🍁 Canadian Independent Media
August 28, 2023 9:40 AM Subscribe
is T___ N____ not good...?
posted by slater at 10:01 AM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by slater at 10:01 AM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Press Progress not being on this list seems like a pretty glaring omission. And, The Western Standard being here? Why not Rebel Media as well? I keed, I keed.
Anyways, thanks for posting this, I will check out some of the sites over the next little while.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:01 AM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Anyways, thanks for posting this, I will check out some of the sites over the next little while.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:01 AM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing The Narwhal (nature) is fine and True North (conservative) is not.
posted by aniola at 10:04 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by aniola at 10:04 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
The problem is that the word "professional" often means "doing something at a consistently high level of quality" or "conforming to a code of ethics in your work and performing it in the public interest".
But as the presence of True North and The Western Standard on this list show, it can also have the meaning of "getting paid to do something".
posted by Superilla at 10:10 AM on August 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
But as the presence of True North and The Western Standard on this list show, it can also have the meaning of "getting paid to do something".
posted by Superilla at 10:10 AM on August 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
For context, here is most of what I've heard about the Online News Act.
posted by aniola at 10:15 AM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by aniola at 10:15 AM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Trying to find out what (if anything) other search engines, like DuckDuckGo, have said about whether they will do anything different because of the Online News Act. Anyone seen anything?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:00 AM on August 28, 2023
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:00 AM on August 28, 2023
Blacklocks? True North? The Post Millennial? Western Standard? Useless list.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:02 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:02 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Poo-poo all the right-wing/conservative sites you want, I learned about several new options from this list and am grateful for it.
posted by furtive at 11:57 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by furtive at 11:57 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Trying to find out what (if anything) other search engines, like DuckDuckGo, have said about whether they will do anything different because of the Online News Act. Anyone seen anything?
I haven't seen anything. I use DuckDuckGo as my primary search engine and have noticed no difference in how they link news.
That said, my understanding is that the Online News Act doesn't automatically mean that a media company gets compensated by tech companies for link sharing, but rather that the tech company is now legislated to negotiate with the media company regarding that compensation when asked to do so. DuckDuckGo is something like 0.75% of the desktop market share, so I'm not sure most media companies would bother with it. And maybe that's what the smaller companies are banking on. They are all dust motes when compared to Meta and Google who are making a stink, so who's paying attention to the little guys.
I wish my local papers would be more online forward - it would be nice to see them on this list since they aren't owned by any big corps. I'm pretty sure the entire area thinks Facebook is the internet, and even though they've taken a huge hit because of the Meta/Google backlash, I don't know how much getting on a list like this would help grow their local audience. It's such a mess.
posted by eekernohan at 12:49 PM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I haven't seen anything. I use DuckDuckGo as my primary search engine and have noticed no difference in how they link news.
That said, my understanding is that the Online News Act doesn't automatically mean that a media company gets compensated by tech companies for link sharing, but rather that the tech company is now legislated to negotiate with the media company regarding that compensation when asked to do so. DuckDuckGo is something like 0.75% of the desktop market share, so I'm not sure most media companies would bother with it. And maybe that's what the smaller companies are banking on. They are all dust motes when compared to Meta and Google who are making a stink, so who's paying attention to the little guys.
I wish my local papers would be more online forward - it would be nice to see them on this list since they aren't owned by any big corps. I'm pretty sure the entire area thinks Facebook is the internet, and even though they've taken a huge hit because of the Meta/Google backlash, I don't know how much getting on a list like this would help grow their local audience. It's such a mess.
posted by eekernohan at 12:49 PM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hi – I’m the creator of the Canadian Independent Media site. Thank you for adding it to the discussion.
I've heard the arguments before about True North, The Post Millennial, and Western Standard being on the page and I think people are confused about what this is.
It’s a constantly updated list of news organizations that are a) Canadian b) professional and c) online only. The unmentioned d) is I generally don't include sites belonging to legacy media or sites downsized to online only after previously being in print.
What the list is not is a list of sites that are cool, or have the correct politics, or cover news in the way that I think they should be covered.
No matter what you think of True North, The Post Millennial, or Western Standard , they are out there working the proverbial phones, doing interviews, and writing stories. They don't get excluded because of their subject matter.
I probably would have included Rebel News because they are out there breaking stories – but they have sued other journalists and I consider that makes them not worthy of addition.
And people who dismiss Blacklock’s because they believe that they are swivel-eyed loons really need to take a personal re-assessment of what they believe news is. Those swivel-eyed loons read every single document from every single committee of the House and Senate. Every news organization in Canada should have a subscription to them – they are doing 90 per cent of a journo’s work.
Press Progress was an excellent suggestion and I have now added it. Please keep suggestions coming.
posted by unfettered at 1:18 PM on August 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
I've heard the arguments before about True North, The Post Millennial, and Western Standard being on the page and I think people are confused about what this is.
It’s a constantly updated list of news organizations that are a) Canadian b) professional and c) online only. The unmentioned d) is I generally don't include sites belonging to legacy media or sites downsized to online only after previously being in print.
What the list is not is a list of sites that are cool, or have the correct politics, or cover news in the way that I think they should be covered.
No matter what you think of True North, The Post Millennial, or Western Standard , they are out there working the proverbial phones, doing interviews, and writing stories. They don't get excluded because of their subject matter.
I probably would have included Rebel News because they are out there breaking stories – but they have sued other journalists and I consider that makes them not worthy of addition.
And people who dismiss Blacklock’s because they believe that they are swivel-eyed loons really need to take a personal re-assessment of what they believe news is. Those swivel-eyed loons read every single document from every single committee of the House and Senate. Every news organization in Canada should have a subscription to them – they are doing 90 per cent of a journo’s work.
Press Progress was an excellent suggestion and I have now added it. Please keep suggestions coming.
posted by unfettered at 1:18 PM on August 28, 2023 [13 favorites]
unfettered,
I'm not picking at your inclusion of certain publications based on their politics, but going by your own standards, the Western Standard doesn't belong on your list as it had a print publication before becoming online only.
Even then, I don't really care. It's always a good thing to promote Canadian media, no matter its form.
posted by sardonyx at 1:51 PM on August 28, 2023
I'm not picking at your inclusion of certain publications based on their politics, but going by your own standards, the Western Standard doesn't belong on your list as it had a print publication before becoming online only.
Even then, I don't really care. It's always a good thing to promote Canadian media, no matter its form.
posted by sardonyx at 1:51 PM on August 28, 2023
Sardonyx, thank you for the comment. I actually had no idea that the Western Standard was once a print mag – although looking at Wiki, there is no good reason that I never came across it. Just never noticed.
Technically, the current Western Standard isn’t a continuation of the old – the name was purchased and reused. But I still didn’t know any of this.
The print rule is not set in stone but more of a ‘it's going to suck now’ filter. I can't really think of many print publications that maintained quality much less improved when moving online. The UK’s Independent is one. The Atlantic’s and New York’s extra verticals, maybe?
posted by unfettered at 2:05 PM on August 28, 2023
Technically, the current Western Standard isn’t a continuation of the old – the name was purchased and reused. But I still didn’t know any of this.
The print rule is not set in stone but more of a ‘it's going to suck now’ filter. I can't really think of many print publications that maintained quality much less improved when moving online. The UK’s Independent is one. The Atlantic’s and New York’s extra verticals, maybe?
posted by unfettered at 2:05 PM on August 28, 2023
It’s a constantly updated list of news organizations that are a) Canadian b) professional and c) online only. The unmentioned d) is I generally don't include sites belonging to legacy media or sites downsized to online only after previously being in print.
This is a helpful list, and I thank you for making it! But as I mentioned above, your criteria (b) leaves unstated what sort of "professional" you intend. With no qualifier, it can appear you are personally endorsing all of these news outlets as providing journalism produced in the public interest, to a high ethical standard, done by skilled and rigorous workers.
But the appearance of some of the outlets, like the anti-vax Western Standard, make it seem more likely that you are listing journalism outlets that have paid staff. Which is also a good thing for online sites to do! But some clarity would help. Or maybe you are endorsing them as ethical, high standard organizations?
posted by Superilla at 3:07 PM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is a helpful list, and I thank you for making it! But as I mentioned above, your criteria (b) leaves unstated what sort of "professional" you intend. With no qualifier, it can appear you are personally endorsing all of these news outlets as providing journalism produced in the public interest, to a high ethical standard, done by skilled and rigorous workers.
But the appearance of some of the outlets, like the anti-vax Western Standard, make it seem more likely that you are listing journalism outlets that have paid staff. Which is also a good thing for online sites to do! But some clarity would help. Or maybe you are endorsing them as ethical, high standard organizations?
posted by Superilla at 3:07 PM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Western Standard is occasionally not terrible when they turn on their own and bite the hand that feeds them. Unfortunately they revert to the mean consistently.
posted by blue_beetle at 3:54 PM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by blue_beetle at 3:54 PM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Independent inspires. It evokes freedom, liberty, an ability to truly speak freely.
It also means any agitprop online outlet able to build an audience of loons willing to pay for news that straight up lie to them. So I guess my point is that the word independent is far from the be-all end-all that you should think it is.
Look for media with little in terms of narrative. For example, those right-wing media on that list are all up on the narrative that Trudeau is tired, his chances are shot, he needs to go. When everybody who knows anything about Canadian politics knows that unless disaster strikes, a sitting PM makes sure anybody in cabinet not running in the next election is gone years before said election. Including themselves, the PM. For all those right-wing media outlets, lying to you about the narrative is more important than the simple reality that Trudeau decided to run in the next election in 2021. And decrying THAT.
posted by papineau at 8:06 PM on August 28, 2023
It also means any agitprop online outlet able to build an audience of loons willing to pay for news that straight up lie to them. So I guess my point is that the word independent is far from the be-all end-all that you should think it is.
Look for media with little in terms of narrative. For example, those right-wing media on that list are all up on the narrative that Trudeau is tired, his chances are shot, he needs to go. When everybody who knows anything about Canadian politics knows that unless disaster strikes, a sitting PM makes sure anybody in cabinet not running in the next election is gone years before said election. Including themselves, the PM. For all those right-wing media outlets, lying to you about the narrative is more important than the simple reality that Trudeau decided to run in the next election in 2021. And decrying THAT.
posted by papineau at 8:06 PM on August 28, 2023
Professional is in the eye of the beholder.
Journalism is best when journalists are trying to out compete each other to the story rather than act as a professor lecturing to dim students.
Tabloid journalists and tabloid publications are frequently unsavoury - and often root out hypocrisy and fraud.
Calling the Western Standard anti vax is a great example.
I’m COVID vaccinated all the way, boosters and all. If there is a new one this autumn, I’ll be taking it. I don’t believe it’s harmful, quite the contrary, I believe the jabs will reduce my symptoms greatly if I contract COVID.
But it’s not unreasonable to investigate everything surrounding the pandemic. That’s how truth comes out - probing the narrative. Probably nothing will come out but there is no harm in looking.
The tragedies of thalidomide came out only by journalists. The medical consensus at the time was that it was safe.
The ongoing fear that the measles vaccine causes autism did not happen in a vacuum. The British medical journal The Lancet published a peer reviewed article saying as such. Before it was revealed as a fraud, The Guardian famously defended the research.
As the journo motto goes, ‘if your mother says she loves you, check it out’.
posted by unfettered at 9:32 PM on August 28, 2023
Journalism is best when journalists are trying to out compete each other to the story rather than act as a professor lecturing to dim students.
Tabloid journalists and tabloid publications are frequently unsavoury - and often root out hypocrisy and fraud.
Calling the Western Standard anti vax is a great example.
I’m COVID vaccinated all the way, boosters and all. If there is a new one this autumn, I’ll be taking it. I don’t believe it’s harmful, quite the contrary, I believe the jabs will reduce my symptoms greatly if I contract COVID.
But it’s not unreasonable to investigate everything surrounding the pandemic. That’s how truth comes out - probing the narrative. Probably nothing will come out but there is no harm in looking.
The tragedies of thalidomide came out only by journalists. The medical consensus at the time was that it was safe.
The ongoing fear that the measles vaccine causes autism did not happen in a vacuum. The British medical journal The Lancet published a peer reviewed article saying as such. Before it was revealed as a fraud, The Guardian famously defended the research.
As the journo motto goes, ‘if your mother says she loves you, check it out’.
posted by unfettered at 9:32 PM on August 28, 2023
>And people who dismiss Blacklock’s because they believe that they are swivel-eyed loons really need to take a personal re-assessment of what they believe news is. Those swivel-eyed loons read every single document from every single committee of the House and Senate. Every news organization in Canada should have a subscription to them – they are doing 90 per cent of a journo’s work.
Two years ago Blacklock's wrote an article that was premised on their not understanding how Facebook's auto-translate feature works. When their error was pointed out to them, repeatedly, they refused to revisit their premise and repeatedly doubled down on it.
You can push subscriptions to a company whose ideology leads them to make things up out of whole cloth: I will not, nor will I ever consider them a legitimate journalistic source.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:35 AM on August 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Two years ago Blacklock's wrote an article that was premised on their not understanding how Facebook's auto-translate feature works. When their error was pointed out to them, repeatedly, they refused to revisit their premise and repeatedly doubled down on it.
You can push subscriptions to a company whose ideology leads them to make things up out of whole cloth: I will not, nor will I ever consider them a legitimate journalistic source.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:35 AM on August 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Notorious SRD, that story is crazy! And infuriating!
For everyone else: Sophie Gregoire Trudeau posted on Facebook, in French, that her great-uncle died in the Second World War. Facebook’s auto-translate-to-English changed that – weirdly – to grandfather.
Blacklock’s then ran a story accusing Gregoire Trudeau of making up a story of her grandfather’s death. And like Notorious SRD says, dozens of people pointed out that she wrote great-uncle in the French version, it was Facebook that screwed up.
Yet the editor of Blacklock's kept re-Tweeting their original story and not acknowledging the error. Bizarre.
posted by unfettered at 1:57 PM on August 30, 2023
For everyone else: Sophie Gregoire Trudeau posted on Facebook, in French, that her great-uncle died in the Second World War. Facebook’s auto-translate-to-English changed that – weirdly – to grandfather.
Blacklock’s then ran a story accusing Gregoire Trudeau of making up a story of her grandfather’s death. And like Notorious SRD says, dozens of people pointed out that she wrote great-uncle in the French version, it was Facebook that screwed up.
Yet the editor of Blacklock's kept re-Tweeting their original story and not acknowledging the error. Bizarre.
posted by unfettered at 1:57 PM on August 30, 2023
That doesn't sound like professional journalism to me.
posted by aniola at 10:11 AM on August 31, 2023
posted by aniola at 10:11 AM on August 31, 2023
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posted by seanmpuckett at 9:45 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]