The cost of activism in football
March 27, 2017 12:23 PM Subscribe
Colin Kaepernick, former quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers has been in the news for refusing to stand during the national anthem (previously), in silent protest of the song and the United States' racist history and present.
He's now looking for a new team and the calls aren't coming. The question is, why?
Kaepernick opted out of his contract with the 49ers (although he would have been released even if he hadn't) and is now a free agent.
In addition to kneeling during the anthem (he says he won't be doing that any more), Kaepernick pledged to donate $1 million to various organizations working in oppressed communities. Organizations that have received money so far include Black Youth Project, Mothers Against Police Brutality, and Center for Reproductive Rights. Most recently, he donated $50,000 to Meals on Wheels.
He hasn't been picked up by another team, and debate is ongoing about whether it's because he is a "distraction," because NFL owners disagree with his political actions, or because he just isn't good enough.
His on-field rival, cornerback Richard Sherman, says there's no doubt he's being blackballed because of his beliefs.
Does Kaepernick have a viable case for collusion?
Colin Kaepernick is called a distraction, but from what?
Kaepernick opted out of his contract with the 49ers (although he would have been released even if he hadn't) and is now a free agent.
In addition to kneeling during the anthem (he says he won't be doing that any more), Kaepernick pledged to donate $1 million to various organizations working in oppressed communities. Organizations that have received money so far include Black Youth Project, Mothers Against Police Brutality, and Center for Reproductive Rights. Most recently, he donated $50,000 to Meals on Wheels.
He hasn't been picked up by another team, and debate is ongoing about whether it's because he is a "distraction," because NFL owners disagree with his political actions, or because he just isn't good enough.
His on-field rival, cornerback Richard Sherman, says there's no doubt he's being blackballed because of his beliefs.
Does Kaepernick have a viable case for collusion?
Colin Kaepernick is called a distraction, but from what?
There’s a problem when those in the business of being curious insist that there’s nothing to see, despite history and the fact there was more interest after Kaepernick’s horrible 2015 season — from those including Trump supporter and Broncos head honcho John Elway — than after his better, healthier 2016 campaign. At once, so many say the NFL is win-at-all-costs while saying teams should acquiesce to the views of their owners and fans, while never attempting to reconcile those conflicting takes.
Kaepernick is good enough to play quarterback in the NFL. Few are run out of the league after posting a 4-to-1 touchdown-interception ratio with someone like Jeremy Kerley as his top receiving threat. Yet none of us are sure he ever will take the field again. That wouldn’t be “the breaks.” That would be a league that uses the power of nonguaranteed contracts to not only maintain the status quo, but enforce it.
He's now looking for a new team and the calls aren't coming. The question is, why?
Football is about excellence on the field and conformity off of it, especially if you're black. Folks who are different (like Rhodes Scholars or high Wonderlic scores) scare coaches, managers, and owners, and that's before we even get to politics. You get politically active, and you'll get a whole sea of old white sportswriters to tell you how you're selfish, how you don't appreciate your genetic gifts, etc. etc.
Oh, and the owners, with the notable exception of Green Bay, are scum. It's one of those rare instances where bringing in corporations would actually improve things.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:34 PM on March 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
Football is about excellence on the field and conformity off of it, especially if you're black. Folks who are different (like Rhodes Scholars or high Wonderlic scores) scare coaches, managers, and owners, and that's before we even get to politics. You get politically active, and you'll get a whole sea of old white sportswriters to tell you how you're selfish, how you don't appreciate your genetic gifts, etc. etc.
Oh, and the owners, with the notable exception of Green Bay, are scum. It's one of those rare instances where bringing in corporations would actually improve things.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:34 PM on March 27, 2017 [30 favorites]
Sherman is a cornerback, whose job it is to prevent, disrupt, or intercept the passes the QB attempts. (Sherman's also a bit of a loudmouth and likes to trash talk the QBs and receivers he's defending against when he's on the field; so he gets a lot of press for having "rivals"). The 49ers and Seahawks are in the same division in the NFL so they play each other frequently, are fighting for the same playoff spots, and are considered rival teams.
posted by misskaz at 12:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by misskaz at 12:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
Like Dana Carvey's Church Lady character but instead of Satan it's racism and also she's actually right 100% of the time.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 12:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
Cornerbacks (Sherman's position) cover receivers, and attempt to disrupt and intercept throws made to those receivers by the quarterback (Kaepernick's position). Sherman plays currently for the Seahawks, and Kaepernick used to play for the 49ers, with both teams being in the same division. That means that when they play on the same field, they're playing directly against one another.
posted by codacorolla at 12:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 12:36 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, and the owners, with the notable exception of Green Bay, are scum.
Thanks. I appreciate being excepted.
posted by yeolcoatl at 12:39 PM on March 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
Meanwhile, rapists, dog killers and other scumbags aren't considered distractions. 'Murica.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:44 PM on March 27, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:44 PM on March 27, 2017 [72 favorites]
There's no question that Kaep's blackness is affecting his situation, but the same basic thing happened to Tim Tebow a few years ago.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:45 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 12:45 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I agree with Sherman, personally.
"Obviously he's going to be in a backup role at this point. But you see quarterbacks, there was a year Matt Schaub had a pretty rough year and got signed the next year. So it has nothing to do with football. You can see that. They signed guys who have had off years before."
Kaepernick is most definitely being blackballed by the league. Even QBs who turn into complete jokes make the run on the backup circuit, and Kaepernick isn't a complete joke. Rex Grossman, on the other hand... Well, Rexy made it through eight seasons of play, none of it that spectacular (outside of one or two playoff runs). He finished his career as a backup for the Washington Football Team. Kaepernick isn't an elite level QB, but he also isn't Rex Grossman. He would make a good backup for a team because he has field experience, and a certain base level of competency. When your superstar goes down (or when your decent second stringer goes down) you want to have that quality in a backup.
posted by codacorolla at 12:47 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Obviously he's going to be in a backup role at this point. But you see quarterbacks, there was a year Matt Schaub had a pretty rough year and got signed the next year. So it has nothing to do with football. You can see that. They signed guys who have had off years before."
Kaepernick is most definitely being blackballed by the league. Even QBs who turn into complete jokes make the run on the backup circuit, and Kaepernick isn't a complete joke. Rex Grossman, on the other hand... Well, Rexy made it through eight seasons of play, none of it that spectacular (outside of one or two playoff runs). He finished his career as a backup for the Washington Football Team. Kaepernick isn't an elite level QB, but he also isn't Rex Grossman. He would make a good backup for a team because he has field experience, and a certain base level of competency. When your superstar goes down (or when your decent second stringer goes down) you want to have that quality in a backup.
posted by codacorolla at 12:47 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've heard this Tebow drive-by argument made a few times without any expansion. All of my gut says it doesn't check out and the situations (not to mention the talents) are not at all similar, but rather than responding to that gut feeling, I'd rather get more detail about what is actually meant by it, so if kevinbelt or anyone else could expand on it, I'd really appreciate it (honestly).
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:48 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:48 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
From a football perspective: He had a great 3rd year after mostly sitting on the bench, somehow got a huge paycheck after two more years of wavering between mediocrity and outright idiocy. SF was horrible last year, but ol CK was cashing that check.
From an ethical perspective: The NFL is one of the most bigoted organizations I've ever seen. Virtually all owners are scum to the core, and usually have fellow family members in on the scum scrum. Wealth can do that to you.
I totally agree with what he did and how he did it.
That being said isn't it: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."?
posted by Sphinx at 12:49 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
From an ethical perspective: The NFL is one of the most bigoted organizations I've ever seen. Virtually all owners are scum to the core, and usually have fellow family members in on the scum scrum. Wealth can do that to you.
I totally agree with what he did and how he did it.
That being said isn't it: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."?
posted by Sphinx at 12:49 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Really struck by the fact that Kaepernick's ongoing silent, peaceful protest was deeply, rage-inducingly unacceptable to white America.
- tweet (click for full thread) from Mefi's own verb
posted by misskaz at 12:53 PM on March 27, 2017 [35 favorites]
- tweet (click for full thread) from Mefi's own verb
posted by misskaz at 12:53 PM on March 27, 2017 [35 favorites]
"There's no question that Kaep's blackness is affecting his situation, but the same basic thing happened to Tim Tebow a few years ago."
I think a much stronger case can be made for Tebow's lack of actual football skill keeping him off a team's roster than can be made regarding the current Kaepernick situation.
posted by joelhunt at 12:54 PM on March 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
I think a much stronger case can be made for Tebow's lack of actual football skill keeping him off a team's roster than can be made regarding the current Kaepernick situation.
posted by joelhunt at 12:54 PM on March 27, 2017 [19 favorites]
Tebow was signed to a team in 2015 when he decided to take another run at the NFL, so he didn't lack for opportunity. Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez just signed another deal this year, despite being a turnover machine. Even Johnny Manziel can still have his name bandied about for jobs, and he's certainly a distraction. Kaepernick is a far better QB option than any of those players.
posted by gladly at 1:00 PM on March 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by gladly at 1:00 PM on March 27, 2017 [20 favorites]
There's no question that Kaep's blackness is affecting his situation, but the same basic thing happened to Tim Tebow a few years ago.
I'm sorry, which Super Bowl-winning QB did the 49ers sign to replace Kaepernick? Did I miss Blaine Gabbert's championship season while I was in grad school?
posted by Etrigan at 1:02 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm sorry, which Super Bowl-winning QB did the 49ers sign to replace Kaepernick? Did I miss Blaine Gabbert's championship season while I was in grad school?
posted by Etrigan at 1:02 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
The toxic myths of masculinity perpetuated by the NFL are thrown into very stark and ugly terms when highlighted against the toxic myth of the threat of Black masculinity; Kaepernick's protest of state violence against Black Americans is an indictment of the myth of the threat of Black masculinity. It is, therefore, a threat to the myth of masculinity perpetuated by the NFL.
There's much more to be unpacked there, especially as you start getting into the blind eye the NFL throws toward domestic violence, and the unstoppable urban legend that Super Bowl Sunday has the highest rates of domestic violence in the US, as well as their weird merchandising choices when trying to attract women fans.
posted by crush at 1:10 PM on March 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
There's much more to be unpacked there, especially as you start getting into the blind eye the NFL throws toward domestic violence, and the unstoppable urban legend that Super Bowl Sunday has the highest rates of domestic violence in the US, as well as their weird merchandising choices when trying to attract women fans.
posted by crush at 1:10 PM on March 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
I just meant that Tebow got minimal interest as a free agent, which, based on comments by GMs, seemed to be a result of his media profile. When he was cut by the Patriots, no one else showed interest, even though he was only a year and a half removed from winning a playoff game in which he threw for 300 yards. Meanwhile, as mentioned above, guys like Matt Schaub and Rex Grossman (or Kyle Orton, or however many others) seem to have no trouble finding jobs regardless of performance. Greg McElroy got a start over Tebow in 2012. My point was that NFL GMs seem to prefer lesser-talented guys who keep a low profile for backup jobs, and both Tebow and Kaep, for different reasons, have media profiles that are too high. Tebow eventually did get another opportunity (after being out of football for a year), and I fully expect Kaep to get an offer eventually too. It's not a 1:1 analogy, but no analogy is. Basically, if you're an NFL player who attracts protracted media attention for something other than football, you'd better be good enough to overcome that bias. The aforementioned Richard Sherman is outspoken, but he's one of the two or three best corners in the league. Kaepernick and Tebow are depth players, and so they get passed over for lower-profile guys.
posted by kevinbelt at 1:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 1:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am not at a level of a pro scout in terms of evaluating talent, but it seems to me that he is a mediocre talent. My guess is that him getting a job will come down to money and the salary cap. Heck, the Giants signed Geno Smith. He really sucks but he was willing to take a one year deal at a backup level salary (on the low end). I also think that the Cowboys refusing to release Tony Romo has created some uncertainty in the market for quarterbacks, starters or backups.
However racist many of the owners may be, money and winning trumps that, and if they think CK can help them win at a reasonable cost, they will sign him.
posted by AugustWest at 1:25 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
However racist many of the owners may be, money and winning trumps that, and if they think CK can help them win at a reasonable cost, they will sign him.
posted by AugustWest at 1:25 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
There are several unaddressed shades of gray here. In no particular order:
While the NFL has a decidedly checkered past on domestic violence, Ray Rice couldn't get a job after his suspension -- although that could've been a function of declining performance as well.
Jay Cutler is a better quarterback than Kaep, and he is unemployed as well.
Kaepernick's protest was justified and noble; however, it was accompanied by some social justice blunders, e.g., wearing socks representing policemen as literal pigs, wearing a T-shirt glorifying Fidel Castro around the time the 49ers visited Miami, then coming off as misinformed and insensitive when it was called into question and virtually bragging about failing to vote on Election Day.
Kaep's reluctance to serve as a backup and/or compete for a starting gig may be hurting his chances.
All that said, I absolutely believe politics are at play here. I just don't know if I'd go so far as to call it blackballing.
posted by DrAstroZoom at 1:29 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
While the NFL has a decidedly checkered past on domestic violence, Ray Rice couldn't get a job after his suspension -- although that could've been a function of declining performance as well.
Jay Cutler is a better quarterback than Kaep, and he is unemployed as well.
Kaepernick's protest was justified and noble; however, it was accompanied by some social justice blunders, e.g., wearing socks representing policemen as literal pigs, wearing a T-shirt glorifying Fidel Castro around the time the 49ers visited Miami, then coming off as misinformed and insensitive when it was called into question and virtually bragging about failing to vote on Election Day.
Kaep's reluctance to serve as a backup and/or compete for a starting gig may be hurting his chances.
All that said, I absolutely believe politics are at play here. I just don't know if I'd go so far as to call it blackballing.
posted by DrAstroZoom at 1:29 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
The 49er organization was publicly supportive of Kaepernick's protests, while at the same time leaking toxic rumors to the press that Kaepernick had alienated the locker room with his antics (which as always was complete bullshit).
But you know what, I expect NFL owners and GMs to be reactionary, cowardly, self-protective pieces of shit. What always pisses me off about the reactions to Kaepernick are when leftists get all high and mighty about how he's not doing it right. Kaepernick doesn't have all the answers, he's muddling through just like the rest of us.
posted by muddgirl at 1:31 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
But you know what, I expect NFL owners and GMs to be reactionary, cowardly, self-protective pieces of shit. What always pisses me off about the reactions to Kaepernick are when leftists get all high and mighty about how he's not doing it right. Kaepernick doesn't have all the answers, he's muddling through just like the rest of us.
posted by muddgirl at 1:31 PM on March 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
However racist many of the owners may be, money and winning trumps that, and if they think CK can help them win at a reasonable cost, they will sign him.
No, if they think Kaepernick can make them more money, they will sign him, and a huge part of their calculus is how many (white) people won't buy tickets or jerseys if they sign him.
posted by Etrigan at 1:34 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
No, if they think Kaepernick can make them more money, they will sign him, and a huge part of their calculus is how many (white) people won't buy tickets or jerseys if they sign him.
posted by Etrigan at 1:34 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
No, if they think Kaepernick can make them more money, they will sign him, and a huge part of their calculus is how many (white) people won't buy tickets or jerseys if they sign him.
Well, somebody was buying all of those Kaepernick jerseys that white douchebags were demonstratively burning on Youtube, so maybe he was making them money anyway.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:41 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, somebody was buying all of those Kaepernick jerseys that white douchebags were demonstratively burning on Youtube, so maybe he was making them money anyway.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:41 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Look, everybody knows that all you have to do to get to the Super Bowl is replace Alex Smith with Colin Kaepernick. Kansas City needs to quit screwing around and sign him already.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:51 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:51 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
You can beat your wife or your kids, but don't bad mouth 'Murrica.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:53 PM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:53 PM on March 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump has - as he does with many other things - taken credit for this:
“And you know, your San Francisco quarterback,” Trump told a rally in Louisville, Kentucky. “I’m sure nobody ever heard of him. I’m just reporting the news. There was an article today -- I love to report the news and then they said I made a mistake, right? I said, ‘No, the people reporting the news made a mistake if it’s wrong.’ But there was an article today, it was reported that NFL owners don’t want to pick him up because they don’t want to get a nasty tweet from Donald Trump. Do you believe that? I just saw that. I just saw that. I said if I remember that one I’m gonna report it to the people of the Kentucky. Because they like it when people actually stand for the American flag.”posted by zakur at 2:00 PM on March 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
This seems to have less to do with his race than his political stand. There are more than a few high profile players who have done deplorable things and have been given a second chance, including Mike Vick (dog fighting) and Ray Lewis (murder conspiracy), but none of them have forced the league to question its patriotic themes.
I'm a fan of a rival team (seahawks), and Richard Sherman made a single play that cost Kap and his team a trip to the superbowl, so yeah, they are rival players. but Kap's protests have made me respect him much more as a human being than I do as a player.
I'm hoping there's an opening on a team with a sympathetic GM/owner, and he gets a chance to play again in the league.
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:07 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm a fan of a rival team (seahawks), and Richard Sherman made a single play that cost Kap and his team a trip to the superbowl, so yeah, they are rival players. but Kap's protests have made me respect him much more as a human being than I do as a player.
I'm hoping there's an opening on a team with a sympathetic GM/owner, and he gets a chance to play again in the league.
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:07 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
This seems to have less to do with his race than his political stand.
These two things are inextricably linked.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:11 PM on March 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
These two things are inextricably linked.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:11 PM on March 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
Shannon Sharpe's statement on this made me want to stand up and applaud. What's happening to Kaepernick is shameful.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:15 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:15 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
This seems to have less to do with his race than his political stand.
Yeah, this is like when openly gay Eric Fanning was appointed Secretary of the Army and folks got bent out of shape about it being a political move.
If you're not a straight cis white dude, sometimes just even BEING in public is political. "Black man has opinion, does a thing" becomes headline news.
posted by phunniemee at 2:28 PM on March 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
Yeah, this is like when openly gay Eric Fanning was appointed Secretary of the Army and folks got bent out of shape about it being a political move.
If you're not a straight cis white dude, sometimes just even BEING in public is political. "Black man has opinion, does a thing" becomes headline news.
posted by phunniemee at 2:28 PM on March 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
It seems that Kaepernick made the fatal error of being controversial (in the eyes of NFL owners) and not being really good. If this was Chad Johnson everyone would hem and haw, but in the end if he's delivering the goods on the field he's lovably infuriating rather than a lighting rod of controversy. This is, incidentally, where the comparison to Tebow is often made. Tebow was a media circus without being that good, but he was not controversial. Kaepernick is better than Tebow, but still not good enough to justify the "controversy".
It also fits into a larger story of what is an odd NFL offseason. Players like Kaepernick, Jay Cutler and Adrian Peterson all remain unsigned, despite being at minimum solid NFL players, but the retired and also controversial Marshawn Lynch is being heavily linked with a move to a lame duck franchise in Oakland.
posted by Jacks Dented Yugo at 2:28 PM on March 27, 2017
It also fits into a larger story of what is an odd NFL offseason. Players like Kaepernick, Jay Cutler and Adrian Peterson all remain unsigned, despite being at minimum solid NFL players, but the retired and also controversial Marshawn Lynch is being heavily linked with a move to a lame duck franchise in Oakland.
posted by Jacks Dented Yugo at 2:28 PM on March 27, 2017
The issue over whether he's being blackballed over his race / politics is a separate argument from the one about whether he's a serviceable NFL quarterback. Living in the Bay Area and having seen most of his games the last couple of years I'm not really sure he deserves a job based on merit. He's been remarkably ineffective. This isn't to say that he's NOT being unfairly treated because there are a lot of awful QBs in the league that seem to always have a job, but Colin Kaepernick hasn't been "good" or even "decent" for a couple of years now. He's been mediocre to awful.
posted by dreamlanding at 2:38 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dreamlanding at 2:38 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
The question is, why?
Because a lot of Americans are racist shit bags?
posted by supercrayon at 3:02 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Because a lot of Americans are racist shit bags?
posted by supercrayon at 3:02 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
It would be bad if someone's apparently sincere and pretty moderate political opinions actually are behind why this person is losing their job. This is why The worst XKCD of all time is a terrible interpretation of free speech, if your ideas are in conflict with the opinions of people with power in a situation then you need protecting from the people with power, and in lots of interactions the people with power are not the government. That is just as much the case if you are Kaepernick or Murray or Singer or a Corporate Whistleblower.
(Disclaimer: I have literally watched one American football match in my entire life which I spent figuring out first how forward passing worked as a concept and then amazed how integral adverts must be to American sport because wow - watching the Superbowl with BBC pundits having to fill in every second of downtime had a lot of time where nothing happened, and this comes from a cricket fan. )
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 3:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Disclaimer: I have literally watched one American football match in my entire life which I spent figuring out first how forward passing worked as a concept and then amazed how integral adverts must be to American sport because wow - watching the Superbowl with BBC pundits having to fill in every second of downtime had a lot of time where nothing happened, and this comes from a cricket fan. )
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 3:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Counterpoint to the "it's his performance" point of view (with apologies because I've largely stopped following the NFL): the Niners have been hot garbage ever since their incompetent ownership ran Harbaugh out of town on a rail. They've fired a head coach once per year since, and many of the defensive stars retired after Harbaugh left. Football is a team sport. Kaepernick doesn't lose on his own. Kaepernick is young and without the accumulated wear and attitude problems that Jay Cutler has. He doesn't carry the child abuse baggage of Adrian Peterson. He would be a fine backup. I'd certainly take him over say Dan Orlovsky or Mark Sanchez.
The performance argument doesn't pass the smell test to me. I'd say he's being blackballed.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:07 PM on March 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
The performance argument doesn't pass the smell test to me. I'd say he's being blackballed.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:07 PM on March 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
> his is why The worst XKCD of all time is a terrible interpretation of free speech, if your ideas are in conflict with the opinions of people with power in a situation then you need protecting from the people with power, and in lots of interactions the people with power are not the government.
The xkcd cartoon in question is likely referencing one of two incidents which happened fairly close together, one in which the star of Duck Dynasty made some homophobic remarks and had his show suspended and possibly another in which the CEO of Mozilla was entangled in some controversy and ultimately resigned over his private donations to an anti-gay marriage campaign in California. Also Sarah Palin crying "free speech" every time she was criticized for saying something horrible.
So I guess I'm not inclined to agree with you that it is the worst xkcd of all time (though Eich resigning still seems unfair to me). It isn't the obligation of a private organization to give voice to political opinions or even want to go near them. The fact that the NFL are flaming hypocrites who have employed some pretty horrible people comes in for more criticism here than the fact that they want to cut ties with someone who has (minorly) politically controversial views. If he was good enough, he would have no trouble finding a job, but if he falls into the wrong side of the good/controversial line, he's out of luck and that is the greater pity.
(And this is all with limited information, mind you. Sources tell us he is looking for starter money and a shot at a starter job. He may have had interest as a backup that he's rejecting for something better).
posted by Jacks Dented Yugo at 4:13 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
The xkcd cartoon in question is likely referencing one of two incidents which happened fairly close together, one in which the star of Duck Dynasty made some homophobic remarks and had his show suspended and possibly another in which the CEO of Mozilla was entangled in some controversy and ultimately resigned over his private donations to an anti-gay marriage campaign in California. Also Sarah Palin crying "free speech" every time she was criticized for saying something horrible.
So I guess I'm not inclined to agree with you that it is the worst xkcd of all time (though Eich resigning still seems unfair to me). It isn't the obligation of a private organization to give voice to political opinions or even want to go near them. The fact that the NFL are flaming hypocrites who have employed some pretty horrible people comes in for more criticism here than the fact that they want to cut ties with someone who has (minorly) politically controversial views. If he was good enough, he would have no trouble finding a job, but if he falls into the wrong side of the good/controversial line, he's out of luck and that is the greater pity.
(And this is all with limited information, mind you. Sources tell us he is looking for starter money and a shot at a starter job. He may have had interest as a backup that he's rejecting for something better).
posted by Jacks Dented Yugo at 4:13 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Until last week I assumed that Kaepernick was white. Not sure why - I guess Colin just read as a white name to me and I don't actually care about football so I didn't think much about it. So I thought CK was a super cool white guy who was taking all this flak for taking a stand about racism. Again, I don't really follow this stuff, so I assumed people were just threatened by him being a social justice warrior. I was like, go Kaepernick, good for you.
Then I read that he was being blackballed from employment because of his politics. At that point something felt fishy to me. I look him up and, ah, he's not white after all. Well, well.
So yeah. It felt remarkable but plausible to me that a white man in the NFL would take a knee to protest racism, and remarkable but plausible that commentators would be annoyed, outraged, etc about it. But it did NOT feel plausible that he would suffer any lasting consequences. Then, and only then, did I look him up and find out what he looked like. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw about my own internalized racism from this unintentional experiment.
posted by potrzebie at 4:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Then I read that he was being blackballed from employment because of his politics. At that point something felt fishy to me. I look him up and, ah, he's not white after all. Well, well.
So yeah. It felt remarkable but plausible to me that a white man in the NFL would take a knee to protest racism, and remarkable but plausible that commentators would be annoyed, outraged, etc about it. But it did NOT feel plausible that he would suffer any lasting consequences. Then, and only then, did I look him up and find out what he looked like. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw about my own internalized racism from this unintentional experiment.
posted by potrzebie at 4:27 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Then I read that he was being blackballed from employment because of his politics. At that point something felt fishy to me. I look him up and, ah, he's not white after all. Well, well.
Not to be a jerk or anything, but this is more of a central fact than a telling but obscure detail that few others have noticed
posted by clockzero at 6:17 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not to be a jerk or anything, but this is more of a central fact than a telling but obscure detail that few others have noticed
posted by clockzero at 6:17 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you don't think Tim Tebow is a good analogy, the same can be said of Michael Sam as well.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:22 PM on March 27, 2017
posted by kevinbelt at 6:22 PM on March 27, 2017
To leave politics and race aside for a minute, let's talk... um, football.
Kaepernick is an unconventional QB. He was part of a wave of QBs with unconventional skills (see: Griffin III -- a sensation and uncontroversial but also currently looking for work in the CFL).
The league (defenses) caught up to this style of uber-mobile QB. His skill set isn't good enough in a conventional sense to overcome that.
To succeed with a new team, that team would need to rework their offensive scheme to fit CK's skill set. And success would be far from assured.
For backups, teams want a QB that fits their scheme. Not the other way around.
This coming from a very proud fan of a team that had the first black coach, first Hispanic coach, first Hispanic qb, first female exec. I don't want CK as even our backup on minimum salary. The downside simply outweighs the upside.
posted by raider at 6:52 PM on March 27, 2017
Kaepernick is an unconventional QB. He was part of a wave of QBs with unconventional skills (see: Griffin III -- a sensation and uncontroversial but also currently looking for work in the CFL).
The league (defenses) caught up to this style of uber-mobile QB. His skill set isn't good enough in a conventional sense to overcome that.
To succeed with a new team, that team would need to rework their offensive scheme to fit CK's skill set. And success would be far from assured.
For backups, teams want a QB that fits their scheme. Not the other way around.
This coming from a very proud fan of a team that had the first black coach, first Hispanic coach, first Hispanic qb, first female exec. I don't want CK as even our backup on minimum salary. The downside simply outweighs the upside.
posted by raider at 6:52 PM on March 27, 2017
I'd think raiders fans would be looking for people with experience playing in Nevada.
Seriously the NFL is a garbage league, but Kaepernick has had a seriously poor run of play.
posted by JPD at 7:05 PM on March 27, 2017
Seriously the NFL is a garbage league, but Kaepernick has had a seriously poor run of play.
posted by JPD at 7:05 PM on March 27, 2017
If you don't think Tim Tebow is a good analogy, the same can be said of Michael Sam as well
Except Tebow and Sam never had a season like Kaepernick did in 2012 and 2013. The issue is he's been pretty mediocre since Harbaugh left for Michigan. So is it scheme or something else. Hard to say.
posted by JPD at 7:09 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Except Tebow and Sam never had a season like Kaepernick did in 2012 and 2013. The issue is he's been pretty mediocre since Harbaugh left for Michigan. So is it scheme or something else. Hard to say.
posted by JPD at 7:09 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
See also: Chris Kluwe. Outspoken for gay rights. Got canned by Minnesota. Wrote a lengthy treatise/diatribe (linked, as well as lots of other media attention)
Claimed to be blackballed but got signed by the progressive Raiders. And was cut.
Guess what? He wasn't good enough at kicking the damn ball!
posted by raider at 7:19 PM on March 27, 2017
Claimed to be blackballed but got signed by the progressive Raiders. And was cut.
Guess what? He wasn't good enough at kicking the damn ball!
posted by raider at 7:19 PM on March 27, 2017
It sounds like you're straining to do some explaining, my man.
posted by codacorolla at 7:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 7:21 PM on March 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Codacorolla, I'll assume you're addressing me.
In a way I am because there seem to be a lot of folks in this thread who are quick to condemn football yet either explicitly or implicitly don't understand it very well.
posted by raider at 7:24 PM on March 27, 2017
In a way I am because there seem to be a lot of folks in this thread who are quick to condemn football yet either explicitly or implicitly don't understand it very well.
posted by raider at 7:24 PM on March 27, 2017
In a way I am because there seem to be a lot of folks in this who are quick to condemn football yet either explicitly or implicitly don't understand it very well.
Weird. I'm only seeing seeing one.
posted by codacorolla at 7:26 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Weird. I'm only seeing seeing one.
posted by codacorolla at 7:26 PM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted; keep it cool in here, we can talk football without going after each other.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:35 PM on March 27, 2017
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:35 PM on March 27, 2017
The apparent blackballing of Kaepernick for a peaceful anti-violence protest stands in pretty stark contrast to the lawsuit of former players against the NFL for running a systematic organized interstate drug smuggling and pushing ring with incredible leniency from the FBI and DEA.
As always the richer people get protected and the poorer people get policed. Even when it is Billionaires versus millionaires.
The NFL owners are some of the worst people on earth.
posted by srboisvert at 7:37 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
As always the richer people get protected and the poorer people get policed. Even when it is Billionaires versus millionaires.
The NFL owners are some of the worst people on earth.
posted by srboisvert at 7:37 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
Jay Cutler is a better quarterback than Kaep, and he is unemployed as well.
Jay Cutler has a history of being able to sometimes connect with giant pro-bowl recievers. He also has a history of being able to connect with mediocre or better cornerbacks on the other team.
The guy had a decade and people still talk about him being good or having potential. He won a high school championship. After that it has been a losing record. 11-35 in college. His pro-career is around 50% wins and his last winning season was 2012. He is 2-1 in the playoffs during his 11 season long pro career.
Kaepernick took his team to a superbowl and is 4-2 in the playoffs during a six year career.
If you want to know what whiteness buys you in the NFL from here it sure likes about at least double the opportunity at about half the performance yet still being considered roughly equal.
posted by srboisvert at 7:57 PM on March 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Jay Cutler has a history of being able to sometimes connect with giant pro-bowl recievers. He also has a history of being able to connect with mediocre or better cornerbacks on the other team.
The guy had a decade and people still talk about him being good or having potential. He won a high school championship. After that it has been a losing record. 11-35 in college. His pro-career is around 50% wins and his last winning season was 2012. He is 2-1 in the playoffs during his 11 season long pro career.
Kaepernick took his team to a superbowl and is 4-2 in the playoffs during a six year career.
If you want to know what whiteness buys you in the NFL from here it sure likes about at least double the opportunity at about half the performance yet still being considered roughly equal.
posted by srboisvert at 7:57 PM on March 27, 2017 [13 favorites]
Kaepernick basically called police "pigs." That is a hateful epithet and would be a valid reason to question hiring him to represent your organization.
Also, I wasn't impressed with his decision not to vote after holding himself out as a political activist. That was a misuse of whatever influence he had. Kaepernick's political causes are certainly suffering as a result of all those who followed that type of logic now
posted by knoyers at 7:57 PM on March 27, 2017
Also, I wasn't impressed with his decision not to vote after holding himself out as a political activist. That was a misuse of whatever influence he had. Kaepernick's political causes are certainly suffering as a result of all those who followed that type of logic now
posted by knoyers at 7:57 PM on March 27, 2017
"Kaepernick is an unconventional QB. He was part of a wave of QBs with unconventional skills (see: Griffin III -- a sensation and uncontroversial but also currently looking for work in the CFL).
The league (defenses) caught up to this style of uber-mobile QB. His skill set isn't good enough in a conventional sense to overcome that. "
Well, no, league defenses haven't really caught up to the uber-mobile QB. RGIII is looking for work because he has avian bone syndrome, not because defenses caught up with him. Cam Newton still routinely makes defenses look stupid, and Russell Wilson had a bum year last year, but has been pretty effective. Aaron Rodgers managed to have a decent season last year despite having all his RBs eaten by grues. Kaepernick's troubles have at least as much to do with the coterie of bums that he's surrounded by — it's not like Kearse made Wilson look much better.
"To succeed with a new team, that team would need to rework their offensive scheme to fit CK's skill set. And success would be far from assured.
For backups, teams want a QB that fits their scheme. Not the other way around."
These are fair points, and go back to one of the problems that Kaep does have — he's unconventional in a league with only a few teams that are good at building schemes for unconventional QBs.
"This coming from a very proud fan of a team that had the first black coach, first Hispanic coach, first Hispanic qb, first female exec. I don't want CK as even our backup on minimum salary. The downside simply outweighs the upside."
Also a proud fan of the team whose owner tried to torpedo a Hall of Famer's career over a contract dispute, who fucked Lane Kiffen, who was full of bizarre, paranoid personal vendettas against, well, everyone…
"In a way I am because there seem to be a lot of folks in this thread who are quick to condemn football yet either explicitly or implicitly don't understand it very well."
There are some of us who understand it well enough to recognize a bullshit apologia that's bordering on cliche.
"Kaepernick basically called police "pigs." That is a hateful epithet and represents a valid reason to question hiring him to represent your organization.
Also, I wasn't impressed with his decision not to vote after holding himself out as a political activist. That was a misuse of whatever influence he had. Kaepernick's political causes are certainly suffering as a result of all those who followed that type of logic now"
Le eye roll over pig socks, and if you're not gonna hire someone to play football because they don't vote, well, I think we've officially crossed over into "bitch eatin' crackers like she own the place" territory.
posted by klangklangston at 8:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
The league (defenses) caught up to this style of uber-mobile QB. His skill set isn't good enough in a conventional sense to overcome that. "
Well, no, league defenses haven't really caught up to the uber-mobile QB. RGIII is looking for work because he has avian bone syndrome, not because defenses caught up with him. Cam Newton still routinely makes defenses look stupid, and Russell Wilson had a bum year last year, but has been pretty effective. Aaron Rodgers managed to have a decent season last year despite having all his RBs eaten by grues. Kaepernick's troubles have at least as much to do with the coterie of bums that he's surrounded by — it's not like Kearse made Wilson look much better.
"To succeed with a new team, that team would need to rework their offensive scheme to fit CK's skill set. And success would be far from assured.
For backups, teams want a QB that fits their scheme. Not the other way around."
These are fair points, and go back to one of the problems that Kaep does have — he's unconventional in a league with only a few teams that are good at building schemes for unconventional QBs.
"This coming from a very proud fan of a team that had the first black coach, first Hispanic coach, first Hispanic qb, first female exec. I don't want CK as even our backup on minimum salary. The downside simply outweighs the upside."
Also a proud fan of the team whose owner tried to torpedo a Hall of Famer's career over a contract dispute, who fucked Lane Kiffen, who was full of bizarre, paranoid personal vendettas against, well, everyone…
"In a way I am because there seem to be a lot of folks in this thread who are quick to condemn football yet either explicitly or implicitly don't understand it very well."
There are some of us who understand it well enough to recognize a bullshit apologia that's bordering on cliche.
"Kaepernick basically called police "pigs." That is a hateful epithet and represents a valid reason to question hiring him to represent your organization.
Also, I wasn't impressed with his decision not to vote after holding himself out as a political activist. That was a misuse of whatever influence he had. Kaepernick's political causes are certainly suffering as a result of all those who followed that type of logic now"
Le eye roll over pig socks, and if you're not gonna hire someone to play football because they don't vote, well, I think we've officially crossed over into "bitch eatin' crackers like she own the place" territory.
posted by klangklangston at 8:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [11 favorites]
The socks depicted pigs with police hats. In subsequent interviews, he made it clear that his intended message was exactly what it looked like. And that is a hateful statement that crosses a line in my opinion. If I was a large organization wanting to avoid negative publicity as well as turning off segments of the public, I would be concerned over that
I didn't mean that Kaepernick's non-voting is a reason not to hire him, but it certainly affects my personal opinion of him and diminishes the sympathy I could have for this multimillionaire, just-OK football player's recent unemployment
posted by knoyers at 8:21 PM on March 27, 2017
I didn't mean that Kaepernick's non-voting is a reason not to hire him, but it certainly affects my personal opinion of him and diminishes the sympathy I could have for this multimillionaire, just-OK football player's recent unemployment
posted by knoyers at 8:21 PM on March 27, 2017
Sir Klangklangston, was that intended as a digest of condemnation or were you (mis-)attributing all those quotes to me?
Newton, Rogers, Wilson DO have the "conventional" skills I was referring to. Thanks for inadvertently agreeing with me.
We can discuss Al Davis another time; pretty sure that wouldn't be welcome in this thread. But shedding tears for Lane Kiffin???
posted by raider at 8:23 PM on March 27, 2017
Newton, Rogers, Wilson DO have the "conventional" skills I was referring to. Thanks for inadvertently agreeing with me.
We can discuss Al Davis another time; pretty sure that wouldn't be welcome in this thread. But shedding tears for Lane Kiffin???
posted by raider at 8:23 PM on March 27, 2017
Yeah, the socks were way over the line--pigs are gentle, sensitive creatures. I don't know why you would compare them to police.
posted by Gymnopedist at 8:33 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Gymnopedist at 8:33 PM on March 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
The cops can cry a million fucking rivers and being called a pig will never amount to all the dead kids they've left in their wake. "Pig" is about the politest goddamned thing you can call a cop.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:45 PM on March 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 8:45 PM on March 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
Kaepernick basically called police "pigs." That is a hateful epithet and represents a valid reason to question hiring him to represent your organization.
Come the fuck on. A guy who beats kids with sticks is a better representative? A guy who throws women on stacks of guns? Hell, the Seahawks drafted a guy who got booted off his college team for choking his girlfriend and who then suggested she deserved it. And before we get into the minutia, yes I'm aware that they were on different teams in the league. A pair of socks with pigs in cop hats is a joke compared to the horrible acts of men deemed worthy of starter spot.
Again, Kaepernick might have a specialized style of play, but you can't tell me he'd be a worse backup than a guy like Orlovsky. No, he's being blackballed.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:50 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Come the fuck on. A guy who beats kids with sticks is a better representative? A guy who throws women on stacks of guns? Hell, the Seahawks drafted a guy who got booted off his college team for choking his girlfriend and who then suggested she deserved it. And before we get into the minutia, yes I'm aware that they were on different teams in the league. A pair of socks with pigs in cop hats is a joke compared to the horrible acts of men deemed worthy of starter spot.
Again, Kaepernick might have a specialized style of play, but you can't tell me he'd be a worse backup than a guy like Orlovsky. No, he's being blackballed.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:50 PM on March 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. knoyers, you've made your point that you think Kaepernick was out of line about the police; now rather than insisting on a take-all-comers fight with people who disagree, please just let it be.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:55 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:55 PM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
"The socks depicted pigs with police hats. In subsequent interviews, he made it clear that his intended message was exactly what it looked like. And that is a hateful statement that crosses a line in my opinion. If I was a large organization wanting to avoid negative publicity as well as turning off segments of the public, I would be concerned over that"
Man, if that gives you the vapors, I don't understand how you can support the NFL at all, given how it inflicts brain injury, supports wife and child beaters (again and again), and is basically a moral hazard worth about a billion pig-cop socks.
"Sir Klangklangston, was that intended as a digest of condemnation or were you (mis-)attributing all those quotes to me?"
Sometimes, I use the magic of italics to quote more than one person. Handily, there was no attribution, so I'm not sure why you thought there was.
Newton, Rogers, Wilson DO have the "conventional" skills I was referring to. Thanks for inadvertently agreeing with me.
At least "moving the goalposts" is an appropriate fallacy. I was pointing out that your reasoning — that defenses had caught up — isn't actually supported by the facts. Kaep has the talent to start in the NFL based on comparable quarterbacks starting for other teams (any league where Osweiler starts and Kaep doesn't has something wrong with it).
We can discuss Al Davis another time; pretty sure that wouldn't be welcome in this thread. But shedding tears for Lane Kiffin??"
Dude, you're the one who wants to stan for how progressive the Raiders are as a defense for the idea that Kaep is being blackballed. It's worth noting that Davis was a petty, vindictive bastard as well as a civil rights pioneer.
posted by klangklangston at 9:13 PM on March 27, 2017
Man, if that gives you the vapors, I don't understand how you can support the NFL at all, given how it inflicts brain injury, supports wife and child beaters (again and again), and is basically a moral hazard worth about a billion pig-cop socks.
"Sir Klangklangston, was that intended as a digest of condemnation or were you (mis-)attributing all those quotes to me?"
Sometimes, I use the magic of italics to quote more than one person. Handily, there was no attribution, so I'm not sure why you thought there was.
Newton, Rogers, Wilson DO have the "conventional" skills I was referring to. Thanks for inadvertently agreeing with me.
At least "moving the goalposts" is an appropriate fallacy. I was pointing out that your reasoning — that defenses had caught up — isn't actually supported by the facts. Kaep has the talent to start in the NFL based on comparable quarterbacks starting for other teams (any league where Osweiler starts and Kaep doesn't has something wrong with it).
We can discuss Al Davis another time; pretty sure that wouldn't be welcome in this thread. But shedding tears for Lane Kiffin??"
Dude, you're the one who wants to stan for how progressive the Raiders are as a defense for the idea that Kaep is being blackballed. It's worth noting that Davis was a petty, vindictive bastard as well as a civil rights pioneer.
posted by klangklangston at 9:13 PM on March 27, 2017
What I think I've observed over the years is that people will absolutely lose their shit if you question, or especially if you make them question, their belief and value system. NFL players caught engaging in domestic violence are obviously behaving badly, but they're not making Joe Owner and Fred Fan question their own values. A black man pointing out, with justification, that police don't always behave as guardian angels? Now THAT is truly intolerable because it's bringing your value system into question.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 10:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by LastOfHisKind at 10:03 PM on March 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Some good back and forth in here, but the argument that a terrible QB should have a job just because other terrible QBs who haven't spoken out happen to have jobs isn't compelling. If it seemed like his level of play could place him in the top 50% of BACKUPS in the league I'd be more inclined to be outraged over his unemployment.
The guy has been unable to consistently make short, routine passes that most HS quarterbacks would make. He's certainly had a garbage supporting cast but the overthrows and underthrows from the past TWO seasons stick in the memory more than the Superbowl appearance five or so years ago.
I've no doubt that NFL owners are a bunch of old problematic white guys, but Kap doesn't make the strongest martyr.
posted by dreamlanding at 10:47 PM on March 27, 2017
The guy has been unable to consistently make short, routine passes that most HS quarterbacks would make. He's certainly had a garbage supporting cast but the overthrows and underthrows from the past TWO seasons stick in the memory more than the Superbowl appearance five or so years ago.
I've no doubt that NFL owners are a bunch of old problematic white guys, but Kap doesn't make the strongest martyr.
posted by dreamlanding at 10:47 PM on March 27, 2017
Kap doesn't make the strongest martyr.
Yeah, he's no angel.
posted by Etrigan at 1:55 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, he's no angel.
posted by Etrigan at 1:55 AM on March 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
If we wait for the best martyr, who will we have? Will we wait forever?
posted by (Over) Thinking at 2:24 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by (Over) Thinking at 2:24 AM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Will we wait forever?
That's generally the idea when people insist that your heroes and victims must be perfect.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:25 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
That's generally the idea when people insist that your heroes and victims must be perfect.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:25 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's also worth pointing out that there are calendar issues at work here. After a flurry of activity when free agency first opened up, teams' focus now is on the draft, which is at the end of next month. Also, teams are forbidden from doing any sort of organized practices, meetings, etc at this time of year. Non-contact minicamps and OTA's start up in April and May, so you may see some signings there. So far, there's no incentive to hurry up and sign a guy who's currently unsigned, because you can't do anything with him yet anyway.
Most teams will wait to see how their team looks after the draft, before they sign guys like Kaepernick, Cutler, Tony Romo, Peterson, etc. They won't need them before then anyway, and a guy you draft is way cheaper than a guy you sign or trade for.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:14 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Most teams will wait to see how their team looks after the draft, before they sign guys like Kaepernick, Cutler, Tony Romo, Peterson, etc. They won't need them before then anyway, and a guy you draft is way cheaper than a guy you sign or trade for.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:14 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
> given how it inflicts brain injury
OK, might be a derail from the "is it racism" main event, but while we're on the subject of what shitbags NFL leaders are, I expected to see that figure into it at least a little more prominently.
So, thanks for throwing that in there.
posted by one weird trick at 5:17 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
OK, might be a derail from the "is it racism" main event, but while we're on the subject of what shitbags NFL leaders are, I expected to see that figure into it at least a little more prominently.
So, thanks for throwing that in there.
posted by one weird trick at 5:17 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I like all the people saying "Kaep isn't a good QB" as justification for not picking him up. You know who else wasn't a good QB? Alex Smith before Jim Harbaugh. Or Kurt Warner when he was with the Giants. Or Trent Dilfer on any team.
Being a good QB in the NFL takes a combination of factors beyond any individual's control. Kaep has had seasons that show he can be great in the right environment. The 49ers of the last several years have not been that environment and laying that on Kaep's shoulders is unfair.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:23 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Being a good QB in the NFL takes a combination of factors beyond any individual's control. Kaep has had seasons that show he can be great in the right environment. The 49ers of the last several years have not been that environment and laying that on Kaep's shoulders is unfair.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:23 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
The question is why? 80% of the teams don't need him. Would he beat out Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Newton, Wilson, Winston, Smith, etc. Not very likely given he can barely beat out the 49ers backups. A few teams with slight interest Denver, Houston, Cleveland, all have answers in either developing players or have made trades to find one to learn the teams systems. Why pay starter money to a backup? If he was worth it to NFL teams, the NFL would find a roster spot, but he is not worth that at the moment.
posted by brent at 6:40 AM on March 28, 2017
posted by brent at 6:40 AM on March 28, 2017
Not very likely given he can barely beat out the 49ers backups.
The very fact that Kaepernick was once benched for Blaine Fucking Gabbert is proof that Kaepernick's poor performance in the last few years is probably due to the shitty 49ers upper management.
posted by muddgirl at 6:52 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
The very fact that Kaepernick was once benched for Blaine Fucking Gabbert is proof that Kaepernick's poor performance in the last few years is probably due to the shitty 49ers upper management.
posted by muddgirl at 6:52 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
The question is why? 80% of the teams don't need him.
Nine percent of teams have signed Mark Sanchez, EJ Manuel, and Geno Smith.
If he was worth it to NFL teams, the NFL would find a roster spot, but he is not worth that at the moment.
Yes, that's the problem. He's not worth it because of the politics, and yet everyone is desperate to find reasons that he's just not that good a QB.
posted by Etrigan at 7:15 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nine percent of teams have signed Mark Sanchez, EJ Manuel, and Geno Smith.
If he was worth it to NFL teams, the NFL would find a roster spot, but he is not worth that at the moment.
Yes, that's the problem. He's not worth it because of the politics, and yet everyone is desperate to find reasons that he's just not that good a QB.
posted by Etrigan at 7:15 AM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, that's the problem. He's not worth it because of the politics, and yet everyone is desperate to find reasons that he's just not that good a QB.
It's some of both.
posted by rocket88 at 8:17 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's some of both.
posted by rocket88 at 8:17 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well the fact that it's only like 30% because he's black and 30% because he's political makes me feel a whole lot better!
posted by muddgirl at 8:56 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 8:56 AM on March 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
See also: Chris Kluwe. Outspoken for gay rights. Got canned by Minnesota. Wrote a lengthy treatise/diatribe (linked, as well as lots of other media attention)
Claimed to be blackballed but got signed by the progressive Raiders. And was cut.
Guess what? He wasn't good enough at kicking the damn ball!
What is going on in the Raiders' kicking team that literally the fourth-ranked all-time Vikings kicker wasn't good enough?
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:42 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Claimed to be blackballed but got signed by the progressive Raiders. And was cut.
Guess what? He wasn't good enough at kicking the damn ball!
What is going on in the Raiders' kicking team that literally the fourth-ranked all-time Vikings kicker wasn't good enough?
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:42 AM on March 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Devil's advocating: He's a pretty bad QB at this point. While bad QBs do get paid to be backups, there are plenty of QBs at the talent level of Kaepernick to choose from who aren't as likely to make the head coach answer political questions at their press conferences. NFL teams want to run their operations without distractions. While that is an impossible goal, I can understand how they'd pass on signing Kaepernick, without saying that the content of his beliefs is why they don't sign him.
Of course, this does require that they believe that they can abstain from politics while still engaging in society.
posted by benbenson at 10:00 AM on March 28, 2017
Of course, this does require that they believe that they can abstain from politics while still engaging in society.
posted by benbenson at 10:00 AM on March 28, 2017
What is going on in the Raiders' kicking team that literally the fourth-ranked all-time Vikings kicker wasn't good enough?
Do yourself a favor and read up on Marquette King. Because he's fucking awesome with an awesome story to boot.
posted by Sphinx at 10:05 AM on March 28, 2017
Do yourself a favor and read up on Marquette King. Because he's fucking awesome with an awesome story to boot.
posted by Sphinx at 10:05 AM on March 28, 2017
What is going on in the Raiders' kicking team that literally the fourth-ranked all-time Vikings kicker wasn't good enough?
I'm not sure what that page was "ranking" them by, but Chris Kluwe holds eight Vikings punting records and is second on another six.
posted by Etrigan at 10:23 AM on March 28, 2017
I'm not sure what that page was "ranking" them by, but Chris Kluwe holds eight Vikings punting records and is second on another six.
posted by Etrigan at 10:23 AM on March 28, 2017
NFL teams want to run their operations without distractions.
This is exactly the same reasoning they used to use to keep black athletes out of professional sports (and also women out of the workplace and on and on).
Don't be the devil's advocate. He already has plenty of lawyers.
posted by srboisvert at 10:42 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is exactly the same reasoning they used to use to keep black athletes out of professional sports (and also women out of the workplace and on and on).
Don't be the devil's advocate. He already has plenty of lawyers.
posted by srboisvert at 10:42 AM on March 28, 2017 [7 favorites]
Chris Kluwe doesn't seem surprised that Marquette King took his job:
When I see him punt well, it’s easy to ask myself what in the hell I’m doing. He has a cannon for a leg, strength that I no longer have. We have evergreen trees here at our camp in Napa, and, depending where you stand on the field, you can see him punt the ball over the trees. When he hits a consistent set, I know I simply can’t match him anymore in terms of raw distance or hang time. Time catches up with all of us, eventually.posted by kevinbelt at 11:05 AM on March 28, 2017
Don't be the devil's advocate. He already has plenty of lawyers.
Well my post didn't end in "case closed, we can all go home." The question is, how do you encourage the adoption of your own socio-political values in private enterprise? If you want to find answers, you have to consider the mindset of the enterprise, to know how to change it.
posted by benbenson at 12:58 PM on March 28, 2017
Well my post didn't end in "case closed, we can all go home." The question is, how do you encourage the adoption of your own socio-political values in private enterprise? If you want to find answers, you have to consider the mindset of the enterprise, to know how to change it.
posted by benbenson at 12:58 PM on March 28, 2017
"It's worth noting that Davis was a petty, vindictive bastard as well as a civil rights pioneer."
Of course he was! Of course people such as Mandela, Clinton weren't angels either.
My point in the context of this thread is that the Raiders have a long history of welcoming outcasts. And Kluwe was given a chance and couldn't win a job as noted above (thanks guys!), and CK isn't worth a sniff.
Who wants a potential pain in the ass who really can't play very well? And has demonstrated himself to be an individualist? Unless a GM can be confident that the other 52 players on the roster will run through a wall for their QB, why take the chance of fucking team chemistry up when he isn't very good on the field?
posted by raider at 2:12 PM on March 28, 2017
Of course he was! Of course people such as Mandela, Clinton weren't angels either.
My point in the context of this thread is that the Raiders have a long history of welcoming outcasts. And Kluwe was given a chance and couldn't win a job as noted above (thanks guys!), and CK isn't worth a sniff.
Who wants a potential pain in the ass who really can't play very well? And has demonstrated himself to be an individualist? Unless a GM can be confident that the other 52 players on the roster will run through a wall for their QB, why take the chance of fucking team chemistry up when he isn't very good on the field?
posted by raider at 2:12 PM on March 28, 2017
Football is a tool in the Capitalism and Nationalism of America. Fighting it is fighting American identity. It's like attacking the government.
posted by JJ86 at 3:17 PM on March 28, 2017
posted by JJ86 at 3:17 PM on March 28, 2017
I see that it's been clarified in a comment, but Kluwe's a punter, not a kicker.
posted by wintermind at 4:13 PM on March 28, 2017
posted by wintermind at 4:13 PM on March 28, 2017
he was only a year and a half removed from winning a playoff game
Yeah, there's a huge gulf between "winning a single playoff game" and coming within minutes of winning a Superbowl, as Kaepernick did.
And when the Saints are openly considering Johnny Manziel--Johnny Fucking Maziel!--then it's a ludicrous blackballing going on. Manziel was A)a terrible pro football player; B)has no "character" (see: scandals for getting paid in college; abusing his girlfriend; bar fights, missing practices, and pouting, etc; and C)absolutely cannot control his addiction problem. And somehow he's still seen as a more viable candidate than Kaepernick? Not enough bullshit in the world for that one, NFL.
posted by TwoStride at 6:58 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, there's a huge gulf between "winning a single playoff game" and coming within minutes of winning a Superbowl, as Kaepernick did.
And when the Saints are openly considering Johnny Manziel--Johnny Fucking Maziel!--then it's a ludicrous blackballing going on. Manziel was A)a terrible pro football player; B)has no "character" (see: scandals for getting paid in college; abusing his girlfriend; bar fights, missing practices, and pouting, etc; and C)absolutely cannot control his addiction problem. And somehow he's still seen as a more viable candidate than Kaepernick? Not enough bullshit in the world for that one, NFL.
posted by TwoStride at 6:58 PM on March 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
NFL teams want to run their operations without distractions.
Shhh, don't tell this to the Cowboys, who are putting up with Ezekiel Elliot's criminal activities because the dude can run the ball, and who tolerated Greg Hardy until they basically thought he wasn't physically good enough anymore (but his outrageous assualts against his girlfriend were fine).
and also don't tell that to the DC team that a)tried to kill RGIII and keep trying to mess with Kirk Cousins; and b)most recently fired their GM on the first day of free agency because why not?
posted by TwoStride at 7:02 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Shhh, don't tell this to the Cowboys, who are putting up with Ezekiel Elliot's criminal activities because the dude can run the ball, and who tolerated Greg Hardy until they basically thought he wasn't physically good enough anymore (but his outrageous assualts against his girlfriend were fine).
and also don't tell that to the DC team that a)tried to kill RGIII and keep trying to mess with Kirk Cousins; and b)most recently fired their GM on the first day of free agency because why not?
posted by TwoStride at 7:02 PM on March 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
538 has a story on Kaepernick that's headlining the site.
Basically: yes, it really is unusual for a QB as good as Kaepernick to still be unsigned for this long. There aren't many good comps of good youngish QB's waiting this long.
I learned:
1. Blaine Gabbert's unsigned, too.
2. The longest a QB has had to wait since 2012 was Michael Vick in 2015, who waited much longer.
3. Kaepernick was better in the pocket than I realized. He's a little below average, but partly because his receivers had the highest drop rate in the league.
4. It's rare for a QB as good and young as he is to not get any snaps the next year. Usually it's due to injury (Bradford, Trent Green) or the USFL. Very rarely is a guy just benched--but it did happen to Steve Walsh. Twice.
The conclusions were:
1. Everybody is waiting on Tony Romo, and
2. Yes, it's unusual and suspicious that Kaepernick has had to wait this long.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:47 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Basically: yes, it really is unusual for a QB as good as Kaepernick to still be unsigned for this long. There aren't many good comps of good youngish QB's waiting this long.
I learned:
1. Blaine Gabbert's unsigned, too.
2. The longest a QB has had to wait since 2012 was Michael Vick in 2015, who waited much longer.
3. Kaepernick was better in the pocket than I realized. He's a little below average, but partly because his receivers had the highest drop rate in the league.
4. It's rare for a QB as good and young as he is to not get any snaps the next year. Usually it's due to injury (Bradford, Trent Green) or the USFL. Very rarely is a guy just benched--but it did happen to Steve Walsh. Twice.
The conclusions were:
1. Everybody is waiting on Tony Romo, and
2. Yes, it's unusual and suspicious that Kaepernick has had to wait this long.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:47 AM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
It seems to me like this boils down to quibbling about what it means to be black balled. If 1/3 of owners won't even consider Kaepernick because they strongly disagree with his politics, and 1/3 of owners won't consider him because they are worried about fan backlash, and 1/3 of orgs don't care about his politics but don't have a place for him on their team, then deniers can always point to that last third as evidence that Kaep just isn't good enough for the NFL, all stats to the contrary.
posted by muddgirl at 9:29 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 9:29 AM on March 30, 2017 [7 favorites]
SI Monday Morning Quarterback has a good article out today too.
And this 2016 article with anonymous quotes from NFL owners supposedly comparing Kaep with Rae Karruth, who conspired to murder his pregnant girlfriend, has been making the rounds the last few days.
posted by misskaz at 11:19 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
And this 2016 article with anonymous quotes from NFL owners supposedly comparing Kaep with Rae Karruth, who conspired to murder his pregnant girlfriend, has been making the rounds the last few days.
posted by misskaz at 11:19 AM on March 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's always kind of entertaining how even on metafilter, if you have a post that suggests that juuuust maaaaaybe professional sports and especially their ownership are heavily laced with racism, sexism, and homophobia and that influences how they treat various players, you can count on people explaining how it's simply because those players are worthless and it's merely the pure Rational Result. Particularly noticeable because we had the women's hockey post just recently as well.
posted by tavella at 2:54 PM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tavella at 2:54 PM on March 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's fandom for you, right? Uncritical acceptance of a team regardless of reality or performance?
posted by codacorolla at 3:33 PM on March 30, 2017
posted by codacorolla at 3:33 PM on March 30, 2017
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