It’s not an apotheosis of form, it is a comprehensive grafting
February 24, 2022 7:42 AM Subscribe
An Exquisite Corpse from the minds of Hidetaka Miyazaki (Dark Souls) and George RR Martin, Elden Ring is currently one of the best-reviewed games in modern history
[Announcement Trailer][Reveal Trailer][Launch Trailer] [*Discussion may contain spoilers*]
- Elden Ring Isn't the Souls Game I Asked For, But It's the King's Field Successor I Needed [Paste Magazine]
"Elden Ring is how From Software makes an open world high fantasy RPG under the direction of King Soulsman, Hidetaka Miyazaki. It brings to bear over two decades of institutional understanding that started with King’s Field in 1994 and borrowed ideas from even earlier. It’s not an apotheosis of form, it is a comprehensive grafting. ... An open world, after all, is only as good as the dark holes that perforate its beautiful surface, the land is only as interesting as its scars. And these dungeons, especially the big ones, are compelling like no other. ... Switchbacks that lead to dead ends that beget traps that culminate in pitfalls back to the beginning (or your doom, who can say?). Impossible ambushes that even on the 9th death still steal your breath. Forcing the player to choose between a shield, a second weapon, and the absolutely crucial torch—except, what if the torch gives you away? Can you navigate a maze in the dark? And verticality, oh, the verticality! This is a massive game that’s meant to be played as a community. Something that’s truly impossible to review properly in the handful of days we’ve had and the limited playerbase. ... I want to take my time with this game. But more than anything, I want to hear the stories that friends tell me ... "
- Elden Ring is a sprawling fantasy epic so good I don't want it to end [The Verge]
"When I was a kid, I would look at paperback fantasy novels and dream. I was too young to read these tales of sex and violence, but those hand-painted covers, full of dragons and swords and ancient ruins, held a promise of adventure that captivated me. It’s a feeling I continued to chase when I went on my own fantasy quests in games dating back to the original Legend of Zelda. Few have been able to match my paperback-inspired imagination; they’re often too restrictive or linear to create that sense of freedom I craved. None have gotten as close to that feeling as Elden Ring ... What makes this all work is the world that FromSoftware has created. It is both absolutely massive and full of things to do and see. It seems kinda large at first, with a map that spans a sprawling continent, but it slowly reveals its full, more impressive scope the longer you play. More than just being huge, though, the Lands Between is full of interesting things to discover, from the plentiful mini-bosses prowling around to the sheer range of landscapes. One minute, you’re in a burning land with a blood-red sky — the next, you’re deep underground exploring a sunken city with inexplicable stars overhead. It can be incredibly beautiful, like when a rain of golden leaves falls down in the middle of a dark night."
- How I learned to stop worrying and love the deathly delights of 'Elden Ring' [NPR]
"Looking back, I don't know why I agreed to do this, why I submitted myself to video game masochism. I don't know why I thought my first experience with a FromSoftware game would be like every other video game review: 30 hours gone, game finished, review written, thank you and goodnight. ... And yet — 30 hours into Elden Ring, I've barely made a dent. I didn't realize until now that I could have so much fun making myself so miserable. Elden Ring is forbidding, majestic, and sick in every sense of the word. Its overarching story about a fallen kingdom is deliberately obtuse — an unspecified amount was written by Game of Thrones author George R. R. Martin, the rest by Dark Souls mastermind Hidetaka Miyazaki. Its setting, the Lands Between, is filled with countless little delights, like the roaming sheep that roll away armadillo style when you get too close. But they're also home to countless nightmares, like giant dragonflies that harass you while you're menaced by roving bands of desiccated peasants, towering knights, or flame-breathing dragons. These vast landscapes largely replace the dense, layered levels that Dark Souls was famous for. In Elden Ring, though, the opportunity to survey diverse terrain — whether a noxious swampland or gusty prairie — produces an injection of gaming dopamine (and some genuine fear, too). ... What surprised me most about Elden Ring, though, is how much I genuinely laughed out loud while playing. It's astonishingly hard, but rather than mutter and groan, I was reassured to know that other players will experience the exact same trials and tribulations. At a time where lots of people, including myself, are anxious, I wasn't sure I'd want to play something so punishing. It's easy to pick up my staple games for Nintendo Switch and shut off my brain. But after realizing how exciting it was to conquer my fears, explore the Lands Between, and die over and over, Elden Ring became a joy, especially as my roommate watched on and laughed at my inevitable destruction."
- FromSoft ventures into a sumptuous open world [Eurogamer (Adblock not allowed)]
"But then, little by little, your power grows. The lowly bandits and wolves and soldiers you cut down turn to runes, these runes are channelled into power that steadies your sword hand, bolsters your spellcasting intellect, and enhances your ability to withstand a troll club full to the face. Bandits and wolves and soldiers turn to demons and witches and fey, and your power grows again. You feel you might be strong enough to journey south, to a ragged peninsula where beasts have overrun a castle by the sea; to the West, where lush marshlands have swallowed whole a once-great centre for scholarly learning; to the East, where desert sands are stained red with blood and rot, or to the North, where a great golden capital lies, or perhaps you’ll set off to a multitude of other faraway destinations between. As your power grows, so too does the challenge, and the wonder of the journey before you. Before long, you feel you just might be strong enough to challenge the demigods themselves."
- ‘Elden Ring’ review in progress: No one is prepared for how colossal this game is [Washington Post]
Probably the easiest, most enticing way to describe the sheer scale of “Elden Ring" is to say it’s like receiving two to three new Dark Souls games in one. ... I believe this is probably the easiest Souls game for new players. And while this game has more ways to play than ever before, making it potentially more accessible to a wider group of people, make no mistake: this game can still be quite difficult. ... If you’re waiting for a recommendation, here’s mine. If you’re a fan of the Souls games, you’ve likely already made your decision. For everyone else, this is still a hard game to skip. So far, this is the most compelling and thoughtfully designed open world game I’ve played, exceeding possibly “The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild," a game often cited as the greatest ever made. The more you understand The Lands Between, the clearer that argument will become. After 40 hours, I cannot even begin to conceive the borders of Elden Ring’s world. The more I explore, the map expands in impossible, unbelievable ways. No one is prepared for how colossal Elden Ring actually is"
- Elden Ring puts you right inside a brutal fantasy novel [Slate]
I’m not really sure what’s going on in Elden Ring. Thirty hours into the game, I’ve already explored ruins, spelunked caverns, raided catacombs, stormed castles, slayed a dragon, and looted countless corpses—but I still barely know why. The game purposely hides the scale of its map from you, slowly revealing it through fragments encountered while exploring. ... What I do know is that I keep playing anyway, and I don’t want to stop. ... The secrets hidden within the Souls games and their spin-offs’ storytelling are central to their allure. Instead of experiencing the story through traditional cutscenes, players wander through highly detailed worlds given only vague objectives, fighting enemies, leveling up, killing massive bosses on the good faith that it’s what you’re supposed to be doing, without establishing why you’re doing it. Only through careful study of the environment does the story become clearer: Those broken statues lining the gallery aren’t just broken because they look cool; dig deep and enough, and you’ll learn that it’s because that statue is of a god that has been exiled, and thus his statues have been torn down. That boss fight you fought wasn’t just there on a designer’s whim, but because their character’s backstory makes it necessary. In the 13 years since Demon’s Souls, From Software has taken the practice of world-building from a secondary design element to transform it into a high art form in itself. ... Elden Ring de-prioritizes the classical hero’s journey, instead centering the journey of the world itself. Not since 2017’s landmark The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild has a game captured the sense of an untamed world so well. While Breath of the Wild abstracted and gamified its environment, Elden Ring instead brings the environment’s every detail into sharp focus. Each region is tied together through environmental circumstances.On difficulty:
- Death Of The Wild [GameSpot]
"The challenge for From Software lies in the friction between the studio’s design hallmarks and the expected conventions of a genre filled with games that try to be all things to everyone. And although the execution is an unmitigated success, one thing’s for sure: Elden Ring is not a smooth-edged, one-size-fits-all kind of experience that will accommodate everyone. Instead, it’s unrelentingly opaque, relishes in the savagery of confronting players with unfavorable odds, and delights in watching the ensuing struggle. Elden Ring’s gameplay will feel familiar to those with experience of previous From Software games. The tried-and-true formula of measured third-person combat against enemies that are swift to punish foolhardiness is both as thrilling and nerve-racking as ever. Whether you wield a sword and shield, swing something that’s closer to a heap of raw iron, or stand back as a mage and launch spells to topple your foes, Elden Ring tests patience and skill with tricky enemy mobs and ferocious bosses."
- Even Dark Souls skeptics should still try Elden Ring: It isn’t Skyrim or Breath of the Wild, but it has the same DNA [Polygon]
"Is Elden Ring the next Skyrim or the next Breath of the Wild that you’ve been waiting for? Or is it going to frustrate the hell out of you and make you wish you hadn’t spent your money on it? I can tell you this much: Elden Ring bears a lot in common with those games, but it also has some undeniable FromSoftware elements that may turn you off. ... But Elden Ring includes many mechanics that no previous FromSoftware game has had. The first Dark Souls feels like an open world, but certain areas are gated for story reasons, sometimes behind difficult bosses. There’s limited fast travel and no horse that you can ride in Dark Souls. If you want to visit the blacksmith to get your weapons fixed (and they will break, just like in Breath of the Wild), you’ve got to walk all the way there. Elden Ring solves that problem immediately, giving the player fast travel and a horse to ride. ... For myself, I love playing a game that feels like Dark Souls but with fast travel and the option to collect herbs and use a crafting system. It has the same sense of black humor as Dark Souls. The world is full of total weirdos, both terrifying and endearing. ... Don’t get too put off by all the posturing about the supposed difficulty of this game, or other FromSoftware games, either. You’ll have a shield, after all, or something equally useful in your toolset, depending on your character build. You’ll have a button that lets you roll around the battlefield. Every enemy has to worry about your health bar, just as you have to worry about theirs. Keep yours up, and get theirs down. You got this"
I haven't bought Horizon FW because I'm mad at Sony for 1) not selling it as a dual platform release for the base price, and 2) not having PS5s available for me to buy. I'll buy and play this on my PS4 instead, and just have to hide my head in the sand from HFW spoilers. And when I get that PS5 someday, I won't have to pay to upgrade Elden Ring for it. And then I'll buy HFW at whatever "game of the year" discount they've got going.
Sony makes bad choices sometimes. You shouldn't try to kick me to upgrade to a PS5 if I can't fucking buy a PS5. Assholes.
Anyway, I know what I'm doing this weekend.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:09 AM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Sony makes bad choices sometimes. You shouldn't try to kick me to upgrade to a PS5 if I can't fucking buy a PS5. Assholes.
Anyway, I know what I'm doing this weekend.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:09 AM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm so interested because the reviews are so hype, but I haven't been able to get into any of the souls games.
I put about six hours into Bloodborne and just got really tired of running down the same alley trying to learn the attack pattern of the next five enemies.
But Skyrim is the game I've put about 400 hours into, so the comparisons make me itch.
posted by lumpenprole at 8:18 AM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I put about six hours into Bloodborne and just got really tired of running down the same alley trying to learn the attack pattern of the next five enemies.
But Skyrim is the game I've put about 400 hours into, so the comparisons make me itch.
posted by lumpenprole at 8:18 AM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Sean, if you buy Horizon on PS4 I understand it comes with a free upgrade to the PS5 version. I have it on the PS4 and it works great. (Horizon is seemingly cursed to always get released a few days before the GOTY).
I wonder if Elden Ring is going to be to Dark Souls games as Hades was to Roguelikes. The challenging miniboss game loop sounds completely unappealing to me but all the gushing reviews are certainly making me want to check it out. But I’m wary. I feel like the video game industry’s setup where reviewers get just a few days to binge a game and write a review serves everyone poorly. So we’re reading reviews written by people who’ve been up for the last 3 days playing this game, so we get these fairly breathless “my head is spinning” takes that don’t really tell you if you’re gonna enjoy the game or not.
posted by Emily's Fist at 8:24 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I wonder if Elden Ring is going to be to Dark Souls games as Hades was to Roguelikes. The challenging miniboss game loop sounds completely unappealing to me but all the gushing reviews are certainly making me want to check it out. But I’m wary. I feel like the video game industry’s setup where reviewers get just a few days to binge a game and write a review serves everyone poorly. So we’re reading reviews written by people who’ve been up for the last 3 days playing this game, so we get these fairly breathless “my head is spinning” takes that don’t really tell you if you’re gonna enjoy the game or not.
posted by Emily's Fist at 8:24 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
An acquaintance from other community haunts who's in "the industry" (sprinkle in salt of the No One Knows If You're A Dog factor, but they were a big name in G4--a videogames focused network when videogames were going through one of their inflection points into entertainment product mainstream) has word of mouth that it's certainly a very good game, but that the Greatest Of All Time review atmosphere right now is some of the most absurd score inflation they've ever seen.
It'll be interesting to see what general reception is after the honeymoon period ends. I like to remember things like Bioshock Infinite, which wasn't as intense but still very much on the glowing immediate reception, but not too long after there was a general feel of faintly embarrassed collar-tugging at its flaws. I wouldn't expect anywhere near the same post-honeymoon differential (From is a talented bunch, for the kind of thing they do) but still, it's something to keep in mind for anyone caught up in glowing press. Especially for those of us who've bounced off the Soulses and whatnot.
posted by Drastic at 8:26 AM on February 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
It'll be interesting to see what general reception is after the honeymoon period ends. I like to remember things like Bioshock Infinite, which wasn't as intense but still very much on the glowing immediate reception, but not too long after there was a general feel of faintly embarrassed collar-tugging at its flaws. I wouldn't expect anywhere near the same post-honeymoon differential (From is a talented bunch, for the kind of thing they do) but still, it's something to keep in mind for anyone caught up in glowing press. Especially for those of us who've bounced off the Soulses and whatnot.
posted by Drastic at 8:26 AM on February 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
>Sony makes bad choices sometimes.
I agree. If they hadn't made Horizon FW a PS exclusive they would have my money right now, and I'd be too busy playing to even read this post about Elden. Instead, looks like i'll be buying Elden at full price and maybe someday Sony can sell me FW at steam sale prices.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 8:39 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I agree. If they hadn't made Horizon FW a PS exclusive they would have my money right now, and I'd be too busy playing to even read this post about Elden. Instead, looks like i'll be buying Elden at full price and maybe someday Sony can sell me FW at steam sale prices.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 8:39 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I day one buy a game maybe once every few years. This is one I'm literally going to hop into the second it drops at 11 here. So dang pumped.
I can't wait to find the secret railroad dungeon.
posted by Ferreous at 8:40 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I can't wait to find the secret railroad dungeon.
posted by Ferreous at 8:40 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was just not going to bother. I don't like GRRM/GoT very much (too rapey) and I am old and slow and I don't need to be reminded of that by video games that are supposed to be fun. So I have very carefully stayed away from Souls games and all the macho, toxic, "Git Gud" chest-thumping bullshit that surrounds them.
But I love an open world. The God of War PC conversion made me so happy. Horizon (PC) even more so (no, I haven't started the new one yet, but it calls to me). BoTW held me spellbound for over 100 hours. I even 100%'d Shadow of Tomb Raider for goodness sake.
So all of these ecstatic reviews are making me think: Really? Do I really have to hate and berate myself, smash my keyboard and go to bed feeling like a failure just to experience the scant moments of open world joy the game will probably provide? Do I?
I guess so.
posted by The Bellman at 8:42 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
But I love an open world. The God of War PC conversion made me so happy. Horizon (PC) even more so (no, I haven't started the new one yet, but it calls to me). BoTW held me spellbound for over 100 hours. I even 100%'d Shadow of Tomb Raider for goodness sake.
So all of these ecstatic reviews are making me think: Really? Do I really have to hate and berate myself, smash my keyboard and go to bed feeling like a failure just to experience the scant moments of open world joy the game will probably provide? Do I?
I guess so.
posted by The Bellman at 8:42 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I noped right out of the Dark Souls stuff. There was zero fun to be had for me in those games*. So despite reading some reviews that say this one is hard but manageable, I think I'm just going to put it on the wishlist and try it in two or three years for $15.
* - It's not necessarily "hard" that annoys me, but the fact that you have to beat the same annoying enemies every time you go back past a region when I already spent 30 minutes barely beating them the first time? Hard pass.
posted by Grither at 8:43 AM on February 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
* - It's not necessarily "hard" that annoys me, but the fact that you have to beat the same annoying enemies every time you go back past a region when I already spent 30 minutes barely beating them the first time? Hard pass.
posted by Grither at 8:43 AM on February 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
Please let there be a Monster Factory for Elden Ring, please let there be a Monster Factory for Elden Ring..
posted by fight or flight at 8:49 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 8:49 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's not necessarily "hard" that annoys me, but the fact that you have to beat the same annoying enemies every time you go back past a region when I already spent 30 minutes barely beating them the first time?
So the thing about Soulsborne games is that they reward patience and attention. Once you learn an area (which honestly doesn't take very long) you can just... run past the enemies. It's a very different game design philosophy than was in vogue when Demon Souls/Dark Souls came out and I think you either love it or hate it.
For those of us who were getting annoyed at the constant hand-holding of games of that era, it's almost impossible to describe how refreshing Dark Souls was.
posted by rhymedirective at 8:53 AM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
So the thing about Soulsborne games is that they reward patience and attention. Once you learn an area (which honestly doesn't take very long) you can just... run past the enemies. It's a very different game design philosophy than was in vogue when Demon Souls/Dark Souls came out and I think you either love it or hate it.
For those of us who were getting annoyed at the constant hand-holding of games of that era, it's almost impossible to describe how refreshing Dark Souls was.
posted by rhymedirective at 8:53 AM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
So despite reading some reviews that say this one is hard but manageable
Another thing to factor in with the general dead horse I like to beat about glowing reviews (I know the dead horse boss's attack patterns very well!) is: Dark Souls boosters have said that about all of the games. Yes They're Hard But You Have All The Tools And. The set of what All The Tools entail just changes a bit based on the game; here it's an open world design gives leeway that a bossfight experience being Oh My God What isn't a total progression block till you work through it, since you can wander off in another direction and presumably get more game-mechanic-power and more qualitative play experience (there's always a whole largely unconscious feel to every game, individual quirks of timings and input delays in sticks and buttons and animations that repetition experience fuels).
Which very well might be the missing ingredient for many! But it's likewise a wait-for-sale situation for me; I've more than gotten on-sale-price money's worth out of Dark Souls and Bloodborne but know for a fact that full-pricing ain't my jam in From Soft joints.
posted by Drastic at 8:57 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Another thing to factor in with the general dead horse I like to beat about glowing reviews (I know the dead horse boss's attack patterns very well!) is: Dark Souls boosters have said that about all of the games. Yes They're Hard But You Have All The Tools And. The set of what All The Tools entail just changes a bit based on the game; here it's an open world design gives leeway that a bossfight experience being Oh My God What isn't a total progression block till you work through it, since you can wander off in another direction and presumably get more game-mechanic-power and more qualitative play experience (there's always a whole largely unconscious feel to every game, individual quirks of timings and input delays in sticks and buttons and animations that repetition experience fuels).
Which very well might be the missing ingredient for many! But it's likewise a wait-for-sale situation for me; I've more than gotten on-sale-price money's worth out of Dark Souls and Bloodborne but know for a fact that full-pricing ain't my jam in From Soft joints.
posted by Drastic at 8:57 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
>I was just not going to bother. I don't like GRRM/GoT very much (too rapey)
I was on the same page, I normally prefer my video game violence to lean cartoonish rather than grimdark, ( BOTW and H:ZD are perfect for me). I'm buoyed by the reviews that seem to imply there isn't a lot of obvious GRRM influence:
"Much has been made of George R.R. Martin's involvement, but there's little in Elden Ring that stands out as having his fingerprints on it."
"Also, in all honesty, George R.R Martin's heavy inclusion in the marketing for the game remains rather baffling; the exact nature of his contribution is unclear at best. "
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 8:59 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I was on the same page, I normally prefer my video game violence to lean cartoonish rather than grimdark, ( BOTW and H:ZD are perfect for me). I'm buoyed by the reviews that seem to imply there isn't a lot of obvious GRRM influence:
"Much has been made of George R.R. Martin's involvement, but there's little in Elden Ring that stands out as having his fingerprints on it."
"Also, in all honesty, George R.R Martin's heavy inclusion in the marketing for the game remains rather baffling; the exact nature of his contribution is unclear at best. "
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 8:59 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Please let there be a Monster Factory for Elden Ring, please let there be a Monster Factory for Elden Ring..
They're pretty done with Monster Factory for philosophical reasons; I'll see if I can make a post sometime soon. Justin was on Gender Reveal (the streams are crossing!) and talked about it there.
I have too much to do over the next few weeks and so will probably skip on something important to order to get some Elden Ring time in. Never got into Souls games for various reasons, but I have a new beefy PC, and some folks to play the multiplayer with, and I'm ready to sink into a vidya game.
posted by curious nu at 9:00 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
They're pretty done with Monster Factory for philosophical reasons; I'll see if I can make a post sometime soon. Justin was on Gender Reveal (the streams are crossing!) and talked about it there.
I have too much to do over the next few weeks and so will probably skip on something important to order to get some Elden Ring time in. Never got into Souls games for various reasons, but I have a new beefy PC, and some folks to play the multiplayer with, and I'm ready to sink into a vidya game.
posted by curious nu at 9:00 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Doesn't sound like this game is for me. I love open-world games full of exploration and quests and puzzles. Relentless combat and bosses and all of that stuff are things that just serve to drain my enjoyment.
posted by pipeski at 9:01 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by pipeski at 9:01 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm another one of those gamers who's less and less embarrassed about sliding the difficulty slider towards "easy" when it's available -- things are tough enough in real life, why emulate that in play?! -- but this might be the Souls game that finally draws me in.
The "do it again, stupid" games or the linear "if you can't beat this boss you can't progress" games aren't for me, but if I can go grind for a while and come back upgraded enough for my limited skills to beat that boss, that feels close enough to competence to be enjoyable.
posted by ook at 9:11 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
The "do it again, stupid" games or the linear "if you can't beat this boss you can't progress" games aren't for me, but if I can go grind for a while and come back upgraded enough for my limited skills to beat that boss, that feels close enough to competence to be enjoyable.
posted by ook at 9:11 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that's sort of what I liked about BotW - ok fine you can't beat a blight, go grind out some food or more trick arrows or better armor or whatever and come back later, you'll eventually bludgeon your way through them.
"Oops, you didn't dodge quick enough so now you're dead, come back later when you're 20 years younger" can fuck right off on the other hand.
posted by Kyol at 9:23 AM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
"Oops, you didn't dodge quick enough so now you're dead, come back later when you're 20 years younger" can fuck right off on the other hand.
posted by Kyol at 9:23 AM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
Since my hands can no longer deal with controllers well, I try and find a YouTube player who isn’t toxic (it takes some doing, but they are there), and I watch them play. It’s a decent way to experience some of the game.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:31 AM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:31 AM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
My stay-a-few-years behind the curve serves me well most of the time. I've still got a lot of great games I've never tried that this computer can handle just fine. And there's been quite a few good new games that don't demand the latest and greatest hardware. But, ugh. It's gonna be hard to wait a few years until the hardware that can handle this game well is cheap.
I've always had no patience for the old-school games that make you repeat the whole level over and over again just to get the part that kills you and sends you back until you learn to beat it. So tedious!
But Dark Souls sucked me in with the fantasy art that was like no other video game I'd played. And I found that, for this game, it felt more like Minecraft. There was a core of safety that gradually grew as I learned the terrain and got better at the combat and placed torches lit bonfires. More importantly, the challenge of the combat and navigating the terrain was interesting and tricky enough that traversing a section didn't feel like the same thing over and over. I kept finding new and better ways to do everything, constantly getting better rather than just coasting until I got to the part I hadn't gotten past yet.
I'm so excited that video game developers are taking the open-world thing and doing something better and different from just copying Rockstar and Ubisoft. (Even Ubisoft's recent Fenyx game genuinely learned from Breath of the Wild all kinds of stuff that make it better than their Assassin's Creed games.)
posted by straight at 9:33 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've always had no patience for the old-school games that make you repeat the whole level over and over again just to get the part that kills you and sends you back until you learn to beat it. So tedious!
But Dark Souls sucked me in with the fantasy art that was like no other video game I'd played. And I found that, for this game, it felt more like Minecraft. There was a core of safety that gradually grew as I learned the terrain and got better at the combat and
I'm so excited that video game developers are taking the open-world thing and doing something better and different from just copying Rockstar and Ubisoft. (Even Ubisoft's recent Fenyx game genuinely learned from Breath of the Wild all kinds of stuff that make it better than their Assassin's Creed games.)
posted by straight at 9:33 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
For watching playthroughs, I recommend searching for the "No commentary" versions.
posted by SunSnork at 9:43 AM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by SunSnork at 9:43 AM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
I feel like a kid on Xmas eve. It’s terribly unfair that I have to work tomorrow with the game unlocking at midnight tonight. Maybe I’ll stay up late and just make a character. Maybe I just won’t sleep. Maybe call in sick.
posted by rodlymight at 10:01 AM on February 24, 2022
posted by rodlymight at 10:01 AM on February 24, 2022
That 97 Meta score is reminding me - again - of the huge gulf between what I enjoy and what game critics enjoy. Credit Ars Technica for giving its review to someone who isn't all that fond of the Souls games, although he still has more patience for the masochistic "die and retry" style than I do.
All of which would be fine if not for two things:
1) A 97 score and reviews praising Elden Ring as "more accessible" may inspire more-casual, story-oriented RPG fans to drop $60-70 on something they'll play for 5-10 hours before giving up in frustration. I'm about 97% sure that would be my experience.
2) They just don't make big-budget/AAA, customizable, single-player, western-style RPGs anymore. I'm playing Mass Effect: Legendary and it's reminding me of how much more I liked games from roughly 2007-2015 (ending with Witcher III/Fallout 4). If I had similar new RPGs to play, I'd be playing those instead of making the ME2 Suicide Run for a 3rd time. The type of games I like have mostly been consigned to the indie/AA bin, plus the occasional JRPG that clicks with me.
Mind you, blame Bioware, Bethesda, and CDPR for moving to a "live service" model or releasing absolute debacles, but it's not like other studios stepped up either, so I wish I had something new to play as I gaze jealously at satisfied Souls fans. Fingers crossed that Starfield bucks the trend.
posted by frogstar42 at 11:00 AM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
All of which would be fine if not for two things:
1) A 97 score and reviews praising Elden Ring as "more accessible" may inspire more-casual, story-oriented RPG fans to drop $60-70 on something they'll play for 5-10 hours before giving up in frustration. I'm about 97% sure that would be my experience.
2) They just don't make big-budget/AAA, customizable, single-player, western-style RPGs anymore. I'm playing Mass Effect: Legendary and it's reminding me of how much more I liked games from roughly 2007-2015 (ending with Witcher III/Fallout 4). If I had similar new RPGs to play, I'd be playing those instead of making the ME2 Suicide Run for a 3rd time. The type of games I like have mostly been consigned to the indie/AA bin, plus the occasional JRPG that clicks with me.
Mind you, blame Bioware, Bethesda, and CDPR for moving to a "live service" model or releasing absolute debacles, but it's not like other studios stepped up either, so I wish I had something new to play as I gaze jealously at satisfied Souls fans. Fingers crossed that Starfield bucks the trend.
posted by frogstar42 at 11:00 AM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
A 97 score and reviews praising Elden Ring as "more accessible" may inspire more-casual, story-oriented RPG fans to drop $60-70 on something they'll play for 5-10 hours before giving up in frustration. I'm about 97% sure that would be my experience.
Mine too. I'm probably going to spend that money, be blown away by how breathtaking the whole thing looks, and give up after a few frustrating "accessible" mini-bosses.
They just don't make big-budget/AAA, customizable, single-player, western-style RPGs anymore.
I agree, for the most part, and that's what I want too. But if you scratch character customization (Aloy is Aloy, just as Geralt was Geralt), Horizon hits many of those same notes. And from what I've heard Forbidden West turns it up to 11 in terms of the RPG and exploration elements (possibly to its detriment).
posted by The Bellman at 11:24 AM on February 24, 2022
Mine too. I'm probably going to spend that money, be blown away by how breathtaking the whole thing looks, and give up after a few frustrating "accessible" mini-bosses.
They just don't make big-budget/AAA, customizable, single-player, western-style RPGs anymore.
I agree, for the most part, and that's what I want too. But if you scratch character customization (Aloy is Aloy, just as Geralt was Geralt), Horizon hits many of those same notes. And from what I've heard Forbidden West turns it up to 11 in terms of the RPG and exploration elements (possibly to its detriment).
posted by The Bellman at 11:24 AM on February 24, 2022
If all goes well, I'll be getting my Steam Deck order email tomorrow. Steam Deck + Elden Ring. That's a hell of a launch title.
Personally I'm one of those players who's been with Souls from the very beginning with Demon's Souls (thanks to a post here!), and I only get excited when I hear that some parts are the hardest Souls games have ever been. I'm all over that - even better that it doesn't come with the same level of frustration, because due to the open world structure, you can always explore a different area or take on a different challenge. That (plus fast travel) makes an enormous difference compared to your progress being effectively blocked by a single boss that you have to single-mindedly focus on and confront if you want to move forward.
posted by naju at 11:27 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Personally I'm one of those players who's been with Souls from the very beginning with Demon's Souls (thanks to a post here!), and I only get excited when I hear that some parts are the hardest Souls games have ever been. I'm all over that - even better that it doesn't come with the same level of frustration, because due to the open world structure, you can always explore a different area or take on a different challenge. That (plus fast travel) makes an enormous difference compared to your progress being effectively blocked by a single boss that you have to single-mindedly focus on and confront if you want to move forward.
posted by naju at 11:27 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
a YouTube player who isn’t toxic (it takes some doing, but they are there)
I'm partial to ChristopherOdd, who seems like a decent enough guy. He's just started on Elden Ring and there's only 1.5 hours' worth so far.
posted by Slothrup at 11:28 AM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm partial to ChristopherOdd, who seems like a decent enough guy. He's just started on Elden Ring and there's only 1.5 hours' worth so far.
posted by Slothrup at 11:28 AM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Horizon hits many of those same notes
I loved Horizon: ZD, but I decided to wait for a PS5 before I buy Horizon: FW.
posted by frogstar42 at 11:30 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I loved Horizon: ZD, but I decided to wait for a PS5 before I buy Horizon: FW.
posted by frogstar42 at 11:30 AM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Count me as another who picked up Demon's Souls 13 years ago and noted out after a day because I got frustrated and annoyed, and who is now considering trying again with Elden Ring. Thanks Drastic for the warning re: review inflation— I'll play Horizon: Forbidden West first and check back when the Elden-Ting-two-months-later reviews have dropped.
posted by ejs at 11:32 AM on February 24, 2022
posted by ejs at 11:32 AM on February 24, 2022
So the thing I haven't heard about H:FW is whether or not it was released with the more accessible play modes out of the gate, or if they'll be patched in after the hardcore fetishists have had their fun getting punched in the dick for a few months. No offense to the CBT fans, you be you, it's just not for me. (Or am I misremembering that ZD got the Story mode option post-release?)
I mean, it's moot, I just bought Cyberpunk for the nextgen patch at the "oops management fucked up this release" price point, and I still have to slog my way to the end of Guardians of the Galaxy and I'm about 3 tasks away from putting Prey: Mooncrash to bed, and there's all those Quality Entertainment Product Switch titles I've barely cracked the shrink wrap on, so by time I get around to Forbidden West it'll be a greatest hits title...
posted by Kyol at 11:46 AM on February 24, 2022
I mean, it's moot, I just bought Cyberpunk for the nextgen patch at the "oops management fucked up this release" price point, and I still have to slog my way to the end of Guardians of the Galaxy and I'm about 3 tasks away from putting Prey: Mooncrash to bed, and there's all those Quality Entertainment Product Switch titles I've barely cracked the shrink wrap on, so by time I get around to Forbidden West it'll be a greatest hits title...
posted by Kyol at 11:46 AM on February 24, 2022
A 97 score and reviews praising Elden Ring as "more accessible" may inspire more-casual, story-oriented RPG fans to drop $60-70 on something they'll play for 5-10 hours before giving up in frustration.
From's games really are weird. You really don't need to be that good at traditional gamer skills, but the vast majority of us need to get into and maintain a very particular mental attitude in order to progress. For most players, I think most of the skill and satisfaction involve managing one's emotions and instincts, not honing one's reactions. It's such a weird thing to be asked to do for fun (and to discover actually is fun) that it's sadly inevitable that most attempts to get into From games will end in failure. Buuuuut....I still want people to try, because some of them will succeed, and when From games click, the experience is not just enjoyable but genuinely enriching. The best literary comparison is probably Hilary Mantel. I cannot imagine how many (million?) copies of Wolf Hall have been abandoned at about page 100, but I can't regret the huge sales its reviews drove, because of its immense value to the readers who find the clicking point and can engage fully with Mantel's writing.
I think what looks promising about Elden Ring, for those who have bounced off past attempts at From games (off all of them, that is: even most people who love From games have bounced off at least one), is less that it sounds to be a bit easier minute-to-minute, or even that it seems to be somewhat more clearly explained, but that the open world itself offers a contrast to, and some degree of release from, the careful self-regulation under pressure that defines the From experience.
posted by howfar at 11:56 AM on February 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
From's games really are weird. You really don't need to be that good at traditional gamer skills, but the vast majority of us need to get into and maintain a very particular mental attitude in order to progress. For most players, I think most of the skill and satisfaction involve managing one's emotions and instincts, not honing one's reactions. It's such a weird thing to be asked to do for fun (and to discover actually is fun) that it's sadly inevitable that most attempts to get into From games will end in failure. Buuuuut....I still want people to try, because some of them will succeed, and when From games click, the experience is not just enjoyable but genuinely enriching. The best literary comparison is probably Hilary Mantel. I cannot imagine how many (million?) copies of Wolf Hall have been abandoned at about page 100, but I can't regret the huge sales its reviews drove, because of its immense value to the readers who find the clicking point and can engage fully with Mantel's writing.
I think what looks promising about Elden Ring, for those who have bounced off past attempts at From games (off all of them, that is: even most people who love From games have bounced off at least one), is less that it sounds to be a bit easier minute-to-minute, or even that it seems to be somewhat more clearly explained, but that the open world itself offers a contrast to, and some degree of release from, the careful self-regulation under pressure that defines the From experience.
posted by howfar at 11:56 AM on February 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
This thread ain’t about Horizon but I feel inclined to correct misinformation… Horizon FW does come with story mode and accessibility options out the box. (Really just google stuff like that before speculating.)
posted by Emily's Fist at 11:57 AM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Emily's Fist at 11:57 AM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
They're pretty done with Monster Factory for philosophical reasons; I'll see if I can make a post sometime soon.
A post would be great. Monster Factory has frequently been hilarious, and has occasionally transcended its limitations to deliver genuine emotional satisfaction, but the fundamental concept of creating a character who is ridiculous because of their appearance is inextricably linked to marginalisation and oppression, most obviously to ableism, racism and sexism. Justin and Griffin have clearly felt some unease about this for a long time, and I had wondered if the very limited number of post-Polygon videos reflected an increasing awareness of the problems with the premise.
I increasingly suspect that the only workable definition of a "decent person" is someone who is trying to become a decent person. I like the McElroys, and would be happy with an end to Monster Factory, as it seems to support my feeling that they fit into my (possibly unfashionably generous) concept of decency.
posted by howfar at 12:22 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
A post would be great. Monster Factory has frequently been hilarious, and has occasionally transcended its limitations to deliver genuine emotional satisfaction, but the fundamental concept of creating a character who is ridiculous because of their appearance is inextricably linked to marginalisation and oppression, most obviously to ableism, racism and sexism. Justin and Griffin have clearly felt some unease about this for a long time, and I had wondered if the very limited number of post-Polygon videos reflected an increasing awareness of the problems with the premise.
I increasingly suspect that the only workable definition of a "decent person" is someone who is trying to become a decent person. I like the McElroys, and would be happy with an end to Monster Factory, as it seems to support my feeling that they fit into my (possibly unfashionably generous) concept of decency.
posted by howfar at 12:22 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
The McElroys spoke to this on their Besties podcast and it’s exactly how you speculated, howfar. They talked about how making funny “spore” or silly “second life” creations is one thing but as video games get more and more realistic it becomes like “hey what’s the funniest skin color a person could have?” and is no longer a fun cute thing. I agree I’d love a FPP on the topic.
I hopped back in this thread just to say I’ve been watching ChristopherOdd’s Elden Ring play after it was recommended here, and second the recommendation if anyone wants a video with commentary that isn’t annoying. He seems to have a lowkey dry humor that suits the game’s bonkers elements.
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:31 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I hopped back in this thread just to say I’ve been watching ChristopherOdd’s Elden Ring play after it was recommended here, and second the recommendation if anyone wants a video with commentary that isn’t annoying. He seems to have a lowkey dry humor that suits the game’s bonkers elements.
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:31 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm counting the hours until midnight, and then see how long I can keep this increasingly decrepit body awake. Is Elden Ring for everyone? No. But for me, a huge fan since Dark Souls, it is almost certainly for me.
As for the glowing reviews vs. enjoying something, I'd say that everyone should go with their gut. Just because something is deemed to be good—by the good-deemers—doesn't mean you have to like it.
I am writing this, at least in part, because I've often felt that just because something was well-reviewed I was required to enjoy it. There've never been more amazing games of all sorts out there!
posted by rhooke at 12:32 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
As for the glowing reviews vs. enjoying something, I'd say that everyone should go with their gut. Just because something is deemed to be good—by the good-deemers—doesn't mean you have to like it.
I am writing this, at least in part, because I've often felt that just because something was well-reviewed I was required to enjoy it. There've never been more amazing games of all sorts out there!
posted by rhooke at 12:32 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I really disliked Dark Soul when I played it so I happily skipped all the games in the franchise and was going to do the same for Elden Ring until I watched (almost by accident) this review by Arlo. He seems to have disliked a lot of the same stuff I did about the first Dark Souls (like the backtracking when you die), and he loved Elden Ring. A lot of the backtracking and the time wasters appear to be mostly gone and everything else about it sounds great so I guess I'm getting it.
posted by simmering octagon at 12:35 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by simmering octagon at 12:35 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I fully intended to not preorder this or play it any time soon given that I'm playing and enjoying horizon, but I still did. Vaguely depressed by that moment of weakness.
This thread ain’t about Horizon but I feel inclined to correct misinformation…
Yes -- and also, the base version of horizon is dual platform (assuming that meant PS4/PS5). Very weird side-discussions given that the game is actually out (unlike Elden Ring at this particular moment).
posted by advil at 12:37 PM on February 24, 2022
This thread ain’t about Horizon but I feel inclined to correct misinformation…
Yes -- and also, the base version of horizon is dual platform (assuming that meant PS4/PS5). Very weird side-discussions given that the game is actually out (unlike Elden Ring at this particular moment).
posted by advil at 12:37 PM on February 24, 2022
YOU DIED
posted by adept256 at 1:01 PM on February 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 1:01 PM on February 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is one I'm literally going to hop into the second it drops at 11 here. So dang pumped.
PSA: The PC version unlocks at 6 PM Eastern time. Today. As in, 2 hours from now. The console versions release at midnight (Eastern) though.
posted by neckro23 at 1:03 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
PSA: The PC version unlocks at 6 PM Eastern time. Today. As in, 2 hours from now. The console versions release at midnight (Eastern) though.
posted by neckro23 at 1:03 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
The Souls games are easily the most addictive games I have ever played. I personally enjoyed Dark Souls 3 the most (almost finished it, got distracted eventually) and Bloodborne (got really far, also dropped it for something else).
There's simply no other games like these in existence. Yes they are difficult. But the gameplay loop is so gripping that for the most part I don't mind the difficulty. It's completely weird, but the difficulty is what makes it so addictive! Sounds contradictory, as I don't enjoy difficult games EXCEPT for From's Souls games. I was usually able to summon other players into my game to help me in certain areas. And interestingly, some parts that others struggled with? I found not-too-difficult. Yet I struggled with some parts others described as easy.
These games are just so, so deep in so many ways. It's hard to explain until you really dig in. I know I'm not going to convert anyone, but you have to get into the mindset that dying in these games is not really failing. It's just a different kind of game. You will die a lot. Everyone will die a lot. It's part of the game loop. It doesn't mean you are bad, you are just playing the game.
So many different ways to play. Again, without digging into the game yourself, it's hard to understand what I'm trying to convey. This game has a big overhaul on magic, which I am really happy about. I could never get the hang of magic in the other Souls games—at all. This game also has more summon-able help, and spells that summon allies to help. All sounds great to me.
I'm really looking forward to playing this. But I also fell into Horizon: Forbidden West. I'm playing it on a PS4 Pro, and for the record, the game runs astonishingly well. And without exaggeration, it's the best looking game I've ever played. Even the acting, facial expressions and direction of the cut scenes where you interact with NPCs is so goddamned good. H:FW has some issues, nothing is perfect. It ventures into "corny soap-opera" territory quite a bit, but if you just go with it, even those parts are great. But I've played about 15 hours of it and feel like I've only really just begun. And I've been enjoying the hell out of it.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:08 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
There's simply no other games like these in existence. Yes they are difficult. But the gameplay loop is so gripping that for the most part I don't mind the difficulty. It's completely weird, but the difficulty is what makes it so addictive! Sounds contradictory, as I don't enjoy difficult games EXCEPT for From's Souls games. I was usually able to summon other players into my game to help me in certain areas. And interestingly, some parts that others struggled with? I found not-too-difficult. Yet I struggled with some parts others described as easy.
These games are just so, so deep in so many ways. It's hard to explain until you really dig in. I know I'm not going to convert anyone, but you have to get into the mindset that dying in these games is not really failing. It's just a different kind of game. You will die a lot. Everyone will die a lot. It's part of the game loop. It doesn't mean you are bad, you are just playing the game.
So many different ways to play. Again, without digging into the game yourself, it's hard to understand what I'm trying to convey. This game has a big overhaul on magic, which I am really happy about. I could never get the hang of magic in the other Souls games—at all. This game also has more summon-able help, and spells that summon allies to help. All sounds great to me.
I'm really looking forward to playing this. But I also fell into Horizon: Forbidden West. I'm playing it on a PS4 Pro, and for the record, the game runs astonishingly well. And without exaggeration, it's the best looking game I've ever played. Even the acting, facial expressions and direction of the cut scenes where you interact with NPCs is so goddamned good. H:FW has some issues, nothing is perfect. It ventures into "corny soap-opera" territory quite a bit, but if you just go with it, even those parts are great. But I've played about 15 hours of it and feel like I've only really just begun. And I've been enjoying the hell out of it.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:08 PM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
The McElroys spoke to this on their Besties podcast and it’s exactly how you speculated, howfar.
Thank you! I've listened to most of the more recent Besties, but I must've missed this. It's of particular interest to me in relation my thoughts about the McElroys and ableism. The innumerable "fan" complaints about Travis (and, to a lesser extent, about Russ Frushtick, particularly back when Polygob were streaming PUBG a lot) seem little different from the ableist bullying I experienced as a kid growing up with ADHD. In both cases, I get the impression that Justin and Griffin are aware that their on-air interactions with Travis and Russ can foster, and sometimes have fostered, ableism, and probably even that they are inevitably structured by ableism, and make efforts to address this. But it's incredibly hard. For some of us, one of the good things about ADHD is the loving perplexity, fascination and hilarity that our differences can provoke in the people we trust. Relationships structured by societal oppression can still be healthy and positive (because otherwise pretty much no-one would have any positive relationships ever), but the parasocial sharing of (some aspects of) those relationships has unavoidable challenges. That's not a reason to hide them away, nor a cause for righteous condemnation, but it does call for fairly constant vigilance and effort to avoid adding to the oppression of marginalised people, and sometimes for a rethink and admission of error.
posted by howfar at 1:30 PM on February 24, 2022
Thank you! I've listened to most of the more recent Besties, but I must've missed this. It's of particular interest to me in relation my thoughts about the McElroys and ableism. The innumerable "fan" complaints about Travis (and, to a lesser extent, about Russ Frushtick, particularly back when Polygob were streaming PUBG a lot) seem little different from the ableist bullying I experienced as a kid growing up with ADHD. In both cases, I get the impression that Justin and Griffin are aware that their on-air interactions with Travis and Russ can foster, and sometimes have fostered, ableism, and probably even that they are inevitably structured by ableism, and make efforts to address this. But it's incredibly hard. For some of us, one of the good things about ADHD is the loving perplexity, fascination and hilarity that our differences can provoke in the people we trust. Relationships structured by societal oppression can still be healthy and positive (because otherwise pretty much no-one would have any positive relationships ever), but the parasocial sharing of (some aspects of) those relationships has unavoidable challenges. That's not a reason to hide them away, nor a cause for righteous condemnation, but it does call for fairly constant vigilance and effort to avoid adding to the oppression of marginalised people, and sometimes for a rethink and admission of error.
posted by howfar at 1:30 PM on February 24, 2022
The world and the creatures and the overall vision of Elden Ring looks utterly amazing and it's a shame I won't be playing it. Like many others, my body had a visceral and rejective reaction to Dark Souls when I tried it.
Also, I'm not glad that others enjoy it. I think they shouldn't and they are wrong if they do. The review-holes clambering over one another to give recent Soulslikes fawning accolades - "I'm a truer gamer than you, this is real games" like they're indie comics quislings talking about how Fletcher Hanks is as good as it will ever get - is embarrassing and unserious, as the games are inaccessible to the majority of players.
All that said, I'll probably try it when it's on GamePass. And I don't doubt it will kick my ass and I'll be angry all over again, like with that helicopter mission in that one GTA game.
The new Horizon, however? Finally a genuinely reason to upgrade my PS4 Pro to a PS5.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:21 PM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, I'm not glad that others enjoy it. I think they shouldn't and they are wrong if they do. The review-holes clambering over one another to give recent Soulslikes fawning accolades - "I'm a truer gamer than you, this is real games" like they're indie comics quislings talking about how Fletcher Hanks is as good as it will ever get - is embarrassing and unserious, as the games are inaccessible to the majority of players.
All that said, I'll probably try it when it's on GamePass. And I don't doubt it will kick my ass and I'll be angry all over again, like with that helicopter mission in that one GTA game.
The new Horizon, however? Finally a genuinely reason to upgrade my PS4 Pro to a PS5.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:21 PM on February 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
I try and find a YouTube player who isn’t toxic (it takes some doing, but they are there), and I watch them play.
Same! I watched a full Bloodborne playthrough on YouTube by some person playing Bloodborne who kept their mouth shut, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:37 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Same! I watched a full Bloodborne playthrough on YouTube by some person playing Bloodborne who kept their mouth shut, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:37 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
This just finished installing and I'm not gonna lie, I'm expecting this to be the greatest videogame ever even if it barely works on my PS4 (PS5s remain unattainable here).
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 4:46 PM on February 24, 2022
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 4:46 PM on February 24, 2022
As a big fan I'm sorry to hear so many of you have such a reaction to the Souls series games, but I get it - the fanbase can be awful (and they've become a weird point of capital-G Gamer identity for some).
That said, I really like them for the fact that once you play one you know the environment inside and out - it feels like a place in a way that most games just don't. The storytelling is interesting too - much more story by implication and reference than direct plot. They set a mood like few other games.
I agree with others that the gameplay itself is much less hardcore than the reputation would have you believe. I'm a player that always plays on the easiest mode whenever I can. I'm there for the story and the fun rather than the challenge. However, all of the souls games have really clicked with me for some reason. howfar's description above is a good one - the challenge for me is much more about managing your own reactions than it is about any inherent difficulty of the game. Again, very different from most games out there.
To those of you who have interest in Souls games but are put off by the entry hurdles or the fans, could I recommend checking out a let's play by Kay Plays? She's in the same boat at first, but she's such a good-natured player and approaches with such curiosity that it's fun to watch her work through it.
posted by owls at 4:59 PM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
That said, I really like them for the fact that once you play one you know the environment inside and out - it feels like a place in a way that most games just don't. The storytelling is interesting too - much more story by implication and reference than direct plot. They set a mood like few other games.
I agree with others that the gameplay itself is much less hardcore than the reputation would have you believe. I'm a player that always plays on the easiest mode whenever I can. I'm there for the story and the fun rather than the challenge. However, all of the souls games have really clicked with me for some reason. howfar's description above is a good one - the challenge for me is much more about managing your own reactions than it is about any inherent difficulty of the game. Again, very different from most games out there.
To those of you who have interest in Souls games but are put off by the entry hurdles or the fans, could I recommend checking out a let's play by Kay Plays? She's in the same boat at first, but she's such a good-natured player and approaches with such curiosity that it's fun to watch her work through it.
posted by owls at 4:59 PM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Souls-likes tend to be a deeply ableist genre, essentially telling people who have difficulty with working the controls accurately, or who don't have the razor-sharp reflexes necessary that they need not apply. And what's worse, the fanbase tends towards saying that people with e.g. neurological difficulties that they "suck" and need to "git gud".
I get that not everything has to be for everyone, but I can't be bothered to put my money into that kind of crap, no matter how good the worldbuilding.
posted by mrgoat at 5:12 PM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I get that not everything has to be for everyone, but I can't be bothered to put my money into that kind of crap, no matter how good the worldbuilding.
posted by mrgoat at 5:12 PM on February 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm excited about watching people play this lol. I really loved self critical automaton's DS1 playthrough and I hope to catch her Elden Ring stuff.
You rarely hear people talk about ludonarrative harmony, but Soulsebornes -- DS1 and BB especially -- have it in spades, and tons of very strong theming.
Like, the typical dissonance example is if someone in a game asks you to rescue their dog from a burning house, you can probably just go fishing for 14 hours and come back and rescue the dog. Soulsbornes don't fix that problem directly, they just don't even go there. In DS1/BB the game disrupts your sense of time anyway, it knows you have died over and over, it knows this 'mission' is something you don't want to do, or it won't help, or maybe you shouldn't do it. You're not trying to play some character in a normal story crudely mapped into a game engine; in the Soulsbornes your character IS a gamer & you are playing yourself.
posted by fleacircus at 6:01 PM on February 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
You rarely hear people talk about ludonarrative harmony, but Soulsebornes -- DS1 and BB especially -- have it in spades, and tons of very strong theming.
Like, the typical dissonance example is if someone in a game asks you to rescue their dog from a burning house, you can probably just go fishing for 14 hours and come back and rescue the dog. Soulsbornes don't fix that problem directly, they just don't even go there. In DS1/BB the game disrupts your sense of time anyway, it knows you have died over and over, it knows this 'mission' is something you don't want to do, or it won't help, or maybe you shouldn't do it. You're not trying to play some character in a normal story crudely mapped into a game engine; in the Soulsbornes your character IS a gamer & you are playing yourself.
posted by fleacircus at 6:01 PM on February 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
Also, I'm not glad that others enjoy it. I think they shouldn't and they are wrong if they do.
How can this be a serious opinion.
posted by kbanas at 6:58 PM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
How can this be a serious opinion.
posted by kbanas at 6:58 PM on February 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
And I don't doubt it will kick my ass and I'll be angry all over again, like with that helicopter mission in that one GTA game
That's exactly the wall I hit in that game as well. Not looking for that experience again.
posted by mollweide at 7:08 PM on February 24, 2022
That's exactly the wall I hit in that game as well. Not looking for that experience again.
posted by mollweide at 7:08 PM on February 24, 2022
From what I've heard this game is set up to be more approachable than some of From's others. Each bonfire-equivalent apparently gives you a pointer showing the direction of the next one, summoning help from other players is supposed to have been streamlined, invasions only occur during co-op unless you use a special please-invade-me item and there are now "spirits" or something that you can summon if you want help but don't want to do co-op.
It's unlikely to be easy, but it sounds like it's not going to be really hard unless you choose to make it that way by straying from the path or deliberately limiting the way you play.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 7:25 PM on February 24, 2022
It's unlikely to be easy, but it sounds like it's not going to be really hard unless you choose to make it that way by straying from the path or deliberately limiting the way you play.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 7:25 PM on February 24, 2022
The NPR article is very well written, and goes a long way towards capturing why this series of games are so precious for fans like myself.
At a time where lots of people, including myself, are anxious, I wasn't sure I'd want to play something so punishing. It's easy to pick up my staple games for Nintendo Switch and shut off my brain. But after realizing how exciting it was to conquer my fears, explore the Lands Between, and die over and over, Elden Ring became a joy, especially as my roommate watched on and laughed at my inevitable destruction.
Upon reflection, I am grateful that I could use the SoulsBorne games as my laboratory for overcoming fears and anxieties; for absorbing the lesson that I will make mistakes (many mistakes with important consequences) but I can always learn from them; and that some challenges will require me to unlearn some old habits in favor of newer ones if I am to prevail. The real world can be even more unforgiving than the SoulsBorne games.
Of course, there's plenty of other genres of games that can serve the same function to the players who need that kind of space, and I suppose it is a happy accident that From Software's games were the ones for me.
Having said that, I do agree with others to be a bit skeptical about the unanimous praise that Elden Ring is getting. It does seem like many of the mainstream press reviews we're seeing are authored by fans of the genre (who have already transcended their apprehensions towards the "FromSoft difficulty curve"). It'll be interesting to see the reviews from players who have never played a From Software title before, and learn how they approached the early game boss battles.
I finally finished Sekiro over my Christmas break, third time of asking, and I'm very excited to pick up a greatshield and play a big tanky boi this weekend. Make mistakes, learn from them, rinse, repeat, and ultimately succeed. GLHF.
posted by all the versus at 9:34 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
At a time where lots of people, including myself, are anxious, I wasn't sure I'd want to play something so punishing. It's easy to pick up my staple games for Nintendo Switch and shut off my brain. But after realizing how exciting it was to conquer my fears, explore the Lands Between, and die over and over, Elden Ring became a joy, especially as my roommate watched on and laughed at my inevitable destruction.
Upon reflection, I am grateful that I could use the SoulsBorne games as my laboratory for overcoming fears and anxieties; for absorbing the lesson that I will make mistakes (many mistakes with important consequences) but I can always learn from them; and that some challenges will require me to unlearn some old habits in favor of newer ones if I am to prevail. The real world can be even more unforgiving than the SoulsBorne games.
Of course, there's plenty of other genres of games that can serve the same function to the players who need that kind of space, and I suppose it is a happy accident that From Software's games were the ones for me.
Having said that, I do agree with others to be a bit skeptical about the unanimous praise that Elden Ring is getting. It does seem like many of the mainstream press reviews we're seeing are authored by fans of the genre (who have already transcended their apprehensions towards the "FromSoft difficulty curve"). It'll be interesting to see the reviews from players who have never played a From Software title before, and learn how they approached the early game boss battles.
I finally finished Sekiro over my Christmas break, third time of asking, and I'm very excited to pick up a greatshield and play a big tanky boi this weekend. Make mistakes, learn from them, rinse, repeat, and ultimately succeed. GLHF.
posted by all the versus at 9:34 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Reading the review from the person who had to perfectly hit the pattern 40 times to not get one shotted by a boss is giving me guitar hero and dance dance revolution flashbacks. So I'm going to wait for it to go on sale. Really, I'm waiting for a healthy modding community and a good, reliable, cheat engine table. Because the world sounds interesting and the game sounds fun. But given that I noped the fuck out of Ashen, which was given the description "Light Souls" in more than one review after the first boss because I couldn't get the attack patterns perfect for fifteen bored in a row, this is sounding like a big nope. I played half of Shadow of the Colossus before my gen1 PS3 was stolen and that's all the pattern memorization that I've ever needed.
I recently payed through Kena Bridge of Spirits. The game had Souls like elements, but you could turn that off. On easy, the super attacks slowly regenerated, instead of rebuilding only when you killed things. So I didn't have to learn attacks perfectly. If I mistimed a knights attack, I ran away for a moment and then came back at it. I died more from screwing up timed platforming segments than from combat. And I'm completely fine with that.
So I'll wait for a forgiving mode mod. One that allows more healing or more wiggle room with dodging or creating permanent saves wherever. Our maybe a god mode mod like Hades (the more you die, the easier things get). Those of you who have the patience for this, kudos.
posted by Hactar at 6:30 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I recently payed through Kena Bridge of Spirits. The game had Souls like elements, but you could turn that off. On easy, the super attacks slowly regenerated, instead of rebuilding only when you killed things. So I didn't have to learn attacks perfectly. If I mistimed a knights attack, I ran away for a moment and then came back at it. I died more from screwing up timed platforming segments than from combat. And I'm completely fine with that.
So I'll wait for a forgiving mode mod. One that allows more healing or more wiggle room with dodging or creating permanent saves wherever. Our maybe a god mode mod like Hades (the more you die, the easier things get). Those of you who have the patience for this, kudos.
posted by Hactar at 6:30 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
After playing it for 1.9 hours I'm somewhat undecided if I want to refund it or not. It's still hard but the QoL upgrades over Dark Souls are undeniable. My main problem is the performance, the PC port is weird. Runs like a dream 99.5% of the time and then it microstutters right in time to get you killed. I don't mind dying if it's my fault but it's really frustrating when it's something random like that.
posted by simmering octagon at 6:36 AM on February 25, 2022
posted by simmering octagon at 6:36 AM on February 25, 2022
simmering octagon: My absolute favorite game reviewer ACG reviewed this on a pre-release version on PC and then updated his opinion yesterday by noting that the Day One patch made the game worse for performance—at least on PC. Hopefully this will be fixed soon.
I highly recommend ACG. He is very transparent in his reviews, works hard to cover every issue, carefully hides spoilers and even discloses whatever NDAs the game company makes him agree to when posting reviews. No other reviewer I have found is as comprehensive and responsible. The guy and his staff are responsible and seem to have real integrity. Check out his YouTube channel.
I have not played this yet on any platform. I'm waiting to hear how performance and especially how long load times are on a PS4 Pro (cannot get a PS5 for the life of me).
posted by SoberHighland at 8:00 AM on February 25, 2022
I highly recommend ACG. He is very transparent in his reviews, works hard to cover every issue, carefully hides spoilers and even discloses whatever NDAs the game company makes him agree to when posting reviews. No other reviewer I have found is as comprehensive and responsible. The guy and his staff are responsible and seem to have real integrity. Check out his YouTube channel.
I have not played this yet on any platform. I'm waiting to hear how performance and especially how long load times are on a PS4 Pro (cannot get a PS5 for the life of me).
posted by SoberHighland at 8:00 AM on February 25, 2022
Just played for several hours. It runs a lot better than I expected on a base PS4; if anything it seems smoother than Bloodborne despite the open world (maybe because it's not trying to render three dozen statues and abandoned baby carriages in every frame) and even the load times aren't so bad (also, I think, better than Bloodborne). So far, anyway. And it's really, really good.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 8:15 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 8:15 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Was hoping for something to tide me over until Breath of the Wild 2 comes out, but after watching some playthrough videos... this ain't it.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:21 AM on February 25, 2022
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:21 AM on February 25, 2022
As a big fan I'm sorry to hear so many of you have such a reaction to the Souls series games, but I get it - the fanbase can be awful (and they've become a weird point of capital-G Gamer identity for some).
For me, I just don't enjoy boss battles. Especially bosses with tricks or stages to them, or bosses that require a particular style of gameplay that you might not enjoy (ie you have to use melee even if you're a max level stealth archer / stealth witch).
It's shaping up to be a good year for games, though, for all kindsa people. Forbidden West and Elden Ring so far, maybe the new Saint's Row will be good, and then it's the long wait for (ojala inshallah please) Starfield.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:30 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
For me, I just don't enjoy boss battles. Especially bosses with tricks or stages to them, or bosses that require a particular style of gameplay that you might not enjoy (ie you have to use melee even if you're a max level stealth archer / stealth witch).
It's shaping up to be a good year for games, though, for all kindsa people. Forbidden West and Elden Ring so far, maybe the new Saint's Row will be good, and then it's the long wait for (ojala inshallah please) Starfield.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:30 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
So, who else spent their first 15 minutes in the lands between looking for the gesture menu?
(It’s on the inventory screen)
posted by rodlymight at 8:37 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
(It’s on the inventory screen)
posted by rodlymight at 8:37 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Was hoping for something to tide me over until Breath of the Wild 2 comes out, but after watching some playthrough videos... this ain't it.
This is my first FromSoftware game that I'm giving a fair shot; I bounced off of Dark Souls Remastered ages ago and didn't bother to try very hard, due to a combination of life factors + underpowered PC.
In terms of open-world comparisons, this is much more like you're stuck in an endless nightmare, rather than the theme park or daytripping vibe that something like BOTW or Horizon offers. It doesn't invite you to explore, it just seems to be telling you that you CAN explore. A puzzle box, except it's the Hellraiser one. Or Cube. It also 100% does not hold your hand or tell you what the hell is going on. I'm stuck up against two bosses(? midbosses?) and I'm really confused as if I'm supposed to be able to fight them now and I just gotta git gud, or if there's.. something else that'd be more rewarding to do? I'm imagining my progress pace is going to be really slow.
posted by curious nu at 8:41 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is my first FromSoftware game that I'm giving a fair shot; I bounced off of Dark Souls Remastered ages ago and didn't bother to try very hard, due to a combination of life factors + underpowered PC.
In terms of open-world comparisons, this is much more like you're stuck in an endless nightmare, rather than the theme park or daytripping vibe that something like BOTW or Horizon offers. It doesn't invite you to explore, it just seems to be telling you that you CAN explore. A puzzle box, except it's the Hellraiser one. Or Cube. It also 100% does not hold your hand or tell you what the hell is going on. I'm stuck up against two bosses(? midbosses?) and I'm really confused as if I'm supposed to be able to fight them now and I just gotta git gud, or if there's.. something else that'd be more rewarding to do? I'm imagining my progress pace is going to be really slow.
posted by curious nu at 8:41 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I can't wait for Elden Ring. I loved, loved, loved King's Field back in the day, and I recall how sad I was when it looked like the series and its "feel" would be confined to the books of ancient lore of the gaming world.
The thing that is appealing about the From software games is that as difficult as they seem (and can sometimes be), they effectively have an element that is present in live RPG sessions but missing from about 99.99% of digital role-playing games: a DM saying, "You can certainly try..."
Can I poison the boss who spits poison a me and who I fight in a lake of poison? You can certainly try...and, holy shit, yeah, you can. (DS 2)
Can I stand juuuuuust outside the spot that triggers the boss fight and find an angle that lets me hit them with ranged attacks with impunity? You can certainly try...and for at least 2 bosses in the family of these games, yeah, you can. (DeS, DS 1)
There's a "bottomless" pit in this area, can I knock enemies -- including bosses! -- into it? You can certainly try...and, yep, some attacks will knock them in, and their own attack animations can cause them to fall too!
So the From games have always struck me as "tough but fair," and I've sometimes felt something akin to post-coital bliss after finally defeating a particularly difficult boss. :-D
(That said, I highly recommend playing only PvE and avoiding the comment sections on any video or guide you turn to for these games.)
posted by lord_wolf at 9:38 AM on February 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
The thing that is appealing about the From software games is that as difficult as they seem (and can sometimes be), they effectively have an element that is present in live RPG sessions but missing from about 99.99% of digital role-playing games: a DM saying, "You can certainly try..."
Can I poison the boss who spits poison a me and who I fight in a lake of poison? You can certainly try...and, holy shit, yeah, you can. (DS 2)
Can I stand juuuuuust outside the spot that triggers the boss fight and find an angle that lets me hit them with ranged attacks with impunity? You can certainly try...and for at least 2 bosses in the family of these games, yeah, you can. (DeS, DS 1)
There's a "bottomless" pit in this area, can I knock enemies -- including bosses! -- into it? You can certainly try...and, yep, some attacks will knock them in, and their own attack animations can cause them to fall too!
So the From games have always struck me as "tough but fair," and I've sometimes felt something akin to post-coital bliss after finally defeating a particularly difficult boss. :-D
(That said, I highly recommend playing only PvE and avoiding the comment sections on any video or guide you turn to for these games.)
posted by lord_wolf at 9:38 AM on February 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
Was hoping for something to tide me over until Breath of the Wild 2 comes out, but after watching some playthrough videos... this ain't it.
I've been surprised out how much I like that Ubisoft Fenyx game, which is the complete opposite direction from Breath of the Wild. If Elden is a less-friendly, less-hand-holding version of BotW, Fenyx is a puppy that just wants to please you. Like the way you can go frictionlessly from riding a horse to climbing to gliding to riding your horse the instant you land. The game's version of puzzle shrines aren't quite as clever and smart as BotW's but they and the overworld puzzles are consistently more interesting than I expected. I thought I would hate the humor, but while dumb, it's managed to stay just on the right side of charming vs annoying.
posted by straight at 9:53 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've been surprised out how much I like that Ubisoft Fenyx game, which is the complete opposite direction from Breath of the Wild. If Elden is a less-friendly, less-hand-holding version of BotW, Fenyx is a puppy that just wants to please you. Like the way you can go frictionlessly from riding a horse to climbing to gliding to riding your horse the instant you land. The game's version of puzzle shrines aren't quite as clever and smart as BotW's but they and the overworld puzzles are consistently more interesting than I expected. I thought I would hate the humor, but while dumb, it's managed to stay just on the right side of charming vs annoying.
posted by straight at 9:53 AM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I really don’t feel like BOTW “holds your hand” but folks have said so a few times now. I would use that phrase for games that walk you through every solution and rarely let you do your own thing, which isn’t my experience with BOTW in the least. BOTW really lets you run off leash. It seems sorta pejorative/indicative of that “macho” souls culture folks were discussing to call games hand holding just for having a lower difficulty curve/ceiling or including tutorial elements to introduce new concepts.
posted by Emily's Fist at 10:46 AM on February 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Emily's Fist at 10:46 AM on February 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
I meant hand-holding on a relative scale. BOTW is less hand-holding than most Zelda games (and most Ubisoft games, for instance), but it's less obscure and confusing than Souls games.
You're right that "hand-holding" sounds condescending, and I'd welcome a better term that includes both how much a game explains things and how much it lets you run off and do your own thing and get into as much trouble as you want to.
posted by straight at 11:25 AM on February 25, 2022
You're right that "hand-holding" sounds condescending, and I'd welcome a better term that includes both how much a game explains things and how much it lets you run off and do your own thing and get into as much trouble as you want to.
posted by straight at 11:25 AM on February 25, 2022
BOTW does a good job of signposting, maybe? You know what’s next but are free to wander as you want and it’ll keep til you’re ready. There aren’t rails and it doesn’t nag you to follow those signs; they’re available when you want them.
posted by curious nu at 12:02 PM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by curious nu at 12:02 PM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I try and find a YouTube player who isn’t toxic (it takes some doing, but they are there), and I watch them play.
May I recommend:
Emmalition (currently playing Elden Ring)
Symbalily
Sarah Carlos (currently playing Elden Ring)
Gab Smolders (currentlly playing Elden Ring)
posted by conrad53 at 1:06 PM on February 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
May I recommend:
Emmalition (currently playing Elden Ring)
Symbalily
Sarah Carlos (currently playing Elden Ring)
Gab Smolders (currentlly playing Elden Ring)
posted by conrad53 at 1:06 PM on February 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Signposting is good, I also think one could discuss how much “guidance” a game offers to players.
posted by Emily's Fist at 1:08 PM on February 25, 2022
posted by Emily's Fist at 1:08 PM on February 25, 2022
Elden Ring is like if every enemy in BotW was a Lynel with no shrines to teach you about flurry rush.
posted by simmering octagon at 4:09 PM on February 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by simmering octagon at 4:09 PM on February 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm stuck up against two bosses(? midbosses?) and I'm really confused as if I'm supposed to be able to fight them now and I just gotta git gud, or if there's.. something else that'd be more rewarding to do? I'm imagining my progress pace is going to be really slow.
One thing I’ve found in my time playing Soulsborne games that has stayed true in my 3 hours in Elden Ring so far—if you’re doing, like, half a percent of damage to a boss’s healthbar, it’s time to go do something else. Either your weapon isn’t up to par, or you need to level for more damage, or something.
posted by rhymedirective at 5:26 PM on February 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
One thing I’ve found in my time playing Soulsborne games that has stayed true in my 3 hours in Elden Ring so far—if you’re doing, like, half a percent of damage to a boss’s healthbar, it’s time to go do something else. Either your weapon isn’t up to par, or you need to level for more damage, or something.
posted by rhymedirective at 5:26 PM on February 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Having just snatched an hour to play it, I can confirm that whatever else Elden Ring is, it's a fucking great FromSoftware game. It also seems somewhat more accessible in execution of the central From loop, in level design and also tonally. The world is still Lovecraftian, but it feels like the Lovecraft of the Dreamlands. That is to say it in fact feels more Dunsanian than anything else (particularly as the plot will doubtless be incomprehensible in any realist paradigm). I have always loved Dunsany's atmosphere of sinister whimsy, and there's nothing more sinisterly whimsical than edging closer to a happily paddling giant tortoise to see if it's going to pounce and bite my head off (it didn't...at least not this time). I don't immediately detect any of Martin's grubby pawprints on it, which I regard as an unalloyed blessing, given how queasy his writing always makes me feel.
But yeah, the PC version is in dire need of another patch to address the stutters. I'm running it off an SSD on a decent PC, but even knocking the resolution down to 1080p doesn't eliminate them.
Also those vanishing gargoyle things are sneaky little fuckers.
Discussing issue of ableism in game design (which I think is significantly distinct from Western gamer culture) is somewhat more challenging than I think polemicists of all perspectives acknowledge. For what it's worth, however, I (as a disabled gamer with impairments affecting motor control, reactions and executive functions) don't think that From's games are notably ableist, despite the fact that they often challenge me in my areas of greatest weakness (impulse control is the one that gets me most). There are definitely adjustment options that From could and should offer (engine speed, at the very least, is easy although not without limitations, and it seems like a way to increase the amount of signalling at the start of enemy attack animations would be possible, as another example), but real adjustments are not a set of solutions you can simply bolt onto every game and expect accessibility to magically emerge. It's certainly simple to create modes that allow people to see the plot and world of any game, but that alone doesn't necessarily deliver significant access to the actual experiential content of a game, particularly given how varied and ambiguous the nature of such content is. That doesn't mean that From, or the games industry in general, put enough effort into accessibility, but it does mean that the effort required is much greater than that which is expected from other media. The changes needed to convey the experience of a game to a wider range of people to be considered from the first stages of design onward, while other media are allowed to rely upon third parties (subtitlers, transcribers, audio describers, distributors etc) to provide (a limited degree of) access to the experience. That said, we're talking about the world's most profitable entertainment industry, and we should keep demanding the kind of thoughtful work required to make its products as accessible as possible to all.
posted by howfar at 5:59 PM on February 25, 2022 [9 favorites]
But yeah, the PC version is in dire need of another patch to address the stutters. I'm running it off an SSD on a decent PC, but even knocking the resolution down to 1080p doesn't eliminate them.
Also those vanishing gargoyle things are sneaky little fuckers.
Discussing issue of ableism in game design (which I think is significantly distinct from Western gamer culture) is somewhat more challenging than I think polemicists of all perspectives acknowledge. For what it's worth, however, I (as a disabled gamer with impairments affecting motor control, reactions and executive functions) don't think that From's games are notably ableist, despite the fact that they often challenge me in my areas of greatest weakness (impulse control is the one that gets me most). There are definitely adjustment options that From could and should offer (engine speed, at the very least, is easy although not without limitations, and it seems like a way to increase the amount of signalling at the start of enemy attack animations would be possible, as another example), but real adjustments are not a set of solutions you can simply bolt onto every game and expect accessibility to magically emerge. It's certainly simple to create modes that allow people to see the plot and world of any game, but that alone doesn't necessarily deliver significant access to the actual experiential content of a game, particularly given how varied and ambiguous the nature of such content is. That doesn't mean that From, or the games industry in general, put enough effort into accessibility, but it does mean that the effort required is much greater than that which is expected from other media. The changes needed to convey the experience of a game to a wider range of people to be considered from the first stages of design onward, while other media are allowed to rely upon third parties (subtitlers, transcribers, audio describers, distributors etc) to provide (a limited degree of) access to the experience. That said, we're talking about the world's most profitable entertainment industry, and we should keep demanding the kind of thoughtful work required to make its products as accessible as possible to all.
posted by howfar at 5:59 PM on February 25, 2022 [9 favorites]
I've played for nearly ten hours now, and I'm probably well over 100 deaths, so it's maybe not the easiest game ever if anyone was worried about that. (I've played through all of From's modern games many times and platinumed the last three, for what it's worth.)
But it's great fun and most of my deaths are from stupid stubbornness anyway. If any area or boss gets frustrating you can just move on and find all sorts of more manageable areas with plenty of useful XP and loot to make you stronger.
The sheer scale of the game is both terrifying and wonderful to me. I'm still exploring the first region.
posted by Dumsnill at 7:37 PM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
But it's great fun and most of my deaths are from stupid stubbornness anyway. If any area or boss gets frustrating you can just move on and find all sorts of more manageable areas with plenty of useful XP and loot to make you stronger.
The sheer scale of the game is both terrifying and wonderful to me. I'm still exploring the first region.
posted by Dumsnill at 7:37 PM on February 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
That is to say it in fact feels more Dunsanian than anything else. I have always loved Dunsany's atmosphere of sinister whimsy
Wow, what a great comparison--except for how much more impatient it makes me to someday play this game. I think the earlier Souls games also have some stuff that scratches a similar "fantasy from before D&D" itch that Dunsany does.
posted by straight at 11:12 PM on February 25, 2022
Wow, what a great comparison--except for how much more impatient it makes me to someday play this game. I think the earlier Souls games also have some stuff that scratches a similar "fantasy from before D&D" itch that Dunsany does.
posted by straight at 11:12 PM on February 25, 2022
Mentally I associate hand holding more with the ubi/Bethesda model of everything has markers, you have a target marker on your compass that immediately updates the second you hit the next step etc. It's not bad per se but it is definitely more leading version of game design. Elden and botw have a lot more in common in terms of letting you run around and figure things out as you go.
I have noticed some places where elden is trying to teach you lessons on how the game is played. Minor spoilers ahead
The cave off of the beach in the first area features a boss room with two main bosses and tons of adds and it feels like it's there explicitly to tell the player "use your npc summon skills to manage aggro". The weird cat statue boss is there to teach you the cadence of attacks are different than in older souls games, lots of enemies "cook" their attack animations longer before going into hit frames.
posted by Ferreous at 5:23 AM on February 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have noticed some places where elden is trying to teach you lessons on how the game is played. Minor spoilers ahead
The cave off of the beach in the first area features a boss room with two main bosses and tons of adds and it feels like it's there explicitly to tell the player "use your npc summon skills to manage aggro". The weird cat statue boss is there to teach you the cadence of attacks are different than in older souls games, lots of enemies "cook" their attack animations longer before going into hit frames.
posted by Ferreous at 5:23 AM on February 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
>I try and find a YouTube player who isn’t toxic (it takes some doing, but they are there), and I watch them play.
Supergreatfriend is great. And so nice.
posted by One Hand Slowclapping at 3:56 PM on February 26, 2022
Supergreatfriend is great. And so nice.
posted by One Hand Slowclapping at 3:56 PM on February 26, 2022
(via twitter): For the first time I've been able to distill why I like a lot of challenging games, but do not like playing FromSoft games, or bleeding-edge raiding.
Mastering *systems* is fun for me, mastering *content* is a chore.
Mulling on this as it resonates a lot with me. Have about 10 hours into Elden, still can't do more than half damage (maybe one time I got him to 1/3) of the first major story boss and that's with the summon NPC and some bell spirits. I'm going to have to watch some videos, because I don't believe I'm going to be able to learn the patterns in the middle of the fight; I get overstimulated and panicked, since a couple of hits will absolutely kill me. Also whatever the patterns are makes no sense.
What I'm struggling with is that I really enjoy Monster Hunter games, and -that- content-mastery is interesting and fun for me. This is something else and I'm unsure what the difference is.
I have enough life-challenges going on that a frustrating game is too much right now I think. :/ I'll still continue to explore around the parts of the map I've found, maybe try and figure out how to parry/dodge better, but I don't know if/when I'll try and actually do the story progression.
posted by curious nu at 11:04 AM on February 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Mastering *systems* is fun for me, mastering *content* is a chore.
Mulling on this as it resonates a lot with me. Have about 10 hours into Elden, still can't do more than half damage (maybe one time I got him to 1/3) of the first major story boss and that's with the summon NPC and some bell spirits. I'm going to have to watch some videos, because I don't believe I'm going to be able to learn the patterns in the middle of the fight; I get overstimulated and panicked, since a couple of hits will absolutely kill me. Also whatever the patterns are makes no sense.
What I'm struggling with is that I really enjoy Monster Hunter games, and -that- content-mastery is interesting and fun for me. This is something else and I'm unsure what the difference is.
I have enough life-challenges going on that a frustrating game is too much right now I think. :/ I'll still continue to explore around the parts of the map I've found, maybe try and figure out how to parry/dodge better, but I don't know if/when I'll try and actually do the story progression.
posted by curious nu at 11:04 AM on February 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've been playing this and enjoying it, but I'm not really as blown away as I feel like I ought to be given reviews, and I'm already kind of falling into a love/hate pattern. I really do enjoy combat in From games and this one provides a ton of that, I also enjoy the overall feel of these games + the environmental worldbuilding, still holding true here (with caveats below).
But. What I find bizarre is just how little this game actually seems to stray from From's comfort zone, despite the open-worldness of it all. The game systems / weapons / movesets are an incremental change (there are weapons in this game that were already in Demon's Souls!), the enemies to me at least all feel extremely familiar (up to the relatively small portion of the game I've explored), the world remains largely empty of meaningful npc interaction (relative to its overall size, sure the absolute number maybe is up) and it's just very uninhabited in general, the success of kiting tactics is if anything amped up by the open parts of the game, in most non-boss locations you can just run past everything as usual, etc. Also, I very much like the environment but, going along with the population levels, it appears that yet again there's another From world where there is no conceivable path between the economic activity represented in the buildings/structures and items in the world and the current state of things. The addition of stealth is sometimes interesting but the flipside is that it makes it even more possible to rely on backstabs + tedious kiting + more backstabs, at least in open world areas. The horse is well-implemented though, and the existence of jump felt very natural after just a bit of time with the game. It is very good that they finally seem to have just given in and mostly placed restore points very near the bosses that you're going to die a million times to.
My biggest complaint perhaps: despite the interesting-seeming world, I unfortunately have to agree so far with one review I saw that described the plot/writing as "high fantasy gibberish".
I'm also pretty baffled by the skyrim comparisons, though maybe I'm not far enough along to see it? But I don't even know where to start on how unlike skyrim this game seems to me. Never played BOTW so I can't assess that comparison.
posted by advil at 12:29 PM on February 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
But. What I find bizarre is just how little this game actually seems to stray from From's comfort zone, despite the open-worldness of it all. The game systems / weapons / movesets are an incremental change (there are weapons in this game that were already in Demon's Souls!), the enemies to me at least all feel extremely familiar (up to the relatively small portion of the game I've explored), the world remains largely empty of meaningful npc interaction (relative to its overall size, sure the absolute number maybe is up) and it's just very uninhabited in general, the success of kiting tactics is if anything amped up by the open parts of the game, in most non-boss locations you can just run past everything as usual, etc. Also, I very much like the environment but, going along with the population levels, it appears that yet again there's another From world where there is no conceivable path between the economic activity represented in the buildings/structures and items in the world and the current state of things. The addition of stealth is sometimes interesting but the flipside is that it makes it even more possible to rely on backstabs + tedious kiting + more backstabs, at least in open world areas. The horse is well-implemented though, and the existence of jump felt very natural after just a bit of time with the game. It is very good that they finally seem to have just given in and mostly placed restore points very near the bosses that you're going to die a million times to.
My biggest complaint perhaps: despite the interesting-seeming world, I unfortunately have to agree so far with one review I saw that described the plot/writing as "high fantasy gibberish".
I'm also pretty baffled by the skyrim comparisons, though maybe I'm not far enough along to see it? But I don't even know where to start on how unlike skyrim this game seems to me. Never played BOTW so I can't assess that comparison.
posted by advil at 12:29 PM on February 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
The game systems / weapons / movesets are an incremental change (there are weapons in this game that were already in Demon's Souls!)
Yeah, I agree with this. After many hours my Prisoner is still using the estoc he started with, which is basically the same as the estoc I used in Dark Souls back in 2011. Along with that he has a scimitar, a falchion, a long sword, a morning star and a few other very familiar objects. Hopefully there'll be more interesting things to find when I get out of the starting area (which I'm still exploring; it seems vast).
The addition of stealth is sometimes interesting but the flipside is that it makes it even more possible to rely on backstabs + tedious kiting + more backstabs, at least in open world areas.
I think this is deliberate, as part of their rather clever approach to difficulty. Problems in From games almost always have multiple solutions: there's the most fun way which is also the most challenging and risky (e.g. walking through the enemy's front gate and taking on all comers), then there are easier ways that are less exciting and take longer and/or involve tedious preparation (sneaking around, crafting consumable items, going through some convoluted process to summon assistance, using magic and juggling the two kinds of recovery flask, grinding to level up etc.). This lets less-skilled players still play the game, while nudging them to get better until they're good enough to handle the challenge without the assistance.
Anyway, I found a comment in the Elden Ring thread on quartertothree that perfectly expresses what I love about this game so far:
Yeah, I agree with this. After many hours my Prisoner is still using the estoc he started with, which is basically the same as the estoc I used in Dark Souls back in 2011. Along with that he has a scimitar, a falchion, a long sword, a morning star and a few other very familiar objects. Hopefully there'll be more interesting things to find when I get out of the starting area (which I'm still exploring; it seems vast).
The addition of stealth is sometimes interesting but the flipside is that it makes it even more possible to rely on backstabs + tedious kiting + more backstabs, at least in open world areas.
I think this is deliberate, as part of their rather clever approach to difficulty. Problems in From games almost always have multiple solutions: there's the most fun way which is also the most challenging and risky (e.g. walking through the enemy's front gate and taking on all comers), then there are easier ways that are less exciting and take longer and/or involve tedious preparation (sneaking around, crafting consumable items, going through some convoluted process to summon assistance, using magic and juggling the two kinds of recovery flask, grinding to level up etc.). This lets less-skilled players still play the game, while nudging them to get better until they're good enough to handle the challenge without the assistance.
Anyway, I found a comment in the Elden Ring thread on quartertothree that perfectly expresses what I love about this game so far:
This feels more like Gygaxian D&D than any other video game I’ve played. There’s a world, you’re dropped into it, it’s super lethal and full of batshit crazy traps and monsters. No DM is going to guide you down a happy path. Every path is open, every resource is valuable and worth considering.posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 7:20 PM on February 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
The weird cat statue boss is there to teach you the cadence of attacks are different than in older souls games, lots of enemies "cook" their attack animations longer before going into hit frames.
I absolutely love the cat statue boss, the Erdtree Burial Watchdog, because it's animated like a statue of a cat that is being magically animated. It doesn't move like a cat, or like a person in a cat suit. It doesn't feel like an organic creature that just so happens to have a stone texture instead of a flesh texture. It really does feel like a statue that is being moved around and animated by magic, and that's a wonderful bit of work by Fromsoft's animators.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:30 PM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I absolutely love the cat statue boss, the Erdtree Burial Watchdog, because it's animated like a statue of a cat that is being magically animated. It doesn't move like a cat, or like a person in a cat suit. It doesn't feel like an organic creature that just so happens to have a stone texture instead of a flesh texture. It really does feel like a statue that is being moved around and animated by magic, and that's a wonderful bit of work by Fromsoft's animators.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:30 PM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have not played this yet on any platform. I'm waiting to hear how performance and especially how long load times are on a PS4 Pro
I very, very strongly recommend that you pick up something like a Samsung T5 external SSD. The USB 3.0 combined with the massive read/write improvements you find on a SSD cut PS4 Pro load times by a significant amount.
I used to play a lot of Hunt: Showdown on my PS4 Pro and after I plugged in the SSD my load times were cut in half.
250GB is more than enough for three or four PS4 game installs, and it will improve your console experience significantly. Literally a game-changer.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:03 PM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I very, very strongly recommend that you pick up something like a Samsung T5 external SSD. The USB 3.0 combined with the massive read/write improvements you find on a SSD cut PS4 Pro load times by a significant amount.
I used to play a lot of Hunt: Showdown on my PS4 Pro and after I plugged in the SSD my load times were cut in half.
250GB is more than enough for three or four PS4 game installs, and it will improve your console experience significantly. Literally a game-changer.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:03 PM on March 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
To piggyback Yes And on the SSD recommendation in general: if you're comfortable with some degree of computer DIY, the PS4 and Pro make replacing the internal hard drive pretty easy. Official instructions on the playstation site and there's plenty of walkthroughs of the process on youtube and elsewhere as well. Load time improvements for pretty much anything played on the system range from small but noticeably nice quality of life improvement, to shockingly nice, and really makes it clear why the console generation after moved to SSD from the start.
posted by Drastic at 6:05 AM on March 11, 2022
posted by Drastic at 6:05 AM on March 11, 2022
I absolutely love the cat statue boss, the Erdtree Burial Watchdog, because it's animated like a statue of a cat that is being magically animated.
I like to imagine the watchdog laboriously rebuilding all the destruction it caused while it waits for the next tarnished to show up….
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:11 AM on March 15, 2022
I like to imagine the watchdog laboriously rebuilding all the destruction it caused while it waits for the next tarnished to show up….
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:11 AM on March 15, 2022
I keep seeing this in my recents and feel sort of bad my last comment here skewed so negative, as I'm still extremely addicted to this game. I still think it won't really work for people who don't fundamentally want to try out playing a Fromsoft game, but for a game that inherits most of the quirks of that microgenre, it really is superlative.
I've been thinking more about the Skyrim comparison. I think this can be misleading, because there are many reasons people like skyrim and this doesn't check every box (far from it, hence my initial reaction). But, the feeling of a giant world to explore where you are going to find new and interesting things around every corner (which was a Skyrim box for me) is definitely here in spades.
Also, they finally made a real open-world concession to new players: as of a recent update, any NPC you can talk to is marked on the map.
posted by advil at 7:46 AM on March 19, 2022
I've been thinking more about the Skyrim comparison. I think this can be misleading, because there are many reasons people like skyrim and this doesn't check every box (far from it, hence my initial reaction). But, the feeling of a giant world to explore where you are going to find new and interesting things around every corner (which was a Skyrim box for me) is definitely here in spades.
Also, they finally made a real open-world concession to new players: as of a recent update, any NPC you can talk to is marked on the map.
posted by advil at 7:46 AM on March 19, 2022
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