The Second Haitian Revolution?
March 7, 2024 5:32 AM Subscribe
The nation of Haiti has been rocked by far more than its fair share of disasters in recent decades, from major hurricanes to a devastating 2010 earthquake (which killed upwards of 200,000) to the lingering effects of the COVID pandemic. The humanitarian situation has been worsened by escalating political instability, with the "legal banditry" of President Martelly followed by the 2021 assassination of President Moïse amidst a wave of mass protests and criminal violence. The ongoing turmoil reached a fever pitch this week as gang leader Jimmy "Barbecue" Chérizier led an audacious jailbreak of the country's prisons, freeing thousands of convicts that have joined forces in a united front that controls most of Port-au-Prince and credibly threatens to overthrow the government. Acting president Ariel Henry (himself a prime suspect in Moïse's murder) remains stranded outside the country, having secured a deployment of Kenyan police to bolster a multinational force. Most Haitian citizens, however, oppose foreign intervention -- understandable after the last UN mission triggered a major cholera epidemic. The Biden administration is allegedly pressuring the embattled Henry to resign (an improvement over the last time the US was involved in Haitian politics). For their part, a coalition of Haitian civil society offers a possible solution in the Montana Accord, a multi-stage plan to restore electoral democracy.
Select Haiti posts previously on MeFi:
Politics:
Haiti's President Assassinated
2019 Haitian protests
U.N. Admits Role in Cholera Epidemic
The Dominican Republic deporting migrant workers
Haiti's fight for gay rights
Dispatch from Haiti: Quiet Before The Storm
Michel Martelly elected president
"Baby Doc" Duvalier returns (and later dies)
Wyclef Jean's run for president (and questions about his charity)
How to Write About Haiti
Disasters:
A 7.0 magnitude earthquake centered near Port-au-Prince, Haiti has caused major devastation
A devastatingly personal account of the Haiti earthquake and its victims
Disaster-profiteering in Haiti
How the Red Cross Raised '$488 million' for Haiti and Built Six Homes
"A profit-driven recovery plan, devised and carried out by outsiders, can not reconstruct my country"
Scholar of vodou on the tragedy in Haiti
Ending Haiti's cholera epidemic
History:
Haiti’s Declaration of Independence
"The indelible toll" of the first Haitian slave revolt
France asked to repay Haiti billions in reparations
Jared Diamond on the unique cultural and geological challenges Haiti has faced since its colonial days
Select Haiti posts previously on MeFi:
Politics:
Haiti's President Assassinated
2019 Haitian protests
U.N. Admits Role in Cholera Epidemic
The Dominican Republic deporting migrant workers
Haiti's fight for gay rights
Dispatch from Haiti: Quiet Before The Storm
Michel Martelly elected president
"Baby Doc" Duvalier returns (and later dies)
Wyclef Jean's run for president (and questions about his charity)
How to Write About Haiti
Disasters:
A 7.0 magnitude earthquake centered near Port-au-Prince, Haiti has caused major devastation
A devastatingly personal account of the Haiti earthquake and its victims
Disaster-profiteering in Haiti
How the Red Cross Raised '$488 million' for Haiti and Built Six Homes
"A profit-driven recovery plan, devised and carried out by outsiders, can not reconstruct my country"
Scholar of vodou on the tragedy in Haiti
Ending Haiti's cholera epidemic
History:
Haiti’s Declaration of Independence
"The indelible toll" of the first Haitian slave revolt
France asked to repay Haiti billions in reparations
Jared Diamond on the unique cultural and geological challenges Haiti has faced since its colonial days
I've always been interested in the various nicknames that minor warlords give themselves or are given, like General Rambo and General Bin Laden in Liberia, or gang leader Jimmy "Barbecue" Chérizier in the links above.
There was a recent article (by Jon Lee Anderson, so it is well worth reading) that included an extended interview with Mr Barbecue, where he claimed that he "acquired his nickname as a child, when his mother sold chicken on the street, though a persistent rumor maintains that the name derives from his treatment of enemies." Yep, totally convincing.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:54 AM on March 7 [6 favorites]
There was a recent article (by Jon Lee Anderson, so it is well worth reading) that included an extended interview with Mr Barbecue, where he claimed that he "acquired his nickname as a child, when his mother sold chicken on the street, though a persistent rumor maintains that the name derives from his treatment of enemies." Yep, totally convincing.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:54 AM on March 7 [6 favorites]
Thanks for all these links. I almost got to go to Port-au-Prince, Haiti on a medical mission in February 2020, which we had to cancel because the police and military were shooting at each other along the route from our hotel to the hospital. We have still been able to get medical supplies to our contacts there, at least.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:38 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
posted by joannemerriam at 7:38 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
Superb post, Rhaomi.
posted by doctornemo at 8:41 AM on March 7 [16 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 8:41 AM on March 7 [16 favorites]
I haven't looked hard into the situation in Haiti; what little information I've received creates an impression that this is a country with crushing poverty, loss of arable land and rampant deforestation, few other resources, and a succession of recent natural and human-caused calamities. The contrast with the Dominican Republic (which we've visited) is stark.
So, it looks bad. A revolution doesn't seem to offer much change, does it, other than the faint hope that they would spend less time fighting with each other.
Can anyone offer me some hope here? What would make Haiti a viable country?
posted by Artful Codger at 9:24 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
So, it looks bad. A revolution doesn't seem to offer much change, does it, other than the faint hope that they would spend less time fighting with each other.
Can anyone offer me some hope here? What would make Haiti a viable country?
posted by Artful Codger at 9:24 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
I'm far from expert on Haiti but I think they have been (and still are?) under a massive debt burden to France that has impoverished them for generations. its certainly not their only problem, but I think its a fundamental one.
posted by supermedusa at 9:40 AM on March 7 [5 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 9:40 AM on March 7 [5 favorites]
The Haitian debt to France ended in 1947. But 122 years of debt payments set Haiti back enormously. It's part of why Haiti went from being one of the richest places in the New World to the absolute poorest. (As did the end of slave labor and declining sugar and cotton markets.) There are regular calls for France to now pay reparations.
posted by Nelson at 9:49 AM on March 7 [22 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 9:49 AM on March 7 [22 favorites]
I would like to read more about the "gangs" that are running Haiti now, from a Haitian perspective. The situation there is unusual and awful but everything I read is through the lens of Americans wringing their hands about polite political processes that simply no longer obtain in Haiti. The "gangs" have been running most of Haiti for months now. What is daily life like? Are any of these groups capable of running a country?
Yesterday's NYTimes article is an example of the frustrating US-centric perspective. "Mr. Chérizier and other gang leaders have gone on a rampage around Port-au-Prince over the past week ... security experts warn that any alliances between the gangs tend to be fluid and subject to change.". This paints a picture of a completely lawless, awful situation. Is that accurate?
Two of the links here (ABC, PBS) are a little less dire. You get the hint these gangs are organized and have an agenda beyond just "rampage". But I feel like I don't understand what's actually happening in Haiti.
I'm not trying to sugarcoat the violence in Haiti, btw. This quote from Chérzier (Barbecue) in 2019 is chilling
Yesterday's NYTimes article is an example of the frustrating US-centric perspective. "Mr. Chérizier and other gang leaders have gone on a rampage around Port-au-Prince over the past week ... security experts warn that any alliances between the gangs tend to be fluid and subject to change.". This paints a picture of a completely lawless, awful situation. Is that accurate?
Two of the links here (ABC, PBS) are a little less dire. You get the hint these gangs are organized and have an agenda beyond just "rampage". But I feel like I don't understand what's actually happening in Haiti.
I'm not trying to sugarcoat the violence in Haiti, btw. This quote from Chérzier (Barbecue) in 2019 is chilling
“I would never massacre people in the same social class as me,” he told the AP. “I live in the ghetto. I know what ghetto life is.”posted by Nelson at 9:53 AM on March 7 [12 favorites]
What would make Haiti a viable country?
It won't happen because of reasons (read: racism, colonialism, etc.) but in my opinion what Haiti needs is a fair level of reparations. It took a couple hundred years for the French (initially) and other countries (after independence) to screw up the place and extract all the human and ecological value possible, so it would seem fair for them to get support for the next couple hundred years if necessary.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:54 AM on March 7 [12 favorites]
It won't happen because of reasons (read: racism, colonialism, etc.) but in my opinion what Haiti needs is a fair level of reparations. It took a couple hundred years for the French (initially) and other countries (after independence) to screw up the place and extract all the human and ecological value possible, so it would seem fair for them to get support for the next couple hundred years if necessary.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:54 AM on March 7 [12 favorites]
In order to pay the debt, the Haitians over-farmed the living shit out of their country's soil, which is part of why the country is so notoriously denuded (the other reason is they have the leeward part of the island.)
Forest cover has been growing around the country since 1947, and that helps. And the Haitian community in the United States is helping with the money they send back (and also with the money they are NOT sending back, which keeps it out of reach of gangs and currupt politicians.)
I think what would help is allowing more emigration. Enough to get more of Haiti's territory to be fallowed.
posted by ocschwar at 9:57 AM on March 7 [6 favorites]
Forest cover has been growing around the country since 1947, and that helps. And the Haitian community in the United States is helping with the money they send back (and also with the money they are NOT sending back, which keeps it out of reach of gangs and currupt politicians.)
I think what would help is allowing more emigration. Enough to get more of Haiti's territory to be fallowed.
posted by ocschwar at 9:57 AM on March 7 [6 favorites]
Haiti has the population of Sweden (+ another million; Sweden has the same land area as California or ~15X that of Haiti); also roughly the population of Belgium in the same land area.
But it's the hilly 1/3 of Hispaniola so not so good a place to live if Sid Meiers' Civilization is any guide.
it would no doubt be more prosperous / have less grinding poverty with a population of 1M instead of 11M.
posted by torokunai at 10:26 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
But it's the hilly 1/3 of Hispaniola so not so good a place to live if Sid Meiers' Civilization is any guide.
it would no doubt be more prosperous / have less grinding poverty with a population of 1M instead of 11M.
posted by torokunai at 10:26 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
> it would no doubt be more prosperous / have less grinding poverty with a population of 1M instead of 11M.
What the actual Malthusian fuck
posted by Richard Saunders at 11:04 AM on March 7 [10 favorites]
What the actual Malthusian fuck
posted by Richard Saunders at 11:04 AM on March 7 [10 favorites]
I took that to be a comment on emigration, given the previous comment.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:10 AM on March 7
posted by joannemerriam at 11:10 AM on March 7
I thnk what would really help is if the French and Americans returned the money they stole from them, adjusted and with interest.
Just an idea.
posted by signal at 11:11 AM on March 7 [14 favorites]
Just an idea.
posted by signal at 11:11 AM on March 7 [14 favorites]
What the actual Malthusian fuck
The number of Haitians emigrating is greater than the number of able to secure immigration visas to other nations. It really is a simple matter of issuing more visas to empty the place out. That's not Malthusianism.
posted by ocschwar at 11:23 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
The number of Haitians emigrating is greater than the number of able to secure immigration visas to other nations. It really is a simple matter of issuing more visas to empty the place out. That's not Malthusianism.
posted by ocschwar at 11:23 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
>I took that to be a comment on emigration, given the previous comment.
no, it was more in the Malthusian vein ('I don't have any solution but I certainly admire the problem'). 11M people is pretty crowded in such a small space. Emigration can only be a temporary solution...
UAE is a lot smaller (and barren) with close to that population but it enjoys being an entrepôt to the Persian Gulf economies, plus being a general East-West communication/finance hub.
As far as density goes, Haiti's in the same class as India, Netherlands, Israel, Philippines, Belgium.
India and Philippines have seen some global capital investment thanks to having English-capable populations. Haiti hasn't been able to leverage its colonial subjugation like that, and isn't plugged into the European trade system like the other 3 nations in that list (2 of which have very problematic colonial histories themselves, maybe all 3 I guess depending on how you look at it).
Panama's got 4.4M people in 3X the land area, plus enjoys at least some of the same advantages / contingent development as UAE.
posted by torokunai at 12:06 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]
no, it was more in the Malthusian vein ('I don't have any solution but I certainly admire the problem'). 11M people is pretty crowded in such a small space. Emigration can only be a temporary solution...
UAE is a lot smaller (and barren) with close to that population but it enjoys being an entrepôt to the Persian Gulf economies, plus being a general East-West communication/finance hub.
As far as density goes, Haiti's in the same class as India, Netherlands, Israel, Philippines, Belgium.
India and Philippines have seen some global capital investment thanks to having English-capable populations. Haiti hasn't been able to leverage its colonial subjugation like that, and isn't plugged into the European trade system like the other 3 nations in that list (2 of which have very problematic colonial histories themselves, maybe all 3 I guess depending on how you look at it).
Panama's got 4.4M people in 3X the land area, plus enjoys at least some of the same advantages / contingent development as UAE.
posted by torokunai at 12:06 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]
Another previously from 2008: Haitians eating dirt cookies to survive
posted by Melismata at 1:14 PM on March 7
posted by Melismata at 1:14 PM on March 7
Haiti hasn't been able to leverage its colonial subjugation like that, and isn't plugged into the European trade system like the other 3 nations in that list (2 of which have very problematic colonial histories themselves, maybe all 3 I guess depending on how you look at it).
The punishment meted out to Haiti for daring to overthrow their slave masters and become free of their own accord is a global shame that needs to be corrected.
posted by hippybear at 1:29 PM on March 7 [13 favorites]
The punishment meted out to Haiti for daring to overthrow their slave masters and become free of their own accord is a global shame that needs to be corrected.
posted by hippybear at 1:29 PM on March 7 [13 favorites]
To the north, the Turks and Caicos islands are seeing an accelerated number of refugees land on their shores and set up shantytowns. It's estimated that 20% of Haitians on the islands are unhoused.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:31 PM on March 7
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:31 PM on March 7
Dip Flash: in my opinion what Haiti needs is a fair level of reparations.
The justice in such a move is obvious, but other than funding support to meet the population's basic needs, what could actually be done to 'fix' a country as broken as Haiti? Answering my own question a bit... education and rebuilding, and making it politically stable and 'safe' enough for tourism... is that it?
(It's 2024 - cynicism is consuming me...)
posted by Artful Codger at 1:38 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]
The justice in such a move is obvious, but other than funding support to meet the population's basic needs, what could actually be done to 'fix' a country as broken as Haiti? Answering my own question a bit... education and rebuilding, and making it politically stable and 'safe' enough for tourism... is that it?
(It's 2024 - cynicism is consuming me...)
posted by Artful Codger at 1:38 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]
I mean, maybe that's the beginning? If they get some money moving around they can maybe get some of their own manufacturing going on of some sort, and that would grow things more.
Does Hawai'i have real manufacturing? I know little about Hawai'i other than tourism, Kona coffee, and macadamia nuts, but maybe there's other things going on there that I'm being an ignorant mainlander and assuming wouldn't be there. But it's possible that Hawai'i is the goal to shoot for, whatever that is.
Also, what is going on in Dominican Republic? Are they simply political stable and safe enough for tourism, or is it something more?
posted by hippybear at 1:57 PM on March 7
Does Hawai'i have real manufacturing? I know little about Hawai'i other than tourism, Kona coffee, and macadamia nuts, but maybe there's other things going on there that I'm being an ignorant mainlander and assuming wouldn't be there. But it's possible that Hawai'i is the goal to shoot for, whatever that is.
Also, what is going on in Dominican Republic? Are they simply political stable and safe enough for tourism, or is it something more?
posted by hippybear at 1:57 PM on March 7
Good lord, that cholera piece is something else. As if Haitians hadn't suffered enough intentional cruelty, let's throw in some good old-fashioned neglience while we're at it. Shameful on the part of the UN.
posted by ZaphodB at 2:18 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
posted by ZaphodB at 2:18 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
A really important factor in helping Haiti recover is keeping US hands out of it.
posted by toodleydoodley at 2:19 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]
posted by toodleydoodley at 2:19 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]
> it's possible that Hawai'i is the goal to shoot for, whatever that is
Also an ignorant mainlander here, but Hawaii has a housing shortage, low wages, an economy dominated by tourism and all that involves, and is too expensive for Native Hawaiians to live in any more. It's another victim of colonialism and not a role model.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:17 PM on March 7 [7 favorites]
Also an ignorant mainlander here, but Hawaii has a housing shortage, low wages, an economy dominated by tourism and all that involves, and is too expensive for Native Hawaiians to live in any more. It's another victim of colonialism and not a role model.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:17 PM on March 7 [7 favorites]
Well, Puerto Rico isn't faring very well, I don't know how other island places are faring at the moment, given the pummeling by storms and economics and rising sea levels...
Still curious about D.R. As they're the other half of that piece of land, maybe there are lessons there?
posted by hippybear at 3:29 PM on March 7
Still curious about D.R. As they're the other half of that piece of land, maybe there are lessons there?
posted by hippybear at 3:29 PM on March 7
The DR gets the steadier rains, onto flatter terrain, and they weren't compelled by the risk of war into overplowing their land for sugar.
posted by ocschwar at 3:43 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
posted by ocschwar at 3:43 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
understandable after the last UN mission triggered a major cholera epidemic.
There was also the rampant child sexual abuse by UN peacekeepers, which might indeed turn some people off.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:47 PM on March 7 [5 favorites]
There was also the rampant child sexual abuse by UN peacekeepers, which might indeed turn some people off.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:47 PM on March 7 [5 favorites]
If you want some history, Mike Duncan’s Revolutions podcast did a series on Haiti and its revolution which is eye-opening. As a friend says, the best part of the podcast is watching Duncan get radicalized by discussing people fighting back against misery.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:20 PM on March 7 [8 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:20 PM on March 7 [8 favorites]
The punishment meted out to Haiti for daring to overthrow their slave masters
It was actually Haiti who initially pursued the deal - they sent envoys to France in 1824 and offered to pay an indemnity to France in return for diplomatic recognition of both halves of the island - Haiti (a French colony) being the Western half, and Santo Domingo (a Spanish colony, today the Dominican Republic) being the Eastern half.
Somewhat tragically, Santo Domingo achieved their independence from Spain in 1821, only to be attacked and annexed by Haiti two months later. The timing of Haiti's envoy isn't a coincidence either, as this would provide diplomatic recognition of the territory they just conquered.
In any case, the French refused the 1824 deal since they had no authority to recognize Haiti's ownership of Santo Domingo, as they recognized it belonged to Spain. Haiti would need to negotiate separately with the Spanish.
In the end, in 1825, Haiti accepted the indemnity deal anyway with the French for recognition of only the Western half of the island.
The reason Haiti was so interested in pursuing the deal was that they wanted to rejoin the international economy. France (being the loser in the war) wasn't interested in trading with Haiti, and neither were the other European economies. Haiti really wanted someone to sell their lucrative plantation products to.
The negotiated deal had to be reasonable if only because it was financed by French bondholders - who would - and did - bear the financial risk if Haiti failed to repay the debt.
The indemnity payment of 150 mil francs was considered reasonable because it was equal to Haiti's annual plantation exports in 1789, before the revolts began to damage their economic output. General asset valuation principles would peg the plantation asset's potential value at 1.5 billion. At the time the plantations were worthless, since they had no access to any export markets. Paying just 10% to unlock their full value seemed like a great deal to both Haiti and the French bondholders.
To pay the indemnity Haiti would borrow money from the French, via the banks, which issued the bonds at a 20% face discount (800 francs per 1000 franc issue) and 7.5% interest to French investors. French investors were told this was a safe investment, as Haiti would be able to resume plantation exports.
The bonds face value fell to 200 francs by 1832, with French bondholders losing 75% of their investment, as it became clear that Haiti were incapable of restoring the plantations. In addition Haiti had trouble maintaining control over Santo Domingo, and ended up fighting a crippling 11 year war against them which they eventually lost. With the country in chaos with constant revolts, with sugar exports halted entirely from 1840s onwards, and devoting more and more resources into desperate military action instead of investing it in the economy, it's not a surprise they fell behind in debt repayments.
posted by xdvesper at 4:35 PM on March 7 [8 favorites]
It was actually Haiti who initially pursued the deal - they sent envoys to France in 1824 and offered to pay an indemnity to France in return for diplomatic recognition of both halves of the island - Haiti (a French colony) being the Western half, and Santo Domingo (a Spanish colony, today the Dominican Republic) being the Eastern half.
Somewhat tragically, Santo Domingo achieved their independence from Spain in 1821, only to be attacked and annexed by Haiti two months later. The timing of Haiti's envoy isn't a coincidence either, as this would provide diplomatic recognition of the territory they just conquered.
In any case, the French refused the 1824 deal since they had no authority to recognize Haiti's ownership of Santo Domingo, as they recognized it belonged to Spain. Haiti would need to negotiate separately with the Spanish.
In the end, in 1825, Haiti accepted the indemnity deal anyway with the French for recognition of only the Western half of the island.
The reason Haiti was so interested in pursuing the deal was that they wanted to rejoin the international economy. France (being the loser in the war) wasn't interested in trading with Haiti, and neither were the other European economies. Haiti really wanted someone to sell their lucrative plantation products to.
The negotiated deal had to be reasonable if only because it was financed by French bondholders - who would - and did - bear the financial risk if Haiti failed to repay the debt.
The indemnity payment of 150 mil francs was considered reasonable because it was equal to Haiti's annual plantation exports in 1789, before the revolts began to damage their economic output. General asset valuation principles would peg the plantation asset's potential value at 1.5 billion. At the time the plantations were worthless, since they had no access to any export markets. Paying just 10% to unlock their full value seemed like a great deal to both Haiti and the French bondholders.
To pay the indemnity Haiti would borrow money from the French, via the banks, which issued the bonds at a 20% face discount (800 francs per 1000 franc issue) and 7.5% interest to French investors. French investors were told this was a safe investment, as Haiti would be able to resume plantation exports.
The bonds face value fell to 200 francs by 1832, with French bondholders losing 75% of their investment, as it became clear that Haiti were incapable of restoring the plantations. In addition Haiti had trouble maintaining control over Santo Domingo, and ended up fighting a crippling 11 year war against them which they eventually lost. With the country in chaos with constant revolts, with sugar exports halted entirely from 1840s onwards, and devoting more and more resources into desperate military action instead of investing it in the economy, it's not a surprise they fell behind in debt repayments.
posted by xdvesper at 4:35 PM on March 7 [8 favorites]
The Haitian debt to France ended in 1947.
The Haitian colonial debt to France was fully repaid in 1947. The long-term impact of 122 years of odious double debt cannot be overstated, but it's also worth noting that the manipulation of Haiti through debt didn't end there.
Enter development loans. The elder Duvalier managed to get Haiti into almost a billion dollars worth of debt. His son was pressured out of office by the US. In 1987 Haiti tried to hold elections but the military massacred voters. Following that, 1988 it held elections with almost no participation, and experienced not one but two coups. In 1990 Aristide was elected, and in 1991 he was overthrown in a military coup. The country was then subjected to OAS sanctions. The US helped return Aristide to power in 1994. While Aristide had previously been opposed to austerity measures, after he was reinstated he began to work with the US, the IMF, the World Bank, and the Inter-American Development Bank to implement them.
In 2004, Aristide called for reparations on the colonial debt and was deposed in a coup. The US claims that it helped him escape, while Aristide described being kidnapped onto a US plane and flown to Bangui, of all places.
Haiti had about $1.2bn in debt cancelled in 2009 but was still on the hook for $900m. Then 2010 came, and the earthquake and cholera epidemic struck, and the international community responded by providing more aid in the form of debt. The US was servicing some of this debt, particularly to the Inter-American Development Bank, but as always, US money comes with strings attached.
(It's worth noting that aid that isn't based on loans isn't always much better. When the US offered Haiti $1.6 billion in humanitarian aid after the 2010 earthquake, none of that money actually went to fund Haitian institutions. Instead, more than a third of it went directly to the US military, and $200m went to fund an industrial park that produced goods for US manufacturers in an area untouched by the earthquake.)
Fast forward to 2021. President Jovenel Moïse is assassinated in July. By the end of the 2021, according to the IMF, "Haiti’s stock of public sector debt totaled $5.0 billion (28.5 percent of GDP). External public debt accounted for 45.5 percent of total public debt (12.9 percent of GDP), of which 80.8 percent was debt arose from oil imports financed by Venezuela’s Petrocaribe program. The remainder was largely concessional debt from multilateral creditors, including from the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) and the IMF."
You will also be shocked to hear that a number of key individuals involved in Haiti's coups received training in or support from the US.
Long story short, in addition to reparations, I think the short answer to "What would make Haiti a viable country?" is that the US and France would have to stop latching onto it like imperial leaches, stop overthrowing its government, and leave it the fuck alone.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:42 PM on March 7 [14 favorites]
The Haitian colonial debt to France was fully repaid in 1947. The long-term impact of 122 years of odious double debt cannot be overstated, but it's also worth noting that the manipulation of Haiti through debt didn't end there.
Enter development loans. The elder Duvalier managed to get Haiti into almost a billion dollars worth of debt. His son was pressured out of office by the US. In 1987 Haiti tried to hold elections but the military massacred voters. Following that, 1988 it held elections with almost no participation, and experienced not one but two coups. In 1990 Aristide was elected, and in 1991 he was overthrown in a military coup. The country was then subjected to OAS sanctions. The US helped return Aristide to power in 1994. While Aristide had previously been opposed to austerity measures, after he was reinstated he began to work with the US, the IMF, the World Bank, and the Inter-American Development Bank to implement them.
In 2004, Aristide called for reparations on the colonial debt and was deposed in a coup. The US claims that it helped him escape, while Aristide described being kidnapped onto a US plane and flown to Bangui, of all places.
Haiti had about $1.2bn in debt cancelled in 2009 but was still on the hook for $900m. Then 2010 came, and the earthquake and cholera epidemic struck, and the international community responded by providing more aid in the form of debt. The US was servicing some of this debt, particularly to the Inter-American Development Bank, but as always, US money comes with strings attached.
(It's worth noting that aid that isn't based on loans isn't always much better. When the US offered Haiti $1.6 billion in humanitarian aid after the 2010 earthquake, none of that money actually went to fund Haitian institutions. Instead, more than a third of it went directly to the US military, and $200m went to fund an industrial park that produced goods for US manufacturers in an area untouched by the earthquake.)
Fast forward to 2021. President Jovenel Moïse is assassinated in July. By the end of the 2021, according to the IMF, "Haiti’s stock of public sector debt totaled $5.0 billion (28.5 percent of GDP). External public debt accounted for 45.5 percent of total public debt (12.9 percent of GDP), of which 80.8 percent was debt arose from oil imports financed by Venezuela’s Petrocaribe program. The remainder was largely concessional debt from multilateral creditors, including from the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) and the IMF."
You will also be shocked to hear that a number of key individuals involved in Haiti's coups received training in or support from the US.
Long story short, in addition to reparations, I think the short answer to "What would make Haiti a viable country?" is that the US and France would have to stop latching onto it like imperial leaches, stop overthrowing its government, and leave it the fuck alone.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:42 PM on March 7 [14 favorites]
The justice in such a move is obvious, but other than funding support to meet the population's basic needs, what could actually be done to 'fix' a country as broken as Haiti? Answering my own question a bit... education and rebuilding, and making it politically stable and 'safe' enough for tourism... is that it?
A key thing to remember is that if it took a long time to fuck a place up, it will also take a long time to repair it. There isn't a single "tah dah!" fix that can instantly reverse course and make up for the deep hole Haiti is starting from. It would take long term, consistent support for local institutions and society over at least decades, like what the EU's poor countries receive from the rich side of the EU or what (generalizing here) red states in the US receive from blue states.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:17 PM on March 7 [8 favorites]
A key thing to remember is that if it took a long time to fuck a place up, it will also take a long time to repair it. There isn't a single "tah dah!" fix that can instantly reverse course and make up for the deep hole Haiti is starting from. It would take long term, consistent support for local institutions and society over at least decades, like what the EU's poor countries receive from the rich side of the EU or what (generalizing here) red states in the US receive from blue states.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:17 PM on March 7 [8 favorites]
So, what organization does useful work in Haiti?
posted by theora55 at 10:04 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 10:04 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]
... and to provide the other view, besides the economic and financial incentives, is that Haiti was forced into the indemnity deal because maintaining a powerful military in anticipation of a French attack drained their economy which was crippled by trade sanctions. Though, it is debated if France was bluffing, considering how costly their previous military defeat was.
Anyway, I'm generally pessimistic, we can't seem to meaningfully improve the lot of the indigenous people in our own country with our entire infrastructure at our disposal, despite spending billions on development programs, never mind people in Haiti...
posted by xdvesper at 3:50 AM on March 8
Anyway, I'm generally pessimistic, we can't seem to meaningfully improve the lot of the indigenous people in our own country with our entire infrastructure at our disposal, despite spending billions on development programs, never mind people in Haiti...
posted by xdvesper at 3:50 AM on March 8
Let me throw in some optimism.
So, I live in Boston, and there is a large Haitian community here. While it's large, you wouldn't know it if you didn't listen for the amount of French spoken on the buses and trains. They do not make waves. They move in, they find the cheapest safe housing them can, they find any and all work, and they save money. The money saved is going to add up to a critical mass of physical capital that will at some point be imported into Haiti and bring living standards up and get Haiti out of this hole. And all the rest of the world has to do is just stop standing in the way of these people.
posted by ocschwar at 9:37 AM on March 8 [2 favorites]
So, I live in Boston, and there is a large Haitian community here. While it's large, you wouldn't know it if you didn't listen for the amount of French spoken on the buses and trains. They do not make waves. They move in, they find the cheapest safe housing them can, they find any and all work, and they save money. The money saved is going to add up to a critical mass of physical capital that will at some point be imported into Haiti and bring living standards up and get Haiti out of this hole. And all the rest of the world has to do is just stop standing in the way of these people.
posted by ocschwar at 9:37 AM on March 8 [2 favorites]
A few years back, there used to be a large Haitian immigrant community in Chile.
Most of them moved to other countries because (most) Chileans are super racist.
posted by signal at 2:26 PM on March 8
Most of them moved to other countries because (most) Chileans are super racist.
posted by signal at 2:26 PM on March 8
I've been dismayed at the comments here suggesting the only way to "fix Haiti" is to massively depopulate it. However reading about this did lead me to a table of countries by population density. I had no idea Haiti was so heavily populated. Haiti's #34 of 249 but many of the countries above it are tiny or wealthy. Haiti is at 423 people / km². Compare Netherlands or India about the same, South Korea and Rwanda around 520, or Bangladesh at 1165. The Dominican Republic has half the density (233).
Haiti's fertility rate in 2023 at 2.7 births / woman is a little higher than the world average. They've already made the transition that most places do when access to contraception choices becomes available. But that's still way more children per woman than India or Bangladesh. According to this graph fertility started dropping in the mid-80s.
I don't draw any conclusion from this but it has made me think of Haiti differently. I would have guessed it was much more sparsely populated than it is.
posted by Nelson at 3:41 PM on March 8
Haiti's fertility rate in 2023 at 2.7 births / woman is a little higher than the world average. They've already made the transition that most places do when access to contraception choices becomes available. But that's still way more children per woman than India or Bangladesh. According to this graph fertility started dropping in the mid-80s.
I don't draw any conclusion from this but it has made me think of Haiti differently. I would have guessed it was much more sparsely populated than it is.
posted by Nelson at 3:41 PM on March 8
NPR: Amid a dramatic standoff, Haiti extends its state of emergency for another 30 days. Not much news really but this remarkable quote from Daniel Foote, former US special envoy to Haiti who quit over the administration's support of Henry.
It's time to give Haitians a chance to fix Haiti, because I guarantee you they won't screw it up as bad as we had.posted by Nelson at 3:41 PM on March 8
re: population, Bangladesh (170m) and Egypt (109m) are pretty poor but of course are sitting in food-filled deltas.
Bangladesh population pyramid
Egypt population pyramid
Haiti population pyramid
confirming Haiti has stopped their geometric growth like Bangladesh, and unlike Egypt
posted by torokunai at 6:17 PM on March 8
Bangladesh population pyramid
Egypt population pyramid
Haiti population pyramid
confirming Haiti has stopped their geometric growth like Bangladesh, and unlike Egypt
posted by torokunai at 6:17 PM on March 8
The reason Haiti was so interested in pursuing the deal was that they wanted to rejoin the international economy. France (being the loser in the war) wasn't interested in trading with Haiti, and neither were the other European economies. Haiti really wanted someone to sell their lucrative plantation products to.
This is presented as if it was a counterargument to:
The punishment meted out to Haiti for daring to overthrow their slave masters
... but it seems like it's describing exactly what form that punishment took, and how France used economic coercion to force Haiti into this arrangement?
posted by Not A Thing at 6:24 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]
This is presented as if it was a counterargument to:
The punishment meted out to Haiti for daring to overthrow their slave masters
... but it seems like it's describing exactly what form that punishment took, and how France used economic coercion to force Haiti into this arrangement?
posted by Not A Thing at 6:24 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]
So, what organization does useful work in Haiti?
Partners in Health has been the go-to answer to that question for a few decades now.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:12 AM on March 9 [1 favorite]
Partners in Health has been the go-to answer to that question for a few decades now.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:12 AM on March 9 [1 favorite]
Haitians shot dead in street and there’s no one to take the corpses away
posted by Nelson at 2:15 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
Port-au-Prince reached a high of 92 degrees on Friday. The smell of decaying corpses, human rights activists say, has driven some people from their homes. Others have taken it upon themselves to move or burn the bodies. Because who else will? ...I asked upthread for Haitian perspectives, information on what was actually happening in Haiti. Here's one answer for me. This from the Washington Post, Haitian journalist Widlore Mérancourt. Recent stories of his include ‘Collective rapes’ surge as weapon in Haiti’s gang war and As gangs attack a critical port, ‘Haiti will go hungry soon’.
One morgue director said he has received 20 calls in the past week from residents asking him to pick up bodies. Four calls came in on Friday, Lyonel Milfort said. He has refused all of them.
With gangs barricading the streets, Milfort said, venturing out has been impossible. Other morgues have come under attack, he said, and he doesn’t want to risk the lives of his staff.
posted by Nelson at 2:15 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
Haiti’s leader to resign as gangs run rampant through country engulfed in crisis
The embattled prime minister of Haiti, Ariel Henry, has said he will resign after weeks of mounting chaos in the Caribbean nation, where gangs have been attacking government structures and social order is on the brink of collapse.As leader resigns, Haitian politicians rush to create a new government
Henry said in a video address late Monday that his government would leave power after the establishment of a transitional council, adding, “Haiti needs peace. Haiti needs stability.”
“My government will leave immediately after the inauguration of the council. We will be a caretaker government until they name a prime minister and a new cabinet,” Henry said.
Henry’s adviser Jean Junior Joseph told CNN that Henry would remain in his role until the formation of a new interim government.
Haitian political leaders are scrambling to meet a 24-hour deadline to establish a transitional council to lead the deteriorating country following the resignation of Prime Minister Ariel Henry.posted by Rhaomi at 11:52 AM on March 12
Facing intense pressure from the international community and U.S. officials, Henry announced late Monday that he would step down to make way for a transitional presidential council that will appoint a new interim prime minister and lead the country to new elections. His resignation followed a lengthy meeting in Jamaica among Caribbean Community (Caricom) leaders, Haitian politicians, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and other world leaders aimed at reaching an urgent agreement to bring political stability to a country consumed by its worst violence in decades.
The council will temporarily carry out the duties of the country’s president, a position that has been vacant since the still-unsolved 2021 assassination of President Jovenel Moïse. The new transitional council will be composed of seven voting members representing seven sectors of Haitian society, including Henry’s political party. It will also include two nonvoting members, from civil society and the interfaith community, according to a statement from the Caricom regional bloc.
Thanks, Dip Flash, I recommend Mountains Beyond Mountains, by Tracy Kidder, about Paul Farmer, wasn't sure what their status is.
posted by theora55 at 9:41 PM on March 14
posted by theora55 at 9:41 PM on March 14
Why Haiti is Dying & the DR is Booming came across my recommendations feed, and figured I'd see if MeFi had any recent conversations. We do, and recent!
Forest cover has been growing around the country since 1947
I'm really unsure what to make of that claim as neither the above YouTuber nor Global Forest Watch document progress over the past 20y.
A really important factor in helping Haiti recover is keeping US hands out of it.
It would be convenient if just walking away from the problem you caused was enough to fix it, but honestly, I'm a bit worried that the situation is severe enough that it won't rebound without US intervention. It's not like the Dominican Republic is an a position to extend their institutions and services, and France seems to have their hands full with Russia invading Ukraine, Houthi attacks in the Red Sea, and a coup epidemic in the former French colonies of west Africa.
posted by pwnguin at 4:33 PM on March 17
Forest cover has been growing around the country since 1947
I'm really unsure what to make of that claim as neither the above YouTuber nor Global Forest Watch document progress over the past 20y.
A really important factor in helping Haiti recover is keeping US hands out of it.
It would be convenient if just walking away from the problem you caused was enough to fix it, but honestly, I'm a bit worried that the situation is severe enough that it won't rebound without US intervention. It's not like the Dominican Republic is an a position to extend their institutions and services, and France seems to have their hands full with Russia invading Ukraine, Houthi attacks in the Red Sea, and a coup epidemic in the former French colonies of west Africa.
posted by pwnguin at 4:33 PM on March 17
More "what is life like in Haiti": Armed gangs attack Haiti’s wealthiest enclaves, leaving bodies on the streets. There are many news stories like this right now.
But this story is personal for me. Because I know someone whose cousins were killed in this particular outburst of violence in Pétion-Ville. They were driving their kids to school. (A statement in itself, that there's still a school to go to and still the idea you could drive your kids there.) A gang ran up and shot the two adults dead to steal their car. The kids managed to run away and "are ok as one can be".
I've been looking for Haiti stories because I've been trying to understand what's going on vis-a-vis the framing of this post about a "second Haitian revolution". What's happening right now lacks any of the political or noble senses the word "revolution" invokes in Americans or students of 18th and 19th century European history. Those revolutions also had lots of ugly violence, to be sure, but so far I've seen nothing emerge in reporting from Haiti other than the violence and chaos. I would dearly like to think some new better government emerges out of this awful period in Haiti but so far it all seems to be the worst kind of anarchy.
posted by Nelson at 7:36 AM on March 19 [2 favorites]
But this story is personal for me. Because I know someone whose cousins were killed in this particular outburst of violence in Pétion-Ville. They were driving their kids to school. (A statement in itself, that there's still a school to go to and still the idea you could drive your kids there.) A gang ran up and shot the two adults dead to steal their car. The kids managed to run away and "are ok as one can be".
I've been looking for Haiti stories because I've been trying to understand what's going on vis-a-vis the framing of this post about a "second Haitian revolution". What's happening right now lacks any of the political or noble senses the word "revolution" invokes in Americans or students of 18th and 19th century European history. Those revolutions also had lots of ugly violence, to be sure, but so far I've seen nothing emerge in reporting from Haiti other than the violence and chaos. I would dearly like to think some new better government emerges out of this awful period in Haiti but so far it all seems to be the worst kind of anarchy.
posted by Nelson at 7:36 AM on March 19 [2 favorites]
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Doubling down on the middle two history articles on reverse reparations.
posted by rubatan at 6:30 AM on March 7 [12 favorites]