four hands are better than two
August 9, 2022 4:25 AM Subscribe
The arrival of a large, complicated and possibly important painting to the studio was a perfect opportunity to introduce a young conservation apprentice to the highs and lows of working with problematic paintings.
Julian Baumgartner of Baumgartner Fine Art Restoration (previously 1 and 2) takes on an apprentice named Kit -- and finally tells us what fish gelatin tastes like -- in this new four part series: The Conservator, The Apprentice, and The Problem [part 1, youtube, 27minutes]
Part 2 [32 mins]
Part 3 [30 mins]
Part 4 [33 mins]
Part 2 [32 mins]
Part 3 [30 mins]
Part 4 [33 mins]
It's fascinating - as an artist and former framer to see the details of conservation - thanks for posting this!
posted by leslies at 9:28 AM on August 9, 2022
posted by leslies at 9:28 AM on August 9, 2022
aesop, I'm a conservator of rare books & documents, a related field with a similar need for repetition. It *does* take a certain obsessive-compulsive mindset for such work, and I'm always surprised to find that others can remain engaged in just watching it ...
posted by Shadan7 at 9:32 AM on August 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Shadan7 at 9:32 AM on August 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
This should be fun to watch. I thought I recalled some previous discussions of Baumgartner as having horrified professional reactions to the methodologies used for restoration.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:39 AM on August 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:39 AM on August 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
i fell in love with this youtube channel because of how satisfying i find the cleaning sections. especially when he does like a 4-5 minute chunk of the video with just music and the close up of the swab, or the slightly zoomed out timelapse version that is used in this series (link, starts with voiceover right around 17min mark in part 3 then goes into timelapse with music for a while starting around the 19min mark)
similar to what capricorn described back in the first post of this channel in 2018, i also get a pleasantly strong emotional asmr-ish buzz from the slow reveal of the actual colors of the painting, culminating in the side-by-sides after it's all clean.
it's such a specific and distinct phenomenological experience for me -- would be a great frozen yogurt flavor on The Good Place.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:50 AM on August 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
similar to what capricorn described back in the first post of this channel in 2018, i also get a pleasantly strong emotional asmr-ish buzz from the slow reveal of the actual colors of the painting, culminating in the side-by-sides after it's all clean.
it's such a specific and distinct phenomenological experience for me -- would be a great frozen yogurt flavor on The Good Place.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:50 AM on August 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I admit to spending the first video appalled thinking he was calling Kit "Kid"...
posted by some chick at 10:42 AM on August 9, 2022
posted by some chick at 10:42 AM on August 9, 2022
"I thought I recalled some previous discussions of Baumgartner as having horrified professional reactions to the methodologies used for restoration."
Only two previous discussions of him show up in the search, and none have any professional reactions. But it 's unfortunately common for a bunch of professionals who see someone doing what they do, and doing it well, and obviously getting paid for it, and still being appalled because that person does it differently, because in their view, their method is the only true method. Julian Baumgartner clearly knows what he's doing, is trusted by people who know the value of their art, and is obviously getting paid well to do it. So I'd chalk up any "but that's the wrong way!" you see to jealousy.
posted by jonathanhughes at 12:54 PM on August 9, 2022
Only two previous discussions of him show up in the search, and none have any professional reactions. But it 's unfortunately common for a bunch of professionals who see someone doing what they do, and doing it well, and obviously getting paid for it, and still being appalled because that person does it differently, because in their view, their method is the only true method. Julian Baumgartner clearly knows what he's doing, is trusted by people who know the value of their art, and is obviously getting paid well to do it. So I'd chalk up any "but that's the wrong way!" you see to jealousy.
posted by jonathanhughes at 12:54 PM on August 9, 2022
jonathanhughes, so i think the reactions that drewbage1847 is alluding to (and that come up a lot, in pretty much every video, because it's definitionally sort of his job) have to do with uncovering the destructive "conservation" practices that are sort of layered into many of the pieces he gets, and were perpetrated by people long dead.
it's the heavy-handed overpainting or the improper use of strong adhesives or whatever from some nob in the 1800s, not jealousy or disagreement with some contemporary.
overall i don't think i've ever seen any emotional reaction by Julian that is above a 2 in intensity on a 1-10 scale. being extremely mellow and asmr-y is an intentional vibe here.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:14 PM on August 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
it's the heavy-handed overpainting or the improper use of strong adhesives or whatever from some nob in the 1800s, not jealousy or disagreement with some contemporary.
overall i don't think i've ever seen any emotional reaction by Julian that is above a 2 in intensity on a 1-10 scale. being extremely mellow and asmr-y is an intentional vibe here.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:14 PM on August 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I subscribe to this channel and mostly enjoy it, but not frequently. There is a quality to the narration which gets to me...been trying to put my finger on it. Smug? Patronizing? Something along those lines? (It might all be in my head.)
I haven't watched this set yet...mainly as I don't want to discover this is an unpaid apprentice (a disgusting practice which needs to be squashed). Hopefully not?
posted by maxwelton at 4:01 PM on August 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I haven't watched this set yet...mainly as I don't want to discover this is an unpaid apprentice (a disgusting practice which needs to be squashed). Hopefully not?
posted by maxwelton at 4:01 PM on August 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
"jonathanhughes, so i think the reactions that drewbage1847 is alluding to (and that come up a lot, in pretty much every video, because it's definitionally sort of his job) have to do with uncovering the destructive "conservation" practices that are sort of layered into many of the pieces he gets, and were perpetrated by people long dead. "
I thought that drewbage1847 was speaking of reaction to Baumgartner, not reactions by him. Yes, he definitely makes it known when a previous restoration job was shoddy.
"There is a quality to the narration which gets to me...been trying to put my finger on it. Smug? Patronizing? Something along those lines?"
His earlier videos don't seem to have that. I wonder if he's latched on to the ASMR trend and tailors his narration accordingly. In his in the more recent videos, he tends to speak in an intentionally relaxing tone, which could come across as patronizing; and he also tends to over enunciate the T's at the end of words, which seems like it would appeal to the ASMR fans who like clicking sounds. Check out this video from four years ago. It's a totally different tone. Very conversational
posted by jonathanhughes at 4:54 PM on August 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I thought that drewbage1847 was speaking of reaction to Baumgartner, not reactions by him. Yes, he definitely makes it known when a previous restoration job was shoddy.
"There is a quality to the narration which gets to me...been trying to put my finger on it. Smug? Patronizing? Something along those lines?"
His earlier videos don't seem to have that. I wonder if he's latched on to the ASMR trend and tailors his narration accordingly. In his in the more recent videos, he tends to speak in an intentionally relaxing tone, which could come across as patronizing; and he also tends to over enunciate the T's at the end of words, which seems like it would appeal to the ASMR fans who like clicking sounds. Check out this video from four years ago. It's a totally different tone. Very conversational
posted by jonathanhughes at 4:54 PM on August 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
He’s definitely more tuned in to ASMR stuff - a chunk of his audience are people who find him soothing and something to relax to/fall asleep to. I’m not surprised he leaned into it.
I work with conservators fairly regularly and it’s always magical watching them work. I’m always amazed by how they can color-match.
I come from a museum perspective and I think from that angle he is sometimes considered a little heavy-handed, but most of his work doesn’t seem too out of step with what I observe or transcribe reports on. Museum conservation tends to ask for a lighter touch-stabilize but don’t try to bring it back to looking like it just came off the easel.
posted by PussKillian at 7:29 PM on August 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I work with conservators fairly regularly and it’s always magical watching them work. I’m always amazed by how they can color-match.
I come from a museum perspective and I think from that angle he is sometimes considered a little heavy-handed, but most of his work doesn’t seem too out of step with what I observe or transcribe reports on. Museum conservation tends to ask for a lighter touch-stabilize but don’t try to bring it back to looking like it just came off the easel.
posted by PussKillian at 7:29 PM on August 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Baumgartner's videos are definitely high points of our current Friday night rituals - pop an edible, and after they've kicked in, watch a video of his and just revel in his nice calming tone and the fascination of the restoration work.
I think I've seen some bits of criticism of his work around here and there, but it's felt like those came across as from people who maybe do the extreme museum restoration of "artifacts", versus him doing work for paying customers and having to work within the budgets and desires of those clients.
posted by evilangela at 9:30 AM on August 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think I've seen some bits of criticism of his work around here and there, but it's felt like those came across as from people who maybe do the extreme museum restoration of "artifacts", versus him doing work for paying customers and having to work within the budgets and desires of those clients.
posted by evilangela at 9:30 AM on August 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
The critiques I've seen about him do tend to be from people who subscribe to the museum conservator school of thought, which isn't about restoring artifacts, it's about preserving them and their history. From that point of view, when you remove old repair attempts and disguise damage with touchups you're removing the history of the piece, which is part of the value of the object: how it's been used and interpreted by a succession of people on its journey through time. The worth isn't only in the object as it was at the moment it was created.
On the other hand, that's just one school of thought, and Baumgartner works for clients who don't care about that, and who often want to see the piece as the artist created it, and that's what they're paying him to do. And since he's following the conservator's creed of documenting every change and making sure everything he adds is detectable and reversible, the only permanent changes are removing previous repairs.
I can see the utility in both points of view. I did a degree in museum studies, and took a course in conservation (which was all theory: we didn't touch any artifacts!) and got to tour a conservation center that did both museum and private client work. A piece they had in from a client was a portrait of a woman on a dark background, and X-ray investigation showed that there was a baby in the portrait that had been painted over at a later date. Why? No documentation existed: maybe the baby died, maybe someone who owned the portrait later on thought it looked weird, who knows? They asked the client if they wanted to uncover the baby, and they said yes, they wanted to see the portrait as it was originally intended. A museum might have had a different point of view (especially if there was documentation as to why the change), because that showed the portrait's evolving meaning over the decades, perhaps mounting the X-rays next to the painting on exhibit so people can see the changing story.
posted by telophase at 7:58 AM on August 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, that's just one school of thought, and Baumgartner works for clients who don't care about that, and who often want to see the piece as the artist created it, and that's what they're paying him to do. And since he's following the conservator's creed of documenting every change and making sure everything he adds is detectable and reversible, the only permanent changes are removing previous repairs.
I can see the utility in both points of view. I did a degree in museum studies, and took a course in conservation (which was all theory: we didn't touch any artifacts!) and got to tour a conservation center that did both museum and private client work. A piece they had in from a client was a portrait of a woman on a dark background, and X-ray investigation showed that there was a baby in the portrait that had been painted over at a later date. Why? No documentation existed: maybe the baby died, maybe someone who owned the portrait later on thought it looked weird, who knows? They asked the client if they wanted to uncover the baby, and they said yes, they wanted to see the portrait as it was originally intended. A museum might have had a different point of view (especially if there was documentation as to why the change), because that showed the portrait's evolving meaning over the decades, perhaps mounting the X-rays next to the painting on exhibit so people can see the changing story.
posted by telophase at 7:58 AM on August 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I hadn't seen any of these videos before so I may be missing some context.
As someone in a conservation-adjacent profession I was a little surprised they were so incurious about the label until it came time to move it from one side to another. They clearly recognized (and say) it as an important part of the provenance that had been hidden for some time, including hidden from the owner of the painting who was expressly interested in the provenance. On first watch, I thought it odd that they read the largest word of the label and announced "stretcher" when it was self evidently a stretcher. That is, a sort of odd label for those days. When I saw the label fleetingly on first watch it appeared to be a name I read as "Stecher" clearly followed by an address. "Stecher Art Wichita". It's an odd sequence of inattention on their part.
I was also very surprised the restorer didn't or couldn't recognize the difference in weaving, thread, etc., between late 19th or early 20th century machine woven canvas and a mid to late 17th century hand woven canvas from Spain. Similarly, one would expect machine stitching of the two pieces together in Stetcher's time, but not in Murillo's. Maybe he is just in the flow, but when you are face down with the canvas for hours or day then it seems odd not to be thinking about the big picture (so to speak).
Anyway, hindsight and all that, but it seems to me those were two quite red flags encountered early on that might have induced a call to the client, even at the risk of a derailed project. I know their job was to restore not to verify, but eventually the client does get called for that exact reason.
posted by Rumple at 12:54 PM on August 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
As someone in a conservation-adjacent profession I was a little surprised they were so incurious about the label until it came time to move it from one side to another. They clearly recognized (and say) it as an important part of the provenance that had been hidden for some time, including hidden from the owner of the painting who was expressly interested in the provenance. On first watch, I thought it odd that they read the largest word of the label and announced "stretcher" when it was self evidently a stretcher. That is, a sort of odd label for those days. When I saw the label fleetingly on first watch it appeared to be a name I read as "Stecher" clearly followed by an address. "Stecher Art Wichita". It's an odd sequence of inattention on their part.
I was also very surprised the restorer didn't or couldn't recognize the difference in weaving, thread, etc., between late 19th or early 20th century machine woven canvas and a mid to late 17th century hand woven canvas from Spain. Similarly, one would expect machine stitching of the two pieces together in Stetcher's time, but not in Murillo's. Maybe he is just in the flow, but when you are face down with the canvas for hours or day then it seems odd not to be thinking about the big picture (so to speak).
Anyway, hindsight and all that, but it seems to me those were two quite red flags encountered early on that might have induced a call to the client, even at the risk of a derailed project. I know their job was to restore not to verify, but eventually the client does get called for that exact reason.
posted by Rumple at 12:54 PM on August 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think he'd definitely know the canvas difference - he even keeps a stash of old canvas to repair holes, so he would have a decent idea about the differences. And I can't imagine they'd miss the label either. So my assumption is they put a story together that would work over the several videos but which isn't exactly what happened.
posted by PussKillian at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by PussKillian at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
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*(this is just a figure of speech: in actuality we sit fascinated through most every episode.)
It's odd how much I look forward to seeing the same things done again and again. I wonder what Mr B. makes of having to find variations on 'I covered it with kozo, scraped a bunch of crap off, cleaned it up and/or sealed it'. Although it seems to be that he takes the same pleasure in it (mindful repetition? depiction of a comforting flow activity?) that we viewers do, I do wonder to what extent he's thinking "Why on earth do they keep watching me do this?"
posted by aesop at 8:21 AM on August 9, 2022