Wakanda Forever!
July 23, 2022 7:31 PM Subscribe
Back in 2020, a decision was made to not recast the role of Black Panther, after the death of actor Chadwick Boseman, who portrayed the character in the self titled 2018 movie.
This choice winds up setting a somber, yet hopeful, tone over the first trailer for the sequel, Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
I still don't get how the heck they made this movie, what they are doing with this movie, or any of it. I have been confused the entire time on that topic and this trailer only made it worse when I heard the queen yell that her entire family was gone. Have they killed off Shuri for being politically awful IRL these days? What is going on?
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:33 PM on July 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:33 PM on July 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Well, we see Shuri elsewhere in the trailer, so the queen may believe that she's dead for dramatic purposes.
The likely villain is the Sub-Mariner, whose distinctive winged-ankle design is visible in one shot. He is not as hot as current Aquaman.
posted by praemunire at 9:47 PM on July 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
The likely villain is the Sub-Mariner, whose distinctive winged-ankle design is visible in one shot. He is not as hot as current Aquaman.
posted by praemunire at 9:47 PM on July 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Wakanda vs. Sub-Mariner and the Atlanteans? How exactly does that work, with MCU Wakanda being supposedly a land-locked country in the middle of Africa (with neighbors that include Uganda, South Sudan, Ethiopia, and Kenya. Are the Atlanteans tunneling through Africa with mole submarines?
A nerdy historian friend and I had a talk about how one (or more) of the Black Panthers should be a villain from a neighboring African country that has a Robin Hood-esque bone to pick over Wakanda not doing anything to help their neighbors.... that could be a Rwandan, South Sudanese/Darfur, Tigrayan, Eritrean, Ugandan (LRA or Idi Amin)... when you consider who Wakanda's neighbors, their neutrality is essentially complicity in multiple genocides, both imperial and post-colonial.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 9:55 PM on July 23, 2022 [23 favorites]
A nerdy historian friend and I had a talk about how one (or more) of the Black Panthers should be a villain from a neighboring African country that has a Robin Hood-esque bone to pick over Wakanda not doing anything to help their neighbors.... that could be a Rwandan, South Sudanese/Darfur, Tigrayan, Eritrean, Ugandan (LRA or Idi Amin)... when you consider who Wakanda's neighbors, their neutrality is essentially complicity in multiple genocides, both imperial and post-colonial.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 9:55 PM on July 23, 2022 [23 favorites]
please don’t let there be a CGI Chadwick Boseman please don’t let there be a CGI Chadwick Boseman please don’t let there be a CGI Chadwick Boseman please don’t let there be a CGI Chadwick Boseman please don’t let there be a CGI Chadwick Boseman please don’t let there be a CGI Chadwick Boseman please don’t let there be a CGI Chadwick Boseman
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:52 PM on July 23, 2022 [29 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:52 PM on July 23, 2022 [29 favorites]
Have they killed off Shuri for being politically awful IRL these days?
Yeah, while she's in the movie, the on-set awfulness (holding up production because lack of vaccination etc; can't recall if there's workplace goss with her transphobia) pretty much led to scuttlebutt that they're pivoting the future lead to be RiRi which means it's a combined Iron-Man/Black Panther captainship. (ETA oops pressed enter too soon) mind you this is based on the released merch and not much else as I recall.
posted by cendawanita at 11:37 PM on July 23, 2022
Yeah, while she's in the movie, the on-set awfulness (holding up production because lack of vaccination etc; can't recall if there's workplace goss with her transphobia) pretty much led to scuttlebutt that they're pivoting the future lead to be RiRi which means it's a combined Iron-Man/Black Panther captainship. (ETA oops pressed enter too soon) mind you this is based on the released merch and not much else as I recall.
posted by cendawanita at 11:37 PM on July 23, 2022
their neutrality is essentially complicity in multiple genocides, both imperial and post-colonial.
Ever since the first BP, my Southeast Asian polisci/history nerd friends and I have been making "oh so you mean Thailand" jokes.
posted by cendawanita at 11:40 PM on July 23, 2022 [15 favorites]
Ever since the first BP, my Southeast Asian polisci/history nerd friends and I have been making "oh so you mean Thailand" jokes.
posted by cendawanita at 11:40 PM on July 23, 2022 [15 favorites]
What a gorgeous cover of “No Woman No Cry.”
The first Black Panther movie was so powerful and emotional, and I really really enjoyed it. I’m glad they didn’t recast Chadwick Boseman’s part for this movie.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:49 PM on July 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
The first Black Panther movie was so powerful and emotional, and I really really enjoyed it. I’m glad they didn’t recast Chadwick Boseman’s part for this movie.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:49 PM on July 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
How exactly does that work, with MCU Wakanda being supposedly a land-locked country in the middle of Africa
Well, I wondered that from the second I saw the beach shots, well before I saw Sub-Mariner ("wait, isn't Wakanda in the center...?"). Perhaps they're assisting a neighboring country, as part of their new policy of engagement with the world.
posted by praemunire at 12:07 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, I wondered that from the second I saw the beach shots, well before I saw Sub-Mariner ("wait, isn't Wakanda in the center...?"). Perhaps they're assisting a neighboring country, as part of their new policy of engagement with the world.
posted by praemunire at 12:07 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
...Putting that aside, I think releasing a teaser trailer with this tone was a classy move on Marvel's part. Even if you weren't the hugest fan of the first film, if you're into the MCU at all and have any human decency, you're concerned about their handling the transition away from Boseman respectfully and with the proper emotional gravity.
(Continuing in the tradition of boss BP trailers...)
posted by praemunire at 12:24 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
(Continuing in the tradition of boss BP trailers...)
posted by praemunire at 12:24 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Wakanda vs. Sub-Mariner and the Atlanteans? How exactly does that work, with MCU Wakanda being supposedly a land-locked country in the middle of Africa (with neighbors that include Uganda, South Sudan, Ethiopia, and Kenya. Are the Atlanteans tunneling through Africa with mole submarines?
- via Detective Allen Gamble:
- via Detective Allen Gamble:
OK, first off: a lion? Swimming in the ocean? Lions don’t like water. If you placed it near a river or some sort of fresh water source, that make sense. But you find yourself in the ocean, 20 foot wave, I’m assuming off the coast of South Africa, coming up against a full grown 800 pound tuna with his 20 or 30 friends, you lose that battle, you lose that battle 9 times out of 10. And guess what, you’ve wandered into our school of tuna and we now have a taste of lion. We’ve talked to ourselves. We’ve communicated and said ‘You know what, lion tastes good, let’s go get some more lion’. We’ve developed a system to establish a beach-head and aggressively hunt you and your family and we will corner your pride, your children, your offspring. … We will construct a series of breathing apparatus with kelp. We will be able to trap certain amounts of oxygen. It’s not gonna be days at a time. An hour? Hour forty-five? No problem. That will give us enough time to figure out where you live, go back to the sea, get more oxygen, and then stalk you. You just lost at your own game. You’re outgunned and out-manned. … Did that go the way you thought it was gonna go? Nope.posted by fairmettle at 2:23 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
That's definitely Namor in several of those shots (green swim trunks, Vulcan ears, wings on his ankles, sharp eyebrows). I'm curious how they are going to portray his power. In the comics he's one of the strongest beings on the planet, able to fight Hulk and Thor.
But then in the comics Captain Marvel is significantly less powerful than Thor and the Hulk, so the MCU is fine with recalibrating some of these characters. So who knows.
posted by straight at 2:48 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
But then in the comics Captain Marvel is significantly less powerful than Thor and the Hulk, so the MCU is fine with recalibrating some of these characters. So who knows.
posted by straight at 2:48 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
It looks like there’s at least one comics storyline where Namor attacked Wakanda, but it’s tied up in a lot of X-Men lore, so… probably not that?
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:53 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:53 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Meso-American cultural touches for Atlantis are genius. I love this reinterpretation of Namor's background, though I'm already seeing far too many "they're just ripping off Avatar/Aquaman" comments (Atlanteans were blue in Marvel comics way before Avatar, gosh!!!!).
posted by fight or flight at 3:56 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 3:56 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm from Britain, an island in the sea in Europe. We just finished our fourth war with Afghanistan, a land-locked mountainous country in the middle of Asia.
Wakanda versus Atlantis seems totally plausible to me.
posted by one more day at 4:23 AM on July 24, 2022 [57 favorites]
Wakanda versus Atlantis seems totally plausible to me.
posted by one more day at 4:23 AM on July 24, 2022 [57 favorites]
In defense of the skeptics, at least British military technology is not entirely sea-life based....
Or not that I'm aware of.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:04 AM on July 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Or not that I'm aware of.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:04 AM on July 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
A nerdy historian friend and I had a talk about how one (or more) of the Black Panthers should be a villain from a neighboring African country that has a Robin Hood-esque bone to pick over Wakanda not doing anything to help their neighbors.... that could be a Rwandan, South Sudanese/Darfur, Tigrayan, Eritrean, Ugandan (LRA or Idi Amin)... when you consider who Wakanda's neighbors, their neutrality is essentially complicity in multiple genocides, both imperial and post-colonial. (^^above^^)
I've been thinking of how to build a modern-day Magneto with a similar sort of parallel to being a holocaust survivor, and a survivor of Rwandan genocide could be an interesting approach.
(I totally understand how Magneto's Jewish survivor traits are inherent to his character and I hope they retain it that way, somehow. If they choose to go another direction for some reason, maybe Black Magneto avenging an African genocide would work).
posted by GamblingBlues at 5:07 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I've been thinking of how to build a modern-day Magneto with a similar sort of parallel to being a holocaust survivor, and a survivor of Rwandan genocide could be an interesting approach.
(I totally understand how Magneto's Jewish survivor traits are inherent to his character and I hope they retain it that way, somehow. If they choose to go another direction for some reason, maybe Black Magneto avenging an African genocide would work).
posted by GamblingBlues at 5:07 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I am a regular MCU viewer but not a superfan, and my first impression was “there are a lot of shots on the beach for a landlocked country.”
Anyway, I feel there is scope for optimum here: Coogler knocked it out of the park last time, and while the loss of Boseman was a blow, Wakanda has a deep bench.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:16 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Anyway, I feel there is scope for optimum here: Coogler knocked it out of the park last time, and while the loss of Boseman was a blow, Wakanda has a deep bench.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:16 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is an effective (and affecting) trailer, plot logistics aside.
I’ve been varying levels of done with the MCU since Ultron, and this is as moved as I can remember being. Just when I think I’m out, they pull me back in.
posted by gauche at 5:34 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I’ve been varying levels of done with the MCU since Ultron, and this is as moved as I can remember being. Just when I think I’m out, they pull me back in.
posted by gauche at 5:34 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Having just finished a reread of Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers run up to Secret Wars the antipathy between Namor/Submariner and T'Challa/Black Panther is one of the core dynamics amongst the Earth-616 Illumanti. They run black ops against each other, eventually go to war (which Atlantis loses) and when Thanos and the Black Order come seeking the Infinity Gems Namor tells them they'll find them in Wakanda as a sort of scorched Earth fuck you to T'Challa.
Since the MCU is slowly developing the multiverse concept and the word "incursion" has been dropped a couple of times in coverage I think our next big Infinity War/Endgame MCU event might well be the folding in of all previous Marvel (Marvel not MCU) properties into a single cohesive universe through a Secret Wars. Why reboot when you can claim multiversal legacy and still get rewatch mileage out of your recent Fox acquisition titles. It worked for Spider-Man.
posted by Molesome at 5:52 AM on July 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
Since the MCU is slowly developing the multiverse concept and the word "incursion" has been dropped a couple of times in coverage I think our next big Infinity War/Endgame MCU event might well be the folding in of all previous Marvel (Marvel not MCU) properties into a single cohesive universe through a Secret Wars. Why reboot when you can claim multiversal legacy and still get rewatch mileage out of your recent Fox acquisition titles. It worked for Spider-Man.
posted by Molesome at 5:52 AM on July 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
No, I'm not crying, YOU'RE crying.
The decision not to recast T'Challa in the wake of Boseman's passing was an wise and unexpected move from Marvel. Like, that movie and that character was so utterly made alive and vibrant by an actor who should have had many many years ahead of him, but alas. His passing made me sad because he was so fucking good as an actor.
This teaser doesn't really tell me who takes the mantle, but if we're going to be upset by Letitia Wright's anti-vax and transphobia (I didn't know about this), I am hoping the same outrage will be applied to Evangeline Lilly in the Ant-Man series, who has been doing the same anti-vax thing and also attending anti-vax protests.
Namor with an Meso-American background?? YES PLEASE. Riri Williams as Ironheart? YES PLEASE.
I feel like the upcoming generation of superhero movies and stories are evolving to be more diverse as compared to the initial MCU outings. I love it. I love that there is gradual representation so that kids growing up with MCU now can see themselves reflected in the superhero genre.
posted by Kitteh at 6:01 AM on July 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
The decision not to recast T'Challa in the wake of Boseman's passing was an wise and unexpected move from Marvel. Like, that movie and that character was so utterly made alive and vibrant by an actor who should have had many many years ahead of him, but alas. His passing made me sad because he was so fucking good as an actor.
This teaser doesn't really tell me who takes the mantle, but if we're going to be upset by Letitia Wright's anti-vax and transphobia (I didn't know about this), I am hoping the same outrage will be applied to Evangeline Lilly in the Ant-Man series, who has been doing the same anti-vax thing and also attending anti-vax protests.
Namor with an Meso-American background?? YES PLEASE. Riri Williams as Ironheart? YES PLEASE.
I feel like the upcoming generation of superhero movies and stories are evolving to be more diverse as compared to the initial MCU outings. I love it. I love that there is gradual representation so that kids growing up with MCU now can see themselves reflected in the superhero genre.
posted by Kitteh at 6:01 AM on July 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
It's a great trailer; I hope this movie doesn't fall apart in the third act and turn into a video-game like the first one did. I was loving Black Panther right up until that final fight on the train tracks which was like the worst looking CGI I've seen in an MCU film.
posted by octothorpe at 6:10 AM on July 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:10 AM on July 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Excellent work by whoever mixed the sound for this. That transition from Marley to Lamar perfectly matched the transition from peace to war in the trailer. They must have had so much fun working on this.
posted by rajbot at 6:14 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by rajbot at 6:14 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I saw something about a rumor that Riri Williams was looking for vibranium at the bottom of the ocean. And of course Wakanda would need to put a stop to that to defend their monopoly on the stuff. So a three-way battle between Atlantis, Wakanda, and whoever is backing Williams seems likely. It would allow for a more complicated plot of shifting alliances. Especially as Wakanda has to figure out its own leadership. Personally, it seems a no-brainer to make Nakia the next Black Panther, but maybe there are behind-the-scenes reasons that won't work. I thought the first film stood out from the rest of the MCU, and it looks like this one will too.
posted by rikschell at 6:46 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 6:46 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
That transition from Marley to Lamar perfectly matched the transition from peace to war in the trailer
Yes, came here just to add that was a slick mashup.
posted by daisystomper at 7:30 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yes, came here just to add that was a slick mashup.
posted by daisystomper at 7:30 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
whoever is backing Williams
My guess is that since we had a Namor reveal in the trailer, we'll get a Doom reveal in the mid-credits scene.
posted by synecdoche at 7:51 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
My guess is that since we had a Namor reveal in the trailer, we'll get a Doom reveal in the mid-credits scene.
posted by synecdoche at 7:51 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are rivers in Wakanda. I wouldn't mind seeing the Atlantean forces coming up the big waterfall.
I'm not even the sketchiest MCU expert, so let me know if this makes sense as a premise.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:04 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm not even the sketchiest MCU expert, so let me know if this makes sense as a premise.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:04 AM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have no idea what the plot of this is based on the trailer, but it looks gorgeous and Franklin Leonard has already summed up my feelings:
I swear to god if y’all don’t mask up between now and November and mess up my #WakandaForever theater experience.posted by the primroses were over at 8:09 AM on July 24, 2022 [13 favorites]
There will be consequences.
Spoiler Warning: No one's going to mask up between now and November.
posted by octothorpe at 8:12 AM on July 24, 2022 [26 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 8:12 AM on July 24, 2022 [26 favorites]
actually let’s go all the way here, if we’re doing black magneto then given the MLK / Malcolm X dynamic that particular duo always had we need a black professor x too
posted by sixswitch at 8:16 AM on July 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 8:16 AM on July 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
I think there's a call going round to cast Giancarlo Esposito as the MCU's Professor X and I'd be down for that.
posted by Kitteh at 8:50 AM on July 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:50 AM on July 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
They got the tiny green shorts and the ankle wings, so I’m in.
posted by skycrashesdown at 8:52 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by skycrashesdown at 8:52 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Spoiler Warning: No one's going to mask up between now and November.
Come down to Chile. We never stopped wearing masks and most of us have 4 shots.
posted by signal at 9:46 AM on July 24, 2022 [18 favorites]
Come down to Chile. We never stopped wearing masks and most of us have 4 shots.
posted by signal at 9:46 AM on July 24, 2022 [18 favorites]
/There will be consequences.
What consequences, other than "everyone gets covid some more?"
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:12 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
What consequences, other than "everyone gets covid some more?"
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:12 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I mean, drowning a few nations in the ocean, and planning on hitting the now-beachfront Wakanda next, wouldn't be entirely off-brand for Namor...
posted by SunSnork at 10:27 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by SunSnork at 10:27 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
What consequences, other than "everyone gets covid some more?"
My sentiments, which I'm fairly confident are shared by Leonard, were a facetious acknowledgment that I'll be quite bitter if a fall/winter covid wave prevents me from seeing this in the theatre. The only consequences will be to myself, of course; it seems unlikely that this would be my "turns into the Joker" moment, to mix up my comic universes.
I apologize for bringing covid discourse into this thread
Anyway, the DP for this film is Autumn Durald Arkapaw, and apparently all Coogler's films have had women in that role, which is pretty cool. (I have not researched this claim myself but even if only most of his DPs have been women, I think that is notable)
posted by the primroses were over at 10:39 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
My sentiments, which I'm fairly confident are shared by Leonard, were a facetious acknowledgment that I'll be quite bitter if a fall/winter covid wave prevents me from seeing this in the theatre. The only consequences will be to myself, of course; it seems unlikely that this would be my "turns into the Joker" moment, to mix up my comic universes.
I apologize for bringing covid discourse into this thread
Anyway, the DP for this film is Autumn Durald Arkapaw, and apparently all Coogler's films have had women in that role, which is pretty cool. (I have not researched this claim myself but even if only most of his DPs have been women, I think that is notable)
posted by the primroses were over at 10:39 AM on July 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think there's a call going round to cast Giancarlo Esposito as the MCU's Professor X and I'd be down for that.
Oh god that would be amazing.
posted by praemunire at 10:44 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Oh god that would be amazing.
posted by praemunire at 10:44 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not for nothing, but rather than replacing one of the most important and notable Jewish characters in comics, maybe fans should focus on asking the MCU X-Men to do well by its actual existing black team members? I'd kill for a decent Storm storyline (not that Halle was bad, she just had terrible material).
given the MLK / Malcolm X dynamic that particular duo always had
Note that this dynamic wasn't, as some fans claim, intentional on the part of their creators. It's also kind of problematic in a lot of ways, especially in the way it misrepresents the struggles and philosophies of Malcolm X and MLK. I'd love for fans to stop talking about it, frankly.
posted by fight or flight at 10:47 AM on July 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
given the MLK / Malcolm X dynamic that particular duo always had
Note that this dynamic wasn't, as some fans claim, intentional on the part of their creators. It's also kind of problematic in a lot of ways, especially in the way it misrepresents the struggles and philosophies of Malcolm X and MLK. I'd love for fans to stop talking about it, frankly.
posted by fight or flight at 10:47 AM on July 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'd love for fans to stop talking about it, frankly.
Yes, but...Esposito would still be great for the role. Scholarly, but with an iron core.
posted by praemunire at 10:50 AM on July 24, 2022
Yes, but...Esposito would still be great for the role. Scholarly, but with an iron core.
posted by praemunire at 10:50 AM on July 24, 2022
fight or flight, point taken, but the movies are part of the cultural history of the x-men too now, so for better or for worse the allusion is baked in. and i gotta say going after sir ian is a bit of a circular firing squad. but yeah i’m against jewish erasure.
i agree storm got very short shrift. bryan singer wasn’t interested in exploring storm, as she wasn’t a twink.
posted by sixswitch at 11:22 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
i agree storm got very short shrift. bryan singer wasn’t interested in exploring storm, as she wasn’t a twink.
posted by sixswitch at 11:22 AM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm here for a Meso-American Atlantis. That underwater birth scene makes me wonder if they're linking the Atlantians with the 'Drexciya' mythology of an underwater civilization populated by children of pregnant African women thrown overboard from slave ships (see also, clipping's Hugo-nominated song, "The Deep"). As a Bostonian, I'm looking forward to what looks like a big fight scene on the Mass Ave bridge over near MIT.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:24 AM on July 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 11:24 AM on July 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
I have rewatched this trailer a lot already because it's so well put together and it makes me cry. And I know part of it is because of Chadwick but also if Angela Bassett shouted at me, I'd also be a puddle of tears. My god this film has a great cast.
I would guess they won't kill off Shiri - or at least the Queen thinking her family is gone is because she thinks Shiri is dead. I do wonder if they will reduce focus on Shiri - the trailer does start with Nakia, after all. Though that might be because she becomes the new Black Panther?
Anyway, if a film's teaser trailer can move me - not just crying, but feeling a great rush of adrenalin by the end - I'm excited for the actual film. If this is the end of Phase 4, what a way to go out.
posted by crossoverman at 3:52 PM on July 24, 2022
I would guess they won't kill off Shiri - or at least the Queen thinking her family is gone is because she thinks Shiri is dead. I do wonder if they will reduce focus on Shiri - the trailer does start with Nakia, after all. Though that might be because she becomes the new Black Panther?
Anyway, if a film's teaser trailer can move me - not just crying, but feeling a great rush of adrenalin by the end - I'm excited for the actual film. If this is the end of Phase 4, what a way to go out.
posted by crossoverman at 3:52 PM on July 24, 2022
Molesome: "I think our next big Infinity War/Endgame MCU event might well be the folding in of all previous Marvel (Marvel not MCU) properties into a single cohesive universe through a Secret Wars."
I think your thinking might be correct:
"November 7, 2025: Avengers: Secret Wars
This will be the second of a two-part conclusion to Phase 6, a la Endgame."
posted by Bugbread at 3:58 PM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think your thinking might be correct:
"November 7, 2025: Avengers: Secret Wars
This will be the second of a two-part conclusion to Phase 6, a la Endgame."
posted by Bugbread at 3:58 PM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I mean, drowning a few nations in the ocean, and planning on hitting the now-beachfront Wakanda next, wouldn't be entirely off-brand for Namor...
Yeah, I was thinking maybe Namor is invading Angola or Namibia and Wakanda, continuing on the course set by T'Challa, is defending their neighbors.
posted by straight at 4:43 PM on July 24, 2022
Yeah, I was thinking maybe Namor is invading Angola or Namibia and Wakanda, continuing on the course set by T'Challa, is defending their neighbors.
posted by straight at 4:43 PM on July 24, 2022
Okay. I'm very disappointed in all of you.
Namor is in the trailer and no one mefimailed me? I AM THE BIGGEST NAMOR FAN THERE IS!!!!
omg omg omg.
More seriously, as a big Namor fan it sucks that he has to debut as a bad guy. I hope they find a way to have him turn babyface, maybe by making a tv show about the Invaders. And yes the trailer is wonderful for so many reasons.
And I think one shot has Namor wearing the Serpent Crown, a maguffin that goes back to the 70's at least.
Namor! I am very very pleased.
posted by vrakatar at 5:14 PM on July 24, 2022
Namor is in the trailer and no one mefimailed me? I AM THE BIGGEST NAMOR FAN THERE IS!!!!
omg omg omg.
More seriously, as a big Namor fan it sucks that he has to debut as a bad guy. I hope they find a way to have him turn babyface, maybe by making a tv show about the Invaders. And yes the trailer is wonderful for so many reasons.
And I think one shot has Namor wearing the Serpent Crown, a maguffin that goes back to the 70's at least.
Namor! I am very very pleased.
posted by vrakatar at 5:14 PM on July 24, 2022
Personally, I’m excited after I saw a tweet from Vincent D’Onofrio saying there is a Daredevil movie coming out in ‘24. I’m kind of meh on Marvel movies but really liked the Netflix shows and D’Onofrio’s Kingpin is fantastic.
posted by misterpatrick at 5:23 PM on July 24, 2022
posted by misterpatrick at 5:23 PM on July 24, 2022
It will be interesting how they portray Namor, his motives and personality. After Killmonger I feel pretty optimistic about Coogler making him much more than a simple villain.
One wrinkle is that DC's current take on Black Adam (super-powerful, condescending, neutral / amoral / heroic in the service of the fictional nation he rules) is heavily inspired by Namor, so between Aquaman and The Rock's movie, it may seem like they've stolen much of Namor's thunder.
posted by straight at 5:27 PM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
One wrinkle is that DC's current take on Black Adam (super-powerful, condescending, neutral / amoral / heroic in the service of the fictional nation he rules) is heavily inspired by Namor, so between Aquaman and The Rock's movie, it may seem like they've stolen much of Namor's thunder.
posted by straight at 5:27 PM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I AM THE BIGGEST NAMOR FAN THERE IS!!!!
Impossible. Namor is the biggest Namor fan there is.
My guess is that since we had a Namor reveal in the trailer, we'll get a Doom reveal in the mid-credits scene.
I would give one. million. dollars. for one of the next Marvel movies to just be called MARVEL SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP.
posted by praemunire at 5:54 PM on July 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
Impossible. Namor is the biggest Namor fan there is.
My guess is that since we had a Namor reveal in the trailer, we'll get a Doom reveal in the mid-credits scene.
I would give one. million. dollars. for one of the next Marvel movies to just be called MARVEL SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP.
posted by praemunire at 5:54 PM on July 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
a lot of beach for a landlocked country
Perhaps thus version of Namor, instead of being an Ocean Bro, is a .... Lake Chad?
posted by bartleby at 6:17 PM on July 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
Perhaps thus version of Namor, instead of being an Ocean Bro, is a .... Lake Chad?
posted by bartleby at 6:17 PM on July 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
He is not as hot as current Aquaman.
This might be the wrongest you have ever been. We all make mistakes, it's okay. It's what we do after those mistakes that's important. (mostly joking, but Tenoch Huerta is hot.)
There was the whole slate of Phase 5 movies released yesteday. Phase 4 ends with Wakanda Forever, then Ant-man and Wasp Quantumania (with Kang) opens up Phase 5, which has an 18 episode Daredevil show, Guardians 3, Captain America 4, Blade, Thunderbolts, and a mess of other stuff, concluding with two Avengers movies in 2025, The Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:20 PM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
This might be the wrongest you have ever been. We all make mistakes, it's okay. It's what we do after those mistakes that's important. (mostly joking, but Tenoch Huerta is hot.)
There was the whole slate of Phase 5 movies released yesteday. Phase 4 ends with Wakanda Forever, then Ant-man and Wasp Quantumania (with Kang) opens up Phase 5, which has an 18 episode Daredevil show, Guardians 3, Captain America 4, Blade, Thunderbolts, and a mess of other stuff, concluding with two Avengers movies in 2025, The Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:20 PM on July 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
> I would give one. million. dollars. for one of the next Marvel movies to just be called MARVEL SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP.
Well, there is a Thunderbolts movie planned - does that count?
posted by needled at 7:21 PM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well, there is a Thunderbolts movie planned - does that count?
posted by needled at 7:21 PM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
A few great Namor moments from sorta recent comics:
A teammate asks what exactly he'd been doing with the Slimy Squid Queen: "A mere GENTLEMAN does not tell. A king is far more discreet."
Namor chastises Reed Richards about being a better husband: "I've TRIED to get her to leave you. She will not."
posted by straight at 7:37 PM on July 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
A teammate asks what exactly he'd been doing with the Slimy Squid Queen: "A mere GENTLEMAN does not tell. A king is far more discreet."
Namor chastises Reed Richards about being a better husband: "I've TRIED to get her to leave you. She will not."
posted by straight at 7:37 PM on July 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
I was just thinking the other day how boring modern trailers are, but this threads the needle between “we are all sad in and out of universe” and “come check out the next chapter, even if it’s not what we originally planned” perfectly. I need to watch it a few more times because people keep mentioning characters I didn’t even catch, but that’s no hardship.
As a lapsed Namor fan I’m extremely excited and also thinking I should finally catch up on what he’s been up to in the comics in the past…decade plus. Not too worried about his probable bad guy status here since he was created as a villain protagonist whose ~evil~ status gave him the freedom to frequently and explicitly condemn white American imperialism. (He’s even doing so in the oldest surviving piece of original Marvel art! Delightful.) He’s always been a complex character and I trust Coogler to get the nuances right.
posted by bettafish at 8:21 PM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
As a lapsed Namor fan I’m extremely excited and also thinking I should finally catch up on what he’s been up to in the comics in the past…decade plus. Not too worried about his probable bad guy status here since he was created as a villain protagonist whose ~evil~ status gave him the freedom to frequently and explicitly condemn white American imperialism. (He’s even doing so in the oldest surviving piece of original Marvel art! Delightful.) He’s always been a complex character and I trust Coogler to get the nuances right.
posted by bettafish at 8:21 PM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
mostly joking, but Tenoch Huerta is hot
Yeah, but Jason Momoa is next level, and also likes older women.
Well, I guessssssss I'll have to give Huerta his chance.
posted by praemunire at 8:26 PM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but Jason Momoa is next level, and also likes older women.
Well, I guessssssss I'll have to give Huerta his chance.
posted by praemunire at 8:26 PM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
As a Bostonian, it was interesting to see the emphasis in the trailer on the Mass. Ave. Bridge (aka the Harvard Bridge), including a scene with Bilbo Baggins standing on it with MIT in the background. Now, the Tobin Bridge is way more interesting and dramatic (pretty much anything is more interesting than the Mass. Ave. Bridge, save for the fact that it's marked off in smoots), but the Tobin's also been done to death in all those Boston gangster movies.
posted by adamg at 8:39 PM on July 24, 2022
posted by adamg at 8:39 PM on July 24, 2022
I assume part of it is because Riri Williams is an MIT student. At least, we see a girl cutting a heart out of a piece of metal so I assume it's Riri doing so.
crossoverman: Have you seen Angela Basset just casually pulling out a Lady MacBeth monologue in an interview?
posted by rmd1023 at 6:23 AM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
crossoverman: Have you seen Angela Basset just casually pulling out a Lady MacBeth monologue in an interview?
posted by rmd1023 at 6:23 AM on July 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
....Is it me or does it look like this film is going to pass the Bechdel Test with flying colors?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:10 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:10 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
....Is it me or does it look like this film is going to pass the Bechdel Test with flying colors?
No, same. There was a comment above about how deep the Wakanda hero bench is, and I noticed that it is almost all female as well. I understand Daniel Kaluuya is not returning which -- I think -- leaves Winston Duke's M'Baku as the only remaining significant male Wakandan role from the first film.
posted by gauche at 7:32 AM on July 25, 2022
No, same. There was a comment above about how deep the Wakanda hero bench is, and I noticed that it is almost all female as well. I understand Daniel Kaluuya is not returning which -- I think -- leaves Winston Duke's M'Baku as the only remaining significant male Wakandan role from the first film.
posted by gauche at 7:32 AM on July 25, 2022
My entire life I've thought that "No woman, no cry" meant "women make everything terrible". I thought it was a theme song in disastrously bad taste for this trailer.
Wikipedia disagrees, acknowledging that some people share my misconception. I think that misconception is overwhelmingly widely held, but maybe I'm being provincial?
posted by gurple at 8:31 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Wikipedia disagrees, acknowledging that some people share my misconception. I think that misconception is overwhelmingly widely held, but maybe I'm being provincial?
posted by gurple at 8:31 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Little darlin', don't shed no tears."
I rewatched it this morning on a slightly bigger screen. Chills.
posted by praemunire at 8:35 AM on July 25, 2022
I rewatched it this morning on a slightly bigger screen. Chills.
posted by praemunire at 8:35 AM on July 25, 2022
I still don't get how the heck they made this movie, what they are doing with this movie, or any of it. I have been confused the entire time on that topic and this trailer only made it worse when I heard the queen yell that her entire family was gone. Have they killed off Shuri for being politically awful IRL these days? What is going on?
The queen might be yelling this during the "Blip". T'Challa disappeared then, and perhaps Shuri did too.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:13 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
The queen might be yelling this during the "Blip". T'Challa disappeared then, and perhaps Shuri did too.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:13 AM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
We’ll have to watch the film to find out exactly what is going on.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:54 AM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:54 AM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
My entire life I've thought that "No woman, no cry" meant "women make everything terrible". I thought it was a theme song in disastrously bad taste for this trailer.
Wikipedia disagrees […]
I didn’t read it as either, but rather that women would cry at something but men wouldn’t.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:35 PM on July 25, 2022
Wikipedia disagrees […]
I didn’t read it as either, but rather that women would cry at something but men wouldn’t.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:35 PM on July 25, 2022
Bummed to see fucking Martin Freeman is in it, bleh. Hopefully it's for less time than the first one.
I had hoped and assumed that Queen Ramonda might have been speaking during the snappening, but who knows. It's always impossible to tell what is going to happen from Marvel trailers (of which this is one of the best ever). As bad as Letitia Wright is IRL, I can't help but still hold on to my love for Shuri and I don't want them to kill her off for the actress's behavior.
One tiny glimpse of M'Baku but he remains hot as fuck. 🔥
posted by kitten kaboodle at 12:53 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
I had hoped and assumed that Queen Ramonda might have been speaking during the snappening, but who knows. It's always impossible to tell what is going to happen from Marvel trailers (of which this is one of the best ever). As bad as Letitia Wright is IRL, I can't help but still hold on to my love for Shuri and I don't want them to kill her off for the actress's behavior.
One tiny glimpse of M'Baku but he remains hot as fuck. 🔥
posted by kitten kaboodle at 12:53 PM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
gurple: to put the song in historical context, it was written in 1974, when Bob and Rita Marley were involved in a soup kitchen in Trenchtown, Jamaica. It was a time of considerable political violence between the marxist/ democratic socialist PNP (led by Michael Manley) and the Labour (JLP) party, which was more liberal capitalist (think Tony Blair and Joe Biden). Marley would survive an assassination attempt during this period for his nationalism and support of PNP.
So it's Bob Marley attempting to console his wife about the political violence and poverty of their lives. Telling her not to cry, because "Everything's going to be alright".
And in a sense, he was right: the political violence didn't worsen into civil war (though it didn't exactly abate), Manley provided considerable social improvement (arguably the Jamaican FDR), and Bob lived on for another seven years, becoming one of the best selling artists of all history.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:01 PM on July 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
So it's Bob Marley attempting to console his wife about the political violence and poverty of their lives. Telling her not to cry, because "Everything's going to be alright".
And in a sense, he was right: the political violence didn't worsen into civil war (though it didn't exactly abate), Manley provided considerable social improvement (arguably the Jamaican FDR), and Bob lived on for another seven years, becoming one of the best selling artists of all history.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:01 PM on July 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
Here's the full length version of the No Woman, No Cry cover.
posted by Constance Mirabella at 7:56 PM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Constance Mirabella at 7:56 PM on July 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
So I guess I'm the only person who really didn't like the use of No Woman, No Cry? Using popular songs in trailers has always felt silly to me. It works when the movie itself is silly, but for something that's trying to be serious, it feels naff. Doubly so when it's a slowed down and more dramatic version of the original.
I mean, taste is subjective, so I'm not saying y'all are wrong for liking it. Different strokes for different folks. I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who didn't.
posted by Bugbread at 9:04 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I mean, taste is subjective, so I'm not saying y'all are wrong for liking it. Different strokes for different folks. I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who didn't.
posted by Bugbread at 9:04 PM on July 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Re popular songs in trailers, especially slowed-down versions: This trailer doesn't quite follow the formula, but I am reminded of the "How to Make a Blockbuster Movie Trailer" video, which includes "Introduce unexpected cover of a classic hit" at 0:30.
Has that video not been posted on the blue? 30sec of googling didn't find it. It seems a bit thin even for a SLYT post, though.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:58 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Has that video not been posted on the blue? 30sec of googling didn't find it. It seems a bit thin even for a SLYT post, though.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:58 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
How the Cover Song Conquered Movie Trailers
posted by octothorpe at 5:04 AM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 5:04 AM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ah, thank you. It seemed unlikely that it hadn't shown up here, but apparently today my search-fu is weak.
posted by rmd1023 at 9:14 AM on July 26, 2022
posted by rmd1023 at 9:14 AM on July 26, 2022
(You can actually d/l that Auralnauts cover. I use it as the cue-up for my cardio workout sometimes because it lets me pretend I'm part of a secret government experiment to develop superpowers.)
posted by praemunire at 1:22 PM on July 26, 2022
posted by praemunire at 1:22 PM on July 26, 2022
There's a bit about that flubbed final fight in Black Panther in "What it's like working for Marvel," from an anonymous VFX artist (Vulture, July 26, 2022). Problems abound, starting with the bidding process for the work. "With Marvel, the bids will typically come in quite a bit under, and Marvel is happy with that relationship, because it saves it money. But what ends up happening is that all Marvel projects tend to be understaffed. Where I would usually have a team of ten VFX artists on a non-Marvel movie, on one Marvel movie, I got two including myself." Moreover:
Maybe a month or two before a movie comes out, Marvel will have us change the entire third act. It has really tight turnaround times. So yeah, it’s just not a great situation all around. One visual-effects house could not finish the number of shots and reshoots Marvel was asking for in time, so Marvel had to give my studio the work. Ever since, that house has effectively been blacklisted from getting Marvel work. [...]posted by Iris Gambol at 11:27 AM on July 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
The other issue is, when we’re in postproduction, we don’t have a director of photography involved. So we’re coming up with the shots a lot of the time. It causes a lot of incongruity. A good example of what happens in these scenarios is the battle scene at the end of Black Panther. The physics are completely off. Suddenly, the characters are jumping around, doing all these crazy moves like action figures in space. Suddenly, the camera is doing these motions that haven’t happened in the rest of the movie. It all looks a bit cartoony. It has broken the visual language of the film. [...]
Marvel needs to train its directors on working with visual effects and have a better vision out of the gate. The other thing is unionization. [...] Some of the problems I mentioned are universal to every show and every project. But you end up doing less overtime on other shows. You end up being able to push back more on the directors. When they say something like, “Hey, I want this,” you can be like, “This doesn’t make sense.” Not every client has the bullying power of Marvel.
Another thing that's interesting about Namor is that in the comics he's considered a mutant (billed as "Marvel's First Mutant" particularly in the '90s when the X-Men dominated Marvel Comics) and has been a member of the X-Men (as well as fighting Nazis with Captain America during WW2, a Fantastic Four villain in response to finding one of his people's underwater cities destroyed by nuclear tests, being an Avenger, and regularly teaming up with Dr. Strange, the Silver Surfer, and the Hulk as "The Defenders" when he's not busy being King of Atlantis).
When Wanda and Pietro were introduced to the MCU in Age of Ultron, they were the first MCU characters who had been canonically Mutants in the comics, but this was fudged since Disney didn't have the rights to the X-Men.
But Namor would be the first Mutant from Marvel Comics to appear in the MCU since Disney acquired the rights to Mutants and the X-Men (not counting glimpses of people in alternate universes and whatever weird thing was going on in WandaVision).
posted by straight at 1:41 PM on July 30, 2022
When Wanda and Pietro were introduced to the MCU in Age of Ultron, they were the first MCU characters who had been canonically Mutants in the comics, but this was fudged since Disney didn't have the rights to the X-Men.
But Namor would be the first Mutant from Marvel Comics to appear in the MCU since Disney acquired the rights to Mutants and the X-Men (not counting glimpses of people in alternate universes and whatever weird thing was going on in WandaVision).
posted by straight at 1:41 PM on July 30, 2022
straight: " and regularly teaming up with Dr. Strange, the Silver Surfer, and the Hulk as "The Defenders" when he's not busy being King of Atlantis)."
You forgot the king of Ablantis.
posted by signal at 2:44 PM on July 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
You forgot the king of Ablantis.
posted by signal at 2:44 PM on July 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
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