posted by vuron at 10:20 AM on July 12, 2016 [57 favorites]


I live 1,000 ft from Cleveland city limits. I am genuinely concerned that racist agitators will show up to the RNC to start violence with the residents of this area. I'm not worried about the people around here who will be participating in protests, it's people coming in with an axe to grind that worry me.
posted by Tehhund at 10:21 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


> "... the rich man can't be bought ..."

Now that we have shown that the henhouse guards are in the pay of foxes, we will explain why we should replace them with this fox.
posted by kyrademon at 10:21 AM on July 12, 2016 [22 favorites]


It's foxes all the way down.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:23 AM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


Just here to say that I was giving myself a break from election threads, ThePinkSuperhero, but your excellent title drew me back in.
posted by TwoStride at 10:24 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]



Obama was also representative of the status quo in many ways but to the 37.9% of Americans that are members of a racial minority that was a massive repudiation of the White establishment.


What does this sentence mean? Obama's status as a minority was only significant to other minorities? All minorities want a massive repudiation of the White establishment?
posted by zutalors! at 10:25 AM on July 12, 2016


Jefferson or Burr....
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:25 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Regarding open (or really any) carry at the RNC, I fully support the Cleveland police or Ohio State police or whomever severely limiting civilian gun presence. Yes, the Republicans are largely responsible for the open carry mess that caused so much additional trouble in Dallas last week, but I think limiting their presence for this reason both keeps them safe and provides a ton of evidence that open carry is a terrible idea. To whit, if the political supporters of open carry can't be safe when people are open carrying, then the rest of us shouldn't be subjected to it either. That point can be made without risking an additional atrocity in Cleveland.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:27 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm not sure what to expect at the Republican convention any longer. Obviously all the political heavyweights are skipping the show, and when none of the living former Republican presidents or even presidential nominees will be seen on stage with you, it's not a great look for a traditional campaign.

OTOH, Trump's campaign has made a (necessary) virtue out of flouting traditional norms and conventions. And the one thing he's good at is showmanship. So what are we getting in Cleveland? Yes, riots outside, but what's the show going to look like in the Quicken Loans arena?

I'm guessing it will turn out to be a polished spectacle with Trump's family and long time associates and minor celebrities (and other assorted hostages) offering glowing tributes to the "good man" he is at heart. A perfect marshmallow puff of glitz without substance, which is exactly what the TV audience will lap up when served in bite sized morsels by the cable channels and websites and Periscope feeds.

And then - this is the part that terrifies me - the polls will close, Very Serious People will opine on how presidential the whole thing was, about how Trump not piddling himself on stage is a sign of growth and maturity, and we're suddenly in a nail-biter of a contest between the smartest, best prepared candidate in generations on the one hand, and a raging dumpster fire of hatred and anger on the other.

I'm not sure my stomach can deal with that.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:28 AM on July 12, 2016 [24 favorites]


RedorGreen now I'm terrified.
posted by ADent at 10:31 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Venn Diagram of Sanders Supporters has been a confusing one for a lot of pundits to understand.

Group A- The largest subset of Sanders Supporters seemed to be Democrats that genuinely liked a lot of what Sanders had to say and might've preferred him even if they felt like he was unlikely to win. This group moved more or less seamlessly over to support of Clinton.

Group B- Progressives uncomfortable with an incrementalist message. Clinton has represented the status quo firmly running on the coattails of Obama, for some people the idea of Clinton being the next President was troubling because they wanted more change. Change they felt like Obama fumbled the ball on. These people have basically looked at Trump and Noped the fuck out and are firmly on board.

Group C- The anti-monarchists, these individuals have gotten frustrated with Bush-Clinton-Clinton-Bush-Bush-Obama-Obama-Clinton-Clinton-Obama (we can hope can't we) and wanted new blood. Still the Blue Queen is way way way better than the Red King and whatever nonsense he has planned

Group D- Fuck the system man, not even convinced these guys were ever going to vote for Sanders but were mainly in places like 4chan and Reddit for the memes. Praise Kek that the Donald is still around spouting off MAGA magic memes.

Group E- Accelerationists that are more than willing to brave a V for Vendetta situation because Trump can't really be that bad can he? Plus Guy Fawkes masks might make a comeback.

I'm sure that there are more subgroups but these seemed to be the biggest groups and for the most part the BoBs that are still around are in Group D and E.
posted by vuron at 10:33 AM on July 12, 2016 [27 favorites]


you know who I miss? Keyboard Cat.

Keyboard Cat could have played off:
Jeb!
L'il Marco
Cruz at the moment the hatchling escaped his mouth
Trump I mean just pick ten random moments of insanity

Seriously, my recommendation for the DNC is to have a fifteen minute montage of Keyboard Cat playing off various segments of the GOP.

Maybe Keyboard Cat can look sort of disappointed, like he did when he played off Helen Hunt and then joined Hall and Oates.
posted by angrycat at 10:34 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


zutalors!- nothing meant by it other than it can be really disempowering to large numbers of the electorate to be forced to choice between generic rich white guy A and generic rich white guy B which has been the status quo for the majority of the history of the Republic. Sometimes just having someone that looks like you can be a game changer in that it opens up the world to a whole host of possibilities that might've not been even contemplated.
posted by vuron at 10:36 AM on July 12, 2016


It looks like C-Span will cover the conventions. We cut the cable cord this year and I was regretting that during the debates but it looks like we'll be able to cast C-Span to watch both conventions.
posted by octothorpe at 10:37 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Keyboard Cat is nine years old. All your base is 15 years old.

Wow I've been on the Internet a long time.
posted by Talez at 10:37 AM on July 12, 2016 [22 favorites]


It doesn't look like the networks are going to be covering them at all.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:37 AM on July 12, 2016


My third-biggest fear is that the paranoid gun nuts at the RNC will get spooked by someone's gunfire ringtone, freak the fuck out, and start shooting at each other in a thousand-man open-carry friendly-fire cage-match-of-death. Which would be horrible. Like, actually living through a TrumpTM presidency just to prove what a bad idea it is levels of horrible.

My second-biggest fear is that it won't be the RNC idiots who start the firefight.

My biggest fear is a TrumpTM presidency.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:39 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]




I can’t help but be a little bit satisfied to see Sanders finally put in a very public position where he had to choose between retaining ideological purity but not having any actual power, or making compromises in order to gain some influence on the political process.

you see, you haven't been paying attention. From before his campaign started, Sanders said he wasn't going to run a 'Nader' campaign--not because of the spoiler y nature of third parties, but because it wouldn't build power for working people. that s a close quote. Nader's campaign failed to build power, and Stein's campaign is also about Dr Jill Stein, and not about building the local green parties, which desperately need it.

The campaign was about building power and changing the Democratic party. Sanders knows how to count votes like a Senator. the campaign didn't take the nomination, but it won the platform and proved to the political class the relative power of a small donation campaign on a democratic socialist stump speech.

Now, the next step is to replicate that method downticket. if you believe that the material conditions of fundraising effects candidates' positions, then start working on building that social democratic position into the Congress.

sanders calls this a "revolution." well, i don't know about that, that's the go-to socialist call and hasn't been seen in a while. but please, please people, quit pretending that elections are about individual personalities. shit, politics is not only about elections, much less one damn election in a country with thousands and thousands of elected positions.

remember 2010, and what sleeping in on a mid term election let the tea party do to a women's right to abortion in the US. we ve got a lot of work to do.
posted by eustatic at 10:42 AM on July 12, 2016 [42 favorites]


Actually, she's called Shillary in reference to the pocket full of shillings she carries around with her. She's the only candidate you can ask to break a haypenny.

I'm counting on her to break a trumppence.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [24 favorites]


Talk less! Smile more!
Don't let them know what you're against or what you're for!
Shake hands with him, charm her!


It's 2016, ladies, tell your husbands: Vote for HER!
posted by schmod at 10:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [31 favorites]


I don't think Trump can entertain himself out of the massive deficit he's built up in credibility among so many segments of the GOP core constituency.. even if the convention was held on ice with elephants in feather headgear. It won't magic away the past six months (most of which is probably in the 'attack ad raw material' folder on the Dem's media workstation. On a very big hard disk.)
posted by Devonian at 10:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


My third-biggest fear is that the paranoid gun nuts at the RNC will get spooked by someone's gunfire ringtone, freak the fuck out, and start shooting at each other in a thousand-man open-carry friendly-fire cage-match-of-death.

As dramatically ironic as such a literal circular firing squad would be, the Secret Service is banning guns at the convention. This is convenient for the GOP, in that they can blame it on the Gubmint without having to acknowledge that yes, sometimes you have to restrict guns for safety reasons.
posted by fifthrider at 10:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


It's 2016, ladies, tell your husbands: Vote for HER!

It's 2016 ladies, post on Twitter, I'm with her.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm guessing it will turn out to be a polished spectacle with Trump's family and long time associates and minor celebrities (and other assorted hostages) offering glowing tributes to the "good man" he is at heart. A perfect marshmallow puff of glitz without substance, which is exactly what the TV audience will lap up when served in bite sized morsels by the cable channels and websites and Periscope feeds.

I understand that fear, but I'm fairly confident that Trump will manage to say something vile, ugly, and racist from the stage. I don't think he can help himself, and I don't think his handlers will be able to stop him - even if they've apparently been clamping down on his Twitter belchings lately.
posted by dnash at 10:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's 2016 ladies, post on Twitter, I'm with her.

Are you literally fucking crazy?!?
posted by Talez at 10:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


I've seen no proof that Trump knows how to throw a decent spectacle without the collusion of trained reality TV experts. Left to his own devices, I suspect this event will be less like a Roman circus and more like a depression-Era carnivale (sic).
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:48 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Well, it's sure to depress me!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:49 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


> I'm fairly confident that Trump will manage to say something vile, ugly, and racist from the stage. I don't think he can help himself

For both of our sakes, I hope you're right...

(And yes, I realize that I'm *hoping* for a major party nominee for President to do this. Not proud of it, but I'm too worried about the election.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:49 AM on July 12, 2016


what's the show going to look like in the Quicken Loans arena?

This leaked schedule has been making the rounds.

"I don't agree with him but at least he means what he says" has got to be the dumbest reason to vote for someone I've ever encountered.

If you really felt that you had been lied to all your life, then I suppose you'd put a lot of value on someone you thought was telling you the "truth." Maybe to the exclusion of everything else. That said, this belief is a species of magical thinking, a craving for enlightenment, and the impulse behind it seems fundamentally religious, not political.

(If only Vladimir Nabokov was alive to run, I would've been with the Marsh Fritillary.)
posted by octobersurprise at 10:50 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm really looking forward to Trump's increasingly frantic and Baghdad Bob-esque claims of victory among the burning rubble of his campaign.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:51 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm fairly confident that Trump will manage to say something vile, ugly, and racist from the stage. I don't think he can help himself

It hasn't hurt him so far, so who cares?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:52 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm most curious about the metric ton of oppo-research that the Clinton campaign is going to drop on Trump the minute that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted on his nomination. You have to imagine that they aren't running up the score yet so as not to disqualify him early, even though he's doing all he can.
posted by Sreiny at 10:54 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


There have been three consistent things about Trump throughout the last thirteen months.
  1. Some people have said "He's gonna get worse and flame out."
  2. Other people have said "He's gonna pivot to the center and sweep the election."
  3. Trump has headed straight down the path that got him to 40 percent.
I'm willing to place my money on #3 continuing to be the case.
posted by Etrigan at 10:55 AM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


Sreiny: that's going to be incredible. You think he polls badly with women now. Can you imagine the shit that hasn't come to light yet?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:56 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


The Sanders campaign was an unmitigated success.

We gave the Democratic platform a much-needed kick to the left, and proved that the electorate has an appetite for those policies.

We got a nominee who actually knows how to govern.

We stalled the general election campaign season for nearly a year, and nobody can argue that Clinton waltzed into the nomination unopposed.

Seriously, folks. This is one of the best possible outcomes of the nomination process that we could have hoped for.
posted by schmod at 10:58 AM on July 12, 2016 [104 favorites]


I was moderated out more by Metafilter writing about this campaign than everything else put together in my fifteen years here - it basically stopped my contributions to Metafilter dead in the water and eradicated the warm feelings I once had for this site.

So I can only say: .
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:59 AM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


But, seriously. Stop means-testing social programs. It's bad policy and unpopular.
posted by schmod at 10:59 AM on July 12, 2016 [17 favorites]


I'm most curious about the metric ton of oppo-research that the Clinton campaign is going to drop on Trump the minute that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted on his nomination.

Unfortunately, if the Clinton oppo that has leaked so far is any indication, it looks like they're going to handle him more or less with kid gloves.
posted by fifthrider at 10:59 AM on July 12, 2016


It's 2016, ladies, give your defending Pokémon pro-Hillary hashtag names.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:59 AM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


4. He just repeats the phrase "Crooked Hillary" 4 million times from the top of Trump Tower
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:00 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I dislike establishment republicans quite a bit, but I can't help but feel sorry for the moderates in the party who are now trapped in that toxic situation.

Any "moderates" still members of the Republican Party in July 2016 have only themselves to blame.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:00 AM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]


Some people have said "He's gonna get worse and flame out."
Other people have said "He's gonna pivot to the center and sweep the election."
Trump has headed straight down the path that got him to 40 percent.
I'm willing to place my money on #3 continuing to be the case.


Trump just backed off his ban on Muslim immigration. I wonder if it could be the beginning of a kind of "softening" of his message (which is a nice way to say less explicitly racist and horrible).
posted by beau jackson at 11:02 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hillary's oppo-research on Trump is just a link to his Twitter-feed.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:02 AM on July 12, 2016 [17 favorites]


I can’t help but be a little bit satisfied to see Sanders finally put in a very public position where he had to choose between retaining ideological purity but not having any actual power, or making compromises in order to gain some influence on the political process.

you see, you haven't been paying attention. From before his campaign started, Sanders said he wasn't going to run a 'Nader' campaign--not because of the spoiler y nature of third parties, but because it wouldn't build power for working people.


To clarify, I don't think Sanders ever was particularly revolutionary, or remotely ideologically pure. He voted against the Brady Bill 5 Times. He porkbarelled the military-industrial complex for years, including lobbying Lockheed Martin to get a 1.3T stealth fighter built in Vermont. He took money from the Democratic State Senate Committe -- much of which came from Friends of Hillary Clinton. He voted for the Crime Bill. He recently endorsed a pro-life candidate.

But that wasn't the narrative. The narrative was "Hillary has no principles, she's not progressive, look at all the times she settled for less than what was ideological ideal. But Bernie is pure, Bernie brooks no compromise." And some of that was people projecting on to Sanders, but a lot of it came from the campaign itself.

So what's satisfying is seeing very public refutation of that narrative.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 11:04 AM on July 12, 2016 [39 favorites]


Never vote for anyone who endorses purity tests. Never. Sign this pledge, please.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:08 AM on July 12, 2016 [22 favorites]


Never too late for a swift kick in the pants on his way out the door, eh? Unity!
posted by chortly at 11:17 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


The narrative was "Hillary has no principles, she's not progressive, look at all the times she settled for less than what was ideological ideal. But Bernie is pure, Bernie brooks no compromise."

The narrative I'd always heard was "Bernie's funding comes from the little people, not the big ones, and that is where his greatest loyalty lies." As a supporter I heard from his fellow supporters that compromise and hammering out deals was more or less his modus operandi. And I doubt I'll live to see that narrative be publicly refuted.
posted by Phyltre at 11:20 AM on July 12, 2016 [16 favorites]


Any "moderates" still members of the Republican Party in July 2016 have only themselves to blame.

Unhelpful nonsense. The moderates still within the Republican party working overtime right now to stop Trump from even making it to the ballot are American heroes. Maybe I'd disagree with them on every other policy position, but there are Republicans more worried about the country than their party right now. They're patriots, and I respect and applaud them for it.
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:22 AM on July 12, 2016 [32 favorites]


Question re: platforms (both parties): if the platform is written before the candidate is officially nominated, what happens if the candidate/nominee looks at the platform and says it stinks? Presumably this doesn't happen much, but looking at the RNC's so far (and conceding that the Dems could one day have a similarly ignorant dumpster fire), what happens then?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:23 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]




Party platforms are meaningless. The candidates are not beholden to them, and are free to ignore them at will, just like all the rest of their promises.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:24 AM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


Ted Cruz is the cockroach of American politics. Sure you'd recoil in horror if you ran across him in person, but in an abstract, geological time scale way, you've got to admire the sheer survivability.
posted by Diablevert at 11:30 AM on July 12, 2016 [39 favorites]


In a dramatic display of bipartisan unity after a horrific tragedy, Ted Cruz will accompany President Barack Obama aboard Air Force One to Dallas on Tuesday, the Texas senator's office said.

God I hope they stick him in the cargohold or something. I dunno how Obama could stand to be in the same room with him for a whole plane ride.
posted by dis_integration at 11:31 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


God I hope they stick him in the cargohold or something. I dunno how Obama could stand to be in the same room with him for a whole plane ride.

Perhaps the President wants to spend 3 hours asking him to take the nomination away from Trump? For the good of the country, of course.
posted by zarq at 11:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Get off my plane!" #harrisonford
posted by Devonian at 11:33 AM on July 12, 2016 [21 favorites]


"Well, Ted, on long flights I usually like to take in a movie. Oh, here's one I haven't seen yet, "Zodiac." Seen that one, Ted?"
posted by wabbittwax at 11:36 AM on July 12, 2016 [90 favorites]


In a dramatic display of bipartisan unity after a horrific tragedy, President Barack Obama will apply human leach Ted Cruz to the nation's wounds on Tuesday, the Texas senator's office said.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:36 AM on July 12, 2016 [35 favorites]


Well I would have appreciated more disavowal of militarism in the Clinton-Sanders speeches, (and I certainly do not see Bernie as "pure" on that count, the invasion of Afghanistan was an acceptable measure for him) but whatever happens on that front is still going to be about a million times better than Trump giving nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia, a theocracy that beheads people for witchcraft.
posted by XMLicious at 11:39 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


do flight instruments even work when you have Ted Cruz on your plane? I assume they just spin around crazily
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:39 AM on July 12, 2016 [54 favorites]


I read that as "a horrific display of bipartisan unity" the first time.
posted by fifthrider at 11:40 AM on July 12, 2016 [17 favorites]


I dunno how Obama could stand to be in the same room with him for a whole plane ride.

It's important to remember that despite the constant partisan bloodletting, at the end of the day these people are co-workers.
posted by billyfleetwood at 11:41 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


If you find me a Sanders-turned-Trump voter who said in 2012 that trade deals were their major policy decider, I will give you $10 and eat my hat. No one gave a flying fuck about trade deals in 2012 and anyone who claims to be using that to decide their vote now is working backwards to find a policy position, not forwards.

Don't construe this as a defense in any way of those clowns, but I will say this: a lot of the things in the TPP that have many people - myself included - worked up are not within a million miles of what the average person would expect to find within something they would call a trade deal. Nor would many of those people, asked in 2012, have believed that such a deal would have been negotiated with that level of secrecy.

So those people are completely full of shit and largely misogynists, yes, but I don't think the lack of expectation they would care about this sort of thing is a great way to explain why.
posted by phearlez at 11:41 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


How long on average does it take the associated press to decode the cipher in a Ted Cruz press release
posted by beerperson at 11:42 AM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]


Even if it's just a craven attempt to curry political favor, and it might well be, bipartisan unity after a horrific tragedy isn't a bad look for Ted Cruz.
posted by box at 11:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


at the end of the day these people are co-workers.

Ted Cruz's senate colleagues don't even consider him a co-worker.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


zarq: In a dramatic display of bipartisan unity after a horrific tragedy, Ted Cruz will accompany President Barack Obama aboard Air Force One to Dallas on Tuesday, the Texas senator's office said.

Maybe they watched this and said, fuck it, let's hug.
posted by clawsoon at 11:44 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Hate to say it but he's right about Ginsburg. Supreme Court Justices should not comment on a Presidential election .

How about throwing a Presidential election, that ok?
posted by notsnot at 11:45 AM on July 12, 2016 [24 favorites]


Party platforms are meaningless. The candidates are not beholden to them, and are free to ignore them at will, just like all the rest of their promises.

Doing this opens them to criticism during their Administration and could potentially endanger their re-election. Platforms usually are exactly what they appear to be: a public statement of principles and priorities. Yes, they can be ignored afterwards, but insofar as they're usually constructed with an eye towards making significant chunks of the party regulars happy, just tearing it up and trampling on it usually isn't the wisest course. Even if a candidate doesn't like what's in the platform, or finds it impossible to carry out policies in line with it, it acts as a measuring stick and (if they're planning to run for another term) a constraint which they ignore at their peril, as do other high-profile campaign statements. Ask George H.W. Bush about "read my lips: no new taxes."

Hillary Clinton will be our first female president. She has no intention, I imagine, of being our first one-term female president. So assuming that the Republican Party manages to run an actual, electable candidate in 2020, pissing off sizable chunks of the liberal-Left coalition during the next four years by straight-up ignoring the platform entirely is probably not part of her strategy. Doesn't mean that she'll get anything substantial done legislatively, that depends very much on what Congress looks like (VOTE! DOWN! TICKET!). But she's going to have to try.
posted by AdamCSnider at 11:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


Even if it's just a craven attempt to curry political favor, and it might well be, bipartisan unity after a horrific tragedy isn't a bad look for Ted Cruz.

He's still isn't perfect wearing his human skin suit, but he's got four years to practice before the next presidential election.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


The reality is that shoving some coworkers out of a plane probably would be pretty appealing after a 3 hour + meeting with them.

Hell 1 hour meetings are painful and I'm pretty sure none of them were responsible for a series of murders in California...
posted by vuron at 11:46 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm sure Obama is looking forward to opening the door of Air Force One and giving Cruz a big hug in front of all the cameras, thereby crushing Cruz's Republican primary hopes for all time.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:47 AM on July 12, 2016 [46 favorites]


so near the sun, surely ted cruz will dissolve into an ashen pile?
posted by Tevin at 11:48 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


the Baneposting memes write themselves
posted by Apocryphon at 11:48 AM on July 12, 2016


> Ted Cruz is the cockroach of American politics. Sure you'd recoil in horror if you ran across him in person, but in an abstract, geological time scale way, you've got to admire the sheer survivability.

Well and also he's like a cockroach in that he'll eat nearly anything that's near his mouthparts.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:50 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


so near the sun, surely ted cruz will dissolve into ashen pile?

No, he'll merely darken slightly, but all the Young Republicans around the country will immediately burst into flames.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:50 AM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


so near the sun, surely ted cruz will dissolve into ashen pile?

Also known as "Reaching Cruzing Altitude"
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:51 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm sure Obama is looking forward to opening the door of Air Force One and giving Cruz a big hug in front of all the cameras

joke's on Obama when he feels what's writhing under that skin suit
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:51 AM on July 12, 2016 [28 favorites]


If I pull off your skin suit will you die?

It would be very painful.... for you!

Yep I expect some memes with Airforce One, DKR and Sneks on a Plane.
posted by vuron at 11:52 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Man, that Cruz = zodiac shit is way stale and was never even funny to begin with.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:52 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


The moderates still within the Republican party working overtime right now to stop Trump from even making it to the ballot are American heroes. Maybe I'd disagree with them on every other policy position, but there are Republicans more worried about the country than their party right now. They're patriots, and I respect and applaud them for it.

Well, yes, fighting Trump by any means necessary is the only morally defensible stand to take right now, and some Republicans are taking it.* That said, I feel compelled to point out that there's only so much principled heroism to be found in saying "this far, but no further," when they were totally okay with going this far.

I mean if these Republican heroes had objected a little more strongly when their party was spending decades of persistent effort building a base of easily led racist savages, then Donald Trump wouldn't have been able to come along and snatch it away from them.

*Though damn few. Most of the GOP appears to be just keeping their heads down and hoping they don't get too much shit on their suits.
posted by Naberius at 11:53 AM on July 12, 2016 [18 favorites]


I'm sure Obama is looking forward to opening the door of Air Force One and giving Cruz a big hug in front of all the cameras, thereby crushing Cruz's Republican primary hopes for all time.

I hope he gives im a lil peck on the cheek
posted by Greg Nog at 11:53 AM on July 12, 2016 [16 favorites]


terrorist fist bump
posted by nicepersonality at 11:55 AM on July 12, 2016 [13 favorites]


"I know what you did, Ted. You broke my heart. YOU BROKE MY HEART!"
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:55 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm sure Obama is looking forward to opening the door of Air Force One and giving Cruz a big hug in front of all the cameras, thereby crushing Cruz's Republican primary hopes for all time.

I mean, look what he did for Christie. (Oh, those were happier times, weren't they, Chris?)
posted by octobersurprise at 11:57 AM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


After voting to keep “traditional marriage” in the Republican Party’s platform, members of the committee rejected two proposals to include language addressing the LGBT community on Tuesday.

As I noted in the other thread, I think it's very likely that the platform put out this year is going to be even more socially conservative than usual - in any other year I would say it would run a risk of destroying the Republican Party, even. Those of us who normally would be acting to put the brakes on that crazy are working our tails off to defeat Trump, and are just hoping that whatever festering pile of shit comes out of that committee, candidates will ignore it. I apologize in advance for how horrible I am sure it will turn out to be.

In security concerns, I think the most likely target where we are at risk is going to be on the buses. I'm actually reasnably worried about this element - especially because there are going to be actual Nazis protesting any attempt to stop Trump, and my state is well known as one of the hotbeds of #neverTrump. We will have one bodyguard for what's possibly 120 people, including guests, and I'm not sure that many people can all fit on one bus, so it runs the risk of one bus being unprotected. I don't know what to do about that so I'm trying not to think about it too hard.
posted by corb at 11:57 AM on July 12, 2016 [26 favorites]


Corb, my offer of convention rescue still stands. I'll MeMail you my cell #.
posted by cooker girl at 11:59 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


All jokes aside, I am honestly fearful of actual violence associated with the convention.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:01 PM on July 12, 2016 [20 favorites]


Any "moderates" still members of the Republican Party in July 2016 have only themselves to blame.
Unhelpful nonsense. The moderates still within the Republican party working overtime right now to stop Trump from even making it to the ballot are American heroes.

So, as a still-somewhat-recently former Republican I have to disagree with "nonsense" while agreeing the tone perhaps was too adversarial.

For me, after however many idealogical litmus tests and RINO slurs from within the party, and what amounted to an ever-more-tenuous position of "not all Republicans think like that" when talking to friends about, say, access to women's health care (I disagree with the party's constant attempts to dehumanize and disempower women), marriage equality (I live in DC, so duh, I disagree with the party), and the unhinged woman who ran for office in DC and paid her own money for ads with aborted fetuses (what the actual Helen of Troy was she doing and why didn't anybody stop her?), I had to wonder what I was even bothering to defend in the party. It didn't represent me anymore, and it clearly didn't want people like me anyway.

So really, what's left to defend? It's a pile of more or less indefensible positions that increasingly appear to be all on the wrong side of history. If you're a moderate, how many parts of the party platform would you wholeheartedly agree with, how many would you change, and how much would you change them?
posted by fedward at 12:02 PM on July 12, 2016 [22 favorites]


I'm most curious about the metric ton of oppo-research that the Clinton campaign is going to drop on Trump the minute that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted on his nomination.

"The Democrats are just sandbagging! Just wait until [x] happens and then the gloves will really come off!"

How many years can someone believe this before they just completely give up?
posted by indubitable at 12:14 PM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


Not 100% sure if this was posted in the other thread, but I highly recommend Ezra Klein's new piece on Hillary Clinton: Why the Clinton America Sees isn't the Clinton Colleagues Know.


or you can read the full interview where:

she manages to totally dodge his question about the relationship between welfare reform and the explosion of extreme poverty in the US... as if, somehow, that a recession changes the fact that Bill Clinton dismantled the government program for responding to extreme poverty, along with the laughable lie that *no one* expected that pushing for welfare onto the state budget line wasn't going to result in the gutting of programs.

she endorses continued austerity while she dodges his question about how negative interest rates present an opportunity to invest...

she endorses the idea that what the health care system needs is more market competition...

she claims free college tuition is too expensive and complicated...

and ezra manages to ask nothing about financial regulation or foreign policy...
posted by ennui.bz at 12:17 PM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]


While I appreciate (and agree) with froward, I also think there's a strong argument for trying to fix our political parties from within.

The Constitution mathematically favors a two-party system, and there doesn't appear to be a good process for a party to wind down into irrelevance without throwing the country into chaos.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing -- it gives an incentive to maintain stability, and keeps fringe groups at bay (so it's harder for parties like UKIP to gain a foothold). On the other hand, it marginalizes minority voices, and heavily favors incumbents.

But, then again, we don't have any options for accommodating a peaceful wind-down of the GOP and allowing a moderate party to emerge in its place. Similarly, on a less extreme scale, it's been difficult for some of us on the left to improve the Democratic Party, because there's little incentive for it to improve itself.

I don't know what the answer is here, but I really think we need to talk about this. I don't know why there are any legitimate moderates left in the GOP, but I can only hope that they can right the ship, because we're not even remotely equipped to handle the collapse of a major party.
posted by schmod at 12:30 PM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


I don't know why there are any legitimate moderates left in the GOP

The loud conservatives keep pulling the party farther to the right.
posted by Etrigan at 12:33 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


ennui.bz: "she endorses continued austerity while she dodges his question about how negative interest rates present an opportunity to invest..."

I did not come away from that section of the interview with that particular impression. My read on it was that she did recognize that it would be good to borrow under these favorable rates ("I think we have missed an opportunity over the last eight years to make some big bets on America — to make some investments with, as you say, money that is as low in terms of interest rates as it’s ever going to be.") and simultaneously proposing that these investments be paid with higher taxes on the wealthy ("And the best way to do that is to invest in these jobs, and I think we can pay for what we need to do through raising taxes on the wealthy [...]"). Which, honestly, seems like a not bad two-for-one deal to me.

However, she was definitely vague regarding what specific investments she thought were worth investing in. The normal thing to say is "infrastructure", which Ezra Klein mentions in his question, but she didn't repeat it herself. Yet, I did not read this vagueness as an endorsement for austerity.
posted by mhum at 12:33 PM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]



she claims free college tuition is too expensive and complicated...


she actually says:


I had several concerns about Sen. Sanders’s program. I thought it was hard to justify claiming it was free when it was going to have to be paid for by state governments, by a lot of state governments — up to a third of the cost — that were not particularly well-known for supporting higher education. They’ve in fact been disinvesting.


Which I don't think is wrong, honestly, that's a concern I also had with Sanders' promises. I read the interview and listened to it just now...really people should just engage with it directly rather than read these "summaries" on Metafilter.
posted by zutalors! at 12:35 PM on July 12, 2016 [52 favorites]


Charles Pierce: Bernie Sanders' Long Goodbye: He left his mark on the party. He won't let you forget that.
And it says more than a little about HRC that she allowed Sanders to take this extended victory lap in his speech prior to endorsing her formally, and that she and her campaign allowed a vigorous debate to take place over the platform. It was both personally classy and politically shrewd—especially since she had to know that the various phrenologists and seers in the campaign press corps were going to divine every blink of an eye on the podium for some hidden conflict or deeper meaning. She was also very gracious in her remarks toward his supporters, some of whom walked out in protest before she began.
posted by homunculus at 12:43 PM on July 12, 2016 [24 favorites]


Okay, in News From NeverTrump - apparently they are trying to "rule out of order" anything that would allow the delegates to vote their consciences . "The language on which they have relied was created in 1880 and then 1916" "There is no citation to any ruling of the chair since 1968 to allow this"
posted by corb at 12:45 PM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]


16 days from now, all of this #neverTrump and #BernieorBust shiate will be over, right?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:47 PM on July 12, 2016


[Comment removed; in general I think we're basically always gonna be better off skipping the "here's an awful comment I found on social media" angle.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:49 PM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]


From what I've gathered, I think we generally underestimate the appeal of a potential dictator who promises to solve everybody's personal problems in exchange for unlimited power. My FB acquaintance literally believes that Trump is going to cleanse America of immigrants but also somehow legalize weed and give everybody free college, cuz he's a cool guy who speaks the truth and you can have a beer with him. All he needs is unlimited power.

There are literally millions of people who think this way, and we have no real plan to stop them.
posted by Tyrant King Porn Dragon at 12:51 PM on July 12, 2016 [21 favorites]


16 days from now, all of this #neverTrump and #BernieorBust shiate will be over, right?

These two are not even kind of the same. No, #neverTrump lasts until him and his goddamned stormtrooper supporters are fucking gone.
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on July 12, 2016 [50 favorites]


we have no real plan to stop them.

We have more people on the non-whoever-that-guy-is-side.
posted by zutalors! at 12:55 PM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


I don't mind #neverTrump as a vote for Hillary, but I mind it as a way to stop him from getting nominated. People voted for him. He's their candidate.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:55 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


in general I think we're basically always gonna be better off skipping the "here's an awful comment I found on social media" angle.

While I understand the sentiment I thought, given the freshness of the Sanders endorsement, that it represented a worthwhile share. I know that's it's hard to let one through and then draw a line, but that was a pretty great case study in the sexism and accelerationist attitudes that sort of clown embraces. A great demonstration that those folks weren't so much believers in Sanders aspirationalism and specific goals as they were just giving someone the finger. Preferably women, it seems.

On the bright side, it further convinces me that those folks aren't going to be that sizable a force. They're disillusioned by everyone and not that committed to Trump that they're likely to go out of their way to get to the polls. They worry me a lot less than the rank & file republican who will vote for any nightmare beast with a (R) by their name and who consistently show up.
posted by phearlez at 12:58 PM on July 12, 2016


So wait...this would seem to indicate that Sanders' endorsement/concession was not "formal"? So confused/exhausted at this point that I might not be reading things right.
posted by mynameisluka at 12:59 PM on July 12, 2016


corb : As I noted in the other thread, I think it's very likely that the platform put out this year is going to be even more socially conservative than usual

I assume it isn't final, but it sure looks like it's shaping up that way according to this NYT article from today: Emerging Republican Platform Veers Far to the Right
CLEVELAND — Republicans moved closer on Tuesday toward adopting a platform that takes a strict, traditionalist view of the family and child rearing, prohibits military women from serving in combat roles and declares pornography to be a “public health crisis.”

It is a platform that at times seems to channel the bellicosity of the presumptive nominee, Donald J. Trump, with its calls to “destroy ISIS” and its belittling of the Obama administration as weak and inviting attacks from adversaries.

But, in other places, the document veers far to the right of Mr. Trump’s beliefs, especially as it addresses gay men, lesbians and transgender people. As delegates debated in two marathon sessions on Monday and Tuesday, they repeatedly rejected efforts by more moderate members of the Platform Committee to add language that would acknowledge antigay discrimination — something Mr. Trump has done himself.

What Republicans will most likely end up with when they formally vote next week to ratify the platform is a text heavy on moralizing and highly conservative in its views on gender roles, homosexuality and the protection of religious expression in government service.

The pornography provision was not in an initial draft that the Republican National Committee drew up and released on Sunday. But delegates added it in on Monday at the same time they were inserting many of the amendments opposing gay and transgender rights. It calls pornography “a public menace” that is especially harmful to children.

...
So, go big or go home, eh?
posted by tittergrrl at 1:00 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


So wait...this would seem to indicate that Sanders' endorsement was not "formal"? So confused/exhausted at this point that I might not be reading things right.

Good grief. This is approaching "there are no American soldiers in Baghdad!" territory now.
posted by zachlipton at 1:02 PM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


I dunno how Obama could stand to be in the same room with him for a whole plane ride.

Obama is a grown-up, a classy individual, and, as has been demonstrated amply during his time in office, has a vast reserve of self-control.

Also, he probably takes to heart to adage, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
posted by aught at 1:02 PM on July 12, 2016 [13 favorites]


It's foxes all the way down.

This really should replace "In God We Trust" on U.S. currency.
posted by aught at 1:03 PM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


So, go big or go home, eh?

Home is where you hang your asshat.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:03 PM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


I could see hanging out with like, Paul Ryan even though I hate his politics because I think we'd find some stuff to talk about. But Cruz no ugh.
posted by zutalors! at 1:05 PM on July 12, 2016




I could see hanging out with like, Paul Ryan even though I hate his politics because I think we'd find some stuff to talk about. But Cruz no ugh.

Eh, you could probably kill an hour talking about The Princess Bride.
posted by Etrigan at 1:07 PM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


Oh boy. This is going to be the most 1988 ticket in the world, and that includes the one that ran and won in 1988
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:09 PM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


The thought of Obama and Cruz sitting in Air Force one cracking each other up with lines from The Princess Bride somehow fills me with some small hope for our future. Behold, the power of nerds.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:09 PM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


(Digs out Steve Winwood cassettes)
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:10 PM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


So wait...this would seem to indicate that Sanders' endorsement/concession was not "formal"? So confused/exhausted at this point that I might not be reading things right.

No, that indicates that he really needs to fire Jeff Weaver. The man has become a living example of the Peter Principle.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:10 PM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


Politico seizes the phrase 'unity of hope' from George W. Bush's remarks in Dallas.
posted by box at 1:10 PM on July 12, 2016


Jesus take the wheel.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:11 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Cruz is the elected Republican most hated by other elected Republicans. He and Obama could fill 3 hours comparing notes on those other nasty Reps...
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:11 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Story TK"? What does "TK" mean? "To Kome"?
posted by Roommate at 1:11 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


to come, old journo shorthand
posted by cortex at 1:12 PM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


and old journos never kould spell
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:16 PM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


He and Obama could fill 3 hours comparing notes on those other nasty Reps.

Bizarrely, people are taking this as, no fooling, a sign from God. It kind of breaks my heart that we have come to the point where a President of the other party offering a ride to a Senator of the state the tragedy is in, going to remember the same tragedy, is taken as so much of an impossibility that it happening can be taken as a miraculous sign.
posted by corb at 1:16 PM on July 12, 2016 [34 favorites]


He's either the VP or has been sexually harassing.
posted by readery at 1:17 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


There's a rally in Westfield, IN this evening. It would be a very Trump move to use that opportunity to announce that the VP isn't Mike Pence.

By which I mean a dick move.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:18 PM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


He's either the VP or has been sexually harassing.


It can be both.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:19 PM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]


Harassed by Ailes?
posted by mynameisluka at 1:20 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Bizarrely, people are taking this as, no fooling, a sign from God.

And lo, the Hawaiian shall lay down with the Green Eggs And Ham
posted by Greg Nog at 1:21 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


Apparently this is making the rounds of the Bernie or Busters:

"The following is copied, and in response to the recent posts referring to Senator Sanders endorsing HRC in the near future: Copied...

This post is a little long, but please stay with me... It is Very Important nonetheless...

In response to Bernie's statement earlier today... ("We have got to do everything that we can to defeat Donald Trump and elect Hillary Clinton,") Sad Face right?... No, there's more to it...
I decided to do some digging into the Official DNC Convention Rules... Buried in this forty-page document is the rule...

"The delegates it certified will not publically support or campaign for any candidate for President or Vice President other than the nominees of the Democratic National Convention." (Keep in mind, Bernie is a S-Delegate)

As well as...

"It is presumed that the delegates to the Democratic National Convention, when 30 certified pursuant to the Call, are bona fide Democrats who are faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States, who subscribe to the substance, intent and principles of the Charter and the Bylaws of the Democratic Party of the United States, and who will participate in the Convention in good faith. Therefore, no additional assurances shall be required of delegates to the Democratic National Convention in the absence of a credentials contest or challenge."

What does this mean?... IMHO, It means that if Bernie publicly endorses Hillary, it's because he has no other choice... (Remember, Bernie IS a Super Delegate)... His credentials could be Revoked if he doesn't "publicly support" or act in "good faith" to the "fake nominee" and DNC... Meaning, he wouldn't be able to Attend the convention for the fight we are all expecting, if he doesn't publicly endorse Ms. Wall Street...

So if a public endorsement does occur soon, don't fret... There was no other choice... This is the Only way Bernie can get into the Convention, Kick Some Ass, and become the Nominee!
Too many people, have worked too hard, and have Too Much Evidence that Election Fraud has occured, for Bernie to risk not being able to plead his case at the Convention...

Have Faith!... Our boy knows what he's doing..."

posted by cooker girl at 1:22 PM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


And lo, the Hawaiian shall lay down with the Green Eggs And Ham

Green eggs and Canadian bacon (and pineapple) surely
posted by Existential Dread at 1:24 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


The thought of Obama and Cruz sitting in Air Force one cracking each other up with lines from The Princess Bride somehow fills me with some small hope for our future. Behold, the power of nerds.

Cruz: "Never go in against a Canadian when death is on the line! AHAHAHAH-"

CRUZ FALLS OVER DEAD

Michelle: "And to think, all that time it was your party that was poisoned!"
Obama: "They were both poisoned. I've spent the last few years of my life building up an immunity to partisan rancor."
posted by leotrotsky at 1:24 PM on July 12, 2016 [108 favorites]


"...I'm proud to present my running mate, Newt Gingrich!" Mike Pence freezes mid-clap moments before a grand piano falls from the sky and squishes him
posted by theodolite at 1:26 PM on July 12, 2016 [18 favorites]


So if a public endorsement does occur soon, don't fret... There was no other choice... This is the Only way Bernie can get into the Convention, Kick Some Ass, and become the Nominee!
Too many people, have worked too hard, and have Too Much Evidence that Election Fraud has occured, for Bernie to risk not being able to plead his case at the Convention...

Have Faith!... Our boy knows what he's doing..."


So, is this the denial or the bargaining stage?
posted by Existential Dread at 1:27 PM on July 12, 2016 [22 favorites]


0xFCAF: "Compare this to Rick Santorum, who shares similar extreme conservative evangelical positions, but does not inspire the Uncanny Valley queasiness that Cruz does."

Speak for yourself. Santorum was originally elected to the House from my district, to my everlasting shame. He was always, always deeply creepy.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:27 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


While I appreciate (and agree) with froward

froward? /me kicks the autocorrect.

The Constitution mathematically favors a two-party system

Does it, though? I thought that the whole deal was that it was intentionally silent on the subject, but it's admittedly been decades since my last civics class.

But, then again, we don't have any options for accommodating a peaceful wind-down of the GOP and allowing a moderate party to emerge in its place.

It's happened before, cf. Federalists, Whigs, etc. It just hasn't happened in the past century.

I don't know what the answer is here, but I really think we need to talk about this. I don't know why there are any legitimate moderates left in the GOP, but I can only hope that they can right the ship, because we're not even remotely equipped to handle the collapse of a major party.

I think it's going to involve rump caucuses and coalition government in the House. But then I also think the House should be about seven times as large as it is (one representative for every 100,000 citizens), as a way to make it less susceptible to big money influence on elections, and potentially more responsive to local issues (and not just primary voters). And I think redistricting should rely on a mathematical model that reduces the number of truly safe seats, but I can't figure out exactly how that math would work while also protecting majority-minority districts as required by law.

So, what I'm saying is, I don't have any useful, practical answers.
posted by fedward at 1:31 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


"I do not mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have small fingers on your right hand?"
posted by leotrotsky at 1:34 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


Slate: RBG Just Risked Her Legacy to Insult Trump
There is really very little to debate about the ethics of Ginsburg’s comments. They were plainly a violation, the kind of partisan partiality that judicial ethics codes strive to prevent. But Ginsburg, who is a quietly canny judicial and political strategist, surely knows that her comments were an ethical error. That leads to a fascinating question: Why would the justice risk her reputation and good standing—and even her power to hear cases involving Trump—for a few quick jabs at the candidate? The answer, I suspect, is that Ginsburg has decided to sacrifice some of her prestige in order to send as clear a warning signal about Trump as she possibly can. The subtext of Ginsburg’s comments, of her willingness to comment, is that Trump poses an unparalleled threat to this country—a threat so great that she will abandon judicial propriety in order to warn against looming disaster.

...Given all of these compelling reasons that Ginsburg should have refrained from speaking her mind about Trump, why did she take the risk? It seems clear that Ginsburg has made a very conscious decision to cash in her political capital after years of holding her fire. The justice is 83, and while she remains healthy and sharp, she probably won’t sit on the court for much longer. She won’t be impeached—Supreme Court justices must do much worse to suffer that sorry fate—and she can’t be voted out. In effect, Ginsburg has nothing to lose but her good name. And that, it seems, is what she has decided she is willing to risk if it might potentially rally her admirers against Trump’s looming peril.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:35 PM on July 12, 2016 [30 favorites]


If Newt is the pick that means that both the President and Vice nominees will be three times married dudes who both had affairs. Meanwhile Hilary has stuck with and forgiven(?) Bill through his own marital dalliances. Wonder how the social conservatives are going to spin that?
posted by PenDevil at 1:37 PM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Story TK"? What does "TK" mean? "To Kome"?

Someone's not a Breeders fan.
posted by aught at 1:37 PM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


Wonder how the social conservatives are going to spin that?

BENGHAZI! VINCE FOSTER! EMAILGATE!
posted by Cookiebastard at 1:40 PM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]




Stern's also the guy who complained about how activists trying to get Aaron Persky removed from the bench for being utterly horrible on sexual assault was a dangerous blow against judicial independence. Perhaps the issue is not Ginsberg being intemperate, but Stern being unable to grasp the reality of our courts as political entities.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:41 PM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


Wonder how the social conservatives are going to spin that?

As Hillary also being culpable in Bill's affairs. (Which... her attitudes towards the women he had affairs with was not a good look, but she also wasn't the one doing the dirty.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:42 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Wonder how the social conservatives are going to spin that?

Trump's children are well-groomed and haven't been arrested, which is proof that he's a Good Family Man. You can always tell a Good Family Man by his childrens' ability to look presentable, smile on a stage, and not have any publicized scandals.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:43 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't think companies would have begun to talk about pre-emptively raising the minimum wage without Bernie Sanders coming along and talking about it openly. He has clearly done a yeoman's job shifting the national political discussion leftwards, when certainly no one else at his level of prominence or higher was even acknowledging the possibility of making these and other much-needed improvements.

We once heard a lot about triangulation and how fixing things wasn't realistic, and even if he won't be the Democratic nominee, that dialogue has now changed permanently -- not just on minimum wage, but on a lot of other issues that are important to working Americans, too, such as healthcare and education finance reforms that were also "not realistic" to address in meaningful ways.

The public owes him a debt of gratitude, and I hope he finally gets recognized, and sooner rather than later, for the important things he has done this year to change the dialogue in positive ways.

If nothing else, he demonstrated that there is hope for a political alternative that doesn't necessarily have to embrace corporatism at the expense of the public good. Even if those hopes may not be fully realized this year, he was able to show us that we can make a small difference for the better.

Thanks for giving it your all, Bernie.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:46 PM on July 12, 2016 [26 favorites]


Trump's VP announcement won't be until Friday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:47 PM on July 12, 2016


Isn't Friday the day to bury bad news?
posted by peeedro at 1:48 PM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


I come to bury Newt, not to praise him.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:49 PM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


The best bad news. Just really great bad news.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 PM on July 12, 2016 [27 favorites]


This is the Only way Bernie can get into the Convention, Kick Some Ass, and become the Nominee!

It's hard to tell if that was written by a madman or to prey on madmen. The latter would be my guess, tho I can't rule out both. Anyway, I'm inclined to agree that the number of people who truly believe something like this is pretty small and aren't likely to have ever accepted anything short of a Bernie Sanders dictatorship in the first place. This is the language of Trutherism and Birtherism and reptiloid Overlords. I just hope someone channels this energy wisely, into, like, a video of Clinton and Sanders wax figures or something.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:50 PM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


and simultaneously proposing that these investments be paid with higher taxes on the wealthy

while increasing taxes on the wealthy might not be a bad thing to do, in the context of economic policy, increasing taxes is part of an austerity policy by decreasing the supply of money in the private economy. if sau, you wanted to actually get inflation up to the Fed target rate, increasing taxes would with against that. plus, if anything, it's cheaper to borrow now than it has been so if she thought it was a lost opportunity, it's still would be just as good an idea.

also, claiming "free college" isn't free because it would be paid for by taxes is the sort of crap you expect from a republican candidate, not the democratic one...
posted by ennui.bz at 1:52 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


increasing taxes is part of an austerity policy

We are not in a recession tho
posted by beerperson at 1:57 PM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


also, claiming "free college" isn't free because it would be paid for by taxes is the sort of crap you expect from a republican candidate, not the democratic one...

She didn't say it's not free because it would be paid by taxes, she said it's not free because the plan involves states voluntarily shouldering some of the burden -- the same states which are currently in the process of saying "fuck you, higher education," and also have previously set fire to no-strings-attached federal money because it came from Obamacare.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:57 PM on July 12, 2016 [53 favorites]




Maybe Trump saw that old George Washington video on YouTube and decided that was the kind of president he wanted to be.
posted by stolyarova at 2:00 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


>> The Constitution mathematically favors a two-party system

> Does it, though? I thought that the whole deal was that it was intentionally silent on the subject, but it's admittedly been decades since my last civics class.


So the intent of the folks who wrote it was at least officially to establish a non-partisan system, but because math the rules they wrote down results in a tendency toward a two-party system. Basically a two-party system is what tends to result from the combination of FPTP elections for local legislative representatives, and a nationwide election for the head of the executive branch. FPTP systems are unstable and yield more or less random results when there's more than two viable parties, but are relatively stable with two parties, and the national election for President helps prevent regional parties from forming/persisting.1

These effects hold even if the people writing the rules were all "now now we don't want you guys going out and forming parties" while they wrote them. 19 year old me was obsessed with this shit.

[1]: Westminster systems with FPTP elections but no nationwide election for head of government can end up with more than two parties, but generally the most successful extra parties are regional parties. Canada has FPTP and like four and a half parties, but there's very few regions where more than two of those parties are competitive.

posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:04 PM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]


Slate: RBG Just Risked Her Legacy to Insult Trump

Give her a break, it's not like she was dancing at a funeral.
posted by peeedro at 2:04 PM on July 12, 2016 [19 favorites]


DGAF RBG is the best RBG.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:08 PM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


Someday RBG will leave this world, and if any of the journalists writing about her life and legacy feel that the time she stated an overwhelmingly common sense consensus opinion about the terrible trashcan man who ran for president and lost by a landslide because of his terribleness merits a mention, they can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut and/or the moon.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:10 PM on July 12, 2016 [56 favorites]


Maybe Trump saw that old George Washington video on YouTube and decided that was the kind of president he wanted to be.

Not that crazy, since he lifted his entire platform verbatim from this other Brad Neely video
posted by theodolite at 2:11 PM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


The moderates still within the Republican party working overtime right now to stop Trump from even making it to the ballot are American heroes.

These so-called "moderates" are attempting to replace Trump with Cruz who in many ways is even more extreme and dangerous. I would hardly call that heroism.
posted by JackFlash at 2:11 PM on July 12, 2016 [20 favorites]


Give her a break, it's not like she was dancing at a funeral.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I want to think that even Bush wouldn't be dancing at a funeral, especially that funeral, but if he's not dancing what the hell is he doing?
posted by Sangermaine at 2:12 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


enniu.bz: also, claiming "free college" isn't free because it would be paid for by taxes is the sort of crap you expect from a republican candidate, not the democratic one...

It doesn't matter. It's not free. It shifts the actual costs of running colleges and teaching students to taxpayers rather than students. Personally, I think this is a good thing. Taxpayers are investing in the future, and collectively limiting the burden students are shouldering. However, those costs still exist, even if tuition is zero. College still costs money to run, teachers have to get paid, the lights have to stay on and supplies need to be purchased, etc. Colleges will still spend a certain amount to educate each student annually. That's all still a factor.

Those costs will not drop, either. Make college free and you'll undoubtedly see higher enrollment. An inevitable increase in demand. How much they'll rise is a good question. But it means that this is a cost to taxpayers which we likely will be unable to cap, because to do otherwise would compromise quality. The colleges can't turn away students after all.

Meanwhile, Clinton also noted that 1/3 of the plan requires states to agree to take on the burden of educating their own citizens. Something that does not seem particularly likely at the moment.

We cannot ignore such details if we are going to determine viable budgets and plans. Proposing budgets that can't pay for themselves is the sort of crap you expect from a republican candidate, not a democratic one.
posted by zarq at 2:12 PM on July 12, 2016 [29 favorites]


Not to completely revive the "-llary" thing but I'd just like to say, when she makes it back to the Capitol, we can call her Hillary.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 2:16 PM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


while increasing taxes on the wealthy might not be a bad thing to do, in the context of economic policy, increasing taxes is part of an austerity policy by decreasing the supply of money in the private economy.

Actually no, because taxes and new spending would be off-setting so the effect on the economy, to first order, would be neutral. Increasing taxes to reduce the deficit would be austerity. Deficit spending without new taxes would be stimulus.
posted by JackFlash at 2:17 PM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


At this point, I really just want to know how we ended up in the timeline where Biff Tannen kept hold of the Sports Almanac.
posted by kyrademon at 2:19 PM on July 12, 2016 [20 favorites]


I just like calling her Clinton because, well, I can remember three presidents and people usually called 'em Clinton, Bush, and Obama, not Bill, George, and Barack. Although actually I guess people called Bill Clinton 'Bill' more than the other two examples!
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:20 PM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


You Can't Tip a Buick: "Basically a two-party system is what tends to result from the combination of FPTP elections for local legislative representatives, and a nationwide election for the head of the executive branch."

True, but the Constitution does not mandate FPTP or geographic based constituencies below the state level. General ticket representation was common in the early years.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:20 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


I just like calling her Clinton because, well, I can remember three presidents and people usually called 'em Clinton, Bush, and Obama, not Bill, George, and Barack. Although actually I guess people called Bill Clinton 'Bill' more than the other two examples!

I also prefer calling her Clinton, but people referred to the second President Bush by his middle initial plenty.
posted by aubilenon at 2:24 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Continually confused why people, even smart people like Ezra Klein, insist on the "But free college wouldn't actually be free" psuedo-clarification.

Does anyone misunderstand what definition of "free" is at play here? GPS signals are free to receive, but no one thinks those satellites just appeared out of nowhere. It's free to call 911 but everyone understands 911 operators are not volunteers who set up their own dispatch equipment. The free WiFi at Starbucks is financed by an additional component in the price of your coffee. It's not magic, these price structures exist everywhere.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:25 PM on July 12, 2016 [25 favorites]


In a dramatic display of bipartisan unity after a horrific tragedy, Ted Cruz will accompany President Barack Obama aboard Air Force One to Dallas on Tuesday, the Texas senator's office said.

Uh, oh. I hope he doesn't make him sit in coach like the last time a President invited an opposition leader on the plane. We wouldn't want Cruz to shut down the government in a childish snit like Newt Gingrich. ... Oh, wait, he already did.
posted by JackFlash at 2:28 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've been calling her HRC (which has, to me, pleasing echoes of HRH).
posted by stolyarova at 2:28 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Unhelpful nonsense. The moderates still within the Republican party working overtime right now to stop Trump from even making it to the ballot are American heroes. Maybe I'd disagree with them on every other policy position, but there are Republicans more worried about the country than their party right now. They're patriots, and I respect and applaud them for it.

They are members of a party that has spent the last 20 years starting wars against countries overseas, eroding the human rights of women, POC, and other Not Christian White Straight Men at home, and fostering the power of the utter dregs of racist, sexist, and hate-full American assholes.

Their party is the reason Trump is in the position he's in. They aren't heroes -- it's the literal least they can do right now.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:30 PM on July 12, 2016 [29 favorites]


what is the deal with Very Significant Capitalization and the lunatic fringe in politics? it happens on both extremes of the spectrum.
posted by murphy slaw at 2:31 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


I don't think Obama will be bothered all that much by Ted Cruz during the flight.

Cruz will likely spend most of this time resting, suspended in a pressurized tank filled with nutrient fluid extracted from several hundred cans of Campbell's Chunky Soup in order to feed and rejuvenate.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:34 PM on July 12, 2016 [19 favorites]


I do think people calling Clinton by her first name is maybe a little sexist, because usually using a first name is more casual and less respectful. Male politicians usually get called by their last names, and when men do get called by their first names it's often done to be insulting (e.g., calling Bush II "W", Trump "the Donald", etc.)

Even calling Bill Clinton "Bill" wasn't usually friendly or respectful.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:35 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Granted, the GOP's platform committee is already showing some stunning denial of reality and cognitive dissonance, but I just... does anyone on that platform committee seriously expect Donald Trump to take up the anti-pornography flag? Seriously? Donald Trump?

Also, we're all taking for granted that Trump is too cheap to actually pay for his porn consumption, right?

I preemptively curse anyone who follows this with speculation about Trump's porn kinks. I mean it. Don't be gross, people. Ew.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:35 PM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


aubilenon: I also prefer calling her Clinton, but people referred to the second President Bush by his middle initial plenty.

It seems like using the last name is more respectful - unless you're royalty - and it's usually more useful, too, because of our high variation in last names. (What do they do in Korea, where the majority has one of five or six surnames?) So I try to use last names. But then there's someone like LeBron James, where calling him "James" is a lot less confusing than calling him "LeBron". Clinton is in a similar-ish position because of Bill, but it's usually clear enough from context who "Clinton" refers to, so that's what I use. But that's not my first instinct, because "Hillary" is slightly less confusing. Less confusing, but also less respectful, so "Clinton" it is.
posted by clawsoon at 2:36 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Granted, the GOP's platform committee is already showing some stunning denial of reality and cognitive dissonance, but I just... does anyone on that platform committee seriously expect Donald Trump to take up the anti-pornography flag? Seriously? Donald Trump?

I'm outraged that the anti-masturbation plank got left off the platform. I expect the nominee to take my issue to Washington and act on it, damn it.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:37 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


He is the only candidate to appear on the cover of Playboy.
posted by peeedro at 2:39 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


ennui.bz: "while increasing taxes on the wealthy might not be a bad thing to do, in the context of economic policy, increasing taxes is part of an austerity policy by decreasing the supply of money in the private economy."

Perhaps. In a strict sense, I agree that a policy without tax increases would be considered more expansionary than one with them. Although given the differing marginal propensities to spend between rich and poor (i.e.: coarsely put, rich people tend to just sit on their excess income), I can see an argument that a set of tax increases targeted at the wealthy would not be a significant brake on an expansionary policy. Whether this counts as "austerity" will likely depend on the exact implementation (e.g.: will 100% of every dollar spent be recouped by tax increase?, over what time periods will the spending and taxation occur?, what is the threshold for "wealthy"?, will it be implemented primarily as a marginal tax rate increase or more on the capital gains and/or dividends side?). If she were proposing a 100% revenue-neutral plan in all time periods (i.e.: all spending increases in 2017-2018 would be exactly offset by tax increases in 2017-2018) with a big chunk of the taxes being paid by people in the middle brackets, then I'd agree that this would be not a good plan. If she were proposing something where spending increases in 2017-2018 would be offset by increases in a combination of cap gains/dividend/estate taxes and top bracket marginal rates in 2020 and beyond, then I think this would be a better plan. In the interview, she alludes to "short-term decisions" about spending being offset by a "revenue stream to pay them back in the future" which makes me think that she's given some thought to the effects of timing on stimulus and budgetary constraints.
posted by mhum at 2:39 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Granted, the GOP's platform committee is already showing some stunning denial of reality and cognitive dissonance, but I just... does anyone on that platform committee seriously expect Donald Trump to take up the anti-pornography flag? Seriously? Donald Trump?

Not to mention the Playboy cover photo bomb last month. ;D
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:39 PM on July 12, 2016


On the one hand, it would be amazing if a moderator brought up the anti-masturbation position in a debate.

On the other hand, I don't know if I want to hear either Trump or Clinton talk about masturbation.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:40 PM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm outraged that the anti-masturbation plank got left off the platform.

I know! They rubbed it right out of the document.
posted by zarq at 2:40 PM on July 12, 2016 [30 favorites]


I do think people calling Clinton by her first name is maybe a little sexist, because usually using a first name is more casual and less respectful.

This would be a more believable criticism if she didn't market her campaign as "Hillary" rather than "Clinton".
posted by indubitable at 2:40 PM on July 12, 2016 [23 favorites]


> Trump promised convention speaker schedule last Wed. A week later, the only person scheduled is George Washington.

I am now horrified by the sudden thought that Trump now has Bill & Ted's phone booth, and the only thing saving us all is that his lack of object permanence means he forgot about it as soon it was out of his line of sight.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:49 PM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


This would be a more believable criticism if she didn't market her campaign as "Hillary" rather than "Clinton".

It's the same dynamic, expressed differently. Women who show ambition are seen more negatively, so she uses her first name - a less "respectful" appellation - as a way to soften her image.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:51 PM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


I've been calling her HRC
I saw some publicity about a cooperative effort between Black Lives Matter and the Human Rights Coalition that referred to it as HRC and I got SO CONFUSED.

And hang the middle names, I will always refer to the 41st and 43rd Presidents as Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. And if the occasion ever arises, the 2nd and 6th Presidents as Adams Sr. and Adams Jr. To that I can only add Mr. Clinton and Mrs. Clinton.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:53 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


we're all taking for granted that Trump is too cheap to actually pay for his porn consumption, right?

Surely, that's the only thing he does that a majority of Americans endorse.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:59 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's the same dynamic, expressed differently. Women who show ambition are seen more negatively, so she uses her first name - a less "respectful" appellation - as a way to soften her image.

OK, but it's ridiculous to denounce people for identifying someone in the manner in which she requests to be identified.
posted by indubitable at 3:04 PM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]


I think we've litigated the Clinton vs Hillary vs HRC vs Mrs. Clinton vs Clintonillary thing in every prior thread, maybe it gets a rest here?
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:11 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


I don't think Obama will be bothered all that much by Ted Cruz during the flight.

They both have daughters. Maybe they can talk about that?

As to the Hillary vs. Clinton I admit to often referring to her as Hillary in the beginning of her campaign but surely now when we talk about Clinton everyone knows we are talking about her. If we need to bring up her spouse then we can refer to him as Bill or Mr. Clinton.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:15 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


If we need to bring up her spouse then we can refer to him as Bill or Mr. Clinton.

42.
posted by zarq at 3:18 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy: They both have daughters. Maybe they can talk about that?

They can talk about Michelle Obama vs. Heidi Cruz, 2024.
posted by clawsoon at 3:19 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think it's pretty simple, like, if you are referring to him as Trump then you refer to her as Clinton. Call her Hillary Clinton if you feel like she may be confused for her husband. It isn't that hard to treat the candidates the same.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 3:32 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Give her a break, it's not like she was dancing at a funeral

The Dancer speaks
Speaking at a memorial service at the Morton H. Meyerson Symphony Center in Dallas five days after rogue gunman Micah Johnson killed five police officers and wounded seven other officers patrolling a Black Lives Matter protest, Bush said "those of us who love Dallas and call it home have had five deaths in the family."

But the 43rd president urged the country not to give into fear or xenophobia in the wake of the attack.

"Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions, and this has strained our bonds of understanding and common purpose," Bush said.

Though he didn't single out Trump by name, the brash billionaire loomed as the proverbial 800-pound gorilla in the room.
The 800-pound gorilla stirs the pot:
Trump suggested that a lack of training for officers might be at least partially to blame for the two police shootings that led to last Thursday’s protest in Dallas, where a lone gunman killed five in an act of vengeance against white officers. At the same time, Trump denounced the name of the Black Lives Matter movement as “a very divisive term.” [snip]

“When President Obama said the other day that he doesn’t think it’s as bad as people think, I think it’s far worse and certainly far worse than he believes it is,” Trump said. “We are in a divided nation. I looked two nights ago and you were having trouble in 11 different cities, big, big trouble. And the press actually plays it down.

“I mean, you were having big, big trouble in many cities. And I think that might be just the beginning for this summer.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


About that RNC platform committee...
Until mid-week, they will be voting on America’s tax policies and the party’s orientation toward LGBT issues—but there are legitimate questions about their previous words and deeds.

For example, Cynthia Dunbar of Virginia once compared the gay rights movement to efforts “in pre-Holocaust Germany, as far as propaganda and presentation and swaying the whole mindset of a nation.”

Hardy Billington, of Missouri, took out an ad in a local paper saying that homosexuality is killing people at “two to three times the rate of smoking.”

The committee also features members such as Mary Forrester, of North Carolina, who wrote an op-ed in 2008 that alleged that the “homosexual agenda is seeking to change the course of Western Civilization” and that “most societies that condoned homosexual behavior did not survive past one generation.”

And David Barton, a committee member from Texas, believes that God is preventing the medical profession from finding a cure for HIV/AIDS, and claimed that gay people die “decades earlier” than others and have more than 500 partners apiece in their lifetimes.
Meanwhile a number of committee members formulating the the party’s national policies on taxes are delinquent in their taxes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:46 PM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]


I've seen the following blog entry shared around by the few Bernie or bust people I've not unfollowed. While it's still very anti-Hillary in tone, the writer is going to vote for her because that's what Bernie wants. So there still lots of Clinton derangement syndrome out there, but Sanders endorsement is bringing at least some into the fold today.

What Bernie Gave to America Today
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:51 PM on July 12, 2016


Trump suggested that a lack of training for officers might be at least partially to blame for the two police shootings that led to last Thursday’s protest in Dallas

Thomas Friedman (I know, I know) tells a story in his book The Lexus and the Olive Tree about then Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad. In 1997, during the Asian financial crisis, Mohamad kept accusing George Soros and Jews of deliberately devaluing Malaysia's currency, the ringgit. The world wasn't quite as interconnected as it is today, but globalization was spreading and Mohamad's tirades were making the news elsewhere.

Friedman speculates that the Prime Minister's advisors probably had to go to him at one point and say, "Look, you said this about the Jews on Monday. And the ringgit fell to here. Then on Tuesday you accused George Soros of attacking Malaysia. And the ringgit fell even further. On Wednesday, you were back to accusing the Jews. And now the ringgit was really in trouble. Today is Thursday. You accused George Soros and Jewish bankers of trying to trigger a recession. And the ringgit is now in freefall. Prime Minister? SHUT UP!"

I keep thinking about that story every time Trump opens his mouth. And I have to wonder when the hell his advisors are going to come to him and say, "In May you insulted Veterans and War Heroes and your poll numbers fell to here...."
posted by zarq at 3:56 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


> “I mean, you were having big, big trouble in many cities. And I think that might be just the beginning for this summer.”

God though but this reads like a threat instead of a prediction.

Ways Donald Trump is like Cersei Lannister:
  1. Is sexually attracted to his blood relatives.
  2. is completely willing to blow literally everything up for personal benefit/the lulz.

posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:00 PM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]


Avery's Beverages, a 112-year-old soda maker in New Britain, is offering Trump Tonic and Hillary Hooch - named, of course, for Republican Donald Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton.

It's the third straight presidential campaign that Avery's has offered candidate-based drinks. The company will also be conducting a highly unscientific straw poll to track the race.

Trump Tonic comes with the slogan, "Make America grape again." It's got a bolder flavor than traditional grape soda and is a bit more acidic, says Rob Metz, Avery's general manager.
Hillary Hooch (interesting choice of names in light of our discussion) is berry flavored.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:02 PM on July 12, 2016


(What Bernie Gave To America Today)
While it's still very anti-Hillary in tone, the writer is going to vote for her because that's what Bernie wants. So there still lots of Clinton derangement syndrome out there...


That's an understatement! These excerpts sound like the ramblings of a brain-washed cult member:
Today, my hero, Bernie Sanders, endorsed Hillary Clinton, a woman that I truly believe is sociopathic, for the office of the President of the United States ...

Bernie Sanders is a prophet and a Buddha...

Bernie Sanders is The Truth...

I, like you, wanted Bernie to win the Presidency and there is little doubt that he could have done so through an Independent run...

Bernie Sanders just saved millions of lives...
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:04 PM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


I keep thinking about that story every time Trump opens his mouth. And I have to wonder when the hell his advisors are going to come to him and say, "In May you insulted Veterans and War Heroes and your poll numbers fell to here...."

Trump is more accustomed to an underling greeting him with a click of his heels and a hearty "Heil Hitler" than with disagreement or criticism.

Ways Donald Trump is like Cersei Lannister:

Both Trump and Cersei are textbook narcissistic personality disorder cases.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:06 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump is like Cersei Thrones from the hit show House of Cards, available now on Starz Online: Why at least 300 people need to read this article so I can afford a new roll of toilet paper
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:10 PM on July 12, 2016 [24 favorites]


If she were proposing a 100% revenue-neutral plan in all time periods (i.e.: all spending increases in 2017-2018 would be exactly offset by tax increases in 2017-2018) with a big chunk of the taxes being paid by people in the middle brackets, then I'd agree that this would be not a good plan. If she were proposing something where spending increases in 2017-2018 would be offset by increases in a combination of cap gains/dividend/estate taxes and top bracket marginal rates in 2020 and beyond, then I think this would be a better plan. In the interview, she alludes to "short-term decisions" about spending being offset by a "revenue stream to pay them back in the future" which makes me think that she's given some thought to the effects of timing on stimulus and budgetary constraints.

the problem is that, combined with the contraction at the state level, the fiscal response to the "great recession" has been, at best neutral and the status quo is anemic growth and anemic demand. meanwhile, basic infrastructure is universally acknowledged to be in terrible shape: water supply, bridges, electrical grid, etc. At the same time, as Klein notes, the bond market is paying the US government to loan it money.

It really hard to read Clinton's response as something other than an endorsement of this status quo. She would tie infrastructure spending to tax increases with maybe a little borrowing, but certainly not on the scale of the US infrastructure *deficit*, much less as a plan to stimulate the economy.

it's a fiscally conservative response to an economy which is malingering.
posted by ennui.bz at 4:18 PM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]



She didn't say it's not free because it would be paid by taxes, she said it's not free because the plan involves states voluntarily shouldering some of the burden -- the same states which are currently in the process of saying "fuck you, higher education," and also have previously set fire to no-strings-attached federal money because it came from Obamacare.


It's an odd response to whether she supports "free college" or not. Anway, this how all federal "mandates" work. The states are free to reject federal money for roads, schools, airports etc. The reason so many states rejected the ACA Medicaid expansion is that Congress and the SC made it easy for them to do so. If all federal Medicaid money was tied to the states picking up the expansion, then no state would have rejected it.

It's not that expensive and it's an easy policy to implement, even if it isn't the best idea. She could have come out against it as she has in the past. But her response, again, promotes Republican ideas about how federal mandates work and suggests that it would be a difficult policy to implement. Which it just isn't.
posted by ennui.bz at 4:25 PM on July 12, 2016


Does anyone misunderstand what definition of "free" is at play here?

The "well it isn't really free" is often used as a gotcha by the right when discussing things that in other countries are free at the point of service (which is what "free" is short hand for here). To pre-empt that stupid derail nonsense, you have to clarify that you know that it's funded by taxes already, you don't need 800 freepers pointing that out to you.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:31 PM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


Even calling Bill Clinton "Bill" wasn't usually friendly or respectful.

My oven's on high when I roast the quail
Tell Bill Clinton to go and inhale
posted by juiceCake at 4:31 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Comparing Cersei to Trump isn't very nice to Cersei, yeah she's an all around awful person but she seems to care about her family and to be quite frank lives in a sadsack world where her sort of petty villainy seems pretty normal in comparison.

Trump on the other hand has no excuses and just seems to relish being an utter dickhead.
posted by vuron at 4:48 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


I keep thinking about that story every time Trump opens his mouth. And I have to wonder when the hell his advisors are going to come to him and say, "In May you insulted Veterans and War Heroes and your poll numbers fell to here...."

Never happen. Have you read George Packer in the New Yorker on Trump? He's very much a long read, but he has some interesting tidbits on how Trump works his rallies. The reason he doesn't use a prompter and goes from loose notes is that he's relying on his sales skills. He reads the room and works the crowd. And he's damn good at it, that's why his rallies walk the knife edge so often, he's very very good a riling up a crowd. So there's no scenario where he would hire somebody to tell him how to shape his message, appeal to X demographic or Y sub-population. His natural skill at telling people what they want to hear is his campaign, it's what he's depending on almost entitrely. Twitter, rallies and CNN. He really fundamentally doesn't believe that he needs money, needs ads, needs door-knockers.
posted by Diablevert at 4:53 PM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


Continually confused why people, even smart people like Ezra Klein, insist on the "But free college wouldn't actually be free" psuedo-clarification.

It does seem beside the point when the salient criticism is that under current circumstances the states cannot reasonably be expected to fund college tuition for all students. State governments operate far more restrictive budget circumstances than the federal government, are quite likely in many cases to drag their feet just to be stubborn, etc., etc.
posted by tobascodagama at 4:54 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


“I will be making a decision over the next three- to four-day period of time, and I think it will be a decision that will be a very good decision for a lot of people."

Real Trump is indistinguishable from Parody Trump.
posted by saul wright at 4:57 PM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]


I just saw Katy Tur (holder of the worst gig in TV journalsim) on MSNBC and she said the insiders in the Trump campaign think he'll pick Pence. BUT she pointed out, this is Trump and he could still veer off in another direction at any moment.
posted by Ber at 5:09 PM on July 12, 2016


I don't get the outrage over RBG's disapproval of Trump. Aren't Clarence Thomas and his wive open conservative activists? Didn't Scalia repeatedly criticize Obama?
posted by msalt at 5:20 PM on July 12, 2016 [27 favorites]


Newt must be the leading candidate for secretary of the mooooooon (or the rolling donut)?
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:21 PM on July 12, 2016


I thought Newt's title was to be Leader (Possibly) of the Civilizing Forces.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:23 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


When the staff gets riled up or disorganized, Newt's job will be to remind them that The Trump mostly comes out at night. Mostly.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 5:27 PM on July 12, 2016 [17 favorites]


I don't get the outrage over RBG's disapproval of Trump.

It's Okalee-Dokalee if You're a Republicarino.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:28 PM on July 12, 2016 [16 favorites]


msalt- the standard for liberal justices is to be quiet or preferably retire, this is definitely a case where what was good for the Scalia is not good for the RBG.
posted by vuron at 5:28 PM on July 12, 2016


I don't get the outrage over RBG's disapproval of Trump. Aren't Clarence Thomas and his wive open conservative activists?

Google "iokiyar"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:28 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


ennui.bz: "the problem is that, combined with the contraction at the state level, the fiscal response to the "great recession" has been, at best neutral"

I agree 100% with this. I seem to recall seeing some charts showing that if they had even kept the federal workforce (never mind at the state level) at stable levels, overall employment (and probably the economy as a whole) would have recovered much, much quicker.

It really hard to read Clinton's response as something other than an endorsement of this status quo.

And, I'm also sympathetic to this view. However, as much as I personally would have loved it, I don't think Clinton was ever realistically going to propose, say, a new WPA program. I think this is probably partly an aspect of her incrementalist policy approach, partly due to political pragmatism, but also partly due to the fact that, like it or not, the worst of the Great Recession seems to have passed and with it that crisis-level sense of urgency. The headline unemployment rate is almost back to where it was pre-2008 (4.7% vs. 4.4%), although 25-54 labor force participation is still noticeably lower (80% vs. 83%) and U6, a broader measure of unemployment and underemployment, still has a way to go (9.6% vs. 8.0%). Even various wage measures (e.g.: average hourly earnings, median weekly earnings) are trending slightly upwards (though very slightly indeed). And granted, I think we all feel the brittleness and instability of our economic systems, so these modestly positive economic indicators could easily be reversed overnight (e.g.: Brexit fallout, Chinese recession, etc...)

I believe there may have been a window in 2008-2009 where a massive stimulus (read: deficit spending) proposal might have been more politically tractable given the severity of the global financial crisis. And I've often thought of Obama's reluctance and/or inability to push for more stimulus measures as a noticeable blemish on his presidential record. Having to spend all 8 years of his two terms just to return employment to almost but not quite where it was at the end of Bush's term seems like a serious waste of human potential in the workforce. But now, I fear, that window has closed and we'll need to start from scratch to lay the groundwork and make the case for spending.
posted by mhum at 5:44 PM on July 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


No matter who becomes the nominee, the RNC convention will probably appear to be a poorly done funerary illusion to at least one of the involved group.

(Also, I envision corb et al. putting little sticky things on the back of Trump's $5000 suit. I couldn't find a clip of that.)
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:03 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Granted, the GOP's platform committee is already showing some stunning denial of reality and cognitive dissonance, but I just... does anyone on that platform committee seriously expectDonald Trump to take up the anti-pornography flag? Seriously? Donald Trump?

Also, we're all taking for granted that Trump is too cheap to actually pay for his porn consumption, right?

I preemptively curse anyone who follows this with speculation about Trump's porn kinks. I mean it. Don't be gross, people. Ew.


Donald Trump doesn't need pornography. Donald Trump has all the best mirrors.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:05 PM on July 12, 2016 [17 favorites]


Hillary Hooch (interesting choice of names in light of our discussion) is berry flavored.

They missed a golden opportunity: Sarsaparillary
posted by rifflesby at 6:20 PM on July 12, 2016 [30 favorites]


Trump Tonic comes with the slogan, "Make America grape again." It's got a bolder flavor than traditional grape soda and is a bit more acidic, says Rob Metz, Avery's general manager.

Lord help me, that actually sounds tasty. ::sends $3 to Hillary as penance::
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:26 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


From Politico, "Will Trump’s Nomination Be the End of the Religious Right?".
The resulting divisions in the religious right movement have grown so deep that, 40 years after its creation, the very existence of this previously unified and politically powerful voting bloc is under threat. “The only thing about [Trump] that makes him vote-worthy is that he’s a Republican,” Farris says. “If that’s it, then we’re the church glee club for the Republican Party—and not the Christian right.”
As usual, Betteridge's law probably holds but there are some interesting bits in that article about these emerging rifts. In particular, the article highlights a split between the current head of the SBC's policy arm, who is anti-Trump and a former SBC president who actually sits on Trump's advisory board as well as a couple of evangelical groups who have gone so far as to endorse Clinton.
posted by mhum at 6:39 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]






Obama B. United States Health Care Reform: Progress to Date and Next Steps. JAMA. Published online July 11, 2016. doi:10.1001/jama.2016.9797.

This is the best academic byline of all time:
Corresponding Author: Barack Obama, JD, The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500

lollllllllll amazing
posted by mostly vowels at 6:57 PM on July 12, 2016 [43 favorites]


This post is a little long, but please stay with me... It is Very Important nonetheless...

You may not have been aware, but any variation on that phrase means "you can stop reading right now, nothing important follows, and has a low probability of even being coherent".
posted by bongo_x at 7:23 PM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]


It's 2016, ladies, tell your husbands: Vote for HER!

I could not love this comment more.
posted by greermahoney at 7:26 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


okay, now they are just blantantly fucking with us

Brexit leader Farage plans to attend GOP convention
posted by murphy slaw at 7:31 PM on July 12, 2016 [21 favorites]


I thought Trump was using anti-Muslim bigotry as his main appeal to the Christian Right. It might be enough, at least for those bigots who correlate dark skin with non-Christianity (after all, Jesus was almost blonde, all his pictures show that).
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:54 PM on July 12, 2016


Hey does anyone have any sense of the PUMA of old are actually supporting Clinton this time around? Or did they decide she was a traitor because she endorsed Obama?
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:39 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


There were like six of them. Who cares?
posted by dersins at 8:43 PM on July 12, 2016 [15 favorites]


Hey does anyone have any sense of the PUMA of old are actually supporting Clinton this time around? Or did they decide she was a traitor because she endorsed Obama?

I don't know about the wider group, but Amy Siskind, for one, has remained a vocal Clinton supporter.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:01 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


I ask because I wonder sometimes how much support any given candidate has from inside or outside the party. My sense is that many (but not most) Sanders supporters are not Democrats while many (indeed the vast majority) of the PUMA were.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:09 PM on July 12, 2016


Besides the Chair, what I want to see at the Republican convention is Clint Eastwood in a Hannibal Lecter mask and strait jacket rolled out strapped to a dolly.
posted by y2karl at 9:34 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


If Clint makes an appearance at the convention this year, he MUST walk out while carrying the "fake baby" from that scene in "American Sniper", then throw it out into the audience. That's Trump-level showmanship.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:40 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


So as of tonight, my Facebook feed is:
60% "Now that's over with, go Hillary and let's beat Trump"
40% Denial, Anger, Bargaining, and then more denial and anger

I get the sense, though, it's not much to worry about and there just isn't a heavy PUMA attitude. The biggest anti-Hillary person seems to have come around to supporting her already.
posted by dw at 10:02 PM on July 12, 2016


And unsurprisingly, Gary Johnson is trying to poach from both parties, targeting Bernie voters in his new ad. The money quote is, "If you're still feeling the Bern, and feeling burned because the Clinton machine rolled over your ideals..."
posted by corb at 10:03 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jesus Christ I'm not sure people even have a clue.

First reply:
As a lifelong registered Democrat who supported Bernie Sanders, I can't support the party's nominee this cycle. I will now vote Libertarian. Thanks for providing us with a reliable third party Gary Johnson.
THEY ARE NOTHING ALIKE. GARY JOHNSON DOESN'T HOLD LIBERAL IDEALS. HE IS NOT A BETTER STAND IN FOR A THIRD WAY MODERATE. THE ONLY THING HE AND BERNIE AGREE ON IS LEGALIZING POT.

I mean sure, if all you want to do is sit there and get high then by all means vote Gary Johnson. But Jesus Christ do you even know what you're saying? It's like giving a vote to a five year old. "Mommy won't let me have ice cream so I vote we burn the house down!"
posted by Talez at 10:14 PM on July 12, 2016 [48 favorites]


The Sanders campaign was an unmitigated success.

Pretty much inclined to agree here! When Sanders entered the race, my main hope was that he would be able to push the eventual nominee's campaign to the left on redistribution, financial regulation, and providing for vulnerable citizens. I didn't agree with every single thing he or his campaign staff did towards the end, and I certainly agree that unfortunately, Clinton came into the race in a "one-down" position because of her gender, but I also think he massively outperformed my expectations (also Harry Enten's, heh: "No candidate since 1972 started that far down to a front-runner and came so close to winning.").

Speaking for myself, ultimately, I'm pretty happy with the outcome. I'm actually more excited for a Clinton presidency now that her campaign has shown some willingness to adopt some planks of Bernie's, especially with the prospect of some accompanying movement in the legislative branch (of course Dems are still massively screwed in the House by redistricting... my hope there is more for 2018).
posted by en forme de poire at 11:14 PM on July 12, 2016 [16 favorites]



Just in case it hasn't been posted already:

Obama B. United States Health Care Reform: Progress to Date and Next Steps. JAMA. Published online July 11, 2016. doi:10.1001/jama.2016.9797.


effbot, that is a wonderful, wonderful thing, and I'm glad I skimmed all the way to the bottom of this thread so I could download that. Thank you!
posted by kristi at 11:32 PM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I kinda wish Obama'd had a co-author just so I could be more likely to have a finite Obama Number but a single-author paper in JAMA from a sitting president is a whole new level of awesome wonkery.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:38 PM on July 12, 2016 [29 favorites]


Meanwhile, at Trump HQ, Trump laments that Obama had a scholarly article published while the only thing Trump ever had published was a letter to Penthouse signed "Donny Big-hands."
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:39 AM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


> "This is the best academic byline of all time ..."

Clicking on "Author Affiliations" is pretty fun, too.
posted by kyrademon at 1:56 AM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Remember the Quinnipiac poll that had Clinton ahead in Florida 47-39%? They redid their swing state polls last week and now they have Trump ahead either 42-39% or 41-36% depending on whether third party candidates are included.

What the hell, Florida? Get it together.

They also have Clinton and Trump tied in Ohio and Trump ahead by 2 in Pennsylvania.

Ugh, it's going to be a long four months. I'm going to start hitting refresh on these polls every five minutes.
posted by Justinian at 4:10 AM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Huffington's graphs of multiple polls show that Pennsylvania still has Clinton ahead by 4.5 and Florida has her up by 2.2.
posted by octothorpe at 4:53 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, at the moment I'm inclined to see this as an outlier, although if other polls start rolling in with similar figures I reserve the right to panic.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:08 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


NYTimes: Let’s Grow Up, Liberals: I sympathize with those who believe that Hillary Clinton represents a tired, compromised, laggingly conservative wing of the Democratic Party leadership. They have a point. But she is the nominee and, as Mr. Sanders now concurs, the only alternative to an unspeakable alternative.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:23 AM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


If the convention is not a disaster, there may be an additional Trump bounce coming. It will be temporary. DON'T PANIC.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:27 AM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


Huffington's graphs of multiple polls show that Pennsylvania still has Clinton ahead by 4.5 and Florida has her up by 2.2.

I still think she's going to lose Florida. I think it's also probably the one state that Trump picks up that Romney lost. Of course it'll matter little when he fails to pick up any others in addition to losing some of the states that Romney won.

Then again, I didn't think Cruz would remain so oblivious to his own unpopularity that he would stay in the primaries long enough to give Trump the nomination, so what the heck do I know?
posted by dances with hamsters at 5:28 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fivethirtyeight is currently giving Clinton a 67.7% chance of winning Florida.
posted by octothorpe at 5:31 AM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


But Jesus Christ do you even know what you're saying? It's like giving a vote to a five year old. "Mommy won't let me have ice cream so I vote we burn the house down!"

If I had just read the last two lines of your post I would have never thought you were referring to the Libertarian candidate.
posted by dances with hamsters at 5:32 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hey does anyone have any sense of the PUMA of old are actually supporting Clinton this time around? Or did they decide she was a traitor because she endorsed Obama?

At least some are now backing Trump.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:34 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


According to Twitter, Giuliani is confirmed for the Republican Convention. (He's also in the news for calling Black Lives Matter "inherently racist.") Tom Cotton is also confirmed to speak.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:42 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


But if you had to choose: "They could have picked...," from Eliot Weinberger, in the London Review of Books. "Last January, the unpronounceable Reince Priebus, chairman of the Republican National Committee, surveying his party’s throng of presidential aspirants, tweeted: ‘It’s clear we’ve got the most well-qualified and diverse field of candidates from any party in history.’ Why, the world wonders, did they end up with Donald Trump as their nominee?"
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:59 AM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


the unpronounceable Reince Priebus

Rinse 'n' Repeatus
posted by kirkaracha at 6:28 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


He should always be referred to as such. Like the Unsinkable Molly Brown. The Unpronounceable Reince Priebus. Or perhaps, "You know who."
posted by wabbittwax at 6:31 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've always enjoyed Pierce's "obvious anagram Reince Priebus".
posted by zombieflanders at 6:35 AM on July 13, 2016 [15 favorites]


Disemvoweling him produces RNC PR BS, and that's so perfect that he's clearly a badly written second-tier bad guy.
posted by Etrigan at 6:37 AM on July 13, 2016 [32 favorites]


Hey does anyone have any sense of the PUMA of old are actually supporting Clinton this time around?

They were Hillary Clinton’s die-hard loyalists. Here’s where they are now. (WaPo, May '15)

Pat Gund wrote "A PUMA Revisit." (April '15)

Hillary Clinton’s 2008 Dead-Enders Fight On (BuzzFeed, Oct, '12)

A very cursory glance at the blogs/twitters of the principle PUMAs tells/suggests to me that Harriet Christiansen is dead, Heidi Li Feldman is supporting Clinton and seems to have come to her senses, Riverdaughter is supporting Clinton and still sounds like a crank, Darragh Murphy's PUMAPAC twitter seems sympathetic to Clinton but it's hard to tell, and I assume without even looking that Kevin DuJan is as insane as ever.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:43 AM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


But if you had to choose: "They could have picked...," from Eliot Weinberger, in the London Review of Books. "Last January, the unpronounceable Reince Priebus, chairman of the Republican National Committee, surveying his party’s throng of presidential aspirants, tweeted: ‘It’s clear we’ve got the most well-qualified and diverse field of candidates from any party in history.’ Why, the world wonders, did they end up with Donald Trump as their nominee?"

"All the other candidates were even worse or just as bad" is a pretty bleak answer to that question.
They could have picked Marco Rubio, the Cuban-American freshman senator from Florida, who openly declared the Senate a waste of his time and had its highest absentee record. [...] He was mysteriously considered to be a ‘moderate’, despite hardline positions on Creationism, gay rights, military intervention, immigration, environmental regulation etc. On climate change, although he comes from the state most threatened by rising seas, he notably declared that ‘you can’t change the weather’ by passing a law in Washington. Asked how old the earth is, he replied: ‘I’m not a scientist, man.’ He has proposed completely eliminating the taxes paid by the rich: capital gains, dividends, interest, estate and property. He believes that abortion has become an ‘industry’: ‘You’ve created an incentive for people to be pushed into abortions so that those tissues can be harvested and sold for a profit.’
[...]
They could have picked Ted Cruz, the freshman senator from Texas. Cruz may be unique among politicians anywhere in that every mention of his name is always accompanied by remarks on his loathsomeness.

[...]

He supports Trump’s plan to deport 11 million undocumented migrants immediately – 3 per cent of the US population – but, unlike Trump, he would not allow what Trump calls the ‘good ones’ to reapply. He believes that the 1992 United Nations resolution Agenda 21 – a non-binding call for environmental sustainability signed by 178 heads of state, including George Bush Sr, is an attempt to ‘abolish … golf courses, grazing passages, and paved roads’. According to Cruz, ‘the originator of this grand scheme is George Soros, who candidly supports socialism and believes that global development must progress through eliminating national sovereignty and private property.’ He has said that ‘the scientific evidence doesn’t support global warming,’ and that there ‘has been no significant warming whatsoever for the last 18 years’. He maintains that ‘Sharia law is an enormous problem’ in the United States.
[...]
With the Republican convention only days away, many Republicans, worried about their own re-election, have decided to stay away. Even Ohio governor John Kasich is avoiding the most important Republican event in his state since 1936. They are appalled that, given the ‘well-qualified and diverse field of candidates’, the voters have chosen a man of so little knowledge and such extremist views.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:53 AM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


In PA , OH, Quinnipiac polls find smaller proportions of black+Latino reg voters than in 2012 exit polls: 15 vs. 19 in PA, 14 vs. 18 in OH. (cite)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:10 AM on July 13, 2016


google "iokiyar"

IOKIYAR Academy of Science
Main article: IOKIYAR Academy of Science

Founded by Ernest L. Norman and his wife, Ruth, in 1954, the IOKIYARians are a group headquartered in El Cajon, California, who believe that, through the use of fourth dimensional physics, they are able to communicate with supposed advanced intelligent beings that allegedly exist on "higher frequency" planes. IOKIYARians believe in past lives and hold that the Solar System was once inhabited by ancient interplanetary civilizations.
posted by Naberius at 7:20 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


But if you had to choose: "They could have picked...," from Eliot Weinberger, in the London Review of Books.

MonkeyToes, this is spectacular.

The end is chilling:

"Ohio, under kindly Uncle Kasich, has ‘open carry’ laws. After the shootings in Dallas, jumpy policemen are awaiting streets full of demonstrators packing AR-15s."

posted by zarq at 7:27 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]




The most horrifying thing about Reince Priebus is that his given name is Reinhold Richard Priebus. He chose this.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:44 AM on July 13, 2016 [11 favorites]


In PA , OH, Quinnipiac polls find smaller proportions of black+Latino reg voters than in 2012 exit polls

That's an issue worth tracking--are there GOP vote-suppression effects that could make 2016 different from 2012?

But I also thought it was interesting that one of the replies in your cite also pointed out:

I think any poll that shows Clinton only getting 51% of nonwhite voters has to be an outlier.

I'm assuming that that referred to today's Quinnipiac polls. If that's true, it could point to internal flaws in the polling.

Those polls (Trump up slightly in PA, OH, etc.) could be problematic for another reason as well--they show outsized responses for Johnson and Stein, the two of them together getting 13% of the total in Ohio. That's not impossible, but extremely unlikely to happen in real life on election day.

There are plenty of discussions out there around including third-party candidates in polls like this, this kind of poll is still interesting, but I'm going to be wary of using it as a predictor for November unless there's an ongoing trend of either Johnson or Stein (both of whom have basically zero name recognition at the moment) getting consistent support.
posted by gimonca at 7:47 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think making fun of Reince Priebus's name is kind of shitty, actually.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:47 AM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


(Also, the polls for months so far have been a solid wall of blue "Clinton leads" results. There will be a lot of pressure on media-entertainment pundits to play up anything that smells like a positive poll for Trump, because otherwise there's no story to report. Whether the poll is valid or not won't make a difference to people who make a living off the news cycle.)
posted by gimonca at 7:50 AM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


They could have picked Marco Rubio, the Cuban-American freshman senator from Florida, who openly declared the Senate a waste of his time and had its highest absentee record.

And yet somehow he's running for re-election anyway.
posted by dnash at 7:51 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think making fun of Reince Priebus's name is kind of shitty, actually.

You're right.
Especially since he chose to be a Reince when he could have chosen to be a Dick.
posted by Floydd at 7:51 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]




Potentially good news for those who want her to keep fighting the good fight in the Senate: Boston Globe - Elizabeth Warren gets prime speaking spot at Democratic convention:
In an apparent sign that US Senator Elizabeth Warren will not be named Hillary Clinton’s running mate, Warren was invited by Clinton’s campaign Tuesday to deliver a prime-time address on the first night of the Democratic convention this month — a marquee speaking slot, but one that is earlier than vice-presidential picks typically appear.
posted by palindromic at 7:59 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Qpolls have been awful this cycle

I don't know if they just have a bad RV/LV filter but damn their number have been consistent outliers.
posted by vuron at 8:00 AM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


I love the idea of Trump coming at RBG as if they're on the same level.

[ Beyoncé selling 'Boycott Beyoncé' tshirts as tour merch . gif ]
posted by you're a kitty! at 8:03 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]




Why don't we see Times headlines like that every time Scalia says something brazenly political?
posted by peacheater at 8:16 AM on July 13, 2016 [10 favorites]


because of ancient aliens from the fourth dimension, as naberius explained upthread
posted by ryanrs at 8:19 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


If Scalia says anything now, political or otherwise, I think it’ll be front-page news.
posted by nicepersonality at 8:20 AM on July 13, 2016 [67 favorites]


Ha, touche!
posted by peacheater at 8:28 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


ZOMBIE SCALIA ENDORSES TRUMP, REQUESTS BRAINS
posted by murphy slaw at 8:29 AM on July 13, 2016 [28 favorites]


NOW can we stop treating the New York Times like it's "the paper of record" and admit it's as dependent on the Trumpster Fire for its audience as the New York Post? (If it were a GOOD newspaper and not just a Trump Hometown Paper, it would've run enough investigative reporting on Dishonest Don YEARS ago for him to be sharing a jail cell with Bernie Madoff)

As for future FPP's on Metafilter: JUST SAY NYET TO THE NYT.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:31 AM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


Donald Trump Is Right About Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg (NYTimes)
This WaPo article mentions that: Then-Justice Sandra Day O'Connor was criticized by some in 2000 after Newsweek reported her saying, "This is terrible," at an election-night watch party after Florida was prematurely called for Al Gore. Some argued that she should have recused herself from Bush v. Gore but that's right after they say that it's not clear if there's a precedent for what Ginsburg did. It seems to me that that's very comparable, at the very least relevant. I would expect responsible journalists to mention this, if only to talk about the parallels and differences.

This legal paper talks more about the possible conflicts of interestes in Bush v Gore. Apparently O'Connor did not just say "this is terrible" with "an air of obvious disgust" she also spread lies that Gore's campaign went into a nursing home and registered people they shouldn't have.
posted by blub at 8:34 AM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


(If it were a GOOD newspaper and not just a Trump Hometown Paper, it would've run enough investigative reporting on Dishonest Don YEARS ago for him to be sharing a jail cell with Bernie Madoff)

They have. They've quite literally been reporting about Donald Trump's terrible business practices and lawsuits for decades.

The paper's archives have more.
posted by zarq at 8:40 AM on July 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


NOW can we stop treating the New York Times like it's "the paper of record" and admit it's as dependent on the Trumpster Fire for its audience as the New York Post? (If it were a GOOD newspaper and not just a Trump Hometown Paper, it would've run enough investigative reporting on Dishonest Don YEARS ago for him to be sharing a jail cell with Bernie Madoff)

As for future FPP's on Metafilter: JUST SAY NYET TO THE NYT.


Go outside and take a walk. It'll do you good.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:42 AM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


They should definitely only allow justices who have no political opinions to rule on political cases. Is the family of anyone in a persistent vegetative state willing to volunteer them?
posted by indubitable at 8:43 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


If Scalia says anything now, political or otherwise, I think it’ll be front-page news.

"Heaven is hotter than I'd expected."
posted by leotrotsky at 8:49 AM on July 13, 2016 [31 favorites]


Is the family of anyone in a persistent vegetative state willing to volunteer them?

Trying to pack the court with Republicans?

I kid! No offense corb!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:50 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apparently the Trump campaign has a 12-year-old leaving voicemails for Colorado Republican delegates warning against #neverTrump.
posted by rewil at 8:59 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


because the one thing missing from the republican platform was child labor
posted by murphy slaw at 9:04 AM on July 13, 2016 [22 favorites]


Apparently the Trump campaign has a 12-year-old leaving voicemails for Colorado Republican delegates warning against #neverTrump.

You gotta start the Trumpjugend somewhere.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:04 AM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


I assume the call contained some vague threats involving cornfields
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:05 AM on July 13, 2016 [32 favorites]


O'Connor's situation is vastly different from what is happening with Ginsberg. It was well known that she wanted to retire from the court because of her husband, but felt that she couldn't as long as a Democrat held the office. That was the conflict of interest that she should have recused herself over.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:05 AM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Sanders’s campaign manager Jeff Weaver previews a very heavy campaigning schedule for him:

“I think the senator’s intentions is to stump quite heavily for the secretary all across the country, obviously and specifically in the battleground states. In addition to that, he’ll be campaigning for down-ballot progressive Democrats in states all across the country — whether they are battlegrounds or not in battlegrounds. I think you are going to see a lot of Senator Sanders on the stump.”

Wait, so all of those people who told you that Sanders would destroy the Democratic Party before backing Clinton got it completely wrong?


From WaPo Plum Line
posted by history_denier at 9:07 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


she also spread lies that Gore's campaign went into a nursing home and registered people they shouldn't have.

I have noted here before that in 1972, my Republican Activist mother prodded me into 'volunteering' for the party, and being a young person with a car, I was offered the chance to DO EXACTLY THAT. I didn't; I just worked the phone bank a couple hours and never went back. 1972.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:16 AM on July 13, 2016


Fresh from the deleted posts of MetaFilter, because cortex thought it probably belonged here instead:

A Facebook member posted a long and thoughtful analysis of the claim that HRC is "crooked." He argues that claim is untrue, but recurs every time HRC dares both to be female and to seek power. (The link to the original Facebook post, for those of you who Facebook, appears early in this daily Kos piece.)
posted by bearwife at 9:27 AM on July 13, 2016 [11 favorites]


O'Connor's situation is vastly different from what is happening with Ginsberg. It was well known that she wanted to retire from the court because of her husband, but felt that she couldn't as long as a Democrat held the office. That was the conflict of interest that she should have recused herself over.

Sorry, how are they different? You don't think Ginsberg is weighing retirement against who gets to the White House next year?
posted by indubitable at 9:34 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


You think RBG is holding out for a Republican?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:40 AM on July 13, 2016


O'Connor's situation is vastly different from what is happening with Ginsberg.
But the fact that she offered her opinion that one candidate winning a particular state was "terrible" with an "air of disgust" is a clear parallel, isn't it? It's so weird to me that most newspaper articles act as if it is unprecedented that a supreme court justice expresses an opinion about a presidential candidate, while that is exactly what O'Connor did too.
posted by blub at 9:50 AM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


So on the Trump front, twitter is exploding with BREAKING reports of everyone and their mother flying to Indiana (where Trump is) today, including Sessions, Gingrich, and Bill Kristol.
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:52 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


the security presentation part of the volunteer training for the DNC did not, perhaps understandably, include the words "white skinheads" or "Killadelphia" or "sometimes the crack heads hang out under the train"
posted by angrycat at 9:55 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sorry, how are they different? You don't think Ginsberg is weighing retirement against who gets to the White House next year?

Ginsberg, from what I have heard, would choose to leave the Court on her back - that is, she would prefer to die in office. However, she's also not stupid, which is why she would opt for strategic retirement.

So no, they're not the same, because RBG isn't looking for an out like O'Connor was.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:57 AM on July 13, 2016


Okay, this RBG derail reminds me of "the dogs may bark, but the caravan passes on." I'm more interested in Trump's hissy fits (and believe me, I'm really not very interested in those, except that this 'vulgar talking yam' has a non-zero chance of getting his thumb on the nuclear button) than I am in whether RBG is allowed to have a political opinion or not.

In the immortal words of Zombie Scalia, "Get over it."
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:05 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


So on the Trump front, twitter is exploding with BREAKING reports of everyone and their mother flying to Indiana (where Trump is) today, including Sessions, Gingrich, and Bill Kristol.

They put out a casting call for APPRENTICE: VEEP. Filming is on a short schedule.
posted by phearlez at 10:06 AM on July 13, 2016 [14 favorites]


So on the Trump front, twitter is exploding with BREAKING reports of everyone and their mother flying to Indiana (where Trump is) today, including Sessions, Gingrich, and Bill Kristol.

Maybe the way Trump is tricking people into coming to the RNC is by hinting to everyone that they'll be the VP nominee?
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:07 AM on July 13, 2016 [10 favorites]


Phearlz beat me to it with a much better version of the same bit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:08 AM on July 13, 2016


"You should come out for the convention. I got GREAT things planned for you. There'll be something special for you too. I give the best conventions."

*upon arrival at the convention
"Everybody who came out gets an honorary doctorate from Trump University! My running mate is myself. I'll be President and Vice President. Nobody vices like I vice."
posted by wabbittwax at 10:13 AM on July 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


Josh Marshall on Quinnipiac's polls from today.
So what's the upshot? If you're a Hillary supporter, the Q polls should be a source of concern but not worry. The Q poll has been consistently more friendly to the GOP. They appear to be modeling an electorate that is more white than recent elections suggest. But the move in Florida is substantial. (Also worth noting is that Monmouth yesterday released a poll with Trump ahead by two points in Iowa, another key swing state.) More to the point, the national numbers are just pretty close. They're ranging from a 3 to 6 point margin in the PollTracker average. I would certainly prefer to see Clinton further ahead. But her margin also seems remarkably durable, despite the real and deep-seated doubts about her in the electorate.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:31 AM on July 13, 2016


I can see that it's a good idea for Supremes not to get involved in politics in any way outside the court, not because of the great divisions between the pillars of the state (do politicians get involved in the judiciary? Hells yeah) but because if you get one judge mouthing off about one candidate and one about the other, you could end up with a dysfunctional court.

Rules, written or not, about the conduct of Supreme Court judges must be pragmatic, and there to preserve the court's ability to function.

(However, a court without an odd number of judges is also a dysfunctional court, and I see that is a perfectly acceptable state of affairs for the GOP.)

in this case, where RBG has - perfectly reasonable - fears for the state of the SC in the event of a Trump presidency, because she sees him as unfit to fulfil the constitutional role he has in its functioning, she's not being partisan. She's not saying 'the Republican party is unfit for the presidency'; she's saying the man is bad. It may enable future SCJs to say regrettable things, but that can't be the only decider.

Better a dangerous precedent than a dangerous president. I think she's quite right to say what she said.
posted by Devonian at 10:31 AM on July 13, 2016 [11 favorites]




I just can't get exercised over a justice metaphorically rolling her eyes at someone like Trump. It's not my perfect world but after Scalia and Thomas and Alito's behavior over the last decade I can't see how we condemn a person who is a citizen of the country for having an opinion about a presidential candidate.

Claims/worry about bias just seem overblown; we trust judges to put aside personal feelings all the time and at the Supreme Court level the work product is so detailed that you don't get the sort of off-the-cuff shittyness we've seen from things like the Brock Turner case. The most significant stuff the SC does results in detailed opinions with tons of citations. Which isn't to say you can't see stuff gamed - certainly there are gyrations to various degrees - but for the most part I just don't see "a justice had a preference about a candidate" as some sort of smoking gun.

So really this all boils down to some sort of propriety argument, because I don't think anyone is claiming she's got some huge ability to sway the electorate, are they? So meh. I see the appeal of folks at the top should keep some distance but that's also capable of being taken in an obnoxious direction itself. Isn't there some behavior so gross that it would be unreasonable for a justice to remain completely neutral?

And why is this only at the tippy-top we think this is gross? On the whole society seems to really enjoy the amount of public non-work product that Posner spits out. How high would he have to be before writing Public Intellectuals: A Study of Decline would be a problem?
posted by phearlez at 10:57 AM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]




Two panicky DNC fundraising emails this morning saying the Bernie people aren't donating to Hillary. I hope it's just crying wolf, but....
posted by dw at 11:39 AM on July 13, 2016


It's been what? 24 hours?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:40 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Also - do you expect a fundraising email to say, "Everything's cool, don't knock yourself out to donate."
posted by Chrysostom at 11:43 AM on July 13, 2016 [21 favorites]


VEEPSTAKES: Donald Trump still has not made a decision, sources tell ABC, but list is down to 2 - 3 people
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:44 AM on July 13, 2016


"Plenty of money here folks, why not give to the SPCA?"
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:45 AM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm not getting those emails, dw. I'm getting "Hey! All the Bernie supporters are totes stepping up! You should join them!"
posted by cooker girl at 11:50 AM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


I wonder if the message differs according to your contribution history (e.g. bigger donors get the more negative e-mails)?
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:56 AM on July 13, 2016


Thank you for reminding me to donate, metafilter election post!
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:58 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm still seeing things along these lines from my Sanders supporting friends. I haven't really engaged with them over the endorsement:

I will note, since this piece doesn't, that he hasn't conceded. I will wait until after the convention to sort out my story of what has happened here. But this is an important piece of the puzzle, I think.

I am resisting the urge to ask them what they see as the difference between a concession and:
Secretary Clinton has won the Democratic nominating process, and I congratulate her for that.
posted by bardophile at 11:58 AM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Charles Pierce: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Ran Out of F*cks to Give a Long Time Ago. And there are different sorts of sins in the Court.
This is one of those days on which I'm glad I was raised Catholic and, therefore, was schooled in the difference between venial and mortal sin. Because anyone who thinks that RBG's honest assessment of the vulgar talking yam is on a par with A.) Antonin Scalia's hunting trips with Dick Cheney, or B.) the majority in Bush v. Gore including one justice (Scalia) whose son got a job with the administration that poppa helped install and another (Thomas) whose wife did, too, needs to seriously examine their consciences more than they did.
posted by homunculus at 11:59 AM on July 13, 2016 [44 favorites]


Ha, I was JUST posting National Treasure Charles Pierce's article when I previewed.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:00 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think these people think that there is some magic formulae that you have to pronounce it order for it be a "real" concession. It's the same kind of thinking that leads people to think the IRS doesn't exist, because two different words are used in some legislation from 1948.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:00 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


I wonder if the message differs according to your contribution history (e.g. bigger donors get the more negative e-mails)?

At the risk of humble-bragging, I don't think so.
posted by cooker girl at 12:01 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ha, I was JUST posting National Treasure Charles Pierce's article when I previewed.

I've given up trying to match homunculus on Pierce links. The Pierce is With Them.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:04 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Josh Marshall: Trump is a Propagator of Race Hatred and Violence.

"We're used to so much nonsense and so many combustible tirades from Trump that we become partly inured to them. We also don't slow down and look at precisely what he's saying. What he's saying here is that millions of African-Americans are on the streets inspired by and protesting on behalf of a mass murderer of white cops.

This is not simply false. It is the kind of wild racist incitement that puts whole societies in danger. And this man wants to be president.
"
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:11 PM on July 13, 2016 [24 favorites]


The Constitution mathematically favors a two-party system

Does it, though? I thought that the whole deal was that it was intentionally silent on the subject, but it's admittedly been decades since my last civics class.


What people mean when they say this, presumably, is that the structure of government spelled out in the constitution functionally favors a two-party system, in practice, within a broader context in which parties existences are taken as a given. George Washington famously opposed the idea of having political parties in our system at all, and it's probably fair to consider the two-party system bias of our electoral system an unforeseen consequence of the system as established in the constitution. If you asked them, apart from the founders who like Jefferson went on to establish parties, most of the early old men of the revolution would probably have expected the whole system to be non partisan from top to bottom, with voter preferences being based on the character and histories of the individual candidates.

Washington in particular wrote forcefully about his worries that the introduction of parties and partisanship in American politics would lead us to becoming too fractious to function as a democracy. Maybe regardless of what "the founders" thought, old Georgie was onto something...
posted by saulgoodman at 12:11 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think these people think that there is some magic formulae that you have to pronounce it order for it be a "real" concession. It's the same kind of thinking that leads people to think the IRS doesn't exist, because two different words are used in some legislation from 1948.

If you look closely, you'll notice the frames of Bernie's glasses have a distinct golden tinge, indicating his endorsement only applies to elections currently taking place on ships at sea.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:15 PM on July 13, 2016 [43 favorites]


Oh saulgoodman's post reminded me of something!

One of the fascinating things about Chudnow's biography of Hamilton (yes, I read it because of the musical) was being reminded that the men who wrote the constitution largely regarded it as a flawed document - a kind of "the most likely thing we can get everyone to agree on but we'll fix it as we go" kind of thing. There's no sense of "ok, we've written this constitution and now it's set in stone." It reminded me that "strict constructionists" are basing their belief on something the vast majority of the founders would have scoffed at. It doesn't take too much reading to learn this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:19 PM on July 13, 2016 [27 favorites]


DGAF Josh Earnest commenting on DGAF RBG: "She didn’t earn the nickname the notorious RBG for nothing."
posted by zombieflanders at 12:22 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've been trying so hard not to stereotype Bernie dead-enders as young and naive but... man, so much of what is coming out of that camp just sounds so young and naive.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:22 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


the founders
The Founders?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:24 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


Meanwhile, Trump is apparently trying new strategies for fundraising.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:24 PM on July 13, 2016


Just like the thousands of Muslims celebrating in the streets on September 11, Donald Trump claims he's seen people calling for moments of silence for the Dallas shooter.
posted by peeedro at 12:25 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


the founders
The Founders?



You know, if Trump has been replaced by a changeling trying to undermine the stability of our planet, it would explain a lot.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:29 PM on July 13, 2016 [13 favorites]


For fans of mad-haired egotists in positions of power - good news! Boris is back, and you'll be seeing more of him over in your star-spangled republic, he's Foreign Secretary.
posted by Devonian at 12:30 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Two panicky DNC fundraising emails this morning saying the Bernie people aren't donating to Hillary. I hope it's just crying wolf, but....

Someone took a screenshot and tweeted it in case anyone wanted to see the email.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:41 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


The most horrifying thing about Reince Priebus is that his given name is Reinhold Richard Priebus. He chose this.

As Charlie Pierce alludes to, he chose this because it was an anagram of his true nature: I, Prince Erebus.

As the personification of darkness, born of Chaos, he is the only helmsman able to steer the GOP in this darkest of timelines.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:41 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


Someone took a screenshot and tweeted it in case anyone wanted to see the email.

That doesn't even look like the email of a professional adult.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:44 PM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


That doesn't even look like the email of a professional adult.

It's not. It's by a political aide.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:48 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh, it's the DCCC (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee)? It's not the DNC (Democratic National Committee). I'm not on the DCCC's mailing list, just the DNC, my local Democratic party chapter, HRC, and my state's chapter.

I've actually felt like the DCCC is sort of histrionic about lots of things, and I haven't appreciated their tactics in the past. I requested to be taken off their list because I prefer to work with the candidates directly or with the National committee, and whoever it was I was speaking to got pissy with me. Like, dude, you just made my point.
posted by cooker girl at 12:49 PM on July 13, 2016 [15 favorites]




On Limbaugh's show this morning he said all the Trump insiders want Pence and Trump is still leaning to Christie. Gingrich is out as VP but will be in the White House (in their hallucinations.)
posted by bukvich at 12:52 PM on July 13, 2016


I reamin pretty sure that the number one VP job qualification for Trump is toadying ability. I don't know anything about Pence because I blessedly do not live under his fiefdom, but for sure Christie is the best at toadying. Really, great at toadying. The classiest, best toady.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:58 PM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


Sad
posted by y2karl at 1:20 PM on July 13, 2016


A Propagator of Race Hatred and Violence (TPM editor's blog)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:21 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


In fact, I'd like Trump to prove that he isn't a Dominion shape-shifter sent here to spread suspicion and disorder. How do we know that the real Trump isn't imprisoned on an asteroid somewhere in the Gamma Quadrant? I want to see the blood tests.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:24 PM on July 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


Trump's Racist Appeal Becomes More Explicit Every Day
Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, foreigners of all stripes: they're all grist for Trump's crusade to convince white voters that they're surrounded by rapists, murderers, terrorists, and assorted other predators who want to take their jobs away and impoverish them. It's his whole campaign.

This is loathsome. For years it's been clear that the Republican Party could only win by turning out an ever greater share of the white vote. But by 2012 they seemed to have done everything they possibly could: Fox News stoked the xenophobia, Republican legislatures passed voter ID laws, and outreach to white evangelicals had reached saturation levels. What more did they have on their plate? Now we know the answer: nominate a guy who doesn't play around with dog whistles anymore. Instead he comes out and flatly runs as the candidate of white America, overtly attacking every minority group he can think of. That shouldn't work. In the year 2016, it should alienate at least as many white voters as it captures. But so far it seems to be doing at least moderately well.

Donald Trump has ushered in a whole new era of fact-checking in journalism
This has posed a real dilemma for those of us covering his campaign. How do you write about a speech filled with so many wild insinuations? How do you report on Trump’s baseless statements without just giving them a wider audience? What’s the responsible way to fact-check Donald Trump?

As it turns out, lots of journalists are grappling with these questions. I called up Lucas Graves, a journalism professor at the University of Wisconsin Madison and author of the forthcoming book Deciding What's True: The Rise of Political Fact-Checking in American Journalism. He argues that Trump is actually pushing journalism into a new era, emboldening newsrooms to be more aggressive in calling him out. Below is our conversation, lightly edited for length and clarity.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:27 PM on July 13, 2016 [11 favorites]


also at the DNC training we were told in Philly "jimmies" means "sprinkles" and I mean I live a few miles outside Philly and I still don't how to use "jimmies" in a sentence. Is it sprinkles like cake sprinkles? I'll be a shitty volunteer.
posted by angrycat at 1:43 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


We call them jimmies in Pittsburgh.

Would you like jimmies on your ice cream cone?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:46 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


"I'll have a chocolate-vanilla twist with jimmies."
posted by meinvt at 1:48 PM on July 13, 2016


Someone turn on the corbsiren,

NBC: Stop Trump Effort Short But in Striking Distance Ahead of Committee Meeting
An NBC News whip count of convention Rules Committee delegates finds that the Free the Delegates movement -- a grassroots group of delegates pushing a rules change to allow bound delegates to vote their "conscience" -- can count on at least 16 delegates open to the change based on delegates' public statements, backgrounds and social media profiles.

That's more than halfway to the 28 votes Trump detractors would need to produce a minority report on their proposal, which would give it a vote on the convention floor. At least four more delegates are undecided, while the positions of another 22 remain unknown and 68 have either gone on-record as opposed or their history of support for Trump suggests they would be.

The effort could get a boost from Utah Sen. Mike Lee and his wife, two delegates on the Rules Committee that both the Trump campaign and Free the Delegates operatives expect to vote in favor of the conscience clause. Lee was an early endorser and remains a good friend of Sen. Ted Cruz, and remains fiercely critical of the presumptive GOP nominee.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:52 PM on July 13, 2016


also at the DNC training we were told in Philly "jimmies" means "sprinkles"

I would like to be an Official DNC Jimmies Rustler.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:58 PM on July 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


These jimmies, they rustle?
posted by chimaera at 1:59 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


He argues that Trump is actually pushing journalism into a new era, emboldening newsrooms to be more aggressive in calling him out.

Generally, when a candidate says something provably false — and, especially, false and dangerous — then there are consequences to that candidate's campaign. Consequences are what is missing here. Callouts are clearly not doing it. By whatever magic, Trump has figured out how to sidestep the power of the Fifth Estate.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:59 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Generally, when a candidate says something provably false — and, especially, false and dangerous — then there are consequences to that candidate's campaign.

Since when?
posted by entropicamericana at 2:02 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


Marist (NBC/WSJ) now has Clinton leading by 9 in Pennsylvania. That should help balance out the poll averages, if nothing else.
posted by gimonca at 2:05 PM on July 13, 2016


Generally, when a candidate says something provably false — and, especially, false and dangerous — then there are consequences to that candidate's campaign.

It's funny, I was watching an episode of The Office and Oscar said something poignant.

"You can't blame a weirdo for bringing in weirdos. You can blame a normal for creating the situation that allowed the weirdo to bring in weirdos."

This election is basically that statement in a nutshell.
posted by Talez at 2:06 PM on July 13, 2016 [23 favorites]


Also, Snopes on Jimmies.
posted by gimonca at 2:08 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


also the volunteer trainer was talking about how delicious Philly tap water is I mean I guess it won't kill you
posted by angrycat at 2:10 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's got real texture to it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:16 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


the founders
The Founders?


Picturing the men who signed the Declaration of Independence as a bunch of weird shape shifting aliens has definitely helped me get through conversations with people who like to use that term.
posted by indubitable at 2:16 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


(And who reveres the Founders the most? The Horta!)
posted by nicepersonality at 2:25 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Since when?

Sure. Off the top of my head, in 2012 Mitt Romney got caught on Mother Jones making comments about the unwashed, poor slobs who don't vote Republican. Later he explicitly claimed those same people pay no income tax and vote for Obama. I think those comments arguably did much to end his campaign, and it was clear to everyone that there was damage done even before the general election was held. There's a more comprehensive list of his BS here. Before that, we could probably look over some of Sarah Palin's wacky performance art during the 2008 election, I guess.

I think the larger point stands that Trump says some pretty crazy stuff and, for all the supposed efforts of journalists to call it out, there haven't been any real consequences, so far. The media have made themselves toothless, either for lack of effort, or by some other magic trick on Trump's part. It's pretty scary to see, honestly.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:47 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


a lungful of dragon: "By whatever magic, Trump has figured out how to sidestep the power of the Fifth Estate."

Pedantry: the media is generally referred to as the Fourth Estate.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:48 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Founders?

Isn't that meant to be a more inclusive term than "Founding Fathers"?
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:50 PM on July 13, 2016


Pedantry: the media is generally referred to as the Fourth Estate.

You're right; apologies.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:52 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


the media is generally referred to as the Fourth Estate.

That's why they keep getting sidestepped. Trump's been playing one estate over.
posted by chimaera at 2:52 PM on July 13, 2016 [14 favorites]


> "Marist (NBC/WSJ) now has Clinton leading by 9 in Pennsylvania."

Unfortunately, that still terrifies me. This year, the Republicans are somehow about to nominate a wholly inexperienced, racist-claptrap-spewing, Obama-was-born-in-Kenya actual crazy person conspiracy theorist who wants to introduce a religious litmus test for entry into the U.S. and blatantly hire his own companies to build a useless giant wall on the southern border. How is the difference anything less than, I don't know, forty percentage points? How is this even close to being a contest? Seriously, what is WRONG with people?
posted by kyrademon at 2:55 PM on July 13, 2016 [44 favorites]


If Trump starts calling for execution of refractory priests and the promulgation of the Cult of Reason, we'll know the jig is up.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:55 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


Sprinklies in the UK are called hundreds and thousands. JImmies don't exist, except in Glaswegian cant as a generic name placeholder - jammies are pyjamas, but I think that's true in the US too. Pyjamas are also called pidgies in the UK. Annie Sprinkle will be 62 ten days from now, but to the best of my knowledge will not be attending the RNC, nor is she highly placed in the Veepstakes.
posted by Devonian at 2:59 PM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


That feeling of disappointment when you think you're getting called by a real polling firm but really it's just a Republican push poll. *kicks dirt*

(The poll was amazingly brazen and I answered all the "wrong" ways just to fuck with them. Because fuck Pat Toomey, seriously.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:12 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


McGinty is up by 3 points, says her fundraising email today.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:15 PM on July 13, 2016


How is the difference anything less than, I don't know, forty percentage points? How is this even close to being a contest? Seriously, what is WRONG with people?

Sometimes I doubt the polling. I mean, there are a lot of interested parties who need the horse race to be close. It feels like a plausible story.

But other times, I think that the polling organizations would want to protect their integrity. Who would bother looking at polls if they aren't objective?

I just don't get it either. How can this moldy circus peanut even have any significant support?
posted by yesster at 3:36 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump has 40%+ support because the other candidate:

1. has a (D) by her name
2. does not have a penis
posted by stolyarova at 3:43 PM on July 13, 2016 [20 favorites]


Oh, and

3. has been their team's Big Bad for 25+ years
posted by stolyarova at 3:44 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


it's almost like metafilter is out of touch with the rest of the country.
posted by entropicamericana at 3:44 PM on July 13, 2016 [23 favorites]


Some people really actually want an authoritarian, as long as that authoritarian won't really presume to tell them what to do, just everyone else. Long before Trump I do recall telling several people that I was pretty sure America is full of unwitting crypto-fascists.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:45 PM on July 13, 2016 [18 favorites]


How can this moldy circus peanut even have any significant support?

Brexit happened, to the same sense of incredulity. People who think they've been shafted - in many cases, correctly - will take the 'fuck you' option with great pleasure, even if it's a con job on wheels.
posted by Devonian at 3:46 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


How is this even close to being a contest? Seriously, what is WRONG with people?

Well, if America's still as deeply sexist as we all know it is, maybe that's got something to do with it. Let's hope scolding people for being sexist takes a backseat to explaining why (other than to demonstrate that we aren't a sexist nation--that approach might get my support but it's not going to appeal across the board) people should come out to vote for her among her supporters. Obama knew what he was doing when he discouraged making his campaign about race. I know Clinton gets the politics in play, but I'm not so sure her supporters will stay on message enough to avoid creating a sexist backlash. It scares the hell out of me the polls here in Florida are suddenly pulling a W--big swing toward Trump in the latest Quinnipiac poll, right around the same time the polls turned for W in the cycle, way back in the old days.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:55 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


They are appalled that, given the ‘well-qualified and diverse field of candidates’,

Well qualified?
Diverse?
I'd say they're appalled that the type of persons that form a large part of their base, and that's the type they've been overwhelmingly hedging for, for many years, might get into power. Other than the way he presents himself and his open ignorance, I don't see much difference between Trump and the other Republican candidates. Insane, hateful, ignornant fucks the lot of them.

I understand that Clinton is basically status quo with sugar on top but she's no where near the nonsense that Republicans and Libertarians are.
posted by juiceCake at 3:56 PM on July 13, 2016


We've talked about this many, many times now. It is in large part because Trump says a lot of things and people hear what they want to hear and disregard the stuff they don't agree with. So for example, Trump says he will "Put America First!" which something you will never hear from Clinton. For some people that is a very important sentiment because they feel that somehow they have been shafted, that just by living in "the greatest Country in the world" they should be leading better lives, therefore someone else is to blame. So all of the other stuff that Trump has said is less important than his acknowledgement that they are not living like princelings and America is not Great for the average American at this moment in time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:56 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


Last night my husband and I were running through a park in our (suburban) neighborhood. There was a mixed-race elderly couple walking their two big dogs, a Hispanic father with his two daughters (around 5 and 8) flying a toy drone, and us. It was a beautiful moment, and it struck me as exactly the sort of experience that Trump insists only existed in the 50s or 60s but never really existed at all until now.
posted by stolyarova at 4:00 PM on July 13, 2016 [25 favorites]




2. does not have a penis

Reminder that woman ≠ lack of penis.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:25 PM on July 13, 2016 [19 favorites]


well I mean they probably wouldn't vote for a trans man either
posted by ryanrs at 4:48 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


p sure they'd try to pass a law forbidding him to run if any hypothetical trans man tried.
posted by poffin boffin at 5:04 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oooooooooooooh
Well, I’ll be damned
Well, I’ll be damned
Hamilton’s on your side
Well, I’ll be damned
Well, I’ll be damned
And?
You won in a landslide

posted by you're a kitty! at 5:07 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


I just got my first welcome email from the RNC, and let me tell you, it is grade A special. Apparently among the prohibited items are whole fruit, unopened envelopes, selfie sticks, and signs. And never let them pass up an opportunity to milk people they think are suckers:
Yes, located within the security perimeter is the first-ever Freedom Marketplace. The Marketplace will be a shopping opportunity showcasing 24 vendors selling merchandise ranging from political memorabilia to GOP themed gifts, souvenirs, jewelry, gift items, and more. Federal Express will be on site to provide shipping services for all Marketplace purchases, including large items and items that aren't permitted inside The Q.
posted by corb at 5:10 PM on July 13, 2016 [34 favorites]


Federal Express will be on site to provide shipping services...

That shipping company has been known as FedEx since 2000. RNC - stuck in the 90s.
posted by zakur at 5:15 PM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


among the prohibited items are whole fruit

does it say anything about eggs?
posted by ryanrs at 5:20 PM on July 13, 2016 [17 favorites]


That doesn't even look like the email of a professional adult.

It's not-- it's from the D-trip.
posted by dersins at 5:22 PM on July 13, 2016


So no swashbuckling duels with selfie sticks then?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:23 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Federal Express will be on site to provide shipping services, their riders can get your packages to the West Coast in under 2 weeks.
posted by bongo_x at 5:26 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


Does it ban light sabres?

You know where I'm going with this.
posted by Devonian at 5:27 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


yeah the DNC has the ban on selfie sticks too
what's up with that?
posted by angrycat at 5:35 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Weaponized narcissism?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:37 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


Long before Trump I do recall telling several people that I was pretty sure America is full of unwitting crypto-fascists.

America: We get restless if we go a decade without invading another country.

America: Real-life is exactly like 24, right?

America: You're either with us or against us.

Etc.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:37 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Maybe they're worried people will use them to go 21st century Preston Brooks.
posted by stolyarova at 5:38 PM on July 13, 2016


Freedom Marketplace

George Orwell is spinning like a drill bit in his grave right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:39 PM on July 13, 2016 [17 favorites]


Well, Freedom can't be free.
posted by peeedro at 5:40 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


yeah the DNC has the ban on selfie sticks too
what's up with that?


They are problematic in crowded spaces.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:41 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


All the things you can't have in the RNC Event Zone

Some favorites:

(3) Any air rifle, air pistol, paintball gun, blasting caps, switchblade
or automatic knife, knife having a blade two and one-half (2-1/2) inches in
length or longer, cestus, billy, blackjack, sword, saber, hatchet, axe, slingshot,
BB gun, pellet gun, wrist shot, blackjack, metal knuckles, nun chucks, mace,
iron buckle, axe handle, shovel, or other instrumentality used to cause
property or personal damage;

[They really don't like blackjacks. And cestus? Are they expecting Roman gladiators?]

(9) Containers of bodily fluids;
(14) Rope, chain, cable, strapping, wire, string, line, tape, or any
similar material, in lengths greater than 6’;

[Someone should try to open carry a 5'11" length of chain.]

(24) Grappling hooks, sledgehammers, hammers, and crowbars;
(25) Canned goods;
(26) Tennis balls;
posted by zakur at 5:42 PM on July 13, 2016 [23 favorites]


Now I want to know what the most creative thing is we could do with (24) and (26).
posted by puddledork at 5:43 PM on July 13, 2016


I want to believe this is one of those lists formed by actual experience.
posted by dumbland at 5:45 PM on July 13, 2016 [22 favorites]


Cestus is oddly specific. I'm wondering if autocorrect is to blame, but I'm not sure what they would have been aiming for. Cactus?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


(1) Lumber larger than 2” in width and ¼” thick, including supports for signs;

No length restriction?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:47 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


Monk chucks are cool though.
posted by dersins at 5:49 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


It's okay if I bring my bec-de-corbin, though, right?
posted by aubilenon at 5:52 PM on July 13, 2016 [20 favorites]


Probably comes under the "other instrumentality" category.
posted by dersins at 5:53 PM on July 13, 2016


(9) Containers of bodily fluids;

so breast milk pumping parents just have to stay home i guess?
posted by poffin boffin at 5:53 PM on July 13, 2016 [14 favorites]


LETTUCE ON A CESTUS
posted by stolyarova at 5:54 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


poffin, you really think they're going to let icky GIRLS into the convention? They might get cooties!
posted by stolyarova at 5:55 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Feeling a D&D campaign coming on.
posted by joeyh at 5:56 PM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


It's okay if I bring my bec-de-corbin, though, right?

I'd love to get a group together with various weapons and try to talk our way through. "No, no. It's a gladius, obviously. Not on the list."
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:58 PM on July 13, 2016 [14 favorites]


There are some people who, confronted with a sign reading "Patrons Are Requested Not To Pee On The Floor" will start thinking up novel ways to pee on the ceiling.

Welcome, my tribe.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:58 PM on July 13, 2016 [25 favorites]


No length restriction?

When your lumber is limited to 2" in width and a quarter inch thick the length would be self limiting by the laws of physics unless you go hunting for a piece of Australian ironwood.
posted by Talez at 6:01 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Feeling a D&D campaign coming on.

You'd have to cut up your 50 feet of rope into at least 9 pieces, but I see no prohibitions on iron spikes or flasks of oil.

Or horses, war.
posted by dersins at 6:01 PM on July 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


Cestus is oddly specific.

I'm thinking the concern wasn't so much with its utility as a weapon, but because it looks like it might be kinky.

I'd love to get a group together with various weapons and try to talk our way through. "No, no. It's a gladius, obviously. Not on the list."

You'll pry my halberd from my cold, dead hands!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:02 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


When halberds are outlawed..
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:04 PM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


You'll pry my halberd from my cold, dead hands!

You could make the argument that it's ceremonial since they were made obsolete by the arquebus.
posted by Talez at 6:05 PM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Cestus" might be referring to gloves like these (which are marketed to cops and wannabes.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:12 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


9+14 could cause some chaos (fill once inside the security perimeter)
posted by ryanrs at 6:13 PM on July 13, 2016


Cestus is oddly specific.

Maybe it's the RNC Convention version of Brown M&Ms?
posted by nathan_teske at 6:14 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


14 is a big problem. Everyone can carry 5'11" of rope or chain and just combine them together once they're inside.
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


iron buckle

Like belt? Or buckler? In either case I'd prefer steel.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:19 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's like RNC version of the Anchorman rumble.

"Where the heck did you get that grenade, Christie?"
posted by FJT at 6:19 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Catching up on this thread via Recent Activity and I'm all like WTF happened while I was gone.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:20 PM on July 13, 2016 [13 favorites]




Hold on to your butts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:23 PM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


its_happening.gif
posted by tonycpsu at 6:23 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Today is exactly six months since this video was made, it feels so much longer ago than that.
posted by peeedro at 6:27 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


ChurchHatesTucker, an Iron Buckle can be used to craft a Dusky Belt which gives +8 agility and +8 stamina and could be used by the NeverTrump faction to evade spells cast by the Rules Committee.
posted by ryanrs at 6:27 PM on July 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


Yas, Queen.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:28 PM on July 13, 2016


(subtitle: Here's to getting fucked.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:30 PM on July 13, 2016


Do we need to dust off Defence Scheme No. 1?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:34 PM on July 13, 2016


Do we need to dust off Defence Scheme No. 1?

My best chance for residency in Canada is a new Fenian Raid, so maybe.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:40 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hold on to your butts.

If we're very lucky, Trump will be eaten by velociraptors.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:40 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


(26) Tennis balls

So... They're not going to immanentize the eschaton?
posted by one_bean at 6:41 PM on July 13, 2016 [17 favorites]


But my cestus is the bestus!
posted by kirkaracha at 6:42 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THIS ELECTION IS GETTING DUMBER
posted by murphy slaw at 6:43 PM on July 13, 2016 [29 favorites]


Squash and racquetballs are A-OK!
posted by Chrysostom at 6:45 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Hmm. You know what really should be on that list but isn't? Overripe tomatoes.
posted by aubilenon at 6:46 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hold on to your butts.
3. butt bət/ noun
plural noun: butts
1. the thicker end, especially of a tool or a weapon.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:48 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


among the prohibited items are whole fruit

What about pies? I'd feel a lot better if this whole thing ended with a pie fight.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:48 PM on July 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


When your lumber is limited to 2" in width and a quarter inch thick

There is no limit on my lumber, OK? My lumber is normal. Slightly large, actually. I guarantee you there is no problem. I guarantee.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:49 PM on July 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


Oh, goodness, this is going way back, but if anybody needs some lumber, George W. can help you with that.
posted by stolyarova at 6:53 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]




Meanwhile

Pennsylvania white voters:
Trump, 40%
Clinton, 40%


Ugh, be better, white Pennsylvanians. I am so ashamed.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:57 PM on July 13, 2016 [21 favorites]


New Poll Projects Trump to Win a Robust Zero Percent of Ohio, Pennsylvania Black Vote

But he's got a great relationship with the blacks.

He's always had a great relationship with the blacks.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:59 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


(9) Containers of bodily fluids;

so breast milk pumping parents just have to stay home i guess?


Or anyone with a colostomy bag. Or, by the letter, since it says "containers", pretty much anything used for incontinence is also banned.
posted by anastasiav at 7:02 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


You know, there's a very real sense in which we are all containers for bodily fluids.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:04 PM on July 13, 2016 [55 favorites]


Can I bring bear-chucks?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:08 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


so breast milk pumping parents just have to stay home i guess?

(A) If you're pumping you're probably trying to work and you call yourself a Republican? Your strong husband should be supporting you. You should be home so the baby can latch on any time he or she wants.

(2) Barefoot and presumably pregnant with the next one.
posted by fedward at 7:11 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]




nun chucks

How about monk Chucks?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:23 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


From PEC:
Yesterday the electoral vote estimator and the Presidential Meta-Margin finally moved – sharply, by 0.8% toward Donald Trump. This was caused by a string of four Florida polls favorable to him: two partisan pollsters plus Gravis and Quinnipiac. If this shift is real, it looks like it happened within a few days of June 25th. What would be the cause of that? Waiting to see whether it’s lasting.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:45 PM on July 13, 2016


14 is a big problem. Everyone can carry 5'11" of rope or chain and just combine them together once they're inside.

Didn't we have a big discussion in one of the earlier threads on use of chain in a bar fight? I'm surprised they let in lengths of chain under 6'; that can still amount to a pretty serious melee weapon if it's heavy enough.
posted by indubitable at 7:50 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


You know, there's a very real sense in which we are all containers for bodily fluids.

Mandrake!
posted by a lungful of dragon at 7:52 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


He's always had a great relationship with the blacks.

Well, I guess his one African American doesn't live in either of those states. Too bad!
posted by TwoStride at 8:06 PM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


You know, there's a very real sense in which we are all containers for bodily fluids.

Surely the presumptive GOP nominee is the biggest container of them all.
posted by zachlipton at 8:07 PM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


I would have guessed he was a sack of bodily solids.
posted by chimaera at 8:14 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Meanwhile, local socialist firebrand Kshama Sawant is Not With Her.
"Our movement cannot follow Bernie into the corporate-controlled Democratic Party or support a presidential candidate backed to the hilt by the same billionaire class we need to fight," Sawant wrote in an email. "Socialist Alternative and I are calling on Sanders supporters to continue the political revolution by backing Green Party Presidential candidate Jill Stein and joining our efforts to build a new party for the 99%."
While I can understand the desire to perhaps attempt to take a swing at getting a viable left party, the not-especially-competent Greens have ballot access in less than 50% of states, and Jill "I was for Brexit before I was against it" Stein is a less than inspiring leader. Why not just write-in Bernie instead?

Also [NADER RANT DELETED]
posted by Existential Dread at 8:14 PM on July 13, 2016 [17 favorites]


It's cerebrospinal fluid isn't it. Trump is full of cerebrospinal fluid?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:16 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


...but I see no prohibitions on iron spikes or flasks of oil.

Sorry, my friend:

(2) Metal, plastic, or other hard material larger than ¾” thick and
1/8” in wall thickness including pipe and tubing;

(15) Glass bottles, ornaments, light bulbs, ceramic vessels, and any
other frangible container, regardless of whether the container holds any
substance;
posted by zakur at 8:20 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump is full of something liquid or solid? I've always considered him American Capitalism's MOST Empty Suit, inflated daily with the most noxious of hot air. Full O' Fart.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:29 PM on July 13, 2016


While I can understand the desire to perhaps attempt to take a swing at getting a viable left party, the not-especially-competent Greens have ballot access in less than 50% of states, and Jill "I was for Brexit before I was against it" Stein is a less than inspiring leader. Why not just write-in Bernie instead?

Because god forbid you waste your vote on something like a write-in. /s
posted by Talez at 8:30 PM on July 13, 2016


I was ready to lodge a protest vote (I'm in Massachusetts, we're not voting for Trump) for Stein, but actually following her on Twitter for a few days cured me of that pretty quick.

At this point, I really think the proper place of a left-wing third party in American electoral politics is to shoot for getting enough seats in Congress to apply leverage on the Democrats and be a bulwark against Blue Doggery. While I understand the campaign fundraising argument for seeking votes in the presidential race, it just seems like a waste of time, not to mention dangerous considering the calibre of candidate the GOP is dead set on putting up every four years.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:31 PM on July 13, 2016 [15 favorites]


At this point, I really think the proper place of a left-wing third party in American electoral politics is to shoot for getting enough seats in Congress to apply leverage on the Democrats and be a bulwark against Blue Doggery.

Blue Dogs have been successfully put down since 2010. Most of the left-wing just bitch about third way moderates these days. Incremental improvements in the general welfare are bad for socialist business.
posted by Talez at 8:37 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


The article posted by zombieflanders leads me to suggest that when we are talking about the Cleveland convention instead of a "dumpster fire" we call it a "Cuyahoga fire."
posted by edheil at 9:23 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tim Tebow, known for starting in 16 professional football games, will speak at GOP convention. Also, Benghazi:
Night 1: A Benghazi focus, followed by border patrol agents and Mr. Shaw, whose son was killed by an undocumented immigrant. Senator Cotton, Mr. Giuliani, Melania Trump, Ms. Ernst and others.

Night 2: A focus on the economy: Mr. White, president of the U.F.C.; Asa Hutchinson, the governor of Arkansas; Michael Mukasey, the former United States attorney general; Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, a vice-presidential possibility; Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader; Tiffany Trump; Donald Trump Jr. and Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin.

Night 3: Ms. Bondi; Ms. Collins; Newt Gingrich, a former House speaker; Senator Ted Cruz of Texas; Eric Trump; Ms. Gulbis; and the nominee for vice president.

Night 4: Mr. Tebow; Representative Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee; Gov. Mary Fallin of Oklahoma; Reince Priebus, the Republican National Committee chairman; Gov. Rick Scott of Florida; Peter Thiel; Mr. Barrack; Ivanka Trump; Donald J. Trump.
NYT: Speakers at Donald Trump’s Convention: An Astronaut, a Quarterback, but No Sarah Palin
posted by fitnr at 9:43 PM on July 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


I just go with "Trumpster Fire".
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:47 PM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


Which family member did Trump kidnap to get Mitch "Turtle Man" McConnell to show?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:51 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


April, best guess.
posted by stolyarova at 9:52 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


A presentation detailing former President Bill Clinton’s sexual misconduct.

I guess you have to admire the chutzpah?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:08 PM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ex-Staffer Alleges Trump Misused Funds, Set Up Fake Company
Sam Nunberg, in a legal answer to a $10 million lawsuit claiming Nunberg violated a confidentiality agreement, said
Trump may have illegally funneled corporate money into the campaign, and created a fictitious company that was listed as a plaintiff in the lawsuit.
posted by chrchr at 10:17 PM on July 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


Oh god, delegates don't have to sit through all of that nonsense, do they? Wow.

I don't know how anyone could even hate-watch all this. It's like four straight nights of Vogon poetry.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:30 PM on July 13, 2016 [45 favorites]


A whole evening dedicated to Benghazi? Not foreign policy, not the risk of global terrorism, but Benghazi?
I didn't think it was possible, but this is even worse than I imagined.

scaryblackdeath: It's like four straight nights of Vogon poetry.
That is the perfect description, and from now on I'll be thinking of the RNC as the Vogon Poetry Slam.
posted by Superplin at 10:38 PM on July 13, 2016 [16 favorites]


Also, SIX different Trumps; a Trump per night plus two spares.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:52 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


That's... that's the worst.

So the VP is either Christie or Pence.
posted by Justinian at 10:52 PM on July 13, 2016


Newt Gingrich, a former House speaker

I just think of Newt as the former Republican House speaker who faced 84 ethics charges, resigned in disgrace, and left his hospital bedridden cancer-stricken wife for a mistress and not as the former Republican House speaker who was a child molester.
posted by Justinian at 10:58 PM on July 13, 2016 [60 favorites]


I just realized that there is a third former Republican House Speaker, John Boehner. He is a decent guy with whom I disagree on almost everything. So I guess one out of three.... actually that's pretty goddamn terrible.
posted by Justinian at 11:06 PM on July 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ah jeez, Eileen Collins. I know many NASA people have traditionally skewed conservative, but just no.

Oh god, delegates don't have to sit through all of that nonsense, do they?

It's why no guns allowed. People would turn them on themselves by Night 3.
posted by NorthernLite at 11:14 PM on July 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


I guess they've decided that Benghazi is the meatiest red meat that ever meated.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:54 PM on July 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Also, speaker Turtlehead has to speak because blocking a democrat from replacing Scalia has been his entire raison d'etre this year. That is surely what he'll be focusing on.

Overall, this looks like a mean-spirited, awful convention for a mean-spirited, awful candidate. To whit, it's a perfect match of dreadful form and content.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:34 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Brexit happened, to the same sense of incredulity. People who think they've been shafted - in many cases, correctly - will take the 'fuck you' option with great pleasure.

And the people these folks end up fucking hardest of all are themselves.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:21 AM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Hmm. You know what really should be on that list but isn't? Overripe tomatoes.

I was going to point out that technically they would fall under the 'whole fruit' category, but then I remembered that this is the Republican convention and the FDA declared ketchup a vegetable in the Reagan era, so carry on.
posted by bardophile at 3:34 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


1. the thicker end, especially of a tool or a weapon.

"Hold on to your thicker end!"

hmm
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:39 AM on July 14, 2016


Donald Trump’s Friends
The unnamed Mexicans, Muslims, Israelis, farmers, doctors, and truckers who have shaped the candidate’s policies.

posted by Joe in Australia at 3:56 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Sanders gears up for the revolution's next stage
Now that he's endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, Bernie Sanders is gearing up to launch a set of liberal organizations aimed at continuing his push for a "political revolution."

One of the groups will be focused on crafting policy while another one will be devoted to recruiting and boosting liberal candidates to run for office, according to a source with knowledge of the plans. Potentially, a third organization would be some kind of political action committee focused on registering new voters.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 4:01 AM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Benghazi and Bill's penis. I'm glad they are so focused on such trivial shit--fixating on the past instead of inspiring with visions of the future is a sign of weakness and immanent death. Forget about nun-chucks they are strangling themselves on their own bile.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:14 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I love that Trump talked up getting a bunch of successful sports stars to speak at the convention but ended up with Tim Tebow.
posted by octothorpe at 4:22 AM on July 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Oh that Friends of Donald article is hilarious. Trump comes across like that kid in school who lied constantly about all of his mysterious friends that no one had ever met.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Float Tom Brady, land Tim Tebow.

I can see how that USFL thing didn't work out.
posted by box at 4:33 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Can anyone with campaigning knowledge tell me the most effective form of actually getting voters to polls on election day? I suck at canvassing people who might want to, like, debate me (though this is Pittsburgh so I'm not sure how many Trump supporters I'd actually encounter), I just want to make sure that every Hillary voter who can vote does vote. Especially low income and minority voters. I am planning on volunteering to drive people on election day. Is there anything else I should march into Democrat HQ and volunteerr to do?
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:40 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


NYT/CBS poll just released; I hope this is a joke.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:43 AM on July 14, 2016


The latter would be my guess, tho I can't rule out both. Anyway, I'm inclined to agree that the number of people who truly believe something like this is pretty small and aren't likely to have ever accepted anything short of a Bernie Sanders dictatorship in the first place.

So many of my friends do, which I know all about thanks to Facebook. So many...

I don't think it's a majority of Sanders voters. I think I have a lot of liberal-left friends, and I'm kind of a freak magnet. And a lot of musicians and artists. It's not the Algonquin Round Table.

Seeing people with dancing bears on tie dye in their profile picture who are Trump supporters is fucking depressing, though.
posted by krinklyfig at 4:45 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


It has been a long, strange trip.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:46 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump may have illegally funneled corporate money into the campaign, and created a fictitious company that was listed as a plaintiff in the lawsuit.

Gingrich has been tolerated as an obvious grifter by the GOP for a while. Makes him a kindred spirit and a natural VP pick.

I don't think Newt has any respect for Trump. He's already called him out publicly. This won't stop Trump from picking him as a running mate, and hopelessly try to curry his favor.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:01 AM on July 14, 2016


Now that he's endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, Bernie Sanders is gearing up to launch a set of liberal organizations aimed at continuing his push for a "political revolution."

I hope somebody from Metafilter will tell Bernie there's a big difference between "liberal" and "left."
posted by one_bean at 5:17 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Now that he's endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, Bernie Sanders is gearing up to launch a set of liberal organizations aimed at continuing his push for a "political revolution."

This is good, exactly the kind of thing I want to see from him going forward.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:45 AM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Fortunately, I'll be attending a local film festival nearly every night next week, so I won't be tempted even to hate-watch the Republican convention. Which, from experience, would give me momentary satisfaction but leave me feeling all slimy afterwards.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:10 AM on July 14, 2016


Tim Tebow's speaking at this thing? I thought he was still voyaging across Canada with the Argonauts.
posted by rorgy at 6:12 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


From the link roomthreeseventeen posted:
Mrs. Clinton’s six-percentage-point lead over the presumptive Republican nominee, Donald J. Trump, in a CBS News poll last month has evaporated. The two candidates are now tied in a general election matchup, the new poll indicates, with each receiving the support of 40 percent of voters.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:18 AM on July 14, 2016


> I hope somebody from Metafilter will tell Bernie there's a big difference between "liberal" and "left."

I think Sanders is very well acquainted with various flavors of liberalism, progressivism, social democracy, and leftism, and knows where the policies he favors fall on that spectrum. The bit you quoted is from the Politico writer Daniel Strauss. Sanders himself consistently used the term "progressive". Sanders supports social democratic policies, and in the US, these have historically been referred to as progressive policies. That the Politico writer understands "progressive" as synonym of "liberal" doesn't mean Sanders doesn't know the difference.
posted by nangar at 6:19 AM on July 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


But what about the electoral college? It's not a national popular vote!
posted by rikschell at 6:19 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


The people who wrote this ridiculous piece for CNN should have their J degrees taken away. And their Harlequin Romance novel collections pulped. Trump's VP drama headed for climax
America's ultimate showman, Donald Trump, has turned his search for a Republican vice presidential pick into a real-life political thriller.

He spent Wednesday beguiling the media and playing on the hopes of his final few candidates to build tension, drama and -- perhaps -- a climactic final plot twist.

Trump is on the cusp of making the most important decision yet in his short but explosive political career. He said late Wednesday that he will announce who will join him on the GOP ticket at 11 a.m. on Friday.

But despite his image as confident boardroom manager who delighted in decisively telling unfortunate saps "You're Fired," Trump has seemingly found the real-life quest for a political partner a little more difficult.

Indeed, he seems to be caught in a classic tug of love, between his heart — apparently yearning for a combative wingman like New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie — and his head, which may lean toward the more conventional political selection of someone like Indiana Gov. Mike Pence.

posted by zarq at 6:22 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


A presentation detailing former President Bill Clinton’s sexual misconduct.

They've already prohibited whole fruits from the convention, so how detailed can this presentation be?

Seeing people with dancing bears on tie dye in their profile picture who are Trump supporters is fucking depressing, though

Honestly, I think I've known more Republican Deadheads than liberal ones. "Deadhead sticker on a cadillac" really is a thing. More than that, tho, there's a kind of naive anti-authoritarianism that seems congenial to certain kind of artsy/freak scene. Four years ago, I'll bet a lot of these dancing-bear people were googling the hell out of Ron Paul.

I found this paragraph remarkable:
"The celebrities planning to be in Cleveland next week include Caitlyn Jenner, a former Olympian, reality television star and transgender advocate, and musical acts Kid Rock, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rascal Flatts and Big & Rich."
and the following paragraph almost as remarkable:
"The Democrats traditionally draw more A-list celebrities, and this year will be no different. Among the actors and recording artists planning to attend are Lady Gaga, Snoop Dogg, Fergie, Lenny Kravitz, Idina Menzel and Bryan Cranston."
(That one because none of those people exactly scream "A-list" celeb to me.)
posted by octobersurprise at 6:23 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Nate Silver on when to panic about polls, based on the latest figures. (tl;dr - don't dismiss them, but don't think it's the end times).
posted by Devonian at 6:28 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh my god, his VP pick is going to be Sarah Palin, isn't it?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:29 AM on July 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


But what about the electoral college? It's not a national popular vote!

The electoral college forecast is better (though still worse than it was a week ago).
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:38 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Honestly, I think I've known more Republican Deadheads than liberal ones.

John Barlow, a sometimes member of the band, was and may still be a Republican and actually worked for Dick Cheney back in the seventies.
posted by octothorpe at 6:44 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Nate Silver on when to panic about polls, based on the latest figures.

That's a really interesting post about the inner workings of how they weight / prioritize poll results. Thanks for posting it.
posted by zarq at 6:50 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Obama-Romney were in a similar polling position around this time in 2012 so I'm not ready to declare a falling sky quite yet.
posted by Tevin at 6:52 AM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also speaking will be Sen. Tex Cruz, Eileen Collins, a pioneering woman astronaut, and Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was thrust into the national spotlight following the Orlando terror attacks. Screenshot in case they correct it.
posted by zarq at 6:55 AM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


HORSERACE
posted by beerperson at 6:59 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Cruz took to the podium, his disdain palatable and in such abundance to provide sustenance for the entire convention space."
posted by Tevin at 7:01 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Eileen Collins, a pioneering woman astronaut

Would've thought Lisa Nowak was a dead cert.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:02 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi? Wasn't she one of the state officials Trump bribedgave a campaign contribution to before stopping an investigation into Trump U.? Yep. CNN doesn't remember its own investigative reporting?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:03 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


Rules Committee is being shown on C-Span 3 today, FYI.
posted by corb at 7:03 AM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Lady Gaga seems pretty A-list to me ...
posted by kyrademon at 7:03 AM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Nate Silver's article in 538 that Devonian linked to, When to freak out about shocking new polls, is worth reading in full. A couple quotes:
...a 600-person poll has a margin of error of plus-or-minus 4 percentage points. But that number pertains to one candidate’s vote share only. The margin of error for the difference separating the candidates is roughly twice that, or almost 8 percentage points. That means in a state where Clinton is really up by 5 percentage points, about 1 in every 40 polls will show her up by 13 percentage points (!) or more. And about 1 in every 40 polls will show Trump ahead by 3 points or more.

... you should trust a pollster more if it’s willing to publish the occasional “outlier.” Clinton probably isn’t winning Colorado by 13 percentage points right now or losing Pennsylvania by 6 points. But the fact that Monmouth and Quinnipiac are willing to publish such results are a sign that they’re letting their data speak for itself. In the long run, that’s what leads to more accurate polling.
posted by nangar at 7:05 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Remember: When @realDonaldTrump opens his mouth, our kids are listening.

As a parent, I find this commercial extremely moving and scary!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:06 AM on July 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Given the vast failure of polls to predict recent electoral results in a variety of settings recently, I would IGNORE them.

Given the amazing amount of resistance to vote for Hillary based on her perception by a vast swathe of the electorate - this perception has been repeated across multiple interviews with thousands of voters over many years - probably the best thing you can do is to you want to do something productive with your time, rather than obsessing over +/- 5 points in meaningless polls is to volunteer for get-out the vote campaigns and drive-a-voter-to-the-polls in swing states nearest you.

The clinton campaign is going to need to convince these people (not the metafilter echochamber) to hold their noses, get off their asses and vote - and get voters to the polls who normally couldn't get there because of structural issues

If you want that to happen, put your body where your mouth is.
posted by lalochezia at 7:08 AM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I just moved to Ohio and had always intended to sign up to volunteer - and I finally just did. Hopefully I can do my part.
posted by Tevin at 7:20 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


I don't know how true this is but it made me laugh: Michele Bachmann Says Jews Will Be Free To Say ‘Merry Christmas’ When Donald Trump Is President
[Michele] Bachmann shared an anecdote she said came from a meeting with the reality-TV-star-turned-GOP-presidential-candidate.

“He even said, ‘I don’t understand, when I was growing up, everybody said Merry Christmas. Even my Jews would say Merry Christmas,’” she explained. “’New York City, there are a lot of Jews, and they would even say Merry Christmas. Why can’t we even say Merry Christmas anymore?’”
My Jews? I'm assuming he means his tenants but what do I know. Maybe he means the Jewish people on his payroll who felt they had to kowtow to their boss. Or maybe by "my" he just means any Jewish person he happened to meet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:27 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


If people think Sanders would fold under pressure and go against his own principles, then why the hell did they think he would be a good president in the first place
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:28 AM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy: Oh that Friends of Donald article is hilarious. Trump comes across like that kid in school who lied constantly about all of his mysterious friends that no one had ever met.


BUFFY: Harmony. A vampire? She must be dying without a reflection.
WILLOW: She just made me so mad. ''My boyfriends gonna beat you up.'
BUFFY: 'My boyfriend.'
WILLOW: Well, if you believe her. She always lied about stuff like that. 'Oh, he goes to another school. You wouldn't know him.'
(Season 4, episode 3, "The Harsh Light of Day")
posted by Superplin at 7:28 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Remember: When @realDonaldTrump opens his mouth, our kids are listening.

As a parent, I find this commercial extremely moving and scary!


It's heartbreaking. My Girl Scout troop is made up of 1st and 2nd gen kids of Mexican immigrants, and anyone who thinks these children are not watching and not hearing and not completely aware that the man on tv (and by extension possibly half the country) hates them, yes them, is fooling himself. I know their parents are trying their best to shield them from the blatant hate, but he's running for President and the media is just inescapable.

Last month I was carpooling a couple of the girls back from a field trip, so I was listening on as the girls were chattering with each other. We passed a campaign sign or something that made one of the girls, barely nine years old mind you, blurt this out:
"I feel it like a fire inside my belly. If Trump wins, I'll kill him myself."

I whipped my head around and just stared at her and her fists clenched in little balls of fury (not disappointed, just surprised, she is the sweetest, most thoughtful and empathetic, caring kid I think I've ever met) and she very matter of factly said,

Sorry, that's just how I feel. I need to express myself."
Yes, the kids are listening.
posted by phunniemee at 7:31 AM on July 14, 2016 [52 favorites]


Superplin, yeah that's pretty much every lonely guy or girl in school who had a "Canadian" boyfriend/girlfriend.

Keeping it light: The A.V. Club interviews the Daily Show Correspondents on how they will be covering the two National Conventions.
As anyone who read our Trevor Noah interview yesterday knows, The Daily Show is sending its entire show to cover both the Democratic and Republican National Conventions. The cameramen are going. The writers are going. The interns are going. And, yes, the correspondents are going.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:33 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Ginsburg apologizes! Trump probably hates that, it would be easier to be a victim of her mean, mean, meanness forever.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:33 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump comes across like that kid in school who lied constantly about all of his mysterious friends that no one had ever met.

TVTropes: My Girlfriend in Canada
posted by Chrysostom at 7:35 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump is announcing his V.P. Pick tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. in New York City, in case anybody is interested.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:37 AM on July 14, 2016




Trump is announcing his V.P. Pick tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. in New York City, in case anybody is interested.

Word is that this guy was on Trump's shortlist but he declined candidacy, stating he was uncomfortable being seen publicly as the running mate for human garbage.
posted by phunniemee at 7:43 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Obama-Romney were in a similar polling position around this time in 2012 so I'm not ready to declare a falling sky quite yet.

Yes, but Romney was a vaguely presidential-looking guy who could comport himself with dignity for upwards of ten minutes. In a rational universe Trump wouldn't be polling in even the same ballpark.
posted by jackbishop at 7:44 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


Trump is announcing his V.P. Pick tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. in New York City, in case anybody is interested.

In an Ooh, look, a car wreck ahead -- slow down sort of way, that is...
posted by y2karl at 7:44 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's going to be Ivanka. I can almost feel it my bones.
posted by Tevin at 7:47 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, Romney offered, if nothing else, competence. He's not stupid, he understands the basic functioning of government, economics, international relations. He would no doubt do many things that I think are a very bad idea, but he would not literally destroy our society.

That's a strong possibility for Trump.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:50 AM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


“On reflection, my recent remarks in response to press inquiries were ill-advised and I regret making them,” Justice Ginsburg said in a statement. “Judges should avoid commenting on a candidate for public office. In the future I will be more circumspect.”

I think this is an amazing statement in that she manages to apologize for her actions without distancing herself from the substance of what she said.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:50 AM on July 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


The Democrats traditionally draw more A-list celebrities, and this year will be no different. Among the actors and recording artists planning to attend are Lady Gaga, Snoop Dogg, Fergie, Lenny Kravitz, Idina Menzel and Bryan Cranston."
(That one because none of those people exactly scream "A-list" celeb to me.)


Really? Seems pretty prime to me. Gags is still a huge star, Snoop isn't necessarily A-list as far as drawing an audience but he's got a lot of pop culture cachet. Menzel is freakin Elsa and Breaking Bad pushed Cranston up to where he's getting cast as movie leads.
posted by phearlez at 7:52 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I don't know how true this is but it made me laugh: Michele Bachmann Says Jews Will Be Free To Say ‘Merry Christmas’ When Donald Trump Is President

ווערטער זאָל מען װעגן און ניט צײלן.

(Yiddish. An aphorism: words should be weighed and not counted.)
posted by zarq at 7:53 AM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


#ImWithCorb
posted by SPrintF at 7:54 AM on July 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


In a rational universe

I envy those of you who are joining us from Earth-2, although the shock from coming from Senator Beyonce--sorry, Senator Knowles--to this must be a bit overwhelming.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:55 AM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Senator Bey, surely.
posted by zarq at 7:56 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm *pretty* sure anyone who wants to say Merry Christmas can do so today.

Well, today might be silly, it's July.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:59 AM on July 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


In a rational universe Trump wouldn't be polling in even the same ballpark.
In a rational universe, Hillary Clinton would not have been the target of a very well organized and financed disinformation campaign for 25 years and still have won her party's nomination. As I've mentioned before, Trump has been self-financing a self-promotion campaign for even longer. The fact that he feels he has to use half of his Coronation/Convention to continue the attacks may mean that he is finally waking up to the fact that he IS one of the Most Hated Humans in America, and is one of the very few possible candidates who can be defeated by The Image of Hillary Clinton.

Which is why, while I wish MeFi's Own corb to make it through the convention safely, I can't wish her success in the Dump Trump movement, replacing him with a less totally reprehensible Republican.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:01 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Given the vast failure of polls to predict recent electoral results in a variety of settings recently, I would IGNORE them.

Except that the polls haven't been failing. On the eve of the Brexit vote, the polls showed a toss up, and that's exactly what we got. With Trump, the polls showed he was the primary frontrunner.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:02 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


On a side note: My surprisingly (and yet not) BernBro friend sent me a jpg last night ("Someone posted something to Facebook that really made sense...") about how Bernie accepting the nomination was EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED, and how he was going to ride to the convention and take the nomination, just like FDR did. I had to stop reading there, but there were more bullet points.
posted by gc at 8:03 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's not really about being "allowed" to say Merry Christmas; it's about being REQUIRED to say that and nothing else.

For me, "I hope your Christmas is as happy as most of mine were" is one of the worst curses I can give someone.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:05 AM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


My husband just pointed out that Paul Ryan does not appear to be listed as a speaker. He must be going to the RNC, isn't he supposed to be the chairman of the event?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:06 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Really? Seems pretty prime to me.

I'd have said Gaga was the nearest one there, the rest popular, but not "A-list," which I think of as, you know, Brad Pitt, Beyoncé, Robert Downey, Jr, etc. But I may be just out-of-touch with what an "A-list" celeb is.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:07 AM on July 14, 2016


Wow, there's a whole Snopes page about the Bernie/FDR comparison.
posted by readery at 8:08 AM on July 14, 2016


538s election polls are being heavily influenced by the Qpolls released this week. Mainly in terms of showing some really outlying results in Pennsylvania and Ohio. There are also some Gravis Marketing polls that are also having undue influence over some of the battleground states.
posted by vuron at 8:08 AM on July 14, 2016


ThePinkSuperhero Remember: When @realDonaldTrump opens his mouth, our kids are listening.

As a parent, I find this commercial extremely moving and scary!


The SPLC have published a report dealing with (in part) how children are being vicitmized by peers who are using the rhetoric of the Party of Trump.

A few disturbing findings:
Our report found that the campaign is producing an alarming level of fear and anxiety among children of color and inflaming racial and ethnic tensions in the classroom. Many students worry about being deported. [...]

Many children, however, are not afraid at all. Rather, some are using the word Trump as a taunt or as a chant as they gang up on others. Muslim children are being called terrorist or ISIS or bomber. [...]

“Students are hearing more hate language than I have ever heard at our school before,” says a high school teacher in Helena, Montana. Another teacher reports that a fifth-grader told a Muslim student “that he was supporting Donald Trump because he was going to kill all of the Muslims if he became president!” [...}

The gains made by years of anti-bullying work in schools have been rolled back in a few short months. Teachers report that students have been “emboldened” to use slurs, engage in name-calling and make inflammatory statements toward each other. When confronted, students point to the candidates and claim they are “just saying what everyone is thinking.” Kids use the names of candidates as pejoratives to taunt each other.
These are just a few tiny snippets from a 20 page report filled with these sorts of stories. This election's rhetoric has apparently had a hugely negative effect on political discourse at the elementary school level. It's going to take years and years to treat the damage Trump has wrought.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:09 AM on July 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Bernie accepting the nomination was EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED, and how he was going to ride to the convention and take the nomination, just like FDR did.

I mean, it's all woo anyway, but if you want to puncture this specific balloon, Sanders himself already made that impossible:
“The Senator made the difficult decision not to file minority reports,” Gunnels wrote in the email, which was sent to all of Sanders’s representatives on the Democratic convention Platform Committee and forwarded to this blog. “You should be receiving an e-mail soon from the Senator about the next steps in the political revolution.”

This dry language actually amounts to a very significant declaration: What it means is that the Sanders campaign will not further contest the makeup of the Democratic platform at the convention, even though Sanders did not get all the changes to the platform he had hoped for. Previously, the Sanders campaign had intimated that — even after he endorsed Clinton — it would file minority reports indicating his disagreement with various aspects of the Dem platform, which could have perhaps led to continuing disillusionment among his 13 million voters, whom Clinton very much wants to win over starting now.

This matters for two reasons: First, it shows that Sanders actually did get a great deal of what he had hoped for into the platform. And second, it suggests that, while there may still be some lingering conflicts over various matters involving rules, the convention will go a lot more smoothly than many had expected — and so will the process of Democratic unity.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:11 AM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Excommunicated Cardinal: This election's rhetoric has apparently had a hugely negative effect on political discourse at the elementary school level. It's going to take years and years to treat the damage Trump has wrought.

Goddammit.
posted by clawsoon at 8:13 AM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


In a rational universe Trump wouldn't be polling in even the same ballpark.

In 2008, 46% of the electorate voted to give Palin a very good chance to become president, given McCain was a 72 year old with a history of health issues. The right has been irrational for a while now.
posted by chris24 at 8:13 AM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh, that leads me into a question - how the hell is Gunnels still working for the Sanders campaign? One would think his documented fuckups with progressive activists would have gotten him cashiered.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:14 AM on July 14, 2016


Bryan Cranston looks pretty A-List to me. (but then, if he's so A-List, why is he guesting on a 12:30 talk show, not an 11:30 one?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:14 AM on July 14, 2016


Gunnels is his right-hand man in his Senatorial role. At this point, for better or for worse, he's not going anywhere at this point.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:17 AM on July 14, 2016


I think this is an amazing statement in that she manages to apologize for her actions without distancing herself from the substance of what she said.

Of course a Supreme Court Justice can deliver a flawless, subtle non-apology.
posted by fedward at 8:24 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Charlie Pierce: This Isn't Funny Anymore. American Democracy Is at Stake.
Damn them all now.

Damn the delegates who will vote for this man. Damn the professional politicians who will fall in line behind him or, worse, will sit back and hope this all blows over so the Republican Party once again will be able to relegate the poison this man has unleashed to the backwaters of the modern conservative intellectual mainstream, which is where it has been useful for over four decades. Damn the four hopeless sycophants who want to share a stage with him for four months. Damn all the people who will come here and speak on his behalf. Damn all the thoughtful folk who plumb his natural appeal for anything deeper than pure hatred.

Damn all the people who will vote for him, and damn any progressives who sit this one out because Hillary Rodham Clinton is wrong on this issue or that one. Damn all the people who are suggesting they do that. And damn all members of the media who treat this dangerous fluke of a campaign as being in any way business as usual. Any support for He, Trump is, at this point, an act of moral cowardice. Anyone who supports him, or runs with him, or enables his victory, or even speaks well of him, is a traitor to the American idea.

Damn, to name one, Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, the zombie-eyed granny-starver from the state of Wisconsin, now exposed as the feckless political weakling he's always been. On Wednesday, during an inexcusable CNN-sponsored informercial for himself, Ryan was asked the only question that mattered:
But the challenge facing Ryan was clear when he was asked a question by Zachary Marcone, a Republican who said he couldn't support Trump because he is "openly racist." "Can you tell me, how can you morally justify your support for this kind of candidate?" Marcone asked.
Ryan responded like the spineless careerist tool he's always been.
"You're going to help elect Hillary Clinton and I don't think Hillary Clinton is supporting any of the things you stand for if you're a Republican."
In other words, if we don't elect this authoritarian wild man, I won't get to gut Medicare the way I've always wanted to.

If I were Ryan, I'd put that on a bumper sticker.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:27 AM on July 14, 2016 [38 favorites]


Yo, I love Charles Pierce, but

Damn the delegates who will vote for this man.

That's how democracy works. The delegates should vote for him.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:29 AM on July 14, 2016


Party voting rules aren't necessarily subject to democracy.
posted by zutalors! at 8:30 AM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Party voting rules aren't necessarily subject to democracy.

Sure, but the Republicans had their primaries and what not. Trump is the nominee. End of story.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:32 AM on July 14, 2016


At a certain point in time you have to come to the conclusion that the Party (as represented by the party elite - professional politicos) might be better suited to preventing the rank and file from jumping off a cliff in a race to resemble lemmings.

I tend to believe strongly in democracy but primaries and caucuses are just democratic trappings on a party political process and there is no requirement that the party has to accept what the base selected. Of course that comes with a price and that's a price that the party leadership are unwilling to pay but for the long term good of the Republican brand it might be worthwhile.
posted by vuron at 8:38 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Apparently, Pence has purchased air time for his Indiana re-election campaign.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:40 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yo, I love Charles Pierce, but

Damn the delegates who will vote for this man.

That's how democracy works. The delegates should vote for him.


Damn them for volunteering to be delegates for him, then.
posted by Etrigan at 8:44 AM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Less than 24 hours left for random speculation about who Trump will choose as his running mate (and if anybody close to him leaks the name early, Dishonest Don is going to be so pissed)...

So let me point out that I'm kind of surprised Chuck Norris is not on the scheduled speakers list...
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:47 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm seriously considering going on a total news blackout until after the election. Watching this train wreck unfold in real time is doing terrible things for my anxiety and depression.

I live in the bluest of blue districts in the Bay Area and my vote could not matter less at the national level. Maybe the best thing for me is just make the maximum donation to the Clinton campaign, send in my mail-in ballot at the appropriate time and then not come out from under my rock until November 9th?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:48 AM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


I live in the bluest of blue districts in the Bay Area and my vote could not matter less at the national level. Maybe the best thing for me is just make the maximum donation to the Clinton campaign, send in my mail-in ballot at the appropriate time and then not come out from under my rock until November 9th?

Can you take some time off over a long weekend and knock on doors somewhere else?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:49 AM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


murphy slaw: I live in the bluest of blue districts in the Bay Area and my vote could not matter less at the national level.

You'd think so, but: Why turnout matters, even in true-blue districts: Large margins of victory make politicians more responsive to progressive goals
posted by clawsoon at 8:52 AM on July 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


murphy slaw, please consider volunteering to make phone calls! I learned last night that when Democrats show up to the polls, Democrats win. And when we're called by a fellow Democrat before the election, we're more likely to get out on election day.
posted by cooker girl at 8:54 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I hope Sanders can win over a decent number of Bernie-or-Busters, though obviously a lot of them are young and having a hard time hearing that he actually means what says about working for long-term goals and best way to get there. I hope it'll get through to most of them eventually.

> If people think Sanders would fold under pressure and go against his own principles, then why the hell did they think he would be a good president in the first place

Yeah, that attitude is pretty annoying. You've praised him for meaning what he says, even people who totally disagree with him have. Why do you think he's all of sudden lying to you now?

How many times has Sanders said "This election is not about Bernie Sanders"? How many times has he said "We have to build a grassroots movement"? Every stump speech he's given in this campaign. Were you listening? What did you think he meant? He lost the primaries, and he's talking about strategies for long-term goals, not for him, but for the policies he supports.

It's going to take a while for younger Bernie supporters who were excited hear someone talking seriously about the issues he was talking about during the campaign and excited to register and vote in the primaries for the first time to become seasoned activists for progressive and social democratic policies. But a lot of them have taken the first steps in that direction. Despite how annoyed I feel with some young Bernie supporters right now, I think a lot of them will, and it's going to be OK.
posted by nangar at 9:10 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]




Guess Chris Christie will have to settle for Transportation Secretary.
posted by zarq at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


Rabbi Haskel Lookstein, a prominent Modern Orthodox rabbi (who did Ivanka's conversion in fact) is listed as a GOP convention speaker right under Jerry Falwell Jr. I guess so he can be one of Trump's "my Jews" and be free to wish people a Merry Christmas.

This feels incredibly embarrassing.
posted by zachlipton at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Haha Pence, as if that's not a favor to Indiana Republicans
posted by vuron at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I also live in a very blue immediate area, but I am planning on, if nothing else, making sure everyone in my area actually votes. This is a swing state even if my city hasn't had a republican mayor since the 30s. So I need to make sure that my neighbors--people without cars, people with busy schedules and multiple jobs, people who may not be informed as to the location of their polling station--actually make it into the booth. As soon as I'm finished with my move, the local campaign office will be hearing from me.

My impulse is also to just run away from this whole tire fire because yeah it's not doing my anxiety any favors, but if the unthinkable actually came to pass, I'd never forgive myself for not doing more.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:17 AM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Mike Pence clearly winning the wait, who? race
posted by theodolite at 9:20 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I also live in a very blue immediate area, but I am planning on, if nothing else, making sure everyone in my area actually votes

My mother is 82 and originally from southern Ohio. She's started talking about maybe spending a few weeks (!) there before the election, volunteering and door knocking.

I'm honestly terrified at the prospect. I'm afraid she'll be in physical danger if she goes.
posted by anastasiav at 9:20 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Pence is a national embarrassment both to Indiana Republicans and Indiana as a whole. Good riddance.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:29 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The New York Times is reporting that it will be Pence as well.
posted by zachlipton at 9:30 AM on July 14, 2016


anastasiav, she'd probably be safer than a younger person. There's a reluctance to assault an elderly woman.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I really doubt any information that comes from Trump or any of his minions, but I would also find it kind of funny if he is deliberately trolling the media. they deserve it.
posted by readery at 9:35 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'd say it's at least 50% chance fo trolling.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:36 AM on July 14, 2016


Rabbi Haskel Lookstein, a prominent Modern Orthodox rabbi (who did Ivanka's conversion in fact) is listed as a GOP convention speaker right under Jerry Falwell Jr. I guess so he can be one of Trump's "my Jews" and be free to wish people a Merry Christmas.

#NOTALLJEWS
posted by zarq at 9:38 AM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think Sanders is very well acquainted with various flavors of liberalism, progressivism, social democracy, and leftism, and knows where the policies he favors fall on that spectrum. The bit you quoted is from the Politico writer Daniel Strauss. Sanders himself consistently used the term "progressive". Sanders supports social democratic policies, and in the US, these have historically been referred to as progressive policies. That the Politico writer understands "progressive" as synonym of "liberal" doesn't mean Sanders doesn't know the difference.

Well that's a relief, thanks for clarifying.
posted by one_bean at 9:38 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Or he changes his mind once he sees that someone leaked it.
posted by chris24 at 9:38 AM on July 14, 2016


Trump/Pence 2016
Trumppence 2016
posted by kirkaracha at 9:39 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


> Float Tom Brady, land Tim Tebow.

The thing is, this is probably the beginning of Tebow's political career. Five bucks says his speech (the parts that aren't about how awesome Trump is, anyway) is about how he could have won five Super Bowls by now if the godless god-haters in the NFL hadn't blackballed him out of the league.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:40 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Feed the press, trumppence a lede
Trumpence, Trumpence, Trumpence a lede
"Feed the press," that's what he cries,
While overhead, whole fruits fill the skies.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:42 AM on July 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


Clinton's new ad is pretty amazing.
posted by Weeping_angel at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I mean, sad and frustrating, but it's a great ad.
posted by Weeping_angel at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trumpence is that noise that comes out when you blow on a trumpet and instead of sounding sweet and/or awesome it sounds kinda whiny and petulant and makes you embarrassed to have heard it.
posted by numaner at 9:55 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, the 28 pages from the 9/11 classified report will also be released as soon as tomorrow. (CNN)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:56 AM on July 14, 2016


Mike Pence is the guy you'd cast as the Vice President in a movie where he's only in one scene and doesn't have any lines
posted by theodolite at 10:05 AM on July 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


Details on The Deal That Wasn't. I drink Priebus' tears. This is not politics as usual! Your bribes have no power here!
posted by corb at 10:07 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'd have gone with "feed the Birb, trumppence a bag" myself.
posted by fedward at 10:10 AM on July 14, 2016


Some positive news out of Cleveland: Cleveland adopts transgender-friendly bathroom ordinance.
posted by Peccable at 10:10 AM on July 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Remember back in the 2007 good old days when the GOP VP was a warmonger who made his friend apologize to him after he shot him in the face and he still was better to queer people than Pence.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:10 AM on July 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Details on The Deal That Wasn't. I drink Priebus' tears. This is not politics as usual! Your bribes have no power here!

So you're trying to tell me it didn't really take hours to fix a paper jam? Was there even a printer at all? This requires a full Congressional investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 10:14 AM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Clinton's new ad is playing pretty much non-stop on Hulu, by the way. I don't know if I'm being profiled because I live in a swing state or because I'm marathoning The OC (don't judge, or do judge, I don't care) or what, but yeah. Clinton is all over Hulu for me.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:15 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


One cool thing about Mike Pence is that he tried to get a state-run news operation up and running in Indiana. That will dovetail nicely with Trump blackballing WaPo for saying true things about him.

This is fine. This is all fine.
posted by Tevin at 10:15 AM on July 14, 2016


Pence hosted an AM radio show from 1993 to 1999. I wonder if he happened to have ever mentioned Hillary Clinton at all?
posted by theodolite at 10:18 AM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


The SPLC have published a report dealing with (in part) how children are being vicitmized by peers who are using the rhetoric of the Party of Trump.

Yeah. My sister is a teacher in Orange County, CA. She works with elementary (K-2) English language learners. She tells me a lot of these kids are terrified they'll be deported -- even kids whose families are totally citizens. It's not like they understand the difference.

That angry protest of Trump at the OC fairgrounds a couple months back? Lot of angry parents in that crowd. I don't know how anyone could blame them.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:19 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


Kendal Unruh tells me she still has 28 votes for conscience clause minority report. Says it wasn't discussed in mtg w/Cuccinelli etc

She's been saying it for days though and there's some reason to doubt they're at 28.

You’re gonna need rules committee approval and you don’t have the votes
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's on C-Span now FYI for those of you who want to watch along.
posted by corb at 10:26 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm marathoning The OC (don't judge, or do judge, I don't care)

I own the DVD boxed set, so I got your back Chino-style if anyone gives you guff.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:27 AM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Drew Magary: America, Try a Trump Detox!:
I got rid of the Twitter search. I unfollowed the cadre of poor souls like Katy Tur and Sopan Deb who do a very good job of covering the Trump campaign hour by hour. I deliberately avoided joints like the Times and The Washington Post, lest I see that puckered dog’s ass of a face by accident. I also avoided the major news networks, which is an extremely easy sacrifice to make, but still. I took a vow to not say his name out loud. This was not some bullshit exercise in media self-flagellation for overcovering him, mind you. I think Trump should be covered a lot. This was strictly for my own private well-being.

My goal was to avoid any mention of Trump for a week. I took my family to the beach and sequestered myself from any notion of making America great again. And I kept a Trump Journal, detailing every encounter with the name, like a person on a diet keeping a calorie count.
posted by palindromic at 10:27 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




I'm marathoning The OC

It's probably miles better spiritually than watching any real news going on right now. Cheers.
posted by numaner at 10:28 AM on July 14, 2016


Also how is it legal for police to wear their uniforms while representing a political party as a delegate?
posted by corb at 10:30 AM on July 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I wonder how running as VP will affect Pence's re-election bid for Indiana governor.

While his choice doesn't surprise me, I don't see it as a new positive for Trump. The nod is obviously intended to solidify support among evangelical voters, but the Republican nominee should have that block all sewed up, and I wonder how popular Pence really is after being perceived as backing down over the so-called "religious freedom" law. (He does have an odious anti-abortion statute to his culture war credit, though.)

Indiana isn't exactly a battleground state, either, although I'll write off any hopes of it squeaking into the D column this time around.

The only plus I can see is that Trump isn't very bright or aggressive, so Trump probably feels comfortable with him as a subordinate, but I also don't see him impressing the national press corps.

In short, I see it as a defensive move, which is probably good news for the Democrats.
posted by Gelatin at 10:32 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




I wonder how running as VP will affect Pence's re-election bid for Indiana governor.

He's mandated to drop out by Indiana law, and the state party has to pick a new nominee with deadline = literally tomorrow.
posted by theodolite at 10:34 AM on July 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Which hopefully means the Democrats will have a sitting governor going into the crucial 2020 election.
posted by Gelatin at 10:36 AM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


(I also wonder what Pence taking the spot says about his perception of the chance of getting re-elected.)
posted by Gelatin at 10:37 AM on July 14, 2016


Oh my trumppence!
posted by howfar at 10:37 AM on July 14, 2016




Selecting Mike Pence shows that Trump's pivot to the center plan is going like gangbusters. Smells like a desperate attempt to shore up the Christian Right vote, after Dobson's anointing-with-snake-oil didn't gain any traction.
posted by chimaera at 10:39 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yep, Police Will Allow Protesters To Open Carry Guns Outside GOP Convention

I honestly hope we make it out of this convention with nobody getting killed.
posted by Talez at 10:41 AM on July 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


Any Canadians want to get married? Gender and age irrelevant. I like cats and dance music and I make good burritos.
posted by AFABulous at 10:42 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Yep, Police Will Allow Protesters To Open Carry Guns Outside GOP Convention
posted by indubitable at 10:37 AM on July 14


They would have no legal basis for any other position, really (as they state in the article).

It's a natural result of the policies of the party hosting the convention, so . . . reap what you sow and all.
posted by yesster at 10:43 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Mike Pence and Orly Taitz in '12 when Taitz was trying to remove Obama from the Indiana ballot. Given how much both ends of the ticket owe to the World's Most Deluded Dentist, I expect to see her in Cleveland next week.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:43 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


The view on Pence has been: low-risk/low-return. He's a (not super popular) politician from a state that should pretty much be a given, mostly of interest to a bloc that should mostly be Trump's anyway. He probably won't completely implode, but his value is lesser.

He also has the reputation of one of our dumbest politicians, which is no easy task.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:44 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm already married, but any Canadians hiring? I might, uh, be looking for a job outside the country come November.
posted by stolyarova at 10:44 AM on July 14, 2016


Wow, there's a whole Snopes page about the Bernie/FDR comparison.

Needs more Eleanor.
posted by y2karl at 10:45 AM on July 14, 2016


O RLY?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:46 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




“Smoking Doesn’t Kill” And Other Great Old Op-Eds From Mike Pence

That first one. Unbelievable. Someone should beat his ass repeatedly with cases of radioactive cigarettes for trying to diminish public concern over the dangers of smoking.

He says "90% of smokers do not get lung cancer."

Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death for men and the second leading for women (after breast cancer) in the world. 90% of lung cancers are from smoking. 90% of male deaths from lung cancer are related to smoking. 80% of female deaths from lung cancer are from smoking.

In the US, the 5 year survival rate of lung carcinoma is under 20% (and has been reported to be as low as 13%) which is MUCH MUCH lower than that for breast, ovarian, colorectal, bladder and prostate cancers. The average five year survival rate for all cancers averaged out is about 50%.
posted by zarq at 10:53 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


The Trump campaign might need to clean up his Twitter history a bit.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:55 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


If the convention isn't enough crazy for you, there are the after parties.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:57 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Indiana isn't exactly a battleground state, either, although I'll write off any hopes of it squeaking into the D column this time around.

I'll admit that my view of Pence's (un)popularity in Indiana is skewed by the fact that the part of Indiana I live closest to is very different than the rest of the state but given that and the feelings of my (certainly not dyed-blue) family elsewhere in the state, but I would have thought that Pence as VP choice moves the needle closer to Clinton in Indiana than it was before. (I'll bow to your knowledge as an actual Indianan, Gelatin.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:59 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]






If the convention isn't enough crazy for you, there are the after parties.

I kind of want to go to this and report back. It seems like a train wreck.
posted by corb at 11:06 AM on July 14, 2016 [20 favorites]


corb, maybe you should get a body camera before you go.
posted by stolyarova at 11:08 AM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I kind of want to go to this and report back. It seems like a train wreck.

Latina lady going to a Milo event? You won't make it through the door before someone throws you out as an SJW shill/spy.
posted by Talez at 11:10 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Probable Vice Presidential Pick Tim Kaine To Campaign With Hillary Clinton - "As a young Richmond lawyer, Kaine focused on housing discrimination cases. His work within the black community helped fuel his first election victory to the city council in 1995... Kaine has never lost an election, and in every one of those elections, he's been able to win black voters without alienating whites and vice versa."
posted by kliuless at 11:11 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ugh. Kaine?
Sigh.
posted by Superplin at 11:14 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Kaine's a safe-but-boring choice. He might slightly help her chances, but I'm not excited about the prospect of him succeeding her in 2020.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:15 AM on July 14, 2016


Kaine's a safe-but-boring choice.

I don't want a middle-aged white man on the ticket. No offense to middle-aged white men (I'm married to one and quite like him!), but I just don't.
posted by cooker girl at 11:17 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


[Couple comments deleted; no biggie but let's not do big copy-paste dumps of stuff just to show how deluded it is, it tends to steer the conversation off the rails.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:18 AM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The thing is, this is probably the beginning of Tebow's political career. Five bucks says his speech (the parts that aren't about how awesome Trump is, anyway) is about how he could have won five Super Bowls by now if the godless god-haters in the NFL hadn't blackballed him out of the league.

I dunno, he was pretty reasonable (attitudinally) in the Philadelphia Eagles' training camp last year, competing for a 3rd string job with Matt Barkley. (The surprise ending was, both were dumped -- Barkley traded, Tebow cut.)

Tebow wasn't awful football-wise, but erratic on his throws and way rusty. The coach (Chip Kelly) told him earnestly that if he played in Canada for a couple of years he had a solid shot of making an NFL roster.

The fact that he chose the TV announcer route (more money, less hard work and injury risk) makes this scenario pretty unlikely. Of course, he might let us know that God told him that his talents were better used in politics than football.
posted by msalt at 11:18 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


corb, maybe you should get a body camera before you go.

I would, but I don't have one or the ability to do so. If you can recommend any video apps that work on an iPhone 6s, I'm down, though!
posted by corb at 11:20 AM on July 14, 2016


Kaine's a safe-but-boring choice.

Kind of what I expected. I wonder who Bernie would have chosen? Hillary would be obvious but I have doubts she'd take it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:22 AM on July 14, 2016


periscope?
posted by gofargogo at 11:22 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jamelle Bouie has been calling Kaine the best choice since at least June 2015.
posted by maudlin at 11:23 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Kaine's a safe-but-boring choice. He might slightly help her chances, but I'm not excited about the prospect of him succeeding her in 2020.

Do you know something we don't or did you mean 2024?
posted by phearlez at 11:24 AM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Lindsey Graham: I appreciate Indiana Governor @Mike_Pence endorsing @TedCruz for President. He's standing up for Conservatism -- not Trumpism. #INGOP
posted by PenDevil at 11:25 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


If you can recommend any video apps that work on an iPhone 6s, I'm down, though!

The BLM FPP has some discussion about that starting about here. Your needs may vary a bit, obviously.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:27 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jamelle Bouie has been calling Kaine the best choice at least since June 2015.

I would interpret those tweets as saying he's the safest choice -- the talk about "checking boxes" and "zero liabilities" is all an appeal to the part our brain that just doesn't want to fuck this up instead of the part that's a little more tolerant of risk in order to get a base-expanding choice in there instead of merely a base-preserving one.

Which is to say, yeah, Clinton/Kaine 2016, but... meh.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:28 AM on July 14, 2016


If Kaine convinces one "not sure I can vote for Hillary Clinton / a woman" person in a swing state, then he's a fine choice. It's not like VPs *do* anything of significance. He sounds plenty competent. Bouie's comparison to Biden seems pretty apt.
posted by R343L at 11:28 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Geert Wilders? Really?
posted by murphy slaw at 11:28 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Do you know something we don't or did you mean 2024?

Whoops, 2024, I hope.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:32 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Make American Great Again!
America First!
Here's a Bunch of Shitty Right-Wing Nationalists From Countries That Aren't America!
posted by defenestration at 11:32 AM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I would interpret those tweets as saying he's the safest choice

"I can't wait to vote for Tim Kaine!" isn't something I imagine many people have said to themselves but I think Bouie gets its right. Short of trading a Senate seat, or taking a risk on someone with less experience, he's probably the best return on the offer.

Geert Wilders? Really?

He's there to keep Nigel Farage company.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:39 AM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Clinton/Warren is still my fantasy ticket but there are some obvious problems with it: it's not a great look to have two northeastern senators, damn the rest of the country; it's not as necessary to have a firebrand progressive on the ticket now that Sanders is wholeheartedly stumping for Hillary; and her talents would be wasted for years. I don't think it's possible to be thrilled about Tim Kaine unless you're related to him, but there are much worse choices.
posted by theodolite at 11:39 AM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


corb, maybe you should get a body camera before you go.

I would, but I don't have one or the ability to do so. If you can recommend any video apps that work on an iPhone 6s, I'm down, though!


Shit, I'll buy you a $15 body cam to see that train wreck. (I just ordered one of these and will report on it after it arrives Monday) But I doubt they'd let you wear it in there.
posted by phearlez at 11:40 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Here's a Bunch of Shitty Right-Wing Nationalists From Countries That Aren't America!

Other countries really did beat us to the right-wing nationalism, though. Making America First requires some remedial work.
posted by fedward at 11:41 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Tebow wasn't awful football-wise, but erratic on his throws and way rusty

He was awful. "Tebow won quite a few games and did so in the fourth quarter, which was phrased as 'Tebow Time,' but his numbers simply weren't of the same caliber of several franchise quarterbacks." The wins were due more to the Broncos' great defense and opponents' mistakes than to Tebow (career 47.9% completion rate).

posted by kirkaracha at 11:45 AM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


People have mentioned driving voters to the polls a way to help get out the vote; is helping people acquire and submit mail-in ballots equally good?
posted by Tehhund at 11:46 AM on July 14, 2016


Kaine's a safe-but-boring choice. He might slightly help her chances, but I'm not excited about the prospect of him succeeding her in 202[4].

I don't think VP as expected successor to a President is really much of a thing anymore. The last time it happened (yes, discounting Gore) was George H. W. Bush in 1988, and before that you have to go back decades to find an example. I think any politician who believes they have a real shot at winning the presidency at some point in the future would probably turn down a VP offer.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:48 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Incidentally, a grand total of zero people predicted a Mike Pence VP in the February metatalk thread. (There are two Kaines)
posted by theodolite at 11:52 AM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Even if it's an advantage for the 2024 election - while I'd like to see the White House continue a bit of a run of not-white-dudes, I don't entirely agree that someone whose private litigation career focused on fair housing is a ho-hum choice. I am sure I am somewhat biased, having voted for Kaine every time I could in the last decade, but from my perspective he's delivered good stuff for me. I'm still vaguely amazed Virginia of all places passed a public smoking ban a full decade ago.

Diversity aside, if you think HRC will do good things for you I think you would be happy with Kaine.
posted by phearlez at 11:54 AM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Maybe Trump's speech will be him just calling all of these people losers.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:56 AM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Hey, the guy who actually invented the internet (Vint Cerf) is on there! Neat.
posted by stolyarova at 11:58 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Re: Peter Thiel at the RNC endorsing Trump, I guess it's a fine line between 'libertarian' and authoritarian, huh?
posted by Existential Dread at 12:00 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The letter being signed "Vint Cerf, Internet Pioneer" is very, very extremely badass.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:02 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Existential Dread: Re: Peter Thiel at the RNC endorsing Trump, I guess it's a fine line between 'libertarian' and authoritarian, huh?

Isn't Thiel the guy who doesn't believe in democracy?
posted by clawsoon at 12:04 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ann Coulter on Pence: “combo-platter of disaster.”

President Obama on Pence: did "important work" w/admin on expanding Medicaid in his state.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:06 PM on July 14, 2016


If you'd like to ignore the large contingent of libertarians who want absolutely nothing to do with Trump because he's literally a fascist, I guess? Trump disagrees fundamentally with libertarian views on immigration, the drug war, women's and trans rights (a shit ton of libertarians, including Weld and Johnson, are progressive here), NSA surveillance, "bombing the shit out of" the Middle East, free trade, etc. etc.
posted by stolyarova at 12:07 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Thiel is also a gay man supporting the most anti-LGBTQ GOP platform ever, so maybe looking for ideological consistency in the dude is asking a bit much.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:10 PM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


stolyarova: I meant to imply that Thiel is nothing more than a garden-variety authoritarian white privilege douche, not that he in any way represents libertarian thinking. Snark tends to pave over nuance, sorry.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:12 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ann Coulter on Pence: “combo-platter of disaster.”

Ann Coulter, having been awakened from an apparent 12 month slumber, says Pence is "Trump's first mistake."
posted by peeedro at 12:14 PM on July 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


I would, but I don't have one or the ability to do so. If you can recommend any video apps that work on an iPhone 6s, I'm down, though!

I don't have any firsthand experience with streaming apps, but have heard of the above-mentioned Periscope before. I believe it was used by Democrats during the recent sit-in after the C-SPAN feed was cut off.

Streaming can consume battery quickly. You may want to bring a battery case like this one or an external battery like this one. (On the latter link, the 10k mAh battery is out of stock but the higher capacity battery is still in stock.)

Start the stream and continue filming with your phone in landscape mode (i.e., holding it sideways, so the field of view is wider instead of taller). On the Media has published guidelines for filming the police that may also be helpful in other circumstances.
posted by compartment at 12:16 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Imagine what his second mistake will look like!
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:16 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I still don't believe it's going to be Pence. It's way too boring for Trump, whose entire campaign has been fed by a steady diet of EXTRAVAGANZA.
posted by Tevin at 12:17 PM on July 14, 2016




please pick a teletubby. please pick a teletubby.
posted by lalochezia at 12:18 PM on July 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Mike Pence

Nice to see the argument that Trump would at least be better than Cruz/etc because of his more moderate stance on social issues completely and definitively disproven:
Nationally, Pence is perhaps best known for signing into law a mean-spirited “religious liberty” bill targeting LGBTQ people—then revising the measure after its discriminatory purpose sparked coast-to-coast outcry. The religious liberty flap demonstrated that Pence is casually anti-gay, startlingly craven, and extraordinarily vacuous. All these qualities make him the ideal choice for Trump’s vice president.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:18 PM on July 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Ann Coulter, having been awakened from an apparent 12 month slumber, says Pence is "Trump's first mistake."

Ia! Ia! Coulter f'taghn!
posted by dragstroke at 12:19 PM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


President Obama on Pence: did "important work" w/admin on expanding Medicaid in his state.

"He's okay for helping us out with that thing that's one of the Obama administrations biggest achievements that the GOP base also hates a lot." is some A-1 press secretary shade.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:19 PM on July 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


@toddzwillich: Just to make sure this is seen: Congress just left for the summer with no funding bill for Zika prevention or vaccine. Good luck, babies.
I previously described how supervillain-esque almost every GOP Congressperson is being on Zika here. The tl;dr is that they're holding it hostage because of Confederate flags, regulating pesticide pollution, Planned Parenthood, and Obamacare. Y'know, as one does in a impending pandemic expected to affect southern states, is carried by insects, causes birth defects, and requires a federalized health response.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:19 PM on July 14, 2016 [32 favorites]


Come on, Donald. Don't keep us all in sus
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:20 PM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Existential Dread: "Re: Peter Thiel at the RNC endorsing Trump"

I wonder what Thiel's standing is like in Silicon Valley tech circles nowadays. I thought that he was generally well-regarded, if maybe considered a bit out-there in terms of his libertarianism. I figure at least the people listed in the article that The Card Cheat linked above must think less of Thiel, right? I mean, I can imagine the progression:
"Oh, he has a bumper sticker? Eh, maybe it's ironic."
"Oh no. It's not ironic. He told me straight up he's voting for Trump."
"Well, voting's a deeply personal thing and..."
"He's publicly supporting Trump. He's giving interviews and stuff."
"Well, y'know, freedom of speech and all that..."
"And now he's a delegate for Trump."
"I mean, it makes sense that Thiel's voting Republican. Maybe he just wants to be involved in the political process and go to Clevel..."
"And now he's giving a speech at the convention."
"Awww c'mon, man."
On the other hand, there's possibly some subset of SV tech people who lean more Trumpian than one would expect, i.e.: Thiel is probably not a lone outlier but may simply be the most prominent one in that circle.
posted by mhum at 12:20 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




I don't think VP as expected successor to a President is really much of a thing anymore. The last time it happened (yes, discounting Gore) was George H. W. Bush in 1988, and before that you have to go back decades to find an example. I think any politician who believes they have a real shot at winning the presidency at some point in the future would probably turn down a VP offer.

It's still a good way for someone who otherwise might not be thought of to get their name strongly in the conversation, though. Joe Biden went from a guy who finished fifth in Iowa and dropped out to a guy who could well have been the candidate this time around. The fact that it hasn't worked as a springboard is probably more that it's been a long time since a president was both popular and healthy/alive at the end of their term. It's the same set of circumstances that means that Obama is going to be the first sitting president to actively campaign for his party's candidate (other than themselves) since, uh, Teddy Roosevelt with Taft? These things never go exactly as planned, but I think it's a good bet that if Kaine is the pick and does become vice-president, people will want him to run for president later on, which is a thing that approximately zero people want now.

That said, being a failed VP candidate is a really deep hole to climb out of, so I can see why someone with presidential ambitions who thinks they could get their name out there otherwise wouldn't want to risk it (also the job itself is pretty dumb and plenty of people would have more power and influence elsewhere).
posted by Copronymus at 12:24 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I know a 30 year old Peter Thiel superfan who lives in San Francisco and jumps around from failed startup to failed startup. He believes that Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy and campus PC culture is killing free speech.
posted by theodolite at 12:26 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


please pick a teletubby. please pick a teletubby.

Or perhaps, given their shared affinity for Kim Jong-un, we could have TRUMP/RODMAN 2016
posted by Existential Dread at 12:26 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


As a civil libertarian technoprogressive, I'll be the first to admit that a large number of people who call themselves "libertarians" are garden-variety authoritarian white privilege douches. I call them brutalists.
posted by stolyarova at 12:26 PM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


During the Republican Convention, Toy Guns Are Banned, Real Guns Are Fine Though

"If you draw a gun at the Republican convention, it better be real!"
posted by straight at 12:29 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


This is my public prayer not to have another extended discussion about libertarian flavors
posted by phearlez at 12:29 PM on July 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


Don't forget, the Federal Election Commission report for the month of June will be released next Wednesday. I suspect that might be even more interesting than his VP choice.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


This is my public prayer not to have another extended discussion about libertarian flavors

But I hear the Bootstraps N' Cream and Mint Rothbard Chip are especially delicious on scorchers like today!
posted by zombieflanders at 12:35 PM on July 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


So porn is a public health crisis, and Zika isn't? Toy guns are more dangerous than real guns?

I'm just not clever enough to be right-wing, Those things make as much sense to me as a Rubik's Cube does to a parrot.
posted by Devonian at 12:35 PM on July 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


Nice to see the argument that Trump would at least be better than Cruz/etc because of his more moderate stance on social issues completely and definitively disproven: "Nationally, Pence is perhaps best known for signing into law a mean-spirited “religious liberty” bill"

Don't for get about Periods for Pence. He signed a law requiring "miscarried fetuses, as well as aborted fetuses, to be "interred or cremated by a facility having possession of the remains" but since any period could potentially be a miscarriage without a woman's knowledge, women were "making sure to contact Governor Pence's office to report our periods. We wouldn't want him thinking that THOUSANDS OF HOOSIER WOMEN A DAY are trying to hide anything, would we?"

So yeah, a Trump / Pence ticket offers the worst of both worlds. "Ogliarchy / Patriarchy 2016"
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:35 PM on July 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


LOL!
Planting Peace arranged for this lovely billboard to go up in Cleveland today, taking a stab at the Republican party's long-running stance against gay rights.

The billboard is located on West 25th Street, visible to southbound traffic passing over the railroad (near Porco).

As you can see in the illustration, Sen. Ted Cruz is cupping the feathery runoff of Donald Trump's "hair," fulfilling the sexual tension that so clearly danced across debate stages earlier this year. Love trumps hate, indeed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:36 PM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I just don't see Trump being satisfied with a "Trump/Pence" bumper sticker or yard sign. I just don't. It doesn't have enough zazz, you know? Enough panache.

Trump/Flynn and Trump/Gingrich each get to put him in a position of power over a General and a Big National Name. And of course Trump/Trump is easily shortened to TRUMP and I think he'd enjoy that.

But anyway I guess this goes to show that his ego can, in times of extreme necessity, be checked in pursuit of a strategic goal. I don't like that.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:39 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


In an interview with the Washington Examiner on Thursday, the Republican nominee said he wishes he could join in the craze over the new smartphone game “Pokemon Go.”

Asked if he’s played the game, Trump said no.

“I don’t, but people are playing it. No question about it,” he said. “I do not. I wish I had time.”
I can't really picture him playing. For one thing I can't picture him going out in public and mingling with the masses while playing. Maybe he just means he wishes he had more time to do Trumpian things like play golf and haggle over the price of his name.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:41 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Isn't Thiel the guy who doesn't believe in democracy?

Why Donald Trump and Peter Thiel are a match made in alt-right heaven
posted by homunculus at 12:43 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


TRUMP/CAIN would bring some Pokemon flavor-of-the-moment to the ticket.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:44 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Haven't seen anyone link this yet -- Vox on how Pence has some pretty big disagreements with Trump: on the Muslim ban, the TPP, Social Security, etc.

They paint this as a bad thing for Trump, disappointing his base, although I have a pretty strong feeling it'll just be processed as reaching out to conventional GOP voters, and his base won't give a shit.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:48 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


From homunculus' link:
Thiel’s rather extreme views might best be captured in an essay he wrote for Cato Unbound in which he described his dismay at women having been given the vote and his hatred of welfare:

‘The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.’
Wow, fuck that dude.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:48 PM on July 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


Yeah, Thiel is a solid gold asshole.
posted by stolyarova at 12:49 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump is fundraising in California today and then plans on making the VP announcement in New York City tomorrow morning. God I am so glad I am not running for President. I'm 12 years younger than he is and his schedule is nightmarish to me. Now I have to get up off of my butt and go to the gym. Blah. Maybe it would be easier if I had a private helicopter to whisk me over there.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:51 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Those things make as much sense to me as a Rubik's Cube does to a parrot.

You were saying?
posted by tobascodagama at 12:51 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


"I Wish I Had Time To Play Pokemon" Says Republican Presidential Nominee Donald Trump: a completely unremarkable thing to read today, the 14th of July, 2016 C.E.
posted by theodolite at 12:52 PM on July 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


Kids are absorbing all the negativity for sure. I hear depressing stories about that every time I talk politics with my sister.
posted by bardophile at 12:53 PM on July 14, 2016


Kea/Crow 2016, is what I'm saying.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:53 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Thiel uses his billions to fund court cases to drive out businesses like Gawker that he hates. Trump uses his billions to bully people away from filing suit against him because he'll drown them in litigation. Sounds like a match made in heaven. If only they had a reason to sue each other, maybe they would just spend all of their money and collapse into a singularity.
posted by gatorae at 12:56 PM on July 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


No big surprise here:
Republican nominee Donald Trump is defending his friend Fox News CEO Roger Ailes from accusations that he sexually harassed female employees.

In an interview Thursday with the Washington Examiner, Trump said he doesn't believe the allegations recently leveled against the 76-year-old Fox News chief executive. "I think they are unfounded, just based on what I've read. Totally unfounded based on what I've read."
Ugh. Why Trump thinks he knows what happened is baffling. Old white guy supports old white guy I guess.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:58 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


o please o please o please. sue-gularity.
posted by lalochezia at 12:59 PM on July 14, 2016


Did you say Singularity? Ray Kurzweil can dance on their graves.
posted by stolyarova at 12:59 PM on July 14, 2016


I'm 12 years younger than he is and his schedule is nightmarish to me.

Hillary Clinton's schedule is nightmarish (as are almost all Presidential campaign schedules). She is on the road pretty much constantly and will be until November. Trump, on the other hand, likes to sleep in his own bed, popping out by luxury private jet to do an hour or two of campaigning and headed back home. When he campaigns, he doesn't target swing states.

Go compare Clinton's public schedule with Trump's right now. Yes, it's not a great time to compare because of the conventions, but still... The only thing Trump has planned is tomorrow's announcement. He's simply not campaigning. Plenty of mid-level salespeople have more grueling travel schedules.
posted by zachlipton at 1:01 PM on July 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Ugh. Why Trump thinks he knows what happened is baffling. Old white guy supports old white guy I guess.

I would liken the depth of Trump's ignorance to the Dead Sea except the Dead Sea has a bottom.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:03 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I would liken the depth of Trump's ignorance to the Dead Sea except the Dead Sea has a bottom.

Where do you think he's pulling his information out of?
posted by Etrigan at 1:05 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


collapse into a singularity.

ITYM "wingularity." HTH, HAND.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:05 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Dead Sea is pretty shallow, it's just that its surface is below sea level.

Oh, I see, the analogy works.
posted by psoas at 1:06 PM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Why Trump thinks he knows what happened is baffling.

One assumes it's the same source that assures him thousands of Muslims were dancing in the streets on 9/11 and that "people" have been calling for a moment of silence to honor the Dallas gunman who killed the police officers. Breitbart, maybe.
posted by aught at 1:06 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


And Cornell West backs Stein.

Remind me again why he was allowed to help shape the Democratic Party platform?
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:11 PM on July 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


Existential Dread: ‘The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.’

Funny, I read a similar sentiment just the other day, in an ad linked from the suffragrette FPP. He's bringing back the good ol' days... of 1916.
posted by clawsoon at 1:11 PM on July 14, 2016


"Pokemon GO TO THE POLLS"
posted by stolyarova at 1:11 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


How to solve low voter turnout: a Mewtwo in every voting booth.
posted by Tevin at 1:14 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]






Funny, my wife and I were talking about pokemon GOTV drives last night. Pokemon Go has totally transformed our town, there are hundreds of more people on the streets everywhere all the time now. It would be awesome if they tweaked the algorithm to drive people to polling places. That's assuming it's still 'a thing' come November.
posted by gofargogo at 1:19 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]




My local polling place is a church that also happens to be a pokestop. Damn straight I'm dropping a lure or two on election day!
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:21 PM on July 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump, on the other hand, likes to sleep in his own bed, popping out by luxury private jet to do an hour or two of campaigning and headed back home.

I suppose it is only 20-30 minutes from touchdown at LGA to Trump Tower if you're getting in after midnight and coming in via GA.
posted by Talez at 1:26 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Wow, why hadn't I thought of that before? Tim Kaine would be a great pick for VP — he's a boring Third Way centrist, so they wouldn't be poaching a progressive from the Senate and parking them somewhere they can't do anything, and Virginia's governor is a Democrat, so another Democrat would be appointed to replace him. Plus he seems competent enough to take the helm in the unlikely event that Clinton can't finish out her term. Works for me!
posted by indubitable at 1:29 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


u is uzing thinking brane. use vowting brane of undecided persun.
posted by lalochezia at 1:34 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Here's video of Hillary's Pokemon comment.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:47 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is the best place to register in person the local DMV? We should remember to drop some Lures at those as well, between now and when registration closes in each state.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:53 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


How big a problem is the Philly airport workers' announced strike going to be for the DNC?
posted by bardophile at 1:57 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Remind me again why he was allowed to help shape the Democratic Party platform?

As a purely symbolic gesture to appease Sanders supporters.
posted by Abelian Grape at 1:58 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


How big a problem is the Philly airport workers' announced strike going to be for the DNC?

Add SEPTA's train problems to that mix, unless they are dedicating cars to the airport line.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:59 PM on July 14, 2016


Okay, Rules Committee is in a break now. Not looking good for the 28 votes atm... Looks like only about 23 hardcore anti-Trump willing to vote along with the whip on everything. Hopefully we can get another 5 before Monday.
posted by corb at 2:01 PM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


How big a problem is the Philly airport workers' announced strike going to be for the DNC?

Would the Philly airport really work any differently? I avoid flying through that place whenever possible.
posted by indubitable at 2:04 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




Just to make sure this is seen: Congress just left for the summer with no funding bill for Zika prevention or vaccine. Good luck, babies.

The Zika crisis: How Congress abandoned its duty to govern
posted by homunculus at 2:17 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was wondering who that African American pastor was who's talking at Trump rallies. Should have figured it was prosperity gospel. I like the link with the piece to Trump-Supporting Pastor Mark Burns Says Bernie Sanders 'Needs to Be Saved, Needs Jesus'
posted by readery at 2:18 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Unique high-level pokemon at voting centers? Sounds like they're on to something, actually.
posted by zug at 2:20 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


An Ultra-Capitalist Christian Sect Is Taking Center Stage At The RNC, Thanks To Donald Trump

Some communist hippie way back in the day said something about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of god. I'm sure he was just mistaken.
posted by Talez at 2:20 PM on July 14, 2016 [16 favorites]




Wow, why hadn't I thought of that before? Tim Kaine would be a great pick for VP — he's a boring Third Way centrist, so they wouldn't be poaching a progressive from the Senate and parking them somewhere they can't do anything, and Virginia's governor is a Democrat, so another Democrat would be appointed to replace him.

Well it's marginally more complicated than that. VA rules lets the gov (mcauliffe) appoint a replacement but they'll have to have an election in November. We will be doing one then for governor so that meets the rules for next general election. 2017.

Yes, we do them in off-OFF years. It's fucking moronic.

Anyway, that's kinda sub-optimal to have an election in an off year but this might almost be better than a Kaine re-election which would have happened in 2018 anyway. We've done okay getting dems out to vote in a dem governor over the last decade, though it helps that they keep running whackos like Cuccinelli, so perhaps a good dem candidate could take it in a special in 17. Deeds almost beat Captain Corruption for governor back in the day, maybe he'd take it and be able to hold it.
posted by phearlez at 2:34 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


are they sure they want to open up the ol' scripture-as-metaphor can of theological worms?
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:35 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was wondering who that African American pastor was who's talking at Trump rallies

I was hoping/fearing that it was James Manning.

(Kind of a "Crisis On Infinite Political Fringes," you know.)
posted by octobersurprise at 2:35 PM on July 14, 2016


How do they rationalize the whole kicking the thieves out of the temple business?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:36 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


So MSNBC reporting that Pence is on a plane to New York right now. But since it's 2016, I won't believe anything until I see a series of tweets and a link to flightaware.
posted by cashman at 2:38 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


How do they rationalize the whole kicking the thieves out of the temple business?

FTFY
posted by lalochezia at 2:39 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh, the prosperity gospel crew have that whole "eye of a needle" thing covered.

Sadly, Jesus puts it all in context with the "sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven;" remark.
posted by Talez at 2:40 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hopefully we can get another 5 before Monday.

I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:41 PM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


are they sure they want to open up the ol' scripture-as-metaphor can of theological worms?

Apparently the new covenant may have let us eat shellfish, throw the old pigskin around, and tattoo ourselves until the cows come home but two dicks touching still makes god all icky.
posted by Talez at 2:41 PM on July 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Ok guys, it's true that one shouldn't be overly concerned at any individual poll. But the trend is obvious; Trump has closed the gap considerably with Clinton and that's ridiculous. It's unthinkable that this human dumpster fire is within the MoE of being the next president (as of now). Yes, it's early, don't panic, blah blah blah. But the idea that this guy with absolutely no qualifications to be President is polling nearly equal with a former Senator and Secretary of State is a shameful reflection on the electorate.
posted by Justinian at 2:45 PM on July 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


I'm pretty sure the "eye of the needle" re-interpretation goes back to the first bishop who developed a liking for fancy hats.
posted by clawsoon at 2:46 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Kolkata-based tea company TE-A-ME sent 6,000 bags of Assam green tea to Trump, delivered at the Trump Towers in New York.

TE-A-ME expects that the tea would last Trump four years, if he drinks three cups a day. The five-Kg. (11 pound) package was sent with a friendly message that more is available, if he needs it. Of course, hopefully, Trump would be ‘cleansed’ and purged of all his xenophobia and racism that he’s let loose at voters and the people living in America, after 6.000 bags of Green tea.

An online video message TE-A-ME had this to offer: “Dear Mr. Trump, Namaste from India. We are sending you lots and lots of natural green tea. It fights against harmful free radicals. It helps purify mind and body and regain a healthy balance. It has also proven to make people smarter. Please Mr. Trump drink the tea. For your sake, for America’s sake, for the world’s sake.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:46 PM on July 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Cleveland Strip Clubs Pumped for Trump but Brace for Violent Protests “Republicans love strippers, so we’re just hoping to make some money.”
posted by kirkaracha at 2:48 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Sadly, Jesus puts it all in context with the "sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven;" remark.

I'm sure he meant that metaphorically.
posted by mazola at 2:48 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It fights against harmful free radicals.

Trump wants to fight against those harmful free radical liberals. Don't encourage him.
posted by zachlipton at 2:48 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


That sounds like a Creepshow episode where he laughs at it, then ends up drinking the tea, and it expels this living black diarrhea from him that basically empties his organs
posted by Countess Elena at 2:51 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton Want to Catch Voters With Pokémon Go
Clinton delivered a timely Pokemon joke at a campaign stop in Annandale, Va. telling the crowd, “I don’t know who created Pokemon Go, but I’m trying to figure out how we get them to have Pokemon Go…to the polls.”

The Trump campaign decided it would one-up Clinton, posting a video to Facebook showing a mock-Pokemon Go game called “Crooked Hillary No,” in which a user attempts to catch clinton.
You can find the Trump video on his facebook but Gizmodo has you covered:
In the video a trainer captures the Democratic hopeful, who of course has a Combat Power of 1. Her type is listed as “Career Politician” which is apparently a bad thing. Hillary’s next evolution reads “Unemployed,” and there’s an entirely new stat called “Leaked Emails” that clocks in at 30,000. Because she did that thing that time. Remember?

While that’s an exceptionally high number for any monster stat, it remains unclear what effect, if any, it has during actual battle.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:53 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


[not advocating magical terror tea at all but I think I saw or read that story, maybe from King in his coke days]
posted by Countess Elena at 2:54 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


But the idea that this guy with absolutely no qualifications to be President is polling nearly equal with a former Senator and Secretary of State is a shameful reflection on the electorate.

Hopefully, the former Senator and Sect. of State has staff who are working on a good plan. Shaming voters didn't work for Gore or Kerry.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:00 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I remain amazed that any plan to defeat Trump whatsoever is required, but here we all are in this stupid society we have built.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:09 PM on July 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


“Republicans love strippers, so we’re just hoping to make some money.”

Back from the year 2000, when the Republicans came to Philadelphia:

SAFE SEX

The well-reported sexual indiscretions of various politicians have made conventioneers cautious. Local adult-entertainment workers reported no elephant sightings.

Joe Gold, who in the back of Philadelphia Weekly advertises a "sensual workout with a sensitive massage," said the convention fouled up his business. "A lot of people are scared to call me. There are cops at each hotel, and maybe the convention people are afraid they'll spot me coming inside to give them a massage or something."

Bill, from Show N Tell Adult Center & Show Bar on South Columbus Boulevard: "We were hoping for business from the convention, but we haven't had any."

Tina Suh, employee at Cherry Garden on North 12th Street, which offers customers "total relaxation": "Our manager got so mad, she left on vacation - lots of stress because of no customers."


And apparently they weren't good tippers, either:

"I ain't going to lie to you," said Bernie Ware, food-prep counter guy at the 12th Street Cantina in the Reading Terminal Market. "They don't tip well at all. We put out tip cups when there are big events in town. After the Flower Show, we got over $50 a day. This week, we've had $2 to $3."

Old City cabbie Essaid Naji complained that Republicans were taking shuttle buses instead of cabs. And the few delegates he did shuttle around were stingy with the bucks. "Midwest guys, talking on cell phones to their wives, said very little and were not good tippers. . . . Maybe one dollar, maybe two."

posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:16 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Rule 16 - the rule about the allocation and binding of delegates - is now being debated on the Rules Committee. Available on C-Span3, if anyone wants to follow along.
posted by corb at 3:24 PM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton Want to Catch Voters With Pokémon Go

"My fellow Americans: As a young boy I dreamed of being a baseball."

posted by Atom Eyes at 3:26 PM on July 14, 2016


So MSNBC reporting that Pence is on a plane to New York right now. But since it's 2016, I won't believe anything until I see a series of tweets and a link to flightaware.

Tweets, you say?
posted by Existential Dread at 3:29 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


and Jill "I was for Brexit before I was against it" Stein is a less than inspiring leader.

(IMO) it's even "better" than that--she's trying to gaslight people into believing she was against it (scroll down to the facebook screenshot).
posted by MikeKD at 3:33 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


NBC now also reporting confirmation of Pence.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:42 PM on July 14, 2016


CNN is reporting that it's official, Trump has called Pence and offered him the spot.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:43 PM on July 14, 2016


The first time his name came up, I did read it as "Prince confirmed as Trump running-mate", which... well... there was considerable cognitive dissonance until I realised it was just their bad font and my bad eyes.
posted by Devonian at 3:46 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


...and Sean Hannity will have the first interview with Pence on Friday night even though Hannity said he wouldn't be happy with anyone except Gingrich.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:47 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Available on C-Span3, if anyone wants to follow along.

Link
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:51 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Indianapolis Star is reporting that Pence has dropped his re-election campaign to be the Republic VP candidate.
Gov. Mike Pence is dropping his re-election bid in Indiana to become Donald Trump’s running mate.

IndyStar has confirmed that Trump plans to announce Pence as his selection for vice president, ending a weeks-long vice presidential casting call during which Trump vetted a handful of high-profile Republicans.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:51 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


this is about the most underwhelming choice I could realistically anticipate, so I'm happy
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:53 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Mike Pence Has Led The Fight Against Reproductive Rights For Half A Decade
Since Pence became governor of Indiana in 2013, he has signed multiple anti-abortion bills into law, including a measure that prohibits private insurance providers from offering abortion coverage. Under his leadership in 2015, Indiana experienced a devastating HIV outbreak, which was exacerbated by the closure of a Planned Parenthood clinic that was the only HIV testing center in the county. The clinic had closed due to Pence’s cuts to Planned Parenthood’s funding.

in March, Pence signed one of the worst anti-abortion omnibus bills in the country into law. Among other things, it requires doctors to offer women the “remains” of the fetus after an abortion.

Indiana women were so frustrated with Pence’s apparent preoccupation with their reproductive organs this year that they started a “Periods for Pence” campaign, giving him details of their menstrual cycles. One woman even invited Pence to her gynecologist appointment.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:54 PM on July 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Allow me to be the first to congratulate Indiana on getting rid of Mike "HIV Crisis" Pence. Now, let's do something about Tom Arnold Crean.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:55 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Also, there's the FIX THIS NOW thing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:57 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Pence voted for the Iraq War, so that's a plus.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:57 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I assume a lot of Democrats (/liberals/leftists/progressives/whatever) have reservations about Clinton's hawkish foreign policy - as I do. Kaine would be an interesting choice in that regard. He wants Congress to be more involved in military action, which would hopefully slow some of our involvement:
I have deep reservations about what Congress has not done in the 15 months this war has been going on...We're in an undeclared war that the president started on August 8, 2014 and that Congress has refused to debate and vote on it as the Constitution requires. But as the ISIL threat and this U.S. involvement continues to expand, I do think Congress is going to have to confront and really engage with the administration on what the strategy is and how much of it we are willing to authorize.
On the other hand, he's been advocating for increased intervention in Syria to protect refugees:
The UN Security Council passed a resolution in February 2014 calling for delivery of humanitarian aid inside Syria to the refugees there, and virtually nothing has been done about that. I have been along with some colleagues of both parties, one who suggested, "Look, with that Security Council resolution giving us a legal authority, I think we ought to be very vigorous in delivering aid into Syria to refugees there creating a safe space for them, even if that means it has to be enforced militarily." I think if we had done that, we wouldn't have seen 4 million people fleeing the country.
That second interview is worth reading in its entirety. He sounds a lot like Clinton - somebody who is steeped in the policy questions he's been asked to address and is trying to find a nuanced view to something without a clear solution. He advocates for increased military force in Syria, but he also advocates for increasing the number of refugees admitted into the United States. Clinton is (obviously) deeply interested in geopolitical stuff, and Kaine comes off as somebody who has the depth of knowledge - having sat on the foreign relations committee - to help serve her administration.

My guess is Kaine will be brought on, and the Clinton campaign will try to focus the rest of the election on foreign policy experience. Domestic stuff is so fraught and messy these days it would be hard to craft a single unifying message that will bring in the majority of swing voters. But her handling of foreign policy (combined with Kaine's experience in the Senate) is a no-brainer.
posted by one_bean at 4:00 PM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Indiana Gov. Mike Pence has close ties to Charles Koch's money network
But Pence’s possible addition to the Donald Trump ticket doesn't seem to have swayed Charles Koch, who has sharply criticized Trump’s harsh rhetoric and policies. Koch has opted to focus his federal political activity on helping Republicans retain their Senate majority instead of the presidential race. (In an interview with Fortune this week, Koch said choosing between Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton was like picking “cancer or a heart attack.”)
Mike Pence: A very telling congressional record
Before Mike Pence was bestowed the responsibility of governor of Indiana, he served six terms in Congress from 2001-2013. [snip]As a Republican member of Congress, Pence strongly opposed the Affordable Care Act and worked to decrease tax hikes. He worked to strongly limit reproductive rights, advocated for conservatism in traditional marriage, voted no on government bailouts and stimulus packages, and voted no for additional federal funding for education, amongst many other things.[snip]

On the issue of immigration, Pence worked in Congress to end birthright citizenship, a proposal that aimed to deny children automatic citizenship if they were born in the U.S. to illegal immigrant parents.
The article is quite extensive and worth a look. Pence has a 0 percent rating from HRC and an A+ from the NRA
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:06 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


It's Pence Or Not! In final hours, Trump's vice presidential picking process spins into circus of speculation
After word of Pence’s supposed selection began circulating, the Trump camp hastened to say nothing had been settled.

“A decision will be made in the near future and the announcement will be tomorrow at 11 a.m. in New York,” campaign Chairman Paul Manafort wrote on Twitter.

Trump’s son, Donald Jr., said on MSNBC that — despite reports to the contrary — his father was still choosing between Pence and two other finalists, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie.

He could end up picking someone else entirely, the junior Trump added. “You never know,” he said. “He’s still my dad.” [snip]

In a 16-minute video monologue Thursday on his Facebook page, Gingrich said Trump’s chief legal vetter, Washington lawyer A.B. Culvahouse, had asked him and his wife, Callista, 113 questions and required more than a decade of tax returns and a list of everything he’d ever written.
[My bold] Wow, Trump has some nerve.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:18 PM on July 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Trump cancelling his announcement tomorrow because of the attack in Nice, at first, feels like there's some sort of adult in charge over there at once.

But the more I've thought about it, the more I wonder if he really hasn't made up his mind yet.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 4:20 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


And no announcement.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 4m4 minutes ago
In light of the horrible attack in Nice, France, I have postponed tomorrow's news conference concerning my Vice Presidential announcement.
posted by Devonian at 4:21 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Translation: "Oh thank God I've got an excuse to milk this a little while longer."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:23 PM on July 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


I really thought there was a chance he would change his mind. I think at this point the Pence announcement has all the pop and sizzle of a wet firecracker.

Nice :(
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:26 PM on July 14, 2016


Due to that re-election deadline that Pence let slide today, if Trump decides against Pence at this point, there's a lot of people gonna be looking for blood.
posted by yesster at 4:27 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


That seems odd. I could understand if the press conference were in an hour or something but tomorrow? Doesn't make sense.
posted by Justinian at 4:27 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm not so sure that postponing the announcement is really the "adult in charge" move, unless it happens to be the same adults who let John McCain think suspending his campaign was the right move. This doesn't really rise to that same level but it's my instinctive basis for comparison due to the "hmm, really?" nature of my response. Not to minimize Nice but as Obama said (I'm paraphrasing probably) you have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time to be president.
posted by feloniousmonk at 4:28 PM on July 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Hey remember when McCain suspended his campaign

My memory's not what it used to be, but I think that was the winning stroke that brought him to the White House
posted by Existential Dread at 4:29 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I wonder if, as each candidate's name leaks out, Trump reads the reactions and changes his mind. He may have been talked into a decision deadline and done a Trump plump for Pence, but has used Nice (my god) as an excuse to renege.
posted by Devonian at 4:29 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


What a fucking goat rodeo.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:30 PM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


Oh wow, yes, if Pence gives up the governorship and Trump goes elsewhere afterwards, as I am inclined to think he will want to given the lukewarm response, it would be among the rattiest ratfucks ever.
posted by feloniousmonk at 4:30 PM on July 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Someone probably didn't want to share the news cycle.
posted by infinitewindow at 4:30 PM on July 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


Not to minimize Nice but as Obama said (I'm paraphrasing probably) you have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time to be president.

I wonder how long he is planning on postponing. And now I hate myself for wondering because a) 73 people just died and b) I feel like Trump is jerking us around.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:35 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I wonder how long he is planning on postponing.

Despite my sarcasm above, I think infinitewidow is right. Or maybe it's a blend of both, but probably the more important thing to Trump is to not let anything steal his thunder.

And now I hate myself for wondering because a) 73 people just died and b) I feel like Trump is jerking us around.

But that brings us back to the note above about being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. That's not just for presidents. You can be outraged and appalled by multiple things simultaneously. 2016 sure seems to be giving us all a ton of practice at that. :(
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:47 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


It would totally be in-character for fascist Trump to hang Pence out to dry, in punishment for his well-established anti-Trump comments earlier this year.
posted by yesster at 4:51 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


NPR is already going with Mike Pence as a done deal. Gosh, if we see more of that, I imagine Trump really might pull a switch just to reclaim the news cycle that the "dishonest media" has clearly stolen from him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:54 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Great news...for Omarosa!
posted by sallybrown at 4:54 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I truly do think Trump changed his mind again (maybe wavering back towards a show of "military might" by picking a general?), but he might change it back to Pence overnight, who knows.
posted by sallybrown at 4:56 PM on July 14, 2016


I think giving any human being a near-equal share of Trump's publicity will be the hardest thing he's ever done.
posted by mmoncur at 4:58 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I really think he’s going to wait until after Pence’s filing deadline passes in Indiana, then announce somebody else. Partly because Pence endorsed Cruz, but mostly because he can.
posted by nicepersonality at 5:10 PM on July 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


I really think he’s going to wait until after Pence’s filing deadline passes in Indiana, then announce somebody else. Partly because Pence endorsed Cruz, but mostly because he can.

If he was going to really fuck him he'd tell Pence to withdraw then announce someone else. If he waits until the deadline passes in Indiana then he'd have to give Pence the VP nod to fuck Republicans in the state.
posted by Talez at 5:14 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


maybe wavering back towards a show of "military might" by picking a general?

Of course it's going to be Flynn. The GOP base is going to vote for The Donald, he proved that in the primaries - now he needs to sway undecideds. An otherwise moderate-progressive Democrat who's a Hawk's Hawk and mildly anti-Immigration, who can say pithy, edgy things off the cuff is just what the doctor ordered, get that man a twitter account.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:18 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I wondered if yanking Pence around was a big Fuck You to the Koch brothers. After all there is little that Trump can do to them except screw over one of their pet monkeys.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:19 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Part of me has long suspected that Trump was never in this to win this, but has been frustrated by the positive reception he keeps getting. If he screws Pence over I'll be convinced.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:46 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I wondered if Trumps consideration of Flynn prompted Clinton to look at Stavridis. "I'll see your three-star general and raise you a four-star admiral."

(By the way, I think Stavidis would be excellent.)
posted by haiku warrior at 5:50 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tim Tebow just announced in a Facebook video that Trump's assertion Tebow is speaking at the GOP convention is just a "rumor" (and he threw a subtle "all lives matter"ish moment in there for funsies).

Nice trainwreck ya got there, Donald.
posted by sallybrown at 6:00 PM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Dear god. What's going to happen these next 4 months.
posted by cashman at 6:04 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


At this point, I'm convinced that the GOP's plan is to throw the presidential election and then run for and win every other office in the land on the claim that the President has no legitimacy because one party didn't field a serious candidate.
posted by infinitewindow at 6:08 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


The Rules Committee just voted to try to finish tonight. They have been working for 13 hours at this point. Looks like there may be enough for minority report - 32 rules members seem to be working in concert.
posted by corb at 6:09 PM on July 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


...We now have a Pirates of the Carribean reference. "This amendment is like the whirlpool that sucks the pirate ship down."
posted by corb at 6:13 PM on July 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


Trump supporters are trying to force a bundling of minority reports in an attempt to pick off minority report supporters.
posted by corb at 6:15 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


sallybrown: "Tim Tebow just announced in a Facebook video that Trump's assertion Tebow is speaking at the GOP convention is just a "rumor" "

What is even going on anymore? I have to imagine that the only way the NYT would have gotten a complete speaker list (and the themes per night) is because it was deliberately released to them by whoever's planning the convention. Why would the planners release a schedule before they've locked down all the speakers? And why would they announce it via a controlled "leak" rather than a standard press release?
posted by mhum at 6:15 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


At this point, I'm convinced that the GOP's plan is to throw the presidential election and then run for and win every other office in the land on the claim that the President has no legitimacy because one party didn't field a serious candidate.

If they get the County Sheriffs, they could dispense with Admiralty Law altogether.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:16 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thanks for the updates, corb! Keep em coming when you can!
posted by sallybrown at 6:16 PM on July 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Why would the planners release a schedule before they've locked down all the speakers?

Donald the Liar picked speakers who go back on their agreement to speak when they face too much blowback, perhaps? I can't imagine Tebow's evangelical fans (or other fans, really) had positive things to say about this choice...we'll see what Trump fires back in response (sigh).
posted by sallybrown at 6:19 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Or maybe Tebow went and bent a knee on a field somewhere and God told him to double-cross Trump.
posted by sallybrown at 6:24 PM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


Tebow is about to announce a third party run.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:25 PM on July 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I can't imagine Tebow's evangelical fans (or other fans, really) had positive things to say about this choice.

Oh how I wish that were true. Nearly Four-Fifths of White Evangelicals Say They’ll Vote for Donald Trump (NYT).

"Support for Mr. Trump among white evangelicals is even stronger than it was four years ago for Mitt Romney, the previous Republican nominee for president, according to the poll of religious voters, released on Tuesday by the Pew Research Center."
posted by gatorae at 6:25 PM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I suspect that they asked Tebow, and Tebow's people said "we'll think about it," and then they figured that if they announced that he was speaking, it would force him to speak. They think they're master negotiators, but they're really just posturing dingbats.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:26 PM on July 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Rabbi Haskel Lookstein was Head of School at the Orthodox Ramaz school in NYC for many years. A Ramaz graduate has posted a petition against his speaking at the Republican convention. The text and comments from former and current students are both worth reading.
posted by zarq at 6:27 PM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Or maybe they couldn't afford to host Tebow:

GOP Cleveland organizers beg Adelson for $6 million
posted by octobersurprise at 6:37 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


(And by "host" I mean get him a cheap hotel out in Lakewood.)
posted by octobersurprise at 6:39 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


It goes on to list the companies and wealthy individuals who have withdrawn their financial commitments. Among those who have canceled their donations, according to the letter, are David Koch ($1 million), FedEx ($500,000), Visa ($100,000) and both Pepsi ($500,000) and Coca-Cola ($1 million).

Perfect time to introduce TRUMP COLA. Finally we know what this whole campaign was really about.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:42 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Support for Mr. Trump among white evangelicals is even stronger than it was four years ago for Mitt Romney, the previous Republican nominee for president, according to the poll of religious voters, released on Tuesday by the Pew Research Center."

Which flabbergasts me. The only explanation I can come up with is that "white evangelical" has a huge overlap with "xenophobic bigot". What other possible reason is there for Trump's improvement over Romney's numbers?
posted by Justinian at 6:42 PM on July 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


sallybrown: "Donald the Liar picked speakers who go back on their agreement to speak when they face too much blowback, perhaps?"

ArbitraryAndCapricious: "I suspect that they asked Tebow, and Tebow's people said "we'll think about it," and then they figured that if they announced that he was speaking, it would force him to speak. "

These are both very plausible to me. The peculiar way that the organizers released the info makes me lean towards door number two, though.
posted by mhum at 6:42 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Incidentally, a grand total of zero people predicted a Mike Pence VP in the February metatalk thread. (There are two Kaines)

The Republican party is a rolling clown car which makes it very difficult to predict some of the less than obvious decisions they will make, they being so terrifyingly zany.

I would not be surprised to see Trump preemptively pardon Shkreli because somehow to the Republican base that's real justice and somehow makes perfect sense.
posted by juiceCake at 6:45 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Salt Lake Tribune: "The idea of voting for a Mormon was, in their mind, literally the equivalent of voting for a cult leader or someone who worships Satan. I think that was horrible; it shouldn't be, but there was that kind of sentiment," said the Rev. Greg Johnson, president of Standing Together, a network of 100 evangelical churches along the Wasatch Front. "With Trump, they don't look at him as a cult leader, and so they give him kind of a pass even though he's kind of a man who has supported abortion."
posted by Drinky Die at 6:47 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Conscience clause failed. Unless people were voting strategically to hide their numbers, there is not enough to support a minority report. We will have to take it to the floor ourselves.
posted by corb at 6:51 PM on July 14, 2016 [36 favorites]


Good luck, corb, and thank you for the updates.
posted by stolyarova at 6:53 PM on July 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


Tim Tebow just announced in a Facebook video that Trump's assertion Tebow is speaking at the GOP convention is just a "rumor"

Maybe he's the VP nom.

"With Trump, they don't look at him as a cult leader, and so they give him kind of a pass even though he's kind of a man who has supported abortion."

Evangelicals have forgiven many sins and many more sinners. The warm reception that mid-90s Newt Gingrich got was pretty telling — three wives, one of whom was a cancer survivor who was informed about the breakup in the hospital. Christ can clearly forgive a lot when He's in the Right mood.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:53 PM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


According to this Twitter thread, the private plane Pence was on was originally scheduled to land at Teterboro, then return immediately to Indianapolis. Instead it sat on the tarmac for hours, changed flight plans, and then headed instead to Mt. Comfort, IN (where there's another Indy-area airport). Who knows if he's on it, but...
posted by sallybrown at 6:54 PM on July 14, 2016


What other possible reason is there for Trump's improvement over Romney's numbers?

The few evangelicals I know would prefer a part-time, wishy-washy, cafeteria christian* over a devout Mormon.

*Personally, I don't think Trump even qualifies as this, but whatever.
posted by zakur at 6:55 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Maybe he's the VP nom.
This whole situation is so nuts that I thought for a second that you could be right. But nope, he's too young.

I wonder if Pence is going to refuse it when it becomes clear that Trump doesn't intend to commit in time.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:56 PM on July 14, 2016


The Onion, Who Is Mike Pence?:
Little-Known Fact: All
posted by kirkaracha at 7:00 PM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Or maybe Tebow went and bent a knee on a field somewhere and God told him to double-cross Trump.

that would get me back to church straightaway
posted by Flannery Culp at 7:01 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Evangelicals have forgiven many sins and many more sinners.

Well, evangelicals love them a good redemption narrative. The thing about a redemption narrative is, the more egregious the protagonist used to be, the better the story (cf. Ben Carson actually losing cred by not having as rebellious a childhood as he claimed). Although everybody likes to see folks turn their lives around, there's something to be said for people who weren't fuckups to begin with, but that category is boring. So it seems that the evangelical demographic actively seeks out people who make bad and selfish life choices, as long as they're pretty good at making contrite noises.
posted by jackbishop at 7:11 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


From the Nice thread: I am in horror. Guardian now reporting, "Donald Trump, who has postponed the unveiling of his vice presidential running mate in response to the attack in Nice, indicated he would be prepared to seek a formal declaration of war from the US Congress and commit ground troops to the conflict."

Where? Fucking Nice? We're already in Iraq.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:00 PM on July 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


On the Dem VP side - Yglesias thinks it might be Tom Vilsack.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:04 PM on July 14, 2016




Where? Fucking Nice? We're already in Iraq.

Syria. Probably over the strenuous objections of Syria and Russia. Or as those of us who know a little Biblical End Times theory, the two places usually pointed to as "Gog and Magog." You know, the two nations that go to war with Israel as part of Armageddon.

And every Christian in America either just wet their pants for joy or is even more scared than before.
posted by dw at 8:08 PM on July 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Deported where Newt?
posted by zutalors! at 8:09 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


The postponement is just so bizarre. Trump's postponement is a complete non sequitur if he is going to go with Pence as was already widely reported. I think he's going to impulsively dump Pence and go with Newt based on his fucking batshit statement tonight.
posted by gatorae at 8:10 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah postponing because of a foreign tragic event doesn't make any sense.
posted by zutalors! at 8:12 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


We have tragic events foreign and domestic basically every 5 days now.
posted by gatorae at 8:14 PM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


What other possible reason is there for Trump's improvement over Romney's numbers?

Romney was a milquetoast mannequin, Trump's a braying ass, Americans tend to dig the latter over the former whenever given the choice.
posted by Greg Nog at 8:15 PM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


right, but several campaign events were postponed because of Orlando and Dallas, which seems appropriate because of optics, having the right tone etc.
posted by zutalors! at 8:16 PM on July 14, 2016


Shock Doctrine 2: Shock Harder
posted by tonycpsu at 8:18 PM on July 14, 2016


The postponement is just so bizarre.

I think it makes sense if you consider that Pence is the guy who will make republican insiders and donors happy, and seeing that Pence is on a deadline with his declaring his reelection campaign in Indiana, Donald can use a delay to extort concessions from the RNC and from donors. He can use this delay to pretend to be thinking of a wildcard to ask for commitments from donors, surrogates, RNC fundraisers, or access to the party's ground operation. He's a conman, it's all part of the game for him.
posted by peeedro at 8:21 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I will bet nine dollars that Trump fires and replaces his running mate at least once after the convention
posted by theodolite at 8:22 PM on July 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Apparently, Indiana GOP insiders are saying that if Pence withdraws tomorrow, they can just appoint him as the nominee later if Trump goes with someone else. It would be pretty humiliating, though.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:37 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Rules Committee finally closes at 11:30pm. The Trump forces joined with Priebus's forces to whip the vote. They have successfully ratfucked the rules in their favor.

There are still chances to fight him on the floor, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disheartened. Every time I see people argue for "unity" over this fucker I am astounded and horrified.
posted by corb at 8:39 PM on July 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


I'm disheartened as well, but the party that invented ratfucking is ratfucking, and party loyalists are voting for the nominee that got the most votes in the party's primary. This is the system functioning as intended.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:49 PM on July 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't know what to say anymore. I'm just... This... It's just too fucking stupid. Even for Newt.

Someone once wrote that Newt Gingrich is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person is.

I see no reason to disagree with this assessment.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:55 PM on July 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


Right now Trump is making an aide check, for the fifth time today, if he really needs to have a vice president after all
posted by theodolite at 9:03 PM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Hmmm. Does he? The 12th Amendment says the Electoral College will vote for a VP. But there's nothing that says the GOP needs to nominate a candidate. The electors could vote Trump, and then whomever they wish as a VP.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:09 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


There's no way he'd let someone else make that choice for him, and deny him his rabbit-out-of-the-top-hat moment of universal attention.
posted by Superplin at 9:13 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


No, no, of course he wouldn't. I'm just interested in edge case "but what if?" type scenarios.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:18 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Well, this makes me feel a little better at least.
New NBC/WSJ/Marist polls:
CO: Clinton 43, Trump 35
FL: Clinton 44, Trump 37
NC: Clinton 44, Trump 38
VA: Clinton 44, Trump 35
posted by Existential Dread at 9:30 PM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Oh god please please please be the accurate poll.
posted by Justinian at 9:35 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Stop watching polls. Start registering voters.
posted by dersins at 9:37 PM on July 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


No, no, of course he wouldn't. I'm just interested in edge case "but what if?" type scenarios.

Democrats would win a plurality of votes in all states for the VP which would mean a Democratic VP.
posted by Talez at 9:39 PM on July 14, 2016


"Donald Trump, who has postponed the unveiling of his vice presidential running mate in response to the attack in Nice, indicated he would be prepared to seek a formal declaration of war from the US Congress and commit ground troops to the conflict."

France is our ally but Trump does realize they're not part of the USA right? I mean, we typically don't declare war and commit ground troops over this sort of attack on our allies unless they've declared war first and they've asked us. I'm no expert on foreign policy so I could be wrong, but Trump sounds like a crazy person. Again.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:40 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Phlegmco(tm): "Someone once wrote that Newt Gingrich is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person is."

Which makes him a perfect match for Trump who someone else (or maybe the same someone, I dunno) called a stupid person's idea of how a rich person is.
posted by mhum at 9:50 PM on July 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


France is our ally but Trump does realize they're not part of the USA right?

Well, France is a NATO member, so Trump could declare war because on the principle of collective defense. But Trump has stated interest in having the US leave NATO. So, it's just typical Trump that doesn't make any sense.
posted by FJT at 9:56 PM on July 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Stop watching polls. Start registering voters.

I just ordered a big, fat stack of voter registration forms. I figure I'll keep them just inside my front door, and anyone who stops to talk to me while I'm working in the yard will be offered a form and, if necessary, help filling it out and a stamp.

If nothing else, this'll make me hate weeding a little less.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 10:09 PM on July 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


The postponement is just so bizarre.

Yeah postponing because of a foreign tragic event doesn't make any sense.


My guess is he simply doesn't want to share his VP choice news cycle with another story.
posted by homunculus at 11:07 PM on July 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Someone once wrote that Newt Gingrich is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person is."

Which makes him a perfect match for Trump who someone else (or maybe the same someone, I dunno) called a stupid person's idea of how a rich person is.


John Mulaney: Donald Trump is what a hobo imagines a rich man to be.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:12 PM on July 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


My guess is he simply doesn't want to share his VP choice news cycle with another story.

Why was the original announcement made for a Friday, though, then? Friday is, as peeedro notes upthread, traditionally the day when you announce things that you don't want anybody paying attention to. Plus, he was always likely to be the main story anyway, given that the whole weekend is going to be breathless anticipation of what the convention will be like.

(Not that it's fair to ask you, or anybody, about Trump's reasoning for anything, goodness knows. But it was peculiar timing anyway, even before the postponement, is my point.)
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:18 PM on July 14, 2016


Friday is, as peeedro notes upthread, traditionally the day when you announce things that you don't want anybody paying attention to.

Zombie Scalia.

When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:51 PM on July 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Pence has until noon today to file for reelection. So the best possible outcome would be for Trump to choose one of the other villains sometime this afternoon. My dream is for Mike Pence to discover for himself what a pain in the ass it is to file for unemployment in Indiana.
posted by double block and bleed at 1:26 AM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


Can't he just file and withdraw later if Trump does choose him?
posted by moody cow at 2:06 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yes, he can.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:56 AM on July 15, 2016


Nope. According to Indiana law, you can't run for two offices at the same time. The deadline to withdraw from the governors race is tomorrow, and he can't appear on the ballot as VP candidate if he doesn't withdraw by 11:00 local time tomorrow. He could withdraw and then be appointed his own replacement.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:01 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ah, ok, thanks. I guess not filing and if his VP candidacy falls through followed by him vying to be/being appointed as his own replacement wouldn't look too good to the electorate. But then again, I guess anyone aligning themselves with Trump has no shame left.
posted by moody cow at 3:17 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hopefully, he would be so politically damaged that they would have to choose someone else.
posted by double block and bleed at 3:18 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]




This is a terrific longread (VERY long) from ProPublica: The Great Republican Crack-up, a story about Dayton, Ohio and how conditions on the ground there have shifted from tradition to Trump.
posted by MonkeyToes at 4:47 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Donald Trump is what a hobofool imagines a rich man to be.

The first person in MonkeyToes' longread identifies Trump as someone who, due to his personal success, can fix what's wrong with America today. A total failure in logic. Trump is personally successful BECAUSE of what's wrong with America today, and taking his personal ethos to Washington will benefit no one but himself. And considering his total disloyalty toward those who worked with him in the past, his supporters now are likely to suffer some of the worst effects of his Presidency. And among Americans, they are those who most deserve it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:07 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


POOR MAN’S RICH MAN / DUMB MAN’S SMART MAN 2016
posted by nicepersonality at 5:16 AM on July 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


Frankly, I fundamentally do not want to hear Gingrich's annoying "frankly" and "fundamentally" verbal ticks for several years.
posted by zakur at 5:44 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


A certain number of the disengaged insist that Trump isn’t really as bad as all that. And there may indeed be another universe in which Donald Trump is one more blowhard billionaire with mixed-up politics but a basically benevolent heart, a Ross Perot type, or perhaps more like Arnold Schwarzenegger, preaching some confused combination of populism and self-help and doomed to flounder when he comes to power. This would not be the worst thing imaginable. Unfortunately, that universe is not this one. Trump is unstable, a liar, narcissistic, contemptuous of the basic norms of political life, and deeply embedded among the most paranoid and irrational of conspiracy theorists. There may indeed be a pathos to his followers’ dreams of some populist rescue for their plights. But he did not come to political attention as a “populist”; he came to politics as a racist, a proponent of birtherism...
Being Honest About Trump
posted by y2karl at 5:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


Gingrich: We should frankly test every person here who is of a Muslim background, and if they believe in Sharia, they should be deported.

Who writes the test?

Who administers the test and how are they paid? Is this process done in a courtroom or at a police station? Is it a verbal test or written and how many witnesses are required?

How do you find the people to be tested? Define Muslim background. Do you have to be a practicing Muslim or is it according to birth and if it is by birth how far back do we trace ancestry?

What legal recourse do the tested have? Can they change their mind at any time? Is a mental health check required? What about the presence of alcohol or drugs in the system? Can the test be administered to someone in the hospital? What about U.S. citizens abroad or serving in the military?

What happens to underage children? If the parents are deported what happens to the children? What happens if a 17 year old wants to stay or a 12 year old?

Where do you put the people who do not pass? Where do you send them? Again, how is all this getting paid for?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 AM on July 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


Talez: "Democrats would win a plurality of votes in all states for the VP which would mean a Democratic VP."

I'm not so sure. In most (all?) states you pick a ticket - Obama & Biden. You don't get separate votes for each position. So if Trump-[TBD] beats out Clinton-Kaine the electors go and vote Trump prez, and then pick whatever VP they care to.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:15 AM on July 15, 2016


Deport them where, Newt?

Don't be silly. If they're American citizens, you put them in camps until they pass the purity test. If they don't, they can be put to work on the land, picking cotton, or given to hard-working white folks as personal servants. They can't be subsidised on the taxpayer's dime forever, now.
posted by Devonian at 6:27 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Talez: We should frankly test every person here who is of a Muslim background, and if they believe in Sharia, they should be deported.

No one expects the American Inquisition.
posted by clawsoon at 6:27 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


no, at this point I'm expecting it
posted by ryanrs at 6:32 AM on July 15, 2016 [49 favorites]


Tebow not speaking at convention.
posted by PenDevil at 6:44 AM on July 15, 2016


Nope. According to Indiana law, you can't run for two offices at the same time. The deadline to withdraw from the governors race is tomorrow, and he can't appear on the ballot as VP candidate if he doesn't withdraw by 11:00 local time tomorrow.

I expect that if he pressed suit that statute would be unconstitutional to apply to a federal office; under _US Term Limits v Thornton_ anyway the Court agreed that the only way to create new qualifications for office (such as "you have not served X terms or more" or "you are not running for another office") was by constitutional amendment and that a qualification necessary to appear on the ballot was equivalent to a qualification for the office itself.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:46 AM on July 15, 2016


Hey, if Trump and/or Republican donors want to throw their money away on yet another lawsuit, I'm ready to cheer that on.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:49 AM on July 15, 2016


I expect that if he pressed suit that statute would be unconstitutional to apply to a federal office; under _US Term Limits v Thornton_ anyway the Court agreed that the only way to create new qualifications for office (such as "you have not served X terms or more" or "you are not running for another office") was by constitutional amendment and that a qualification necessary to appear on the ballot was equivalent to a qualification for the office itself.

But I take it the issue wouldn't be his eligibility for the VP slot but his eligibility for the Governorship of Ohio.
posted by dis_integration at 7:01 AM on July 15, 2016


I understood the query earlier in the thread to be "If he files for the governorship and withdraws, can he appear as a VP candidate even though he filed for governor?"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:05 AM on July 15, 2016


Indiana. I mean, Indiana. Ohio is a better state. (*ducks*)
posted by dis_integration at 7:07 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


dis_integration, having grown up in Indiana and now residing in Ohio for the last 19 years, I can attest that Ohio is the better state.

(I KID, I KID)
posted by cooker girl at 7:09 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tebow not speaking at convention.

That cracks me up even though I'm not surprised- for all the talk about what a fundie Tebow is, he has mostly steered clear of controversial stuff. He spends his time hosting various entertainment and reality-TV shows, and working with his foundation on nice, wholesome stuff like Night to Shine and Orphan Care. I was really scratching my head at why he'd want to get into the whole Trump scene, and turns out, he doesn't. Can't wait to hear Trump's excuses on what happened.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:09 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


John Kasich to address NAACP convention in Cleveland July 17.

He's not attending the RNC just down the road. (cite)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:17 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


John Kasich to address NAACP convention in Cleveland July 17

I'm cringing just thinking about it
posted by zutalors! at 7:21 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I feel ashamed and afraid that there is even the slightest possibility that, as a country, we will begin persecuting an entire group of people based on their religion. It sickens me.
posted by defenestration at 7:24 AM on July 15, 2016 [38 favorites]


Remember that quote from a conservative writer (who?) condemning a Trump candidacy and arguing for Clinton because while she is wrong about everything she's wrong within normal parameters? I've thought Kasich would be an acceptable president not because I agree with him but at least he's within reasonable bounds and actually believes government should function. I'm kind of not surprised at this point that he'd address the NAACP over the convention. He's making a point.
posted by R343L at 7:24 AM on July 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


as a country, we will begin persecuting an entire group of people based on their religion. It sickens me.

all those things are unconstitutional and impossible to implement.
posted by zutalors! at 7:26 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Remember that quote from a conservative writer (who?)

PJ O'Rourke
posted by cooker girl at 7:27 AM on July 15, 2016



Remember that quote from a conservative writer (who?)


PJ O'Rourke
posted by zutalors! at 7:27 AM on July 15, 2016


Now for something lighter (and tastier) RNC 2016: Mitchell's Ice Cream serving Donald Trump, Republican-inspired flavors
In honor of next week's RNC, the beloved local ice cream chain has added four new menu items, including a zingy Donald Trump-inspired You're Fired sorbet made with passion fruit and jalapeno.

Also on the menu is the tasty Elephant Tracks, which has "the big-tent appeal of chocolate peanut butter ice cream with Spanish peanuts and fudge brownie pieces."

The Gipper sundae comes with red raspberry topping over vanilla bean ice cream and a side of Ronald Reagan's favorite Jelly Bellies. "Reminds some of old movies, a beloved grandfather, morning in America, and a simpler time" says the menu.
I hate to say it but the Trump sorbet is sounding pretty tasty at this moment.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:29 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]




all those things are unconstitutional and impossible to implement.

So were the Japanese internment camps during WWII, but yet....

And that was the otherwise-reasonable FDR.

People will permit super, super fucked up shit to be done in their collective name when they're afraid of "the enemy."
posted by dersins at 7:31 AM on July 15, 2016 [36 favorites]


defenestration: I feel ashamed and afraid that there is even the slightest possibility that, as a country, we will begin persecuting an entire group of people based on their religion. It sickens me.

zutalors!: all those things are unconstitutional and impossible to implement.

Who needs formal implementation when you can create change through dispersed acts of violence by the general populace? Anyway, just the threat is enough to make Muslim Students Fear They’d Get Deported, Incarcerated Under A President Trump, which is chilling enough on its own.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


all those things are unconstitutional and impossible to implement.

Japanese-Americans probably thought the same thing during WW2. The next president will likely appoint enough USSC judges to create a majority that will last for a generation. What is constitutional is terrifyingly fluid.
posted by gatorae at 7:32 AM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Most wishy-washy endorsement of Trump's potential for change of the week: Ryan Says He Believes Trump Is 'Going To Endeavor To Try' To Change (NPR, July 15, 2016) - that's four levels of uncertainty ("Ryan says he believes1 that Trump is going to2 endeavor to3 try to4 change").
posted by filthy light thief at 7:34 AM on July 15, 2016 [50 favorites]


A lot of the things that happened during World War II, like the Japanese internment, would not happen now. Social media is a thing. Cell phone cameras are a thing. Riots are a thing. Protests are a thing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:34 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yes, but it's really simplistic and defeating to just get keep repeating about how we're all sick about what's going to happen to other groups of people because some loudmouth, dangerous people have taken center stage here. It's just another way to foment the same fears without thinking critically about what's really happening, which to me at this moment is more about dangerous rhetoric than dangerous policy.

And like "this other thing happened to brown people" isn't a really good or thoughtful counterexample.
posted by zutalors! at 7:34 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


NPR: Ryan Says He Believes Trump Is 'Going To Endeavor To Try' To Change

The hilarious part of this is when Inskeep tries to get Ryan to commit to whether he thinks Trump would be a "good president". Rough transcript-

Inskeep- "When Republican's who've endorsed Donald Trump are asked about Trump, it's common for them to say 'well, whatever reservations I may have he'd be a better president than Hillary Clinton,' you've said that. So let's take that as a given that point of view, but let me take Hillary Clinton out of the equation for a moment. Standing on his own, would Donald Trump be a good president of the United States?"

Ryan- "That's not the question we have in front of us, we have a binary choice. It's either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. So what's the point of entertaining hypotheticals that do not exist? That's not the question we're facing, we're facing-"

Inskeep- "Well it's not a hypothetical, he could be elected! Would he be a good president?"

Ryan- "He...We're facing Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump and I do believe Donald Trump would be a far better president than Hillary Clinton. I think Donald Trump will pick better Supreme Court justices. I think Donald Trump will sign better legislation into law that gets our country on a better path than Hillary Clinton. That's the choice in front of us, and that is why I'm supporting Donald Trump."
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:36 AM on July 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


Paul Ryan's Advice For Donald Trump's Running Mate: 'Get Thick Skin'
Ryan also encouraged the vice presidential pick to "get a little outside [his] comfort zone" and scripted rallies and "speak with nontraditional voters who aren't used to seeing Republicans and who haven't heard our message."

"[Go] to the minority communities. Go into the inner cities. Go into bastions of Democrats and present your case," Ryan continued. "Give people in this country a flavor of what our ideas look like."
And yet somehow I think the people already know the "flavor" of their ideas, the GOP is not shy about where they stand on women's rights, LGBT rights, safety nets, Obamacare, Environmental protection, Global warming, etc.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:36 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ryan Says He Believes Trump Is 'Going To Endeavor To Try' To Change

"Lisa, I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."
posted by saturday_morning at 7:39 AM on July 15, 2016 [33 favorites]


Remember that quote from a conservative writer (who?:)

PJ O'Rourke
posted by y2karl at 7:43 AM on July 15, 2016


Cell phone cameras are a thing. Riots are a thing. Protests are a thing.

All of which have been used to try and force police to stop executing innocent black people with no effect, even though murder is still nominally illegal. Imagine how little good they'll do with a Trump-appointed SCOTUS justice or three rubber-stamping his abuses.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:43 AM on July 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


All of which have been used to try and force police to stop executing innocent black people with no effect

I mean, I will disagree with you, respectfully. There has been an enormous change in this country's consciousness about Black lives in the past two years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:45 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


A lot of the things that happened during World War II, like the Japanese internment, would not happen now. Social media is a thing. Cell phone cameras are a thing. Riots are a thing. Protests are a thing.

Guantanamo is still a thing.

Despite all those other things existing.
posted by zarq at 7:45 AM on July 15, 2016 [20 favorites]


"Lisa, I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

$deity bless Frinkiac.
posted by fedward at 7:46 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Amazingly good quotes in that NPR piece from Ryan. I'm honestly kind of optimistic about him as a leader. Note the section about practical welfare reform. It's clear he's grappling with the economic and social reality of implementing his ideology and having to work out improvements (at least over what a tea party republican would want.)
posted by R343L at 7:46 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I mean, I will disagree with you, respectfully. There has been an enormous change in this country's consciousness about Black lives in the past two years.

Yes, there has. But the police are still killing people on the street with no legal consequences.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:46 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


(Also insert image of John Boehner sipping tea.)
posted by R343L at 7:47 AM on July 15, 2016


A lot of the things that happened during World War II, like the Japanese internment, would not happen now. Social media is a thing. Cell phone cameras are a thing. Riots are a thing. Protests are a thing.

We had the biggest protests in history against the Iraq War. I guess that's why it didn't happen...

Oh wait...
posted by Talez at 7:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


Donald Trump’s R.N.C. Lineup Isn’t Actually Full of Winners
After he announced last month that his convention was going to be a “winners’ night,” in addition to reports that he had an in with renowned sports agent Ari Emanuel, what were we to expect? Without Tebow, there is no winning. Now apparently, even Bobby Knight will be a no show, though the legendary basketball coach will reportedly video-conference in, along with failed presidential candidate Marco Rubio. So which “great sports people,” as suggested by Trump, will actually be in attendance? Hold onto your hats, folks: Natalie Gulbis, the 484th best female golfer in the world, is scheduled to show up for Trump, as is U.F.C. president Dana White.

Beyond these top-notch members of the sports world, the Trump clan will of course be in attendance in what promises to be a Brady Bunch–style showing. And Trump’s former primary rivals Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, and Mike Huckabee are expected to speak, as are the arguably reluctant Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell—the latter of whom is set to introduce the nominee’s 22-year-old daughter, Tiffany Trump. With this golden ticket of a convention lineup, it’s hard to even imagine the winners a President Trump would pick for his cabinet.
See I think this is very good news because it is more proof that he hasn't a hope in hell of getting elected. This plus the dismal financial report that will be released on Wednesday will be proof that we don't have to worry about living in Trump's America.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Is White even still president of UFC after the company was sold?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:49 AM on July 15, 2016


And like "this other thing happened to brown people" isn't a really good or thoughtful counterexample.

Not sure I agree with you, and the "brown people" crack is kind of a cheap shot.

I believe " hey, this very similar, equally illegal, and equally unconstitutional thing happened right here when the American people felt threatened enough by an enemy to demonize everyone who looked like that enemy" seems like pretty reasonable evidence to use in support of the thesis that "Yes, it can happen here, so don't be too complacent."
posted by dersins at 7:49 AM on July 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


A lot of the things that happened during World War II, like the Japanese internment, would not happen now. Social media is a thing. Cell phone cameras are a thing. Riots are a thing. Protests are a thing.

Is it your contention that Japanese internment was done with great secrecy
posted by beerperson at 7:49 AM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


the glib style of political blogs is a thing
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:50 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is it your contention that Japanese internment was done with great secrecy

No, sorry if it came out that way.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on July 15, 2016




I am pleased to announce that I have chosen Governor Mike Pence as my Vice Presidential running mate. News conference tomorrow at 11:00 A.M.

This was a good response.
posted by zarq at 7:53 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


"Lisa, I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."

$deity bless Frinkiac.


What a time to be alive
posted by saturday_morning at 7:55 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


This was a good response.

This one was pretty good too. (Pence's tweet from 2015)
posted by cashman at 7:57 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Saturday morning press conference?
posted by zutalors! at 7:58 AM on July 15, 2016


BREAKING NEWS: Mike Pence names Carly Fiorina as his running mate
posted by peeedro at 7:59 AM on July 15, 2016 [25 favorites]


So Trump postponed the announcement out of "respect" and then did it anyway?
posted by zachlipton at 8:00 AM on July 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


Well, he just tweeted. The news conference will be tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:01 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


As if anyone pays attention to Donald Trump's twitter stream
posted by beerperson at 8:02 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think Pence called his bluff and he realized he didn't have a Plan B.
posted by fedward at 8:02 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


So Trump postponed the announcement out of "respect" and then did it anyway?

He had no choice. Pence was facing a noon deadline to withdraw from the Indiana governor's race. If he didn't withdraw in time, the state's Republican leaders wouldn't have been able to select a replacement candidate
posted by zarq at 8:03 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


I mean, the headlines would have read, "Trump picks VP candidate. Loses Indiana."
posted by zarq at 8:05 AM on July 15, 2016


That tweet definitely hits the right note of solemnity after the attack.
posted by gatorae at 8:05 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


The way D. Trump plays with the media would make a nightmare as President. It's unimaginable. Would he announce that America is going to war on his twitter feed? Would he postpone the State of the Union only to call it in a few hours later?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:06 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]




Mike Pence looks like your friend's dad whose house you didn't want to hang out at cause he was always angry.
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:09 AM on July 15, 2016 [41 favorites]


Would he announce that America is going to war on his twitter feed?

"Tell that guy in the press office to create a beautiful mushroom cloud emoji for me."
posted by zarq at 8:09 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Pence is exactly the kind of owned-by-industry career politician the hardcore Trump people hate. The only thing he's nationally famous for is signing a patently illegal anti-gay law and then immediately capitulating to the "PC police." It's a weird choice.
posted by theodolite at 8:11 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


The only explanation I can come up with is that "white evangelical" has a huge overlap with "xenophobic bigot".

You didn't know this? Some us are reminded of this every time we go to a large family function, sad to say.
posted by aught at 8:15 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Pence is exactly the kind of owned-by-industry career politician the hardcore Trump people hate. The only thing he's nationally famous for is signing a patently illegal anti-gay law and then immediately capitulating to the "PC police." It's a weird choice.

I think it's not too weird--okay, let's say not too inexplicable, it definitely is weird--for exactly those reasons. Trump gets to tack towards the mainstream, while still giving a wink and a smile to the fringe. Win win.
posted by Krom Tatman at 8:18 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


zarq: This response to that Tweet you shared is horrifying to me. Does a significant chunk of the American populace now consider Putin one of the good ole manly men, or is this misleading?
posted by rorgy at 8:23 AM on July 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


That tweet definitely hits the right note of solemnity after the attack.

It's very pencive.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:23 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I feel ashamed and afraid that there is even the slightest possibility that, as a country, we will begin persecuting an entire group of people based on their religion.

Begin? I mean, maybe you could claim we don't do this officially in the sense that it's written down somewhere, but that would only barely qualify when you consider trying to fly while wearing non-Christian headwear. Unofficially we've been persecuting anyone non-Christian for as long as I have been alive.
posted by phearlez at 8:24 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


Does a significant chunk of the American populace now consider Putin one of the good ole manly men, or is this misleading?

Trump sure loves him.
posted by beerperson at 8:25 AM on July 15, 2016


Does a significant chunk of the American populace now consider Putin one of the good ole manly men, or is this misleading?

2014: Why U.S. conservatives love Russia’s Vladimir Putin, Vladimir Putin and Benjamin Netanyahu in the top 10 most admired in U.S. Why?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:27 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Does a significant chunk of the American populace now consider Putin one of the good ole manly men, or is this misleading?

Putin is to the American far right is what Hugo Chavez was to the left.
posted by theodolite at 8:31 AM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Does a significant chunk of the American populace now consider Putin one of the good ole manly men, or is this misleading?

I think mainstream American conservatives have a love-hate relationship with Putin because his image is manly but his country's foreign policy directly opposes their country's foreign policy. That response puts Nigel Farage on the same level as the actual leader of a country, so I think it must come from some alt-right twerp.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:35 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


The only thing he's nationally famous for is signing a patently illegal anti-gay law

Don't forget the law mandating funerals for fetuses.

A trumppence for your tampons!
posted by Dashy at 8:37 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]




2013, Indianapolis Monthly: INcoming: Mike Pence
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:45 AM on July 15, 2016


rorgy: zarq: This response to that Tweet you shared is horrifying to me. Does a significant chunk of the American populace now consider Putin one of the good ole manly men, or is this misleading?

As 'the man of twists and turns' notes, he's big in Conservative circles. Part of this is anti-Obama rhetoric. Part of it is Conservative's desperate desire for an authoritarian leader. Part of it is respect for what Putin has accomplished in Russia. But some of it is probably rooted in Putin's focus on Christianity and Russia as a Christian country. "In his speeches he presents himself as defender of Christian values abandoned by the degenerate West."

They may not feel that way for long, though. Putin signed a bill outlawing evangelism this week. "Russian evangelicals are expressing alarm in light of President Vladmir Putin's signing of a so-called anti-terrorism law last Thursday that imposes harsh restrictions on religious freedom by banning religious gatherings in homes as well as evangelism and missionary activities."
posted by zarq at 8:45 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Also, that image was disgusting.
posted by zarq at 8:46 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


A few easy digital things Trump's team didn't do before announcing Pence:

It's like they literally don't have a campaign operation. Because every single one of those things are so blatantly obvious that even a social media team that exists just to rip off white supremacist memes should have been able to figure it out.

And not having a fundraising email ready to go with the announcement? Middle school class presidential campaigns are more organized than that.
posted by zachlipton at 8:52 AM on July 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


I think Pence, who has quite a record of being anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ, anti humane prison treatment, and anti-immigrant, plus being a super white tea party guy, is right up Trump's alley. What I find extraordinary is the media commentary that he is a cautious choice. To me Pence looks like the lead character for a real life The Handmaid's Tale.
posted by bearwife at 8:52 AM on July 15, 2016 [36 favorites]


A few easy digital things Trump's team didn't do before announcing Pence:

"And another thing: In Trump's initial tweet, he didn't tag @mike_pence so his nearly 10 million followers could follow his VP."
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:52 AM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


BREAKING NEWS: Carly Fiorina names Chuck Norris as running mate.
posted by y2karl at 8:55 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy: Where do you put the people who do not pass? Where do you send them? Again, how is all this getting paid for?

All of the problems you raise were solved 800 years ago. Geez, man, this stuff is not hard.
posted by clawsoon at 8:56 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm still pretty shell-shocked from the Rules Committee hearing, but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't say - I still believe in not forcing people to act against their conscience, as a matter of conscience. But I no longer believe most of or even much of Republican leadership feels the same way. You can't call for religious and conscience exemption for people who can't morally support abortion, but not conscience exemption for people who can't morally support Donald Trump. Or rather, you can, but it's obvious you don't give a flying fuck about the principle.
posted by corb at 8:59 AM on July 15, 2016 [58 favorites]


What I find extraordinary is the media commentary that he is a cautious choice.

Given that the other options were Less-Popular Wormtongue, General Ripper, and Wife-Abandoning Moon Inhabitant?
posted by saturday_morning at 9:02 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


What I find extraordinary is the media commentary that he is a cautious choice.

It's all in the context. Trump picked someone he's not related to, who has experience as an elected official! How could you be any more cautious than that?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:03 AM on July 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


corb, I have enormous respect for what you are doing and you're willingness to continue to work with principles within an increasingly odious situation. Hopefully the shell-shock will pass enough that you can keep doing the important work.
posted by meinvt at 9:03 AM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


even a social media team that exists just to rip off white supremacist memes should have been able to figure it out.

I'm trying to remember a time when this would have been a hyperbolic metaphor and it seems so long ago.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:05 AM on July 15, 2016 [29 favorites]


You can't call for religious and conscience exemption for people who can't morally support abortion, but not conscience exemption for people who can't morally support Donald Trump.

I've always been more toward the "no, delegates should vote as they are bound because democracy" camp, but this is an interesting way of thinking about it. It's the end of western civilization if a pharmacist can't follow his conscience and is required to dispense emergency contraception or a baker can't throw out a gay couple, but that doesn't apply to how delegates can vote?
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


some deep-seated part of my brain is convinced that the Leverage team is going to show up eventually. please.
posted by you're a kitty! at 9:09 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


What other possible reason is there for Trump's improvement over Romney's numbers?

The Mormons. Really. The fundamentalists despise Mormons. The bad blood goes way back, and I always figured it was jealousy of LDS's effectiveness. They've got the money and discipline the fundies lack.

Why do I think this? Growing up in Texas. My family is LDS. It was an object lesson in othering.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 9:10 AM on July 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


So uh

can we talk about the trump/pence logo
posted by saturday_morning at 9:10 AM on July 15, 2016 [39 favorites]


Trump/Pence: You're Damn Right We're Not Letting The "Small Hands" Thing Drop
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:12 AM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Mike Pence looks like your friend's dad whose house you didn't want to hang out at cause he was always angry.

I've always thought he was the spitting image of Hank Hill's horrible dad, Cotton Hill.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:12 AM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


You can't call for religious and conscience exemption for people who can't morally support abortion, but not conscience exemption for people who can't morally support Donald Trump.

As with Kim Davis in Kentucky, you can either do your job as required by the law or rules or you can resign. You don't get to pick and choose.
posted by JackFlash at 9:12 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Forget the logo, what's with the typography there? Trump and Pence have the same number of letters. Why are they all misaligned?
posted by zachlipton at 9:13 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


can we talk about the trump/pence logo

I... have no words.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:13 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


can we talk about the trump/pence logo

It's very...penetrating. Also, hilarious that they're the TP ticket. The poop jokes write themselves!
posted by zombieflanders at 9:14 AM on July 15, 2016 [33 favorites]


corb: Or rather, you can, but it's obvious you don't give a flying fuck about the principle.

They've given you a gift.

Mike Pence is an extremely close ideological match to Ted Cruz. Republicans have quite literally given Trump a partner on the ticket who is Ted Cruz in nearly every respect, but doesn't have Cruz' extensive antagonistic history with his fellow Republicans. Pence is a palatable Cruz.

They've done this before, with George W. Bush. Bush was considered an ignorant mental lightweight by the Republican base. So he was paired with elder statesman Cheney, and Republican voters were reassured. The VP would handle legislative matters. We have already been hearing rumors for weeks that Trump only wants to win, not govern. It's the same playbook, a decade and a half later.
posted by zarq at 9:14 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


The T is penetrating the P in that logo. Also TP is toilet paper. I has no hope for merica.
posted by localhuman at 9:14 AM on July 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


can we talk about the trump/pence logo

Trump/Pence: We'll Stick a T in your P!
posted by leotrotsky at 9:14 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


As a logo, it’s kind of meh, but you need to see it in its full context as a motion graphic.
posted by nicepersonality at 9:15 AM on July 15, 2016 [26 favorites]


Voters: Yeah, that's about what it feels like.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:15 AM on July 15, 2016


I noticed I've got an earworm, and realised that what was going through my brain was:

Half a pound of trumpency rice,
Half a pound of treacle.
That’s the way the money goes,
Pop! goes the weasel!

posted by Azara at 9:17 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


You're laughing now but we'll all get used to it after it becomes the national flag
posted by theodolite at 9:18 AM on July 15, 2016 [14 favorites]




As a logo, it’s kind of meh, but you need to see it in its full context as a motion graphic.

I would have preferred to see the hand, I mean P move.
posted by chris24 at 9:19 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


That logo...my god...

Pence is a human disaster.
posted by odinsdream at 9:19 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm less amused by the logo's double entendre than I am horrified they would opt for a design that wouldn't look out of place tattooed on a neo-Nazi's arm.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:20 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]




Can't wait for the new Chuck Tingle about the Trump/Pence logo .
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:22 AM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


To be fair, there is definitely a thread where we all were shitting on Hillary's logo, and it seems to be working out okay.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:23 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, hilarious that they're the TP ticket. The poop jokes write themselves!

MAKE AMERICA'S BUNGHOLE GREAT AGAIN!!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:25 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


corb et al: Where can I follow the inside baseball convention stuff?
posted by odinsdream at 9:26 AM on July 15, 2016


the tea party did a bang up job of lobbing cinder blocks through the overton window if pence is regarded as a cautious choice
posted by murphy slaw at 9:26 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


This bit of writing from Charlie Pierce's Esquire article on the Rules Committee meeting was particularly wonderful:

After it was all over, he fled up the escalators, dogged by reporters and emitting clouds of banal squid ink behind him and muttering darkly of future acts of abject futility on the floor of the convention. I've seen witnesses leaving grand juries who had less lateral speed than Mike Lee showed fleeing into the night.
posted by Dashy at 9:26 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]




Anagrams of Trump Pence
posted by zarq at 9:27 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


Clinton has one of those logos where maybe the designer was a bit overly clever or overly fixated on the concept of negative space, or whatever. A creative difference, basically. This Trump/Pence logo is from the team that brought you the Bud Light logo using Microsoft Word.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:28 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


can we talk about the trump/pence logo

MAKE TYPOGRAPHY GREAT AGAIN
posted by kirkaracha at 9:32 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]




To be fair, there is definitely a thread where we all were shitting on Hillary's logo, and it seems to be working out okay.

Likely due to the fact that it doesn't present an in-your-face depiction of intercourse plus include a reference to toilet paper a grade-school kid would pick up on.
posted by bearwife at 9:32 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]




The first, second, and third letters are right-aligned, the fourth are centered, and the last are left-aligned. Bewildering
posted by theodolite at 9:35 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


The thing is... you don't have to put "TP" in the logo. But they did.
posted by defenestration at 9:35 AM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Anagrams of Trump Pence

Pert Cum Pen
Prep Me Cunt
Mr Peep Cunt
posted by kirkaracha at 9:36 AM on July 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Honestly it a design challenge to work the initials TP into logo without it reading TP.

Then....don't try? The McCain/Palin Logo was just their names.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:36 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


I am going to assume they didn't save a vector version and that exact jpg with the bottom slightly cut off is what goes on the signs and t-shirts
posted by theodolite at 9:36 AM on July 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


Recent Pump
Crumpet Pen
Pent Rep Cum
Mr Peep Cunt
Men Pert Cup

Cut Men Prep
posted by lalochezia at 9:36 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Also, I now feel bad for Jon Chait's wife.

Me too, to be honest.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:37 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


HRC campaign email about the pick (except for the $ ask):

Donald Trump just announced Mike Pence will be his running mate.

If there was any doubt about Trump's intentions -- if you ever thought maybe he was just grandstanding about his anti-equality, anti-woman, anti-immigrant policies and his commitment to an economy that favors millionaires and corporations over working families -- well, with Pence as his vice president, we know exactly what to expect.

This choice shows us just how Trump would govern and what kind of America he would shape. Going up against Trump and Pence reinforces that this election is bigger than just a decision between two political parties.

It's about who we are as a nation. Are we the kind of country that denigrates women, immigrants, or anyone that looks, loves, or believes differently than us? Do we close our doors to people whose diverse viewpoints will only better us? Do we let nativism, bigotry, and intolerance become inscribed in our nation's character? Will we let "me-first" economics determine our families' paths to success?

posted by bearwife at 9:37 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'd say Pence is kind of the Cheney to Trump's Junior, but I'm not sure Pence is really bright enough to be classified as the Cheney.

He's basically an older, uglier, Dan Quayle. Rabidly right wing and dumb as a bag of hammers.

Meaning that there now are no grown ups on the ticket. The Republicans must be planning to try and stack his cabinet with the real behind the scenes puppet masters, either that or they've thrown their hands into the air and just given up.

I disagree with the people complaining about the logo. It is the single most perfect encapsulation of the Trump campaign that could possibly exist.
posted by sotonohito at 9:38 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]




Seen on Twitter: "That Trump/Pence logo looks like a Swastika pegging itself."
posted by sweetmarie at 9:41 AM on July 15, 2016 [29 favorites]


wait they're actually using that logo?
posted by you're a kitty! at 9:42 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Turning it sideways makes it look like a hand job, and makes the initials look like HJ. God this is incredible.
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:42 AM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the SA comment that was reposted here, arguing that Trump isn't really running a campaign but rather a cargo cult imitation of a campaign, is the most spot on accurate bit of political analysis I've ever seen.

Either Trump's media team is filled with total incompetents or secret Clinton supporters. Or they don't exist, which I suspect is increasingly the most likely explanation.
posted by sotonohito at 9:45 AM on July 15, 2016 [19 favorites]




A few easy digital things Trump's team didn't do before announcing Pence:

Incredible. Hillary/DNC staffers, take note!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Planned Parenthood email on Pence:

There is simply no question where Mike Pence stands when it comes to women's health and rights.

As Indiana governor, he signed into law anti-LGBTQ legislation and some of the most invasive and extreme abortion restrictions in the country. He forced the local Scott County Planned Parenthood health center to shut its doors in 2013, leaving the community with nowhere to turn for HIV testing and education. Two years later, the county faced an unprecedented HIV outbreak, which Pence himself deemed an "epidemic."

That's not all. As a House Representative in Congress, Pence was known for what Politico called a "one-man crusade" to prevent patients from getting care at Planned Parenthood anywhere in the country, introducing six separate measures in Congress.

posted by bearwife at 9:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


I'm less amused by the logo's double entendre than I am horrified they would opt for a design that wouldn't look out of place tattooed on a neo-Nazi's arm.

Right?? I kept looking for the swastika hidden in the negative space.
posted by indubitable at 9:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]



The thing is... you don't have to put "TP" in the logo. But they did.


Now they just need to make it bigger.
posted by drezdn at 9:48 AM on July 15, 2016


Poor Chris Christie. All that toadying for nothing.
posted by Soliloquy at 9:49 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


As someone who is from NJ, all I can say is I'm glad Christie is getting no reward for his Trump support—besides an unpaid internship. I'm personally happy he hitched his wagon to a piece of shit. There will never be enough TP to clean off the stink.
posted by defenestration at 9:50 AM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Chris Christie deserved to be Trump's VP. He deserved to be remembered forever as the first guy in his position (national executive office) willing to throw his country under the bus for a little bit of power. It would have meant he could never walk it back, and now, in a few years, he'll try. He should have gone down with the ship.
posted by sallybrown at 9:52 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hillary/DNC staffers, take note!

Oh, they have been. They had a new video and fundraising response out within the hour.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:52 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


NJ born-and-raised here. Chris Christie's campaign year has been no end of satisfying. Repeated ritual humiliations, combined with the Most Jersey Takedown Ever of Marco Rubio, who was genuinely scary to me up till Christie's glorious, glorious attack.
posted by rorgy at 9:52 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Poor Chris Christie. All that toadying for nothing. You think? I think he believes his Hermann Goering moment is approaching.

Any sensible R would realize this is like missing your sailing on the Titanic.
posted by bearwife at 9:53 AM on July 15, 2016


Will crosspost this to the Brexit thread, (if it hasn't been already,) but it's worth noting for this discussion that "UK Prime Minister Theresa May has said Article 50 will only be triggered when there was a UK-wide approach." (i.e., when Scotland agrees. So, never.)
posted by zarq at 9:54 AM on July 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


As long as we are speculating, my thought is that Chris Christie's bargain all along has been Attorney General, perhaps as a stepping stone to the Supreme Court.
posted by JackFlash at 9:54 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Next week Christie will be relegated to Pence's bagman, staring glumly into the middle distance during speeches; in 2017 he will stand with his hands awkwardly folded at his belt buckle while the new Secretary of the Interior takes a press conference; by 2020 he will be the vague shape at the back of the stage of a high school gymnasium during the Parents Week Talent Show, just looking for his big break
posted by beerperson at 9:54 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


The quality of the campaigns is so laughably different that it's really amazing there's anything like a race here, even if you set aside the lauGhABLY DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CANDIDATE EXPERIENCE AND SKILL AND OH RIGHT BASIC HUMAN DECENCY know what I'm going to go stick my face in my foster kitty's tummy fuzz for a while.
posted by you're a kitty! at 9:54 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


I saw a meme the other day that cast election personalities as Harry Potter characters (Trump = Voldemort, Clinton = Umbridge, etc), and since then, I've had a glorious time imagining Christie as Snape. You think he's a bad guy, but really he's in there messing eveeeeeerything up.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:55 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Turning it sideways makes it look like a hand job, and makes the initials look like HJ. God, this is incredible.

I just keep.looking at that thing and thinking, "Damn, right in the P-hole."
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 9:56 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


They had a new video and fundraising response out within the hour.

I was just about to link that myself. Check the timestamps on the tweets: Their anti-Pence video was posted just 15 minutes after Trump's announcement. The Clinton campaign was better prepared for the announcement than Trump's own campaign.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:56 AM on July 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


i think this is my favorite "tp for my bunghole"/trump logo mashup because the hashtag is really just perfect
posted by burgerrr at 9:57 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


"I'm still pretty shell-shocked from the Rules Committee hearing, but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't say - I still believe in not forcing people to act against their conscience, as a matter of conscience. But I no longer believe most of or even much of Republican leadership feels the same way. You can't call for religious and conscience exemption for people who can't morally support abortion, but not conscience exemption for people who can't morally support Donald Trump. Or rather, you can, but it's obvious you don't give a flying fuck about the principle."

Corb, I agree on the principle of not voting for Trump ever. But are these delegates Trump supporters who changed their minds? Or supporters of another candidate who got selected to be Trump delegates? As much as I dislike the guy, people voted for him in the primary, if you supported somebody else and maneuvered to get selected, you can't claim conscience to not vote for him you knew before hand what you were getting into (lets say baring extraordinary circumstances).
posted by coust at 9:58 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


So, never.

Or when Scotland is no longer part of the UK?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:59 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


John Kasich to address NAACP convention in Cleveland July 17.

It's in Cincincinnati.

Among the other white people posing in front of American flags will be Secretary Clinton and Ohio Senator Rob Portman (R).

the trump/pence logo

I wouldn't pay a trumppence for that.

Local color:
  • Trump himself will be staying at the Inter Continental Ballistic Motel on the campus of the Cleveland Clinic -- which is actually a few miles from the Q. It's the only hotel in the region that meets the Secret Service's security requirements. The worlds richest and sickest -- for example, members of the Saudi royal family -- stay here when visiting the Clinic (usually for cardiac care).
  • The hotel was built in 2003. Actually, it was rebuilt. The NOT FOR PROFIT Cleveland Clinic didn't like which direction the front door faced on the old hotel, so they tore it down and built a new one. Your health care dollars at work.
  • Mrs. H works at the Clinic -- not in patient care -- and her entire division was advised to work from home or take PTO the entire week of July 18th - 22. There's already sufficient construction to make navigation and parking in the area a total nightmare without 50,000 black SUV borne "VIPS" in town. But the place is already swarming with "agents" and the Stay Home order is probably more to do with security than logistics. Despite public expressions of confidence, official Cleveland is -- concerned.
  • The group Planting Peace has placed this billboard prominently on West 25th Street, depicting Messrs. Trump and Cruz locked in passionate embrace and the legend, "Love Trumps Hate. End Homophobia". The same outfit previously bought two houses across the street from the Westboro Baptist Church (Topeka, KS) and painted them in rainbow colors. That is all.  
posted by Herodios at 10:02 AM on July 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


Their anti-Pence video was posted just 15 minutes after Trump's announcement.

They probably had anti-whoever videos ready for each of the guys on the shortlist. Meanwhile it looks like the Trump logo was thrown together today.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:04 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


As much as I dislike the guy, people voted for him in the primary, if you supported somebody else and maneuvered to get selected, you can't claim conscience to not vote for him you knew before hand what you were getting in

Precisely. Delegates are selected for loyalty over conscience, but it's not like their conscience was absent when they cast their initial vote, and it's not like we suddenly learned about a bunch of skeletons in Trump's closet since the primaries started. We have a direct line into his lizard brain in the form of his Twitter feed. His xenophobia, misogyny, and fascist tendencies have been on display basically from the beginning of the campaign. It's erroneous to suggest that people refusing to change their vote is coming from some place of being a prisoner to the primary process and its rigid rules -- this is what these people want.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:05 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


They had a new video and fundraising response out within the hour.

And that's what having an 800 person campaign staff and $70M raised last month does for you. But let's go on again, Mr. Trump, about your 30 person staff.
posted by dw at 10:06 AM on July 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


I would give anything to have seen the look on Pence's face when Trump showed him the logo for the first time.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:08 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


And Corb, even though we probably don't agree on policy choices, I can feel your pain about seeing the party you supported becoming a caricature of itself and making ridiculous choices and I understand why you'd want to use any mean available to stop it. Wish you the best.
posted by coust at 10:10 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


I assume he saw it on twitter like everyone else
posted by beerperson at 10:10 AM on July 15, 2016 [20 favorites]


The Republicans must be planning to try and stack his cabinet with the real behind the scenes puppet masters, either that or they've thrown their hands into the air and just given up.

I think it's been every man, woman, and child for themselves for a while now. This is campaigning (and governing if it comes to that) as smash and grab.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:12 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I am 1000% sure Pence first saw that logo an hour ago on his assistant's phone
posted by theodolite at 10:12 AM on July 15, 2016 [34 favorites]


The first, second, and third letters are right-aligned, the fourth are centered, and the last are left-aligned. Bewildering

Yeah. Trump and Pence are literally misaligned. It's like they're trying to tell us something.
posted by zachlipton at 10:12 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


you're a kitty!: "The quality of the campaigns is so laughably different that it's really amazing there's anything like a race here, even if you set aside the lauGhABLY DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CANDIDATE EXPERIENCE AND SKILL AND OH RIGHT BASIC HUMAN DECENCY know what I'm going to go stick my face in my foster kitty's tummy fuzz for a while."

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Trump is doing all of this laughable stuff - total staff of 30, unhinged Twitter rants, laughably poor logos - and he's still, at best, a couple of points back.

It makes one wonder if all the stuff about having to run a brilliant campaign and all of the very expensive trappings are not worth very much at all.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:12 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Honestly it a design challenge to work the initials TP into logo without it reading TP.

They should've gone with PT to sucker in gamers mad at Konami.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:13 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


But are these delegates Trump supporters who changed their minds? Or supporters of another candidate who got selected to be Trump delegates?

In Indiana, at least, the delegates were chosen before the primary took place. They're not formally "Trump delegates," they're Republican delegates who are supposedly bound to vote for the winning candidate (in the case of Indiana, 30 for the state-wide winner and 3 each for the winner of each of the state's 9 Congressional districts). So it's very likely that a number of them don't personally support Trump.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:16 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


There's an old rule of thumb in graphic design that you always come up with three choices for a client: one so obviously bad that the client can reject it and feel authoritative, one you can live with if they happen to fall in love with it, and the one you really like. Of course Trump would pick the option he was supposed to reject out of hand.
posted by rikschell at 10:18 AM on July 15, 2016 [30 favorites]


Bernie Sanders will launch organizations to spread progressive message - USA TODAY
In an exclusive interview with USA TODAY, the Vermont senator detailed plans to launch educational and political organizations within the next few weeks to keep his progressive movement alive. The Sanders Institute will help raise awareness of "enormous crises” facing Americans. The Our Revolution political organization will help recruit, train and fund progressive candidates' campaigns. And a third political organization may play a more direct role in campaign advertising.

Sanders plans to support at least 100 candidates running for a wide range of public offices — from local school boards to Congress — at least through the 2016 elections. And he’ll continue to raise funds for candidates while campaigning for them all over the country. He said he probably will campaign for Tim Canova, a progressive primary challenger to Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, who chairs the Democratic National Committee.

[...]

Nearly 24,000 people have signed up on Sanders' website for information about running for office or helping people run for office in response to a June 16 video address in which Sanders urged his supporters to take action. At subsequent events, Sanders met privately with groups of those people, talking with them in “professorial mode” about why he originally ran for office, said Shannon Jackson, who will head Our Revolution.
posted by kyp at 10:19 AM on July 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


It makes one wonder if all the stuff about having to run a brilliant campaign and all of the very expensive trappings are not worth very much at all.

Well, as Karl Rove used to say, you only need 51% to win. And what Trump demonstrates is that you can run a campaign simply to "win" a lot more cheaply than you can run one to win and expect to govern. Yeah, a real flaw in the whole system there.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:19 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Republicans must be planning to try and stack his cabinet with the real behind the scenes puppet masters, either that or they've thrown their hands into the air and just given up.

The campaign of Trump, all of it, is the most clear-cut example that the Republican party is in complete disarray. There are no masters controlling this, choosing tactical moves. This is literally a one-party election at this point, and the Republican side of it is a phantom driven by our broken media system.
posted by odinsdream at 10:19 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


EXCLUSIVE: Trump says Palin isn't speaking at RNC because Alaska 'a long ways away'

When Sarah Palin won't take your microphone, something is deeply wrong with you.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 AM on July 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


It makes one wonder if all the stuff about having to run a brilliant campaign and all of the very expensive trappings are not worth very much at all.

Not if you're pandering to prejudice and fanning hatred. All you really need is a gas can.
posted by maxsparber at 10:21 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


It makes one wonder if all the stuff about having to run a brilliant campaign and all of the very expensive trappings are not worth very much at all.

The GOP has been running a relentless, dedicated 20+ year campaign of character assassination against her, which is paying off for them nicely now. It's the only reason their boy is even in the race, never mind close in the polls. Obviously Clinton hasn't always handled it in the best way, and both Clintons have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot when backed up against the wall, but it's hard to imagine anyone withstanding that onslaught for that long without considerable image damage.
posted by aught at 10:23 AM on July 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


I can't wait for "Pounded in my butt by the logo of Jesus Christ I can't do this anymore this is actually happening
posted by The Whelk at 10:24 AM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


But are these delegates Trump supporters who changed their minds?

In a lot of states, including mine, delegates were chosen before the primary and many explicitly campaigned on never voting for Trump.
posted by corb at 10:25 AM on July 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


Ryan Says He Believes Trump Is 'Going To Endeavor To Try' To Change

Oh, OK. [rolleyes] He's going to aspire to attempt to endeavor to try to change. Hope that works out for ya.
posted by zakur at 10:25 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


There's an old rule of thumb in graphic design that you always come up with three choices for a client: one so obviously bad that the client can reject it and feel authoritative, one you can live with if they happen to fall in love with it, and the one you really like. Of course Trump would pick the option he was supposed to reject out of hand.

Sadly, no one told little Baron about this rule of thumb before Dad sat him down in the rumpus room with the MacBook Pro to whip this up. (Gotta keep the vendor revenues in the family.)
posted by aught at 10:28 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apparently they didn't notice the visual similarity to the Aryan Nations logo, although I am starting to wonder how one campaign so often accidentally end up echoing actual Nazi stuff.
posted by maxsparber at 10:28 AM on July 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


Ryan Says He Believes Trump Is 'Going To Endeavor To Try' To Change

Heard that on the radio this morning, laughed out loud. Also I was impressed that Inskeep kept the pressure on in getting Ryan to admit that Trump is not likely to be a good president, leading to the 'endeavor to try' weasel words.
Standing on his own, would Donald Trump be a good president of the United States?

That's not the question we have in front of us. We have a binary choice. It is either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. So what's the point of entertaining hypotheticals that do not exist. That's not the question we're facing. We're facing ...

Well, it's not a hypothetical. He could be elected. Would he be a good president?

We're facing Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. And I do believe that Donald Trump would be a far better president than Hillary Clinton. I think Donald Trump will pick better Supreme Court justices. I think Donald Trump will sign better legislation into law that gets our country on a better path than Hillary Clinton. That's the choice in front of us and that is why I'm supporting Donald Trump.

What does he need to change to be a good president?

Well, you know he and I have talked about this. I think — I just think improving temperament and inclusive rhetoric, and an agenda that invites people into our party is something that I think anybody going from a primary to a general election needs a transition.

I find what happens is both parties speak to their party bases to win their primary elections, but what I think is necessary to have a national election worthy of being a majority party, we have to sell converts to conservatism. We have to go out and explain why our principles apply equally and universally to everybody and why our ideas are better than the alternatives.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:32 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ryan Says He Believes Trump Is 'Going To Endeavor To Try' To Change

Didn't Yoda have saying that could apply here?

Oh, right: "A crock of bullshit that is."
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:32 AM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump will aim to endeavor to pursue to venture to try to push to strive to undertake thinking about tackling an attempt at an experiment of seeking to solicit to take on a whirl at a crack at changing
posted by beerperson at 10:35 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


So, he Trumply Madly Deeply loves running for president?
posted by fedward at 10:38 AM on July 15, 2016


In a lot of states, including mine, delegates were chosen before the primary and many explicitly campaigned on never voting for Trump.

Thanks for the additional tidbit of info.
posted by coust at 10:39 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


So, he Trumply Madly Deeply loves running for president?

I knew I Trumped you before I met you?
posted by Talez at 10:41 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


So, never.

But we know what never means in America:

"As long as water flows, or grass grows, as long as the sun rises . . . "
 
posted by Herodios at 10:42 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


"As long as water flows, or grass grows, as long as the sun rises . . . "

All things which the GOP has declared war on.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:43 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


EXCLUSIVE: Trump says Palin isn't speaking at RNC because Alaska 'a long ways away'

When Sarah Palin won't take your microphone, something is deeply wrong with you.


Trump is the worst liar! This is what we want for a President, someone who can't even make up a convincing lie about why Crazypants Palin isn't coming to the convention? Surely the truth on that will come out and he's going to look like an idiot when it does. People love to get worked up about "Lyin' Hillary", but I would prefer a president who knows when and how to lie.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:45 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Here are the extremist groups planning to attend the RNC in Cleveland.

The Oath Keepers, Westboro Baptist Church, and the New Black Panthers have RSVP'd. The Traditionalist Workers' Party, meanwhile, seems to have cancelled its reservation.
posted by stolyarova at 10:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]




Are the Orphans going to Cleveland? They're really heavy. My youth worker, she talks about those guys all the time.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:50 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Apparently they didn't notice the visual similarity to the Aryan Nations logo, although I am starting to wonder how one campaign so often accidentally end up echoing actual Nazi stuff.

It's not accidental. They are provoking liberals into accusing Trump of fascism (or even Nazism) on the flimsiest of pretexts. People who might be inclined to support him will realize that such accusations are risible and unsubstantiated, and thereby become inured to other accusations of the same sort (including the more valid ones). They are, so to speak, inducing liberals to cry "wolf" when they see a badger to discredit their future cries of "wolf".
posted by Abelian Grape at 10:51 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


My brother just texted me, "In Indiana, bakeries don't need to serve cakes with that logo."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:51 AM on July 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


But he is a wolf. He's literally proposed putting people in camps based on their religious heritage.
posted by stolyarova at 10:53 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


People who might be inclined to support him will realize that such accusations are risible and unsubstantiated be appreciative of such racialist and nationalist dogwhistles, and therefore unconvinced that this is a problem.

Accusations of Trump as racist and Fascist aren't flimsy, and they aren't even pretexts. They're overt, and the basis of Trump's campaign and his appeal.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:53 AM on July 15, 2016 [31 favorites]


Apparently they didn't notice the visual similarity to the Aryan Nations logo, although I am starting to wonder how one campaign so often accidentally end up echoing actual Nazi stuff.

It's not accidental. They are provoking liberals


I think it is easier than that. I think Trump and his troops love the Aryan Nations and their ilk. They are telling us in every possible way what his campaign is about -- American fascism. The wolf is already here, there is no need to issue warnings he is coming.
posted by bearwife at 10:55 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Josh Marshall shuts down all other tweets on The Logo. "Make America Gape Again?"
posted by maudlin at 10:55 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


You think? I think he believes his Hermann Goering moment is approaching.

Christie is going to kill himself in prison to avoid certain execution at the hands of the enemies who laid waste to and occupied his country?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:55 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Christie is going to kill himself in prison to avoid certain execution at the hands of the enemies who laid waste to and occupied his country

It is sad that I love that image. No, I think he is looking forward to taking a major leadership role with the Leader's team once it takes office.
posted by bearwife at 10:58 AM on July 15, 2016


It's not accidental. They are provoking liberals

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by a 70-year-old reality television star running for president who does his own Photoshopping
posted by beerperson at 10:58 AM on July 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


I still cannot believe the logo is a T penetrating a P. what the fuck
posted by defenestration at 11:00 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Christie is . . . looking forward to taking a major leadership role with the Leader's team once it takes office.

Secretary of Transportation, perhaps?
 
posted by Herodios at 11:01 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Never attribute to malice what can be explained by a 70-year-old reality television star running for president who does his own Photoshopping

And has a professed interest in Nazi shit.
posted by maxsparber at 11:01 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Never attribute to malice what can be explained by a 70-year-old reality television star running for president who does his own Photoshopping

Perhaps Marissa Mayer did some consulting to angle for a post-Yahoo! position in Trump's cabinet. Secretary of Typography, here we come!
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:02 AM on July 15, 2016


Are the Orphans going to Cleveland? They're really heavy. My youth worker, she talks about those guys all the time.

They're just trying to impress the Riffs.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:02 AM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I still cannot believe the logo is a T penetrating a P. what the fuck

let's coin a new term, pencetrating.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:02 AM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


posted by Abelian Grape at 10:51 AM on July 15

Welcome, newcomer! I adore your name. Hope your commute is favorable.
posted by Dashy at 11:03 AM on July 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


I see everything happening at the Trump Campaign HQ as if it were The Apprentice, they send neophytes out to attempt to get a job done and go with whatever The Donald thinks is good in the moment. Or what gets him the drama and obeisance he needs.

I've never actually seen the show so I don't know how it ends but I hope this time Trump gets fired
posted by readery at 11:04 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Careful. Vigorous pencetratrion could lead to a santorum seepage. No one wants that.
posted by wabbittwax at 11:04 AM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Hot Air:
If only there were contraptions capable of carrying people great distances at great speed, then Sarah wouldn’t need many months’ notice to make it to Ohio from Alaska in time:

Fun fact: Palin’s introduction to the country as McCain’s VP choice in 2008 was at a rally held in … Ohio. She traveled overnight by private plane from Alaska to get there. Her last major public appearance on Trump’s behalf, the speech where she called #NeverTrumpers “RATs,” was delivered in Denver, just a few hours’ flight from Cleveland. There’s no such thing as a “long ways away.”

...

Speaking of Ivanka, I think her speech may be the most important of the convention besides Trump’s and not because of what it’ll do for his polling. If Trump goes down in flames this year, there’ll be a power vacuum at the top of his nationalist movement. There’s no obvious inheritor to lead it: Jeff Sessions will be 70 this fall and doesn’t have Trump’s charisma, and a guy like Chris Christie would have to not only reinvent himself politically but become a lot more likable. Palin would be a good match on policy, at least at this point, but not enough people take her seriously anymore. Given the Le Pen precedent in France, it’s not nuts to think that Ivanka could establish herself as a political player if she impresses next week. I get no sense from her that she’s committed to dad’s agenda, just to dad himself, but since she’s a political cipher it’d be easy for her to reinvent herself as a Marion Marechal Le Pen — if she wanted to. I think Trump’s hardcore fans would dig having her at the head of the movement too, not only because she seems smarter and certainly more charming than the old man but because Trump’s cult of personality logically requires another Trump to take the reins after he leaves the scene. Who else is fit to wear the crown of King Donald except his true heir? We’ll see how she does. Maybe, after the election, she’ll get bored with politics and go back to hobnobbing with power players in Manhattan and donating to Democrats. The apple doesn’t roll far from the tree.

posted by zarq at 11:04 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]






The Washington Post is reporting Indiana Gov. Mike Pence to be Trump's VP pick.
posted by fragmede at 11:06 AM on July 15, 2016


Remember that quote from a conservative writer (who?)

PJ O'Rourke
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:08 AM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


A top Republican foreign policy adviser called out Mike Pence for flip-flopping in his views on Donald Trump, who announced the Indiana governor as his running mate on Friday.

Dan Senor, former Bush administration official and 2012 Romney campaign adviser, wrote on Twitter that he and Pence had discussed how Trump was “unacceptable” and that it was “disorienting” to see him join the Trump campaign.
posted by bearwife at 11:10 AM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


@DanaBashCNN
Scoop: @realDonaldTrump was so unsure about @mike_pence that around midnight last night he asked top aides if he could get out of it

@HollyAnderson

Holly Anderson Retweeted Dana Bash

would you look at that, a Donald Trump opinion in line with the mainstream
posted by Existential Dread at 11:13 AM on July 15, 2016


Staff of -30, still has leaks. SMH.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:18 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Again, how is all this getting paid for?

Cuts in social programs and Mexico!
posted by juiceCake at 11:19 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wonder how many people who are working the Trump campaign have attorneys looking over their non-disclosures to see if/when they can start shopping their book deal. They got to be recording this.
posted by readery at 11:21 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump Internet seems to be having a factional war between "fuck Pence" and "I know this looks bad but we must all trust the great one"
posted by theodolite at 11:23 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


In a lot of states, including mine, delegates were chosen before the primary and many explicitly campaigned on never voting for Trump.

Sure, but how many? And how many said "never Trump" but meant "never Trump unless Hillary?" Delegates are party loyalists by definition, and many are candidate loyalists as well. To show that allowing people to vote their conscience is enough to sway the outcome, you need to show that those party and candidate loyalties aren't compelling parts that people can conscientiously weigh in their decision, and that's not clear to me at all.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


@howardfineman: #Trump circle thought #Newt went too far last night, confirming #Pence choice.
posted by homunculus at 11:24 AM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


GOP Platform Proposes To Get Rid Of National Parks And National Forests

I've always thought there are three main reasons to be proud to be an American:

1. Freedoms guaranteed in the Bill of Rights
2. Diversity of people
3. Natural beauty

GOP platform:

1. Let's criminalize abortion and make being gay a misdemeanor.
2. Let's build a wall to keep out Mexicans and make it illegal to be a Muslim.
3. Let's sell off Yosemite so that Google can convert it into a hi-tech parking lot for their fleet of robot cars.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:24 AM on July 15, 2016 [26 favorites]


Trump Internet seems to be having a factional war between "fuck Pence"

I think that's the logo.
posted by mazola at 11:26 AM on July 15, 2016 [36 favorites]


Divestiture of federal lands won't even be economically viable for the states that do think they want it, since federal grazing fees are lower than the cost of maintaining the land. And the creation of Grand Teton National Park that got Wyoming so wound up in the first place was a net economic boon to the state, bringing in more revenue from tourism than ranching could.

So, even if these people got what they think they want, they'd be worse off. There's not enough facepalm in the world.
posted by fedward at 11:28 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


murphy slaw: (deleted, hoax)

No, sorry, I'm afraid Trump actually is the candidate.
posted by clawsoon at 11:28 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


From a friend of a friend on facebook:


Since I'm from Indiana, a couple of people have asked me what Pence is like as governor. Here it is:

You're changing a tire in your driveway. As you take the tire off, you notice that the other three tires have all gone flat. Then the jack slips. The car rolls up your driveway, even though the drive slopes toward the street, somehow moving and balancing on its three remaining flats. The car rolls to a stop in your garage, but hits off of something that sparks. Your car erupts into flames. As you pause to consider the best way to reach your fire extinguisher, which is, of course, in the garage, the roof of your car explodes upward and sets the house on fire. Fortunately, your cell is in your pocket. You stagger back to the sidewalk to call for help, and a meteor the size of a humpback whale lands on you AND your flaming house.

That's what it's like having Pence as governor.


That's pretty accurate as far as I can tell, being one of Indiana's neighbors. It's crazy-making that Pence was denouncing Trump a while ago (and not that long ago, either) and now he's the VP choice. I keep expecting so much more calling out of ALLLLLLLL the inconsistencies but I guess the people who need to see them just don't see them.
posted by cooker girl at 11:30 AM on July 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


ThePinkSuperhero: "Staff of -30, still has leaks. SMH."

Now, come on. Not even Trump has a staff of NEGATIVE 30.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:31 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump operates on all-publicity-is-good-publicity, and in that sense the shitty logo is doing exactly what he wants it to: drawing attention.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:31 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Divestiture of federal lands won't even be economically viable for the states that do think they want it, since federal grazing fees are lower than the cost of maintaining the land.

You assume the states will keep the lands in public ownership. Private companies will lease the land for a pittance and assume the cost of maintenance, jack up the grazing fees to market rates, and pocket the arbitage. Meanwhile, free of any constraints (since if we're going to assume that Congress passes divestiture of federal lands they'll also dispense with any pesky regulations impeding private use of the land) the companies will basically trash the land, hand it back, and then move onto the next plot. State governments won't do anything because they'll be in the pockets of, or worse, are the people conducting this scheme.

Private control of federal lands is a guaranteed future profit source. There's way too much easy money at stake to ever consider a national park safe.
posted by Talez at 11:32 AM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


So, even if these people got what they think they want, they'd be worse off. There's not enough facepalm in the world.

they've been cutting off their nose to spite their face for so long that they're carving into their sinuses and approaching the forebrain
posted by murphy slaw at 11:32 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


Welp, that's another slot to fill over the weekend. Maybe there's a Trump cousin or two?

Ivanka Trump’s rabbi backs out of convention role

But he is a wolf.
"He felt as if Stillson might have taken the game of the Laughing Tiger a step further: inside the beast-skin, a man, yes. But inside the man-skin, a beast."
posted by octobersurprise at 11:33 AM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Private companies will lease the land for a pittance and assume the cost of maintenance, jack up the grazing fees to market rates, and pocket the arbitrage.

OK, so that's an even worse version of the same scenario, but the "poor" rancher who thinks divestiture is the big break he needs is still the one who's worse off. He's just even more so, while tidy profits accrue to big agribusiness.
posted by fedward at 11:37 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]




Ivanka Trump’s rabbi backs out of convention role
...the whole matter turned from rabbinic to political, something which was never intended...
Right. Agreeing to speak at a major political party's convention is not intended to be political. Got it.
posted by zakur at 11:38 AM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Ivanka Trump’s rabbi backs out of convention role

YES!

Sweet: Victory. This petition made change with 827 supporters!
posted by zarq at 11:39 AM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


NoxAeternum, reminded me of this old clip.
posted by stolyarova at 11:43 AM on July 15, 2016


Trump is definitely topping the ticket.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:46 AM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


People who might be inclined to support him will realize that such accusations are risible and unsubstantiated, and thereby become inured to other accusations of the same sort (including the more valid ones). They are, so to speak, inducing liberals to cry "wolf" when they see a badger to discredit their future cries of "wolf".

If you're going to make an eleven-dimensional chess argument, it might help if you provided evidence that Trump can think in more than one.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:46 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


The logo is accurate insofar as Pence is fucked.
posted by stolyarova at 11:47 AM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


RNC stage backdrop is a wall of bare plywood decorated with a single piece of 8.5 x 11 paper with that logo on it
posted by theodolite at 11:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


Holy shit the Full Frontal team banged that out quick. Hilarious.
posted by defenestration at 11:48 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I agree. Being Trump's VP is a booby prize.
posted by bearwife at 11:49 AM on July 15, 2016


"Banged."
posted by fedward at 11:49 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


eleven-dimensional chess

I learned from /r/the_donald today that it's now "4D Korean Starcraft"
posted by theodolite at 11:50 AM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


New running mate Mike Pence isn’t a fan of Donald Trump’s buddy, Tom Brady

Donald Trump and Mike Pence: A very strange partnership
Trump urged banning Muslims from entering the country. Pence called the idea unconstitutional.

Trump has called for blowing up America’s free-trade pacts. Pence has been a full-throated supporter of NAFTA and the Trans-Pacific Partnership on the ground that they have helped business in his state. [snip] Trump has ruled out cutting Social Security benefits and opposes changing Medicare. Pence has called for privatizing both programs and reducing benefits for Americans under the age of 40.

Trump has said: “In all truth, I don’t care whether or not a person is gay.”

Pence has called on Congress to “oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:53 AM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Are the Orphans going to Cleveland? They're really heavy. My youth worker, she talks about those guys all the time.

They're more worried about the Lizzie's showing up.
posted by bongo_x at 11:54 AM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


100% chance that we'll get all the worst policy positions of both Trump and Pence.
posted by stolyarova at 11:55 AM on July 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


You assume the states will keep the lands in public ownership.

Oh, the states won't. They'll sell the lands off to private owners, to balance their budgets. Idaho has sold 40% of the public lands it got when it became a state.
posted by suelac at 11:58 AM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


TRUMP
PENCE
Trump is definitely on top.
They put the T inside the P.
... that shitty logo ...
"Make America gape again."
TP

... this is a Presidential campaign? Seriously, for real?
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:03 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump should ignore his running mate's bad ideas about monetary policy
As often happens, Donald Trump has had conflicting views on the topic. Back in November, he argued that "Janet Yellen should have raised the rates" — a tight-money policy that could cause the economy to slow down. Then in May, Trump took a seemingly contradictory position, saying that Yellen "is a low interest rate person, she’s always been a low-interest-rate person, and let’s be honest, I’m a low-interest-rate person."

But while Trump’s views on monetary policy are vague and seemingly contradictory, his running mate Gov. Mike Pence’s views are clear and — for fans of monetary stimulus — rather ominous.Pence believes in "sound" — that is, tight — money

"During 2008 and 2009, the Fed pushed well over $1 trillion into the financial system in an attempt to rein in unemployment through more government stimulus," Pence argued in a November 2010 speech. "Yet the national jobless rate has been well above 9 percent for a record-tying 18 straight months."

"Printing money is no substitute for sound fiscal policy. The Fed can print more money, but it can’t print jobs."[snip] In his 2010 speech, Pence called on Congress to drop the employment half of the Fed’s mandate. That, presumably, would mean that the Fed would do less to contain the next recession, which could lead to greater job losses.[snip] Pence also flirted with returning to the gold standard.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:03 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump gets rid of Pence within 1 month. He's not the kind of person who can live with a feeling of regret, or settling for his second choice. It will gnaw at him until he snaps. He'll frame it as "I care about the people and my ideas, and the people hated Pence because he didn't agree with my ideas!"

Is there some kind of contract between Trump and Pence? Why wouldn't he have been able to change his mind last night - aside from just looking like an idiot (something he's shown he's not afraid of)?
posted by sallybrown at 12:04 PM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump’s pick came after three days of in-depth calls back-and-forth with evangelical leaders on whether Pence or former House Speaker Newt Gingrich would better appeal to their constituents. “He really is giving weight to the evangelical vote—it was his primary consideration,” Falwell says. “I made it clear to him that myself, and I believe the evangelical world, would strongly embrace either one.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:07 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


ZOMG with the hand job version of the logo the ejaculate is the American flag.

O shit this is where we find out our existence is an alien simulacrum, isn't it
posted by angrycat at 12:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Washington Post has some interesting stuff about the badly handled announcement.
Needless to say, having rumors out there that you thought about dumping your vice presidential pick 12 hours after his name started leaking is a bad thing. If you're Mike Pence, you just affixed your brand to Trump's for the next four months -- and perhaps the rest of your career -- and the botched handling of the VP rollout has now culminated in this. Not exactly a confidence-booster.

If anything, this leak is just the latest proof of how poorly the whole thing has been handled. And that poor handling, in turn, makes the rumor seem quite plausible.
It seems clear that Trump was still making up his mind on Thursday night and was irritated by the premature media announcement that Pence was chosen. Also Gingrich and Christie were not told that Pence was the choice. I've seen speculations that the Pence leak was done by Pro-Pence people hoping to force Trump's hand. I especially enjoyed the description of the conversation he had with Christie at 4:00 p.m. as "tense." Yeah, I bet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Daily Kos has a fun article up on how well Pence did last time he was on the national stage, a little over a year ago.
posted by bearwife at 12:24 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump gets rid of Pence within 1 month.

And then sues him.
posted by maxsparber at 12:25 PM on July 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


Whoa
In the latest setback, Thomas Barrack, a billionaire Los Angeles investor who said last month he’d gathered $32mn in commitments for a new super-political action committee supporting Trump, has decided not to donate to it or any other super-PAC, according to “Papa” Doug Manchester, a leading Trump fundraiser in California who has discussed the project with Barrack.[snip]

Earlier this year, the Las Vegas casino mogul Sheldon Adelson told Trump he’d give $100mn to support the presidential bid and explored forming his own super-PAC to direct the spending. But Adelson isn’t currently pursuing his own super-PAC, according to Andrew Abboud, a top Adelson aide, confirming an earlier report in the Los Angeles Times. A spokesman for Adelson declined to comment on whether Adelson is sticking with the $100mn pledge.
This is really a good sign, this and the way people are deserting the RNC. People do not want to be associated with him and who can blame them?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:32 PM on July 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


Tried to find examples of VP running mates dumped mid-campaign, and so far I've only turned up Thomas Eagleton