"to restore a more traditional set of aesthetics and outcomes"
April 6, 2022 4:42 AM Subscribe
After more limited trial runs in the 2021-2022 season, in March "Major League Baseball ... announced a variety of experimental playing rules that have been approved by the Competition Committee and the Playing Rules Committee for use during the 2022 Minor League season." "Consistent with the preferences of fans, these rules are designed to improve the pace of play, create more action on the field, and reduce player injuries." Minor league teams will test out a pitch timer ("to create a crisp pace of play"), larger bases, and constraints on defensive positioning ("a minimum of four players on the infield, with at least two infielders completely on either side of second base"). If the rules work well in the minor leagues this year, then MLB might alter its major league rules in the future.
On a related note, here’s a New York Times article about nationalizing the major leagues.
posted by Slinga at 5:39 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 5:39 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
How many comments till "actually pitchers taking ages between throws is good and important for the game"
posted by Ferreous at 5:40 AM on April 6, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 5:40 AM on April 6, 2022 [14 favorites]
Well actually, pitchers taking their time between throws is a good and important aspect of the game.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:45 AM on April 6, 2022 [65 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:45 AM on April 6, 2022 [65 favorites]
Meanwhile, baseball is the only sport I can think of where the arena, i.e. the baseball field, does not have a standardized size. Do any two outfields match in MLB?
Imagine an NFL where endzones had different distances from the 50-yard-line depending on the city, or an NBA where the baskets were just a few inches different height on every court.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 5:52 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Imagine an NFL where endzones had different distances from the 50-yard-line depending on the city, or an NBA where the baskets were just a few inches different height on every court.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 5:52 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, baseball is the only sport I can think of where the arena, i.e. the baseball field, does not have a standardized size.
Soccer fields have a set of minimum and maximums widths/lengths but there is no standard size.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 6:02 AM on April 6, 2022 [20 favorites]
Soccer fields have a set of minimum and maximums widths/lengths but there is no standard size.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 6:02 AM on April 6, 2022 [20 favorites]
Second base. Has been. In the wrong place. For more than a century. WHAT THE FUCK MATT.
posted by Etrigan at 6:07 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:07 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
I don't really follow baseball as much as I used to, but I hate the banning of the shift.
If a batter so predictably and consistently pulls a ball to one side that the defense can shift to counter them, it should be on that batter to adapt and take advantage of the gaping hole that the shift leaves.
posted by explosion at 6:11 AM on April 6, 2022 [20 favorites]
If a batter so predictably and consistently pulls a ball to one side that the defense can shift to counter them, it should be on that batter to adapt and take advantage of the gaping hole that the shift leaves.
posted by explosion at 6:11 AM on April 6, 2022 [20 favorites]
Soccer fields have a set of minimum and maximums widths/lengths but there is no standard size.
It upset me deeply the day I learned that in… FIFA I think? that you could legally have a perfectly square soccer field
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:14 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
It upset me deeply the day I learned that in… FIFA I think? that you could legally have a perfectly square soccer field
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:14 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
here’s a New York Times article about nationalizing the major leagues.
I have been saying this for years. Public ownership of all major league sports teams, with the general manager as an elected position, and all the revenue going to cities and states.
posted by Jon_Evil at 6:18 AM on April 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
I have been saying this for years. Public ownership of all major league sports teams, with the general manager as an elected position, and all the revenue going to cities and states.
posted by Jon_Evil at 6:18 AM on April 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
My headline: Major League Baseball announces... changes to their MINOR leagues.
To me, that's the real story: MLB did a huge flex in restructuring the minor leagues in 2020, hamstringing independent leagues, and codifying team affiliations moving forward.
The negative effect on independent leagues -- such as the now-dissolved New York-Penn League, which supplied my youthful upstate NY evenings with soda, popcorn, and quality baseball (...and later I played a slick centerfield in a couple of their parks in high school #humblebrag) -- is hard to understate.
Having a trial ground for playing rules is one, conspicuous advantage for the new system. But addressing the less-than-living-wages for minor league players is a potential upside to the restructuring.
It's been a year since this huge organizational shift. MLB & the ownership (rightfully) doesn't have a great reputation after their recent owner-imposed lockout. But I'm trying to keep an open mind, trying to see the long game with this minor-league restructuring. My nostalgia for the independent NY-Penn league (and others like it), and the teams and markets lost is balanced with a tentative, cautious hopefulness for the next generation of ball-players.
Two takes on the restructure, one year later:
ESPN
WaPo
posted by Theophrastus Johnson at 6:21 AM on April 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
To me, that's the real story: MLB did a huge flex in restructuring the minor leagues in 2020, hamstringing independent leagues, and codifying team affiliations moving forward.
The negative effect on independent leagues -- such as the now-dissolved New York-Penn League, which supplied my youthful upstate NY evenings with soda, popcorn, and quality baseball (...and later I played a slick centerfield in a couple of their parks in high school #humblebrag) -- is hard to understate.
Having a trial ground for playing rules is one, conspicuous advantage for the new system. But addressing the less-than-living-wages for minor league players is a potential upside to the restructuring.
It's been a year since this huge organizational shift. MLB & the ownership (rightfully) doesn't have a great reputation after their recent owner-imposed lockout. But I'm trying to keep an open mind, trying to see the long game with this minor-league restructuring. My nostalgia for the independent NY-Penn league (and others like it), and the teams and markets lost is balanced with a tentative, cautious hopefulness for the next generation of ball-players.
Two takes on the restructure, one year later:
ESPN
WaPo
posted by Theophrastus Johnson at 6:21 AM on April 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
BTW if you are an NYC MeFite and you like to go to Brooklyn Cyclones games, MeMail me or set up an IRL event and maybe we can go together sometime!
posted by brainwane at 6:28 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 6:28 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
The larger bases were tested in the minors last year. Aren't they in the majors this year?
I have zero problem with limiting the shift. I have zero problem with a pitch clock. I have zero problem with limiting pickoffs. I find it truly weird when people oppose these changes in the name of "traditionalism" when the changes in how the shift had been used, how long pitchers take between pitches, how many pickoff attempts there are, etc. are just a few of the many ways game play now is slower, less exciting, and less interesting than traditional baseball.
Crying out loud, the average age of a Major League Baseball fan is 57 fucking years old. Do not waste energy worrying about what the dwindling supply of cranky old people still loyal to this dying sport say they want to see. Make the game faster and increase the number of balls in play. No one will remember any of these rule changes in 36 months anyway.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:31 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
I have zero problem with limiting the shift. I have zero problem with a pitch clock. I have zero problem with limiting pickoffs. I find it truly weird when people oppose these changes in the name of "traditionalism" when the changes in how the shift had been used, how long pitchers take between pitches, how many pickoff attempts there are, etc. are just a few of the many ways game play now is slower, less exciting, and less interesting than traditional baseball.
Crying out loud, the average age of a Major League Baseball fan is 57 fucking years old. Do not waste energy worrying about what the dwindling supply of cranky old people still loyal to this dying sport say they want to see. Make the game faster and increase the number of balls in play. No one will remember any of these rule changes in 36 months anyway.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:31 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
The pitch timer is the single best thing they could do for pace of play, way better than the stupid "automatic intentional walk" thing they introduced last time.
But if you really want to improve the game, make some changes that reduce strikeouts, like reducing the strike zone or at least calling it properly. In the immortal words of Crash Davis, "Strikeouts are boring, besides that they're fascist. Throw more ground balls, it’s more democratic."
(non-FB link for the FB-averse, but with ads.)
While we're at it, home runs are boring and fascist too. The iconic Orioles Park at Camden Yards, one of the most homer-friendly parks in the game, is moving its left-field fence back ~25 feet. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
posted by martin q blank at 6:32 AM on April 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
But if you really want to improve the game, make some changes that reduce strikeouts, like reducing the strike zone or at least calling it properly. In the immortal words of Crash Davis, "Strikeouts are boring, besides that they're fascist. Throw more ground balls, it’s more democratic."
(non-FB link for the FB-averse, but with ads.)
While we're at it, home runs are boring and fascist too. The iconic Orioles Park at Camden Yards, one of the most homer-friendly parks in the game, is moving its left-field fence back ~25 feet. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
posted by martin q blank at 6:32 AM on April 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
iow, what Dirty Old Town said.
Also, missed the edit window, but here's a better story on the changes at Camden Yards and what they might mean. Apologies for the semi-derail.
posted by martin q blank at 6:40 AM on April 6, 2022
Also, missed the edit window, but here's a better story on the changes at Camden Yards and what they might mean. Apologies for the semi-derail.
posted by martin q blank at 6:40 AM on April 6, 2022
Still no multi-ball?
Pass.
Imagine an NFL where endzones had different distances from the 50-yard-line depending on the city, or an NBA where the baskets were just a few inches different height on every court.
That actually sounds awesome. Like every kid who ever toured the old Boston Garden, I knew that the NHL rink was notably shorter than a standard rink and that the basketball court was the only one with a parquet floor which had lots of dead spots where the ball would bounce in ways the other team couldn't predict.
Every team's home turf should be slightly different to either optimize offense or defense. As long as everyone is playing roughly the same number of games home and away, it should all average out in the end.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:46 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
Pass.
Imagine an NFL where endzones had different distances from the 50-yard-line depending on the city, or an NBA where the baskets were just a few inches different height on every court.
That actually sounds awesome. Like every kid who ever toured the old Boston Garden, I knew that the NHL rink was notably shorter than a standard rink and that the basketball court was the only one with a parquet floor which had lots of dead spots where the ball would bounce in ways the other team couldn't predict.
Every team's home turf should be slightly different to either optimize offense or defense. As long as everyone is playing roughly the same number of games home and away, it should all average out in the end.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:46 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
And if an NFL team wants to place one endzone in the satellite parking lot a mile from the stadium....well, both teams periodically switch sides during the game, don't they?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:53 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:53 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm all for this. Hell, I think they should really experiment. Go nuts. Try Banana Ball. People seem to like it.
posted by nushustu at 6:53 AM on April 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by nushustu at 6:53 AM on April 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
The reality is that the rules are going to have to change to create a more watchable product because the players have changed physically, strategies have changed to exploit that, and the result is a game that takes longer, has fewer balls in play, and is generally less interesting.
I saw Mike Schmidt (who yes, was a great player) complaining that "in his day" they knew how to hit against the shift. Mike, in your day the shift meant the shortstop sliding slightly right of second base, not the third baseman standing in shallow right field, or the first baseman playing between the mound and home plate, or two outfielders and five infielders, or five guys lined up between first and second.
And while we are at it, in your day the average fastball was 88.2 mph. It's 93.7 now. Dudes who can throw 95 were terrifying to you and your peers and now every AAA team has three of them that can't crack the bigs because dudes throw 104 now.
You were considered a big dude because you were 6-2, 195. You'd look like a boy standing between Aaron Judge and Giancarlo Stanton.
The game is different. Dudes are huge, stronger. The fastballs are faster, the exit velocities are harder. But the rules are the exact same. And so, teams are built to look for walks, home runs, and strikeouts. It's the most efficient way to play within the current rules. But it's boring. And so the rules need to change. They change regularly in the other major sports. It's just baseball that gets all weird and reactionary about these things.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:03 AM on April 6, 2022 [38 favorites]
I saw Mike Schmidt (who yes, was a great player) complaining that "in his day" they knew how to hit against the shift. Mike, in your day the shift meant the shortstop sliding slightly right of second base, not the third baseman standing in shallow right field, or the first baseman playing between the mound and home plate, or two outfielders and five infielders, or five guys lined up between first and second.
And while we are at it, in your day the average fastball was 88.2 mph. It's 93.7 now. Dudes who can throw 95 were terrifying to you and your peers and now every AAA team has three of them that can't crack the bigs because dudes throw 104 now.
You were considered a big dude because you were 6-2, 195. You'd look like a boy standing between Aaron Judge and Giancarlo Stanton.
The game is different. Dudes are huge, stronger. The fastballs are faster, the exit velocities are harder. But the rules are the exact same. And so, teams are built to look for walks, home runs, and strikeouts. It's the most efficient way to play within the current rules. But it's boring. And so the rules need to change. They change regularly in the other major sports. It's just baseball that gets all weird and reactionary about these things.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:03 AM on April 6, 2022 [38 favorites]
The only thing that would make MLB more interesting would be relegation. Seems like half of the owners are only in it for the revenue sharing and barely field winning teams at all.
posted by hwyengr at 7:08 AM on April 6, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by hwyengr at 7:08 AM on April 6, 2022 [17 favorites]
I'm all for this. Hell, I think they should really experiment. Go nuts. Try Banana Ball. People seem to like it.
Fuck it, let's go full CalvinBall.
posted by briank at 7:10 AM on April 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
Fuck it, let's go full CalvinBall.
posted by briank at 7:10 AM on April 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
What baseball really needs is perplexing VAR breaks, where everyone stands around looking confused.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:13 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:13 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
I am going to truly start some shit now by dropping this fucking grenade: I like the extra innings ghost runner.
I said what I said.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:18 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
I said what I said.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:18 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Totally agree with DirtyOldTown. As a child in the late 80s, early 90s, i absolutely loved baseball, and I think b/c there were a number of ways teams could win, and season narratives were fun. You had the Cardinals, a defense pitching, no hitting dynasty; you had the Oakland A's Bash Brothers; the Mets with all their flashy players, the 1989 Cubs with a young, surprising squad that lucked into a division title. Then it got pretty exciting during the juicing era b/c it was like a softball league 10-8 sort of games for a decade... but now...
Today, its all the same. Every team follows the same play strategy (obviously to better and worse outcomes) of homeruns, strikeouts, walks. So, so boring. Really, I went from being a dyed-in-the-wool baseball fan to... I'll go to a game if someone buys me a ticket?
posted by RajahKing at 7:18 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Today, its all the same. Every team follows the same play strategy (obviously to better and worse outcomes) of homeruns, strikeouts, walks. So, so boring. Really, I went from being a dyed-in-the-wool baseball fan to... I'll go to a game if someone buys me a ticket?
posted by RajahKing at 7:18 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Putting in a rule to take away the shift is a sad choice. If the shift is working statistically (and it must be since basically everyone does it now), it seems like the one thing that might organically change the homeruns/strikeout/walk strategy (agreed, so so boring). Like, if the entire left side of the field is open to a left-handed hitter, how hard would it be to teach slap hitting (or pushing bunts down the 3rd base line)? It's an instant double!
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:26 AM on April 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:26 AM on April 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
I can't remember which player I saw who said "If hitting one the other way when the shift was on was that easy, don't you think we would do that? Do you think we are all choosing not to succeed that way or do you think maybe it's just not that easy to shift mechanics on a dime?"
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:29 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:29 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
I can't remember which player I saw who said "If hitting one the other way when the shift was on was that easy, don't you think we would do that? Do you think we are all choosing not to succeed that way or do you think maybe it's just not that easy to shift mechanics on a dime?"
Well, isn't that why they're professional athletes?
Pitch timer, absolutely a good idea. But ultimately I wonder if the problem in the U.S. is that it's the only one of the major leagues where players bashing into each other isn't a routine occurrence.
posted by praemunire at 7:34 AM on April 6, 2022
Well, isn't that why they're professional athletes?
Pitch timer, absolutely a good idea. But ultimately I wonder if the problem in the U.S. is that it's the only one of the major leagues where players bashing into each other isn't a routine occurrence.
posted by praemunire at 7:34 AM on April 6, 2022
Crying out loud, the average age of a Major League Baseball fan is 57 fucking years old.New 57-year-olds come along all the time. I distinctly remember a TV news story in the 1980s on baseball lamenting that its fans were mostly older, that maybe the new generation wasn't as interested and that this could cause problems for baseball. That would have been ~35 years ago, when today's 57-year-old fan would have been in his early 20s.
posted by Hatashran at 7:39 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Everyone is bringing bias here and somewhat contradictory. Either it is all the same and every team is using the same strategy or a few teams dominate the league ... which is it?! Also what sport league do the owners not take their own financial interest above others?
I think baseball is the perfect Covid sport. I can be on my laptop, keep a 3 hour+ game on television, mute it to watch a YouTube video and not miss any major action. Sit back and smoke some weed or have a beer, even mow the lawn and listen to it on the radio, come back and it is still on! There's also games all summer so it isn't like it destroys a Sunday every fall afternoon like football.
I don't really mind changes to the game, people hated the 3 point line in basketball and look we use the darn thing all the time. I have no specific input into the changes, now excuse me why I watch Mr. Baseball.
posted by geoff. at 7:42 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think baseball is the perfect Covid sport. I can be on my laptop, keep a 3 hour+ game on television, mute it to watch a YouTube video and not miss any major action. Sit back and smoke some weed or have a beer, even mow the lawn and listen to it on the radio, come back and it is still on! There's also games all summer so it isn't like it destroys a Sunday every fall afternoon like football.
I don't really mind changes to the game, people hated the 3 point line in basketball and look we use the darn thing all the time. I have no specific input into the changes, now excuse me why I watch Mr. Baseball.
posted by geoff. at 7:42 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
I'm with geoff., I only started watching games as I approach a half century and my partner loves a game, so it's a way to sit with her and baseball is basically the chill genre of sports
baseball: (97%) none of this matters and (1-3 %) hey Bichette hit a homer
posted by elkevelvet at 7:46 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
baseball: (97%) none of this matters and (1-3 %) hey Bichette hit a homer
posted by elkevelvet at 7:46 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't really follow baseball as much as I used to, but I hate the banning of the shift.
It’s basically telling the defense to play poorly because the hitters are unwilling to adjust. It’s horrible and does nothing for the majors biggest problem according to Major League Baseball: the games are too long for TV
The pitch timer is the single best thing they could do for pace of play, way better than the stupid "automatic intentional walk" thing they introduced last time.
I hate the automatic intentional walk with a burning passion. About 1% of the time the intentional walk would go horribly wrong. We no longer get that bit of chaos.
posted by jmauro at 7:47 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
It’s basically telling the defense to play poorly because the hitters are unwilling to adjust. It’s horrible and does nothing for the majors biggest problem according to Major League Baseball: the games are too long for TV
The pitch timer is the single best thing they could do for pace of play, way better than the stupid "automatic intentional walk" thing they introduced last time.
I hate the automatic intentional walk with a burning passion. About 1% of the time the intentional walk would go horribly wrong. We no longer get that bit of chaos.
posted by jmauro at 7:47 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Baseball was made for radio
Football was made for TV
CalvinBall is made for the Internet
(by made for, I mean the leagues optimized for the format, not that baseball was invented after radio).
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:05 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Football was made for TV
CalvinBall is made for the Internet
(by made for, I mean the leagues optimized for the format, not that baseball was invented after radio).
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:05 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Three pitchers and three batters at once. Five bases. If any pitch leaves a smoking hole in a catcher's glove, pitching team automatically wins. Pitchers may take a nap on the mound at any time. Players get an extra point for their teams if they smooch on the kiss cam. Two points for tongue.
posted by phooky at 8:07 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by phooky at 8:07 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Personally, as a person who knows very, very little about baseball, if I was in charge of baseball, I would change the walk to a double rather than making it faster. You want to skip a batter, you give him two bases. Otherwise, pitch to everyone. Intentional walking is unsportsmanlike bullshit.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:07 AM on April 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 8:07 AM on April 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
The Atlantic League is testing some rule variations, including the opportunity to steal first base.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:10 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:10 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
It would be good if a city could make a ballpark that wasn't designed to look like pre-Civil Rights Era construction.
I mean I like throw-back, too. But let's build a new era for baseball before pickleball destroys everything American.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 8:14 AM on April 6, 2022
I mean I like throw-back, too. But let's build a new era for baseball before pickleball destroys everything American.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 8:14 AM on April 6, 2022
PitchCom being allowed has thrown me a bit. These kids and their texting, can't even use good old-fashioned hand signals anymore like God intended.
posted by Think_Long at 8:25 AM on April 6, 2022
posted by Think_Long at 8:25 AM on April 6, 2022
On the subject of MLB rules changes, I think if we're going to universal designated hitter, we should require the designated hitter to wear the mascot uniform.
(I'm all for rules changes, change is good, gives us something to bitch about over beers between innings. But yeah, maybe also we work on improving conditions for minor leaguers.)
posted by the primroses were over at 8:28 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
(I'm all for rules changes, change is good, gives us something to bitch about over beers between innings. But yeah, maybe also we work on improving conditions for minor leaguers.)
posted by the primroses were over at 8:28 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Meanwhile, baseball is the only sport I can think of where the arena, i.e. the baseball field, does not have a standardized size. Do any two outfields match in MLB?
No, and it's a wonderful thing. Teams are built around their parks and it means that you can have two very successful teams that are structured to execute completely different strategies on the field.
I'm a big baseball fan. I'm a fan of the pitch clock. I think banning the shift is a bit ridiculous. The positions that infielders put themselves today became convention because they were optimized to align to where the ball was hit. If batters learn to adjust to the shift it will go away. But I'm intrigued by rules that will hopefully move us away from hyper efficient three true outcomes baseball and encourage base stealing and other plays like that.
But here's something MLB really needs to fix: if you're a Canadian baseball fan in Vancouver, you can't watch the Blue Jays on MLB.TV because it's blacked out. Baseball's local blackouts are completely out of hand. I can't remember but I think there's some parts of the US were as many as 5 or 6 teams are blacked out.
posted by synecdoche at 8:36 AM on April 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
No, and it's a wonderful thing. Teams are built around their parks and it means that you can have two very successful teams that are structured to execute completely different strategies on the field.
I'm a big baseball fan. I'm a fan of the pitch clock. I think banning the shift is a bit ridiculous. The positions that infielders put themselves today became convention because they were optimized to align to where the ball was hit. If batters learn to adjust to the shift it will go away. But I'm intrigued by rules that will hopefully move us away from hyper efficient three true outcomes baseball and encourage base stealing and other plays like that.
But here's something MLB really needs to fix: if you're a Canadian baseball fan in Vancouver, you can't watch the Blue Jays on MLB.TV because it's blacked out. Baseball's local blackouts are completely out of hand. I can't remember but I think there's some parts of the US were as many as 5 or 6 teams are blacked out.
posted by synecdoche at 8:36 AM on April 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
Figure out a way to make scoring like tennis or volleyball - you try to win a set number of innings, like 4/7. Tie innings are a push. Some kind of sudden death at a certain point. Sending your enemy home in four would be a kickass way to win. (I know, it's complicated. Say you're up 3-0, but after just one tie inning, your opponent can't win. Maybe then revert to total runs scored? Okay, fine, it's too fussy, but I still like the concept. And I do love that in tennis and volleyball, you have to score the last point to win - no running out the clock or defensive stands nonsense.)
posted by Caxton1476 at 8:38 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Caxton1476 at 8:38 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've only gone to one major league baseball game in person. It was interesting as a one-off but the main focus of most of the crowd was drinking (regardless of how crazy the beer prices were) since there really wasn't much to watch on the field most of the time. I'd never seen that number of people get absolutely shit-canned in one place before; I'd like to think that many took the bus home but the parking lots were full.
I doubt they are going to reverse their relevance decline by making small rule tweaks, but good for them if they are able to pull it off.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:43 AM on April 6, 2022
I doubt they are going to reverse their relevance decline by making small rule tweaks, but good for them if they are able to pull it off.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:43 AM on April 6, 2022
But the rules are the exact same. And so, teams are built to look for walks, home runs, and strikeouts. It's the most efficient way to play within the current rules. But it's boring. And so the rules need to change.
Banning the shift actually incentivizes this approach to batting, especially for LH power hitters. The shift was a response to this all-in dead pull swing for the fences style of batting, not a cause of it.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 8:48 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Banning the shift actually incentivizes this approach to batting, especially for LH power hitters. The shift was a response to this all-in dead pull swing for the fences style of batting, not a cause of it.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 8:48 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I too love nonstandard outfields. Back in the old Busch Stadium, we called left field Death Valley because it's where home runs went to die. It was always fun to watch a "small park" team like Atlanta come to town and just fall apart hitting long outs over and over. Forced them to play a close baserunning game instead. And good for Atlanta too, their playstyle was more belting long ones while at home and shutting down opposing teams with brutal pitching. It works both ways and is good for team identity.
Part of the excitement of a roadtrip was seeing how teams would alter things like infield grass height against a team that hit a lot of groundballs. Parks shouldn't be too sterile.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:51 AM on April 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
Part of the excitement of a roadtrip was seeing how teams would alter things like infield grass height against a team that hit a lot of groundballs. Parks shouldn't be too sterile.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:51 AM on April 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
But here's something MLB really needs to fix: if you're a Canadian baseball fan in Vancouver, you can't watch the Blue Jays on MLB.TV because it's blacked out.
As a fellow Canadian baseball fan, we've been forced into a choice where we can spend $120 a year to watch just the Blue Jays or spend $150 a year to watch everyone BUT the Blue Jays. I suppose they thought people would spend $270 to watch both the Blue Jays and everyone else but now I just find pirate streams for a game I want to watch and pay them $0.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 8:51 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
As a fellow Canadian baseball fan, we've been forced into a choice where we can spend $120 a year to watch just the Blue Jays or spend $150 a year to watch everyone BUT the Blue Jays. I suppose they thought people would spend $270 to watch both the Blue Jays and everyone else but now I just find pirate streams for a game I want to watch and pay them $0.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 8:51 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
I can't remember but I think there's some parts of the US were as many as 5 or 6 teams are blacked out.
The whole state of Iowa is one of these. Blocked from the Cubs, Cards, W. Sox, Brewers, Royals, and Twins.
posted by hwyengr at 8:52 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
The whole state of Iowa is one of these. Blocked from the Cubs, Cards, W. Sox, Brewers, Royals, and Twins.
posted by hwyengr at 8:52 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
On top of the pitch clock, I'd love to see a rule that says the batter can only leave the batter's box if they swung at a pitch. No more never taking the bat off your shoulder, then retreating 5 steps to adjust your gloves, adjust your cup, adjust your gloves again, take two practice swings, then step back in the box.
And banning the shift feels like it would result in more hits and therefore lengthen the game, not speed it up.
But the biggest change I want to see is robot umps for the strike zone.
posted by thecjm at 8:53 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
And banning the shift feels like it would result in more hits and therefore lengthen the game, not speed it up.
But the biggest change I want to see is robot umps for the strike zone.
posted by thecjm at 8:53 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
a "small park" team like Atlanta
FYI the old Fulton County Stadium had average dimensions. Atlanta always seemed to be a setting for home runs because until the Rockies showed up, Atlanta had the highest elevation of any MLB team.
posted by thecjm at 8:58 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
FYI the old Fulton County Stadium had average dimensions. Atlanta always seemed to be a setting for home runs because until the Rockies showed up, Atlanta had the highest elevation of any MLB team.
posted by thecjm at 8:58 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
WAIT... there's a rule in MLB where the pitcher can just choose to walk a batter? Without intentionally throwing balls?
I'm so out of it. I grew up in the '80s and my brother was a baseball freak, so I absorbed a lot of info on the sport via osmosis and it being the only thing on TV a lot of time in the summer. SInce the Cubs have turned into a powerful fundraising arm of the GOP, I haven't watched a game in years.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:59 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm so out of it. I grew up in the '80s and my brother was a baseball freak, so I absorbed a lot of info on the sport via osmosis and it being the only thing on TV a lot of time in the summer. SInce the Cubs have turned into a powerful fundraising arm of the GOP, I haven't watched a game in years.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:59 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Per the 2nd link: there will be an automated system to call some balls and strikes this season in the minor leagues:
AUTOMATED BALL-STRIKE ("ABS"): In select games in Triple-A and in the Low-A Southeast, ABS technology will be used to call balls and strikes. ABS was used in the Atlantic League in 2019, and in select games in the Low-A Southeast and Arizona Fall League in 2021.Also: From the 1st link, tested in 2021: a timer to "enforce time limits between delivery of pitches, inning breaks and pitching changes". The version of that timer that's going into minor league games this season:
PITCH TIMER: On-field timers will be used at all full-season affiliates to enforce regulations designed to create a crisp pace of play, with batters required to be ready to hit and pitchers required to deliver the pitch within allotted periods of time. With runners on base, pitchers will have additional allotted time for each pitch but will risk automatic baserunner advancement if a third pick-off attempt or step-off within the same plate appearance is made without recording an out. These rules were used in tandem in the Low-A West and in the Arizona Fall League in 2021 and led to a significant improvement in pace of play and a reduction in average game time of more than 20 minutes.posted by brainwane at 9:01 AM on April 6, 2022
Anything that helps kills "three true outcomes" ball is welcome to me.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:02 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:02 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Meanwhile, baseball is the only sport I can think of where the arena, i.e. the baseball field, does not have a standardized size.
Also hockey, golf and cricket.
posted by donpardo at 9:10 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Also hockey, golf and cricket.
posted by donpardo at 9:10 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
baseball is the only sport I can think of where the arena, i.e. the baseball field, does not have a standardized size.
In addition to association football as noted, other sports that spring readily to mind are Aussie rules, rugby union and league, gaelic football and hurling, cricket, water polo, and bandy.
Of course, for ball sports with a highly-variable playing area, the canonical example is golf.
posted by 7segment at 9:11 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
In addition to association football as noted, other sports that spring readily to mind are Aussie rules, rugby union and league, gaelic football and hurling, cricket, water polo, and bandy.
Of course, for ball sports with a highly-variable playing area, the canonical example is golf.
posted by 7segment at 9:11 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
By the way - anyone know where I can read the actual canonical wording of these new experimental rules? MLB Official Information links to this PDF of the official 2021 rules labelled "OFFICIAL BASEBALL RULES 2021 Edition" but I cannot scrounge up the 2022 edition or an official "change rule number x to read as follows" document. (Clearly I am hankering for some Weird Rules-style extrapolation.)
posted by brainwane at 9:12 AM on April 6, 2022
posted by brainwane at 9:12 AM on April 6, 2022
The really interesting thing if MLB limits the shift (which cannot happen until 2023 under the new CBA) may be extremely fast guys who pick up a bunch of value. Tommy Edman of the St. Louis Cardinals hit seventy points higher last year when there was no shift. We could see some real Willie Wilson type slap hitters come out of nowhere.
I have no idea why a person would prefer third basemen positioned in shallow right field over 80's style running game baseball.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:18 AM on April 6, 2022
I have no idea why a person would prefer third basemen positioned in shallow right field over 80's style running game baseball.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:18 AM on April 6, 2022
Keep the game as is. Players adapt. The shift has been around for 100+ years. I am close to the average age fan mentioned above, but I would add that two of my three children are huge baseball fans including my daughter. I did have the pleasure of growing up a Yankees fan and going to Yankee Stadium then moving to Chicago and spending many an afternoon in the Wrigley bleachers as a 20 something yo. I have been to Fenway, but not often. I think it really depends on your home team and home stadium as to how you view baseball. No offense to the cities that had the round stadiums with the artificial turf (Three Rivers, Busch, etc) but if I had those stadiums as my home field I would be clamoring for change too.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:20 AM on April 6, 2022
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:20 AM on April 6, 2022
Baseball is wild because people will agree to watch a completely different game to the one they grew up with rather than support rule changes, because they are "traditionalists."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:32 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:32 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
who yes, was a great player
But not as good as second-base player What.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:32 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
But not as good as second-base player What.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:32 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
FYI, Star Trek has the last World Series game taking place in 2042. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:36 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:36 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
The average age of a MLB fan/viewer is 57 years old. I think the slow pace of games is a barrier for younger fans. It needs a update.
posted by ShakeyJake at 9:36 AM on April 6, 2022
posted by ShakeyJake at 9:36 AM on April 6, 2022
I think the slow pace of games is a barrier for younger fans. It needs a update.
No. It's the children who are wrong.
(In all seriousness, though, I like the slow pace of baseball a lot. I'm not near that average age yet and I have an eight-year-old who loves baseball--the first thing he does each morning is watch game recaps on MLB.TV--but I don't think the answer to everything is to cater people who want it faster harder louder. If that means the sport contracts a bit I'm completely okay with that. I like slow-paced leisurely things and I would like a world with room for them even if means it doesn't play well on Tik Tok or whatever.)
posted by synecdoche at 9:43 AM on April 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
No. It's the children who are wrong.
(In all seriousness, though, I like the slow pace of baseball a lot. I'm not near that average age yet and I have an eight-year-old who loves baseball--the first thing he does each morning is watch game recaps on MLB.TV--but I don't think the answer to everything is to cater people who want it faster harder louder. If that means the sport contracts a bit I'm completely okay with that. I like slow-paced leisurely things and I would like a world with room for them even if means it doesn't play well on Tik Tok or whatever.)
posted by synecdoche at 9:43 AM on April 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
I presume minor league games - since they're so much cheaper - have an in-person fan base that includes a lot more kids and parents of young children? The Cyclones have a lot of kid-oriented promotions such as, this year, "a Peppa Pig Appearance, the return of Mo Willems Day, Sponge Bob SquarePants Day and a special pre-game concert from Koo Koo Kangaroo" and a lot of "kids run the bases post-game" opportunities which they do regularly.
One of this year's minor league promotions:
One of this year's minor league promotions:
Speaking of American experiences like no other -- the past couple of years have been challenging, to say the least. We all need a safe space in which to expunge our pent-up feelings, and that's where the Triple-A Jacksonville Jumbo Shrimp come in. June 24 is "Cathartic Scream Night," which proves that the best ideas are often the simplest. "Right before the seventh-inning stretch, the entire stadium will join in for one giant, cathartic scream!" the team explains. "Tonight is the night you can let it all out." Brilliant and necessary.posted by brainwane at 9:45 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
With Bally Sports buying up and pricing out most streaming services, MLB is almost impossible to follow (legally (or with any quality)) without attending in-person with price-gouged tickets (not to mention the time sink, pandemic risk, etc, etc).
Some light reading:
* https://reflectionsonbaseball.com/mlb-on-the-insidious-takeover-by-bally-sports-and-gambling-interests/
* https://www.redlegnation.com/2021/04/12/why-is-it-so-difficult-to-watch-major-league-baseball-games/
* https://www.reddit.com/r/mlb/comments/mky4if/baseballs_true_cause_of_death_viewership_access/
* And just, all of this: https://www.google.com/search?q=ballysports+ruining+baseball+site:www.reddit.com
TLDR; MLB has far bigger problems than the pace of play and... surprise, it's tied to greedy corporations squeezing every drop of blood from the remaining fans.
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 9:48 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
Some light reading:
* https://reflectionsonbaseball.com/mlb-on-the-insidious-takeover-by-bally-sports-and-gambling-interests/
* https://www.redlegnation.com/2021/04/12/why-is-it-so-difficult-to-watch-major-league-baseball-games/
* https://www.reddit.com/r/mlb/comments/mky4if/baseballs_true_cause_of_death_viewership_access/
* And just, all of this: https://www.google.com/search?q=ballysports+ruining+baseball+site:www.reddit.com
TLDR; MLB has far bigger problems than the pace of play and... surprise, it's tied to greedy corporations squeezing every drop of blood from the remaining fans.
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 9:48 AM on April 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
Takes some doing, but if you get MLB.tv and a VPN, it's pretty easy to see any game. I follow the Cubs so if I want to see them play Atlanta, I set my VPN to say I am in, say, NYC. Playing the Mets? I say I am in KC. Just pick a city outside of either team's lockout area and never get blacked out.
I do not disagree that this should not be necessary though. But it does work.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:52 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
I do not disagree that this should not be necessary though. But it does work.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:52 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
> But it does work.
Last I heard/tried, the streaming quality was very poor and since we consume media through a gaming console, I'd probably have to setup the VPN on the network layer, which is another hassle. Maybe I'll give it another shot, though. Thanks!
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 10:06 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Last I heard/tried, the streaming quality was very poor and since we consume media through a gaming console, I'd probably have to setup the VPN on the network layer, which is another hassle. Maybe I'll give it another shot, though. Thanks!
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 10:06 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have very fast fiber internet and a PC hooked directly to the TV for this setup, FWIW.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:19 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:19 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
The problem with baseball catching on with The Kids These Days seems to me to be a problem not of pace but of little action on the base paths and a lack of tension in the game. There are enormous swaths of actual playing time (where at least two players are engaged in actual game-related activity- pitching, hitting, etc) WHERE NOTHING HAPPENS in terms of players moving around the field. Baseball is so enamored of the Pitcher Duel/Home Run Derby approach to the game that they have robbed the game of vitality. So if I ran the zoo, this is how I would fix baseball.
1. Everybody hits, including the pitcher
2. When batting, teams will also have a Designated Hitter and a Designated Runner* in the batting order. There will be no corresponding defensive positions for the DH and DR. *(The DR will automatically take second base when their turn in the batting order comes up. If second base is already occupied, the runner already there will advance to third and if third is also occupied, that runner will advance to home plate and score a run. Any runs that are scored as a result of the DR's turn in the line up-including when/if the DR scores a run themselves do NOT count as earned runs against a pitcher)
3. Instead of 3 strikes/4 balls, make it 4 strikes/3 balls. This will encourage pitchers to throw pitches that put the ball in play. There's 9 fielders on defense- trust them a little more to catch flyballs and make put-outs.
4.Don't ban the Shift but limit the amount that players can move when the shift is on- Infielders must remain on the infield and can move no further than halfway between the corners and second for third and first basemen, and the shortstop and second baseman can move no further than second base. Right and left fielders can move no further then dead center field and center fielders can move no further than halfway between dead center field and the foul lines. Hitters should have to learn how to adjust to hit to that tempting empty field the defense gives them when they employ the shift. If the hitter can't do that, their team deserves the out for having such a limited player in the line up.
posted by KingEdRa at 10:41 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
1. Everybody hits, including the pitcher
2. When batting, teams will also have a Designated Hitter and a Designated Runner* in the batting order. There will be no corresponding defensive positions for the DH and DR. *(The DR will automatically take second base when their turn in the batting order comes up. If second base is already occupied, the runner already there will advance to third and if third is also occupied, that runner will advance to home plate and score a run. Any runs that are scored as a result of the DR's turn in the line up-including when/if the DR scores a run themselves do NOT count as earned runs against a pitcher)
3. Instead of 3 strikes/4 balls, make it 4 strikes/3 balls. This will encourage pitchers to throw pitches that put the ball in play. There's 9 fielders on defense- trust them a little more to catch flyballs and make put-outs.
4.Don't ban the Shift but limit the amount that players can move when the shift is on- Infielders must remain on the infield and can move no further than halfway between the corners and second for third and first basemen, and the shortstop and second baseman can move no further than second base. Right and left fielders can move no further then dead center field and center fielders can move no further than halfway between dead center field and the foul lines. Hitters should have to learn how to adjust to hit to that tempting empty field the defense gives them when they employ the shift. If the hitter can't do that, their team deserves the out for having such a limited player in the line up.
posted by KingEdRa at 10:41 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Along with the changes, which I hope will come to MLB next year (especially banning the shift), I would also like to make the batter stand in the box once the at bat starts. They can only get out if they ask for and are granted a time. That would speed up the game as much as instituting a pitch clock.
I have a partial season ticket and go to about 13-15 games a year. Watching the game on TV is SO different. When you are at the ballpark, the time passes differently. But when you watch on TV, it is such a boring experience now. The amount of ad time between innings, the number of pitching changes that add to ad time, the three true outcome nature of the game itself which is boring as hell on TV as there is so much lesser amount of balls put into play, etc. Baseball needs to change and the rule changes are a good start.
About the shift, I come to it from my Cricket fandom. I hated the idea of field placement restrictions in limited over cricket when it was introduced. But it has led to more exciting games. I believe the same will happen in Baseball.
posted by indianbadger1 at 10:47 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have a partial season ticket and go to about 13-15 games a year. Watching the game on TV is SO different. When you are at the ballpark, the time passes differently. But when you watch on TV, it is such a boring experience now. The amount of ad time between innings, the number of pitching changes that add to ad time, the three true outcome nature of the game itself which is boring as hell on TV as there is so much lesser amount of balls put into play, etc. Baseball needs to change and the rule changes are a good start.
About the shift, I come to it from my Cricket fandom. I hated the idea of field placement restrictions in limited over cricket when it was introduced. But it has led to more exciting games. I believe the same will happen in Baseball.
posted by indianbadger1 at 10:47 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I wonder if the problem in the U.S. is that it's the only one of the major leagues where players bashing into each other isn't a routine occurrence.
Baseball used to have more collisions, especially at second and home, but MLB clamped down on collisions, IMO in an overreaction to some serious but rare injuries.
I hate the automatic intentional walk with a burning passion.
Professional baseball pitchers should be able to pitch four balls to a catcher in regular catcher position. Either do that, or just point to first and let the batter walk there immediately. (And why is the catcher allowed to be out of position?)
The average age of a MLB fan/viewer is 57 years old. I think the slow pace of games is a barrier for younger fans. It needs a update.
I'm 57 and a casual baseball fan. I enjoy going to a game, but I'm usually bored after about 4/5 innings because it's boring unless there's a lot of baserunning and scoring.
Everybody hits, including the pitcher
Totally agree. I realize pitchers are specialized and the designated hitter lets older players prolong their careers. Babe Ruth was a very good pitcher and excellent hitter.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:56 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Baseball used to have more collisions, especially at second and home, but MLB clamped down on collisions, IMO in an overreaction to some serious but rare injuries.
I hate the automatic intentional walk with a burning passion.
Professional baseball pitchers should be able to pitch four balls to a catcher in regular catcher position. Either do that, or just point to first and let the batter walk there immediately. (And why is the catcher allowed to be out of position?)
The average age of a MLB fan/viewer is 57 years old. I think the slow pace of games is a barrier for younger fans. It needs a update.
I'm 57 and a casual baseball fan. I enjoy going to a game, but I'm usually bored after about 4/5 innings because it's boring unless there's a lot of baserunning and scoring.
Everybody hits, including the pitcher
Totally agree. I realize pitchers are specialized and the designated hitter lets older players prolong their careers. Babe Ruth was a very good pitcher and excellent hitter.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:56 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
It was way late to get rid of pitchers hitting. They're awful. They slow the game down. And at the higher velocities pitchers have now, they are more injury prone. No good reason to risk their health so they can bat .080.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:58 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:58 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'll never understand why they made it easier to issue intentional walks. The whole point of a professional sporting competition is to see the best athletes matched against each other. So why let them bypass the most important aspect of the contest altogether?
Much of the time, even the home team fans boo when their pitcher intentionally walks a great batter from the other side. Fans want to see these matchups forgodsakes...
If I was king, I'd ban intentional walks altogether (e.g., the catcher can't stand up and hold his arm out to the side.) If you don't want to try to throw a strike, go ahead and throw balls somewhere in the neighborhood of the plate and force the catcher to catch them like any other pitch. If the umpire determines the pitching team blatantly violated these rules, the runner goes to second base.
posted by mikeand1 at 11:00 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Much of the time, even the home team fans boo when their pitcher intentionally walks a great batter from the other side. Fans want to see these matchups forgodsakes...
If I was king, I'd ban intentional walks altogether (e.g., the catcher can't stand up and hold his arm out to the side.) If you don't want to try to throw a strike, go ahead and throw balls somewhere in the neighborhood of the plate and force the catcher to catch them like any other pitch. If the umpire determines the pitching team blatantly violated these rules, the runner goes to second base.
posted by mikeand1 at 11:00 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Last week the St. Louis Cardinals beat the Washington Nationals 29-8 (sounds more like a football score) in a spring training game.
When I saw that the Cardinals only scored 29 runs on 26 hits my first thought was "small ball," and I was not wrong.
The Cardinals start batting in the top of the 8th, leading 13-4.
⚾ RBI double
⚾ RBI single
⚾ RBI single
⚾ RBI infield single
⚾ RBI double
⚾ RBI single
⚾ Hit by pitch with the bases loaded
⚾ RBI single
⚾ Walk with the bases loaded
⚾ RBI single
⚾ And then things got embarrassing for the Nationals. Groundout to fielder's choice, run scored on error, runner on first reached second on error. Yes, all on the same play.
⚾ RBI sacrifice fly
⚾ And then the play-by-play just says "Donovan scored." Mercy rule?
Seven Cardinals players each scored two runs in the inning.
Cardinals lead, 28-4.
Spring training is for learning. And the Nationals learned what it feels like to get their asses kicked.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:04 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
When I saw that the Cardinals only scored 29 runs on 26 hits my first thought was "small ball," and I was not wrong.
The Cardinals start batting in the top of the 8th, leading 13-4.
⚾ RBI double
⚾ RBI single
⚾ RBI single
⚾ RBI infield single
⚾ RBI double
⚾ RBI single
⚾ Hit by pitch with the bases loaded
⚾ RBI single
⚾ Walk with the bases loaded
⚾ RBI single
⚾ And then things got embarrassing for the Nationals. Groundout to fielder's choice, run scored on error, runner on first reached second on error. Yes, all on the same play.
⚾ RBI sacrifice fly
⚾ And then the play-by-play just says "Donovan scored." Mercy rule?
Seven Cardinals players each scored two runs in the inning.
Cardinals lead, 28-4.
Spring training is for learning. And the Nationals learned what it feels like to get their asses kicked.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:04 AM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
I used to be a traditionalist when it came to rule changes, but over time, my outrage evaporated.
All I want to do is lie in the tub with the game on the radio and listen to the cadence of the announcers, not even really paying attention to what's actually going on. My investment in the actual game or the season is negligible compared to the pleasures of the ritual itself, which is where my traditionalism settled. Oh, my Pirates are still losing? Seems right. Carry on.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:06 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
All I want to do is lie in the tub with the game on the radio and listen to the cadence of the announcers, not even really paying attention to what's actually going on. My investment in the actual game or the season is negligible compared to the pleasures of the ritual itself, which is where my traditionalism settled. Oh, my Pirates are still losing? Seems right. Carry on.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:06 AM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Intentional walking is unsportsmanlike bullshit.
You could say the same thing about chess players intentionally sacrificing their own pawns.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:22 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
You could say the same thing about chess players intentionally sacrificing their own pawns.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:22 AM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
The whole point of a professional sporting competition is to see the best athletes matched against each other. So why let them bypass the most important aspect of the contest altogether?
There should be an old-timey way to resolve this. Like maybe the pitcher has to shake hands and ask the batter if they want to be walked. If the batter agrees, they take their base. If the batter disagrees the pitcher has to pitch. If the pitcher persists in throwing balls, the batter--as jacquilynne suggested--should get two bases.
Intentionally walking someone should be like the "Run away" command in JRPGs. Sometimes it works and sometimes you're stuck fighting the monster.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:24 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
There should be an old-timey way to resolve this. Like maybe the pitcher has to shake hands and ask the batter if they want to be walked. If the batter agrees, they take their base. If the batter disagrees the pitcher has to pitch. If the pitcher persists in throwing balls, the batter--as jacquilynne suggested--should get two bases.
Intentionally walking someone should be like the "Run away" command in JRPGs. Sometimes it works and sometimes you're stuck fighting the monster.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:24 AM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Chess players intentionally sacrificing their own pawns is unsportsmanlike bullshit.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:44 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:44 AM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
The rule used to be if a walk was issued (intentional or not), every baserunner advanced, forced or not. Bringing that back might cut down on walks.
posted by Ampersand692 at 11:55 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Ampersand692 at 11:55 AM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
The problem with all runners advance on a walk rule is that the umpiring of balls and strikes is still very subjective. The umpire can have an even greater impact on the outcome when the goal should be to eliminate the umpires influence on the outcome. That is not to say I favor the robo ump calling balls and strikes, I like that each umpire has their own strike zone, but blown calls should not change the outcome.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:08 PM on April 6, 2022
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:08 PM on April 6, 2022
All I want to do is lie in the tub with the game on the radio and listen to the cadence of the announcers, not even really paying attention to what's actually going on.
Sounds like Northwoods Baseball Sleep Radio is for you.
posted by clawsoon at 12:28 PM on April 6, 2022 [14 favorites]
Sounds like Northwoods Baseball Sleep Radio is for you.
posted by clawsoon at 12:28 PM on April 6, 2022 [14 favorites]
Part of the excitement of a roadtrip was seeing how teams would alter things like infield grass height against a team that hit a lot of groundballs.
I appreciate the real love people have for this game, but gods this is funny to those of us who would literally flip a coin over watching a ball game vs. the grass grow
posted by elkevelvet at 12:30 PM on April 6, 2022
I appreciate the real love people have for this game, but gods this is funny to those of us who would literally flip a coin over watching a ball game vs. the grass grow
posted by elkevelvet at 12:30 PM on April 6, 2022
Chess players intentionally sacrificing their own pawns is unsportsmanlike bullshit.
Perhaps chess would have more viewers if, instead of commentators trying to make it exciting all the time by exploring all the possibilities, they hired some baseball announcers who know how to fill the space with laid-back ASMR nothing-much.
posted by clawsoon at 12:50 PM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Perhaps chess would have more viewers if, instead of commentators trying to make it exciting all the time by exploring all the possibilities, they hired some baseball announcers who know how to fill the space with laid-back ASMR nothing-much.
posted by clawsoon at 12:50 PM on April 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
The rule used to be if a walk was issued (intentional or not), every baserunner advanced, forced or not. Bringing that back might cut down on walks.
Assuming you are talking about MLB, I do not think this is true. According to Wikipedia, this was considered but rejected in favor of making the catcher stay in his box until the ball left the pitcher's hand.
(And why is the catcher allowed to be out of position?)
This is not the case. See above.
(Pedantic arguments are part of baseball. See also "Can a player cause a balk by having one foot out of bounds when the pitcher releases the ball.")
posted by donpardo at 1:37 PM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Assuming you are talking about MLB, I do not think this is true. According to Wikipedia, this was considered but rejected in favor of making the catcher stay in his box until the ball left the pitcher's hand.
(And why is the catcher allowed to be out of position?)
This is not the case. See above.
(Pedantic arguments are part of baseball. See also "Can a player cause a balk by having one foot out of bounds when the pitcher releases the ball.")
posted by donpardo at 1:37 PM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am going to truly start some shit now by dropping this fucking grenade: I like the extra innings ghost runner.
I said what I said.
posted by DirtyOldTown
Reported.
/only half kidding
posted by oflinkey at 2:12 PM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I said what I said.
posted by DirtyOldTown
Reported.
/only half kidding
posted by oflinkey at 2:12 PM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
(And why is the catcher allowed to be out of position?)
This is not the case. See above.
Two examples. The catcher in both cases is standing up before the pitch, then steps outside the box after the pitcher tosses the ball. My opinion is that the standing up is out of position, and a professional pitcher should be able to throw balls to the catcher in the catcher's normal squatting position.
(The first example is an intentional walk to Barry Bonds with the bases loaded, which happened on several occasions. The second is the zany result of an errant throw by the pitcher. Whose name is Balfour, which is a bit on the nose.)
posted by kirkaracha at 2:36 PM on April 6, 2022
This is not the case. See above.
Two examples. The catcher in both cases is standing up before the pitch, then steps outside the box after the pitcher tosses the ball. My opinion is that the standing up is out of position, and a professional pitcher should be able to throw balls to the catcher in the catcher's normal squatting position.
(The first example is an intentional walk to Barry Bonds with the bases loaded, which happened on several occasions. The second is the zany result of an errant throw by the pitcher. Whose name is Balfour, which is a bit on the nose.)
posted by kirkaracha at 2:36 PM on April 6, 2022
My opinion is that the standing up is out of position
MLB makes no ruling about the stance of any position player, as long as they are where they are supposed to be. For all position players other than the catcher, that means they are standing in fair territory when the ball is thrown.
I would be thrilled to be wrong about this, because it would make a great trivia question.
posted by donpardo at 2:44 PM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
MLB makes no ruling about the stance of any position player, as long as they are where they are supposed to be. For all position players other than the catcher, that means they are standing in fair territory when the ball is thrown.
I would be thrilled to be wrong about this, because it would make a great trivia question.
posted by donpardo at 2:44 PM on April 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
I like that each umpire has their own strike zone, but blown calls should not change the outcome.
I can begrudgingly accept individual strike zones as long as they're (a) reasonably close to the rules, (b) consistent from team to team, and (c) consistent throughout the game.
But I was scarred by NLCS Game 5 in 1987, when Eric Gregg, "a wide man who had a wide strike zone," consistently called strikes--for the Marlins--than were a foot outside. (And, this being the internet, there's a breakdown with GIFs of Gregg's strike zone.)
posted by kirkaracha at 2:50 PM on April 6, 2022
I can begrudgingly accept individual strike zones as long as they're (a) reasonably close to the rules, (b) consistent from team to team, and (c) consistent throughout the game.
But I was scarred by NLCS Game 5 in 1987, when Eric Gregg, "a wide man who had a wide strike zone," consistently called strikes--for the Marlins--than were a foot outside. (And, this being the internet, there's a breakdown with GIFs of Gregg's strike zone.)
posted by kirkaracha at 2:50 PM on April 6, 2022
MLB makes no ruling about the stance of any position player,
Sure, hence "my opinion." I'm allowed to think the rules (or lack of them) is dumb.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:52 PM on April 6, 2022
Sure, hence "my opinion." I'm allowed to think the rules (or lack of them) is dumb.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:52 PM on April 6, 2022
The average age of a MLB fan/viewer is 57 years old.
Yeah, but how old were they at the start of the game?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:38 PM on April 6, 2022 [19 favorites]
Yeah, but how old were they at the start of the game?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:38 PM on April 6, 2022 [19 favorites]
Yeah, but how old were they at the start of the game?
Why does baseball get all sorts of flack for being slow when the NFL is literally five seconds of play followed by many minutes of people just walking around regrouping for the next play? In some respects, aren't NFL games even more boring than baseball?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:38 PM on April 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
Why does baseball get all sorts of flack for being slow when the NFL is literally five seconds of play followed by many minutes of people just walking around regrouping for the next play? In some respects, aren't NFL games even more boring than baseball?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:38 PM on April 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
In some respects, aren't NFL games even more boring than baseball?
They certainly are to me, but to each their own.
With that said, I think that a lot of the clamouring for changes to speed up the game are coming from people for whom no amount of change will actually be satisfying. Baseball's never going to be basketball or hockey, at least if you want to leave the game being something that is recognizably baseball. If people don't like baseball, that's fine. I don't like football. I also don't go around making a lot of suggestions on how to make football more like baseball in the name of helping it appeal to non-football fans and somehow "save" the sport.
When I look at rule changes, there are some that I am totally fine with because they're still within the realm of baseball. Making the pitcher deliver the ball without taking several minutes between pitches? Totally fine. Stopping batters from stepping out of the box between each pitch to take some more practice swings and adjust various gloves and straps and things? I'm good with that, too. Banning the shift? Eh, you're getting a little further away but I can tolerate it. Ghost runners, further away till.
But when you get to stuff like multi-ball or sudden death home run derbies, I mean, maybe baseball's just not the sport for you. And that's totally fine!
posted by synecdoche at 4:45 PM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
They certainly are to me, but to each their own.
With that said, I think that a lot of the clamouring for changes to speed up the game are coming from people for whom no amount of change will actually be satisfying. Baseball's never going to be basketball or hockey, at least if you want to leave the game being something that is recognizably baseball. If people don't like baseball, that's fine. I don't like football. I also don't go around making a lot of suggestions on how to make football more like baseball in the name of helping it appeal to non-football fans and somehow "save" the sport.
When I look at rule changes, there are some that I am totally fine with because they're still within the realm of baseball. Making the pitcher deliver the ball without taking several minutes between pitches? Totally fine. Stopping batters from stepping out of the box between each pitch to take some more practice swings and adjust various gloves and straps and things? I'm good with that, too. Banning the shift? Eh, you're getting a little further away but I can tolerate it. Ghost runners, further away till.
But when you get to stuff like multi-ball or sudden death home run derbies, I mean, maybe baseball's just not the sport for you. And that's totally fine!
posted by synecdoche at 4:45 PM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Great quote from MLB special rules consultant Theo Epstein on the coming shift rules: “I think fans prefer a game to be won or lost by whether a second baseman can range all the way up in the middle and make that diving play and throw the runner out at first base, versus ‘did my team have the proper algorithm to perfectly position that third infielder on the right side and so that ball was hit right at him and we got the out that way.’”
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:55 PM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:55 PM on April 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Why does baseball get all sorts of flack for being slow when the NFL is literally five seconds of play followed by many minutes of people just walking around
I believe it is because in televised football those breaks are when they show replays. Nothing will happen until the teams get into formation. You can't show as many replays and show all that analysis in baseball because the ball is almost always live and something might happen. The exception to this is when an umpire's call is appealed to the booth.
Baseball only looks like nothing is happening. It's a game of tension and balance. Small things can lead to other small things that can lead to a run. The players are constantly looking for the tiniest of edges.
Also, football involves violent clashes on every play.
posted by donpardo at 5:36 PM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
I believe it is because in televised football those breaks are when they show replays. Nothing will happen until the teams get into formation. You can't show as many replays and show all that analysis in baseball because the ball is almost always live and something might happen. The exception to this is when an umpire's call is appealed to the booth.
Baseball only looks like nothing is happening. It's a game of tension and balance. Small things can lead to other small things that can lead to a run. The players are constantly looking for the tiniest of edges.
Also, football involves violent clashes on every play.
posted by donpardo at 5:36 PM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
George Will is a terrible person but his description of football as "Committee meetings interrupted by violence" is so spot-on, it hurts.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:43 PM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:43 PM on April 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Yes, let a hundred weird rules bloom! The thing that's should never be forgotten about baseball is that is an intrinsically artificial sport. Everything about it is arbitrary. All sports have this, but baseball is one of a class that seem completely made up.
But, because it seems made up, it makes sense to invent new weird rules! Every player should have an Assist Dog! Players should have to wear beanie copters, and if another player should knock theirs off, they must go back, pick it up, and put it back on! The defending team should have a fake baseball that can be put into play through sleight-of-hand, to keep the runners guessing as to which is the real ball! When there is only a runner on first, they must call out "Uno!" And so on.
posted by JHarris at 6:02 PM on April 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
But, because it seems made up, it makes sense to invent new weird rules! Every player should have an Assist Dog! Players should have to wear beanie copters, and if another player should knock theirs off, they must go back, pick it up, and put it back on! The defending team should have a fake baseball that can be put into play through sleight-of-hand, to keep the runners guessing as to which is the real ball! When there is only a runner on first, they must call out "Uno!" And so on.
posted by JHarris at 6:02 PM on April 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
George Will is a terrible person but his description of football as "Committee meetings interrupted by violence" is so spot-on, it hurts.
No mention of George Will in a sports context can go without a link to the Sports Machine
posted by hwyengr at 6:14 PM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
No mention of George Will in a sports context can go without a link to the Sports Machine
posted by hwyengr at 6:14 PM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
There's nothing wrong with baseball that couldn't be solved by the simple application of time machines.
It's not that the individual games are too long or slow (although that certainly can be the case). It's that there are approximately 5000 games per team per season, each one of which is potentially long and slow. Who the hell has time to pay attention? Not me.
And I actually love baseball. I hate all of the changes they are screwing around with. They will fundamentally change the game in a way that will make the game faster and flashier... and still somehow less intetesting than a longer, slower game.
Buy I get it. I do. I used to follow one team (the Mariners) as much as possible when they were building their first team of actual contenders. Hell, I flew across the country one summer to watch them play in Cleveland, New York, and Boston. But as soon as they lost their mojo again, I dropped them like an infield fly ball.
I don't have that kind of time in my life.
But I wish I did.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:22 PM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's not that the individual games are too long or slow (although that certainly can be the case). It's that there are approximately 5000 games per team per season, each one of which is potentially long and slow. Who the hell has time to pay attention? Not me.
And I actually love baseball. I hate all of the changes they are screwing around with. They will fundamentally change the game in a way that will make the game faster and flashier... and still somehow less intetesting than a longer, slower game.
Buy I get it. I do. I used to follow one team (the Mariners) as much as possible when they were building their first team of actual contenders. Hell, I flew across the country one summer to watch them play in Cleveland, New York, and Boston. But as soon as they lost their mojo again, I dropped them like an infield fly ball.
I don't have that kind of time in my life.
But I wish I did.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:22 PM on April 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I love baseball metafilter.
I don’t have a problem with pace if it’s not a home run derby. People watch cars zip in circles for hours to find 10 seconds of excitement. Golf is similar. I am good with that if yields great radio, which baseball certainly does. I am also either watching a game in person or enjoying on the radio. As has been said upthread, it is a great companion.
Get rid of intentional walks, or have the batter and runners all advance to whatever the furthest base series is, third if solo, second and third if any base is occupied, etc. Oh and if you are caught cheating your team is gone, relegated to the minors for a year at their (hopefully improved) pay. Serious about these.
Not serious but would slap: toss a coin before the game. Winner calls the inning where both sides play Chicago style softball, a ginormous cushy ball where no gloves are used. Let’s see some stars get that bad boy out of the infield.
posted by drowsy at 5:42 AM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don’t have a problem with pace if it’s not a home run derby. People watch cars zip in circles for hours to find 10 seconds of excitement. Golf is similar. I am good with that if yields great radio, which baseball certainly does. I am also either watching a game in person or enjoying on the radio. As has been said upthread, it is a great companion.
Get rid of intentional walks, or have the batter and runners all advance to whatever the furthest base series is, third if solo, second and third if any base is occupied, etc. Oh and if you are caught cheating your team is gone, relegated to the minors for a year at their (hopefully improved) pay. Serious about these.
Not serious but would slap: toss a coin before the game. Winner calls the inning where both sides play Chicago style softball, a ginormous cushy ball where no gloves are used. Let’s see some stars get that bad boy out of the infield.
posted by drowsy at 5:42 AM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
The defending team should have a fake baseball that can be put into play through sleight-of-hand, to keep the runners guessing as to which is the real ball!
Um....
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:18 AM on April 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Um....
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:18 AM on April 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
NFL is literally five seconds of play followed by many minutes of people just walking around regrouping for the next play?
The NFL playclock is 40 seconds, which is shortened to speed up play from its inception.
The NBA shotclock is 24 seconds, also has been shortened to speed up play. The NCAA shotclock is 30 seconds.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on April 7, 2022
The NFL playclock is 40 seconds, which is shortened to speed up play from its inception.
The NBA shotclock is 24 seconds, also has been shortened to speed up play. The NCAA shotclock is 30 seconds.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on April 7, 2022
That's awesome. More potato plays please.
I'm all for baseball being plausibly deniable Calvinball. If there's no specific rule against it, and it puts smiles on people's faces, why not? Life's too short.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:28 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm all for baseball being plausibly deniable Calvinball. If there's no specific rule against it, and it puts smiles on people's faces, why not? Life's too short.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:28 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
The NFL playclock is 40 seconds, which is shortened to speed up play from its inception.
I've seen too many episodes of Futurama entirely preempted by games that had less than a minute left on the clock and didn't finish for another half hour to believe that time in an NFL game is anywhere close to reality.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:31 AM on April 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
I've seen too many episodes of Futurama entirely preempted by games that had less than a minute left on the clock and didn't finish for another half hour to believe that time in an NFL game is anywhere close to reality.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:31 AM on April 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think that introducing relegation and promotion to baseball would improve the competition level across the board. No more lollygagging small market teams just going through the motions.
posted by schyler523 at 8:34 AM on April 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by schyler523 at 8:34 AM on April 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I've seen too many episodes of Futurama entirely preempted by games that had less than a minute left on the clock and didn't finish for another half hour to believe that time in an NFL game is anywhere close to reality.
I actually agree with this - they have a refereeing committee that exists just to manage timeouts and remaining playtime in both the NFL and NBA, and they scrutinize miliseconds in the last minute of the game. And in the NBA, the rules on ball placement change when there is little time left on the game clock - they change the rules to amplify the potential for exciting plays to happen.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:39 AM on April 7, 2022
I actually agree with this - they have a refereeing committee that exists just to manage timeouts and remaining playtime in both the NFL and NBA, and they scrutinize miliseconds in the last minute of the game. And in the NBA, the rules on ball placement change when there is little time left on the game clock - they change the rules to amplify the potential for exciting plays to happen.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:39 AM on April 7, 2022
“I think fans prefer a game to be won or lost by whether a second baseman can range all the way up in the middle and make that diving play and throw the runner out at first base, versus ‘did my team have the proper algorithm to perfectly position that third infielder on the right side and so that ball was hit right at him and we got the out that way.’”
I would say most fans appreciate those kind of defensive plays, but his use of "algorithm" in this context is somewhat disingenuous. Players routinely stand in a spot where a line drive finds them without the fielder having to move an inch in any direction. Is this strategy or luck? Probably a bit of both. Does the league intend to dictate which pitch a pitcher must throw if there are two out with runners on first and third in the bottom of the ninth inning during a night game in Los Angeles? I think fans would prefer the game end on a walk-off than a strikeout.
posted by MorgansAmoebas at 9:07 AM on April 7, 2022
I would say most fans appreciate those kind of defensive plays, but his use of "algorithm" in this context is somewhat disingenuous. Players routinely stand in a spot where a line drive finds them without the fielder having to move an inch in any direction. Is this strategy or luck? Probably a bit of both. Does the league intend to dictate which pitch a pitcher must throw if there are two out with runners on first and third in the bottom of the ninth inning during a night game in Los Angeles? I think fans would prefer the game end on a walk-off than a strikeout.
posted by MorgansAmoebas at 9:07 AM on April 7, 2022
Why does baseball get all sorts of flack for being slow when the NFL is literally five seconds of play followed by many minutes of people just walking around
Both baseball and football are more interesting to watch the more you know about the sport and can be boring to the casual observer.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:09 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Both baseball and football are more interesting to watch the more you know about the sport and can be boring to the casual observer.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:09 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Football feels faster because in three hours, you can see a game that represents 6% of the entire season. When you give a baseball game three hours, you are in the eighth inning of a game that represents 0.6% of the season.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:37 AM on April 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:37 AM on April 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
You could say the same thing about chess players intentionally sacrificing their own pawns.
Nobody watches chess because it's exciting to watch the physical act of someone picking up a piece and replacing it with another piece on the board. Also, in a sacrifice in chess, nothing forces the opposing player to accept it. (I realize there are probably a very small number of times when such a move is forced, but not often.)
posted by mikeand1 at 1:24 PM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Nobody watches chess because it's exciting to watch the physical act of someone picking up a piece and replacing it with another piece on the board. Also, in a sacrifice in chess, nothing forces the opposing player to accept it. (I realize there are probably a very small number of times when such a move is forced, but not often.)
posted by mikeand1 at 1:24 PM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Nobody watches chess because it's exciting to watch the physical act of someone picking up a piece and replacing it with another piece on the board.
That's because everyone watches chess for the car crashes.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:39 PM on April 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
That's because everyone watches chess for the car crashes.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:39 PM on April 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Football feels faster because in three hours, you can see a game that represents 6% of the entire season. When you give a baseball game three hours, you are in the eighth inning of a game that represents 0.6% of the season.
Also, with football there's a much greater chance of seeing somebody get maimed, or maybe paralyzed or possibly even killed right there on the field.
I kid – a little – but don't underestimate the role that sheer, (barely) sublimated bloodlust has in the gridiron game's popularity. The cynic in me even suspects that as knowledge of CTE grows more widespread, the perverse appeal will only increase for the viewer watching from the comfort of home.
posted by non canadian guy at 8:49 PM on April 7, 2022
Also, with football there's a much greater chance of seeing somebody get maimed, or maybe paralyzed or possibly even killed right there on the field.
I kid – a little – but don't underestimate the role that sheer, (barely) sublimated bloodlust has in the gridiron game's popularity. The cynic in me even suspects that as knowledge of CTE grows more widespread, the perverse appeal will only increase for the viewer watching from the comfort of home.
posted by non canadian guy at 8:49 PM on April 7, 2022
One of my cranky-old-man theories is that an unacknowledged factor in baseball's decline in popularity is the fact that it's the perfect radio sport – indeed, a sport that plays much better on radio than on TV – and people don't really listen to games on radio the way that they used to.
They don't need to, for one thing; every team puts pretty much its full schedule on the tube now, which wasn't the case even when I was growing up in the '80s. That means fans, or would-be fans, never cultivate the habit of taking in the game through the word pictures of a Scully, a Harwell, a Gowdy, a Buck, a Kalas et al. (It's no accident that all baseball's most celebrated voices were radio guys.) Instead they're beholding it via a medium that the game doesn't translate to all that well, especially in the 30 or so years since NBC's Harry Coyle retired and the prevailing ethos has become to fill the screen with endless closeups and cutaways to individual players, and a nonstop barrage of onscreen graphics, so you're never entirely sure what's going on in the game at a given moment.
But also, the radio broadcasts themselves aren't what they used to be. It's not just that the Scullys and Harwells and Bucks and Kalases are all either retired or dead, although that obviously doesn't help. But the actual nature of the broadcasts has changed. It used to be your play-by-play guy would work alone, or mostly alone, and tell the game's story to you the listener. But here too the TV influence has taken over, so now even on radio that play-by-play guy is saddled with a color analyst (or two, or three), and there's too much ceaseless chatter about the last at-bat, or potential front-office moves, or in-game conversations with the manager, or whatever getting in the way of the picture-painting. It's no longer about bringing you the game in progress, but conducting a talk show over crowd noise. We even had the situation last year of one team (the Blue Jays) trying to enhance the bottom line by ditching a dedicated radio crew entirely and just simulcasting the TV audio, an "innovation" which worked exactly as well as you'd expect it to, and which I have no doubt other teams will get the bright idea of trying to implement.
Harrumph.
posted by non canadian guy at 9:06 PM on April 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
They don't need to, for one thing; every team puts pretty much its full schedule on the tube now, which wasn't the case even when I was growing up in the '80s. That means fans, or would-be fans, never cultivate the habit of taking in the game through the word pictures of a Scully, a Harwell, a Gowdy, a Buck, a Kalas et al. (It's no accident that all baseball's most celebrated voices were radio guys.) Instead they're beholding it via a medium that the game doesn't translate to all that well, especially in the 30 or so years since NBC's Harry Coyle retired and the prevailing ethos has become to fill the screen with endless closeups and cutaways to individual players, and a nonstop barrage of onscreen graphics, so you're never entirely sure what's going on in the game at a given moment.
But also, the radio broadcasts themselves aren't what they used to be. It's not just that the Scullys and Harwells and Bucks and Kalases are all either retired or dead, although that obviously doesn't help. But the actual nature of the broadcasts has changed. It used to be your play-by-play guy would work alone, or mostly alone, and tell the game's story to you the listener. But here too the TV influence has taken over, so now even on radio that play-by-play guy is saddled with a color analyst (or two, or three), and there's too much ceaseless chatter about the last at-bat, or potential front-office moves, or in-game conversations with the manager, or whatever getting in the way of the picture-painting. It's no longer about bringing you the game in progress, but conducting a talk show over crowd noise. We even had the situation last year of one team (the Blue Jays) trying to enhance the bottom line by ditching a dedicated radio crew entirely and just simulcasting the TV audio, an "innovation" which worked exactly as well as you'd expect it to, and which I have no doubt other teams will get the bright idea of trying to implement.
Harrumph.
posted by non canadian guy at 9:06 PM on April 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ok TIL that now the national league has designated hitters! While yes, I agree that pitchers generally suck at hitting, I really liked the quirkiness of the two leagues having different rules.
And while my team was American League, and so it was rare to see our pitchers at bat, it was always fun watching them play NL teams and seeing what our pitchers can do. Or the pride that comes from knowing your pitcher doesnt suck at hitting.
Baseball is a slow sport. I love it, and I tell everyone, most people don't watch baseball for the baseball, its to do other things while baseball is going on in the background, even at the games. I love the quirkiness of the rules, trick plays that come along. I think thats the great thing about baseball, is that I can take my friends who arent super into it and they still have a good time because its not necessary to pay attention, but every once in a while you get something exciting!
Agreed with the hate on the automatic walk. I guess they're trying to do that to save time, but I think its better to just make the automatic walk more risky, by sending the batter to second base as suggested above.
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:54 AM on April 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
And while my team was American League, and so it was rare to see our pitchers at bat, it was always fun watching them play NL teams and seeing what our pitchers can do. Or the pride that comes from knowing your pitcher doesnt suck at hitting.
Baseball is a slow sport. I love it, and I tell everyone, most people don't watch baseball for the baseball, its to do other things while baseball is going on in the background, even at the games. I love the quirkiness of the rules, trick plays that come along. I think thats the great thing about baseball, is that I can take my friends who arent super into it and they still have a good time because its not necessary to pay attention, but every once in a while you get something exciting!
Agreed with the hate on the automatic walk. I guess they're trying to do that to save time, but I think its better to just make the automatic walk more risky, by sending the batter to second base as suggested above.
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:54 AM on April 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
If there's no specific rule against it, and it puts smiles on people's faces, why not?
This is how you get Air Bud. Do you really want Air Bud?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:24 AM on April 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is how you get Air Bud. Do you really want Air Bud?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:24 AM on April 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
While yes, I agree that pitchers generally suck at hitting, I really liked the quirkiness of the two leagues having different rules.
This is basically where I'm at. IMO there are lots of rule changes that really ought to be tested long-term in one league or the other. Why even have two separate leagues otherwise?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:54 AM on April 8, 2022
This is basically where I'm at. IMO there are lots of rule changes that really ought to be tested long-term in one league or the other. Why even have two separate leagues otherwise?
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:54 AM on April 8, 2022
Why even have two separate leagues otherwise?
Really, the two “leagues” have been conferences in all but name since the 2000 consolidation.
posted by non canadian guy at 11:04 AM on April 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Really, the two “leagues” have been conferences in all but name since the 2000 consolidation.
posted by non canadian guy at 11:04 AM on April 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm a very casual baseball fan, and I firmly believe that pitchers should bat.
Also, aluminum bats are an insidious plot to ruin college baseball.
posted by wintermind at 9:07 PM on April 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also, aluminum bats are an insidious plot to ruin college baseball.
posted by wintermind at 9:07 PM on April 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I was watching an unrelated sport on ESPN+ today and when the match ended we wound up clicking over to bananaball.
First time I'd seen it. It seemed to include a lot of the changes that people are suggesting above. I might be the biggest opponent of the DH rule on this entire website but that whole combination seemed to really just work and if that's where the sport ends up in ten years I don't think I'd be mad.
posted by 7segment at 8:50 PM on April 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
First time I'd seen it. It seemed to include a lot of the changes that people are suggesting above. I might be the biggest opponent of the DH rule on this entire website but that whole combination seemed to really just work and if that's where the sport ends up in ten years I don't think I'd be mad.
posted by 7segment at 8:50 PM on April 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is how you get Air Bud. Do you really want Air Bud?
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say emphatically yes.
posted by Dysk at 7:17 AM on April 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say emphatically yes.
posted by Dysk at 7:17 AM on April 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
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posted by MorgansAmoebas at 5:25 AM on April 6, 2022 [23 favorites]