September 28, 2004 5:09 AM   Subscribe

Mr. Bush and His 10 Ever-Changing Different Positions on Iraq: "A flip and a flop and now just a flop." Delightful Moore (to those who like what he does), and a few links to backup his reasoning for those who don't.
posted by acrobat (52 comments total)
Actually, the links to back up his positions are for everybody, natch.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:20 AM on September 28, 2004

How dare you question Dear Leader!!
Treasonous traitors!!

Heh, good links.
"Who's flopping now?"
"It's my party and I'll flop if I want to!"

I hear Farenheit 9/11 is the most popular DVD in Iraq with the troops and the movie has topped $100 milliion in sales. Gee, you'd think the profit hungry major media monoliths would be interested. Wonder what's stopping them from jumping on the wagon?
posted by nofundy at 5:29 AM on September 28, 2004

Nitpick: the first 5 flip flop's have more to do with the previous Bush's admin than the current one.
posted by PenDevil at 5:45 AM on September 28, 2004

This should be a hoot.
posted by Witty at 5:47 AM on September 28, 2004

Previous admin, same ol' fa(e)ces
posted by acrobat at 5:53 AM on September 28, 2004

Why do you hate America so much?

Seriously, once you get past the invective, this is a pretty good capsule description of how our leadership's stance toward the Shoeshine Boy has conveniently changed to fit our intentions over the last...gawd, have we really had a relationship with him 21 years now? You'd think we'd have been more consistent.

I keep hoping they strike oil in North Korea just to watch W do backflips.
posted by alumshubby at 6:10 AM on September 28, 2004

nofundy posted this amazing BushFlop list recently on Metafilter and since he hasn't brought it up here, I feel obliged to re-post it :

"From the beginning, George W. Bush has made his own credibility a central issue. On 10/11/00, then-Gov. Bush said: "I think credibility is important.It is going to be important for the president to be credible with Congress, important for the president to be credible with foreign nations." But President Bush's serial flip-flopping raises serious questions about whether Congress and foreign leaders can rely on what he says.

# Bush is against campaign finance reform; then he's for it.

# Bush is against a Homeland Security Department; then he's for it.

# Bush is against a 9/11 commission; then he's for it.

# Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation; then he's for it.

# Bush is against nation building; then he's for it.

# Bush is against deficits; then he's for them.

# Bush is for free trade; then he's for tariffs on steel; then he's against them again.

# Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict; then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.

# Bush is for states right to decide on gay marriage, then he is for changing the constitution.

# Bush first says he'll provide money for first responders (fire, police, emergency), then he doesn't.

# Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military ... then he cuts benefits

# Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.

# Bush claims to be in favor of the environment and then secretly starts drilling on Padre Island.

# Bush talks about helping education and increases mandates while cutting funding.

# Bush first says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea. Now he will

# Bush goes to Bob Jones University. Then say's he shouldn't have.

# Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to sanction military action against Iraq. Later Bush announced he would not call for a vote

# Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by the sailors. Bush later admits it was his advance team.

# Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who enter the US. Bush after meeting with Pres. Fox, he's against it.

Soon after the Bush administration took office, it promised to uphold the Clinton administration's Roadless Area Conservation Rule, enacted in 2001 to protect some 58.5 million acres of America's last unspoiled National Forests from logging, mining and drilling. But this summer President Bush flip-flopped. The administration's U.S. Forest Service announced it is repealing the rule, which was designed to protect vital sources of clean water and wildlife habitat. Since the year 2000, the timber industry alone has given $25 million to the Bush administration and its Congressional allies.

WASHINGTON, D.C. – The prominence of health insurance industry executives among Bush campaign bundlers suggests that special interests played a part in President Bush’s flip-flop on patients’ rights to sue HMOs, Public Citizen charged today.

In a televised presidential debate on Oct. 17, 2000, candidate Bush said, "If I’m the president … people will be able to take their HMO insurance company to court," adding that while he was governor of Texas, "We’re one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage."

But on Tuesday, the Bush administration argued before the U.S. Supreme Court that the same Texas law touted by candidate Bush is invalid because it is pre-empted by a federal law. This is the opposite of what then-Gov. Bush’s Texas Department of Insurance argued in a lower court in 1997.

The BUSH-CHENEY team likes to say president is "steadfast." And John Kerry is "flip-flopper." But Senator Kerry is bolted to floor compared to Bush. President Bush is no more steadfast than Tony Soprano is faithful.

Bush can't get enough of Chalabi. Chalabi cons Bush's neocons into toppling Saddam; sits behind Laura Bush at State of Union speech; always looks marvelous in custom-made $1,000 suits. US paid him $335,000 a month for "intelligence."

US troops raid Chalabi's house. US soldiers raided Chalabi's home and seized documents and computers. (Hope they didn't wrinkle his suits.) While on US payroll, told Iran that US had cracked code for Iran's secret communications. Time magazine says, "The US's abandonment of Chalabi may prove to be the most head-snapping reversal of all."

Bush called Osama number one priority. "There's an old poster out West that says, `Wanted: Dead or Alive.' . . . The most important thing is to find Osama bin Laden. It's our Number One priority. We will not rest until we have found him." (Sept. 13 and 16, 2001.)

Now Bush doesn't care about him. "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important." (March 13, 2002.)

And so on. And so on. Dear Leader Bush. And his supporters. Projection. You could look it up.

But again, what was that about a liar and a weasel? What was that about "terms and conditions subject to change without notice. Some restrictions apply"?


posted by fold_and_mutilate"
posted by troutfishing at 6:21 AM on September 28, 2004

Nofundy, "Moore's show will consist of his monologue, interaction with the audience, and a few surprise guests. He will read letters he's received from soldiers in Iraq (published in his new book, "Will They Ever Trust Us Again -- Letters from the War Zone"). Yes, his film has only just started its international rounds and it's already a great success. For the troops in Iraq, well, he seems to be a more trustworthy source of information as to why they have to fight this terrible war, than the Pentagon or the White House. Way to go, eh?
posted by acrobat at 6:29 AM on September 28, 2004

Allow me to add this to the feeding frenzy.
posted by Witty at 6:38 AM on September 28, 2004

"Voters routinely describe Kerry as wishy-washy, as a flip-flopper and as a candidate they are not sure they can trust, almost as if they are reading from Bush campaign ad scripts."

Repeating the same thing day after day after day seems to affect voters.
posted by plexi at 6:47 AM on September 28, 2004

plexi - I'd add to that "....and absorbing Bush campaign memes which have been re-broadcast by biased and servile mainstream media."
posted by troutfishing at 6:56 AM on September 28, 2004

Here's a question: With the whole "here are some flip-flops (shoes), lets wave the soles at the camera" thing - Why are Republicans acting like an angry Arab mob - showing the soles of the shoes? Is this some kind of statement of soladardy with Muslim?
posted by rough ashlar at 7:11 AM on September 28, 2004

this guy is so not going to win
posted by ParisParamus at 7:49 AM on September 28, 2004

at this point, I blame American liberals. really. those who still think Kerry's party has a chance in November, and those who manage to get hardons for a dead horse, spoiler GOP tool like Nader. I blame them all.

at this point, it's perfectly clear that the American public -- at least those who plan to vote in November -- don't give a flying fuck about Bush being incompetent (or a former cokehead, or a former alcoholic, or a former National Guardsman who skipped the last 2 years of his service because he was "young & irresponsible" TM). Bush has failed at everything in his life, except possibly getting high.

they just don't care.

they don't care about the 1,000+ American GI's sent to slaughter on trumped-up evidence, they don't care about the hundreds (thousands?) more who'll die before America cuts her losses and flees the ethnic/religious/civil war the neocons have created in Iraq.

they just don't care.

42% of Americans -- or whatfuckingever is the latest poll -- think Saddam financed and planned 9/11. you can't argue with that shit. you just can't. they're the flatearthers of foreign affairs. they just want to feel safe because some dark-skinned people who worship a strange God are getting their collective asses kicked by American weapons -- or, in the case of Abu Ghraib, by American electrodes.

US liberals should eat that massive piece of shit cake, and try to organize themselves. they managed to trust once again the DLC "New Democrats", the Third Way men who promised them a few kicks in the teeth (like in the Clinton era) but at least a modicum of progressive social policy, and a few non-klukker SCOTUS Justices. and look what they got from the New Democrats.

The Democratic Party is made up of a bunch of people who managed to have one already-won election stolen from under their chins by a bunch of Brooks Brothers Riot lame-ass thugs, and by a lightweight like mrs Harris.
and this time, the DLC people managed to fuck poor Howard Dean's shit up and nominate a guy so lame who didn't even manage to obliterate a laughinstock of an opponent like the current President, and ended up gettting creamed by a street gang of commung thugs like the Swift Boat Liars.

Bush flip-flopped? Of course. But Americans only care about Dan Rather. Kerry? Oh, he went to Vietnam, but didn't bleed enough, the Taxachussetts bastard. and that what's really important in this campaign, right?

the USA has shown in the past a great ability to organize and achieve massively progressive policy -- the New Deal, for example. or de-segregation. or, you know, Abolition.
sadly, it seems to take rather massive crises, before America can manage to take some progressive medicine and come back to health. right now, America seems to feel safe in GOP hands. liberals will have to wait until she wakes up from that illusion. and to have some decent politicians waiting to go to work and fix things.

tough shit, I know. but the fact that Bush is still a possibility in the contest -- not to mention the favorite he is -- means that game's over. it was over when Kerry turned the convention into a militaristic jerk-off fair. that was supposed to be the "progressive" party, you know.
what a barrel of laughs.
posted by matteo at 7:55 AM on September 28, 2004

this guy is so not going to win
posted by ParisParamus at 7:49 AM PST on September 28

This has exactly WHAT to do with Bush changes of policy?

Per Although polls show voters consider Bush more steadfast this looks to be all about Bush.

Any reason you care to give for yet another non-informative post Ms. ParisParamus?
posted by rough ashlar at 7:59 AM on September 28, 2004

Answer: this is not the face, and personae of a decisive, reassuring President. So, you can try to wishful think yourself that President Bush is somehow less consistent than Mr. K: YOU AIN'T FOOLIN NO ONE OUTSIDE OF METAFILTER.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:07 AM on September 28, 2004

Answer: this is not the face, and personae of a decisive, reassuring President.

Wow. So the President should be chosen on looks?

Have you graduated from high school yet Ms. ParisParamus? Or are you in Middle School still?
posted by rough ashlar at 8:12 AM on September 28, 2004

LOL... PP's a broken record, hasn't everyone figured it out by now? Every news of Bush is interrupted by his shrill "he's not going to win" whine.

Let's not feed the troll... "moderate" my ass.
posted by clevershark at 8:13 AM on September 28, 2004

In my previous I meant PP's shrill cries of "Kerry's not going to win" of course.

Not that anyone who's been on MeFi at all recently needs that clarification :-)
posted by clevershark at 8:15 AM on September 28, 2004

Sandals beat flip-flops every time.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:16 AM on September 28, 2004

posted by andryeevna at 8:19 AM on September 28, 2004

Wasn't it that great philosopher, Paul Simon, who once wrote, about John Kerry,

Flip-flopping away
Flip-flopping away
You know nearer the election
The more John's flip-flopping away...

posted by ParisParamus at 8:27 AM on September 28, 2004

Whatever your point of view, I think we all can agree with this sentiment.
posted by eatitlive at 8:31 AM on September 28, 2004

10 Positions?! Kerry's a walking political Kama Sutra!

posted by ParisParamus at 8:35 AM on September 28, 2004

Wow. So the President should be chosen on looks?

Should be? No. Will be? Well, maybe. I was talking to my mom the other night. She told me she was voting for Bush, because, and get this Kerry is a liar. Kerry, my god. So, I started taking her through all of Bush's lies, and she wasn't interested. I was a bit encouraged when she called out to my Dad that she was getting yelled at because she was going to vote for Bush, and my dad surprised her by saying he'd probably vote Kerry -- for the same reasons I'd just been reeling off.

So, I spend the next few days sending her an e-mail a day with reasons to send Bush packing, and she writes back to ask me how she can like Kerry. She hates the sound of his voice, and his face is funny and she can't stand his wife.

Is my mother unique? I doubt it. These are the things a large chunk of America are going to be voting on, and it makes me sick.

I still think Kerry's going to win. Registration's up, voting turnout will be incredibly high. Bush has been too big a disaster to be re-elected, but yeah, there are definitely people who are going to be voting based on how somebody looks. Don't fool yourself.

Find those people in your own family, and spend the next few month or so working on them to bring them to the side of enlightenment.
posted by willnot at 8:41 AM on September 28, 2004

10 Positions?! Kerry's a walking political Kama Sutra!

Yeah, but we all know how we're gonna get fucked if Bush is reelected.
posted by eatitlive at 8:42 AM on September 28, 2004

Not so much looks as emotional crediblity.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:48 AM on September 28, 2004

Groucho Marx lives!
posted by ParisParamus at 8:52 AM on September 28, 2004

Oh no: I just received a Cease and Desist letter from Paul Simon's lawyer..... : (
posted by ParisParamus at 8:54 AM on September 28, 2004

ParisParamus (PeePee for short): The dating thread is elsewhere. Why don't you go play with yourself there. And don't worry; if Bush gets elected this time, you're gonna get fucked as well.
posted by acrobat at 8:57 AM on September 28, 2004

acrobat: but only in a good way...
posted by ParisParamus at 9:01 AM on September 28, 2004

emotional crediblity.

Sort of like 'emotonal intelligence', a made-up term to console tohse who lack the regular kind.
posted by Space Coyote at 9:08 AM on September 28, 2004

Space Coyote: fated to a life of denying what's important in life, and believing everyone who disagrees, including most people, stupid....
posted by ParisParamus at 9:24 AM on September 28, 2004

I would be interested to see how many phrases coined in this thread appear in the major media in the next few days.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:34 AM on September 28, 2004

Good to know that Bill Clinton had two whole elections worth of "emotional credibility." (Guess that's the secret to scoring with the ladies)
posted by soyjoy at 10:16 AM on September 28, 2004

"...and a few links to backup his reasoning for those who don't."

Hey, now. I actually like what he does, but I still want to see him back up his reasoning. Moore isn't a prophet speaking from on high, he's a dude with a camera.
posted by majick at 10:26 AM on September 28, 2004

soyjoy: yep--it cuts both ways. But this time, the Democrats have the unelectable candidate, culturally, physically, and I suspect, ideologically.
posted by ParisParamus at 10:27 AM on September 28, 2004

ParisParimus's direct-from-his-arse assertions now taking on the weight of mainstream concensus, not even pretending to be correct but simply accepted. That's one step further into the hole. Paramus knows he's wrong, knows he can't defend it, but goes the Tucker Carlson route of just being smarmy and smug about his idea that his side still going to win. Such an empty soul.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:07 AM on September 28, 2004

What matteo said.
posted by rushmc at 11:29 AM on September 28, 2004

War is Peace.
posted by iamck at 11:50 AM on September 28, 2004

Paramus knows he's wrong, knows he can't defend it

it'll hurt a lot less once you give up those two delusions, SC.
posted by quonsar at 12:37 PM on September 28, 2004

Actaully q I do think that it's true. People who genuinely believe GW Bush is a good president will spit back RNC and talk radio talking points which would normally be debunked by thinking individuals, but which seem to circulate through the 'heartland'.. but he doesn't bother, leading me to think that he doesn't believe them.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:40 PM on September 28, 2004

I think PP is trying to convince himself more than anyone else.
posted by mcsweetie at 12:43 PM on September 28, 2004

posted by y2karl at 2:47 PM on September 28, 2004

posted by donth at 2:47 PM on September 28, 2004

This "Michael Moore" is a seriously underexposed gem of a pundit. How did you hear of him, acrobat?
posted by dhoyt at 3:13 PM on September 28, 2004




oh and for good measure....

posted by Dreamghost at 6:09 PM on September 28, 2004

*bursts through wall*

posted by quonsar at 6:16 PM on September 28, 2004

The Pentagon Papers guy has a plea to current administration officials, related to this.
posted by amberglow at 8:45 PM on September 28, 2004

"And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many. So I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the president made the decision that we'd achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq...

All of a sudden you've got a battle you're fighting in a major built-up city, a lot of civilians are around, significant limitations on our ability to use our most effective technologies and techniques...

Once we had rounded him up and gotten rid of his government, then the question is what do you put in its place? You know, you then have accepted the responsibility for governing Iraq...

Now what kind of government are you going to establish? Is it going to be a Kurdish government, or a Shi'ia government, or a Sunni government, or maybe a government based on the old Baathist Party, or some mixture thereof? You will have, I think by that time, lost the support of the Arab coalition that was so crucial to our operations over there...

I would guess if we had gone in there, I would still have forces in Baghdad today, we'd be running the country. We would not have been able to get everybody out and bring everybody home....

Dick Cheney at the Discovery Institute, Seattle, 1992
posted by y2karl at 10:54 AM on September 29, 2004

y2karl - brilliant.

So - who/what ate Cheney's brain ?
posted by troutfishing at 11:06 PM on September 29, 2004

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