MetaFilter

MeFi post: At least we know she knows where France is.

It's weird that Trump has quadrupled his 538 probability of winning (10% to 40%) in the last month. What gives?

> this is not the time for a protest vote

That depends on where you live. If you live in a non-swing state, there is no reason not to vote your conscience.

I know MetaFilter is strongly critical of Stein voters, but there is no other way for progressives to pull the... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by splitpeasoup at 9:23 AM on September 17, 2016

> There is a reason we're relitigating the Sanders issue...

Quoting somebody on reddit with a crackpot theory that Clinton's going to drop out does not convince me I'm delusional, mentally defective misogynist, racist bigot because I support idea that all US citizens should have access to health care, increasing the minimum wage and paid parental leave. I don't how you think it could, since I'm not the guy on reddit, and the... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by nangar at 9:24 AM on September 17, 2016

For most younger voters there isn't a landline to get a hold if them and seriously how often do you answer cell calls from out of state? It doesn't take many IRS and Microsoft tech support scam calls to stop answering out of state calls. If the person really wants to get a hold if me they leave a message. However pollsters don't leave messages.

When our arguments become: calm down, the polls are wrong! that's a sign of desperation. Polling is conducted... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by dis_integration at 9:03 AM on September 17, 2016

These general election demographic arguments fall pretty flat. If the most recent state-by-state polling holds, Trump only needs to flip one more state: either PA, MI or WI, from blue to red, to win. He could do that without a strong minority coalition. This really is a very close race at the moment.
posted to MetaFilter by dis_integration at 8:38 AM on September 17, 2016

Is there a precise percentage of her campaign effort that she's allowed to use to draw contrasts with her opponent? It would be political malpractice to not use Trump's negatives against him, and if your point is that she should have tried harder to run to the left to increase support in her base, I'd like to know exactly what your counterfactual is.

You are free to blame the "mass media" for this, but the bulk of this thread is Clinton... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by ennui.bz at 8:13 AM on September 17, 2016

The Gates Foundation is a private foundation. The Clinton Foundation is a public charity. They are two entirely different types of legal entities.

They are actually both 501(c) organizations, although it is correct that the CF is classified as a public charity and the GF as a private foundation. The biggest difference (aside from setting up a lucrative career in mapping out legal fine-print) seems to be that "private foundations" are subject... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by ennui.bz at 8:05 AM on September 17, 2016

you guys seem to like it, but maybe building a campaign around being not-Trump was a bad idea.

it's amazing how totally hermetically sealed in a bubble these election threads are. if your candidate loses it won't be her fault or your fault but the result of a soft conspiracy of nazis, leftists, and the mass media to elect a candidate who you deem illegitimate and may be an agent of Russia.

this election has shown that mild-mannered upper middle... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by ennui.bz at 7:51 AM on September 17, 2016

MeFi post: Both sides do it!

I think it's long past time we stopped pretending that certain points of view are reasonable and deserve reporting.

Who's "we"? at least some people in the state wanted to hear Michele Bachmann; after all, they elected her to Congress four times. This is their radio station, too. Also, are you referring to the Tea Party rebuttal to Obama's 2011 SOTU speech? Because I, for one, wanted to hear that in real time, and I... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by Miko at 9:42 PM on September 16, 2016

I think another problem with "he said/she said" reporting covering major candidates is that it's especially pernicious in the not-insignificant number of cases when both Republican and Democratic candidates are being dishonest.
posted to MetaFilter by layceepee at 10:33 AM on September 16, 2016

It also requires a shit ton of money. Comedy shows have a deep enough bench to sit a bunch of people in a room and have them scroll through endless hours of news appearances to find a gotcha! News organizations are typically much less well resourced than these entertainment shows. Which really reflects our cultural priorities and preferences, but that's another issue.

I disagree that this is the root of the issue. Journalists also don't point out... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by jaduncan at 8:09 AM on September 16, 2016

How panicked about Clinton's defeat do you have to be to find the Times's coverage to be not anti-Trump enough? There are days it seems that they struggle to find room on the political/election front page for any story that isn't anti-Trump.

If anything, the Times' effort to stay, even slightly, away from the Post's decision to simply become an annex to the Clinton press... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by MattD at 5:40 AM on September 16, 2016

The problem with the "speaking fees are influence peddling" hypothesis is that it's easily disproven, because people with no remaining influence still command very large speaking fees.

but my point was that it's not really something you can disprove or prove. especially since "influence" is not a strictly defined notion. it's not a matter of "true" or "false" but the context you put your facts in, how you... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by ennui.bz at 6:05 AM on September 16, 2016

Could people please stop saying this unless you have a factual and specific complaint about her? Because seriously as far as I can tell all the Hillary hate is all just marketing and spin. I have not heard one specific complaint that did not turn out to be a lie or overblown exaggeration about something that vast numbers of other politicians do as a matter of course without getting called "disgusting."

but that's the core of the issue: do we... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by ennui.bz at 5:04 AM on September 16, 2016

MeFi post: At least we know she knows where France is.

zachlipton:

Yes, the fate of my post was unfortunate, though I can't help smiling a touch at the series of events.

I like the idea of setting the bar lower for the first debate -- say at 5% -- though even that plan is not without its failings. You will always have someone complaining that the bar is too high even at a lower percentage. Johnson didn't get near this high last year and wouldn't have made a 5% cutoff, if I remember correctly.... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by mr_bovis at 9:53 PM on September 16, 2016

MeFi post: Honestly, it's kind of draining

Message from my mom: Did you know about this frog thing
posted to MetaFilter by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:23 PM on September 16, 2016

Maddow talking about Pepe


jesus
posted to MetaFilter by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:17 PM on September 16, 2016

Yeah, literally no one here is saying they don't like millennials

I mean I'm not going to do a 'greatest hits of condescension' playlist, and to clarify it's not just this thread or metafilter or one comment, it's happening everywhere, but I think it's a major turn-off, and speaking at least personally I'm voting for Clinton but I have a very tangible sense right now that this party and the people who identify in it no longer even want people like me... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 3:57 PM on September 16, 2016

I have not seen many millennials here saying they won't vote for Clinton

Haha there's probably a reason for that.
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 3:14 PM on September 16, 2016

And also, do you seriously not see a problem with an industry writing its own regulations? "They know the best way to regulate themselves" is practically a Republican talking point.
posted to MetaFilter by indubitable at 3:12 PM on September 16, 2016

anyone who is weighing internet comments like mine on one side of the scale and the plainly-stated policies, priorities, and attitudes of Donald J. Trump on the other can go vote for Harambe with my blessings.

I don't know man, learning that a huge number of Democrats outright despise you and your age cohort couldn't be a good thing. But everyone keep on being your awesome selves.
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 3:10 PM on September 16, 2016

I question whether the proper smoke that needs to be blown up their asses to prevent them from voting for some third-party clown even exists

this, on the other hand, is definitely endearing them to your side

(also funny that we're talking about these millenials as if many are not right here in the room, probably lurking with a mixture of horror and laughter)
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 3:02 PM on September 16, 2016

I know talking about actual policy is practically a derail at this point, but I'd like to point out a few things from the NYT article on Clinton's tax proposals linked upthread by melissasaurus:
Nearly all the increase would come from new taxes on the wealthiest Americans. For those with adjusted gross incomes of more than $5 million, she would impose a 4 percent surcharge on top of the normal tax system. For those with incomes above $1 million, she would install a 30 percent... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by indubitable at 3:00 PM on September 16, 2016

What a lot of us are telling you guys, repeatedly, is that many of those 18-25 year olds don't know what she is pledging to give them, and her giant campaign apparatus should probably push some messaging/phone calls/etc. that gets the word out about it more effectively. This is not demanding "emotional labor" of the person of Hillary Clinton herself, this is advising the literal thousands of people who work on her campaign and its messaging and PR strategy and the... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by cobra_high_tigers at 2:20 PM on September 16, 2016

Stop demanding "outreach" and "she should do more of that" already and start doing the work yourself. Stop demanding emotional labor from Hillary. Be responsible for your own feelings.

If criticizing the strategic decisions of a campaign for the presidency of the United States is "demanding emotional labor," that phrase is so broad as to be meaningless.

I'm not criticizing Clinton's strategy... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by enn at 2:16 PM on September 16, 2016

Once again, I'm on your side. Moreover this is get out the vote fucking 101. Knocking on doors and making phone calls helps. Telling people the good things about your candidate helps. If you want more Millennial support, talk to Millennials about Clinton. This is basic.

You can complain about people being whiny and entitled for not voting for Clinton, but if you're going to continue... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by cobra_high_tigers at 2:08 PM on September 16, 2016

ROU_Xenophobe: I mean, really. I'm trying not to be pissed off about this kind of shit, but really.
You might want to try a little harder, bro. FYI I'm already voting for Clinton, and your entire post is responding to some shit I never said and don't think, so I'll try to explain my point more clearly for you since it flew completely over your head (unless you just found it more cathartic to scream at someone else and format it like a response to me):... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by cobra_high_tigers at 1:51 PM on September 16, 2016

A smattering of Qs and As from Al Giordano's Ask Me Anything session on Twitter all revolving around a certain theme:

That's all fine, but Al Giordano is a comic figure who turned a good news site about the drug war into an advertising space for his journalism school and is running an assuredly doomed race for US Senate against Bernie Sanders, so it's odd to see him cited as an authority.

Also, he carries his possessions in a... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by Rustic Etruscan at 12:39 PM on September 16, 2016

For anyone under their mid 20's; I've got a surprise for you in about 30 years.

Do we really become more conservative with age? (UK)

It's possible that it’s not a person’s age that is important, but rather which generation they belong to. Older generations of voters, who were brought up in different circumstances to younger voters, could vote differently as a result [...] It is very difficult to tell whether it is... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by showbiz_liz at 12:05 PM on September 16, 2016

I mean, for fuck's sake, what has Clinton offered liberal young millennials? ... How about an increased minimum wage?

All increases are not the same. Clinton supports a $12/hr minimum wage—Sanders supported $15.

How about 90-whatever percent of what they were saying was making them so excited about Sanders, and that vast, overwhelming chunk of that was SHIT SHE HAS ALWAYS VOCALLY SUPPORTED.... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by enn at 11:38 AM on September 16, 2016

The question was why millennials—the demographic to whom the minimum wage is most important—might want more from Clinton than she's offered. ROU_Xenophobe's claim was that her positions and Sanders's are substantially the same. In this important case, they're very different, and contrary to the claim, her position has not been her position "forever."
posted to MetaFilter by enn at 11:44 AM on September 16, 2016

I guess my point is, if you want to whine about about why millennials are "only" supporting Clinton more strongly than any other age cohort, and not as strongly as some hypothetical, superior generation which doesn't exist might support her, maybe you might want to pay attention to the policy differences between her platform and that of the candidate who generated more millennial enthusiasm. But you can just stick your fingers in your ears and deny that those differences exist and... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by enn at 11:48 AM on September 16, 2016

So I think it's a mixture. Glibly blaming the snake people for the fact that the polls are close is wrong, but so is a response that says "well, we support Clinton more than y'all do." Of course you do, but some of your cohort support those same ideals but are betraying them to vote as a consumer instead of as a citizen.

A couple of things here:
1. It isn't even "my" cohort, I'm just weary of millennial-punching in its... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by cobra_high_tigers at 10:54 AM on September 16, 2016

Um. I like young people, I really do, but:

If a four-way race brings down Clinton support from 70% to 50% isn't that excuse me for a bit of profanity A REALLY FUCKING BIG DEAL

Comments like these and like what Clara Jeffrey tweeted yesterday are so frustrating. Keep in mind that the 18-29 demo has the highest support for Hillary and the lowest support for Trump out of all of the age demographics. God forbid... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by cobra_high_tigers at 9:55 AM on September 16, 2016

MeFi post: Both sides do it!

Sadly, when it comes to climate change responses, Clinton is in what any rational world would categorise as the camp of 'do just barely enough to limit any major political fallout from attacks based on a realistic approach', i. e. where the Repugs should be, while Trump et al are completely and utterly off the planet. True 'balance' is somewhat to the left of the leftmost candidate (though I hate to cast the debate in left right terms).
posted to MetaFilter by wilful at 11:56 PM on September 15, 2016

MeFi post: Honestly, it's kind of draining

There's a reason that very young millennials are strongly anti-Clinton even though the same age group supported Obama energetically during his elections. A small part is probably just that Clinton is 68 years old (though Sanders was older). Part of it is probably that she simply isn't the inspirational speaker that Obama was. But most of it can be laid at the feet of Bernie Sanders. He convinced young voters that Hillary Clinton was a shifty, corrupt, lying shill who cared nothing for... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 4:48 PM on September 15, 2016

The millennials I know are skeptical because their future is uncertain, and their life experiences have not lead to the broader impression there is a brighter economic future that lies ahead for many of them. They are working lower-quality jobs, working more hours, paying more and more of smaller paychecks for basics like food, healthcare and education, and perhaps for the first time, a candidate spoke to these issues — and to them — directly. The one person who stood up for them got railroaded,... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by a lungful of dragon at 4:48 PM on September 15, 2016

The line of reasoning that starts with lack of support for Clinton among the 18-24 demographic and ends with denunciations of Sanders for having run a spirited campaign — a campaign that if nothing else greatly helped Clinton's general election chances by pushing her farther to the left than she would have gone otherwise — is a line of reasoning that confirms the idea that the Democratic Party is: Not a valid site for political dispute, unless that dispute is expressed in the tamest... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:54 PM on September 15, 2016

> Least Sanders can do since he helped create the problem.
posted by chris24 at 3:12 PM on September 15 [3 favorites +] [!]

Lord have mercy.
posted to MetaFilter by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:22 PM on September 15, 2016

Daniel Dale's latest piece: Body double? Secret earpiece? Donald Trump fuels Hillary Clinton conspiracy theories

Donald Trump has encouraged his supporters to buy into a fictional world of dark and unfounded conspiracies.Explicitly and in barely veiled code, Donald Trump has encouraged his supporters to buy into dark and unfounded allegations about his opponent, the president and the world at large. With the help of right-wing media outlets, he has given an unmistakable... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:52 PM on September 14, 2016

Switching to Johnson after supporting Sanders is just ragequitting. Except you're not actually a 13 year old mad because he lost at Counterstrike, only voting with the maturity of one.

I am not even in this group so I have no skin in the game, but comments like these just make me see red. Maybe this election is wearing on me but everyone is pissing me off with their smugness and dismissal and inability to appreciate that anyone else is making... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 4:48 PM on September 14, 2016

I don't think that anyone who goes from supporting Bernie to voting for Gary Johnson is voting on principles, positions or policy. I can't say what they are voting on, but those two candidates don't share a lot of policy positions.

Listening to what they say about why they're voting how they're voting would be a start, I think. I'd imagine it has something to do with some mixture of third party principles, being libertarian (yes, there were plenty of... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 4:11 PM on September 14, 2016

So, Occam's Razor would then suggest that it's not about principles, positions, or policy. It's something else. Something else.

Yes, yes, everyone who is not voting exactly how you personally would vote cannot possibly be voting based on principles, positions, or policy, but rather on sexism, racism, or stupidity. We've made Occam's Razor extremely convenient for us, apparently.
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 4:02 PM on September 14, 2016

Something that Bernie has, and Gary has, but Hil doesn't have. Something that also starts with P. What is it? What could it be? Why would they just be voting for any old Johnson like that?

can we please stop doing this yet again

penis does not necessarily equal man
posted to MetaFilter by burgerrr at 3:43 PM on September 14, 2016

From @theshrillest - The Deplorable Basket: Declaiming who is and isn't racist is a parlor game we don't have time for
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 3:05 PM on September 14, 2016

I'm behind and I think I have the flu, but

Trump's reply was more or less on target: "Our country does not feel 'great already' to the millions of wonderful people living in poverty, violence and despair."

I think this discussion highlights the fact that there is a real gap between how the economy is doing according to actual numbers and how it feels like it's doing. I mean, people's incomes are up. That's a fact.... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by threeturtles at 10:07 PM on September 13, 2016

before the NYT discovers Hillary may have snapped herself as a bee once while on the toilet in the Pentagon

...what?
posted to MetaFilter by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:33 PM on September 13, 2016

MeFi post: an ecological catastrophe

This thread is basically a whole bunch of people saying "well there is a study but I don't agree with it and my opinion is...." Functionally I don't ee a difference between most cat owners like this and people who don't vaccinate their kids. Either the science says one thing or another. If you want yo do differently, knowing the consequences that's your right (most). But why make up all the weird justifications and attack people's conclusions who actually reached them objectively?... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by fshgrl at 9:09 PM on September 13, 2016

MeFi post: Honestly, it's kind of draining

man though. you know what would be a great way to keep former coal-mining communities in Appalachia alive? And former logging communities in the Northwest? And former industrial towns in the Midwest?

Basic. Fucking. Income.
posted to MetaFilter by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:37 PM on September 13, 2016

Yeah, but then he says something demonstrably false and/or disingenuous about Republicans/Trump's or Dem positions. I'm sorry but it feels like concern trolling to me.

It's fine to think that. From my perspective I see a whole lot of people who are unwilling to accept any hint of a criticism of their candidate (and my candidate! I'm voting Clinton! There's no contest!), and who are eager to misread everything I've typed in this thread. It's totally... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by naju at 2:53 PM on September 13, 2016

> But here's the problem. When we offer hope, in the form of help that would be especially useful to many disaffected white voters, in the form of, say, better health insurance options, a non-trivial number panic and treat it as a communist plot. Same with the reactions to paid family leave, making college more affordable, etc...

It would help if most upper-middle class Democrats weren't virulently class-bigoted, and the Democratic Party hadn't... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by nangar at 2:01 PM on September 13, 2016