If the customer wants wheat toast, we simply flip the jelly pack over
November 11, 2023 12:41 AM Subscribe
Welcome, new grill trainee, to the Waffle House family! Today in this training video, recorded by Area Vice President Greg Hall, you will be introduced to the "Magic Marker System," the only approved method of "marking" orders at Waffle House, and is absolutely used in all of its restaurants really honest. It isn't at all what those heathens at Huddle House and IHOP would call "batshit insane." Ready? Let's begin!
Warning: if you watch the whole thing will be a fully qualified Waffle House grill cook, and may in fact be drafted into the Waffle House organization.
The batshit insane tag on Metafilter.
Warning: if you watch the whole thing will be a fully qualified Waffle House grill cook, and may in fact be drafted into the Waffle House organization.
The batshit insane tag on Metafilter.
There was a large bolus of sheer incredulity I had to swallow before I was able to accept that, yes, this is in fact a real thing that real people really do at their real jobs.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:41 AM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:41 AM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
The thing about it is, in some ways, it does make sense. Using a napkin on a plate to indicate that a bowl will go there, because the napkin will be needed anyway to keep the bowl from slipping, that's rather smart. Put the cheese slices you'll need on the plate to indicate that cheese will go on the eggs? I kind of admire that!
But just as much is arbitrary nonsense that could be solved as well by having a computer screen for the cook to read, and it's a whole hell of a lot to learn for a job that probably pays minimum wage.
In any case, I don't think our local Waffles House use this system, or if they do I've never noticed it in operation. My brother has done this job, and to think that he might have had to have picked this system up saddens me.
posted by JHarris at 2:53 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
But just as much is arbitrary nonsense that could be solved as well by having a computer screen for the cook to read, and it's a whole hell of a lot to learn for a job that probably pays minimum wage.
In any case, I don't think our local Waffles House use this system, or if they do I've never noticed it in operation. My brother has done this job, and to think that he might have had to have picked this system up saddens me.
posted by JHarris at 2:53 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I had to check other sources to make sure I wasn't just missing the joke. I'm still not 100 percent convinced I'm not being taken in.
One video claims that Waffle House is an official emergency service, so they need a system that will keep working without electricity, and somehow a pencil and paper wouldn't be enough. (I'm imagining "No electricity? No problem! We have evolved a secret language involving slices of cheese and sprinkles of hash brown and the careful arrangement of jelly packets and napkins.")
If it's real, this perverse system had to have started at one location and spread to others as they expanded and moved experienced kitchen staff to new locations. To work well with the boss, you have to know the order system like you know the secret handshake. I wonder if it has dialects?
posted by pracowity at 3:08 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
One video claims that Waffle House is an official emergency service, so they need a system that will keep working without electricity, and somehow a pencil and paper wouldn't be enough. (I'm imagining "No electricity? No problem! We have evolved a secret language involving slices of cheese and sprinkles of hash brown and the careful arrangement of jelly packets and napkins.")
If it's real, this perverse system had to have started at one location and spread to others as they expanded and moved experienced kitchen staff to new locations. To work well with the boss, you have to know the order system like you know the secret handshake. I wonder if it has dialects?
posted by pracowity at 3:08 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
I’m assuming it’s the server who does all this coding when they place the order to the kitchen? This would seem to mean they physically go into the kitchen, set the plates out, and dress the plates with the appropriate codes on each plate for every table order they get. Multiply this by however many servers are working at the time.
When you think about it, in this system, the server is also working as a sort-of assistant cook by adding the necessary tomatoes, cheese, etc. to each plate.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:17 AM on November 11, 2023
When you think about it, in this system, the server is also working as a sort-of assistant cook by adding the necessary tomatoes, cheese, etc. to each plate.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:17 AM on November 11, 2023
This system seems to be one that would be usable by someone who can’t read, and so would not be able to read an order. And given that WH very famously hires felons, many of whom can’t read or maybe can’t read fast enough, this system would be for them.
posted by LizBoBiz at 3:19 AM on November 11, 2023 [59 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 3:19 AM on November 11, 2023 [59 favorites]
Two mayo packs oriented vertically in the bacon position with a sprinkle of cannabis at twelve o’clock indicates to your co-worker to load up the bong and head on back for break.
posted by whatevernot at 3:36 AM on November 11, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 3:36 AM on November 11, 2023 [17 favorites]
“I’m assuming it’s the server who does all this coding when they place the order to the kitchen?”
No, the server has to "call" the "pull" (getting stuff from the walk-in) and subsequently the order using the correct lingo, which is a little difficult, and then the cook "marks" the order on the plate with the coding detailed in the video, which is the batshit insane part.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:52 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
No, the server has to "call" the "pull" (getting stuff from the walk-in) and subsequently the order using the correct lingo, which is a little difficult, and then the cook "marks" the order on the plate with the coding detailed in the video, which is the batshit insane part.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:52 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean....is this any stranger than servers in higher-end restaurants having to know that you need to serve guests from the right, unless it's Russian service where you serve from the left? Or knowing how and when to use a table crumber? Or knowing that if a guest has ordered oysters that you need to fetch an oyster fork, which usually isn't part of the table service, and you also need to prepare any additional condiments? Or that when you set the plate in front of your guest, you need to make sure the meat side is closest to them? Or that you place the wine glasses in the 4 o'clock position if the guests are ordering more wine? Or.....?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:18 AM on November 11, 2023 [36 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:18 AM on November 11, 2023 [36 favorites]
This system seems to be one that would be usable by someone who can’t read, and so would not be able to read an order.
It also doesn't require maintaining an association between a piece of paper and a plate, or a plate and an order number on a screen. Between removing reading and that mapping, the upfront cost of learning the system will be dwarfed by the savings in cognitive load.
posted by hoyland at 4:21 AM on November 11, 2023 [27 favorites]
It also doesn't require maintaining an association between a piece of paper and a plate, or a plate and an order number on a screen. Between removing reading and that mapping, the upfront cost of learning the system will be dwarfed by the savings in cognitive load.
posted by hoyland at 4:21 AM on November 11, 2023 [27 favorites]
You have to wonder how such a system came to be, and why someone didn’t call-out its insanity.
A fundamental truth about any large, insane, complicated system that works is that it started life as a small, simple system that worked and then grew, incrementally adding things that continued to work over time. You can sort of see that here, if you look carefully.
posted by mhoye at 4:33 AM on November 11, 2023 [43 favorites]
A fundamental truth about any large, insane, complicated system that works is that it started life as a small, simple system that worked and then grew, incrementally adding things that continued to work over time. You can sort of see that here, if you look carefully.
posted by mhoye at 4:33 AM on November 11, 2023 [43 favorites]
“I mean....is this any stranger than servers in higher-end restaurants having to know that you need to serve guests from the right, unless it's Russian service where you serve from the left?”
I think so, speaking as someone who served fine-dining and followed all those sorts of rules. Like, "serving from the right" is nothing; do you know how many correct procedures and etiquette there are for opening and pouring wine? It's been almost 40 years and I'm still fussy and snobby about that stuff when I'm dining out. Someone merely refilling a glass of water can be like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. (Even when absolutely appalled, I tip well, because of course I do.)
That stuff is mostly just etiquette, and etiquette doesn't need to make sense or be efficient — sometimes it's quite the opposite.
This isn't some established cultural convention, it's just a particular company's procedures and are about as purely and bluntly functional as things get. And it's not at all apparent that it's especially functional or efficient.
That said, I can imagine a plausible history of the evolution of this system which is reasonable at each step of the way and quite appropriate to its time and place. But the purpose this system serves now is probably more about brand and company culture than anything else. (On edit: or what hoyland just said.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:39 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
I think so, speaking as someone who served fine-dining and followed all those sorts of rules. Like, "serving from the right" is nothing; do you know how many correct procedures and etiquette there are for opening and pouring wine? It's been almost 40 years and I'm still fussy and snobby about that stuff when I'm dining out. Someone merely refilling a glass of water can be like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. (Even when absolutely appalled, I tip well, because of course I do.)
That stuff is mostly just etiquette, and etiquette doesn't need to make sense or be efficient — sometimes it's quite the opposite.
This isn't some established cultural convention, it's just a particular company's procedures and are about as purely and bluntly functional as things get. And it's not at all apparent that it's especially functional or efficient.
That said, I can imagine a plausible history of the evolution of this system which is reasonable at each step of the way and quite appropriate to its time and place. But the purpose this system serves now is probably more about brand and company culture than anything else. (On edit: or what hoyland just said.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:39 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
One video claims that Waffle House is an official emergency service, so they need a system that will keep working without electricity, and somehow a pencil and paper wouldn't be enough.
It's true, and Waffle House itself explains it here:
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [25 favorites]
It's true, and Waffle House itself explains it here:
"Waffle House Inc. has 1,600 restaurants stretching from the mid-Atlantic to Florida and across the Gulf Coast, leaving it particularly vulnerable to hurricanes. Other businesses, of course, strive to reopen as quickly as possible after disasters. But the Waffle House, which spends almost nothing on advertising, has built a marketing strategy around the goodwill gained from being open when customers are most desperate."See also: FEMA's Waffle House Index
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [25 favorites]
it's a whole hell of a lot to learn for a job that probably pays minimum wage
You can spot the people in this thread who've never worked retail or food service.
Y'all, there is no such thing as unskilled labour. There is only undervalued and underappreciated labour. These jobs are hard and they take real skill to learn and do well.
posted by mhoye at 4:43 AM on November 11, 2023 [172 favorites]
You can spot the people in this thread who've never worked retail or food service.
Y'all, there is no such thing as unskilled labour. There is only undervalued and underappreciated labour. These jobs are hard and they take real skill to learn and do well.
posted by mhoye at 4:43 AM on November 11, 2023 [172 favorites]
I am amazed by all the skepticism here. Yes, this is how Waffle House works. I have known several people who have worked at Waffle House and this is the system they all use. I know some of you are from other parts of the world, but those of you in the US should just go to a Waffle House one day and watch.
I’m assuming it’s the server who does all this coding when they place the order to the kitchen? This would seem to mean they physically go into the kitchen, set the plates out, and dress the plates with the appropriate codes on each plate for every table order they get. Multiply this by however many servers are working at the time.
When you think about it, in this system, the server is also working as a sort-of assistant cook by adding the necessary tomatoes, cheese, etc. to each plate.
Waffle Houses don't have a kitchen. There are tables along the outside wall, a counter, and a griddle right behind it (there are only two floor plans for WH and they are mirror images). The server takes the order and then immediately turns and calls it to the cook, who then places the items and the plates while the order is being called.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:44 AM on November 11, 2023 [34 favorites]
I’m assuming it’s the server who does all this coding when they place the order to the kitchen? This would seem to mean they physically go into the kitchen, set the plates out, and dress the plates with the appropriate codes on each plate for every table order they get. Multiply this by however many servers are working at the time.
When you think about it, in this system, the server is also working as a sort-of assistant cook by adding the necessary tomatoes, cheese, etc. to each plate.
Waffle Houses don't have a kitchen. There are tables along the outside wall, a counter, and a griddle right behind it (there are only two floor plans for WH and they are mirror images). The server takes the order and then immediately turns and calls it to the cook, who then places the items and the plates while the order is being called.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:44 AM on November 11, 2023 [34 favorites]
To add: I've worked on food service technology, and I admire the WH system.
Do craps dealers in Vegas write down each bet on a piece of paper as chips are flying around and up to 8 people on a side are calling out dozens of different possible bets? Nope. The placement of the chips on the felt tells them everything. And everyone else in the room can see it too. Boxman, floor boss, cameras, etc. It costs nothing, needs no supplies, doesn't depend on handwriting clarity, and it's universal. I admire the jelly packets the same way. We don't need to throw technology at everything.
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:51 AM on November 11, 2023 [56 favorites]
Do craps dealers in Vegas write down each bet on a piece of paper as chips are flying around and up to 8 people on a side are calling out dozens of different possible bets? Nope. The placement of the chips on the felt tells them everything. And everyone else in the room can see it too. Boxman, floor boss, cameras, etc. It costs nothing, needs no supplies, doesn't depend on handwriting clarity, and it's universal. I admire the jelly packets the same way. We don't need to throw technology at everything.
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:51 AM on November 11, 2023 [56 favorites]
I can get behind most of this, especially considering it as an evolved system, except for the part where you indicate "no butter on the toast" by...putting a pack of butter on the plate. Up until then, it was mostly "for $THING, either put $THING/an associated object on the plate, or else use this arbitrary condiment placement configuration" but "negative butter" is just bananas.
My other biggest issue is, does nobody ever bump a plate? Two jelly packets on top of each other mean something different than two jelly packets next to each other, and if the whole marker slides to another part of the plate you get the wrong eggs.
posted by itsatextfile at 4:55 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
My other biggest issue is, does nobody ever bump a plate? Two jelly packets on top of each other mean something different than two jelly packets next to each other, and if the whole marker slides to another part of the plate you get the wrong eggs.
posted by itsatextfile at 4:55 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
It makes sense to me. My first job was at a Burger King, a job I did for over two years. Our system had the capability for kitchen printers but we didn’t use that. The rule was “pull your wraps.” What that meant was that when an order was called back, you would take the appropriate wrapper and put it on the left side of the prep table. Someone calls back a whopper with cheese, no Mayo or onion, you pull a whopper wrap, mark the cheese icon, cross out the Mayo and onion icons, and put it on the stack. You worked through your stack that way and it was a lot quicker than reading a printout or screen. That system might not make sense in larger restaurants but for something small especially like a Waffle House, it can make perfect sense once you’ve learned it.
posted by azpenguin at 4:57 AM on November 11, 2023 [28 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 4:57 AM on November 11, 2023 [28 favorites]
If you want to see batshit insane, watch how they do it at a Michelin-starred restaurant. (Scene from The Bear, no spoilers, but based on the real life 2-star restaurant Ever in Chicago)
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:20 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:20 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
Jinx hydropsyche on preview!
Yeah, for those who have never been in a Waffle House, there is no "in the kitchen" - all the cooking and most of the prep is right out in the open. (Which you can see if you scroll earlier in the video.) While there's some variation in how many counter seats and booths there are, all WH are set up pretty much the same. They're all rectangles with the middle third of one of the long sides being the grill and prep area. There's a long "L" counter that separates the grill area from the patrons, with some solo seating at the counter & the register. On the short side away from the main street are bathrooms and storage, the rest of the place is seating. Also Waffle Houses are tiny. (Source - I have been to multiple Waffle Houses in multiple states.)
So it's not like this marking system has to work in the bowels of a building far away from the rest of the staff - everyone involved in your order is right there so if the cook gets lost or confused there's immediate backup. Also I strongly suspect that the verbal communication in the Pull and Drop part is equally as important as the plate marking. I've been to plenty of non-WH diners where the cook is operating off illegible scribbles on an order pad and a bunch of yelling, I'd bet that keeping a running tally of what goes where in your short term memory is a skill that you develop pretty quickly as a short order cook.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:20 AM on November 11, 2023 [15 favorites]
Yeah, for those who have never been in a Waffle House, there is no "in the kitchen" - all the cooking and most of the prep is right out in the open. (Which you can see if you scroll earlier in the video.) While there's some variation in how many counter seats and booths there are, all WH are set up pretty much the same. They're all rectangles with the middle third of one of the long sides being the grill and prep area. There's a long "L" counter that separates the grill area from the patrons, with some solo seating at the counter & the register. On the short side away from the main street are bathrooms and storage, the rest of the place is seating. Also Waffle Houses are tiny. (Source - I have been to multiple Waffle Houses in multiple states.)
So it's not like this marking system has to work in the bowels of a building far away from the rest of the staff - everyone involved in your order is right there so if the cook gets lost or confused there's immediate backup. Also I strongly suspect that the verbal communication in the Pull and Drop part is equally as important as the plate marking. I've been to plenty of non-WH diners where the cook is operating off illegible scribbles on an order pad and a bunch of yelling, I'd bet that keeping a running tally of what goes where in your short term memory is a skill that you develop pretty quickly as a short order cook.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:20 AM on November 11, 2023 [15 favorites]
"Sorry, you cannot have extra eggs."
"Oh, some kind of egg shortage?"
"No, we are out of mustard packets."
posted by Meatbomb at 5:20 AM on November 11, 2023 [19 favorites]
"Oh, some kind of egg shortage?"
"No, we are out of mustard packets."
posted by Meatbomb at 5:20 AM on November 11, 2023 [19 favorites]
And, if they run out of apple butter packets, nobody will get raisin toast. The system does have its own failure points.
posted by gimonca at 5:24 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by gimonca at 5:24 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Between removing reading and that mapping, the upfront cost of learning the system will be dwarfed by the savings in cognitive load.
b-but... it's just another form of note-taking? The orders are marked by placing objects instead of on a pad or a screen? Other than that some of the items needed for an order are right there on the plate (which is rather clever), I don't see how it's different, except that it trades the general skill of reading for a highly-specific one that won't transfer well outside of the syrup-laced air of the Waffle Walls.
It's also extremely specific to the current menu of a Waffle House. If the company ever decides that (ugh) grits are not a default part of an eggs order, then all of their cooks will have to incorporate the change into their marking system, instead of just the laminated placemat menus.
(I have never been able to abide "grits." I understand many people, including many here, love them, but they are highly unpleasant to me. "Mmmm, corn slurry! They look like someone was sick, just the way I like 'em!")
posted by JHarris at 5:47 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
b-but... it's just another form of note-taking? The orders are marked by placing objects instead of on a pad or a screen? Other than that some of the items needed for an order are right there on the plate (which is rather clever), I don't see how it's different, except that it trades the general skill of reading for a highly-specific one that won't transfer well outside of the syrup-laced air of the Waffle Walls.
It's also extremely specific to the current menu of a Waffle House. If the company ever decides that (ugh) grits are not a default part of an eggs order, then all of their cooks will have to incorporate the change into their marking system, instead of just the laminated placemat menus.
(I have never been able to abide "grits." I understand many people, including many here, love them, but they are highly unpleasant to me. "Mmmm, corn slurry! They look like someone was sick, just the way I like 'em!")
posted by JHarris at 5:47 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
no butter on the toast doesn't mean the customer doesn't want butter at all; putting the butter cup on the plate in this instance makes perfect sense.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:49 AM on November 11, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:49 AM on November 11, 2023 [22 favorites]
>Up until then, it was mostly "for $THING, either put $THING/an associated object on the plate, or else use this arbitrary condiment placement configuration" but "negative butter" is just bananas.
It's a catch-22... if they run out of butter packs, they can't mark anyone's order as not having butter.
posted by JHarris at 5:52 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
It's a catch-22... if they run out of butter packs, they can't mark anyone's order as not having butter.
posted by JHarris at 5:52 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm just here for the funny YouTube comments
shout out to "the customer ordered an omelette, so I move my jelly packet to the defensive position"
posted by Baethan at 5:57 AM on November 11, 2023 [21 favorites]
shout out to "the customer ordered an omelette, so I move my jelly packet to the defensive position"
posted by Baethan at 5:57 AM on November 11, 2023 [21 favorites]
(I have never been able to abide "grits."
Grits are basically a delivery medium for butter salt and pepper.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:57 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
Grits are basically a delivery medium for butter salt and pepper.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:57 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
It's a catch-22... if they run out of butter packs, they can't mark anyone's order as not having butter.
Thus Waffle House‘s logistical powerhouse and famous disaster resilience- the system has to work, so they make sure they never run out of butter.
posted by zamboni at 6:05 AM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
Thus Waffle House‘s logistical powerhouse and famous disaster resilience- the system has to work, so they make sure they never run out of butter.
posted by zamboni at 6:05 AM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
You can spot the people in this thread who've never worked retail or food service.
Count me also as someone who can tell that a lot of people here have never worked retail or food service. (Especially as an adult.)
Waffle House is a fucking well-run machine, more so than most restaurants of that ilk. I'd trust a Waffle House and the way it does things over people who love to find fault with something that codes as blue collar.
(I miss Waffle House. It's such a distinct part of my Southern upbringing. I try to hit one up every time I go back to visit my family.)
posted by Kitteh at 6:11 AM on November 11, 2023 [34 favorites]
Count me also as someone who can tell that a lot of people here have never worked retail or food service. (Especially as an adult.)
Waffle House is a fucking well-run machine, more so than most restaurants of that ilk. I'd trust a Waffle House and the way it does things over people who love to find fault with something that codes as blue collar.
(I miss Waffle House. It's such a distinct part of my Southern upbringing. I try to hit one up every time I go back to visit my family.)
posted by Kitteh at 6:11 AM on November 11, 2023 [34 favorites]
This seems crazy, and I'd go crazy trying to learn it, but it definitely solves the problem of "which ticket goes with which plate" which you need some kind of a system for (helps if you have enough space to line them up), unless you are strictly cooking one order at a time.
posted by thefool at 6:13 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by thefool at 6:13 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
In so far as many of these markers get removed from the plates before they are served I wonder if they just use the same few mustard packs or butter pats over and over again to mark plates? It feels like it might get unsanitary over time.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:13 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 6:13 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
there is no unskilled labor.
working as a line cook through high school and college, the timing of orders was always much harder than remembering the tickets. if people think this is hard, stick to washing dishes! Dishwashing is the job for dreamers.
posted by eustatic at 6:15 AM on November 11, 2023 [27 favorites]
working as a line cook through high school and college, the timing of orders was always much harder than remembering the tickets. if people think this is hard, stick to washing dishes! Dishwashing is the job for dreamers.
posted by eustatic at 6:15 AM on November 11, 2023 [27 favorites]
Waffle Houses don't have a kitchen. There are tables along the outside wall, a counter, and a griddle right behind it (there are only two floor plans for WH and they are mirror images). The server takes the order and then immediately turns and calls it to the cook, who then places the items and the plates while the order is being called.
I love sitting at the counter at Waffle House so I can watch the system happen. When things are busy, it's really fun to watch.
When I was in grad school, my now-wife and I ate a lot of breakfasts at a nearby, old-school diner. There, you'd give your order to the waitress based on the menu descriptions ("two eggs over easy, hashbrowns, hold the toast") and she would pivot and yell it out in code to the guy at the grill. There were three waitresses, and they'd all yell orders in code as they got them, and grill guy somehow kept them in his head and made them all in order. To the comment above about all work being skilled: that guy was crazy skilled and just plain operated in the zone for the full breakfast rush. Once in a while an order would get garbled and mess up his system and he'd have a blowup, then get right back to the grill.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:23 AM on November 11, 2023 [13 favorites]
I love sitting at the counter at Waffle House so I can watch the system happen. When things are busy, it's really fun to watch.
When I was in grad school, my now-wife and I ate a lot of breakfasts at a nearby, old-school diner. There, you'd give your order to the waitress based on the menu descriptions ("two eggs over easy, hashbrowns, hold the toast") and she would pivot and yell it out in code to the guy at the grill. There were three waitresses, and they'd all yell orders in code as they got them, and grill guy somehow kept them in his head and made them all in order. To the comment above about all work being skilled: that guy was crazy skilled and just plain operated in the zone for the full breakfast rush. Once in a while an order would get garbled and mess up his system and he'd have a blowup, then get right back to the grill.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:23 AM on November 11, 2023 [13 favorites]
Dishwashing REQUIRES pro dreamers, especially in places that won't let you play any music or anything. I'm good at spacing out while working but would hit a dreaming wall within five hours. Doing that full-time, long-term, is a special kind of skill.
Also DO NOT DREAM while bringing plates to the line
Narrowly escaped with my life when I smashed a stack of plate bowls that one time
posted by Baethan at 6:23 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
Also DO NOT DREAM while bringing plates to the line
Narrowly escaped with my life when I smashed a stack of plate bowls that one time
posted by Baethan at 6:23 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
I’ve learned a lot about fellow MeFi-ites reading this thread, and also I think I might hit up Waffle House this weekend.
Yes, this is how it works; no, it’s not performative like tossing fish around a Seattle market; yes, it’s complicated: tip well!
We marvel at the cleverness of train conductors pointing with their fingers to ensure they don’t skip a step in their processes, but don’t see the parallels to having cooks signify they’ve correctly heard and remember the orders with physical actions? It’s smart, and cheap, and it works.
posted by pwinn at 6:29 AM on November 11, 2023 [26 favorites]
Yes, this is how it works; no, it’s not performative like tossing fish around a Seattle market; yes, it’s complicated: tip well!
We marvel at the cleverness of train conductors pointing with their fingers to ensure they don’t skip a step in their processes, but don’t see the parallels to having cooks signify they’ve correctly heard and remember the orders with physical actions? It’s smart, and cheap, and it works.
posted by pwinn at 6:29 AM on November 11, 2023 [26 favorites]
"negative butter" is just bananas
The alternative--coating the entire plate in butter, and carving out a small clean area to indicate no-butter--resulted in millions of dollars worth of broken dishes.
posted by mittens at 6:30 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
The alternative--coating the entire plate in butter, and carving out a small clean area to indicate no-butter--resulted in millions of dollars worth of broken dishes.
posted by mittens at 6:30 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
all the cooking and most of the prep is right out in the open
The consequence of this is hearing the cook coming on duty complain, "Gross, this is effing disgusting. I guess no one ever cleans this grill," while you're eating the food just cooked on it. That same visit a server lady, who was obviously sick, was coughing on some guy's plate. "Do you mind?" He asked. I'll never forget her comeback/threat: "How would you like my lunch to be your lunch?" I don't think I've ever gone there and not heard a conversation about a restraining order. Love the food, though, and they do typically get my order right, which is a testament to their "system."
posted by jabah at 6:30 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
The consequence of this is hearing the cook coming on duty complain, "Gross, this is effing disgusting. I guess no one ever cleans this grill," while you're eating the food just cooked on it. That same visit a server lady, who was obviously sick, was coughing on some guy's plate. "Do you mind?" He asked. I'll never forget her comeback/threat: "How would you like my lunch to be your lunch?" I don't think I've ever gone there and not heard a conversation about a restraining order. Love the food, though, and they do typically get my order right, which is a testament to their "system."
posted by jabah at 6:30 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I want to see the part where they are trained to handle flying chairs, plates etc.
posted by james33 at 6:50 AM on November 11, 2023
posted by james33 at 6:50 AM on November 11, 2023
This is real and it works. I worked at Awful House (as many of us called it) for years.
The server (salesperson, in WH lingo) takes the order. They then stand in one of two specific places, and begin calling the order. The cook ( grill operator) marks the plates and pulls the meats from the coolers as the server calls them, and then reads the entire order from the plates back to the server to check for accuracy.
The reason this works better than tickets is not because of illiteracy. (Sometimes the classism here...)
It works because while you are marking the plates, the food you are already cooking does not get suspended in time - you are flipping eggs, pulling waffles, etc while you are marking plates for the third next table you are going to feed. You do not have time to puzzle out the handwriting of between 2-4 servers while cooking meals that take at most 7.5 minutes to complete for up to fifty people while doing your best to make sure each tables meals come off the line simultaneously.
If you are the cook during the afternoon/evening shift, you are cooking food while doing prep for the next 24 hours. Cutting veggies, making batter, stocking the front Coolers with that days pull from the storage areas that are locked when the manager is not on site. Or if you are the overnight cook, you are cooking food while doing a lot of cleaning.
Waffle House does not only employ felons. It also employs many high school and college students - a big draw is that every shift you get one serving of low tier meats (bacon, sausage, hamburger) and as much as you want of almost anything else. (exceptions in my day were pie, meats like chicken, pork chops, steak.) So employees can eat all their calories for the day before during and after their shift.
I'm not singing praises - like any capitalist enterprise, WH is a machine that uses people up.
posted by Vigilant at 6:53 AM on November 11, 2023 [101 favorites]
The server (salesperson, in WH lingo) takes the order. They then stand in one of two specific places, and begin calling the order. The cook ( grill operator) marks the plates and pulls the meats from the coolers as the server calls them, and then reads the entire order from the plates back to the server to check for accuracy.
The reason this works better than tickets is not because of illiteracy. (Sometimes the classism here...)
It works because while you are marking the plates, the food you are already cooking does not get suspended in time - you are flipping eggs, pulling waffles, etc while you are marking plates for the third next table you are going to feed. You do not have time to puzzle out the handwriting of between 2-4 servers while cooking meals that take at most 7.5 minutes to complete for up to fifty people while doing your best to make sure each tables meals come off the line simultaneously.
If you are the cook during the afternoon/evening shift, you are cooking food while doing prep for the next 24 hours. Cutting veggies, making batter, stocking the front Coolers with that days pull from the storage areas that are locked when the manager is not on site. Or if you are the overnight cook, you are cooking food while doing a lot of cleaning.
Waffle House does not only employ felons. It also employs many high school and college students - a big draw is that every shift you get one serving of low tier meats (bacon, sausage, hamburger) and as much as you want of almost anything else. (exceptions in my day were pie, meats like chicken, pork chops, steak.) So employees can eat all their calories for the day before during and after their shift.
I'm not singing praises - like any capitalist enterprise, WH is a machine that uses people up.
posted by Vigilant at 6:53 AM on November 11, 2023 [101 favorites]
Grits . . . They look like someone was sick.
Russian Salad for the added chunks.
posted by BobTheScientist at 6:55 AM on November 11, 2023
Russian Salad for the added chunks.
posted by BobTheScientist at 6:55 AM on November 11, 2023
Oh, and staying open during hurricane? It's a wild experience.
posted by Vigilant at 7:03 AM on November 11, 2023 [31 favorites]
posted by Vigilant at 7:03 AM on November 11, 2023 [31 favorites]
My other biggest issue is, does nobody ever bump a plate? Two jelly packets on top of each other mean something different than two jelly packets next to each other, and if the whole marker slides to another part of the plate you get the wrong eggs.
Yeah, this is what jumped out at me. Plates are slidey. It wouldn't take much to turn "4 scrambled eggs" (2 stacked jelly packs at 6 o'clock) into "2 overmedium eggs with extra toast" (2 unstacked jelly packs in the middle).
posted by jackbishop at 7:03 AM on November 11, 2023
Yeah, this is what jumped out at me. Plates are slidey. It wouldn't take much to turn "4 scrambled eggs" (2 stacked jelly packs at 6 o'clock) into "2 overmedium eggs with extra toast" (2 unstacked jelly packs in the middle).
posted by jackbishop at 7:03 AM on November 11, 2023
The markers are a memory aid, but it's not everything. When moving plates along the line, you glance at them first, move, then adjust. But you still have to recall where each table order begins and ends, and there are some things there just isn't a marker for (like say, a waffle with pecans in only half, or the occasional customer who cannot mayo their own BLT, so you have to remember that.
I didn't actually learn the marker system till I had been cooking for over a year - I had an excellent short term memory and would just memorize every order as it came in. I was kinda snobby about it, actually, until it was pointed out to me that on really busy shifts when I had another cook that we would be a better team with a shared reference point. So I grudgingly learned it, and also learned it was less stressful to not have rely on perfect recall.
posted by Vigilant at 7:13 AM on November 11, 2023 [49 favorites]
I didn't actually learn the marker system till I had been cooking for over a year - I had an excellent short term memory and would just memorize every order as it came in. I was kinda snobby about it, actually, until it was pointed out to me that on really busy shifts when I had another cook that we would be a better team with a shared reference point. So I grudgingly learned it, and also learned it was less stressful to not have rely on perfect recall.
posted by Vigilant at 7:13 AM on November 11, 2023 [49 favorites]
You know this is an insane system because literally no other restaurant on earth does anything like it.
It’s like Libertarian philosophy. You can rationalize it and explain it and defend it but what you CAN’T do is point to a single city, state, or nation that has adopted it at any time in history.
posted by chronkite at 7:31 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
It’s like Libertarian philosophy. You can rationalize it and explain it and defend it but what you CAN’T do is point to a single city, state, or nation that has adopted it at any time in history.
posted by chronkite at 7:31 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
You know this is an insane system because literally no other restaurant on earth does anything like it.
I spent 15 years in restaurant kitchens, working in everything from college town pizza joints to very high end fine dining.
Every restaurant has some kind of weird system like this. Every single one of them. It's just that Waffle House had the good sense to codify it so that it was the same across the franchise.
Someone upthread mentioned how they were taught to "mark their wrappers" while working in a fast food restaurant. The fact that those wrappers had those markings on them is proof that someone spent a lot of time figuring out the best way to handle those requests. If you look at the wrappers for any item you get from any fast food restaurant, they have those markers / labels on them.
It's the same kind of system that Waffle House uses, just done a bit differently. Waffle House doesn't have wrappers, but they have plates.
Restaurants are complex systems that require a lot of thought around how to make them work efficiently. The system may not make sense to someone on the outside, but it makes perfect sense to the folks using it.
And yeah, it's really obvious some folks here have never worked food service or retail.
posted by ralan at 7:45 AM on November 11, 2023 [64 favorites]
I spent 15 years in restaurant kitchens, working in everything from college town pizza joints to very high end fine dining.
Every restaurant has some kind of weird system like this. Every single one of them. It's just that Waffle House had the good sense to codify it so that it was the same across the franchise.
Someone upthread mentioned how they were taught to "mark their wrappers" while working in a fast food restaurant. The fact that those wrappers had those markings on them is proof that someone spent a lot of time figuring out the best way to handle those requests. If you look at the wrappers for any item you get from any fast food restaurant, they have those markers / labels on them.
It's the same kind of system that Waffle House uses, just done a bit differently. Waffle House doesn't have wrappers, but they have plates.
Restaurants are complex systems that require a lot of thought around how to make them work efficiently. The system may not make sense to someone on the outside, but it makes perfect sense to the folks using it.
And yeah, it's really obvious some folks here have never worked food service or retail.
posted by ralan at 7:45 AM on November 11, 2023 [64 favorites]
You know this is an insane system because literally no other restaurant on earth does anything like it.
I experienced a variation of this at the Pool Grill on a Viking cruise. Simple menu with five workers behind the line. You'd line up, tell the first cook behind the counter your order, they would verbalize important parts so the other cooks could prepare then put out plates with various markers (buns, bread, pickles, etc.) and each cook down the line knew which plates got what from their station. Order separation wasn't needed, nor was paying.
posted by achrise at 7:47 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I experienced a variation of this at the Pool Grill on a Viking cruise. Simple menu with five workers behind the line. You'd line up, tell the first cook behind the counter your order, they would verbalize important parts so the other cooks could prepare then put out plates with various markers (buns, bread, pickles, etc.) and each cook down the line knew which plates got what from their station. Order separation wasn't needed, nor was paying.
posted by achrise at 7:47 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Y'all, there is no such thing as unskilled labour. There is only undervalued and underappreciated labour. These jobs are hard and they take real skill to learn and do well.
If you're hired off the street with an irrelevant, unverifiable, or no work history, you are probably working a job class that's considered unskilled. It has nothing to do with the difficulty or complexity of the job which you're employed to do, which may in fact be very mentally or physically taxing. It isn't a description of the laborer. It's a description of the employer practice.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:48 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
If you're hired off the street with an irrelevant, unverifiable, or no work history, you are probably working a job class that's considered unskilled. It has nothing to do with the difficulty or complexity of the job which you're employed to do, which may in fact be very mentally or physically taxing. It isn't a description of the laborer. It's a description of the employer practice.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:48 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Fast food training videos are one of my favorite things on YouTube. I'm particularly partial to this Hardee's training video
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:56 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:56 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
If the customer wants sourdough toast, rotate the jelly pack 15 degrees clockwise. But, be careful! A jelly pack rotated 15 degrees counter-clockwise indicates the customer has been spotted ordering breakfast at a Denny's, and should be carefully eliminated.
posted by xedrik at 8:12 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by xedrik at 8:12 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm just here to be an unabashed Waffle House stan. In the rural south, they are cathedrals, salvation for the weary and sanctuary for the weirdos.
They are almost always the only 24 hour place in rural America, especially these days. Work 3rd shift and need breakfast on your way into work at 10pm? Waffle House. Teenagers looking for somewhere to sip coffee and hang out after a game or a movie? Waffle House. I've had steak and eggs at WH at 3am hanging out with friends that ranks among the central experiences of my life. I've dropped my kid off at a Waffle House after strike of a local community theater production and watched her bounce in with a dozen other teens at midnight still in full stage makeup, and the employees give them caffeine and hash browns (scattered, chunked, covered please) and let them sit and chatter as long as they need to.
Yes, this is a real system. And yes, people really learn it, and use it. And thank whatever gods may be for them.
posted by griffey at 8:18 AM on November 11, 2023 [34 favorites]
They are almost always the only 24 hour place in rural America, especially these days. Work 3rd shift and need breakfast on your way into work at 10pm? Waffle House. Teenagers looking for somewhere to sip coffee and hang out after a game or a movie? Waffle House. I've had steak and eggs at WH at 3am hanging out with friends that ranks among the central experiences of my life. I've dropped my kid off at a Waffle House after strike of a local community theater production and watched her bounce in with a dozen other teens at midnight still in full stage makeup, and the employees give them caffeine and hash browns (scattered, chunked, covered please) and let them sit and chatter as long as they need to.
Yes, this is a real system. And yes, people really learn it, and use it. And thank whatever gods may be for them.
posted by griffey at 8:18 AM on November 11, 2023 [34 favorites]
Wow, almost 7 minutes in and they’ve just covered the egg plate. My favorite line: “So what if a customer wants double toast? Easy!” (It’s a second packet of jelly beside the first one). This seems like a decent system and if you’ve worked there a long time, second nature. But starting off, it would be pretty rough. On the other hand, it’s not that big a deal to ask someone to remind you what packet to use if someone wants cinnamon toast.
My restaurant experience is Dennys and Friendlys level circa 1990s and I don’t remember much of this kind of thing. But, some of the fine dining rules mentioned above seem as goofy to me as the stuff in this video seems to others (though I imagine most of all of this is pretty goofy to most of us, because it is. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.)
posted by Glinn at 8:23 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
My restaurant experience is Dennys and Friendlys level circa 1990s and I don’t remember much of this kind of thing. But, some of the fine dining rules mentioned above seem as goofy to me as the stuff in this video seems to others (though I imagine most of all of this is pretty goofy to most of us, because it is. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.)
posted by Glinn at 8:23 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
The Magic of the Short Order Cook...
posted by jim in austin at 8:37 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 8:37 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just realized, watching the rest, that they had not covered the egg plate at all, just the sides. It went a little increasingly crazy, but manageable if annoying. New favorite line: “Don’t let this mayo pack confuse you. As long as you see two pickles on the plate, you know this is a sandwich.”
I did not know triple hashbrowns was a thing.
posted by Glinn at 8:46 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I did not know triple hashbrowns was a thing.
posted by Glinn at 8:46 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
One other thing worth mentioning - this is a job that at times can turn into pure chaos. Learning and using a system like this can keep you on the ball when everything is batshit bonkers around you.
posted by azpenguin at 8:50 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 8:50 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
There's a great scene in Alexis Hall's book For Real where one of the main characters, a short order cook at a "caff," gets called in to work and arrives to find his incompetent coworkers have let the place go to absolute chaos. His lover shows up to help out, and the story of how they straighten things out is just about perfect.
For Real is also the best book I've ever read, hands-down, a total outlier, about BDSM. Come for the bondage, stay for the fascinating and engaging story about getting a diner back on track after a complete meltdown.
posted by Well I never at 9:03 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
For Real is also the best book I've ever read, hands-down, a total outlier, about BDSM. Come for the bondage, stay for the fascinating and engaging story about getting a diner back on track after a complete meltdown.
posted by Well I never at 9:03 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
If you're hired off the street with an irrelevant, unverifiable, or no work history, you are probably working a job class that's considered unskilled. It has nothing to do with the difficulty or complexity of the job which you're employed to do, which may in fact be very mentally or physically taxing. It isn't a description of the laborer. It's a description of the employer practice.
Recognizing that "unskilled" is the commonly-used term, I dislike it because it is both inaccurate and pejorative. The kinds of jobs that are described that way are mostly low-paid jobs with minimal or no education or certification requirements. Some jobs really are unskilled in the sense that basically any person could do the work with an hour of training, but mostly they require a lot of skill and experience. Personally, I'd like to see the term fade away and be replaced by something more accurate to both the worker and the job.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:05 AM on November 11, 2023 [26 favorites]
Recognizing that "unskilled" is the commonly-used term, I dislike it because it is both inaccurate and pejorative. The kinds of jobs that are described that way are mostly low-paid jobs with minimal or no education or certification requirements. Some jobs really are unskilled in the sense that basically any person could do the work with an hour of training, but mostly they require a lot of skill and experience. Personally, I'd like to see the term fade away and be replaced by something more accurate to both the worker and the job.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:05 AM on November 11, 2023 [26 favorites]
My partner grew up in the South and grew up going to Waffle House. As a customer, I was won over by the amount of shredded potato that was served. They pointed out the fact that the servers just shout out the order to the cooks and I was agog. This system makes that fact more comprehensible!
Thank you Vigilant for sharing your own experiences of Awful House.
p.s. Big thumbs up to the Waffle House near Richmond that had a big sign on the door: NO PHONE ORDERS, take out must be ordered in person.
I assume that during the height of the pandemic they might have switched things up but in 2019 it was a sensible and worker-considerate policy for such a high volume restaurant. Like I think about that Waffle House every time I read about Starbucks workers who are swamped by online/app orders that have ultra customizations.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:18 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
Thank you Vigilant for sharing your own experiences of Awful House.
p.s. Big thumbs up to the Waffle House near Richmond that had a big sign on the door: NO PHONE ORDERS, take out must be ordered in person.
I assume that during the height of the pandemic they might have switched things up but in 2019 it was a sensible and worker-considerate policy for such a high volume restaurant. Like I think about that Waffle House every time I read about Starbucks workers who are swamped by online/app orders that have ultra customizations.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:18 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's not like the new hire is shown the video and expected to be able to do everything immediately. For one thing, most people when first hired are not able to flip eggs or omelets without considerable practice.
The new cook is shown the video. Then for a few days they shadow the manager as the manager cooks for the morning shift. Then they will be the second cook for the busy weekend morning shifts. Once they have a basic grasp and the manager is satisfied that they are able to produce reasonably edible food, they're generally placed on the slowest overnight shifts, generally Sunday night through Wednesday night along with an experienced server. It is useful to note that the experienced servers as a general rule can do all of the cooking except for flipping eggs, and sometimes even that, so the server can continue the training of the cook. As the cook improves, they will slowly be assigned busier shifts.
I started off as a server. But my cook on those third shifts was the partyboy son of the district manager. He would come in, wait until the store manager left after shift change, and go to sleep on the break table in back. So I learned to cook, and got good enough at it to step in when the second shift cook moved away.
posted by Vigilant at 9:21 AM on November 11, 2023 [39 favorites]
The new cook is shown the video. Then for a few days they shadow the manager as the manager cooks for the morning shift. Then they will be the second cook for the busy weekend morning shifts. Once they have a basic grasp and the manager is satisfied that they are able to produce reasonably edible food, they're generally placed on the slowest overnight shifts, generally Sunday night through Wednesday night along with an experienced server. It is useful to note that the experienced servers as a general rule can do all of the cooking except for flipping eggs, and sometimes even that, so the server can continue the training of the cook. As the cook improves, they will slowly be assigned busier shifts.
I started off as a server. But my cook on those third shifts was the partyboy son of the district manager. He would come in, wait until the store manager left after shift change, and go to sleep on the break table in back. So I learned to cook, and got good enough at it to step in when the second shift cook moved away.
posted by Vigilant at 9:21 AM on November 11, 2023 [39 favorites]
Oh man. Everyone talking shit about waffle house or they think this is fake or their place doesn't... Ya. It does. They do. You're all wrong.
I love the waffle house and admire their efficiency. They absolutely use this system in everyone of the dozens if not hundreds I've eaten in.
posted by chasles at 9:28 AM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
I love the waffle house and admire their efficiency. They absolutely use this system in everyone of the dozens if not hundreds I've eaten in.
posted by chasles at 9:28 AM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
I can get behind most of this, especially considering it as an evolved system, except for the part where you indicate "no butter on the toast" by...putting a pack of butter on the plate.
That makes total sense. The customer wants the toast dry, but they also want butter to put on the toast. So there it is, the butter packet that they will use! I'm on team "don't butter my toast for me" and approve of this system.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:40 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
That makes total sense. The customer wants the toast dry, but they also want butter to put on the toast. So there it is, the butter packet that they will use! I'm on team "don't butter my toast for me" and approve of this system.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:40 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
I live in the eastern suburbs of Atlanta, and according to Google Maps there are 10 Waffle Houses within a 15 minute drive in any direction. Looking at the map, I've eaten at 5 of those.
I know where I'm going for breakfast tomorrow morning.
posted by ralan at 9:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
I know where I'm going for breakfast tomorrow morning.
posted by ralan at 9:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
And since it hasn't been posted yet, if you haven't yet seen Anthony Bourdain being introduced to the Waffle House for the first time by chef Sean Brock (a truly fantastic southern chef and someone who's food you should eat whenever you have a chance), you should. Bourdain, as with so many things, was absolutely correct in his assessment.
posted by griffey at 9:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by griffey at 9:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [18 favorites]
IMO the big shock here isn't the whole "we put things on the plate to represent what later goes onto the plate" system, but that grape jelly is used to represent eggs, which I just think is unbelievably hideous. That's like using bubble gum to represent gravy, or a travel size tube of mint toothpaste to represent orange juice. Ugh.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 9:47 AM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 9:47 AM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
Nothing about this is shocking or hideous. It is a system for marking orders using the items at the disposal of the staff. Waffle House, like Taco Bell, exceeds at using a minimum of different ingredients to produce a wide variety of delicious foodstuffs and it 100% follows that they would apply the same efficiency to their workflow.
I love Waffles House, and this video makes me love it more.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:52 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
I love Waffles House, and this video makes me love it more.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:52 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Up until a year ago, I lived 1/2 mile from the 1st Waffle House in Avondale Estates, GA, which is now the Waffle House museum. We're 5 miles away now. I have only ever seen it open once. One day, I will get to visit the Waffle House museum.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:00 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 10:00 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
hydropsyche, set your calendar! “Museum Open House!!! December 9th, 11am-2pm”
posted by Callisto Prime at 10:10 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Callisto Prime at 10:10 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
(spoilers for a 3-year-old puzzle hunt)
No way to do this without spoilers but I first came across the code as part of one of the greatest AHA moments we've had as a puzzling team: Breakfast Menu, 2020 MIT Mystery Hunt. Absolutely worth looking at if you like crazy puzzles.posted by range at 10:46 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Thank you to seanmpuckett and grumpybear for explaining my butter error, I stand corrected! No fooling this has relieved some 2nd hand anxiety for me.
posted by itsatextfile at 10:53 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by itsatextfile at 10:53 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
range I don't even know how to start parsing that puzzle!
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:00 AM on November 11, 2023
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:00 AM on November 11, 2023
(there is a "solution" link in the upper right corner of the puzzle page for full explanation. Mystery Hunt puzzles are always (minimum) a puzzle inside another puzzle, with no instructions. I'll try not to derail further, all labor is skilled labor, the code is amazing, go team Waffle House)
posted by range at 11:23 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by range at 11:23 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Like I think about that Waffle House every time I read about Starbucks workers who are swamped by online/app orders that have ultra customizations.
I'd like to think some joker showed up at a Waffle House counter and ordered two eggs with 120 jelly packets and coffee with four creamers and six sugars and twelve shots of vanilla (because they saw it on TikTok)...and got promptly kicked in the ass and shown the door.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:36 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'd like to think some joker showed up at a Waffle House counter and ordered two eggs with 120 jelly packets and coffee with four creamers and six sugars and twelve shots of vanilla (because they saw it on TikTok)...and got promptly kicked in the ass and shown the door.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:36 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm just delighted to realize that they are literally using hashing* to encode and decode customer orders
*decorating the plates with little bits of hashbrown
posted by eponym at 12:24 PM on November 11, 2023 [20 favorites]
*decorating the plates with little bits of hashbrown
posted by eponym at 12:24 PM on November 11, 2023 [20 favorites]
So, I have never been in a Waffle House - but I've always wanted to.
But I have worked in kitchens and I know how chaotic they can get, I definitely think this whole system is totally bat shit insane.
For starters the amount of weird food handling going on as markers is kind of a cross contamination nightmare, but from what I do know about Waffle House this is probably the last thing to worry about for that kind of thing.
I also don't like the idea of single serving packaged condiments all over the plates and touching food because they're going to have whatever "food safe" machine oil on them on the outside of the packaging as well as whatever was on everyone's hands as they dig in the boxes full of packets and whatever fell or landed on them and so on.
Putting that aside, though, the marker system is not just totally obfuscated and overly complicated, but kitchens are so chaotic that all it would take is someone bumping the plate or shuffling plates down the work line to end up with markers moving around and shifting and ending up as totally different orders and marks.
I mean it's probably part of the training and work flow to not bump plates and be careful when moving and handling them but short order cooking at speed is complicated and hard enough without having to be super careful to not accidentally move, rotate or flip any number of different condiment packets and ingredients and this whole system would drive me crazy because of how chaotic kitchens can be.
All it would take is someone bumping a whole row of plates and you've lost all of the information about what those orders even are and I'm getting stressed out just thinking about that.
There's a whole list of reasons why most diners and restaurants use tickets and a ticket rail whether printed by computer or hand-written. And when you clear tickets and spike them you have a chronological record of all of the orders that you've cleared and can identify problems like servers or counter staff not marking and calling out orders and modifications correctly.
I guess it works for them but it sounds like a whole lot of extra work, time and care in what is already a stressful, fast paced and noisy environment, and I'm actually kind of stunned that they're still doing it like this for any reason at all.
And if anything it would likely be cheaper to just have custom order tickets printed with checklists and boxes, because it looks like there's some inherent if small amount of food waste going on with using actual food as markers and doing stuff like tearing off corners of pieces of cheese, placing chocolate chips, bits of onion and pickles on the plate.
(Also, their breakfast sandwiches have pickles on them!? What the fuck!? I like pickles and all but not on a breakfast sandwich. Lettuce for a "deluxe" breakfast sandwich is super weird to me, too.)
posted by loquacious at 12:31 PM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
But I have worked in kitchens and I know how chaotic they can get, I definitely think this whole system is totally bat shit insane.
For starters the amount of weird food handling going on as markers is kind of a cross contamination nightmare, but from what I do know about Waffle House this is probably the last thing to worry about for that kind of thing.
I also don't like the idea of single serving packaged condiments all over the plates and touching food because they're going to have whatever "food safe" machine oil on them on the outside of the packaging as well as whatever was on everyone's hands as they dig in the boxes full of packets and whatever fell or landed on them and so on.
Putting that aside, though, the marker system is not just totally obfuscated and overly complicated, but kitchens are so chaotic that all it would take is someone bumping the plate or shuffling plates down the work line to end up with markers moving around and shifting and ending up as totally different orders and marks.
I mean it's probably part of the training and work flow to not bump plates and be careful when moving and handling them but short order cooking at speed is complicated and hard enough without having to be super careful to not accidentally move, rotate or flip any number of different condiment packets and ingredients and this whole system would drive me crazy because of how chaotic kitchens can be.
All it would take is someone bumping a whole row of plates and you've lost all of the information about what those orders even are and I'm getting stressed out just thinking about that.
There's a whole list of reasons why most diners and restaurants use tickets and a ticket rail whether printed by computer or hand-written. And when you clear tickets and spike them you have a chronological record of all of the orders that you've cleared and can identify problems like servers or counter staff not marking and calling out orders and modifications correctly.
I guess it works for them but it sounds like a whole lot of extra work, time and care in what is already a stressful, fast paced and noisy environment, and I'm actually kind of stunned that they're still doing it like this for any reason at all.
And if anything it would likely be cheaper to just have custom order tickets printed with checklists and boxes, because it looks like there's some inherent if small amount of food waste going on with using actual food as markers and doing stuff like tearing off corners of pieces of cheese, placing chocolate chips, bits of onion and pickles on the plate.
(Also, their breakfast sandwiches have pickles on them!? What the fuck!? I like pickles and all but not on a breakfast sandwich. Lettuce for a "deluxe" breakfast sandwich is super weird to me, too.)
posted by loquacious at 12:31 PM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I really think that the people saying "WTF, this makes no sense" just need to see it in action. It works pretty consistently across all of their locations, and Waffle House is set up to minimize inefficiency. If there was a better way to do it, they probably would have switched by now. There are a lot of situations in which visual or numeric codes are more efficient and accurate than writing everything out; I'm reminded of the tiffin wallahs delivery system, for example.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:50 PM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 12:50 PM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
So, I have never been in a Waffle House
I'd meekly suggest that doing so would be both instructive for you and the rest of your comment as well as tasty and delicious!
posted by chasles at 1:10 PM on November 11, 2023 [16 favorites]
I'd meekly suggest that doing so would be both instructive for you and the rest of your comment as well as tasty and delicious!
posted by chasles at 1:10 PM on November 11, 2023 [16 favorites]
grape jelly is used to represent eggs, which I just think is unbelievably hideous
In DC, it's common practice to apply grape jelly to breakfast sandwiches (e.g., bacon, egg and cheese), and this custom has spread at least as far as Baltimore, to the point where even some McDonald's will ask if you want jelly with your McMuffin. Don't knock it till you've tried it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:29 PM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
In DC, it's common practice to apply grape jelly to breakfast sandwiches (e.g., bacon, egg and cheese), and this custom has spread at least as far as Baltimore, to the point where even some McDonald's will ask if you want jelly with your McMuffin. Don't knock it till you've tried it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:29 PM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I NOW CRAVE A MONTE CRISTO!
posted by clavdivs at 1:35 PM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 1:35 PM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's a catch-22... if they run out of butter packs, they can't mark anyone's order as not having butter.
To paraphrase another joke...
CUSTOMER: Wheat toast with no butter, please.
SERVER: I'm so sorry -- we're all out of butter. Would you like no jam instead?
posted by egregious theorem at 1:53 PM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
To paraphrase another joke...
CUSTOMER: Wheat toast with no butter, please.
SERVER: I'm so sorry -- we're all out of butter. Would you like no jam instead?
posted by egregious theorem at 1:53 PM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Seriously, once you know the system and are good at the physical mechanics of the cooking, it's not that hard. Yes, plates can get jostled, but that's also why the way orders are called out is organized. Longer cooking meats are called first, and so those plates are pulled and set first. Like orders are called in groups (order scrambled cheese raisin on three, make two plates, make one of those scattered smothered and covered- which means one order of scrambled eggs with cheese, raisin toast and grits, one same but ring hash brown instead of grits, one same but hash browns with onions and cheese). Side orders are grouped, same with waffles (waffle on two, make one pecan).
And your memory gets trained so that yes, you mark the plates as a memory aid, but you also just remember the general shape of the order. So if the marked plates get jostled, most of the time you remember that the eggs were supposed to be over medium, or that there was a sausage omelet, not over well eggs. And if that all fails, you usually have four or fewer servers, and they are almost always within ten feet of you - you can, while flipping eggs and looking down the line at what's coming up, say, "uh, Kelly, did you have the pork chops and eggs with sliced tomatoes? Can I get a quick recall?"
I can't really speak for now, but 25 years ago at least, all the condiments were washed before they were put into the cold table trays. And much of the time, those packets go out with the eggs they marked. (It's not just grape jelly, btw. There's strawberry and mixed fruit too.) Mayo and mustard packets less so, but again, they'd been washed.
Pickles aren't placed ON the sandwiches. They are placed on the plate for customers to use or not as they choose. Raw ingredients used to mark were not, back then, supposed to stay on the plate - they were brushed into trash before the food was plated.
You aren't wrong that it's a cross-contamination nightmare. It's simply impossible to do clean kitchen protocols for allergies, which is why I, with my pesky onion allergy, just don't eat there anymore. If I must, it's waffle and bacon, both things that are very unlikely to have had onions fall in them. And while I've had anaphylaxis from Denny's and IHOP, never from the old Awful House.
Am I talking too much in here? I haven't thought much about this stuff for decades now, but man is it coming back crystal clear today.
posted by Vigilant at 1:56 PM on November 11, 2023 [62 favorites]
And your memory gets trained so that yes, you mark the plates as a memory aid, but you also just remember the general shape of the order. So if the marked plates get jostled, most of the time you remember that the eggs were supposed to be over medium, or that there was a sausage omelet, not over well eggs. And if that all fails, you usually have four or fewer servers, and they are almost always within ten feet of you - you can, while flipping eggs and looking down the line at what's coming up, say, "uh, Kelly, did you have the pork chops and eggs with sliced tomatoes? Can I get a quick recall?"
I can't really speak for now, but 25 years ago at least, all the condiments were washed before they were put into the cold table trays. And much of the time, those packets go out with the eggs they marked. (It's not just grape jelly, btw. There's strawberry and mixed fruit too.) Mayo and mustard packets less so, but again, they'd been washed.
Pickles aren't placed ON the sandwiches. They are placed on the plate for customers to use or not as they choose. Raw ingredients used to mark were not, back then, supposed to stay on the plate - they were brushed into trash before the food was plated.
You aren't wrong that it's a cross-contamination nightmare. It's simply impossible to do clean kitchen protocols for allergies, which is why I, with my pesky onion allergy, just don't eat there anymore. If I must, it's waffle and bacon, both things that are very unlikely to have had onions fall in them. And while I've had anaphylaxis from Denny's and IHOP, never from the old Awful House.
Am I talking too much in here? I haven't thought much about this stuff for decades now, but man is it coming back crystal clear today.
posted by Vigilant at 1:56 PM on November 11, 2023 [62 favorites]
- Not all restaurant uses a system like this, although there are similarities. Marking wrappers at Burger King isn't the same thing at all. Those little bubbles you see on fast food cup lids with the names of different drinks, those will be depressed inward for different drinks. The weird/insane/cool thing about this is it's a whole elaborate system that cooks are expected to learn, like a code.
- The code is crazy when it's arbitrary, but it's cool when the different elements directly involve elements of the customer's order. Customer wants cheese, the cheese goes on the plate, bam, one less thing to do.
- The idea that the cook shadows a manager for their first few days is probably not always followed. The local Waffle House here is frequently understaffed. I imagine new cooks are pushed onto the line as soon as possible.
- Those cooks, and the wait staff... that is a hard hard job.
Vigilant, as OP, I can say, if there's any place to unload your 25-year-old memories of a job, it's in this thread! Don't feel bad about it! Please tell us more if you like!
posted by JHarris at 2:07 PM on November 11, 2023 [13 favorites]
- The code is crazy when it's arbitrary, but it's cool when the different elements directly involve elements of the customer's order. Customer wants cheese, the cheese goes on the plate, bam, one less thing to do.
- The idea that the cook shadows a manager for their first few days is probably not always followed. The local Waffle House here is frequently understaffed. I imagine new cooks are pushed onto the line as soon as possible.
- Those cooks, and the wait staff... that is a hard hard job.
Vigilant, as OP, I can say, if there's any place to unload your 25-year-old memories of a job, it's in this thread! Don't feel bad about it! Please tell us more if you like!
posted by JHarris at 2:07 PM on November 11, 2023 [13 favorites]
So, I have never been in a Waffle House
I'd meekly suggest that doing so would be both instructive for you and the rest of your comment as well as tasty and delicious!
For the people in the parts of the US with no Waffle Houses still, it's worth keeping an eye on the Waffle House location map. In the west, they are now as far west as Arizona and north to Colorado. I wouldn't travel somewhere just to eat good diner food, but if you are there anyway...
Vigilant, as OP, I can say, if there's any place to unload your 25-year-old memories of a job, it's in this thread! Don't feel bad about it! Please tell us more if you like!
Yes, please!
posted by Dip Flash at 4:30 PM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'd meekly suggest that doing so would be both instructive for you and the rest of your comment as well as tasty and delicious!
For the people in the parts of the US with no Waffle Houses still, it's worth keeping an eye on the Waffle House location map. In the west, they are now as far west as Arizona and north to Colorado. I wouldn't travel somewhere just to eat good diner food, but if you are there anyway...
Vigilant, as OP, I can say, if there's any place to unload your 25-year-old memories of a job, it's in this thread! Don't feel bad about it! Please tell us more if you like!
Yes, please!
posted by Dip Flash at 4:30 PM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
OMG. Thank you for that map. There's one about 30 minutes from me.
When I was in grad school, I would drive home for holidays. Austin to Cleveland. WH was always at least 2 meals on that trip.
posted by kathrynm at 4:48 PM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
When I was in grad school, I would drive home for holidays. Austin to Cleveland. WH was always at least 2 meals on that trip.
posted by kathrynm at 4:48 PM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Am I talking too much in here?.
posted by Vigilant
You are posting the perfect amount
posted by eustatic at 5:31 PM on November 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by Vigilant
You are posting the perfect amount
posted by eustatic at 5:31 PM on November 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
If anyone is curious about anything in particular, ask away! What follows is stuff that I either think customers would want to know, or particular incidents that stand out in memory.
First, JHarris, these jobs are exhausting, it's true. Slow shifts aren't so bad, but the busy ones leave you feeling like you've been beaten. And you're also correct that the recommended training often gets seriously abbreviated when staff is short. Largely because the manager is expected to cover short shifts, which can easily lead to 90 hour work weeks.
Servers get paid the tipped minimum wage, which most places is two dollars and change per hour. Now, the law says that if the server can't make enough in tips to fill or exceed the normal minimum wage, the employer is supposed to make up the difference. Which WH will, but any server who is under tipped more than a few times will have upper management pressing the store manager to reduce their hours to nothing. So tip your servers well - they dont just wait tables, they also bus and wash all the dishes, except on the most hectic shifts.
Cooks start at minimum wage, but can get raises and also get bonuses for sales increase. The company projects expected sales for each shift - the cook gets a bonus proportional to how much higher sales were than the projection. Cooks also have more prospective advancement - you MUST be a cook to be a manager. Cooks with real skill and sometimes panache also can and do earn tips, especially on holidays.
The cook on morning shift is almost always the store manager or assistant manager. Ast. Mngr. Is an hourly position at WH. Store manager is salary, and so income for managers is wildly variable. The base salary is ridiculously low - I think mine was something like 17k a year before bonuses. And that's where the money can be, for a some. There are bonuses for SO many things - low food cost, no overtime from hourly employees, getting deposit to the bank on time daily, employee retention, morning paperwork done before 7:30 am, no short cash drawers... I'm sure I'm forgetting something. The bonuses are great for a new manager stepping into a previously well run store. Not so much for many others.
Hmm
Hurricanes. You tape the windows, and ride out the storm in the back room of the store. Hopefully you'll have a few employees with you, ones that don't have kids or other family responsibilities. After the storm, if you have power, it's business as usual. If you don't, hopefully upper management got you a generator. You don't need a big one - just enough to run the waffle irons and the blower over the grill, otherwise it's gonna get really smoky in there.
You serve a limited menu, starting with everything thats unfrozen but refrigerated. Limited menu, because if you didn't have power, neither does anyone else and you are going to be utterly swamped. The busiest day ever for me was such a day - the hotels around us were full of hungry people, and once the hotel staff let them out, we had a line wrapped five times around the building. My district and area managers came with food rescued from a damaged store. That day we had four managers cooking, five servers, a hostess and a dishwasher, and we didn't slow down until just before nightfall.
The servers do Very well on such days - not one of the servers we had that day made less than 800 dollars in tips, people were so grateful to be able to eat hot food.
I was assistant manager at a WH in Orlando for a while. This guy walks in about six pm, pulls a gun, demands money. Now company policy is give them anything they ask for if you are robbed. But the cook that day got hit with major adrenaline and started throwing the little cast iron skillets for cheese eggs at this dude - she knocked him out, and thus broke a streak of WH robberies that had been going for months.
Shaquille O'Neill would come to that WH occasionally. Another I worked at was patronized regularly by boxer Roy Jones Junior. Both guys were nice enough, but their hangers-on were annoying dipshits.
At another WH, surrounded by hotels, we had a Pentecostal problem. There was a huge revival in town for about five years, and people came from all over the world to attend. After services, many of them would come into the Waffle House. They'd order glasses of ice water, then ask for ten lemon slices so they could make lemonade at the table. They'd run the servers ragged, then leave a tract that looked like a folded five dollar bill and no tip. When I politely asked, after weeks of this, why they would not tip, one man looked me in the eye and said "We serve God. You serve Us." to loud amens from his companions.
One night, after months of them thronging my store every night, one of the local regulars came in. This was back when you could smoke in a restaurant, and so this local is lighting up as he walks in. He's immediately surrounded by these church folk, and one of them smacks his forehead with an open palm, loudly exclaiming that "You have been CONVICTED of smoking, and the Lord has healed you!" Cue the rest of them also smacking him and squawking the same thing.
The opportunity was too good, so I called the police on them for assaulting my customer. Sadly (not sadly) the church that was holding the revival advised its attendees to avoid us after that.
We had some unhoused guys that would come in a couple times a week. They always wanted to work for food, so we'd ask them to tidy the parking lot, then feed them as much of the food that was free to employees as they wanted.
Once, in the middle of winter a guy came in in mismatched shoes, no coat, ragged and thin. But he wanted to work for his food, so we asked him to clean the already clean bathroom. A couple regulars cashed out and left while he was scrubbing the walls back there.
While he was eating his meal, both regulars came back - one with a brand new pair of sneakers in his size, and one with a new winter coat. Everybody got a little misty that day.
Like a lot of service jobs, it's hard work when done right. And given the pay, a surprisingly high percentage of the people I worked with really cared about doing a good job. Not even close to all, of course. But many.
posted by Vigilant at 6:08 PM on November 11, 2023 [139 favorites]
First, JHarris, these jobs are exhausting, it's true. Slow shifts aren't so bad, but the busy ones leave you feeling like you've been beaten. And you're also correct that the recommended training often gets seriously abbreviated when staff is short. Largely because the manager is expected to cover short shifts, which can easily lead to 90 hour work weeks.
Servers get paid the tipped minimum wage, which most places is two dollars and change per hour. Now, the law says that if the server can't make enough in tips to fill or exceed the normal minimum wage, the employer is supposed to make up the difference. Which WH will, but any server who is under tipped more than a few times will have upper management pressing the store manager to reduce their hours to nothing. So tip your servers well - they dont just wait tables, they also bus and wash all the dishes, except on the most hectic shifts.
Cooks start at minimum wage, but can get raises and also get bonuses for sales increase. The company projects expected sales for each shift - the cook gets a bonus proportional to how much higher sales were than the projection. Cooks also have more prospective advancement - you MUST be a cook to be a manager. Cooks with real skill and sometimes panache also can and do earn tips, especially on holidays.
The cook on morning shift is almost always the store manager or assistant manager. Ast. Mngr. Is an hourly position at WH. Store manager is salary, and so income for managers is wildly variable. The base salary is ridiculously low - I think mine was something like 17k a year before bonuses. And that's where the money can be, for a some. There are bonuses for SO many things - low food cost, no overtime from hourly employees, getting deposit to the bank on time daily, employee retention, morning paperwork done before 7:30 am, no short cash drawers... I'm sure I'm forgetting something. The bonuses are great for a new manager stepping into a previously well run store. Not so much for many others.
Hmm
Hurricanes. You tape the windows, and ride out the storm in the back room of the store. Hopefully you'll have a few employees with you, ones that don't have kids or other family responsibilities. After the storm, if you have power, it's business as usual. If you don't, hopefully upper management got you a generator. You don't need a big one - just enough to run the waffle irons and the blower over the grill, otherwise it's gonna get really smoky in there.
You serve a limited menu, starting with everything thats unfrozen but refrigerated. Limited menu, because if you didn't have power, neither does anyone else and you are going to be utterly swamped. The busiest day ever for me was such a day - the hotels around us were full of hungry people, and once the hotel staff let them out, we had a line wrapped five times around the building. My district and area managers came with food rescued from a damaged store. That day we had four managers cooking, five servers, a hostess and a dishwasher, and we didn't slow down until just before nightfall.
The servers do Very well on such days - not one of the servers we had that day made less than 800 dollars in tips, people were so grateful to be able to eat hot food.
I was assistant manager at a WH in Orlando for a while. This guy walks in about six pm, pulls a gun, demands money. Now company policy is give them anything they ask for if you are robbed. But the cook that day got hit with major adrenaline and started throwing the little cast iron skillets for cheese eggs at this dude - she knocked him out, and thus broke a streak of WH robberies that had been going for months.
Shaquille O'Neill would come to that WH occasionally. Another I worked at was patronized regularly by boxer Roy Jones Junior. Both guys were nice enough, but their hangers-on were annoying dipshits.
At another WH, surrounded by hotels, we had a Pentecostal problem. There was a huge revival in town for about five years, and people came from all over the world to attend. After services, many of them would come into the Waffle House. They'd order glasses of ice water, then ask for ten lemon slices so they could make lemonade at the table. They'd run the servers ragged, then leave a tract that looked like a folded five dollar bill and no tip. When I politely asked, after weeks of this, why they would not tip, one man looked me in the eye and said "We serve God. You serve Us." to loud amens from his companions.
One night, after months of them thronging my store every night, one of the local regulars came in. This was back when you could smoke in a restaurant, and so this local is lighting up as he walks in. He's immediately surrounded by these church folk, and one of them smacks his forehead with an open palm, loudly exclaiming that "You have been CONVICTED of smoking, and the Lord has healed you!" Cue the rest of them also smacking him and squawking the same thing.
The opportunity was too good, so I called the police on them for assaulting my customer. Sadly (not sadly) the church that was holding the revival advised its attendees to avoid us after that.
We had some unhoused guys that would come in a couple times a week. They always wanted to work for food, so we'd ask them to tidy the parking lot, then feed them as much of the food that was free to employees as they wanted.
Once, in the middle of winter a guy came in in mismatched shoes, no coat, ragged and thin. But he wanted to work for his food, so we asked him to clean the already clean bathroom. A couple regulars cashed out and left while he was scrubbing the walls back there.
While he was eating his meal, both regulars came back - one with a brand new pair of sneakers in his size, and one with a new winter coat. Everybody got a little misty that day.
Like a lot of service jobs, it's hard work when done right. And given the pay, a surprisingly high percentage of the people I worked with really cared about doing a good job. Not even close to all, of course. But many.
posted by Vigilant at 6:08 PM on November 11, 2023 [139 favorites]
But the cook that day got hit with major adrenaline and started throwing the little cast iron skillets for cheese eggs at this dude - she knocked him out, and thus broke a streak of WH robberies that had been going for months.
I'm reminded of the faux WH application form that asks "What is your fighting style?" I don't think Cast Iron Ninja was an option.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:21 PM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'm reminded of the faux WH application form that asks "What is your fighting style?" I don't think Cast Iron Ninja was an option.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:21 PM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
Vigilant, those are terrific stories! Thanks for sharing them with us, and if you have more please don't feel shy about telling us!
posted by JHarris at 7:10 PM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 7:10 PM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
There are parts of the US without a Waffle House? I am gobsmacked. What do you put at highway exits? Hell, I mean how do you even know there is an exit without a Waffle House sign to mark it?
Where I’m from, Waffle House is a kind of folk navigational system, like redneck GPS. It’s set up so that from the Waffle House where you are, you should just be able to see the sign for the next Waffle House, and that way you don’t wander off course and get lost.
posted by Naberius at 8:09 PM on November 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
Where I’m from, Waffle House is a kind of folk navigational system, like redneck GPS. It’s set up so that from the Waffle House where you are, you should just be able to see the sign for the next Waffle House, and that way you don’t wander off course and get lost.
posted by Naberius at 8:09 PM on November 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
Do you want a new alphabet? Because this is how you get new alphabets.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 8:40 PM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 8:40 PM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
You'd expect me to despise WH as I do most chains, by reflex; but on the contrary I'm a fan since their waffles are superior and here's why: most waffles served in American restaurants now are what I call 'large-grid' and a lot of these are labeled Belgian waffles, a variation popularized at the New York World's Fair. But I prefer the more traditional 'small-grid' waffles like they make at Waffle House (although note the newest are being equiped with irons which produce branded waffles with a WH logo in the middle).
posted by Rash at 8:51 PM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Rash at 8:51 PM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Two more things about Waffle House that somehow didn’t get mentioned yet in this thread:
1: Waffle House waffles are really, surprisingly, unexpectedly great. Most of the rest of what they serve are perfectly satisfactory versions of breakfast foods, but the waffles, man, the waffles.
2: There was discussion above about Waffle Houses and hurricanes, but nobody mentioned FEMA’s Waffle House Index. Based on how many Waffle Houses are operating (and at what level) in a given area after a storm, the index is used by FEMA when determining where to prioritize emergency responses.
posted by LEGO Damashii at 8:58 PM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
1: Waffle House waffles are really, surprisingly, unexpectedly great. Most of the rest of what they serve are perfectly satisfactory versions of breakfast foods, but the waffles, man, the waffles.
2: There was discussion above about Waffle Houses and hurricanes, but nobody mentioned FEMA’s Waffle House Index. Based on how many Waffle Houses are operating (and at what level) in a given area after a storm, the index is used by FEMA when determining where to prioritize emergency responses.
posted by LEGO Damashii at 8:58 PM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
There are parts of the US without a Waffle House? I am gobsmacked.
from The Onion: Mason-Dixon Line Renamed IHOP-Waffle House Line
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:19 PM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
from The Onion: Mason-Dixon Line Renamed IHOP-Waffle House Line
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:19 PM on November 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
but nobody mentioned FEMA’s Waffle House IndexSee this comment.
posted by Strutter Cane - United Planets Stilt Patrol at 10:47 PM on November 11, 2023
You know this is an insane system because literally no other restaurant on earth does anything like it.
I mean, it's literally just an (elaborate, granted) extension of the diner calling system that has been used for decades.
posted by tubedogg at 11:54 PM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I mean, it's literally just an (elaborate, granted) extension of the diner calling system that has been used for decades.
posted by tubedogg at 11:54 PM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Meet the Short-Order Cooks So Good Waffle House Officially Calls Them ‘Rockstars’
posted by alby at 12:24 AM on November 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by alby at 12:24 AM on November 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Y'all, there is no such thing as unskilled labour.
What about CEOs and boards of director tho?
posted by Pyrogenesis at 1:56 AM on November 12, 2023 [19 favorites]
What about CEOs and boards of director tho?
posted by Pyrogenesis at 1:56 AM on November 12, 2023 [19 favorites]
Waffle House location finder
You can see maybe three patterns here:
1. areas that have lots of Waffle Houses, even in smaller towns
2. areas where Waffle Houses are frequent along interstate highways, but not elsewhere
3. urban areas with clusters of Waffle Houses (2 and 3 have overlap, of course)
Pattern 1 extends over Georgia, Carolinas, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama. Probably the Florida Panhandle follows pattern 1, but the rest of Florida might be following 2 and 3. Southern Louisiana might follow 1, but there's a big gap in the middle of the state before you see Waffle Houses along I-20 in the north (pattern 2) or in Shreveport (3).
Kentucky, Virginia, Ohio, Missouri, Arkansas have quite a few, but a closer look might show patterns 2 and 3. Pennsylvania has an odd scattering, with none in the cores of Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. There are other unexpected gaps: most of West Virginia doesn't have a Waffle House. In Texas, Dallas and Houston have large clusters, Austin only has three, San Antonio has none.
Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, only have outlying colonies following pattern 3.
States without Waffle House: New York, New Jersey, all New England States, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, North/South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, California, Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Hawaii. Also, Kansas and Illinois only have a small number in the Kansas City and St. Louis metro areas, just across the border from Missouri.
posted by gimonca at 6:00 AM on November 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
You can see maybe three patterns here:
1. areas that have lots of Waffle Houses, even in smaller towns
2. areas where Waffle Houses are frequent along interstate highways, but not elsewhere
3. urban areas with clusters of Waffle Houses (2 and 3 have overlap, of course)
Pattern 1 extends over Georgia, Carolinas, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama. Probably the Florida Panhandle follows pattern 1, but the rest of Florida might be following 2 and 3. Southern Louisiana might follow 1, but there's a big gap in the middle of the state before you see Waffle Houses along I-20 in the north (pattern 2) or in Shreveport (3).
Kentucky, Virginia, Ohio, Missouri, Arkansas have quite a few, but a closer look might show patterns 2 and 3. Pennsylvania has an odd scattering, with none in the cores of Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. There are other unexpected gaps: most of West Virginia doesn't have a Waffle House. In Texas, Dallas and Houston have large clusters, Austin only has three, San Antonio has none.
Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, only have outlying colonies following pattern 3.
States without Waffle House: New York, New Jersey, all New England States, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, North/South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, California, Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Hawaii. Also, Kansas and Illinois only have a small number in the Kansas City and St. Louis metro areas, just across the border from Missouri.
posted by gimonca at 6:00 AM on November 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
I have hours of training videos I'm supposed to be watching today for my actual paying job, but I'm blowing them off to learn how to mark plates for a restaurant that I've been to just once, with no locations anywhere near me. Just in case. (Sorry, Kevin Mitnick, but if you had more grape jelly in your Security Awareness Training films they might be more interesting.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:34 AM on November 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:34 AM on November 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
I started out snorting and scoffing because "O, it's hieroglyphics again? Replace useful words with useless icons?!? Jelly packs??? anathemaaaaa!!!" and rapidly evolved to "genius!" over the course of this thread. It's using what you're already doing--using your two hands to manipulate objects and put those objects on plates--to write yourself a note. So you hear the order and write it yourself on the plate with both your hands with the stuff you're having to fuck with anyway to make the food. You don't have to fiddle with grabbing a pencil and something to scrawl on, don't have to look up from the plate to determine what to put on the plate, don't have to WRITE, using just one of your hands and a totally different sector of your brain from the sector that you're already using to fling things on the grill and on the plate--no tool use, just the raw elements, the plate, and you. It would be miles and miles better for staying in flow. I want to be a wafflehouse cook, now.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:57 AM on November 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 6:57 AM on November 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
I bet it was one cook somewhere, like, say, Memphis, who came up with it and through it became remarkably faster than every other waffle house cook. And corporate noticed, whereupon the system was recognized and recorded and perfected and codified and now all waffle house cooks have the chance to become masters and miniskillet ninjas like the Orlando lady who took out the invader. She clearly was in a beautiful fugue state of pure accomplishment and just did the most efficient thing to stop the interruption and keep the plates flowing through.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:07 AM on November 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 7:07 AM on November 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
(Sorry, Kevin Mitnick, but if you had more grape jelly in your Security Awareness Training films they might be more interesting.)
I just did that training!! Is it Security Awareness Training Season?? Is there a tree we need to decorate? Presents to buy?
posted by cooker girl at 7:22 AM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just did that training!! Is it Security Awareness Training Season?? Is there a tree we need to decorate? Presents to buy?
posted by cooker girl at 7:22 AM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's kind of funny to see the comments about how "no, this can't be real," or "no, this is all wrong, it should be this or that," or "they should do it this way..." and folks not realizing that:
1. Waffle House has been in business for nearly 70 years, serving the same kind of food the whole time. They know exactly what they're doing.
2. This system was obviously put into place by the folks using it all day, every day. This isn't something a newly-minted MBA at corporate thought up, this was devised by the folks doing the work to make their work easier.
3. This system has been in place for decades, and has been tested and refined over and over. It is ruthlessly efficient.
4. If it didn't work, the employees wouldn't use it. I've been that grunt kitchen drone, and if someone tried to push a system on me that was inefficient and impractical, at best I'd just ignore it. At worst, I'd be maliciously compliant. This is how kitchen folks are.
I think a lot of folks here really don't understand that restaurants are highly complex systems, especially at scale - meaning high volume or complex menus or mass feedings. It's not just cooking and putting food on a plate and taking it to the table.
There are entire systems in place to manage when tables are sat, the pacing of the orders, the timing of when different parts of an order are cooked so that all the food goes out together, how to clear the table, how to turn the table and get things ready for the next diners... It doesn't "just happen."
If you've never worked food service, the next time you're in a restaurant try to pay attention to what's going on around you through the lens of "there is a system behind all this, I wonder how it works?" It can make dining out more interesting.
The flip side of this is that if you know what to look for, you can spot when things are breaking down and that can make it hard to relax when you know things are going badly for the folks trying to do the work.
Oh, and tip well. Restaurant jobs are hard jobs and require a lot of skill to get right.
posted by ralan at 7:40 AM on November 12, 2023 [17 favorites]
1. Waffle House has been in business for nearly 70 years, serving the same kind of food the whole time. They know exactly what they're doing.
2. This system was obviously put into place by the folks using it all day, every day. This isn't something a newly-minted MBA at corporate thought up, this was devised by the folks doing the work to make their work easier.
3. This system has been in place for decades, and has been tested and refined over and over. It is ruthlessly efficient.
4. If it didn't work, the employees wouldn't use it. I've been that grunt kitchen drone, and if someone tried to push a system on me that was inefficient and impractical, at best I'd just ignore it. At worst, I'd be maliciously compliant. This is how kitchen folks are.
I think a lot of folks here really don't understand that restaurants are highly complex systems, especially at scale - meaning high volume or complex menus or mass feedings. It's not just cooking and putting food on a plate and taking it to the table.
There are entire systems in place to manage when tables are sat, the pacing of the orders, the timing of when different parts of an order are cooked so that all the food goes out together, how to clear the table, how to turn the table and get things ready for the next diners... It doesn't "just happen."
If you've never worked food service, the next time you're in a restaurant try to pay attention to what's going on around you through the lens of "there is a system behind all this, I wonder how it works?" It can make dining out more interesting.
The flip side of this is that if you know what to look for, you can spot when things are breaking down and that can make it hard to relax when you know things are going badly for the folks trying to do the work.
Oh, and tip well. Restaurant jobs are hard jobs and require a lot of skill to get right.
posted by ralan at 7:40 AM on November 12, 2023 [17 favorites]
Great thread, love having my initial impressions subverted and getting a glimpse into a complex world I knew nothing about.
I've been working in a theatre for the past year and the challenges of managing hundreds of people over a short space of time are no joke. Here's to the invisible service workers and their bizarre arcane improvised systems who keep the world from falling apart at any given moment.
posted by Acey at 8:04 AM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've been working in a theatre for the past year and the challenges of managing hundreds of people over a short space of time are no joke. Here's to the invisible service workers and their bizarre arcane improvised systems who keep the world from falling apart at any given moment.
posted by Acey at 8:04 AM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I live on the wrong coast to be near a Waffle House, but I really enjoyed learning about their order system. When I worked at a company that had a cafeteria, I was obsessed with watching the short order cook prepare four omelets simultaneously, AND hold a conversation at the same time.
All I know about Waffle House is that video from last year where one employee threw down with a mob. The efficiency of her combos? The bit where she deflects a thrown chair like it was nothing? I've watched that dozens of times. Her fighting technique is unstoppable.
So unstoppable she is blacklisted from working there again. (Probably because she is far too powerful.)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:05 AM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
All I know about Waffle House is that video from last year where one employee threw down with a mob. The efficiency of her combos? The bit where she deflects a thrown chair like it was nothing? I've watched that dozens of times. Her fighting technique is unstoppable.
So unstoppable she is blacklisted from working there again. (Probably because she is far too powerful.)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:05 AM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
gimonca thank you for the WH location finder .. sad to say my nearest WH is 1489 miles away, in Santa Fe. No waffles for me today :-(
posted by anadem at 8:10 AM on November 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by anadem at 8:10 AM on November 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I love Waffles House.
This is pedantic, but I'm pretty sure the correct plural is "Waffle Hice".
posted by jackbishop at 8:39 AM on November 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is pedantic, but I'm pretty sure the correct plural is "Waffle Hice".
posted by jackbishop at 8:39 AM on November 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'd meekly suggest that doing so would be both instructive for you and the rest of your comment as well as tasty and delicious!
Yeah, I regret not going when I lived in Texas. I also missed out on Whataburger.
Like a lot of people from outside of WH territory I've heard all kinds of stories about WH from the hurricane and disaster response stuff and tropes like "You know shit is about to get real if the Waffle House closes." as well as the stories about late night chaos, pandemonium and mutual combat, as well as how hardcore the staff can be because they've seen all the shit.
And your comments, stories and insights are great, Vigilant. It definitely helped the marking system make more sense. Like if it's just the cook(s) doing the marking as they hear orders called in and they're the only one around the plates and order queue that sounds a lot more manageable.
I was imagining servers passing and moving plates around and the sort of chaos I'm used to in smaller independent restaurants and kitchens. There's definitely a whole dance routine and muscle memory that develops and I've worked with good crews where we're 20 tickets deep in the weeds, we have the music blasting and we basically don't even have to talk at all while we chase each other around knocking down tickets.
And a huge part of that is having a ticket rail to watch and track where we are in the flow. There's a lot of non-verbal communication that happens like someone simply pointing to a staged and uncompleted plate with a raised eyebrow and then someone else pointing to the corresponding ticket on the rail and you don't even have to verbalize anything about it at all and they jump in to keep it moving.
I'm also impressed (and a little terrified) that y'all actually wash condiment packets and as a fellow cook and kitchen worker the logistics of all that are giving me second hand PTSD.
I didn't really mean to come across like I could tell Waffle House how to Waffle House better, I know they've been an institution for decades and they know what they're doing, and, yeah, if I was on the line and grill I'd end up learning the system and probably loving it, too. But, man, it's a whole lot to try to remember out of the gate from a basic video.
posted by loquacious at 9:17 AM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I regret not going when I lived in Texas. I also missed out on Whataburger.
Like a lot of people from outside of WH territory I've heard all kinds of stories about WH from the hurricane and disaster response stuff and tropes like "You know shit is about to get real if the Waffle House closes." as well as the stories about late night chaos, pandemonium and mutual combat, as well as how hardcore the staff can be because they've seen all the shit.
And your comments, stories and insights are great, Vigilant. It definitely helped the marking system make more sense. Like if it's just the cook(s) doing the marking as they hear orders called in and they're the only one around the plates and order queue that sounds a lot more manageable.
I was imagining servers passing and moving plates around and the sort of chaos I'm used to in smaller independent restaurants and kitchens. There's definitely a whole dance routine and muscle memory that develops and I've worked with good crews where we're 20 tickets deep in the weeds, we have the music blasting and we basically don't even have to talk at all while we chase each other around knocking down tickets.
And a huge part of that is having a ticket rail to watch and track where we are in the flow. There's a lot of non-verbal communication that happens like someone simply pointing to a staged and uncompleted plate with a raised eyebrow and then someone else pointing to the corresponding ticket on the rail and you don't even have to verbalize anything about it at all and they jump in to keep it moving.
I'm also impressed (and a little terrified) that y'all actually wash condiment packets and as a fellow cook and kitchen worker the logistics of all that are giving me second hand PTSD.
I didn't really mean to come across like I could tell Waffle House how to Waffle House better, I know they've been an institution for decades and they know what they're doing, and, yeah, if I was on the line and grill I'd end up learning the system and probably loving it, too. But, man, it's a whole lot to try to remember out of the gate from a basic video.
posted by loquacious at 9:17 AM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the correct plural is "Waffle Hice"
I was going to mention the Dad Joke, I could hear my father saying it as I began reading this thread, thought of injecting it into my comment, but resisted the urge.
posted by Rash at 9:28 AM on November 12, 2023
I was going to mention the Dad Joke, I could hear my father saying it as I began reading this thread, thought of injecting it into my comment, but resisted the urge.
posted by Rash at 9:28 AM on November 12, 2023
Damn you all—the nearest WH to D.C. (not the White House) is either in Dumfries, Va., or Rockville, Md., i.e., very far away. And now I want an egg breakfast over medium with sausage and hash browns.
But what's with the no-pancakes? A short stack > toast alongside breakfast.
posted by the sobsister at 9:31 AM on November 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
But what's with the no-pancakes? A short stack > toast alongside breakfast.
posted by the sobsister at 9:31 AM on November 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was a Waffle House cook for over two years when I was in college. They paid $2 an hour more than any other restaurant in town back when that was a major increase. The reason was because you had to learn the system, and not just anyone could do it.
Fortunately the majority of orders were the same 8-10 things so it wasn't bad. I was never quizzed on my knowledge of the system, but management WOULD get on your ass if they caught you asking the server to repeat the order after they'd called it.
I luckily had the prep shift most of the time - 2pm-10pm - so I rarely was ever swamped and never had to really put it to the test except on Christmas, which was a mandatory day to work for every single employee. It's their busiest day of the year and they tell you in the job interview that you have to work at least 2 hours, no exceptions, and you WILL be fired for missing it.
posted by dozo at 9:54 AM on November 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
Fortunately the majority of orders were the same 8-10 things so it wasn't bad. I was never quizzed on my knowledge of the system, but management WOULD get on your ass if they caught you asking the server to repeat the order after they'd called it.
I luckily had the prep shift most of the time - 2pm-10pm - so I rarely was ever swamped and never had to really put it to the test except on Christmas, which was a mandatory day to work for every single employee. It's their busiest day of the year and they tell you in the job interview that you have to work at least 2 hours, no exceptions, and you WILL be fired for missing it.
posted by dozo at 9:54 AM on November 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
But what's with the no-pancakes?
You're gonna make me be that guy? It's Waffle House. You don't need pancakes when you have objectively* the best waffles around.
*Yeah I said it, and I mean it.
posted by cooker girl at 10:09 AM on November 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
You're gonna make me be that guy? It's Waffle House. You don't need pancakes when you have objectively* the best waffles around.
*Yeah I said it, and I mean it.
posted by cooker girl at 10:09 AM on November 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
cooker girl, I'm going to have to invoke—because I cannot embed—the "Why not both?" gif.
Waffles are fine, certainly, but they, generally, don't have the pliability and absorbency of pancakes, which makes them less useful as a bread substitute when it comes time to mop up egg yolk and hashbrown/sausage bits.
posted by the sobsister at 11:34 AM on November 12, 2023
Waffles are fine, certainly, but they, generally, don't have the pliability and absorbency of pancakes, which makes them less useful as a bread substitute when it comes time to mop up egg yolk and hashbrown/sausage bits.
posted by the sobsister at 11:34 AM on November 12, 2023
I just want those in this thread, whose misapprehensions of these logistics techniques have been corrected by experienced professionals, to take these lessons and apply them to the next time y'all see a complex system that you don't immediately understand, and you're tempted to dismiss it as nonsense or 'fix' it with fast, easy suggestions. Please allow yourself to learn from what traditions came before you showed up. You have so much to learn, and that's not an insult, it's a benefit.
posted by panhopticon at 11:44 AM on November 12, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by panhopticon at 11:44 AM on November 12, 2023 [18 favorites]
Instead of ordering I want to just cast a few jelly and condiment packets onto plate see what the cook makes.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:32 PM on November 12, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:32 PM on November 12, 2023 [12 favorites]
Waffles are fine, certainly, but they, generally, don't have the pliability and absorbency of pancakes, which makes them less useful as a bread substitute when it comes time to mop up egg yolk and hashbrown/sausage bits.
Have you had a Waffle House waffle? They're way more pancake-like than, like, other waffles. Also, why have a bread substitute when you can have bread and a Waffle House waffle (and slather it in butter and soak it in syrup)? Plus you can get pecan waffles at WH and OMG now I want WH.
posted by cooker girl at 1:23 PM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Have you had a Waffle House waffle? They're way more pancake-like than, like, other waffles. Also, why have a bread substitute when you can have bread and a Waffle House waffle (and slather it in butter and soak it in syrup)? Plus you can get pecan waffles at WH and OMG now I want WH.
posted by cooker girl at 1:23 PM on November 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
cooker girl, point taken. The one time I went to WH, I did not get the eponymous items. If I do get out to one, I will keep your suggestion in mind. Thanks.
posted by the sobsister at 1:44 PM on November 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by the sobsister at 1:44 PM on November 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
*waves at dozo* Glad I'm not the only WH veteran around!
I had not seen that video before, fifteen shnitzengruben is my limit. That scene is not, unfortunately, shocking to me. It does remind me though of my favorite crowd control tool in the Waffle House - the sink sprayer.
See, the sink is underneath the high counter there. And the stream from the spray hose travels a good 12 feet in most stores. So my habit when on this shift and seeing a situation beginning to unfold was to turn the sink taps to cold. When it was time to kick somebody out, I'd have a server ready to call 911, then announce to the problem children that they can leave calmly, leave cold and wet, or be arrested cold and wet.
Let them rush you first, then spray the cold water at their noses. Then when their mouths open, spray as best you can to into open mouths and up nostrils. Very few people keep coming after that. At that point, my preferred weapons were the big pots for cooking chili and grits, and the lid for said pot as a shield.
There was one WH, when I was a server still, that the entire third shift threatened to quit unless they got us security. And they did, once we explained. See, it was a rural WH, and so there hadn't really been a problem before. But that year, two new bars opened within a couple months of each other. One was mostly patronized by black folks. The other was owned and operated by a KKK ass-wipe and had the matching clientele. After three weekends with those two groups mixing in our restaurant after last call, we'd already seen four handguns brandished in the parking lot, and felt it was a matter of time until somebody got shot.
The franchise owner didn't want that kind of publicity, so they hired an off duty cop for a few months till things settled down. (I should also note that the real danger we perceived was the white supremacists. We specifically asked for a non white cop, and it worked.) After a couple months most of the Kluckers stopped coming in.
Loquacious, for my part, WH is the only kind of diner I've ever worked, so the sort of kitchen you describe makes me anxious! The WH system works very well in that specific environment - that specific food line layout, the menu built around a small number of foods, the specific seating layout and occupancy limits. I wouldn't want to use the WH system in a bigger place, or one that didn't have the cooks and servers cheek-by-jowl like WH does.
Waffle batter comes to the stores as a dry mix. You'd put eggs and some half n half in a gallon plastic tub, dump in the dry mix, and then (at least in the ones where I worked) use a big whisk with the handle clamped into a power drill to mix it fast and easy. I saw my first stand mixer AFTER having used this setup, which I think is kinda funny.
For those of you who love WH waffles, but don't live near one, you can buy the mix online from WH. When I managed, there were a few customers who really loved the chicken, waffle batter or hashbrowns and would buy a case from time to time to cook at home, though upper management frowned on that.
JHarris, thanks for posting this and being okay with me talking so much in here. I don't comment a whole lot on MeFi because I'm largely self- educated and all too aware of how spotty my understanding is of many things discussed here on the blue. But for once I feel like a gen-u-ine subject matter expert!
posted by Vigilant at 2:13 PM on November 12, 2023 [51 favorites]
I had not seen that video before, fifteen shnitzengruben is my limit. That scene is not, unfortunately, shocking to me. It does remind me though of my favorite crowd control tool in the Waffle House - the sink sprayer.
See, the sink is underneath the high counter there. And the stream from the spray hose travels a good 12 feet in most stores. So my habit when on this shift and seeing a situation beginning to unfold was to turn the sink taps to cold. When it was time to kick somebody out, I'd have a server ready to call 911, then announce to the problem children that they can leave calmly, leave cold and wet, or be arrested cold and wet.
Let them rush you first, then spray the cold water at their noses. Then when their mouths open, spray as best you can to into open mouths and up nostrils. Very few people keep coming after that. At that point, my preferred weapons were the big pots for cooking chili and grits, and the lid for said pot as a shield.
There was one WH, when I was a server still, that the entire third shift threatened to quit unless they got us security. And they did, once we explained. See, it was a rural WH, and so there hadn't really been a problem before. But that year, two new bars opened within a couple months of each other. One was mostly patronized by black folks. The other was owned and operated by a KKK ass-wipe and had the matching clientele. After three weekends with those two groups mixing in our restaurant after last call, we'd already seen four handguns brandished in the parking lot, and felt it was a matter of time until somebody got shot.
The franchise owner didn't want that kind of publicity, so they hired an off duty cop for a few months till things settled down. (I should also note that the real danger we perceived was the white supremacists. We specifically asked for a non white cop, and it worked.) After a couple months most of the Kluckers stopped coming in.
Loquacious, for my part, WH is the only kind of diner I've ever worked, so the sort of kitchen you describe makes me anxious! The WH system works very well in that specific environment - that specific food line layout, the menu built around a small number of foods, the specific seating layout and occupancy limits. I wouldn't want to use the WH system in a bigger place, or one that didn't have the cooks and servers cheek-by-jowl like WH does.
Waffle batter comes to the stores as a dry mix. You'd put eggs and some half n half in a gallon plastic tub, dump in the dry mix, and then (at least in the ones where I worked) use a big whisk with the handle clamped into a power drill to mix it fast and easy. I saw my first stand mixer AFTER having used this setup, which I think is kinda funny.
For those of you who love WH waffles, but don't live near one, you can buy the mix online from WH. When I managed, there were a few customers who really loved the chicken, waffle batter or hashbrowns and would buy a case from time to time to cook at home, though upper management frowned on that.
JHarris, thanks for posting this and being okay with me talking so much in here. I don't comment a whole lot on MeFi because I'm largely self- educated and all too aware of how spotty my understanding is of many things discussed here on the blue. But for once I feel like a gen-u-ine subject matter expert!
posted by Vigilant at 2:13 PM on November 12, 2023 [51 favorites]
Quick update. I had a few Brits in town today for a work visit and promptly took them to waffle house.
Double hashbrowns, scattered well, pepper, capped, country style. Side of wheat toast, side of bacon. 5 cups of coffee...
The Brits enjoyed the food and nice comfy bit of Americana.
posted by chasles at 5:18 PM on November 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Double hashbrowns, scattered well, pepper, capped, country style. Side of wheat toast, side of bacon. 5 cups of coffee...
The Brits enjoyed the food and nice comfy bit of Americana.
posted by chasles at 5:18 PM on November 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Mod note: [btw, this post and Vigilant's commentary have been added to the sidebar and the Best Of blog]
posted by taz (staff) at 2:34 AM on November 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 2:34 AM on November 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
I want to hear more about how the packets are washed...and dried? Sounds like an awful thing to have to do.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:48 AM on November 13, 2023
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:48 AM on November 13, 2023
(And thank you for all the insights, Vigilant!)
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:06 AM on November 13, 2023
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:06 AM on November 13, 2023
how the packets are washed...and dried?
Can't be much more complicated than putting them in a bucket of soapy water, straining, and rinsing in sanitizer, can it?
drying might need more work though.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:00 AM on November 13, 2023
Can't be much more complicated than putting them in a bucket of soapy water, straining, and rinsing in sanitizer, can it?
drying might need more work though.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:00 AM on November 13, 2023
It's pretty simple. The condiment packets come to store in cardboard boxes. About half are left in those boxes until needed for the servers - any extra jelly, mayo, mustard, etc that diners want are kept in shelves on the booth side so servers don't have to interrupt the cooks to get them. Those to be used on the line would be dumped into the same plastic buckets used for waffle batter.
Fill with hot soapy water, swish, dump, refill. Swish dump, refill. Swish, dump, spread on towels on the back sink shelf to dry. When dry, place in square metal bin that can fit into the slot in the cold table. Cover with clear film until needed on the line.
Fun fact - unless the place is swamped, nothing in WH is dried. Everything is supposed to air dry. When you see servers "drying" silverware, they are actually polishing water spots off, not drying at all. This isn't a WH rule, btw - it's food safety. A towel used to dry dishes is much more likely to spread bacteria than to do anything good, so state food safety rules say not to.
Sometimes, of course, you have to. If you've been busy all day, you've used your whole stock of plates and flatware in the first couple hours, you still have hungry people. Then the rule is to use a fresh, sanitized towel ( there's a service that cleans the towels and grill pads each week) and then place that towel for further use to clean tables or dry hands.
The condiment packs that have been used to mark food and not sent out with the plate are tossed in a plastic tub in the corner of the dirty side of the front sink. Before end of shift, the cook should take that tub to the back sink and repeat the washing process.
Jelly packets are used to mark eggs, btw, because eggs almost always come with toast, which is served with jelly anyway. Every sandwich is served with a mayo packet.
I use the term cold table though it's not really a cold table. The cabinets between the grill and the waffle irons are refrigerated. The top (where a counter would be normally) is open, with narrow metal strips laid in a grid across the opening. Square metal bins are then slotted into the spaces made by the strips, and hold al the stuff that is supposed to be cold or just, y'know, not hot. Lettuce, onions, tomato, pickles, peppers, jelly, butter, uncooked hash browns, diced ham, cheese slices, etc.
Speaking of butter - the bar butter is real butter, and that's what goes on toast, to make grilled sandwiches, like that. The packaged butter is actually whipped margarine. So people with lactose issues often ask for no butter, then use the margarine. And waffle lovers? Ask for bar butter on your waffle (when there isn't a huge crowd) - makes it more delicious.
posted by Vigilant at 7:02 AM on November 13, 2023 [23 favorites]
Fill with hot soapy water, swish, dump, refill. Swish dump, refill. Swish, dump, spread on towels on the back sink shelf to dry. When dry, place in square metal bin that can fit into the slot in the cold table. Cover with clear film until needed on the line.
Fun fact - unless the place is swamped, nothing in WH is dried. Everything is supposed to air dry. When you see servers "drying" silverware, they are actually polishing water spots off, not drying at all. This isn't a WH rule, btw - it's food safety. A towel used to dry dishes is much more likely to spread bacteria than to do anything good, so state food safety rules say not to.
Sometimes, of course, you have to. If you've been busy all day, you've used your whole stock of plates and flatware in the first couple hours, you still have hungry people. Then the rule is to use a fresh, sanitized towel ( there's a service that cleans the towels and grill pads each week) and then place that towel for further use to clean tables or dry hands.
The condiment packs that have been used to mark food and not sent out with the plate are tossed in a plastic tub in the corner of the dirty side of the front sink. Before end of shift, the cook should take that tub to the back sink and repeat the washing process.
Jelly packets are used to mark eggs, btw, because eggs almost always come with toast, which is served with jelly anyway. Every sandwich is served with a mayo packet.
I use the term cold table though it's not really a cold table. The cabinets between the grill and the waffle irons are refrigerated. The top (where a counter would be normally) is open, with narrow metal strips laid in a grid across the opening. Square metal bins are then slotted into the spaces made by the strips, and hold al the stuff that is supposed to be cold or just, y'know, not hot. Lettuce, onions, tomato, pickles, peppers, jelly, butter, uncooked hash browns, diced ham, cheese slices, etc.
Speaking of butter - the bar butter is real butter, and that's what goes on toast, to make grilled sandwiches, like that. The packaged butter is actually whipped margarine. So people with lactose issues often ask for no butter, then use the margarine. And waffle lovers? Ask for bar butter on your waffle (when there isn't a huge crowd) - makes it more delicious.
posted by Vigilant at 7:02 AM on November 13, 2023 [23 favorites]
Wow. Thank you, Vigilant! I appreciated WH before but I'm definitely tipping extra extra next time. And asking for bar butter on my waffle if possible!
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:09 AM on November 13, 2023
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:09 AM on November 13, 2023
Vigilant, thank you so much for the insight. This is truly a best-of thread.
For anyone else that needs to restart their Monday morning because it's sucking already, contemplate the Waffle House Vistas Project over a hot cup of coffee. (and don't miss the original essay). This is my plan for the next hour.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:10 AM on November 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
For anyone else that needs to restart their Monday morning because it's sucking already, contemplate the Waffle House Vistas Project over a hot cup of coffee. (and don't miss the original essay). This is my plan for the next hour.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:10 AM on November 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
(And you say simple, but the details are what makes your comments fascinating...thank you again!)
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:10 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:10 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Brits enjoyed the food and nice comfy bit of Americana.
You may get a kick out of this - there's a pair of Youtube channels run by a couple of English guys, "Korean Englishman" and "Jolly", where they do a lot of food-and-adventures content. ("Korean Englishman" is more about "we're English dudes who are seriously into Korean food and we're trying to introduce English people to that food", and "Jolly" is more about "we're the ones trying out new food ourselves").
This is their introduction to Waffle House.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:57 AM on November 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
You may get a kick out of this - there's a pair of Youtube channels run by a couple of English guys, "Korean Englishman" and "Jolly", where they do a lot of food-and-adventures content. ("Korean Englishman" is more about "we're English dudes who are seriously into Korean food and we're trying to introduce English people to that food", and "Jolly" is more about "we're the ones trying out new food ourselves").
This is their introduction to Waffle House.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:57 AM on November 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
I've been getting a lot of these videos in my feed, "Brits trying x" and just realized it's also Jolly, so that's cool. I enjoy the ones where he lets British schoolkids try American fast food (e.g. Popeye's).
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:06 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:06 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
The condiment packs that have been used to mark food and not sent out with the plate are tossed in a plastic tub in the corner of the dirty side of the front sink. Before end of shift, the cook should take that tub to the back sink and repeat the washing process.
Thanks for this detail! It answers my question above about the sanitariness of handling all those packets over and over again.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:34 AM on November 13, 2023
Thanks for this detail! It answers my question above about the sanitariness of handling all those packets over and over again.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:34 AM on November 13, 2023
Jelly packets are used to mark eggs, btw, because eggs almost always come with toast, which is served with jelly anyway. Every sandwich is served with a mayo packet.
Ah, more of the seeming arbitrariness is stripped away. Thanks for all this.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:52 AM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ah, more of the seeming arbitrariness is stripped away. Thanks for all this.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:52 AM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ask for bar butter on your waffle
!
!!!
Like "Mexican cheese" at Taco Viva!
Yaaaaaaaay, thank you so much!
posted by Don Pepino at 9:24 AM on November 13, 2023
!
!!!
Like "Mexican cheese" at Taco Viva!
Yaaaaaaaay, thank you so much!
posted by Don Pepino at 9:24 AM on November 13, 2023
Yeah, I regret not going when I lived in Texas. I also missed out on Whataburger.
There are Waffle Hice in Texas, but it is really Dairy Queen country. When I lived there in the 1980s, it seemed like even the smallest towns would have two, one on either side of town on whatever the main highway was, much like Waffle House here in GA often has two location at busy interstate exits.
posted by TedW at 9:36 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
There are Waffle Hice in Texas, but it is really Dairy Queen country. When I lived there in the 1980s, it seemed like even the smallest towns would have two, one on either side of town on whatever the main highway was, much like Waffle House here in GA often has two location at busy interstate exits.
posted by TedW at 9:36 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is their introduction to Waffle House.
A shame they didn't show how that first drunken order was marked up!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:18 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
A shame they didn't show how that first drunken order was marked up!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:18 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've been getting a lot of these videos in my feed, "Brits trying x" and just realized it's also Jolly, so that's cool. I enjoy the ones where he lets British schoolkids try American fast food (e.g. Popeye's).
I think it was about a month after they came back from the "brits try waffle house" video that they released a similar British schoolboys try biscuits and gravy video. It's just a whole big perpetual-food-machine thing over there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:41 AM on November 13, 2023
I think it was about a month after they came back from the "brits try waffle house" video that they released a similar British schoolboys try biscuits and gravy video. It's just a whole big perpetual-food-machine thing over there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:41 AM on November 13, 2023
I'm just curious how he got a Popeye's Chicken Sandwich all the way over there in good condition. Or did the kids come here?
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:49 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:49 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I just sent this to my board game group with the caption Waffle House x Twilight Imperium.
posted by dngrangl at 1:18 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by dngrangl at 1:18 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
How coincidental: I watched that "UK schoolboys try biscuits and gravy" video months ago and I literally was thinking about it last night, i.e., how "biscuits" confused them and white gravy was unknown to them, so their initial response was WTF, Yuck! But when they learned what was actually in it, and tried it, they were all "OMG!" As they properly should be because biscuits and gravy are awesome.
So, I grew up in the 70s in a small town where my childhood was very Bradbury/Spielberg-esque (minus the supernatural but including the terror if you count my father) and I was a latchkey kid and roamed on my bike freely. I was also pretty independent, got along well with adults, and was mildly bold, so I'd end up in odd places meeting various people. The time-frame I'm talking about here was in the early seventies when I was eight or nine years years old.
This older couple had bought that One Building That Keeps Being Restaurants That Fail, opened yet another variety of restaurant with unwarranted optimism, and for some reason that I can't recall, I started to hang out there some afternoons. They were almost always completely empty.
Maybe the reason was that I was just hungry but had no money. The lady owner was concerned about me running around unsupervised and, apparently, quite hungry. She gave me free biscuits and gravy and that was the first time I'd ever had it. The town was in E. New Mexico, which is practically Texas, but I was born in and my family was all Albuquerque and nearby, which isn't at all like Texas. So biscuits and gravy had been previously unknown to me.
It was so good! I feel like I can remember how it tasted, even now. I don't eat biscuits and gravy that often, and never at home, but I really enjoy it. (Let's be honest: if the food is bad for your health, particularly a cardiovascular risk, it's probably one of my favorite things.)
After a few days hanging out there in the afternoons, the lady insisted that I call my mother and have the lady speak to her so she could be assured that, you know, everything was okay at home. And maybe guilt my mother about not feeding me or something. Mom came by after work and they met and talked in person. I would continue to visit from time to time but, like every one before it, that business failed.
But sitting at that counter eating hot biscuits and gravy with a nice lady gently quizzing me about my wellbeing is one of my warm fuzzy memories, even now, almost exactly fifty years later.
Epilogue: the next couple of years my preferred afternoon (and summer) hangout was at the games room in the student union building at the university, playing pinball. I became very good.
After I'd run out of money (my weekly allowance), I'd watch other players and occasionally pick up free games that they missed (from a 'match', usually).
The universally recognized pinball wizard thereabouts was a student named "Igor". He was a bit slovenly, seemed maybe a bit lonely, but what really stood out was that he was very skilled. One day, I was watching him play, was mildly critical of a decision, and he took great umbrage and challenged me to a duel. I agreed, but he'd have to pay.
I, a nine year old, won two of three matches against this university student who everybody agreed was the best pinball player, and lo it was a glorious day for me.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:00 AM on November 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
So, I grew up in the 70s in a small town where my childhood was very Bradbury/Spielberg-esque (minus the supernatural but including the terror if you count my father) and I was a latchkey kid and roamed on my bike freely. I was also pretty independent, got along well with adults, and was mildly bold, so I'd end up in odd places meeting various people. The time-frame I'm talking about here was in the early seventies when I was eight or nine years years old.
This older couple had bought that One Building That Keeps Being Restaurants That Fail, opened yet another variety of restaurant with unwarranted optimism, and for some reason that I can't recall, I started to hang out there some afternoons. They were almost always completely empty.
Maybe the reason was that I was just hungry but had no money. The lady owner was concerned about me running around unsupervised and, apparently, quite hungry. She gave me free biscuits and gravy and that was the first time I'd ever had it. The town was in E. New Mexico, which is practically Texas, but I was born in and my family was all Albuquerque and nearby, which isn't at all like Texas. So biscuits and gravy had been previously unknown to me.
It was so good! I feel like I can remember how it tasted, even now. I don't eat biscuits and gravy that often, and never at home, but I really enjoy it. (Let's be honest: if the food is bad for your health, particularly a cardiovascular risk, it's probably one of my favorite things.)
After a few days hanging out there in the afternoons, the lady insisted that I call my mother and have the lady speak to her so she could be assured that, you know, everything was okay at home. And maybe guilt my mother about not feeding me or something. Mom came by after work and they met and talked in person. I would continue to visit from time to time but, like every one before it, that business failed.
But sitting at that counter eating hot biscuits and gravy with a nice lady gently quizzing me about my wellbeing is one of my warm fuzzy memories, even now, almost exactly fifty years later.
Epilogue: the next couple of years my preferred afternoon (and summer) hangout was at the games room in the student union building at the university, playing pinball. I became very good.
After I'd run out of money (my weekly allowance), I'd watch other players and occasionally pick up free games that they missed (from a 'match', usually).
The universally recognized pinball wizard thereabouts was a student named "Igor". He was a bit slovenly, seemed maybe a bit lonely, but what really stood out was that he was very skilled. One day, I was watching him play, was mildly critical of a decision, and he took great umbrage and challenged me to a duel. I agreed, but he'd have to pay.
I, a nine year old, won two of three matches against this university student who everybody agreed was the best pinball player, and lo it was a glorious day for me.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:00 AM on November 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
Oh yes biscuits and gravy is the best thing ever. My go-to for restaurant breakfast. Canned biscuits and powdered gravy just doesn’t do it for me. But I hate the taste of American breakfast sausage, and I hate gravy made with breakfast sausage, so no biscuits and gravy from WH (or Denny’s or Braum’s or some specific diners in my hometown). IHOP’s gravy isn’t sausage gravy, so I always preferred IHOP growing up.
After much practice, I have learned to make biscuits from scratch, thank god. But I just can’t get the gravy to work. Luckily the powdered gravy tastes good enough with the homemade biscuits.
posted by LizBoBiz at 2:49 AM on November 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
After much practice, I have learned to make biscuits from scratch, thank god. But I just can’t get the gravy to work. Luckily the powdered gravy tastes good enough with the homemade biscuits.
posted by LizBoBiz at 2:49 AM on November 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you don't like sausage gravy, chicken gravy (broth + cornstarch slurry) works well too. I usually get some of that at the Pizza Ranch buffet if I'm there.
Milk/cream gravy (which is the base of sausage gravy and sawmill gravy) is just a thick White Sauce/bechemel.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 4:43 AM on November 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Milk/cream gravy (which is the base of sausage gravy and sawmill gravy) is just a thick White Sauce/bechemel.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 4:43 AM on November 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm so late to the party, but I need to know if they use Fahrenheit or Celsius and whether it's more or less intuitive with this ordering system.
posted by Snowishberlin at 5:33 AM on November 14, 2023
posted by Snowishberlin at 5:33 AM on November 14, 2023
One NYE in the 80s my family were on the road trying desperately to get to Nashville by midnight to celebrate with extended family but we failed and had to hurtle into a Waffle House at the last minute. We got in at like 11:55 and ordered food, but it was probably not pecan waffles or I would've been a much earlier convert. I don't remember details but I do remember that the Waffle House staff were wonderfully upbeat despite having their NYE ruined. They were very kind to us and whatever other sad highway vagabonds were there. They led us in a countdown and at midnight they turned the lights on and off really fast and everyone cheered. Waffle House may be open 24/7 365, but it's at disastertime when they really shine. It doesn't have to be a whole hurricane, either. It can be a personal disaster like a fast-approaching hangover or the staggering anhedonia associated with not doing NYE right. They're a true haven for poor planners.
Hey, does anyone know what is up with Huddle House? Why that name? Are they trying to get in on Waffle House's hard-earned clean, well-lighted place reputation? I used to try to grade papers at Huddle House, but Huddle House is kind of a miserable cold sty, so it didn't work at all. Waffle House would be a fantastic place to grade papers, but they didn't have one in the crappity lil town where I adjuncted for a million years.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:57 AM on November 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Hey, does anyone know what is up with Huddle House? Why that name? Are they trying to get in on Waffle House's hard-earned clean, well-lighted place reputation? I used to try to grade papers at Huddle House, but Huddle House is kind of a miserable cold sty, so it didn't work at all. Waffle House would be a fantastic place to grade papers, but they didn't have one in the crappity lil town where I adjuncted for a million years.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:57 AM on November 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
A towel used to dry dishes is much more likely to spread bacteria than to do anything good, so state food safety rules say not to.
Huh, I did not know this. I'll update accordingly
posted by Countess Elena at 7:30 AM on November 14, 2023
Huh, I did not know this. I'll update accordingly
posted by Countess Elena at 7:30 AM on November 14, 2023
Milk/cream gravy (which is the base of sausage gravy and sawmill gravy) is just a thick White Sauce/bechemel.
As I’ve mentioned before, my usual explanation to people who are confused as to why
posted by zamboni at 9:02 AM on November 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
As I’ve mentioned before, my usual explanation to people who are confused as to why
biscuits with sausage gravycontains no biscuits, sausages or gravy, is that it’s scones with peppery bechamel and ground pork, and that yes, I know, but try it anyway.
posted by zamboni at 9:02 AM on November 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
...chicken gravy (broth + cornstarch slurry) ...
Pardon me, but I feel like I have to get Appalachian here: chicken gravy is appropriately made AFTER having first made southern fried chicken, preferably with cornmeal/flour mixture in the breading of the chicken. Fry your chicken, then drain all but about three of tablespoons of the resultant deliciousness, making sure to leave as much of the browned battery bits as possible. Make a flour roux with this residue, browning until just slightly off-white. Then add whole milk to deglaze and scrape bottom of pan, incorporate the roux until smooth, and cook on low until thickened. Add salt and more black pepper than you think you need.
Eat slathered generously over either fresh OR leftover breakfast biscuits and a piece of the aforementioned fried chicken, preferably with a side of fresh green beans (boiled, with pork fat), mashed potatoes, turnip or collard greens, corn on the cob, or any other delicious thing that came from your garden.
posted by griffey at 5:41 PM on November 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Pardon me, but I feel like I have to get Appalachian here: chicken gravy is appropriately made AFTER having first made southern fried chicken, preferably with cornmeal/flour mixture in the breading of the chicken. Fry your chicken, then drain all but about three of tablespoons of the resultant deliciousness, making sure to leave as much of the browned battery bits as possible. Make a flour roux with this residue, browning until just slightly off-white. Then add whole milk to deglaze and scrape bottom of pan, incorporate the roux until smooth, and cook on low until thickened. Add salt and more black pepper than you think you need.
Eat slathered generously over either fresh OR leftover breakfast biscuits and a piece of the aforementioned fried chicken, preferably with a side of fresh green beans (boiled, with pork fat), mashed potatoes, turnip or collard greens, corn on the cob, or any other delicious thing that came from your garden.
posted by griffey at 5:41 PM on November 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've eaten at all three Hice: Waffle, Huddle and International of Pancakes, so I can fill people in on differences.
IHOP is the most like a normal restaurant. There is a vogue these days of places to pretend to be diners, which IHOP falls prey to a bit. Dennys particularly wants to be seen as one. Thing is, diners are traditionally really cheap and greasy places. They get their name from diner train cars, which you could purchase by mail and have delivered to you by train, then dragged to the place where they were to be stationed. In this way diners proliferated across the United States, and I've heard that there are even still a few of that style in operation today, although I have no proof.
While they don't sell diner train cars any more (that I know of!), that general form became the template for that whole category of restaurant. Waffle Houses in particular, with their two floor plans (I've heard them described as left-handed and right-handed), seem like they are following that concept consciously.
So, IHOPs are essentially just a restaurant chain with a breakfast theme. Waffle Houses are a diner chain. Huddle House is also a diner chain, although one a bit less idiosyncratic than Casa del Gofre. Their layouts are a bit more varied, as are their menus. Sometimes a Huddle House will have TVs in its dining room, while no Waffle I've ever seen has a TV. (Except for one in Atlanta, which seemed to be a corporate installation, and showed an endless feed of Waffle House facts--its floor plan was also not one of the two Waffle House styles, it was atypical in a lot of ways). Huddle House gets its name from a vague sort of football theme, which isn't as evident as it once was, but once in while you can still spot a quote from Vince Lombardi on a restroom wall.
Another reason I tend to prefer Huddle House is they have wifi for customers, something Waffle Houses just don't do. I'm one of those loathed diner patrons who will sit for a long time, working on things like Metafilter posts, getting drink refills. The place where I live currently is not a good place to work from, and I try to be at other places as much as I can. (I'm generally self-conscious about this, and try not to go to places that don't like long-seated customers, and I don't stick around at busy times.)
Waffle House also doesn't do french fries; Huddle House's vibe is more burgery, and less focused on breakfast food. I think, but am not sure, that they serve waffles.
posted by JHarris at 2:26 AM on November 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
IHOP is the most like a normal restaurant. There is a vogue these days of places to pretend to be diners, which IHOP falls prey to a bit. Dennys particularly wants to be seen as one. Thing is, diners are traditionally really cheap and greasy places. They get their name from diner train cars, which you could purchase by mail and have delivered to you by train, then dragged to the place where they were to be stationed. In this way diners proliferated across the United States, and I've heard that there are even still a few of that style in operation today, although I have no proof.
While they don't sell diner train cars any more (that I know of!), that general form became the template for that whole category of restaurant. Waffle Houses in particular, with their two floor plans (I've heard them described as left-handed and right-handed), seem like they are following that concept consciously.
So, IHOPs are essentially just a restaurant chain with a breakfast theme. Waffle Houses are a diner chain. Huddle House is also a diner chain, although one a bit less idiosyncratic than Casa del Gofre. Their layouts are a bit more varied, as are their menus. Sometimes a Huddle House will have TVs in its dining room, while no Waffle I've ever seen has a TV. (Except for one in Atlanta, which seemed to be a corporate installation, and showed an endless feed of Waffle House facts--its floor plan was also not one of the two Waffle House styles, it was atypical in a lot of ways). Huddle House gets its name from a vague sort of football theme, which isn't as evident as it once was, but once in while you can still spot a quote from Vince Lombardi on a restroom wall.
Another reason I tend to prefer Huddle House is they have wifi for customers, something Waffle Houses just don't do. I'm one of those loathed diner patrons who will sit for a long time, working on things like Metafilter posts, getting drink refills. The place where I live currently is not a good place to work from, and I try to be at other places as much as I can. (I'm generally self-conscious about this, and try not to go to places that don't like long-seated customers, and I don't stick around at busy times.)
Waffle House also doesn't do french fries; Huddle House's vibe is more burgery, and less focused on breakfast food. I think, but am not sure, that they serve waffles.
posted by JHarris at 2:26 AM on November 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
Casa del Gofre
hee hee hee
I often refer to it as La Maison du Waffél, a very road-trip joke
I always had the impression that Huddle House had to have been a part of Waffle House that was split off due to some corporate dispute or merger and that was the reason it could look almost exactly but not quite like the WH. But this doesn't seem to be the case.
The last time I was at a Waffle House -- or at least the last time I paid attention there -- the only music was a Waffle House-themed soundtrack that they were offering for sale and on the jukebox. Usually when I am there I have an intense, medical-level need for the coffee and/or food, so quiet was best, and I appreciated that there was no TV.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:00 AM on November 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
hee hee hee
I often refer to it as La Maison du Waffél, a very road-trip joke
I always had the impression that Huddle House had to have been a part of Waffle House that was split off due to some corporate dispute or merger and that was the reason it could look almost exactly but not quite like the WH. But this doesn't seem to be the case.
The last time I was at a Waffle House -- or at least the last time I paid attention there -- the only music was a Waffle House-themed soundtrack that they were offering for sale and on the jukebox. Usually when I am there I have an intense, medical-level need for the coffee and/or food, so quiet was best, and I appreciated that there was no TV.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:00 AM on November 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Alas! Our nearest Waffle House has a potentially very loud jukebox that's LOADED with Moaning White Boy Country (Toby Keith being a major practitioner), and frequently played at that. It's been so loud that I couldn't exist in that space, and at least one employee likes to put it in, judging by how she hums along with them whenever they're being emitted.
posted by JHarris at 7:44 PM on November 15, 2023
posted by JHarris at 7:44 PM on November 15, 2023
Dennys particularly wants to be seen as one.
Even though I'm from the mid-Atlantic, I've somehow never heard of Huddle House. In the past, however, Huddle Restaurants were Googie Symbols of California. Maybe not familiar with this term, nowadays so easily confused with the search engine; read about Googie architecture at Wikipedia, and in Alan Hess' book. Restaurants in this style were commonly the type known then as coffee shops, and Denny's was one of the first, and the best. Tragic IMO how they've lost their way, putting on this 'diner' moniker when their heritage is so much more.
no Waffle I've ever seen has a TV.
Another reason I'm a fan. Of Waffles. And Waffle House, too. Which incorporates a bit of Googie styling: those globular frosted-glass light fixtures.
posted by Rash at 12:15 PM on November 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Even though I'm from the mid-Atlantic, I've somehow never heard of Huddle House. In the past, however, Huddle Restaurants were Googie Symbols of California. Maybe not familiar with this term, nowadays so easily confused with the search engine; read about Googie architecture at Wikipedia, and in Alan Hess' book. Restaurants in this style were commonly the type known then as coffee shops, and Denny's was one of the first, and the best. Tragic IMO how they've lost their way, putting on this 'diner' moniker when their heritage is so much more.
no Waffle I've ever seen has a TV.
Another reason I'm a fan. Of Waffles. And Waffle House, too. Which incorporates a bit of Googie styling: those globular frosted-glass light fixtures.
posted by Rash at 12:15 PM on November 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ah, a listicle of railcar diners still in operation!
posted by JHarris at 3:46 PM on November 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 3:46 PM on November 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
the servers we had that day made less than 800 dollars in tips
Is there a system - official or otherwise - to ensure the kitchen staff get a share of this cash?
[Terrific thread, by the way - thank you, Vigilant.]
posted by Paul Slade at 8:43 AM on November 19, 2023
Is there a system - official or otherwise - to ensure the kitchen staff get a share of this cash?
[Terrific thread, by the way - thank you, Vigilant.]
posted by Paul Slade at 8:43 AM on November 19, 2023
Not in my experience. (Please keep in mind my experience is 25 years old). But there are reasons for that. Excruciating detail to follow - if I can explain it clearly, I hope it will make sense that it's not terribly unfair.
First it's important to understand how staffing levels are calculated. At the time that I was there, you'd have one server scheduled for every 250-350 dollars expected sales for that shift. Those servers got paid $2.13 per hour plus tips. So on a slower than expected shift, servers would be running short, and hope to make it up on the other shifts that week.
Cooks, on the other hand, once fully trained, were generally paid between $1.50-4.00 above minimum wage as a base rate, depending on years of service and performance reviews. In addition, if the shift "made sales", i.e. met or exceeded the expected sales, there would be a progressive bonus to the cook's pay. In my day, there would be one cook scheduled for up to an 1000 dollar expected sales shift. Two after that, up to 1800. Two and a half up to 2500.
Now, hourly cooks could and did earn direct tips. I certainly did before I got my own store. If you were good at making the food tasty but not too greasy, if you had flair, if you remembered the little flourishes that regulars liked, you could make a little cash especially on busy days. My thing was syncing my cooking to the jukebox. Turning food on the downbeat of the song playing, doing fancy flips, doing little dance steps as I moved from one end of the line to another, singing the callback to the server in tune with the music - that sort of thing could earn me five or ten dollar tips from the grill. It was also really common for cooks to get tips on holidays from the regulars. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Mother's Day, new Year's Eve, anytime the customer would feel a little guilty that you were working to feed them, tips for cooks would flow in, not from every table, but enough to make a really nice bonus.
So the cook might get a tip on top of a full wage and possible bonus for spending max 7 minutes on a table. The server would spend twenty minutes at least looking after that table, plus bussing and washing their dishes, and most likely get a tip on their 2.13 an hour.
In the event it was a busy enough shift (generally 1500 or.more), a hostess might be on shift for the busiest four hours. Their job would be to open the door, seat incoming customers in order, help bus tables and check the bathrooms from time to time for tidiness. If it got slammed enough that the hostess was needed to wash dishes, there was an informal tipping out from the servers on top of the minimum wage. (Hosts or hostesses were often half trained servers, high school kids 14-15, or employees that had moved on to a better job but still wanted some predictable extra cash)
Working holidays was mandatory, and everybody got paid time and a half. For servers, this meant a whopping $1.07 added to the hourly wage, so they had to hope for the sympathy bump to tips. For cooks, at the time, this was an extra 3.75+ per hour.
Now, the truly busy shifts where I worked were all mornings. Third shift would get rushes after bar close on weekends, but that was an hour or two max. It was weekend and holiday mornings that the place would fill up and stay full for four-five hours. And on those shifts, the lead cook was always the store manager.
Salary employees (store manager and above) were not permitted to accept tips. In practice, what that meant was that tips given to the manager would be split between all the hourly employees at end of shift.
Which brings us back around to that hurricane day I described above. On that day, all four cooks were salaried. We did get tips that day - people were just about throwing money at us in gratitude for hot fresh food - but we couldn't keep any of it. So we managers pooled our tips and split them between the hostess and dishwasher. We knew the servers had made good money, and felt everyone should be rewarded for hard work. This was informal, but standard in our area.
Just a couple final notes. This was back when Waffle House did not accept cards of any kind. Cash, local check or traveler's cheque only. So this kind of distribution was easy to do. I don't know how they do it now.
And also, because it was mostly a cash business back then, all hourly employees were paid on Sunday afternoon out of the weekend till. They'd get pay stubs, cash counted out by the manager in view of at least one other person for verification of accuracy. Again, because they now do take cards, I assume there might have been some changes.
Thank all y'all! This has been a fun trip down memory lane (with a large helping of 'thank all gods ever dreamed of that I don't have to do that anymore')!
posted by Vigilant at 12:24 PM on November 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
First it's important to understand how staffing levels are calculated. At the time that I was there, you'd have one server scheduled for every 250-350 dollars expected sales for that shift. Those servers got paid $2.13 per hour plus tips. So on a slower than expected shift, servers would be running short, and hope to make it up on the other shifts that week.
Cooks, on the other hand, once fully trained, were generally paid between $1.50-4.00 above minimum wage as a base rate, depending on years of service and performance reviews. In addition, if the shift "made sales", i.e. met or exceeded the expected sales, there would be a progressive bonus to the cook's pay. In my day, there would be one cook scheduled for up to an 1000 dollar expected sales shift. Two after that, up to 1800. Two and a half up to 2500.
Now, hourly cooks could and did earn direct tips. I certainly did before I got my own store. If you were good at making the food tasty but not too greasy, if you had flair, if you remembered the little flourishes that regulars liked, you could make a little cash especially on busy days. My thing was syncing my cooking to the jukebox. Turning food on the downbeat of the song playing, doing fancy flips, doing little dance steps as I moved from one end of the line to another, singing the callback to the server in tune with the music - that sort of thing could earn me five or ten dollar tips from the grill. It was also really common for cooks to get tips on holidays from the regulars. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Mother's Day, new Year's Eve, anytime the customer would feel a little guilty that you were working to feed them, tips for cooks would flow in, not from every table, but enough to make a really nice bonus.
So the cook might get a tip on top of a full wage and possible bonus for spending max 7 minutes on a table. The server would spend twenty minutes at least looking after that table, plus bussing and washing their dishes, and most likely get a tip on their 2.13 an hour.
In the event it was a busy enough shift (generally 1500 or.more), a hostess might be on shift for the busiest four hours. Their job would be to open the door, seat incoming customers in order, help bus tables and check the bathrooms from time to time for tidiness. If it got slammed enough that the hostess was needed to wash dishes, there was an informal tipping out from the servers on top of the minimum wage. (Hosts or hostesses were often half trained servers, high school kids 14-15, or employees that had moved on to a better job but still wanted some predictable extra cash)
Working holidays was mandatory, and everybody got paid time and a half. For servers, this meant a whopping $1.07 added to the hourly wage, so they had to hope for the sympathy bump to tips. For cooks, at the time, this was an extra 3.75+ per hour.
Now, the truly busy shifts where I worked were all mornings. Third shift would get rushes after bar close on weekends, but that was an hour or two max. It was weekend and holiday mornings that the place would fill up and stay full for four-five hours. And on those shifts, the lead cook was always the store manager.
Salary employees (store manager and above) were not permitted to accept tips. In practice, what that meant was that tips given to the manager would be split between all the hourly employees at end of shift.
Which brings us back around to that hurricane day I described above. On that day, all four cooks were salaried. We did get tips that day - people were just about throwing money at us in gratitude for hot fresh food - but we couldn't keep any of it. So we managers pooled our tips and split them between the hostess and dishwasher. We knew the servers had made good money, and felt everyone should be rewarded for hard work. This was informal, but standard in our area.
Just a couple final notes. This was back when Waffle House did not accept cards of any kind. Cash, local check or traveler's cheque only. So this kind of distribution was easy to do. I don't know how they do it now.
And also, because it was mostly a cash business back then, all hourly employees were paid on Sunday afternoon out of the weekend till. They'd get pay stubs, cash counted out by the manager in view of at least one other person for verification of accuracy. Again, because they now do take cards, I assume there might have been some changes.
Thank all y'all! This has been a fun trip down memory lane (with a large helping of 'thank all gods ever dreamed of that I don't have to do that anymore')!
posted by Vigilant at 12:24 PM on November 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
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I also have this horrific image of a tyrannical assistant manager going ballistic at some new employee because they don’t know all the codes yet.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:27 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]