And I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!
September 4, 2017 10:57 AM   Subscribe

On Sunday, reports leaked of President Trump's plan to end DACA for hundreds of thousands of immigrants, with likely a six-month phase-in of the enforcement. Rebuking North Korea for their latest nuclear test, he also criticized South Korea for "appeasement" and on trade, and suggested he would cease trade with any country that continued to trade with the DPRK. Meanwhile, the Justice Department just admitted in court that Trump's much-disputed accusation that "Obama wiretapped Trump tower" was indeed false.
posted by darkstar (2605 comments total) 127 users marked this as a favorite
 
Thank you, thank you, once again, Darkstar.
posted by greermahoney at 11:05 AM on September 4 [27 favorites]


Welcome to the new thread. Same as the old thread.

Thanks darkstar. These threads are the only place where I can find people who share my anguish over the current state of the US government.
posted by bardophile at 11:05 AM on September 4 [42 favorites]


Splendid (and all too scarily apt) thread title, darkstar.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:06 AM on September 4 [10 favorites]




odds that Trump wants to shut down DACA because he thinks its somehow related to ACA: not as low as you might expect
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:17 AM on September 4 [74 favorites]




He is really outdoing himself in the trying-to-fuck-up-everything-at-once department.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:18 AM on September 4 [4 favorites]




I have clicked 'add to activity' far too many times on threads to do with this git.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 11:28 AM on September 4 [23 favorites]


There are several states, including Texas, threatening to sue Trump to end DACA, so remember this isn't just the Donald, it's Republicans. They want to take children who were born here, went to school here, likely speak only English, who are American in every way, and shuttle them out to Mexico just to spite their face.
posted by xammerboy at 11:32 AM on September 4 [129 favorites]


They want to take children who were born here, went to school here, likely speak only English, who are American in every way, and shuttle them out to Mexico just to spite their face reduce the number of future democrats.
posted by hopeless romantique at 11:35 AM on September 4 [109 favorites]


Someone really needs to point out the irony to Texans asking for money for those who just lost their homes, family, and money to Harvey. They want to do the same thing thousands of children across the U.S.
posted by xammerboy at 11:35 AM on September 4 [37 favorites]


One of the worst things about our system of government, aside from relying on norms and trust, two things Republicans are incapable of even understanding, is that the majority of what are considered "regular citizens" rarely are affected by detrimental changes in the law immediately, whereas stuff that's "candy" is almost always immediate. (By the way, I think everyone is a regular citizen, I'm thinking here in terms of what our media portrays as "normal", you know, white, with some money, etc.)

For example, tax refunds are paid right away, while something like getting rid of people's health care is always enacted in such a way that it starts happening in earnest an election or two down the road. People aren't bright enough to understand that the reason their park closed or their grandma got kicked out of her retirement home is because the asshole they voted for ten years ago passed a law saying "fuck grandma"...they see who is in the white house and associate them with it.

It's a huge problem, one which makes it a lot easier for Republicans to get elected, despite their demonstrated inability to, you know, govern. Republicans are wreckers and Democrats rebuilders, while leaves precious little time for progress.
posted by maxwelton at 11:36 AM on September 4 [97 favorites]


He got into a "no, we'll nuke you harder!" argument with North Korea.
He needed a massive racist hatemonger rally that killed a woman and left others severely beaten to pull out of that narrative--and by "pull out," I mean it gave him another pit to dig.
Then the attention on that only shifted away because, with a catastrophic hurricane on the way, he pardoned a murderous bigoted sheriff from a slap on the wrist contempt of court charge and banned people from enlisting because of gender. Just gender.
And then the hurricane hit and it's astoundingly bad... and he found ways to be shitty about that, too.
And then North Korea made its nuke test, so he's like, "Fuck it, let's kick almost a million kids out of the country and shatter their dreams, 'cause why not?"

All that in less than a month.

There is no rock bottom here. None.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:39 AM on September 4 [122 favorites]


They want to take children who were born here,

Can I get a clarification? My understanding was that DACA covered children brought here under the age of 16. Does that really include those in the womb and born here? I thought children born in the US were citizens regardless of parentage, so DACA wouldn't apply.
posted by greermahoney at 11:39 AM on September 4 [28 favorites]


...Add to activity, you say? I wish I had known about that a Trillion Trump Years ago : /
posted by thebrokedown at 11:39 AM on September 4 [6 favorites]


Greermahoney, you are right. It applies to people younger than 15 when they were brought to the States, but not those born here. About a million people.
posted by xammerboy at 11:43 AM on September 4 [11 favorites]


> "Can I get a clarification? My understanding was that DACA covered children brought here under the age of 16."

The DACA status applies to those who were under 16 when they were brought over, but they don't stay 16 forever. Quite a few people covered under DACA now have kids of their own, kids who are natural-born citizens, kids who now have to fear that a parent who often doesn't even remember their birth country will be ripped away from them and sent back.
posted by mystyk at 11:44 AM on September 4 [54 favorites]


I wonder if this will boomerang on Trump like his healthcare plans did. I can imagine the videos of crying kids getting handcuffed and hauled away for nothing won't play out well.
posted by xammerboy at 11:46 AM on September 4 [7 favorites]


Anyone born in the USA is a citizen and would have no direct need of the Dream Act.

I can't state how angry this repeal makes me. If he goes through with it, I hope the people with an audience will describe it as ethnic cleansing. This is an atrocity. Almost a million people who will be uprooted and exiled for no crime of their own.
posted by Teegeeack AV Club Secretary at 11:46 AM on September 4 [39 favorites]


Vox has a good explainer on DACA.
posted by xammerboy at 11:47 AM on September 4 [11 favorites]


Harvard Political Review has a nice piece on politics here in the largest congressional district that isn't a state.
Since 1990, the district has switched hands three times, with both parties obtaining solid margins when elected. The politically-turbulent area mirrors the nation as a whole: just like the United States, the 2016 election caused the established political structure to implode. However, while national media focuses on insurgent candidates, there is another, more compelling force at work: an insurgent political revolution is changing the way politics is organized structurally.
...
As [the spokesperson] told the HPR, the founding members [of D3 Indivisible] were shocked when they held their first public meeting—in a town of 900 people, over 100 crammed into downtown Ridgway’s historic Sherbino Theatre. The group’s momentum has not slowed, and organizers were impressed by the level of talent that exists in their small community.
The times they are a changin - can we turn Colorado into a C of Blue ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:48 AM on September 4 [7 favorites]


The ACA-DACA connection was so that Obama could negotiate a deal with Australia about AC/DC.
posted by jonp72 at 11:49 AM on September 4 [16 favorites]


Someone really needs to point out the irony to Texans asking for money for those who just lost their homes, family, and money to Harvey. They want to do the same thing thousands of children across the U.S.

I've said it before, that makes perfect sense in their world. Assume as given:
1) It's a zero-sum game; what they get, WE can't get
2) There isn't enough for everyone
3) There is such a thing as a "real american"

It all follows from that. To the extent Texans can't get help, it's BECAUSE too much is being given to the undeserving. Classic divisive "fight over the scraps" mentality.
posted by ctmf at 11:51 AM on September 4 [33 favorites]


I have clicked 'add to activity' far too many times on threads to do with this git.

I'm adding you guys to activity. Who needs Trump?
posted by Namlit at 11:51 AM on September 4 [6 favorites]


>They want to take children who were born here,

Can I get a clarification? My understanding was that DACA covered children brought here under the age of 16.


Yes, as a few people have already noted, DACA covers people who were born outside of the country and entered the country before turning sixteen.

However, it's also true that some non-zero number of people who advocate against DACA also object to the citizenship provisions of the 14th amendment and want to see, yes, children born in the United States deported, if their parents were not themselves citizens (or here on a visa, etc). See, for example, recent legislative and judicial efforts in the last decade to undo the precedent set by the Wong Kim Ark case and/or to argue for a different interpretation of the 14th Amendment that would allow the deportation of such children.

The push to overturn DACA is part of a broader discussion about the nature of immigration to America, and many of the people who want it overturned don't want to stop there. See, even more recently, the RAISE Act, which its proponents argue is about immigration reform...and its opponents (rightly) point out would 'reform' immigration by drastically and severely curtailing immigration. It's an act that purports to be about changing immigration criteria, but it's really using that as a stalking horse to cut immigration levels wholesale.
posted by cjelli at 11:54 AM on September 4 [30 favorites]


Sorry if this is repeat. What if a DACA parent of a minor does get deported? They would deport the children with them, even though the kids are currently citizens?? That doesn't seem legal. The other option would seem to be that kids go into foster care? That seems like a huge expense to our government. Possibly a greater expense than letting the parents stay.
(I did read the Vox article, thanks.)
posted by greermahoney at 11:57 AM on September 4 [12 favorites]


I wonder if this will boomerang on Trump like his healthcare plans did. I can imagine the videos of crying kids getting handcuffed and hauled away for nothing won't play out well.

Counterpoints: the beating of Deandre Harris was recorded on video for everyone to see. We can't make out Heather Heyer in the crowd, but her murder is also on video.

Trump failed to seriously condemn these incidents. Plenty of people out there saw a barely-veiled free pass on the whole matter.

Do not, do not, do not ever underestimate people's capacity for bigotry and indifference. And do not underestimate the right wing's ability to sweep dirt under the rug when their followers are used to never looking there. Fox News isn't going to show video of crying children in handcuffs being deported.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:57 AM on September 4 [54 favorites]


Mefite Anguish Grows Accordingly

I agree with the sentiment. But I think we should really point out how the people "governing" our country are wicked, corrupt, cruel, spiteful, deceitful, and just plain old evil. I feel like we're really giving these moral monsters a pass by saying that they are stupid. It's almost an excuse. "Why did they do those terrible things?" "Oh, they're just too stupid to know any better." They are stupid. But they are also much, much worse than stupid. They are villains.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 11:57 AM on September 4 [34 favorites]


I saw an interview with a DACA recipient who was in HS, so most likely under 18. I'm not sure of the legal status of her parents, but she has younger siblings that were born here. There are many families like hers. What does our Solomonian president think should happen to them? Send a minor to Mexico by herself? Leave the other minor siblings here while her parents go back with her? Split up the parents, assuming one isn't a citizen?

And are a handful of countries willing and prepared to accept a million people who have spent zero to little time in that country? Another kid interviewed came here from Mexico as an infant and has never been back. I don't even think he spoke Spanish.

I know there are no acceptable ways to justify this, but just logistically, how does anyone who supports this think it could possibly happen??
posted by Room 641-A at 11:58 AM on September 4 [15 favorites]


Carrying this over from previous thread...

Two stories about the Dem's need to drop the bullshit and fight back.

I have a conversation with a writer friend in the late 80's. We talk about how the Republican could maintain control over Presidency and houses. He mentions that the Republicans have a national grass roots fundraising network. If a pro-life supporter in California finds out about a pro-life congressman from Alabama needs money for the campaign, she immediately cuts him a check to support him. My friend doesn't need to convince me as I saw my mother constantly do this religiously as I was growing up. (She being the president of the county "Birthright", and influenced by Phyllis Schlafly, Human Events (the go-to to find congressmen and senators in trouble)and National Review. She and the members of her group supports "pro-life candidates" throughout the country. My friend believed that for Democrats this network was non-existent and donations were kept local

I believe that political beliefs, ideologies and responses remain generational. So there have been different variations of the same response, at minimum, since WW2 (If I use my mother and family as a barometer)

The second story may be apocryphal. A woman told me a story once about a male Texan being brought to trial for shooting and killing a man. He was prosecuted and the jury found him guilty. The judge Then let him off. When the local paper afterwards asked him why he did this the judge responded, "because the guy needed shooting"

Now, "on the surface" this may be an "Eastwood" way of solving the problem. What I heard in the context of the larger story was that sometimes you've got to punch the mother f*cker the face, without shame, take the risk and show some authority.
posted by goalyeehah at 12:00 PM on September 4 [8 favorites]


Remember: when 2018 rolls around and it comes time to vote in Democrats who might actually impeach him, search Metafilter for Potus45 to get all the debate fuel you need.
posted by JHarris at 12:00 PM on September 4 [17 favorites]


I can imagine the videos of crying kids getting handcuffed and hauled away for nothing won't play out well.

No, because givens 1-3 above act to assuage guilt in that case. They can be heartbroken and whatnot but still fall back on, "well, it's a tough situation, but you have to draw the line somewhere." Plus blame the victims ("they chose to come here illegally")
posted by ctmf at 12:05 PM on September 4 [9 favorites]


I think we should really point out how the people "governing" our country are wicked, corrupt, cruel, spiteful, deceitful, and just plain old evil.

Murder Americans? Go Ahead
posted by flabdablet at 12:06 PM on September 4


(Tehhund just liked a comment of mine from July. Tehhund is still with us, y'all, yay!)

Totally random observation that I'm sure will fuel someone's thesis soon: I'm back in the depressing world of online dating for the first time since Sept 2016... and it's fascinating how many profiles now explicitly call out #45 as a deal-breaker in a relationship. I mean, obviously I'm searching for like-minded people, but a year ago it would have been framed as "you have liberal/progressive values" and now it's literally stuff like, "if you voted for Trump or are even Republican do not message me."
posted by TwoStride at 12:10 PM on September 4 [174 favorites]


Monsters Are Governing America
posted by MrVisible at 12:10 PM on September 4 [60 favorites]


Someone really needs to point out the irony to Texans asking for money for those who just lost their homes, family, and money to Harvey. They want to do the same thing thousands of children across the U.S.

Just want to clarify that Texas is currently being run by extreme tea party ideologues who are very unpopular in almost every major city in the state. Those hit by the storm were mostly in Houston, a city that went about 60% for Clinton (and is also a minority white city with TONS of immigrants from all over.)

Moreover, there's a strong class of business people who support immigrants because they understand our entire economy is based on them. I keep waiting for the hard right people in power in this state to butt heads with the business class...

So in short, especially at this time, please be specific if you mean Texas GOP politicians rather than "Texans."
posted by threeturtles at 12:10 PM on September 4 [74 favorites]


No one is coming to save us.

We have to save each other.
posted by The Whelk at 12:12 PM on September 4 [110 favorites]


What if a DACA parent of a minor does get deported?

The parent is the only one who gets deported, but most parents aren't going to leave their kid to the foster system because they get to stay in America. This, I would argue, for many, is a feature, not a bug, because they are removing citizens who could vote along with non citizens who could not.
posted by corb at 12:14 PM on September 4 [33 favorites]


King Kong's too old to save us this time.
posted by darkstar at 12:14 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


"if you voted for Trump or are even Republican do not message me."

Good. Starve 'em out. Loving Trump will not get you laid, not by anyone good.
posted by witchen at 12:14 PM on September 4 [30 favorites]


As I am fond of noting, even in deepest scarlet Oklahoma there were 420k people who voted for Hillary Clinton. At some point we will have them airlifted out if it becomes necessary.
posted by delfin at 12:15 PM on September 4 [32 favorites]


Middle-class white Americans think that middle-class white children are not responsible for their own decisions and need to be protected--and all other children, it is totally just and acceptable to treat them differently because they aren't really human, they're just the property of adults and it's acceptable to use that property to keep those adults in line. This is exactly why you get people who also don't believe in things like SNAP benefits increasing depending on how many children are in the household, because they don't see those programs as being about feeding kids, they see it as somehow "rewarding" parents for having more children. To those people, it genuinely doesn't matter that we're talking about people who were brought here as kids, and it doesn't matter if the children of those people are going to be hurt by this. If you don't have enough empathy to care about the kids, then the whole thing is about whether you are "rewarding" or "punishing" the first generation of undocumented arrivals for their choices. I mean, we're talking about exactly the same people in many cases who don't think schools should have free lunch programs. You can't appeal to their empathy for nonwhite children because they don't have any.
posted by Sequence at 12:16 PM on September 4 [82 favorites]


I saw an interview with a DACA recipient who was in HS, so most likely under 18. I'm not sure of the legal status of her parents, but she has younger siblings that were born here. There are many families like hers. What does our Solomonian president think should happen to them? Send a minor to Mexico by herself? Leave the other minor siblings here while her parents go back with her? Split up the parents, assuming one isn't a citizen?

And are a handful of countries willing and prepared to accept a million people who have spent zero to little time in that country? Another kid interviewed came here from Mexico as an infant and has never been back. I don't even think he spoke Spanish.

I know there are no acceptable ways to justify this, but just logistically, how does anyone who supports this think it could possibly happen??


So, from what I've been reading, this splitting up of families has already been going on. Yes, sometimes children are left behind in the US with either the primary or sole breadwinner parent deported, or with both of their parents deported. Mostly ICE seems to assume that other relatives in the US will take care of the kids in these cases, but sometimes the kids end up in the foster system. Sometimes children are deported and just sort of dropped off across the border in Mexico (eg. in the case of unaccompanied minors caught entering the US illegally). It's a pretty big human rights problem, all around.
posted by eviemath at 12:16 PM on September 4 [31 favorites]


Threeturtles: Just want to clarify that Texas is currently being run by extreme tea party ideologues who are very unpopular in almost every major city in the state. Those hit by the storm were mostly in Houston, a city that went about 60% for Clinton (and is also a minority white city with TONS of immigrants from all over.)

Delfin: As I am fond of noting, even in deepest scarlet Oklahoma there were 420k people who voted for Hillary Clinton.

And this is why Democrats must not give up on "flyover country" or "red states." There are Democrats everywhere. It's also why getting out the vote and participating in local and state elections is so important.

Republicans would not need to gerrymander and suppress voters if they were confident that the majority of the people supported them.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:21 PM on September 4 [46 favorites]


"My struggle"...
posted by growabrain at 12:24 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


Good. Starve 'em out. Loving Trump will not get you laid, not by anyone good.

I'm gonna go on Tinder with a picture of me wearing a Hillary 2016 shirt. Will report results.
posted by Justinian at 12:25 PM on September 4 [90 favorites]


*Awaits update on the Justinian Current Swiping Level*
posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on September 4 [113 favorites]


If anything, Democrats should move en masse TO red states to turn them blue and rescue the hostages. Start with the rural counties with disproportionate representation. Careful not to let the blue states go red while we're gone.

Sigh. Wish it were that easy.
posted by ctmf at 12:30 PM on September 4 [21 favorites]


EPA releases lengthy statement/rant attacking AP journalist who reported on flooding at 7 of the 41 Houston Superfund sites.

EPA statement falsely accuses him of reporting "from the comforts of Washington" when the reporter had personally visited each site.

Reporter noted an Obama-era study that showed flooding at the sites could release toxic chemicals into the groundwater, which seems to be what set off the EPA / Pruitt. Not sure I've ever seen the EPA ever go after a reporter like this for reporting basic facts.
posted by darkstar at 12:30 PM on September 4 [145 favorites]


"My struggle"...
He's never really struggled at anything in his life; a more appropriate title would be "Mein Komfort Level".
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:31 PM on September 4 [38 favorites]


I'm gonna go on Tinder with a picture of me wearing a Hillary 2016 shirt.

I wonder if that's an angle campaigns have actually thought of. Hot models on all the sites saying Republicans are gross and unfuckable per se.
posted by ctmf at 12:33 PM on September 4 [27 favorites]


If anything, Democrats should move en masse TO red states to turn them blue and rescue the hostages. Start with the rural counties with disproportionate representation. Careful not to let the blue states go red while we're gone.


It would be interesting to mathematically model the intersection of possible retirement destinations for urban boomers and the closeness of political tipping points achievable by x numbers moving here or there specifically, and then lay that out against cost of living figures, retirement amenities in these areas, etc.
posted by spitbull at 12:38 PM on September 4 [18 favorites]


One of the worst things about our system of government, aside from relying on norms and trust,

Ach, sorry, but I have to say this: all systems do rely on norms and trust, not just ours; it's not possible to have that kind of epistemic closure in real life, period. But in America the norms and trust have been deliberately interfered with and broken with help from hostile foreign intelligence services, mobsters, and corrupt foreign and domestic oligarchs.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:38 PM on September 4 [15 favorites]


Hot models on all the sites saying Republicans are gross and unfuckable per se.

That would be an error, just like "basket of deplorables" was.
posted by Coventry at 12:40 PM on September 4 [7 favorites]


Now I'm trying to come up with a business model for "Retire2Vote4Change.org."
posted by spitbull at 12:41 PM on September 4 [11 favorites]


I wonder if that's an angle campaigns have actually thought of. Hot models on all the sites saying Republicans are gross and unfuckable per se.

The Summer of Love exhibit at the De Young had the iconic Girls Say Yes To Boys Who Say No poster on display.

I would be all for a less sexist way of putting that across - "Nazis are Undateable," "Fascist Means Forever Celibate," "Don't Get Your Cheeto Dust On Me! Democrats Only!" - I'm not a copywriter, alas.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:43 PM on September 4 [21 favorites]


They already know they're unfuckable. See /r/redpill.
posted by spitbull at 12:44 PM on September 4 [97 favorites]


If anything, Democrats should move en masse TO red states to turn them blue and rescue the hostages.

I'm in a very very blue area of California, and I've been seriously considering moving to Nevada.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:45 PM on September 4 [9 favorites]


"Lonely? I did not Nazi that coming."
posted by chris24 at 12:45 PM on September 4 [30 favorites]


Billy Joel could write a new verse for "We Didn't Start The Fire" every week with this administration if he wanted to.
posted by azpenguin at 12:46 PM on September 4 [36 favorites]


See /r/redpill.

Red Genocide!
posted by ctmf at 12:47 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]


It would be interesting to mathematically model the intersection of possible retirement destinations for urban boomers and the closeness of political tipping points achievable by x numbers moving here or there specifically, and then lay that out against cost of living figures, retirement amenities in these areas, etc.

Maybe pitch this to FiveThirtyEight? Most of the work involved would be tracking down the relevant data.
posted by eviemath at 12:59 PM on September 4 [17 favorites]


EPA statement falsely accuses him of reporting "from the comforts of Washington" when the reporter had personally visited each site.
Pruitt is apparently competing with Neil Gorsuch's mother for "Worst EPA Administrator of all Time."
posted by xyzzy at 1:01 PM on September 4 [11 favorites]


The times they are a changin - can we turn Colorado into a C of Blue ?

You might even say

*removes sunglasses*

It's a C change.

Hot models on all the sites saying Republicans are gross and unfuckable per se

Great, so there will just be more of those people swiping on the rest of us.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:25 PM on September 4


I'm in a very very blue area of California, and I've been seriously considering moving to Nevada.

Very blue Californian, have a job I can do from anywhere, thinking of taking one for the team and moving to Arizona. This breaks my heart. I love it here.
posted by greermahoney at 1:49 PM on September 4 [11 favorites]


Okay, I'll go the full Godwin on this post.... Hitler knew he was losing the war, but diverted resources towards ripping the country up, and causing more chaos, over trying not to lose.

That is why we need to remove Trump, sooner rather than later. He doesn't share our values, and actively wants to tear them down.
posted by MikeWarot at 1:53 PM on September 4 [37 favorites]


We need a graphic that can be easily drawn or spray painted. This graphic symbol to express a desire for the current tyrant to be not in a position of power.
posted by JohnR at 1:54 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


WRT Godwin: I think it's fine to mention nazis if you're actually and purposely talking about nazis.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:57 PM on September 4 [26 favorites]


Republicans are gross and unfuckable

Finally, a political ad that tells the truth!
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 2:01 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


WRT Godwin: I think it's fine to mention nazis if you're actually and purposely talking about nazis.

I think it is the one law this administration has successfully Repealed And Replaced.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:04 PM on September 4 [44 favorites]


WRT Godwin: I think it's fine to mention nazis if you're actually and purposely talking about nazis.

From the man himself: By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.
posted by MrVisible at 2:06 PM on September 4 [80 favorites]


The reverse Godwin strikes again.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:30 PM on September 4


There is apparently a planned SAVE DACA shut down midtown rally from 10-10 at Trump Tower tomorrow (Tuesday)
posted by The Whelk at 2:34 PM on September 4 [16 favorites]


I highly recommend reading through that entire Godwining thread. It devolves into an argument about how GIF is pronounced, then @davidorlo posted this gem: "I have a classicist friend who insists on pronouncing, in English, "Pi" the correct, Greek way, e.g., like something Trump likes in private." I literally lolled.
posted by SakuraK at 2:34 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]


Please keep in mind that Godwin himself has given his nihil obstat to calling the fuckwits in question nazis.
posted by signal at 2:36 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


Yes, I recall reading that somewhere very recently...
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 2:45 PM on September 4 [19 favorites]


From What Trump and His Team Have Wrecked So Far on BillMoyers.com
If You Still Want More

You can peruse our full “While He Was Tweeting” series but we also recommend some additional places that are keeping a close eye on all the changes afoot. The Washington Post maintains a great graphic explainer of Obama-era rollbacks. For a catalog from abroad try The BBC’s “Trump Tracker” and The Guardian’s excellent compilation of Trump’s effect on the environment. And, The Sunlight Foundation is keeping track of suspected conflicts of interest within the administration.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:46 PM on September 4 [44 favorites]




Helaine Olen - Nation Magazine via BillMoyers.com: The Rollback of Pro-Worker Policies Since Trump Took Office Is Staggering
A few months ago, President Donald Trump devoted his weekly address to the beleaguered American employee. “For too long, American workers were forgotten by their government — and I mean totally forgotten,” he said. “My administration has offered a new vision. The well-being of the American citizen and worker will be placed second to none.”

No doubt he’ll come up with more pro-worker blather for Labor Day. Don’t listen. The only way Trump is helping the average employee is if you consider The Simpsons’ Mr. Burns a working stiff.

The rollback of labor rights and protections since Trump took office is staggering. It puts worker safety at risk and guarantees that many workers will earn less, but that’s not all. Measures to help victims of discrimination receive redress are on the scrap heap. Unions are running scared. “It’s a death by a thousand cuts,” explains Heidi Shierholz, a senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:52 PM on September 4 [21 favorites]


However, it's also true that some non-zero number of people who advocate against DACA also object to the citizenship provisions of the 14th amendment and want to see, yes, children born in the United States deported

The most prominent person being Trump himself (during the campaign, anyway)
posted by BungaDunga at 2:58 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


A little late to the party, but here's another good backgrounder on DACA, thanks to the Federation of American Scientists, which collects and posts Congressional Research Service reports that are normally confidential and inaccessible to the public for no good reason.

Slightly off-topic note that there are tons of good reports available here, with an emphasis on national security, something else we're all a bit concerned about right now.
posted by martin q blank at 2:58 PM on September 4 [8 favorites]


We need a graphic that can be easily drawn or spray painted. This graphic symbol to express a desire for the current tyrant to be not in a position of power.

OK

posted by acrasis at 2:59 PM on September 4 [4 favorites]


Very blue Californian, have a job I can do from anywhere, thinking of taking one for the team and moving to Arizona. This breaks my heart. I love it here.

Y'all know the difference between moving and establishing/maintaining legal residency, right? Come on over to Michigan* every 2 years just long enough to canvass and vote. The fall color is lovely!

*Certain tippable parts of Michigan, that is.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:59 PM on September 4 [8 favorites]


Y'all know the difference between moving and establishing/maintaining legal residency, right?

Er...no. But I'm gonna look it up right now. THANKS!
posted by greermahoney at 3:03 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


It would be interesting to mathematically model the intersection of possible retirement destinations for urban boomers and the closeness of political tipping points

Or even, how many would have to move from gerrymandered deep blue precincts into pink ones to flip the whole state?
posted by ctmf at 3:04 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]


Ed Pilkington/Guardian: Rightwing alliance plots assault to 'defund and defang' America's unions
Rightwing activists across the US have launched a nationwide campaign to undermine progressive politicians by depriving them of a major source of support and funding – public sector unions. ... The aim is to “defund and defang” unions representing government employees as the first step towards ensuring the permanent collapse of progressive politics.
...
The new assault is being spearheaded by the State Policy Network (SPN), an alliance of 66 state-based thinktanks, or “ideas factories” as it calls them, with a combined annual budget of $80m. As suggested by its slogan – “State solutions. National impact” – the group outlines an aim to construct a rightwing hegemony throughout the US, working from the bottom up.
posted by ZeusHumms at 3:05 PM on September 4 [18 favorites]


Or even, how many would have to move from gerrymandered deep blue precincts into neighboring pink ones to flip the whole state?

That works for people in red states as well. Move from deep red districts where you can do no good to areas that can be tipped blue.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:09 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]



I think we should really point out how the people "governing" our country are wicked, corrupt, cruel, spiteful, deceitful, and just plain old evil.

Murder Americans? Go Ahead


No, please. I am an American and not evil.
posted by Samizdata at 3:13 PM on September 4 [3 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.
posted by The Whelk at 3:17 PM on September 4 [38 favorites]


I wonder what this tone-deaf solipsist may say if his precious Mar-a-Lago gets damage from Irma. I can imagine him trying "I feel your pain" talking to people who may have lost everything and it makes me absolutely nauseated. But I fully expect it should the situation arise. Nothing is too self-centered or puerile to put past him.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:23 PM on September 4 [3 favorites]


Move from deep red districts where you can do no good to areas that can be tipped blue.

If you can't move, register as a Republican and ratfuck the hell out of their primaries. Make it cost incumbents every cent they have, or keep the absolute crazies from gaining another seat. Even if you can't stem the crazy tide, show up at events and ask really uncomfortable questions in order to attenuate their more extreme positions, just to discourage budding brownshirt voters. Then, vote blue in the elections. If you actually have democrats running, though, you still have a fighting chance.

We can't all just move to a safe space. Really, there are no safe spaces - if they keep the statehouses and governments, which gives them national races, eventually they're going to come for the blue strongholds.
posted by eclectist at 3:29 PM on September 4 [20 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

A "better plan" would be "try the same thing and hope it works better this time"?

I mean, I get it's mostly-hypothetical, not a realistic plan. It's not as easy to "just move" as it sounds. There is usually a reason people live where they live. I meant the original thought experiment more as a counter to the people who half-jokingly (or even completely seriously) say "the people in those backward, woman-hating racist places should JUST LEAVE!!" Well, if moving is so easy, it would be more effective (if not more practical) to flood it with people who will fix it.
posted by ctmf at 3:30 PM on September 4 [9 favorites]


Who can sue Trump?

I'm not talking about DACA or other groups he has trashed through shear evil behavior. I'm referring to illegal activity during the election. Note: I'm assuming that there will be enough evidence revealed to make a civil action feasible.
  • Who would have standing?
  • What laws would be applicable?
  • What people and organizations would be the targets of lawsuits?
Could Hillary Clinton and her election committee sue Trump and his election committee? Could the Democratic Party sue the Republican Party? Could the RNC sue Trump in an attempt to distance themselves from him? Could there be a class action lawsuit on the behalf of every person who voted for Clinton in the election?

This relates to the cooperation between Mueller and New York AG Eric Schneiderman over the Manafort investigation. No matter what Trump does with executive pardons, Manafort can be charged in a state court. Civil actions are different then criminal actions, so this might be the only way that Trump and his toadies could be forced to testify and be cross examined.

Obviously civil suits would be about much more then the money. But speaking of economic consequences, Trump's entire fortune could be at risk. Over 65 million people voted for Hillary. Although it is almost impossible to assign a dollar value to a vote, I would assume it has to be more the one dollar. If it was $10 we're taking about $650 million, and it it's $100 it jumps to $6.5 billion. This is somewhat of a far fetched scenario, but there could be so many parties going after Trump he could be swamped in the civil courts.

Is this just a revenge fantasy, or is there some credible legal principle that could apply? Inquiring MeFi minds want to know!
posted by Metacircular at 3:30 PM on September 4 [9 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

Can't we just go back in time and steal Trump's mojo?
posted by Coventry at 3:32 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]


The Republican Party has destroyed the word of the US Government both domestically and international.
posted by srboisvert at 3:32 PM on September 4 [19 favorites]


Ed Pilkington/Guardian: Rightwing alliance plots assault to 'defund and defang' America's unions

See also, Meet the Anti-Union Crusader in Charge of Rolling Back Regulations at Trump’s Labor Department:
Nathan Mehrens became the department’s head of policy in June, leading an office that Sharon Block, who headed it under President Barack Obama, says served as the Labor Department’s think tank. Bloomberg reported last month that Mehrens is also running the department’s regulatory reform office. In that role, he will work with a still-unformed task force to identify regulations that should be eliminated. (The Labor Department did not respond to requests to confirm Mehrens’ role.)

Since getting his law degree from a conservative Christian correspondence school that emphasizes “the centrality of Scripture,” Mehrens has spent his professional life rooting out union corruption. That work appears to have begun with a stint at Stop Union Political Abuse (SUPA), a now-defunct group started by Linda Chavez after unions helped sink her nomination to be President George W. Bush’s secretary of labor. Chavez would go on to write that donating to SUPA would “cripple liberal politics” by helping pass a right-to-work law that makes it harder to form a union. “If we stop now,” she added in the fundraising appeal, “the terrorists win.”
But it's not all bad news on Labor Day, Republicans suddenly seem to like unions again:
Unions are enjoying a popularity surge, with more than 61 percent of adults in the United States saying they now approve of organized labor — a five-point jump from last year, according to a new Gallup poll. That’s the highest approval rating since 2003, when 65 percent of respondents said the same, but it comes as union membership is falling.
...
Forty-two percent of Republicans said they approved of unions, a jump from 2011, when only 26 percent of Republicans showed support.
posted by peeedro at 3:36 PM on September 4 [23 favorites]


If anything, Democrats should move en masse TO red states to turn them blue and rescue the hostages. Start with the rural counties with disproportionate representation.

Fellow MeFi and spouse rc3spencer and I are doing just that in 2018. Moving from bluer-than-blue Baltimore to red Frederick County, Virginia. Doing our part to continue growing the progressive voter base in the state, two votes at a time.

Our new house is just off Jubal Early Drive. Sigh.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 3:44 PM on September 4 [59 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

If Trump doesn't motivate them to vote in 2018 and 2020 I'm not sure anything will do so. What could one possibly say to reach such people?
posted by Justinian at 3:47 PM on September 4 [17 favorites]


Rightwing alliance plots assault to 'defund and defang' America's unions

It's been in progress since 1980, when Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union. And everyone except the rich has lost ground financially since then. Also, the economy has struggled since 95% of the population has less spending money, which -- surprise! -- hurts sales.
posted by msalt at 3:52 PM on September 4 [20 favorites]


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

But even that has to be done strategically and efficiently where it can make a difference. I'm all for the 50 State Strategy, but the last time my particular district went blue for Congress was two years in the 1930s, and the time before that was two years in the 1880s. Not for lack of trying, either. Even the univ faculty are scarily purple. If you energize the disaffected voter here, you get a tea party on the trump train.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:54 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


...political tipping points achievable by x numbers moving here or there ...

Maybe pitch this to FiveThirtyEight?

Turn it into an app and I'm sure he'll get $10M funding in no time. I'm verrit, verrit sure of this.
posted by dhartung at 3:55 PM on September 4 [4 favorites]



If Trump doesn't motivate them to vote in 2018 and 2020 I'm not sure anything will do so. What could one possibly say to reach such people?

In the face of republican intransigence with regards to voting it's important to help people navigate and overcome those obstacles. This was key in the 50s and 60s and is necessary now.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:56 PM on September 4 [12 favorites]


Our new house is just off Jubal Early Drive.

This is a sign that needs to be vandalized
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:01 PM on September 4 [9 favorites]


My proposal was specific to the growing wave of retiring boomers. That's a number that scales, at a point when many middle class Americans do move, often to more red states or red counties in blue states in search of lower costs and warmer weather. It's already changing North Carolina for example. If liberals move in large numbers at retirement from cities to suburbs or north to south, I'm suggesting modeling where one goes based on potential impact as a factor.

I am curious about the math on a per district basis, not sure at what scale it might have an impact. Pure speculation.
posted by spitbull at 4:05 PM on September 4 [7 favorites]


Our new house is just off Jubal Early Drive.

Just recapitulate the name as the character very ably played by Robert Brooks in Firefly's Objects In Space.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:08 PM on September 4 [16 favorites]


Also depressingly the answers are probably suburban districts in Florida and Arizona. Which nope.
posted by spitbull at 4:09 PM on September 4 [3 favorites]




Let me repeat what I've said before: the top priorities for Democratic Party and non-party Liberal/Leftist organizations MUST be to turn non-voters into voters with 'bulletproof' registration status and help them to cast their ballots perfectly. Any other expenditure of money and/or effort is relatively trivial.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:10 PM on September 4 [28 favorites]


Flipping Florida to be somewhat reliably blue would be huge, but it doesn't help if we write off PA, MI, WI.
posted by Justinian at 4:13 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]


So this is a fun article for some light reading: HuffPost, The Purge of Transgender People From American Life Has Begun. The last paragraph is especially chilling.
In October of 1938, the Reich Ministry of the Interior invalidated all passports held by Jews, and required that they be surrendered. If the US State Department revokes the passports of people who have changed their gender markers and demands that they be surrendered, it’s a sign that the government doesn’t want transgender people to escape what happens next.
The last few words may be a bit hyperbolic as of yet, but the revocation - or at least the denial of new passports or changes - is absolutely possible, as I understand it, and the military ban makes it all the more probable. We exist at the grace and mercy of the State Department and the Social Security Administration. Legal gender and name changes are all in a database somewhere. If ruining the lives of innocent DREAMers is acceptable, why not sinful, perverted, yucky trans people?
posted by AFABulous at 4:13 PM on September 4 [76 favorites]


honestly at this point i think trump could grow a toothbrush mustache, start wearing jackboots, and goosestep down pennsylvania avenue and some people would still be "i don't know about these hitler comparisons" and "but the antifa"
posted by entropicamericana at 4:43 PM on September 4 [77 favorites]


WaPo: EPA now requires political aide’s sign-off for agency awards, grant applications

"Earlier this summer, on the same day that Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska joined with two other Republicans in voting down a GOP health-care bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act, EPA staffers were instructed without any explanation to halt all grants to the regional office that covers Alaska, Washington, Oregon and Idaho. That hold was quickly narrowed just to Alaska and remained in place for nearly two weeks."

This is totally normal. Everyone move along.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:47 PM on September 4 [78 favorites]


Almost a two full weeks until the Clown Car of Collusion forgot what they were doing. That has to be some kind of record.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:10 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]


Megan Amram at the New Yorker found Jared Kushner's Harvard admissions essay and it's surprisingly good.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:12 PM on September 4 [7 favorites]


President Shitty McGee just threw out some red meat to his disgusting "base" today for Labor Day, the day after announcing his plans to scrap DACA. I typically think he is too stupid to use allusions, but this choice of words cannot be a mistake:

We are building our future with American hands, American labor, American iron, aluminum and steel. Happy #LaborDay!
posted by dhens at 5:21 PM on September 4


Says the guy who didn't buy American steel for his needs.
posted by Archelaus at 5:23 PM on September 4 [37 favorites]


What a piece of shit.
posted by kittensofthenight at 5:27 PM on September 4 [16 favorites]


Megan Amram at the New Yorker found Jared Kushner's Harvard admissions essay and it's surprisingly good.

[fake]
posted by Coventry at 5:31 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]


Megan Amram is Harvard College class of 2010.
posted by AwkwardPause at 5:35 PM on September 4


A better plan might be strong coalition-building to energize people who don't normally vote who are the bulk of people.

If Trump doesn't motivate them to vote in 2018 and 2020 I'm not sure anything will do so. What could one possibly say to reach such people?


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."
posted by Samizdata at 5:39 PM on September 4 [4 favorites]


I thought we had that last time.
posted by ryanrs at 6:01 PM on September 4 [40 favorites]


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."

Amen, we need a good candidate for a change. Someone who understands working class values, perhaps someone who even knows carpentry and welding? ;-)
posted by MikeWarot at 6:02 PM on September 4


The DSA is planned to arrive at Trump Tower for DEFEND DACA at 5:30, Look for the red.

Related far left news : The Guardian looks at the rise of Socialism in the US and they mention having to appeal to both Trump voters and nonvoters
posted by The Whelk at 6:05 PM on September 4 [10 favorites]


carpenter, you say?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:05 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."

That's worked once in 20 years. Twice if you count both Obama terms.
posted by Justinian at 6:06 PM on September 4 [13 favorites]


I don't know. I sort of like the old sci fi story. Since the idea is no one would want all the responsibility and still be fully sane, there's a giant computer that keeps track of everyone, and, once every election, it picks the best candidate. The government shows up at their door and says "Hi, you're the new president. Come with us."
posted by Samizdata at 6:12 PM on September 4 [12 favorites]




"If you voted for Trump or are even Republican do not message me."

Yep, I'm one of those, except mine reads, "If you voted for Trump, 1) swipe left; 2) go fuck yourself." I didn't notice any significant drop in my number of matches, which I found encouraging.
posted by holborne at 6:16 PM on September 4 [11 favorites]


Sessions will hold a briefing on DACA at 11am Eastern tomorrow. Then he'll leave without taking questions, because he's an asshole.
posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on September 4 [17 favorites]


"If you voted for Trump or are even Republican do not message me."

My profile said for awhile "If you voted for the candidate who thinks it's ok to grab pussies without consent, you're not getting anywhere near mine."
posted by mcduff at 6:23 PM on September 4 [48 favorites]


The giant computer could even be no more than a random number generator. Consider the representative democracy that would result. In such a lottocracy the winners could all get a million dollars to encourage people signing up and the losers have to serve in public office for a term. As in our current system I'd expect the staff of the various offices would do all the work anyway, but a real cross section of public opinion would call the shots, without the circus of elections.

I kid.

Mostly.
posted by Captain Shenanigan at 6:25 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]




We have reached peak crazification factor.

@Mikel_Jollett
Americans "proud" Trump is the President: 26%
Americans who support mass deportation: 26%
Americans who think the Sun orbits the Earth: 26%

- For the record, these numbers are real: Poll: Nearly two thirds of Americans support DACA while 60 percent oppose Arpaio pardon

- I'm completely not kidding about this 26% figure: 1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says
posted by chris24 at 6:26 PM on September 4 [87 favorites]


I just hope all three are the same 26%.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:34 PM on September 4 [68 favorites]




There's some sort of movie to be made about a vengeful female character who makes a pro-Trump profile and then is awful to every one of her gentleman callers. That's how angry I am at Trump voters: I wish an exaggerated version of my twenty-something self upon them.
posted by angrycat at 6:36 PM on September 4 [31 favorites]


While acknowledging that candidates matter and appealing to people who don't vote matters, enabling people to vote also matters: the slow rollback of the Voting Rights Act that accelerated with Shelby and other novel non-VRA-related attempts at voter suppression have had their toll. If we're going to blame people for not voting, or, conversely, if we're going to excuse people for not voting -- and in either case treat Not Voters as a block -- we should remember that people who don't vote are a heterogeneous group: many of them want to vote, but they can't (even small barriers snare some people); and, yes, some of them don't want to vote, but could.

Some of the people who didn't vote against Trump didn't vote because their votes were suppressed: that wasn't lack of motivation. And some of the people who didn't vote against Trump didn't vote because not enough people who can vote do. Those are both real, and entangled, problems.

We need a new, fifty-state VRA crafted for the modern era. The difficulty is going to be getting enough people elected under the current system to do that.
posted by cjelli at 6:36 PM on September 4 [34 favorites]


Of course enabling people to vote is equally important as getting them to vote, a modern VRA would include holidays for voting, vastly expanded voting by mail, radical renfransicement, good neighbor initiatives like bussing people to stations and automatic registration in all states. And an absolute take town of any voter ID laws.

Plus tackling gerrymandering in the next census. That's vital.
posted by The Whelk at 6:41 PM on September 4 [18 favorites]


Sessions will hold a briefing on DACA at 11am Eastern tomorrow.

Trump can't even stand up and announce what he's doing to 800k kids. What a fucking piece of shit coward.
posted by chris24 at 6:54 PM on September 4 [72 favorites]


Sessions will hold a briefing on DACA at 11am Eastern tomorrow.

Trump can't even stand up and announce what he's doing to 800k kids. What a fucking piece of shit coward.


Hey, now, he's too busy doing President stuff. You have to prioritize and delegate the unimportant stuff to subordinates.
posted by Samizdata at 7:07 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]


Early-in-discussion encouragement to fire up ResistBot and fax your congresspersons about DACA. I encouraged mine to block everything including the DC vote until DACA is made law by both houses.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:13 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


@mattyglesias:
Whatever you think of him, Trump's a great showman and it's telling that he doesn't want to star in the DACA episode of the Trump Show.
posted by chris24 at 7:20 PM on September 4 [30 favorites]


We have reached peak crazification factor.

Elected Republicans willing to go on record against the 26% = 0. Total.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:22 PM on September 4 [29 favorites]


Because crazy votes.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:30 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."

That's worked once in 20 years. Twice if you count both Obama terms.


I wouldn't count Obama. He won as "change" and "Not Bush" after Bush crashed the economy, then as "give me more time for change". He didn't ever win as "I'm the guy that's going to keep the lights on and do everything exactly the same", which is what America heard from the Clinton campaign.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


"Billy Joel could write a new verse for "We Didn't Start The Fire" every week with this administration if he wanted to."
I'm content to sit back and wait for some future early-era-TMBG-style group to do a song wherein a confused person recites how Texas was smothered by an invisible 6'3" rabbit…
posted by Pinback at 7:36 PM on September 4 [9 favorites]


Trump can't even stand up and announce what he's doing to 800k kids. What a fucking piece of shit coward.

Oh, but Sessions will love doing it. Just his kind of fun.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:37 PM on September 4 [8 favorites]


Trump does this thing like he's giving a response at a news conference and wants to end discussion beyond what he just said:

I will be meeting General Kelly, General Mattis and other military leaders at the White House to discuss North Korea. Thank you. (September 3)
and
I will be having a general news conference on JANUARY ELEVENTH in N.Y.C. Thank you. (January 3, after weeks of controversy about not holding a news conference up til this point)
posted by Theiform at 7:40 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]


"We need a graphic that can be easily drawn or spray painted. This graphic symbol to express a desire for the current tyrant to be not in a position of power."

A hand giving the finger (in the shape of Trump Tower), negated inside an Ø…
posted by Pinback at 7:41 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


Donny's all excited to fuck over 800k kids to please his racist base. What a fucking asshole.

@realDonaldTrump:
Big week coming up!
posted by chris24 at 7:55 PM on September 4 [10 favorites]


Just recapitulate the name as the character very ably played by Robert Richard Brooks in Firefly's Objects In Space.

Does that seem right to you?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:56 PM on September 4 [14 favorites]


it's telling that [Trump] doesn't want to star in the DACA episode of the Trump Show.

It doesn't activate for six months. The narrative can be "Trump wanted Congress to pass a law about them, rather than having to rely on the extra-legal Executive Order that Obama decreed." The Republicans can stymie any such law by tacking unacceptable conditions to it and blaming the impassé on the Democrats, thereby making the Democrats unpopular with their base. So Trump gets to sign a piece of paper and look important; his base can get all jizzed up about deporting immigrants; and he gets to blame a debacle on someone else. Whatever happens, there's a narrative that makes Trump look good.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:08 PM on September 4 [7 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Big week coming up!

Rarely has context rendered an otherwise cheerful piece of pabulum so ominous.
posted by cjelli at 8:09 PM on September 4 [37 favorites]


I'd actually never heard the name outside the context of the Firefly episode until the POTUS45 threads.
posted by Archelaus at 8:11 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Big week coming up!

Another Cat 4 hurricane is headed inland Don... maybe Mother Nature is trying to tell you something?
posted by Marky at 8:15 PM on September 4 [4 favorites]


ok this new excerpt from HRC's book is CRACKING ME UP so I share it with you [fake]
posted by lalex at 8:19 PM on September 4 [12 favorites]


Same, Archelaus.
posted by greermahoney at 8:20 PM on September 4




Another Cat 4 hurricane is headed inland

Is it clear that Irma is going to hit CONUS yet, or that it will be powerful if it does? I thought that this video gives a good overview of the likely scenarios given current information, but it might already be out of date.
posted by Coventry at 8:24 PM on September 4


It is likely though not certain that it will hit CONUS. Discussion is sorta going on over in the Harvey thread 'cause of course this year is bringing us one shit sandwich after another.
posted by Justinian at 8:27 PM on September 4


ok this new excerpt from HRC's book is CRACKING ME UP so I share it with you [fake]

I had to expend a lot of willpower today to stop myself form sharing the excerpts I saw on Twitter, both to this board and my Facebook. It left me very torn between "OMG THIS" and "don't relitigate the primaries." But so far I'm not sure how we can discuss what has dropped without violating the primaries rule here (which, let's face it, is a very reasonable and necessary rule at this point).
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:28 PM on September 4 [7 favorites]


(for anyone else wondering, CONUS = contiguous United States)
posted by lalex at 8:29 PM on September 4 [32 favorites]


But so far I'm not sure how we can discuss what has dropped without violating the primaries rule here

This is a good point. I think when more is available it should get its own separate post, because it is going to involve 1) relitigating the primaries and 2) evaluating her general election campaign, two things that do not go well around here.
posted by lalex at 8:31 PM on September 4 [9 favorites]


There's some sort of movie to be made about a vengeful female character who makes a pro-Trump profile and then is awful to every one of her gentleman callers.

Some sort of movie, or... some kind of Twitter account, maybe?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:37 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]


Clinton's book is about the last thing I care about or relevant to the future of the Democratic party, if we could have that conversation approximately never and just pretend she's still in the forest, that'd be fantastic.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:37 PM on September 4 [7 favorites]


[Please let's skip the millionth rehash of what thread regulars think of Clinton and the pros and cons of her campaign.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:42 PM on September 4 [34 favorites]


We need a graphic that can be easily drawn or spray painted. This graphic symbol to express a desire for the current tyrant to be not in a position of power.

Two glyphs:
In the first a giant wolf towers over tiny people. The wolf is happy.
In the second the severed head of the (now normal size) wolf dangles from a person's hand. The wolf is dead.
posted by um at 8:47 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]


Anything he's excited about can't be good. The man wants ketchup on his well-done steak, for crying out loud.

The other day during the eclipse, there was something floating around how the event would somehow suck $700 billion from the economy. By that metric, we must be trillions in the hole from people looking at their phones and asking, "What has that asshole done NOW?!" for these 200 days. Feels like 200 years.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:48 PM on September 4 [25 favorites]


I think one day in the future, when the mods have had lots and lots of time to breathe and rest, they should announce the opening of the official MetaFilter relitigate the primaries MeTa. Favorites are removed, the 'other' flag is removed, and everyone gets one comment and has to use 'I' statements. Thirty days later the thread is blasted into space.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:54 PM on September 4 [38 favorites]


Psst. That link was to a parody bit about Hillary's book. It's pretty funny, actually. So no relitigation there.
posted by litlnemo at 8:58 PM on September 4 [8 favorites]


1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says

Who cares? Sherlock Holmes didn't:
“What the deuce is [the solar system] to me?” he exclaims to Watson in A Study in Scarlet. “You say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work.” And now that he knows that fact? “I shall do my best to forget it,” he promises.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:03 PM on September 4 [3 favorites]


Thirty days later the thread is blasted into space.

Thirty days later the thread with all participants is blasted into space.
posted by um at 9:04 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]




Are Baby Boomers a generation of sociopaths? Let's ask a venture capitalist for some hasty generalizations and anti-social security and anti-medicare dog-whistles!!!

You know who are sociopaths? The people who use attacks on a large amorphous groups as a proxy for their desire to dismantle social security and medicare, two proven, popular programs which are not actually in trouble unless we fail to take extremely simple, well-defined and not particularly painful steps. "Social security and medicare help the boomers, who are pure evil, so let's get rid of those things!!!" is a line of reasoning I've been hearing far too often in the past couple of years.

I really notice an increasingly paranoid mentality all over the place since Trump - whether people are blaming antifa, Russians or boomers, it's the same kind of hardening of thought, the same desire for an out-group which is evil and above all scheming and sinister, and the same desire to force that group into existence from a hodge podge of disparate interests. It's given me new insight into the red scare anyway, I guess there's that.
posted by Frowner at 9:13 PM on September 4 [82 favorites]


the 'other' flag is removed

whaaaaat no that would obviously the day to finally announce the implementation of the freeform text flag option and make the various flag reasons automatically post to MeFi's twitter
posted by lalex at 9:16 PM on September 4 [7 favorites]


what happened to the bound man
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:21 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]


I mean, in re Baby Boomers and sociopathy: does it occur to anyone that Social Security and medicare are "untouchable" not because baby boomers are pure evil but because those are good programs and a lot of people want to preserve them? And that even if some boomer is all "I will get out there and vote for my social security check", that's actually all right? I mean, some enormous percentage of Americans have no retirement but what they get from social security, and those are the very Americans who are likely to work in professions where you physically give out after a while. "I'm voting for not starving in the street, and that's because I'm a sociopath," I guess.

You know what? Even if you told me that there would literally be zero social security for me when I retired, I'd still vote to continue it because society would be hugely worse with huge numbers of desperate homeless old people right now today. Most of my friends would suddenly have to feed and house their parents, for instance. Ditto for my feelings on Medicare and Medicaid.

Anyone would think that each generation sprang fresh from the head of Zeus and had no fathers or mothers, the way people talk.

We're all going to get old. Do you really think that if this line of reasoning works to attack social benefits now, it's going to go away? It will be "Gen-X-eration of sociopaths" in twenty years if we have anything worth taking away.
posted by Frowner at 9:25 PM on September 4 [84 favorites]


lol at the idea of gen-x getting any attention at all
posted by entropicamericana at 9:26 PM on September 4 [65 favorites]


Or wanting it.
posted by ctmf at 9:30 PM on September 4 [10 favorites]


To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider the Janitors at Two Top Companies, Then and Now (NYTimes):
In the 35 years between their jobs as janitors, corporations across America have flocked to a new management theory: Focus on core competence and outsource the rest. The approach has made companies more nimble and more productive, and delivered huge profits for shareholders. It has also fueled inequality and helps explain why many working-class Americans are struggling even in an ostensibly healthy economy.

The $16.60 per hour Ms. Ramos earns as a janitor at Apple works out to about the same in inflation-adjusted terms as what Ms. Evans earned 35 years ago. But that’s where the similarities end.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:34 PM on September 4 [17 favorites]


We're all going to get old.

I thought we're all going to be forcibly uploaded into Jupiter when Peter Thiel turns the entire planet into computronium.
posted by Coventry at 9:36 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


Re: general attitudes toward societal protections, I think the point is that everyone supports Social Security and Medicare, but many in the qualifying age groups for those programs do not reciprocally support anything that helps future generations, even though it would cost them literally nothing to do so.
posted by SakuraK at 9:42 PM on September 4 [11 favorites]


the only attention Gen X wants is recognition it's been ignored.
posted by The Whelk at 9:44 PM on September 4 [37 favorites]


> Billy Joel could write a new verse for "We Didn't Start The Fire" every week with this administration if he wanted to.

Nah, let's crowdsource our own. I'll start:
Neo-nazis, Covfefe, Red "Jina", Rare Pepe
Jeff Sessions, Steve Mnuchin, Comey's gotta go
Joe and Mika, Trolls on Twitter, Approval rating's in the shitter
North Korea, South Korea, Pardoned Arpaio

Manafort, Michael Flynn, Kislyak, Tillerson
Tom Price, Spicey Time, and The Failing New York Times
Kellyanne, Bowling Green, such a fine-tuned machine
Reince Priebus, Scaramucci, "Grab 'em by the pussy!"

[chorus]

Michael Cohen, Peskov, Sater and Agalarov
Bannon's lying, now he's trying to suck on his own cock
Gary Cohn, Wilbur Ross, Mick Mulvaney, and DeVos
Ben Wittes, "tick tick tick", must be Scoop o'clock

Erdogan, Duterte, UK's got Theresa May
Joe and Mika, Fox and Friends, Mar-a-Lago -- golf again?
Alex Jones, David Duke, Kim Jong-un un has a nuke
Sally Yates, Russiagate, Putin has the Pee-Pee Tape
posted by tonycpsu at 9:48 PM on September 4 [100 favorites]


I have no sympathy for these kids. (Ben Wexler on Twitter)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:52 PM on September 4 [28 favorites]


tonycpsu, you have a gift for meter and rhyme!
posted by SakuraK at 9:57 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


Billy Joel could write a new verse for "We Didn't Start The Fire" every week with this administration if he wanted to.

There was a pretty good one a few threads back. Or maybe it was yesterday. I can't tell anymore.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:57 PM on September 4 [5 favorites]


(oh well whatever nevermind)
posted by riverlife at 10:01 PM on September 4 [14 favorites]


Re: general attitudes toward societal protections, I think the point is that everyone supports Social Security and Medicare, but many in the qualifying age groups for those programs do not reciprocally support anything that helps future generations, even though it would cost them literally nothing to do so.

Well, it's more complicated than that. For example, white support for social support programs has gone down (and continues to go down) ever since it became apparent they were used by POC and the GOP made an effort to cultivate that association.

Part of the reason you see Baby Boomers get so shitty towards younger generations is because they associate that generation as being more heavily POC (which it is) and thus think they're all a bunch of lazy thugs who want to live off the government.
posted by schroedinger at 10:14 PM on September 4 [9 favorites]


> the thread with all participants is blasted into space.

I've been trying to be frugal and non-noisy in these, the POTUS45 threads, but I've got say that if commenting here means being increased likelihood of being blasted into space, I'm going to have to comment a whole lot more.

Since I've been led to unhelpfully snarky...

Gerymandering reform.
Voter registration (and access!!) reform.
FCC (not) punishing/regulating media falsehoods (make them bend backwords to rely on even more obscure dogwhistles, encourage the media to identify said dogwhistles when used).

These are THE important issues and close-to-source causes of what the fuck is going wrong.

Shit, when I was in IA doing a lib arts undergrad starting in '96, I (and most of the "lefty people") already pegged CNN as the mealy mouthed "right wing media."

Fox News was just starting out and I immediately thought it was complete bullshit - how can America even go rightward of CNN? But Fox did and did and did and... (I was unaware of right-wing radio at the time)

The progressive people (many of whom remained so, and many of those who are/have been are continuing to FUCK YEAH be politically active) were clamouring for the student union building's bookstore to subscribe to the New York Times or any other politically neutral media. Heh, The Onion was a fought after commodity imported by students who returned from visits to Wisconsin.

First year students were forced to have roommates; I got an asshole young republican football playing (but "injured" so didn't play much) asshole as mine - he only got worse the more he associated with the "Proud American" crowd. The college brought me on for higher tuition and, paying lipservice, to head off this exact situation we're seeing here wrt xenophobia.

Didn't work, but maybe that was partially/mostly my fault - being a stupid 18yo forced roommate (Asian, non-sporty, non-Xtian, super literary/sciencey, druggy/party kid).

But not, this little racist-wannabe supremacist IA boy got increasingly radicalized against me (and all the other international students, and even against the popular party-going hispanics) over the course of this first year (and second, and third). This alt-right prototype entered college as an anti-partying type and ended up being some follower wannabe heavy partying support-dude.
posted by porpoise at 10:16 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


(for anyone else wondering, CONUS = contiguous United States)

Huh. I always thought it was Continental. TIL...
posted by Samizdata at 10:21 PM on September 4 [3 favorites]


I did, too. Turns out it's both.
posted by Coventry at 10:22 PM on September 4


some follower wannabe heavy partying support-dude.

I can't even parse this, FWIW.
posted by Samizdata at 10:23 PM on September 4 [6 favorites]


I'm one of the 800,000. I'm not a child, I am in my 30s and was brought to the United States when I was 7. Since I was 7, even in an area where the demographic was always majority Hispanic I have been hiding the fact I was undocumented. At the community pool, on playgrounds, and at the blacktop in elementary the threat of being deported was more of a tease to bully kids; it didn't feel real. No less marginalizing, mind you.

Perhaps it felt especially shameful to me because I was always in the gifted classes, and correspondingly surrounded by children from demographics very different from my own (white, affluent, educated parents, etc). That sense of shame continued through high school. At that point it became about coming up with reasons I wasn’t driving or hoping they weren’t carding for the R rated movie.

Those social pressures add up, but they pale in comparison to the gripping reality of what comes after you graduated as an undocumented student. I had been preparing my whole life for college applications: community service, IB and AP classes, extracurricular activities. My parents and I got to celebrate my admission letters and I get my pick of my top schools. But slowly, reality begins to set in. No federal aid available, my parents combined earned less than my yearly tuition, I can’t afford a dorm or apartment, let alone sign a lease without an ID.

So we figure it out, I managed some private scholarships. I commute on a ride Vanpool service the school has just a little over a hundred dollars a month. I won’t buy textbooks, just do my work in the library. I’ll do some tutoring during summer to save money. All of it so much less than I am asking of my parents, they borrow and scrimp and my dad’s car gets hit but he uses the insurance money to pay my tuition. He has to beg coworkers for rides.

They manage to get me through school without getting loaded with debt. The problem is, this is 2006 and I still don’t have a work permit or an ID. I continue to take classes, tutor, find jobs, but still depend on my brother and his wife.

In 2012, Obama and DACA changed my life. As soon as that work permit was in my hand, I found a better job. I could pay for a car, my tuition and I spent the next 2 years getting my teaching credential. Two years ago I became a full time teacher in a school with 98% low income students, where over 50% are considered homeless. Every day I am trying to help kids who face greater disadvantages than I did. I’m not selfless, I still need to get payed to do it, but I’m proud of what I do for a paycheck.

What DACA gave me was the ability to feel like I can contribute, that I’m not a burden to people I love. I can help my parents, siblings, friends, and strangers. I don’t have to feel any shame just for existing in this country.

I’m sorry for the long, frankly embarrassing, personal post. The reason I wanted to write this because even though it feels uniquely mine, I’m certain this experience among those 800,000 is not unique.
posted by di11ihd at 10:24 PM on September 4 [688 favorites]


some follower wannabe heavy partying support-dude.

Stupid assed "alcohol is the devil" during highschool, but changes their mind/actions in college to sheep-like follower of people with toxic masculinity leadership skills. Who start drinking heavily and don't know how to do it well/safely.

When drunk, they rouse the rabble by having a reputation for "being a football jock" and end up being fight-ey footsoldiers for the "Real Americans" crowd and/or encourage the like.

Also, encouraging irresponsible alcohol use and using (mal)social engineering, leading to people being even more open to indoctrination (qv toxic fraternites).
posted by porpoise at 10:36 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


Thank you so much for joining the thread and sharing your story di11ihd.

We need to fight like hell. The ACLU has a map of DACA protests in some cities tomorrow. There are also the events in New York The Whelk posted, and one for San Francisco at 5pm at the federal building. Whether you can protest or not, you can pick up the phone and call your reps in the morning.
posted by zachlipton at 10:37 PM on September 4 [36 favorites]


OK, for those of us planning to make calls tomorrow who only get our news by reading, are people pronouncing DACA like a word, or saying all four letters? Want to make sure I don't sound like a weirdo
posted by potrzebie at 10:43 PM on September 4 [3 favorites]


Like a word.
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]


some follower wannabe heavy partying support-dude.

Stupid assed "alcohol is the devil" during highschool, but changes their mind/actions in college to sheep-like follower of people with toxic masculinity leadership skills. Who start drinking heavily and don't know how to do it well/safely.

When drunk, they rouse the rabble by having a reputation for "being a football jock" and end up being fight-ey footsoldiers for the "Real Americans" crowd and/or encourage the like.

Also, encouraging irresponsible alcohol use and using (mal)social engineering, leading to people being even more open to indoctrination (qv toxic fraternites).


Cheers for the clarification. Never known one.
posted by Samizdata at 10:56 PM on September 4


I'm so, so sorry this is happening to you, di11ihd. I'll think of you when I do this week's calls and organizing against the DACA repeal.
posted by Rykey at 11:29 PM on September 4 [16 favorites]


"Hi, here's a good and decent presidential option."

I thought we had that last time.

We did. And she won by three million votes. It's not even been a year and people seem to forget that.

We outnumber the maga idiots, never forget that.
posted by zardoz at 12:09 AM on September 5 [68 favorites]


I’m sorry for the long, frankly embarrassing, personal post

Thanks for writing it.
posted by dmh at 12:17 AM on September 5 [38 favorites]


Seriously,

We outnumber the maga idiots, never forget that.

Remind people, make it a point. He won by hook and crook, and even then only barely.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:19 AM on September 5 [8 favorites]


We outnumber the maga idiots, never forget that.

We're not locked up in here with them. They're locked up in here with us.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 AM on September 5 [54 favorites]


By the way, the inspiration for the thread title: (YouTube video).
posted by darkstar at 1:53 AM on September 5 [3 favorites]


Leopards, faces; but they don't deserve this:
When ICE Came for the Chaldeans
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:47 AM on September 5 [18 favorites]


You're not a burden di11ihd, we want you. People like you actually make America great, and we will not forget you or people like you. We will fight for you.
posted by supercrayon at 3:02 AM on September 5 [127 favorites]


di11ihd, v. few things I've read on MetaFilter have made me cry. Your comment (your life story really) did. Thank you so much for writing it. It's good to have another arrow in my quiver for the war to save DACA.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:54 AM on September 5 [31 favorites]


OUT: Leopards IN: Tigers, Chettahs

The Insane Gifts Saudi Arabia Gave President Trump (Ken Klippenatein, Daily Beast)
During the presidential campaign, Donald Trump attacked Hillary Clinton for accepting money from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, complaining during one of the debates, “These are people that kill women and treat women horribly and yet you take their money.”

That was, of course, before he made his first foreign visit as president to Saudi Arabia—and accepted dozens of gifts from the kingdom. In fact, during Trump’s visit, the White House accepted at least 83 separate gifts from Saudi Arabia, according to a document The Daily Beast has obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request to the State Department.

The gifts range from the regal (“Artwork featuring picture of President Trump”) to the martial (multiple swords, daggers, leather ammo holders and holsters), to the baroque (tiger and cheetah fur robes, and a dagger made of pure silver with a mother of pearl sheath). Now when the president is contemplating the state of Saudi women’s rights, he can do so before a “large canvas artwork depicting [a] Saudi woman.”
Full list at The Daily Beast
posted by Room 641-A at 4:00 AM on September 5 [18 favorites]


We need a graphic the can be easily drawn and spray painted

Meet the Artist Whose Swastika-Inspired Anti-Trump Logo Has Gone Viral Across the Country
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:10 AM on September 5 [21 favorites]


di11ihd, I went to HS with a number of gals in your situation but in the dark. Their parents frankly lied to them about their status, couching it in strictness. "Girls shouldn't be driving at night, I can drive you where you need to go, you don't need a license." "No, you should help at home, you don't need an after school job." "I'm glad you got a part in that play but you're only in the chorus so you need to drop out and work in the family business instead." "If I let you get an ID you'll just cross the border and go drinking like a bad girl." (Drinking age was 18). "Just apply in town, I don't want you to move so far away to college. " "Why would you want to go to school far away with a bunch of gringos?"

Eventually they'd graduate and maybe go into college locally, part time, or want to get a job, but the truth would come out, and the only way to "get legal" was to marry in their late teens to a citizen. not a lot of happy marriages in that cohort. And it angers me that the parents would just stymie every opportunity these young ladies might have to succeed if they'd been able to have a path to citizenship, participatory citizenship, even legal alien status to work and pay taxes and go to school other than the local community college.

A lot of us graduated with small business management skills (vo tech high) because this was the way it was done. The school knew the fates of the non college and US citizen status negative girls, and adjusted their curriculum accordingly. With the SMB route, girls could marry and run their husband or fathers or uncles or other older relatives' small business, off the books or just over the Texas/Mexico border at best. Or marry young and just make sure their kids are born on the "right" side of the line this time.
posted by tilde at 4:22 AM on September 5 [43 favorites]


Leopards, faces; but they don't deserve this:

No, but they voted for it.
posted by thelonius at 4:25 AM on September 5 [19 favorites]


Gifts to the President are not considered their personal property, it's official US government property, and eventually ends up in museums or vaults at the national archive, then the presidential library. After leaving office the president is supposed to pay fair market value to personally keep anything.

Let's see how many cheetah skin rugs and pure silver daggers instead end up on the walls of a Trump property.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:35 AM on September 5 [15 favorites]


Hoo boy can you imagine what the Trump presidental library will be like
posted by Melismata at 4:41 AM on September 5 [10 favorites]


Probably something like this?
posted by Molesome at 4:54 AM on September 5 [11 favorites]


realdonaldtrump on twitter: get to work on daca, congress (not exact, close enough)
posted by Yowser at 5:33 AM on September 5


get to work on daca, congress

Easy peasy. Just pass legislation making DACA law. Done by lunchtime.
posted by mikelieman at 5:42 AM on September 5 [5 favorites]


"I am allowing Japan & South Korea to buy a substantially increased amount of highly sophisticated military equipment from the United States." [real] [two compound adjectives, wonder who wrote it]
posted by box at 5:44 AM on September 5 [3 favorites]


Yeah, he was pretty vague on which way he wanted DACA to go.

As if it wasn't obvious which way that white supremacist and the racist keebler wants it to go.
posted by Yowser at 5:45 AM on September 5 [2 favorites]


(not exact, close enough

Or, exactly, 'Congress, get ready to do your job - DACA!' -- which notably omits explicitly saying what Trump actually wants Congress to do. Boldly vague leadership, that.

He really does seem to be angling to sell himself as sympathetic to the people he's actively taking steps to hurt. This is beyond gross.
posted by cjelli at 5:47 AM on September 5 [10 favorites]


[DACA repeal] doesn't activate for six months. The narrative can be "Trump wanted Congress to pass a law about them, rather than having to rely on the extra-legal Executive Order that Obama decreed."

Speaking of narrative, even-the-liberal-NPR helped reinforce the phony narrative this morning by airing, unchallenged, an audio clip of Trump calling Obama's executive order illegal.

In reality, and as NPR probably knows, Congress forces the President to impose priorities by not providing the resources to round up every illegal immigrant. And, of course, the Republicans weren't willing to mount a serious legal challenge to DACA, just call it illegal in friendly media venues.

Which these days, it appears, includes NPR.
posted by Gelatin at 5:57 AM on September 5 [49 favorites]


It's the advance parole - the work permit, which can be granted on a "only on a case by case basis," per the statute - that is illegal, not the prioritization of resources for deportation.
posted by jpe at 6:03 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


Moscow Times - looks legit.
Putin left a reporter’s question on whether he thinks Trump faces impeachment, unanswered. The question followed comments from Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova on a Sunday talk show that “it could be worth remembering” that “not all American presidents have reached the end of their term.”

The comment marks a significant departure from the positive tone struck by Russian state media and officials leading up to Trump's election last November.
posted by tilde at 6:20 AM on September 5 [11 favorites]


Susan Davis/NPR: 6 Priorities Congress Has To Deal With In 12 Days
  1. Keep the government running
  2. Avoid the first-ever default
  3. Begin Hurricane Harvey relief efforts
  4. Renew the National Flood Insurance Program
  5. Renew children's health care
  6. Face reality on health care
All this before September 30th.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:26 AM on September 5 [32 favorites]


Susan Davis/NPR: 6 Priorities Congress Has To Deal With In 12 Days

i will never beat myself up for procrastinating ever again
posted by murphy slaw at 6:27 AM on September 5 [47 favorites]


For those who, despite their good looks, hipness, and inherent coolstery, had too look up the post title, the answer is Futurama. Specfically America's penultimate worst President, Reagan, Dubya, Robot Nixon.
(Bottom of page)
posted by petebest at 6:27 AM on September 5 [6 favorites]




All this before September 30th.

And we can add to that a Category 5 hurricane possibly aimed at Miami, one of the few places where landfall could be much worse than Harvey, in what disaster planners call "the scariest scenario."
posted by zombieflanders at 6:44 AM on September 5 [14 favorites]


Two years ago I became a full time teacher in a school with 98% low income students, where over 50% are considered homeless.

One thing that continues to drive me crazy about the GOP's continued resistance to every progressive program is how much financial sense they make.

I think that a lot of people hear or read anecdotes like that and think to themselves, "Wow, because of DACA, this person really was able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Now they've got a fulfilling and successful career helping others somewhat like themselves. A real American success story!" And from a moral perspective I think that's right on the mark.

But I look at that story with my financial eye and I see a story about a family that the U.S. as a society should have been investing in, should have spent years being a net tax drain. And despite the fact that that didn't happen, has nonetheless turned themselves into a net tax contributor. Additionally, I would argue that smart, hard-working, driven, passionate teacher in school with a lot low-income students will have secondary effects that cause tax expenditures to be lower among that teacher's students and/or increases tax income from that group.

Is every single citizen and potential citizen that gets "invested" in payoff? No certainly not. But I absolutely believe that every effective social program contributes to a net gain in tax revenue. Take the humanity out of it and look at it as a cold financial problem and welfare and other social programs as investments and I think they still make sense. Though you've got to bring the humanity back into the mix pretty fast before you start thinking of people in terms of a "bad investment" and "throwing good money after bad" and the like.

If it were up to me, I'd locate every undocumented immigrant in the country and I'd give them documents, I'd give them homes, food, education, and a damn stipend along with everyone else with similar needs. Then I'd be able to pay-off the national debt with the massive influx of tax revenue years later as many of those families start to have some success.

"Wages are up, stock market is setting new record highs, unemployment at record lows, GDP with nice sustained gains, everyone in the U.S. is happy and healthy as are all our allies? That's nice and all, but did you see the ROI on that tax money we keep spending on the needy? I'm a financial genius!" said hypothetical president for life VTX in a future that will never exist.

Also ask.me would be the unofficial assistant cabinet secretary for every cabinet position.
posted by VTX at 6:45 AM on September 5 [69 favorites]


...she won by three million votes. It's not even been a year and people seem to forget that.

And on the most progressive major-party platform in American history.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:50 AM on September 5 [41 favorites]


di11ihd: Two years ago I became a full time teacher...

God DAMN, you are exactly the kind of person -- 100% regardless of where you were born -- that America needs more of: self-directed, empathetic, mindful of opportunity, and working hard to make things better for the next generation. Instead of pulling up the ladder, you've gone to work in the ladder factory.

Come here, stay here, post as much as you want!

You can be the damn guest of honor at any MeFi MeetUp you attend, if I don't miss my guess, and I will happily buy you a beer or a coffee any time you're in Providence, RI.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:54 AM on September 5 [63 favorites]


Hoo boy can you imagine what the Trump presidental library will be like

The Daily Show gave us a preview in June.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:59 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


Easy peasy. Just pass legislation making DACA law. Done by lunchtime.

And then every Republican who voted for it is primaried on the basis of having voted for "amnesty" for illegal immigrants. As long as Congress is in Republican hands, I wish I could see a path forward for the law, but I don't. Which means Trump is setting up Congress to take the blame for his own odious policy. Nice.

One thing that continues to drive me crazy about the GOP's continued resistance to every progressive program is how much financial sense they make.

Don't feel bad; it's obviously driven the Republicans crazy too.
posted by Gelatin at 7:07 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


Don't feel bad; it's obviously driven the Republicans crazy too.

Like how a black guy stole their idea for healthcare?
posted by Talez at 7:20 AM on September 5 [10 favorites]


If it were up to me, I'd locate every undocumented immigrant in the country and I'd give them documents, I'd give them homes, food, education, and a damn stipend along with everyone else with similar needs.

It's been said before, but: if someone claims to be concerned about people entering the country and working here despite not being documented, one really obvious solution is to make it easier for those people to become citizens. You can make undocumented immigrants (metaphorically) disappear tomorrow by documenting them all (and maybe apologize for taking so long to do it); and we should do that. We should be doubling or trebling the number of refugees and other immigrants we take in -- at a start, and ramp that up -- and we should be granting amnesty and citizenship to everyone who's here already. That would solve so many problems: extra labor for sectors in need; extra demand for housing and goods; and on a non-economic level, it would (partly) solve the problem of America being shitty to immigrants who have lived and worked and toiled in stress and uncertainty, who deserve better: they deserve citizenship.

The fact that the GOP is currently proposing immigration 'reform' that would reduce immigration, wholesale, puts a lie to the idea that they particularly care -- at the party-leadership level -- about documentation and process, if Trump's 2016 campaign didn't already make that clear enough. If they did, they'd be offering up new pathways to citizenship, with extra hoops to jump through and extra boxes to check. But they aren't: it's all of that, and also a drastic reduction in immigration. Their opposition to immigration is today almost openly racist (and in Trump's case, I would drop that 'almost'); that wasn't true ten years ago, or even five, but the Not Entirely Terrible wing of the party lost that fight. The sorts of bipartisan reform that were being proposed -- and not enacted, admittedly, for lack of GOP support -- would be unthinkable today. And yet, that the needle has moved so quickly in one direction suggests that it could quickly snap back -- in 2018, depending on how things go, or in 2020 if not then. I dearly hope that it's a big part of the Democratic platform in the next few years, because America's immigration system really does need a legislatively-driven overhaul.
posted by cjelli at 7:24 AM on September 5 [28 favorites]


Like how a black guy stole their idea for healthcare?

No, that's the symptom, not the disease. For good or ill, Obama proposed health insurance reform that he believed could attract Republican support. But since the depravity of the Republican party means that everything is political and they have no sincere political beliefs apart from "oppose whatever Democrats are for -- well, none that they can claim in public other than "cut taxes for the rich" -- Republicans voted in lockstep against it, even so-called "moderates" like McCain, Collins, and Olympia Snowe (now retired).

And why not? One of the few times "Bloody" Bill Kristol has been right is in his infamous memo to Republicans advising that they oppose Clinton's health reform on the grounds that it would validate Democratic theories of government and prove popular with voters. Which, it turns out, years later, was in fact the case.

It's a critical mistake to imagine that Republicans operate in good faith, and yet it's one that the so-called "liberal media" makes all the time (as do many Democrats). Whether it's because they're fools or knaves, I can't tell.
posted by Gelatin at 7:26 AM on September 5 [24 favorites]


The main problem here is that the US has immigration law that is utterly and completely at odds with reality, especially economic reality.

The simple, undeniable, fact is that the US corporate world has a huge appetite for labor that is not met by extant US citizens. There's good arguments to be made that this is due in large part to the US corporate world being unwilling to offer wages to make up for the shittiness of said jobs, or at least to make the jobs sufficiently less shitty that the low wages would be tolerable to most US citizens. But that's a secondary issue.

The key fact from an immigration standpoint is that there's a massive demand for labor that isn't met by US citizens, and with unemployment low it probably wouldn't be even if the wages rose or conditions improved.

This means immigrant labor is going to be paid and desired.

But US immigration law is both archaic and racist and doesn't permit enough legal immigrants to meet the corporate demand for labor. The process is all but deliberately designed to be obnoxious, awkward, filled with pitfalls and gotcha clauses, and basically to keep people out. Add immigration caps that are far too low, and you've got a system where illegal immigration is inevitable.

The simple, obvious, solution is to open the floodgates to legal immigration. Make work permits easy and simple to obtain, untie them from employers so the immigrants aren't held hostage by their bosses, and make them abundant.

Part of the problem is that a great many industries that employ large numbers of illegal immigrants don't actually want their labor force to be legal. They want the border patrol to stop bugging them, but they like the power the illegal status of their workers gives them. If the workers try to get better pay or conditions they can simply turn them over to ICE or threaten to. From an employer standpoint illegal workers are the best possible workers because they will work under conditions that are illegal, without health insurance for pay that's under minimum wage, with no employer contributions to social security, medicare/medicaid, unemployment, or any of the other overhead costs of having employees. And they can't unionize or even really complain.

So the industries that depend on immigrant labor, the ones who should in theory be flexing their lobbying muscle to update immigration law to allow vastly more legal immigrants, are often working quite diligently to maintain the status quo.

If organized labor had more clout the Democrats would be forced to put immigration reform at a higher priority, but organized labor has no clout.

As a result we've had an archaic, out of date, unrealistic, and blatantly racist immigration policy for my entire life, and a large undocumented population as a result.

No one but the racists or (or perhaps in Trump's case utter morons) actually wants to deport all the undocumented immigrants. Every time that happens industry collapses and the economy takes a massive hit. But a lot of powerful people **DO** want to keep undocumented immigrants as an officially oppressed underclass. They do not like the Dreamers who succeed, they want immigrants kept down, kept scared, and kept working shit jobs for pathetic wages.
posted by sotonohito at 7:38 AM on September 5 [141 favorites]


Susan Davis/NPR: 6 Priorities Congress Has To Deal With In 12 Days

Also, the FAA has to be reauthorized by the end of September. The House bill HR 2997 includes the privatization of ATC services, the senate bill does not. The CBO has scored the ATC privatization, it would cost $90.7 billion. This figure does not seem to include the billions of dollars of existing government assets that would be transferred to a new for-profit entity.
posted by peeedro at 7:42 AM on September 5 [9 favorites]


>Susan Davis/NPR: 6 Priorities Congress Has To Deal With In 12 Days

Also, the FAA has to be reauthorized by the end of September.


The Washington Post has another legislative priority calendar which includes the FAA authorization and some other events (eg, the Menendez trial, the AL GOP runoff) that further complicate the timeline, if anyone wants a complementary view of the month ahead.
posted by cjelli at 7:47 AM on September 5 [3 favorites]


I'm so old that when I read "Menendez trial" I think of this.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:50 AM on September 5 [30 favorites]


Just wondering, has anyone reported that Chinese officials laughed out loud at the idea that the US would cease to trade with China as a tactic to get China to be harder on North Korea? Because I laughed when I heard about it.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:50 AM on September 5 [12 favorites]


Immigration is basically net zero on job loss/creation - there's some argument as to whether it's a small job creator or a small job loser, since the math is such that it's basically a rounding error. There's nothing wrong with immigration except that if you make it all legal, you lose your reserve labor army that you can underpay and overcharge. Partly, of course, this country likes undocumented labor because undocumented people can be underpaid, but also because they can be screwed on rent, for instance, and can't complain. And of course, can't vote.

It is absolutely a labor issue, but not for the reasons that conservative unions think - it's a labor issue because if immigrants were all able to get papers and citizenship (if they wanted citizenship, of course) it would enormously diminish the power of big business.

Borders are a thing that exists to keep people in while money moves - they exist to give the advantage to money over humans.

There is a Minneapolis march at 4pm starting at 2200 E Franklin today if anyone has the time to go - I imagine that it won't really get marching until 4:30. My guess is that if you were late, you could hear it for a while after it left.
posted by Frowner at 7:52 AM on September 5 [46 favorites]




Greg Sargent: Don’t be fooled by the scam that Trump will pull today on DACA (emphasis in original)
[L]et’s be clear on what this six-month delay actually does and does not do. Because of the logistical realities that attend winding down these protections, announcing this on a “six-month delay” is very likely to be identical in practical terms to announcing it today for a large majority of those 800,000 people. And for that large majority, it means they are losing their protections in the very near future, upending the lives of hundreds of thousands who currently are working or pursuing an education and had hoped to continue making positive contributions to American life.
[...]
David Bier, an immigration policy analyst at the Cato Institute, recently did a study, using administration data, that laid out how DACA status would expire over time for its recipients if Trump ends it. His data show that nearly 600,000 people are set to see their status expire after March 5. Bier emailed me:
About 24 percent of DACA recipients, or 190,00, will be able to renew their permits before March 5. The rest —roughly 595,000, will have their permits expire.
There is another crucial point here, however: For all those people, their status would have expired at the same time even if Trump had not announced this on a six-month delay. If Trump were to cancel DACA today, and specify that people would lose it on a rolling basis upon expiration of their status, all those people’s statuses would have expired on the same date as it will under the “six-month delay” announcement that is coming today, because all of them stand to see their status expire after the six months is up anyway.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:57 AM on September 5 [18 favorites]


It is absolutely a labor issue, but not for the reasons that conservative unions think - it's a labor issue because if immigrants were all able to get papers and citizenship (if they wanted citizenship, of course) it would enormously diminish the power of big business.

Conservatives do not really think that immigrant labor really is a labor problem -- again, it's a mistake to presume that anything that comes out of Republican politician's pie holes represents a good faith argument.

Republicans' corporate and rent-seeker backers absolutely rely on an exploitable labor force -- after all, one obvious counterweight to the demand problem of immigrant labor is to make penalties for employing them high enough as to be no longer profitable, and no Republican pushes that idea very hard.

And let's face it: The real issue here is nativism. As has been the case with every other immigrant group, current immigrants are despised by Republicans because they speak Spanish. That's why they cheer the racist policies of fascists like Joe Arpaio.

The economic argument is just a smokescreen for the racist motivation of immigrant hatred. We shouldn't respect it.
posted by Gelatin at 8:00 AM on September 5 [40 favorites]


Sessions: "I'm here today to announce that the program known as DACA that was initiated by the Obama Administration is being rescinded."
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


The NYT has an explainer up on Trump's DACA decision, and includes this amazing bit buried a ways down:
As late as one hour before the decision was to be announced, administration officials privately expressed concern that Mr. Trump might not fully grasp the details of the steps he was about to take, and when he discovered their full impact, would change his mind, according to a person familiar with their thinking who spoke on condition of anonymity without authorization to comment on it.
This is all I can think of right now. Except, you know, malicious and vindictive.
posted by cjelli at 8:08 AM on September 5 [50 favorites]


How do broken people like Jeff Sessions make it so far as a politician?
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:09 AM on September 5 [5 favorites]


*silently rants against the media for the zillionth time*
posted by Melismata at 8:10 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


The tiki torch reichslarpers must be having a fuckin ball today
posted by theodolite at 8:12 AM on September 5 [14 favorites]


So far, we've had Sessions claim that DACA led to a surge in unaccompanied children at the border (it only applies to those who came before 2007), the importance of the rule of law (Trump don't give a crap about that, see the Arpaio pardon and his efforts to shut down the Russia investigation, among others), and appears to be having the time of his life destroying people's lives right now.

He just walked off without taking any questions or providing any details, such as on how the personal information of DACA recipients will be treated. While he said DHS would have a "wind down" of the program, I didn't even hear him mention six months.
posted by zachlipton at 8:14 AM on September 5 [26 favorites]


How do broken people like Jeff Sessions make it so far as a politician?

Broken people vote.
posted by darkstar at 8:14 AM on September 5 [17 favorites]


Another deeply distressing part of this is that since the DACA recipients had to apply for that status, the government now has a complete list of them and their contact info so it can be easily turned over to ICE and the people who had trusted the Obama administration to do the right thing will now be punished for trying to follow rules and do the right thing themselves.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that all DACA recipient info is already in the hands of CBP and will be used to find and deport them as quickly and cruelly as possible.
posted by sotonohito at 8:17 AM on September 5 [62 favorites]


In ex-Sheriff Clarke news: per Glenn Thrush on Twitter, Clarke is likely joining a pro-Trump PAC after being blocked by Chief of Staff Kelly from a job in the administration (and after resigning from his position as sheriff).
posted by cjelli at 8:17 AM on September 5 [24 favorites]


I admit, I do kinda enjoy how Clarke keeps saying "I'm gonna have this job!" and even the people in this broken-ass administration are all "LOL NOPE".
posted by Etrigan at 8:19 AM on September 5 [18 favorites]


despised by Republicans because they speak Spanish / racist motivation

Or plain old "Not from around here, are yah?" provincialism...

And I mean, under the right circumstances people will discriminate based on eye-color or even T-shirt color, or be cruel just because an authority figure has given them permission to to be cruel.

If it's not race it's language, or nationality, or gender, or the date of Easter or the rightful successor to Mohammed 1400 years ago, or latte-drinking, sushi-eating, and Volvo-driving, or whatever.

I think this tendency of humans to find any excuse to separate in-groups and out-groups is the answer to the question "How do broken people like Jeff Sessions make it so far as a politician?"
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:20 AM on September 5 [21 favorites]


Glenn Thrush, Maggie Haberman, and Julie Hirschfeld of the New York Times: On DACA, President Trump Has No Easy Path
Last week, with a key court deadline looming for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, Mr. Trump, exasperated, asked his aides for “a way out” of a dilemma he created by promising to roll back the program as a presidential candidate, according to two people familiar with the exchange. [...]

Mr. Trump’s staff had always intended to refer the issue to Congress, and Mr. Kelly began discussing the possibility when he was in the cabinet, two senior White House official said. But they never planned to toss what one of the officials described as an unpinned hand grenade at Capitol Hill Republicans quite this soon.

Doing that, however, fits a pattern that Mr. Trump has established in recent months of postponing consequential decisions on contentious topics, like health care reform, leaving it to senior members of his administration or Republican congressional leaders to articulate a final position while seeking to deflect blame for the results.
For. Fuck. Sake. What a chickenshit coward--howling endlessly about "illegal" immigrants, then begging for a way to not have to follow through. Hey Donnie, I have a suggestion, how about leaving the program in place? That's the way out. Tell your pet Confederate elf to STFU and sit the fuck down because the conversation is done.

Furthermore, the regime are saying they think they can get a bill on immigration reform through Congress when apparently McConnell Would Give Trump Silent Treatment To Keep Him On Topic (Esme Cribb of TPM reporting on a pay-walled WSJ article) and their relationship has deteriorated into shouting matches and cursing? Not to mention apparently people close to the situation are worried that Keith Schiller's apparent departure is going to be a big problem: Key Trump Aide’s Departure Rattles President’s Allies (Shannon Pettypiece and Jennifer Jacobs in Bloomberg)
President Donald Trump’s allies are worried that the most damaging of the many recent departures from his White House may be that of Keith Schiller, a little-known former bodyguard who’s one of the president’s closest confidants outside his family.

Schiller is leaving the White House soon to return to the private security business, according to three people familiar with his plans, for a job that will pay far more than his $165,000 government salary. His title, director of Oval Office operations, hardly begins to describe his importance to Trump, who is “crushed” by his planned departure, according to one person close to the president.

Multiple people interviewed described Schiller as an emotional anchor for the president in a White House often marked by turmoil. Schiller has worked for Trump for nearly two decades, and within the West Wing he serves as the president’s protector, gate-keeper and wing man, according to people close to Schiller and Trump. Most of the people requested anonymity to candidly discuss relationships between the president and his aides.
All of this on top of the debt ceiling, hurricane disaster relief/management, CHIP renewal, tax fuckery, healthcare, the budget...There's no stability, and 800,000 people who are doing great things for our shared country are in danger of being harassed and deported. Going to work on some talking points for our legislatures. Citizens must protect the DREAMers, so they can be citizens too.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:21 AM on September 5 [42 favorites]


This will be a crime against humanity.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:21 AM on September 5 [22 favorites]


Some details from DHS on how this will be implemented, via @VivianHYee:
Sessions isn't taking questions, but here are some details from the DHS press call earlier:
1. DHS will process new DACA applications that have been received as of today on a case-by-case basis, but won't take new ones after today.
2. Applications for *renewing* DACA that have been received as of today will be processed as usual.
3. People whose DACA will expire between now and March 5, 2018, can still apply for renewal by Oct. 5. Renewal lasts for 2 years.
4. DHS won't strip DACA status from people who have it right now; they'll keep it for the remainder of their 2-year period.
5. In 2018, 275,344 people are set to have DACA expire. Of those, 7,271 have applied for DACA renewal.
6. From Jan-Aug 2019, DACA will expire for 321,920 people. Of those, 8 have applied for renewal.
7. ICE says they won't target DACA holders; they're still "prioritizing" criminals/people already ordered removed. BUT...
8. ...people who lose DACA will be treated like anyone else in the country illegally — putting them at risk of deportation under Trump.
9. There's lots of concern about ICE using DACA application data—addresses, names, etc—to go after them...
This puts thousands of people who will have their status expire between now in March in the ridiculously impossible decision of deciding whether to renew it in the next month or not.
posted by zachlipton at 8:23 AM on September 5 [47 favorites]


So we know who won the Purge Lottery this past week. Keith Schiller has, indeed, left Trump. Early reports that this might happen surfaced a week ago but hadn't been confirmed until this weekend.

Taking bets on the next to be defenestrated?
posted by darkstar at 8:26 AM on September 5 [4 favorites]


Well. I guess we'll be seeing a lot more asylum seekers entering Canada from the USA in the near future. We've already had thousands enter Canada this year, many of them Haitians after their status was rescinded.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:31 AM on September 5 [4 favorites]


One cannot favorite this comment enough. The reliance on this type of work is modern day indentured servitude. So close to slavery, but since the illegal immigrants are paid and we have our Prison System for the unpaid labor, indentured servitude will suffice.
posted by snwod at 8:31 AM on September 5 [8 favorites]


kelly seems to be doing a bang up job of kicking out/keeping out the really dangerous idiots.

unfortunately, nobody except really dangerous idiots can deal with trump long-term.

this has got to come to a head soon.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:32 AM on September 5 [8 favorites]


>Putin left a reporter’s question on whether he thinks Trump faces impeachment, unanswered. The question followed comments from Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova on a Sunday talk show that “it could be worth remembering” that “not all American presidents have reached the end of their term.”

>The comment marks a significant departure from the positive tone struck by Russian state media and officials leading up to Trump's election last November.


Keep in mind that Putin's overarching goal is not "support Trump!" but rather "weaken and destabilize all of its major opponents".

Supporting Trump during election season was the clearest path towards that goal last year; now the scene has changed, and having the country spend a few years engaged in internecine political wars about whether or not to impeach Trump helps Putin reach the same goal.

Keep that in mind as the investigation on Russian interference in the election moves forward . . .

And keep in mind that Putin isn't Trump's best friend, rather a canny political operator who is looking towards his own survival and political future first, Russia's second, and everyone else's not at all.
posted by flug at 8:34 AM on September 5 [33 favorites]


I admit, I do kinda enjoy how Clarke keeps saying "I'm gonna have this job!" and even the people in this broken-ass administration are all "LOL NOPE".

Gorka/Clarke 2020
Keep nope alive
posted by Room 641-A at 8:35 AM on September 5 [10 favorites]


Current WaPo headline: "Why Trump will likely be watching Sen. Robert Menendez’s corruption trial closely." Yeah, right, I thought all he ever watched was reality shows. For god'ssake, media, I asked you WEEKS ago to stop pretending that he was a real president who should be acting presidential. You're not listening.
posted by Melismata at 8:36 AM on September 5 [4 favorites]


Well it is good news that Schiller is out, this is another non educated close confidant and advisor to the POTUS, and therefore not at all qualified for his job, except in his loyalty to protect the President. Manly looking, empty suit. Apparently 45 loves these.
posted by Oyéah at 8:38 AM on September 5 [2 favorites]


ICE has always been terrible, apparently.

Harry Siegel, Daily Beast: ICE Wrongly Imprisoned an American Citizen for 1,273 Days. Judges Say He’s Owed $0.
A not so fun fact about what Donald Rumsfeld once called “known unknowns”: ICE doesn’t know or won’t say how many American citizens have been arrested and imprisoned by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. It’s illegal for ICE to imprison Americans, but so long as its agents don’t believe you are one, the burden is on you to prove it—without being entitled to a lawyer, since most deportation hearings are civil proceedings.

An NPR analysis this year found 693 citizens have been held in local jails on federal detainer requests since 2007 and 818 more have been imprisoned directly by ICE.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:41 AM on September 5 [61 favorites]


CitizenVox (a branch of Public Citizen): President Trump Inc.: The Report
In this project, Public Citizen inventories the information contained within the three financial disclosure forms (known as the 278e) that Trump has filed since announcing his candidacy for president. The disclosures within these forms do much to exacerbate concerns while doing almost nothing to allay them.

Our report, President Trump Inc., describes in detail, what can and cannot be learned from the disclosures Trump made.
I don't think that there's anything new here, but it's a well-written overview of Trump's odd financial structure and his myriad conflicts of interest, replete with graphs:

Part 2 - An interactive map of Trump's known holdings
Part 3 - A timeline of how those holdings have changed
Part 4 - Raw data & methodology

All of this, of course, would be moot had he simply done what every other President has done and (1) released his tax returns, (2) and divested himself of holdings that presented a potential conflict of interest. Instead, we're getting multi-page explainers following multi-month investigations merely to be able to infer which conflicts of interest he might have (and he certainly has some; the question is really 'which,' not 'if').
posted by cjelli at 8:43 AM on September 5 [13 favorites]


Gorka/Clarke 2020

Gorka is a naturalized citizen and could never be president or VP.
posted by Talez at 8:45 AM on September 5


And here's the first legislative salvo, on the Senate end: Graham, Durbin Introduce Bipartisan Dream Act To Give Immigrant Students A Path To Citizenship
The Dream Act would allow these young people to earn lawful permanent residence and eventually American citizenship if they:

-Are longtime residents who came to the U.S. as children;
-Graduate from high school or obtain a GED;
-Pursue higher education, work lawfully for at least three years, or serve in the military;
-Pass security and law enforcement background checks and pay a reasonable application fee;
-Demonstrate proficiency in the English language and a knowledge of United States history; and
-Have not committed a felony or other serious crimes and do not pose a threat to our country.
They have some draft text up as well, which explicitly calls for data collected in pursuance of the act to be kept confidential and not used for immigration enforcement or removal, and would expand federal grants to stated schools to pay for undocumented students to attend.
posted by cjelli at 8:51 AM on September 5 [61 favorites]


Sure he could, laws don't apply to Republicans.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 AM on September 5 [8 favorites]


It would be cool if we could drop the obsession with speaking English. Last I checked, the US still doesn't have an official language. Also last I checked, most of us speak only one language, unlike the multilingual (and multiculturally fluent) folks who sacrifice comfort and familiarity to come here.
posted by witchen at 8:57 AM on September 5 [40 favorites]


An interactive map of Trump's known holdings

Looks familiar.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:58 AM on September 5


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: John Kelly is running a tight ship
Every few days without fail, in some publication or another, an article appears that runs roughly along the following lines: Previously in the White House, things were in disarray, but now retired general John Kelly is putting an end to all that. To save whoever is next due to write this the trouble of having to go out and get the same quotes all over again, I have gone ahead and written it for him or her. Take the day off, please.

JOHN KELLY IS IMPOSING MILITARY DISCIPLINE, AND THE ALARMING THING YOU DID NOT KNOW WAS HAPPENING BUT THAT APPARENTLY HAPPENED EVERY DAY WILL NOT HAPPEN ANY MORE, PROBABLY (BUT THEN AGAIN IT MIGHT).

Since taking over as chief of staff, retired Marine general John F. Kelly has been taking steps to streamline the flow of communication to the president’s desk. Now, visitors will come to the front door and very soberly hand Donald Trump a printout from a list of real websites, instead of the way Trump used to get his information, from Stephen K. Bannon crawling in through the air vent in his pajamas to rant at length about a creepy dream he had.

General Kelly is in charge, and that will not happen any more.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:03 AM on September 5 [24 favorites]


most of us speak only one language

Or, as in the case of many Republican elected officials, fewer.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:03 AM on September 5 [18 favorites]


hey cjelli - the link you posted to Dick Durbin's press release about his and Graham's Dream act is dated 7.20.17 . . . am I missing something?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:10 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


-Demonstrate proficiency in the English language and a knowledge of United States history; and
-Have not committed a felony or other serious crimes and do not pose a threat to our country.


So when are the Trumps being deported?
posted by dirigibleman at 9:11 AM on September 5 [43 favorites]


ICE has always been terrible, apparently.

I was just wondering about that this morning. There's been a slew of recent stories of ICE being vindictive and cruel and it's usually attributed to being emboldened by the Trump administration and/or authorization from Kelly's time as DHS head. But is that confirmation bias or were they just as bad under Obama? I tend to imagine that if Obama heard stories of ICE waiting outside schools to round up people that he'd put a stop to that shit or somebody would lose their job, but I still wonder how much of this stuff went under the radar and has been happening for years.
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:14 AM on September 5 [9 favorites]


hey cjelli - the link you posted to Dick Durbin's press release about his and Graham's Dream act is dated 7.20.17 . . . am I missing something?

No, you're right -- it was getting linked back out as being newly relevant in a few places, and it was the first I'd seen of it so I presumed it was new; I didn't catch the publication date. Apologies for that.

Still: it did just became a lot more relevant.
posted by cjelli at 9:17 AM on September 5 [2 favorites]



It's the advance parole - the work permit, which can be granted on a "only on a case by case basis," per the statute - that is illegal, not the prioritization of resources for deportation.
posted by jpe at 6:03 AM on September 5
[1 favorite +] [!]


Isn't the application process a case-by-case basis?
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:20 AM on September 5






From the Petri column posted by Johnny Wallflower, above:
The paranoid welter of former reality-TV stars, conspiracy theorists and wicker men full of angry hornets who previously supplied Donald Trump with all his news now are only allowed to communicate with him via Twitter, text or talking to him through the television. But his office door is shut to them.
Heh.
posted by darkstar at 9:29 AM on September 5 [14 favorites]




President Trump now has an official statement out on DACA, if you want to subject yourself to that (he clearly did not write it; I'm guessing Miller did)

From that, 'Trump': 'we will resolve the DACA issue with heart and compassion '
Also 'Trump': 'Before we ask what is fair to illegal immigrants, we must also ask what is fair to American families, students, taxpayers, and jobseekers.'

His awfulness has no limit.
posted by cjelli at 9:32 AM on September 5 [24 favorites]


This Jeff Sessions announcement is straight-up white supremacist insanity.
posted by odinsdream at 9:38 AM on September 5 [45 favorites]


The Gerasimov Doctrine
In February 2013, General Valery Gerasimov — Russia’s chief of the General Staff, comparable to the U.S. chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff—published a 2,000-word article, “The Value of Science is in the Foresight,” in the weekly Russian trade paper Military-Industrial Kurier. Gerasimov took tactics developed by the Soviets, blended them with strategic military thinking about total war, and laid out a new theory of modern warfare — one that looks more like hacking an enemy’s society than attacking it head-on. He wrote: “The very ‘rules of war’ have changed. The role of nonmilitary means of achieving political and strategic goals has grown, and, in many cases, they have exceeded the power of force of weapons in their effectiveness … All this is supplemented by military means of a concealed character.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:47 AM on September 5 [13 favorites]


Now we must dwarf what we did to protect the ACA.

Saturday Protestor == Sunshine Patriot
posted by perspicio at 9:52 AM on September 5 [7 favorites]


There's been a slew of recent stories of ICE being vindictive and cruel and it's usually attributed to being emboldened by the Trump administration and/or authorization from Kelly's time as DHS head. But is that confirmation bias or were they just as bad under Obama?

Here's about an hour of absolutely horrifying reporting by On The Media from 2014 about rights abuses and suspension of rule of law at the border.
posted by contraption at 9:54 AM on September 5 [9 favorites]


This is an administration defined solely by its depravity, any claims to the contrary are lies that further demonstrate their bad faith and corruption.
posted by strange chain at 9:58 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


Here are some talking points to use when writing, calling, and faxing your legislators. Useful targets for action are your House Representative, Senators, the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Boarder Security and Immigration, and the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration and Boarder Security. If your Representative or Senators are on one of these committees make sure to call them!

Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Boarder Security and Immigration:
  • Majority Office phone number: 202-224-7840
  • Minority Office phone number: 202-224-6991
Committee members:
  • Republicans
    • Chair John Cornyn (R-TX)
    • John Kennedy (R-LA)
    • Charles Grassley (R-IA)
    • Ted Cruz (R-TX)
    • Mike Crapo (R-ID)
    • Jeff Flake (R-AZ)
    • Mike Lee (R-UT)
  • Democrats
    • Ranking Member Dick Durbin (D-IL)
    • Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
    • Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
    • Al Franken (D-MN)
    • Richard Blumenthal (D-CT)
    • Maize Hirono (D-HI)

House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration and Boarder Security
:
  • Republicans
    • Chair Raúl Labrador (ID-01)
    • Jim Sensenbrenner (WI-05)
    • Lamar Smith (TX-21)
    • Steve King (IA-04)
    • Jim Jordan (OH-04)
    • Ken Buck (CO-04)
    • Mike Johnson (LA-04)
    • Andy Biggs (AZ-05)
  • Democrats
    • Ranking Member Zoe Lofgren (CA-19)
    • Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
    • Pramila Jayapal (WA-07)
    • Sheila Jackson Lee (TX-18)
    • David Cicilline (RI-01)
Now to the talking points.
[Congresscritter So-and-so],

I support the Deferred Action for Children Arrivals (DACA) policy whole-heartedly. I am furious, appalled, and disgusted by Donald Trump's cowardly decision to end the program. There is no good reason to end the program, only the hateful white supremacy of the traitor Jefferson Davis and his scions. [Optional--As a member of the Subcommittee on Boarder Security and Immigration, you have a great deal of power to aid immigrants and strengthen our society through their incorporation and recognition.]

I support DACA and DREAMers because:

* It would be inhumanely cruel to deport people who have grown up in the United States to a country they have never lived in. The USA is their home, and they should not be forced out!

* It is wrong to punish a person for the decisions that their parents made when said person was a child.

* Many DACA participants came here seeking better economic opportunities or fleeing political violence. I want them to be able to continue the lives they have built here because of DACA!

* These people are contributing to our economy. They are hardworking people who, in many cases, have overcome to hardship to be successful. These people are industrious and resilient, and I want them here!

* The United States needs immigrants to move here--we need to welcome these hard-working immigrants.

* People are NOT illegal.

In response to Trump and Sessions' cruelty, I expect that you will vote for comprehensive immigration that does not cut legal immigration, protects people here under DACA, and expands and eases the path to citizenship for the hardworking people who take enormous risks to join our society.

[For Republicans or recalcitrant Democrats: If you fail to support human, comprehensive immigration reform, your name and face will be synonymous with images of honor students being forcibly torn from class, families ripped apart, and people killed by violence when they are forced to return to unstable places. I will make sure that you, [their name], are known for the cruelty and degradation that Donald Trump and Jefferson Sessions are planning to inflict upon immigrants.]

[For supportive Democrats: Thank you for supporting comprehensive immigration reform and protection for immigrants. Immigrants strength our society, and we must protect them as they are already a valuable part of our society. Protecting immigrants is standing up for human rights!]

Sincerely,
[Your Name]
Sincerely,
These aren't perfect talking points--I'm sure there's a lot I am missing, but I hope these points can be useful. Let's get to making contacts--we have to have the backs of immigrants in our society because it is their society too.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:59 AM on September 5 [117 favorites]


Quick update/encouragement for others: I tried the Resistbot for the first time today and found it pretty unwieldy and unsatisfying (one of my reps didn't have an active fax, so it just guided me through emailing, which I could have done on my own...). So I encourage people to call their reps if they can feel comfortable enough to do so--or send a postcard if not--and use one of the helpful scripts found here. Good luck to us all!
posted by TwoStride at 10:05 AM on September 5


Well, on the bright side this will hopefully kick congress in the ass and make them tackle immigration reform.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:08 AM on September 5


And then every Republican who voted for it is primaried on the basis of having voted for "amnesty" for illegal immigrants.

The Republican's vaunted lockstep is becoming irrelevant under the onslaught of tiny-handed normskrieg. Vote party line and still get primaried by crazier-than-thou. Just takes money.
posted by petebest at 10:11 AM on September 5


A thing that I learned recently, from what I consider to be a reliable source, is that there's software that congresspeople and senators use to track constituent contact, and it doesn't differentiate between voicemail and phone calls. So if you're more comfortable leaving a message than talking with a staffer, it's fine to call after business hours. Just make sure that you leave your name and address, so they know you're a constituent.

The other thing I learned is that the software flags frequent callers, and they often get ignored, so you probably shouldn't call more than about once a week.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:11 AM on September 5 [12 favorites]


Well, on the bright side this will hopefully kick congress in the ass and make them tackle immigration reform.

But Congress doesn't want to touch it with a 40 foot barge pole.

The biggest problem is the House. The Freedom Caucus is setting up for any showdown on Ryan's speakership should he deviate from the orthodoxy. They could possibly circulate a discharge petition to force it to the floor with moderate R help but still, you need 12 senators to override Senator Shitsain* filibustering the bill and you're not going to find them.

* Cruz, Rubio, Paul, McConnell, Cotton; take your pick, they'd all do it.
posted by Talez at 10:16 AM on September 5 [2 favorites]


Is there any way at all we an attach a DACA preservation bill to Hurricane Harvey (and oh god, possibly Irma) relief? (I say this not bc I think it will be a poison pill, but because somehow I still believe this will work, bc some Republicans don't want to do this and it will give them cover and because nobody could possibly try to stop it? Right? Please?)

This might be a stupid question -- I imagine not having control of Congress severely limits things. But I keep hearing that individual Senators have a stupid amount of power. Can the MeFites who are more knowledgeable than I chime in?

I know I might be grasping at straws. I just...I don't know what to do.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:18 AM on September 5 [3 favorites]


Two CHRLA sponsored events in LA this evening:

National DACA Mobilization Day rally at 5 p.m.
UndocuMedia, CHIRLA and the CA Dream Network will be holding a rally at Placita Olvera in downtown Los Angeles at 5 p.m.

Placita Olvera is located at 845 N Alameda Street in downtown Los Angeles.

DACA Healing Circle (for DACA recipients only) at 7 p.m.

CHIRLA will be holding a safe space for DACA recipients tonight at their L.A. offices to "lift up the spirits of individuals who have been affected by the decisions and treatment towards immigrant communities by this administration, provide an immediate safe space for those seeking companionship amongst those directly affected and encourage individuals to take part in support activities, conversations, and testimonies." This event is only open to DACA recipients and will run from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m.

CHIRLA is located at 2533 W. Third Street in the Westlake neighborhood.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:26 AM on September 5 [8 favorites]


They could possibly circulate a discharge petition to force it to the floor with moderate R help but still, you need 12 senators to override Senator Shitsain* filibustering the bill

It's worse than that, you need McConnell to affirmatively bring a DACA fix bill to the floor in the Senate unless it's attached to the debt ceiling or budget or something. McConnell can block DACA by himself, there's no equivalent to the long-shot discharge petition in the Senate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:27 AM on September 5 [4 favorites]


I keep thinking about Frowner's recent post (that I can't find on my phone): this is evil. This man is evil. The things he's doing are evil. And Frowner is right, even being in proximity to this kind of evil is...contaminating.

I don't know what to do. I'm in NY; all of my representatives are pretty well convinced. I can call and ask them to blow up the Senate until evil is rolled back a bit, and that's what I'll do. I'll show up at a protest later today. I'll contact my city council dude and ask what they're doing for Dreamers in my city. I'm sure all of that will give me more to do.

I just...fuck.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:27 AM on September 5 [38 favorites]


Trump retweeted from The Trump Train‏ @The_Trump_Train:

Make no mistake, we are going to put the interest of AMERICAN CITIZENS FIRST! The forgotten men & women will no longer be forgotten.

Seriously, fuck this guy.

I just emailed the admin of the college where I work and asked what they are going to do to support students who might be DACA beneficiaries.
posted by dhens at 10:28 AM on September 5 [23 favorites]


I just emailed the admin of the college where I work and asked what they are going to do to support students who might be DACA beneficiaries.
This is a question that everyone in education needs to ask. And honestly, I think we also need to be discussing this outside of official channels, in case we need to go beyond what the administration is willing or legally able to do.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:30 AM on September 5 [15 favorites]


Trump Wishes Dreamers Luck as He Tosses Them Out of the Plane (Josh Marshall, TPM)
What Trump is actually doing is designed not to get a good outcome but rather to avoid blame for a bad outcome. That’s a major difference. Indeed, the way he’s going about it makes getting a legislative fix much harder. Now Democrats will rightly see any negotiations with the President on this front as negotiation with a bad actor. It’s not much better for the GOP. The real legislative problem here is on the Republican side. This triggers as significant intra-party fight under duress. No Republican leaders can be happy about that. Let’s hope they can make something happen. But the President’s approach is designed to make such an effort fail.
Another instance of The Jackass trying to save his own bacon by screwing over people he "works" over with.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:31 AM on September 5 [35 favorites]


It's lunchtime. Bacon Cheeseburger press conference!
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:38 AM on September 5


Our university president sent a message over the weekend, in advance of the decision, that I find heartening:
Dear ASU Community:

Whatever decision the President makes regarding DACA, these are the basic principles that we have and will continue to follow.

We are committed to the success of all of our students and in particular our students from high schools in Arizona.

DACA students at ASU are young adults who have graduated from an Arizona high school who meet our admission requirements. We are mandated to educate all Arizona students at a cost as close to free as possible. We do this.

When the Arizona Constitution was ratified, there was no mandate to draw distinctions between students or to do anything other than please educate “all the children of the state.” At the time much of the state was made up of immigrants (of all classifications) and bi-nationals, Mexican Americans reflecting their new national home after the war between the US and Mexico. In fact, a close read of history, and the Arizona constitution, shows Arizona’s founders clearly intended that we just get everybody educated.

This is in fact what we intend to do. We are going to educate students from Arizona and in doing so we will follow the law, however that is expressed. We will at the same time, within the law, do everything we possibly can do to help young people move their lives forward – regardless of the circumstances that brought them to this country.

In any event, all of this is rather easy at the end of the day. Care for children, show them love and respect, prepare them for the future and help them start their lives. If we can do that, then we will have done our part for tomorrow to be a better day.

We will have more to say after the President announces his decision.
posted by Superplin at 10:38 AM on September 5 [79 favorites]


What Trump is actually doing is designed not to get a good outcome but rather to avoid blame for a bad outcome. That’s a major difference. Indeed, the way he’s going about it makes getting a legislative fix much harder.

I'm rarely going to cite Marco Rubio as a voice of reason, but to quote from a statement he put out earlier today:
Congress now has less than six months to deal with this the right way, through the legislative process. It is important that the White House clearly outline what kind of legislation the president is willing to sign. We have no time to waste on ideas that do not have the votes to pass or that the president won’t sign.
That's exactly correct. If you read over the President's statement on DACA, also released today, he calls on Congress 'to act' without actually calling for any specific action on DACA: he calls for 'immigration reform,' cites the RAISE Act, talks about 'green card reform,' but doesn't actually ever say what he wants Congress to do about DACA. Should everyone covered by DACA be covered by an equivalent piece of legislation? Should legislation cover more people? Fewer? Different standards? What? He talks about 'heart and compassion,' but does not -- perhaps cannot -- articulate what legislation that stemmed from heart and compassion would look like.

Trump is passing the buck to Congress; yet it's also Trump who, ultimately, would have to sign into law whatever Congress does -- if Congress does do anything. And so: what does Trump think Congress should do?
posted by cjelli at 10:42 AM on September 5 [29 favorites]


Just heard some right-wing hack on NPR crying crocodile tears for the poor immigrants who have waited and are waiting in line for their green cards. I screamed at the radio for the host to ask her if they are so concerned about them, why the GOP was trying to cut those people out, too.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:43 AM on September 5 [15 favorites]


what does Trump think Congress should do?

Trump thinks Congress (and everyone else) should stop bothering him so he can go play golf.
posted by Melismata at 10:46 AM on September 5 [21 favorites]


Senator Portman's office idiots are impressively brainwashed as I just learned from today's round of call-making. Their stance today: well it only happened an hour ago so how could he possibly have an opinion about it? Eyes. So. Rolled. Waiting to see how much cash it'll take to buy his relevant vote this time. Kaptur and Sherrod Brown are, of course, on the Side of Good.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 10:47 AM on September 5 [4 favorites]


Just as with taxes, when the Republicans talk immigration "reform" they mean "cuts".

When they say they support legal immigration they're simply lying. They want a Fortress America with all the borders 100% closed (well, to poor people anyway, rich people are always welcome to come or go).
posted by sotonohito at 10:47 AM on September 5 [6 favorites]


Trump's law: Anything destructive that the president can unilaterally do, Trump will do.

Coming up next: leaving NAFTA, bombing N. Korea.
posted by Omon Ra at 10:49 AM on September 5 [4 favorites]


Trump thinks Congress (and everyone else) should stop bothering him so he can go play golf.

Very easily arranged.

I hereby resign the office of the President of the United States.
posted by Devonian at 10:54 AM on September 5 [17 favorites]


And so: what does Trump think Congress should do?
posted by cjelli at 10:42 AM on September 5 [1 favorite +] [!]


The problem is that Trump is unwilling to exert the intellectual effort it would take to understand the problem in enough depth to make a recommendation. We have a lazy, greedy, narcissistic man-child as President*, and no Republican, especially the gormless Marco Rubio, is going to admit it in public.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:56 AM on September 5 [17 favorites]


Sarah Sanders is so busy telling us how terrible President Obama was, she said "President Obama" when she meant "President Trump" and had to be corrected that President Obama did not just end DACA.
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 AM on September 5 [38 favorites]


had to be corrected that President Obama did not just end DACA.

Um, like how President Obama failed to act during Katrina?
posted by TwoStride at 11:00 AM on September 5 [10 favorites]


Meanwhile, Rep. Steve King wets the bed as usual: (RWW, reporting on Breitbart)

I’m making this point that if we shut off the DACA program, and there are 800,000 of them in the United States today, they would deploy—and I use that word that way—back to their home territories, most likely. And they would go back there with a U.S. taxpayer-funded education, many of them the college education, they will have top-notch English skills, they would understand how a free-enterprise economy works, how a generally corrupt-free society, first world works. They would have seen the transportation system we have, the educational system, the research and development systems that we have, how a civilized people interact with each other. All of that would go with them back to their home countries, and wouldn’t that be the best economic and cultural development, civilizational development that, say, Mexico could ever experience?
posted by delfin at 11:02 AM on September 5 [16 favorites]


His base already thinks 9/11, the '08 financial crisis, and Katrina were all Obama's fault. This isn't a big stretch from there.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:03 AM on September 5 [3 favorites]




It's clear that the administration recognizes that its head has no talent for or interest in the details to fix the problem DACA solved, and so is kicking it to Congress, at the same time it whips it for being incompetent to fix it. It's an M. C. Escher-style logical structure. They excoriate Obama for signing DACA into effect, neglecting to mention it was Congress's incompetence/cowardice that forced his hand in the first place.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:04 AM on September 5 [2 favorites]


how a civilized people interact with each other.

Jesus wept. Fuck you in the eye, Steve King.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:04 AM on September 5 [75 favorites]


If only the President had some kind of power to, i dunno, pardon those who who were technically in violation of some law or other but who hadn't done any harm and were actually of benefit to the nation.

That would be great.
posted by allthinky at 11:05 AM on September 5 [27 favorites]


His base already thinks 9/11, the '08 financial crisis, and Katrina were all Obama's fault. This isn't a big stretch from there.

also: vietnam, the russian revolution, the american civil war, and the film ishtar
posted by entropicamericana at 11:09 AM on September 5 [12 favorites]


Oh, also. This nasty bit of pig-ignorant exceptionalism:
They would have seen the transportation system we have...

...this drives me crazy. Of all the places I've lived in my adult life, American cities rank near the bottom in ease of getting around and getting between, particularly if you interpret "transportation system" to mean what it sure as shit prima facie appears to. Fuck you even more, Steve King.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:09 AM on September 5 [51 favorites]


You'd almost think Steve King was a white supremacist or something.
posted by diogenes at 11:12 AM on September 5 [91 favorites]


Okay go with me here:

The Tremendous Act

Whereas America is just the best country, really, the best absolutely. We're going to kick out the bad hombres right now, and make sure everyone gets the coverage they need way better than Obama. I hereby resign the office of the President of the United States.

The electoral college win, against all odds okay, was the hugest in history by a very very wide margin.

____________________ (Signature)
posted by petebest at 11:13 AM on September 5 [47 favorites]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

Monsters.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:14 AM on September 5 [45 favorites]


Sanders has now repeatedly said that members of Congress should act or "get out of the way and let someone else" do immigration reform. Which, as a talking point, is either calling on her own party to go, or is calling for the institution of another form of government.

Meanwhile, there's talk in Congress that they might just try to tie to the debt ceiling to Harvey relief and throw both on the floor this week, which seems like a great way to start a total civil war in the GOP caucus.
posted by zachlipton at 11:15 AM on September 5 [16 favorites]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

Was that a Pontius Pilate quote?
posted by petebest at 11:16 AM on September 5 [70 favorites]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

Monsters.


It's like they think if they just reword "I was just following orders" we'll all be fooled.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:17 AM on September 5 [88 favorites]


Sanders has now repeatedly said that members of Congress should act or "get out of the way and let someone else" do immigration reform.

You know, "someone else". Like, say, the chief executive. Who claimed absolute authority over immigration a few months back.
posted by Etrigan at 11:18 AM on September 5 [19 favorites]


Was that a Pontius Pilate quote?

Pilate at Nuremberg, maybe.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:19 AM on September 5 [24 favorites]


You know, "someone else". Like, say, the chief executive.

Yeah, that's what she's talking about. The separation of powers is just so annoying and inconvenient when you're trying to create a fascist dictatorship.
posted by diogenes at 11:20 AM on September 5 [4 favorites]


Continuing the tradition of creating straw men to argue with, Sarah Hucksterbee Sanders says they've talked with both sides, the other side being described as "those who want to keep the situation the way it is." No one wants DACA, not even the DACA people. They want a permanent status, which DACA doesn't provide. Assholes.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:20 AM on September 5 [14 favorites]


>they would understand... how a generally corrupt-free society, first world works.

I don't even have the heart to laugh at this. I do not have it in me.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:21 AM on September 5 [17 favorites]


...they would understand how a free-enterprise economy works, how a generally corrupt-free society, first world works.

Well, they would understand how easily such a society fails when people of bad faith like Steve King and Donald Trump are given responsibility for it.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:24 AM on September 5 [4 favorites]


You know, "someone else". Like, say, the chief executive. Who claimed absolute authority over immigration a few months back.

So the administration's position is: we're revoking DACA not because it's a bad system but because the president doesn't have to power to set up that system on his own, but also the people it helped are bad and stole jobs from Americans, and if Congress doesn't put together a bill to fix the mess that revoking DACA creates the president will have to act on his own to set up some kind of new system?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:24 AM on September 5 [3 favorites]


what does Trump think Congress should do?

Stop looking into Russian ties to his campaign and election interference. But good luck with that.

Politico: Russia Probes Kick Into High Gear. Three congressional committees are pursuing investigations, and high-ranking Trump associates are expected to testify soon.
In the coming weeks, both intelligence committees are expected to conduct closed-door interviews with high-ranking members of the Trump campaign, and potential witnesses could include Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort and Donald Trump Jr.{...}

The return of the congressional Russia probes also means the return of a phenomenon that has reportedly enraged Trump and caused him to lash out at GOP leaders: constant headlines about the latest incremental developments in these sprawling and unwieldy investigations.

There will be the daily, sometimes hourly, leaks about new witnesses, new lines of inquiry. There will be ominous cable news footage of lawmakers and witnesses disappearing into classified briefing rooms. And there will be grandstanding and bickering among members of Congress in both parties, many of them trying to capitalize on the Russia investigations to further their own political ambitions.
And of course the Kremlin will be happy to throw fuel on that fire, if only to maximize chaos in US politics.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:25 AM on September 5 [33 favorites]


From that piece by Rep. Steve King: All of that would go with them back to their home countries,

They are already in their home country: they are Americans; they are in America. Home is where you make it, and they've made their lives here. That is the crux of the issue: people matter, not papers. Where the law is unjust, we need to change the law rather than enforce it unjustly.

In conclusion, Rep. Steve King is a terribly implausible simulacra of a human being; or, depending on your views, he's an accurate model of the worst of humanity.
posted by cjelli at 11:29 AM on September 5 [73 favorites]


This may have been posted already but I'm just now getting around to watching it. This may be the purest exercise of narcissism I've ever seen. Trump is literally prodding these people to praise him, one after the other. And a roomfull of alleged men & women of God bow down to his graven image to give him the drug that sustains him. Unspeakably vile. Watch as Trump Calls On A Bunch of Religious Leaders to Thank Him For His Harvey Efforts.
posted by scalefree at 11:33 AM on September 5 [10 favorites]


Steve King, I live in your district, you have fucking ZERO ground to stand on talking up transportation systems because ours suck here and your buddies at the state level are gutting the education system.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:35 AM on September 5 [10 favorites]


And keep in mind that Putin isn't Trump's best friend, rather a canny political operator who is looking towards his own survival and political future first, Russia's second, and everyone else's not at all.

Can we do away with the notion that he's so canny?

If he were, he never would have lost Ukraine.
posted by ocschwar at 11:41 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

That no one in the press said loudly and clearly that Jim Crow was once law is the latest in a series of appalling derelictions of their duty to the country.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:41 AM on September 5 [108 favorites]


Can we do away with the notion that he's so canny?

In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
posted by contraption at 11:43 AM on September 5 [1 favorite]


Boston MeFites: The MIRA Coalition is holding a rally tonight at the State House. I know MIRA through my AmeriCorps Service Year. They are a legit organization who do important work.

Tomorrow night, Centro Presente is holding a vigil for DACA at the State House. I'm less familiar with Centro Presente but they seem to do good work.

If you're in college, if you work at a college, or if you're an alumni, call your school and ask them what they're doing to protect Dreamers enrolled at the school. I've seen a few of my Twitter friends calling their schools, and this seems like a good effort if you've already called your reps.
posted by pxe2000 at 11:45 AM on September 5 [9 favorites]


There's another DACA rally planned for Boston Common on Sept. 16.
posted by adamg at 11:48 AM on September 5 [7 favorites]


In conclusion, Rep. Steve King is a terribly implausible simulacra of a human being; or, depending on your views, he's an accurate model of the worst of humanity.

He has been a Republican for his entire period in office, spewing vile bigotry, and the Republicans have never ejected him, never censured him, never rejected him.

He is the perfect example of why the Republicans will never do the same with Trump.

That party is not worth saving.
posted by anem0ne at 11:50 AM on September 5 [48 favorites]


Here's the best response to yesterday's linked "Are Baby Boomers A ‘Generation Of Sociopaths’?"...

The generation game
Despite the evidence that it makes no sense, typecasting generations is more popular than ever


The worst thing you can say about the Boomer generation is it gave us Donald Trump and never thought to have him thrown in jail or exiled to Siberia.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:54 AM on September 5 [6 favorites]


President Obama's statement:
Ultimately, this is about basic decency. This is about whether we are a people who kick hopeful young strivers out of America, or whether we treat them the way we’d want our own kids to be treated. It’s about who we are as a people – and who we want to be.

What makes us American is not a question of what we look like, or where our names come from, or the way we pray. What makes us American is our fidelity to a set of ideals – that all of us are created equal; that all of us deserve the chance to make of our lives what we will; that all of us share an obligation to stand up, speak out, and secure our most cherished values for the next generation. That’s how America has traveled this far. That’s how, if we keep at it, we will ultimately reach that more perfect union.
posted by zachlipton at 11:54 AM on September 5 [105 favorites]


So at this moment, Trump is calling on Congress, the same Congress that just failed to pass a health care bill that a majority has made the heart of their campaign promises for the past seven years, to rewrite the tax code and rewrite the immigration system at the same time it has to raise the debit ceiling, keep the government from shutting down, reauthorize CHIP, reauthorize the FAA, fund Harvey relief, quite possibly fund Irma relief, reauthorize the flood insurance program, and they're still talking about a bipartisan effort to fund the CSRs. How the hell is any of this supposed to happen?

One of the striking things here is the total abdication of leadership from the White House on any of these issues. For tax cuts, Gary Cohn wrote a few bullet points on a napkin, but now the President is mad at him. For immigration, their entire story is just "Congress needs to act." These are not serious people and they have zero interest or ability in actually doing the work of governing. I'm taking about basic stuff like putting forward policy proposals, working with key members of Congress to get them on board, and doing public events where you tout the benefits of your policy to build support. No, that all sounds like hard work, so these ignorant fucknuts just set a time bomb instead and declare that a demonstrably incompetent Congress should figure it out themselves. For people who profess to care so much about the rule of law, they sure as hell show zero interest in helping to write some.
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on September 5 [70 favorites]


Trump is literally prodding these people to praise him, one after the other.

The worst part is that at first I was sure which example you were taking about.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:59 AM on September 5 [5 favorites]


Apropos of nothing: many Doonesbury comics about Trump have been meh lately, but Sunday's was right on.
posted by Melismata at 11:59 AM on September 5 [10 favorites]


He has been a Republican for his entire period in office, spewing vile bigotry, and the Republicans have never ejected him, never censured him, never rejected him.

They all trekked to his district in 2012 and in 2016 to receive his racist blessing. They didn't just never reject him, every Republican Presidential nominee bent over backwards to kiss his ass in public and signal how much they approved of his racist agenda.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:00 PM on September 5 [28 favorites]


For a second there I considered that maybe 45 was dumping all this shit on Congress at once in the hopes of making them too busy to continue the Russia administration. It's just dumb enough to fit his patterns.

But then I remembered that would mean 45 has an actual goal and a strategy in mind and there's not much evidence to support he can do that sort of thing.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:02 PM on September 5 [6 favorites]


i can't believe the "laws" of "society" prevent me from setting as many fires as need to be set
posted by poffin boffin at 12:04 PM on September 5 [41 favorites]


These are not serious people and they have zero interest or ability in actually doing the work of governing. I'm taking about basic stuff like putting forward policy proposals, working with key members of Congress to get them on board, and doing public events where you tout the benefits of your policy to build support.

All part of the long game. Once government no longer functions and the society itself crumbles, the cyberpunk megacorps step in to provide basic services, and (not to mix my genres here) at the end we will lay our freedom at their feet, and we will say to them, "Make us your slaves, but feed us."
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 12:17 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


Apropos of nothing: many Doonesbury comics about Trump have been meh lately, but Sunday's was right on.

https://twitter.com/RealRBHJr
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:22 PM on September 5 [6 favorites]


and declare that a demonstrably incompetent Congress should figure it out themselves.

Well, that part's right...
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on September 5


These are not serious people and they have zero interest or ability in actually doing the work of governing. I'm taking about basic stuff like putting forward policy proposals, working with key members of Congress to get them on board, and doing public events where you tout the benefits of your policy to build support.

All part of the long game.


Any time you find yourself talking about Trump and using the term "long game," remind yourself that by the time he reaches the end of most compound sentences he's already forgotten the beginning of them.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:26 PM on September 5 [62 favorites]


Any time you find yourself talking about Trump and using the term "long game," remind yourself that by the time he reaches the end of most compound sentences he's already forgotten the beginning of them

...and then repeated a superlative phrase, repeated it again, and added "believe me," which indicates he's lying.
posted by Gelatin at 12:31 PM on September 5 [22 favorites]


But then I remembered that would mean 45 has an actual goal and a strategy in mind and there's not much evidence to support he can do that sort of thing.

I've seen this kind of thing in many comments in the mega-threads, and I think it's becoming dangerous. One commentor poured derision over the idea that Trump was capable of atempting to create a distraction by posting controversial tweets, since that is supposedly beyond the capacity of his limited brain. Trump is not that bright, compared to Obama, but he's clearly capable of goal-directed activity.
posted by thelonius at 12:45 PM on September 5 [6 favorites]


He does outsmart Ali G, I'll give him that.

Edit: better link
posted by Rumple at 12:48 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


Louise Linton (Mnunchin's wife) wanted to apologize for her Instagram post...by posing in multiple gowns for the "Balls and Galas" issue of Washington Life magazine. She does at least acknowledge what she's doing: "I see the irony of making an apology in a ball gown," but then launches right into "but it would be dishonest to proclaim that I'm never going to go to another social function." [this is all, very sadly, real]
posted by zachlipton at 12:53 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


He does outsmart Ali G, I'll give him that.

Edit: better link
posted by Rumple at 12:48 PM on September 5 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Takes a grifter to spot a grifter.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:54 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


There are thousands of people who were brought to America as young children, who were given work permits by the Federal Government under DACA, who are employed and contribute to society in general, and whose employers now have to question not only whether they will be in legal jeopardy for employing an unlawful immigrant in March, but whether their employee will be deported in March, and whether they should avoid the problem by replacing their employee as soon as possible. Meanwhile, the immigrants have to fear being sent away from the only home they've ever known, to a country where many of them do not speak the language. It's pure evil.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:54 PM on September 5 [43 favorites]


he's clearly capable of goal-directed activity.

Kinda depends on how you're defining the goal. He's absolutely capable of engaging in activities directed towards his goals of public adulation, obedience, and a cargo cult version of respect. I'm less convinced that he's able to conceive of what it would take to achieve a more complicated goal. That's not to say he hasn't got some people around him who are willing to take that project on, though. He's surrounded himself with some pretty stupid people, but some of their goals, such as "break everything" and "create chaos" don't really take genius to carry out.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:55 PM on September 5 [10 favorites]


The Trump administration has said definitively that DACA is unconstitutional, but not so unconstitutional that they can't keep it going for six months in the interests of human decency. If six months is acceptable, why not sixteen months, when we might have a Congress more capable of passing a humane law to replace it? Why not maintain the policy indefinitely until it is ruled unconstitutional, or Congress passes a law forbidding it or replacing it? (It is because the Trump administration consists of terrible people!)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:58 PM on September 5 [25 favorites]


The Trump administration has said definitively that DACA is unconstitutional, but not so unconstitutional that they can't keep it going for six months

Uh huh. If they were so sure about that, they could have let Texas' lawsuit against it go forward, confident in the SCOTUS to rule in their favor. The fact that they wouldn't shows how hollow they believe that argument is.
posted by Gelatin at 1:03 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


Sorry if there's a better open thread to put this in -- I've fallen behind on my MeFi-ing over the past few days:

Gen. Robert E. Lee descendant leaves pulpit after backlash
"A faction of church members were concerned about my speech and that I lifted up Black Lives Matter movement, the Women's March, and Heather Heyer as examples of racial justice work," his resignation statement said. "I want to stress that there were many in the congregation who supported my right to free speech, yet were uncomfortable with the attention the church was receiving. [...]

"I want to especially challenge white Christians in America to take seriously the deadly legacy of slavery in our country and commit ourselves to follow Jesus into a time of deep reflection, repentance and reconciliation," he wrote in his statement.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:11 PM on September 5 [91 favorites]


The Independent: Russian politician says 'let's hit Trump with our Kompromat' on state TV
A Russian politician has threatened to "hit Donald Trump with our Kompromat" on state TV.

Speaking on Russia-24, Nikita Isaev, leader of the far-right New Russia Movement, said the compromising material should be released in retaliation over the closure of several Russian diplomatic compounds across the US.

When asked whether Russia has such material, Mr Isaev, who is also director of the Russian Institute of Contemporary Economics, replied: "Of course we have it!"
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on September 5 [61 favorites]


ohpleaseohpleaseohplease
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:17 PM on September 5 [24 favorites]


"I see the irony of making an apology in a ball gown,"


That's not just irony I'm seeing...
posted by darkstar at 1:17 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


Sarah Huckabee Sanders was asked what the status of more than 300 DREAMers currently serving in the military will be if Congress doesn't act, and her response was that Congress is totally capable of acting and they should do so, which does not seem like much of an answer to me.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:18 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the vids of pee.
posted by Behemoth at 1:19 PM on September 5 [28 favorites]


Gee, maybe she doesn't know what she's doing either, imagine that.
posted by Melismata at 1:19 PM on September 5 [12 favorites]


Gen. Robert E. Lee descendant leaves pulpit after backlash

He (Robert W. Lee IV) gave a heartfelt interview on NPR a few weeks ago; one of the things he kept bringing up in that interview (that I see he's continued to touch on in his resignation statement) is that he's very keenly aware of the tension of leveraging the added weight his ancestry lends to his statements without letting it become a perpetuation of the kind of privilege he's speaking out against --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: When you look around right now and you see how much consternation there is over this and the conversations that are happening around the country, why do you think it's important for you, as a descendant of Robert E. Lee, to speak out?

LEE IV: You know, that's a question I wrestle with all the time. You know, you could have a person of color on here as easily as you could have a descendant of Robert E. Lee. But I just got an email from a lady who spoke to me about being owned by my family and how her ancestors were owned by my family and what that meant for her and what that means for her now to hear someone speak out against it in the name of the Lees.

And I hear that, and I think to myself, gosh, if one person's opinion means that they have a different perception of what God is doing in this world to reconcile the world to God's self, then I'm doing it right. And if that means that I can redeem some of the past with my namesake, then I'm willing to do it. But I'm also trying to bring other people along with me and to say that this conversation is not about me, but I'm going to use whatever namesake I have to fight this.
posted by cjelli at 1:22 PM on September 5 [141 favorites]


Sarah Huckabee Sanders was asked what the status of more than 300 DREAMers currently serving in the military will be if Congress doesn't act, and her response was that Congress is totally capable of acting and they should do so, which does not seem like much of an answer to me.

'Our captain is fully capable of avoiding a simple iceberg, I don't understand why you keep asking about how many lifeboats we have.'
posted by cjelli at 1:23 PM on September 5 [60 favorites]


Speaking on Russia-24, Nikita Isaev, leader of the far-right New Russia Movement, said the compromising material should be released in retaliation over the closure of several Russian diplomatic compounds across the US.

Despite Raw Story referring to him as a "lawmaker", it doesn't appear that Nikita Isaev has been elected to anything, and nor have any members of his party. I would suggest ignoring this story.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:27 PM on September 5 [7 favorites]


On this day where Trump is setting up a million young people for deportation he was just on camera reading a prepared statement about tax reform. At the end he deviated from the statement and said something along the lines of "and of course when I say tax reform I mean tax cuts". Yeah dude we know but you're not supposed to say it.

Not a big thing given the DACA decision but still a measure of how stupid he is.
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on September 5 [30 favorites]


Trump is not that bright, compared to Obama, but he's clearly capable of goal-directed activity.

He's an instinctual predator, but that doesn't mean he isn't effective.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:35 PM on September 5 [6 favorites]


As an aside there was a pretty spectacular meteor strike in southern British Columbia last night and I, for one, would like to welcome our new alien ant overlords. Given the walking distance resulting from, what I can only guess is a deliberate attempt at misinformation and not an astrophysics calculation error, I await their arrival in D.C. sometime between Canadian Thanksgiving and American Thanksgiving.

Only then will our long [inter]national nightmare be over. Godspeed you little horrors.
posted by mce at 1:37 PM on September 5 [12 favorites]


Takes a grifter to spot a grifter.

Nitpick: Or someone who's been victimized by grifters enough times to finally recognize the common patterns, assuming learning can still happen...

But then I remembered that would mean 45 has an actual goal and a strategy in mind and there's not much evidence to support he can do that sort of thing.


Isn't it just painfully obvious by now Trump isn't ever going to be held to any standards of decency or competence because he really is pretty much a perfect mirror of where American society as a whole is right now? He's *the guy* for the 25--30% who live in and around the boundaries of statistical noise and margin of error. He knows how to work in that cultural space because he's a native, himself little more than a cultural feedback monster, just as fickle, opportunistic, self-serving and amoral as contemporary American society as a whole. He's not being strategic when he sows chaos, he's just tactically creating the kind of chaotic playing field sociopaths/psychopaths are well known to have an instinctive advantage in manipulating for personal gain. It doesn't take strategy to create chaos and then start looking for opportunities to benefit personally from the fallout. Those kinds of moves are tactical and don't take any special genius, just callousness and an exaggerated sense of one's own self righteousness. Even the most dully conventional and incompetent crisis manager in the business world knows how to use these tricks to survive and thrive.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:38 PM on September 5 [20 favorites]


Despite Raw Story referring to him as a "lawmaker", it doesn't appear that Nikita Isaev has been elected to anything, and nor have any members of his party. I would suggest ignoring this story.

Yeah I don't think random Russian politicians would have access to Trump's Kompromat. But the Spectator's Paul Wood says he's been hearing about it from sources he feels are more reliable:
“There are, though, reports of witnesses in the hotel who corroborate Steele’s reporting. These include an American who’s said to have seen a row with the hotel security over whether the hookers would be allowed up to Trump’s suite. The dossier’s account of hookers in a Moscow hotel room was the subject of gossip among politicians and intelligence people for months before it was published.”
[...]
“Now claims are circulating of more tapes showing more extreme behavior. Expect these allegations to emerge in due course,” Wood continued.
(Indirect quote, original behind paywall)
posted by scalefree at 1:38 PM on September 5 [9 favorites]


Matt Shuham (TPM): [Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-IL)] Lashes Out After DACA Move: John Kelly Is ‘A Disgrace To The Uniform
“General Kelly, when he was the head of Homeland Security, lied straight to the faces of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus about preventing the mass deportation of DREAMers,” Gutiérrez wrote in a statement Tuesday. “Now as Chief of Staff, this former general is executing the plan to take away their lifeline and taking steps to criminalize young people who live and work here legally.”

“General Kelly is a hypocrite who is a disgrace to the uniform he used to wear,” he continued. “He has no honor and should be drummed out of the White House along with the white supremacists and those enabling the President’s actions by ‘just following orders.’”
The article contains his entire accurate, courageous, and principled statement.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:52 PM on September 5 [121 favorites]


Whaaa... Diane Feinstein is talking about putting both Harvey relief AND DACA into the debt ceiling bill. I guess she's only garbage on some issues. I knew that but it's still nice to see.
posted by Justinian at 2:09 PM on September 5 [21 favorites]


I'm sure Diane will find a way to disappoint in the end :-/
posted by waitangi at 2:14 PM on September 5 [12 favorites]


Here's some background on Kelly playing Lucy to Clarke's Charlie Brown: Sheriff Clarke Was In Talks for a Trump White House Job—Then John Kelly Killed It.
posted by scalefree at 2:14 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


Vox, Sarah Kliff, This is what Obamacare sabotage looks like, on the failure to promote the ACA. One important issue is that, while outside groups can do a lot on their own, only the government has the list of people who have previously enrolled in plans. That list is incredibly valuable, since people who've previously enrolled are likely to enroll again. Outside groups can raise awareness, but only the government can market specifically to that list.

Lawfare, Benjamin Wittes, How to Read a News Story About an Investigation: Eight Tips on Who Is Saying What. An excellent set of guidelines for untangling sourcing claims in news articles, with helpful tips like:
Dirty little secret: It’s a common tactic for defense lawyers to put material out there in a fashion favorable to their clients and to make sure the sourcing is suggestive of an improper prosecutorial leak—and then complain publicly about prosecutorial leaks. This happens a lot.
Daily Beast, Lachlan/Swin, Sheriff Clarke Was In Talks for a Trump White House Job—Then John Kelly Killed It. I'll just jump to the end:
A political group seeking to draft Clarke into that Senate race has raised nearly $2 million, according to Federal Election Commission records. But Clarke says he has no plans to challenge Baldwin, and has disavowed the group. “It’s a scam PAC, really,” he told a Milwaukee news station in July.

His disinclination to doing so was on full display at the well-attended, cash-bar CPAC party hosted by the aforementioned draft-Clarke PAC. As the event got underway, The Daily Beast saw multiple organizers scrambling to figure out why Clarke was late to arrive. Eventually, the sheriff showed up and muttered a few words before leaving.

The Daily Beast was later told by two people who had run into him earlier that evening that shortly before his brief speech, Clarke had been spotted down at the hotel bar, in full Sheriff gear, holding court with two tall, attractive women.
posted by zachlipton at 2:17 PM on September 5 [17 favorites]


About that kompromat - does anyone think it would actually matter at this point? Short of something that's criminally prosecutable in the US, or something that shows culpability that could kick off a swarm of lawsuits, I can't imagine any personal failing that would actually undermine his authority.

The people supporting him are doing so because it furthers their agenda, not because they believe he's a competent leader.

It would rather be nice to see his hotel income take a solid dive, which might be affected by proof of sleaze, but that wouldn't directly affect his gov't status. I mean, it could kick off another wave of resignations and roadblocks, but it's not like we don't expect those to happen; we just don't know what the next trigger will be.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:18 PM on September 5 [17 favorites]


About that kompromat - does anyone think it would actually matter at this point?

One can only hope that turning him into an international laughingstock would bust his brittle, insecure brain like a cheap piñata.
posted by zarq at 2:21 PM on September 5 [22 favorites]


He's already an international laughingstock and it has accomplished fuckall.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 2:24 PM on September 5 [37 favorites]


About that kompromat - does anyone think it would actually matter at this point?

Pee tape, no. Decades of money laundering or proof of knowing collusion in the election, yes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:25 PM on September 5 [31 favorites]




He's already an international laughingstock and it has accomplished fuckall.

According to Devil's Bargain, Trump and Bannon share a "honey badger" mentality, meaning, among other things, they idealize refusing to stop no matter how dirty they look.
posted by Coventry at 2:32 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]


bust his brittle, insecure brain like a cheap piñata.

I'm a broken record on this I know, but if the diagnosis of malignant narcissism is correct, this is absolutely not going to happen. In that case, he literally cannot personally identify with insecurity and shame, no matter how extreme or public. He'll just burrow even deeper into his narcissism and dissociation from what should be his own natural guilt and healthy shame and project the responsibility for the failures onto others.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:33 PM on September 5 [22 favorites]


Dianne Feinstein. Not Diane.

Spelled like it sounds.
posted by petebest at 2:34 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


Ugh, that old chestnut. Some version of these comes up every now and then--PS, those links are from August and March of this year--and we forget about the near-misses of past geopolitical tension that didn't break out into (world) war. Not saying he's wrong about everything, but on this point:

Because I am old, now 94, I recognise these omens of doom. Chilling signs are everywhere, perhaps the biggest being that the US allows itself to be led by Donald Trump, a man deficient in honour, wisdom and just simple human kindness. It is as foolish for Americans to believe that their generals will save them from Trump as it was for liberal Germans to believe the military would protect the nation from Hitler’s excesses.

We "allow ourselves" to be led by Donald Trump? We "believe our generals will save us from Trump"?? Come tf on, man. We DON'T. But what more are we supposed to be doing?
posted by witchen at 2:34 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


David Frum, who is a horrible person, in The Atlantic: Trump's Impending Immigration Sell-Out

Spoiler: Ending DACA is bad because Trump will be forced to back down and even more immigrants will be allowed into the US.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:38 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


That Frum article is something else: "Today’s quotas for lawful immigration were bequeathed nearly three decades ago—meanwhile stagnating wages for the lower 90 percent of the workforce suggest that the United States is suffering from the most severe labor glut since the Great Depression."

Apparently wages have stagnated because we have too many workers, not because the top 1% has been leeching all the profits.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:44 PM on September 5 [48 favorites]


Pee tape, no. Decades of money laundering or proof of knowing collusion in the election, yes.

CONSPIRACY in the election. Collusion is not a crime. Conspiracy is!
posted by mikelieman at 2:44 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


conspeeracy, iyw
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:45 PM on September 5 [6 favorites]


I've a cousin named Diane, thus my spelling. Maybe I'll use it in the way I call Tomi Lahren Tammy or Tamantha.
posted by waitangi at 2:47 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]


I did say, short of criminal/civil lawsuit activity. If the kompromat could put him as a defendant in a courtroom, whether or not that's a legitimate action to take against a sitting president, then it could actually matter. But there is no amount of shameful activity, or even "criminal in another country" activity, that I think would have any impact beyond adding to the general anarchy and shortening the timeline until President Pence steps in to announce he's going to "bring order out of chaos."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:49 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]


Morning Consult/ Politico poll: 76% say DACA recipients should remain (58% say they should become citizens, 18% that they should get residency). 15% say they should be deported.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:59 PM on September 5 [42 favorites]


When you can't keep the full crazification factor...
posted by phearlez at 3:06 PM on September 5 [24 favorites]


Bruce Bartlett, a former Reagan senior official weighs in on the percentage that are deplorable.

@michaeljhout
Wow. A former Reagan/Bush advisor just posted this on Facebook.. [screenshot]
There is no longer any doubt -- ALL (100%) of Trump supporters are racists. If you don't like it, fuck you.
posted by chris24 at 3:11 PM on September 5 [125 favorites]


That Frum article is something else: "Today’s quotas for lawful immigration were bequeathed nearly three decades ago—meanwhile stagnating wages for the lower 90 percent of the workforce suggest that the United States is suffering from the most severe labor glut since the Great Depression."

Apparently wages have stagnated because we have too many workers, not because the top 1% has been leeching all the profits.


It is actually true that we have too many workers. And you know why? Because monetary policy ensures that we do. It has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with preventing wage increases out of fear of inflation. If the economy gets too 'hot' (ie..labor gets too much power via demand) they raise rates.
posted by srboisvert at 3:21 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


Nice to see Reagan Republicans admit what we've been telling them for over two years, now how about admitting that Clinton was the right choice and campaigning against Republican candidates. You get no credit for the first without following through with the second. Words mean nothing, only actions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:21 PM on September 5 [7 favorites]


Posted last night, and apparently, he's enjoying swatting trolls away in the shitstorm his page has been ever since.
posted by notyou at 3:22 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


Republicans need to understand that if you spend years shitting on the carpet, you are not allowed to complain about the stains. They made this mess and they need to have their noses rubbed in it.
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:25 PM on September 5 [14 favorites]


Nice to see Reagan Republicans admit what we've been telling them for over two years, now how about admitting that Clinton was the right choice and campaigning against Republican candidates. You get no credit for the first without following through with the second. Words mean nothing, only actions.

Bartlett supported Clinton, one of the few who took the NeverTrump stance to its logical conclusion and voted for the only candidate who could stop him.

@BruceBartlett
For the record, I voted enthusiastically for Hillary Clinton today. She may not be perfect, but she's light years better than Trump.
posted by chris24 at 3:25 PM on September 5 [59 favorites]


You lie down with Republicans, you wake up with racists and trolls.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:25 PM on September 5 [10 favorites]


Oh sure. Now's a great time to add repealing Obamacare in the next month to Congress's massive list of stuff they have to get done right now.
posted by zachlipton at 3:26 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]




So, I think it's time to compile a list of companies that rent space in Trump-branded properties.
posted by rhizome at 3:32 PM on September 5 [32 favorites]


@AndrewBeatty
Trump showed a twinge of sensitivity about his decision: "people think in terms of children, but they are really young adults"


@samstein Retweeted Andrew Beatty
So, 39-year-old Don Jr. is a “good boy” but DACA recipients are “really young adults”
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on September 5 [94 favorites]


"Saturday Protestor == Sunshine Patriot"
Please stop eating yourselves.
posted by Pinback at 3:45 PM on September 5 [25 favorites]


Trump showed a twinge of sensitivity about his decision: "people think in terms of children, but they are really young adults"

You think it's bad that black kids are considered adults when they're 12? Apparently Latinx and Hispanic kids can be three years old and be expected to consider immigration laws and refuse to accompany their parents to the United States.
posted by Talez at 3:50 PM on September 5 [54 favorites]


From the face-eating leopards? Eating my face?! file - about Michigan's Iraqi Chaldean community:
Trump and Vice President Mike Pence inspired many Chaldeans to show up at voting booths with unprecedented enthusiasm by promising to protect persecuted Christians in the Middle East. A Chaldean priest publicly blessed Trump while he was on the campaign trail, and conservative Christians praised Trump’s commitment to Christian minorities on Facebook. Few in the community expected that Trump’s immigration crackdown—touted in part as a means to protect the country from radical Islamists—would come to target them...


...Aside from families being torn apart and middle-aged and old men facing what they perceive to be death sentences, Naoum recognizes that Chaldeans in Michigan have been thrust into uncertainty about their deeply held social and political loyalties.

“The community is not going to forget who came to our aid and who didn’t,” he said, referring to the largely silent Michigan Republican establishment. “And we have voting power.”
Long story shorter - In exchange for removing Iraq from the banned countries list in March, the Trump administration got Iraq to agree to more cooperation and speed in the return/repatriation of Iraqis in the United States. And, of course, many of the people facing deportation are from minority groups that will face persecution or worse if they have to return.
posted by nubs at 3:51 PM on September 5 [18 favorites]


> Apparently Latinx and Hispanic kids can be three years old and be expected to consider immigration laws and refuse to accompany their parents to the United States.

Hey, if they can walk on their own, they can walk back over that border.
(But, Representative King, what about the infants?)

Meanwhile, here's Krugman on how ending DACA is a self-inflicted wound for the US on multiple levels: The Very Bad Economics of Killing DACA:

"Trump’s decision to kill DACA ... is, first and foremost, a moral obscenity: throwing out 800,000 young people who are Americans in every way that matters, who have done nothing wrong, basically for racial reasons. ... DACA is very much a boon to the rest of the U.S. population, and killing it will make everyone worse off."
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:56 PM on September 5 [22 favorites]


"Trump’s decision to kill DACA ... is, first and foremost, a moral obscenity: throwing out 800,000 young people who are Americans in every way that matters, who have done nothing wrong, basically for racial reasons. ... DACA is very much a boon to the rest of the U.S. population, and killing it will make everyone worse off."

Which is even more stupid given Trump's propensity for wanting us to achieve 7-8% growth like a developing country. OK. Let's pretend this is achievable. You just contracted the market by 0.3% making your goal even harder. Good work there, shitstain in chief.
posted by Talez at 4:01 PM on September 5 [11 favorites]


"It's not cold-hearted to follow the law." - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

I've got some cold-hearted laws you can follow, fucker.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:06 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


I'm a broken record on this I know, but if the diagnosis of malignant narcissism is correct, this is absolutely not going to happen. In that case, he literally cannot personally identify with insecurity and shame, no matter how extreme or public. He'll just burrow even deeper into his narcissism and dissociation from what should be his own natural guilt and healthy shame and project the responsibility for the failures onto others.

Since we're engaging in rampant speculation, I don't think he's disassociated from reality. Nor do i think he has a problem personally identifying with insecurity and shame. I do think he's colossally insecure about the position he holds and covers for it by desperately attempting to boost his ego at every opportunity.

We can armchair diagnose the man from a distance but the truth of the matter is we honestly can't tell anything for sure other than that he's a raging asshole.
posted by zarq at 4:06 PM on September 5 [12 favorites]


The Justice Department today formally dropped its efforts to defend the overtime rule, keeping the federal threshold a salary too high to be eligible for for overtime pay at just $23,660.

Why denying overtime to millions of workers isn't just one level below ending DACA on the national outrage meter is beyond me.
posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on September 5 [89 favorites]


> So, I think it's time to compile a list of companies that rent space in Trump-branded properties.

And profit-cock block Trump and Trump related globally N. Stephenson "Zodiac" style . Especially his proudest sites/golf-courses.

Which is technically horrible (and ungentlemanly) as it's essentially psychologically tormenting a seriously mentally disturbed and incapacitated senior citizen (#insert Goldwater caveats).


But, srsly, brain punching this particular Nazi [word that is now legal in Aus. and the one I scream endlessly every time I see that CENSORED's face] is stitches in time.

Vox did a follow-up to the previous article with charts Who Trump hurts by ending DACA, explained with a cartoon and 11 charts.

Notably "Almost half of us arrived before our sixth birthday" (not that that or any age should be a cutoff).

This isn't immigration correction, it's forced exile, it's deportation of politically defined "undesirables", it's clearances, and yes: ethnic clensing.

It's also the exact reverse of the American Dream
posted by Buntix at 4:11 PM on September 5 [15 favorites]


Like how a black guy stole their idea for healthcare?

I keep saying this because it's important: no, he didn't.

It's important because assigning any responsibility to the Republican party for the creation of the ACA - even the minor responsibility of the ideas behind it, which were A) not theirs and B) completely dissimilar to what they wanted - concedes the argument that the GOP has some ability to govern in the modern era. They do not. They have not for decades.
posted by mightygodking at 4:20 PM on September 5 [16 favorites]


Total aside: I hate the Vox minecraft-person comics. hate hate hate them. the colors are somehow aggressively boring and the "pixel" aesthetic is also done wrong.

ugh
posted by cybertaur1 at 4:21 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]


ed: "This isn't immigration correction"

(addendum: everyone should be able to travel to and live anywhere they damn well feel like [space and community permitting]- didn't mean to suggest that there is such a thing as illegality defined by location. That's insane.)
posted by Buntix at 4:22 PM on September 5


Not a big thing given the DACA decision but still a measure of how stupid he is.

I propose that the International System of Units add the trump as the unit of stupidity, with the MAGAtrump being the greatest possible quantity.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:23 PM on September 5 [9 favorites]


International metric prefix MAGA = 10TRUMP
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:28 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


How many MAGAtrumps was the annexation of Fort Sumter? Operation Barbarossa?
posted by Coventry at 4:29 PM on September 5


Terry Colon should just make every explainer comic ever.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:37 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


It's worth mentioning that the DACA recipients paid over $400,000,000 to the U.S. Treasury for the documents that Trump is about to tear up and screw them out of. This is about par for a Trump business deal.
posted by JackFlash at 4:46 PM on September 5 [86 favorites]


Since we're engaging in rampant speculation

It's not my "rampant speculation"; several highly respected professional psychiatric groups have broken with long-standing professional ethics rules to warn the public they believe Trump can safely be diagnosed as malignant narcissist based on his public speech acts and other very clear diagnostic criteria. And narcissism doesn't require full dissociation from reality, only dissociation from one's own guilt/shame/insecurity.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:52 PM on September 5 [19 favorites]


Why denying overtime to millions of workers isn't just one level below ending DACA on the national outrage meter is beyond me.

I think part of it is that that's not the way the issue is generally framed or understood, though that framing is certainly fair. I think workers would be more likely to think of themselves as having been denied overtime if the increased statutory minimum exempt salary had gone into effect and then been returned to its previous very-low level, rather than having never gone into effect in the first place, having been enjoined by court order.
posted by The World Famous at 5:01 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]




It's not my "rampant speculation"

I'd point out that inter-rater correlation in diagnosis of NPD is only 0.67, except that was a psychology experiment, and such experiments are notoriously unreliable. Arguments from authority aren't very convincing when it comes to psychological claims.
posted by Coventry at 5:04 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


The worst thing you can say about the Boomer generation is it gave us Donald Trump

that's...that's pretty bad
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:04 PM on September 5 [38 favorites]


Tal Kopan and Jim Acosta, CNN: Admin memo: DACA recipients should prepare for 'departure from the United States'

The Department of Homeland Security urges DACA recipients to use the time remaining on their work authorizations to prepare for and arrange their departure from the United States -- including proactively seeking travel documentation

Bastards.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:04 PM on September 5 [51 favorites]


Because, of course, after living in the states most of their lives and likely not having documents from their original countries after growing up here, I'm sure getting that travel documentation to go back to countries they do not consider home will just be -so- simple.
posted by Archelaus at 5:09 PM on September 5 [24 favorites]


Well, if multiple pro psychiatrist groups are willing to put their professional reputations and necks on the line to make the diagnosis anyway, presumably more aware of those diagnostic limitations themselves, I'd have to imagine Trump's case is pretty obviously a doozy to the professionals whose daily jobs are working with patients who do have the diagnosis as well as being actual medical authorities much more qualified in reality than any of us to make the diagnosis. That's also why I qualified my comment "if the diagnosis is correct..." The rest after that is true, in case "batshit insane" isn't specific enough information to go on for forming predictions.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:13 PM on September 5 [9 favorites]


That's a good point -- what is the admin's plan for the deportations? If a person has no documents, where are you going to deport them to? You may say "you look mexican" -- but why should Mexico let that person enter their country with no documents?
posted by phliar at 5:13 PM on September 5 [17 favorites]


I'm not involved very directly in this side of the Resistance so I don't know if this is a stupid idea, but what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Dreamers showed up to turn themselves in to ICE all at once?
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:15 PM on September 5


...and can you imagine thousands of Dreamers a day? I said THOUSANDS of Dreamers a day... walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? Friends, They may think it's a MOVEMENT, and that's what it is: THE ALICE'S RESTAURANT ANTI-RICH ORANGE SHITHEAD MOVEMENT!
posted by delfin at 5:18 PM on September 5 [22 favorites]


I'm not involved very directly in this side of the Resistance so I don't know if this is a stupid idea, but what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Dreamers showed up to turn themselves in to ICE all at once?

Like today? Nothing would happen. In 6 months? They'd risk getting deported.
posted by 23skidoo at 5:18 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


I think it would be more effective if hundreds of thousands of people who *aren't* at risk of deportation show up and drive all the ICE agents into the sea where they belong.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:21 PM on September 5 [64 favorites]


If they have no documentation for their countries of origin and those countries refuse to accept them, then the DREAMers become stateless people, which is an even more cruel fate than being repatriated to a place you don't remember and whose language you don't speak. I would expect a lot of the origin countries to be a bit forgiving on this score so as not to be counted on the heartless asshole card along with Trump et al, but you never know.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:22 PM on September 5 [17 favorites]


Microsoft President Brad Smith on NPR:
"There is nothing that we will be pushing on more strongly for Congress to act on," Smith said in an interview with NPR. "We put a stake in the ground. We care about a tax reform bill. The entire business community cares about a tax reform. And yet it is very clear today a tax reform bill needs to be set aside until the DREAMers are taken care of. They have a deadline that expires in six months. Tax reform can wait."

Smith also said if the government moves to deport DREAMers who are Microsoft employees, "it's going to have to go through us to get that person."
Also, Microsoft says it will pay legal fees to fight Dreamer employee deportation.
posted by chris24 at 5:23 PM on September 5 [125 favorites]


but what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Dreamers showed up to turn themselves in to ICE all at once?

I think the worst case scenario is camps in the desert to take the overflow from ICE detention centers. These are actual Nazis.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:28 PM on September 5 [61 favorites]


Yes, I mean in 6 months.

Would the sight of half a million young people lining up in every city to be deported be enough to move the conscience of the 'white moderate'?

Is it the best chance to do so?

I don't know and I'm not saying I do. I just want people who know more than I do to help think through what the best way to resist is (and what we who are citizens can do to support our fellow Americans).
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:28 PM on September 5


Anthony Scaramucci was fired five weeks ago.

Who wants ginger snaps?!?
posted by petebest at 5:28 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


Ah, fuck. I don't want to alarm people unnecessarily, and my previous comment is basically guaranteed to do that. I'm sorry. I just...don't think we should trust in the decency of ICE.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:29 PM on September 5 [15 favorites]


The worst thing you can say about the Boomer generation is it gave us Donald Trump.

It also gave you Barrack and Michelle Obama, although they were from the tail end of the Boomers.
posted by JackFlash at 5:31 PM on September 5 [7 favorites]


That's a good point -- what is the admin's plan for the deportations? If a person has no documents, where are you going to deport them to? You may say "you look mexican" -- but why should Mexico let that person enter their country with no documents?

If they have a Latin@ name, they get sent to Mexico. If they have family members with Latin@ names, they get sent to Mexico. (Nevermind whether Mexico has any interest in letting them in - the plan may be, "walk them to the border and point guns at them until they continue into Mexico.") If they have a middle-eastern name, send them to either (1) the identifiable country they came from or (2) Iraq, because that's where "Muslim terrorists" come from. Put them on a plane; push them out onto the tarmac.

DACA person who got here when they were 3, speak only English, has three US citizen children now? They can take the US citizen children with them or drop them into the US foster care system; their choice.

This is not, of course, aimed at European nannies who overstay their work permits or students who just don't leave when their visa expires. White immigrants are welcome to stay as long as they're paying taxes. They might even marry a future president.

There is no plan. This isn't about "illegal immigrants" or "keeping America for Americans;" it's about reducing the number of non-white faces Republicans have to see. It's not even about kicking them out - they'd be happy if they went into hiding and worked in sweatshops where they can't complain for fear of being deported.

Keep asking those questions, and keep asking them of politicians - ask about how they're going to identify where to send someone who's not a citizen of any other country either, because not all citizenships are based on "born here;" ask what will happen to their minor children who are US citizens; ask who's going to pay for the deportations. Ask what resources are going to be arranged for all those US citizen children who go to their parents' countries.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:35 PM on September 5 [61 favorites]


Morning Consult/POLITICO: 69% of *REPUBLICANS* think Dreamers should be allowed to stay or become citizens.

D: 71% become citizens, 13% stay, 8% deport

I: 56% become citizens, 18% stay, 12% deport

R: 46% become citizens, 23% stay, 24% deport
posted by chris24 at 5:39 PM on September 5 [54 favorites]


If they have a Latin@ name, they get sent to Mexico. If they have family members with Latin@ names, they get sent to Mexico. (Nevermind whether Mexico has any interest in letting them in - the plan may be, "walk them to the border and point guns at them until they continue into Mexico.")

This is, unfortunately, exactly the sort of cool plan I can see ICE coming up with and actually implementing, and I can also see Mexico getting a bit tired of being the dumping ground even for people who know their parents are from places like Guatemala or Ecuador, but who have no documentation to prove it. The whole thing is deliberately designed to fuck over as many people as possible as noisily as possible, and for the crassest possible reasons.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:40 PM on September 5 [11 favorites]


1) Airdrop all of the Dreamers into a small European nation, like, say, San Marino
2) Assign tasks to the Dreamers according to their abilities -- musical performance, stage management, set design, graphic effects, talent management, costume creation, Director of Key Changes, et cetera
3) WIN EUROVISION SCHOOL OF ROCK-STYLE

Take THAT, Putin.
posted by delfin at 5:40 PM on September 5 [14 favorites]


It's not even about kicking them out - they'd be happy if they went into hiding and worked in sweatshops where they can't complain for fear of being deported.

It's absolutely about kicking them out too, Republicans want to "debrownify" America as much as possible, because minorities vote Democratic and have American citizen kids that vote Democratic. Republicans want to reverse demographic trends that don't favor them staying in power, and if they have to create a new trail of tears to do that, they're prepared to do it. Hell, they'd like to repeal birthright citizenship itself if they could figure out how to do it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:40 PM on September 5 [18 favorites]


"… but what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Dreamers showed up to turn themselves in to ICE all at once?"
Turnbull: They have been under our supervision for over three years now and we know exactly everything about them.
   …
Trump: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

Fuckers have enough opportunities to be fuckers; don't give them more…
posted by Pinback at 5:42 PM on September 5 [9 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can't, I will revisit this issue!

So you remember that NYT piece from this morning about how aides thought Trump didn't understand what he's doing with DACA? Did he watch something on cable today and now he understands or something? He set a time bomb this morning that goes off in six months to try to force Congress to act, and now he's, what, saying he might diffuse the bomb himself if they don't? He's so bad at this.
posted by zachlipton at 5:43 PM on September 5 [54 favorites]


Shorter Trump: Nobody knew immigration reform could be so complicated.
posted by chris24 at 5:45 PM on September 5 [27 favorites]


I'm not a fan of amateur armchair analysis, but I do think that there are professionals who can give us insight into Trump's actions. Psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, Prudence L. Gourguechon, M.D., was on Lawrence O'Donnell's show last nigbt to discuss an L.A. Times Op-Ed she wrote, Is Trump mentally fit to be president? Let's consult the U.S. Army's field manual on leadership.
Although there are volumes devoted to outlining criteria for psychiatric disorders, there is surprisingly little psychiatric literature defining mental capacity, even less on the particular abilities required for serving in positions of great responsibility. Despite the thousands of articles and books written on leadership, primarily in the business arena, I have found only one source where the capacities necessary for strategic leadership are clearly and comprehensively laid out: the U.S. Army’s “Field Manual 6-22 Leader Development.”
I think it's helpful to have reasonable, objective criteria as a reference.

(emphasis in original)

(Emphasis mine)

posted by Room 641-A at 5:45 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


Well, hopefully in six months, President Pence will be able to deal with this right before resigning.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:46 PM on September 5 [6 favorites]


In case you were wondering what Corey Lewandowski is up to - Cambridge is really nice in the fall.
posted by adamg at 5:46 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]


There seems to be no one the Kennedy School won't give a place to. It's disgusting, really.
posted by uosuaq at 5:50 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


Part of me thinks that the plan here is to attach an act to restore DACA to something deeply unpopular that Trump really wants, like Obamacare repeal. That way, maybe he can get a couple of senators to change their vote so they can save DACA, and if not, then he can make Democrats pay a political price for voting against a bill that included relief for Dreamers. But then I thought about it and realized that I was giving Trump much too much credit, and he's just a white supremacist who is obsessed with undoing Obama's legacy.

God help us all.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:51 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


Part of me thinks that the plan here is to attach an act to restore DACA to something deeply unpopular that Trump really wants, like Obamacare repeal. That way, maybe he can get a couple of senators to change their vote so they can save DACA, and if not, then he can make Democrats pay a political price for voting against a bill that included relief for Dreamers. But then I thought about it and realized that I was giving Trump much too much credit, and he's just a white supremacist who is obsessed with undoing Obama's legacy.

It can be both. When asked directly in this morning's press briefing if Trump's plan is to demand that Congress attach DACA to one of his profoundly unpopular legislative goals, Sanders quite directly answered that yes, that is the plan - but she specifically referenced his anti-immigration agenda, and not ACA repeal.
posted by The World Famous at 5:56 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


I know this isn't Trump-related, but not sure where else to put it - Rush Limbaugh says that "big water" and Al Gore are behind the projections for Hurricane Irma. Seriously. Link to Twitter thread to avoid giving him extra traffic.
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:59 PM on September 5 [7 favorites]


Goddam I hope that asshat dies before I do...
posted by bird internet at 6:02 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


How the fuck can one be a hurricane truther?
posted by angrycat at 6:03 PM on September 5 [37 favorites]


wetly?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:05 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


How the fuck can one be a hurricane truther?

His argument is that "Big Water" and the mainstream media are fomenting panic to, respectively, sell water and push the concept of climate change. It's incredibly irresponsible and silly.
posted by Coventry at 6:07 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


In case you were wondering what Corey Lewandowski is up to - Cambridge is really nice in the fall.

I was a member of the IOP's Student Advisory Committee during my undergraduate years at Harvard. It was my main student extracurricular activity. I am practically incandescent with rage right now. I've just drafted a letter to President Faust and the director of the IOP, Maggie Williams, to notify them that I am immediately suspending all my donations to Harvard as a result of the decision to award Lewandowski a fellowship and I will refrain from making any donations to the University until his fellowship is rescinded and an apology is issued. This is -beyond- shameful and it's a violation of Harvard's code of conduct to boot. Lewandowski. Committed. Assault. Shame on you, Harvard. SHAME.
posted by longdaysjourney at 6:09 PM on September 5 [51 favorites]


Big Water? Maybe he thinks the hurricane is sentient.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:09 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


I hope ol painless Rush lives to a nice long 700 years or so. That mindset has to get exhausting.
posted by petebest at 6:09 PM on September 5


Big Water? Maybe he thinks the hurricane is sentient.

The bottled water industry, which is doing quite well in Florida at the moment.
posted by Coventry at 6:12 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


"Hurricanes are liberal propaganda" is a bit funny when you consider that some on the hard right have opined that God is steering killer hurricanes at the US on purpose.

Which is hardly the first instance of that kind of talk.
posted by delfin at 6:13 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


Trump made it like 8 hours before bravely advancing to the rear on DACA. Of course his attempt at retreating is going to cause even more chaos and make resolving things so much harder.
posted by Justinian at 6:14 PM on September 5 [10 favorites]


"Hurricanes are liberal propaganda" is a bit funny when you consider that some on the hard right have opined that God is steering killer hurricanes at the US on purpose.

When you're a conservative, hurricanes are whatever you need them to be to make political points.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:15 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


I read "Big Water" as the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean Sea and well no duh. Big Water and Al Gore* are responsible for Irma.

-----------
*Jet Aeroplane rides and air conditioning.
posted by notyou at 6:15 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


Special election result => The GOP has (apparently) held the New Hampshire House Grafton 9 seat. This was a traditionally narrow GOP seat; the Dem has lost by a close enough margin that he is seeking a recount.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:22 PM on September 5 [19 favorites]


Listen to Rush, Florida Trump voters. There's no hurricane, it's a conspiracy by the Chinese, Al Gore and Big Water. Plan a family beach vacation for Sunday, it'll be fine.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:23 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


Maggie Williams is no longer at the IOP. It's now an old fogey by the name of Bill Delahunt, in an iterim capacity.
posted by AwkwardPause at 6:26 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


You know if the hurricane did go to Mar -A-Lago it would be making a direct hit on Rush Limbaugh's mansion, also.
Unfortunately, several hundred thousand others.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:28 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


Droppo'clock:

House Intelligence Committee subpoenas Trump documents from FBI and Justice Department (Newsweek/Raw Story)
The House Intelligence Committee has issued subpoenas requesting that the FBI and Department of Justice provide documents related to an unverified dossier about President Donald Trump. The latest subpoenas reportedly call on FBI Director Christopher Wray and Attorney General Jeff Sessions to appear before the House panel.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:31 PM on September 5 [23 favorites]


Attorney General Jeff Sessions to appear before the House panel.

Ah cannot tell a lah, Congressman, because the predisent has not yet decided if ah should do that yet.
posted by petebest at 6:37 PM on September 5 [16 favorites]


Here's some context that changes the narrative of the House investigation story. Intensifying Russia probes could pit Hill against Mueller. In short, Trey Gowdy is running interference for Trump.
posted by scalefree at 6:40 PM on September 5 [13 favorites]


President Faust

Well, there's your problem

Taking Lewandowski was probably part of the deal
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:40 PM on September 5 [12 favorites]


Intensifying Russia probes could pit Hill against Mueller.
Mueller's team has employed some aggressive tactics. In one such case, Mueller's team may have obtained evidence in the raid of Manafort's home that was not covered by the search warrant, sources told CNN.
I thought that was typical for a search warrant, and the reason you never want to be the target of an investigation. It's just the plain-view exception to the fourth amendment, isn't it?
posted by Coventry at 6:58 PM on September 5 [15 favorites]


It's a perfect example to come up after reading zachlipton's link 'How to Read a News Story About an Investigation', that's for sure. When I read that I immediately knew "sources" meant... Manafort's lawyer.
posted by ctmf at 7:02 PM on September 5 [23 favorites]


In short, Trey Gowdy is running interference for Trump

Interference, or obstruction?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:02 PM on September 5 [7 favorites]


It's just the plain-view exception to the fourth amendment, isn't it?

Right, if the cops have a search warrant looking for giant piles of cocaine in your apartment and when they bust in you have two illegal UZIs sitting on the counter you don't get away with the weapons charges because the warrant was for drugs. This objection is, to use the Republicans favorite new phrase, a nothingburger.
posted by Justinian at 7:04 PM on September 5 [27 favorites]


Well they sure don't want to meet with Mueller again. He'll FBI-mind-trick them into lying about something he already knows, then indict them too.
posted by ctmf at 7:05 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


Can we just make with the pee tape, please?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:06 PM on September 5 [7 favorites]


If a person has no documents, where are you going to deport them to? You may say "you look mexican" -- but why should Mexico let that person enter their country with no documents?

Historically, what has happened is that the people deported end up in no-man's land between the two countries, and they're stuck there until one nation relents or a third party offers to accept them as refugees.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:06 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


I didn't realise the US had not signed any of the treaties on reducing statelessness -- but not surprised I guess.
posted by phliar at 7:20 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


If the House won't provide testimony transcripts, can Mueller just subpoena those witnesses again?
posted by Coventry at 7:35 PM on September 5


This objection is, to use the Republicans favorite new phrase, a nothingburger.

I never thought I'd live to see the day I was glad to watch the GOP kill something that's popular, yet here we are.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:42 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


It's gotten so bad I've started to get used to agreeing with Jen Rubin.

@JRubinBlogger:
Trump doesn't want to take responsibility, be the bad guy. DACA supporters therefore must focus like a laser on him
posted by chris24 at 7:46 PM on September 5 [16 favorites]


WATCH WHAT TRUMP DOES, NOT WHAT HE SAYS. HE MAY NOT ACTUALLY END DACA. (Ryan Grimm, Intercept):
The likelihood of Trump reversing himself and extending the program does not suggest that DACA recipients don’t face real risks. The limbo itself is a cruel blow, and the uncertainty adds another layer of challenge to all aspects of life, from the personal to the professional. Many of those recipients are already facing crises, as undocumented parents and other family members who were not eligible for the program have become targets of Trump’s ramped-up interior deportations.

But the fight is not over, no matter what the reality TV host or his Alabama sidekick announces on Tuesday.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:50 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


Interference, or obstruction?

Both. The House "investigation" is anything but. Gowdy is not even in the same plane of existence as a good faith actor, he's going to take every opening to sabotage Mueller under cover of official Congressional action.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 PM on September 5 [11 favorites]


Trump: So you help with the election, I get the Presidency. And?

Putin: And dacha.

Trump: End DACA? Whatever you say, boss.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:05 PM on September 5 [31 favorites]


I don't understand the "I'm going to end DACA but the Congress can pass a bill to save it." Trump is going to sign the bill? Then why say he's going to end DACA? He's not going to sign the bill? Then two-thirds of Congress is needed to override the veto.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:06 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


The Coming Storm (Jacobin):
Gleason and Will echo a cohort of self-styled progressive historians and political scientists who describe the universalist policies of the New Deal and Great Society eras as inherently flawed because of constraints imposed on them by segregationist congressmen. They also obscure the years of struggle it took to bring some people under the protection of these laws. Thus Gleason uses racism, not contractor profits and upward redistribution, to justify his suggestion that President Trump immediately suspend the Davis-Bacon Act.

In moments like this, when others want to turn crisis into opportunity, we need a clear-headed understanding of class power and a practical commitment to working-class interests.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:07 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


I don't understand the "I'm going to end DACA but the Congress can pass a bill to save it." Trump is going to sign the bill? Then why say he's going to end DACA? He's not going to sign the bill? Then two-thirds of Congress is needed to override the veto.

They called it Repeal and Replace last time.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:12 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


They're not going to get a bill. He knows that. He gets to rile up racists, throw congress into a shit-stink attacking each other with no time to do anything, blame Obama for causing the whole thing, and either blame congress for not succeeding or get to deport a bunch of people. I don't think he cares either way, it's all win as far as he's concerned.
posted by ctmf at 8:13 PM on September 5 [12 favorites]


If they do come up with a bill that passes both chambers (while he's stirring up opposition to his own bill just to make it a bigger mess), he'll find some fault with it and not sign it, while blaming congress for not helping him save the dreamers (from himself) good enough.
posted by ctmf at 8:15 PM on September 5


Beyond parody.

@yashar:
Sean Hannity just now: "I talked to Julian Assange, he says it's not Russia. I just spoke to @DanaRohrabacher and he believes him."
posted by chris24 at 8:18 PM on September 5 [60 favorites]


"Hey these two Russian assets say we're cool soooooo..."
posted by jason_steakums at 8:21 PM on September 5 [25 favorites]


It turns out it was Vicente Fox all along! [scooby-doo reveal] Thanks, Julian!
posted by ctmf at 8:21 PM on September 5 [9 favorites]


So the three most obvious Russian tools, Hannity, Assange and Rohrbacher, are all denying Russia has done anything naughty... that's a sure sign of something - I wonder what.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:22 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


I think eventually this ends with Julian Assange tearing his mask off Scooby-Doo style and revealing "Yes, it was I VLADIMIR PUTIN all along!".
posted by Justinian at 8:23 PM on September 5 [7 favorites]


Dangit. The odds on someone else making the same goddamn Scooby Doo joke in the minute and a half since I previewed... I love you guys.
posted by Justinian at 8:24 PM on September 5 [36 favorites]


So the three most obvious Russian tools, Hannity, Assange and Rohrbacher, are all denying Russia has done anything naughty... that's a sure sign of something - I wonder what.

To be fair, Hannity might just be a tool, not necessarily a Russian tool.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:24 PM on September 5 [9 favorites]


I scream! you scream! You scream! We all scream just constantly each day is a new nightmare in this Hell world we call earth. (Obvious Plant on Facebook; direct link to image; Imgur archive)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:32 PM on September 5 [11 favorites]


that's a sure sign of something - I wonder what.

It's a sign Assange knows the GOP strategy: just lie. Straight up, baldfaced lie. "Wasn't me" "I just fucking saw you" "No you didn't."

60% already know you're a liar, 26% don't give a shit, and a lot of the remaining 14% are credulous idiots as long as you say what they wish were true. Might as well.
posted by ctmf at 8:39 PM on September 5 [12 favorites]


And today in "All Republicans are fucking liars and criminals": The Pence/Kobach Voter Suppression Comission is conducting its business over personal email accounts in violation of the Presidential Records Act

I seem to remember Republicans, and the New York Times, cared deeply about use of personal email for official business from July 2016 until Election Day. I haven't heard so much about it since though, maybe someone should ask Maggie Habermann?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:47 PM on September 5 [121 favorites]


It's a sign Assange knows the GOP strategy: just lie. Straight up, baldfaced lie.

"I never touched it. It was broken when you gave it me. It was fine when I returned it".
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:48 PM on September 5 [11 favorites]


Updated statement from our university president:
Dear ASU Community:

Two days ago, I made clear ASU’s intention to honor its constitutionally mandated mission to provide a quality education to Arizona’s college bound students – all of them.

I had previously reaffirmed ASU’s “historic commitment to Dreamers generally and to DACA students in particular.” I stand by that commitment, including my promise that “If DACA is eliminated, we will rise to the challenge,” just as we did before DACA existed by finding resources for these students from private sources.

In my November statement, I provided the broad outlines of our action plan. Here are some specific steps we are taking in response to today’s announcement:

1. We will work with the Arizona Congressional Delegation and other members of Congress to enact the DREAM Act or other appropriate federal legislation to provide an alternative to DACA by the administration’s March 5, 2018, deadline. I have asked Matt Salmon, ASU’s Vice President for Government Affairs, to lead this effort. I am hopeful that this time we will succeed in finding what I have long considered a pathway to an educated future for thousands of young people who have done nothing wrong.

2. We will engage the members of the Arizona business community and the various Arizona Chambers of Commerce who have supported these efforts in the past to assist with our federal policy work. Matt Salmon and his team will also coordinate this work.

3. We will facilitate legal advice for and to our students. I have asked Sr. Vice President and General Counsel, José Cárdenas, and the dean of the Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law, Doug Sylvester, to coordinate this effort.

4. Past experience has taught us that despite overwhelming public support for the DREAM Act, passage is not a certainty. To cover that eventuality, we will begin work now with individual, corporate, and foundation donors to help provide scholarships and other resources to our students. I've asked Gretchen Buhlig, CEO of the ASU Foundation, and ASU Sr. Vice President Christine Wilkinson, to lead this effort.

5. Our contingency planning will include discussions with Mexican and other international universities to identify and develop higher education programs that may be of assistance to our students. Executive Vice President and University Provost Mark Searle and General Counsel José Cárdenas will lead this effort.

All of these steps are in addition to those we initiated last November and earlier this year, and that we have enhanced since then. For example, in November we began providing counseling services to our DACA students, and over the course of the last several months we have touched base with every one of our DACA students to reaffirm our support for the completion of their college education.

And earlier this year we established a web page for DACA students and for international staff and faculty, and we will continue to use it to provide additional and up-to-date information. We have already added links to the three DHS documents concerning the administration’s decision to rescind DACA: A press release, a memorandum and an FAQ about the decision. All three can be found on ASU’s immigration and travel resources page.

I previously said we would talk to our DACA scholarship partner, TheDream.US, about ways in which they can continue to support the recipients of their scholarship funds. Those discussions have been ongoing, including as recently as last week when they advised their ASU scholars that TheDream.US is “exploring options that will enable us to continue to support your college education,” should DACA end. They have also said that, if need be, they will make scholarships available for ASU’s online program.

As I said on Sunday, we will, “within the law, do everything we possibly can do to help young people move their lives forward – regardless of the circumstances that brought them to this country.”


Michael M. Crow
President
Arizona State University
I'm delighted that this has been a priority for our administration. Not surprisingly, we have a lot of DACA students, and probably some faculty as well (definitely some adjunct faculty, including in my own department). I hope it gives those affected and their families some measure of reassurance and peace in these horrible days.
posted by Superplin at 9:10 PM on September 5 [75 favorites]


I don't understand the "I'm going to end DACA but the Congress can pass a bill to save it." Trump is going to sign the bill? Then why say he's going to end DACA? He's not going to sign the bill? Then two-thirds of Congress is needed to override the veto.

Trump has little understanding of the politics & mechanisms involved so expecting anything from him that satisfies those rules is wrong. He has urges, desires, & his actions seek to fulfill them without regard for the long term result or whether they conflict with each other. He wants his followers to love him & to punish his enemies & the subhumans they care about, but he also wants the cheers & approval that come from saying he supports those same subhumans. He wants credit from the racists but not criticism from the rest of us. Is that too much to ask?
posted by scalefree at 9:22 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


I'm not up on the media commentary... has anybody remarked on the fact that Trump, a guy whose only POSSIBLE Earthly claim to fame is that he inherited money, wants to deny a bunch of people the benefits that should attend the lucky circumstances of their births? I'd just sleep easier if somebody would say this stuff out loud, is all...
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:42 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


He's an instinctual predator, but that doesn't mean he isn't effective.

Also, he can just single out one group as worthy of contempt and his fellow southern strategists will then "work towards the fuhrer" to abuse them. e.g. Latin@s, or, more broadly, climate change science programs.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:58 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


What's the trick? These appointments to OPM and FLRA don't seem like something a silent movie villain would think up.
posted by ctmf at 10:22 PM on September 5


Gowdy is not even in the same plane of existence as a good faith actor, he's going to take every opening to sabotage Mueller under cover of official Congressional action

I'm just hoping that this does/will rise to the level of official obstruction charges from Mueller.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:31 PM on September 5 [5 favorites]


Natural Human Behavior
Trump didn’t invent the U.S. immigration and deportation complex; he inherited it. But he also expanded and brutalized its operations in ways unimaginable under President Barack Obama. This was no mean achievement: Trump’s predecessor had deported record numbers of people, even as he enacted a limited amnesty for those brought to this country as children without proper paperwork. On both sides, political pragmatism outweighed humanitarian concerns. Democrats wanted brown people’s votes. Republicans had stopped bothering with them, rallying behind Trump for the reestablishment of a white supremacist state, beginning with the forcible deportation of millions of “illegals” from Mexico and Latin America, whom Trump slandered as “rapists,” killers, drug pushers, and “bad hombres.”

In February 2016, a center-right think tank called the American Action Forum published a report titled “The Personnel And Infrastructure Needed To Remove All Undocumented Immigrants In Two Years.” It described in cautionary terms the practical requirements of the anti-immigrant “military operation” that Trump had put forward as his signature policy.

Among other expansions of the federal bureaucracy, the report estimated the following would be required to forcibly deport 11.3 million “undocumented” immigrants: an increase in the deportation officer headcount, from 4,844 to 90,582; an increase in the number of immigration jail beds to nearly 349,000, up from 34,000; the establishment of more than 1,200 new immigration courts, on top of the fifty-eight currently existing; the hiring of a commensurate number of federal attorneys; and the chartering of at least forty-seven commercial airline flights per day, up from four per day, as well as eighty-four daily buses, up from seven. Not counting the exponential increase in human suffering, the immediate consequence of Trump’s purge would be to vaporize an estimated $1 trillion in real gross domestic product while removing a full 6 percent of the national labor force.

In other words, Trump’s proposal was not only unfathomably wicked, it was also, as a narrowly construed matter of imperial management, staggeringly stupid.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:49 PM on September 5 [62 favorites]


Republicans:
Less government
More God
Less others
posted by PHINC at 10:59 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]


I have no sympathy for these kids.
Their parents broke the law.
They don't have jobs.
They cost taxpayers money.
posted by growabrain at 11:03 PM on September 5 [8 favorites]


I'm not a fan of amateur armchair analysis

Ooh, bad news for you then re: the Drumpf administration...
posted by Meatbomb at 11:06 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]


Here are 11 reasons why Trump's crappy kids should be deported (Heather Dockray, Mashable)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:15 PM on September 5 [4 favorites]


I'm going to catch up with this thread in a minute, but--

If there are any Mefites in Richmond, Virginia, Memail me. I need your help.
posted by dogheart at 11:37 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]


Well played.
posted by johnpowell at 11:38 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]


guys i made it. it took me so so so long, but i made it. this is probably my last post, because i am paranoid, but still. i made it! memail is open forever, and i love all of you.
posted by dogheart at 11:42 PM on September 5 [44 favorites]


Terry Colon should just make every explainer comic ever.

I concur, but I can't figure out to what you are referring!
posted by mikelieman at 11:57 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]


It was a comment towards this, mikelieman.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:54 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]


New York Dreamer Challenges Trump Administration’s Termination of DACA
via National Immigration Law Center @NILC_org
A young immigrant New Yorker and Make the Road New York (MRNY) went to federal court today to challenge the Trump administration’s termination of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. In a lawsuit brought in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, Martín Batalla Vidal, a DACA recipient, and MRNY are asking permission to amend their original complaint in order to argue that President Trump’s actions violate federal law and the equal protection guarantee of the Constitution.
posted by spamandkimchi at 3:11 AM on September 6 [10 favorites]


I wake up and see what looks like a mefite asking for help and disappearing because of this fucking black hole of a human being and his enablers.

I'm going to my first ADAPT meeting tonight. I've already seen stuff in social media from disability activists about the need to mobilize on DACA and I am so glad. I am so angry, I'm going to be 'hey do you need a chick in glasses to launch herself out her chair onto an ICE agent like some disabled human version of the face-hugger thing in Alien, I'm your woman.'
posted by angrycat at 3:13 AM on September 6 [88 favorites]


Political scientist Anna Law
There are THREE branches of govt in the US. It's a US bad habit to reduce everything to a lawsuit to let courts decide.
Let's the elected branches off the hook way too easily. Congress has the power to save DACA now that the Prez looks like he's punting.
The compelling for DACA were never about legality. To reduce it to law strengthens the hand of opponents and elides the complexity. (thread)
posted by spamandkimchi at 3:36 AM on September 6 [9 favorites]


n2doc at Democratic Underground: Wednesday Toon Roundups one and two.
posted by valetta at 3:43 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]


'hey do you need a chick in glasses to launch herself out her chair onto an ICE agent like some disabled human version of the face-hugger thing in Alien, I'm your woman.'

posted by angrycat

One of the more eponysterical things I've read here.
posted by jaduncan at 3:54 AM on September 6 [33 favorites]


Russians Have Hacked Dozens Of US Energy Companies, Researchers Say (Kevin Collier, BuzzFeed News)
A hacking group has grown bolder and gained access to operational controls of US electric companies, according to Symantec researchers.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:16 AM on September 6 [20 favorites]


Russians Have Hacked Dozens Of US Energy Companies, Researchers Say (Kevin Collier, BuzzFeed News)

You know, I'm not up on all the details of international law, but my layman's opinion is that this is an act of war.
posted by mikelieman at 5:07 AM on September 6 [36 favorites]


Former Mexican president slams Trump over DACA in brutal video
"Trump you have failed America cancelling DACA," he says.

"It is the worst action you've ever done against the ones that cannot defend themselves. This measure is cruel and heartless, worse than any machine. You're cancelling the future of 800,000 children and young people."

"You're so mistaken," he continued. "The future of any countries is in the minorities which will be majorities in a few years. You cannot stop the change, the progress, the future of that great nation. I hope your grandsons will never be in this terrible situation."
and:

Vicente Fox Quesada
Vicente Fox Quesada @VicenteFoxQue
.@realDonaldTrump cancelled the future of 800,000 kids who are the cornerstone of America and didn't even had the balls to say it himself.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:15 AM on September 6 [85 favorites]


When you're too racist and cruel for Jan Brewer...

@Taniel
Jan Brewer—the former Gov. who signed AZ's infamous SB 1070—just on CNN "these people shouldn't have to live in fear & in the shadows."
posted by chris24 at 5:16 AM on September 6 [23 favorites]


Draining. The. Swamp.

USA Today: Trump gets millions from golf members. CEOs and lobbyists get access to president
Dozens of lobbyists, contractors and others who make their living influencing the government pay President Trump’s companies for membership in his private golf clubs, a status that can put them in close contact with the president, a USA TODAY investigation found.

Members of the clubs Trump has visited most often as president — in Florida, New Jersey and Virginia — include at least 50 executives whose companies hold federal contracts and 21 lobbyists and trade group officials. Two-thirds played on one of the 58 days the president was there, according to scores they posted online. ...

The review shows that, for the first time in U.S. history, wealthy people with interests before the government have a chance for close and confidential access to the president as a result of payments that enrich him personally. It is a view of the president available to few other Americans.

Among Trump club members are top executives of defense contractors, a lobbyist for the South Korean government, a lawyer helping Saudi Arabia fight claims over the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and the leader of a pesticide trade group that sought successfully to persuade the Trump administration not to ban an insecticide government scientists linked to health risks.
posted by chris24 at 5:22 AM on September 6 [57 favorites]


When you're too racist and cruel for Jan Brewer...

It's amazing how compassionate some people become when they're not fanning their racist bases for votes.
posted by Talez at 5:24 AM on September 6 [44 favorites]


Retired Democrat: [continues working for human rights as they did while in office]
Retired Republican: You know all those things I voted for? They're really cruel.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:29 AM on September 6 [110 favorites]


oh, dogheart. Fuck. Stay safe. We're thinking of you.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:41 AM on September 6 [16 favorites]


Talking Points Memo: A Frazzled Congress May Not Be Able To Clean Up Trump’s DACA Mess
In one ominous sign for the chances of Congress passing a DACA fix, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) did not mention the issue at all in his first post-recess speech Tuesday afternoon.

The White House has also shown no leadership on what kind of fix it wants, and instead has simply threatened Congress to get something done.
Trump wants Congress to get rid of this problem by putting DACA into law, but he's unwilling to say it out loud because he wants his base to believe that Congress are the bad guys who forced his hand, and that Trump is still a hero to his base who never breaks his promises. So the right-wingers who might otherwise vote for it, saying they respect the President's decision and want to support him, instead have no political cover and no motivation to vote for the bill.

Truly, this is the Art of the Deal.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:15 AM on September 6 [9 favorites]




In Wisconsin, the state legislature is trying quickly pass a law that if someone brings a lawsuit against Foxconn, the Wisconsin (super-corrupt) Supreme Court will have original jurisdiction.
posted by drezdn at 6:19 AM on September 6 [5 favorites]


A couple bipartisan and positive steps in the Senate:

WaPo: Two senators aim to challenge Trump’s transgender troops order in defense bill
Two senators are preparing an amendment to challenge President Trump’s announced ban on transgender people serving in the military that they hope to attach to a sweeping defense bill the chamber is set to consider this month.

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that she is drafting the amendment with Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) to “try to protect the transgender troops” against the order that Trump initially issued via Twitter in July banning them from the military.

Politico: Senate resolution to force Trump's hand on condemning Charlottesville hate groups
The Senate is preparing to force President Donald Trump to go on record to officially condemn the deadly white supremacist rallies in Charlottesville last month.

Virginia Sens. Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, both Democrats, along with Republican Sens. Cory Gardner of Colorado and Johnny Isakson of Georgia, plan to formally roll out a Senate resolution later Wednesday that forcefully condemns the violence in Charlottesville while “rejecting white nationalists, white supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and other hate groups.”

The Senate routinely takes up nonbinding measures commemorating people and institutions in the form of concurrent resolutions and simple resolutions – which are both purely symbolic and not submitted to the White House for the president’s signature. But backers of the Charlottesville resolution have strategically chosen to introduce their measure as a joint resolution, which means it will be sent to Trump to sign into law. ...

The five-page resolution not only honors the victims of the deadly clashes and condemns the hate groups, but also urges the Trump administration to “use all available resources to address the threats posed by those groups.” The measure calls white supremacy and neo-Nazism “hateful expressions of intolerance that are contradictory to the values that define the people of the United States.”
posted by chris24 at 6:23 AM on September 6 [51 favorites]


Dozens of lobbyists, contractors and others who make their living influencing the government pay President Trump’s companies for membership in his private golf clubs, a status that can put them in close contact with the president...

One bright spot. All those people will undoubtedly resign their memberships once Trump is out of office and of no further use to them. He's not going to have the kind of influence that previous former politicians have; they're not interested in his base. This is going to hurt the bottom line bigly. Bwahahahaha.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:24 AM on September 6 [2 favorites]


There was a big pro-DACA march yesterday. I went on part of it - I have a stupid leg thing right now and after a couple of miles it hurts.

I was struck by a couple of things:

1. I don't think there's good enough communication between immigrants' rights groups and random-activist groups - I didn't see a bunch of people and groups I'd expect to see and that I know care about this issue, and I think that's because of information flow. (FTR, minneapolitans - you can follow MIRAC on facebook to keep up with this stuff.) It was a large march, but I think it would normally have been larger.

2. A brass band joined us partway. Let me tell you, get a brass band if you're organizing a thing - it does lift the spirits.

3. The DACA kids are way, way braver than me and have dealt with some shit. It really made me think, too, since I never even consider anyone's status (why would I? It matters zero percents to my life) about how lots of people are dealing with bullshit while doing all the regular life stuff, working, going to school, etc, and how exhausting it must be.

Ugh, what garbage. I don't even know what next steps are if there isn't at least a stay in six months - mass civil disobedience, I guess. I hate hate hate getting arrested but I guess this will be where it has to be done, since as shitty as previous immigration policies have been (and I want to stress that it was under Obama that someone I know's young cousin was deported and immediately murdered by the gang he'd fled) this is an obvious escalation of the Hitler variety.
posted by Frowner at 6:29 AM on September 6 [80 favorites]


AwkwardPause: Maggie Williams is no longer at the IOP. It's now an old fogey by the name of Bill Delahunt, in an iterim capacity.

Bill Delahunt is an old Massachusetts pol. He was a county DA for a while, then a Representative for like 15 years. Now he's a lobbyist.

But Williams only took off a year to work for Clinton -- Delahunt it just the interim director, and she should be back "after the end of this calendar year."
posted by wenestvedt at 6:34 AM on September 6


Another deeply distressing part of this is that since the DACA recipients had to apply for that status, the government now has a complete list of them and their contact info so it can be easily turned over to ICE and the people who had trusted the Obama administration to do the right thing will now be punished for trying to follow rules and do the right thing themselves.

I just want to boost the signal on this. It's a really excellent example of how government lists, compiled under the best of intentions by presidents and leadership who were truly sincere about helping, can be used for ill by the next monster to take power. When people are freaking out about getting their name put on a list, and people think they're unjustifiably paranoid, this is what they are worrying about.

It is especially monstrous because I guarantee at least the parents of every DACA kid knew that. I guarantee each and every DACA kid had at least one older relative who has seen this sort of thing before who said, "Don't do it. They will put your name on a list and then deport you."

And I guarantee at least most of the kids on the list said, "Mom, you're being crazy. This is America."

Aside from everything else that has happened, I mourn the loss of trust for so many that had bright faith before - the trust that everything would be okay and they could safely move through the world without evaluating it for what the worst people could do to you.
posted by corb at 6:53 AM on September 6 [149 favorites]


Vox: The government is already winding down DACA — no matter what Trump tweets
As of Wednesday, September 6, the Trump administration is no longer accepting new applications from young immigrants to be temporarily protected from deportation (and able to work legally) under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program.

Does Donald Trump actually know that? It’s not clear... [On] Tuesday night, he tweeted this:
Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can't, I will revisit this issue!
Trump is either lying about what his administration is doing right now, or simply doesn’t understand it.

While the administration has claimed March 5 as the “official” end to DACA, it’s actually starting to wind the program down right now.
posted by cjelli at 6:59 AM on September 6 [42 favorites]


It is especially monstrous because I guarantee at least the parents of every DACA kid knew that. I guarantee each and every DACA kid had at least one older relative who has seen this sort of thing before who said, "Don't do it. They will put your name on a list and then deport you."

And I guarantee at least most of the kids on the list said, "Mom, you're being crazy. This is America."

Aside from everything else that has happened, I mourn the loss of trust for so many that had bright faith before - the trust that everything would be okay and they could safely move through the world without evaluating it for what the worst people could do to you.


There's an ugly lesson that's getting taught to us all across the country. I'm not sure what the takeaway is, other than that some white folks are terrified of losing the majority (which they will in 2042) and will do anything to try to stop it. The RNC 2012 Autopsy Report wasn't wrong on the demographic trends they're facing, and they've gone far backward on every group they intended to target:

"If we believe our policies are the best ones to improve the lives of the American people, all the American people, our candidates and office holders need to do a better job talking in normal, people-oriented terms and we need to go to communities where Republicans do not normally go to listen and make our case. We need to campaign among Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate we care about them, too. We must recruit more candidates who come from minority communities."

Good luck with that, guys. The fact that they've given up even trying to do outreach, and instead are focusing primarily on disenfranchisement, speaks volumes.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:01 AM on September 6 [45 favorites]


corb: Aside from everything else that has happened, I mourn the loss of trust for so many that had bright faith before

I was just coming here to say that, like Paris, this is just one more loud signal to the country and the world that the word of the US is not worth the pixels they're tweeted with.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:10 AM on September 6 [19 favorites]


Also just now, Kasich on TV telling all immigrants to go to Ohio; it needs and wants them.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:11 AM on September 6 [40 favorites]


3. The DACA kids are way, way braver than me and have dealt with some shit. It really made me think, too, since I never even consider anyone's status (why would I? It matters zero percents to my life) about how lots of people are dealing with bullshit while doing all the regular life stuff, working, going to school, etc, and how exhausting it must be.

Yep. They attend these demonstrations in spite of their status. I'm scared shitless and stay away from any and all demonstrations because of my status. If I happen to be unable to disperse, get caught in a kettle, unable to escape, and get arrested, just the act of being arrested seriously complicates my ability to renew my status. God forbid they call the protest a riot and then I get something the DHS considers a "crime of violence" on my record. I couldn't cop a plea deal in a lot of cases and rolling the dice at trial is a huge risk.

Even though I'm in the most liberal area of the country the risk to me is utterly terrifying given the consequence of being separated from my wife and my life. I guess it's easier to empathize with undocumented people when you feel the same fears they do from time to time.
posted by Talez at 7:15 AM on September 6 [38 favorites]


Daily 202/WaPo: The Daily 202: DACA reaction shows how immigration has become a litmus test for Democrats
-- The untold story, though, is the degree to which Democrats are now in lockstep on what not long ago was an issue that divided them. Not a single Democrat in either chamber of Congress has expressed support for getting rid of DACA.

-- This is part of a larger lurch to the left in the Democratic Party on a host of hot-button issues.
No matter where you’re from, it is harder than ever to be a Democratic candidate who is against gun control, abortion rights or single-payer health insurance. That doesn’t mean you cannot be, but one risks losing major donors and drawing the ire of the progressive grass roots – even if you represent a red state.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:26 AM on September 6 [43 favorites]


It was kicking around my head during the ACHA bullshit (and for all I know, I absorbed the comparison from someone here) but this is even clearer:

Trump's approach to DACA is basically Dr X's Doomsday Telethon.
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:29 AM on September 6 [6 favorites]


it is harder than ever to be a Democratic candidate who is against gun control, abortion rights

Is the DNC on board?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:37 AM on September 6 [15 favorites]


The Democrats right now are in the same position as Republicans were the last few years, it's easy to have litmus tests when there's zero danger of actually taking that vote. 5 Democrats killed the DREAM act. Democrats killed the public option. Democrats gave us sequesteration. If there was actually a vote on DACA, or single payer, or the Hyde Amendment, or free college, I STRONGLY suspect most of the red state Dems would balk at actually voting for it, again. But they know they won't have to put their vote where their mouth is any time in the foreseeable future.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 AM on September 6 [30 favorites]


Politico: Senate resolution to force Trump's hand on condemning Charlottesville hate groups
Virginia Sens. Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, both Democrats, along with Republican Sens. Cory Gardner of Colorado, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Johnny Isakson of Georgia, plan to formally roll out a Senate resolution later Wednesday that forcefully condemns the violence in Charlottesville while “rejecting white nationalists, white supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and other hate groups.”

The Senate routinely takes up nonbinding measures commemorating people and institutions in the form of concurrent resolutions and simple resolutions, which are both purely symbolic and not submitted to the White House for the president’s signature.

But backers of the Charlottesville resolution have strategically chosen to introduce their measure as a joint resolution, which means it will be sent to Trump to sign into law.
I'd expect that McConnell sidelines this over 'more pressing issues' while nominally acceding to the idea of considering it, but that's a decent amount of Republican support already, and in that it doesn't really do anything, McConnell might let it move forward and pass the buck to Trump.

Still: absurd and terrifying that we're at a place where the Senate has to twist the President's arm to condemn Nazis, though.
posted by cjelli at 7:54 AM on September 6 [11 favorites]


Hannah Gold/TheSlot.Jezebel: Betsy DeVos Reportedly May Announce Plan to Roll Back Title IX Enforcement This Week
Buzzfeed News reported on Monday that our billionaire, bear-fearing, MRA-loving Education Secretary Betsy DeVos will probably unveil her long-awaited changes to Title IX policy enforcement at George Mason University this Thursday. Federal officials have been describing the event as “centered around equal opportunity and equal protection for all,” which, coming from this administration, is always a sign of something dismal that needs its transparent justification.
I would be happy waiting a few more decades for these changes.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:13 AM on September 6 [12 favorites]


Federal officials have been describing the event as “centered around equal opportunity and equal protection for all,” which, coming from this administration, is always a sign of something dismal that needs its transparent justification.

It's kind of like how there's nothing wrong with democracy, or people, or republics, but whenever any country starts adding those modifiers to their name you know there's going to be some shit.
posted by corb at 8:20 AM on September 6 [38 favorites]


I've been in-and-out (more out than in because work is insanity right now) of these threads for a bit, but did y'all already discuss This American Life this week and it's portrait of the straight up Downton Abbey bullshit DeVos perpetrates around Grand Rapids?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:24 AM on September 6 [7 favorites]


The Democrats right now are in the same position as Republicans were the last few years, it's easy to have litmus tests when there's zero danger of actually taking that vote...Democrats gave us sequesteration

Sequestration was the result of the Republican-controlled House driving the 2011 debt limit talks, so I'm a bit confused as to why that's being cited as a case of Democrats having a majority and failing to pass legislation.
posted by cjelli at 8:29 AM on September 6 [18 favorites]


Former Republican Max Boot writing for WaPo instead of his in usual space at Foreign Policy...
"Last year I experienced the first sustained anti-Semitism I have ever encountered in the United States. Like many other anti-Trump commentators, I was deluged with neo-Nazi propaganda on social media, including a picture of me in a gas chamber, with Herr Trump in a Nazi uniform pulling the lever to kill me. This was accompanied by predictable demands that I leave this country to "real" Americans and go back to where I came from — or, alternatively, to Israel.

At one time it was easy to dismiss such sentiments as the ravings of a handful of marginal losers. That's harder to do now that the president of the United States has embraced the far-right agenda. Trump came to office vilifying Mexicans and Muslims. As president, he has praised the protesters who marched with neo-Nazis in Charlottesville as "very fine people" and come out against taking down Confederate monuments, symbols of white supremacy. He has pardoned former sheriff Joe Arpaio, who became a symbol of racism and lawlessness for locking up Latinos, in defiance of a court order, simply on the suspicion that they might be undocumented immigrants. And now Trump has set in motion the end of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, which prevents 800,000 law-abiding people from being deported because their parents brought them to the United States illegally."
...
"They are redefining what it means to be an American. The old idea that anyone who embraces America's ideals can become an American is out. A White House aide has even repudiated the words on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." Instead, American-ness is being redefined in blood-and-soil terms. I find myself increasingly forced to think of my ethnic identity instead of the national identity I adopted as a boy in 1976. That is discomfiting for me, and a tragedy for America."
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:36 AM on September 6 [77 favorites]


And while you are at it, it was Joe Lieberman, not a Democrat, who killed the single-payer option.

And of the 5 Democrats who voted against the DREAMER Act, 4 have been replaced by Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 8:37 AM on September 6 [38 favorites]


did y'all already discuss This American Life this week and it's portrait of the straight up Downton Abbey bullshit DeVos perpetrates around Grand Rapids?

I heard parts of that. Nice job whitewashing her reputation, talking about her mentee.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:49 AM on September 6 [4 favorites]


BREAKING NEWS: "There is a new and seems to be record-breaking hurricane [heading] toward Florida and Puerto Rico and other places," President Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. "It looks like it could be something that will be not good. Believe me, not good."

This marks the first time the President has used the phrase "believe me" in conjunction with a factual statement. Is this the pivot?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:51 AM on September 6 [28 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Trump’s America is a nightmare. There can be no dreamers here.
The “dreamers” are being ruled out, but the Nightmare People are still here, and they continue to be in charge of everything.

The nightmare — the one where you are naked in front of the whole class, where you have to give an important speech, but you don’t remember any words and the classroom is every important person in the world — is president now. Failing a test you didn’t know you had to study for is the chief executive of the United States.

The unshakeable sense that you are being persecuted is in charge of the Justice Department. In fact, it just announced this change in policy. The man with a slow eerie smile that you thought you got rid of in the ’80s is somehow back, standing behind a lectern, his smile growing wider and wider, even when you blink. How did he get here? You could have sworn—

The thing that lives under the bed has the president’s phone number and sometimes speaks for him at news conferences.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:51 AM on September 6 [61 favorites]


If you remember anything about the 2011 budget talks, sequesteration was proposed by Obama as a stick to bring Republicans to the negotiating table. Except Republcians were never going to negotiate to avoid the supposed penalty of the sequester, because it gave them exactly what they wanted all along, massive spending cuts. The sequester was the perfect case of Obama, supported by Democrats, preemptively surrending to Republicans and negotiating against themselves. That's why I used it as an example of Democrats utterly failing to uphold their supposed liberal policy goals, which should have been to demand adequate funding of the government, not give in to Republican demands for ever more cuts forever and ever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 AM on September 6 [21 favorites]


And while you are at it, it was Joe Lieberman, not a Democrat, who killed the single-payer option.

Got me there, he was only the 2000 Democratic VP candidate and won a spite campaign as an independent after losing in the primary. I'd bet any amount of money Lieberman in 2009 was substantially more liberal than several sitting Democratic Senators in 2017.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:56 AM on September 6 [2 favorites]


TAL's bit on DeVos was every thing I don't get about 'conservatives/republicans.' On the one hand her impulse is essentially positive - I will help these people. But fails to make the next step, 'what do these people need most?' Instead she hires them on. Similar with the schools, instead of making the school better, she takes the kids to a different school.
There's a certain ... coldness there that I just can't get behind. It's worth a listen but jarring.
posted by From Bklyn at 9:01 AM on September 6 [10 favorites]


Longread on the current NYT front page about this very issue in Michigan.
posted by Melismata at 9:07 AM on September 6 [3 favorites]


If you remember anything about the 2011 budget talks, sequesteration was proposed by Obama as a stick to bring Republicans to the negotiating table. Except Republcians were never going to negotiate to avoid the supposed penalty of the sequester, because it gave them exactly what they wanted all along, massive spending cuts.

The catch for the GOP was supposed to be that the sequester also hit the military spending they love so much. Problem was, all the Republican Party in 2009-2016 wanted was to make sure Barack Obama got as few policy "wins" as possible, regardless of how it might hurt their other supposed priorities. If Obama hadn't tried the sequester, and instead suggested a bill where, unless Congress could reach a spending agreement government officials would start throwing live puppies off the Capitol roof, the Freedom Caucus would have blocked any deal unless it would defund Planned Parenthood. And then once the Puppy Sequester kicked in, they'd campaign on puppies being terrorist sympathizers.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:08 AM on September 6 [2 favorites]


In the past I've thought of Republicans as a cult, but currently I think of them like junkies for power. They crave the feeling of domination more than anything, and they will literally burn down the world, trash the futures of their kids, grandkids and constituents, and betray every value they have ever claimed to hold, every ally or friend they ever had, in order to get it.

It's the only explanation that fits their actions to me right now.
posted by emjaybee at 9:15 AM on September 6 [27 favorites]


There's a certain ... coldness there that I just can't get behind. It's worth a listen but jarring.

I don't want to be a bigot or overgeneralize about other people's religions, but DeVos is a devoted member of the Christian Reformed Church, sometimes called Dutch Calvinism, and there is a utilitarian, sink or swim mentality that goes along with the faith, which could be seen as coldness.
posted by cell divide at 9:18 AM on September 6 [13 favorites]


If you remember anything about the 2011 budget talks, sequesteration was proposed by Obama as a stick to bring Republicans to the negotiating table.

...because Republicans controlled the house, yes; why blame Obama rather than the Republicans that controlled the House at the time? Your framing was, I'd note, 'The Democrats right now are in the same position as Republicans were the last few years, it's easy to have litmus tests when there's zero danger of actually taking that vote' -- and the 2011 debt limit debates are not comparable to the current political situation, in that sense.

There could not be a debt limit increase without Republican votes, in 2011, even if all Democrats voted in lockstep. It's exactly not the situation today, which is what I understood your claim to be, in that Republican internal fracturing means that they do have a nominal majority but can't seem to find an actual one.

I did not take your point to be a criticism of Democratic negotiating strategies as a whole during the Obama presidency, but if that is your point, then: I'm not going to re-litigate it.
posted by cjelli at 9:31 AM on September 6 [9 favorites]


At least some good news for Washingtonians today: Rep Dave Reichert (R-WA 08) just announced he won't be running for reelection in 2018.

Lots of kudos goes to the Indivisible WA8 group, who early on made it their primary focus to oppose and challenge Reichert, to the point where they specifically made the ask for other local Indivisible groups to pick up their slack on other local, state, and federal causes.

They also posted the best photo during their "Where's Dave?" Town Hall pursuit: https://twitter.com/Indivisible_WA8/status/898698492125761536
posted by orbit-3 at 9:40 AM on September 6 [32 favorites]


I read "Big Water" as "Big Muddy", as in, the big fool says to march on.
posted by notsnot at 9:44 AM on September 6 [7 favorites]


It's pretty clear to me that what De Vos wants is to only help people she deems worthy. And for that, she has to know them personally, assess them personally, and direct them personally the way she wants them to go in order to continue their "improvement." Notice she sent those kids to Christian schools, not private nonsectarian schools. It's a creepy as fuck noblesse oblige master/servant dynamic.

It's the same impulse you see with lots of conservatives, only writ ginormous because she's a billionaire. They do not want a single solitary penny going to someone who isn't "deserving" by whatever personal metric they have devised (this is how they define "freedom"), and if that means no one gets anything, well, then, that's the price society has to pay.

My impression of De Vos isn't that she's unfeeling and uncaring, it's that she's just dumb, on top of being a religious whackaloon. She can't comprehend that her model of assistance to even the deserving (by her definition) poor does not scale up. How many Betsy De Vos's does this country need in order to provide a quality education and quality employment to every single hardworking, clean-nosed impoverished family? (Answer: more Betsy De Vos's than we actually have.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on September 6 [48 favorites]


Josh Marshall (TPM): An Opening in Trump’s Flail?
But President Trump can’t even leave it at that. In his latest tweet, he says “Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can’t, I will revisit this issue!”

Let’s unpack this.

Does President Trump want to end DACA? He seems to see the consequences of ending DACA as something it is incumbent on Congress to fix. He gives no sense that he’d veto such an effort – which is what you’d expect if he were really behind the substance of his decision to rescind DACA. Indeed, he puts it forward as another way he might best President Obama – getting the substance of DACA enacted as law. But the real kicker is: if Congress can’t get it together, he will “revisit the issue.”

This is highly odd. The whole premise is that DACA had no legal grounding. A President had no ability to act in this way. President Obama exceeded his presidential authority. In other words, President Trump now seems to be saying he will go back and try to resolve this matter through a new executive action even though the premise of everything that’s happened in the last 72 hours is that the President has no such power. [...]

One of Trump’s cardinal impulses is to hurt people. A secondary impulse is to make deals if he agrees not to hurt people. In other words, a typical gangster. But in this case, he very clearly seems very wary of getting blamed for the human suffering that his actions will cause. This looks like a real opening for those who want to save DACA – or at least the substance of it in legislation – and the hundreds of thousands it has protected.
I would add a third impulse to his behavior: The desire to be liked and admired. I think he must know--at least on some level--that ending DACA will reflect very poorly on him, so he's trying to pass the buck to Congress. He also probably knows that the people who "like" him the most are the ones who want this policy to end, but that everyone else will be super pissed. He just does not want them to be pissed at him.

I am not sure how exactly to leverage this into preserving DACA or producing positive legislation. However, I think somehow we can use his desire to be liked to help protect DREAMers and immigrants. It's a long shot, but it may be worth trying to exploit this crack in the armor.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:49 AM on September 6 [34 favorites]


there is a utilitarian, sink or swim mentality that goes along with the faith, which could be seen as coldness.

In the way that my kitchen table could be seen as a kitchen table?
posted by thelonius at 9:52 AM on September 6 [35 favorites]


Longread on the current NYT front page about this very issue in Michigan.
posted by Melismata at 9:07 AM on September 6 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]


Great read, Melismata. Should mention the journalist, MARK BINELLI.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:54 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]


In the way that my kitchen table could be seen as a kitchen table?

You say fucking cold as shit, I say fuck shit is cold...
posted by From Bklyn at 10:00 AM on September 6 [2 favorites]


Some good news for 2018 in Washington-08.

@eyokley
.@davereichert will not seek re-election, per his office. #WA08 [statement]

@Nate_Cohn (NYT) Retweeted Eli Yokley
Wow. Reichert is probably the single most valuable retirement for the Democrats in their pursuit of the House.
- I (believe) Reichert is the only representative who carried Gore/Kerry district in '06, '08, Obama/Clinton district in '12 and '16.
- He won with 60% of the vote in '16 and hadn't attracted a very strong challenger. Despite horrible national envi, Reichert would be favorite
- FWIW, still not a slam dunk for Democrats. Downballot GOP does better. But there aren't many slam dunk Dem retirement options
posted by chris24 at 10:04 AM on September 6 [20 favorites]


Scattered reporting on a possible debt limit / Harvey aid / spending limit package: looking like a three-month extension to both, to December 15th, rolled into the same bill as aid for Harvey; Trump overruled every other Republican in the room at the negotiations and agreed to support a limited, three-month extension rather than a longer one.

...which makes it somewhat unclear if that's actually a deal that can pass, or whether that's Trump playing dealmaker and not understanding what he's actually doing or capable of doing. But both Schumer and Pelosi appear to be running with 'the President has agreed to this!' which will certainly complicate any hypothetical negotiations if this isn't a done deal.
posted by cjelli at 10:09 AM on September 6 [3 favorites]


I don't want to be a bigot or overgeneralize about other people's religions, but DeVos is a devoted member of the Christian Reformed Church, sometimes called Dutch Calvinism, and there is a utilitarian, sink or swim mentality that goes along with the faith, which could be seen as coldness.

Predestination plays a major part in their theology. Christians are the Elect, chosen by God for salvation. When I was active in a similar denomination one joking nickname for us was the "frozen chosen".
posted by scalefree at 10:20 AM on September 6 [8 favorites]


Sets up a holiday shut down / debt limit fight, Merry Christmas!
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:21 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]




When I was active in a similar denomination one joking nickname for us was the "frozen chosen".

Funny, I've heard the same name applied to Jews in Minnesota.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:23 AM on September 6 [8 favorites]


Funny, I've heard the same name applied to Jews in Minnesota.

So only when the Senate isn't in session?
posted by Talez at 10:26 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]


Re Betsy DeVos, this is your periodical reminder that she is Eric Prince's sister and they bad people.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:26 AM on September 6 [72 favorites]


When I was active in a similar denomination one joking nickname for us was the "frozen chosen".
posted by scalefree at 10:20 AM on September 6 [2 favorites +] [!]


You know who else calls themselves the Frozen Chosen?
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:29 AM on September 6 [4 favorites]


or whether that's Trump playing dealmaker and not understanding what he's actually doing or capable of doing

The president has no idea what the president's abilities are, and has no interest in what responsibilities the president has traditionally taken on. However, his advisors *do* know the limit of his legal powers, and they are feeding him agenda items couched in language to appeal to his racist, glory-seeking biases, and hoping that he doesn't announce a mangled version of those plans to the press.

Just because he has no idea what he's doing, doesn't mean "plans from the White House" are incoherent and random.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:30 AM on September 6 [6 favorites]


Aw, jinx, Faint...
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:30 AM on September 6 [3 favorites]


chris24: "Some good news for 2018 in Washington-08.


Yes, this is an excellent Dem pickup opportunity. Also, anecdotally, one high-profile retirement often seems to trigger others to follow suit.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:32 AM on September 6 [5 favorites]


Re Betsy DeVos, this is your periodical reminder that she is Eric Prince's sister and they bad people.

Also that their dad was a billionaire, and then she married the son of a billionaire, so her concept of money is probably about the same as my concept of krill -- other entities find it very important, and I can identify it from pictures, but I have never so much as needed to care about it personally.
posted by Etrigan at 10:34 AM on September 6 [95 favorites]


wenestvedt:

This is probably way in the weeds on idiosyncratic issues of the leadership of the Institute of Politics at Harvard, but Maggie Williams is gone for good. Delahunt is interim while they search for a new director.
posted by AwkwardPause at 10:34 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]


“Impeachment,” he says, “people don’t even know what that means. Or there’s that clause in the 25th Amendment where if the president goes insane, a majority of the Cabinet can remove him, or at least turn the powers over to the vice-president. People talk about that like it’s a real thing. Like they’re really going to do that. By now, most Republicans — because they’re only a year away from their election in the House, and a third of the Senate — they have done polling in their districts, and they have learned that being associated with Trump or having Trump as the standard-bearer of their party will not cost them their seat next year. They’ve done such an excellent job of gerrymandering their districts that even though people may not like Trump that much by this time next year, it will not affect them. It will affect a few, in some of the purple districts. Democrats will pick up a few seats, that’s just true historically, but … He just has to win his Electoral College states, and he doesn’t need to win all the ones he had, because what did he have, 304? And you need 270? He’s not going to lose 35 electoral votes.
The Thankless Task of Being Michael Moore: "He’s been right about everything before, and he really thinks you are living in a bubble."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:37 AM on September 6 [11 favorites]


He’s been right about everything before

Except for, you know, President Romney in 2012.
posted by chris24 at 10:40 AM on September 6 [24 favorites]


Another deeply distressing part of this is that since the DACA recipients had to apply for that status, the government now has a complete list of them and their contact info so it can be easily turned over to ICE and the people who had trusted the Obama administration to do the right thing will now be punished for trying to follow rules and do the right thing themselves.

Echoing this, too. I think this is one of the most devastating effects of Trump's actions on this so far, whatever the eventual outcomes. The massive, deep loss of trust in "the government" will take generations to repair, and it's much worse than merely "don't trust the government because the government is power and power is never trustworthy," it's now "never trust the government because even if it's run by great, moral people now, that will not last and bad people will get control of whatever the good people made."

That's going to be really difficult to repair, and will likely cause damage for decades and in ways we don't expect: first, because the government is us, it entrenches mistrust of one another very deeply; and second, because it will make us very cynical about creating or building anything good and useful and helpful, out of fear that it will be later be used to harm us.

I am incandescent with rage over the threat to revoke DACA--it affects several hundred students on my campus alone*--but today am also trying to cope with a growing despair and sorrow over the fundamental destruction that Trump and his ilk have already wrought, that will take generations to repair, beyond the immediate, more obvious harm and damage they are causing.

* - Because of that, last January, we started many conversations within our governance structures about what to do, what we can do, should DACA be rescinded, should ICE agents show up on campus, etc. One important point of concern was that our database of student information included DACA status, as that was salient for several positive, helpful reasons. I say 'included,' because when I look up student data in the system now, that particular information is no longer available for some reason. Unrelated to this, have I mentioned how much I like our campus IT unit? Those guys are great, smart and hard-working. Interestingly, many of them are from families who immigrated here, or are immigrants themselves.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:41 AM on September 6 [59 favorites]


Fun fact: Maggie Williams and Kellyanne Conway share the same undergrad alma mater.
posted by jgirl at 10:41 AM on September 6


When compiling lists of evil things that Betsy DeVos is connected to, let it never be forgotten that she married a guy whose family fortune was generated by the creation of the Amway pyramid scheme.
posted by xyzzy at 10:41 AM on September 6 [48 favorites]


Democracy Fund poll:
Among all Trump voters, the president’s approval rating remains high: The vast majority, 88%, approved of the job he is doing as president. But there is erosion among voters who backed Barack Obama in 2012 but switched to Trump in 2016. Only 70% of those Obama-Trump voters approved of the job the president is doing. And 22% disapproved — a rate more than twice the 9% of all Trump voters who disapproved.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:42 AM on September 6 [3 favorites]


From that Vulture article:

By now, most Republicans — because they’re only a year away from their election in the House, and a third of the Senate — they have done polling in their districts, and they have learned that being associated with Trump or having Trump as the standard-bearer of their party will not cost them their seat next year. They’ve done such an excellent job of gerrymandering their districts that even though people may not like Trump that much by this time next year, it will not affect them.


Is this true? It seems inconsistent with polling I've seen, and which has been posted here. Also seems inconsistent with a lot of Republicans publicly distancing themselves from DJT's statements.
posted by witchen at 10:45 AM on September 6 [4 favorites]


NYT: Prominent Republicans Urge Supreme Court to End Gerrymandering

Interesting, I think, because Roberts and Kennedy both have reputations of playing the "keeping an eye on history" game. If they get cover from the right - in addition to this brief, there was one from the guy who created the Wisconsin gerrymander! - it may be easier for them to rule against gerrymandering.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:49 AM on September 6 [6 favorites]


"But there is erosion among voters who backed Barack Obama in 2012 but switched to Trump in 2016."

DOES NOT COMPUTE HURTS MY BRAIN WHAT IS WRONG WITH EVERYTHING STOP IT NOW
posted by Hairy Lobster at 10:50 AM on September 6 [10 favorites]


NYT: Trump and Congressional Leaders Strike Deal on Debt Ceiling
President Trump and congressional leaders agreed on Wednesday to increase the debt limit and fund the government until December, after the president sided with Democratic leaders over reluctant Republicans on a deal that would set up a fiscal showdown for year’s end.

Democrats announced the agreement moments after the House passed a first installment of relief from Hurricane Harvey. White House officials then confirmed it.
...
Mr. Schumer and Ms. Pelosi supported the three-month increase along with the hurricane aid to give Democrats leverage later this year when other matters, including a longer-term government funding deal, could be negotiated between both parties.

Mr. Ryan responded by saying the Democrats’ proposal was “unworkable, and it could put in jeopardy the kind of hurricane response we need to have.”

“To play politics with the debt ceiling, like Schumer and Pelosi apparently are doing, I don’t think is a good idea,” Mr. Ryan said.
About an hour after Ryan said that, Trump agreed to the Democratic proposal.
posted by cjelli at 10:50 AM on September 6 [47 favorites]


Nelson, "Ha-ha."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:54 AM on September 6 [5 favorites]


Is this the part of the story when Trump's narcissism finally bites Republicans in the ass?
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:55 AM on September 6 [2 favorites]


So Trump blowing off the entire GOP and siding with Cryin' Chuck and Lyin' Nancy is probably a big deal (although not categorically surprising for Trump) but is the three-month vs 18-month extension that much of a strategic advantage for the Dems?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:57 AM on September 6 [5 favorites]


Is this true? It seems inconsistent with polling I've seen, and which has been posted here. Also seems inconsistent with a lot of Republicans publicly distancing themselves from DJT's statements.

So I still get newsletters and Facebook stuff from the local Republican Party, despite the fact that I resigned my position and have been quite vocal about my opinions on our current "leader". And most of the chatter is about "how dare these people be disloyal to Dear Leader Trump, we will primary them and drive them out of office." Moderate Republicans are being driven out or declining to run because they don't want to deal with the angry hordes. But also -

I think most people who identified as a Republican pre-2016, who lived through that election hoping that Trump would be defeated and normalcy restored, only to see him win and seem permanently to exist, are both exhausted and doesn't know what to do with themselves, politically. I mean, I know I don't. I call senators and such but I don't really know which way to focus my organizing. Inside the Republican Party? With the Libertarians? With a new party entirely? We are largely (and for understandable reasons) distrusted on the Dem side, so our choices in engagement are limited.

So rank-and-file elected Republicans don't need to worry about us. They just need to worry about the loud, noisy people who are going to campaign for or against them. There are enough people not paying enough attention that they're pretty sure they'll be re-elected - but even if they're not, they know that being primaried is a /sure/ way to lose their seat, while not being primaried is only a /possible/ way of losing their seat. And I think they're making that calculation and choosing wrongly.
posted by corb at 10:59 AM on September 6 [27 favorites]


NBC News: Steve King: Dreamers Can ‘Live in the Shadows’ After DACA Ends

"They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows."

Monsters.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:03 AM on September 6 [73 favorites]


Is this true? It seems inconsistent with polling I've seen, and which has been posted here. Also seems inconsistent with a lot of Republicans publicly distancing themselves from DJT's statements.

What's missing is some confirmation that Moore has seen this internal polling, or if he's just talking out his ass.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:03 AM on September 6 [6 favorites]


Monsters.

Yes, just so, of course. Unfortunately, as I believe I've already told Steve King that he can go fuck himself in the eye forever, I don't have much room for escalation.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:05 AM on September 6 [21 favorites]


@Frank Thorp (NBC News): "Aide briefed on WH mtg says @IvankaTrump entered Oval to say hello, and GOP leaders were visibly annoyed by her presence."

Lulz! Go home, Ivanka, your schtick is wearing thin.
posted by lalex at 11:05 AM on September 6 [50 favorites]


In other DACA news, fuck you, Steve King.

“They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows,” King told NBC News when asked about where immigrants would go after their authorizations under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program expire.
posted by hanov3r at 11:06 AM on September 6


In Room 641-A's link to the WaPo story on the Harvey Relief/debt ceiling bill, they mentioned, "the bill could pass without a majority of the majority party — violating an informal rule" and "that most House Republicans could oppose a combined bill, violating an informal rule dictating that only measures supported by a majority of GOP members be brought to a vote."

It kinda pisses me off that they are talking about the so-called Hastert Rule, named after admitted serial child molester J. Dennis Hastert, who was once the Republican Speaker of the House. Seriously, it should never be forgotten the sort of people the Republicans have put into that role, least of all a man who sexually assaulted many children. It kind of bothers me that the WaPo are sanitizing history like that.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:06 AM on September 6 [54 favorites]


I know a lot of people wish Pelosi were more ideologically pure but she is an effing smart player of this game.
posted by Jpfed at 11:06 AM on September 6 [71 favorites]


Prominent Republicans Urge Supreme Court to End Gerrymandering

Based on past performance I'm forced to assume that the republicans involved are worried that the current system might soon benefit Democrats.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:06 AM on September 6 [14 favorites]


They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows.

They didn't come here for anything. They were brought here.

I emigrated to the US as a three-year-old. I know how the Dreamers feel about this country--their country. These people are truly monsters incapable of empathy.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:09 AM on September 6 [82 favorites]


We are largely (and for understandable reasons) distrusted on the Dem side,...

Come on in. The water's fine.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:10 AM on September 6 [6 favorites]


Trump, asked several times at a press gaggle on Air Force One about what he wants to see done with people covered by DACA, has no answer:
Q Do you want a pathway to citizenship for those DACA recipients?

THE PRESIDENT: Thats going to be discussed later, but we want to talk about legal right now. We havent discussed that.

Q What did you mean when you said you wanted to revisit the issue in six months?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, were going to see what happens. I want to see what happens in Congress. I have a feeling thats not going to be necessary. I think theyre going to make a deal. I think Congress really wants to do this.

Q And what would you like to see, Mr. President, in legislation?

THE PRESIDENT: Id like to see something where we have good border security, and we have a great DACA transaction where everybody is happy and now they dont have to worry about it anymore because, obviously, as you know, before, it was not a legal deal. It was a deal that wouldnt have held up and didnt hold up. And even President Obama when he did it, when he signed it, he said this is obviously not something thats -- he called it short-term.

Id like to see a permanent deal, and I think its going to happen. I think were going to have great support from both sides of Congress, and I really believe that Congress is going to work very hard on the DACA agreement and come up with something.
- He 'hasn't discussed' a pathway to citizenship? After campaigning on rescinding DACA? And after, presumably, discussing DACA at length prior to this week's decision? What has he discussed?
- He clearly has no idea what he meant when he said he 'might revisit the issue;' or, he meant nothing in particular when he said it, because he doesn't really understand the issues at all
- 'A great DACA transaction [emphasis mine] where everybody is happy and you don't have to worry about it any more...a permanent deal' makes clear that really has no opinion, plan, or understanding of the issue, or else is actively hiding it; at some point, non-answers need to be taken at face value. If he comes up with a plan in a month or two, that's simply too late: he should get no credit for that.

This, at best, is malfeasance by way of ignorance. At worst, he's not answering because he doesn't want to say what Steve King is saying.
posted by cjelli at 11:11 AM on September 6 [56 favorites]


I'm not a huge fan of obstruction, gerrymandering, racism and such, so count me out on restoring "normalcy". What we have right now is exactly what republicans of all stripes have been working towards for 30 or 40 years.

If the republicans were dogs (and I'm sorry, my four-legged friends, for the comparison), turns out when you catch the car, it's nowhere near as much fun as chasing it.
posted by maxwelton at 11:12 AM on September 6 [7 favorites]


is the three-month vs 18-month extension that much of a strategic advantage for the Dems?

Yes. It's going to keep funding and must pass bills on the legislative calendar pretty much the rest of 2017, eating up a ton of time Republicans wanted to spend on tax "reform". It also sets up Dems with a fiscal cliff situation in December that they can try to use to get a DACA bill passed along with keeping the lights on, Republican hardball style. That's exactly what Ryan and McConnell wanted to avoid. Trump is just hilariously bad at this.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:13 AM on September 6 [64 favorites]


Yes, just so, of course. Unfortunately, as I believe I've already told Steve King that he can go fuck himself in the eye forever, I don't have much room for escalation.

You could wish diphallism upon him.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:17 AM on September 6 [15 favorites]


He 'hasn't discussed' a pathway to citizenship? After campaigning on rescinding DACA? And after, presumably, discussing DACA at length prior to this week's decision? What has he discussed?

I do not think it is presumable that President Trump has ever discussed anything at length.
posted by The World Famous at 11:18 AM on September 6 [11 favorites]


Unfortunately, as I believe I've already told Steve King that he can go fuck himself in the eye forever, I don't have much room for escalation.

Eyes, as I recall, generally come in pairs.

And there are more holes than that in his head, not even counting the ones he drilled himself.
posted by delfin at 11:19 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]


Echoing what corb said, I know several "liberal" Republicans here in liberal Massachusetts, where it's hard to be anything more. They describe themselves as "fiscally conservative, socially liberal," i.e. don't believe in welfare "handouts" but are fine with everything else, gay marriage, abortions, etc. They don't know what to do either, except continue to take abuse from bleeding liberals and say "yeah, I know, I don't like him either." I wish they had more of a voice and/or spine to take the party back from the crazies.

This, at best, is malfeasance by way of ignorance. At worst, he's not answering because he doesn't want to say what Steve King is saying.

No, at worst, he has no idea what he's talking about and is just talking out of his ass until his next golf game or tv show. Why does the media keep asking him questions that they know he can't answer? Why can't they focus instead on LOOK WHAT A COMPLETE IDIOT THIS IS LET'S GET RID OF HIM? They are wasting their time continuing to expect that he's going to act presidential.
posted by Melismata at 11:19 AM on September 6 [7 favorites]


Sure would be nice if Steve King had to live in the shadows. If he couldn't lead a normal, open life; if he were afraid to be noticed by the local government or even seen in public; if he knew that at any time he could be grabbed by quasi-military thugs, imprisoned/enslaved/tortured in a camp, and then deported to a country where he did not speak the language, there to live out his days in poverty and danger, never to see his family again. It's what he came here to do, after all.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:20 AM on September 6 [36 favorites]


@jdawsey1: Democratic aide just told me they are wary of celebrating deal too much publicly because Trump might see it & grow angry or change his mind.

As much as it is utterly irresponsible governing to raise the debit ceiling for only three months, it's a hell of a play by Pelosi and Schumer to ensure that Democrats continue to have complete leverage over everything in three months. And it's entirely of the Republicans own making: they don't have the votes to avoid default on their own. Perpetual crisis mode is bad for everyone, but if we're going to have it, the game is being played well here. The question is whether Trump did this to spite Ryan and McConnell, or whether he just honestly has no idea what he did.

But meanwhile, Peter Sullivan reports that McCain backs Graham-Cassidy ObamaCare repeal effort and his whole push for regular order doesn't mean anything. It's not clear that this is going to be a thing, the GOP leadership hasn't shown much in the way of interest right now, but if the Governors start making noise, something could start to happen here. However, McCain notably refused to say whether he would back the bill under reconciliation.

@Frank Thorp (NBC News): "Aide briefed on WH mtg says @IvankaTrump entered Oval to say hello, and GOP leaders were visibly annoyed by her presence."

@swin24: There's one Hill aide telling every dc reporter who will listen about @IvankaTrump butting in on the meeting & the subsequent "careening" [off topic]

I do think it's pretty hilarious that there's one aide shopping this story everywhere. Hilariously great.
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on September 6 [38 favorites]


Why does the media keep asking him questions that they know he can't answer? Why can't they focus instead on LOOK WHAT A COMPLETE IDIOT THIS IS LET'S GET RID OF HIM?

asking him these questions is an effective way to demonstrate what a complete idiot he is.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:27 AM on September 6 [17 favorites]


Trump Sides With Democrats In Deal On Storm Relief And Fiscal Deadlines (Sept. 6, 2017)
"We discussed that also today, and Chuck and Nancy would like to see something happen, and so do I,"Trump said. "And I said if we can get something to happen, we're going to sign it and we're going to make a lot of happy people."

Pelosi and Schumer said in their statement that "we also made it clear that we strongly believe the DREAM Act must come to the floor and pass as soon as possible and we will not rest until we get this done."
Up next: full press on DREAM Act support from the Dems?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:27 AM on September 6 [6 favorites]


"They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows."

I realize I'm used to reading badness into everything that jackwagons like King say, but he's saying that immigrants are cockroaches here, isn't he? Like, really loudly blowing into the dogwhistle so it's still kinda audible to regular humans too?
posted by Etrigan at 11:27 AM on September 6 [22 favorites]


He "Hasn't discussed" it = his handler(s) hasn't told him what to say, obviously.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 11:28 AM on September 6 [3 favorites]


I do think it's pretty hilarious that there's one aide shopping this [negative Ivanka] story everywhere. Hilariously great.

In my head, it's Jared.
posted by chris24 at 11:31 AM on September 6 [13 favorites]


New Mexico Attorney General Pledges To Block Trump's Action On DACA (NPR, Sept. 5, 2017) -- NPR's Robert Siegel talks with New Mexico Attorney General Hector Balderas, a Democrat, who says he will use "all means necessary" to block President Trump's action on DACA
SIEGEL: And in your case, what does all means necessary mean?

BALDERAS: Well, I do believe that there will be various states attorneys general across the country that will take legal action to defend the DREAMers. They are as American as Melania Trump. They have complied with rules. And more importantly, this is a much broader debate. Rather than immigration, this is about protecting the American dream and the Constitution.
Daaamn, Balderas!
posted by filthy light thief at 11:32 AM on September 6 [89 favorites]


You know, I think supporting DACA is a start, but since we're pushing, let's push for a full path to citizenship for the Dreamers. If they're citizens, they can't be treated like political footballs by the Republicans anymore. This is their country, too. DACA doesn't go far enough.

Up next: full press on DREAM Act support from the Dems?

Again, yes, an excellent start. Still, permanent residency isn't the same as citizenship. Let's push for the whole ball of wax.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:32 AM on September 6 [31 favorites]


They came here to live in the shadows and we’re not denying them that opportunity to live in the shadows

In the original German: "Sie sind willkommen in der Nacht und Nebel zu leben."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:32 AM on September 6 [25 favorites]


he's saying that immigrants are cockroaches here, isn't he?

Yes, just this. Really — not to be hyperbolic — we're just the tiniest smidge away from the kind of radically dehumanizing cockroach/rat/virus/swarming filth rhetoric that's well-known as a leading indicator of the slide toward genocide. We need to watch this kind of public speech with the most exceeding care, and identify and shame those responsible for it. It's unbecoming of any of us, let alone someone charged with the solemn duty of representing their fellow citizens.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:33 AM on September 6 [69 favorites]


I know how and why Ivanka is laying low, but I find it more conspicuous that Jared, who was last seen bringing peace to the middle East, has been MIA.

I also think it's interesting that Ivana hasn't said a peep in defense of her notorious and awful children.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:34 AM on September 6 [2 favorites]


Based on past performance I'm forced to assume that the republicans involved are worried that the current system might soon benefit Democrats.

They're not expressing a newly found commitment to the principle of fairness in elections, that's for sure.
posted by scalefree at 11:35 AM on September 6 [3 favorites]


Well, I do believe that there will be various states attorneys general

States attorneys general various, surely.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:37 AM on September 6 [17 favorites]


Accidental shade for days from NPR: Correction: An earlier tweet about the hurricane relief deal mistakenly identified Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer as Majority Leader.

This whole deal is going to blow up in a billion pieces once Trump realizes what he did, right?
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on September 6 [10 favorites]


Maybe if Dems retake the House in 2018 we can trick him into supporting single payer. The "best case" argument for Trump from the left prior to the election was that he was stupid and pliable. Today is the first time that argument has seen any life since he's been in office. Chip away at the white nationalists around him and maybe there's a slimmer of hope through stupidity after all.

At least until impeachment begins.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:37 AM on September 6 [5 favorites]


Echoing what corb said, I know several "liberal" Republicans here in liberal Massachusetts, where it's hard to be anything more. They describe themselves as "fiscally conservative, socially liberal," i.e. don't believe in welfare "handouts" but are fine with everything else, gay marriage, abortions, etc. They don't know what to do either, except continue to take abuse from bleeding liberals and say "yeah, I know, I don't like him either."

...they could just not be Republicans anymore. I mean, it's a party with Steve King in it, a party that David Duke likes, a party that is still in lockstep behind Trump regardless of what they say on the network shows to show how "concerned" they are.

I wish they had more of a voice and/or spine to take the party back from the crazies.

Sometimes you need to stop throwing good money out with the bad. It's the same reason a lot of people turn away from the conservative Evangelical churches that make up the bigoted base that is the Republican party. (I'm using "you" here as a general, not specific pronoun.)

The longer you stick with the brand, the harder it will be to clean the rot off you.

You don't even have to make a big deal about it. Just quietly drop party registration. Stop signing up for Republican mailing lists and stop sending them money. Be lapsed about it, and then later move on to something else.

Because the longer you support them, even quietly, by just looking the other way, by sending money while the nasties hollow out the rest like a skin suit, the longer you give them cover. You yourself will become dignity wraiths because they're using your goodness as cover for their hate.
posted by anem0ne at 11:40 AM on September 6 [46 favorites]


a slimmer of hope

:(
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:42 AM on September 6 [6 favorites]


This whole deal is going to blow up in a billion pieces once Trump realizes what he did, right?

I'm also curious whether it's going to blow up once the House and Senate realize what Trump agreed to; I doubt there's actually going to be a leadership fight over this, but this is absolutely the sort of thing that leads to a leadership challenge -- it's the same kind of fight that led to Boehner stepping down. To be clear: I don't think we're about to see the end of Ryan or McConnell, but this can't be sitting well with their colleagues, and it doesn't bode well for December.
posted by cjelli at 11:45 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]


they could just not be Republicans anymore.

Hear, hear. I left back before W was the standard bearer. I was appalled then at the way the party was becoming a mouthpiece for the Xian right. My last event as a Republican was over 20 years ago, a conference where 1) we had to sit through an endless prayer about Jesus, with no acknowledgment of the right to think differently about religion and then 2) we were treated to a speaker who said Joe McCarthy was right. I gave my loudest Boston style hiss and stalked out. And that was it for me. How anyone in the party can endure the naked racism these days is beyond me.
posted by bearwife at 11:45 AM on September 6 [43 favorites]


it doesn't bode well for December.

To not abuse the edit window: doesn't bode well for the Republican leadership in December, when they get to have this very same debate all over again.

It bodes very well to everyone who wants to see the Republican agenda stalled indefinitely.
posted by cjelli at 11:47 AM on September 6 [14 favorites]


I was appalled then at the way the party was becoming a mouthpiece for the Xian right. My last event as a Republican was over 20 years ago, a conference where 1) we had to sit through an endless prayer about Jesus, with no acknowledgment of the right to think differently about religion and then 2) we were treated to a speaker who said Joe McCarthy was right. I gave my loudest Boston style hiss and stalked out. And that was it for me. How anyone in the party can endure the naked racism these days is beyond me.

Well, it's easy. Apparently it's just to sit there and "take abuse from liberals" and wring hands being all McCain-y, because there are obviously no other options.

It does strike me that maybe if they weren't Republican anymore, the "abuse from liberals" might taper off, if that's really important to them, but I can't say anything about their lived experience or whether that's more painful than being a martyr for monsters who really do want to shred their dignity.
posted by anem0ne at 11:50 AM on September 6 [4 favorites]


And also bodes very well for those who enjoy seeing fractures in the GOP caucus multiply and deepen. This was was a pretty good move by Dem leadership today!
posted by notyou at 11:50 AM on September 6 [2 favorites]


Scholars Say White Supremacists ... Got History Wrong (NPR, Sept. 4, 2017 -- title edited for accuracy, and humor) -- White supremacists using Crusaders' crosses and other medieval imagery on their homemade shields say the time period is an ideal of a white Europe. But medieval scholars say the white supremacists are wrong and the scholars are fighting back.
LISA FAGIN DAVIS: There was one young man who was carrying a shield with a black spread eagle that was clearly co-opted from either the Holy Roman Empire or - there's actually a saint. And it's kind of ironic. He's an African saint who carries that standard. And I suspect the gentleman carrying the shield didn't realize that.

ULABY: That was St. Maurice, revered during the medieval period. He came from Egypt. After Charlottesville, Davis and her colleagues published a statement on the Medieval Academy blog.

DAVIS: (Reading) As scholars of the medieval world, we're disturbed by the use of a nostalgic but inaccurate myth of the Middle Ages by racist movements in the United States.
Read more from Medievalists Respond to Charlottesville, a blog post from The Medieval Academy Blog, posted on Aug. 18, 2017.

And there's a great article titled SIGILLUM SECRETUM (Secret Seal): On the image of the Blackamoor in European Heraldry by Mario de Valdes y Cocom on PBS Frontline:
In addition to St. Maurice, there is also another figure connected to the blackamoor coat of arms. It is the semi-mythical Negus (emperor) of Ethiopia, Prester John. To Otto von Freising an Imperial Hohenstauffen Prince Bishop of the 12th century who was tired and torn by the endless struggle between Church and State, this black man who was both priest and king and ruled a land of peace and plenty at the edge of the world became the personification of the ideal state. To this day the arms of the see of Freising is the bust of a crowned blackamoor.
...
The relationship of the black image to the concept of justice was nowhere more politically utilized than with the Holy Roman emperors of the Hohenstauffern dynasty. Indeed, it would appear that the sable blazon of the imperial eagle and that of the moor's head were meant to be perceived as synonymous. The simple headbands worn by both are, as a matter of fact, identical and, interestingly enough, nothing less, despite the simplicity of the design, than the imperial diadem' of ancient Rome. Also interesting is the fantastic coat of arms attributed to Ethiopia by the heralds of the middle ages. For like the bicephalic bird of the Holy Roman Empire, Ethiopia bore a 'v' shaped emblem with a blackamoor's head 'torsed' at the end of each arm.
(Emphasis mine) That double-headed eagle is representative of justice, and the "German" image was inspired by an Ethiopian saint. So next time you see a Nazi with the double-headed or imperial eagle, the Reichsadler, you can ask them if they're also a fan of Saint Maurice, the Christian from Ethiopia.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:51 AM on September 6 [44 favorites]


Also, all of this "bodes well for anyone not Republican" stuff strikes me a lot like "this is good for bitcoin", but I'm not sure whether it's because I'm just resigned to the expectation that things will somehow just get worse or if it's because it's an accurate description of reality.
posted by anem0ne at 11:53 AM on September 6 [2 favorites]


All the "boding" leaves us amateur political prognosticators a way to wiggle out when it all goes to shit after this evening's tweetstorm.
posted by notyou at 11:55 AM on September 6 [3 favorites]


You don't even have to make a big deal about it. Just quietly drop party registration. Stop signing up for Republican mailing lists and stop sending them money. Be lapsed about it, and then later move on to something else

That's what a lot of us are doing, but what I'm saying is I think it's ultimately a waste of our time, skills, and effort, and I wish there were a better way for us to be politically involved post-Trump.

To give a concrete example: just this past month, I got a phone call from a Republican friend who is running for a nonpartisan tiny local office. This is the sort of office that usually doesn't have much competition, and usually everyone is putting their energies elsewhere.

This event turned out to be the most well-heeled, best-attended, TinyLocal event that I have ever seen in the history of organizing, because all the people that usually organize together for state or national candidates are so exhausted and angry with the Party that these tiny, nonpartisan offices are the only places they can sanely spend their time and effort. Because a lot of these connections are local and loyal, the people who usually turn these hard workers out for big races are moving them to small ones.

And yeah, you can raise a cheer and say "sweet, they won't be working on the 2018 election", and that is true, but if the 2016 election showed us anything, it's that it's not enough for that 10% or whatever the number is of Republicans to just stop voting Republican and kind of drop out - if they're not actively involved in something else, there's enough of a gap that the enemy can win.

And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either."
posted by corb at 11:56 AM on September 6 [13 favorites]


this "bodes well for anyone not Republican" stuff strikes me a lot like "this is good for bitcoin"

What do you mean? Bitcoin's doing extraordinarily well. Wish I had some.
posted by Coventry at 11:56 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]


And a reminder: Trump's Nominee To Be USDA's Chief Scientist Is Not A Scientist, but a racist, homophobic talk radio host and blogger. (NPR, Sept. 4, 2017)

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the Sam Clovis factor: Scientist? No. Skilled in the science of influencing Trump? Yes. (Helena Bottemiller Evich for Politico, July 30, 2017)
These days in Washington, Clovis’ critics are obsessing over what he is not: He's not an agricultural scientist, nor is he an agricultural economist, nor does he appear to be qualified for a position that, by law, must be drawn from “among distinguished scientists with specialized training or significant experience in agricultural research, education and economics.”

Senate Democrats, activists deeply concerned about climate change and left-leaning science groups predictably seized on Clovis’ weak credentials to attack his selection as yet another sign the Trump administration rejects science-based policymaking and endangers the integrity of federal research.

But none of that has deterred the heavyweights in the agriculture industry, who believe, in effect, that Clovis’ political savvy is more important than his résumé.
...
What Clovis lacks in science chops, he makes up for in knowing — really understanding — Trump. Back in April, when Trump was on the verge of withdrawing the U.S. from NAFTA, it was widely reported that Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue helped walk the president away from the ledge by showing up at an Oval Office meeting with a map of the U.S. that pointed out areas that would be most harmed by an abrupt withdrawal — many of them counties and states that voted for Trump, and many of them rural.

It was actually Clovis who prepped Perdue for the meeting and Clovis who suggested the secretary take along the map to drive home his point in a visual, high-impact way, multiple sources with knowledge of the exchange said. Clovis did not respond to multiple inquiries from POLITICO.

“It shows that I do have a very big farmer base, which is good,” Trump later recalled about the meeting and the map, after deciding to drop a planned executive order that would have pulled the U.S. from the free trade deal with Mexico and Canada, which has been a boon for agriculture. “They like Trump, but I like them, and I'm going to help them.”
By law, you say? Pish posh, that's just another bit of unnecessary bureaucracy getting in the way of doing business.

And it appears we should really focus our push-back on Trump actions by preparing maps of how his plans would impact those poor, rural voters who support him, especially when they don't have the dough to play a few rounds of golf at his resorts.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:59 AM on September 6 [17 favorites]


Chrysostom: "Yes, this is an excellent Dem pickup opportunity. Also, anecdotally, one high-profile retirement often seems to trigger others to follow suit."

Oh, so further on this - the House currently has eight GOP Reps in Obama-Obama-Clinton districts. There have been two retirement announcements from them so far (Reichert, Ros-Lehtinen). Six to go!

(Denham, Valada, Coffman, Curbelo, Paulsen, Katko)
posted by Chrysostom at 12:01 PM on September 6 [10 favorites]


showing up at an Oval Office meeting with a map of the U.S.

Apparently it's just that easy. Whenever Trump gets a bad idea, all we need is for someone to point at a map and say "Ooh, they'll really hate that in Ohio, which you won," and he'll stop.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:05 PM on September 6 [7 favorites]


Axios's Jonathan Swan on Twitter: Just spoke to a top Republican close to leadership about Trump's decision. Here's what they said:
"Victory. They win the politics of DACA and leverage on debt in the winter.
The fate is sealed - DACA will be reauthorized without strings, Schumer will insert himself into all negotiations in the winter, including tax, spending and immigration."
posted by scalefree at 12:07 PM on September 6 [28 favorites]


This picture of Schumer and Trump, by Alex Wong at Getty, shot spy style through the Oval Office window and a plant, it looks like, is everything.
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on September 6 [38 favorites]


And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either."

There are two major parties, and one of them is opposed to Trumpism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:12 PM on September 6 [38 favorites]


I'd bet any amount of money Lieberman in 2009 was substantially more liberal than several sitting Democratic Senators in 2017.

Good grief! Before someone else claims your life savings, I'll just point out that Lieberman campaigned for John McCain and Sarah effing Palin in 2008. There are no sitting Democratic Senators who campaigned for Donald Trump.

I realize you have an ax to grind about Democrats not being as progressive as you might like but you may want to dial back a bit on the hyperbolic statements before completely destroying your credibility.
posted by JackFlash at 12:13 PM on September 6 [60 favorites]


What do you mean? Bitcoin's doing extraordinarily well. Wish I had some.

because for a long while it was a running joke that any time an article came out saying something bad about bitcoin, or really anything about blockchains or online banking or whatever, someone would come in and say "this is actually good for bitcoin".

yes, i realize it's a deep cut and a bit outdated, but wait until you hear the hella sick reference i have teed up linking murphy brown's motherhood and the panic over american morals, and how that's actually good for bitcoin and bodes well for dems in december

posted by anem0ne at 12:15 PM on September 6 [17 favorites]


This picture of Schumer and Trump, via Jeremy Diamond, shot spy style through the Oval Office window and a plant, it looks like, is everything.

Trump is a New Yorker and sees himself as a 'deal-maker' not an ideologue. He probably feels he has a lot more in common with Chuck Schumer than with Mitch McConnell (who clearly can't stand him and doesn't hide it).
posted by leotrotsky at 12:15 PM on September 6 [6 favorites]


3. The DACA kids are way, way braver than me and have dealt with some shit. It really made me think, too, since I never even consider anyone's status (why would I? It matters zero percents to my life) about how lots of people are dealing with bullshit while doing all the regular life stuff, working, going to school, etc, and how exhausting it must be. -- Frowner

I went to the DACA rally* here in Portland last night and the DACA recipients were inspiring. One speaker said it's important to remember all 800K of them even those who aren't doctors and lawyers and other professionals because ALL of them are important. I'm proud of every single last one of them.

*our rally had drummers and dancers instead of a brass band.
posted by vespabelle at 12:17 PM on September 6 [20 favorites]


This picture of Schumer and Trump, via Jeremy Diamond, shot spy style through the Oval Office window and a plant, it looks like, is everything.

The replies, good lord. I always thought I'd get some distant satisfaction out of seeing a very powerful man subjected to the same "Trump is putting his hands all over him and he's not screaming, so he must be enjoying it" inferences women get, but I don't. he is doing the kind of finger-in-the-face emphatic pointing that I bet Trump does himself all the time but hates having done to him. and Trump is trying to squeeze him to death with hands tragically too small for the purposes of intimidation for which they are deployed.

the only iconic thing about it is that awful fake smile Trump does. so wide it shuts his eyes and looks like it hurts him. probably does.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:18 PM on September 6 [4 favorites]


There really is a tweet for everything.

@realDonaldTrump (Jan 22 2013): The worst negotiators in history (otherwise known as Republicans) have just offered to suspend debt ceiling for four months. Pathetic!
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on September 6 [70 favorites]


corb: "And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either.""

Conservative American thought is completely co-opted by cryptoracism. There are no major Republican or American conservative positions that have been arrived at without a heaping dose of "welfare queens" and "handouts". The best thing American conservatives can do is just stay home and unlearn for a while before they rejoin the public sphere as decent people.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:25 PM on September 6 [38 favorites]


Natasha Bertrand in Business Insider: Top Trump lawyer in private email exchange: 'Me and Kelly' are the 'adults in the room'
"I'm probably going to lose access to affordable healthcare, ty [thank you]," Jetton wrote, adding that Trump is "screwing everyday Americans" and that "I don't have to tell you that, it's right there slapping you across the face."

Cobb replied: "Dude U have no idea! I walked away from $4 million annually to do this, had to sell my entire retirement account for major capital losses and lost a s---load to try to protect the third pillar of democracy. Your hate I will never understand as an American. Hope you get help!"

Jetton later told Business Insider that "citing the millions of dollars that you gave up to work for Trump is as out of touch and tone deaf as hashtagging name brands in your Instagram and class-shaming your critics." (Jetton was referring to comments made by Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin's wife on Instagram last month.)

Asked later by Jetton to "set the record straight" and explain how Cobb is "justifying" his role at the White House to himself and others, Cobb replied he "can say assertively [that] more adults in the room will be better. Me and Kelly among others."
Soo....turns out Ty Cobb--lol--replies to random-ass emails from his WH account. Reminds of me of Marc Kassowtiz who kept running his mouth in ways unhelpful to the client. Cobb's a damned fool if he's trying to stay on as T's lawyer or a genius if he's trying to get fired. It still astounds me that people all around T talk about him like a child that has to be managed.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:27 PM on September 6 [34 favorites]


I realize you have an ax to grind about Democrats not being as progressive as you might like but you may want to dial back a bit on the hyperbolic statements

I accept cash, check and bitcoin.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:32 PM on September 6 [4 favorites]


does time spent arguing with randos on the internet count as billable hours or something
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:34 PM on September 6 [20 favorites]


I mean, I don't actually read the interaction between Trump and Schumer as necessarily being hostile? Like, I don't have a lot of direct personal experience with national-level politicans, but I do have a lot of experience with real estate developers, and everything about that scene -- the grips, the finger in the face, the little we can see of Trump's expression and Schumer's expression?

I have no way of knowing, but man, I bet you that Schumer played a schmoozy, Brooklyn-boy-made-good, "We're dealmakers from the greatest city on earth! Let's show these hicks how New Yorkers cut a deal!" shtick to the hilt. And Trump just ate it up with a spoon, not only because it played to his ego, not only because it played to his distaste for Republican leadership, but it felt so fucking familiar and comfortable to him.

tl;dr: THANKS YOU OLD SCHMOOZY DOG THANKS FOR TAKING ONE FOR THE TEAM AND FUCKING SELLING DONALD TRUMP THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:35 PM on September 6 [99 favorites]


Soo....turns out Ty Cobb--lol--replies to random-ass emails from his WH account.

Do not go to Lemon-Lyman dot com!
posted by scalefree at 12:40 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


does time spent arguing with randos on the internet count as billable hours or something

If it's not I've wasted my life.
posted by Talez at 12:41 PM on September 6 [29 favorites]


>>Axios's Jonathan Swan on Twitter: Just spoke to a top Republican close to leadership about Trump's decision. Here's what they said:

Umm. So this is one of those things Twitter does that is terrible, but, what he tweeted was a screenshot of a phone screen; if you don't actually click on the picture itself, the top and bottom of the image are cropped off by default on Twitter. As it turns out, in this case that crops out the beginning of the quote. Here's the full quote, which makes a lot more sense than a top Republican starting out with "Victory." to describe things:

"Dems bluffed their way into total victory. They win the politics of DACA and leverage on debt in the winter. The fate is sealed - DACA will be reauthorized without strings, Schumer will insert himself into all negotiations in the winter, including tax, spending and immigration."
posted by mstokes650 at 12:42 PM on September 6 [34 favorites]


Trump: “We agreed to a three-month extension on debt ceiling, which they consider to be sacred — very important — always we’ll agree on debt ceiling automatically because of the importance of it.”

You're not supposed to say that in your outdoor voice, Donald...
posted by BungaDunga at 12:45 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


zachlipton: There really is a tweet for everything.

Oh, I agree. Has anyone tried to catalog all of Trump's tweets by topic? With such a catalog, you could quickly sub-tweet his every new proclamation with a retweet of his own (I think I'm using the terminology right here, but I don't really know TBH).

Maybe even set up a bot as GhostOfDJTPast or something and automate the replies (with date stamps and links to his original tweets, natch).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:47 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


THE PRESIDENT: Thats going to be discussed later, but we want to talk about legal right now. We havent discussed that.

ME:
posted by Room 641-A at 12:48 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


Umm. So this is one of those things Twitter does that is terrible, but, what he tweeted was a screenshot of a phone screen; if you don't actually click on the picture itself, the top and bottom of the image are cropped off by default on Twitter.

The wording I saw did seem a bit awkward. Thanks for the correction.
posted by scalefree at 12:48 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


Trump! Master Negotiator!
Schumer, probably surprised it was so easy. Probably a little embarrassed.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:50 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


Has anyone tried to catalog all of Trump's tweets by topic?

Trump Twitter Archive
posted by Room 641-A at 12:51 PM on September 6 [4 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Will be going to North Dakota today to discuss tax reform and tax cuts. We are the highest taxed nation in the world - that will change.

No. No, we aren't. Please stop saying that.

Aruba is the highest taxed nation in the world, at a hair under 59%. The USA isn't even in the top 10.
posted by hanov3r at 1:02 PM on September 6 [56 favorites]


However, McCain notably refused to say whether he would back the bill under reconciliation.

That's the key thing, I think. We know McCain didn't vote NO on the last Obamacare repeal because of the substance, he voted NO based on the complete abandonment of regular order. I don't particularly care what he wants to become law if it has no chance of passing under regular order... so we'll see. If he caved on the process it would be the most shocking, unprecedented, and massive surrender that I can think of. Like if the 101st airborne at Bastogne had followed up the NUTS message an hour later with WE SURRENDER PLEASE BRING CAKE.

I know some of y'all will be like "of course he's going to abjectedly surrender lol mccain" but we'll see. I've also heard a lot of discussion of this without seeing any indication the leadership is looking to get back into this fight already.
posted by Justinian at 1:03 PM on September 6 [6 favorites]


Dear Republicans: just stop. Stop.

Candidate for Charlotte Mayor Puts "White" As One of Her Qualifications
posted by TwoStride at 1:04 PM on September 6 [10 favorites]


T.D. Strange: That's exactly what Ryan and McConnell wanted to avoid. Trump is just hilariously bad at this.

Or he's finally pivoting, and flips to be a Democrat again? Hahahahahahaha .... I know, right?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:05 PM on September 6


Democrats are finally figuring out that Trump is really as stupid as he looks and you can play zany tricks on him like he's Elmer Fudd.
posted by theodolite at 1:12 PM on September 6 [74 favorites]


WaPo, Carol D. Leonnig, Tom Hamburger and Rosalind S. Helderman, Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election
Representatives of Facebook told congressional investigators Wednesday that it has discovered it sold ads during the U.S. presidential election to a shadowy Russian company seeking to target voters, according to several people familiar with the company’s findings.

Facebook officials reported that they traced the ad sales, totaling $100,000, to a Russian “troll farm” with a history of pushing pro-Kremlin propaganda, these people said.

A small portion of the ads, which began in the summer of 2015, directly named Republican nominee Donald Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton, the people said. Most of the ads focused on pumping politically divisive issues such as gun rights and immigration fears, as well as gay rights and racial discrimination.
We absolutely need, immediately, total transparency on online political ads and spending, so this stuff can be out in the open.

Also, a few quick personnel announcements. Axios reports that Bannon's political advisor Andy Surabian is out; he'll become an advisor to Great America Alliance (linked with the Great America PAC). This sets up Trump's PAC to funnel money to achieve Bannon's aims, including attacking GOP reps he doesn't like. And Politico reports that Mercedes Schlapp is expected to join the White House communications staff. She's a Fox pundit and runs a PR firm and did Spanish-language media for the Bush Administration. Trump likes how she and her husband (American Conservative Union chairman Matthew Schlapp) defend him on TV.

Trump's North Dakota speech should be available on this stream. We've got a military band again, because why the heck not?

I know some of y'all will be like "of course he's going to abjectedly surrender lol mccain" but we'll see.

I mean, he said "If it's not through regular order than it's a mistake, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for it," so yeah, there's a distinct possibility he might do what he says if given the opportunity.
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on September 6 [24 favorites]


Here Are 4 Options Congress Could Take On DACA (Jessica Taylor for NPR, Sept. 6, 2017)

- Dream Act, sponsored by Sens. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.
Qualifications for permanent status in the Dream Act include having lived in the U.S. for a certain length of time and meeting certain educational, work or military service requirements. It would take at least 13 years for those eligible to achieve citizenship.

However, the White House has already signaled it won't support this bill: When Graham and Durbin proposed it in July, Trump's legislative affairs director, Marc Short, said, "I think that the administration has opposed the Dream Act and likely will be consistent on that."
Way to hedge your bets, Marc Short. "I think Trump is likely to be consistent" is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ in words.

- Recognizing America's Children Act, sponsored by Rep. Carlos Curbelo, R-Fla.
"The bill provides immigrants that have been vetted by the Department of Homeland Security with three pathways toward legalization: higher education, service in the armed forces or work authorization. Following a 5-year conditional status, these immigrants would be able to reapply for a 5-year permanent status," Curbelo said in a press release announcing the bill earlier this year. At the end of their permanent status — after a total of 10 years, according to the NILC — DREAMers could apply for citizenship.
- The American Hope Act, sponsored by Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill.
Gutierrez introduced this bill in July, flanked by the Congressional Hispanic Caucus; 112 Democrats already had signed on to cosponsor his legislation.

To be eligible, people must have entered the U.S. before age 18. The bill does not include any work, education or military requirements but does reject people who have been convicted of certain crimes, according to the NILC.

It also provides the fastest path to citizenship. Those eligible can apply for conditional permanent residency, valid for up to eight years, and after three years can apply for lawful permanent residence status. After a total of five years, they can apply for U.S. citizenship.
- BRIDGE Act, sponsored by Rep. Mike Coffman, R-Colo.
As soon as news broke over the weekend that Trump was going to end DACA, Coffman announced he planned to file a discharge petition to get his bill to the House floor. The rarely used method requires a simple majority of signatories to circumvent party leaders and bring a bill up for a vote by the full House.

The BRIDGE Act — which stands for Bar Removal of Individuals Who Dream and Grow our Economy — was proposed back in January and essentially would codify the current DACA program into law and extend it for three years, allowing Congress more time to come up with a comprehensive, long-term solution for overhauling the nation's immigration laws.

Unlike the other bills in Congress, it does not include a path to citizenship.
Bold vision, Coffman. Let's bar their expulsion, but keep them here as second-class citizens.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:14 PM on September 6 [21 favorites]


Oh, Boo-Hoo: Pollster Believes Evangelicals Back Trump Out of "Grief"
The usually astute Greg Sargent misses the mark, I think when he recommends this USA Today op-ed by Robert P. Jones, CEO of the Public Religion Research Institute, on the reasons evangelicals back Donald Trump: [...]

Jones evokes Elizabeth Kübler-Ross's five stages of grief -- denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. [...]

But why is it inevitable that white evangelicals would cling to Trump if he doesn't share many of the values they profess? Why can't they say, as they said during the presidency of Barack Obama (who I think shares more of their values, but never mind), that the president simply isn't on their side? Why can't they look to the future, hopeful of a restoration when Trump is gone? [...]

And why is it inevitable that a group in decline must embrace a grotesque, pathological, extremist leader? Think about Southern Democrats. Their influence is in decline. In the years following the Civil Rights era, they sent two leaders to the White House, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, and nearly sent a third, Al Gore. They elected senators and governors. And then their power all but vanished.

They haven't embraced an angry, thuggish fraudster and demagogue. They've just soldiered on, patiently waiting for a time when they can regain some political influence. They've had a few small victories, such as electing the current governor of North Carolina (although not a legislature that will work with him). But they're not acting out of "desperation."

Conservative white evangelicals believe they should rule America. Trump promises that they can do that with him in the White House. They're not grieving -- they're in denial. They can't accept that they have to share America with the rest of us.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:16 PM on September 6 [20 favorites]


I bet you that Schumer played a schmoozy, Brooklyn-boy-made-good, "We're dealmakers from the greatest city on earth! Let's show these hicks how New Yorkers cut a deal!" shtick to the hilt. And Trump just ate it up with a spoon

I suspect that he's looking for new friends. His supporter base (the immediate ones, not the ones who cheer during rallies) is smaller, and he wants to Talk Important Business with people who will tell him he's awesome.

And we've seen from his phone transcripts - he's actually a pushover in deals. He'll agree to anything that sounds reasonable. And "Save the children AND fix the debt problem!" sounds great. He wants to be on record as the guy who saved children! And the guy who fixed debts! (Debts, debt ceiling, whatever. Debt problem, and he's fixing it!)

He's very susceptible to pictures and charts - Dems just need to put someone on his wavelength in reach of him to feed him info to counter the Breitbart propaganda. "Hey, mr president, people in [state] hate you - but if you make sure their kids have medical coverage, they'll love you!" "Hey mr president, you're losing the farmer vote. Howsabout a quick executive action to increase infrastructure focus on roads and schools in rural areas?" ... and so on.

And if people complain that it's really really not normal for a president to be making deals with the Minority Leaders in House and Senate... well, he's a maverick! He don' follow no steenkin' rules!
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:18 PM on September 6 [25 favorites]


Or he's finally pivoting, and flips to be a Democrat again?

If the Dems dominate Congress after 2018, he probably will try to, and it might be smart for the Dems to play along instead of handing power to Pence.
posted by Coventry at 1:20 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


They're not grieving -- they're in denial. They can't accept that they have to share America with the rest of us.

I've long thought that the evangelical definition of "we're being oppressed" is "we're required to recognize that other religions exist."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:22 PM on September 6 [29 favorites]


Corb, it strikes me that WA Republicans who are SoMuchNopeTrump might be able to carve space out in the policy arena as a counterweight to the network of institutions and funders and electeds who are fueling some of the most extremist stances. See the Plot Against DACA for an analysis of one policy issue. What's a national issue with state ramifications (or vice versa?) that Trump and regime have been wreaking havoc on?
posted by spamandkimchi at 1:23 PM on September 6


@EricaWerner: Trump tells reporters on AF1 “We had a very good meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer" -- doesn't even mention Ryan, McConnell

@jimpjorps: Chuck Schumer just decided to test out whether "Trump will always agree with the last person to talk to him" worked, and it did
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:23 PM on September 6 [89 favorites]


I've long thought that the evangelical definition of "we're being oppressed" is "we're required to recognize that other religions exist."

"...and we have to let people of other races look us in the eye."
posted by Etrigan at 1:26 PM on September 6 [21 favorites]


All we need to get voting representation for DC is to have someone at a press conference ask, "Mr President, do you believe that your representative in DC should vote to build the wall?"

"What about two senators from DC, should they vote for the wall? And the representative from Puerto Rico?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:27 PM on September 6 [37 favorites]


Harvey Recovery Will Take Time, HUD Secretary Ben Carson Says (NPR, Sept. 6, 2017) -- Rachel Martin talks to Ben Carson, secretary of Housing and Urban Development, about recovery efforts and his department's role in assisting Texas and Louisiana property owners affected by flooding. It starts off well, but then Rachel digs in, and Ben sounds like a smarter Donny.
MARTIN: You say your agency is interested in cutting the red tape that's blocked previous response efforts. I mean, what have been the specific lessons from previous storms - Katrina, Rita, Sandy? Besides - when you say cutting red tape, what specifically is your agency trying to do now that's different?

CARSON: Specifically, we sent many agents out into the field with the specific charge of determining how things can be done as opposed to why that can't be done. If you're familiar with bureaucracies, you know that as soon as you come up with a good idea and you're ready to do something, someone says, oh, you can't do that because of this. And, you know, I hate that.

MARTIN: And so you believe that by putting your agents in the field to just come up with solutions - and then you can just green light them? I mean, there are some real obstacles. There are real reasons that...

CARSON: Obviously, you look at those things. But anybody who's familiar with government bureaucracy knows exactly what I'm talking about.
...
MARTIN: You say you want to cut the red tape, get people back into HUD-supported housing as soon as possible. Are you going to have the funds to do that? The president's proposed budget would cut HUD's spending by $6 billion. Are you concerned that that cut will mean that you can't provide all those people with housing?

CARSON: I think there's a lot of focus on, you know, what's being cut. And, you know, I think, perhaps, we should turn the focus to what is actually happening. Are people actually being helped? Is anybody being thrown out onto the streets? In fact, I think you'll find the answer to those things - no.
...
CARSON: [Responding to questions about Trump's budget with its $6 BILLION in cuts to HUD, a 13.2 percent reduction] Well, again, I would say let's focus on what he's done. I always say to people, the proof is in the pudding. And if down the road, you see that nothing is being accomplished or that we're moving backward, I think there can be a legitimate complaint.

But if in fact things are moving forward - we're getting more done; we're getting more people housed; we're getting a much better handle on the homelessness problem - then I think people ought to be willing to say, yes, that's what's happening.
Yeah, let's just wait to see how HUD is able to operate with fewer staff and $6 billion less in funding, and with significant cuts to maintenance funding.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:28 PM on September 6 [12 favorites]


He's very susceptible to pictures and charts - Dems just need to put someone on his wavelength in reach of him to feed him info to counter the Breitbart propaganda. "Hey, mr president, people in [state] hate you - but if you make sure their kids have medical coverage, they'll love you!" "Hey mr president, you're losing the farmer vote. Howsabout a quick executive action to increase infrastructure focus on roads and schools in rural areas?" ... and so on.

I just had a realization that Trump can't deal with people as actual people, only archetypes.

I can see the Durbs and maybe Tim Kaine have the personality and patience to pull off being the Senate Dem kindergarten teachers. King and Tester are the disappointed dads, and Sheldon Whitehouse can be the fun uncle.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:29 PM on September 6 [10 favorites]


Oh, and how familiar are you with bureaucracy again, Dr. Carson? Does being Director of pediatric neurosurgery at the Johns Hopkins Children’s Center for almost 3 decades mean you have experience with bureaucracy? Sure. But how does that relate to Federal bureaucracy regarding Housing and Urban Development, disaster relief efforts, and so forth? Hmmm...
posted by filthy light thief at 1:32 PM on September 6 [3 favorites]


I've long thought that the evangelical definition of "we're being oppressed" is "we're required to recognize that other religions exist."

and the tenets of our denomination haven't been made law
posted by thelonius at 1:32 PM on September 6 [13 favorites]


Trump has interrupted his tax speech so Ivanka can be invited up on stage. He says people say about him, "he can't be that bad a guy: look at Ivanka." He also says that Ivanka asked him "Daddy, can I go with you? I like that. I said yes you can." (The "I like that" sounded like it was about being called "daddy.") It was really really weird.
posted by zachlipton at 1:34 PM on September 6 [51 favorites]


I've long thought that the evangelical definition of "we're being oppressed" is "we're required to recognize that other religions exist."

I've sort of mentioned in a different thread that the LCMS has a major problem with this, to the point they publicly excoriated a pastor for attending an interfaith service after Sandy Hook where one of his parishoners died. The pastor then had to apologize to the Synod.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:37 PM on September 6 [12 favorites]


A small thing from Massachusetts today: V. A. Shiva Ayyadurai, who wants to run against Elizabeth Warren as "the real Indian" next year, had his libel suit against Techdirt thrown out today. The judge in the case said, among other things, that he failed to prove he really was the father of all e-mail, that Techdirt was protected by the 1st Amendment and Sullivan v. NY Times and that Gawker's decision to settle with him in a similar case after it lost the Hulk Hogan case is not the same as proof he is right.
posted by adamg at 1:37 PM on September 6 [14 favorites]


Just tuned in to the Stupid Show. Trump's ad-libbing a lot—this should be fun horrible.
posted by Rykey at 1:42 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


The Ivanka Trump Guarantee (Lindy West, NYT Op-Ed)
The fact is, the only evidence we have of Ms. Trump’s supposed moderating effects and passion for progressive causes is her word. And, unfortunately for the entire planet, the word of a Trump isn’t worth very much
posted by Room 641-A at 1:51 PM on September 6 [34 favorites]


Trump just now: four basic principles for tax reform:

1. Simplification of the tax code. Somehow we won't have to report any, you know, numbers when we file taxes any more.
2. Tax cuts for middle class families. Biggest since Reagan (applause, applause)
3. Competitive business tax rate. Ideally down to 15%. "You will see a rocket ship" (?!). Business owners would rather spend what they pay in taxes on their employees, dontcha know!
4. End of the "death tax," which is a "tremendous burden" for family farmers and other millionaires.
posted by Rykey at 1:51 PM on September 6 [9 favorites]


I've long thought that the evangelical definition of 'we're being oppressed' is 'we're required to recognize that other religions exist.'

Which is deeply ironic considering that these "founded as a Christian nation" motherfuckers were actually oppressed in the Colonial era. The colonies had official established religions, primarily Congregationalist in the northern colonies and the Church of England in the southern colonies. You paid taxes to the official state church regardless of your own religion (or lack of one). Evangelicals could be and were fined and jailed for their beliefs.

Given than it's very significant that when the United States was founded (both times!) there was a conspicuous lack of an established religion. (And the Bill of Rights has an explicit prohibition against one.) If the Founders wanted to found a Christian nation, they would've done it.

You know who did invoke "the favor and guidance of Almighty God" when they founded their nation? The Confederates.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:52 PM on September 6 [32 favorites]


Daddy, can I go with you? I like that. I said yes you can.

Ew.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:53 PM on September 6 [37 favorites]




"Beautiful new ones?" He said it like a question. Did someone Ron Burgundy the teleprompter?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:56 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


I have no idea if Ivanka "likes to call him Daddy," but I'm positive she knows she can get a lot more out of him if she does.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:57 PM on September 6 [18 favorites]


LOL, not only was the House under Reagan Democratic, but so was the Speaker of the House! —Trump
posted by Rykey at 1:58 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


Not done with healthcare, huh? "One vote away. Can you believe it? One. Vote. We can't let that happen again." I'm hollering at my computer screen.
posted by meowf at 1:58 PM on September 6


Here's video of the Ivanka segment. So incredibly cringeworthy.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


Aw, I remember when my daddy used to call me over and greet me with a nice, firm handshake.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:03 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


Catherine Rampell in the Washington Post: Ivanka Trump has learned well from her father’s cons''
“Ultimately, while I believe the intention was good and agree that pay transparency is important, the proposed policy would not yield the intended results,” her statement said. “We look forward to continuing to work with EEOC, [the Office of Management and Budget], Congress and all relevant stakeholders on robust policies aimed at eliminating the gender wage gap.”

She offered no “robust” substitute policies. But she did offer moms a discount for massage services.

That’s right: On the same day the Trump administration quashed the EEOC rule, Trump International Hotel in Washington tweeted out a special coupon for any parents buying services at The Spa by IVANKA TRUMP™.

At best these about-faces on “women’s issues” are hollow marketing, at worst a con. The game is to say whatever needs to be said to part a mark from her money, and then move on.

It’s a trick Ivanka Trump learned well from her father.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 2:11 PM on September 6 [23 favorites]


I don't understand what's cringeworthy about the Ivanka/Donald interaction. Could someone break it down for me?
posted by Coventry at 2:21 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


Trump: Competitive business tax rate. Ideally down to 15%. "You will see a rocket ship" (?!). Business owners would rather spend what they pay in taxes on their employees, dontcha know!

Trump is an idiot. Apparently he doesn't know the simple fact that employee wages are entirely tax free. Money spent on wages reduces your taxes.

He has the causation completely backwards. Higher tax rates increase investment. Lower tax rates reduce investment.

Here's an example: Let's say the tax rate is 50%, much higher than now. The business has a choice. They can take their profits out of the business as dividends and give half to the government for taxes. Or they can spend their profits on new equipment, new R&D or new employees and keep 100% of it tax free.

The choice is clear. Investments reduce taxes paid. The higher the tax rate, the greater the incentive to reinvest in business expansion to reduce your taxes. Lower tax rates encourage stripping money out of the business as dividends.
posted by JackFlash at 2:21 PM on September 6 [50 favorites]


I don't understand what's cringeworthy about the Ivanka/Donald interaction. Could someone break it down for me?

Primarily, the way Trump pulls her back by the hand for a forced kiss; but also for the vapidity of the statements (both by Trump and Ivanka).
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 2:25 PM on September 6 [8 favorites]


Also, she is a grown women who works in the white House and she's being treated like a five year old.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:26 PM on September 6 [64 favorites]


And the brazen nepotism.
posted by darkstar at 2:31 PM on September 6 [28 favorites]


And the whole 'I love it when she calls me daddy and asks to come on a business trip' bit.
posted by zachlipton at 2:32 PM on September 6 [34 favorites]


And the act of using her to humanize himself.
posted by erisfree at 2:34 PM on September 6 [29 favorites]


Facebook: Russian-linked accounts bought $150,000 in ads during 2016 race (Darren Samuelsohn, Politico)
Facebook found some $100,000 in ad spending from June 2015 through May 2017 connected to about 470 accounts that were deemed as inauthentic and in violation of its internal guidelines. These accounts – associated with about 3,000 ads – were connected to each other “and likely operated out of Russia,” Alex Stamos, Facebook’s chief security officer, wrote in a Wednesday blog post.
Lock Zuck up.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:36 PM on September 6 [49 favorites]


Oops.
posted by Melismata at 2:40 PM on September 6


Well, at least this puts at least one nail in the coffin of his prospective presidential run.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 2:46 PM on September 6 [16 favorites]


I don't understand what's cringeworthy about the Ivanka/Donald interaction. Could someone break it down for me?

There are a lot of speculations about the way that Donald Trump seems to sexualize his daughter and focus and prioritize her. The way that DT calls her "Daddy" seems to at least blur the line between how normal adults speak to their adult children and how people who roleplay the sexualization of that power dynamic tend to say it, in a creepy way.
posted by corb at 2:47 PM on September 6 [13 favorites]


4. End of the "death tax," which is a "tremendous burden" for family farmers and other millionaires.

@lilybatch: When neither the Am Farm Bureau nor NYT has been able to identify a single case of a family farm actually being sold to pay the estate tax.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:52 PM on September 6 [68 favorites]


on the daddy thing: this sums it up pretty well

if you don't want to click through to twitter:
Ariel Dumas (@ArielDumas)

Poll: When is it appropriate to call an adult man "Daddy?"
()during a sex thing
() -
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:56 PM on September 6 [10 favorites]


You almost have to admire the Republicans ability to get middle class and poor people to care about ending estate taxes. It's an impressive display of the power of propaganda and misinformation.
posted by diogenes at 3:00 PM on September 6 [29 favorites]


@lilybatch: When neither the Am Farm Bureau nor NYT has been able to identify a single case of a family farm actually being sold to pay the estate tax.

Huh. Like, ever? Or just under the current law with its $5-plus million exemption? I know families that sold their farms to pay the estate tax back when the exemption was $600k and lower.
posted by The World Famous at 3:05 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


The Senate is not having it with Tillerson's crap. The appropriations bill moving forward doesn't give him the budget cuts he wants, blocks efforts to merge USAID into State, and requires notification and review of any proposed department reorganization plans.

One important thing about the Ty Cobb emails, as flagged by Susan Hennessey: Cobb threatens the guy with a Secret Service investigation. I've seen no indication that there was any kind of a threat or unlawful conduct. That's phenomenally not acceptable behavior for a government official.
posted by zachlipton at 3:06 PM on September 6 [42 favorites]


A small thing from Massachusetts today: V . A. Shiva Ayyadurai, who wants to run against Elizabeth Warren as "the real Indian" next year, had his libel suit against Techdirt thrown out today.

Oh good. That guy is a scumbag. And he was present for the infamous Gazebo of Nazis gathering on the Boston Common a few weeks ago, supposedly proving the rest of the Nazis up there "weren't racist." His "Real Indian" thing is so offensive it squeaks when you even fucking write it down.
posted by spitbull at 3:06 PM on September 6 [15 favorites]


You almost have to admire the Republicans ability to get middle class and poor people to care about ending estate taxes. It's an impressive display of the power of propaganda and misinformation.

They get propaganda help from Pelosi every few years, what with her moving the goal lines.
posted by rc3spencer at 3:07 PM on September 6


One important thing about the Ty Cobb emails

Whoa, the mayor from Powerpuff Girls is a real dick
posted by theodolite at 3:13 PM on September 6 [7 favorites]


You were right Justinian. McCain is making it pretty clear, at least right now, that he wants regular order more than he wants Graham-Cassidy.
posted by zachlipton at 3:15 PM on September 6 [3 favorites]


"How are you sleeping at night? You’re a monster," Jetton wrote to Cobb's White House email account on Tuesday night.

"Like a baby ... " wrote Cobb, who was brought in to the White House to oversee Trump's legal and media response to the ongoing Russia investigation.

The conversation escalated quickly, with Jetton attacking "the havoc" Cobb and his "ilk are causing."

"I, like many others, lay awake, restless, my mind dissecting countless scenarios of how bad this could get, what new thing you have dreamt up to pull us down a pathway to hell," Jetton wrote. "You remind me less of a grumpy baseball player and more of that horrid clown from the Stephen King novel."

Cobb replied: "Enjoy talking to the Secret Service. Hope you are you less than nine years old as you seem to be ... "

He later called Jetton "deranged impotent and unimportant," but continued to respond.

"I'm probably going to lose access to affordable healthcare, Ty," Jetton wrote, adding that Trump is "screwing everyday Americans" and that "I don't have to tell you that, it's right there slapping you across the face."

Cobb replied: "Dude U have no idea! I walked away from $4 million annually to do this, had to sell my entire retirement account for major capital losses and lost a s---load to try to protect the third pillar of democracy. Your hate I will never understand as an American. Hope you get help!"


This is purportedly a high-priced, high-powered, well regarded DC lawyer, yet he responds to random emails like a crazy crank. Dude U have no idea!? Lol whut?

Also, Natasha Bertrand is kind of killing it these days.
posted by spitbull at 3:20 PM on September 6 [17 favorites]


Doesn't sleeping like a baby suggest he wakes up at three in the morning and screams until dawn?
posted by dng at 3:22 PM on September 6 [49 favorites]


Or as Ben Mathis-Lilley puts it in Slate:
Ty Cobb is a White House attorney. He was hired in July and has been of interest to the public thus far mostly because he has a distinctive mustache and is named Ty Cobb, like the baseball player, to whom he is apparently distantly related. Now, however, he's also notable for writing a comically disjointed but heartfelt late-night email about Russia to the owner of a noodle restaurant who had been harassing him via unsolicited messages about fellatio.
posted by spitbull at 3:23 PM on September 6 [15 favorites]


Best-dressed list honors Obamas, snubs Trumps

I don't care about best-dressed lists but I am excited to see what Trump and Pete Souza do in response.

Whoa, the mayor from Powerpuff Girls is a real dick


That was totally worth googling.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:25 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


Thanks for the explanations about the "Daddy" interaction, everyone.
posted by Coventry at 3:31 PM on September 6


Poll: When is it appropriate to call an adult man "Daddy?"
()during a sex thing
() -


Guys my wife is a 44 year old woman and calls her father Daddy. It's not all that unusual. Everything sounds creepy when Trump says it, because he's a creep.
posted by Fleebnork at 3:33 PM on September 6 [32 favorites]


Calling your father "Daddy" = OK

Talking about how you like it when your adult daughter calls you "Daddy" = problematic
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:35 PM on September 6 [79 favorites]


Talking about intimate family names live, on television, during a press conference concerning federal taxes, between the president of the united States and one of his closest advis- I'm ded.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:44 PM on September 6 [16 favorites]


Calling your father "Daddy" when you are a grown woman is a thing in some regions and classes of America. It is very prevalent here in the South.

The problem I have with Ivanka (and women of her ilk) is she was raised to get what she wanted by being "Daddy's little girl" which meant being flirtatious and speaking in a kittenish way. Daddy can't be mad at his 5 year old, can he? Nor can he expect his 5 year old to act responsibly or do anything too hard. Plus 5 year olds love their Daddys best of all and think their Daddys are the best Daddy in the world. Cute but more than a bit off putting when the 5 year old is actually 35 and married. You wonder what Jared thinks of her act.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:44 PM on September 6 [26 favorites]


Talking about how you like it when your adult daughter calls you "Daddy," when you've previously stated you would be dating her if she wasn't your daughter and you've discussed her physical attributes with Howard Stern, among other moments in a 20-year-long history of making such public statements about her = vomit

Also, these DACA protesters at the Trump Hotel in DC have guts in spades.
posted by zachlipton at 3:44 PM on September 6 [51 favorites]


"She said 'Dad, can I go with'... she actually said 'Daddy, can I go with you?' I like that, right?" [emphasis his, not mine]

The way he says 'Daddy' with that emphasis... it's infantilizing a semi-adult conversation and turning Ivanka into Princess Morbucks (for Even More Powerpuff Girl References).
posted by hanov3r at 3:46 PM on September 6 [16 favorites]


Local NYC leftist election news : seriously vote Marc Fliender for DA
posted by The Whelk at 3:46 PM on September 6 [4 favorites]


Should have previewed. +++ to what Secret Live of Gravy said.
posted by hanov3r at 3:47 PM on September 6


Politico Trump’s favorite dodge: 'We’ll see.
Again and again on Wednesday — 11 times in total, before 1 p.m. — President Donald Trump deployed some form of his favorite dodge: “We’ll see.”

“We’ll see what happens. We’ll know in a very short period of time. But it looks like it could be something that will be not good. Believe me, not good,” he said, when asked by reporters about Hurricane Irma at an Oval Office meeting with congressional leaders Tuesday morning.[...]Whether he’s facing an uncomfortable question, trying to keep some mystery around his future plans, or simply filling up verbal space, Trump has frequently thrown out the phrase “we’ll see” when facing a barrage of questions from reporters.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:59 PM on September 6 [3 favorites]


Axios Trump's day as a Democratic president
President Trump played Democratic Party president today. He gave Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer everything they hoped for and sent Republican leaders spiraling into anger and disbelief.

In just the past 24 hours:
He handed Pelosi and Schumer the deal of the century
He nodded to bigger government, by agreeing to raise the debt limit, spend billions on disaster relief, and get zero spending cuts in exchange.
He held out the possibility of giving Democrats a much bigger prize in future negotiations about DACA
North Dakota's Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp joined Trump on AF1, traveling to her home state for his tax reform speech.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:09 PM on September 6 [19 favorites]


About that last point,

TPM Trump Praises Democratic Senator Facing Tough 2018 Reelection
After months of President Trump finally had something nice to say about a senator facing a tough reelection. To Republicans’ chagrin, it was to praise one of their top 2018 targets.

After giving Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND) the VIP treatment on Air Force One, Trump hauled her onstage in her home state alongside a number of Republicans to praise her for her openness to supporting his tax cut plan.

“Senator Heitkamp, senator, come on up,” Trump said. “Everyone’s saying, ‘what’s she doing up here?’ But I’ll tell you what, good woman, and I think we’ll have your support, I hope we’ll have your support. Thank you very much, senator.”

Trump then shook her hand — a moment that may be likely to appear in campaign ads next year for Heitkamp in a state that Trump won by 36 percentage points
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on September 6 [15 favorites]


As much as I enjoy seeing the Republicans flip out about Trump dealing with the Democrats, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that the Democrats remember they're the frog and he's the scrorpion.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:14 PM on September 6 [83 favorites]


they're the frog and he's the scrorpion

Surely they're the woman and he's the snake.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:17 PM on September 6 [7 favorites]


After giving Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND) the VIP treatment on Air Force One, Trump hauled her onstage in her home state alongside a number of Republicans to praise her for her openness to supporting his tax cut plan.

“Senator Heitkamp, senator, come on up,” Trump said. “Everyone’s saying, ‘what’s she doing up here?’ But I’ll tell you what, good woman, and I think we’ll have your support, I hope we’ll have your support. Thank you very much, senator.”


So, basically, the Democrats can easily damage the Republicans simply by shaking Trump's hand, being cordial to his face, and continuing to oppose his agenda, because he'll decide that means they "support" him and he'll promote them to his supporters instead of their Republican rivals. And, meanwhile, Republicans can vote for the Trump agenda 99% of the time, but the minute they openly disagree with him or fail to adequately kiss the ring, he'll actively campaign against them.

I hope the Dems are taking notes.
posted by The World Famous at 4:20 PM on September 6 [66 favorites]


They should invite him to give tax reform rallies in Indiana and Nevada next, we already know he hates Heller.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:24 PM on September 6 [4 favorites]


I have been considering whether protestors in red hats saying "Make America Grow Aware" and waving signs that say #MAGA could get his approval and support.

Because he's been pretty clear that what he cares about in politics is self-glorification - he wants people around him to tell him how awesome he is; he doesn't actually care about almost anything the government does. And he really, really wants to be A Great Winner - so he's happy to agree to any deal that can actually get passed.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:32 PM on September 6 [3 favorites]


evening lulz from Politico: GOP livid after Trump cuts deal with Democrats
“Iuckingt’s just a betrayal of everything we’ve been talking about for years as Republicans,” said former Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), who headed the Heritage Foundation and is still an influential conservative leader. “What the president’s going to find is … if they bet on Democratic votes they better plan on [giving up] a lot more than they think they’re going to.”

Republican Study Committee Chairman Mark Walker (R-N.C.) said he was “taken aback” by the deal and seemed blindsided by the president’s decision.

"It’s unsettling,” Walker said. “It’s hard for the conference; I can only imagine what it is for leadership.”
LOLOLOfuckingL. live by the sword, die by the sword motherfuckers
posted by lalex at 4:39 PM on September 6 [69 favorites]


I would like to take this moment to note that the dude down the street, who has had a Trump sign about a hundred feet from his home at the edge of the tree line in our rural town, finally took the sign down this week.

Was it DACA? Was it that his neighbor who was selling his/her home and who finally said 'Look, do us a favor. Nobody wants to buy a house from us while you have that sign in the yard.'

Was it finally that the long-simmering argument between him (inevitably) and his wife (inevitably) that resulted in the sign being placed next to the woods a hundred feet from his house was finally resolved?

Did someone steal it?

This would all be great fun for fiction writers, in a fictional universe.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:41 PM on September 6 [13 favorites]


GOP livid after Trump cuts deal with Democrats

This is so awesome. The entire Congressional Republican delegation are now dignity wraiths.
posted by Justinian at 4:42 PM on September 6 [61 favorites]


Countdown to "I was never really a Republican; I just needed the votes. But the Dems know how to get things done, so..."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:46 PM on September 6 [7 favorites]


God I don't like the thought of the Dems getting cozy with Trump but if they can be strategic about it I might just OD on schadenfreude watching Paul Ryan and co just go insane trying to navigate this new territory.

Trump is probably so fucking bored with the rules and work of a legislative agenda that the Dems could milk it for some actual good bills that could bring non-Freedom Caucus Republicans along as long as the bills make Trump feel good, and Ryan will just stand there and go "but-but-but Hastert Rule" and still let votes through.

Schumer has Trump's number. That take from upthread about the Noo Yawk dealmakers stance to play him is probably true. And the shriveled little "respect for others" ganglion in Trump's brain barely works but I can bet it flags shows of strength and dismisses bootlickers to be kicked on down to the manipulation lobe of the brain. Powerful thin skinned guys love that "you bust my balls but at least you're honest" thing when they can't intimidate someone, and I'm sure Schumer knows that.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:54 PM on September 6 [27 favorites]


OK. I've predicted it before, and I stand by it.

In a house with a Republican Majority, once Ryan is ousted as the ineffectual Randroid dweeb he is...

...say it with me, kids...

...Speaker of the House Pelosi.

If Trump swings from the doctrinaire far right to the wheeling and dealing center right, especially if the Dems give him easy victories in common-ground issues he can laud long and loud and demand everyone pat him on the back for... maybe CNN will have him back? They seem more... professional... than Fox.

Speaker of the House Pelosi. Fuck your Hastert Rule.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:55 PM on September 6 [12 favorites]


I want what you’re smoking
posted by phearlez at 4:55 PM on September 6 [32 favorites]


Donald Trump has screwed over virtually everyone with whom he has ever done business. No can ever forget that fact--it's one of the few consistent threads throughout his life. Schumer and Pelosi must remember that if you try to use him to accomplish your agenda, he will fuck it up if it gets in the way of his own.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:03 PM on September 6 [39 favorites]


The idea that Democrats should pander to trump, both in terms of what that would mean practically, and the idea that it would actually work, are like something from a person who's come into 2017 from an alternate dimension. I think that they might be a hit over on Verrit, though.
posted by codacorolla at 5:03 PM on September 6 [9 favorites]


Captain Black "White", the Blend #1 in pouch, not tin - it's a smooth and cool burning smoke easily as complex and flavorful as the pricey Brit-blends. I pack a pipe on holidays and special occasions, and it gets me right in the headspace I like, without demanding more the next morning. One pouch lasts two years if I keep it in the freezer.

Also, look for a lot more Dems dealing with the master of the "Art of the Deal" when it won't compromise core Dem values, as his own congress loses their collective shit. Glorious.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:04 PM on September 6 [4 favorites]


Hey y'all in addition to ringing your senators and reps, there are a lot of other people who have a stake in the DACA issue you can start contacting. One of my tactics over the last 8 months has been to try and get public figures to get on the record when Trump does something particularly heinous (ie the muslim ban) and get them to make a public statement on the issue outlining their position and any actions they'll take, if any. When I say public figures in this case I mean (where applicable):

Schools, both k-12 and University
Hospitals and health providers
Law enforcement, including local cops, sheriffs, etc
Local press, including journalists
Mayors, city councilors, school superintendents, and other relevant local government
Local businesses

The steps are as follows:
1) See if a public statement has been made.
1a) If a (good) public statement has been made thank whoever for their leadership on this issue.
1b) If an ambivalent/crappy statement has been made ask them to strengthen their statement on specific points and question why this hasn't been done already.
1c) If the statement is hard to find ask that it be made more prominent on their webpage, social media presence or whatever.
2) If a statement hasn't been made begin badgering them to make a statement.
2a) Ask why a statement hasn't already been made.
2b) Ask when you can expect a statement.
2c) Ask them to follow the leadership displayed by others who have already made statements.
3) Once a statement has been made, and it's good, and it's prominent, and you've thanked whoever, keep an eye on what happens. Hold them to their statement.
3a) If they deviate ask them why they are not doing what they said they'd do.
3b) Inform them that you're unhappy and give them a chance to respond or fix the issue.
3c) If they don't respond to the issue or fix it inform them that you'll be escalating this issue to their boss and the local press.

THIS IS INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE. Small time local peeps are not used to almost any level of scrutiny at all, and it's really unnerving for them to be held accountable to the public. Of course the effects are amplified if you get other local friends and family to do the same.

Getting public statements made has the dual effect of holding people accountable and amplifying your own voice. If everyone in town is saying "By the way this sucks" in the paper and on their webpage, that normalises your position and makes it harder for right-wingers and other Trumpistas to push back. The right-wing is so used to being the only voice in the room on local issues they're quite often taken aback when they find out they're not the majority, just the people with the biggest mouths.

So for DACA stuff specifically think about how many young kids are likely to be immigrants/dreamers in your own local school district and how scared they must be. It's imperative that your local school district make a public statement on their position on these students and what they'll do to protect them. Is your local law enforcement going to comply with ICE? Has your local mayor/city council/whatever taken a public position? Has your local hospital said whether they make immigration status available to outside entities such as ICE? Do your local businesses employ immigrants and if so have they made a public statement on these valuable employees? etc.

By the way for the shy and socially anxious among you this can often be done entirely by email.
posted by supercrayon at 5:04 PM on September 6 [131 favorites]


The goal needs to be to crush Trump, discredit him and his kind forever, and deal the Republicans a fatal blow. Their party is dangerous and evil. The idea that bamboozling Trump would have any lasting positive effect is bizarre to me, everything we've seen so far would lead me to believe that no matter what temporary gains might be achieved, it would be a disaster for our country to give him any sort of positive momentum of any kind.
posted by cell divide at 5:07 PM on September 6 [12 favorites]


I still don't understand how this "deal" went down. What does Trump have to offer the Dems? What does he need from them? He can't make McConnell or Ryan do anything... I'm having a hard time imagining how this exchange works out.
  1. Democrats want DACA turned into law, and a shitton of emergency funding for hurricanes.
  2. We are about to hit the debt limit, which the Tea Partiers don't want extended. Rest of the GOP is fine with raising the limit.
  3. So Schumer tells Trump that the Dems will vote to raise the limit (which they were already gonna do), if ... what? Trump pressures Ryan to bring a clean DACA bill to the floor?
I don't understand the political calculus here. Someone explain it in a way that doesn't require Chuck Schumer to trust Donald Trump.
posted by butterstick at 5:07 PM on September 6 [7 favorites]


President Trump played Democratic Party president today.

I see what you're doing, 2017 writers. You're about as subtle as a 40-foot-high wall. You're trying to set up an ending where, just before Election Day, Trump says "In my heart I have always been a Democrat!" and then he turns the 3-way split in the Democratic primary into a 4-way split while giving the Republicans a perfect opportunity to distance themselves from Trump and then Ted Cruz or some equally bad human-shaped cloud of pestilence wins the 2020 election.

I WON'T HAVE IT! Write a different ending. Please!
posted by mmoncur at 5:10 PM on September 6 [14 favorites]


Donald Trump has screwed over virtually everyone with whom he has ever done business. No can ever forget that fact--it's one of the few consistent threads throughout his life. Schumer and Pelosi must remember that if you try to use him to accomplish your agenda, he will fuck it up if it gets in the way of his own.

It doesn't have to pass, just getting him to pull this working with the Dems move more is effective to deepen the cracks in the Republican caucus, even if it fails. Hell, Trump having a little fling with the Dems to make Ryan and McConnell jealous is probably the most straightforward route to impeachment there is, whether bills pass out of it or not.

I still don't understand how this "deal" went down. What does Trump have to offer the Dems? He can't make McConnell or Ryan do anything... I'm having a hard time imagining how this exchange works out.

Remember, Donald Trump doesn't know how any of this works. He seemed honestly taken aback that the Democrats didn't help him repeal Obamacare, he's oblivious.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:13 PM on September 6 [34 favorites]


I see what you're doing, 2017 writers. You're about as subtle as a 40-foot-high wall.

Not even trying anymore.

@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at1.shtml [map projection]
posted by chris24 at 5:15 PM on September 6 [82 favorites]


Like just before this deal his plan was literally "I'm rescinding DACA so that Congress passes DACA into law and if they don't I might do it by executive order or not lol idk"

He is not a very smart person.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:17 PM on September 6 [13 favorites]


I still don't understand how this "deal" went down. What does Trump have to offer the Dems? He can't make McConnell or Ryan do anything... I'm having a hard time imagining how this exchange works out.

It doesn't matter what he tells the Dems he's offering them. What he actually offers them is an opportunity to alienate him further from his own party in exchange for them giving up nothing.
posted by The World Famous at 5:18 PM on September 6 [56 favorites]


@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at1.shtml [map projection]


Okay c'mon now. I'm not religious but god is clearly sending blatant messages at this point. I imagine god angrily wondering why his clear omens are being ignored. "I blot out the sun, I send wind and rain, I sent all those fires and turned the sky red. This used to work! Is anyone listening to me?!" Pretty sure god supports DACA.
posted by supercrayon at 5:20 PM on September 6 [64 favorites]


Right. This "deal" was the Democrats giving up literally nothing in order to kick the can down the road only 3 months... and then they will try to do it again then! It couldn't have gone any better. I imagine it something like this...
SCHUMER TO MCCONNELL: Senator? You can have my answer now, if you like. My offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally.
TRUMP: DONE! MAGA!!!!!11!!1!1eleven
posted by Justinian at 5:21 PM on September 6 [36 favorites]


I see what you're doing, 2017 writers. You're about as subtle as a 40-foot-high wall.

Not even trying anymore.

@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at1.shtml [map projection]


It's God's shitty NaNoWriMo project.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:23 PM on September 6 [52 favorites]


And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either."

A concerted effort to run independent anti-Trump conservative candidates in every single local and state election?
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:24 PM on September 6 [16 favorites]


I don't understand the political calculus here. Someone explain it in a way that doesn't require Chuck Schumer to trust Donald Trump.

That's the part that's bothered me -- Pelosi/Schumer still need GOP leadership and GOP votes (at least some) to bring these bills up for vote. So leadership and whatever votes they can count on are on board, too, however much they complain.

Kevin Drum suggests that McConnell/Ryan are okay with the three month punt as it gives them a chance to deal with all the other crap on their September calendar and isolates the Freedom Caucus, whom everybody hates, at least for the time being, while appeasing the business wing of the party, who really don't want a debt crisis or a shuttered Federal govt. When December arrives, the board will have changed, and more deals will have to be struck.
posted by notyou at 5:24 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


The idea that bamboozling Trump would have any lasting positive effect is bizarre to me, everything we've seen so far would lead me to believe that no matter what temporary gains might be achieved, it would be a disaster for our country to give him any sort of positive momentum of any kind.

Maybe if he starts working with the Dems, the Republicans will finally get on board with impeachment!
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:28 PM on September 6 [13 favorites]


Yea this is at best a qualified "win". Democrats gave up nothing, but they won basically nothing but time, and if Republicans are able to use that time to regroup behind one last Obamacare repeal effort like Trump apparently still wants, well, that wasn't a win after all. Trump doesn't actually speak for Congressional Republicans, they could tell him to go fuck his deal and put forth some other terrible funding bill tomorrow and dare him to veto it, knowing he'll in all likelihood cave. And they're still going to want all their devastating spending cuts in December, that fight isn't going away, it's going to be had at some point before the midterm.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:31 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


Definitely the most confusing part of today's news is how everyone seems to be treating this "deal" as a done deal despite Paul Ryan being a) openly opposed to it, b) at risk of being Boehner'd if he supports it, and c) likely able to stop it. Given Trump's limited influence over Congress, having Trump agree to it is practically irrelevant unless the alternative scenario was "the House and Senate will pass it but Trump will veto it".
posted by allegedly at 5:37 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


And so I'd really like to solve "where is a good place for more conservative anti-Trump organizers" because I would like to put those people, those connections and networks, to better use than "man, I'm not giving a dime to the State party, how about you? Nah, me either."

You have the perfect opportunity to do that on November 7 in Washington state. A special election for State Senate District 45 has the potential of flipping the State Senate from Republican to Democratic. You could put your efforts into getting Democrat Manka Dhingra elected.
posted by JackFlash at 5:46 PM on September 6 [8 favorites]


"How are you sleeping at night? You’re a monster," Jetton wrote to Cobb's White House email account on Tuesday night.

"Like a baby ... " wrote Cobb, who was brought in to the White House to oversee Trump's legal and media response to the ongoing Russia investigation.


My actual train of thought after reading this passage: "Wait, no way the President's personal lawyer has a White House email account. Trump's personal attorney, who is helping the President cope with the personal criminal-and-civil repercussions of the investigation into him and his campaign -- which are, like, not occasioned by Trump's office and aren't any sort of government work duties -- seriously has a whitehouse-dot-gov email address? How can that possibly be? [googling] WAIT, YOU'RE TELLING ME TRUMP'S MOTHERLOVING CRIMINAL LAWYER IS ON THE GOD DAMN WHITE HOUSE PAYROLL? So I'm paying Ty Cobb? OH MY GOD THESE FUCKING FLAGRANTLY TERRIBLE PEOPLE, aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgh."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:48 PM on September 6 [60 favorites]


So pretty much a normal 2017 evening for me, is what I'm saying.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:50 PM on September 6 [45 favorites]


Jesus Christ, I'm pretty sure some of you think the Democratic leadership can't eat crackers right, either.

Some of them might have antiquated politics, but they're not dumb. These are the people that got us the ACA the first time around. I'm gonna trust that they didn't get rolled in the room by Donald Dipshit.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:52 PM on September 6 [59 favorites]


That's the part that's bothered me -- Pelosi/Schumer still need GOP leadership and GOP votes (at least some) to bring these bills up for vote. So leadership and whatever votes they can count on are on board, too, however much they complain.

Pelosi and Schumer gave up something, we just don't know what it was. Whatever it is, it's big enough for Trump to agree and Ryan and McConnell to promise to take the abuse and keep their pie-holes shut about it.
posted by ctmf at 5:55 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


Kevin Drum suggests that McConnell/Ryan are okay with the three month punt

McConnell has said he'll introduce the amendments.
After the gathering, McConnell said he would add provisions extending government funding and the debt limit through mid-December to legislation passed by the House on Wednesday providing $7.85 billion in Hurricane Harvey relief.

“The president agreed with Senator Schumer and Congresswoman Pelosi to do a three-month [funding extension] and a debt ceiling into December, and that’s what I will be offering, based on the president’s decision, to the bill,” McConnell told reporters. “The president can speak for himself, but his feeling was that we needed to come together to not create a picture of divisiveness at a time of genuine national crisis.”
posted by chris24 at 5:55 PM on September 6 [3 favorites]


You know it kills Ryan and McConnell to let the Dems look good. Something's got them gloating and snickering in private thinking they got the better end of the deal.
posted by ctmf at 5:56 PM on September 6 [4 favorites]


Mmm I don't know. If I were Ryan or McConnell, I'd have been in "aw, fuck it" mode for some time now. It seems like McConnell is already partway there, getting into shouting matches (!!) over the phone with DJT.

Maybe they're cool with just chillaxing today. They've had a tough year. They need a break! Treat themselves!
posted by witchen at 6:00 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


If I were a Republican and Trump had just settled the debt thing - or at least kicked it down the road - I would secretly be mad with relief. My bet is that the Republicans do not want to own the giant disaster of shutting down the government. Having Trump cut a deal and take the blame is perfect. Remember that the Republicans simultaneously want to screw all ordinary people and not get blamed for screwing all ordinary people - they're torn between the desire to take all our money and ruin our lives and the fear of being blamed for it.
posted by Frowner at 6:02 PM on September 6 [22 favorites]


All the same, if I were Mueller, I'd avoid exposing my back to either side of the aisle now. Agreeing to not interfere when the special investigator "goes away" would be huge enough to get this reaction.
posted by ctmf at 6:05 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


“The president agreed with Senator Schumer and Congresswoman Pelosi to do a three-month [funding extension] and a debt ceiling into December, and that’s what I will be offering, based on the president’s decision, to the bill,” McConnell told reporters.

See, this is why I don't really factor in the fact that the GOP congressional leadership isn't technically beholden to Trump, they always roll over for him even if they hate every second. They're desperate to keep their caucus together and afraid of Trump's sway with the base. And they'll roll over even when his demands come from some senseless tantrum that actively hurts their agenda, there doesn't need to be some quid pro quo with the Democrats for Trump to make a "deal" and McConnell and Ryan won't demand one once Trump tells them they're doing this.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:09 PM on September 6 [6 favorites]


SCHUMER TO MCCONNELL: Senator? You can have my answer now, if you like. My offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally.
TRUMP: DONE! MAGA!!!!!11!!1!1eleven


omg Trump is Leroy Jenkins
posted by The World Famous at 6:10 PM on September 6 [24 favorites]


All the same, if I were Mueller, I'd avoid exposing my back to either side of the aisle now. Agreeing to not interfere when the special investigator "goes away" would be huge enough to get this reaction.

This is insane.

Trump is upset with McRyan because of all their previous failures, because they have displeased him, because he's unhappy and it's their job to make him happy. So he wanted to hurt them. Taking the Democrat's side hurts them, in his eyes.

Meanwhile the Dems are more than happy to hasten the GOP civil war by cleaving the establishment/business wing from its Trump base. They can't get the evil shit done if they're fighting each other. That's how we've gotten this far without ACA repeal.

This isn't eleven dimensional chess. It's not even checkers. It's when that dumb bully invents a game called "hitting someone else."
posted by schadenfrau at 6:11 PM on September 6 [92 favorites]


omg Trump is Leroy Jenkins

Minus the team focus and ability to plan long term.
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:18 PM on September 6 [25 favorites]


This is insane.

Completely agree. If you're so dejected you think the Dems agreed to let the Mueller investigation be killed in exchange for a THREE MONTH extension of the debt ceiling and government funding you probably need to take a walk and smell the flowers or something. Might as well believe they agreed to deport everyone who can't trace both sides of their family back to the Mayflower and/or are billionaires.
posted by Justinian at 6:19 PM on September 6 [34 favorites]


If the Democrats gave concessions it wouldn't be "me and Chuck made a deal" it would be "weak Schumer came crawling to me and I threw him a bone" because that's how Donald Trump treats people under his thumb. It's him spiting Ryan and McConnell. All those stories lately about how McConnell and Donald have been fighting, how McConnell gives him the silent treatment to keep him on track in conversation? All the complaints from GOP leadership about Trump throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the short window they have this fall for their agenda? Of course he'll lash out.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:20 PM on September 6 [10 favorites]


I can't follow this drama. Someone give an ELI5 on it.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:23 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


omg Trump is Leroy Jenkins
posted by The World Famous at 6:10 PM on September 6 [+] [!]


My Google Fu came up with LeeRoy Jenkins. Is that the reference/meme?
posted by Mental Wimp at 6:24 PM on September 6 [11 favorites]


>>omg Trump is Leroy Jenkins
>Minus the team focus and ability to plan long term.


at least he has chicken
posted by entropicamericana at 6:24 PM on September 6 [8 favorites]


Could we not with the Mar-a-Lago schadenfreude? Trump's not here, he won't get hurt, insurance will pay for whatever of his gets wrecked. Unlike the rest of us who live here.
posted by Daily Alice at 6:26 PM on September 6 [35 favorites]




Mental Wimp, yes that's it.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:42 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


This discussion does illustrate the situation Pelosi and Schumer are in though, where people are so super-sensitive to the idea that Democratic leadership might not be capital-R Resisting Trump at every possible turn that their every action will be viewed through the worst lens possible.

Schumer is reportedly meeting with Trump again tomorrow to talk about the Gateway Program (new rail tunnels under the Hudson and expand Penn Station, among other transit programs, though I still dream of a day when the 7 train goes to Penn Station). That's a good thing, I think, and it can't happen if everyone is going to jump down Schumer's throat for not Resisting enough.

On the other hand, Schumer and Pelosi have been the voice of not giving Trump an inch since inauguration day, and they just got everything they wanted, so it's unclear why they'd actually have to give Trump anything at all.

Definitely the most confusing part of today's news is how everyone seems to be treating this "deal" as a done deal despite Paul Ryan being a) openly opposed to it, b) at risk of being Boehner'd if he supports it, and c) likely able to stop it.

The House passed the Harvey bill today. McConnell says he'll attach the amendments and put it to a vote in the Senate. Then it goes back and will have to pass the House? What is Ryan going to do about it at that point? The Freedom Caucus won't support it, no, but is Ryan going to be the one to personally go against the Senate and the President to stop the Harvey bill, cause the government to default, and shut down the government? And if you think he is for some reason, what deal do you think Ryan wants instead? Ryan wants the Harvey funding, to avoid default, and to avoid a shutdown. I don't see how he blows up the deal, or where he goes from there if he does? And in the event the deal somehow all blows up, Pelosi and Schumer lost absolutely nothing out of it.
posted by zachlipton at 6:50 PM on September 6 [43 favorites]


How Democrats Rolled Trump on the Debt Ceiling (Ryan Liza, The New Yorker)
After the deal was announced, Republicans inside and outside of government were shocked. Ryan was left looking ridiculous. “Trump’s made a career out of being a gut player,” a Republican close to McConnell told me. “The problem is, his gut is always wrong when it comes to advancing a legislative agenda.” Yet, aboard Air Force One, Trump seemed pleased with the deal. “We had a very good meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer,” Trump said. “We agreed to a three-month extension on debt ceiling, which they consider to be sacred.” When I called around to Democratic offices on Wednesday afternoon, several aides were careful not to gloat about what they had accomplished, lest Trump realize how much he had given away to “Chuck and Nancy,” as Trump called the Democratic leaders several times in his gaggle with reporters.

Later in the day, the White House began arguing that the deal was actually a win for Trump, because it kicked several difficult issues from September to December and allowed Trump to focus solely on tax reform this month. Perhaps. But McConnell and Ryan were plotting to take away a loaded weapon from Schumer and Pelosi, and Trump returned it to their hands.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:53 PM on September 6 [18 favorites]


Anyway, go watch Lou Dobbs (really, I said that, this is so weird) bashing the hell out of Paul Ryan in "the death of a RINO": "President Trump not only took RINO Ryan to the woodshed, but eliminated any need for any Republican to pretend that Ryan is a real Republican."

Josh Marshall's take is also interesting: Why Did Trump Shiv the GOP?, not least for this incredible bit of shade:
This late Times report confirms that even Trump’s Treasury Secretary, the husband of actress Laura Linton, was caught off guard.
But also for the point that Trump is operating bluntly here and that there's no need to read a whole lot into it:
Donald Trump’s core drive is dominance. We see that in his politics which is revanchist and destructive and in its less dire manifestations driven by a zero sum vision of human and economic relations. For me to win, you have to lose. The more fluid and collaborative aspects of human interaction seem entirely lost on Trump. This is why he is the leader of the revanchist, racist far right.

But the political or ideological manifestations are secondary to the personal one. Trump needs to dominate people. Clearly Trump felt that McConnell and Ryan are not serving him well enough or loyally enough or both. So he lashed out or tried to damage them. Schumer and Pelosi were simply the most convenient cudgels available.
If I had to guess, I'd bet that Schumer and Pelosi are promising Trump they'll fix his DACA problem for him too and take all the pressure off him on that, as he tries to backtrack.
posted by zachlipton at 6:57 PM on September 6 [23 favorites]


I can't follow this drama. Someone give an ELI5 on it.

I don't think any of the rest of us understand it any more than you do, but basically, the capsule version is that Trump has endorsed (which, notably, has almst no legislative weight, since he doesn't vote or control Congress's agenda) the Democratic-approved short-term plan for budgeting and debt ceiling increase, which is not a victory for any specific Democratic legislative goals but is a tactical victory for Democratic ability to influence the legislative process. AFAICT, the motivation it is one or more of the following things:
  1. Trump is desperate to not look legislatively hapless and figures bipartisanship is the only way to make any progress (this credits him with more vision and grace than I would).
  2. Trump is all pissy at McConnell and Ryan and is making overtures to Democratic leadership out of sheer spite.
  3. Schumer and Pelosi have made some sort of nonpublic concession to Trump (seems unlikely, unless there's a low-priority legislative goal they can throw to the wolves).
  4. Trump acts on pure impulse, and happened to do so at a time when Schumer and Pelosi were making polite noises, so he just decided to do what they wanted.
posted by jackbishop at 7:01 PM on September 6 [31 favorites]


My pet theory is that Schumer arranged to be the last person to talk to Trump, and Trump always goes with whatever the last person he talked to said.
posted by Justinian at 7:03 PM on September 6 [36 favorites]


Why is everyone assuming that Trump will follow through on this "deal"? Not that he won't, necessarily; it's just sort of random, like all the other semi-spontaneous bullshit that continually comes out of his mouth. Not only does he have zero integrity or decency or business sense, he is a person for whom words have no meaning in terms of representing actual facts or ideas or plans. They're just sounds emerging from gaping maw for the sole purpose of turning people's attention his way.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:04 PM on September 6 [13 favorites]


The only way Trump can not follow through is by vetoing the bill containing Harvey relief funds, avoiding default, and keeping the government open. I mean, it's Trump, so there is always a real possibility he does something that makes absolutely no sense, but why would he do that exactly?
posted by zachlipton at 7:07 PM on September 6 [13 favorites]


Anyway, go watch Lou Dobbs (really, I said that, this is so weird) bashing the hell out of Paul Ryan in "the death of a RINO"

And Mark Meadows is plotting with Steve Bannon for who to replace Ryan with
Several people close to Bannon and Meadows said on Wednesday that the two men, who met on Monday on Capitol Hill, have begun to discuss who could replace Ryan as speaker, should conservatives rebel against him.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on September 6 [9 favorites]


Holy moly. What has happened over the past 24 hours. Trump has sold out his base and the comments section at Breitbart are quite a site to see right now. They are eating their own. Since the "revisit" tweet last night and his deal today, a lot of Trump supporters are feeling sold out. Then I realized. Why am I reading Breitbart. Going to dig in and read this thread now. It's been awhile since I've entered an election thread. (Am I dating myself there?)
posted by Roger Dodger at 7:11 PM on September 6 [18 favorites]


Tropical Depressions (Sam Kriss and Ellie Mae O’Hagan, The Baffler)
Political depression means staring into a vastness, but one without grandeur or the sublime, one that’s almost invisible. When we wake up with every morning, it’s just there, seeping into our bones. “I am amazed,” Paffard tells us, “by our inability to engage with things that are scary and bigger than us. It’s the minutiae that keep us going . . . it’s too big for us to hold in our minds.” What can we do? We’re only human.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:13 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


The only way Trump can not follow through is by vetoing the bill containing Harvey relief funds, avoiding default, and keeping the government open. I mean, it's Trump, so there is always a real possibility he does something that makes absolutely no sense, but why would he do that exactly?

Because he is aces at stepping on his own dick, for one, and also because of what Roger Dodger just said:
Trump has sold out his base and the comments section at Breitbart are quite a site to see right now. They are eating their own. Since the "revisit" tweet last night and his deal today, a lot of Trump supporters are feeling sold out.
Uh oh, how will daddy survive if the evil racist morons don't love him no more?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:17 PM on September 6 [1 favorite]


Don't forget, Junior goes to Washington tomorrow:

Donald Trump Jr. to Meet With Senate Russia Investigators (Nicholas Fandos, NYT)

Set your alarms for droppo.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:18 PM on September 6 [14 favorites]


Why aren't the usual "today is the day he truly became President" talking heads tripping over themselves to kiss his ass for a show of supposed* bipartisanship today? It's almost like if it's good for anyone to the left of your average Republican in any way, it doesn't count with the mainstream media. Crazy how that works.

*supposed because, of course, he doesn't know what he's doing
posted by jason_steakums at 7:20 PM on September 6 [9 favorites]


Trump has sold out his base and the comments section at Breitbart are quite a site to see right now. They are eating their own.

"Oh shut up, silly alt-right," said the reptile with a grin...
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:20 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]



@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at1.shtml [map projection]


Maybe the destruction and devastation will lead him to resign in order to rebuild. (And work his insurance-fraud game.)

Eh, probably not.
posted by jgirl at 7:20 PM on September 6


Not to find fault, though. If Trump sincerely wants to give Ryan and McConnell's careers the trajectory of a dropped bowling ball, piss off the slack-jawed maga-magas all day long, and volunteer to be Chuck-n-Nancy's doormat, far be it from me to stand in his way.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:30 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]




That just hurts my head. And I even read the linked article.
posted by anya32 at 7:42 PM on September 6 [2 favorites]


@nils_gilman
As of right now, Hurricane Irma is forecast to make landfall directly at Mar a Lago


We better hope not, or Trump will rob the taxpayers for even more money:

Remember When Trump Took Insurance $ for Hurricane Damage That Reportedly Didn’t Exist? (Alberto Luperon, LawNewz)
Trump declined to give the AP relevant records about the insurance claim, or to even comment on the Mar-a-Lago hurricane damage. Hank Stein, the insurance adjuster who assessed the claim, told the AP there was some water damage to an observation deck, a golf course, roof, and landscape, but said he couldn’t remember the details.

“I wish I could give you some more information on the breakdown,” he said.

The AP could not identify which insurer paid the $17 million, and Trump did not mention it in the deposition. LawNewz.com reached out to the Trump Organization for comment.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:49 PM on September 6 [11 favorites]


Speaking of Trump properties, the Daily Beast is reporting that Russians are flocking to his hotels and resorts to give birth to American citizens.

I just... this is the same week as the DACA debacle, right? Maybe I'm drunk and just forgot having had anything to drink.
posted by Superplin at 7:55 PM on September 6 [43 favorites]


ok THIS is the winning version of the "guy checking out girl" meme. The end!
posted by lalex at 8:01 PM on September 6 [37 favorites]


In light of the Facebook news, this amazing thread on the challenges of counterintelligence when operations are run through social networks from Asha Rangappa, former FBI Special Agent from the Counteringelligence division, is fascinating.

I turned it into paragraphs for easy reading the best I could, but I'm going to link to that rather than include it, since it became too long to stick in the thread, even for my tastes.

The short point is that the FBI had tools they could use if a foreign agent was targeting a journalist with propaganda. None of those tools work when foreign governments can just run their own Facebook campaigns. The FBI can sit around and watch foreign disinformation operations in realtime and can't do anything about it. And foreign intelligence agencies know this and know that our Constitution and freedoms give them enormous opportunties here, that the FBI, rightfully, doesn't just get to ban speech on social media.

The comparison to terorrism is frightening, because we've seen the excesses and abuses of the war on terror, but this is the first time I've seen someone actually raise the honest question of what we want to do about foreign information operations in this country rather than just treating that as obvious. And it turns out, there's a lot of questions and trade-offs involved.

Anyway, highly recommended reading.
posted by zachlipton at 8:06 PM on September 6 [36 favorites]


Calling your father "Daddy" = OK

Talking about how you like it when your adult daughter calls you "Daddy" = problematic


It would probably be less problematic if Trump had not multiple times alluded to having sex with his daughter
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:10 PM on September 6 [22 favorites]


Have we talked about/has anyone used Verrit at all? Peter Daou is ridiculous.
posted by lalex at 8:11 PM on September 6 [5 favorites]


Schools, both k-12 and University
Hospitals and health providers
Law enforcement, including local cops, sheriffs, etc
Local press, including journalists
Mayors, city councilors, school superintendents, and other relevant local government
Local businesses


Brilliant post, supercrayon, and may I please add that you should not leave out local libraries, museums, and arts organizations. Often, as staff we have little latitude to speak out, but if the community is clearly and publicly demanding a response to something, it is far more likely to happen. And cultural issues are very much what we are about. So don't let us off the hook.
posted by Miko at 8:27 PM on September 6 [9 favorites]


I just learned that Jeff Sessions is a fan of the racist Johnson-Reed immigration act of 1924. The Act applied quotas based on the national origin of migrants capped at 2% of the percentage of people from that country that had been living in the USA in 1890. It was explicitly intended to reduce the number of Jews and Southern Europeans entering the USA, and it banned Asian and African migration altogether.

Daniel J Solomon in The Forward: Jeff Sessions Ends DACA — He Also Praised Keeping Out Jews In The 1920s
[via David Schraub's blog]

Also worth reading: An Open Letter to Jeff Sessions by June Shih. Yes, the man who praised the law that barred Asians from the USA has American grandchildren of Asian descent.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:36 PM on September 6 [30 favorites]


Not only was it intended to reduce the numbers of Jews from entering the USA it was explicitly used to deny Jewish immigration during the holocaust and was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of fleeing Jews who were under this law, returned to Nazi Germany. May God spit in Session's eyes and make him blind.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:42 PM on September 6 [77 favorites]


The Blathering Superego At The End Of History
I am not qualified to make, nor do I want to make, any claims about the psychological character of any particular American liberal. And I am not at all convinced that Freudian psychoanalysis constitutes the most useful way to do so, in any case. But the superego as a metaphor for the collective operation of the liberal world order throws a great deal of much-needed light on what we are observing in the wake of the 2016 election. When history is meant to be over and a single political faction begins to conceive of itself as the permanent manager of a static world, then that faction ceases to be political in the ordinary sense. Politics, in its classic incarnation, is the art of deriving an is from an ought; the point, as Marx famously said, is not to describe the world but to change it. But if the world is as it ought to be already and the essential task is to maintain it — that is, to police the circumscribed boundaries of permissible behavior and ideas — then those tasked with that maintenance must conceive of themselves as acting above politics itself. They become a superego, beyond the libidinal whims of any faction and dedicated not to some alternative vision of the world but to resisting all impulse toward alternatives. Possibility goes in, correction comes out. The End of History suggests a perfectly healthy mind; thus, any attempt to alter this situation is dangerous. But the trouble with superegos is that, once they have taken on this role, they cannot cease to perform it. When the id can be kept in control, all is well. But when it can’t, then the result is not the superego’s surrender — it is repetitious, manic dysfunction. It becomes the blathering superego at the end of history.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:52 PM on September 6 [15 favorites]


zachlipton: "[T]his amazing thread on the challenges of counterintelligence when operations are run through social networks from Asha Rangappa, former FBI Special Agent from the Counteringelligence division, is fascinating."

Asha Rangappa: It is IMPERATIVE that EVERY AMERICAN make an effort to cross over in meaningful ways with people we disagree with. This is hard. Trust me, I am guilty of this. But this isolation by ideology is what allows disinformation Russians create to succeed. Uniting over SHARED VALUES (freedom, tolerance, inclusiveness, respect) is really what neutralizes Russian propaganda. Which means: if you see someone, anyone -- even from another party, expressing these values in any way -- SUPPORT THEM


This advice feels as effectual as advocating for shorter showers to combat droughts: certainly helps, although it should not be the primary focus of efforts. Unfortunately, the primary focus according to the former agent should be to cede the responsibility of combating disinformation campaigns to Facebook and Twitter themselves. This is unimpressive, even if the government is assisting them. I would rather not trust my country's safety to the whims of Mark Zuckerberg. I hope that we can find something better.
posted by TypographicalError at 8:52 PM on September 6 [3 favorites]


"It doesn't matter what he tells the Dems he's offering them. What he actually offers them is an opportunity to alienate him further from his own party in exchange for them giving up nothing."
That is not how you take Trump down. That is how you take Trump down & let the Republicans blame you for it!
posted by Pinback at 8:58 PM on September 6


You wonder what Jared thinks of her act.

fake, nobody has ever wondered what J/K thinks about anything
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:31 PM on September 6 [26 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 Senate -- GOP revising their high hopes for Senate gains down to keeping their current margin. [National Journal]

** 2018 House:
-- As mentioned earlier, Dave Reichert [WA-08] is retiring, making him the second GOP rep of an Obama/Obama/Clinton district to retire. This is obviously a prime Dem pickup opportunity. More retirements may be coming.

-- Dave Wasserman - who saw the 2010 GOP wave coming - thinks 2018 may be a Dem wave, primarily due to the new trend of highly educated folks voting Dem. [528]
** Odds & ends:
-- Chris Christie approval ratings continue to be at historic lows, boding ill for GOP chances to block the Dems from picking up a trifecta in November.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:37 PM on September 6 [35 favorites]


& let the Republicans blame you for it!

Hahahaha--the GOP will blame the Dems no matter what. Trying to avoid this is a fool's errand.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:50 PM on September 6 [26 favorites]


We all know that Ivanka will be one of the odds-on favorites for the Republican nominee for President some day, right? That -- and setting her up for some serious influence peddling/corruption opportunities -- is the end-game for all this nepotistic reputation polishing. Mark my words.
posted by darkstar at 9:52 PM on September 6 [3 favorites]


Have we talked about/has anyone used Verrit at all?

You can't use Verrit. There is literally no way to submit a Verrit if you aren't a trusted Verriter, which means it's really just a one-way platform for DNC/DLC types to pretend they're using social media to disseminate information, which they really aren't because why would you read Verrit?
posted by mightygodking at 9:55 PM on September 6 [11 favorites]


Dave Wasserman - who saw the 2010 GOP wave coming - thinks 2018 may be a Dem wave, primarily due to the new trend of highly educated folks voting Dem.

I don't know about that. However, something I have noticed. In the past, after the election, loser bumper stickers disappear and the winners stick around. I recall seeing W stickers all over the place.

I live in a red county - it went 68% for Trump. Before the election, the stickers were everywhere. I haven't seen a Trumpence sticker in days. Maybe it's confirmation bias, but I really do think there has been a substantial sense of buyers remorse even here in the rabidly red west.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:56 PM on September 6 [12 favorites]


Plenty of H stickers still up around here (and Bernie, lol).
posted by ryanrs at 10:06 PM on September 6 [8 favorites]


Along those lines, I've mentioned that one tiny bit of resistance I perform is turning over any mags or tabloids with a Trump in the cover while I'm in line at the market. I realized the other day that it's been a few weeks since I've seen one, even on the Enquirer, which is owned by a FoT.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:19 PM on September 6 [6 favorites]


You can't use Verrit...

After I posted that I went and poked around the site and I'm so embarrassed for everyone involved, except for Peter Daou obviously.
posted by lalex at 10:21 PM on September 6 [6 favorites]


Pelosi and Schumer gave up something, we just don't know what it was. Whatever it is, it's big enough for Trump to agree and Ryan and McConnell to promise to take the abuse and keep their pie-holes shut about it.

And when 45 inevitably reneges on some part of this, they have no reason to follow through on their end of the bargain.

I don't think they're dumb enough to expect 45 to uphold his end of the bargain. The only smart thing to do is to assume he will always try to cheat or double-cross and to make that part of the plan. Therefore, if he pulls out, they haven't really lost anything, but anything they gain -- including and especially just playing for time -- means they (and rational Americans everywhere) coming out ahead.

Yes, they can make mistakes and screw up and 2017 means everything can always be absolute shit, but so far Pelosi an Schumer seem pretty smart. Pelosi has taken this administration for a ride on its own budget once already. I think she's smart enough to do it again, and so far it looks like she just did.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:27 PM on September 6 [36 favorites]


I don't even with this Daily Beast story by Katie Zavadski, Russians Flock to Trump Properties to Give Birth to U.S. Citizens:
While Trump rails against U.S.-born children of undocumented immigrants, his Florida properties have become a playground for birth tourists from Russia’s upper crust. The Daily Beast has discovered several companies are advertising rentals in Trump properties to expectant Russian parents. While the Trump Organization does not directly profit from subleases of privately owned condos, it does benefit from Russian patronage of the nearby Trump International Beach Resort. (The Trump Organization did not return requests comment.)
There is, to be clear, nothing wrong with any of this, besides it all being just way too on the nose.
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 AM on September 7 [27 favorites]


We all know that Ivanka will be one of the odds-on favorites for the Republican nominee for President some day, right?

Actually, I don't know that and I think it's a cynical, defeatist assumption. I think the Trump stench is the last thing voters will want to dab behind their ears after this is over.
posted by thelonius at 12:47 AM on September 7 [12 favorites]


I think it's a cynical, defeatist assumption

Why defeatest? If Ivanka 4 GOP nom is defeat, what would victory look like? Some trad GOP shitbird? Any possible Repub candidate (including, of course, Ivanka) will be ghoulish. Comparing them is possible, I guess, but it's a little like comparing different flavors of diarrhea.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 1:05 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


Went to my first ADAPT meeting.

Firstly, these guys are fucking heroes, which I knew, but damn. At the meeting, a woman in a motorized chair told the tale of how, while marching with another group which a few weeks ago, she'd had a stroke. The other group (sorry, didn't catch the name, not referred to as antifa but something fascists) had to do something (disable the motors) to her chair and take her several blocks to the nearest ER. Why 9-1-1 wasn't on the scene, I don't know. But you get the picture.

There was a march with ADAPT and DACA folks to the detainee center, where chants supporting those detained could be heard by the detainees.

Secondly, there are a lot of smart people involved. People doing legislative work (lobbying, bill writing, etc) along with the demonstrations.

Thirdly, I learned that if you have a leather cowboy hat that's heavy enough, it's good for wheelchair users. You see, most hats are problematic for folks in wheelchairs because you can't clap a hand on your head to keep your hat on your head unless you want to remain stationary.

No, really guys, you don't understand; I love hats. I've been hatless for about fifteen years. This is huge.
posted by angrycat at 1:09 AM on September 7 [109 favorites]


We all know that Ivanka will be one of the odds-on favorites for the Republican nominee for President some day, right?

Ivanka's future involves exile. Once everything about this administration has run its course, the Trump name and brand will be worthless. Less than worthless. Ivanka won't be spared this fate. She'll live in some small & obscure nation. Holding court over a tiny number of sad & desperate loyalists: the last people in the world willing to trust the Trump family with money.
posted by Teegeeack AV Club Secretary at 1:41 AM on September 7 [14 favorites]


You see, most hats are problematic for folks in wheelchairs because you can't clap a hand on your head to keep your hat on your head unless you want to remain stationary.

I've worn a Tilley TH-4 for years. It has 'fore and aft' lanyards that do a great job of holding it on in the wind. e.x.: Sailing.
posted by mikelieman at 2:28 AM on September 7 [3 favorites]


> Ivanka's future involves exile.
A point of reference: Son of former Ukraine president Viktor Yanukovych 'drowned in lake' [Guardian, 2015-03-23]
Russian authorities said only that a man named Viktor Davydov had died when a Volkswagen van fell through the ice on Lake Baikal, the world’s deepest lake. Davydov is his maternal grandmother’s name.
posted by runcifex at 2:55 AM on September 7 [1 favorite]


Have we talked about/has anyone used Verrit at all?

What's to talk about? Something to do with Clinton happens and people lose their mind on Twitter. Film at eleven.
posted by haapsane at 2:58 AM on September 7 [6 favorites]


Have we talked about/has anyone used Verrit at all?

the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about
and as the thing not being talked about is peter daou, metafilter wins
posted by murphy slaw at 3:14 AM on September 7 [13 favorites]


From what I can see, there's nothing to say about Verritt that doesn't involve either (a.) relitigating the primaries, or (b.) speculating irresponsibly about what extravagant coke binge or mental health crisis has led Peter Daou to handle his twitter account the way he is. So maybe we should just pass on that and let this hot mess die a quiet death?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:38 AM on September 7 [7 favorites]


In the past, after the election, loser bumper stickers disappear and the winners stick around.

I've considered picking up a Dean For America or a McGovern/Eagleton sticker for my car a few times. If you're going to make a statement, go all in.
posted by delfin at 3:43 AM on September 7 [6 favorites]


If we have any American Horror Story fans in the house, the new season ("Cult") has begun and it's heavily centered around the post-election psychic fallout that we've been grappling with in these threads.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:48 AM on September 7 [1 favorite]


Ivanka's future involves exile. Once everything about this administration has run its course, the Trump name and brand will be worthless. Less than worthless. Ivanka won't be spared this fate. She'll live in some small & obscure nation. Holding court over a tiny number of sad & desperate loyalists: the last people in the world willing to trust the Trump family with money.

You do know that Bush Sr.'s and Bush Jr.'s staffs were chock full of Nixon's people and that there are even McCarthyites in the current admin right?

Justice ain't a thing at that level.
posted by srboisvert at 4:07 AM on September 7 [14 favorites]


I've considered picking up a Dean For America or a McGovern/Eagleton sticker for my car a few times.

Speaking of relitigation, I'm still sore about that whole Eagleton thing. I know that election was about as winnable as the Vietnam war, but FFS, when the "amnesty, abortion, and acid" candidate chose a guy with electroshock therapy and suicidal tendencies in his medical history as running mate, it was like letting Nixon run uncontested.
posted by pracowity at 4:18 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


Kevin Drum suggests that McConnell/Ryan are okay with the three month punt

I'd be okay with the punt too if I was looking at fourth down and about mile and had been sacked on every previous down by a team that didn't even have an equal compliment of players.

Are they hoping for high draft picks next year?
posted by srboisvert at 4:42 AM on September 7 [10 favorites]


There is, to be clear, nothing wrong with any of this, besides it all being just way too on the nose.

Eh, I actually think birth tourism is kind of shitty, it's just impossible to end without making things harder for actual immigrants.
posted by corb at 4:44 AM on September 7 [6 favorites]


Related to the big ffacebook/Russia story:

Trump-Russia investigators probe Jared Kushner-run digital operation (Peter Stone & Greg Gordon, McClatchy)
Schiff said he wants the House panel to determine whether Trump aides helped Russia time its cyberattacks or target certain voters and whether there was “any exchange of information, any financial support funneled to organizations that were doing this kind of work.”

Trump son-in-law Kushner, now a senior adviser to the president and the only current White House aide known to be deemed a “person of interest” in the Justice Department investigation, appears to be under the microscope in several respects. His real estate finances and December meetings with Russia’s ambassador and the head of a sanctioned, state-controlled bank are also being examined.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:23 AM on September 7 [14 favorites]


The last couple of lines in that birth tourism article:
“When Trump was elected, he said he wanted to eliminate citizenship based on place of birth,” birth tourist Tanya Yanygina told The Daily Beast. “But he said that in reference to people from the Middle East and Mexico.”
posted by xigxag at 5:23 AM on September 7 [34 favorites]


The always biting Jeff Tiedrich


(((Jeff Tiedrich)))
(((Jeff Tiedrich))) @jefftiedrich
if you think Joe Arpaio deserves a pardon while 800,000 youngsters are banished to lands they never knew, you just might be a shitty human
3:33 PM · Sep 5, 2017
311 Retweets
782 Likes

posted by Mental Wimp at 5:40 AM on September 7 [34 favorites]


In the past, after the election, loser bumper stickers disappear and the winners stick around. I recall seeing W stickers all over the place.

Oh, absolutely not. I drove around with my Kerry/Edwards sticker for at least two years after that election. And I was not alone. It's not a new phenomenon, though I am very appreciative of those who are sporting their 2016 "losers" stickers with special tenacity.
posted by Miko at 5:44 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]




pracowity: Speaking of relitigation, I'm still sore about that whole Eagleton thing. I know that election was about as winnable as the Vietnam war, but FFS, when the "amnesty, abortion, and acid" candidate chose a guy with electroshock therapy and suicidal tendencies in his medical history as running mate, it was like letting Nixon run uncontested.

For context, recall that at the time, conservative slimetoad Robert Novak attributed the "amnesty, abortion, and acid" description of McGovern to an unnamed Democratic senator. Thirty-five years later, the 'unnamed senator' was revealed to be the very same Thomas Eagleton himself, thus forever firmly establishing the importance of candidate vetting to high-level campaigns.

And then McCain chose Palin as running mate next year, so... never mind.
posted by hangashore at 5:53 AM on September 7


I am very appreciative of those who are sporting their 2016 "losers" stickers with special tenacity

I'd been avoiding wearing my Hillary stuff out in public because I'm in NYC and I figured it would just bum everybody out, but maybe it's time...
posted by schadenfrau at 5:53 AM on September 7 [3 favorites]


I kept my Hillary magnet up at work.
posted by Mavri at 5:58 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


Trump humiliating both Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell is like my birthday and Christmas all rolled together. I've never been so happy.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:58 AM on September 7


Will everyone take a few minutes to read this trenchant article about DJT from Ta-Nehisi Coates?

I don't have any other words, except "PREEEEACH!"
posted by droplet at 6:19 AM on September 7 [58 favorites]


Ivanka's future involves exile. Once everything about this administration has run its course, the Trump name and brand will be worthless. Less than worthless. Ivanka won't be spared this fate. She'll live in some small & obscure nation

Israel may be small but I'm not sure it's fair to call it obscure.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 6:26 AM on September 7


I have a neighbor who put up a hand-painted wooden sign with the Hillary H and the number of votes she won the popular vote by. It's a fairly long sign. I like my neighbors.
posted by nonasuch at 6:30 AM on September 7 [33 favorites]


Hawthorne's mistranslation link above is beyond wonderful. If you skipped over it, you have missed the opportunity to make your day.
posted by Devonian at 6:37 AM on September 7 [43 favorites]


Shortly after the election results were certified, I made some hats, hoodies, shirts and other swag that said nothing but 2,868,691 in a nice font. They sold well.
posted by carmicha at 6:46 AM on September 7 [15 favorites]


At various points in these threads, we've argued about rural issues and whether they are white issues. I was reading this article about the closure of obstetric wards in rural communities, which I think illustrates the overlap, and why it's important to be complex in our thinking about rural communities. The upshot is that rural areas in general are losing maternity care and seeing an uptick in maternal deaths (naturally, especially in states that refused the Medicaid expansion) and this is more pronounced in rural communities with a larger percentage of Black residents. So it's both a pan-rural issue (in that all rural communities suffer) and an issue that is worse for Black people in rural areas. I suspect that this is probably how most rural issues work - bad for all, worse for people of color generally and Black people in specific.
posted by Frowner at 6:46 AM on September 7 [38 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
For all of those (DACA) that are concerned about your status during the 6 month period, you have nothing to worry about - No action!

Don't worry, human beings! You won't become Unpersons for at least 6 months! What are you bitching about?

Absolute and complete absence of empathy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:47 AM on September 7 [61 favorites]


I am very appreciative of those who are sporting their 2016 "losers" stickers with special tenacity

My neighbor still has their Clinton/Kane lawn sign up. It was up all last winter, too ... they would go out and clean it off and replant it after every snowstorm.

It makes me smile every time I see it, honestly.
posted by anastasiav at 6:58 AM on September 7 [27 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
For all of those (DACA) that are concerned about your status during the 6 month period, you have nothing to worry about - No action!


Didn't they shorten various renewal/application windows? Isn't this a lie that will end up hurting a lot of people?
posted by Etrigan at 7:00 AM on September 7 [16 favorites]


When Trump Aides Admit He Has No Idea What He’s Talking About
Sometimes you have to step back and marvel that the president doesn’t know anything about anything – and that he doesn’t care that he doesn’t know. Anonymous aides have been warning us for months that Trump is incurious on matters of policy and process to the point that he makes George W. Bush look like Adlai Stevenson.
...
The dearth of knowledge about how laws, the government or the criminal justice system works, and the insouciance with which he displays his ignorance, are qualities that define the 45th president. This is a man who understands one thing better than anyone: how to whip a crowd into a reactionary strew of resentment and fear. After that, as his own staff has acknowledged for months, he’s got nothin’.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:03 AM on September 7 [32 favorites]


Don't worry, human beings! You won't become Unpersons for at least 6 months! What are you bitching about? Absolute and complete absence of empathy.

That, yes, but also: there's a lot to worry about in that six month period, and a number of changes that go into effect far in advance of six months, so that's just not true, on a strictly 'how does DACA work' basis, before we get into basic human empathy. Which does seem to fit the narrative of the President not understanding what DACA actually is, or how it works.

Didn't they shorten various renewal/application windows? Isn't this a lie that will end up hurting a lot of people?


Yes, if you would need to renew in that six-month window you need to do it, now, within one month (by October 5th); there's a fairly hefty processing fee, too, so if people were saving up with a mind to have that money ready in a few months -- well.

He's either lying or he's ignorant of the law...which isn't an excuse the President can claim.
posted by cjelli at 7:03 AM on September 7 [17 favorites]


Wait, why is the Dem leadership bailing these assholes out of a mess of their own creation? Why are they getting involved at all with something that could blow up so horribly in their faces?

Do they honestly believe that voting down a CR/debt limit hike/Harvey bill for even the most perfect of reasons (amendments that defund Planned Parenthood, end DACA today, etc etc) after they've done that would be painless? Joe Q Public isn't going to hear the part about the GOP breaking the deal first, it'll be wall to wall of "DEMS BREAK FAITH".
posted by Slackermagee at 7:03 AM on September 7


Oh, and: DACA is already ended for anyone who would have been able to apply -- as applications are now closed. So there's that, too.
posted by cjelli at 7:06 AM on September 7 [26 favorites]


And the "Advanced Parole" process was canceled when they made the DACA announcement. That process allowed Dreamers to exit the country and return without loss of status.

So obviously the President has no idea what he's talking about.
posted by notyou at 7:12 AM on September 7 [9 favorites]


Isn't this a lie that will end up hurting a lot of people?

Applicable to virtually everything that has come out of 45's mouth, his Twitter account, or his subordinates.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:22 AM on September 7 [10 favorites]


He's either lying or he's ignorant of the law

Why not both?
posted by flabdablet at 7:29 AM on September 7 [16 favorites]


Like 6 months of terror about what happens next is just nothing. What a piece of shit.
posted by h00py at 7:39 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


Yeah I recommend people read the article linked upthread. It confirms that he is deeply ignorant and incurious, and pretty much just bullshits from one thing to the next.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:40 AM on September 7 [3 favorites]


Democratic leadership is not bailing Trump out. They're giving him 180 days during which he'll be doing stuff they want him to do anyway, hurricane relief, trying to get a DACA bill, etc. before they twist his arm again. In December there will fewer republican politicians supporting Trump and he'll need democratic votes even more than he does now.

I hope that Kim Jung-Un doesn't end up with a sit down meeting with Trump because Tump will end up giving away Iowa.
posted by rdr at 7:43 AM on September 7 [25 favorites]


Slackermagee, they didn't bail the GOP out. Quite the opposite. They were planning to vote to extend the debt ceiling long enough to get past the 2018 elections so it wasn't hanging over their heads. The Dems gave them 3 months instead. Now the Dems look like they're playing fair in the interests of the country, and the GOP now has to deal with this yet again at the end of the year. Which means you'll have a bunch of them making noise about shutting down the government if they don't get what they want. This is going to hang over their heads and be a nice reminder to the country that these people cannot govern. It's also going to contaminate everything else, like their big tax "reform" push.
posted by azpenguin at 7:43 AM on September 7 [30 favorites]


Yep. Every three months Congress have to take their eye off whatever the GOP is destroying that month and focus laser like on scraping enough votes to keep the country afloat.
posted by Talez at 7:47 AM on September 7 [7 favorites]


They were planning to vote to extend the debt ceiling long enough to get past the 2018 elections so it wasn't hanging over their heads.

Reading the accounts of how McConnell/Ryan/Mnuchin started out at 18 months, then went to 12 months, then went to six while the Democrats were counteroffering with 3 every time?

It's like eating ice cream on the couch with my bra off.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:52 AM on September 7 [98 favorites]


joyceanmachine, I keep thinking of this.

It is delicious.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:58 AM on September 7 [3 favorites]


The Washington National Cathedral is removing two stained glass windows of Confederates Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

Peggy Noonan -- Peggy Noonan -- had a response about this action by a Catholic Church regarding two civil war figures. Her response was this:
Peggy Noonan @Peggynoonannyc
A shonda. They were figures in the greatest, most killing moral struggle in US history. They didnt tweet, they took to the field and died.
I cannot begin to express how stabby I feel right now.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:02 AM on September 7 [29 favorites]


Shitfire this Ta-Nehisi Coates article
posted by fleacircus at 8:05 AM on September 7 [25 favorites]


Shitfire this Ta-Nehisi Coates article

If entropy could be reversed I'm sure Trump would be collecting the ashes of Bin Laden to turn back into a corpse and reanimate it just to spite Obama.
posted by Talez at 8:06 AM on September 7 [36 favorites]


Yep. Every three months Congress have to take their eye off whatever the GOP is destroying that month and focus laser like on scraping enough votes to keep the country afloat.

This means that every three months the nutball caucus of the GOP has a new opportunity to sink the country.

Until the debt ceiling is automatically raised as necessary, we can periodically be held as hostages by members of congress who threaten to ruin us all, unless their political demands are met.

Personally I think it kind of sucks that the Democrats are angling to resume the hostage stand-off in three months rather than eighteen.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:07 AM on September 7 [1 favorite]


Until the debt ceiling is automatically raised as necessary,

Which means eliminating the debt ceiling altogether, because it was a stupid idea in the first place, meant only to make GOPers look like budget hawks serious about reducing the deficit while avoiding any actual work of figuring out how to cut the budget.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:11 AM on September 7 [18 favorites]


serious about reducing the deficit while avoiding any actual work of figuring out how to cut the budget.

Because raising taxes (or enforcing existing tax laws better) is not an option at all for those "serious about reducing the deficit" people, of course.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:13 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


Stonewall Jackson, a traitor, was killed by pneumonia that set in after he was hit by a traitor's bullet, a bullet that hit him while Jackson was committing treason in support of the "moral" position that enslavement of black people was good.

Robert E. Lee died after the war.

She is wrong in every possible way. She is so wrong she has stopped making sense entirely. How could it possibly get any...

A shonda.

Fuck yoooooouuuuu.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:13 AM on September 7 [86 favorites]


A shonda.

You're an Irish-American Roman Catholic, Peggy. Quit appropriating my people's language and culture.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:14 AM on September 7 [37 favorites]


They didnt tweet, they took to the field and died.

Just for the record, Lee died five years after surrendering Confederate forces to end the Civil War; and Jackson was killed by Confederates.
posted by Etrigan at 8:15 AM on September 7 [34 favorites]


Oh god. I went to Noonan's feed to see if maybe some context would make that tweet somewhat understandable. It only made it worse.
@Peggynoonannyc
That's what the fight, which existed from our national beginning, was about.They resolved it: all men are and must be free.They RESOLVED it
So, we should credit those who fought to keep slavery with helping to end slavery? WTF.
posted by papercrane at 8:18 AM on September 7 [53 favorites]


had a response about this action by a Catholic Church

Just for the record, the National Cathedral is an Episcopal Church. I'm reasonably sure, but not positive, that only saints are allowed on Catholic stained glass.
posted by khaibit at 8:19 AM on September 7 [11 favorites]


Noonan totally gets what's wrong with kids these days.

"#dying LOL
RIP me"
- Millennial's last words
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:19 AM on September 7


So, we should credit those who fought to keep slavery with helping to end slavery? WTF.

Well Trump tried to credit himself with ending the racist birther movement.

Like shitstain, like dumbass.
posted by Talez at 8:20 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


She is wrong in every possible way. She is so wrong she has stopped making sense entirely. How could it possibly get any...

She's continued to tweet about this, and continues to get more wronger:
Slavery was abolished, and both sides afterward held together -- imperfectly, sometimes uncomfortably. The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly, but in the end constructively we held together and stayed America.
'The leaders of the South...attempted reconciliation' ??????????
posted by cjelli at 8:21 AM on September 7 [40 favorites]


Can I haz Pulitzer Prize for History Revisionism?
posted by runcifex at 8:24 AM on September 7 [3 favorites]


Can I haz Pulitzer Prize for History Revisionism?

You iz a hooman, runcifex. Plz stop appropriating kitteh's language n culture kthxbai.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:26 AM on September 7 [24 favorites]


Joseph Gurl: like comparing different flavors of diarrhea

Uh... are we not doing 'phrasing' any more?
posted by hanov3r at 8:27 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


NYT: Trump Jr. Says He Wanted Russian Dirt to Determine Clinton’s ‘Fitness’ for Office
Donald Trump Jr. told Senate investigators on Thursday that he set up a June 2016 meeting with a Russian lawyer because he was intrigued that she might have damaging information about Hillary Clinton, saying it was important to learn about Mrs. Clinton’s “fitness” to be president...A copy of Mr. Trump’s statement was obtained by The New York Times.
...
Mr. Trump has given differing accounts of his contacts last year with Russians. He told the Times in March that he never met with Russians on behalf of the campaign, a statement his lawyer has since said was meant to refer to Russian government officials. In July, he described the Trump Tower meeting as primarily focused on the issue of Russian adoptions, before eventually acknowledging that he took the meeting because he was told Ms. Veselnitskaya had damaging information about Mrs. Clinton.

But intentionally misspeaking to Congress is a crime, giving his statement on Thursday added weight.
It's interesting to see him, er, adopt this new explanation; the questioning will be interesting -- do we yet know if that will be released?
posted by cjelli at 8:27 AM on September 7 [31 favorites]


Personally I think it kind of sucks that the Democrats are angling to resume the hostage stand-off in three months rather than eighteen.

I'm not a big believer in unilateral disarmament, myself.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:27 AM on September 7 [7 favorites]


You're an Irish-American Roman Catholic, Peggy. Quit appropriating my people's language and culture.

Well, as a half-Irish half-ethnically-Jewish guy raised an Orthodox Christian, I can't go that far, but I'm sure both my ancestries would join me on cultural common ground in simply saying "fuck you, Noonan."
posted by spitbull at 8:29 AM on September 7 [20 favorites]


I'll wait to judge the quality of the hurricane funding/debt ceiling/CR deal once it gets signed, but it does warm my stone-cold heart to see these types of articles on the front page of WaPo.

Some conservatives blame Ryan, McConnell for Trump’s deal with Democrats
There is no sign that Trump’s Wednesday concession marks a broader legislative pivot. But the legislative reality for the GOP’s hard right is brutal: Every Democratic entreaty the president accepts erodes the conservative bloc’s power, which is rooted in its ability to push Republican-only initiatives — like this year’s health-care effort and the coming tax overhaul effort — further to the right.

For a broader group of conservatives, Trump’s decision to side with Pelosi and Schumer over Republican leaders came simply as a shock that forced them to come to terms with the man in whom they had invested their political fortunes.
Deals that frustrates and alienates the Freedom Caucus, and prevents them from pushing the entire agenda to the right are good, I think.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 8:29 AM on September 7 [14 favorites]


She's not wrong that some leaders of the South attempted reconciliation after the war, but Stonewall Jackson sure the fuck wasn't one of them.
posted by corb at 8:30 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


National Embarrassment Peggy Noonan.
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:31 AM on September 7 [14 favorites]


She's not wrong that some leaders of the South attempted reconciliation after the war, but Stonewall Jackson sure the fuck wasn't one of them.

But she didn't say 'some leaders,' she said 'The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation,' which is not so true -- and to the degree that some leaders did, it was reconciliation on the level of political alliances being restored and renewed and not, substantively, reconciliation with the former slaves that they rebelled and fought to keep enslaved. It's both a twisting of the truth and an elision of the harms that continued after the war.
posted by cjelli at 8:33 AM on September 7 [23 favorites]


I'm not a big believer in unilateral disarmament, myself.

That's not how hostage standoffs work. The hostages (us) aren't armed to begin with.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:34 AM on September 7


The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly

I really don't think that's true.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:35 AM on September 7 [14 favorites]


<Seinfeld voice>Noonan</Seinfeld voice>
posted by phearlez at 8:37 AM on September 7 [33 favorites]


It's interesting to see him, er, adopt this new explanation; the questioning will be interesting -- do we yet know if that will be released?

Yeah that's his prepared statement, his best foot forward. He's basically admitting to wrongdoing upfront and still lying about it (claiming "I love it" really meant "Thanks"). I'm pretty sure that just accepting any information would be an FEC violation, regardless of how that information would have been used or not, so he really should have been consulting his lawyers before he took that meeting. I would love to be in the room when he gets questioned.

I doubt any transcript will be released, but have to expect (another) leak to the press at the very least this evening.
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:40 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


But intentionally misspeaking to Congress is a crime, giving his statement on Thursday added weight

Soooo, about his previous, different statement that he gave last time he spoke with them...?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:40 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


"There was no meeting"
"The meeting was about Russian adoptions"
"We didn't discuss the election"
"We discussed the election but they didn't offer information"
"They offered information, but it was bad"
"I had a duty to America to check out the information"
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:41 AM on September 7 [125 favorites]


As someone whose entire family tree is rooted in the Pale of Settlement, I believe that there is definitely a Yiddish curse suited to this occasion, to wit:

I hope a child is named after Peggy Noonan.
posted by nonasuch at 8:43 AM on September 7 [18 favorites]


Trump Jr. Says He Wanted Russian Dirt to Determine Clinton’s ‘Fitness’ for Office

"Sure, she's a two-time Senator from one of the largest states in the Union. Sure, she was Secretary of State. Sure, tens of millions of people have already voted for her. But I, the son of a guy who likes to put his name on things, am actually the best judge of whether she's fit for office." This'll be the Day One lesson in every course on White Male Privilege forever.
posted by Etrigan at 8:44 AM on September 7 [140 favorites]


Etrigan that [fake] quote is so good I want to steal it. omg.
posted by allthinky at 8:46 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


As an Episcopalian who's worshiped in the Cathedral many times, I think Peggy Noonan should keep her fucking nose out of what we do with our churches.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:47 AM on September 7 [16 favorites]


As just some dude on the internet, I think Peggy Noonan is a dipshit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:52 AM on September 7 [36 favorites]


To be fair, she's been in the dipshit business for longer than most. You'd expect her to be pretty good at it by now.
posted by flabdablet at 8:56 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


"The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly"

*very* imperfectly
posted by mazola at 8:56 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


@soledadobrien: 1. They were traitors. 2. Lee died at home in bed. 3. They were not the heroes of the ''moral struggle'. 4. Learn to thread your tweets.

Peggy attempted to explain herself this morning, and not only has she not figured out how to thread tweets (search for "Good morning!" for the start), it's even more incoherent than her original shonda-storm.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:01 AM on September 7 [16 favorites]


Democratic leadership is not bailing Trump out. They're giving him 180 days during which he'll be doing stuff they want him to do anyway, hurricane relief, trying to get a DACA bill, etc. before they twist his arm again. In December there will fewer republican politicians supporting Trump and he'll need democratic votes even more than he does now.

Bear in mind that Republicans, who are not looking forward to the 2018 elections anyway, wanted to kick the debt ceiling can down the road past the elections now, when voters are paying less attention. As it is, they'll now have to take the painful vote to raise the debt ceiling and fund the government at the end of they year, just in time for primary opponents to make hay about it.

(Which wouldn't be a problem if the Republicans themselves hadn't blown the process up with a slew of bad-faith arguments, but hey.)
posted by Gelatin at 9:02 AM on September 7 [8 favorites]


She's not wrong that some leaders of the South attempted reconciliation after the war

Even if she had said this (and as others noted, she didn't), we still shouldn't be honoring them, and certainly not white supremacist slaveholders like Lee. Really, by now every single argument for keeping monuments to Confederates as anything but scrap metal has been completely and utterly destroyed, unmasked as ever-more-idiotic excuses for allowing white supremacist violence to be given highly-honored status in this country. It's high time Noonan and her ilk should be swept into the dustbins of history along with them.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:05 AM on September 7 [15 favorites]


This is me praising that shameless shill and political apologist hack Peggy Noonan, imperfectly.
posted by cmfletcher at 9:07 AM on September 7 [21 favorites]


I just finished reading the Ta-Nehisi Coates piece and can't resist pull-quoting these bits:
“Identity politics … is largely expressive, not persuasive,” Lilla claims. “Which is why it never wins elections—but can lose them.” That Trump ran and won on identity politics is beyond Lilla’s powers of conception. What appeals to the white working class is ennobled. What appeals to black workers, and all others outside the tribe, is dastardly identitarianism."
...
"In a recent New Yorker article, a former Russian military officer pointed out that interference in an election could succeed only where “necessary conditions” and an “existing background” were present. In America, that “existing background” was a persistent racism, and the “necessary condition” was a black president. The two related factors hobbled America’s ability to safeguard its electoral system. As late as July 2016, a majority of Republican voters doubted that Barack Obama had been born in the United States, which is to say they did not view him as a legitimate president. Republican politicians acted accordingly, infamously denying his final Supreme Court nominee a hearing and then, fatefully, refusing to work with the administration to defend the country against the Russian attack. Before the election, Obama found no takers among Republicans for a bipartisan response, and Obama himself, underestimating Trump and thus underestimating the power of whiteness, believed the Republican nominee too objectionable to actually win. In this Obama was, tragically, wrong."
If civilization and scholarship survive, I think this is exactly how history will record what has happened to us. Putin, on the look-out for separatist movements and ethnic conflicts he could exploit, found an easy one in the United States: the remains of the Confederacy, which never really went away. In the end it took very little force on the wedge to split that crack in our foundations wide open.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:08 AM on September 7 [93 favorites]


Right. The GOP choices are now "blow up the world that they themselves live in and have everyone rightly blame them for it in an election year" or "don't blow up the world and watch their base throw a tantrum in an election year."

Not blowing up the world? A wound.
Blowing up the world? Certain death.

Nancy doesn't fuck around.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:08 AM on September 7 [22 favorites]


Peggy Noonan @Peggynoonannyc
A shonda. They were figures in the greatest, most killing moral struggle in US history.


Yeah, they "were figures" -- on the treason-in-defense-of-slavery side. Noonan's careful choice of the word "figures" gives away that she knows there's nothing actually worth celebrating about them other than the Republican Party's embrace of racism.
posted by Gelatin at 9:08 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


I am... alarmed that a speech writer of Noonan's ability (and she has written some great speeches) keeps using the phrase "most killing war". I mean, I get that you're in 140 character space, Peggy, but you're already trying to long-form it with threaded tweets so MAYBE try using a phrase that's closer to grammatically correct?
posted by hanov3r at 9:10 AM on September 7 [7 favorites]


This is the most sensible summary of the McRyan/Schulosi/Trump deal that I've read so far.

What Really Happened at the White House Yesterday
It’s true that Ryan and McConnell did not want a three-month deal. They really did get screwed on that aspect of the deal. If they had their way, the deal would have done away with the debt ceiling forever because it will be a constant threat to their continued careers as leaders of their party. But what they got out of the meeting was the Democratic votes they will need for the debt ceiling and the continuing resolution, and a story line that they were cut off at the knees by the president who sold them out. It’s exactly what they needed.

Schumer and Pelosi look like genius negotiators. And, it’s true, they did very well. But they actually got no more than they were due. In return for their support, they made no concessions and got pretty much nothing else in return. Their one bonus was the short 90-day duration of the deal, because that will allow them to torment the Republicans all over again in December. But they also did the Republicans a big favor by getting them out of a huge jam and giving them back a bunch of legislative days that they can now use to create mischief. In any case, they had needs when they want into the meeting, and those needs were met.

Trump had to pivot to the Democrats at this point not because he’s some brilliant strategist but because, as I have been explaining over and over again, the plan Ryan and McConnell sold him did not work. And he ran out of time and had no other choice remaining to him but to go to the Democrats and beg them for help on the debt ceiling and avoiding a government shutdown. [...] In any case, Trump went into this meeting needing the Democrats’ support and with the Republican leaders needing some cover for the deal they were all about to agree to. He got the support and provided the cover. [...]

If you watched Lawrence O’Donnell last night, however, you would have a completely different impression of what happened yesterday. In his version, the only significant thing that happened is that Trump took the first shitty deal that Schumer offered and knifed Ryan and McConnell without much caring or even necessarily knowing what he was doing. Trump’s a terrible negotiator and some kind of simpleton. McConnell and Ryan got nothing and were completely blindsided. And Schumer is a conquering hero who somehow fleeced them all.

I’m sorry, but that is a ridiculously distorted view of what occurred in the White House yesterday. What really happened is that they all went into the meeting with some very pressing and almost desperate needs and they came out of the meeting with those needs almost perfectly met.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:18 AM on September 7 [32 favorites]


Even if she had said this (and as others noted, she didn't), we still shouldn't be honoring them, and certainly not white supremacist slaveholders like Lee.

I wouldn't go quite that far. Lee's legacy is properly honored by having his family's property confiscated as a cemetery where people who fought for the United Stated are buried.
posted by Gelatin at 9:27 AM on September 7 [22 favorites]


Man is it just impossible for pundits to ever let the Democrats have a win at something? Must any victory be met with "Oh yes, they THOUGHT they won, but actually, they were doing what the Republicans always wanted, poor saps." The implication being somehow that Pelosi and Schumer could have REALLY put the screws to 45 if they'd been smarties like the Monday-morning quarterback writing the column. But haha, no, they're Democrats!

In other news, I would like to drive all the pundits into the sea.
posted by emjaybee at 9:28 AM on September 7 [66 favorites]


I'm pretty sure the reason confederates didn't tweet is because they were using rotary phones attached to walls just as constitution demands. Plus they were all on Friendster.
posted by srboisvert at 9:30 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


I am suspicious of both liberal (O'Donnell) and conservative (the Examiner) narratives of the White House deal. Each is biased and self-serving.
posted by xyzzy at 9:30 AM on September 7 [1 favorite]


I feel like Peggy Noonan is the type of person who would be offended, like, literally offended, if I wore flip flops in her presence. Even on a beach.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:30 AM on September 7 [9 favorites]


New Details Emerge About Russians Who Met With Donald Trump Jr. (NPR, Sept. 6, 2017) -- A foundation aimed at repealing a set of sanctions known as the Magnitsky Act has strong links to many of the Russians who attended the June 2016 meeting with Donald Trump Jr. and others.
JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Just off one of the main thoroughfares here in downtown Wilmington, Del., is a two-story red brick building on a narrow, tree-lined street. This is where the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative Foundation is registered. The foundation was established in February 2016, and all those associated with it have deep ties to Russia. Their stated aim - to overturn a ban on the adoption of Russian children by American families. Seva Gunitsky, a Russian specialist at the University of Toronto, isn't buying it.

SEVA GUNITSKY: Whenever anybody on the Russian side says adoption ban, that's really code for the Magnitsky Act.
...
LOUISE SHELLEY: The people who met Donald Trump Jr. are people who are close to the Russian power structures.

NORTHAM: Louise Shelley is an expert in Russian organized crime and corruption at George Mason University. She says none of the Russians at the June 2016 meeting with Trump Jr. are actually employed by the Kremlin, but they all have connections to upper echelons of power there and are carrying out Putin's wishes.

SHELLEY: Either they're part of the legal apparatus that helps him, the political apparatus that helps him or are engaged in negative public relations campaigns which are also a very important technique of the Kremlin to go after its enemies.

NORTHAM: Shelley says the Kremlin still believes ending the Magnitsky sanctions is a priority, and advocates such as Katsyv, Veselnitskaya and Akhmetshin are integral to that. None are registered as a foreign agent, but that hasn't stopped them from pushing to overturn the act.
Remember, Trump was a failing real estate developer until he started laundering dirty Russian money.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:30 AM on September 7 [27 favorites]


I would elaborate but I have a baby in the crook of one arm who refuses to sleep anywhere else. So I will simply say: Longman is full of shit.
posted by phearlez at 9:31 AM on September 7 [6 favorites]


Some conservatives blame Ryan, McConnell for Trump’s deal with Democrats

Re: this story, this paragraph
In pockets of the conservative media, knives came out for Ryan, not the president. Trump, Fox Business host Lou Dobbs pronounced Wednesday,” not only took RINO Ryan to the woodshed, but eliminated any need for any Republican to ever pretend again that Ryan is a real Republican in any way.”
is notable because in the Trumpophile corners of the internet this is exactly their take. Ryan and McConnell are worse than Pelosi and Schumer because ... well, because Ryan and McConnell aren't sufficiently loyal to their lord and master. Despite trying to do what Trump was presumably elected to do in the face of Trump's own opposition, Ryan and McConnell are the bad guys here. Now does any of that actually mean anything? (Besides being another demonstration that Trump's fans are all utter morons.) Dunno, very little probs. But I'll take any opportunity to watch Ryan and McConnell eat shit.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:31 AM on September 7 [6 favorites]


My big worry about the deal is that it frees up September in the Senate for another push at ACA repeal -- since, as we discussed in the last thread, the way the reconciliation process is structured means it would be very helpful to the GOP agenda to get it passed before the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:31 AM on September 7 [3 favorites]


A shonda. They were figures in the greatest, most killing moral struggle in US history.

So you want your church to have stained-glass windows of Pilate and Nero?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:35 AM on September 7 [8 favorites]


I hope that Kim Jung-Un doesn't end up with a sit down meeting with Trump because Tump will end up giving away Iowa.

You say that like it's a bad thing, but it's one way we can get rid of Steve King.
posted by jackbishop at 9:35 AM on September 7 [20 favorites]


> Man is it just impossible for pundits to ever let the Democrats have a win at something?

I don't know why this has elicited such an angry response. The quoted text acknowledges that Democrats got a 3-month extension instead of the much longer one McRyan wanted. But the idea that somehow the Democrats ROLLED Trump and the GOP has no basis in fact. Everyone came into the meeting needing things, and all parties got some things, but no party got everything they wanted.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:35 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


Hunters Sour On Trump's Interior Secretary Over Public Lands Review (NPR, Sept. 6, 2017)
Hunters, fishermen and other sportsmen had high expectations when Ryan Zinke was tapped to be President Trump's interior secretary, in part because of his promise to bring a balanced, Teddy Roosevelt-style vision to managing public lands.

But the former Republican congressman from Montana is now the target of a critical ad campaign by one of those groups, a symptom of eroding support among a deep-pocketed faction that has become increasingly influential.

Zinke "definitely likes to espouse the ideals of Teddy Roosevelt," says John Sullivan, chairman of the Montana chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, who is featured in the ad [YT]. "He's not living up to them now."

In particular, the sportsmen are upset by Zinke's handling of a controversial review of protected national monuments and the scope of restrictions on how they are used. The review covers 27 protected monuments that are larger than 100,000 acres.

The secretary is not expected to recommend the elimination of any of the monuments. But a handful are slated to be shrunk in size, and the sportsmen say that reducing their boundaries means potentially more land for development and less for hunters.
Nelson: Ha-ha.

Oh, he's still pushing to shrink monuments? Aw, fook. At least they're facing legal battles, so it's not a quick change.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:38 AM on September 7 [18 favorites]


OnceUponATime, thank you for the blockquote.

Just for reference, this is the New Yorker article that Coates quoted re: the "former Russian officer" speaking about the pre-existing necessary conditions for election interference: Trump, Putin, and the New Cold War.
Even with the rise of new technologies, the underlying truth about such operations hasn’t changed. They are less a way to conjure up something out of nothing than to stir a pot that is already bubbling. In the U.S., a strategy like the alleged hacking of the Democrats was merely an effort to deepen an existing state of disarray and distrust. “For something to happen, many factors have to come together at once,” said Alexander Sharavin, the head of a military research institute and a member of the Academy of Military Sciences, in Moscow, where Gerasimov often speaks. “If you go to Great Britain, for example, and tell them the Queen is bad, nothing will happen, there will be no revolution, because the necessary conditions are absent—there is no existing background for this operation.” But, Sharavin said, “in America those preconditions existed.”
posted by runcifex at 9:38 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


What really happened is that they all went into the meeting with some very pressing and almost desperate needs and they came out of the meeting with those needs almost perfectly met.

I'm not in disagreement with this, in terms of concrete outcomes. However, I think it's a mistake to ignore the outcomes in terms of perception of what happened, which is important - if this deal deepens divides in the R side, and causes more infighting, that is an important takeaway right now.

As far as the actual deal meeting everyone's needs, albeit not perfectly - isn't that how politics is supposed to work?
posted by nubs at 9:39 AM on September 7 [9 favorites]


The secretary is not expected to recommend the elimination of any of the monuments. But a handful are slated to be shrunk in size, and the sportsmen say that reducing their boundaries means potentially more land for development and less for hunters.

Scorpion, snake, leopard, and so on.
posted by Gelatin at 9:40 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


Remember, Trump was a failing real estate developer until he started laundering dirty Russian money.

I do suspect it's a matter of when, rather than if, that the Trump org. goes belly up. Particularly if the (alleged but probable) line of Russian credit is cut off, either at source or due to scrutiny from the investigations.

Not only would the liquidators have access to the books, but it's also possible that all the infamous NDAs he requires employees to sign would become void (depending on what entity the Trump signing party is). Guessing there's a lot of said employees have reveal-all-book-length tales to tell.
posted by Buntix at 9:40 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


I don't know why this has elicited such an angry response.

Because every time the Dems block anything (see also, Trumpcare) some truth teller comes out to explain how this is actually good for the Republicans anyway and it's just exhausting and depressing and puts wind in the sails of all the hopeless feelings we already have.

Maybe it's true and yet again, Paul Ryan wins when he loses. But I want 24 hours with the feeling that he got it stuck to him and his turtle friend.

It's probably a good article, but I am not ready to read it.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:42 AM on September 7 [16 favorites]


I just finished reading the Ta-Nehisi Coates piece and....

...and I had to sit at my desk hating people for a while.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:43 AM on September 7 [19 favorites]


Let's see what happens in September. If ACA gets repealed or some cockamamie tax scheme gets rolled through Congress with the suddenly free legislative calendar, then maybe the Democrats fucked up. If a big nothing turd pops out and we head into the next fiscal year with no budget and a more fractured GOP caucus, then Democrats should take a big pat on the back.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:44 AM on September 7 [1 favorite]


Let Ryan and McConnell try to take another whack at the ACA this month. Those talking points about how people can just save for their health care costs--and besides good people take Care of themselves and don't get sick--are going to go over *real* well after four million people in Texas were financially ruined by a natural disaster that had them steeping in filthy, chemical-laden water.

Go ahead, I want to hear those personal responsibility arguments now. I triple-dog dare you.
posted by Sublimity at 9:46 AM on September 7 [19 favorites]


Andrea Grimes twitter thread:

"Here's a terrible, shitty story about white migration to the United States. About my own family. . . . I am the descendant of a rapist. A committer of white-on-white crime. An entire asshole whose whiteness forged my family's success. . . . I don't feel personally guilty for the behavior of people 200 years ago; I feel responsibility to remedy the effects of oppression TODAY. . . . I have done and said some really horrible, White Feminist shit about race, when I was WAY old enough to know better. . . . The ONLY thing that got me closer to right on this shit is following POC on twitter, listening, and trying to work on myself and my views. . . . "

Also, related to (way upthread) white supremacists trying to mine medieval history for validation, here's David M. Perry in Pacific Standard, "What To Do When Nazis Are Obsessed With Your Field":
[They] keep scouring texts for secret racism anywhere that the creator doesn't explicitly reject it. . . . As I confronted the castle photos on Stormfront, though, and similar threads about other artifacts of the medieval past, I thought about all the lectures and classes I've given about these objects in which I unspooled their glory, never thinking about the ways in which white supremacists might well seize on my narratives. When I've done presentations of medieval castles, kvelling over their crenellations and sophisticated designs to students, I had never paused to consider what subtext a white supremacist might have chosen to extract from my teaching. As a field, we've got to be ready for the white supremacist in our classroom—think Peter Cvjetanovic—but we teach so that the rest of the class can recognize and refute racist claims about history.

The western Middle Ages is going to remain attractive to white supremacists. Our solutions to this problem include explicitly signaling our rejection of racism and working harder to diversify the field, but also dethroning the very notion of the Middle Ages—mostly Christian, mostly located in western Europe, isolated from other peoples—itself. How we each choose to act will vary by employment status, risk of violence, and other factors. Not everyone has a platform. Not everyone controls their syllabus. But everyone needs to accept that, like Taylor Swift, the Middle Ages has a problem with Nazis who love us.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 9:46 AM on September 7 [34 favorites]


I do suspect it's a matter of when, rather than if, that the Trump org. goes belly up. Particularly if the (alleged but probable) line of Russian credit is cut off, either at source or due to scrutiny from the investigations.

Given that what Trump Jr. didn't say in his prepared statement (but NPR did yesterday, in an act of actual journalism) is that Putin and his cronies need the Magnitsky Act repealed in order to free up ill-gotten oligarch assets, so it'd be sweet if Trump's collapse also meant Russian money-launderers also got burned financially.
posted by Gelatin at 9:46 AM on September 7 [8 favorites]


If I can't get an impeachment, I would be slightly mollified by Trump Org getting hacked off at the knees by Russia/Deutsche Bank due to his inability to return on Russia's investment in his campaign. In other news, I've put my statue of Buddha in a closet. I've lost all of my ability to feel compassion for my enemies.
posted by xyzzy at 9:46 AM on September 7 [16 favorites]


Politico: DeVos to revamp Obama-era schools sexual assault policy
The Trump administration will replace an Obama-era schools directive on sexual assault...Education Secretary Betsy DeVos announced Thursday.
...
The Trump administration will revamp the guidance through a rulemaking process that likely will take months, DeVos said during a speech at George Mason University in which she blasted the current guidance as unfair to those accused of sexual assault or harassment. She said the administration will give all sides a chance to offer opinions on how it should move forward, but the decision is expected to be slammed by advocates for victims of sexual assault, Democrats and some state officials.
...
DeVos made the announcement during a tightly controlled event at the university's Arlington, Va., campus. She did not take questions after the short speech.

The decision was long expected. DeVos said in July — after a series of meetings with sexual assault survivors, students accused of assault and college officials — that she would rework the guidance. She told reporters at the time that “it’s clear that there are failings in this process. A system without due process protections ultimately serves no one in the end.”
...
Complicating the issue for DeVos are comments made by her civil rights chief, Candice Jackson, who told The New York Times this summer that 90 percent of sexual assault claims stem from drunken and regretted sex....“With an acting assistant secretary for civil rights who blamed sexual assaults on alcohol and regret and a president with his own concerning history on the issue, it’s clear Secretary DeVos could use some suggestions on how to combat the epidemic of campus sexual violence,” Sen. Patty Murray, a Washington Democrat and the ranking member of the Senate education committee, said in a statement ahead of the announcement.
This is going to be a slow-moving story, since a multi-month rules-making process means that there's a lot of room for DeVos and others to defer questions and comments to the end of the process, but the decision to re-write these rules in the first place speaks for itself.
posted by cjelli at 9:47 AM on September 7 [28 favorites]


Let Ryan and McConnell try to take another whack at the ACA this month.
This is not a fucking game. This is our fucking lives. We're hanging on to the ACA by our fingertips, and it is very, very likely that one of these days they're going to succeed in getting rid of it. Could people stop talking about it as if this is about scoring political points?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:49 AM on September 7 [20 favorites]


I don't know why this has elicited such an angry response.

Because it commits a major sin in it's basic premise: it talks about the Republicans as a single group when discussing the topic of the debt ceiling. Every indication is that's not remotely true. There are members of the Republican caucus who would like to never expand the debt ceiling (Never mind the consequences), who would like to only expanded it if there's major cuts, and so on. To say they got a win at this is to completely ignore all of those differences. It completely ignores the nature of the last major battle they had over this within their own group.
posted by phearlez at 9:49 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


> I'm not in disagreement with this, in terms of concrete outcomes. However, I think it's a mistake to ignore the outcomes in terms of perception of what happened, which is important - if this deal deepens divides in the R side, and causes more infighting, that is an important takeaway right now.

Longman's point is that the divides were already as deep as they can possibly get. To the extent that the media coverage of the Democrats makes Ryan and McConnell look overmatched and feckless, I think that's a good thing in and of itself. But talking about the direct outcomes of the deal in glowing terms as O'Donnell did is inventing a narrative that's not actually there.

Maybe it's a mistake not to mention the possible effects of weakening McConnell and Ryan, and the fact that the press can actually run headlines talking about the Democratic leadership in positive terms is certainly encouraging to me personally, but the gains that accrue from changing narrative can be erased very quickly if the press changes their mind / sees another shiny object, so I would much rather focus on the direct results of the negotiations, not things that can only be converted into material gains later if the press decides to go with their tried and true "Democrats in disarray" narratives.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:49 AM on September 7 [1 favorite]


> Because it commits a major sin in it's basic premise: it talks about the Republicans as a single group when discussing the topic of the debt ceiling.

This just isn't true. The possibility of McConnell and Ryan losing their jobs because of the teahadists is mentioned, as is the fact that they wanted cover for the temporary extension. The fact that the Freedom Caucus isn't called out by name means you actually have to read the full piece carefully to understand this, but it's definitely there.

But at this point I should de-threadsit to avoid a further derail. Reasonable people can disagree on this stuff, I was just linking to the analysis that made the most sense to me.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:56 AM on September 7 [1 favorite]


Longman's point is that the divides were already as deep as they can possibly get.

2016-2017 should have already disabused everyone of the notion of "rock bottom."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:57 AM on September 7 [17 favorites]


Journalists grabbed a damn boat and huffed it to go check on the toxic waste, which is more than the government did, yet the EPA is calling them lazy?

I'm way behind and responding to something from four years days ago, but for the sake of fairness, I think it's important, when talking about government agencies these days, to make a distinction between what the agency as a whole has to say vs. what some Trump crony who technically "works" there has to say. I doubt most of the civil servants working at the EPA appreciate one of their new boss's henchmen making ridiculous accusations while claiming to speak for them.
posted by shponglespore at 9:57 AM on September 7 [11 favorites]


I remember back around December/January when there was all the pearl-clutching and crying about "San Francisco Nancy" and how her librul patchouli stench would ROO-IN, just ROO-IN the Democratic "brand." Now who is having the last laugh?

The lesson should be, "Do not try to cater to the mythical swing voter or Reagan Democrat, who no longer exist. Dare to be liberal." I do not know if it's a kind of party-wide C-PTSD as a result of the Nixon through Reagan years, or because donors are breathing down their necks, or obliviousness, or what, but I worry that the Democratic party (as a whole) hasn't learned that lesson.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:58 AM on September 7 [17 favorites]


McCain already said he'd vote for Graham-Cassidy. That's repealing all of Obamacare, capping and block granting Medicaid at a rate that will eventually mean the end of Medicaid as we know it.

Anyone that wants to see another healthcare vote this month is insane.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:00 AM on September 7 [26 favorites]


Civil Rights Division Nominee Eric Dreiband Appears Before Senate Panel (NPR, Sept. 6, 2017) -- More than 70 civil rights groups are objecting to President Trump's nomination of Eric Dreiband to serve as assistant attorney general for the Civil Rights Division. On Wednesday, Dreiband got a hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Kevin Daley wrote a summary of Dreiband's conflicting history for the Daily Caller (Sept. 6, 2017), calling out both his more recent time pushing against civil rights, and his former period with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC),
According to publicly available figures compiled by the agency, EEOC filed an average of 418 suits during the two years Dreiband served as general counsel. During the Obama years, the agency averaged just 205 suits, less than half Dreiband’s yearly average.
Of course, there's no note on who was supported (and targeted) by those lawsuits, and how they fared in court.

Still, it sounds like he handled the questions better than the the two controversial appeals court nominees, Amy Coney Barrett and Joan Larsen, both former clerks of late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia (NPR, Sept. 7, 2017 - audio only at the moment, transcript up later). The conservative Washington Examiner has some coverage, but Ryan Lovelace left out the fact that Republican John Kennedy posed many of the questions, and also pissed off at the non-answers when they wouldn't comment on what decisions they disagreed with. But Sheldon Whitehouse had the best point:
It cannot be that the law is so clear that you put the information in like a robot and come out with an answer. If that were true, all court decisions would be unanimous. Indeed if that were true, why would there be any need for courts at all.
To dig into who's been approved for which positions, you can refer to this Wikipedia list of federal judges appointed by DJT.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:05 AM on September 7 [7 favorites]


This just isn't true. The possibility of McConnell and Ryan losing their jobs because of the teahadists is mentioned, as is the fact that they wanted cover for the temporary extension. The fact that the Freedom Caucus isn't called out by name means you actually have to read the full piece carefully to understand this, but it's definitely there.

Nobody is disputing that the article was trying to have it all ways by making concessions and then refusing to accept the weight of those concessions. But it still full of shit. You can see proof of that right in the early graphs.

First, the president was sold on a dual-reconciliation strategy by Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan [...] Using this trick, both could be passed without fear of a Senate filibuster and therefore, supposedly, without having to make any concessions to the Democrats.

This strategy did not work. It never really had a chance of working. I said from the beginning that it was doomed and I was right.


If this fucker was too lazy to stay up until one in the morning to watch this bullet barely skate by our ear when McCain didn't give them the one vote they needed, or hasn't seen this week's noises from McCain that maybe he'll vote for the new nonsense, then he should just stop typing.

The consequences of Trump adopting this plan have been catastrophic. He hasn’t signed a single significant piece of legislation. He hasn’t been able to keep most of his key promises.

This makes no sense when his key promises included not touching Medi* which the legislation then and now does. Further, it was never possible for him to pass anything in any other way given that this only needed 50 votes and other things needed 60. So as far as I'm concerned this guy's credibility is shit before we're even in paragraph five.
posted by phearlez at 10:06 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


Politico: Senate GOP accepting defeat on Obamacare repeal
"We’ve seen that we don’t have 51 votes to do it, so we’re going to have to do it bipartisan," said Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas) in an interview on Thursday morning [9/7]. Asked if the Senate would hold an Obamacare repeal vote before the Senate's budget reconciliation instructions expire, he replied: “I don’t believe so."

The Senate parliamentarian ruled that the GOP's party-line attempts to repeal the law will fall away after Sept. 30. Republicans can write new ones, but they are aiming to use the next budget reconciliation vehicle to overhaul the tax code with 50 votes. Reconciliation allows the Senate majority to evade a Democratic filibuster and the chamber's 60-vote threshold.

Privately, some Republicans said they were relieved about the parliamentarian's ruling because they are eager to avoid another frantic attempt to gut the law.
...
“I’m sure we’ll vote on some Obamacare-related language at some point," Cornyn said. "I Just don’t know exactly what it’s going to be."
The thing complicating repeal-and-replace legislation -- which the full article alludes to -- is that time and effort spent on that means time not spent trying to get Democrats in the Senate on board with short-terms fixes; and a non-zero number of Republicans in the Senate want either short-term fixes or a wholly new system of their own devising -- but they don't want the ACA to implode through inaction on the President's part and have that blow back on Congress in 2018. That's why the earlier AHCA bill had so many effects coming online or sunsetting after midterms or after the 2020 election: they wanted the credit for repeal but none of the pain of an actual repeal to reflect on themselves.

I'm not going to stop worrying that this is just flimflammery until we're safely in October, and I'm worried about what kind of short-term measures they might pass or fail to pass in the meantime, but the prospects for passing an ACA repeal bill in the dead of night this month are less good than they might at first seem, even if McCain is theoretically on board with some version of that. After September -- we should still be very worried, and we should still be calling our representatives.
posted by cjelli at 10:12 AM on September 7 [21 favorites]


The Obama DOJ's work on Title IX was one of the most enlightened bits of public policy in the U.S. since the early 70s, IMHO. The operation was slow, but the work on the language and process was so heartening.

That De Vos, with her 0 years of experience and 0 amount of study on this issue gets a shot at dismantling it is one just really awful element of this whole rotten administration.
posted by allthinky at 10:12 AM on September 7 [68 favorites]


Longman's point is that the divides were already as deep as they can possibly get.

As long as they keep voting in lockstep, I would question how deep those divides are. As with so many things on the R side, it's a bunch of noise and fury until it comes to actual action and then everyone pretty much appears to line up as required, all noise of "concerns", "grave doubts", and "serious questions" aside.

We need to see what happens now, I guess. As much as I hate the sports metaphor as applied to politics, its rarely a good idea to try to judge the winner of a trade immediately; you need to see how it plays out.
posted by nubs at 10:13 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


And a final thought from my slow-working brain: I guess maybe I shouldn't be using the word "divide" as much as I should be saying "split" or "fracture".
posted by nubs at 10:16 AM on September 7


'The leaders of the South...attempted reconciliation'

Shit, even many leaders of the North (notably Andrew Johnson) didn't care a whit about dismantling the Southern institutions that existed under slavery: White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide
posted by Rykey at 10:26 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


Remember before the election when Speaker Ryan said he would never defend Trump again? Maybe he should have stuck with that instead of defending his absurd and destructive behavior each day! His only reward is zero major legislation passed, a chaotic Executive Branch and a President who is now willing to work with the Democrats to undermine Ryan's priorities. President Trump has sucked out Speaker Ryan's dignity, as if drinking his milkshake. 😪
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:31 AM on September 7 [3 favorites]


Technically it was less a milkshake and more of a Slim-Fast Ready Meal In A Can, but still.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:32 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


Or as I have heard it called, Slime-Fast.
posted by bearwife at 10:33 AM on September 7 [8 favorites]


"The meeting was about Russian adoptions"

This is an important and still developing story about why "adoptions" are the tip of the iceberg of a much larger story of Kremlin-connected corruption and gangsterism. "Whenever anybody on the Russian side says adoption ban, that's really code for the Magnitsky Act..."
posted by Miko at 10:36 AM on September 7 [19 favorites]


"The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly"

I'm just honored to have witnessed the world record of "imperfectly"s.
posted by chris24 at 10:39 AM on September 7 [21 favorites]


If your unconscious concept of citizenship is between "white moderates" and "white conservatives", then "reconciliation" is not a bad summary of what happened after Reconstruction.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:50 AM on September 7 [10 favorites]




> WHAT.

Big caveat in there about this being a "gentleman's agreement", and one of the parties to that agreement being Trump.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:54 AM on September 7 [29 favorites]


That is an interesting trade-off. No more debt ceiling deals splitting the GOP, but also no more brinksmanship they can use to extort something in return for not ruining the economy.

Also, you get one massive intraparty fight for the Republicans that could make for a very entertaining primary season.

nth-dimensional chess interpretation: Schumer doesn't think this will actually pass the House, but is banking on the Freedom Caucus going full scorched-earth on their own party to kill it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:55 AM on September 7 [18 favorites]


...but yeah, the fact that it's even talked about as being in consideration for being put on the table in future negotiations is great. The sooner we can kill the debt ceiling, the better. Plus we could heat most of the US through the winter with the white hot rage of the Freedumb Caucus.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:55 AM on September 7 [18 favorites]


Longman's point is that the divides were already as deep as they can possibly get.

As long as they keep voting in lockstep, I would question how deep those divides are.


Exactly. Until such time as the less crackpot wing of the party is willing to turn their back on the Dave Brats of the House, even if that means enlisting democrats to get shit done, the divide is not as deep as it can get. This is a divide that amounts up to (and I use this metaphor to just torture nubs) the team unable to decide where to get pizza after the game but still willing to play as a team on the field to beat their opponents. Until such time as they say I will not play with that person they're not really divided. They're just annoyed.

And, again, that's the problem with the Longman piece. It talks about Ryan and McConnell needing cover from those nutters and getting it, so they supposedly got what they wanted. Calling that part of a win is flawed because it's not a win, it's just the cost of doing business in the current system rather than actually addressing the teahadist issue. To call it a win implies there was ever a possibility of a loss in that regard, meaning they turn their back on those people. They have eschewed a thousand other opportunities to do so, so giving it any real weight now is silly. They never were going to do it. So Longman gets it right - the only thing ever up for negotiation was the distance the can gets kicked down the road - and somehow manages to say that having it be the least desired distance by McConnell and Ryan doesn't represent a full win.

They got the most they could possibly get out of this meeting. It's not a real win because they didn't get a pony is dumb. And that doesn't even address the fact that saying McConnell and Ryan manage thusly to avoid getting Boehnered isn't remotely the same as a Republican win. A notable portion of the Republican caucus and voters are pissed off about this because they got zero concessions and it represents doing something many of them don't like and sets them up for another pissing match in 90 days. The Dem caucus, on the other hand, had to grant zero concessions, got everything they wanted, and sets their opponents up for another mess later. And on top of all that, it's not really a sure thing that this doesn't get Ryan punched in the nose.

I will concede that there may be one group that got a win here beyond the Dems - the teahadists get to say they were undercut by Trump and didn't get a chance to do this hugely self and country-destructive thing. So, you know, they got a win they didn't ask for in the sense that they don't get to burn it all down like they'd like. But since that means all the rest of us get a win too I don't see why we should put that on the board. The hitter blasted that homer over the wall so the mediocre left fielder didn't face the possibility of dropping it. Why am I so into tweaking nubs right now? No idea. Sorry nubs.

Why yes, the baby did finally let me put him down, how did you know?
posted by phearlez at 10:56 AM on September 7 [20 favorites]


Good find, Miko! That explains that whole adoption thing.
posted by JHarris at 11:02 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I continue to feel completely blown away at what a big deal that "adoption" thing is, and how it reveals this crawling roach's nest of global oligrarchs with Western government leaders in their pockets. IT's disgusting. And concerning.

No wonder Putin so desperately didn't want Hillary to win. She'd have continued the Obama crackdown on the sequestering of Russian money in the US, and would have advocated that the other wealthy democracies do so, too.
posted by Miko at 11:10 AM on September 7 [24 favorites]


The lesson should be, "Do not try to cater to the mythical swing voter or Reagan Democrat, who no longer exist. Dare to be liberal." I do not know if it's a kind of party-wide C-PTSD as a result of the Nixon through Reagan years, or because donors are breathing down their necks, or obliviousness, or what, but I worry that the Democratic party (as a whole) hasn't learned that lesson.

QFT; both parts, unfortunately.
posted by Gelatin at 11:12 AM on September 7 [10 favorites]


It's fun to compare and contrast the statement the President himself wrote about the Russia meeting:
It was a short introductory meeting. I asked Jared and Paul to stop by. We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at the time and there was no follow up.
with the most recent version:
Donald Trump Jr. told Senate investigators on Thursday that he set up a June 2016 meeting with a Russian lawyer because he was intrigued that she might have damaging information about Hillary Clinton, saying it was important to learn about Mrs. Clinton’s “fitness” to be president
And this incredibly credible story being told now via Jim Sciutto (who might learn how to thread tweets some day):
Breaking: Asked by Sen staff if he took any #Russians to see his father after June 2016 Trump Tower mtg, or told him abt it Don Jr denies 1/
2/Asked why his father promised the next day dirt is coming on Hillary Clinton, Don Jr told Senate that's just the way his father talks.
3/ Don Jr tells committee he didn't recall the details of the White House involvement in the public response to his meeting.
I realize the President lies all the time, but this particular lie is massive.

And if you're not reading Ta-Nehisi Coates' essay, or at least saving it to read later if you can't right now, you are doing this thread wrong.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on September 7 [42 favorites]


I know nothing about anything, but wouldn't Putin be like super pissed that T is allowing Russians to give birth to their children in the US? Their modus operandi has always been, make the Russians stay in Russia, no defections...

and a President who is now willing to work with the Democrats to undermine Ryan's priorities.

Er, no. The president wouldn't even understand that sentence.
posted by Melismata at 11:18 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]


No wonder Putin so desperately didn't want Hillary to win.

Instead he's got a tiger by the tail in that if/when Trump goes down then there could be a lot coming to light re the Russian oligarchs' international laundry business.

Including, potentially, a major backlash with a lot of asset forfeiture and increased sanctions beyond what Hillary would have been likely to get through.
posted by Buntix at 11:19 AM on September 7 [11 favorites]


The assumption seems to be that this will be a clean bill and that if it isn't a clean bill the Dems won't take the heat for voting no after pledging yes to a clean bill.

Has even that tiny level of nuance been seen yet in congressional reporting? Have the GOP been truly held to account for poisoning deals, bills, etc etc then walking away from the smoking ruins of what was needed?

I don't think this is a bad move because Schumer and Pelosi don't know what they're doing. I think it's a bad move because it doesn't matter if Schumer and Pelosi know what they're doing.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:20 AM on September 7


The assumption seems to be that this will be a clean bill and that if it isn't a clean bill the Dems won't take the heat for voting no after pledging yes to a clean bill.

The bill already passed the House and the Senate is voting on it as we speak. They beefed up some of the Harvey funding (more money for Community Development Block Grants in hurricane-impacted areas in fact), but I haven't seen anything about the GOP poisoning it. They've got this.

There's also going to be a fun vote in 35 minutes or so where House Ways & Means Republicans will be bringing up a resolution to release Trump's tax returns only to vote it down, because otherwise it's something the entire House would have to go on the record by voting on it. But at least we'll get a bunch of Republicans on the record with votes that they don't want to see what Trump is hiding.
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on September 7 [29 favorites]


@hannahdreier: "Getting tips that ICE is gearing up for a major raid called "Operation Mega" that would net 8,400 immigrants nationwide from Sept. 17 - 22"

{ Twitter bio: ProPublica reporter covering immigration. Previously, three years in Venezuela as correspondent for The AP. }

No details beyond the above yet.
posted by Buntix at 11:34 AM on September 7 [7 favorites]


"The leaders of the South largely attempted reconciliation, imperfectly"

I suppose it's beating a dead horse to point out yet again how wrong My Lady Peggington is, but, yeah, that "imperfectly attempted reconciliation" includes the brutal assassination of Benjamin Franklin Randolph, a black state senator from Orangeburg, SC, in 1868. He wasn't in office a year.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:36 AM on September 7 [12 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

"One could very easily argue... that this was the Big Bad Wolf helping the pigs prepare their homes for hurricane season."
posted by tonycpsu at 11:37 AM on September 7 [24 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

Nice to see them admit that bad-faith dissembling and spurious logic comes so easily to them, but we knew that already.
posted by Gelatin at 11:42 AM on September 7 [5 favorites]


The DNC’s Technology Chief is Phishing His Staff. Good. (Issie Lapowsky for Wired, Sept. 7, 2017)
Issie Lapowsky: You joined the DNC at a time when many others had run away. How come?

Raffi Krikorian: It never crossed my mind until around Inauguration Day. I was in a hotel room in San Francisco, and I was just like, “Gahhh!” I called my friend Alexander Macgillivray, who used to be deputy CTO of the United States and said, “What can someone like me even do in this world?” He laid out two or three options. The DNC was the hardest to get a hold of. I kept pinging, pinging, pinging until the chief of staff took my call. He then introduced me to DNC Chairman Tom Perez, and Tom’s first question was, “What can we do about our cyber problem?” I was like, “Can we just not call it a cyber problem? Can we start there?”
I like Raffi already.
IL: Since you’ve gotten here, what have you done to make the party more secure?

RK: It’s a whole bunch of staff training. Turn off text messages. Move to end-to-end encryption. Get two-factor authentication in place. We’ve moved all our stuff into the cloud. The nice thing is that so many people want to help us. We’re approached by email and storage providers who are willing to fully disclose what their security plans are and how it’ll help us. We’re taking them up on their offers. We’re figuring out how to partner with Microsoft for email or Google for collaboration tools, and then we use a login provider across all our stuff that enforces two-factor authentication.

It’s not exactly rocket science, but you have to do it holistically. I got Tom Perez to stand up in front of the all-staff meeting and be like, “If you’re going to talk to me, Tom Perez, you’re using [the encrypted-messaging app] Signal. I will not respond otherwise.” This is important. The nation’s future is at play here. It’s about getting people to think that way. Even in the next few days we’re going to do a series of simulated phishing attacks on the entire DNC staff.

IL: Do they know that?

RK: You’re the first person I’ve told.
Awesome, all around.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:44 AM on September 7 [84 favorites]


@hannahdreier: "Getting tips that ICE is gearing up for a major raid called "Operation Mega" that would net 8,400 immigrants nationwide from Sept. 17 - 22"

How could that possibly work? Isn't ICE employment around 15,000 total? Where do you put all these folks? It's not that I doubt their willingness to enrich a lot of private prison operators in this way but are their agreements and appropriations in place to pull this off?

I don't buy it.
posted by phearlez at 11:46 AM on September 7 [1 favorite]


If you're wondering why Ryan and McConnell needed this deal, 17 Senate Republicans just voted against the Harvey/debit ceiling/CR bill (passed 80-17): Enzi Fischer Ernst Flake Graham Grassley Johnson Lankford Lee McCain Moran Paul Risch Sasse Toomey. Please remember this when McCain or Sasse are cited as reasonable Republicans. Sure, some of them would have voted for it if they had to, but they were nowhere near able to do this with Republican votes alone.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on September 7 [29 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

Well, sure. I can easily argue the moon is made of green cheese, that the earth will be destroyed on August 23, 2024 by Glebrixu the Destroyer, and that the Lord of the Rings is an actual history book.

The arguments would suck, but I could argue all of that.

And I'm not just talking contradiction, either.
posted by nubs at 11:50 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I don't buy it. From wikipedia (based on data in a 2010 paper):
ICE operates detention centers throughout the United States that detain illegal aliens who are apprehended and placed into removal proceedings. About 31,000 aliens are held in immigration detention on any given day,[27] in over 200 detention centers, jails, and prisons nationwide.[28]
They're going to capture and detain a quantity of people that represents 30% of their usual number of detainees, in one week? That is up there with 9% annual GDP growth as far as credible assertions.
posted by phearlez at 11:51 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


From the DNC CTO article:
IL: Shifting gears slightly, you spent five years at Twitter. Given what we've seen recently, do you believe Twitter’s good or bad for democracy?

RK: I’ve been at the Twitter VP table. I can imagine what these conversations are like. [sighs]. When I was at Twitter, we literally saw people’s high school proms on the platform. I want people to remember that’s the stuff Twitter is really good at, and then I want to figure out how to teach people to use Twitter better. The president has clearly mastered it, but that’s only one way of doing it. There’s amazing grassroots organizing on the platform. Twitter is a medium, and we need to focus on the people using it.
[emphasis mine]

That man has the weirdest definition of "mastered it".
posted by hanov3r at 11:55 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


Nonsense, nubs. The moon is a Wensleydale and The Silmarillion is the the history book.

We should all be preparing for Glebrixu's regin of terror, tho.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:55 AM on September 7 [4 favorites]


Since you’ve gotten here, what have you done to make the party more secure?

We’ve moved all our stuff into the cloud.


GAAAAAAH. When you've given someone else your stuff, SOMEBODY ELSE HAS YOUR STUFF. It doesn't much matter what the contracts say - you're the frog carrying a scorpion at that point. A contract is a just a promise to sue. Further, even so far as they won't sell/access your stuff directly, the data about how you use the service is also valuable, and tech companies are notoriously shitty about that, too.

The nation’s future is at play here. It’s about getting people to think [of security] that way.


FFS, we are this far into the 21st fucking century, and the DNC has just now figuring this out ? We are ruled by morons.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:56 AM on September 7 [25 favorites]


NYT: The Fake Americans Russia Created to Influence the Election
The Russian information attack on the election did not stop with the hacking and leaking of Democratic emails or the fire hose of stories, true, false and in between, that battered Mrs. Clinton on Russian outlets like RT and Sputnik. Far less splashy, and far more difficult to trace, was Russia’s experimentation on Facebook and Twitter, the American companies that essentially invented the tools of social media and, in this case, did not stop them from being turned into engines of deception and propaganda.

An investigation by The New York Times, and new research from the cybersecurity firm FireEye, reveals some of the mechanisms by which suspected Russian operators used Twitter and Facebook to spread anti-Clinton messages and promote the hacked material they had leaked.
...
On Twitter, as on Facebook, Russian fingerprints are on hundreds or thousands of fake accounts that regularly posted anti-Clinton messages.
...
Given the powerful role of social media in political contests, understanding the Russian efforts will be crucial in preventing or blunting similar, or more sophisticated, attacks in the 2018 congressional races and the 2020 presidential election. Multiple government agencies have investigated the Russian attack, though it remains unclear whether any agency is focused specifically on tracking foreign intervention in social media. Both Facebook and Twitter say they are studying the 2016 experience and how to defend against such meddling.
posted by cjelli at 12:00 PM on September 7 [17 favorites]


Yeah, I don't buy it. From wikipedia (based on data in a 2010 paper):
ICE operates detention centers throughout the United States that detain illegal aliens who are apprehended and placed into removal proceedings. About 31,000 aliens are held in immigration detention on any given day,[27] in over 200 detention centers, jails, and prisons nationwide.[28]
They're going to capture and detain a quantity of people that represents 30% of their usual number of detainees, in one week? That is up there with 9% annual GDP growth as far as credible assertions.


In existing prisons. No one's heard of any camps being built, right? (Serious question given how ICE is behaving, and the last bit of doom and gloom hypothesizing from me in this thread)
posted by Slackermagee at 12:01 PM on September 7 [3 favorites]


You can store stuff in "the cloud" in an encrypted manner that minimizes loss risk and you can do it in a way that makes it less painful to walk away and go elsewhere. And it's not like doing it yourself is without risk; I'd argue that for a small organization like the DNC it is probably less risky to house your stuff with a reputable operation that has the staff and experience to run shit.

Clearly they tried it the other keep-it-in-house way and THAT didn't work out all that securely.

I'd also give a person of this professional pedigree a little credit for making the least-awful choice (and let's face it, that's what security is; if you want a computer that is 100% impossible to penetrate then pull out the power cord) and also for maybe not giving away a perfectly accurate description of the entire operation to a media outlet.
posted by phearlez at 12:03 PM on September 7 [38 favorites]


And it's not like doing it yourself is without risk; I'd argue that for a small organization like the DNC it is probably less risky to house your stuff with a reputable operation that has the staff and experience to run shit.

Especially when a major news story of the last year or two was a figurehead of your org allegedly not doing a good job of running email services*, it might be time to bring in the SMEs. Anyone spending money on "the cloud" must understand that they're spending money on "managed server rentals", but hey, someone's going to be managing your server either way.


*[NOT A RELITIGATINGISTER]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:11 PM on September 7 [5 favorites]


@Marshall_Cohen: CNN EXCLUSIVE: Mueller's team reached out to WH about interviewing staffers involved in crafting misleading Trump Tower meeting statement.

Mueller sure seems to be hitting on the "misleading" (it was actually just plain false) statement angle hard. My question is whether that's the focus of the investigation (as in, he thinks the false statement constituted a crime) or whether he's using having caught them in a lie as leverage to investigate something else.

In other news, Politico's Josh Dawsey reports that Upbeat Trump raves to Schumer, Pelosi about news coverage of their deal: Trump called them up this morning to gloat about his news coverage:
Trump specifically mentioned TV segments praising the deal and indicated he'd been watching in a call with Schumer, two people said. And he was jovial in a call with Pelosi and agreed to send a tweet she asked for about the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, these people said, while also mentioning the attention the deal had gotten. He indicated to both leaders he would be willing to work together again.

"He seemed super upbeat," one person familiar with the calls said.

Another person familiar with the calls said Trump told Pelosi her coverage was even better than his. “The press has been incredible,” Trump said.

Pelosi herself bragged that she had gotten results after asking him to tweet reassurances that Dreamers shouldn't worry about being deported over the next six months while lawmakers try to secure a DACA fix.

“I was telling my colleagues, ‘This is what I asked the president to do,' and boom boom boom, the tweet appeared," she said at a news conference Thursday.
Pelosi is dictating his tweets now? This is incredibly surreal. Trump is also reportedly having dinner with Paul Ryan tonight, which I guess is just the polite thing to do after stabbing him repeatedly in the chest and hanging his carcass out for Lou Dobbs to feast on.
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on September 7 [71 favorites]


They're going to capture and detain a quantity of people that represents 30% of their usual number of detainees, in one week?

8,400 is also an oddly specific number (and coincidentally the previous max number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan).

If it wasn't that the source seems credible...

I'd really hope, if there is any truth to it, that it's not related to: Trump order could give immigration agents a foothold in US schools
posted by Buntix at 12:14 PM on September 7


I got Tom Perez to stand up in front of the all-staff meeting and be like, “If you’re going to talk to me, Tom Perez, you’re using [the encrypted-messaging app] Signal.
Thank Christ. I'm glad that people are finally learning the correct message from tangling with Assange--you don't have to pay his "secrecy tax" if you just use encryption.
posted by xyzzy at 12:14 PM on September 7 [4 favorites]


Somebody on Twitter said that the Dems might be able to get Trump pushing single-payer by giving him a gold-framed "President of the Month" portrait and that's....mostly absurd? But also a little not?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:14 PM on September 7 [19 favorites]


But also a little not?
This has actually been "a thing" going around for awhile. Friends of Trump are insisting that if Dems just hand him a couple of "wins" and do a little boot licking he'll quietly resign.

It's not worth the risk.
posted by xyzzy at 12:16 PM on September 7 [1 favorite]


I don't mean it in the sense that a "more realistic" version of that strategy would be a valid course of action. I mean that it is not wholly unbelievable that the parodical scenario outlined in that post could literally come to pass because the White House operates on dream logic now.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:18 PM on September 7 [7 favorites]


I'd really hope, if there is any truth to it, that it's not related to: Trump order could give immigration agents a foothold in US schools

It seems certain that, assuming this isn't just an effort to whip up fear and paranoia (which I think is very possible), that this is about not detaining people but rather some form of documenting/tracking.

This has actually been "a thing" going around for awhile. Friends of Trump are insisting that if Dems just hand him a couple of "wins" and do a little boot licking he'll quietly resign.

It's not worth the risk.


If all the "wins" are things that were unpreventable or actually good for Dems (and permanently shitcanning the debt ceiling is unquestionably good for Dems) then I might actually disagree. But I also don't think this idea is real likely to work in execution or in result.
posted by phearlez at 12:20 PM on September 7 [3 favorites]


Not worth the risk but at least it's a nice reminder of how miserable he is.
posted by LarsC at 12:20 PM on September 7 [1 favorite]


Dems might be able to get Trump pushing single-payer by giving him a gold-framed "President of the Month" portrait and that's....mostly absurd?

I don't think Trump has any baked in principles about health care or even any interest in the debate, so he's unpredictable. I could 100% see Trump getting on board with "Medicare for All," if the Democrats told him that even President Obama couldn't get this through and had to settle for Obamacare. As long as his headlines are good, FoxNews still praises him, and he can undo part of Obama's legacy, he could sign off anything. (Obviously, Fox would have a flock of birds if they thought that Medicare for All would pass.)
posted by gladly at 12:25 PM on September 7 [1 favorite]


@hannahdreier: "Getting tips that ICE is gearing up for a major raid called "Operation Mega" that would net 8,400 immigrants nationwide from Sept. 17 - 22"


"Operation MAGA", surely.
posted by darkstar at 12:26 PM on September 7 [8 favorites]


assuming this isn't just an effort to whip up fear and paranoia (which I think it very possible)

That it's supposedly called 'Operation MEGA' does make it seem likely that it's something disseminated by some dark alt-right rumour mill.
posted by Buntix at 12:27 PM on September 7


.... I just realized that Shumer and Pelosi just played congressional "good cop" to the Republican's bad cop, and now are getting all the goods (at least for now).

It also helps that the things the Democrats are promoting are liked by the general public - not crashing the economy, sending relief funds to Texas, helping people survive illnesses, etc, so it's not like the Freedom Caucus is going to drum up people in the streets to protest because the debt ceiling debate was pushed off 3 months.

It kind of all goes back to how I feel about opposition to 45 vs the opposition to Obama. The Republican's opposition to Obama was because of racism. They may of couched it as policy decisions, but withholding a SCOTUS nominee without even a vote is more than just policy differences. The public's and Democrats opposition to 45 may be colored by BEC, but it is firmly rooted in the evil policy positions, anti-ACA, anti-DACA, Muslim ban, DeVos, Pruitt, Tillerson, provoking North Korea, etc etc etc etc *sob*

So I don't feel too bad if the Democratic leadership can maneuver the policy decisions that will help the country. Not defaulting on our debt will help the country, sending money to Harvey (and Irma) victims will help the country, signing the DREAM act (or equivalent) will help the country. As long as they're not giving up concessions to keep chugging along with incremental help for Americans, we can keep up the pressure until impeachment.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:30 PM on September 7 [27 favorites]


Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

Hey, I'll take the fact that they seem to have pivoted to "the Dreamers should be protected". If they're going to submit so thoroughly to the Dilettante-in-Chief, use it against 'em.
posted by Etrigan at 12:31 PM on September 7 [1 favorite]


The public's and Democrats opposition to 45 may be colored by BEC...

What means this?
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:33 PM on September 7 [1 favorite]




Fox anchor: "One could very easily argue ... that this was President Trump protecting the Dreamers"

One could also very easily argue that Stonewall Jackson was an Abolitionist, too, and some (inconceivably) do. But that don't make it right.
posted by darkstar at 12:39 PM on September 7 [3 favorites]


For those who weren't able to find time for Mike's links, all this concern the Trumps allegedly felt about Russia adoptions is really about protecting Russian oligarchs -- particularly those tied to Putin -- and their money. Because Russia banned adoptions of Russian children as direct retailiation for the Magnitsky Act.

Who is Magnitsky, you ask? From Miko's links:

Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian lawyer and auditor who in 2008 untangled a dense web of tax fraud and graft involving 23 companies and a total of $230 million linked to the Kremlin and individuals close to the government. Magnitsky was the target of investigations, arrested by authorities and kept in jail without charges. He was beaten and later died under mysterious circumstances in jail just days before his possible release.

And the Magnitsky Act?:

The Magnitsky Act was signed by President Barack Obama in December 2012 as a retaliation against the human rights abuses suffered by Magnitsky. The law at first blocked 18 Russian government officials and businessmen from entering the United States, froze any assets held by U.S. banks and banned their future use of U.S. banking systems. The act was expanded in 2016, and now sanctions apply to 44 suspected human rights abusers worldwide.

Talk about Russian adoptions is code for talking about how to get back access to their assets for corrupt Russians/Putin allies. The quid pro quos are endless in the Trump/Russia story line.
posted by bearwife at 12:40 PM on September 7 [26 favorites]


I thought they banned adoptions after being called out on the fact that they were sending kids over without disclosing their disabilities.
posted by Melismata at 12:43 PM on September 7 [2 favorites]


And if the Russians are so concerned about the lack of US-Russia adoptions, they can...just petition Putin to reverse the rule. It only exists for retaliation purposes!
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:44 PM on September 7 [2 favorites]


Nope. It was about the Magnitsky Act. And getting Russian adoptions going again is about repealing the Act.
posted by bearwife at 12:44 PM on September 7 [17 favorites]


I thought the Republicans wanted fewer foreigners in the US. Why do they want all these Russian babies all of a sudden?
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:46 PM on September 7 [4 favorites]


I apparently have a very different media diet than many of you. I'd listened to multiple hours of people talking about the Magnitsky Act within a week of Junior's initial description of that meeting.
posted by diogenes at 12:47 PM on September 7 [42 favorites]


Well, according to this article and others, it was the Torry Ann Hansen incident (she put her adopted son, who terrorized the family, on a plane back to Russia) that caused them to ban adoptions. But I only know what I read, oh well.
posted by Melismata at 12:50 PM on September 7


I learned most of what I know on the subject of Magnitsky & adoptions via Bill Browder's testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which I found in a previous MeFi politics thread and which is probably worth linking again.
posted by galaxy rise at 12:53 PM on September 7 [37 favorites]


Well, according to this article and others, it was the Torry Ann Hansen incident (she put her adopted son, who terrorized the family, on a plane back to Russia) that caused them to ban adoptions. But I only know what I read, oh well.

That may well have been what they looked at to say "Oh, I know! We can ban adoptions and not have to say it's about Maginstky!" but it's totally about Maginstky.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:54 PM on September 7 [12 favorites]


From that NYT article:
Speaking to NBC News, [Putin] rejected the idea that evidence pointed to Russia — while showing a striking familiarity with how cyberattackers might cover their tracks.

“IP addresses can be simply made up,” Mr. Putin said, referring to Internet protocol addresses, which can identify particular computers. “There are such IT specialists in the world today, and they can arrange anything and then blame it on whomever. This is no proof.”
I mean, maybe things have changed since I studied networking a couple of decades ago, but I don't really think that's the way things work. IP addresses can be forged in a lot of DDoS attacks because they use UDP, a protocol that doesn't require two-way communication. Accessing a website like Facebook is done over TCP, which requires a sequence of back-and-forth communication that really makes forgery of originating IP address quite difficult.

Outside of the use of VPNs (which isn't really 'making up' an IP address as much as it's 'using a different IP address that you still have access to'), remotely controlling a botted machine, and weird things like asymmetrical routing (an old spammer trick - connect to a dialup, send a bunch of mail from your hosted server farm 'forging' your dialup IP as the originating IP so that response traffic can still come back to you), forging IP addresses in web-based communication is seriously difficult.
posted by hanov3r at 1:03 PM on September 7 [17 favorites]


zachlipton Pelosi is dictating his tweets now? This is incredibly surreal. Trump is also reportedly having dinner with Paul Ryan tonight, which I guess is just the polite thing to do after stabbing him repeatedly in the chest and hanging his carcass out for Lou Dobbs to feast on.

Or it means Ryan has realized that Trump basically does whatever the last person who spoke to him asked him to, and tonight's tweets will be dictated by Ryan and undo all of what Schumer and Pelosi did.
posted by sotonohito at 1:06 PM on September 7 [3 favorites]


Junior's testimony seems to have gone well.

@desiderioDC (Daily Beast)
👀 After Don Jr. testimony to Senate Judiciary Cmte, Sen. Chris Coons' office sends out statute on giving false statements to Congress [statement]
posted by chris24 at 1:06 PM on September 7 [55 favorites]


The Magnitsky thing leads me to believe that, in the end, Mueller is as much a threat to Putin as is he is to Trump. If Putin can't secure the cash of his supporting (or coerced) oligarchs, or launder it in the US anymore, he'll lose that base. Trump can't hold off Mueller, but I'd be a bit concerned if Putin tried to.
posted by klarck at 1:07 PM on September 7 [11 favorites]


the Torry Ann Hansen incident (she put her adopted son, who terrorized the family, on a plane back to Russia)

This framing is offensive.
posted by phearlez at 1:09 PM on September 7 [5 favorites]


Regarding DACA renewals, cjelli wrote:
Yes, if you would need to renew in that six-month window you need to do it, now, within one month (by October 5th); there's a fairly hefty processing fee, too, so if people were saving up with a mind to have that money ready in a few months -- well.

Does anyone of any organizations that provide assistance with DACA application/renewal fees? All I've been able to find are loan programs or lending circles.
posted by amarynth at 1:12 PM on September 7 [1 favorite]


WP: Gingrich or Santorum as speaker? House conservatives plot mischief for the fall

If we actually got a non House member as Speaker, I give up.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:12 PM on September 7 [3 favorites]


"... if Dems just hand him a couple of "wins" and do a little boot licking he'll quietly resign."

Except that he doesn't do ANYTHING "quietly."
posted by jgirl at 1:13 PM on September 7 [1 favorite]


Well, according to this article and others, it was the Torry Ann Hansen incident (she put her adopted son, who terrorized the family, on a plane back to Russia) that caused them to ban adoptions.

There were other unfortunate incidents that were also used as justification, but it was always about the Magnitsky act:
In 2011, the year before the Magnitsky Act was passed, about 1,000 Russian children were adopted by American families, more than from any other foreign country. Many more adoptions were still pending, some for American parents who had already met the children they expected to take home. An adoption freeze would be a grievous loss for those families.

The Russian government, sensing that those parents would be a vocal pressure group, proposed a law known as the “anti-Magnitsky law,” which would halt all adoptions of Russian children by Americans — including those that were already in process. The Kremlin cited the case of Dima Yakovlev, a Russian toddler who died after being adopted by American parents, as a pretext for the rule.

But the government also made clear that the new law would be retaliation for the Magnitsky Act.
This article from Julia Ioffe points out the absolute cruelty of doing this:
At the time the adoption ban was passed, the Russian Federation had more orphaned and abandoned children than it did after the end of World War II, which claimed the lives of 27 million Soviets. Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev bemoaned the 95 Russian orphans whose American adoptions fell through just as the law was signed in 2012, 95 Russian orphans whom Russians didn’t want to adopt. There was a massive outcry in Russia and thousands protested in Moscow against a bill that made no sense: If the Kremlin is so angry about the Magnitsky Act, why was it punishing … Ru