Avengers Infinity War Trailer
November 29, 2017 6:11 AM   Subscribe

 
My most immediate reaction is that I approve of the Captain's beard. And I like the approach to Spider-Man's danger sense. But there's a lot of stuff in here to digest.
posted by Ipsifendus at 6:14 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


i still can't believe how much i'm into this, how i'm there for every bit and every joke. how i cared.

and i grew up on DC shows (couldn't afford regular comic-buying at imported prices). the only characters i knew were spidey and the x-men. JL should've been this.
posted by cendawanita at 6:14 AM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]


Every Superhero In The World versus Purple Bruce Willis (not final cg)
posted by dng at 6:16 AM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]


Cap and Thor look pretty good with bears and lend a certain weary maturity to the film. The tone is thankfully serious, with few jokes injected. Comedy is fine, but this movie sounds a bit grim in all the right ways, and it's good that's what's shown.

With so many characters in it, it'll be hard to give everyone good scenes or lines, but the Russo's have proven themselves to be very capable, so it should work out ok.

Plus there's the benefit of 10 years and upteen movies about these characters, so we know who they are and don't have to spend a lot of time discovering them. The stage has been set and we can just jump in with them. For example, the quick nod and smile between Bruce and Natasha speaks volumes based on previous movies.

I AM EXCITE.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:17 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


holy shit holy shit

Bucky with Wakandan warriors

"Get this man a shield" YES PLZ

oh hai GotG
posted by Kitteh at 6:18 AM on November 29, 2017 [15 favorites]


Ah, sweet Marvel -- opiate of our times.

Just hook it to my veins.
posted by Construction Concern at 6:23 AM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]


I am there for Beardo Dirtbag Cap. I am there. Why did Nick Spencer make him a Nazi when he could have made him a beardo dirtbag? Why?
posted by middleclasstool at 6:24 AM on November 29, 2017 [26 favorites]


Seeing Black Panther and two women, one of color, standing toe to toe (so to speak) with Cap speaks volumes. It looks like Marvel is going to do a great job with representation, finally.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 AM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


don't mind me i will just be screaming with joy for hours now

Also, quite glad that Thor is keeping the eyepatch. Short hair and eyepatch is hotter than both eyes and long hair.

Fight me
posted by Kitteh at 6:25 AM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]


::hyperventilates::
posted by Faintdreams at 6:28 AM on November 29, 2017


Oh man, if Marvel can pull off the SERIOUSLY EPIC feel, I imagine the poor editors on the DC movies getting whiplash as they suddenly have to remove all the jokes inserted in post to add in Meaningful Glances and Defiant Speeches.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:28 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


Plus there's the benefit of 10 years and upteen movies about these characters, so we know who they are

the poor editors on the DC movies

My brother quoted somebody on Thanksgiving, I'm not sure who, but the line was: "Everybody wants to make 'The Avengers', but nobody wants to have to make 'Iron Man 2' first."
posted by Ipsifendus at 6:32 AM on November 29, 2017 [55 favorites]


MAKE MINE MARVEL
posted by entropicamericana at 6:33 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


My nerdy parts are engorged and tingling!
posted by Ber at 6:33 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


So, a whole shit-ton of fighting? Got it.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:34 AM on November 29, 2017


I'm sorry, there's no Korg in this trailer.

Now. Get me Korg and beardy-Cap hanging out, and we can talk.
posted by Katemonkey at 6:36 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


Also:

Cap and Thor look pretty good with bears and lend a certain weary maturity to the film.

Where can I find this movie?

For reasons.
posted by Katemonkey at 6:37 AM on November 29, 2017 [40 favorites]


Cap and Thor look pretty good with bears

A bear makes anyone look cool.
posted by Naberius at 6:38 AM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


I dunno. I've found the Marvel movies dramatically less interesting as they've thrown character after character into them. The big-crowd movies just seem to devolve into an endless series of introductions -- now here's This Guy and we'll pause while you cheer -- and what I assume are little fanservice moments for each of them but I don't read the comics so I assume I'm missing something, with almost no room for anything interesting to happen to the characters or even much of a plot.

I just hope whatever happens in this movie or pair-of-movies sets up things well for the next set of more interesting single-character and small-group movies/shows, like the first Avengers movie did.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:39 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


*fans self*
posted by RhysPenbras at 6:43 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


So, a whole shit-ton of fighting? Got it.

This may be a great movie and it may be a dumb movie, but criticizing a superhero movie for having a bunch of fights in it is like criticizing a western for having a bunch of horses in it. It's sort of what they do.

Now. Get me Korg and beardy-Cap hanging out, and we can talk.

Oh, god, they could travel the country in an old pickup, solving mysteries and finding the Real America
posted by middleclasstool at 6:44 AM on November 29, 2017 [38 favorites]


listen if this doesn't feature a 15 minute soliloquy of thanos desperately pleading for the romantic attentions of Death i'm asking for my money back
posted by murphy slaw at 6:45 AM on November 29, 2017 [27 favorites]


OOooh, excited. I keep waiting for the MCU bubble to burst for me, and I'm shocked and impressed the whole thing just hasn't crumbled and fallen to the ground, dragged under by the sheer weight of characters and comic book plot.

It's funny, because I think the Justice League trailer was probably better - this particular trailer is mostly shots of characters staring wide-eyed up at the sky in horror/awe paired with fairly bland, portentous dialogue - but Marvel has done the work of establishing each of those characters leading up to this movie so it actually WORKS. I can't wait for Thor to run into the Guardians of the Galaxy crew, I can't wait for Spiderman in his revved-up suit to be fighting giant alien ship-rings-in-the-sky, I can't wait for Black Panther and his badass crew of ladies, I can't wait for Cap in his scruffed-up-dirty-man-bearded stage, hells yes to all of it.
posted by blithers at 6:49 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


And just who are those guys?!! I'm sold, might even need to see this one in a theater.
posted by sammyo at 6:50 AM on November 29, 2017


On the one hand, if they want me to get excited, they probably shouldn't do a villain monologue over the trailer and remind me how bad AoU was. On the other hand, BUCKYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
posted by merriment at 6:52 AM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


also my headcanon is that they asked chris evans to shave and he told them to fuck off
posted by murphy slaw at 6:52 AM on November 29, 2017 [18 favorites]


That shot of Vision without pink skin, I'm guessing that's to be a dream sequence? A sort of "what-if" shot? What Vision fantasizes about before Thanos rips the infinity stone out of his forehead?
posted by pwinn at 6:52 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]




I'm mostly here for Cap, Panther and Guardians. This looks fun.

But I'm also getting burnt out on comic book movies where angry screaming people run towards each other.

I guess this is how all wars are fought. But I feels repetitive, on a cinematic level.
posted by Fizz at 6:53 AM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yeah, I was reading that it will be soon time to send a lot of those characters to the Avengers Retirement Home. I mean, the first Iron Man movie will have been ten years ago by the time this drops. I'm wondering if it's half the need for new blood and half the actors just, well, getting older. It will be interesting to see who stays (alive) and who goes (ends up dead, though dead never seems quite dead in a comic book universe).

I can't find it now, but someone online snarked, "Marvel could have charged for this trailer and it would have still made more money than Justice League."
posted by Kitteh at 6:57 AM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]


Thor was the only Marvel film that I've found satisfying in a long time, but this one won't have Taika Waititi directing so I don't have too high expectations of it. I know that a lot of people liked the Russo Brothers' Captain America but that film left me pretty flat. I usually hate the third-act CGI battles in this films but the ending fight in a parking lot was so terrible in that film that I left the theater almost angry.
posted by octothorpe at 6:57 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


If Hemsworth can cut his hair I get to grow my beard back and I get to tell Pratt he's gotta grow a 'stache!

Fun fact, Chris Evans has his hand over his face during the first film's schwarma scene because it was a reshoot and he had a beard for another role.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:58 AM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


And that hand over the face was still better CGI than DC did to hide Henry Cavrill's mustache!
posted by FritoKAL at 7:07 AM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]


Marvel is 16 movies deep into a cinematic universe that has an average Rotten Tomatoes score of 88.25.

DC's Universe is five movies in with an average RT score of 48.2, with only one movie (Wonder Woman) certified fresh.

As someone who grew up a DC person and would still love to see a Titans movie (among others), this is a bit of a bummer.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:08 AM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


Now I'm interested in an Avengers movie where they're all bears.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:14 AM on November 29, 2017 [21 favorites]


^ ME TOO
posted by RhysPenbras at 7:15 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


MCU Now Has 7,000 Characters, Giving Marvel Endless Possibilities

Just a matter of time until we get a Turner D. Century film trilogy.
posted by Iridic at 7:19 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


BEVENGERS BUNCH UP!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:20 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


On the Infinity War IMDB page, you have to hit "Full Cast and Crew" to even see Chris Evans' name! The spillover at that Full Cast link, instead of the usual "John Waitstables, playing Background Mook #5", now starts with a whole page full of Gwyneth Paltrows and Vin Diesels...
posted by roystgnr at 7:24 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


MORE GAMORA. that is all.

no wait

MORE GAMORA
posted by sciatrix at 7:38 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


I swear to dog I just rewatched the whole damned trailer SEARCHING FOR BEARS!

Screw you guys. Seriously.



not seriously


bears naow plz

posted by blurker at 7:40 AM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


UGH Loki AGAIN??
posted by orrnyereg at 7:42 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]




Why do advanced beings from outer space always attack Earth with fists and knives?
posted by Popular Ethics at 7:48 AM on November 29, 2017


they lost their luggage in transit
posted by cendawanita at 7:50 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


Why do advanced beings from outer space always attack Earth with fists and knives?

Do you mean other than the aliens in the first Avengers who flew in on hover thingies and shot energy weapons?
posted by Fleebnork at 7:52 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


I could do with a little more character interaction and a little less "moping about against a background of fire," but that may just be me. HoboCap is a pretty good Cap, to be sure.

Marvel has 20 movies planned for Phase 4 already. Marvel, if you're listening, here is how to make even more money than you already are:
- Squirrel Girl
- Aisha Tyler IS Jennifer Walters as She-Hulk
- Paget Brewster IS Hawkeye, because we all know Renner as Clint is a pretender to the Kate Bishop throne
- the aforementioned Korg and HoboCap recreating "Highway to Heaven" but with more shield and punching
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:59 AM on November 29, 2017 [21 favorites]


The 12 year old Merry Marvel Marching Society and True Believer inside me is RUNNING IN CIRCLES AND HOOTING "EXCELSIOR!" FOR JOY BECAUSE.
I know there's going to be death and changes before Phase 4, but man, Phases 1, 2 and 3 have been fucking amazing for Marvel fanboys such as myself.
Excited for pretty much everything.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 8:06 AM on November 29, 2017


Now I'm interested in an Avengers movie where they're all bears.

There's that wacky Russian superhero film coming out this year that has...

An actual werebear.

Who uses a minigun.
posted by Samizdata at 8:06 AM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]


I just know Infinity War is going to fail to deliver on the ONE THING I WANT, which is Steve and Bucky TO GODDAMNED HUG ALREADY, or, failing that, to have just one (1) meaningful emotional moment together (that is NOT EITHER OF THEM DYING THANK YOU), at least one (1) minute long in length.

Anyway, this trailer got me way more excited than expected, even if Thanos looks ridiculous.
posted by yasaman at 8:07 AM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]


"Paget Brewster IS Hawkeye"

I don't know who she is, had to look her up. I thought Kate Bishop was a teen, and Paget Brewster is not, and yet I still do not care. I still agree with this bullet point, as well as all your others, and I'll throw in a Kamala Khan for good measure. It astounds me that the studio heads don't see this as printing money.
posted by komara at 8:08 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


There's that wacky Russian superhero film coming out this year that has...

An actual werebear.


Oh, that's already out on DVD and streaming services, is called Guardians, and is even more ridiculous than what you are already imagining.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:08 AM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


(Just because you all are saying I am lying just to break your hearts, it is called Guardians.

As further proof, here's a trailer...)
posted by Samizdata at 8:08 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


I usually hate the third-act CGI battles in this films but the ending fight in a parking lot was so terrible in that film that I left the theater almost angry.

Maybe you left the film early? Because that wasn't the ending fight. A whole bunch of other stuff happens afterwards and the final fight is a much smaller scale affair between Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man.
posted by jonnyploy at 8:08 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


My body is ready.

And to add onto fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit's fin e list above, let's have:

- Nova, but not as a young white dude. We've had enough of those.

- Pull together a team that's not unlike Al Ewing's Mighty Avengers. You could also add on Jessica Jones and give MCU Trish Walker a Hellcat costume already, sheesh. Call it the Mighty Avengers or the New Defenders or whatever, I don't really care. It's just an awesome idea and, oh yeah, an opportunity to recast and refurbish Iron Fist.

- Speaking of recasting and refurbishing, let's have some Inhumans that are as loosely tied to the failed series as possible. A great opportunity to bring in Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl while we're at it.

- Donald Glover as the Prowler plzkthxbai.

Also, I'm pretty sure (based just on the trailer) that that Russian super-team with the werebear is probably just the Soviet Super-Soldiers with a few swap-outs. Because werebear.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:14 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


Maybe you left the film early? Because that wasn't the ending fight.

It was not the ending fight, but it still looked like a budget 2nd unit shoot on a Disney backlot.
posted by rocketman at 8:15 AM on November 29, 2017


Squirrel Girl

There's a New Warriors series coming out, and Doreen has already been cast.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:16 AM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh, and of course: Machine Man. Make it so, fleshy ones.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:16 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


jonnyploy: "I usually hate the third-act CGI battles in this films but the ending fight in a parking lot was so terrible in that film that I left the theater almost angry.

Maybe you left the film early? Because that wasn't the ending fight. A whole bunch of other stuff happens afterwards and the final fight is a much smaller scale affair between Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man.
"

I probably just zoned out after that.
posted by octothorpe at 8:17 AM on November 29, 2017


- Paget Brewster IS Hawkeye, because we all know Renner as Clint is a pretender to the Kate Bishop throne

um yes, give this to me right now

right now immediately
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


Big alien dude coming through a portal to collect power macguffins to rule the something something...

What movie is this again?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:40 AM on November 29, 2017


Big alien dude coming through a portal to collect power macguffins to rule the something something...

What movie is this again?


All of them, at least for the foreseeable future.
posted by Fizz at 8:47 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


Holy crap that is a lot of characters I'm already interested in. I felt like George Pérez should be drawing those scenes.

I dunno. I've found the Marvel movies dramatically less interesting as they've thrown character after character into them. The big-crowd movies just seem to devolve into an endless series of introductions -- now here's This Guy and we'll pause while you cheer --

Yeah, the whole point of an Avengers movie is that you already know all the characters and just want to have fun seeing them all smashed together in one huge, ridiculous movie that, as roystgnr points out above, has so many stars Chris Evans doesn't even make the front page of the IMDB listing.

If the idea of Tony Stark and Stephen Strange trying to out-dick each other (after Strange won the Loki/Strange bracket, winner goes on to challenge Star Lord) doesn't put a smile on your face, there are approximately 1 billion people who would be happy to take your seat instead.

Characterization in an Avengers movie is the Hulkbuster suit jackhammer punching the Hulk in the face 9 times/second, demonstrating that Bruce helped design the thing and hates the Hulk more than anyone else in the world. Age of Ultron was a mess as a movie, but just fine as an Avengers chapter in this crazy crossover Marvel has been publishing for the last ten years.

Marvel knows that 40% of the fun of comic books is the last page where a familiar face steps out of the shadows and makes you say "That guy!" or the door opens on an unfamiliar one and she says, "Face it Tiger, you just hit the jackpot!" And Infinity War looks to be full of it. It's all about the strengths of serial storytelling, not normal self-contained movies.
posted by straight at 8:50 AM on November 29, 2017 [15 favorites]


The only Marvel movie I want is just Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin giving soliloquies for two hours. And maybe making breakfast. Please give me that.
posted by misterpatrick at 9:00 AM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


Avengers 4: The Salute
a three-hour long Busby Berkeley tribute starring all your favorite heroes
with signing and dancing and elaborate choreography and synchronized water routines
posted by kokaku at 9:00 AM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'd love a proper Squirrel girl movie.

I'd also love a she-hulk movie which features literally zero super heroics and it's just a tense court room drama.

Also when it's time to get rid of Tony Stark / RDJ (or anyone else) comics have got you covered!
Riri Williams for Iron Man.
Jane Foster (but preferably recast?) as Thor.
Miles Morales as Spidey.

STORIES.FOR.YEARS!
(also a proper black widow spy movie please)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:02 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


and i grew up on DC shows (couldn't afford regular comic-buying at imported prices). the only characters i knew were spidey and the x-men. JL should've been this.

DC never has, and never will recover from the loss of Dwayne McDuffie.

/me mic-drop
posted by mikelieman at 9:02 AM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]


(also a proper black widow spy movie please)

I have just accepted in my heart that the Black Widow movie is called Atomic Blonde and BW was recast. It was good, it was fine, I'll take it. (And twelve sequels, please.)
posted by restless_nomad at 9:03 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


< derail >OMG SQUIRREL GIRL IS LILY FROM THE AT&T COMMERCIALS< /derail >

This movie looks Very Exciting and I can't wait to put it into my eye holes.
posted by hanov3r at 9:16 AM on November 29, 2017


For the completists (and for people who, while they may be fans, have missed things here and there for any number of reasons).

IN-UNIVERSE CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER:

PHASE 1


1. Captain America: The First Avenger
2. Agent Carter (season 1)
3. Agent Carter (season 2)
4. Agent Carter (one-shot on Iron Man 3 DVD)
5. Iron Man
6. Iron Man 2
7. The Incredible Hulk
8. The Consultant (one-shot on the Thor DVD)
9. A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer (one-shot on the Captain America: The First Avenger DVD)
10. Thor
11. Avengers Assemble
12. Item 47 (one-shot on the Avengers Assemble DVD)

PHASE 2

13. Iron Man 3
14. All Hail the King (one-shot on the Thor: The Dark World DVD)
15. Agents of SHIELD (season 1, eps 1-7)
16. Thor: The Dark World
17. Agents of SHIELD (season 1, eps 8-16)
18. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
19. Agents of SHIELD (season 1, eps 17-22)
20. Guardians of the Galaxy
21. Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2
22. Daredevil (season 1)
23. Agents of SHIELD (season 2, eps 1-10)
24. Jessica Jones (season 1)
25. Agents of SHIELD (season 2, eps 11-19)
26.Avengers: Age of Ultron
27. Agents of SHIELD (season 2, eps 20-22)
28. Daredevil (season 2, eps 1-4)
29. Luke Cage (season 1, eps 1-4)
30. Daredevil (season 2, eps 5-11)
31. Luke Cage (season 1, eps 5-8)
32. Daredevil (season 2, eps 12-13)
33. Luke Cage (season 1, eps 9-13)
34. Ant-Man
35. Agents of SHIELD (season 3, eps 1-10)

PHASE 3

36. Agents of SHIELD (season 3, eps 11-19)
37. Iron Fist (season 1)
38.Captain America: Civil War
39.Agents of SHIELD (season 3, eps 20-22)
40. The Defenders (season 1)
41. The Punisher (season 1)
41. Agents of SHIELD (season 4, eps 1-6)
42. Doctor Strange
43. Agents of SHIELD (season 4, eps 7-8)
44. Agents of SHIELD: Slingshot (season 1, eps 1-6)
45. Agents of SHIELD (season 4, eps 9-22)
46. Spider-Man: Homecoming
47. Thor: Ragnarok (concurrent with Spider-Man: Homecoming)
48. Inhumans (season 1)

UPCOMING (in-universe chronology not always known/unclear)

Runaways (season 1) - November 21, 2017 (on Hulu)
Agents of SHIELD (season 5) - January 2018 (on ABC)
Black Panther - February 16, 2018
Avengers: Infinity War - May 4, 2018
Cloak and Dagger (season 1) - 2018 (on Freeform)
Ant Man and the Wasp - July 6, 2018
Jessica Jones (season 2) - 2018 (on Netflix)
Daredevil (season 3) - TBA (on Netflix)
Luke Cage (season 2) - TBA (on Netflix)
Iron Fist (season 2) - TBA (on Netflix)
Captain Marvel - March 8, 2019
Untitled Avengers film - May 3, 2019
Untitled Spider-Man sequel - July 5, 2019
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 - TBA

[source]
posted by tzikeh at 9:25 AM on November 29, 2017 [30 favorites]


While it's sorta-possible Thanos needs vibranium for some reason (it would be a good choice for what the gauntlet itself is made of, but he already has one--it's very nice), I'd say this trailer confirms that Wakanda has the Soul Stone. Which probably can sorta fit with T'Challa's link to his ancestors, but starts to make the Earth-Infinity Stone links kinda ridiculous. THREE of them were hiding on Earth before the Space Stone went back to Asgard after the Chitauri invasion? (And Loki dropped a FOURTH one here in Thanos's failed attempt to use Loki to get the other ones.)

(Also, we have 20th Century Fox to thank, not only for forcing Marvel to dig deeper into it's bench for characters like Iron Man, Thor, and Guardians of the Galaxy, but for giving vibranium (and thus Wakanda) the prominence that might otherwise have gone to adamantium. In a world where Marvel still has rights to the X-Men, movie Captain America's shield is for sure adamantium rather than introducing yet another miracle metal, if we get movie Captain America at all.)
posted by straight at 9:27 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


The only Marvel movie I want is just Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin giving soliloquies for two hours. And maybe making breakfast. Please give me that.

And making

pauses

tortured pauses


Vanessa

I am so



sorry
posted by middleclasstool at 9:38 AM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]


Also once you see the structure in the Auralnauts' How To Make A Blockbuster Movie Trailer, you see it underlying everything.

ALL THE VFX
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:48 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


But, D'Onofrio's already been Thor.
posted by hanov3r at 9:49 AM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


grimy embittered steve is best steve
posted by poffin boffin at 9:51 AM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


I've pretty much lost the thread with the Marvel Netflix shows, and with "Agents of SHIELD", but I still think it would be awesome if those characters were to appear even as cameos. Like, during the climactic scene that keeps cutting from New York to Wakanda to space and back again, you get scenes of Jessica Jones pulling people out of car wrecks, Ghost Rider running his car up a ramp and onto the top of one of Thanos' minions, or something.
posted by Ipsifendus at 10:02 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm at work and have to be composed, but after watching that internally I'm all "AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!" right now. Holy heck, I can't wait to share this with my husband.
posted by sharp pointy objects at 10:09 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


Cap and Thor look pretty good with bears

Paging MeFi's own The Whelk for a spec script!
posted by Ber at 10:16 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


Some part of me was hoping that there would be a MCU Fantastic Four film before the Infinity War started. I was never a big fan of the comic, but they're so central to the Marvel universe it's just a shame that the studios couldn't work something out. Assholes.
posted by homunculus at 10:22 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


If the idea of Tony Stark and Stephen Strange trying to out-dick each other (after Strange won the Loki/Strange bracket, winner goes on to challenge Star Lord)

I laughed so hard I started coughing at my desk.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:23 AM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


I've pretty much lost the thread with the Marvel Netflix shows, and with "Agents of SHIELD", but I still think it would be awesome if those characters were to appear even as cameos.

Agreed! They really should have some of them in the film, even if they're just cameos. The MCU is dropping the ball on continuity by keeping their properties seperated, imo.
posted by homunculus at 10:24 AM on November 29, 2017


grimy embittered steve is best steve

perhaps not the steve america deserves but by god the one we need
posted by sciatrix at 10:31 AM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]


Anyway, this trailer got me way more excited than expected, even if Thanos looks ridiculous.

Thanos definitely looks better wearing his angry eyebrows helmet the way Jim Starlin intended.
posted by straight at 10:31 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


(america deserves no steves. none.

thank god we're getting one anyway.)
posted by sciatrix at 10:32 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


Agreed! They really should have some of them in the film, even if they're just cameos. The MCU is dropping the ball on continuity by keeping their properties seperated, imo.

I will never, for the life of me, never understand Marvel and Feige's decision to make the MTVU and the MCU separate. I would pay damn good money for some Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage in some of these movies, especially next to our new Spider-Man.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 10:34 AM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


listen if this doesn't feature a 15 minute soliloquy of thanos desperately pleading for the romantic attentions of Death i'm asking for my money back

I had high hopes that Ragnarok was setting up Hela to take the role of putting Thanos in the friendzone so hard he kills half the living things in the entire universe because then she'll have to talk to him, right?

But it doesn't look like they went that way. I'll bet Whedon would've done it.
posted by straight at 10:36 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


(also a proper black widow spy movie please)

An Alan Furst style meditation on the inherent brutality of using people as chess pieces.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:37 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


I will never, for the life of me, never understand Marvel and Feige's decision to make the MTVU and the MCU separate. I would pay damn good money for some Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage in some of these movies, especially next to our new Spider-Man.

He had no way of knowing ahead of time that they wouldn't all turn out as terrible as Iron Fist. But not casting Mike Colter as Luke Cage in an Avengers movie after RDJ and Chris Evans retire would be dumber than not getting Grant Gustin to be your Flash in the Justice League movie.
posted by straight at 10:41 AM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


Cap and Thor look pretty good with bears

The Winter Soldier also looks pretty good with a bear. MARVEL, YOU COWARDS, GIVE US A FLASHBACK WHERE SHIRTLESS SEBASTIAN STAN FIGHTS A BEAR IN A GULAG.

by god if i can't have a genuine, heartwrenching and cathartic moment of bucky barnes reckoning with and recovering from being made into the Winter Soldier, then i at least want to see him fighting a giant bear with his robot arm.
posted by yasaman at 10:48 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]



Big alien dude coming through a portal to collect power macguffins to rule the something something...

What movie is this again?


An adaptation of a Marvel comic from 1991
, with the MacGuffins dating back to comics in the seventies. Of course, Jack Kirby's Fourth World predates even that, but Darkseid's ultimate goal was always the Anti-Life Equation. Mother Boxes were just used, in different forms and variations, by both sides as all-purpose tools; in Justice League, New Genesis isn't even mentioned, and only Victor Stone's father seems to realize that the thing has potential for doing more than ending the world. The MCU has made much better use of the Infinity Stones.

Some part of me was hoping that there would be a MCU Fantastic Four film before the Infinity War started. I was never a big fan of the comic, but they're so central to the Marvel universe it's just a shame that the studios couldn't work something out.

It's worth remembering the history of Marvel at the movies, and how long it took them to put out something worth watching, even with another studio producing. This was the sort of crap that they'd previously done, all of six years before X-Men. And the more money that Fox loses by making more crap like their latest attempt at an FF movie, paradoxically the less likely it is that they'll want to hand the property back to Marvel/Disney and watch them spin another billion-dollar subfranchise out of it.

(america deserves no steves. none.

thank god we're getting one anyway.)


Not the hero that America deserves, but the one that it needs right now, to coin a phrase?
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:53 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


Tony Stark is going to diiiiie and my body is ready for Robert Downey Jr to act his soul off but my heart is not ready

In 2008 I refused to go see Iron Man in its first theater run because I hated the comics Tony Stark character so much and in 2018 movie Tony's death is going to break my heart in slow motion into tiny jagged fragments
posted by nicebookrack at 10:55 AM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]


even if Thanos looks ridiculous

he looks like a big angry toe
posted by poffin boffin at 10:58 AM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]


I hope Fantastic Four is never remade and never becomes a Marvel property.

The movies have done great without them and there's literally zero need to put them in anything, without some serious rejiggering of the characters.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:05 AM on November 29, 2017


Thought it would be nice to have Doctor Doom around to fill out the villain bench.
posted by Iridic at 11:08 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


Marvel may take back Sue & Johnny Storm and the ever-lovin' blue-eyed Thing as long as Fox keeps Mister Fantastic, because Reed Richards is the wooooooorst

The MCU is full up with stretchy people (future Kamala Khan) and brainiac scientists (EVERYONE), we don't need any. MCU Sue Storm/Namor 4 eva.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:11 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


In 202X I refused to go see Fantastic Four MCU Reboot in its first theater run because I hated the comics Reed Richards character so much and in 203X I will be waving my "Team Doom" flag because Reed Richards will still be the wooooorst
posted by nicebookrack at 11:15 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


I kind of want them to do Fantastic 4 as an HBO series, set in the 60s, as close to the original as possible, colour-graded to look like Eastmancolor.
posted by Grangousier at 11:17 AM on November 29, 2017 [15 favorites]


I hope Fantastic Four is never remade and never becomes a Marvel property.

What if I told you the Fantastic Four cameo in Black Panther 3: Wakanda vs. Atlantis is as much better than the Fox Fantastic Four movies as Tom Holland's Civil War Spider-Man was better than the Andrew Garfield Amazing Spider-Man movies?
posted by straight at 11:18 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


the most difficult thing about properly translating DOCTOR DOOM to the screen will be finding an actor who can speak in all capitals.
posted by entropicamericana at 11:20 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


(bonus geek fun: the security guard talking to Doom is Steve Rogers in disguise)
posted by nicebookrack at 11:23 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


No wait, it's gotta be Black Panther 3: Latveria vs. Atlantis with T'Challa trying to prevent a war between Doom and Namor.
posted by straight at 11:24 AM on November 29, 2017


an actor who can speak in all capitals

brian blessed
posted by poffin boffin at 11:25 AM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]


My first thought was Billy Eichner and now I will never look at Doom the same way again.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:27 AM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


I can't wait to start the clash of MCU Namor vs DCEU Aquaman in the movie war of sexy underwater royal fish-men.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:29 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's a very brief shot, but I liked seeing the lineup of Wakandans behind the Black Panther, and seeing Bucky and Steve just mixed in with them in the second row rather than being put front and center. Nothing will please me more than if they set up the various (white) Avengers to be either assisting the Wakandans, or even asking for their help, not there as leaders. Fingers crossed, but the Wakandans appear very much in charge in these brief glimpses, as they should.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 11:33 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


What if I told you the Fantastic Four cameo in Black Panther 3: Wakanda vs. Atlantis is as much better than the Fox Fantastic Four movies as Tom Holland's Civil War Spider-Man was better than the Andrew Garfield Amazing Spider-Man movies?

I don't care, still don't want the FF in any movie, unless they add a person of color and/or maybe swapped some genders around. Miss Fantastic? YOU BET. A hispanic guy as The Thing? SURE. Aisha Tyler as She-Hulk, replacing Invisible Woman, doting wife of Mr Fantastic? I'M THERE.

But as it is now FF ticks too many old tropes from the 50s/60s for me to view them as anything worthy of screen times. I know, I know, someone is gonna mention Doctor Doom. He's ridiculous and the comic version won't translate well to the screen without some serious revamping and that point, it's not really Doctor D, so he's not needed.

Every day that FF isn't a viable film property is another chance, however small, for a newer, better Marvel property to reach the screen. I'm all for that.

Caveat#1: a retro FF with Kirbyesque images could be interesting. Especially if the entire team dies in the end.

Caveat#2: It's the scenario in the quoted sentence happened, I'd go see an FF film and probably enjoy it, but I'd grumble about the idea of the FF until I saw it, lol.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:33 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


the most difficult thing about properly translating DOCTOR DOOM to the screen will be finding an actor who can speak in all capitals.

Daniel Day-Lewis, if you could lure him out of retirement, would make a stormy, majestic Doom. (There is some danger he might insist on actually ruling a land-locked European monarchy in order to get into character.)
posted by Iridic at 11:35 AM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


Now I need Billy Eichner as Craig Middlebrook as Doctor Doom.

"Fools! Follow Doom! I AM DISTRAUGHT!!!!"
posted by Kitteh at 11:39 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


Gilbert Gottfried speaks in all capitals too.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:41 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


Cap and Thor look pretty good with bears...

bears naow plz...


Excelsior.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:48 AM on November 29, 2017 [15 favorites]


Gilbert Gottfried speaks in all capitals too.

Yeah, but it's comic sans capitals.
posted by peeedro at 11:51 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


the one good idea that creep harry knowles ever had was a FF adaptation in the style of Down With Love set in the early 1960s
posted by entropicamericana at 11:52 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


I want Clancy Brown to be the voice of Doctor Doom, Darth Vader style. Who cares if he's already an MCU character? That guy's got a voice and a half.

Also, Hodgman for MODOK.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 11:57 AM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


ONE THING I WANT, which is Steve and Bucky TO GODDAMNED HUG ALREADY, or, failing that, to have just one (1) meaningful emotional moment together (that is NOT EITHER OF THEM DYING THANK YOU), at least one (1) minute long in length.

I find the Bucky/Steve relationship actually really well handled across Winter Soldier and Civil War; these are two guys who grew up in the 1930s and fought in WWII finding themselves on the other side of 70 years of history. On top of their own personal traumas, they've got a bunch of cultural shit to deal with in terms of how male affection can be expressed now that couldn't in their day. They don't have the language to do it; for all that Cap is trying to catch up on the stuff he's missed, that is something he hasn't and may never figure out.

I mean, I get what you are saying - I want that moment of honest, open affection, but I'm really liking how it is there in ways that aren't all that open. It's in Steve letting Bucky beat his face in at the end of WS and Bucky dragging the unconscious Cap back to shore; it's in Bucky's smirk and eyeroll when Steve finally kisses Sharon in Civil War; it's Steve standing against the world to protect Bucky. That is how these men are going to show it.
posted by nubs at 12:02 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


Pretty sure I've suggested this before but...
2 hour long movie, Steve Rogers comes to terms with his deep-seated 1940's upbringing internalised homophobia.

It's a long emotional drawn out will they won't they romance which ends in Steve marrying Sam Wilson (or I guess bucky, if you must).
No one fights anyone.*
Captain America Civil Union.

*Yes I know this is at least the second marvel pitch where no one fights anyone, but that's what I want dammit!
Stark, at home solving a tricky engineering problem. No one fights.
Spiderman trying to make it as a photojournalist no one fights.
Matt Murdoch tv show where he never dresses as daredevil and just does courtcases. No one fights.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 12:08 PM on November 29, 2017 [19 favorites]


I hope Disney's purchase of FOX's film and TV properties works out so that a new take on the X-Men can anchor one of the later phases.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:15 PM on November 29, 2017


Shipping Bucky and Cap is so phase 2. We all know the last installment is going to be a romcom/final conflict with Thanos and titled Avengers: Adam* and Steve

*Warlock
posted by cmfletcher at 12:15 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


VISION!!!! NOOOOOOooooooooo!!!!
posted by NoMich at 12:19 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


Fantastic Four: old and busted

FF (Ant-Man, She-Hulk, Medusa, Miss Thing): new hotness

(Though let's either replace or recast Medusa to bid TV Inhumans a merciful swift death.)
posted by nicebookrack at 12:23 PM on November 29, 2017


Now. Get me Korg and beardy-Cap hanging out, and we can talk.

Oh, god, they could travel the country in an old pickup, solving mysteries and finding the Real America


A similar set-up was my idea for a late-aughts Fantastic Four sequel, with Chiklis and Evans reprising their roles as Ben and Johnny. They're traveling in a specially-reinforced bus, which breaks down in a small town; waiting on repairs, Johnny enjoys a Footloose-esque romance and nearly loses his temper with a jealous townie in a BAR full of ALCOHOL, while Ben re-examines his faith in a series of conversations with a blind rabbi.

Usually I take a pass on the cavalcade of superheroes installments (the infighting, the lack of character development), but this looks good.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:23 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


No love for the apparently enthickened Iron Man?
Tony Starker?
Iron Man XV: The Enthickening?

Looks great. I approve of thick exoskeletons.
posted by chavenet at 12:27 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


I get what you're saying, and I agree nubs, I love that Steve can't even wholly say what Bucky means to him, instead saying shit like "even when I had nothing, I had Bucky." These two are big gestures dudes, like saving each others' lives and holding onto helicopters and enduring horrible things. They're not gonna have a forthright conversation, probably, instead saying something gruff but fraught like "I'm with you to the end of the line" while making meaningful eye contact, and whatever, I'm good with that.

But they hugged in Cap 1 before Bucky shipped out! It's not that they don't hug! They've been reunited after DEATH and TORTURE and FREEZING and goddammit if you can't hug your BFF then, then WHEN CAN YOU. Marvel, let them hug for god's sake.
posted by yasaman at 12:37 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


Also, Hodgman for MODOK.

Season 4 of "Agents of SHIELD," which was better than we humans deserve, produced a surprisingly decent MODOK with Ivanov the deadpan Russian multibodied cyborg "designed only for killing."
posted by nicebookrack at 12:55 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


But they hugged in Cap 1 before Bucky shipped out! It's not that they don't hug! They've been reunited after DEATH and TORTURE and FREEZING and goddammit if you can't hug your BFF then, then WHEN CAN YOU.

I think it's Bucky, in all honesty. I don't think he knows how to cope with the Steve he knew (little, asthmatic Steve who he always needed to rescue) and with Steve Rogers, Captain America who has saved him twice from his various captors. Bucky's having trouble reconciling the two emotionally.
posted by nubs at 12:57 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


How much would Drax enjoy watching Hulk smash his way through a bunch of minions and punch Thanos in the face? Possibly more than I would enjoy watching Drax watch that?
posted by straight at 1:01 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


"Bucky reconciling the two emotionally" plus "Stucky hugs" have produced like 75% of the best epic fanfic on AO3. (I'm ride or die for Out of the Dead Land)
posted by nicebookrack at 1:01 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


The LEGO Marvel video game has every single character without any bullshit about "The FF belong to one studio and Spider-Man to another so they can never meet."

It is worth checking out for a couple of reasons:
- it has almost EVERYONE in it (Fantastic Four, Avengers, Spider-Man, X-Men, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool)
- it's super-fun
- T'Challa asks you to hunt for his pet cat, who is dressed like Captain America
- a LEGO MODOK
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:02 PM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


Hodgman for MODOK.

The best of all MODOKs would be Rainn Wilson as Dwight Schrute as MODOK. Tell me that you don't see it now.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:02 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]


How much would Gamora and Natasha enjoy their simultaneous eye-roll as they listen to Stark and Quill try to out-banter each other? Maybe even more than Rocket would enjoy watching Loki try to decide if Spider-Man or Teen-Groot is more annoying?
posted by straight at 1:10 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


Paul F. Tompkins as Turner D. Century!
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 1:21 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


How much would Drax enjoy watching Hulk smash his way through a bunch of minions and punch Thanos in the face? Possibly more than I would enjoy watching Drax watch that?

How much would Gamora and Natasha enjoy their simultaneous eye-roll as they listen to Stark and Quill try to out-banter each other? Maybe even more than Rocket would enjoy watching Loki try to decide if Spider-Man or Teen-Groot is more annoying?


I'm hoping for a scene with Rocket and Tony trying to out-tinker each other, with Rocket winning. I want to see the look on Stark's face as he realizes that he's been outperformed by a bipedal raccoon.
posted by homunculus at 1:47 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


Paul F. Tompkins as Turner D. Century!

David S. Pumpkins as himself.
posted by homunculus at 1:48 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


I want to see the look on Stark's face as he realizes that he's been outperformed by a bipedal raccoon.

trash panda
posted by entropicamericana at 1:53 PM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]


So now what I'm wanting is a movie with the full MCU (and TV) cast basically at cocktail party together...I think? Rocket and Thor could take turns spiking the punch.

Banner would spend most of the evening trying to control his temper and keep Peter and teen-Groot out of the booze.

Stark, Loki, Quill, and Strange have an epic contest to see who can be the most self-absorbed asshole that Natasha records for posterity/blackmail.

Gamora, Nebula, Jessica Jones, and Ms. Marvel (maybe Hill?) are off in a corner passing a bottle of something around and sharing war stories.

T'Challa, and his fab crew trying to convince Luke Cage that he should totally come check out Wakanda.

Steve and Bucky could finally get a chance to have a drink, talk and relax together. And if they end up dancing together by the end of the evening, NO ONE CARES. Except for Drax who makes his normal Drax like comments about dancing and engorged body parts.

The SHIELD crew gets no fun as they end up having to run interference most of the evening to keep upper Manhattan in one piece, because no one should ever get these guys together.

Well...I'm getting no more work done today. Off to open a new Word doc...
posted by sharp pointy objects at 1:54 PM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm guessing Vision doesn't die, but does lose his soul, so to speak, and becomes an existentially angsty robot instead of a real boy.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 1:56 PM on November 29, 2017


I think it's Bucky, in all honesty. I don't think he knows how to cope with the Steve he knew (little, asthmatic Steve who he always needed to rescue) and with Steve Rogers, Captain America who has saved him twice from his various captors. Bucky's having trouble reconciling the two emotionally.
Wait, did you miss the montage? I know that for cinematic purposes they had to accomplish "get Capsicle out of the history channel and caught up with the other Avengers ASAP" within less than one movie, but they did give us a montage! With Bucky and his BFF dramatically busting open a door while shooting in slow-mo! Bucky blowing up a building, already secure that his BFF will escape the huge fireball in a cool motorcycle jump! Bucky and his BFF marching (and sometimes sprinting) across Europe while smart people back at headquarters try to keep their Warhammer game in sync! Bucky holding the map so his BFF can plan strategy while surreptitiously taking wistful glances at a pic of his best gal! Bucky sniping the SuperNazi trying to sneak up on his BFF! Bucky's BFF slam dunking a Nazi SuperTank with explosives! (If you dramatically jump from 10 fireballs in slo-mo, you get a pack of explosives for the 11th free!)

Maybe we got sped through that in a quick montage, but that was years in story chronology. No, Bucky is definitely at this point already the kind of person who will happily jump onto a speeding train with Steve-Rogers-slash-Captain-America without worrying about questions of identity or being confused about the emotional connection.

So what happened?

I think Cap hit his first problem that he can't fix by laying down on the barbed wire.

Single-handedly picking fights with everyone from a movie theater bully to a Nazi prison camp to Iron Man to SHIELD to half the Avengers? He's cool with that. People who grow up with chronic health problems, even problems as simple as "90 pound asthmatic", don't rationally grow attached to the idea of living long and growing old, and they may not develop such an attachment even if circumstances change. He tries to do his best, and each time I think he half expects to go out trying, and he'll be okay with that.

But even if he doesn't care about risking himself, I think he's torn apart by risking (and losing, and only partially regaining) Bucky. Steve's BFF is physically altered and mentally scarred by a failure on a mission where Steve was in charge, and Steve definitely blames himself, and I think he might even be foolish enough to think that Bucky blames him too but just isn't saying so.

So from Steve's point of view, first he failed Bucky, and now what's left of Bucky doesn't even trust Steve's strength enough to get mad about that failure. And Steve can't even sublimate those feelings in another near-suicide-mission anymore, because he still owes it to Bucky to stick around as protection, for as long as Bucky remains a fugitive! Steve won't try for that hug until he thinks he's earned it again.

What about Bucky? He literally volunteered to be frozen again because he can't trust his own brain anymore! Bucky's not going to try for that hug until he's sure that Steve will be hugging Bucky, not hugging some out-of-control assassin-robot-arm.

...

Huh. I started writing this comment because I wanted to dispute a simple interpretation of fact, but I seem to have gone overboard. At this point I really want closure on that hug too, maybe with some familiar music subtly mixed into the background.
posted by roystgnr at 2:04 PM on November 29, 2017 [16 favorites]


Finally got a chance to see the trailer and I'm worried about this movie being horribly overstuffed. AoU was a mess and this looks like it has twice as many characters ; is it going to be four hours long?
posted by octothorpe at 2:15 PM on November 29, 2017


I know, space portals and all that, and everybody uses the same general ideas, but look, dude has to get all the magic rocks so he can build the power glove and Thanos can finally have hands of fate
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:33 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


Actually, Whedon would have written the Friendzoned by Death Thanos story but probably have made the Hela feel guilty about how maybe the whole thing was kinda her fault. I mean, she could have at least talked to the guy, right? Told him straight out she's not interested, like a Strong Female Character would?

So I think we probably dodged a bullet there.
posted by straight at 2:34 PM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


Infinity War was always going to be overstuffed. From the moment the first Thanos teaser ended after the first Avengers, I was internally groaning in anticipation of how overstuffed Infinity War would be. I have sincere doubts about anyone in this movie getting a good character arc. I will be very pleasantly surprised if there is even one good emotional moment that pays off a years-long relationship between literally any two characters. If any of my faves get one minute of screen time that's not about exposition or fighting, I will be shocked.

Infinity War is going to be a spectacle first and foremost, and while I have a certain amount of trust in the Russos pulling it off, I fully anticipate that I will find it to be a largely hollow spectacle. It'll sure look cool though, and I think it'll be a fascinating achievement in terms of paying off a literal decade of cinematic serial storytelling.
posted by yasaman at 2:39 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


Character arcs are for individual or small-group movies. Avengers-class movies have always been about the boom and the pow.

Except for The Vision.
posted by hanov3r at 2:54 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


Maybe we got sped through that in a quick montage, but that was years in story chronology. No, Bucky is definitely at this point already the kind of person who will happily jump onto a speeding train with Steve-Rogers-slash-Captain-America without worrying about questions of identity or being confused about the emotional connection.

I'm not forgetting that; I see the chronology as roughly this:

-Bucky leaves his BFF Steve when he goes to fight WWII
-Bucky gets captured by Hydra
-Bucky gets rescued by Steve, who has completely transformed from pre-war Steve. Maybe Bucky had seen the posters of Captain America; maybe he knew Steve was Captain America; but big buff BFF Steve is there to save his butt in person. This is confusing and changes the dynamic of the relationship
-Bucky and Steve fight Nazis together! This is awesome, and Bucky and Steve are starting to figure out how this new relationship works. But Steve is dealing with some new elements around his bisexuality with his feelings for Agent Carter. And there's no time for sorting all this emotional crap out because there are Nazi & Hydra butts to kick!
-Bucky falls from the train, gets frozen and brainwashed and tortured and made into the Winter Soldier. Decades pass; Steve reawakens and mourns the loss of the two loves of his life - Bucky and Peggy (even though Peggy isn't dead, he's still lost her).
-Steve saves Bucky again - reaching through the Winter Soldier programming to get him back. Bucky is confused and disoriented and has massive trauma to sort through.
-Steve is there for his BFF in whatever way he's needed; he lost Peggy, he won't lose Bucky. He will literally plant his feet and not move, even if the world tells him too. But Bucky is too traumatized and thinks he's too damaged, too unsafe to be with Steve. And Steve will let him go because that's what Bucky wants, and Steve won't ever stop trying to help his friend heal and become whole again. (One of the reasons I really enjoy the Captain America films is that the motivating force for the hero is his traumatized male friend, and not traumatized women. In fact, the unlikely friendship of Black Widow and Captain America - two very competent people with very different approaches - is one of the great parts of Winter Soldier in my view; it was great to see the two of them work together as colleagues and learn to respect each other without any of the usual gendered/sexual crap that gets put in).

I don't think it's that Steve doesn't think he deserves that hug, it's that Steve knows his friend needs him as protector and support. He's too vulnerable for Steve to do anything. And Bucky is too scared of not being control of himself to trust himself in a relationship.

Anyways, this is too many words spilled over what I don't think is even really a disagreement - we all want to see Steve and Bucky hug (where "hug" basically means the two men acknowledging their feelings and embracing each other and their relationship), we maybe just have some differences of opinion on where the holdups are.
posted by nubs at 2:56 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


Now I'm interested in an Avengers movie where they're all bears.

So the ScAvengers then
posted by oulipian at 3:12 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


And just to finish my thoughts, Bucky also doesn't like being in the position of being the one who needs protection; that was his role to Steve, way back when. He's still struggling with that.

OK. Enough.
posted by nubs at 3:15 PM on November 29, 2017


All I want from the MCU (eventually):

Tony Stark, Mar-Vell, Doctor Strange, and Everett Ross in an elevator, standing around awkwardly and avoiding eye contact, while a Muzaked version of Granada Televisinon’s Sherlock Holmes plays over the elevator speakers.
posted by tzikeh at 3:31 PM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]


While we might not get that, we could definitely get a scene of Tony talking through what he's just figured out ending with "...and if that's true then the solution is just..."

"Elementary?" -- Stephen Strange, also a scientist but a wizard too.

(Hey, Strange is kinda Doctor Doom to Tony's Reed Richards. Maybe Dr. Strange could use the Eye of Agamotto to send Tony, Bruce, and Torch Steve back in time to steal Blackbeard's treasure chest and Hulk grows a beard and ends up becoming the historical Blackbeard and wants to stay behind and rule the high seas and Tony tricks Strange by bringing back the chest without the magic treasure in it?)
posted by straight at 4:27 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]


we all want to see Steve and Bucky hug (where "hug" basically means the two men acknowledging their feelings and embracing each other and their relationship

excuse me some of us want to see them bone
posted by poffin boffin at 4:34 PM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]


Except for The Vision.

I would camp out to get tickets to see a big screen adaptation of Tom King’s run on that. I just reread that two days ago. It’s gotta be in my top five hero comics of all time.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


Monica Rambeau, people. Monica Rambeau.

Hell, all of Nextwave. But especially Monica.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:37 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]


Tony Stark, Mar-Vell, Doctor Strange, and Everett Ross in an elevator

Marvel is leaving money, plus two excellent actors, on the table if they don't cast Lucy Liu and/or Jonny Lee Miller in the MCU right now. What kind of movie would someone make anyway that it wouldn't be better with Lucy Liu in it?!

(P.S. Joan Watson >>> other Watsons)
posted by nicebookrack at 5:38 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


Monica Rambeau BETTER show up adjacent to the Captain Marvel movie or we shall have WORDS with thee, Marvel.
posted by nicebookrack at 5:40 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


okay so if we're talking Steve/Bucky fanfic I just need to point y'all at the apotheosis of the form.

also, re: the actual trailer: [high pitched dolphin noises]
posted by nonasuch at 5:41 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


You guys are very forgiving. This just looks like Avengers 2 x 10. Too many characters to allow anything resembling a coherent or interesting plot and the requisite cgi battle at the end with an underdeveloped villain.

While Thor 3 was maybe TOO goofy for its own good at times, ultimately it was a ton of fun and suffered very little from the cross-marketing doldrums. I didn't expect it to be one of my favourite Marvel movies, but it definitely was. Because it was the opposite of this.

This just feels like the tedium of a print comic crossover event made flesh.
posted by picea at 5:43 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


An adaptation of a Marvel comic from 1991
While that's true, note that the IMDB cast lists Ebony Maw from Thanos' Black Order which are relatively new creations from Jonathan Hickman's Avengers run. I'm wondering if they are going to include some of those story lines.

Speaking of Hickman, if you don't like the Fantastic Four you should check out Johnathan Hickman's FF run. I was never a fan of the FF but I think it was someone on Metafilter who recommended it and I was impressed - he managed to make the FF interesting again. I'd be surprised if the Rick & Morty guys didn't have a passing familiarity with that run.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:58 PM on November 29, 2017


excuse me some of us want to see them bone

Disney isn't going to risk an R or X rating for a Marvel film, as awesome as it would be.
posted by nubs at 5:59 PM on November 29, 2017


Disney isn't going to risk an R or X rating for a Marvel film, as awesome as it would be.

I will settle for them tenderly making out onscreen and retiring from superheroics to a walk-up in Bushwick. If I must.
posted by nonasuch at 6:08 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]


Obviously Marvel won't let them bone on screen. Or let anyone bone on screen, actually, I think the raciest thing we've seen in the MCU movies is the night after Tony Stark or Peter Quill's one night stands (I first had this say Tony Stark and Peter Quill's one night stands, but that...is a very different thing. that I'm sure someone has written fic for.) That's why I set my sights lower, on a hug. I can then assume the boning is implied because most epic MCU love story, very romantic, etc.
posted by yasaman at 6:15 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


nonasuch, I trust you have read the 4 Minute Window series?
posted by btfreek at 6:21 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


nonasuch, I trust you have read the 4 Minute Window series?

Oh yeah. Hoping she does another advent calendar for it this year!
posted by nonasuch at 6:28 PM on November 29, 2017


At this point my subconscious believes in that 'verse so much that whenever I watch the Cap/Avengers movies I'm mildly taken aback that Steve and Bucky are not, in fact, living as semi-retired superheroes-slash-contractors out in Coney Island
posted by btfreek at 6:47 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]


I just had a sudden urge to see Javier Bardem play Dr Doom. That's all I really have to add here.
posted by pagrus at 6:57 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]


I was loving this until I was reminded that the Guardians of the Galaxy are in it. Nothing against the Guardians, I just think Chris Pratt is an asshole.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:27 PM on November 29, 2017


Tallying epic MCU romances: Let the record show that despite Tony Stark's urban legend playboy reputation, Tony & Pepper Potts will have been in an actively committed relationship for six movies (Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, The Avengers, Age of Ultron, Spider-Man: Homecoming, Infinity War). Eight movies if you count Iron Man (they were flirting but not official) and Captain America: Civil War (they were broken up but Tony was still pining)

Has there been any series of movies, let alone superhero movies, in which the romantic leads stay in the same relationship (same characters, same continuity) for 6+ movies? Batman's girlfriends usually last 1-2 movies before they vanish/die/turn evil. Superman always hearts Lois Lane but his universe keeps getting rebooted. Maybe the Nick & Nora movies have a longer streak? I may take this question to AskMe in a minute because now I'm curious.

TL;DR "I don't think you could tie your shoes without me."
posted by nicebookrack at 7:49 PM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]


nonasuch, I trust you have read the 4 Minute Window series?

Oh yeah. Hoping she does another advent calendar for it this year!


Author says it's in the works.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:55 PM on November 29, 2017


I EXPERIENCED THE ENTIRE SPECTRUM OF HUMAN EMOTION DURING THIS TRAILER
posted by floweringjudas at 8:04 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]


THE ENTIRE SPECTRUM FROM POWER THROUGH SPACE AND TIME, MIND AND SOUL, ALL THE WAY TO REALITY.
posted by straight at 8:14 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]




> I think the raciest thing we've seen in the MCU movies is the night after Tony Stark or Peter Quill's one night stands

"You and Banner better not be playing 'hide the zucchini.'"
posted by davelog at 10:18 PM on November 29, 2017


I just need Hulk to punch Thanos in the face really, really hard, that is all.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:31 AM on November 30, 2017


I'm fairly sure what would happen is nothing. Hulk would scowl, glare at Thanos, glare at his fist, glare at Thanos again and then Thanos would punch him back and he'd fly way, way over the horizon. 'Cause that's the power of the Cosmic Mitten.
posted by Grangousier at 1:54 AM on November 30, 2017


Pretty sure I've suggested this before but...
2 hour long movie, Steve Rogers comes to terms with his deep-seated 1940's upbringing internalised homophobia.


Which is a lot less than you think. Especially given he grew up in the gay district in New York
posted by Francis at 2:20 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Man, at some point I'd love to FPP some of the really fascinating Steve history meta re: the gay district stuff or the potential socialism ties that history oriented fandom meta writers have created, based on comparing and contrasting the attitudes of a progressive guy who grew up in NYC in the 30s with the attitudes a modern audience might respect.

Did it once and it didn't turn out so well discussion wise, though, so I haven't pushed it so hard.
posted by sciatrix at 5:34 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm pretty sure I saw this linked here somewhere, but this is a good argument for Steve Rogers as a liberal despite being around 90. He would have come of age in an environment that a lot of America today would call pretty darn lefty.

Apologies if it repeats a lot of the dreamwidth link's content, I'm at work and got a content warning on that so I'm reluctant to click through.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:39 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


The DW link is pure text and not porn in any way, if that helps. It's a historical meta post, which means that its SFWness is going to be a function of your particular workplace's tolerance for queer history vis a vis safeness or not.
posted by sciatrix at 5:43 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


That shot of Peter Parker's hair-raising arm? That's me watching this trailer.

Then at the very end with Thor asking "Who the hell are you guys?" and there stand the GOTG.

OMG #dead
posted by zakur at 7:27 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I just think Chris Pratt is an asshole

His name is "Pratt". IT'S RIGHT THERE ON THE TIN.
posted by hanov3r at 7:55 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Welp, speaking of superheroes and bears, I just finished The Guardians a little bit ago. All in all, it was fun. Not particularly good per se, but quite enjoyable, IMO. I am also cutting Russian cinema a little slack since this is, as far as I know, their first real attempt at playing along with the big boys in the big-ticket superhero movies game.

Treat it as a freshman attempt with a fair size budget, and I shan't think you should be disappointed.
posted by Samizdata at 8:29 AM on November 30, 2017


even though Peggy isn't dead, he's still lost her

Peggy, of course, "married" Angie way back and they were very happy together

not mad about agent carter, no, why would you ask

posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ah, my over-investment in Bucky and Steve's emotional arc is validated again. Thanks guys.

I think there could be an argument that the good MCU movies are frames to hang your imagination around (whether that be fanfic or in your head). Just enough emotional stuff, relationship stuff and so on that you can build these huge, deep and complex worlds for characters outside the film - but most of the film itself is actually explosions :)
posted by Vortisaur at 10:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


All in all, it was fun.

Re: Guardians - I think it is safe to say the trailer has the best stuff in it. Though I did like that in the end it was all Ronald Reagan's fault.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:54 PM on November 30, 2017


a retro FF with Kirbyesque images could be interesting. Especially if the entire team dies in the end.

Innocent look You mean those guys that are a rip-off of The Incredibles?
posted by happyroach at 1:54 PM on November 30, 2017


Replace FF with live-action Incredibles, hire me Disney you cowards
posted by nicebookrack at 10:14 PM on November 30, 2017


tumblr's annoyed the trailer didn't end with an "I am Groot!" and I can't blame them.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:16 PM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bullshit, tumblr's annoyed that the trailer didn't start with Bucky and Steve in bed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:02 AM on December 1, 2017


a marriage proposal would have also been acceptable

anyway, mcu fandom's priorities are in order: the most talked about moment in the trailer was cap's beard. Relatedly, here is my favorite piece of Infinity War trailer-related fan art: beard bros.

wait, no, this is my favorite piece of Infinity War trailer related fan art: the Steve Rogers as Nomad costume WE DESERVE.
posted by yasaman at 7:26 AM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


The internet loves Steve's beard. In unrelated news, where's Sharon Carter in this trailer?
posted by straight at 8:00 AM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sharon took her cue from the implosion of SHIELD and the cringe-implosion of her awkward kiss with Steve to go wrap up Aunt Peggy's final affairs in England and work for British military intelligence for a bit.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:42 PM on December 4, 2017


> I'm pretty sure I saw this linked here somewhere, but this is a good argument for Steve Rogers as a liberal despite being around 90.

Previously: Stalwart And Steady And True
posted by homunculus at 12:56 PM on December 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


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