We're having special hotdish tonight

July 1, 2022 9:10 AM

The United States' 2018 Farm Bill legalized the production of hemp and the extraction of cannabidiol (CBD) from hemp. In May, the 9th Circuit ruled that other hemp-derived cannabinoids, like delta-8 THC, are also federally legal under the Farm Bill. In an effort to regulate the sale of intoxicating delta-8 products, the Minnesota legislature amended state law to limit the level of hemp-derived THC in products and, perhaps inadvertently, explicitly legalized hemp-derived delta-9 THC edible products in the state, beginning today.

Sen. Jim Abeler, R-Anoka, who chairs the Senate Human Services Reform Finance and Policy Committee, said he didn't realize the new law would legalize edibles containing delta-9 THC before it passed. He thought the law would only regulate delta-8 THC products.

"I thought we were doing a technical fix, and it winded up having a broader impact than I expected," Abeler said, adding that the Legislature should consider rolling the new law back.

House Democrats and Gov. Tim Walz, both of whom support recreational marijuana legalization, are unlikely to agree to such a request. Majority Leader Ryan Winkler, DFL-Golden Valley, called Abeler's suggestion to roll back the law "ridiculous" and said Democrats have no interest in doing so.

posted by uncleozzy (33 comments total)

It's unclear if leaders of the Republican-controlled Minnesota Senate fully realized the law would legalize delta-9 THC edibles before they agreed to pass it. Sen. Michelle Benson, R-Ham Lake, said she knew it would but "did not discuss that specifically" with Republican Senate Majority Leader Jeremy Miller, R-Winona.

That's kind of funny.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:23 AM on July 1, 2022 [5 favorites]

I have to say that was a genius post title that sucked me right in. Metafilter: came for the special hotdish; stayed for the high.
posted by liminal_shadows at 9:25 AM on July 1, 2022 [11 favorites]

"The law places no limit on how many CBD and THC products can be purchased and does not regulate who can sell them. It also allows the cannabis components to be infused into food and drinks."

Uh, wow!
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:39 AM on July 1, 2022 [3 favorites]

I was JUST thinking about writing up a FPP about this. After what seems like decades of foot-dragging, fake concern and outrage, and sneaky dirty tricks (marijuana legalization political parties who have in recent years become bogus, spoiler parties) mucking things up for legalization, it's hilarious to see the deadlock chipped away at by people in power... just not paying attention. I'm sure there'll be much more on this story in the near future.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to schlep on over to my local Love is an Ingredient store to see if there is a line, and if not I'll pop on in to see what's on the shelf. Maybe I'll have a nice Snicker Salad with a gummy on top for lunch!
posted by Gray Duck at 9:40 AM on July 1, 2022 [8 favorites]

posted by Gray Duck

eponysterical
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:43 AM on July 1, 2022 [9 favorites]

"The law places no limit on how many CBD and THC products can be purchased and does not regulate who can sell them. It also allows the cannabis components to be infused into food and drinks."

Uh, wow!

Oh yeah. People are already thinking about what this could mean. THC infused cold beverages at Twins games! Food trucks selling gummies with their gyros! Crazy canapes at Orchestra Hall! Church basement luncheons could be SO much more interesting, what DID Gladys put into those Swedish Meatballs??

I'm sure that there will be some backtracking and amending of the law, but for now it could be a strange new world for the North Star state.
posted by Gray Duck at 9:47 AM on July 1, 2022 [4 favorites]

My wife and I have joked repeatedly that she won't be able to handle our son learning to drive unless Minnesota legalizes weed by the time he's 16. He's 13 now, so... she should be fine?

I'm not seeing this explained anywhere, and I suspect I know the answer, but as a federal employee, what does the Minnesota ruling do for me? (My guess is my employer would not buy the "Look they told me it was hemp, not pot" argument...)
posted by caution live frogs at 9:48 AM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

@caution live frogs: As a former federal employee and current federal contractor who has counseled various friends and coworkers through the eQIP process: state laws do nothing to change the federal government's stance.

For example, the SF-85P section about "Illegal Use of Drugs and Drug Activity" says: "The following questions pertain to the illegal use of drugs or controlled substances or drug or controlled substance activity not in accordance with Federal laws, even though permissible under state laws."

So if you're going to need to fill that out again in the next seven years, I'd avoid the special hotdish.
posted by dreamyshade at 9:57 AM on July 1, 2022 [5 favorites]

I'm not seeing this explained anywhere, and I suspect I know the answer, but as a federal employee, what does the Minnesota ruling do for me?

In states where cannabis is fully legal, government employees are not permitted to break federal laws. Even if you are a state employee, or a municipal employee, the best case scenario is that they look the other way in a 'don't ask don't tell' kind of way. Federal level jobs, I'm sure, have much less tolerance or casually whistle and look the other way, like some states do.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:02 AM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

What I left unsaid in this post is that, given the text of the Farm Bill and especially following the 9th Circuit's ruling, it seems (as a non-law-talking guy) that all hemp-derived cannabinoids are federally legal, so long as the dry weight of the product is less than 0.3% Delta-9 THC. Lots of companies have been rolling with this assumption, and you can mail-order delta-9 edibles pretty much anywhere in the US right now.

Minnesota's regulation, in this case, is probably not the ideal way to do it, but I do think it's necessary to regulate this market. If they're not going to ban hemp-derived THC outright (and, to be clear, I don't think they should), they ought to do something to keep every gas station from selling 1000mg bags of "Soar Potch Kidz".
posted by uncleozzy at 10:14 AM on July 1, 2022 [3 favorites]

If they would quit screwing around and end the prohibition of cannabis, there would be no market for delta-8 products. It's greasy kid stuff and the only reason it sells is because people would rather not buy black market product.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 10:29 AM on July 1, 2022 [4 favorites]

Bon appétit, Minne-snow-ta.
posted by Bee'sWing at 11:16 AM on July 1, 2022

Church basement luncheons could be SO much more interesting...

Gonna really help the pull-tab sales, I bet.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:22 AM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

It's greasy kid stuff

In edible form, isn't THC just THC? What makes a hemp-derived THC product "greasy kid stuff" other than it being low-THC? If it's regulated to 5mg per serving, what's to stop someone from having enough servings to get the desired effect?
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:31 AM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

So the thing about MN is that we permanently have two legal weed parties on state ballots and they're almost always gop operatives running as spoilers. The state GOP is even more resistant than most places to prevent legal weed because of this fact.

Also Jeremy Miller is my state Senate rep and he can eat a steaming bowl of microwaved dog shit.
posted by Ferreous at 11:32 AM on July 1, 2022 [7 favorites]

I like hotdish and I like getting stoned but I just have to say that stoner hotdish sounds like a remarkably bad idea.

I don't think you really want to get stuck in a cycle of exponentially increasing munchies and a boss fight with a whole tray of hotdish.
posted by loquacious at 11:43 AM on July 1, 2022 [10 favorites]

The State Fair is less than two months away and the traditional brownie stand at the food building is going to undergo some changes. Don't even get me started contemplating the implications for the baking competition!
posted by Ber at 12:28 PM on July 1, 2022 [7 favorites]

The State Fair is less than two months away and the traditional brownie stand at the food building is going to undergo some changes

I always said I'd need to be high on something to go to the state fair again…
posted by nathan_teske at 12:57 PM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

"I thought we were doing a technical fix, and it winded up having a broader impact than I expected," Abeler said, adding that the Legislature should consider rolling the new law back.

So who was responsible for the snacks served at this legislative meeting?

It's not legal in my part of the world (Aus). Man, am I tired of listening to podcasts where this stuff is advertised like mattresses and car insurance. It's still jail time here! grumble grumble.

also I'd like to know how many big shot recruiters do so much hiring and firing they really need an app for that, who also have the downtime to idly listen to podcasts all day
posted by adept256 at 1:03 PM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

> In edible form, isn't THC just THC? What makes a hemp-derived THC product "greasy kid stuff" other than it being low-THC?

Hemp derived THC is chemically the same as any other THC, which is also known as Delta-9 THC. I think Aardvark Cheeselog was talking about Delta-8-THC, which is a similar-but-not-identical molecule that is manufactured to get around the federal prohibition of Delta-9 THC.
posted by maleficent at 1:35 PM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

The problem with Delta 8 or even Delta 9 products is that because of federal prohibition, there's no telling what's really in those products. Regulation is the Wild West for the US; the rule of thumb I would use for any product like that is find a producer that will have a COA (Certificate of Analysis) from an independent third party lab, and if they can't give you that, do not buy it.
posted by Kitteh at 1:42 PM on July 1, 2022 [5 favorites]

I would use for any product like that is find a producer that will have a COA (Certificate of Analysis) from an independent third party lab, and if they can't give you that, do not buy it.

I tried to get a COA for some flower from NY's medical cannabis program recently, and ... it's just not there? I think they make you jump through hoops to get them here, for some reason, which doesn't make any sense. This is a medical program! These products have to be tested. Why can't I just scan a QR code and get the COA?

On the other hand, the reputable hemp-derived delta-9 purveyors all have easily-available, legitimate COAs for every batch they run. I haven't tried them (yet) but there are definitely some brands who seem to be doing it the right way.
posted by uncleozzy at 2:06 PM on July 1, 2022

In Virginia, two new laws just went into effect today — THC edibles are no longer required to contain CBD as well, and possession of 4 oz up to a pound is now a misdemeanor. This is a change from last year's legalization of possession of an ounce, and decriminalization of possession of more than an ounce but less than a pound.

I think the 4-ounce thing will make it tricky if purchasing said CBD-less edibles.
posted by emelenjr at 3:17 PM on July 1, 2022

Rep. Omar has a little fun with the news.
posted by uncleozzy at 3:37 PM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

And this is why the late, great Dick Guindon's cartoon showing a bunch of clowns and doofuses wandering down the steps of the Minnesota State Capitol with the caption "Drive carefully. Your state legislature is out of session." is still as relevant as it was when he drew it, 40 or more years ago. (Warning: The cartoons in the obituary are very Minnesota-centric. Memail me if you need anything explained.)
posted by ALeaflikeStructure at 5:02 PM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

Can anyone explain Delta-8 and Delta-9 to me using terms that someone with no science background and very little knowledge about all this could understand? (When I look it up it's all either scare stories or someone trying to sell me something, and the linked Wikipedia article is more science-based than I want.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:44 PM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

Delta 9 is the type of THC that’s in the normal kind of cannabis flower that gets you high. Delta-8 is a similar psychoactive cannabinoid that’s also present in hemp / cannabis, usually in small quantities, and also gets you high, but somewhat less so.

Because of the way the Farm Bill was written, any product derived from hemp that includes less than 0.3% delta 9 THC by dry weight is legal. Savvy processors figured out how to turn hemp into something that could get you high — delta 8 — and stay within the bounds of the law.

What Minnesota did here was supposed to limit dosing of delta 8 products, but also included “any” cannabinoid derived from hemp. Well, you can also turn that CBD hemp into plain old delta 9, making edibles that are chemically and functionally indistinguishable from “normal” THC edibles.

If your edible weighs more than about 1.6g, you can legally deliver a standard 5mg dose of delta 9 THC while remaining compliant with MN law (and, arguably, federal law).
posted by uncleozzy at 6:09 PM on July 1, 2022 [5 favorites]

The cartoons in the obituary are very Minnesota-centric.

Guindon derail: Somewhere I have a clipped-out Guindon cartoon from 40 years ago of two guys standing, looking down into a bucket.

Caption: "Catchin the smelt is easy, it's namin em that's the hard part."


posted by gimonca at 7:13 PM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

I just want to sing the praises of Delta-8 (and the stronger THC-0) edibles for a moment. See, I was stone cold sober for over 10 years. I was completely done with booze, smoking weed, and every other intoxicant forever. But then, someone turned me on to the delta...

...I was on vacation, and decided to watch those two old Ewok movies on Disney Plus. I'd never really seen them, but since I'm a Star Wars fanatic I have to at some point, right? I was about halfway through the second one when I noticed that Wilford Brimley was walking... so slowly... so deliberately... as if through an ocean of syrup... and then I realized that it wasn't him, it was me. I had almost forgotten what it felt like to be high.

Since then, chilling and watching something cool on Delta has been my escape from the stresses of life. I seem to have a very low tolerance, so even half a gummy can blast me into hyperspace.

When I watched Shang-chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings sober, it seemed fairly unremarkable. But when deltaed? It was like a mystical experience.

Don't even get me started on The Rise of Skywalker. I love that movie already, but seeing it in the altered state... wow. Watching Rey ignite her golden lightsaber at the end becomes unfathomably cool and meaningful.

You know what I feel like watching? Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. I already know that's going to be a f****** blast.

ON DELTA.
posted by Chronorin at 5:48 AM on July 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

Yeah - as noted above there's "compliant" delta 9, which ... is nice and quasi-legal loophole. I half wonder if the MN people put it in there to make it more compliant. IDK if it's a greater, lesser or same% but due to the way the Farm Bill was written, so long as the source of delta 9 is hemp with the tiny amount of Delta9, and the gummies contain no more than the tiny percent you "can" have them. I get them iN WI, but frankly I'd rather proper fucking weed, thanks.

Still well played everyone.

I'm thinking we do this to legalize abortion everywhere, sneak it in - and say "Well you guys are idiots for not doing your job" and yay we win. (sigh if only).

Congrats MN.
posted by symbioid at 9:16 AM on July 2, 2022 [1 favorite]

I half wonder if the MN people put it in there to make it more compliant. [...] I get them iN WI, but frankly I'd rather proper fucking weed, thanks.

Yeah, the real issue here is that the Farm Bill essentially leaves all these "exotic" cannabinoids completely unregulated, so you have gas stations selling "D9" edibles and "D8" vape carts that contain who-knows-what at unknown potencies. Minnesota's law requires that all products be tested, which is a big, important step, if it's enforced.

I haven't tried the "legal" delta-9 products (although I did order some for shits and giggles, so we'll see once they arrive) but I'd absolutely rather have whole flower and products made from whole flower rather than distillates that have been manipulated by goobers looking to cash in on a legal gray area. I'll use tested dispensary edibles, but I still prefer to make my own. Whole flower has a totally different feeling.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:28 AM on July 2, 2022 [1 favorite]

And the buried lede here is that it seems like the prices on these edibles are still going to be off the charts compared to states with legal weed. Talking to someone who sells Delta stuff and they think the average cost for a 50mg edible pack is going to be 30+dollars. I just got a 10mg 10 piece pack in Colorado for 12 before tax. This is still cost prohibitive.
posted by Ferreous at 2:15 PM on July 3, 2022

I haven't tried the "legal" delta-9 products (although I did order some for shits and giggles, so we'll see once they arrive)

Update! I tried the 1:1 hemp-derived delta-9 gummies. Felt pretty much like any other 1:1 product, except that it arrived in my mailbox along with the water bill. Would recommend, but it's priced about like the NY medical market, which is outrageously expensive compared to recreational markets in most states.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:32 AM on July 11, 2022