The Crimson Tide washes up some guppies
December 6, 2023 4:33 PM Subscribe
Tonight at 8PM Eastern: The fourth Republican presidential debate -- and the last one before next month's Iowa caucuses. Currently winnowed to just four candidates (and once again missing its runaway favorite), the NewsNation-hosted debate at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa (roll tide), will feature Gov. Nikki "Koch Fiend" Haley, Gov. Ron "Poop Map" DeSantis, Gov. Chris "Just Happy to Be Here" Christie, and entrepreneur Vivek "Pharma Bro Bro" Ramaswamy. You can catch the debate live on NewsNation (or The CW), stream it for free on the NewsNation site, download their app, or check out a minimal-commentary livestream from YouTuber David Pakman.
It's such a fascinating exercise of Completely Meaningless combined with Can't Look Away Like It's A Bad Accident You're Driving By. Ramaswamy's continued appeal mystifies me because he's SO unappealing but he's playing a Dinner Theater Trump convincingly enough that he's holding on. The others... are all former governors and everyone hopes one of them could replace Trump. I'm personally rooting for Christie even though he's not running to win, and he's not here to make friends, he's just here to keep Speaking Truth About Trump Every Time All The Time.
He's getting friends now, though. Liz Cheney's book tour is turning into a Christie-esque continued denunciation. The Atlantic just published an entire issue devoted to how awful Trump will be; i might buy a few copies to hand out.
But I digress... This debate will be well covered, and I cannot bring myself to watch it. And yes, it is actually consequential, because it's one of the few events bringing Republican election policies into any kind of public forum. Trump has no policy, but if he gets brought down [Ed. note: at this point, the author went to the altar in his closet and lit another candle] someone will have to replace him.
posted by hippybear at 4:40 PM on December 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
He's getting friends now, though. Liz Cheney's book tour is turning into a Christie-esque continued denunciation. The Atlantic just published an entire issue devoted to how awful Trump will be; i might buy a few copies to hand out.
But I digress... This debate will be well covered, and I cannot bring myself to watch it. And yes, it is actually consequential, because it's one of the few events bringing Republican election policies into any kind of public forum. Trump has no policy, but if he gets brought down [Ed. note: at this point, the author went to the altar in his closet and lit another candle] someone will have to replace him.
posted by hippybear at 4:40 PM on December 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Alas, there’s a new Celebrity Jeopardy at 8:00 tonight. Otherwise, I’d for sure tune-in, you betcha.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:55 PM on December 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:55 PM on December 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
12 minutes in and Chris Christie hasn't spoken a word yet, bless his heart.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:13 PM on December 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 5:13 PM on December 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
Or you could get a brick and pound your head with it instead, which would be much less painful and most likely better for you in the long run. Just a thought.
posted by Metacircular at 5:17 PM on December 6, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by Metacircular at 5:17 PM on December 6, 2023 [16 favorites]
I guess we are all supposed to still pretend the Republican Party is not a criminal conspiracy organization. Oh well.
posted by Goofyy at 5:17 PM on December 6, 2023 [33 favorites]
posted by Goofyy at 5:17 PM on December 6, 2023 [33 favorites]
May they all step in a bathroom shower puddle when still in socks.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:19 PM on December 6, 2023 [28 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 5:19 PM on December 6, 2023 [28 favorites]
You want to see some real sweat, ask the field, "If Trump were removed from the ballot under the 14th amendment, would you support his write in campaign as the dominant candidate most likely to beat Biden?" or some such thing that's better crafted. They're all there in case he's turfed from the ballot, dies, or is jailed.
posted by Slackermagee at 5:20 PM on December 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 5:20 PM on December 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
Christie finally gets a turn and uses it to blast as dictatorial and unfit the frontrunner that everyone else has studiously ignored. Gets a surprising amount of applause (and no boos) from the invitation-only crowd of Alabama Republicans.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:22 PM on December 6, 2023 [24 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 5:22 PM on December 6, 2023 [24 favorites]
"What Hamas did to Israel was medieval," says man who has called for putting Palestinian heads on pikes.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:25 PM on December 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 5:25 PM on December 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
May they all step in a bathroom shower puddle when still in socks.
*scatters lego bricks on tiled floor around bathroom puddle*
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:27 PM on December 6, 2023 [25 favorites]
*scatters lego bricks on tiled floor around bathroom puddle*
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:27 PM on December 6, 2023 [25 favorites]
Rhaomi, thanks for posting these links. I watched the Newsom/DeSantis debate, and Ron really knows how to put the shit in shitshow.
posted by effluvia at 5:28 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by effluvia at 5:28 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm personally rooting for Christie...
Amen.
posted by y2karl at 5:40 PM on December 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Amen.
posted by y2karl at 5:40 PM on December 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Watching it, oh lord. Currently loving Chris Christie [???] for using his complete lack of a chance to trash trump. I hope they let him speak a second time...
posted by supermedusa at 5:51 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 5:51 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'll say one thing for this debate: it's refreshing having the field winnowed to the point that candidates can actually speak sedate, coherent bullshit instead of desperately cross-talking, crabs-in-a-bucket bullshit. (Tbh felt the same way about the 20+ candidate Dem debates, albeit with marginally less bullshit.)
posted by Rhaomi at 5:55 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 5:55 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Just joining. Pakman: "I expect we'll see a lot of nonsense in the coming hour."
Thanks for posting, Rhaomi!
posted by mochapickle at 5:59 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Thanks for posting, Rhaomi!
posted by mochapickle at 5:59 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Fascism is out on full display.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:09 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:09 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
instead of desperately cross-talking
Spoke too soon.
posted by mochapickle at 6:10 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Spoke too soon.
posted by mochapickle at 6:10 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Well that was a fuckin whipsaw of a half-hour. Ramaswamy spouting Great Replacement and Big Lie conspiracies, Megyn Kelly asking a disgustingly transphobic question, Christie responding with surprising tolerance (though from a "parent's rights" POV). Christie then asked about how to restore faith in the justice system and disappointingly doesn't respond with "by not committing a bunch of obvious crimes and calling the indictments persecution."
Also lol at all the TikTok ads during the break, they really target these GOP debates every time.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:32 PM on December 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
Also lol at all the TikTok ads during the break, they really target these GOP debates every time.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:32 PM on December 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
DeSantis: "The problem is that people don't have access to affordable healthcare."
[five seconds later]
"Florida has not expanded Medicaid under Obamacare and I'm proud of that."
Also, Martin Shkreli patron Ramaswamy criticizes crony capitalism in the healthcare industry.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:45 PM on December 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
[five seconds later]
"Florida has not expanded Medicaid under Obamacare and I'm proud of that."
Also, Martin Shkreli patron Ramaswamy criticizes crony capitalism in the healthcare industry.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:45 PM on December 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
They're all there in case he's turfed from the ballot, dies, or is jailed.
Don't forget angling for exposure for many many other grifts.
posted by lalochezia at 6:46 PM on December 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Don't forget angling for exposure for many many other grifts.
posted by lalochezia at 6:46 PM on December 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Ramaswamy spouting Great Replacement and Big Lie conspiracies
it just boggles the mind.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:54 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
it just boggles the mind.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:54 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
DeSantis really pandering to all the hardcore Coolidge stans out there.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:55 PM on December 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 6:55 PM on December 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Has DeSantis managed to not try to smile? Because he's really really creepy when he tries to smile.
posted by hippybear at 6:57 PM on December 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 6:57 PM on December 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
They're all there in case he's turfed from the ballot, dies, or is jailed.
I assumed they are all just there in case one of the last two happens and they're VP at the time.
posted by dg at 6:57 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I assumed they are all just there in case one of the last two happens and they're VP at the time.
posted by dg at 6:57 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Christie: "Everyone needs to be responsible for their own conduct, including the president."
posted by mochapickle at 6:57 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 6:57 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Shorter Ramaswamy: "We need a young president like me to lead us into a bright future. Also climate change is a hoax btw."
posted by Rhaomi at 6:58 PM on December 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 6:58 PM on December 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
Otis just pulled in on a motorcycle hand cuffed to a typewriter. Grandpa Munster kidnapped Tom and Arnold is informing zsa-zsa that something's amiss.
posted by clavdivs at 6:58 PM on December 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:58 PM on December 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
Because Ratings! (...we can sell ad spots, so of course)
posted by Fupped Duck at 7:15 PM on December 6, 2023
posted by Fupped Duck at 7:15 PM on December 6, 2023
Give him a lonely heart like Pagliacci
And lots of wavy hair like Liberace
Mr. Sandman, someone to hold (someone to hold)
posted by clavdivs at 7:28 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
And lots of wavy hair like Liberace
Mr. Sandman, someone to hold (someone to hold)
posted by clavdivs at 7:28 PM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
To be clear, NewsNation as a network as at their peak had fewer than 70,000 viewers at once, ever.
So this isn't about selling to advertisers.
posted by hippybear at 7:31 PM on December 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
So this isn't about selling to advertisers.
posted by hippybear at 7:31 PM on December 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is about “well, we’ve always done it this way, and so we’re going to do it again, and we have absolutely no imagination about how we might do it differently.”
posted by Melismata at 7:37 PM on December 6, 2023
posted by Melismata at 7:37 PM on December 6, 2023
I'm fairly certain holding four debates between candidates who have all been trailing by, at best, 20 points and now are mostly trailing by 40 points.. and treating those debates like they will actually matter to the outcome of the election... is actually a full on exercise of imagination.
posted by hippybear at 7:46 PM on December 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:46 PM on December 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
┌────────────────────────────────────┐ | | | | | | | | | | | 💩 💩 💩 💩 | | ┌─┐ ┌─┐ ┌─┐ ┌─┐ | | │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ | | | | | └────────────────────────────────────┘posted by torokunai at 8:12 PM on December 6, 2023 [29 favorites]
┌────────────────────────────────────┐
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| 💩 💩 💩 💩 |
| ┌─┐ ┌─┐ ┌─┐ ┌─┐ |
| │
I like how as the podiums go further right, the tops split til the last emoji falls to the floor.
posted by clavdivs at 8:31 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| 💩 💩 💩 💩 |
| ┌─┐ ┌─┐ ┌─┐ ┌─┐ |
| │
I like how as the podiums go further right, the tops split til the last emoji falls to the floor.
posted by clavdivs at 8:31 PM on December 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I assumed they are all just there in case one of the last two happens and they're VP at the time.
Nah, not a one of them expects or even hopes to be VP - they all know damn well that Trump is a vengeful narcissist and that even "running against" him in this joke of a primary is an unacceptable betrayal. He'll never pick one of them. They really are just sticking around on the chance that he strokes out before Nov. 5 2024.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:39 PM on December 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
Nah, not a one of them expects or even hopes to be VP - they all know damn well that Trump is a vengeful narcissist and that even "running against" him in this joke of a primary is an unacceptable betrayal. He'll never pick one of them. They really are just sticking around on the chance that he strokes out before Nov. 5 2024.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:39 PM on December 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
Everybody knows that stroke was rigged.
posted by flabdablet at 10:26 PM on December 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 10:26 PM on December 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I just hope we get to see if the Republicans would actually go with a candidate who's literally in jail at the time of the election.
posted by mathw at 1:29 AM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mathw at 1:29 AM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Carceral reform for me but not for thee would be totally on-brand.
posted by flabdablet at 2:50 AM on December 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 2:50 AM on December 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
Republican debates are like watching a train wreck where you hate all the passengers.
posted by jadepearl at 5:17 AM on December 7, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by jadepearl at 5:17 AM on December 7, 2023 [25 favorites]
Nah, not a one of them expects or even hopes to be VP - they all know damn well that Trump is a vengeful narcissist and that even "running against" him in this joke of a primary is an unacceptable betrayal. He'll never pick one of them. They really are just sticking around on the chance that he strokes out before Nov. 5 2024.
I doubt he'll get picked, but Ramaswamy has definitely not been running against Trump in any meaningful sense and I don't think has said or done anything to try and create space between him and Trump or as criticism of Trump. All the others are on the shit list for sure, though.
And yes, that's why they are all hanging in there and (aside from Christie) mostly trying not to piss off the MAGA crowd too much, in case Trump miraculously strokes out, or goes to jail, or somehow (as if, won't happen) crosses some line that is finally too far even for his base. They all have hot sweaty fantasies at night about that kind of outside intervention removing him from the field, so that one of them can suddenly rise from the ashes of distant second place to the lead.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 AM on December 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
I doubt he'll get picked, but Ramaswamy has definitely not been running against Trump in any meaningful sense and I don't think has said or done anything to try and create space between him and Trump or as criticism of Trump. All the others are on the shit list for sure, though.
And yes, that's why they are all hanging in there and (aside from Christie) mostly trying not to piss off the MAGA crowd too much, in case Trump miraculously strokes out, or goes to jail, or somehow (as if, won't happen) crosses some line that is finally too far even for his base. They all have hot sweaty fantasies at night about that kind of outside intervention removing him from the field, so that one of them can suddenly rise from the ashes of distant second place to the lead.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 AM on December 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Republican debates are like watching a train wreck where you hate all the passengers.
An inverse trolley problem.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:13 AM on December 7, 2023 [19 favorites]
An inverse trolley problem.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:13 AM on December 7, 2023 [19 favorites]
where the trolley has been running inverted for decades at this point, and the pressing question is not which track to direct it down in order to injure the fewest people, but how the fuck to get all its passengers back on it.
posted by flabdablet at 6:20 AM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 6:20 AM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
it's like a job interview for who gets to go in front of a future military tribunal first
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:06 AM on December 7, 2023
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:06 AM on December 7, 2023
You know Chris Christie is lying, right? He is not a voice of reason, he would jump at the chance to be Trump's VP. It's all an act to keep himself on TV.
On Christie, from November 2021: Christie, who's gaming out a possible run for president in 2024, said he still considers Trump a friend, and still would have supported him over President Biden.
posted by armacy at 7:46 AM on December 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
On Christie, from November 2021: Christie, who's gaming out a possible run for president in 2024, said he still considers Trump a friend, and still would have supported him over President Biden.
posted by armacy at 7:46 AM on December 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
If Christie campaigns for Biden once Trump has the nomination, then I'll (grudgingly) call him brave. He's not risking shit here.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:53 AM on December 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:53 AM on December 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
An inverse trolley problem
A trolley opportunity!
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:46 AM on December 7, 2023 [34 favorites]
A trolley opportunity!
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:46 AM on December 7, 2023 [34 favorites]
If Christie campaigns for Biden
Does that help or hurt Biden?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:48 AM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Does that help or hurt Biden?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:48 AM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Haley assured Republican voters that she’s anti-trans, calling trans girls’ participation in sports “the women's issue of our time.”
😵💫
posted by spamandkimchi at 8:54 AM on December 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
😵💫
posted by spamandkimchi at 8:54 AM on December 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
Fourth Republican debate serves up most transphobia so far (The Advocate)
Ron DeSantis leads anti-trans attacks (PinkNews)
GOP Candidates competed on who's most transphobic (Mother Jones)
(cw, lots of transphobia)
posted by box at 9:02 AM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ron DeSantis leads anti-trans attacks (PinkNews)
GOP Candidates competed on who's most transphobic (Mother Jones)
(cw, lots of transphobia)
posted by box at 9:02 AM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m sending a special one digit wave to Megyn Kelly for her insanely, incredibly transphobic and full of lies question to Christie, presumably from the upper offices of the cesspool she works for. They are really pushing the demonization of trans people as the first part of their great distraction, aren’t they?
posted by mephron at 10:05 AM on December 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by mephron at 10:05 AM on December 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
the right's focus on trans people is alarmingly and depressingly effective
it is hateful sleight of hand
posted by elkevelvet at 10:50 AM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
it is hateful sleight of hand
posted by elkevelvet at 10:50 AM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
On Christie, from November 2021:
Oh c'mon-- I'm calling bullshit on that! 2021 is not 2023. For all his manifold sins and faults, Christie burnt that bridge long before he could ever cross it.
posted by y2karl at 12:15 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh c'mon-- I'm calling bullshit on that! 2021 is not 2023. For all his manifold sins and faults, Christie burnt that bridge long before he could ever cross it.
posted by y2karl at 12:15 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Did the fourth Republican debate matter? [35m] FiveThirtyEight Politics Podcast does some wrap-up analysis. I've enjoyed their podcast across the past while.
posted by hippybear at 1:07 PM on December 7, 2023
posted by hippybear at 1:07 PM on December 7, 2023
I’m sending a special one digit wave to Megyn Kelly for her insanely, incredibly transphobic and full of lies question to Christie, presumably from the upper offices of the cesspool she works for.
Nope, that's all on Kelly - AFAICT she doesn't work for anyone but herself. She left Fox in 2017 when her contract was up, moved to NBC for about a year & got booted while keeping the remaining $30 million of her contracted pay, and now does a talk show & podcast on Sirius XM.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:45 PM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Nope, that's all on Kelly - AFAICT she doesn't work for anyone but herself. She left Fox in 2017 when her contract was up, moved to NBC for about a year & got booted while keeping the remaining $30 million of her contracted pay, and now does a talk show & podcast on Sirius XM.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:45 PM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Freedom to pursue hatred is apparently the core issue at stake.
So many great feels here to know how many votes this brings in.
posted by allium cepa at 3:03 PM on December 7, 2023
So many great feels here to know how many votes this brings in.
posted by allium cepa at 3:03 PM on December 7, 2023
Christie burnt that bridge long before he could ever cross it.
maybe he should have shut it down first
posted by kokaku at 3:40 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
maybe he should have shut it down first
posted by kokaku at 3:40 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Because he's really really creepy when he tries to smile.
To be fair he's also really really creepy making any other expression, and probably looks like a dick when he sleeps.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:58 AM on December 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
To be fair he's also really really creepy making any other expression, and probably looks like a dick when he sleeps.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:58 AM on December 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
« Older experiencing diaspora as an unexpected... | TV legend Norman Lear dies at 101 Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Rhaomi at 4:33 PM on December 6, 2023 [22 favorites]