It is transportation's answer to the Death Star!
May 16, 2023 3:11 PM Subscribe
Rotaries, traffic circles, roundabouts... Do you ever just want to rant about roundabouts? Well, you don't have to! Lewis Black, as a professional ranter, has been reading audience-written rants at the end of his shows for years! He is here for you, for all of us really, with The Rant Is Due, Best Of Roundabouts. [18m30s]
My only complaint about traffic circles in my area is planners who feel they have to complicate them by adding multiple, sometimes opposing(!!!) lanes.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 4:04 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Mister Moofoo at 4:04 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
Roundabouts may be fine for cars, but in my experience they suck for pedestrians and cyclists.
posted by fimbulvetr at 4:32 PM on May 16, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 4:32 PM on May 16, 2023 [17 favorites]
The only issue I ever have with traffic circles in America is people who refuse to learn how to use them.
Yes - I didn't watch the whole video, but most people writing in are complaining about people not knowing how to use roundabouts rather than the fact that roundabouts exist.
I'm used to people being overly cautious about whether they can enter a roundabout and effectively turning it into a 4-way stop because of that, but I recently saw someone in the roundabout stop to yield to someone trying to enter the roundabout, which was a new failure mode for me.
posted by LionIndex at 4:34 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes - I didn't watch the whole video, but most people writing in are complaining about people not knowing how to use roundabouts rather than the fact that roundabouts exist.
I'm used to people being overly cautious about whether they can enter a roundabout and effectively turning it into a 4-way stop because of that, but I recently saw someone in the roundabout stop to yield to someone trying to enter the roundabout, which was a new failure mode for me.
posted by LionIndex at 4:34 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
On my first trip to Britain back in the late 70’s, we had a cheap rental car and I got to experience driving on the “wrong side” of the street and those “fucking” roundabouts. Oh, in regards to those, what a brilliant piece of traffic engineering. While approaching, you look at the sign to see the order of exits and remember which one you need - #2. You watch the traffic in the roundabout, slow down to smoothly enter into the flow, start counting exits, and just leave the flow when you get to your exit. Genius. You don’t have to stop. Everyone seems just be in the flow. Enter, flow, exit. And I never encountered any problems. It just worked. Unlike here where traffic lights are just signals to stomp on the gas. Four way stops? There’s always one person who doesn’t. Roundabouts are the Tao of traffic. ☯️ American intersections are death traps. And don’t get me started on when bicycles get into the mix. Pedestrians? It’s every person for themselves.
posted by njohnson23 at 4:36 PM on May 16, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 4:36 PM on May 16, 2023 [8 favorites]
Oh, and I forgot. If you miss your exit you just go around until you get to it again.
posted by njohnson23 at 4:38 PM on May 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 4:38 PM on May 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Genius. You don’t have to stop. Everyone seems just be in the flow.
Which is why roundabouts are a nightmare for pedestrians. Not only do cars just want to “flow” and never stop, it also increases the distance you have to walk.
posted by fimbulvetr at 4:40 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
Which is why roundabouts are a nightmare for pedestrians. Not only do cars just want to “flow” and never stop, it also increases the distance you have to walk.
posted by fimbulvetr at 4:40 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
One of the cities near me has the best of both worlds - they have roundabouts that have four-way stop signs as well, so you can be sure there won't be any traffic improvements from the roundabout.
posted by caphector at 4:51 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by caphector at 4:51 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
We have a thing here where roundabouts have clearly marked exits but also have multiple lanes that will force you off at a specific exit but maybe it's not the one you want?
Like, you enter a roundabout at 6 o'clock, and going American-wise you pass an exit at 3 o'clock and the one at 12 o'clock forces you off, but you wanted the one at 10 o'clock. It wasn't mentioned at any point that you had to merge left in order to not be forced out at 12 o'clock.
You shouldn't need to rehearse a traffic maneuver in an unfamiliar area. They could do this better, truly.
posted by hippybear at 4:52 PM on May 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Like, you enter a roundabout at 6 o'clock, and going American-wise you pass an exit at 3 o'clock and the one at 12 o'clock forces you off, but you wanted the one at 10 o'clock. It wasn't mentioned at any point that you had to merge left in order to not be forced out at 12 o'clock.
You shouldn't need to rehearse a traffic maneuver in an unfamiliar area. They could do this better, truly.
posted by hippybear at 4:52 PM on May 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Washington DC has the spectacular invention of roundabouts that also have traffic lights on them, because we hate sanity here.
posted by Inkoate at 4:53 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Inkoate at 4:53 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hippybear- I assume those are American roundabouts, and nobody here seems to get them to begin with. I never saw anything like that in foreign lands.
posted by njohnson23 at 4:55 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by njohnson23 at 4:55 PM on May 16, 2023
I hear what you're saying, fimbulvetr but I'm not sure they're any worse for pedestrians than traditional intersections. When I've walked across them, I only have to get the attention of one driver at a time rather than the whole intersection.
posted by Ickster at 4:56 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Ickster at 4:56 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Roundabouts suck. Whee, let's add more merging, the most dangerous and horrible part of driving.
My god I'm so happy I live in a place with good public transportation and a real rail network now. I haven't touched a steering wheel in years and I've never missed it once.
posted by kyrademon at 4:57 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
My god I'm so happy I live in a place with good public transportation and a real rail network now. I haven't touched a steering wheel in years and I've never missed it once.
posted by kyrademon at 4:57 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
I haven't touched a steering wheel in years and I've never missed it once.
Excellent. Use your years-long-amassed steering powers to steer the political powers to create this situation for everyone everywhere and all this will be solved!
posted by hippybear at 4:58 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
Excellent. Use your years-long-amassed steering powers to steer the political powers to create this situation for everyone everywhere and all this will be solved!
posted by hippybear at 4:58 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
I’m okay with single lane roundabouts and multi lane ones confuse and worry me.
posted by clew at 5:00 PM on May 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by clew at 5:00 PM on May 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
Highway of the future - all lanes angle slightly towards the shoulder. Keep merging left to stay on the road. Those that can't do so end up in the emergency lane where they can call emergency services or a cab or something. Passive left lane campers end up in the right lane where they belong.
posted by Ansible at 5:03 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Ansible at 5:03 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
I recently saw someone in the roundabout stop to yield to someone trying to enter the roundabout, which was a new failure mode for me.
In the 1930s, that's how roundabouts (well, rotaries) were supposed to work in the US.
It was deadly and awful and the ultimate reason why Americans abandoned roundabouts and still hate and fear them to this day.
posted by gurple at 5:05 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
In the 1930s, that's how roundabouts (well, rotaries) were supposed to work in the US.
It was deadly and awful and the ultimate reason why Americans abandoned roundabouts and still hate and fear them to this day.
posted by gurple at 5:05 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
> "Use your years-long-amassed steering powers to steer the political powers to create this situation for everyone everywhere and all this will be solved!"
I wish I could. Doing my best with the one vote I have.
posted by kyrademon at 5:09 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
I wish I could. Doing my best with the one vote I have.
posted by kyrademon at 5:09 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
What bugs me about them is several existing intersections nearby where converted to them, and some to diverging diamond interchanges, in lieu of long overdue and critical bridge and overpass maintenance, fixing potholes, etc.
posted by Foosnark at 5:09 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by Foosnark at 5:09 PM on May 16, 2023
Eastern Kentucky gets its first roundabout.
(Hi, I am originally from Kentucky and can mock these folks if I wish.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:10 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
(Hi, I am originally from Kentucky and can mock these folks if I wish.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:10 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Here in Northern VA, US, we have plenty of traffic circles. If we could only get tractor trailers avoid our circles (too small of a diameter in the circle) and have our drivers to only look to their left when merging (instead of the cars waiting to their right), perhaps things would improve.
Route 66 now features a round-a-bout on a bridge. It is in the shape of a long dog bone, where each end has a 3/4 of a circle; if you miss the exit, you need to drive back across the bridge and try again.
🦴Route 66 and Nutley Street
The bridge is undergoing updating, so the Google Map has an overlay of where the dog bone is.
posted by bacalao_y_betun at 5:15 PM on May 16, 2023
Route 66 now features a round-a-bout on a bridge. It is in the shape of a long dog bone, where each end has a 3/4 of a circle; if you miss the exit, you need to drive back across the bridge and try again.
🦴Route 66 and Nutley Street
The bridge is undergoing updating, so the Google Map has an overlay of where the dog bone is.
posted by bacalao_y_betun at 5:15 PM on May 16, 2023
One of my goals is to drive through all the roundabouts in Carmel, Indiana. There's over 138 of them!
posted by plastic_animals at 5:16 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by plastic_animals at 5:16 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm just back from a bout of driving in southwestern France, a country which I think might have more roundabouts than any other. Roundabouts are one of the best features of driving in France: easy to deal with, ample signage, drivers who know what they're doing.
And there are no stupid over-engineered signs to confuse people, like this example from California (these are depressingly common in Minnesota, too). Roundabouts have two easy rules: yield going in, signal going out. But U.S. transportation departments have to muck up the situation by creating these awful arrow diagrams.
posted by gimonca at 5:32 PM on May 16, 2023
And there are no stupid over-engineered signs to confuse people, like this example from California (these are depressingly common in Minnesota, too). Roundabouts have two easy rules: yield going in, signal going out. But U.S. transportation departments have to muck up the situation by creating these awful arrow diagrams.
posted by gimonca at 5:32 PM on May 16, 2023
We have places around here where, if you pick the correct direction to try to travel, you end up going through three roundabouts basically in series. Not even a mile from beginning to end of the chain.
posted by hippybear at 5:40 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by hippybear at 5:40 PM on May 16, 2023
Roundabouts may be fine for cars, but in my experience they suck for pedestrians and cyclists.
You'd think that would make them fit right in in America
posted by Merus at 5:41 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
You'd think that would make them fit right in in America
posted by Merus at 5:41 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Massachusetts actually make a concerted effort to publish the rule that car in a rotary HAS right of way. Somehow it has become accepted as common habit in most roundabout rotaries in my recent experience. An accepted rule makes a huge difference.
The best rotary evah (by the Alewife station, since turned into stoplights) was a 3 lane freeway (Rt 2) that was not congested and had a long steep hill so everyone was doing 70 right onto local streets. No one slowed until well through the rotary. Insane. Well a few slowed right down, just to make it interesting -- obstacles to weave around.
posted by sammyo at 6:19 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
The best rotary evah (by the Alewife station, since turned into stoplights) was a 3 lane freeway (Rt 2) that was not congested and had a long steep hill so everyone was doing 70 right onto local streets. No one slowed until well through the rotary. Insane. Well a few slowed right down, just to make it interesting -- obstacles to weave around.
posted by sammyo at 6:19 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
My only bad experience with a roundabout was one where the arc with the road I didn’t want was the place I had to go to see the sign for the road I wanted. I took several wrong turns. Serves me right; I wasn’t from around there, so why should I get where I was going?
Also,
MetaFilter: an overlay of where the dog bone is
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:20 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also,
MetaFilter: an overlay of where the dog bone is
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:20 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
The village installed a roundabout a few years back for safety reasons and it's been...mostly drama-free? (Aside from the people who decide to floor it when you, the unwary pedestrian, are trying to cross.) The non-stop flow of traffic can be annoying if you're trying to get onto the street during rush hours (or rush-ier hours, anyway--it's rarely that busy), but it appears to have done its job of reducing accidents.
posted by thomas j wise at 6:23 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by thomas j wise at 6:23 PM on May 16, 2023
traffic circles w all those fucking yield and merge signs are bullshit. og roundabouts? that's the way.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:25 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by j_curiouser at 6:25 PM on May 16, 2023
I think they’re great. Like, if you’re trying to get in and around the lake.
posted by jquinby at 6:28 PM on May 16, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 6:28 PM on May 16, 2023 [13 favorites]
But those mountains come out of the sky... and they STAND THERE!
I mean, one mile over, and we'll see you.
posted by hippybear at 6:30 PM on May 16, 2023 [12 favorites]
I mean, one mile over, and we'll see you.
posted by hippybear at 6:30 PM on May 16, 2023 [12 favorites]
Here in eastern Massachusetts, the Home of the Rotary (tm), most people deal with them just fine. Four-way stops? Like the ones at the Dedham Mall? Gedadaheah with that nonsense!
posted by adamg at 6:41 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by adamg at 6:41 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Our old house was right near a double roundabout!
We only walked through there for recreation but I didn't notice it being any worse than the old setup where there was one traffic light at Kensington and Harlem and then another at Wehrle and Harlem maybe a hundred feet south of it.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:45 PM on May 16, 2023
We only walked through there for recreation but I didn't notice it being any worse than the old setup where there was one traffic light at Kensington and Harlem and then another at Wehrle and Harlem maybe a hundred feet south of it.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:45 PM on May 16, 2023
We had an interstate exit where it was hard to see what was coming because the exit ramps are carved out of rock, and not very well. It was announced that the exit would be converted to two roundabouts. Great, I thought, but they're going to have to carve those hills a lot further out. They did not. So the roundabouts are way too small, and even though people know how to use them, it's essentially a four-way stop now because you still can't see traffic coming.
posted by Miss Cellania at 6:50 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by Miss Cellania at 6:50 PM on May 16, 2023
MetaFilter: the exit ramps are carved out of rock, and not very well.
posted by hippybear at 6:55 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by hippybear at 6:55 PM on May 16, 2023
Washington DC has the spectacular invention of roundabouts that also have traffic lights on them, because we hate sanity here.
Those are all over the UK as well. Lots of big roundabouts with lights partway round them.
Hippybear- I assume those are American roundabouts, and nobody here seems to get them to begin with. I never saw anything like that in foreign lands.
We have lots of them in the UK too.
posted by Dysk at 7:03 PM on May 16, 2023
Those are all over the UK as well. Lots of big roundabouts with lights partway round them.
Hippybear- I assume those are American roundabouts, and nobody here seems to get them to begin with. I never saw anything like that in foreign lands.
We have lots of them in the UK too.
posted by Dysk at 7:03 PM on May 16, 2023
Call it morning driving through the sound and even in the valley
posted by kirkaracha at 7:04 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 7:04 PM on May 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
I like roundabouts and they have been making their way into Montana in the last 10 years. I like being able to whip through them (following procedure) and if you do it above the posted speed it's a fun driving experience.
But it's going to take a generation for people to learn how to use them properly. Many Montana license plates have a county number as the start of the plate number and I've learned to expect anyone from a small-town county will come to a complete stop before entering the roundabout.
posted by ITravelMontana at 7:15 PM on May 16, 2023
But it's going to take a generation for people to learn how to use them properly. Many Montana license plates have a county number as the start of the plate number and I've learned to expect anyone from a small-town county will come to a complete stop before entering the roundabout.
posted by ITravelMontana at 7:15 PM on May 16, 2023
When I lived in Canberra (Australia) there was a giant roundabout that was a nightmare and a black spot for fatal accidents.
Vehicles entered the roundabout moving fast, but the roundabout was so large (and had trees growing in the centre) that you could not tell from some of the entrances, before entering the roundabout, if it was safe to enter the roundabout, or if one of the cars from the entrance to your right might collide with you.
It was TERRIFYING.
After many, many accidents (and some deaths) they have now removed that roundabout and replaced it with traffic lights.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 7:32 PM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Vehicles entered the roundabout moving fast, but the roundabout was so large (and had trees growing in the centre) that you could not tell from some of the entrances, before entering the roundabout, if it was safe to enter the roundabout, or if one of the cars from the entrance to your right might collide with you.
It was TERRIFYING.
After many, many accidents (and some deaths) they have now removed that roundabout and replaced it with traffic lights.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 7:32 PM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
The UK's Monster Raving Loony Party once proposed that if you came to a roundabout, you should be allowed to drive straight up over the middle of it if no one else is coming.
Might be their best idea ever.
posted by delfin at 7:34 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Might be their best idea ever.
posted by delfin at 7:34 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh, and I forgot. If you miss your exit you just go around until you get to it again.
This is also how I play jigs and reels. Missed my exit into the chorus? Play four more bars and go out after those.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:01 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is also how I play jigs and reels. Missed my exit into the chorus? Play four more bars and go out after those.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:01 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
On a podcast recently I heard that as part of the mandate of the newly-established BBC a century ago, it set up a panel to standardize (sorry — standardise) various terms which might have various regional variations. If a given thing is called by one name in Devon, a second in the Home Counties, a third in Yorkshire and a fourth in Scotland, broadcasts might be misleading to some listeners.
Apparently “roundabout” was a pre-existing name that the Beeb tried to eliminate in favour of the more elegant “gyratory circuses.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:09 PM on May 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Apparently “roundabout” was a pre-existing name that the Beeb tried to eliminate in favour of the more elegant “gyratory circuses.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:09 PM on May 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
gyrator circuses is Greg_Ace's new sockpuppet name.
posted by hippybear at 8:28 PM on May 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:28 PM on May 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
I live on a corner with a roundabout that replaced stop signs. It confuses a lot of drivers so they slow down at least. I've lived here many years and before the roundabout, there was a crash about once a month. My parked car was crushed by one such crash. I regularly heard the slam of brakes and crashing cars. Since the roundabout was installed over 20 years ago, there has not been a single crash. I love it.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 11:11 PM on May 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 11:11 PM on May 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
I lived in England for the last two years of high school and every. Single. Time. we entered a roundabout my dad would say, “Look kids! Tower of London! Big Ben!”
posted by bendy at 11:12 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by bendy at 11:12 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Obligatory UK WTF - The Magic Roundabout, Swindon.
posted by IncognitoErgoSum at 2:29 AM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by IncognitoErgoSum at 2:29 AM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
> But U.S. transportation departments have to muck up the situation by creating these awful arrow diagrams.
It’s pronounced MUTCD.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 2:38 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
It’s pronounced MUTCD.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 2:38 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Let's not forget that there are also underwater roundabouts ....
posted by mbo at 2:48 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mbo at 2:48 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
The northern suburbs of Indianapolis have gone roundabout crazy over the past umpteen years, converting seemingly every possible intersection into roundabouts. It’s basically ok, really. I have a friend, though, who drives a school bus, and he reports that many of said roundabouts are not sized to allow anything larger than a minivan through. School busses, fire trucks, etc. regularly have to drive over the curbing in order to navigate the tight circles. Emergency vehicles of all sorts resort to hopping curbs so as to not be slowed down by the tight circles.
I think there’s a distinct lack of planning in the location and sizing of many of these circles here. Some of them are crazy tight, even for small cars. I get the distinct feeling that roundabouts are being used as more sophisticated speed bumps in traffic control.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:59 AM on May 17, 2023
I think there’s a distinct lack of planning in the location and sizing of many of these circles here. Some of them are crazy tight, even for small cars. I get the distinct feeling that roundabouts are being used as more sophisticated speed bumps in traffic control.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:59 AM on May 17, 2023
I think you can fix roundabouts for cyclists by forbidding overtaking of other road users while on the roundabout. That would allow everyone to switch lanes safely for the 30 seconds it would take for everyone to get back on the straight again.Is this already a thing? (Yeah I know good luck with that)
posted by aesop at 6:14 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by aesop at 6:14 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh, that dog-bone double roundabout is a bad one, but it's nothing compared to the pre-existing abomination not far away: Fairfax Circle.
It's a traffic circle with another busy road (route 50) going straight through the middle. It's a roundabout with a light-controlled intersection! Look at this shit.
You may have noticed from that link that it's just an intersection of two roads. It doesn't need a circle of any kind, let alone this madness. Whoever came up with this is some kind of evil genius.
posted by cardioid at 6:24 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's a traffic circle with another busy road (route 50) going straight through the middle. It's a roundabout with a light-controlled intersection! Look at this shit.
You may have noticed from that link that it's just an intersection of two roads. It doesn't need a circle of any kind, let alone this madness. Whoever came up with this is some kind of evil genius.
posted by cardioid at 6:24 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
No overtaking would make me feel much better about multi lane roundabouts. Good patch.
Those strangely literal US signs are probably to keep people from going in the wrong way to make a left turn.
There’s a roundabout near me where someone regularly puts up signs asking users to signal, and the signs as regularly vanish. I’m always in favor of drivers being predictable, but in this case… I can only signal right, afaict? It’s a one-lane roundabout. Signaling just before I exited would potentially allow someone to enter a little sooner, but how could they trust I had my signaling perfect?
posted by clew at 7:10 AM on May 17, 2023
Those strangely literal US signs are probably to keep people from going in the wrong way to make a left turn.
There’s a roundabout near me where someone regularly puts up signs asking users to signal, and the signs as regularly vanish. I’m always in favor of drivers being predictable, but in this case… I can only signal right, afaict? It’s a one-lane roundabout. Signaling just before I exited would potentially allow someone to enter a little sooner, but how could they trust I had my signaling perfect?
posted by clew at 7:10 AM on May 17, 2023
Damn it, IncognitoErgoSum beat me to the Magic Roundabout. That's terrifying. We've got lots of roundabouts in New Jersey, and many many jughandles, where you make a really long circular right turn to go left.
There's one near our house (in Westfield, NJ) that we used to call the Traffic Circle of Death. It was there that a Salvation Army truck sideswiped us while we were on the way to our pediatrician's office with our brand new baby. (No one was hurt.) Then they finally fixed the traffic pattern, so now we just refer to it as the Traffic Circle of Doom--people still don't know how to use it but I haven't been sideswiped there since. And there's still plans to fix it again.
posted by ceejaytee at 8:05 AM on May 17, 2023
There's one near our house (in Westfield, NJ) that we used to call the Traffic Circle of Death. It was there that a Salvation Army truck sideswiped us while we were on the way to our pediatrician's office with our brand new baby. (No one was hurt.) Then they finally fixed the traffic pattern, so now we just refer to it as the Traffic Circle of Doom--people still don't know how to use it but I haven't been sideswiped there since. And there's still plans to fix it again.
posted by ceejaytee at 8:05 AM on May 17, 2023
I lived in England for the last two years of high school and every. Single. Time. we entered a roundabout my dad would say, “Look kids! Tower of London! Big Ben!”
Your dad sounds like my kind of guy.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:04 AM on May 17, 2023
Your dad sounds like my kind of guy.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:04 AM on May 17, 2023
Dang, the Mass RMV says the vanity plate "ROTARY" is taken. I love rotaries. It's how I learned true Boston driving, including the "psychic stiff-arm" where you stop incoming traffic from (illegally) cutting you off in the rotary simply by holding out your arm, like a 1930s running-back.
posted by not_on_display at 9:45 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by not_on_display at 9:45 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh, that dog-bone double roundabout is a bad one, but it's nothing compared to the pre-existing abomination not far away: Fairfax Circle.
It's a traffic circle with another busy road (route 50) going straight through the middle. It's a roundabout with a light-controlled intersection! Look at this shit.
I have driven around that circle many times, never quickly (due to the lights) and always fearful. The whole thing just doesn't make sense. There are lights on the circle and on the straight through section. I've taken to avoiding it just so I don't have to make any decisions as to when/where to go.
posted by bacalao_y_betun at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2023
It's a traffic circle with another busy road (route 50) going straight through the middle. It's a roundabout with a light-controlled intersection! Look at this shit.
I have driven around that circle many times, never quickly (due to the lights) and always fearful. The whole thing just doesn't make sense. There are lights on the circle and on the straight through section. I've taken to avoiding it just so I don't have to make any decisions as to when/where to go.
posted by bacalao_y_betun at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2023
Dang, the Mass RMV says the vanity plate "ROTARY" is taken.
Probably by a Rotary Club member, and not a fan of traffic rotaries.
posted by hippybear at 4:57 PM on May 17, 2023
Probably by a Rotary Club member, and not a fan of traffic rotaries.
posted by hippybear at 4:57 PM on May 17, 2023
Now I’m imagining the other rotary club, no meeting halls, just quiet visits to odd roundabouts.
posted by clew at 11:51 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 11:51 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Overtaking on roundabouts is not allowed in the uk. People will do it, but lanes on a roundabout have purpose, and you should only ever switch lanes outwards as you leave for your exit.
Regarding roundabout design, one of the fundamental ideas of multi lane roundabouts is that if you are in the leftmost lane, you cannot turn right. You can always go left, and sometimes forwards (at least in the uk, this is determined by signage and road markings).
If you are ever confused, simply use the right lane and proceed round, which is an always an option.
I think roundabouts are great. They improve the flow of traffic, but also manage speed in a way 4 way junctions do not. They are also easier for pedestrians to cross at; most larger roundabouts have a in and out road allowing islands to cross at, which makes it substantially easier to cross. And again, motorists will be going slower than they would otherwise, which is a benenfit.
Roundabouts with lights makes sense to me; for larger roundabouts with more traffic, additional management can improve traffic flow more. In fact theres a roundabout near me which I wished use lights, as it can be very difficult to join from one direction as the flow of traffic is pretty constant from one direction.
There are a handful of mutlilane roundabouts I do not like, where they seem to have a design where you suddenly need to be several lanes over rather than naturally spiraling round.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 12:07 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Regarding roundabout design, one of the fundamental ideas of multi lane roundabouts is that if you are in the leftmost lane, you cannot turn right. You can always go left, and sometimes forwards (at least in the uk, this is determined by signage and road markings).
If you are ever confused, simply use the right lane and proceed round, which is an always an option.
I think roundabouts are great. They improve the flow of traffic, but also manage speed in a way 4 way junctions do not. They are also easier for pedestrians to cross at; most larger roundabouts have a in and out road allowing islands to cross at, which makes it substantially easier to cross. And again, motorists will be going slower than they would otherwise, which is a benenfit.
Roundabouts with lights makes sense to me; for larger roundabouts with more traffic, additional management can improve traffic flow more. In fact theres a roundabout near me which I wished use lights, as it can be very difficult to join from one direction as the flow of traffic is pretty constant from one direction.
There are a handful of mutlilane roundabouts I do not like, where they seem to have a design where you suddenly need to be several lanes over rather than naturally spiraling round.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 12:07 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
They are also easier for pedestrians to cross at; most larger roundabouts have a in and out road allowing islands to cross at, which makes it substantially easier to cross. And again, motorists will be going slower than they would otherwise, which is a benenfit.
As a non-driver living in Britain, this is the exact opposite of my experience. Crossing at roundabouts is miserable. A lighted junction will, at a minimum, have periods where half the road you're trying to cross is inactive, and if pedestrians are accounted for (they usually are) there is just no comparison. An unlighted junction design (e.g. double T junction) will still have traffic stopped at the junction (where you can catch a driver's eye, give them a nod, and dash in front of them quickly) in a way that roundabouts never will.
Traffic flows to roundabouts never stop. And a car in the roundabout is not going to stop to let you across, and frankly nor should it, whereas a car at a four way junction can easily stop to let you across. Cars approaching the roundabout tend to slow to a crawl rather than approach the junction and then stop, to an extent that isn't true of other junctions in my experience. This makes traffic flow less predictable, and means that you cannot rely on judging the size of gaps, as they can grow and shrink unexpectedly. Oh, and compared to a regular junction, it can be hard to determine where someone is going - relying on people actually indicating is a bad idea at any time, but ab even worse one in a roundabout. And compared to a regular junction, you cannot read the 'body language' of the car to determine if they're going straight, turning left, right, etc.
Roundabouts are a great for traffic, but terrible for pedestrians. They cannot be early modified to allow for pedestrians either (a lighted junction can always just add a pedestrian phase, an unlighted junction can add lights or even just zebra stripes, a roundabout cannot accommodate any of these without ruining the roundabout). They can only really work for pedestrians if traffic levels are quite low (at which point any junction design is workable).
posted by Dysk at 1:20 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
As a non-driver living in Britain, this is the exact opposite of my experience. Crossing at roundabouts is miserable. A lighted junction will, at a minimum, have periods where half the road you're trying to cross is inactive, and if pedestrians are accounted for (they usually are) there is just no comparison. An unlighted junction design (e.g. double T junction) will still have traffic stopped at the junction (where you can catch a driver's eye, give them a nod, and dash in front of them quickly) in a way that roundabouts never will.
Traffic flows to roundabouts never stop. And a car in the roundabout is not going to stop to let you across, and frankly nor should it, whereas a car at a four way junction can easily stop to let you across. Cars approaching the roundabout tend to slow to a crawl rather than approach the junction and then stop, to an extent that isn't true of other junctions in my experience. This makes traffic flow less predictable, and means that you cannot rely on judging the size of gaps, as they can grow and shrink unexpectedly. Oh, and compared to a regular junction, it can be hard to determine where someone is going - relying on people actually indicating is a bad idea at any time, but ab even worse one in a roundabout. And compared to a regular junction, you cannot read the 'body language' of the car to determine if they're going straight, turning left, right, etc.
Roundabouts are a great for traffic, but terrible for pedestrians. They cannot be early modified to allow for pedestrians either (a lighted junction can always just add a pedestrian phase, an unlighted junction can add lights or even just zebra stripes, a roundabout cannot accommodate any of these without ruining the roundabout). They can only really work for pedestrians if traffic levels are quite low (at which point any junction design is workable).
posted by Dysk at 1:20 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
So this is one of those cases where personal experience will matter, but as a fellow pedestrian in the UK, most roundabouts I encounter on a day to day basis feel safer and easier to cross, because they are almost always split into islands, which allows me to focus on one lane of traffic at once. Practically speaking, there will always be gaps. Your experience is your experience, but I rarely find roundabouts hard to cross.
Case in point; at the bottom of my town there is an A road that rings around it. I recently needed to cross the A road to get to a car dealer. That area is not optimised for pedestrians; its not really expected that pedestrians are there, and the limit is 60. The existence of the roundabout meant I was actually able to cross fairly quickly, simply waiting for a sufficient gap in the traffic. Had it been a 4 way intersection, there is no way I could have crossed two lanes safely, but the combination of islands plus traffic naturally slowing for the roundabout made me feel much better about getting across.
There also was a law change which means that drivers are meant to wait for pedestrians to cross at roundabouts; but this is basically little known about and drivers usually do not follow it.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 5:27 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Case in point; at the bottom of my town there is an A road that rings around it. I recently needed to cross the A road to get to a car dealer. That area is not optimised for pedestrians; its not really expected that pedestrians are there, and the limit is 60. The existence of the roundabout meant I was actually able to cross fairly quickly, simply waiting for a sufficient gap in the traffic. Had it been a 4 way intersection, there is no way I could have crossed two lanes safely, but the combination of islands plus traffic naturally slowing for the roundabout made me feel much better about getting across.
There also was a law change which means that drivers are meant to wait for pedestrians to cross at roundabouts; but this is basically little known about and drivers usually do not follow it.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 5:27 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
There seems to be some ambiguity about what it means for a pedestrian to cross a roundabout -- are you expected to cut straight through, or walk along the outer perimeter? The latter seems sensible because you only walk in front of cars that are entering and yielding; the former seems pretty dangerous.
I'll add that as someone who recently decided to learn manual transmission, busy roundabouts are more of a hassle than busy stoplights when you're new to juggling a clutch and shifter. With a stoplight it's usually clear from a distance if you need to stop, so it's easy to anticipate the necessary shifting. A busy roundabout is much more dynamic and unpredictable though, so I find myself having to decide at the last second whether I can stay in gear and cruise through at reduced speed, or slow down enough to downshift to 2nd, or slow down so much that I need to put it in 1st and prepare for a complete stop. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but for someone new to stickshift, it's enough to cause a little anxiety.
posted by ambulatorybird at 7:12 AM on May 18, 2023
I'll add that as someone who recently decided to learn manual transmission, busy roundabouts are more of a hassle than busy stoplights when you're new to juggling a clutch and shifter. With a stoplight it's usually clear from a distance if you need to stop, so it's easy to anticipate the necessary shifting. A busy roundabout is much more dynamic and unpredictable though, so I find myself having to decide at the last second whether I can stay in gear and cruise through at reduced speed, or slow down enough to downshift to 2nd, or slow down so much that I need to put it in 1st and prepare for a complete stop. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but for someone new to stickshift, it's enough to cause a little anxiety.
posted by ambulatorybird at 7:12 AM on May 18, 2023
Ah yeah, a lot of roundabouts around here are not split into islands - you've often got to cross traffic into and out of the roundabout at once. Smaller roundabouts are often worse for this, because any car in the roundabout has to be treated as potentially coming off where you need to cross until its driven past - at which point the next car is on the way. (This is especially bad when the traffic flow is very predominantly in one direction, off the exit you're trying to cross.) Everyone slows to approach the roundabout, bunching them up. I often find it easier to walk down the road a pace, where the traffic has an opportunity to space out a bit again, and the odd gap from someone actually going past your exit becomes much more visible, with much more time to react.
posted by Dysk at 7:21 AM on May 18, 2023
posted by Dysk at 7:21 AM on May 18, 2023
Last time I looked for info on roundabout safety for pedestrians I remember seeing a lot of "there aren't many good studies yet" answers, so I wonder if that's changed now. I'd love to see some recent research. But one group who does seem hurt by roundabouts are visually impaired pedestrians who use sounds from traffic signals to move through city streets.
That said, I really like roundabouts and *knocks wood* so far haven't had any problems with them on my bike, even during busy times.
Not quite clear, though, on the point of the slightly raised mini-circles Raleigh has been adding to the center of some intersections of small residential streets. Seems a bit silly to try and create roundabouts there.
posted by mediareport at 11:57 AM on May 18, 2023
That said, I really like roundabouts and *knocks wood* so far haven't had any problems with them on my bike, even during busy times.
Not quite clear, though, on the point of the slightly raised mini-circles Raleigh has been adding to the center of some intersections of small residential streets. Seems a bit silly to try and create roundabouts there.
posted by mediareport at 11:57 AM on May 18, 2023
My town has a very large roundabout that's been in place for quite a while. There are trees; a local group installed lighting and changes it up seasonally. For a while it was rainbow colors. I have no idea if it was meant to be a Pride celebration, but I smiled every time, as my town has gotten less conservative year by year.
posted by theora55 at 7:41 AM on May 19, 2023
posted by theora55 at 7:41 AM on May 19, 2023
Not quite clear, though, on the point of the slightly raised mini-circles Raleigh has been adding to the center of some intersections of small residential streets.
I’ve seen these in a few cities, mostly in residential neighborhoods. I think they are mostly to slow down through traffic and reduce speeding rather than functioning as “real” rotaries.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’ve seen these in a few cities, mostly in residential neighborhoods. I think they are mostly to slow down through traffic and reduce speeding rather than functioning as “real” rotaries.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
not quite clear on the mini raised circles....
The low raised island at the intersection of two streets is a "traffic circle," not a roundabout. The circle narrows the roadway so only one car can fit through. Two traffic circles near my house have transformed a 45-50 mph cut-through street into a place that elementary school kids can cross without fear. Most drivers treat it like a roundabout, circling around to make a left turn. It's actually legal in Wisconsin to go left before the circle.
posted by Jesse the K at 2:29 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
The low raised island at the intersection of two streets is a "traffic circle," not a roundabout. The circle narrows the roadway so only one car can fit through. Two traffic circles near my house have transformed a 45-50 mph cut-through street into a place that elementary school kids can cross without fear. Most drivers treat it like a roundabout, circling around to make a left turn. It's actually legal in Wisconsin to go left before the circle.
posted by Jesse the K at 2:29 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's actually legal in Wisconsin to go left before the circle.
If you mean traffic laws in your state encourage people to take alternate routes to avoid the congested intersection that encouraged the creations of the traffic circle intersection... that's awesome!
If you mean it's legal in Wisconsin to turn left against the flow of a traffic circle to turn left... that's awful.
posted by hippybear at 7:44 PM on May 20, 2023
If you mean traffic laws in your state encourage people to take alternate routes to avoid the congested intersection that encouraged the creations of the traffic circle intersection... that's awesome!
If you mean it's legal in Wisconsin to turn left against the flow of a traffic circle to turn left... that's awful.
posted by hippybear at 7:44 PM on May 20, 2023
It's the second case, unfortunately, but it's limited to traffic circles -- not roundabouts.
Here's a Wisconsin plus, though: the Velo UnderRound is a bicycle roundabout managing traffic between city and state bike paths.
posted by Jesse the K at 8:30 AM on May 22, 2023
Here's a Wisconsin plus, though: the Velo UnderRound is a bicycle roundabout managing traffic between city and state bike paths.
posted by Jesse the K at 8:30 AM on May 22, 2023
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Once again America's inability to observe the Yield sign inverts our collective heads/asses.
posted by djseafood at 4:00 PM on May 16, 2023 [28 favorites]