At first I thought you were simply taking a break
November 30, 2017 7:14 AM Subscribe
Why You Left Social Media: A Guesswork. An essay by Sofia Samatar on Kate Zambreno and quitting social media
At first I thought you were simply taking a break, as writers sometimes do, to meet a deadline or clear your head. That was before the election. Later, during the election and its aftermath, I thought maybe you left because you couldn’t stand the climate. [...] Perhaps you were suffering a kind of political depression.
I wonder if she was, truly, unfocused and incoherent. I wonder if the listener just didn't want to hear what she had to say.
posted by clawsoon at 8:10 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 8:10 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
A party where you’re always simultaneously at the party and getting ready for the party. Did it exhaust you?
What a beautiful way to describe how twitter et al made me feel.
“I think there’s a sense that if you are not online, you do not exist.”
I was afraid of this too. It's the most common objection to getting out of social networking- "I'll miss everything." As a matter of fact, I don't. As a matter of fact, I actually talk to my friends more because I'm not wasting time keeping up with things that don't matter to me. Never once have I been in a situation where I missed an event or an invitation. The only situation that happens to me: "Did you see that [outrage inducing, eyeball grabbing, anxiety provoking] article I posted?" Nope. Much more often I am at an event and the people around me are missing it because their head is down in their phones.
Report: Nothing stopping you from deleting your Facebook account right now.
I like to throw that link down in every discussion about social media, because I think, though there seems to be a greater awareness of it now, that Twitter and Facebook and Instagram are underrated as serious and harmful addictions. I think in a hundred years people are going to look back on our obsession with it as a bizarre mass hysteria. "I wish I could quit." You can! You can! Quit!
Last night I watched "The Circle," which when I read the book version of it years ago, seemed a humorous and over the top parody of Facebook. It's not anymore. Last year's election has had uncountable unintended consequences- I hope one of them is that the social media spell has been broken.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:12 AM on November 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
What a beautiful way to describe how twitter et al made me feel.
“I think there’s a sense that if you are not online, you do not exist.”
I was afraid of this too. It's the most common objection to getting out of social networking- "I'll miss everything." As a matter of fact, I don't. As a matter of fact, I actually talk to my friends more because I'm not wasting time keeping up with things that don't matter to me. Never once have I been in a situation where I missed an event or an invitation. The only situation that happens to me: "Did you see that [outrage inducing, eyeball grabbing, anxiety provoking] article I posted?" Nope. Much more often I am at an event and the people around me are missing it because their head is down in their phones.
Report: Nothing stopping you from deleting your Facebook account right now.
I like to throw that link down in every discussion about social media, because I think, though there seems to be a greater awareness of it now, that Twitter and Facebook and Instagram are underrated as serious and harmful addictions. I think in a hundred years people are going to look back on our obsession with it as a bizarre mass hysteria. "I wish I could quit." You can! You can! Quit!
Last night I watched "The Circle," which when I read the book version of it years ago, seemed a humorous and over the top parody of Facebook. It's not anymore. Last year's election has had uncountable unintended consequences- I hope one of them is that the social media spell has been broken.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:12 AM on November 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
(This is only tangentially related, but Sofia Samatar's fantasy novel A Stranger in Olondria is very, very good, and not anywhere near as well-known as it should be. )
posted by golwengaud at 8:22 AM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by golwengaud at 8:22 AM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
I’ve said this before, but when I left Facebook for good a couple of years ago (after a couple of brief hiatuses) I seemingly chopped myself off the face of the Earth for a lot of people I know. You can talk all you like about how shitty and evil FB is and it still does not change the fact that it’s how people communicate right now, whether you or I like it or not. I used to try and send emails to people but most either went unanswered or I’d get messages like “Good to hear from you, I’ll write more when I get a chance” (Ron Howard Voice: “They never got a chance.”). Cell phones have pretty much killed off long phone conversations for people my age. So what’s left? It’s a drag. A good friend of mine actually told me “It’s like you’re dead.”
Twitter, on the other hand, I don’t miss at all and there have been no downsides to leaving for me. Kill it with fire and then nuke it from orbit.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:23 AM on November 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
Twitter, on the other hand, I don’t miss at all and there have been no downsides to leaving for me. Kill it with fire and then nuke it from orbit.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:23 AM on November 30, 2017 [22 favorites]
I maintain Facebook to keep up with family. And I am on Reddit just for some subreddits.
I barely post anything anymore and don't get any real news from these sources. Too vitriolic, too polarized for a centrist. That's a key reason I don't post much here, either.
My life is a lot less complicated now.
posted by disclaimer at 8:27 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I barely post anything anymore and don't get any real news from these sources. Too vitriolic, too polarized for a centrist. That's a key reason I don't post much here, either.
My life is a lot less complicated now.
posted by disclaimer at 8:27 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Twitter can be more easily curated, but in the Trump era it's still incredibly stressful. And obviously Twitter's management is a Nazi-friendly garbage fire. And yet: I'm still there.
I took some steps about Twitter in my own life in the last couple of weeks - I deleted it from my phone, which I take everywhere. It's now only on my tablet, which I only use at home. It has made a difference for me not to be able to constantly check in, which in turn is making a difference in my mental health, and making it easier for me to avoid checking it frequently when I'm at home. I'm not going cold turkey, but I'm cutting back use, and it helps.
posted by nubs at 8:27 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Have not pushed the plunger, but when I do I tell you is gonna be one reason: Nazis.
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
I've had a very locked-down, ad-blocked, Facebook account for years now (primarily to grab my moniker, but then FB went a required real names.) I rarely ever even looked at it. Then, we moved to a new neighborhood in the big city, and freaking everything having to do with the neighborhood is carried-out through a Facebook page. It gripes me to no end that I have to actually use FB now.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:36 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 8:36 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Never once have I been in a situation where I missed an event or an invitation.
Sadly that's not been my experience. I haven't been checking Facebook for a while. And I miss a ton of stuff through various local groups. Usually these events are not publicized in any other way. I hate it.
posted by enn at 8:37 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sadly that's not been my experience. I haven't been checking Facebook for a while. And I miss a ton of stuff through various local groups. Usually these events are not publicized in any other way. I hate it.
posted by enn at 8:37 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I keep my FB account but only access it via Chrome's incognito mode and uninstalled the app on my phone so that they don't track me and I don't get notifications. Just doing that has significantly reduced its hold on my brain. Just having to log in each time I use it is enough of a barrier that I only check it a few times a week.
posted by octothorpe at 8:38 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 8:38 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
While this is a heartfelt piece, it's super needy. I'm surprised that the author is not better enlightened by her own closing:
I 'took a break' from social media a while ago now, and very quickly realized that the biggest reason I needed a break is that I resent having to maintain a mediated version of myself. It's difficult enough to be an authentic, present and engaged person in real life, day-to-day, even just inside my own mind. I certainly do not need--nor did I ask--for the incessant, daily homework assignments that social media demand. I love that I've reclaimed my experiences as my own experiences, with no need or compulsion to document and share them. I want to live my life, and experience it as fully as I can, moment-to-moment, because when I die I will cease to have any experiences at all, and there will be no me to remember them. If this is all I get, I'm paying attention as best as I can.
When I realized that self-curation of mediated versions of myself was profoundly interfering with that, I dropped it and feel like I reclaimed a lot of myself by doing so. Also:
A good friend of mine actually told me “It’s like you’re dead.”
I think we all need some re-evaluation of physical locality and the sustainability of friendships. If you have friends who really only know you or interact with you via Facebook, then you may be artificially sustaining relationships that previously would have evolved differently. I call and text my family and close, life-long friends, and do that the old-fashioned way, individually. I communicate with each of them only in a two-way mode, and it has been so much better. My active, day-to-day friendships are sustained by seeing each other in-person regularly and spending time together. (And when I find myself, for instance, wishing that friends and family would post more pics or share more, I take that as a cue to go and visit, to spend time with those people in person. I even find, at work, that I am eschewing email conversations and scheduling short meetings instead, and am finding that's better practice.)
posted by LooseFilter at 8:39 AM on November 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
To me you seemed like a person, a soul. I miss you.How has the essential truth of why a prominent author would disengage from social media eluded her? Maybe it's because all these people that they don't know and will likely never meet have formed emotional bonds with an imagined, mediated version of them, and because you are demanding their energy and effort (I READ BARTHES BECAUSE OF YOU) to fulfill your emotional need.
I 'took a break' from social media a while ago now, and very quickly realized that the biggest reason I needed a break is that I resent having to maintain a mediated version of myself. It's difficult enough to be an authentic, present and engaged person in real life, day-to-day, even just inside my own mind. I certainly do not need--nor did I ask--for the incessant, daily homework assignments that social media demand. I love that I've reclaimed my experiences as my own experiences, with no need or compulsion to document and share them. I want to live my life, and experience it as fully as I can, moment-to-moment, because when I die I will cease to have any experiences at all, and there will be no me to remember them. If this is all I get, I'm paying attention as best as I can.
When I realized that self-curation of mediated versions of myself was profoundly interfering with that, I dropped it and feel like I reclaimed a lot of myself by doing so. Also:
A good friend of mine actually told me “It’s like you’re dead.”
I think we all need some re-evaluation of physical locality and the sustainability of friendships. If you have friends who really only know you or interact with you via Facebook, then you may be artificially sustaining relationships that previously would have evolved differently. I call and text my family and close, life-long friends, and do that the old-fashioned way, individually. I communicate with each of them only in a two-way mode, and it has been so much better. My active, day-to-day friendships are sustained by seeing each other in-person regularly and spending time together. (And when I find myself, for instance, wishing that friends and family would post more pics or share more, I take that as a cue to go and visit, to spend time with those people in person. I even find, at work, that I am eschewing email conversations and scheduling short meetings instead, and am finding that's better practice.)
posted by LooseFilter at 8:39 AM on November 30, 2017 [34 favorites]
Sofia Samatar is very very good and nowhere near as well-known as she should be.
The sequel to Stranger In Olondria, The Winged Histories, is if anything actually better than SIL.
Her short stories are also very good. I particularly like "The Closest Thing To Animals".
I miss a ton of stuff because I basically don't facebook. I have fewer friends than I used to and see them less often. But man do I hate Facebook, and honestly in my extended social circle it mainly seems to stir up needless drama - real issues, needs and concerns spark huge, polarizing conflicts because they are not handled in person, because there is miscommunication, because there is a record of the whole conversation rather than just the "we both made mistakes, here is our resolution" and because the whole thing becomes performative. I regret that I don't see people as much and pretty much miss every party and gathering, but my housemates' reports on their facebook situations are just godawful. Luckily my family doesn't facebook at all.
posted by Frowner at 8:41 AM on November 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
The sequel to Stranger In Olondria, The Winged Histories, is if anything actually better than SIL.
Her short stories are also very good. I particularly like "The Closest Thing To Animals".
I miss a ton of stuff because I basically don't facebook. I have fewer friends than I used to and see them less often. But man do I hate Facebook, and honestly in my extended social circle it mainly seems to stir up needless drama - real issues, needs and concerns spark huge, polarizing conflicts because they are not handled in person, because there is miscommunication, because there is a record of the whole conversation rather than just the "we both made mistakes, here is our resolution" and because the whole thing becomes performative. I regret that I don't see people as much and pretty much miss every party and gathering, but my housemates' reports on their facebook situations are just godawful. Luckily my family doesn't facebook at all.
posted by Frowner at 8:41 AM on November 30, 2017 [14 favorites]
The Card Cheat: There are definitely some people who can't manage a relationship with you without using Facebook- I've found that the reorganization of my life around people who are actually capable of having an in-person relationship with me has been profoundly beneficial.
On preview: What LooseFilter said.
Nubs posted a good intermediate step for those who can't commit to quitting right now: remove it from your mobile devices.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:42 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
On preview: What LooseFilter said.
Nubs posted a good intermediate step for those who can't commit to quitting right now: remove it from your mobile devices.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:42 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've found that the reorganization of my life around people who are actually capable of having an in-person relationship with me has been profoundly beneficial.
This, very much.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:44 AM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
This, very much.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:44 AM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
We were no longer, you said, in the eighties, when “marginalization” meant being erased, unpublished, and suppressed, or even the early nineties, when the black and feminist groups you were part of handed out photocopied flyers at the library. “In those days,” you said, “we were being told to shut up, but now everybody wants us to talk all the time.” You didn’t understand this, and it made you suspicious. How, exactly, are people marginalized in the context of unceasing pressure to speak? What happens to these masses of speech produced day after day and given away for nothing, often at great personal cost?
I also liked this. Reminded me of the bits about speaking, sexuality and the confessional mode in Foucault.
Honestly, I know why people need and use facebook, and I recognize that not having to use it is in part a sign of cultural and economic privilege - I live near most of my close friends, I am employed and don't need to crowdfund rent/food/meds, I am employed in an old-world job where I just....go to work, work and get a check, so I don't need to craft a mediated personality to get more Lyft customers or clicks or whatever. My friends who make most of their money through Lyft or other social media platforms seem to me to have a nightmarish existence, where their entire selves must be monetized and crafted so that no one will, like, hate-review them for their TaskRabbit services because they dress wrong or like the wrong music or aren't "fun" enough or whatever.
posted by Frowner at 8:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
I also liked this. Reminded me of the bits about speaking, sexuality and the confessional mode in Foucault.
Honestly, I know why people need and use facebook, and I recognize that not having to use it is in part a sign of cultural and economic privilege - I live near most of my close friends, I am employed and don't need to crowdfund rent/food/meds, I am employed in an old-world job where I just....go to work, work and get a check, so I don't need to craft a mediated personality to get more Lyft customers or clicks or whatever. My friends who make most of their money through Lyft or other social media platforms seem to me to have a nightmarish existence, where their entire selves must be monetized and crafted so that no one will, like, hate-review them for their TaskRabbit services because they dress wrong or like the wrong music or aren't "fun" enough or whatever.
posted by Frowner at 8:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [21 favorites]
I too will speak up again for being on Facebook. (Note I didn't say "for Facebook".) As cruddy a platform and company as it may be, it's how people connect - I don't just mean events/invites, but keeping updated with people. Their kids, their pets, their vacations... I tried going off it several years ago and still regret the time I lost with friends.
I see very few political posts. All my friends talk about their families and what's going on with themselves. It's a precious view into their lives, we all appreciate one another, and FB has actually become a haven for us against this political noise people claim it represents.
If you've got a close circle of real life friends, and on FB it's filled with noise, then yes of course, that doesn't sound like a net bonus.
But if you know a lot of people who move around, and your feed is filled with content? Well, I don't mind telling Facebook a few times here and there "I don't want to see this" for stuff I don't want to see, in exchange for the vast majority of babies and kids and musical instruments and silly dog and cat pics and all the other stuff that goes into maintaining relationships when you're not nearby physically.
Like so many tools, it comes down to how you use it. You don't have to use it if it doesn't work for you. That's cool. But this black and white view of it, that gets imposed on everyone without exception... it's no better than any other black and white view of anything.
posted by fraula at 8:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
I see very few political posts. All my friends talk about their families and what's going on with themselves. It's a precious view into their lives, we all appreciate one another, and FB has actually become a haven for us against this political noise people claim it represents.
If you've got a close circle of real life friends, and on FB it's filled with noise, then yes of course, that doesn't sound like a net bonus.
But if you know a lot of people who move around, and your feed is filled with content? Well, I don't mind telling Facebook a few times here and there "I don't want to see this" for stuff I don't want to see, in exchange for the vast majority of babies and kids and musical instruments and silly dog and cat pics and all the other stuff that goes into maintaining relationships when you're not nearby physically.
Like so many tools, it comes down to how you use it. You don't have to use it if it doesn't work for you. That's cool. But this black and white view of it, that gets imposed on everyone without exception... it's no better than any other black and white view of anything.
posted by fraula at 8:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [23 favorites]
I got rid of my FB account about five years ago for a number of reasons, but one was that friends had stopped telling me about things that went on in their lives. If I didn't know, it was my fault for not spending enough time reading facebook.
Now, when I run into people I haven't seen in a while, they catch me up on what's been going on in their lives, and I tell them what's been going on in mine. It's wonderful.
posted by phooky at 8:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
Now, when I run into people I haven't seen in a while, they catch me up on what's been going on in their lives, and I tell them what's been going on in mine. It's wonderful.
posted by phooky at 8:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
Honestly, I know why people need and use facebook, and I recognize that not having to use it is in part a sign of cultural and economic privilege...
I mean, it can be. But having an internet connection and the time+energy to use facebook is itself connected to huge privilege.
Nthing ditching FB and Twitter. And at the rate things are going, daily internet is next.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:50 AM on November 30, 2017
I mean, it can be. But having an internet connection and the time+energy to use facebook is itself connected to huge privilege.
Nthing ditching FB and Twitter. And at the rate things are going, daily internet is next.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:50 AM on November 30, 2017
I don't think there is anything wrong with maintaining online relationships with people who live far away. I've moved a lot and appreciate being able to know what is happening in people's lives. The problems with Facebook are all of the other junk you're made to wade through to get to that. I don't care what news article my friends read today, or what they think about an article their friend read today. I care about the things that are actually happening to them in their lives—the kind of things people use to blog about, back when people blogged. This is probably about 5% of a typical Facebook feed now, though, and it's just not worth it anymore to sift through all the rest.
posted by enn at 8:50 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by enn at 8:50 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
If we have reached a point where we have to use a private business in order to have meaningful social contact then that business needs to be regulated as a public utility.
posted by Beholder at 8:51 AM on November 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 8:51 AM on November 30, 2017 [29 favorites]
People who used to use Yahoo Groups or listservs or whatever to coordinate things now use Facebook, and if you want to be included in those things, you have to be there.
Yeah, this is the exact reason I had to stay on FB for a long time. A lot of the "just leave FB!" people don't seem to get this at all. Oh, and just a few comments later: "Nothing stopping you from deleting your Facebook account right now." Heh.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:58 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, this is the exact reason I had to stay on FB for a long time. A lot of the "just leave FB!" people don't seem to get this at all. Oh, and just a few comments later: "Nothing stopping you from deleting your Facebook account right now." Heh.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:58 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
The thing about facebook is that it's enclosure - the open internet wasn't really a "commons", because you had to have a computer, an internet connection and the knowledge base to use them, but it had some commons-like features, in that you could interact with it in a way that made you [connections/money/amusement/skills] without enriching a mediating owner/landlord. The only "landlord" was your internet company, and they might be a pain but were relatively unintrusive.
This, of course, could not be allowed to continue, just as land not owned by a landlord could not be allowed. Some means of extracting value from users had to be developed, and land use had to be standardized, so to speak.
And productive labor had to be compelled. When you have, eg, unowned land, people can just roam around on the land, herding and gathering and so on - that doesn't make any money. They can't be compelled into the labor market if they can just do their own thing and still survive. You have to create rules that force them into the economy.
I think it's no coincidence that facebook and social media generally function as a way of extracting unpaid or grossly underpaid cultural and creative labor from women, queer people and POC. It's not the same as colonialism, but it's an echo. Things that people either would never have done at all or would have done at their own pace for love are now squeezed out of people because you have to maintain a social media persona to be fully employable and a full social person.
posted by Frowner at 8:58 AM on November 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
This, of course, could not be allowed to continue, just as land not owned by a landlord could not be allowed. Some means of extracting value from users had to be developed, and land use had to be standardized, so to speak.
And productive labor had to be compelled. When you have, eg, unowned land, people can just roam around on the land, herding and gathering and so on - that doesn't make any money. They can't be compelled into the labor market if they can just do their own thing and still survive. You have to create rules that force them into the economy.
I think it's no coincidence that facebook and social media generally function as a way of extracting unpaid or grossly underpaid cultural and creative labor from women, queer people and POC. It's not the same as colonialism, but it's an echo. Things that people either would never have done at all or would have done at their own pace for love are now squeezed out of people because you have to maintain a social media persona to be fully employable and a full social person.
posted by Frowner at 8:58 AM on November 30, 2017 [19 favorites]
> And when I find myself, for instance, wishing that friends and family would post more pics or share more, I take that as a cue to go and visit, to spend time with those people in person.
I do this as well; I text people, I email them, I set up in-person meetups...but I guess it's kind of an emotional labour thing I sometimes get angry and sad about, because it seems like if I didn't do these things I would effectively cease to exist for a lot of people. They're always glad to hear from me and meet up or whatever, but since I'm not on Facebook if I don't do the work to reach out it doesn't happen. I sometimes get the impression that part of them thinks "Oh right, The Card Cheat exists!" every time they hear from me. I know everyone my age is busy with work and children and everything else middle age involves, but it's still sad.
> I 'took a break' from social media a while ago now, and very quickly realized that the biggest reason I needed a break is that I resent having to maintain a mediated version of myself.
This, this, a million times this. I didn't leave Facebook because my friends or family got in fights over politics or anything else (although there were a few people I un-followed or whatever they call it so I couldn't see their posts unless I went to their profile), I left because of the anxiety having to maintain this online persona created. Is this photo interesting enough? Is this quip witty enough? Will people (mis)understand why I posted this link? Am I posting too much? Not enough? Etc., etc., etc. forever and ever.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
I do this as well; I text people, I email them, I set up in-person meetups...but I guess it's kind of an emotional labour thing I sometimes get angry and sad about, because it seems like if I didn't do these things I would effectively cease to exist for a lot of people. They're always glad to hear from me and meet up or whatever, but since I'm not on Facebook if I don't do the work to reach out it doesn't happen. I sometimes get the impression that part of them thinks "Oh right, The Card Cheat exists!" every time they hear from me. I know everyone my age is busy with work and children and everything else middle age involves, but it's still sad.
> I 'took a break' from social media a while ago now, and very quickly realized that the biggest reason I needed a break is that I resent having to maintain a mediated version of myself.
This, this, a million times this. I didn't leave Facebook because my friends or family got in fights over politics or anything else (although there were a few people I un-followed or whatever they call it so I couldn't see their posts unless I went to their profile), I left because of the anxiety having to maintain this online persona created. Is this photo interesting enough? Is this quip witty enough? Will people (mis)understand why I posted this link? Am I posting too much? Not enough? Etc., etc., etc. forever and ever.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [17 favorites]
Look, if you *enjoy* using facebook, by all means continue using it. The fact is that the consensus among most people seems to be, "I hate it but I can't stop."
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:07 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:07 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
I've found that the reorganization of my life around people who are actually capable of having an in-person relationship with me has been profoundly beneficial.
This is a position of privilege across many axes. You need to have enough social capital to have that list be more than a handful. You and those people need to be on similar schedules (good luck if you're working nights and weekends and your friends work Monday to Friday, nine to five). You need to be living geographically close, and/or be able and able to afford to travel. You need to have time (so not working two full time jobs) beyond what you get commuting. Etcetera, etcetera.
I don't think there is anything wrong with maintaining online relationships with people who live far away. I've moved a lot and appreciate being able to know what is happening in people's lives. The problems with Facebook are all of the other junk you're made to wade through to get to that.
Your friends may vary, but I just don't recognise this (or any hellscape vision of Facebook that gets trotted out) in my experience of Facebook at all. There's little to no "that other junk".
posted by Dysk at 9:07 AM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is a position of privilege across many axes. You need to have enough social capital to have that list be more than a handful. You and those people need to be on similar schedules (good luck if you're working nights and weekends and your friends work Monday to Friday, nine to five). You need to be living geographically close, and/or be able and able to afford to travel. You need to have time (so not working two full time jobs) beyond what you get commuting. Etcetera, etcetera.
I don't think there is anything wrong with maintaining online relationships with people who live far away. I've moved a lot and appreciate being able to know what is happening in people's lives. The problems with Facebook are all of the other junk you're made to wade through to get to that.
Your friends may vary, but I just don't recognise this (or any hellscape vision of Facebook that gets trotted out) in my experience of Facebook at all. There's little to no "that other junk".
posted by Dysk at 9:07 AM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
BuddhaInABucket: I like to throw that link down in every discussion about social media, because I think, though there seems to be a greater awareness of it now, that Twitter and Facebook and Instagram are underrated as serious and harmful addictions. I think in a hundred years people are going to look back on our obsession with it as a bizarre mass hysteria.
It's our very own Gin Craze.
posted by clawsoon at 9:09 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's our very own Gin Craze.
posted by clawsoon at 9:09 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sofia Samatar is very very good and nowhere near as well-known as she should be.
Absolutely, she's an incredible writer. I was a little surprised when this appeared in relation to Zambreno because Samatar herself stopped actively blogging and deleted her twitter account a few years ago. I missed her blog and the literature she recommended/dug into- a lot of fantasy, poetry and works translated from Arabic - quite a bit. It was where I first encountered a good few works through her writing so I understand "[i]n your absence, I mourn mostly because I don’t know what you’re reading."
Of course it's not like Samatar owed anyone a reason but the "atmosphere of self-promotion. A climate, one could say, of competing storms" - and the whole essay, really - make it pretty clear why someone might drop the whole thing.
posted by ocular shenanigans at 9:10 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Absolutely, she's an incredible writer. I was a little surprised when this appeared in relation to Zambreno because Samatar herself stopped actively blogging and deleted her twitter account a few years ago. I missed her blog and the literature she recommended/dug into- a lot of fantasy, poetry and works translated from Arabic - quite a bit. It was where I first encountered a good few works through her writing so I understand "[i]n your absence, I mourn mostly because I don’t know what you’re reading."
Of course it's not like Samatar owed anyone a reason but the "atmosphere of self-promotion. A climate, one could say, of competing storms" - and the whole essay, really - make it pretty clear why someone might drop the whole thing.
posted by ocular shenanigans at 9:10 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've found a happy medium with FB usage. I unfollowed everybody except my wife and kids, who between them post maybe 3 updates a month. It's maybe more useful for events now as they are literally the only thing I see on my FB wall, so I don't miss them. And I still use Messenger (via the Messenger Lite app) for IM, because that is where everybody else is too. If I have 15 minutes of downtime I can quickly scroll through the "Friends with new posts" list and click through to each friend to see what they are up to. This way it's me deciding when I care about checking in, not FB pushing stuff at me. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. (edit due to accidental publish click in middle of sentence)
posted by COD at 9:11 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by COD at 9:11 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
I thought this felt really familiar and then opened up “The Closest Thing To Animals” and there it was in the first paragraph: “I have a habit of meeting people right before they get famous and don’t need me anymore. I met Rock Morris two weeks before his book came out. I met Cindy Vea when she worked at the bakery. Her hair straggled out of her ponytail and neither of us would have guessed you could even be a full-time blogger. Six months later, I emailed Cindy to remind her about the panel we were putting together for the Conference on Negative Realism. She never wrote back.” And then, “A text from Nadia Barsoum. “No surprise that u didn’t say hi since u never visited me in the hospital. U really are the worst person.”
Girl, just email Kate Zambreno. Maybe she’s having a hard time and could use a friend. Maybe she misses you too.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:12 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Girl, just email Kate Zambreno. Maybe she’s having a hard time and could use a friend. Maybe she misses you too.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:12 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
> It's our very own Gin Craze.
I dunno, getting shitfaced on gin seems like a rational reaction to being poor in 18th century England.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:16 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
I dunno, getting shitfaced on gin seems like a rational reaction to being poor in 18th century England.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:16 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is a position of privilege across many axes.
Obviously, and my comment was no version of "this is what should be true for everyone" or "everyone should do as I do." I am only sharing my experience, and if some here find value in what I've learned, I'm glad; if it does not speak to you at all, that's OK too, we all have different kinds of lives. But I simply cannot account for all people's perspectives and social circumstance when sharing my own experiences.
I don't think there is anything wrong with maintaining online relationships with people who live far away.
But this black and white view of it, that gets imposed on everyone without exception... it's no better than any other black and white view of anything.
I haven't read any comments in this thread that are fairly characterized as saying these things. I'm reading people sharing their own experiences with social media, and why it may or may not be useful or desirable for them, and maybe a recommendation. (For my part, I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should or should not do, and if you read something like "FB was bad for me" as also implying "[you should not use FB because] FB was bad for me," then you are likely projecting.)
posted by LooseFilter at 9:20 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Obviously, and my comment was no version of "this is what should be true for everyone" or "everyone should do as I do." I am only sharing my experience, and if some here find value in what I've learned, I'm glad; if it does not speak to you at all, that's OK too, we all have different kinds of lives. But I simply cannot account for all people's perspectives and social circumstance when sharing my own experiences.
I don't think there is anything wrong with maintaining online relationships with people who live far away.
But this black and white view of it, that gets imposed on everyone without exception... it's no better than any other black and white view of anything.
I haven't read any comments in this thread that are fairly characterized as saying these things. I'm reading people sharing their own experiences with social media, and why it may or may not be useful or desirable for them, and maybe a recommendation. (For my part, I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should or should not do, and if you read something like "FB was bad for me" as also implying "[you should not use FB because] FB was bad for me," then you are likely projecting.)
posted by LooseFilter at 9:20 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I too will speak up again for being on Facebook. (Note I didn't say "for Facebook".)
Same. I live alone, and I've been on my own for a long, long time. Humans are social creatures, and Facebook allows me to socialize in my own private space, at a level I want. I don't love Facebook, but it's certainly helping to keep me sane. I can talk on Facebook and get some social exchange, or I can talk to the wall.
I am quite active, and with that, it's become something of a creative outlet. Being on there regularly allows me to curate my friends and feed nicely. I have become close to some people whom I never would have in real life.
Single people comprise 28% of all households in Canada. That's a pretty significant number, one which is only going to rise. For many people like me, Facebook is a necessary life tool. If you can do without it -- great, good for you. There's a lot of people who can't.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:24 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Same. I live alone, and I've been on my own for a long, long time. Humans are social creatures, and Facebook allows me to socialize in my own private space, at a level I want. I don't love Facebook, but it's certainly helping to keep me sane. I can talk on Facebook and get some social exchange, or I can talk to the wall.
I am quite active, and with that, it's become something of a creative outlet. Being on there regularly allows me to curate my friends and feed nicely. I have become close to some people whom I never would have in real life.
Single people comprise 28% of all households in Canada. That's a pretty significant number, one which is only going to rise. For many people like me, Facebook is a necessary life tool. If you can do without it -- great, good for you. There's a lot of people who can't.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:24 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
I haven't read any comments in this thread that are fairly characterized as saying these things
[...]
and if you read something like "FB was bad for me" as also implying "[you should not use FB because] FB was bad for me," then you are likely projecting.
From one of the first comments in the thread:
Report: Nothing stopping you from deleting your Facebook account right now.
I like to throw that link down in every discussion about social media, because I think, though there seems to be a greater awareness of it now, that Twitter and Facebook and Instagram are underrated as serious and harmful addictions.
posted by Dysk at 9:31 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
[...]
and if you read something like "FB was bad for me" as also implying "[you should not use FB because] FB was bad for me," then you are likely projecting.
From one of the first comments in the thread:
Report: Nothing stopping you from deleting your Facebook account right now.
I like to throw that link down in every discussion about social media, because I think, though there seems to be a greater awareness of it now, that Twitter and Facebook and Instagram are underrated as serious and harmful addictions.
posted by Dysk at 9:31 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Like, you may not be talking personally about anything but your experience, but the conversation absolutely includes statements about what we all can and should do.
posted by Dysk at 9:32 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Dysk at 9:32 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
I like to throw that link down in every discussion about social media, because I think
Emphasis mine, to point out framing as the poster's opinion. A recommendation, that you are welcome to agree or disagree with, or think good or bad; but it is not an assertion nor a categorical demand or instruction. It's a person's opinion, which are among the things often shared here.
the conversation absolutely includes statements about what we all can and should do.
We're really verging on being pedantic, but no, it doesn't: it includes statements about what some people think we should do, or recommend. I have not read any categorical statements, presented as fact, that demand specific action on someone else's part. If you disagree with the comment you quoted, it's OK to say so, and share why--the conversation will be more rich and interesting for it. But when an opinion is responded to as a definite assertion, it reframes the essential nature of the conversation from 'experiences with social media, good or bad?' to 'don't you tell me what to do.' When that happens, it's most often no longer a meaningful conversation.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:38 AM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Emphasis mine, to point out framing as the poster's opinion. A recommendation, that you are welcome to agree or disagree with, or think good or bad; but it is not an assertion nor a categorical demand or instruction. It's a person's opinion, which are among the things often shared here.
the conversation absolutely includes statements about what we all can and should do.
We're really verging on being pedantic, but no, it doesn't: it includes statements about what some people think we should do, or recommend. I have not read any categorical statements, presented as fact, that demand specific action on someone else's part. If you disagree with the comment you quoted, it's OK to say so, and share why--the conversation will be more rich and interesting for it. But when an opinion is responded to as a definite assertion, it reframes the essential nature of the conversation from 'experiences with social media, good or bad?' to 'don't you tell me what to do.' When that happens, it's most often no longer a meaningful conversation.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:38 AM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
I still get a fair amount of value out of Facebook and Twitter, but it takes a lot of effort.
Facebook is my declared "friends and family content only" zone, and I enforce this ruthlessly. I unfriend or unfollow people who consistently start fights, and I make heavy use of the "hide all from [page]" option. I hide specific posts which I know will annoy me. I have permanently hidden many news sources I agree with/appreciate/give money to, because they do not belong in this space. The result is a website which mostly consists of people's pets, children, activities, and major life events. It's not no-politics, but the politics which gets through is mostly "I care deeply about this and took the time to write about it", which I want to see because I care about these people.
My Twitter feed is also pretty heavily curated, and I regularly unfollow accounts which don't post things I value on a consistent basis; but I don't go scorched-earth the way I do for Facebook. A lot of unrelated stuff gets through, but I value the serendipity and fresh perspectives... and I go on Twitter explicitly for that, and try to open the app only when I know I have the energy. I do, however, block pre-emptively when I see someone being an asshole to other people, not just to me.
Like I said, all this takes a lot of work and energy, and is definitely not for everyone. I live far from home, and have for years; and I've only lived in my current location for six months. I make friends slowly, so in-person relationships are thin on the ground. So, I value these tools; but I don't judge anyone who decides to opt out.
posted by fencerjimmy at 9:42 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Facebook is my declared "friends and family content only" zone, and I enforce this ruthlessly. I unfriend or unfollow people who consistently start fights, and I make heavy use of the "hide all from [page]" option. I hide specific posts which I know will annoy me. I have permanently hidden many news sources I agree with/appreciate/give money to, because they do not belong in this space. The result is a website which mostly consists of people's pets, children, activities, and major life events. It's not no-politics, but the politics which gets through is mostly "I care deeply about this and took the time to write about it", which I want to see because I care about these people.
My Twitter feed is also pretty heavily curated, and I regularly unfollow accounts which don't post things I value on a consistent basis; but I don't go scorched-earth the way I do for Facebook. A lot of unrelated stuff gets through, but I value the serendipity and fresh perspectives... and I go on Twitter explicitly for that, and try to open the app only when I know I have the energy. I do, however, block pre-emptively when I see someone being an asshole to other people, not just to me.
Like I said, all this takes a lot of work and energy, and is definitely not for everyone. I live far from home, and have for years; and I've only lived in my current location for six months. I make friends slowly, so in-person relationships are thin on the ground. So, I value these tools; but I don't judge anyone who decides to opt out.
posted by fencerjimmy at 9:42 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I think I've been pretty consistent in stating "If you hate Facebook and feel that it's harming you, you can quit." I've never said "Everyone must quit." It's not a moral judgment on people who enjoy using Facebook.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:44 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:44 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
There is a certain level of self-righteousness in the "just delete FB and go live your real life outside social media!" that for all bits I kinda agree with, rankles me. I mean, I'm on it but I am not really on it. My sister posts pics of my nieces there, which is nice because I am so far away. My favourite people from the UK on there because Barbelith gave me a wealth of friends that I only get to visit every other year if I'm lucky. I have two Twitter accounts--one personal that is suffering from neglect, and the other for my podcast which is a great lifeline to women working in craft beer and keeping up with news about said subject--and I know Twitter is pretty awful across the board, but when you ignore that it is also a platform for WOC/POC/LGBTQ because no one's rushing to give them inches in a newspaper or blog, that especially irritates me.
I think I use Instagram most of all because allowing it to push through to FB and Twitter means I can just do that instead of posting individually on those outlets. Also I love taking pictures.
Performative authenticity doesn't just apply to social media; it also applies to not participating in it too.
posted by Kitteh at 9:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think I use Instagram most of all because allowing it to push through to FB and Twitter means I can just do that instead of posting individually on those outlets. Also I love taking pictures.
Performative authenticity doesn't just apply to social media; it also applies to not participating in it too.
posted by Kitteh at 9:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]
Emphasis mine, to point out framing as the poster's opinion.
Throwing "I think" in front of categorical statements does not make them any less categorical. "I think a pound is more than a kilo" is no less wrong for it, and "I think you should do x, everyone can" is no less a statement about what you can and should do. Jfc.
posted by Dysk at 9:49 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Throwing "I think" in front of categorical statements does not make them any less categorical. "I think a pound is more than a kilo" is no less wrong for it, and "I think you should do x, everyone can" is no less a statement about what you can and should do. Jfc.
posted by Dysk at 9:49 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fine, since we're all being tepid and circumspect here, I'll wade into the deep end:
Algorithmic social networks are thought control. Whatever personal and societal value people wring out of them mainly serves to augment the power of the network itself rather than undermine it.
Run as quickly and as far away as you can, or you're part of the problem.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:49 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
Algorithmic social networks are thought control. Whatever personal and societal value people wring out of them mainly serves to augment the power of the network itself rather than undermine it.
Run as quickly and as far away as you can, or you're part of the problem.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:49 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
That seems like a rather mean-spirited way to not even remotely engage with any of the other comments here talking about how and why people use social networks, tobascodagama.
posted by sagc at 9:53 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by sagc at 9:53 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'd just as readily argue that if a website can control your thoughts, you're part of the problem whatever you do.
posted by Dysk at 9:57 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 9:57 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
My feelin is... I'm not here for your entertainment. If I was, I'd be getting paid for it. Since so many folks will do it for free, I just can't compete with them. Do what you do, I hope you feel like you're being compensated fairly for your participation. That's also why I don't participate here very much -- the pay's lousy and the critics are obviously better funded than I am.
posted by some loser at 10:01 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by some loser at 10:01 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
When I say that social media is enclosure, I mean that it also functions like the enclosure of common lands and tribal lands, in that the precise point is to eliminate the outside. You can't just say, "well, if I lived on my ancestors' lands back before nation states, I could hunt and gather, therefore I'm going to give up on working for cash", you have to work for cash and pay the rent, because force has been used to make this necessary.
It's possible to envision a socialist social media, where (as toxic as individual dynamics might sometimes be) group dynamics would not rest on the need to perform the self in order to have access to the necessities of life and/or t he social connections with which to access them. Under socialist social media, people wouldn't need to stick to toxic communication systems because they would not be forced to live far from everyone they actually know and care about - and staying in a crummy situation when you know you can leave any time is very different from being forced to stay in a crummy situation. I mean, some of social media's problems seem intrinsic to the format, but even those problems are obviously exacerbated by economic and social precarity and by discrimination against marginalized people.
Some small fraction of people can opt out of many of the worst parts of capitalism - some people are able to make a living, like, making hand-carved furniture or in a secure union job with a pension. That's great, and I think that everyone who can opt out should. But most people can't, because the system doesn't work that way. Opting out means death. Similarly, some people can opt out of social media, and IMO this is worth it. But for the vast majority of people, opting out of social media makes life unsustainable.
I mean, you can quit eating, sleeping and living under a roof, too, but that's unlikely to lead anywhere good.
posted by Frowner at 10:02 AM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's possible to envision a socialist social media, where (as toxic as individual dynamics might sometimes be) group dynamics would not rest on the need to perform the self in order to have access to the necessities of life and/or t he social connections with which to access them. Under socialist social media, people wouldn't need to stick to toxic communication systems because they would not be forced to live far from everyone they actually know and care about - and staying in a crummy situation when you know you can leave any time is very different from being forced to stay in a crummy situation. I mean, some of social media's problems seem intrinsic to the format, but even those problems are obviously exacerbated by economic and social precarity and by discrimination against marginalized people.
Some small fraction of people can opt out of many of the worst parts of capitalism - some people are able to make a living, like, making hand-carved furniture or in a secure union job with a pension. That's great, and I think that everyone who can opt out should. But most people can't, because the system doesn't work that way. Opting out means death. Similarly, some people can opt out of social media, and IMO this is worth it. But for the vast majority of people, opting out of social media makes life unsustainable.
I mean, you can quit eating, sleeping and living under a roof, too, but that's unlikely to lead anywhere good.
posted by Frowner at 10:02 AM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you hate FB but can't get off FB for some reason, I cannot recommend FB Purity enough. This FB add-on lets you hide ANYTHING that FB throws at you. Incredibly granular controls. Seriously, it turns a billboard-filled hellscape into something much closer to a drive through a forest. Check it out.
posted by nushustu at 10:04 AM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by nushustu at 10:04 AM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]
Never once have I been in a situation where I missed an event or an invitation.How would you know?
"I wish I could quit." You can! You can! Quit!You miss my point, and the point others have made. You can't leave FB and continue to participate in groups that make their home on Facebook and do all their coordination on Facebook. So, yeah, you can quit -- if you never want to hear about (for example) the group rides I do most weekends with a variety of groups to which I'm tangentially connected.
There are definitely some people who can't manage a relationship with you without using Facebook- I've found that the reorganization of my life around people who are actually capable of having an in-person relationship with me has been profoundly beneficial.It's not actual FRIENDS that keep me on Facebook. It's groups. I suspect this is true for most people who'd like to leave it.
posted by uberchet at 10:07 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
If anyone is still in doubt about the existence of comments telling people what they can and can't do:
You can! You can! Quit!
The statement people make is almost never "there was nothing stopping me from quitting" it's always "there's nothing stopping you".
posted by Dysk at 10:10 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
You can! You can! Quit!
The statement people make is almost never "there was nothing stopping me from quitting" it's always "there's nothing stopping you".
posted by Dysk at 10:10 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's because all these people that they don't know and will likely never meet have formed emotional bonds with an imagined, mediated version of them, and because you are demanding their energy and effort (I READ BARTHES BECAUSE OF YOU) to fulfill your emotional need.
when I think of all the crap they must teach in high school, it rather shocks me that there seems to be nothing along the lines of "How to Maintain Healthy Relationships with People You've Never Actually Met, but who through current communication technology you have the illusion of knowing rather well" -- the key word in there being ILLUSION. Maybe get it out of the way in Grade Eight or Nine with refresher bits in subsequent years ...
I think we all need some re-evaluation of physical locality and the sustainability of friendships. If you have friends who really only know you or interact with you via Facebook, then you may be artificially sustaining relationships that previously would have evolved differently.
Way back when, 2000 or 2001, when the DOT.com I worked for ran out of things for me to do but not money to keep paying me, I started self-contracting -- defining jobs for myself that seemed relevant and then pursuing them until somebody told me to stop. The most fruitful of these jobs concerned what was then the big deal challenge of Building Online Community. For a few weeks, I did nothing but chase down (online) discussions where people were talking this sort of stuff through.
One conclusion was consistent. You Can't Build Functional Online Community From Nothing. There Has To Be A Real World Component. In other words, unless you were dealing with people who already got together occasionally out in the real world, in the same room, looked each other in the eye, then you had to figure out a way to build this dynamic into the online community you were trying to build. Because, bluntly, for a majority of humans, online chats and discussions and arguments with what amounted to virtual friends/enemies/whatever was NOT community.
At some point, the DOT.com (that kept paying me regardless of what I was doing) called me in for a strategy discussion about, of all things, building online community. Big surprise to them, I hit them with a pretty well formulated study complete with a few conclusions and recommendations within a week or two. They took one look at the part about online community not being functional unless it was backed up by a real world component and promptly decided I was not the person they wanted to be talking to.
Anyway, that was then, this is more than fifteen years later. That company has long since ceased to exist and here we all are mucking around in a brave new world of wonder and miracles and online "communication" so dysfunctional it's given us whatzizname as president (among other clusterf***s of stupidity so absurd that all you can do is laugh, but it hurts to laugh, so then you cry, but that hurts too).
I too will speak up again for being on Facebook. (Note I didn't say "for Facebook".)
Oddly enough, for all I just said, Facebook does sort of work for me. Probably because, consistent with my research from way back when, I do actually know most of the folks I'm "friends" with. We may not have seen each other in a few years, but regardless of what frustrations we may feel with each other, we are confident that the other is real, and thus a certain respect comes naturally. Yes, a few rather complete strangers have infiltrated my network, but for whatever reason (perhaps because the ratio of known to unknown is high enough), they haven't proven disruptive at all -- they actually seem very cool people, and if I ever win the lottery, one of my dreams would be to invite them all to come visit, all expenses paid. That would be the right kind of weird.
posted by philip-random at 10:12 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
when I think of all the crap they must teach in high school, it rather shocks me that there seems to be nothing along the lines of "How to Maintain Healthy Relationships with People You've Never Actually Met, but who through current communication technology you have the illusion of knowing rather well" -- the key word in there being ILLUSION. Maybe get it out of the way in Grade Eight or Nine with refresher bits in subsequent years ...
I think we all need some re-evaluation of physical locality and the sustainability of friendships. If you have friends who really only know you or interact with you via Facebook, then you may be artificially sustaining relationships that previously would have evolved differently.
Way back when, 2000 or 2001, when the DOT.com I worked for ran out of things for me to do but not money to keep paying me, I started self-contracting -- defining jobs for myself that seemed relevant and then pursuing them until somebody told me to stop. The most fruitful of these jobs concerned what was then the big deal challenge of Building Online Community. For a few weeks, I did nothing but chase down (online) discussions where people were talking this sort of stuff through.
One conclusion was consistent. You Can't Build Functional Online Community From Nothing. There Has To Be A Real World Component. In other words, unless you were dealing with people who already got together occasionally out in the real world, in the same room, looked each other in the eye, then you had to figure out a way to build this dynamic into the online community you were trying to build. Because, bluntly, for a majority of humans, online chats and discussions and arguments with what amounted to virtual friends/enemies/whatever was NOT community.
At some point, the DOT.com (that kept paying me regardless of what I was doing) called me in for a strategy discussion about, of all things, building online community. Big surprise to them, I hit them with a pretty well formulated study complete with a few conclusions and recommendations within a week or two. They took one look at the part about online community not being functional unless it was backed up by a real world component and promptly decided I was not the person they wanted to be talking to.
Anyway, that was then, this is more than fifteen years later. That company has long since ceased to exist and here we all are mucking around in a brave new world of wonder and miracles and online "communication" so dysfunctional it's given us whatzizname as president (among other clusterf***s of stupidity so absurd that all you can do is laugh, but it hurts to laugh, so then you cry, but that hurts too).
I too will speak up again for being on Facebook. (Note I didn't say "for Facebook".)
Oddly enough, for all I just said, Facebook does sort of work for me. Probably because, consistent with my research from way back when, I do actually know most of the folks I'm "friends" with. We may not have seen each other in a few years, but regardless of what frustrations we may feel with each other, we are confident that the other is real, and thus a certain respect comes naturally. Yes, a few rather complete strangers have infiltrated my network, but for whatever reason (perhaps because the ratio of known to unknown is high enough), they haven't proven disruptive at all -- they actually seem very cool people, and if I ever win the lottery, one of my dreams would be to invite them all to come visit, all expenses paid. That would be the right kind of weird.
posted by philip-random at 10:12 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I simply do not understand the hate for FB. I use it. I skim past pics of people's kids, and uninteresting boring stuff. I do not have Nazis or anything remotely like them as friends. My brother and I share links with each other, and I pass on links that my friends might find interesting, or funny.
I also don't understand people getting "news" from FB. The content on FB is as easy to ignore as any other content. Why such hate?
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:12 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I also don't understand people getting "news" from FB. The content on FB is as easy to ignore as any other content. Why such hate?
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:12 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Look, if you *enjoy* using facebook, by all means continue using it. The fact is that the consensus among most people seems to be, "I hate it but I can't stop.
That's neither a consensus nor a fact. Don't confuse people who are vocal about something that you agree with as a representative sample of a 2 billion person user group. I know from previous discussions that there is a sizable group of people who honestly don't care one way or another, use it occasionally, and would be fine if Facebook exists or doesn't.
posted by notorious medium at 10:20 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's neither a consensus nor a fact. Don't confuse people who are vocal about something that you agree with as a representative sample of a 2 billion person user group. I know from previous discussions that there is a sizable group of people who honestly don't care one way or another, use it occasionally, and would be fine if Facebook exists or doesn't.
posted by notorious medium at 10:20 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Another vote for FB Purity. I also regularly tell Facebook "I don't like this ad" or whatever, and also if I have someone constantly sharing dumb shit from political sites (I am very political, but please save your lefty content farm clickbait) I'll use the "Hide all from _____" or "Hide this post/show me less like this" options. Those things have been pretty effective and probably have put me in some kind of too-obsessively-narrow "doesn't like anything, probably a serial killer" user profile box. I also don't post to my own wall at all, ever. I'm on FB entirely because of a couple of groups, so my own wall is pristine (also, I don't use my real name because fuck a pile of that). I don't use the FB app on my phone, I just use my browser. People in my Real Life have no idea I'm even on FB because that is a huge DO NOT WANT for me. If you're my IRL friend, we can interact IRL. My FB friends are just people from the groups I'm in that I added as friends before I decided actually no, that's dumb, we're all in the group. But I didn't want to unfriend them because that can come off poorly. But I do not now respond to friend requests.
(Twitter also I sometimes respond to someone else's tweet, but I don't tweet on my own timeline. I just have it because when there's breaking news sometimes it's useful, and also I can tweet at my elected representatives, which is useless but makes me feel better.)
Also, Privacy Badger browser extension identifies and blocks many forms of web tracking. I use it, too.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:22 AM on November 30, 2017
(Twitter also I sometimes respond to someone else's tweet, but I don't tweet on my own timeline. I just have it because when there's breaking news sometimes it's useful, and also I can tweet at my elected representatives, which is useless but makes me feel better.)
Also, Privacy Badger browser extension identifies and blocks many forms of web tracking. I use it, too.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:22 AM on November 30, 2017
Why such hate?
I never see nazis, I don't have ranty acquaintances in my feed, and I have never used FB as a news source.
That said, something about the election of 45, and how that is intertwined with a sea change in how we as a culture (or set of cultures) find and assimilate information, soured me overnight on what FB does. The other part of it has always been true: I am the product being sold when I engage there.
I haven't buttoned my account there, but I've pretty well ghosted. The linked essay was thoughtful and nicely written, thanks, OP. I had not been aware of either of those writers.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:24 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I never see nazis, I don't have ranty acquaintances in my feed, and I have never used FB as a news source.
That said, something about the election of 45, and how that is intertwined with a sea change in how we as a culture (or set of cultures) find and assimilate information, soured me overnight on what FB does. The other part of it has always been true: I am the product being sold when I engage there.
I haven't buttoned my account there, but I've pretty well ghosted. The linked essay was thoughtful and nicely written, thanks, OP. I had not been aware of either of those writers.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:24 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
Facebook has become impossible to escape. Even my own mother, not exactly a techie, the other day told my dad, "Not having a Facebook is like not having email or a cell phone!". It's true. I deleted my FB for a year, I didn't miss it.
The problem was I spent that entire year running into friends having this exact conversation over and over again:
"Hey bradbane, we missed you at the [party/bike ride/concert/potluck]!"
"Oh really, when was that?"
"Oh didn't I invite you on Facebook??"
Everything is planned on Facebook Events these days and there is no Plan B to communicate outside of that anymore.
Twitter though, I really struggle to see why anyone spends time on Twitter. It is a total cesspool with no redeeming value. People seem too in love with their own one-liners to let it go though.
posted by bradbane at 10:24 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
The problem was I spent that entire year running into friends having this exact conversation over and over again:
"Hey bradbane, we missed you at the [party/bike ride/concert/potluck]!"
"Oh really, when was that?"
"Oh didn't I invite you on Facebook??"
Everything is planned on Facebook Events these days and there is no Plan B to communicate outside of that anymore.
Twitter though, I really struggle to see why anyone spends time on Twitter. It is a total cesspool with no redeeming value. People seem too in love with their own one-liners to let it go though.
posted by bradbane at 10:24 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dysk, telling someone what they can do, is very different from telling them to do or not do something. There’s a weird defensiveness from people here about the fact that a lot of people have an unpleasant and addictive relationship with facebook. We’re not talking about people’s beneficial, helpful, highly moderated through plugins use of facebook. I, at least, am talking to people like myself, who found that facebook is harming them but feel like they can’t quit.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 10:25 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 10:25 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Twitter is only a cesspool of no redeeming value if you assemble a follow list of shitty people.
Because there's less societal/social pressure to connect with people there, you can curate your list without offending Aunt Nancy because you won't accept her friend request.
On Twitter, I follow a bunch of famous clever people (e.g., Scalzi), several people I met on the nerd cruise, and a handful of people I actually know in real life. I also never read more than the last 150 tweets in my timeline. It's fine for that; no cesspool required.
The problem is that its management is, apparently, exclusively spineless shitheels.
posted by uberchet at 10:28 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because there's less societal/social pressure to connect with people there, you can curate your list without offending Aunt Nancy because you won't accept her friend request.
On Twitter, I follow a bunch of famous clever people (e.g., Scalzi), several people I met on the nerd cruise, and a handful of people I actually know in real life. I also never read more than the last 150 tweets in my timeline. It's fine for that; no cesspool required.
The problem is that its management is, apparently, exclusively spineless shitheels.
posted by uberchet at 10:28 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are no famous people or friends or associates I want to hear 140 character musings from. I just don't see much value at all in the medium, there are better time wasting opportunities on the internet. If someone has interesting thoughts I'll read their book or op-ed or blog post. My friends all have my number and can (and do!) text me their dumb jokes directly.
I seriously think the only reason Twitter continues to exist is because lazy journalists use it to get attributed quotes without doing any actual work. Every time I turn on cable news it's just people reading tweets to the camera.
posted by bradbane at 10:34 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I seriously think the only reason Twitter continues to exist is because lazy journalists use it to get attributed quotes without doing any actual work. Every time I turn on cable news it's just people reading tweets to the camera.
posted by bradbane at 10:34 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've found interesting links through twitter. Just like I've found interesting links here. It's just a thing.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:37 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:37 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I see very few political posts. All my friends talk about their families and what's going on with themselves. It's a precious view into their lives, we all appreciate one another, and FB has actually become a haven for us against this political noise people claim it represents.
Me too. I use FB for a small handful of things - sharing stuff with family, neighborhood groups, etc. If someone posts political content, then I unfollow them while remaining friends. I don't mind them sharing that stuff on their own wall, but I don't want it in my newsfeed.
I basically quit Twitter after realizing that all I was doing was arguing and shitposting. Not much lost, in my experience, and I still see the news when Dear Leader writes something controversial. (Apparently the latest thing is retweeting some controversial British right-wing leader or something.)
posted by theorique at 10:42 AM on November 30, 2017
Me too. I use FB for a small handful of things - sharing stuff with family, neighborhood groups, etc. If someone posts political content, then I unfollow them while remaining friends. I don't mind them sharing that stuff on their own wall, but I don't want it in my newsfeed.
I basically quit Twitter after realizing that all I was doing was arguing and shitposting. Not much lost, in my experience, and I still see the news when Dear Leader writes something controversial. (Apparently the latest thing is retweeting some controversial British right-wing leader or something.)
posted by theorique at 10:42 AM on November 30, 2017
There are no famous people or friends or associates I want to hear 140 character musings from.That just means it's not an interesting place for YOU. It doesn't make it "a total cesspool with no redeeming value," which was your assertion.
posted by uberchet at 10:44 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I simply do not understand the hate for FB.
It's a Marshall Mac Luan story of thing. Nobody really gives a shit about TV anymore, so another mass media format has to be selected in order to be the great evil, that we, drooling peasants that we are, have no choice but to allow to dominate our lives.
posted by happyroach at 10:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's a Marshall Mac Luan story of thing. Nobody really gives a shit about TV anymore, so another mass media format has to be selected in order to be the great evil, that we, drooling peasants that we are, have no choice but to allow to dominate our lives.
posted by happyroach at 10:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Twitter is only a cesspool of no redeeming value if you assemble a follow list of shitty people.
The CanLit Civil War of 2015-16 seems to suggest otherwise, unless you think of Canada's so-called literary community as a bunch of shitty people.
Sometimes, I think you have to accept that there's something inherently dysfunctional in a technology, regardless of what it's intentions may be.
posted by philip-random at 10:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
The CanLit Civil War of 2015-16 seems to suggest otherwise, unless you think of Canada's so-called literary community as a bunch of shitty people.
Sometimes, I think you have to accept that there's something inherently dysfunctional in a technology, regardless of what it's intentions may be.
posted by philip-random at 10:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just think there's something hilarious about watching people rail against FB for destroying in-person social bonds and forcing people to worry about their online persona... on a website where we're all posting pseudonymously from our individual homes/offices/underground bunkers.
posted by palomar at 10:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by palomar at 10:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]
I took a break from FB during Lent last year and decided not to go back at the end of it. Twitter is easier for me to segregate bad stuff because my followers and the people I follow aren't close friends or family, for the most part. I see stuff that offends me, I choose to engage or not, it's not a big deal. It feels like a bunch of people chatting at the bus stop. I feels easy to step out when I don't want to continue a bad conversation.
But Facebook was a fairly constant set of ethical dilemmas baiting me and taking up my day-: do I response to the horribly racist thing my aunt shared from The Rebel and alienate a great deal of my family by repeating opinions they already know I have, while possibly inadvertently sharing the offensive content with my friends? Do I ignore it and feel like I'm copping out of emotional labour? And if with people I'm fairly on the same page with values-wise, the conversations felt fraught, and there is so much pile-on if I misspoke. This is all compounded with how difficult is was to control notifications. (I swear I had set preference not to receive notifications to a conversation I wanted out of and I still continued to get them for hours afterwards.)
I miss the kind of fulsome engagement I used to get from long-form platforms like LiveJournal back in the day, and I feel like Facebook is filling that gap for a lot of people these days. But it doesn't have the same quality. Even though I miss some social opportunities, and some news of folks I don't see elsewhere, I'm happier and less stressed without Facebook.
The other advantage was that I started having one on one text message conversations with my sister, and my connection to her feels way more genuine than when we just saw each others' FB statuses that were broadcast to everyone.
posted by Kurichina at 10:58 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
But Facebook was a fairly constant set of ethical dilemmas baiting me and taking up my day-: do I response to the horribly racist thing my aunt shared from The Rebel and alienate a great deal of my family by repeating opinions they already know I have, while possibly inadvertently sharing the offensive content with my friends? Do I ignore it and feel like I'm copping out of emotional labour? And if with people I'm fairly on the same page with values-wise, the conversations felt fraught, and there is so much pile-on if I misspoke. This is all compounded with how difficult is was to control notifications. (I swear I had set preference not to receive notifications to a conversation I wanted out of and I still continued to get them for hours afterwards.)
I miss the kind of fulsome engagement I used to get from long-form platforms like LiveJournal back in the day, and I feel like Facebook is filling that gap for a lot of people these days. But it doesn't have the same quality. Even though I miss some social opportunities, and some news of folks I don't see elsewhere, I'm happier and less stressed without Facebook.
The other advantage was that I started having one on one text message conversations with my sister, and my connection to her feels way more genuine than when we just saw each others' FB statuses that were broadcast to everyone.
posted by Kurichina at 10:58 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I recently had a Facebook "friend" go off on me. In the course of trying to figure out what the hell her problem was, I realized that she considers Facebook "friends" the same as IRL friends, and she was offended that the only time I ever interacted with her was when she posted something about politics, never about things in her life that she posted (among other reasons).
I have nothing in common with this person, and if it weren't for Facebook, I probably wouldn't have seen her in 15 years. I mean, in no way are we IRL friends in my opinion.
Long ago I pared my Facebook friends down (mostly) to people I consider friends or at least very like-minded in certain ways. As a result of this recent ugly interaction, I'm more careful about only responding to people who are actual friends, and I'm thinking about unfriending others who fall into the same category as her who didn't make the earlier cut.
posted by tippiedog at 11:03 AM on November 30, 2017
I have nothing in common with this person, and if it weren't for Facebook, I probably wouldn't have seen her in 15 years. I mean, in no way are we IRL friends in my opinion.
Long ago I pared my Facebook friends down (mostly) to people I consider friends or at least very like-minded in certain ways. As a result of this recent ugly interaction, I'm more careful about only responding to people who are actual friends, and I'm thinking about unfriending others who fall into the same category as her who didn't make the earlier cut.
posted by tippiedog at 11:03 AM on November 30, 2017
I completely understand why people use facebook. They use is for all of the reasons, in addition to many more, that I used it for seven years. Then, as is the subject of this article, I very quickly tired of it and knew I needed to get off. After I left, I had several people tell me that they were envious, they also felt it had grown more negative than positive for them, they wanted to quit, but didn't because they were fearful of missing out. For those kinds of people -- who are, I think, not an insubstantial group -- it is helpful to hear that quitting is an option and that you can have a happy and socially connected life without it.
When I've suggested to these people that quitting facebook is an option I'm not saying that using facebook is bad. And as far as I can tell, no one has no one has ever taken it that way when we've discussed it face-to-face. People sometimes need encouragement to go against social norms even when they know that is what they want to do because there is opprobrium for acting in even harmlessly deviant ways. Not being on facebook is ever-so-mildly deviant, at this point in time, due to its ubiquity.
posted by scantee at 11:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
When I've suggested to these people that quitting facebook is an option I'm not saying that using facebook is bad. And as far as I can tell, no one has no one has ever taken it that way when we've discussed it face-to-face. People sometimes need encouragement to go against social norms even when they know that is what they want to do because there is opprobrium for acting in even harmlessly deviant ways. Not being on facebook is ever-so-mildly deviant, at this point in time, due to its ubiquity.
posted by scantee at 11:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
I just think there's something hilarious about watching people rail against FB for destroying in-person social bonds and forcing people to worry about their online persona... on a website where we're all posting pseudonymously from our individual homes/offices/underground bunkers.
Mister Gotcha.
posted by scantee at 11:05 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mister Gotcha.
posted by scantee at 11:05 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Twitter though, I really struggle to see why anyone spends time on Twitter. It is a total cesspool with no redeeming value. People seem too in love with their own one-liners to let it go though.
(1) It's a good place to follow a weather event, terrorist attack, accident, police action, celebrity visit, or other rapidly changing event in real time
(2) If you curate, curate, curate, your follow lists very aggressively, it can be a useful news stream from your community, professional field, or other group of people. You can become aware of things this way that you would not otherwise know.
There are probably other reasons but these are the ones that come to mind.
posted by theorique at 11:08 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
(1) It's a good place to follow a weather event, terrorist attack, accident, police action, celebrity visit, or other rapidly changing event in real time
(2) If you curate, curate, curate, your follow lists very aggressively, it can be a useful news stream from your community, professional field, or other group of people. You can become aware of things this way that you would not otherwise know.
There are probably other reasons but these are the ones that come to mind.
posted by theorique at 11:08 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's interesting to me when I hear about Facebook as a source of interpersonal drama or political angst. For me, it's never been either.
Now, on the political front that's probably because I'm only connected to people with whom I agree. This is not necessarily a great thing, but it's how things worked out and it's not like I'm going to go seek people out to be my Facebook friends so that we can argue about politics. I have never once posted about politics. I'm happy to talk about politics with friends in person, but Facebook just seems an ill-suited venue for that.
As for the interpersonal drama, I guess it depends on the people in play. Maybe it's like email because you can't hear inflection and tone and people misunderstand things? I don't know. The people I know don't have much drama offline or online.
Anyway. I have like one friend every 500 miles, so Facebook is where I see them all. I wish I saw them more in person, but I don't and Facebook is a very imperfect substitute for that. I like seeing first day of school photos, hearing about funny things kids said, looking at vacation pics, etc. I have some smart, interesting Facebook friends.
I also don't have very many FB friends, which my casual observation suggests may actually increase its value to me.
posted by veggieboy at 11:16 AM on November 30, 2017
Now, on the political front that's probably because I'm only connected to people with whom I agree. This is not necessarily a great thing, but it's how things worked out and it's not like I'm going to go seek people out to be my Facebook friends so that we can argue about politics. I have never once posted about politics. I'm happy to talk about politics with friends in person, but Facebook just seems an ill-suited venue for that.
As for the interpersonal drama, I guess it depends on the people in play. Maybe it's like email because you can't hear inflection and tone and people misunderstand things? I don't know. The people I know don't have much drama offline or online.
Anyway. I have like one friend every 500 miles, so Facebook is where I see them all. I wish I saw them more in person, but I don't and Facebook is a very imperfect substitute for that. I like seeing first day of school photos, hearing about funny things kids said, looking at vacation pics, etc. I have some smart, interesting Facebook friends.
I also don't have very many FB friends, which my casual observation suggests may actually increase its value to me.
posted by veggieboy at 11:16 AM on November 30, 2017
I agree with theorique's (1) and (2), and I'll add
(3) It is one of the only consistent ways to access work by PoC, given that the majority of mainstream publications and media outlets consistently marginalize them (see: Ijeoma Oluo's recent interaction with a major US newspaper for a particularly egregious example)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:17 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
(3) It is one of the only consistent ways to access work by PoC, given that the majority of mainstream publications and media outlets consistently marginalize them (see: Ijeoma Oluo's recent interaction with a major US newspaper for a particularly egregious example)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:17 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
Any "value" Facebook generates for you, personally, is valuable to Facebook itself mainly because it keeps you locked in and producing profit for Facebook. Worse still, the value you generate serves to lock in other users. Your efforts feed the machine directly.
Said profit arises directly from Facebook's ability to modify what you see to suit the preferences of people with money. This is the value they provide to their advertisers and investors: we control what the world sees.
However smart you think you are, you can only react to the information that ends up in front of you. Facebook's entire business model revolves around controlling what information ends up in front of you.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:20 AM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Said profit arises directly from Facebook's ability to modify what you see to suit the preferences of people with money. This is the value they provide to their advertisers and investors: we control what the world sees.
However smart you think you are, you can only react to the information that ends up in front of you. Facebook's entire business model revolves around controlling what information ends up in front of you.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:20 AM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
As far as I can tell, facebook isn't changing the text of messages I send to my friends, nor is it silently hiding events that venues post to their pages. So... maybe the way people interact with facebook isn't always about the newsfeed and the advertising surrounding it?
posted by sagc at 11:23 AM on November 30, 2017
posted by sagc at 11:23 AM on November 30, 2017
Sure, scantee, you can look at it as a gotcha, or you can try to be even the slightest bit charitable. Your call!
posted by palomar at 11:23 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by palomar at 11:23 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Truly, though. Some people find FB useful, just like everyone commenting in this thread clearly finds MetaFilter useful... and yet, my friends who don't use MetaFilter are amazed or even flabbergasted that I'm willing to spend my time discussing current events and other issues with complete strangers I'll never meet face to face or have any kind of "real" relationship with. Are our relationships in this space "real"? Can we actually have a legitimate online community? If you'd say yes to those questions without hesitating but would deny that FB provides others those things... why?
posted by palomar at 11:30 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by palomar at 11:30 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
A party where you’re always simultaneously at the party and getting ready for the party. Did it exhaust you?
YES.
Some of my neighbors and I have started a nonprofit community org, and that's what finally dragged me back to Facebook. I was gone, I was happy, but then I realized that all the organizing was happening behind my back and I was left out of the loop. Not intentionally, you see, but it happened anyway because Facebook is how people communicate. I asked if they would be willing to drop me an email or a text or even (horror of ancient horrors) call me on the phone when there was something to discuss. "Yeah, sure," I heard. Then nothing. It was either Be On Facebook or Be Ignored.
So I swore a lot and finally created a really bare-bones account where all of my friends are members of that group, and I all I do is interact with that group. But slowly, insidiously, Facebook is sneaking into my life. Old friends somehow figured out who I was (I use a pseudonym on Facebook - Elly Ess instead of Elly lastname-that-starts-with-S) and friended me. Then old college friends. Then the ads came. Then I felt bad about deleting people when they posted too much. Then I started getting tagged in pictures and stuff and I had to untag myself. And so on and so on and voila! Back on Facebook.
I fucking hate it. I'm going to delete it today. The nonprofit will just have to deal.
Twitter: I have an account that follows my 17-year-old niece, a bunch of baseball writers, local weather, and local news. I'd get rid of that too but my niece posts videos of herself playing the guitar and singing and I can't miss that.
posted by Elly Vortex at 11:32 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
YES.
Some of my neighbors and I have started a nonprofit community org, and that's what finally dragged me back to Facebook. I was gone, I was happy, but then I realized that all the organizing was happening behind my back and I was left out of the loop. Not intentionally, you see, but it happened anyway because Facebook is how people communicate. I asked if they would be willing to drop me an email or a text or even (horror of ancient horrors) call me on the phone when there was something to discuss. "Yeah, sure," I heard. Then nothing. It was either Be On Facebook or Be Ignored.
So I swore a lot and finally created a really bare-bones account where all of my friends are members of that group, and I all I do is interact with that group. But slowly, insidiously, Facebook is sneaking into my life. Old friends somehow figured out who I was (I use a pseudonym on Facebook - Elly Ess instead of Elly lastname-that-starts-with-S) and friended me. Then old college friends. Then the ads came. Then I felt bad about deleting people when they posted too much. Then I started getting tagged in pictures and stuff and I had to untag myself. And so on and so on and voila! Back on Facebook.
I fucking hate it. I'm going to delete it today. The nonprofit will just have to deal.
Twitter: I have an account that follows my 17-year-old niece, a bunch of baseball writers, local weather, and local news. I'd get rid of that too but my niece posts videos of herself playing the guitar and singing and I can't miss that.
posted by Elly Vortex at 11:32 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Good timing for this, as I've just recently discussed FB with an elderly relative, who came onto FB mostly to keep up with other relatives, but is thinking of closing down her account again. Much of our discussion centered around a mutual relative who is not doing too well, but whose social presence is somewhat toxic. I end up blocking rather than unfriending, myself. And I will admit that I've friended a few people that I used to be meatspace friends with, and find them so agreeable that I have started asking myself why we didn't stay friends.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:45 AM on November 30, 2017
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:45 AM on November 30, 2017
Some small fraction of people can opt out of many of the worst parts of capitalism - some people are able to make a living, like, making hand-carved furniture or in a secure union job with a pension. That's great, and I think that everyone who can opt out should. But most people can't, because the system doesn't work that way. Opting out means death. Similarly, some people can opt out of social media, and IMO this is worth it. But for the vast majority of people, opting out of social media makes life unsustainable.
This seems hyperbolic. Even given how many American adults "use" social media, making life unsustainable is over the top.
I mean, you can quit eating, sleeping and living under a roof, too, but that's unlikely to lead anywhere good.
These things are not the same at all. If anything, it's more like "stop eating fast food."
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:38 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
This seems hyperbolic. Even given how many American adults "use" social media, making life unsustainable is over the top.
I mean, you can quit eating, sleeping and living under a roof, too, but that's unlikely to lead anywhere good.
These things are not the same at all. If anything, it's more like "stop eating fast food."
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:38 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
These things are not the same at all. If anything, it's more like "stop eating fast food."
I'd say it's more along the lines of, if you must go to the grocery store (and very many of us must at least occasionally), that doesn't mean you have to go to the center aisles where all the cookies and crackers and candies and pre-packaged and/or frozen stuff is -- you can just stick to the fresh stuff which is generally found around the edges. But that said, they do arrange things thus in hopes that you will feel compelled to at least pass through unhealthy stuff.
posted by philip-random at 12:51 PM on November 30, 2017
I'd say it's more along the lines of, if you must go to the grocery store (and very many of us must at least occasionally), that doesn't mean you have to go to the center aisles where all the cookies and crackers and candies and pre-packaged and/or frozen stuff is -- you can just stick to the fresh stuff which is generally found around the edges. But that said, they do arrange things thus in hopes that you will feel compelled to at least pass through unhealthy stuff.
posted by philip-random at 12:51 PM on November 30, 2017
Please, everyone stop giving your money/attention/data/life to these ad-based surveillance networks.
posted by koavf at 12:57 PM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by koavf at 12:57 PM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
I have a lot of friends on Facebook who are my realio, truilio in person friends, and we use Facebook to set up meetings and visits and the like. Sure we could do it by text or email or phone call, and sometimes we do! If I only used FB to communicate with them, I could drop it in a second.
But
I also have a lot of friends on Facebook who are people I have met and enjoyed talking to from a variety of games, conventions, community events, etc. These people live scattered lives from Vancouver Island to Germany. I cannot POSSIBLY meet with them all in person, or keep up with their lives via text or email or phone calls. But I like them, and they like me, and we keep in touch using Facebook. I can encourage them on a bad day, or be cheered by something they post, or share in unhappiness, or celebrate some joy in their life. This is not a bad thing.
Then, there are the groups. I need these groups. That's how I know what's going on with my Community Garden. My role-playing groups and board game nights and monthly craft socials. My town's community events and dinners. I'm running a game with someone not on Facebook, so we use Google Groups, and its a hell of a lot harder to post content like maps and images and timelines of the world and have them archived and accessible. We can make it work, but not nearly as well as Facebook's Groups work.
Its how I promote the cats & kittens I foster, so they get seen, and thus get adopted.
My Facebook feed is a busy place, but its full of things I want to engage in, and without it I would be a much lonelier, much more unengaged person. Far from isolating me, Facebook is what allows me to stay connected and be involved.
If it doesn't work for you, fine. Don't use it. But it works for me. And yes, I know that I'm a product, and all that, but at the end of the day in order to stay engaged I need to use some platform or another. There's no getting away from it. So I will continue to use the service that suits me and my needs best.
posted by sandraregina at 12:59 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
But
I also have a lot of friends on Facebook who are people I have met and enjoyed talking to from a variety of games, conventions, community events, etc. These people live scattered lives from Vancouver Island to Germany. I cannot POSSIBLY meet with them all in person, or keep up with their lives via text or email or phone calls. But I like them, and they like me, and we keep in touch using Facebook. I can encourage them on a bad day, or be cheered by something they post, or share in unhappiness, or celebrate some joy in their life. This is not a bad thing.
Then, there are the groups. I need these groups. That's how I know what's going on with my Community Garden. My role-playing groups and board game nights and monthly craft socials. My town's community events and dinners. I'm running a game with someone not on Facebook, so we use Google Groups, and its a hell of a lot harder to post content like maps and images and timelines of the world and have them archived and accessible. We can make it work, but not nearly as well as Facebook's Groups work.
Its how I promote the cats & kittens I foster, so they get seen, and thus get adopted.
My Facebook feed is a busy place, but its full of things I want to engage in, and without it I would be a much lonelier, much more unengaged person. Far from isolating me, Facebook is what allows me to stay connected and be involved.
If it doesn't work for you, fine. Don't use it. But it works for me. And yes, I know that I'm a product, and all that, but at the end of the day in order to stay engaged I need to use some platform or another. There's no getting away from it. So I will continue to use the service that suits me and my needs best.
posted by sandraregina at 12:59 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
> This is the value they provide to their advertisers and investors: we control what the world sees.
Half of what I do on Facebook is Girl Scouts stuff: organizing my troop, sharing ideas with other leaders, buying retired badges, eating popcorn while reading the fighty discussions about SafetyWise regulations. This is a useful service for me. I'm not feeling particularly controlled. What am I missing?
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:52 PM on November 30, 2017
Half of what I do on Facebook is Girl Scouts stuff: organizing my troop, sharing ideas with other leaders, buying retired badges, eating popcorn while reading the fighty discussions about SafetyWise regulations. This is a useful service for me. I'm not feeling particularly controlled. What am I missing?
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:52 PM on November 30, 2017
God, I was going to delete my Facebook account last month. I made a post saying "hey, I'm deleting this, let me know if you want to stay in touch," and a bunch of people wrote back asking me not to leave. I wasn't expecting that at all. So now I've just left my account up, and I never look at it ever.
Even though I'm never on the site, I still can't bring myself to make the final decision to delete my account, because it really does feel like cutting ties with tons of people. Which is kind of weird, because what does it really mean to see someone's name in a friend's list? I'm glad that, say, the guy I hung out with in Berlin 10 years ago is still alive, and I liked seeing his life updates, but at this point, I'm not even doing that. But I still hold on to an account I never look at, because deleting it altogether feels so final.
It starts to feel like a weird refusal to accept closure, to accept that these are people from my past who will, in all likelihood, remain in my past. It feels like I'm holding on to the idea of the connection more than the actual connection itself. I'm sure I'm being really trite here, but honestly, it's been making me question what I actually get out of my relationships, and even what constitutes a relationship for me. I can't say I get nothing out of it, but what am I actually getting?
I think there's another angle to it, also, which is that at least for me, it kind of subs in for making more of a real effort at connecting. I was sick today and didn't make it to my last lecture of the semester, and I felt bad because I didn't see the guy I usually sit next to, who is becoming a friend. And I had a moment where I thought "oh, I'll send him a friend request!" But in this context, it almost feels like a substitution for texting him and inviting him to hang out, or something that would involve seeing each other. Being Facebook friends is a low-stakes connection that doesn't require me to put myself out there nearly as much as actually seeing someone.
I haven't made any friends from school that I don't see at school, and I sort of see why now. I love seeing them on campus, but it kind of ends at the point where it would require an investment of time, or a risk of getting too vulnerable with someone. You don't have to do any of that on Facebook, and so it's what I end up doing. I guess it's what they're doing too.
I didn't mean to go on so long about this. It's just weird, because it's been 10 years since I joined that site, and I think I've sort of shaped my relationships around it more than I thought I had. Which makes me want to delete my account even more, but I still can't bring myself to do it. It's not upsetting, exactly, but it's weird.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 2:57 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Even though I'm never on the site, I still can't bring myself to make the final decision to delete my account, because it really does feel like cutting ties with tons of people. Which is kind of weird, because what does it really mean to see someone's name in a friend's list? I'm glad that, say, the guy I hung out with in Berlin 10 years ago is still alive, and I liked seeing his life updates, but at this point, I'm not even doing that. But I still hold on to an account I never look at, because deleting it altogether feels so final.
It starts to feel like a weird refusal to accept closure, to accept that these are people from my past who will, in all likelihood, remain in my past. It feels like I'm holding on to the idea of the connection more than the actual connection itself. I'm sure I'm being really trite here, but honestly, it's been making me question what I actually get out of my relationships, and even what constitutes a relationship for me. I can't say I get nothing out of it, but what am I actually getting?
I think there's another angle to it, also, which is that at least for me, it kind of subs in for making more of a real effort at connecting. I was sick today and didn't make it to my last lecture of the semester, and I felt bad because I didn't see the guy I usually sit next to, who is becoming a friend. And I had a moment where I thought "oh, I'll send him a friend request!" But in this context, it almost feels like a substitution for texting him and inviting him to hang out, or something that would involve seeing each other. Being Facebook friends is a low-stakes connection that doesn't require me to put myself out there nearly as much as actually seeing someone.
I haven't made any friends from school that I don't see at school, and I sort of see why now. I love seeing them on campus, but it kind of ends at the point where it would require an investment of time, or a risk of getting too vulnerable with someone. You don't have to do any of that on Facebook, and so it's what I end up doing. I guess it's what they're doing too.
I didn't mean to go on so long about this. It's just weird, because it's been 10 years since I joined that site, and I think I've sort of shaped my relationships around it more than I thought I had. Which makes me want to delete my account even more, but I still can't bring myself to do it. It's not upsetting, exactly, but it's weird.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 2:57 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think it's no coincidence that facebook and social media generally function as a way of extracting unpaid or grossly underpaid cultural and creative labor from women, queer people and POC.
You do understand that function happens to other groups, right?
Money can act as a substitute for time - the groups you list typically lack money so are left with the 'giving' of time to then attempt to have an impact. (I tried to find the 'open source guru' who, I believe, wrote an entire book on such an idea 10+ years ago and could not find it in 7 minutes so I stopped looking. But I did find HumHub and SocioBoard and perhaps those may be solutions for a subset of you - abstract away twitter/facebook. And "manage" your public "brand" as that seems to be a source of concern. )
And a WHOLE bunch of the posts about concern about how you post/what you post have you considered a phrase I heard from Trump-leaning social media: Virtue Signaling. If you want mass media about that idea without Trump wrappings I'll suggest BoJack Horseman episode about Neal McBeal the Navy SEAL and (I can't believe I'm going to recommend Seth McFarlane) The Orville: A deadly world.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:57 PM on November 30, 2017
You do understand that function happens to other groups, right?
Money can act as a substitute for time - the groups you list typically lack money so are left with the 'giving' of time to then attempt to have an impact. (I tried to find the 'open source guru' who, I believe, wrote an entire book on such an idea 10+ years ago and could not find it in 7 minutes so I stopped looking. But I did find HumHub and SocioBoard and perhaps those may be solutions for a subset of you - abstract away twitter/facebook. And "manage" your public "brand" as that seems to be a source of concern. )
And a WHOLE bunch of the posts about concern about how you post/what you post have you considered a phrase I heard from Trump-leaning social media: Virtue Signaling. If you want mass media about that idea without Trump wrappings I'll suggest BoJack Horseman episode about Neal McBeal the Navy SEAL and (I can't believe I'm going to recommend Seth McFarlane) The Orville: A deadly world.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:57 PM on November 30, 2017
Also, this essay is fantaaaastic. It's the best thing I've read in a while. Thanks so much for sharing it.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 3:08 PM on November 30, 2017
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 3:08 PM on November 30, 2017
I use Facebook for 2 things: finding out about local events (like concerts, primarily, but also stuff at LACMA or whatever) and keeping vaguely aware of what my "extended friend" network is up to (ex-coworkers, college friends/acquantainces, etc).
I post occasionally, mostly just a few updates and some photos. I did post more political stuff after the election, but kind of wound down as I find that just makes me angry (not because of reaction - my feed is basically 100% on the anti-Trump train - but it doesn't have much upside and just ends up being venting, less useful than say the MeFi threads).
Almost no one I know uses Facebook as the main means of communication (I get maybe 1 or 2 FB messenger pings a year, so I don't have the app installed or anything). For my Japanese friends/family, everything is on LINE. For my American friends/family, it's a mix of email, SMS, and Hangouts. [The one person who insists on using Facebook is my German friend, so my messaging is incredibly fragmented along country lines]
I don't use Twitter at all, other than having grabbed my username like I try to do on every network.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:44 PM on November 30, 2017
I post occasionally, mostly just a few updates and some photos. I did post more political stuff after the election, but kind of wound down as I find that just makes me angry (not because of reaction - my feed is basically 100% on the anti-Trump train - but it doesn't have much upside and just ends up being venting, less useful than say the MeFi threads).
Almost no one I know uses Facebook as the main means of communication (I get maybe 1 or 2 FB messenger pings a year, so I don't have the app installed or anything). For my Japanese friends/family, everything is on LINE. For my American friends/family, it's a mix of email, SMS, and Hangouts. [The one person who insists on using Facebook is my German friend, so my messaging is incredibly fragmented along country lines]
I don't use Twitter at all, other than having grabbed my username like I try to do on every network.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:44 PM on November 30, 2017
I just think there's something hilarious about watching people rail against FB for destroying in-person social bonds and forcing people to worry about their online persona... on a website where we're all posting pseudonymously from our individual homes/offices/underground bunkers.
One of the good things about pseudonymity is you don't have to worry as much about how it interacts with your un-deletable real-name identity and IRL friendships.
posted by atoxyl at 7:17 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
One of the good things about pseudonymity is you don't have to worry as much about how it interacts with your un-deletable real-name identity and IRL friendships.
posted by atoxyl at 7:17 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
(3) It is one of the only consistent ways to access work by PoC, given that the majority of mainstream publications and media outlets consistently marginalize them
This very much. I would also add, non-cishet people as well. Or younger people. I mean let's face it, metafilter comes of as an older, white, cishet kind of place. If I want news and announcements from a non- white establishment, non-cishet perspective, Twitter is it.
Also, I have to say it's more than a little disingenuous to be all "Twitter is Teh Evil!" when so many threads like the political ones rely on it.
posted by happyroach at 7:43 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
This very much. I would also add, non-cishet people as well. Or younger people. I mean let's face it, metafilter comes of as an older, white, cishet kind of place. If I want news and announcements from a non- white establishment, non-cishet perspective, Twitter is it.
Also, I have to say it's more than a little disingenuous to be all "Twitter is Teh Evil!" when so many threads like the political ones rely on it.
posted by happyroach at 7:43 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
my friends who don't use MetaFilter are amazed or even flabbergasted that I'm willing to spend my time discussing current events and other issues with complete strangers I'll never meet face to face or have any kind of "real" relationship with. Are our relationships in this space "real"? Can we actually have a legitimate online community? If you'd say yes to those questions without hesitating but would deny that FB provides others those things... why?
In order: yes (though the term 'relationship' in a non-physical context needs to be more specifically defined); yes ('community' is fairly large concept of fellowship, and the conversations here demonstrate this quality, daily). The last question presents a false dilemma: the primary argument in this thread--that is critical of FB--has not denied that it provides community for many. It's critical of its effect on users.
Is it that hard for your friends to understand that words communicate thoughts, whether spoken or written? Are they so mesmerized by visual media that a person with no image or video attached is not only unreal, but unimaginably so?
posted by LooseFilter at 8:20 PM on November 30, 2017
In order: yes (though the term 'relationship' in a non-physical context needs to be more specifically defined); yes ('community' is fairly large concept of fellowship, and the conversations here demonstrate this quality, daily). The last question presents a false dilemma: the primary argument in this thread--that is critical of FB--has not denied that it provides community for many. It's critical of its effect on users.
Is it that hard for your friends to understand that words communicate thoughts, whether spoken or written? Are they so mesmerized by visual media that a person with no image or video attached is not only unreal, but unimaginably so?
posted by LooseFilter at 8:20 PM on November 30, 2017
No, I think they're put off by the idea that I paid $5 so that people could talk to me in the snide, condescending way you just did.
posted by palomar at 10:19 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by palomar at 10:19 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]
Honestly, what a rude thing to say. I thought it was Facebook that was supposed to be the cesspool.
posted by palomar at 10:21 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by palomar at 10:21 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
It feels like I'm holding on to the idea of the connection more than the actual connection itself.
This is why I ghosted on FB. I was maintaining friendships on life support that really needed to pass away. A college friend from 15 years ago who lives 2000 miles away? I wish them the best but why do I need to see pictures of their kids grow up whom I will never meet or visit, instead of taking the time to connect with other parents at our school? I don't think everyone should quit, but FB definitely encourages a quantity over quality mindset.
posted by benzenedream at 12:00 AM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is why I ghosted on FB. I was maintaining friendships on life support that really needed to pass away. A college friend from 15 years ago who lives 2000 miles away? I wish them the best but why do I need to see pictures of their kids grow up whom I will never meet or visit, instead of taking the time to connect with other parents at our school? I don't think everyone should quit, but FB definitely encourages a quantity over quality mindset.
posted by benzenedream at 12:00 AM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Earlier this year I unfollowed every FB friend and subscribed to a bunch of groups relevant to my artistic and professional interests, and it's just turned into this wonderful magazine that keeps giving me ideas for my work. And that's it.
posted by yoHighness at 12:39 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by yoHighness at 12:39 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I realize that this is bragging, but I am friends with Sofia Samatar in real life. Sokka shot first's statement that she is a treasure the world does not deserve is completely accurate. This is how it happened:
1) A metafilter post linked to an awesome article she wrote.
2) I wrote her an email telling her how much I admired it.
3) It turned out that we knew some people in common. Because of them, and our shared commitments and interests, I have the privilege of seeing and speaking with her on a semi-regular basis.
I am not on Facebook or twitter. I am very lucky that I know wonderful people and can leverage the strength of weak ties to connect, through them, to other wonderful people. I communicate with Sofia, as with most of my friends, via email.
posted by sy at 1:05 AM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
1) A metafilter post linked to an awesome article she wrote.
2) I wrote her an email telling her how much I admired it.
3) It turned out that we knew some people in common. Because of them, and our shared commitments and interests, I have the privilege of seeing and speaking with her on a semi-regular basis.
I am not on Facebook or twitter. I am very lucky that I know wonderful people and can leverage the strength of weak ties to connect, through them, to other wonderful people. I communicate with Sofia, as with most of my friends, via email.
posted by sy at 1:05 AM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
However smart you think you are, you can only react to the information that ends up in front of you. Facebook's entire business model revolves around controlling what information ends up in front of you.
This is true of literally every media organisation ever. Whether Facebook is more effective at it is another thing. But you're letting someone else set the agenda every time you open a newspaper, book, or website, and every time you turn on the TV or radio.
posted by Dysk at 2:58 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is true of literally every media organisation ever. Whether Facebook is more effective at it is another thing. But you're letting someone else set the agenda every time you open a newspaper, book, or website, and every time you turn on the TV or radio.
posted by Dysk at 2:58 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I realize that this is bragging, but I am friends with Sofia Samatar in real life. Sokka shot first's statement that she is a treasure the world does not deserve is completely accurate.
You know what we need? Not another "FB y/n" thread, a Sofia Samatar thread. Maybe I will make one - she has a new book coming out and there are lots of things about her that one could link.
~~~
Honestly, I wish we could engage more with her experience and the arguments that are embedded in this piece.
posted by Frowner at 6:37 AM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
You know what we need? Not another "FB y/n" thread, a Sofia Samatar thread. Maybe I will make one - she has a new book coming out and there are lots of things about her that one could link.
~~~
Honestly, I wish we could engage more with her experience and the arguments that are embedded in this piece.
posted by Frowner at 6:37 AM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
These are good arguments in her piece and I am grateful to be made aware of her.
I think a lot about this shit as an Extremely Online trans person who has wandered around in online fora and made / keeps friends through internet. there is this notion that somehow being on the internet together is a satisfactory replacement for human relationships enacted in the meat zone, and the older i get it's sorta true, but also ime way less true than people want it to be. the parts in the article talking about the intensity and ephemerality of a connection made and kept primarily thru online really signified. and for a number of people i know, that's a major part of their shit. and it seems like it's really bad for their (and my) mental health and life function. and it seems like the people for whom this is most true are people who arent as able to do the irl socialization thing for a variety of legitimate reasons.
it is a sticky feeling.
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 12:28 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think a lot about this shit as an Extremely Online trans person who has wandered around in online fora and made / keeps friends through internet. there is this notion that somehow being on the internet together is a satisfactory replacement for human relationships enacted in the meat zone, and the older i get it's sorta true, but also ime way less true than people want it to be. the parts in the article talking about the intensity and ephemerality of a connection made and kept primarily thru online really signified. and for a number of people i know, that's a major part of their shit. and it seems like it's really bad for their (and my) mental health and life function. and it seems like the people for whom this is most true are people who arent as able to do the irl socialization thing for a variety of legitimate reasons.
it is a sticky feeling.
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 12:28 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, does this mean that we (as in, Westerners) might be a little less critical of the Chinese Internet?
I feel like its harder to be critical of the size, dominance, and questionable government ties of WeChat when most people are okay with Facebook, Google, and Amazon.
posted by FJT at 10:24 AM on December 4, 2017
I feel like its harder to be critical of the size, dominance, and questionable government ties of WeChat when most people are okay with Facebook, Google, and Amazon.
posted by FJT at 10:24 AM on December 4, 2017
A story on twitter about Facebook: "For those of you who work in social media, I need to share the story of my friend who died, and I didn't know because algorithms"
posted by exogenous at 11:32 AM on December 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by exogenous at 11:32 AM on December 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
« Older We’re not that close, please don’t make me read... | 10 years later, what became of the girl in the... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
I still use both Twitter and FB. Both are objectively horrible.
FB is especially insidious, because while it's significantly more awful to use (at least for me), it's MUCH less easy to escape. People who used to use Yahoo Groups or listservs or whatever to coordinate things now use Facebook, and if you want to be included in those things, you have to be there.
For me, that includes Sea Monkey pals, local political action, and most significantly the local cycling scene. If I'm not there, then I don't see planned rides -- FB is universal enough that there's literally no plan B for communicating.
Twitter can be more easily curated, but in the Trump era it's still incredibly stressful. And obviously Twitter's management is a Nazi-friendly garbage fire. And yet: I'm still there.
posted by uberchet at 7:56 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]