A Thanksgiving story about the limits of human empathy
November 20, 2018 11:37 AM Subscribe
Tossing a Bird That Does Not Fly Out of a Plane, Anne Lowrey, The Atlantic - The Yellville, Arkansas Turkey Trot used to involve a live turkey dropped from a plane.
" To paraphrase Joseph Stalin, one turkey thrown out of a plane is a tragicomedy; 46 million turkeys killed in a slaughterhouse is Thanksgiving dinner. " [Note: article graphically describes factory farming practices and other animal abuse]
BarryWhiteFindingOutAboutWhackingDay.gif
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:46 AM on November 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:46 AM on November 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
The factory farming angle is dumb. Ending stuff like this shouldn't be about making optimized reductions to the overall rate of turkey suffering in the world, but whether it's healthy for a community to maintain traditions that teach their children that terrorizing and killing animals in a spectacular way is an acceptable form of entertainment.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:51 AM on November 20, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:51 AM on November 20, 2018 [15 favorites]
Wait, the WKRP thing was REAL?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:52 AM on November 20, 2018
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:52 AM on November 20, 2018
Ending stuff like this shouldn't be about making optimized reductions to the overall rate of turkey suffering in the world, but whether it's healthy for a community to maintain traditions that teach their children that terrorizing and killing animals in a spectacular way is an acceptable form of entertainment.
Can't... can't we have both?
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:57 AM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Can't... can't we have both?
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:57 AM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Sure, I just think "but factory farms!" is a bad counterargument to the case against killing animals for shits and giggles.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:00 PM on November 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:00 PM on November 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
Really great piece of reporting, as depressing as the subject matter may be.
Also, I hadn’t known that the National Enquirer’s archives had to be destroyed after an AMI employee was killed in the 2001 anthrax attacks. There’s a link in the first story to an NYT article about the destruction of the archives and the decontamination of the building.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 12:11 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also, I hadn’t known that the National Enquirer’s archives had to be destroyed after an AMI employee was killed in the 2001 anthrax attacks. There’s a link in the first story to an NYT article about the destruction of the archives and the decontamination of the building.
The first task will be destroying everything, from the treasured archives to the lunch tray that Michael B. Kahane, A.M.I.'s chief counsel, left on his desk when the building was suddenly evacuated. According to the preliminary plan, that means soaking the photos and clippings in the bleach and vinegar, shredding them, wrapping them in plastic and duct tape, and disposing of them at a location not yet chosen.I guess they got all the Trump blackmail material out, though?
[... ]
Mr. Kahane, for one, is not sentimental. He said he would be surprised if anyone now wanted the personal possessions like artwork, family photos, fountain pen collections, source lists and such that he and 350 co-workers had left in the building.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 12:11 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
The articles linked keep going back and forth about whether all turkeys can fly, or just wild turkeys, and whether the ones thrown out of the plane were wild or not. It says they landed with a splat, and says some landed completely unharmed (which would involve at least gliding) but were then chased around town. I am confused.
posted by w0mbat at 12:23 PM on November 20, 2018
posted by w0mbat at 12:23 PM on November 20, 2018
Obligatory video report on the 2016 Yellville Turkey Drop (SLYT).
posted by Schadenfreude at 12:25 PM on November 20, 2018
posted by Schadenfreude at 12:25 PM on November 20, 2018
It sounds like only wild turkeys can fly because they haven't been fattened up for eating.
On a related note, a few weeks ago we were hearing very strange noises on the roof during my knitting group and someone went out to check, and it turned out to be wild turkeys who managed to fly onto the roof.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:47 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
On a related note, a few weeks ago we were hearing very strange noises on the roof during my knitting group and someone went out to check, and it turned out to be wild turkeys who managed to fly onto the roof.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:47 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
My neighborhood has a lot of wild turkeys. Even the wild, lean, mean* ones do not fly well. One time a bunch landed in my (fenced) back yard. They couldn't get out again because they require such a long runway for take-off that they didn't have room in my fairly sizable yard before running into the fence. I had to go out and open the gate for them.
*they're real mean, but I'd be mean too if people were throwing my brethren out of planes for funsies. Jesus, humanity, can we, at the absolute barest minimum, not delight in the suffering of animals?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:40 PM on November 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
*they're real mean, but I'd be mean too if people were throwing my brethren out of planes for funsies. Jesus, humanity, can we, at the absolute barest minimum, not delight in the suffering of animals?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:40 PM on November 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
Sure, I just think "but factory farms!" is a bad counterargument to the case against killing animals for shits and giggles.
Why? In this day and age and knowing the environmental impact of factory farming - isn't the very act of eating meat itself generally for shits and giggles and tradition?
What's the functional moral or ethical difference between throwing a flightless bird out of a helicopter and raising millions of them in horribly inhumane conditions for the purposes of eating them on any given day? What's the difference between enjoying that suffering because they're delicious or because they can't fly?
This is like arguing that it makes a difference if your torturer and executioner is wearing a clown suit, and that it's somehow better that they ate you after.
posted by loquacious at 1:43 PM on November 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
Why? In this day and age and knowing the environmental impact of factory farming - isn't the very act of eating meat itself generally for shits and giggles and tradition?
What's the functional moral or ethical difference between throwing a flightless bird out of a helicopter and raising millions of them in horribly inhumane conditions for the purposes of eating them on any given day? What's the difference between enjoying that suffering because they're delicious or because they can't fly?
This is like arguing that it makes a difference if your torturer and executioner is wearing a clown suit, and that it's somehow better that they ate you after.
posted by loquacious at 1:43 PM on November 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
I think a better parallel would be our dumping thousands and thousands of tons of garbage into the ocean versus those idiots who drag sea creatures out to take selfies. Both are terrible, one terrible on a Stalinesque scale almost difficult to comprehend, but the statistically insignificant terribleness displays a personal malice that is much more immediately affecting.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:25 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:25 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
We euthanize thousands of unwanted cats and dogs per year, so how dare we condemn people who torture cats for fun!
posted by muddgirl at 2:37 PM on November 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 2:37 PM on November 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
We euthanize thousands of unwanted cats and dogs per year, so how dare we condemn people who torture cats for fun!
This analogy doesn't really map to my suggestion and statement because I'm definitely not saying don't examine the torture of animals for entertainment or "fun", which is the usual straw man counter argument that I can't hold both ideas in my mind as horrible things, or that pointing out that factory farming might logically be provably worse is a non-starter because instead of one person torturing an animal, it's an entire culture.
And if given the choice I bet farmed animals would love to have a more humane euthanasia involving sedatives or other drugs instead of getting shuffled through a slaughterhouse and being awake for the whole thing before getting beheaded or dropped with a captured bolt gun.
If you take anything away from my statement, it should be "how dare we not call factory farming torture the same way throwing one out of a helicopter is torture?" and that it's really not any better or that functionally ethically different than individual malice.
That it is is one of those collective lies we believe and tell ourselves to feel better about what we eat and how it actually gets to our tables - and that the choice to eat meat today is primarily one of pleasure, not survival or sustenance.
People don't eat meat because it's healthier, they eat meat because they like how it tastes and how it triggers pleasure/reward systems in our psychological makeup.
Yeah, I realize I'm doing that annoying thing that vegans do - but vegans definitely have a point, here. And the outrage with which people react when this is pointed out to them is incredibly defensive and heavy denial that one's dinner choices every day aren't part of the problem.
There's nothing sustainable or humane or ok about how we raise meat for food these days, and we'd all be a lot better off if we took a long hard look at it as a practice - and ourselves and our individual roles and responsibility in it.
The more I think about it logically and the more I actively practice empathy, the more I think that eating animals is ethically wrong for everyone and everything involved from the animal itself to the human consuming it and the environment itself, not to mention our culture.
If we treated humans the way we treat farm animals we'd call factory farms concentration camps, an ongoing genocide or even a Holocaust. I don't understand how it's so difficult to see this, or why it's so controversial to point out the logical inconsistency and outright denial involved.
I'm asking you to think about it. It's really uncomfortable. I know it is because I've been doing some really uncomfortable thinking about it and forcing myself to look at my denial and excuses about why I participate in it.
I believe that most of MetaFilter's members strive to live in a more peaceful and compassionate world.
I would like to ask people to strongly consider starting with what they choose to put on their plates for dinner. Peace begins at home.
posted by loquacious at 5:53 PM on November 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
This analogy doesn't really map to my suggestion and statement because I'm definitely not saying don't examine the torture of animals for entertainment or "fun", which is the usual straw man counter argument that I can't hold both ideas in my mind as horrible things, or that pointing out that factory farming might logically be provably worse is a non-starter because instead of one person torturing an animal, it's an entire culture.
And if given the choice I bet farmed animals would love to have a more humane euthanasia involving sedatives or other drugs instead of getting shuffled through a slaughterhouse and being awake for the whole thing before getting beheaded or dropped with a captured bolt gun.
If you take anything away from my statement, it should be "how dare we not call factory farming torture the same way throwing one out of a helicopter is torture?" and that it's really not any better or that functionally ethically different than individual malice.
That it is is one of those collective lies we believe and tell ourselves to feel better about what we eat and how it actually gets to our tables - and that the choice to eat meat today is primarily one of pleasure, not survival or sustenance.
People don't eat meat because it's healthier, they eat meat because they like how it tastes and how it triggers pleasure/reward systems in our psychological makeup.
Yeah, I realize I'm doing that annoying thing that vegans do - but vegans definitely have a point, here. And the outrage with which people react when this is pointed out to them is incredibly defensive and heavy denial that one's dinner choices every day aren't part of the problem.
There's nothing sustainable or humane or ok about how we raise meat for food these days, and we'd all be a lot better off if we took a long hard look at it as a practice - and ourselves and our individual roles and responsibility in it.
The more I think about it logically and the more I actively practice empathy, the more I think that eating animals is ethically wrong for everyone and everything involved from the animal itself to the human consuming it and the environment itself, not to mention our culture.
If we treated humans the way we treat farm animals we'd call factory farms concentration camps, an ongoing genocide or even a Holocaust. I don't understand how it's so difficult to see this, or why it's so controversial to point out the logical inconsistency and outright denial involved.
I'm asking you to think about it. It's really uncomfortable. I know it is because I've been doing some really uncomfortable thinking about it and forcing myself to look at my denial and excuses about why I participate in it.
I believe that most of MetaFilter's members strive to live in a more peaceful and compassionate world.
I would like to ask people to strongly consider starting with what they choose to put on their plates for dinner. Peace begins at home.
posted by loquacious at 5:53 PM on November 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
loquacious - my comment was not addressed to you, but to the false equivalency in the original post. My apologies for giving that impression, even unintentionally.
posted by muddgirl at 6:54 PM on November 20, 2018
posted by muddgirl at 6:54 PM on November 20, 2018
To be clear, although I am a meat eater I absolutely agree with animal welfare advocates who are fighting for humane conditions for factory-farmed animals, including humane deaths. The difference is that tossing live turkeys out of an airplane can *NEVER* be done humanely.
posted by muddgirl at 6:55 PM on November 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 6:55 PM on November 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
If we treated humans the way we treat farm animals we'd call factory farms concentration camps, an ongoing genocide or even a Holocaust. I don't understand how it's so difficult to see this, or why it's so controversial to point out the logical inconsistency and outright denial involved.
I'm going to not say a lot of things right now, and just encourage you to take a step back and think about how people might feel about this comparison, and consider what would drive a rational-but-disagreeing person to get angry and what you call "defensive".
posted by traveler_ at 9:14 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm going to not say a lot of things right now, and just encourage you to take a step back and think about how people might feel about this comparison, and consider what would drive a rational-but-disagreeing person to get angry and what you call "defensive".
posted by traveler_ at 9:14 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm going to not say a lot of things right now, and just encourage you to take a step back and think about how people might feel about this comparison, and consider what would drive a rational-but-disagreeing person to get angry and what you call "defensive".
Yeah, there's a lot of weight and meaning to my word choices. In no way do I intend to lessen the horrors that humanity has wrought upon itself.
But I'm trying to make a difficult point about the idea that if we did treat other humans the way we treat animals in factory farms we'd call it a crime against humanity. Or torture. Or a war crime, where applicable. It's utterly appalling when you try to think about it in those terms.
Yet most of us are ok with it. Why?
posted by loquacious at 9:37 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, there's a lot of weight and meaning to my word choices. In no way do I intend to lessen the horrors that humanity has wrought upon itself.
But I'm trying to make a difficult point about the idea that if we did treat other humans the way we treat animals in factory farms we'd call it a crime against humanity. Or torture. Or a war crime, where applicable. It's utterly appalling when you try to think about it in those terms.
Yet most of us are ok with it. Why?
posted by loquacious at 9:37 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I mean, I'd hazard to say that I personally am okay with it because I don't value animal life to the same extent as human life, and even different animals are valued to greater or lesser extents. You can think that's wrong, and I can understand why you might feel that way, but it doesn't change my mind. I would swat a fly to kill it if it's in my house; I would not kill a bird that happened to get into my house; I will, however, eat chicken and turkey.
posted by axiom at 9:46 PM on November 20, 2018
posted by axiom at 9:46 PM on November 20, 2018
Animals are both who and what to humans, who are cruel and humane and contradictory above all. The same people who love and pamper their dogs eat chickens bred to suffer and die. Half of Americans say that slaughterhouses should be banned, but nearly all eat meat. Many would never purchase foie gras and would happily protest a town that throws turkeys out of a plane, but think nothing about what needs to happen for them to consume a cheap bologna sandwich. The Turkey Trot is a carnival of disgusting and tasteless excess, but Thanksgiving is just Thanksgiving.Damn, this was excellent. Thanks for posting it.
posted by zarq at 2:58 AM on November 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
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posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:42 AM on November 20, 2018 [13 favorites]