When the cops were more disreputable than motorcycle gangs.

February 24, 2022 4:47 AM

The Waco Biker Shootout Left Nine Dead. Why Was No One Convicted? NY Times Magazine

Previously.

posted by Bee'sWing (33 comments total)

(archive.org link)
posted by box at 6:44 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]

One early member told Skip Hollandsworth of Texas Monthly that many of them read Hunter S. Thompson’s just-published “Hell’s Angels” as a sort of how-to manual.

Of course.
posted by jamjam at 7:24 AM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]

Impressive how the "stand your ground laws" allow crime to reach a critical entropy level at which it delocalizes and can no longer be attributed to anyone in particular. Although I'm sure with different biker demographics this would have been smooth sailing for the mass prosecution.
posted by serif at 7:58 AM on February 24, 2022 [9 favorites]

I remember from reporting at the time was one of the issues was that the police may have fired first, without announcing themselves. When you had no idea who did what, it makes prosecutions hard.
posted by Spike Glee at 8:36 AM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]

"“You don’t see the Kiwanis and the Lions Club running up on each other at Twin Peaks and getting into a gun battle, because guess what? "

This was such a spectacular clusterfuck. I particularly enjoyed the part where they backed Reyna into a corner over his cocaine use, and his response was to repeatedly dismiss any new cases where he would be required to answer questions about it.
posted by liminal_shadows at 9:29 AM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]

My takeaway here is that these biker dudes are really "fortunate" to have "found" lawyers who worked for cartels and also to have been part of a subculture that can withstand the pressure of pre-trial incarceration.
posted by srboisvert at 11:54 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]

“You don’t see the Kiwanis and the Lions Club running up on each other at Twin Peaks and getting into a gun battle, because guess what? "

Because they are officially sanctioned criminal organizations with powerful and wealthy members.

When I was a teenager I accidentally took a wrong turn at a community ice rink and walked into a Kiwanis event being held in a side hall. There was gambling and stripping with a couple of passed out naked men lying on the stage being danced over. The entire event was 100% criminal by the local laws at that time. I recognized at two city councillors there plus a couple of my old scout troop's leaders and some friends' dads. It was also massively disappointing because I had always wanted to experience a cool illegal speakeasy type thing and this was just really sad and sordid with none of the glamor hollywood's mandatory strip club scenes present. It just doesn't look the same in the suburbs under full fluorescent lighting with folding tables and the ozone smell of a hockey rink.
posted by srboisvert at 12:06 PM on February 24, 2022 [23 favorites]

"I'm sure with different biker demographics this would have been smooth sailing for the mass prosecution."

I am pretty sure if these guys would have been Black they would mostly be in prison by now. Whether guilty or not. I remember reading about this back when it happened and thinking "nothing is gonna come of this".

Texas is getting to be a mess beyond redemption these days. Between things like this and the trans kids thing Abbot did the other day it's tempting to advocate for a border wall to keep Texas separate from us. I know there are very good folks who live there and would like to see things get better but they don't run the place. I feel so sorry for anyone who has to live among things like that.
posted by cybrcamper at 12:31 PM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]

I'm ashamed at how much effort it takes me to remember that these are people who deserve justice. Just the choice of gang names make me want to roll my eyes. But, I realize that true of many people when reading news about those I instinctively sympathize with. I appreciate the lesson.
posted by eotvos at 12:35 PM on February 24, 2022

There have been successful conspiracy prosecutions against white defendants, if they had just charged the leaders/organizers of the rival gangs. Basically "you came to this peaceful meeting looking for a fight, knowing that people would die." By charging everyone implying that all motorcyclists were inherently responsible that means no one was responsible.

Anyway when people say ACAB and defund the police this is exactly why. Apparently police were completely powerless to prevent this foreseeable tragedy. They were powerless to hold the perpetrators responsible. The DA perverted justice in an attempt to further his own career and there was no one in the city willing to stop him. I don't know what a better system looks like but there must be something better than this.
posted by muddgirl at 1:09 PM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]

METAFILTER: It just doesn't look the same in the suburbs under full fluorescent lighting with folding tables and the ozone smell of a hockey rink.
posted by philip-random at 1:56 PM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]

just so I'm clear: Kiwanis and Lions Clubs are officially sanctioned criminal organizations? I'm not sure if I read that right and sorry for the derail
posted by elkevelvet at 2:10 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I heard there was a shortage of jalapeño pepper flavor down at the Texas cattle fertilizer store, so it's a good thing we can get spicy hot bullshit takes like that on Metafilter for free! :)
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 2:31 PM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]

The idea that there would be this giant fight and all kinds of killing over who gets to put what kind of patches on their jackets is just unbelievably insanely stupid, but everyone does deserve a fair shake and it also seems like there were at least some normal people who were there for the beer or whatever, but not part of the violence.
posted by snofoam at 2:33 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]

so a derail it is..

I've been a member of the local (Canadian) Lions Club in my rural community for about a dozen years, when do I get to enjoy the criminal benefits?

Incidentally, the friend who recruited me described an invitation to a Kinsmen recruitment event many years ago, he brought two buddies, and there were strippers from the city and it was bizarre. The one buddy was quite a bit shorter, the stripper singled him out and told him to lie on the floor and she took a running approach and did a flip and landed crotch-to-face, and the three of them left promptly. I realize this sounds like a meathead 80s film but I've had the story verified by one other source, and my friend is a good guy and I believe him. I would never be in the local Lions Club if it wasn't for him. We have had zero events with strippers, btw. The spiciest recruitment attempt was a Wings Night at the local pub.
posted by elkevelvet at 3:03 PM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]

I was getting invited to Rotary events for a while--most of them took place at the kind of pizza place where people brag on the quality of the salad dressing.
posted by box at 3:13 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]

but what goes on in the basement?
posted by philip-random at 3:52 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]

Not sure they have one. Definitely not ping-pong, probably not some old Italian-American person perfecting the sauce recipe.
posted by box at 4:20 PM on February 24, 2022

Pretty gross how some of you lot are willing to deny someone's lived experience because of your in-group loyalties, especially when the in-groups involved are themselves pretty goddam sketchy.

Are you calling other mefites liars now? Do you deny the reports of illegal behavior? Or are you just blindly defending an organization with the same name as one to which you belong, without knowing the details of how they operate?
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 4:28 PM on February 24, 2022

Well I know they are basically drinking clubs for old men, but I hadn't heard about the strippers.
posted by ryanrs at 4:33 PM on February 24, 2022

I am not sure what is serious here. Most of the Lions clubs I’ve interacted with do fundraising for vision programs, the elderly, literacy, etc. I can’t say that there aren’t also gambling stripper crime Lions clubs out there, but if they exist at all, I’m sure they’re a tiny minority.
posted by snofoam at 4:34 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]

I don’t think there are Kiwanis clubs where I am, so maybe those are more focused on murder and crime, I guess.
posted by snofoam at 4:36 PM on February 24, 2022

Jeez-ow. I don’t doubt anyone’s lived experiences, and I don’t have any loyalty to the Rotarians—they don’t even invite me for mediocre pizza any more. They might all be crooks, or maybe another chapter is all crooks, but I just saw a bunch of people interested in vague do-gooding and networking. Lots and lots of networking.
posted by box at 4:49 PM on February 24, 2022

I believe people are looking askance at srboisvert generalizing their singular experience with one Kiwanis event to all of Lions and Kiwanis being "officially sanctioned criminal organizations with powerful and wealthy members", rather than 'denying someone's lived experience'. Which strikes me as a perfectly reasonable reaction.
posted by tavella at 4:57 PM on February 24, 2022 [9 favorites]

I'm open to finding out I have a massive blind spot re: service clubs, that is exactly why I asked the question. In smaller towns, and in my experience, they are clubs with rapidly declining enrolment and they raise funds and contribute to the community. The club I'm with has established a playground by our riverfront, we maintain a park the other side of the river, and run a campground. I can speak to the amount of criminal activity with my club: zero.
posted by elkevelvet at 5:54 PM on February 24, 2022

elkevelvet, nothing personal but I always assumed you'd be an Elks Club member.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 6:22 PM on February 24, 2022 [5 favorites]

it took me way too long to get it
:D
posted by elkevelvet at 6:48 PM on February 24, 2022 [5 favorites]

I was getting invited to Rotary events for a while--most of them took place at the kind of pizza place where people brag on the quality of the salad dressing.

Pizza Ranch, yes?

My experience with various charitable organizations is they’re mostly an excuse for small business networking with a strong side of “Aren’t we great people for helping our community?” self-congratulatory back-patting.

I had a former co-worker talk about the drunken stripper soirées that accompanied his Knights of Columbus charity bowling tournaments around the Midwest so, frankly, nothing about Lions/Rotarians getting grody in an ice hockey arena strikes me as a) untruthful or b)surprising.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:06 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]

A Waco police detective has been chosen as the foreman of the 12 people most likely to decide if the bikers in the Waco Twin Peaks shootout get indicted.


That struck me as really really odd. Then I think I remember reading that it is actually common for cops to be the foreman of juries. Which I still find uncomfortable.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 8:56 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]

Describing these civic/service organizations as "officially sanctioned criminal organizations" is a bit much, especially on the basis of a chapter or two violating small town vice ordinances. When our small-town Wisconsin Cub Scout pack helped out at the Knights of Columbus spaghetti dinner, a number of us helped ourselves to the shitty jug red that they served (I was about ten), but that didn't make the K of C the Cheddar Mafia.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:59 PM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]

That struck me as really really odd. Then I think I remember reading that it is actually common for cops to be the foreman of juries. Which I still find uncomfortable.

There's a big difference between a grand jury and a petit jury.

I wouldn't be especially comfortable with a police detective being the foreperson of either of them but would be significantly more troubled by it in the case of the petit jury.
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:22 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]

Pretty gross how some of you lot are willing to deny someone's lived experience because of your in-group loyalties, especially when the in-groups involved are themselves pretty goddam sketchy.

Lol. Apparently you can just make any old crackpot generalisation now and then when people raise their collective eyebrows someone is going to piss their pants about "lived experiences". As opposed presumably to other experiences which were not lived.

I saw someone buy cocaine in my local pub once, I guess that's now a key node in the global narco-trafficking cartel as indeed are all Wetherspoons.
posted by atrazine at 4:14 AM on February 26, 2022 [5 favorites]

MetaFilter: there for the beer or whatever, but not part of the violence.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:11 AM on March 1, 2022 [1 favorite]