Iran, Iran So Far Away
July 15, 2008 10:30 PM Subscribe
Regardless of whether or not the photos of recent Iranian missile tests were faked (previously), and regardless of whether Bush (and/or Israel) is planning to strike Iran (previously)--or is simply sabre-rattling--it certainly seems something's heating up: first, the BBC alerts the world that Canadian and other international troops stationed in Afghanistan may be targeted by Iranian missiles, and now the Bush administration claims Iran has the ability to strike Europe with its missiles. Note how both these claims involve allies who would likely have to consent to a US-led strike against Iran.
mr_roboto: Russia is clearly not liking Bush's insistence on missile defense:
"I think it's incumbent upon them when they make increasingly aggressive statements ... to justify those," [U.S. Missile Defense Agency director Lt. Gen. Henry A. "Trey" Obering III] said of Russian resistance. "There is absolutely no justification in our eyes for some of their statements and some of their concerns about these sites."
posted by ornate insect at 10:41 PM on July 15, 2008
"I think it's incumbent upon them when they make increasingly aggressive statements ... to justify those," [U.S. Missile Defense Agency director Lt. Gen. Henry A. "Trey" Obering III] said of Russian resistance. "There is absolutely no justification in our eyes for some of their statements and some of their concerns about these sites."
posted by ornate insect at 10:41 PM on July 15, 2008
They can strike Europe? And can be be ready to go in 90 minutes too?
Sorry, this is sounding just a bit too familiar.
Fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. [Pause.] Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
posted by barc0001 at 10:55 PM on July 15, 2008 [8 favorites]
Sorry, this is sounding just a bit too familiar.
Fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. [Pause.] Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
posted by barc0001 at 10:55 PM on July 15, 2008 [8 favorites]
Europe is a big place. Where are we talking about? Italy? Greece? Turkey?
Not to split hairs, but why in gods name would Iran shoot missiles at southern Europe?
FROM HELLS HEART I STRIKE AT THEE SARDINIA!
posted by Lord_Pall at 10:57 PM on July 15, 2008 [4 favorites]
Not to split hairs, but why in gods name would Iran shoot missiles at southern Europe?
FROM HELLS HEART I STRIKE AT THEE SARDINIA!
posted by Lord_Pall at 10:57 PM on July 15, 2008 [4 favorites]
Iran is playing D; they'd never take a first punch at a NATO member, and everyone knows that.
I think the neo-cons are trying to pipe grain alcohol up the collective sphincter of the press.
posted by trondant at 11:01 PM on July 15, 2008
I think the neo-cons are trying to pipe grain alcohol up the collective sphincter of the press.
posted by trondant at 11:01 PM on July 15, 2008
I think the neo-cons are trying to pipe grain alcohol up the collective sphincter of the press.
Question is, will the press fall for another moonshine-enema?
posted by ornate insect at 11:04 PM on July 15, 2008
Question is, will the press fall for another moonshine-enema?
posted by ornate insect at 11:04 PM on July 15, 2008
Iran's Corbomite Maneuver seems to be working so far. All that's missing is for the Iranian President to say:
Death has little meaning to us.
If it has none to you...
then attack us now.
We grow annoyed at your foolishness.
I know I am growing tired of all this foolishness.
posted by three blind mice at 11:05 PM on July 15, 2008
Death has little meaning to us.
If it has none to you...
then attack us now.
We grow annoyed at your foolishness.
I know I am growing tired of all this foolishness.
posted by three blind mice at 11:05 PM on July 15, 2008
So, while there's probably something to your theory, is there anything other than a group of random news links here?
Which is a nice way of saying "What the hell is this doing on the front page of Metafilter?"
posted by tkolar at 11:07 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Which is a nice way of saying "What the hell is this doing on the front page of Metafilter?"
posted by tkolar at 11:07 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
there's probably something to your theory
what theory is that?
random news links
if you see a theory (I see only an emerging story and one well worth keeping an eye on) then you admit the news links are not, in fact, "random."
posted by ornate insect at 11:21 PM on July 15, 2008
what theory is that?
random news links
if you see a theory (I see only an emerging story and one well worth keeping an eye on) then you admit the news links are not, in fact, "random."
posted by ornate insect at 11:21 PM on July 15, 2008
Well, when you're 10 trillion in debt, and spent most of it buying guns, you're a spoiler for a fight.
I think, while facile, this sentiment is actually what passes for governing logic among the Neo-Cons - never to question just *why* we're spent into a hole on weapons industries, but rather to take it as axiomatic, and look for ways to recoup our losses (and, maybe, turn a profit) through strategic militarism.
They might look at Rome, or even the USSR, for examples of how fragile this model is. You can only throw so many billion-dollar fireworks at guerrillas armed with twenty-dollar Kalashnikovs, and you'll soon be fighting against Mathematics itself.
posted by kid ichorous at 11:29 PM on July 15, 2008 [4 favorites]
I think, while facile, this sentiment is actually what passes for governing logic among the Neo-Cons - never to question just *why* we're spent into a hole on weapons industries, but rather to take it as axiomatic, and look for ways to recoup our losses (and, maybe, turn a profit) through strategic militarism.
They might look at Rome, or even the USSR, for examples of how fragile this model is. You can only throw so many billion-dollar fireworks at guerrillas armed with twenty-dollar Kalashnikovs, and you'll soon be fighting against Mathematics itself.
posted by kid ichorous at 11:29 PM on July 15, 2008 [4 favorites]
Bush administration to negotiate with Iran. US Diplomats will meet with Iranians in Switzerland this weekend.
posted by delmoi at 11:34 PM on July 15, 2008
posted by delmoi at 11:34 PM on July 15, 2008
re: delmoi's link: looks as if Condi Rice is attempting to prove to the hawks in the WH that diplomacy is still possible:
The package of incentives was accompanied by a letter from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the foreign ministers of the other five countries and sets out a scenario in which Iran would get a temporary reprieve from economic and financial sanctions in exchange for freezing its enrichment activities.
posted by ornate insect at 11:38 PM on July 15, 2008
The package of incentives was accompanied by a letter from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the foreign ministers of the other five countries and sets out a scenario in which Iran would get a temporary reprieve from economic and financial sanctions in exchange for freezing its enrichment activities.
posted by ornate insect at 11:38 PM on July 15, 2008
Note how both these claims involve allies who would likely have to consent to a US-led strike against Iran.
I highly doubt Canada would have to consent to a US-led strike against Iran, and the BBC report, as it quotes a think tank, is a bit of a red herring. The National Post likes the "Ready, aye, ready!" jingoist stories, but, at the end of the day, is just like the WSJ: the Financial Pages are what people really pay attention to.
Anyway, the Canadian public isn't stupid, and would not be influenced by this sort of sabre-rattling rhetoric - the threat of a missile attack on our troops in southeastern Afghanistan would probably convince Canadians that we should get our troops out of there, and fast, more than anything else.
The Canadian government isn't stupid, either. We're pulling out boys, by 2010, regardless of whether or not the job is done. We've done our bit for the War on Terror, despite near criminal negligence of the American military machine and its tendency to ignore Afghanistan ever since it invaded the country back in 2001. Canada also has put up with the near criminal incompetence of the NATO in its efforts to avoid doing any kind of work in Afghanistan. Cowards. Iranian missiles would be a godsend, because at least it will get us out of Afghanistan.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:40 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
I highly doubt Canada would have to consent to a US-led strike against Iran, and the BBC report, as it quotes a think tank, is a bit of a red herring. The National Post likes the "Ready, aye, ready!" jingoist stories, but, at the end of the day, is just like the WSJ: the Financial Pages are what people really pay attention to.
Anyway, the Canadian public isn't stupid, and would not be influenced by this sort of sabre-rattling rhetoric - the threat of a missile attack on our troops in southeastern Afghanistan would probably convince Canadians that we should get our troops out of there, and fast, more than anything else.
The Canadian government isn't stupid, either. We're pulling out boys, by 2010, regardless of whether or not the job is done. We've done our bit for the War on Terror, despite near criminal negligence of the American military machine and its tendency to ignore Afghanistan ever since it invaded the country back in 2001. Canada also has put up with the near criminal incompetence of the NATO in its efforts to avoid doing any kind of work in Afghanistan. Cowards. Iranian missiles would be a godsend, because at least it will get us out of Afghanistan.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:40 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
More precisely, 9.5 teradollars and counting. Not talking about it this election is like ignoring a spot on a chest x-ray.
posted by kid ichorous at 11:40 PM on July 15, 2008
posted by kid ichorous at 11:40 PM on July 15, 2008
U.S. says Iran has missile that could hit Europe
I won't believe it until I see the powerpoint
posted by mattoxic at 11:45 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
I won't believe it until I see the powerpoint
posted by mattoxic at 11:45 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
KokuRyu--I think the neocons who are still pushing for a strike on Iran are grasping at straws in terms of trying to find a justification, and have been doing so for some time now. They would prefer not to go it alone, but rather find at least some support. I agree that any support is highly unlikely at present. But the neocons, despite having lost all credibility, are a stubborn and patient lot, and this recent flurry of news seems like yet more propagandistic evidence of their intentions.
posted by ornate insect at 11:50 PM on July 15, 2008
posted by ornate insect at 11:50 PM on July 15, 2008
As John McCain would say, we really need missile defense batteries in Czechoslovakia to defend against this potential danger.
[He actually did say that:]
Another problem for McCain is that on July 4, 2008 — less than a week before the Iranian Missile Testing — Poland rejected the idea of allowing a missile shield defense system in its country. Bush has offered many bribes for his missile defense shield to the Polish, but they have said no. Consistently.
Well, at least he didn’t forget Poland…
posted by DreamerFi at 2:35 AM on July 16, 2008
[He actually did say that:]
“Iran’s most recent missile tests demonstrate again the dangers it poses to its neighbors and to the wider region, especially Israel. Ballistic missile testing coupled with Iran’s continued refusal to cease its nuclear activities should unite the international community in efforts to counter Iran’s dangerous ambitions. Iran’s missile tests also demonstrate the need for effective missile defense now and in the future, and this includes missile defense in Europe as is planned with the Czech Republic and Poland. Working with our European and regional allies is the best way to meet the threat posed by Iran, not unilateral concessions that undermine multilateral diplomacy.”The farthest a Sahab 3 Missile can fly is 1,300 miles. Experts call it “a medium-range missile capable of hitting targets in Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Turkey.” And the distance between Tabriz, Iran and Krakow, Poland is 1,538.3 miles. The distance between Tabriz, Iran and Ostrava in the Czech Republic is even greater — 1602.2 miles. So, McCain is promising Americans a defense for Iranian missiles that can’t even reach the defense.
Another problem for McCain is that on July 4, 2008 — less than a week before the Iranian Missile Testing — Poland rejected the idea of allowing a missile shield defense system in its country. Bush has offered many bribes for his missile defense shield to the Polish, but they have said no. Consistently.
Well, at least he didn’t forget Poland…
posted by DreamerFi at 2:35 AM on July 16, 2008
America is that popular guy you knew in high school. Beautiful, free, a bit dumb and crazy as hell. All that youthfull promise and potential matured into vain, reckless, staggering stupidity and a full break from reality.
Yet the world still fills with hope when there are moments of self-awareness, lucidity and sobriety. America then basks in that hope and gains confidence, remembers past glory and pictures future success and decides that now, finally now, he can handle trying some crystal meth. Because he is finally ready.
posted by srboisvert at 3:22 AM on July 16, 2008 [3 favorites]
Yet the world still fills with hope when there are moments of self-awareness, lucidity and sobriety. America then basks in that hope and gains confidence, remembers past glory and pictures future success and decides that now, finally now, he can handle trying some crystal meth. Because he is finally ready.
posted by srboisvert at 3:22 AM on July 16, 2008 [3 favorites]
Note to McCain: Czechoslovakia doesn’t exist anymore. The senior senator from Arizona continually refers to a country that hasn't existed for 16 years. (Yes, lots of other people do, too, but they aren't running for president based on their experience and foreign policy knowledge.) He was even mocked for it by George W. Bush in 2000.
Adopting Obama's position after initially mocking it, same as with North Korea. And yesterday McCain adopted Obama's position of withdrawing troops from Iraq and reinforcing troops in Afghanistan.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:18 AM on July 16, 2008
US Diplomats will meet with Iranians in Switzerland this weekend.
Adopting Obama's position after initially mocking it, same as with North Korea. And yesterday McCain adopted Obama's position of withdrawing troops from Iraq and reinforcing troops in Afghanistan.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:18 AM on July 16, 2008
Interesting news today about Iran and US relations:
US plans to station diplomats in Iran for first time since 1979
posted by dawiz at 9:34 PM on July 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
US plans to station diplomats in Iran for first time since 1979
posted by dawiz at 9:34 PM on July 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
dawiz, that plus the direct envoy suggests to me that something has changed under the table. Perhaps intelligence cooperation regarding the Sadr Army? Somebody gave up something.
Similar to US-Soviet relations where nuclear-tipped bluster was matched by wheat and energy trade.
posted by dhartung at 12:17 AM on July 17, 2008
Similar to US-Soviet relations where nuclear-tipped bluster was matched by wheat and energy trade.
posted by dhartung at 12:17 AM on July 17, 2008
if anyone is still reading this thread, here is some relevant and updated news regarding the recent Geneva talks.
posted by ornate insect at 6:25 AM on July 20, 2008
posted by ornate insect at 6:25 AM on July 20, 2008
Why Bush folded on Iran: Reality, of the military and petroleum-based variety, forced the administration to change course. Now Bush sounds like Obama.
posted by homunculus at 4:19 PM on July 31, 2008
posted by homunculus at 4:19 PM on July 31, 2008
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posted by mr_roboto at 10:36 PM on July 15, 2008 [2 favorites]