"Ignore him. It's the price of play."
September 11, 2014 8:39 PM   Subscribe

Perils of The Lady Gamer. – a New Graphical Diversion by webcomic artist and writer Shaenon K. Garrity (previously).

More webcomics by Shaenon K. Garrity.

The Big Feminist BUT – edited by Joan Reilly and Shannon O’Leary, and with many contributors, including Garrity. More complete information (and a video) at this closed Kickstarter page.

An excerpt from "Hello: Video Games Are For Everybody" at Rock, Paper, Shotgun:
This is horrible, why can't we keep the politics out of games? Why can't we just talk about the games?

This is one of those deeply tricky philosophy type things: not talking about politics is actually taking a political stance on them. It doesn't keep the politics out. Tricky, right? It seems like a trick. But it's really not: just talking about the games, without questioning anything, is you taking a political stance on games because it amounts saying that you completely accept the games at face value. Your stance on their politics is: this is fine. You can't just talk about the games, because they can't be pulled apart from the ideas and circumstances that brought them into being. You can ignore problems, or just not see them, and that's okay. But if you talk about games, you talk about politics.
Hat-tips: Doktor Zed and Harald74.

Previously: Women as Background Decoration: Part 2 (Tropes vs Women in Video Games), Just some shitty nerds in an IRC channel.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome (134 comments total) 61 users marked this as a favorite
 
This hurt my feelings. I'm a victim of Reverse Sexism.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:55 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]


It's just the internet, prick. That's how it is.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 9:11 PM on September 11, 2014


I dunno, I mean the topic is important and Garrity is pretty much correct about everything in the comic but that doesn't necessarily make it a good comic if you see what I mean. It didn't bring anything new to the table.
posted by Justinian at 9:13 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]


Oh good we get to rehash this shitfight again so quickly! Point of order but if Team Rapine is some sort of allegory to the PA dickwolves strip, it never actually showed a dickwolf or them chasing after a young maiden to rape them.
posted by Talez at 9:17 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]


That was actually the one part of the comic I thought was kind of clever, really. The "An Irishman" bit was gold.
posted by Justinian at 9:18 PM on September 11, 2014 [10 favorites]


This is well-executed and, sadly, called for. Me, I don't want to live on this planet any more.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:18 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]


This comic came out not long after a games journalist had this conversation with a female dev.
posted by CarolynG at 9:20 PM on September 11, 2014 [14 favorites]


This comic came out not long after a games journalist had this conversation with a female dev.

What kind of human could think that's even vaguely acceptable to another human being? Because I totally hear all the time "DUDE IF YOU LET ME IN ON THE BUZZ I'LL TOTALLY SUCK YOUR DICK!"
posted by Talez at 9:22 PM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]


I found this Storified Twitter exchange linked in the RPS post pretty powerful.
posted by Phatty Lumpkin at 9:23 PM on September 11, 2014 [11 favorites]


This comic came out not long after a games journalist had this conversation with a female dev.

It also contains a clever allusion to the mistake Penny Arcade made after bad reader reactions to the dickwolves.
posted by voltairemodern at 9:27 PM on September 11, 2014 [4 favorites]


I read the whole Rock Paper Shotgun piece, and that's some inside baseball for real. I have no idea what they're talking about.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 9:30 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]


The Toast did a similar thing earlier today. I liked them both.

This summer has just been the perfect thing for getting me to quit video games and reddit. Every single time I get tempted by my habits and rose colored forgetfulness, shitty people get supported by awful communities, and good people get shit on, and I remember that I have books I want to read.

I've started to learn woodworking. My apartment balcony is a mess of sawdust, and I have so many splinters.

Thank you* male-nerd culture, you grossed me out till I left, and I'm glad.


* editors note: "thank you" and "fuck you" are interchangeable in this context
posted by DGStieber at 9:33 PM on September 11, 2014 [24 favorites]


Also alludes to the fact that the original version of Monopoly was invented by a woman who received very little pay or recognition for her creation; a man who copied her work got the credit instead.
posted by BlueJae at 9:35 PM on September 11, 2014 [32 favorites]


I read the whole Rock Paper Shotgun piece, and that's some inside baseball for real. I have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm crossposting JauntyFedora's summary from the Zoe Quinn thread. Zoe Quinn made a free game called Depression Quest:
Basically, several feminist voices in the world of gaming have been receiving extreme harassment, to the point of doxing, death threats, releasing nude photos, etc. Some of the attackers of these individuals and their supporters are justifying their actions by claiming that they are prime examples of ethical lapses between video game creators and critics, including personal relationships, financial support, etc. While video game makers and reviewers have often been (figuratively) in bed with each other through advertising deals, free demo copies, and the like, suddenly everyone decides it's time to do something about it because Zoe Quinn might have had a sexual relationship with a reviewer (who IIRC didn't even review her game), and now it's turned into a big misogynistic, slut-shaming mess.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:01 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]


This hurt my feelings. I'm a victim of Reverse Sexism.

Obligatory Manfeels Park strip.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:05 PM on September 11, 2014 [11 favorites]


I found this Storified Twitter exchange linked in the RPS post pretty powerful.

That was fascinating.

It's an excellent illustration on how much the gamergate crowd are acting on pure reflexive instinct, without critical thought. And an excellent demonstration on how to gently get someone to actually examine their positions.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:17 PM on September 11, 2014


I like the comic. And wow that the conversation CarolynG relates is horrifying.
posted by JHarris at 10:26 PM on September 11, 2014


Also, you guys are overlooking that one of the stands in the comic is named World of Whistcraft.
posted by JHarris at 10:37 PM on September 11, 2014 [9 favorites]


I found this Storified Twitter exchange linked in the RPS post pretty powerful.

Wow, that was fantastic. I'm going to save that for the next time a man asks what he can do about sexism.
posted by dialetheia at 10:43 PM on September 11, 2014


I hope this conversation was forwarded to the publications that person works for (or submits to). If his bosses (or publications he writes for) knows that he is representing their organizations in that way - I don't think he'd be allowed to in the future.

That conversation only makes sense if the two were already lovers. Probably a safe assumption that they weren't.
posted by el io at 10:53 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I seriously doubt that she'd have talked about her divorce that way if they were.
posted by NoraReed at 11:04 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]


Why did they give that douche the privilege of obscuring his identity though...
posted by MartinWisse at 11:31 PM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]


Great comic, I laughed (and frowned)
posted by kyp at 11:38 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]


Of course it's amusing in part because Victorian sexism would actually have been less crude than some modern manifestations. The Victorian kind would have masqueraded as concern, perhaps as patronising applause. Most men would have stood up in her presence, taken off their hats, addressed her as Miss or Ma'am, found her a chair. If any lout had uttered vulgarities some gentleman would have offered himself, with due apologies for his forwardness, as her champion, to protect and ahem, guide her.

Somewhere between the Mad Men and the Big Bang I think we sort of dropped the ball a bit. We needed to change You must respect women as the weaker sex into You must respect women as human equals. Instead, in some quarters, we got That respect shit is outdated and sexist; women have to deal with whatever we choose to throw at them now.
posted by Segundus at 1:01 AM on September 12, 2014 [12 favorites]


Of course, don't forget that Victorian courtesy was only for the ladies of good breeding, not the women of the lower classes. Let's not kid ourselves.
posted by sukeban at 2:10 AM on September 12, 2014 [12 favorites]


Make it "Anglo-Saxon ladies of good breeding," while we're at it.
posted by sukeban at 2:12 AM on September 12, 2014 [8 favorites]


What kind of human could think that's even vaguely acceptable to another human being?

A kind we've been talking about a lot in past such threads, so I'm no longer surprised by this. (And a bit frustrated by this kind of wide-eyed shock that always comes up when we do. Not a slag against you, my apologies, but I just get frustrated that people still seem so surprised at how bad it can get when we've had so many discussions about sexism in here.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:33 AM on September 12, 2014 [10 favorites]


Easy: women aren't human beings, we're just a hole and two boobs to fuck. We should just be rolling over and letting any random man shove it in at any time he wants, donchaknow.

I am not a gamer. I have a short attention span and zone out a lot while playing anything, so most of the time I don't. This is probably a good thing, under the circumstances, so I don't get death threats for it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:01 AM on September 12, 2014 [3 favorites]


Of course it's amusing in part because Victorian sexism would actually have been less crude than some modern manifestations.

Please remember that in the Victorian era women could not hold property on their own if married because they surrendered their legal identity upon being wed, seek a divorce for any reason, including marital rape which did not legally exist until the 1890’s, and if a man claimed they contracted a venereal disease from one they could be arrested and confined to a lock hospital as a common prostitute, among other horrors. Women who went places that were 'male' places without male protection (all of them, really) were subject to vicious and direct attack verbal and physical and when it happened were deemed to have deserved it because unaccompanied women were considered prostitutes.

It was a terrifying time and as bad as it is now it was worse then. Just because their literature only indirectly references these things does not mean they were nicer about it.
posted by winna at 3:29 AM on September 12, 2014 [29 favorites]


"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
-some old Indian nerd.
posted by nerdler at 5:18 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


The Victorian kind would have masqueraded as concern, perhaps as patronising applause. Most men would have stood up in her presence, taken off their hats, addressed her as Miss or Ma'am, found her a chair.

As with the long tradition of "respecting" women in this fashion, there were generally some huge caveats that respectable status was something a woman could lose, and the roles for you outside of that were horrendous. An echo of this is the arbitrary way we apply "slut" today, often simply to women who are disliked.

Typically the ridiculous courtly nonsense applied proportionate to the status of the women and asked certain concessions of behavior that were very straight jacketing (being escorted everywhere, keeping to weird appearance standards, careful limits on who you talked to and what you talked about), and at the time if you didn't play along the gloves came off and you could expect all manner of nastiness. Not only did women risk not being perceived as "good" or "nice", but association with people who were deemed beyond respect could taint you.

The idea that "nice women don't want the vote", for example is quaint and cute phrasing, but not nice women weren't just unpleasant- they were seen as whores, with all the vulgarity implied in my choice of language.

Of course people are people, so there was plenty of hypocrisy and double standards and people who bucked the trend in their private lives. The Victorians were as complicated as anyone else. But the business of respect in the flowery sense was so limited in application that I'm not going to mourn that it's not part of my life today.
posted by Phalene at 6:13 AM on September 12, 2014 [13 favorites]


>Why did they give that douche the privilege of obscuring his identity though...

While he doesn't deserve anonymity, it's probably a matter of safety for the developer.
posted by papercrane at 6:15 AM on September 12, 2014 [3 favorites]


I liked this but...
... there needs to be more Monster of the Week!
posted by charred husk at 6:52 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


I attempted to share the RPS article with a friend who has a Twitch stream and has temporarily banned discussion of the Zoe Quinn/Anita Sarkeesian/GamerGate discussion in his chat room, where I mod and do encounter this negativity, as well as 4chan talking points. I felt that by removing discussion in an attempt to be apolitical, just as the paragraph joseph conrad quoted, he was making a political statement, and likely not the one he was intending.

I believe that we need men actively on the side of women in gaming. White men have told me that SJWs have told them their white male status somehow disqualifies them from participating in conversations about feminism, but at the same time they frequently come into said conversations saying things like "it's not that bad. Aren't you overreacting?" and "Women sharing their experiences is good, but what about me? What about my perspective?"

There's got to be something else that can be done that isn't verbally fistfighting trolls on Twitter or fleeing the whole mess.
posted by koucha at 7:04 AM on September 12, 2014 [5 favorites]


Every time I see it, this comic makes me smirk, because it's so (sadly, bitterly) truthy.
posted by immlass at 7:31 AM on September 12, 2014 [3 favorites]


This comic came out not long after a games journalist had this conversation with a female dev.

I . . . I don't . . . Seriously I'm speechless. I'm never speechless, and that's twice this week. WTF people? This is not how you talk to other humans. (Also, you don't knock them unconscious and drag them out of the elevator and hope no one notices.)
posted by The Bellman at 7:39 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


This summer has just been the perfect thing for getting me to quit video games

It's inspiring me to get back into video games because of feminism and spite. My two favorite causes!
posted by almostmanda at 7:48 AM on September 12, 2014 [22 favorites]


I don't want to edge close to victim-blaming, but I wish there was a way to have more name-and-shame'ing of conversations like what CarolynG points us to.

Part of the problem is that men can't quite appreciate the women's position because they don't see this behavior. Only the women do. I'd bet this guy's buddies would think "nah, he's not creepy," because he doesn't show them this shit. It would help if the other men around this guy had the opportunity to tell him that it's gross and out of line.
posted by tyllwin at 7:48 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


> There's got to be something else that can be done that isn't verbally fistfighting trolls on Twitter or fleeing the whole mess.

This MetaFilter thread is a great resource. It's not gaming centric, but I think it applies.

If it taught me anything it's that silence is often mistaken as agreement, and if even all I say is "Don't be that guy," I can help make it clear that I don't stand with the harasser, that his actions are not acceptable to me. It's not much, but maybe we can start to change the culture and the social norms of what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviour.
posted by papercrane at 7:49 AM on September 12, 2014 [2 favorites]


Trending at the moment is #FakeyGamer:

@miyoung: i guess i'm a #fakeygamer bc i prefer to play through a game on easy mode first so i can just see the story/enjoy myself

@marc_tassin I am a #FakeyGamer because I walk everywhere in Skyrim to enjoy the scenery rather than fast-travelling to the next quest location.

@bigheadzach I am a #FakeyGamer because I got #DepressionQuest despite not having depression, plus I remember when games were ONLY text adventures.
posted by metaquarry at 8:03 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


We should just be rolling over and letting any random man shove it in at any time he wants, donchaknow.

No, because then you'd be a conniving slut sleeping with people to get what you want. You're only supposed to let ONE man shove it in any time he wants.

And each man is entitled to think he's that one man.
posted by ctmf at 8:11 AM on September 12, 2014 [2 favorites]


I appreciate that, papercrane, and I'm going to share the Leigh Alexander link with my friend, but I was thinking more for me, as a gaming female who isn't directly being harassed but for whom all of this is hitting super close to home.
posted by koucha at 8:39 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


Thanks for explaining the Sarkeesian/police thing in the last thread. Like I've said before, my son is a channer heavily invested in this issue and I am inundated with this stuff. I find myself fact checking everything and I wasn't sure how to fact check that phone call.

My son really trumpets this Fine Young Capitalists project as proof that the gamergaters aren't misogynist. I can't seem to explain to him that a bunch of young white guys creating a female video game character like they're doing women a fucking favor isn't a feminist act. The bar for feminism seems to set at "didn't rape anybody."
posted by Biblio at 8:39 AM on September 12, 2014 [5 favorites]


I remember a time when text adventure folk were super sniffy about anything with graphics...
posted by Artw at 8:40 AM on September 12, 2014 [3 favorites]


I found this Storified Twitter exchange linked in the RPS post pretty powerful.

Probably don't check what the guy Brett Douville was talking to is up to now, then.
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:51 AM on September 12, 2014


Well, that's sure disappointing, given that I'd used that exchange as an example of how much work "perfect" education can take. Still not enough, I guess.
posted by Corinth at 9:07 AM on September 12, 2014


Ah, sorry koucha, I thought you meant generally for men in gaming who want to support women in gaming.

For what it's worth (which I know isn't much, I'm just a random guy on the internet,) I think you're doing good work. You're having these conversations with your friend, and those conversations are important.
posted by papercrane at 9:09 AM on September 12, 2014


I want to say that the people involved in the conversation above were eventually outed (voluntarily on the part of the victim) and the gross dude got fired. Can't remember the details now though.
posted by kmz at 9:10 AM on September 12, 2014


Point of order but if Team Rapine is some sort of allegory to the PA dickwolves strip, it never actually showed a dickwolf or them chasing after a young maiden to rape them.

oh well if they never showed a dickwolf
posted by kagredon at 9:13 AM on September 12, 2014 [14 favorites]


I can't seem to explain to him that a bunch of young white guys creating a female video game character like they're doing women a fucking favor isn't a feminist act.

"Creating a female video game character" doesn't seem like an accurate description of their stated goal: to develop best game idea out of 5 designs by women.
posted by 0 at 9:16 AM on September 12, 2014


I think the the #gamergate people have gotten their made-up girl gamer into the TFYC game and might be using that as an example of bettering female representation in games?
posted by Corinth at 9:21 AM on September 12, 2014 [2 favorites]


Yes, I am specifically talking about "Vivian James" the character created by 4chan. She actually physically represents 4chan through the use of symbols and colors in her design. But she doesn't look like Lara Croft and she has "low affect" so women should be grateful, right?
posted by Biblio at 9:27 AM on September 12, 2014 [5 favorites]


Fine Young Capitalists mostly looks like one of those scammy competitions set up to screw people out of IP.
posted by Artw at 9:38 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


Point of order but if Team Rapine is some sort of allegory to the PA dickwolves strip, it never actually showed a dickwolf or them chasing after a young maiden to rape them.

Not in the original strip, no. However, when PA doubled down and made dickwolf merchandise, Mike Krahulik did draw a representation of one (more or less a slightly anthropomorphized wolf head). Much worse, Krahulik later drew a fairly NSFW version of one (complete with penises instead of arms/legs) in a streaming session he did. Google image search "penny arcade dickwolf" and it's pretty high up there on the list.
posted by tocts at 9:42 AM on September 12, 2014 [3 favorites]


The police report truther thing is so bizarre to me - they're working themselves into a frenzy over whether their harassment did or did not cause a woman to call the police, with I guess the implication that as long as you don't drive her to leave her house and notify the authorities, you're in the clear? I mean, obviously Anita is infinitely more trustworthy than these chucklefucks, and I believe her completely, but their behavior is deranged even if you dip into the gutter to buy their premise.
posted by Corinth at 9:43 AM on September 12, 2014 [7 favorites]


I would read an entire book of pastiches of 19th century editorial cartoons in reference to Internet happenings.
posted by PMdixon at 9:49 AM on September 12, 2014 [10 favorites]


I mean, I think what's happening here is the dudes with the weirdo anti-Anita Patreon are scrambling for whatever objectionable things they can find to justify its existence. They have to produce something but this is the best they're coming up with.

I can't wait to find out what other ways Anita is failing to respond to torrential harassment appropriately in the eyes of those responsible for said harassment.
posted by almostmanda at 9:53 AM on September 12, 2014 [7 favorites]


"Creating a female video game character" doesn't seem like an accurate description of their stated goal: to develop best game idea out of 5 designs by women.
I believe he's referring to the /v/ thread in which the character was conceived, planned, and developed -- and the fact that the 4chan #gamergate squad has enthusiastically trumpeted Vivian as their contribution to the world of gaming.

There's a decent post on her genesis, and I think it makes the point pretty effectively: regardless of the merits of the resulting character, /v/ came up with her as a way to deflect criticism, and considers that her primary value.
posted by verb at 10:27 AM on September 12, 2014 [4 favorites]


Point of order but if Team Rapine is some sort of allegory to the PA dickwolves strip, it never actually showed a dickwolf or them chasing after a young maiden to rape them.

The t-shirts they made to rub the dickwolves issue in the faces of people who complained did, though.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on September 12, 2014 [3 favorites]


And I know that someone else addressed the dickwolves issue already in thread but something that skeezemonkeyish needs to be mentioned twice to drive the point home.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:29 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


tyllwin: Absolutely. Also, I think there's a lot of "Schrödinger's Douchebag" going on, where someone will only decide how 'ironic' and ha ha funny they were after they can base it on responses to it. So, if they're called on it "dude, I was totally joking" and if not, well, hey.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:13 AM on September 12, 2014 [2 favorites]


"Here we prove nobody is doing weird stalky things by doing weird stalky things!"
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on September 12, 2014 [5 favorites]


"Here we prove nobody is doing weird stalky things by doing weird stalky things!"

"I am here in the bushes outside Anita Sarkeesian's house, and can confirm that there's no one here. She's making this all up!"
posted by almostmanda at 11:57 AM on September 12, 2014 [33 favorites]


The (mostly female) folks over at Isometric podcast talked about gamersgate in their most recent show. It's hard to listen to, but worth it.
posted by archagon at 1:59 PM on September 12, 2014 [4 favorites]


> This comic came out not long after a games journalist had this conversation with a female dev.

> I want to say that the people involved in the conversation above were eventually outed (voluntarily on the part of the victim) and the gross dude got fired. Can't remember the details now though.

i got curious. josh mattingly apologized (first comment, original link doesn't seem to work/got deleted), resigned. she was only willing to comment under the fake name alice mercier because she's scared of not being able to work in the industry. in fact every woman quoted in that kotaku article did so anonymously.
Mercier herself has worked in the game industry for the better part of a decade. In that time, she's learned to police her own behavior scrupulously, to navigate a potential minefield of sexual comments and predatory behavior and keep quiet for fear of being labeled a problem.

At a gaming convention, one professional acquaintance cornered her into an extended and increasingly sexual hug. "I'd be thinking, 'please let me go,' but then there were a bunch of people around me, and the people that were around were people I'd be interested in working with, who worked for companies I'd love to work for," she tells me. She remembers what she told herself: "Try not to make a scene, because you don't want to be 'that girl,' and you don't want to ruin the overall mood."
i liked archagon's link, def worth a listen, it was posted in the zoe quinn thread and i already quoted some fucked up bits, so i'll do a different one (1:11 in):
the saddest thing is we need the men in this industry in positions of power to stand up and change some of this stuff and they're just not listening. they are not doing anything. and it's ruining womens' careers at this point. it is having awful consequences-- i could wake up tomorrow and maddy might be their next target. i might be their next target, amanda might be their next target, alexa of polygon could be their next target, susan, anyone is fair game with these rules and no one is doing anything about it and it is terrifying.
to sum up, when twyllin posted earlier:

I don't want to edge close to victim-blaming, but I wish there was a way to have more name-and-shame'ing of conversations like what CarolynG points us to.

Part of the problem is that men can't quite appreciate the women's position because they don't see this behavior. Only the women do. I'd bet this guy's buddies would think "nah, he's not creepy," because he doesn't show them this shit. It would help if the other men around this guy had the opportunity to tell him that it's gross and out of line.


the answer seems to be, the women are punished for naming and shaming, in fact they're afraid to be the ones shamed (and much worse if you've been following the zoe quinn thing). and the men who know aren't necessarily willing to do anything. going, again, back to that kotaku article, an anecdote about a (different) serial harasser:
Frightened for their jobs, she and several colleagues finally compared stories and collectively went to HR. They say that their harasser was fired but that he got an equivalent job—again, in a managerial position—at another company. The women who reported him, meanwhile, tell me they were banned from discussing the case.
move him along to a different parish and don't tell anybody his name. consequences for anybody who talks.
posted by twist my arm at 3:19 PM on September 12, 2014 [16 favorites]


went on /v/

raid threads filled with self righteousness and anime butts
posted by postcommunism at 8:22 PM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]


And now someone is trying to troll #gamergate by associating it with GNAA?
posted by postcommunism at 8:38 PM on September 12, 2014


And now someone is trying to troll #gamergate by associating it with GNAA?

I had to look up what that means. Which led to some history about hacking collectives which was sorta interesting. Internet is crazy.

Then I took a peek at the GG tag where I saw an announce about the troll. Then I went to the GNAA tag and I laughed. I feel really bad about laughing because I can't tell what's serious and what's satire and jokes. And some of what they are tweeting joke or not is pretty awful. Whatever it is it does seem to be quite the troll and some people seem to be upset at it.

It seems like really awful trolls,trolling really awful trolls in an awful way. I dug a little deeper and it is looks like the GNAA troll is because of trolling that the GGer's did of another person, who may have been trolling, or was a false flag writer for Kokatu, or was a writer at Kokatu, or might have posted a picture of his weenie. This person may have been trolling another group of GGer's and might have been doxed by them in retaliation.

Can I laugh some more please?
posted by Jalliah at 9:07 PM on September 12, 2014




Oh Christina H Sommers and the Briebart.com writer Milo something or other think the 4chan people are the best and really friendly. They think GG is very respectful. And the bad stuff is likely false flags.

Mine mind is so changed now.


This really seems to be turning into a right wing political thing. Guess that's not surprising.
posted by Jalliah at 9:21 PM on September 12, 2014


Yes, I am specifically talking about "Vivian James" the character created by 4chan. She actually physically represents 4chan through the use of symbols and colors in her design.

In the previous thread, skwirl said:
Her token colors, purple and green, are a troll to remind the viewer of the Piccolo Dick/Daily Dose meme.

Is this documented? It's hard for me to believe it's coincidence, but it's almost as hard to believe (sorry Empress!) that they would be this obvious? Is is supposed to be a cute in-joke and they are counting on plausible deniability? Is putting Vivian in a rapist's colors supposed to be some kind of "empowering" reversal, like she's as strong as a man who rapes for vengeance?

Anyone who knows the gamer scene/memes willing to clue me in? I looked up Piccolo Dick and I think it's the first time a gif made me want to vomit.
posted by torticat at 10:16 PM on September 12, 2014


Reading /v/ right now is high comedy at this point. Lots of angry accusations that the "issues" are too complex for twitter, and someone needs to make new arrow-covered image collages.

"PLS SUGGEST CREDIBLE ETHICS ISSUES!!"
posted by verb at 10:16 PM on September 12, 2014 [4 favorites]


Over on Reddit, a lot of the #gamergate geniuses are congregating in /r/KotakuInAction, since they blame Kotaku for anything and everything. Someone has catalogued the brilliant analysis which comes from such a think tank and it's a quite interesting train wreck. One commentator from that link compares #gamergate to the Tea Party, which seems quite astute. With #gamergate hooking up with Breitbart, I think Republicans may have found the angry gullible young men they were looking for.

Speaking of Vivian James, someone's co-opted /v/'s new mascot and is just amazing.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:30 AM on September 13, 2014 [6 favorites]


I'm always happy for this comic (or any of garrity's stuff, for that matter) getting reposted (especially since she's on maternity break and hasn't been posting new Skin Horse strips). But (and I know some of y'all know this), it's old. (well, in internet years.)

Which does kind of make a point of its own, I guess....
posted by lodurr at 10:46 AM on September 13, 2014 [1 favorite]


"I am here in the bushes outside Anita Sarkeesian's house, and can confirm that there's no one here. She's making this all up!"

a tumbleweed drifts by...
posted by homunculus at 12:38 PM on September 13, 2014 [2 favorites]


Speaking of women in gaming: Incredible game called Tampon Run designed by teenage girls at camp
posted by homunculus at 1:28 PM on September 13, 2014


I feel like probably at this point if you are a guy who is shocked that this utterly commonplace behavior towards women is factually a constant thing we deal with, then maybe you should consider not crossing the street without someone holding your hand, or operating heavy machinery without supervision. Your most basic observational skills with which you perceive the world around you have failed to an astonishing degree.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:55 PM on September 13, 2014 [8 favorites]


I feel that most men don't actually realize the scope of it, as it tends to be mostly hidden from them. For many of my younger years, I assumed that misogyny was mostly no longer a problem in our society. The pivotal moment for me came when I read all the terrible anecdotes in the Schrödinger’s Rapist thread, which just went on... and on... and on. It shocked me because it made me realize that I was living in a much brighter and safer world than most of my female friends and relatives.

There's zero excuse for the kind of behavior that gamersgate is eliciting. I wish it was possible to force-feed all these angry "gamers" a thread like that one, or the podcast linked to above, so that at least they understood what kind of pain they were causing.
posted by archagon at 5:13 PM on September 13, 2014 [8 favorites]


Re Christina Hoff Sommers
posted by Lexica at 7:33 PM on September 13, 2014




Markus Persson blogs about leaving: "It’s not about the money. It’s about my sanity."

via @rich_lem's tweet.

Linked in the blog post is a YouTube video called "This is Phil Fish" ("Phil is subculturally important...")
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 11:26 AM on September 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


[Sorry that comment probably belonged in the other thread. :( ]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 11:29 AM on September 15, 2014


Anita's police reports have been verified, btw. I feel like a dick for having doubted her.
posted by Biblio at 11:39 AM on September 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


Anita's police reports have been verified, btw. I feel like a dick for having doubted her.

Why did you? Doubt her story, I mean.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:28 PM on September 15, 2014


Nevermind, I see from your comments above that your son was exposing you to 4chan claims.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:31 PM on September 15, 2014


I feel like a dick for having doubted her.

The next time you hear of a similar incident to this one - for surely you shall - remember how you feel right now before you question whether it "really happened".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:47 PM on September 15, 2014 [13 favorites]




Wikileaks goes full stupid.
posted by kmz at 10:52 PM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


Wikileaks goes full stupid.

Oh, for fuck's sake.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:55 PM on September 15, 2014


I don't even understand what Wikileaks is trying to say. I mean, even if their misogynistic mad ramblings were in any way based in facts, which they aren't, how would sleeping with a journalist (which didn't happen) for a good review or cheating on a boyfriend (which probably didn't happen, but wouldn't matter if it did) mirror international corruption and cronyism? I'm confused and angry.
posted by NoraReed at 11:31 PM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]


I don't even understand what Wikileaks is trying to say.

I think it's "Please, please, please for the love of god pay attention to us".
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:49 PM on September 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


I don't even understand what Wikileaks is trying to say.

Is Wikileaks still managed by Mr. "Penetrating sleeping women without condoms or permission is all-OK" "Swedish justice is full of feminazis" Assange?
posted by sukeban at 1:38 AM on September 16, 2014 [2 favorites]


Badass Digest: Total Badass Anita Sarkeesian Reveals Her Radical Plan For Women Online. (Her talk at XOXO Fest - which some of our MetaFilter mods attended!)
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 8:12 AM on September 16, 2014 [2 favorites]


(Holy crackers - she had to have a security guard.)
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 8:13 AM on September 16, 2014


Zoe Quinn on Cracked: 5 Things I Learned as the Internet's Most Hated Person
posted by postcommunism at 9:34 AM on September 16, 2014 [5 favorites]


Another vlogger, Liana K (never heard of her before this, so can't comment much) has posted this response called a challenge
posted by Strass at 9:41 AM on September 16, 2014


Is there anything new in there? YouTube is full of people who seem to think Anita Sarkeesian needs their advice...
posted by running order squabble fest at 10:09 AM on September 16, 2014


Yeah, it'd be nice to know what her point is up front, because just how it opened I was feeling a bit uneasy about where it was heading, and I decided I didn't have it in me to watch 13 minutes of it. I made the mistake of scrolling down to the comments, and the people applauding her gave me no reason to believe I was mistaken in my action.

(Top comment was basically "Anita is wrong about believing women because LIES", followed pretty closely by "Anita only believes in listening to women, and says men should never be listened to!!!!").
posted by tocts at 10:16 AM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]


postcommunism: 5 Things I Learned as the Internet's Most Hated Person

I like their editor's note:

If you found this article from another message board and are about to leave a comment that boils down to, "I don't condone the harassment, but let me explain why she deserved it!" please just take a deep breath, step away from your computer, and call your mother. Tell her you love her. Call a friend and ask if they need anything. Go outside, gaze up into the sky, take a deep breath, and really appreciate the fact that you're alive and that you should make the most of it. Thank you.
posted by Strass at 10:21 AM on September 16, 2014 [12 favorites]


Wow, Zoe's article was great.
posted by Corinth at 11:37 AM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]


Liana K (never heard of her before this, so can't comment much)

Liana K was the co-host and head writer of a cult Canadian geek-chat show/talk-show spoof called Ed the Sock; she's also a big name in the cosplay and comicon circuit
posted by kewb at 1:20 PM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]


Unrelated, but the Wikipedia :talk page for gamergate is going to be the cause of the Internet becoming sentient and going Skynet on us.
posted by running order squabble fest at 1:36 PM on September 16, 2014 [3 favorites]


Jeez, that's like a rancid stew of two of my least favorite groups of rules-lawyering bigots.
posted by Corinth at 1:49 PM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]


One of the 4chan screen grabs had deleting that page as one of it's bulletpointed goals, so Wikipedia must be doing something right. Sockpuppeting conspiracy theorists are also a group they are pretty good at rejecting from the process too.
posted by Artw at 1:57 PM on September 16, 2014


Apparently 4chan is banning #gamergate talk on /v/ now. That is something I didn't expect.
posted by ymgve at 5:20 PM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]


I like their editor's note:

If you found this article from another message board and are about to leave a comment that boils down to, "I don't condone the harassment, but let me explain why she deserved it!" please just take a deep breath, step away from your computer, and call your mother. Tell her you love her. Call a friend and ask if they need anything. Go outside, gaze up into the sky, take a deep breath, and really appreciate the fact that you're alive and that you should make the most of it. Thank you
.

That is good, but why enable comments at all?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:50 PM on September 16, 2014


I was wondering that too, given the shit going on in them, but probably just because Cracked.
posted by Corinth at 8:09 PM on September 16, 2014


I saw someone, I forget who, expressing hope that Cracked would just let everyone spew hate over there and then nuke all their hard hate-work from orbit
posted by NoraReed at 8:47 PM on September 16, 2014 [2 favorites]


Oh, that would be glorious.
posted by Artw at 9:05 PM on September 16, 2014


Oh, that would be glorious.

With a pithy statement like "Hey, you assholes - all that work you did vomiting bile all over everything because you hate women? It's gone now. Poof! Like magic. Like it was never there at all. Welcome to the internet. You're not entitled to be dicks in our space."
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:33 PM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]






And PBS NewsHour just wrote about this.
posted by Corinth at 6:49 PM on September 17, 2014


I maybe be particularly cranky right now, but that PBS article struck me as a mealymouthed exercise in "objective reporting means reporting what each side is saying (don't expect us to actually challenge what anybody has said, we're happy to accept it on face value)". Bah.
A 29-year-old male gamer, who requested anonymity for fear of retaliation by the gaming community, said that the incidents stemmed from legitimate concerns over ethical journalism about gaming and not from the rejection of women from gaming.

“The majority of us are certainly against hateful behaviors,” he said. “I don’t think anybody wants to see anyone else’s lives ruined.” He referred to Quinn as a “catalyst” for a larger conversation among gamers about unbiased game journalism. However, when this reporter looked into the chronology of events and the veracity of claims being made by both sides, it became clear that Zoe Quinn was the victim of harassment by a former romantic partner and the claims of collusion and unethical reporting are groundless.
FTFThem.
posted by Lexica at 7:38 PM on September 17, 2014 [2 favorites]


That's how I read it too. Also, it's weird reading hateful comments beneath PBS content!
posted by Corinth at 8:09 PM on September 17, 2014


A 29-year-old male gamer, who requested anonymity for fear of retaliation by the gaming community, said that the incidents stemmed from legitimate concerns over ethical journalism about gaming and not from the rejection of women from gaming.

“The majority of us are certainly against hateful behaviors,” he said. “I don’t think anybody wants to see anyone else’s lives ruined.”


Um.
posted by kagredon at 8:12 PM on September 17, 2014 [3 favorites]


actual lol irl
posted by poffin boffin at 8:21 PM on September 17, 2014


inb4 "Anita called the threat in on herself!!"

actually there is no way I'm inb4 that
posted by postcommunism at 8:46 PM on September 17, 2014


that PBS article struck me as a mealymouthed exercise

Take a look at the article again and I think you'll feel better about it. The easily frightened 29 yr old is followed immediately by someone who contradicts the BS about journalism ethics, and is willing to give his name and go on the record.

I think it's about as close as the NewsHour writer could get to saying "gamergate are a bunch of abusive idiots" while still adhering to objectivity standards.
posted by honestcoyote at 5:34 AM on September 18, 2014


Here's a /pol/ run livechat which is currently running, where Adam Baldwin just finished speaking (it was kinda gross). A Kotaku livestream will be starting at 3:30pm EST.
posted by Strass at 11:52 AM on September 18, 2014


Strass: "Here's a /pol/ run livechat which is currently running, where Adam Baldwin just finished speaking (it was kinda gross). A Kotaku livestream will be starting at 3:30pm EST."

OK I was hoping that these would be debates, but they're not. You can safely ignore them... I've turned both off.
posted by Strass at 1:01 PM on September 18, 2014


yeah, "kinda gross" is the best case for /pol/, generally.
posted by kagredon at 2:11 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]


I think the "Kotaku livestream" is a "KotakuInAction livestream". As in one of the gross subreddits running this nonsense.
posted by dumbland at 4:50 PM on September 18, 2014


It seems like Gamergate is kind of a self-perpetuating media node at this point. In a sense, it's a terrific example of the democratization of media - using low-cost hardware and free services like YouTube and Twitch, members can just keep interviewing each other...
posted by running order squabble fest at 2:56 AM on September 19, 2014


I love The Escapist's take on the "Gamergate" issue.
posted by JHarris at 3:16 AM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]


That was brundlefly's take first, and if you laugh along with brundlefly you don't have to laugh along with a website taking gamergaters seriously!
posted by Corinth at 12:00 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]


I hadn't heard of Escapist taking it seriously, in fact the link I supplied seems to indicate the opposite. And I think Wikipedia might have beaten everyone; it was the first hit on "Gamergate." That meaning comes from the origins of the term gammer, I believe, which is used in the same sense that Sam uses the term gaffer. So, does that make the Scouring of the Shire Gaffergate?

I searched for Gamergate on Google because, honestly, I've not been following the it, seeing it (apparently, rightly) as a stormy kettle. I had already been against the idea of "gamer," to mean video game player, since it needlessly excludes whole categories of game playing, even video game playing. A Warhammer player has as much claim to it as someone playing Destiny, as does someone playing Power Grid, or Pac-Man for that matter.

But also... if you're calling yourself a "gamer," it seems that you're laying claim to it as a kind of lifestyle choice. But it's not, at best it's a hobby, if you're basing your identity on it, well, it seems kind of sad, basing your image of yourself on empty entertainment. Kind of like the kind of person who'd play FF7, tear up uncontrollably then post a web shrine with a picture of a basket of flowers and NEVER FORGET. Just too invested.
posted by JHarris at 1:01 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]


My son apologized to me. So incremental progress is made.
posted by Biblio at 2:32 PM on September 19, 2014 [10 favorites]






Sarkeesian's speech from the XOXO Festival (mentioned upthread).
posted by zombieflanders at 4:07 AM on October 8, 2014 [1 favorite]


Kathy Sierra (previously) has left Twitter, and on her way out she wrote a heck of a post about online harassment of women that seems germane to the discussion here. It's a good breakdown of some of the systemic patterns common to most of these sorts of coordinated online hate-fests against Zoe, Anita, et al.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:50 AM on October 8, 2014 [7 favorites]


Pointer: FPP about it now posted to the blue - er, the white.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2014


Blue! Dark mode uber alles!
posted by rmd1023 at 7:06 AM on October 8, 2014 [4 favorites]


Kathy Sierra (previously) has left Twitter
I can't even begin to say how angry I've been since realizing she was forced out again.

God.

So. Angry.
posted by verb at 8:32 AM on October 8, 2014 [2 favorites]


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