Not 2S3XY
April 5, 2024 1:23 PM Subscribe
After an announcement at the Tesla January earnings call introducing the Model 2 as an upcoming mass market priced model (that would require workers to sleep at the factory), reports are that the new model is being cancelled in light of increasing competition in the Chinese EV market.
The past few months have been difficult for the EV manufacturer, as softening demand - both for EVs in general and for Tesla’s vehicles in particular - has impacted earnings reports for the company. The Cybertruck - released several years late and at a higher than anticipated price point - is seeing a number of reports of malfunctions and failures by owners. The Model 2, which was slated for 2025, was meant to be a mass market model starting at around $25k - however the company has been facing stiff competition from companies like BYD in China, which are selling their own EV models at $10k, which seems to have prompted the cancelation.
The past few months have been difficult for the EV manufacturer, as softening demand - both for EVs in general and for Tesla’s vehicles in particular - has impacted earnings reports for the company. The Cybertruck - released several years late and at a higher than anticipated price point - is seeing a number of reports of malfunctions and failures by owners. The Model 2, which was slated for 2025, was meant to be a mass market model starting at around $25k - however the company has been facing stiff competition from companies like BYD in China, which are selling their own EV models at $10k, which seems to have prompted the cancelation.
My thoughts about this don't really have much to do with Elon or the Cybertruck or robotaxis, which are a bunch of distractions from the core issue.
BYD bringing $10k EVs to the US market would be a serious disruptive threat to the entire US car industry who are still completely locked into a trajectory of making bigger and bigger vehicles, mostly trucks and SUVs, and pulling back on BEV plans to do hybrids (or quietly not even that) under the belief that "that's what the US market wants".
If they are wrong about what the market wants, something like the BYD Seagull could absolutely eat their lunch. The federal government does sound very willing to be protectionist, *especially* against China, but BYD can set up shop in Mexico and make that more difficult - and also, when the price delta is so large, small or medium sized tariffs won't be enough to stop them from winning. This could be another "Japanese cars taking over the US market in the 1980s" moment.
Tesla was probably the best positioned to fight that battle (because they make so many batteries already), so if they give up that is a very strong signal that no one else is even going to try. There are also serious issues with the dealership model, which Tesla highlighted by selling direct to consumers - and that can be exploited by other new entrants to the market who aren't tied to that model.
posted by allegedly at 1:45 PM on April 5 [33 favorites]
BYD bringing $10k EVs to the US market would be a serious disruptive threat to the entire US car industry who are still completely locked into a trajectory of making bigger and bigger vehicles, mostly trucks and SUVs, and pulling back on BEV plans to do hybrids (or quietly not even that) under the belief that "that's what the US market wants".
If they are wrong about what the market wants, something like the BYD Seagull could absolutely eat their lunch. The federal government does sound very willing to be protectionist, *especially* against China, but BYD can set up shop in Mexico and make that more difficult - and also, when the price delta is so large, small or medium sized tariffs won't be enough to stop them from winning. This could be another "Japanese cars taking over the US market in the 1980s" moment.
Tesla was probably the best positioned to fight that battle (because they make so many batteries already), so if they give up that is a very strong signal that no one else is even going to try. There are also serious issues with the dealership model, which Tesla highlighted by selling direct to consumers - and that can be exploited by other new entrants to the market who aren't tied to that model.
posted by allegedly at 1:45 PM on April 5 [33 favorites]
Even with outrageous tariffs, Chinese EVs are extremely competitive and will be very difficult to compete with. Not to mention the well of ill will musk draws from daily to prove he's a cool dude somehow.
posted by 2N2222 at 1:47 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 1:47 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
I feel like it’s really time for a small and cheap EV the size of a Mini or Smart Car to pwn the urban and near urban market. 200km on a charge and weather protection, cheap insurance because it won’t go fast, easy to park in a small space, I think yeah, that’ll tick a lot of boxes.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:54 PM on April 5 [38 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:54 PM on April 5 [38 favorites]
It's amazing to me to see a 10K car-shaped EV - that's in the same ballpark as the higher end of cargo e-bikes!
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:58 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:58 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]
I feel like it’s really time for a small and cheap EV the size of a Mini or Smart Car to pwn the urban and near urban market.
One of the Japanese car manufacturers (Nissan, IIRC) has been working on an EV kei van with the specs you mentioned.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:02 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
One of the Japanese car manufacturers (Nissan, IIRC) has been working on an EV kei van with the specs you mentioned.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:02 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
In Europe I'm seeing smaller urban EV's more frequently, like this one which costs under 10,000 Euro.
posted by UN at 2:06 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
posted by UN at 2:06 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
How many of these super-cheap EVs would even be road-legal in the US?
posted by kickingtheground at 2:13 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
posted by kickingtheground at 2:13 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
Fuck Elon Musk. He had a chance to fundamentally reshape the US auto industry with Tesla and break the stupid dealership model and he's throwing it away on ego driven stupidity.
posted by Wretch729 at 2:17 PM on April 5 [17 favorites]
posted by Wretch729 at 2:17 PM on April 5 [17 favorites]
On the other hand, yet another car company that doesn’t use union labor isn’t so great either and thus I’m not sure we should necessarily be cheering for BYD.
I’m all for seeing Elon get humiliated, but we also need stronger unions and wouldn’t crippling the legacy automakers further cripple the UAW?
posted by aramaic at 2:17 PM on April 5 [19 favorites]
I’m all for seeing Elon get humiliated, but we also need stronger unions and wouldn’t crippling the legacy automakers further cripple the UAW?
posted by aramaic at 2:17 PM on April 5 [19 favorites]
You're going to have to convince a large segment of the American population, which so far has not been convinced, sales confirm, that their $10K tiny car won't be smashed to bits by the trillions of massive trucks and SUVs plaguing the highways.
posted by General Malaise at 2:17 PM on April 5 [13 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 2:17 PM on April 5 [13 favorites]
On the other hand, yet another car company that doesn’t use union labor isn’t so great either and thus I’m not sure we should necessarily be cheering for BYD.
Not sure what how this translates to any production for US passenger EVs, but I wanted to note that the BYD ZEV bus facilities in CA are union.
posted by kensington314 at 2:21 PM on April 5 [20 favorites]
Not sure what how this translates to any production for US passenger EVs, but I wanted to note that the BYD ZEV bus facilities in CA are union.
posted by kensington314 at 2:21 PM on April 5 [20 favorites]
In Europe I'm seeing smaller urban EV's more frequently, like this one which costs under 10,000 Euro.
EV YouTuber Aging Wheels did a review of the Ami - it's...interesting how they keep costs down.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:23 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
EV YouTuber Aging Wheels did a review of the Ami - it's...interesting how they keep costs down.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:23 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
EV YouTuber Aging Wheels did a review yt of the Ami
You Frieren-rolled me with that link!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:27 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
You Frieren-rolled me with that link!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:27 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
A small and cheap EV in the $10,000-$15,000 range would tempt me back to car ownership. I could use a car (as opposed to taking a taxi or asking a friend to take me places, so this wouldn't replace biking or transit) a few times a month, and I would love to be able to travel to see family (replacing flying, so again probably a net carbon gain). I am not afraid to drive an itty car given the type of driving I do. But I just can't afford the cars they sell now, especially given that even if I own a car, I'm still going to bike and take transit for most day to day needs. I'm not willing to pay $30,000 plus a huge whack of insurance, etc, just so that I can run heavy or distant errands when I want to.
So anyway, if there is a critical mass of Frowners across this great nation, we could send some car maker a lot of business.
posted by Frowner at 2:29 PM on April 5 [25 favorites]
So anyway, if there is a critical mass of Frowners across this great nation, we could send some car maker a lot of business.
posted by Frowner at 2:29 PM on April 5 [25 favorites]
You Frieren-rolled me with that link!
Sorry - this is the link to the Ami review.
(I'm looking forward to finishing up the dub run of the series tonight - can you tell?)
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:34 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
Sorry - this is the link to the Ami review.
(I'm looking forward to finishing up the dub run of the series tonight - can you tell?)
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:34 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
Also, the Ami falls into a French vehicle category that's intended for people who don't have licenses - the problem there being that includes "people who lost their licenses due to drunk driving."
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:36 PM on April 5
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:36 PM on April 5
So anyway, if there is a critical mass of Frowners across this great nation, we could send some car maker a lot of business.
I own a car (a used 2008 Prius), but it sounds like I'm sort of a Frowner, too. Even looking at the Chevy Bolt, after tax credits, I think, how could I afford this car? (Setting aside the lack of infrastructure for non-homeowners to be able to charge these things.)
posted by kensington314 at 2:36 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
How in the hell is that son of a bitch able to retain workers? Is he putting something in the water? Are they just that desperate?
I have actually spent a night or two in an office, but not because I was ordered to and it was actually voluntary, as opposed to "voluntary". I sure as hell wouldn't do it for Fascist Maga Elmo.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 2:50 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
I have actually spent a night or two in an office, but not because I was ordered to and it was actually voluntary, as opposed to "voluntary". I sure as hell wouldn't do it for Fascist Maga Elmo.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 2:50 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
replacing flying, so again probably a net carbon gain
Only true if there's three or more people in your car. (Rule of thumb)
posted by storybored at 2:50 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
Only true if there's three or more people in your car. (Rule of thumb)
posted by storybored at 2:50 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: A critical mass of Frowners
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:51 PM on April 5 [45 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:51 PM on April 5 [45 favorites]
Maybe they could stop making cars and just become a charging-infrastructure company, which is feasible because Electrify America is so very very bad at what they do.
posted by credulous at 2:54 PM on April 5 [8 favorites]
posted by credulous at 2:54 PM on April 5 [8 favorites]
For anyone curious about just how bad the Cybertruck is, Tragedy on Four Wheels was a great little watch.
posted by lock robster at 2:56 PM on April 5 [14 favorites]
posted by lock robster at 2:56 PM on April 5 [14 favorites]
BYD bringing $10k EVs to the US market would be a serious disruptive threat to the entire US car industry who are still completely locked into a trajectory of making bigger and bigger vehicles, mostly trucks and SUVs, and pulling back on BEV plans to do hybrids (or quietly not even that) under the belief that "that's what the US market wants".
If they are wrong about what the market wants,...
That's not what the US market wants. That's what the manufacturers want because the more expensive the merchandise the higher the profit margin. They all want to corner the luxury market with the highest profit per vehicle.
Many Americans definitely would prefer to be driving $100,000 bullet proof tanks, but an awful lot of American just want a car they can afford so they can get to work.
I suspect you will be slightly safer in a little cheap mass market vehicle than on a bike, but the main reason people will buy them is that you won't get rained on, you can take the kid to school and you can bring home groceries in them. But I also suspect there will be some serious tragedies when the drivers of the really big heavy expensive vehicles unaccountably don't see the little cheapies, if and when they come on the market. High status people literally do not see low status people. They don't need to, so they don't notice they are there.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:56 PM on April 5 [14 favorites]
If they are wrong about what the market wants,...
That's not what the US market wants. That's what the manufacturers want because the more expensive the merchandise the higher the profit margin. They all want to corner the luxury market with the highest profit per vehicle.
Many Americans definitely would prefer to be driving $100,000 bullet proof tanks, but an awful lot of American just want a car they can afford so they can get to work.
I suspect you will be slightly safer in a little cheap mass market vehicle than on a bike, but the main reason people will buy them is that you won't get rained on, you can take the kid to school and you can bring home groceries in them. But I also suspect there will be some serious tragedies when the drivers of the really big heavy expensive vehicles unaccountably don't see the little cheapies, if and when they come on the market. High status people literally do not see low status people. They don't need to, so they don't notice they are there.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:56 PM on April 5 [14 favorites]
How many of these super-cheap EVs would even be road-legal in the US?
Something like the BYD Seagull is a very small car by US standards, but there's nothing about it that would make it inherently disallowed. BYD has already announced that they're ready to push into UK and EU markets, so they're prepared to deal with sophisticated regulatory regimes.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:32 PM on April 5 [10 favorites]
Something like the BYD Seagull is a very small car by US standards, but there's nothing about it that would make it inherently disallowed. BYD has already announced that they're ready to push into UK and EU markets, so they're prepared to deal with sophisticated regulatory regimes.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:32 PM on April 5 [10 favorites]
The dumb nazi now claims that Reuters is "lying" and the robotaxi will launch August 8th, the anniversary of his illegal "Funding secured" tweet. I hate this asshole so goddamn much.
posted by riotnrrd at 3:37 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]
posted by riotnrrd at 3:37 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]
From the Reuters article:
posted by zamboni at 3:56 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
BYD already offers a slew of low- and mid-range models, including its Seagull hatchback for less than $10,000. The Chinese automaker now plans to export that car for more than double that price - but still lower than the target for the cheap car Tesla had planned to build.So ~$20K for the US market Seagull, not $10K.
posted by zamboni at 3:56 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
credulous: Maybe they could stop making cars and just become a charging-infrastructure company, which is feasible because Electrify America is so very very bad at what they do.
One thing that concerns me about the (self-Elon-inflicted) damage at Tesla is how it might impact the build-out of their charging network. They've been opening charging stations at an impressive pace (see this crowdsourced list of Supercharger stations) in anticipation of non-Tesla cars accessing the network.
posted by Surely This at 3:57 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
One thing that concerns me about the (self-Elon-inflicted) damage at Tesla is how it might impact the build-out of their charging network. They've been opening charging stations at an impressive pace (see this crowdsourced list of Supercharger stations) in anticipation of non-Tesla cars accessing the network.
posted by Surely This at 3:57 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
according to this map, it looks like you could drive all the way to Mexico City via southern Texas if your car's range gauge isn't lying to you.
posted by hippybear at 4:06 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:06 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
It's not clear that tiny Chinese EVs wouldn't be road legal in the US. That's something that can be solved. However, there may be hesitation to try making money on bottom of the barrel cars that are 1) Chinese 2) smaller than many consumers like and 3) are likely to be heavily taxed such as to make the purchase even less attractive. The question is how much, or if, Chinese manufacturers will be willing to subsidize US car purchases to capture the market. The Chinese government really wants to dominate global manufacturing, partly because their economy, so highly dependent on real estate/development, has taken a shit. To the extent the government can influence BYD and other automotive concerns to sell for little or even no profit isn't clear.
Fuck Elon Musk. He had a chance to fundamentally reshape the US auto industry with Tesla and break the stupid dealership model and he's throwing it away on ego driven stupidity.
To be fair, Musk was fought pretty hard by several states against his non dealership model. Auto dealerships are very strong lobbys, pay lots of politicians to keep the dealership model entrenched, and can eat shit for all I care.
Musk is going to get screwed by China. Not only here, but also his access to Chinese auto and labor markets, which he'd been courting for years, is going to take back seat to their domestic producers. Because China doesn't give a fuck about him either.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:10 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]
Fuck Elon Musk. He had a chance to fundamentally reshape the US auto industry with Tesla and break the stupid dealership model and he's throwing it away on ego driven stupidity.
To be fair, Musk was fought pretty hard by several states against his non dealership model. Auto dealerships are very strong lobbys, pay lots of politicians to keep the dealership model entrenched, and can eat shit for all I care.
Musk is going to get screwed by China. Not only here, but also his access to Chinese auto and labor markets, which he'd been courting for years, is going to take back seat to their domestic producers. Because China doesn't give a fuck about him either.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:10 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]
A+++++ for the post title!
Also, Musk has been promising a low cost EV since 2006 (as the article says) and spent years developing the cyber truck (I'm not sure it's doing well) and more recently, disinclining most reasonable people from buying an EV from a narcissistic madman.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:16 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
Also, Musk has been promising a low cost EV since 2006 (as the article says) and spent years developing the cyber truck (I'm not sure it's doing well) and more recently, disinclining most reasonable people from buying an EV from a narcissistic madman.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:16 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
BYD bringing $10k EVs to the US market would be a serious disruptive threat to the entire US car industry who are still completely locked into a trajectory of making bigger and bigger vehicles, mostly trucks and SUVs, and pulling back on BEV plans to do hybrids (or quietly not even that) under the belief that "that's what the US market wants".I get why manufacturers want SUVs and trucks since those have much higher profit margins but I think there are a couple of wake-up calls coming for that. Loan rates are part of that since a lot of people were barely making those luxury prices work with 3%/5 year loans, but another one is car insurance: rates have been increasing but are arguably still far too low and most of the vehicles designed to look big and tough are actually easily busted in ways which are expensive to repair. Buying a sensible car saves you a ton of money upfront and ongoing so even if you’re totally unconcerned about safety or pollution you are probably going to pause for many thousands of dollars.
The NY Fed wrote wrote about this in February and it’s impressive in a few ways: even poor zip codes have average monthly payments over $500, and the amounts people are financing are up 50% over a few years ago for one of the greatest expenses in most Americans’ lives. Housing is up and it’s much easier to cut back in a car: moving is a hassle but your commute to work in an $85k pickup truck is no better than in a mid-20k Camry or Bolt.
posted by adamsc at 4:25 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
Having a hybrid for long road trips to see family is important to me, but you can't find one for less than 30 grand. At 10 or 15 for an around-town 95%-of-trips-are-short car, I might could save enough to rent a more appropriate car for those trips. At 20k, though, I'd have to start doing some serious math.
posted by rikschell at 4:28 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
posted by rikschell at 4:28 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
The Seagull is not a tiny car. Bigger than a Miata but smaller than a Nissan Leaf for example. I think it could be made to meet all U.S. standards with a corresponding increase in price. This article from February lists the price for their example at $11,500. I think making them compliant, importing them and setting up dealer networks will make it a $15,000 car in the U.S.
posted by Grumpy old geek at 4:29 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
posted by Grumpy old geek at 4:29 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
For anyone curious about just how bad the Cybertruck is, Tragedy on Four Wheels was a great little watch.
posted by lock robster at 2:56 PM on April
"stainless steel dumpster fire"
posted by bluesky43 at 4:30 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
posted by lock robster at 2:56 PM on April
"stainless steel dumpster fire"
posted by bluesky43 at 4:30 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
If my VW up! is road legal here in Australia (for about A$13,500), why can’t the Seagull get there?
posted by antipodes at 4:34 PM on April 5
posted by antipodes at 4:34 PM on April 5
The dumb nazi now claims that Reuters is "lying" and the robotaxi will launch August 8th
The precise wording of the tweet is
Why not all three at once? Elon's playing 4-dimensional checkers here with his Nazi flirtations.
posted by Nelson at 4:54 PM on April 5 [11 favorites]
The precise wording of the tweet is
Tesla Robotaxi unveil on 8/8The 8/8 phrasing is important because 88 is coy neo-Nazi slang. Or maybe Elon's just trolling to set up mockery of people who point out the well known low effort Nazi meme? Or maybe it's a real product announcement coming on August the eighth?
Why not all three at once? Elon's playing 4-dimensional checkers here with his Nazi flirtations.
posted by Nelson at 4:54 PM on April 5 [11 favorites]
And because the mercuial manchild can never be challenged, he's claiming that Reuters lied, and that Tesla will show off their ersatz Johnny Cab on August 8th. (Congratulations to Sam Altman, as poaching Tesla engineers will be easier once he starts working them like pit ponies.)
To be fair, Musk was fought pretty hard by several states against his non dealership model.
Tesla is currently leaning on dealerships to provide last mile service/repair capability, as it's turned out that the centralized model doesn't quite work for that, and Tesla's tight vertical integration has made getting repairs expensive (as Hertz found out the hard way.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:00 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
To be fair, Musk was fought pretty hard by several states against his non dealership model.
Tesla is currently leaning on dealerships to provide last mile service/repair capability, as it's turned out that the centralized model doesn't quite work for that, and Tesla's tight vertical integration has made getting repairs expensive (as Hertz found out the hard way.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:00 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
I have ridden in a BYD sedan several times and it was fine, doesn't feel cheap, just a regular car (with a more conventional dash; unlike the Tesla, not controlled by a central touch-screen). Not sure if it's a Seagull, but FYI BYD stands for Build Your Dream. Trump slapped a 25% tariff on Chinese EVs which Biden has kept in place; both because they crave those Michigan votes.
posted by Rash at 5:14 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
posted by Rash at 5:14 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
While Musk will probably be able to show something in August, that's a far cry from "launch". AFAIK, Only Waymo and Cruise have tech decent enough to actually drive in a city, and Cruise has been banned from the streets since an accident last year.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:55 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:55 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
Or, if he feels he's losing the Chinese market, he could be using 8/8 as the date because it's very auspicious in Chinese culture.
posted by hippybear at 5:57 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 5:57 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
>losing the Chinese market
Tesla only has 6% of the Chinese market as it stands and I think that's enough for them. They could use to expand with a Shanghai-designed Tesla, just like they should also offer a Berlin-designed eurocar, and also something nice for the Austin plant to expand on.
Haven't seen too many other Teslas here in Dallas this week (and so far no other California plates LOL) so I don't understand why Tesla can't organically expand marketshare with the Y as it did in California. I guess the hoops you have to jump through to order the car in Texas, and $3.50 gas here . . . tho 20c/kWh is pretty cheap (Teslas get 70 mpg GGE at these prices)
I've been driving LEAFs for over 10 years but wanted an EV I could take anywhere so settled on the MY LR late last year . . . I've had 3 months of the "FSD" thing but much prefer the basic "autopilot" (with the "Automatic Lane Change" feature from the $6000 "EAP" package I'm getting free now thanks to FSD trial).
Drove the 1600 miles from California to Dallas via Flagstaff and Albuquerque in 2 days, 99% on "autopilot". Worked a lot better on this trip than previous long trips in the Hertz Tesla rentals I'd taken in 2022-23. Basic pattern is drive 2 hours at 85, charge 30 minutes, repeat.
The workload when driving on AP is pretty minimal, though now NHTSA made Tesla add more nag warning if you stare at the screen too intently. Speaking of which, that big navigation screen sure is handy when in a new city for a week. Plan B was to fly here for the eclipse and rent a Tesla, but when I checked in December Hertz rates were already pretty high so I figured it'd be fun to road-trip it instead . . .
posted by torokunai at 6:20 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
Tesla only has 6% of the Chinese market as it stands and I think that's enough for them. They could use to expand with a Shanghai-designed Tesla, just like they should also offer a Berlin-designed eurocar, and also something nice for the Austin plant to expand on.
Haven't seen too many other Teslas here in Dallas this week (and so far no other California plates LOL) so I don't understand why Tesla can't organically expand marketshare with the Y as it did in California. I guess the hoops you have to jump through to order the car in Texas, and $3.50 gas here . . . tho 20c/kWh is pretty cheap (Teslas get 70 mpg GGE at these prices)
I've been driving LEAFs for over 10 years but wanted an EV I could take anywhere so settled on the MY LR late last year . . . I've had 3 months of the "FSD" thing but much prefer the basic "autopilot" (with the "Automatic Lane Change" feature from the $6000 "EAP" package I'm getting free now thanks to FSD trial).
Drove the 1600 miles from California to Dallas via Flagstaff and Albuquerque in 2 days, 99% on "autopilot". Worked a lot better on this trip than previous long trips in the Hertz Tesla rentals I'd taken in 2022-23. Basic pattern is drive 2 hours at 85, charge 30 minutes, repeat.
The workload when driving on AP is pretty minimal, though now NHTSA made Tesla add more nag warning if you stare at the screen too intently. Speaking of which, that big navigation screen sure is handy when in a new city for a week. Plan B was to fly here for the eclipse and rent a Tesla, but when I checked in December Hertz rates were already pretty high so I figured it'd be fun to road-trip it instead . . .
posted by torokunai at 6:20 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
BYD is making a huge effort to get safety right. Here in Australia, every model released into the market has been at the highest current safety rating (5-star). When I talk to parents, BYD is first choice for a new car for new drivers/children.
Tesla - not so much. Their 5-star rating is now two years old.
I was kind of doing the calculations as to when it might make sense to buy a car - how much do you need to drive in a year to make it worthwhile owning a car? If you are only doing 1,000 miles/1,600 kms p.a. - even if most of those journeys are short - taxis work out cheaper. If you are doing 10,000 miles/16,000 kms p.a. - and most of the distance travelled is the result of 500 miles/800 kms journey - hire cars work out cheaper. With WFH, I think fewer people will be in the middle.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:48 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
Tesla - not so much. Their 5-star rating is now two years old.
I was kind of doing the calculations as to when it might make sense to buy a car - how much do you need to drive in a year to make it worthwhile owning a car? If you are only doing 1,000 miles/1,600 kms p.a. - even if most of those journeys are short - taxis work out cheaper. If you are doing 10,000 miles/16,000 kms p.a. - and most of the distance travelled is the result of 500 miles/800 kms journey - hire cars work out cheaper. With WFH, I think fewer people will be in the middle.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:48 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]
The 8/8 phrasing is important because 88 is coy neo-Nazi slang. Or maybe Elon's just trolling to set up mockery of people who point out the well known low effort Nazi meme? Or maybe it's a real product announcement coming on August the eighth?
The well known low effort Nazi meme is the first thing I thought when I saw 8/8 mentioned in his tweet. I also recalled W's White House chief of staff saying "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August" (though in his case he was talking about marketing the case for attacking Iraq).
posted by senor biggles at 7:05 PM on April 5
The well known low effort Nazi meme is the first thing I thought when I saw 8/8 mentioned in his tweet. I also recalled W's White House chief of staff saying "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August" (though in his case he was talking about marketing the case for attacking Iraq).
posted by senor biggles at 7:05 PM on April 5
I also recalled W's White House chief of staff saying "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August" (though in his case he was talking about marketing the case for attacking Iraq).
So you're saying Elon Musk is going to get involved in a land war in Asia.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:39 PM on April 5 [9 favorites]
So you're saying Elon Musk is going to get involved in a land war in Asia.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:39 PM on April 5 [9 favorites]
I want one. Even more, I want China to start importing affordable cars and trucks to the US and destroy the market. Some of you will say, "But evilDoug, this makes you a bad person and MURKA! FUK YEAH!" And I say, what part of evilDoug are you not understanding? Also,I'm fine with that. I'm sick of hoping the billionaires, fascists, and republicans, will start to play fair. BURN IT ALL DOWN! EAT THE RICH!
But do it all with love.
posted by evilDoug at 7:40 PM on April 5 [10 favorites]
But do it all with love.
posted by evilDoug at 7:40 PM on April 5 [10 favorites]
There is no chance, none— that Tesla can deploy a robotaxi this year. Any outlet that is giving that any credence is absolutely delusional. That he’s willing to ‘leak’ that info to pop the stock a little should be worrying to any stockholders.
If a magic genie could pop out of it’s lamp and grant Tesla the ability to make an entirely reliable robotaxi, then the only logical choice for Tesla would simply be to stop selling Teslas to anyone, buy any already sold Teslas back off consumers and solely become a robotaxi company.
Elon’s original ‘within a year’ promise of Robotaxis back in… 2019 was stating a Tesla owner could make 300k gross profit over 11 years (and, of course, as Elon stated— these are very conservative numbers!) at which point it really does sound like a ‘I’ve got the perfect magical money making machine here, but rather then just use it myself, I’m willing to sell you the howto guide for $100’.
posted by Static Vagabond at 7:43 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
If a magic genie could pop out of it’s lamp and grant Tesla the ability to make an entirely reliable robotaxi, then the only logical choice for Tesla would simply be to stop selling Teslas to anyone, buy any already sold Teslas back off consumers and solely become a robotaxi company.
Elon’s original ‘within a year’ promise of Robotaxis back in… 2019 was stating a Tesla owner could make 300k gross profit over 11 years (and, of course, as Elon stated— these are very conservative numbers!) at which point it really does sound like a ‘I’ve got the perfect magical money making machine here, but rather then just use it myself, I’m willing to sell you the howto guide for $100’.
posted by Static Vagabond at 7:43 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
Is it too much to be hope that if we stop talking about this guy he'll go away?
posted by constraint at 7:53 PM on April 5 [9 favorites]
posted by constraint at 7:53 PM on April 5 [9 favorites]
I am perplexed at the autopilot derails here - or does EV imply 'a car that drives itself' to most people? Maybe trucks will be able to drive themselves on the freeway but I think (and hope) we're a long way from 'autopilot' vehicles which can handle inclement weather and don't ever hit bicyclists or pedestrians.
posted by Rash at 8:03 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
posted by Rash at 8:03 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
It’s related Rash— when the news leaked about the cancellation of the cheaper model came out, their stock price started dropping— then Elon put out a tweet saying that the long promised robotaxi’s would be revealed on August 8th.
A cynical person would suggest the timing was to help distract the news and stop the stock tumble.
posted by Static Vagabond at 8:23 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
A cynical person would suggest the timing was to help distract the news and stop the stock tumble.
posted by Static Vagabond at 8:23 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
How many of these super-cheap EVs would even be road-legal in the US?Some of them could be brought to the US as NEVs.
posted by mbrubeck at 8:35 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
I am perplexed at the autopilot derails hereThe Reuters story that broke the Model 2 cancellation news (second link in the MetaFilter post) also talks a bit about recent Autopilot issues.
posted by mbrubeck at 8:40 PM on April 5
(and also that Tesla canceled the Model 2 in order to focus more on self-driving taxis)
posted by mbrubeck at 9:23 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
posted by mbrubeck at 9:23 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
If you are only doing 1,000 miles/1,600 kms p.a. - even if most of those journeys are short - taxis work out cheaper. If you are doing 10,000 miles/16,000 kms p.a. - and most of the distance travelled is the result of 500 miles/800 kms journey - hire cars work out cheaper. With WFH, I think fewer people will be in the middle.
From an American POV.... Short work commute is 5 miles one way. That puts you at ~3000 miles p.a. if you're only commuting to work. But you're probably going places on the weekend and also taking the occasional long trip, so 5000 miles p.a. would be typical for a short work commute. If we have two days WFH it becomes 3800. 2000 would be pushing it as a bare minimum. A typical-to-long commute is 15 miles, which puts us at 10,000 miles p.a. with no long journeys. Commuting plus road trips is easily 15,000 miles p.a.
Anyway, this is why so many Americans own cars.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:57 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
From an American POV.... Short work commute is 5 miles one way. That puts you at ~3000 miles p.a. if you're only commuting to work. But you're probably going places on the weekend and also taking the occasional long trip, so 5000 miles p.a. would be typical for a short work commute. If we have two days WFH it becomes 3800. 2000 would be pushing it as a bare minimum. A typical-to-long commute is 15 miles, which puts us at 10,000 miles p.a. with no long journeys. Commuting plus road trips is easily 15,000 miles p.a.
Anyway, this is why so many Americans own cars.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:57 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
Also there are young children, for which taxis are sadly pretty useless. We don’t drive much, I try and bike the kids when I can (and we’ll be getting a 2nd cargo e-bike to further reduce this), but as well as pure mileage, “I need a transport solution with the exact configuration of seats my children require within an extremely short time window” is hard to solve without owning said transport solution, be it bikes or cars. Pre kids, using taxis & car-co-ops/shares was totally workable!
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:27 AM on April 6 [8 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:27 AM on April 6 [8 favorites]
I've been considering one of those tiny Euro EV's but less as a car and more as an alternative to a scooter/motorcycle for my city commute. Even though my city has an excellent public transportation system, my particular commute is not so excellent, and I'd save about 40 minutes to an hour every day if I drove. I'd consider a scooter, but I think it'd be impractical during the many cold wet wintery months.
Not something I'd take on the highway, but these aren't built for that anyway.
posted by UN at 12:58 AM on April 6
Not something I'd take on the highway, but these aren't built for that anyway.
posted by UN at 12:58 AM on April 6
It's a little ironic that a lot of the classical benefits of capitalism, such as mass manufacture making things cheap enough that average person can afford it and market competition increasing quality/weeding out inefficient firms, are now coming out of China under the Communist Party, while the US, the supposed global champion of capitalism, fights against it.
As much as I dislike Musk personally and think Tesla has been incredibly overvalued, I'm hopeful they can play a constructive role in the transition to EVs, particularly charging infrastructure. There was a recent McKinsey survey that clocked a fifth of NEV owners in China who wouldn't buy one for their next car, mostly because of the lack of charging infrastructure, particularly in 3rd and 4th tier cities. And the Infrastructure Bill has managed to only build 7 charging stations, despite having 2 years and a budget of $7.5 billion.
posted by ndr at 1:09 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
As much as I dislike Musk personally and think Tesla has been incredibly overvalued, I'm hopeful they can play a constructive role in the transition to EVs, particularly charging infrastructure. There was a recent McKinsey survey that clocked a fifth of NEV owners in China who wouldn't buy one for their next car, mostly because of the lack of charging infrastructure, particularly in 3rd and 4th tier cities. And the Infrastructure Bill has managed to only build 7 charging stations, despite having 2 years and a budget of $7.5 billion.
posted by ndr at 1:09 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
Hello from Kyoto, where we own a Nissan Sakura! It's a zippy little electric car (and I do mean little — it falls within the special "light" legal category Japan has for small cars that pay reduced tax) that gets something like 150–160 km on a full charge. We bought it in large part to operate as a home storage battery to complement our solar panel setup, but it's great for driving around the city or making modest day trips further out (or longer ones if you're okay with stopping to charge every so often). If they were allowed to sell them in the US, I bet they would be a huge hit with urban drivers, because the Sakura is a remarkably practical little vehicle. Shockingly roomy passenger cabin, too!
There's also the Volvo EX30, if memory serves, which is something like $35K? And when Volvo is the one selling mass-market-priced vehicles in your market, you know something is seriously out of whack.
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:12 AM on April 6 [5 favorites]
There's also the Volvo EX30, if memory serves, which is something like $35K? And when Volvo is the one selling mass-market-priced vehicles in your market, you know something is seriously out of whack.
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:12 AM on April 6 [5 favorites]
The weird thing about Tesla's current charging effort is that you'd never guess it's the product of a company that recently had a trillion-dollar market cap. (it's like all the money Tesla is making is going to Elon or something??)
In some indeterminate future (before cars are all charged inductively or with particle beams while moving) charging stops will hopefully consist of more than 6 - 12 pumps in random previously underutilized corner of some random establishment's parking lot.
The closest quality stop I had on my 1200 mile trip last week was this truck stop in Vernon, TX. (the Tesla pumps are where the blue truck tractor is), but it wasn't pull-through or covered like the liquid fuel pumps.
But at least there was a decent place to shop, and a truck stop bathroom designed to handle more than 1 or 2 persons at a time.
Now that I'm on the subject of liquids, it did occur to me while driving here in Texas how electrification will eliminate the need to cart all the fuel required for 2.8 trillion vehicle miles . . .. at 20mpg fleet average and placed in twin tanker trucks according to chatGPT these trucks would circle the earth's equator 4 times.
posted by torokunai at 5:26 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
In some indeterminate future (before cars are all charged inductively or with particle beams while moving) charging stops will hopefully consist of more than 6 - 12 pumps in random previously underutilized corner of some random establishment's parking lot.
The closest quality stop I had on my 1200 mile trip last week was this truck stop in Vernon, TX. (the Tesla pumps are where the blue truck tractor is), but it wasn't pull-through or covered like the liquid fuel pumps.
But at least there was a decent place to shop, and a truck stop bathroom designed to handle more than 1 or 2 persons at a time.
Now that I'm on the subject of liquids, it did occur to me while driving here in Texas how electrification will eliminate the need to cart all the fuel required for 2.8 trillion vehicle miles . . .. at 20mpg fleet average and placed in twin tanker trucks according to chatGPT these trucks would circle the earth's equator 4 times.
posted by torokunai at 5:26 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
So you're saying Elon Musk is going to get involved in a land war in Asia.
He's certainly amenable to the idea: Russia using thousands of SpaceX Starlink terminals in Ukraine, WSJ says
posted by achrise at 6:37 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
He's certainly amenable to the idea: Russia using thousands of SpaceX Starlink terminals in Ukraine, WSJ says
posted by achrise at 6:37 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
I'm a fan of Aptera's approach to utilize one of the biggest benefits of an EV power train - you no longer need an internal combustion engine - to radically rethink how the car should operate. Their vehicle uses hub motors in the wheels, because they're the most efficient way to move a vehicle with electricity - no power loss to drive trains or transmissions. That also means they can make the shape of the car practically whatever they want, it just has to fit the desired number of occupants, the batteries and the power control systems. The end result is a car so efficient at miles per kilowatt that it's accidentally a solar car - the 700 watts of solar can recoup about 40-60 miles worth of range each day, enough to cover an average daily commute in the US.
They're also in the $30k price range at the moment with their launch edition, but lower price options are planned in the future. They're more likely to ship their actual cars long before Tesla ships robotaxi's.
In the fully automated luxury communist utopia of my dream future, cars like Aptera's are what fill the gaps that aren't served by rail, bus, or bike infrastructure.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:04 AM on April 6 [8 favorites]
They're also in the $30k price range at the moment with their launch edition, but lower price options are planned in the future. They're more likely to ship their actual cars long before Tesla ships robotaxi's.
In the fully automated luxury communist utopia of my dream future, cars like Aptera's are what fill the gaps that aren't served by rail, bus, or bike infrastructure.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:04 AM on April 6 [8 favorites]
Aging Wheels covered the Aptera as well - and was rather impressed.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:57 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:57 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]
On August 8, expect to see a performance from a dancer in a small car costume on a big stage as a "demo" of Tesla's new product.
posted by biogeo at 8:06 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
posted by biogeo at 8:06 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
> Aging Wheels covered the Aptera as well - and was rather impressed.
Yeah, he did a really good explanation of how impressive its efficiency is. Given his background in acquiring and restoring failed electric cars, his enthusiasm for Aptera is probably the most grounded in reality.
I should mention I do have a deposit in for a car (and invested a small amount into Aptera), but who knows if they will ever export a right hand drive model to Northern Ireland. Charging the car from it's own solar panels might not be the biggest selling point in this market, but given that the cheapest battery option gets you half way across the island, it would still be the most affordable electric vehicle - both to buy and charge.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:16 AM on April 6
Yeah, he did a really good explanation of how impressive its efficiency is. Given his background in acquiring and restoring failed electric cars, his enthusiasm for Aptera is probably the most grounded in reality.
I should mention I do have a deposit in for a car (and invested a small amount into Aptera), but who knows if they will ever export a right hand drive model to Northern Ireland. Charging the car from it's own solar panels might not be the biggest selling point in this market, but given that the cheapest battery option gets you half way across the island, it would still be the most affordable electric vehicle - both to buy and charge.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:16 AM on April 6
Who will even want to buy Tesla robotaxis? Hertz bailed on Tesla as part of its rental fleet because of cost and support problems. A taxi fleet gets an even rougher ride than rental cars. Is Tesla going to run its own robotaxi fleet? Maybe you'll have install the X app and have an X bank account to use one.
posted by srboisvert at 11:00 AM on April 6
posted by srboisvert at 11:00 AM on April 6
It's a little ironic that a lot of the classical benefits of capitalism... are now coming out of China under the Communist Party
IMO they're now Communists In Name Only. The country is still an autocratic dictatorship, to be sure (which is all it takes to be labeled 'Communist' to most politically naïve Americans), but not Marxist-Leninist since the late 1970s Socialism with Chinese characteristics reforms.
posted by Rash at 11:18 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
IMO they're now Communists In Name Only. The country is still an autocratic dictatorship, to be sure (which is all it takes to be labeled 'Communist' to most politically naïve Americans), but not Marxist-Leninist since the late 1970s Socialism with Chinese characteristics reforms.
posted by Rash at 11:18 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Robert Picardo (the doctor emergency medical hologram on ST:Voyager) provided the voice and features model for the Johnny Cab design in the original (Schwarznegger) Total Recall. Anyway, I might just possibly be able to put up with a Musky Autotaxi if they were similarly designed but modelled after Elmo himself so you could punch him in the face like a boxing target.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:54 AM on April 6 [5 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:54 AM on April 6 [5 favorites]
> hybrid... you can't find one for less than 30 grand
US dollars in the US market? The Toyota Corolla, Hyundai Elantra and Ford Maverick are all under $30k USD before tax & title. Mavericks are hard to come by, but there seem to be plenty of Corolla LE (base model) at under $25k. Fuel economy isn't as good as the new Prius, but it's on par with the old one.
NEVs seem like a good idea for islands w/ 25MPH speed limits (Manhattan), but the 35-40MPH 3 lane stroads around here are too dangerous & the network doesn't allow avoiding them completely.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 3:51 PM on April 6
US dollars in the US market? The Toyota Corolla, Hyundai Elantra and Ford Maverick are all under $30k USD before tax & title. Mavericks are hard to come by, but there seem to be plenty of Corolla LE (base model) at under $25k. Fuel economy isn't as good as the new Prius, but it's on par with the old one.
NEVs seem like a good idea for islands w/ 25MPH speed limits (Manhattan), but the 35-40MPH 3 lane stroads around here are too dangerous & the network doesn't allow avoiding them completely.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 3:51 PM on April 6
IMO they're now Communists In Name Only. The country is still an autocratic dictatorship, to be sure (which is all it takes to be labeled 'Communist' to most politically naïve Americans), but not Marxist-Leninist since the late 1970s Socialism with Chinese characteristics reforms.I think arguments of this nature are similar to the ones that the Byzantine Empire wasn't really Roman - what matters is they understand themselves to be Communist and continue to expend significant intellectual and ideological efforts to continue and expand that tradition.
posted by ndr at 4:31 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Mavericks are hard to come by,
Ford basically said "who would like a small form urban hauler light duty truck with solid gas mileage" and found out the answer was "yes, please, we would like."
I would not be surprised if they release an NACS EV Maverick in a year or two.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:34 PM on April 6 [3 favorites]
Ford basically said "who would like a small form urban hauler light duty truck with solid gas mileage" and found out the answer was "yes, please, we would like."
I would not be surprised if they release an NACS EV Maverick in a year or two.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:34 PM on April 6 [3 favorites]
continue to expend significant intellectual and ideological efforts to continue and expand that tradition.
...in much the same way as Republicans claim they love Democracy and The Republic?
posted by aramaic at 6:15 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
...in much the same way as Republicans claim they love Democracy and The Republic?
posted by aramaic at 6:15 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
>which is all it takes to be labeled 'Communist' to most politically naïve Americans
that's kinda what big-C Communism is tho, an autocratic Party cadre monopolizing state power. How the 'conomy is structured is a secondary thing (socialist, capitalist, mixed)...
Drove up to Denton TX today to visit my 3rd Free Play arcade (they have 5 in DFW, which is largely why I picked Dallas for the eclipse). Kinda amused by some college-aged peeps waving a red communist flag in one corner of the Denton town plaza. Good luck with that, kids.
posted by torokunai at 7:22 PM on April 6
that's kinda what big-C Communism is tho, an autocratic Party cadre monopolizing state power. How the 'conomy is structured is a secondary thing (socialist, capitalist, mixed)...
Drove up to Denton TX today to visit my 3rd Free Play arcade (they have 5 in DFW, which is largely why I picked Dallas for the eclipse). Kinda amused by some college-aged peeps waving a red communist flag in one corner of the Denton town plaza. Good luck with that, kids.
posted by torokunai at 7:22 PM on April 6
I mean, I think a large percentage of Americans still think Russia is Communist. We aren't the country that is most aware of what the world is actually like outside of its borders. I learned that when I was an exchange student to Germany in the Eighties. Once I was living outside the US for even a couple of months I realized my awareness of the world was maybe 10% of what was actually going on.
That might have gone up a bit with the advent of the internet, but given the collective American unwillingness to perceive anything outside its borders as actually being important, it might have gone up 5% in the 40 years since I was out of the country.
posted by hippybear at 7:33 PM on April 6
That might have gone up a bit with the advent of the internet, but given the collective American unwillingness to perceive anything outside its borders as actually being important, it might have gone up 5% in the 40 years since I was out of the country.
posted by hippybear at 7:33 PM on April 6
...in much the same way as Republicans claim they love Democracy and The Republic?In the same way that the Vatican claims they care about theology. The CPC's official diagnosis for why the USSR collapsed is because the CCCP abandoned their history and faith in Marxism-Leninism (there's a documentary that was mandatory viewing among party cadre and later broadcast on CCTV if you understand Mandarin or are willing to wade through a machine-translation). They believe their system needs to be ideologically grounded to work and not follow the footsteps of the USSR, so you better believe they take it seriously.
posted by ndr at 8:50 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Tragedy on Four Wheels was a great little watch
Adam Something perfects the art of video description with
Adam Something perfects the art of video description with
Welcome to Elon Musk's cyberpunk dystopia. It's like a regular cyberpunk dystopia, but lame.posted by flabdablet at 8:32 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Is 8/8 the date of the second coming of Hitler?
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:28 AM on April 7
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:28 AM on April 7
Is 8/8 the date of the second coming of Hitler?
Sort of. The number 88 is a numerlogical code among the Nazi set, as in the classic Caesar cypher 8 = H, thus 88 = HH, which is shorthand for "Heil Hitler". (This is why a business run by a Nazi put up an "$14.88" special, which was just throwing it in our faces.)
That said, 8/8 is also an numerlogically auspicious date in some Eastern cultures, but that's giving Musk a benefit of the doubt that he so very much does not merit.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:33 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Sort of. The number 88 is a numerlogical code among the Nazi set, as in the classic Caesar cypher 8 = H, thus 88 = HH, which is shorthand for "Heil Hitler". (This is why a business run by a Nazi put up an "$14.88" special, which was just throwing it in our faces.)
That said, 8/8 is also an numerlogically auspicious date in some Eastern cultures, but that's giving Musk a benefit of the doubt that he so very much does not merit.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:33 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
We aren't the country that is most aware of what the world is actually like outside of its borders..
I think we might, on average, be even more parochial than that! See voters in what might even be considered suburbs of New York City who are convinced the city's become a hellscape too dangerous to enter. But I guess that might be due to intentional propaganda (reinforced by commercial media's general bad news bias + no one being good at intuiting/absorbing/communicating statistics).
posted by nobody at 12:45 PM on April 7
I think we might, on average, be even more parochial than that! See voters in what might even be considered suburbs of New York City who are convinced the city's become a hellscape too dangerous to enter. But I guess that might be due to intentional propaganda (reinforced by commercial media's general bad news bias + no one being good at intuiting/absorbing/communicating statistics).
posted by nobody at 12:45 PM on April 7
(This is why a business run by a Nazi put up an "$14.88" special, which was just throwing it in our faces.)
White supremacist ruin everything. A lot of people from China believe 8 is a lucky number, so you'll see pricing ending in .88 ALL THE TIME.
posted by mikelieman at 3:49 AM on April 8
White supremacist ruin everything. A lot of people from China believe 8 is a lucky number, so you'll see pricing ending in .88 ALL THE TIME.
posted by mikelieman at 3:49 AM on April 8
Unfortunately, the 14 in $14.88 is also white supremacist code
posted by hydropsyche at 4:59 AM on April 8
posted by hydropsyche at 4:59 AM on April 8
Mark Bankston - famous for surprising Alex Jones on the stand with the news that he had a full copy of his phone's contents - recently deposed Musk as part of a defamation lawsuit over Musk falsely tying college student Ben Brody to violent extremist groups. The deposition is a great example of handing a shovel to your opponent and seeing what he does with it, but the more interesting bit is the fallout from discovery. See, as you may or may not recall, Musk set up a Twitter account - @ermnmusk - in which he digitally cosplayed his toddler son - this account's existence came up in the deposition. The thing, however, is that when Bankston's team went to review that account, it had been deleted - and forensic examination showed that the account was deleted around the date of the discovery order, which is either massive coincidence or blatant spoliation of evidence. (I'll let you guess how l'm leaning here.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:49 AM on April 9 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:49 AM on April 9 [1 favorite]
So apparently opening a Model 3's door while it's updating risks bricking the vehicle, resulting in one owner trapped in a 115 degree vehicle while it updated.
How the hell did this happen?
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:44 AM on April 12
How the hell did this happen?
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:44 AM on April 12
The article does a good job explaining exactly how it happened. It's better than I feared and seems like an odd corner case they should address better. But now I wonder if my Volvo EV has a similar failure mode. It will only update if the car doors are locked and I don't know if it's got enough smarts to not update if I'm sitting in the car. It probably could but I'm not inclined to test it. OTOH the doors on the Volvo mechanically open easily and I'd never even consider whether I shouldn't try to open them.
Tesla's bizarre door opening is a huge safety problem IMHO. It's mostly pushbutton and while they all have mechanical alternatives they are odd and in some cases require disassembling part of the car trim to access. I'm convinced that Tesla door design was a factor in Angela Chao's slow drowning death.
posted by Nelson at 7:01 AM on April 12
Tesla's bizarre door opening is a huge safety problem IMHO. It's mostly pushbutton and while they all have mechanical alternatives they are odd and in some cases require disassembling part of the car trim to access. I'm convinced that Tesla door design was a factor in Angela Chao's slow drowning death.
posted by Nelson at 7:01 AM on April 12
This is further evidence to me of two things:
1. Cars and other heavy machinery should be designed by engineers.
2. Software engineers are not engineers.
posted by biogeo at 8:14 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
1. Cars and other heavy machinery should be designed by engineers.
2. Software engineers are not engineers.
posted by biogeo at 8:14 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
3. Elon's brain farts are not design specs.
posted by flabdablet at 8:35 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 8:35 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
And in both manufacturing defect and Failing At Truck news, Cybertruck deliveries have been paused due to a defect that can lock the accelerator at full throttle.
Also, with sales in freefall, Tesla is laying off 10% of the company's workforce.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:44 PM on April 15
Also, with sales in freefall, Tesla is laying off 10% of the company's workforce.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:44 PM on April 15
Added to the things the Cybertruck can't do: go through a car wash.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:19 PM on April 17 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:19 PM on April 17 [1 favorite]
And in further Tesla news, we have one of the richest men on earth begging to be given his money back, as Tesla launches a website to encourage shareholders to reinstate the compensation package the Delaware courts rescinded, as well as authorize reincorporation in Texas.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:29 PM on April 18
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:29 PM on April 18
The "Elon wants Tesla shareholders to give him $55B" story really has to be read in the context of this other story, Elon Musk email says Tesla sent ‘incorrectly low’ severance packages to laid-off employees.
posted by Nelson at 1:00 PM on April 18
“As we reorganize Tesla it has come to my attention that some severance packages are incorrectly low,” Musk wrote in the brief email. “My apologies for this mistake. It is being corrected immediately.”He makes it sound like a mistake but I assume what really happened is the backlash and possibly legal consequences for him screwing the 10% of employees he fired were too severe. So now he's walking it back. While simultaneously demanding $55B in compensation from the company.
posted by Nelson at 1:00 PM on April 18
And in followup on Failing At Truck, all Cybertrucks have been recalled over the accelerator pad issue - and given it's a hardware issue, suffice it to say an over the air update isn't going to fix this.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:30 AM on April 19
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:30 AM on April 19
Also, apparently there are <4000 Cybertrucken in the wild as well.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:17 PM on April 19
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:17 PM on April 19
And after an utterly brutal Q1 earnings call, the Model 2 looks to be back on the board as part of an attempt to staunch the bleeding.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:08 PM on April 23
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:08 PM on April 23
Oh Musk is just full of inane ramblings with Tesla this week, as it posts their disastrous quarterly results. Two more stories to consider:
Elon Musk wanted Tesla to slash its headcount by 20% because its quarterly vehicle deliveries fell by that much. (Trumpian math!) And Musk Plays Up ‘Sentient Humanoid’ Robots as Tesla Flounders. Aka "our whole business plan isn't working so look, robotaxis!" I don't think he's mentioned sexbots yet, but presumably that's coming.
posted by Nelson at 6:06 PM on April 23
Elon Musk wanted Tesla to slash its headcount by 20% because its quarterly vehicle deliveries fell by that much. (Trumpian math!) And Musk Plays Up ‘Sentient Humanoid’ Robots as Tesla Flounders. Aka "our whole business plan isn't working so look, robotaxis!" I don't think he's mentioned sexbots yet, but presumably that's coming.
posted by Nelson at 6:06 PM on April 23
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but hey, anything that makes this guy waste money is a positive in my book
posted by AngelWuff at 1:42 PM on April 5 [2 favorites]