Erin O'Toole ousted as leader of the Conservative Party of Canada
February 2, 2022 11:24 AM Subscribe
The leading candidates to replace Erin O'Toole The knives have been out for a while. The so-called "Freedom Convoy" activity in the country is one of the most visible signs of where conservatism in Canada is heading, and I find my hopeful side looking in Peter McKay's direction as one of the least objectionable replacements. Any thoughts?
My only thought is a fervent hope that this isn't the start of a hard-right slide by the Conservatives. O'Toole was not a good leader, but he at least courted both moderates and social conservatives/the fringe groups. I'm worried the next guy will double down and drag the party to the right.
I agree with Catherine McKenna: "A Conservative Party that dances with the far right is good for the Liberal Party. But it's terrible for our democracy."
posted by hepta at 11:30 AM on February 2, 2022 [32 favorites]
I agree with Catherine McKenna: "A Conservative Party that dances with the far right is good for the Liberal Party. But it's terrible for our democracy."
posted by hepta at 11:30 AM on February 2, 2022 [32 favorites]
glad you quoted McKenna, that is about the only thing I can focus on right now.. the crazier the CPC gets, the lousier the Liberal Party seems to get.. it's like they can't even be bothered.. and the country keeps swirling down a drain and things get progressively worse
posted by elkevelvet at 11:32 AM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 11:32 AM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
I suspect that the next Conservative leader will be someone from the party's far-right wing. This will make them unelectable, which means that they might try Trump-style populist tricks.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 11:32 AM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 11:32 AM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
I just don't see how going all in on US-style populist fascism is a winning strategy.
It's not. But the wonderful thing about Canada for conservatives is that they have the NDP so more often than not they just need a plurality. Plus the NDP is pretty busy imploding what's left of their support on the left so a bunch of people who gave NDP all their support and ridings will probably stay home next election completely disillusioned.
So it's not much a winning strategy but it's possible to win while using this strategy. And if your goals are maximal cruelty in the maintenance of white supremacy, rolling back the status quo, and being a reactionary, fascist tool then it's probably a good time to go for broke. You'll never get another chance before demographics wreck your political ambitions permanently.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:34 AM on February 2, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's not. But the wonderful thing about Canada for conservatives is that they have the NDP so more often than not they just need a plurality. Plus the NDP is pretty busy imploding what's left of their support on the left so a bunch of people who gave NDP all their support and ridings will probably stay home next election completely disillusioned.
So it's not much a winning strategy but it's possible to win while using this strategy. And if your goals are maximal cruelty in the maintenance of white supremacy, rolling back the status quo, and being a reactionary, fascist tool then it's probably a good time to go for broke. You'll never get another chance before demographics wreck your political ambitions permanently.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:34 AM on February 2, 2022 [6 favorites]
As for Peter MacKay: Tabatha Southey called him out many years ago.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 11:35 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 11:35 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
I suspect that the next Conservative leader will be someone from the party's far-right wing. This will make them unelectable, which means that they might try Trump-style populist tricks.
It will mean that, but it will also likely lead to splintering - especially if they try to reconcile with Bernier. I honestly don't know what the future looks like for the Conservatives in this country; they don't seem to be able to create a big tent coalition out of their various parts anymore and there's no Harper on the horizon who could weld them together.
posted by nubs at 11:37 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
It will mean that, but it will also likely lead to splintering - especially if they try to reconcile with Bernier. I honestly don't know what the future looks like for the Conservatives in this country; they don't seem to be able to create a big tent coalition out of their various parts anymore and there's no Harper on the horizon who could weld them together.
posted by nubs at 11:37 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
if mentioning Peter McKay as "least objectionable" results in many "Here's Why Peter McKay is Objectionable" comments, I'm hoping to also hear.. opinions on candidates that might be less objectionable than Peter McKay?
Is Chong someone to look more closely at? I've heard Michelle Rempel say things that sound reasonable to me, but also I've heard atrocious things. And I was receiving campaign emails from Lewis and: wow, no.
I do not plan to vote for the CPC ever, that ship sailed when it was the Conservatives under Joe Clark
edit to add: Southey's hit piece on McKay.. I just don't think that's the best example of why he's a terrible candidate, surely there is better.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:40 AM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is Chong someone to look more closely at? I've heard Michelle Rempel say things that sound reasonable to me, but also I've heard atrocious things. And I was receiving campaign emails from Lewis and: wow, no.
I do not plan to vote for the CPC ever, that ship sailed when it was the Conservatives under Joe Clark
edit to add: Southey's hit piece on McKay.. I just don't think that's the best example of why he's a terrible candidate, surely there is better.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:40 AM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
It will mean that, but it will also likely lead to splintering - especially if they try to reconcile with Bernier. I honestly don't know what the future looks like for the Conservatives in this country; they don't seem to be able to create a big tent coalition out of their various parts anymore and there's no Harper on the horizon who could weld them together.
You don't have really have to. I mean, if I was a racist plutocrat who wanted to hedge his (and let's face it, it's a him) bets I would be covertly funding insurgent left campaigns in every riding promising massive wealth distribution and ponies for everyone. That way I can siphon votes away from the Liberals, I can scare the shit out of the middle, and I get to keep wavering conservatives in line all at once.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:41 AM on February 2, 2022
You don't have really have to. I mean, if I was a racist plutocrat who wanted to hedge his (and let's face it, it's a him) bets I would be covertly funding insurgent left campaigns in every riding promising massive wealth distribution and ponies for everyone. That way I can siphon votes away from the Liberals, I can scare the shit out of the middle, and I get to keep wavering conservatives in line all at once.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:41 AM on February 2, 2022
I just don't see how going all in on US-style populist fascism is a winning strategy.
Well, it will keep us USians from heading north when things go even farther south down here. Oh, won't somebody please think of the clueless!? It will cost a lot more time and money to move to the lands of Kiwi and Oz.
posted by y2karl at 11:42 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well, it will keep us USians from heading north when things go even farther south down here. Oh, won't somebody please think of the clueless!? It will cost a lot more time and money to move to the lands of Kiwi and Oz.
posted by y2karl at 11:42 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
If there's a hard-right turn (which it looks to be), that drastically reduces the pool of candidates who are, you know, sane.
The smart move would be to go for someone who could contain the far right voices enough to still let the party be competitive -- your Mulroneys or Harpers. O'Toole couldn't, he wasn't big enough of a presence. Pick someone on the far right, you're looking at political oblivion, and how many times has this party seen that movie?
Offhand, I think you're looking at someone like John Baird. He stepped out early for some kind of advantageous comeback, maybe this is it?
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:44 AM on February 2, 2022
The smart move would be to go for someone who could contain the far right voices enough to still let the party be competitive -- your Mulroneys or Harpers. O'Toole couldn't, he wasn't big enough of a presence. Pick someone on the far right, you're looking at political oblivion, and how many times has this party seen that movie?
Offhand, I think you're looking at someone like John Baird. He stepped out early for some kind of advantageous comeback, maybe this is it?
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:44 AM on February 2, 2022
It will cost a lot more time and money to move to the lands of Kiwi and Oz.
Pentecostal nutjobs have been making an all out assault trying to take over the conservative party in Oz as well so it's not all hugs and puppies down there. At least Ardern is sane and a fighter.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:45 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Pentecostal nutjobs have been making an all out assault trying to take over the conservative party in Oz as well so it's not all hugs and puppies down there. At least Ardern is sane and a fighter.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:45 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I think the CPC wants that far right leader and rhetoric because four years in the US has emboldened them and of course, not one of them--to my knowledge--condemned the shitstorm in Ottawa. People want that kind of power will lie down with dogs to get it.
posted by Kitteh at 11:48 AM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 11:48 AM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
opinions on candidates that might be less objectionable than Peter McKay?...I've heard Michelle Rempel say things that sound reasonable to me, but also I've heard atrocious things
Things have moved fast and the analysis and opinion pieces are still from yesterday when this was an "if", and I'm finding the Notional Past piece linked in the FPP a little too flippant; looking forward to some meaty analysis of the potential candidates. Rempel-Garner would be a challenging candidate, I think - she's walked a strange line between hardcore Conservative on some issues and a more progressive approach on others; of late, she's struck me as more of the hardcore Conservative bent. Rona Ambrose might be an interesting possibility - she may have done herself some good by stepping away for a while and can come in relatively fresh.
posted by nubs at 11:48 AM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Things have moved fast and the analysis and opinion pieces are still from yesterday when this was an "if", and I'm finding the Notional Past piece linked in the FPP a little too flippant; looking forward to some meaty analysis of the potential candidates. Rempel-Garner would be a challenging candidate, I think - she's walked a strange line between hardcore Conservative on some issues and a more progressive approach on others; of late, she's struck me as more of the hardcore Conservative bent. Rona Ambrose might be an interesting possibility - she may have done herself some good by stepping away for a while and can come in relatively fresh.
posted by nubs at 11:48 AM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
You don't have really have to. I mean, if I was a racist plutocrat who wanted to hedge his (and let's face it, it's a him) bets I would be covertly funding insurgent left campaigns in every riding promising massive wealth distribution and ponies for everyone. That way I can siphon votes away from the Liberals, I can scare the shit out of the middle, and I get to keep wavering conservatives in line all at once.
If you're a racist plutocrat, the Liberals already give you what you want. If you fund conservatives, it's for culture war reasons, not plutocrat ones. And the straw man about insurgent left candidates is some kind of weird distraction since that's not anything viable in Canada.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:50 AM on February 2, 2022 [9 favorites]
If you're a racist plutocrat, the Liberals already give you what you want. If you fund conservatives, it's for culture war reasons, not plutocrat ones. And the straw man about insurgent left candidates is some kind of weird distraction since that's not anything viable in Canada.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:50 AM on February 2, 2022 [9 favorites]
Some days I seem to have a portrait for ever occasion. This is the one I drew a few years back of Mr O'Toole, the gormless waffler supreme.
Also, I think what's coming down the pike to replace him is going to be far, far worse, the right is so insane these days and with Maxime's Toy Army on the rise it will drag the Cons even further to the right.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:50 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also, I think what's coming down the pike to replace him is going to be far, far worse, the right is so insane these days and with Maxime's Toy Army on the rise it will drag the Cons even further to the right.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:50 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Peter Mackay calling Belinda Stronach a dog is among my first specific memories of Canadian politics. He has left a sour taste in my mouth ever since, for a number of reasons. The fact that he may be the "best of the bunch" is disappointing.
posted by hepta at 11:51 AM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by hepta at 11:51 AM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
I suspect that the next Conservative leader will be someone from the party's far-right wing. This will make them unelectable
Pick someone on the far right, you're looking at political oblivion, and how many times has this party seen that movie?
I wish I could share this optimism but after Trump, Johnson, Ford, and *gestures vaguely at everything*, it's hard to believe that anyone is unelectable if they have a name-brand party behind them.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:52 AM on February 2, 2022 [26 favorites]
Pick someone on the far right, you're looking at political oblivion, and how many times has this party seen that movie?
I wish I could share this optimism but after Trump, Johnson, Ford, and *gestures vaguely at everything*, it's hard to believe that anyone is unelectable if they have a name-brand party behind them.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:52 AM on February 2, 2022 [26 favorites]
DoFo busy cleaning the stains out of his Big Boy outfit.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 11:55 AM on February 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 11:55 AM on February 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
I wish I could share this optimism but after Trump, Johnson, Ford, and *gestures vaguely at everything*, it's hard to believe that anyone is unelectable if they have a name-brand party behind them
Agreed. I think Canada needs to abandon the "well, it could never happen up here" belief because honestly, I think it freaking can. Definitely showing my Gen X cynicism here but once again, I point to what's happening in Ottawa.
posted by Kitteh at 12:00 PM on February 2, 2022 [20 favorites]
Agreed. I think Canada needs to abandon the "well, it could never happen up here" belief because honestly, I think it freaking can. Definitely showing my Gen X cynicism here but once again, I point to what's happening in Ottawa.
posted by Kitteh at 12:00 PM on February 2, 2022 [20 favorites]
Poilievre has this in the bag, doesn't he?
posted by sardonyx at 12:03 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 12:03 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
But the wonderful thing about Canada for conservatives
Speaking of which, what is Kevin O'Leary up to these days or is he not sufficiently reactionary enough as a celebrity blowhard to be coronated like so many other gasbags in other countries?
I wish I could share this optimism but after Trump, Johnson, Ford, and *gestures vaguely at everything*, it's hard to believe that anyone is unelectable if they have a name-brand party behind them.
Didn't pandemic mishandling sink brother Doug's chances?
posted by Apocryphon at 12:05 PM on February 2, 2022
Speaking of which, what is Kevin O'Leary up to these days or is he not sufficiently reactionary enough as a celebrity blowhard to be coronated like so many other gasbags in other countries?
I wish I could share this optimism but after Trump, Johnson, Ford, and *gestures vaguely at everything*, it's hard to believe that anyone is unelectable if they have a name-brand party behind them.
Didn't pandemic mishandling sink brother Doug's chances?
posted by Apocryphon at 12:05 PM on February 2, 2022
DoFo isn't a hard right conservative, I don't think. He's more of a big business conservative with an inclination to pander.
That said, I can't imagine the Conservatives are all that likely to vote him leader when they essentially ordered him underground in the last election.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:13 PM on February 2, 2022 [6 favorites]
That said, I can't imagine the Conservatives are all that likely to vote him leader when they essentially ordered him underground in the last election.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:13 PM on February 2, 2022 [6 favorites]
"A Conservative Party that dances with the far right is good for the Liberal Party. But it's terrible for our democracy."
That's what more or less what American pundits thought in, oh, say, October 2016. Careful!
posted by aspo at 12:16 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
That's what more or less what American pundits thought in, oh, say, October 2016. Careful!
posted by aspo at 12:16 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm not feeling all doom and gloom about this necessarily... politics here in Europe has been kind of okay recently (France is the next big roll of the dice...).
It's clear that this a rejection of the centre-right position that O'Toole was trying to occupy, but the party rejected Maxime Bernier once upon a time too. We'll see where they land.
posted by Alex404 at 12:20 PM on February 2, 2022
It's clear that this a rejection of the centre-right position that O'Toole was trying to occupy, but the party rejected Maxime Bernier once upon a time too. We'll see where they land.
posted by Alex404 at 12:20 PM on February 2, 2022
DoFo is currently employed, and stands a good chance of getting rehired, considering his opposition and his rock solid rural support. It's hard to see him giving that up for leading an opposition party. He's much less blustery than he was before -- it seems that he sees what so many of us do, that he's in way over his head.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:23 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:23 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Maybe Kevin O'Leary was a little too low-budget and uninspiring to be the northern Trump. Has Jordan B. Peterson or Don Cherry ever expressed political aspirations
posted by Apocryphon at 12:29 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by Apocryphon at 12:29 PM on February 2, 2022
To steal from Paul Fairie, only O. Henry could write a story about people who start a protest to open the borders and demand the resignation of the Liberal leader winding up closing a border and producing the resignation of the Conservative leader.
In a less pithy analysis, there's an interesting thread on Twitter about how the Liberals do fundraising in-house while the Conservatives outsource it, and tl/dr the result is that not only are the Liberals are more efficient, the Conservatives have created a separate power base outside the leadership concerned only with maximizing day-to-day fundraising numbers, and the way to do that is to focus on the sort of bullshit culture war policies that you can make a fortune fundraising off of, but that will lose you every swing riding next election.
posted by Superilla at 12:32 PM on February 2, 2022 [10 favorites]
In a less pithy analysis, there's an interesting thread on Twitter about how the Liberals do fundraising in-house while the Conservatives outsource it, and tl/dr the result is that not only are the Liberals are more efficient, the Conservatives have created a separate power base outside the leadership concerned only with maximizing day-to-day fundraising numbers, and the way to do that is to focus on the sort of bullshit culture war policies that you can make a fortune fundraising off of, but that will lose you every swing riding next election.
posted by Superilla at 12:32 PM on February 2, 2022 [10 favorites]
I happened to look at Peter MacKay's website yesterday, and it looks like it hasn't been updated at all since the last leadership race. I guess he figured it'd put him a step ahead this time around.
posted by clawsoon at 12:39 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 12:39 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
But the wonderful thing about Canada for conservatives is that they have the NDP so more often than not they just need a plurality.
It's important to note here that the right is also splintered now with the PPC. If course, it's not so far-fetched now that they'll court Bernier again to dissolve his party. Nothing is off the table with ideologies shifting so rapidly.
posted by thoughtful_jester at 12:41 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's important to note here that the right is also splintered now with the PPC. If course, it's not so far-fetched now that they'll court Bernier again to dissolve his party. Nothing is off the table with ideologies shifting so rapidly.
posted by thoughtful_jester at 12:41 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
elkevelvet: And I was receiving campaign emails from Lewis and: wow, no.
Lewis remains the most interesting candidate to me from a "read the temperature of the party" point of view. She is solidly socially conservative, the perfect candidate for Bible Belt Christians who hate abortion (and vaccines) and want to prove they're not racist.
At the same time, the past couple of years have had a lot of "angry white man" energy, and angry white man energy may have trouble attaching itself to a black woman.
posted by clawsoon at 12:48 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Lewis remains the most interesting candidate to me from a "read the temperature of the party" point of view. She is solidly socially conservative, the perfect candidate for Bible Belt Christians who hate abortion (and vaccines) and want to prove they're not racist.
At the same time, the past couple of years have had a lot of "angry white man" energy, and angry white man energy may have trouble attaching itself to a black woman.
posted by clawsoon at 12:48 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Has Jordan B. Peterson or Don Cherry ever expressed political aspirations
Oh, please, please, please make it so!
posted by No Robots at 1:02 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
Oh, please, please, please make it so!
posted by No Robots at 1:02 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
elkevelvet: I've heard Michelle Rempel say things that sound reasonable to me, but also I've heard atrocious things.
As someone who is also ethnically Mennonite, I'd say that's par for the course for a group of people who are anti-war and also voted enthusiastically for Hitler. (It got even more complicated when a bunch of us moved to Western Canada and converted to the less patriarchal but more war-loving Evangelicalism.)
posted by clawsoon at 1:09 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
As someone who is also ethnically Mennonite, I'd say that's par for the course for a group of people who are anti-war and also voted enthusiastically for Hitler. (It got even more complicated when a bunch of us moved to Western Canada and converted to the less patriarchal but more war-loving Evangelicalism.)
posted by clawsoon at 1:09 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
As someone who is also ethnically Mennonite
Nevermind. Turns out I mistook her married name (?) for her birth name, and her proud cooking of portzelky for... uh... now I'm thoroughly confused.
posted by clawsoon at 1:15 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Nevermind. Turns out I mistook her married name (?) for her birth name, and her proud cooking of portzelky for... uh... now I'm thoroughly confused.
posted by clawsoon at 1:15 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Poilievre has this in the bag, doesn't he?
Well, if palpable, desperate yearning counts for anything, he has the same energy as the neighbour dog I encountered in the elevator while I was holding a bag of fresh garlic sausages. Just substitute "sausages" for "leadership race."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:17 PM on February 2, 2022 [12 favorites]
Well, if palpable, desperate yearning counts for anything, he has the same energy as the neighbour dog I encountered in the elevator while I was holding a bag of fresh garlic sausages. Just substitute "sausages" for "leadership race."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:17 PM on February 2, 2022 [12 favorites]
I tend to agree with the notion that DoFo will stay in Ontario as long as he's premier; he knows everyone here, the machine is entirely his. Why would he put his name in for a job that would require him to make a lot of new friends who haven't already had decades of kickbacks from the "Ford Foundation" and, worse, have to suck up to Quebecers? Nah, that pig's found his wallow.
More's the pity for Ontario. I do have hopes he'll be rousted in a few months but I've no idea how that can happen. It's all just bad.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
More's the pity for Ontario. I do have hopes he'll be rousted in a few months but I've no idea how that can happen. It's all just bad.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Jordan Peterson is shithouse rat crazy, and as amusing as it would be to see him drive the CPC off a cliff, that would probably be bad for the country.
Please no. Also please no to Pigeon Pierre.
posted by jrochest at 1:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Please no. Also please no to Pigeon Pierre.
posted by jrochest at 1:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't see much downside for the Conservatives moving further right and maybe re-absorbing the PPC. They're good at keeping a big tent and can hold their noses and ignore the more "extreme" positions within the party. This is both the Red Tories accepting the social conservatives and the social conservatives accepting the Red Tories. Like if Bernier were to come back and win the leadership I wouldn't expect anyone that voted Conservative last election to vote for a different party.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:22 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:22 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also please no to Pigeon Pierre.
Someone once hung the nickname "Skippy" on him.
To me, he looks like the student who would put up his hand late on the Friday before a long weekend and remind the teacher that no homework had been assigned yet.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 1:25 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Someone once hung the nickname "Skippy" on him.
To me, he looks like the student who would put up his hand late on the Friday before a long weekend and remind the teacher that no homework had been assigned yet.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 1:25 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Kitteh: Agreed. I think Canada needs to abandon the "well, it could never happen up here" belief because honestly, I think it freaking can.
To that point, I'm seeing a number of Fox News clips from conservative Canadian friends about the truck convoy. Also just saw a "fake news" from one of them. Trumpism is infecting us the same way that Reaganism did.
posted by clawsoon at 1:42 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
To that point, I'm seeing a number of Fox News clips from conservative Canadian friends about the truck convoy. Also just saw a "fake news" from one of them. Trumpism is infecting us the same way that Reaganism did.
posted by clawsoon at 1:42 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Has Jordan B. Peterson or Don Cherry ever expressed political aspirations
Oh, please, please, please make it so!
NO.
posted by saturday_morning at 1:43 PM on February 2, 2022 [9 favorites]
Oh, please, please, please make it so!
NO.
posted by saturday_morning at 1:43 PM on February 2, 2022 [9 favorites]
The idea that the Conservatives dumped O'Toole in order to put someone more centrist in the leadership is... well, not well thought out. O'Toole was the most acceptable "progressive" candidate. I think we go another election cycle with Maxime Bernier's PPC splitting the far right vote before there's another reckoning.
I don't expect the new leader will last long, either.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:44 PM on February 2, 2022
I don't expect the new leader will last long, either.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:44 PM on February 2, 2022
I was looking at this poll the other day about who would make the best Prime Minister. Trudeau got 25%, Singh got 19%, and O'Toole got 16%.
"Other/None/Don't Know" got 40%.
There are votes available to be taken. It's anybody's guess how they'll be taken.
posted by clawsoon at 1:50 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
"Other/None/Don't Know" got 40%.
There are votes available to be taken. It's anybody's guess how they'll be taken.
posted by clawsoon at 1:50 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
I certainly have no love for O'Toole and his fate was sealed by his poor showing at the election. But so was Scheer's. And if they choose Skippy (AKA Pierre Poilievre) someone who leans farther right of both Scheer and O'Toole they'll lose another election. Skippy is, despite his name, a Prairie politician with Tory French skills which is not going to win him votes in east of Manitoba and west of the Rockies. Its a non-starter. I doubt McKay would bother with the party again, he's been humiliated so many times by them. Doug Ford likely will win the next provincial election so I can't see him moving on (he'll lose seats for sure but neither the Ontario Liberals or NDP are strong enough to take on an entrenched PC party). Leslyn Lewis would be an interesting choice, though more of the same in that she is a vociferous social conservative with questionable opinions on COVID19 and all that goes with that. But if the Convoy protest has taught me anything, there is a strong contingent of Tory voters who wouldn't vote for a woman or a person of colour or someone from Ontario. Michael Chong would be good choice for them if they actually wanted to win more seats in Ontario but I can't see that happening because he's rational, mixed race, and someone from Ontario despite maybe having some shared values.
Ultimately a party in disarray is bad because I think, as mentioned above, when a party falls apart the rest of the parties tend to go in directions that are unhelpful. The Greens, Liberals and the NDP have all gotten worse and worse and less appealing. As for a Canadian version of Trump? I can't see any party at this point being given a majority so I don't think this is really on the table. Honestly, I'd just like the Tories to bite the bullet and split the party - a Red Tory party and a Prairie Bloq party and move forward.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:54 PM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
Ultimately a party in disarray is bad because I think, as mentioned above, when a party falls apart the rest of the parties tend to go in directions that are unhelpful. The Greens, Liberals and the NDP have all gotten worse and worse and less appealing. As for a Canadian version of Trump? I can't see any party at this point being given a majority so I don't think this is really on the table. Honestly, I'd just like the Tories to bite the bullet and split the party - a Red Tory party and a Prairie Bloq party and move forward.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:54 PM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
~I just don't see how going all in on US-style populist fascism is a winning strategy.
~Well, it will keep us USians from heading north when things go even farther south down here.
It’s a mistake to think of the far-right/fascist movements in the US and Canada as separate things. They are best thought of as two phalanxes of an organized continental invasion. The fascists don’t/won’t recognize borders.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:58 PM on February 2, 2022 [14 favorites]
~Well, it will keep us USians from heading north when things go even farther south down here.
It’s a mistake to think of the far-right/fascist movements in the US and Canada as separate things. They are best thought of as two phalanxes of an organized continental invasion. The fascists don’t/won’t recognize borders.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:58 PM on February 2, 2022 [14 favorites]
Poilievre has this in the bag, doesn't he?
Last time he pulled out of entering the race very last minute with vague explanations of "I've recently discovered I have a familly". The rumors are he's got some skeletons in the closet and was told to just drop it.
Lewis remains the most interesting candidate to me from a "read the temperature of the party" point of view. She is solidly socially conservative, the perfect candidate for Bible Belt Christians who hate abortion (and vaccines) and want to prove they're not racist.
Also doesn't speak a word of french if I recall correctly. Most of you don't care, but it's at least one or two strikes against you in Qc, and they might not have a lot of MPs there, but that's not gonna help them get more.
I have a really hard time seeing how they keep the party governable, any move to the right gives em less MPs, any move to the center makes a bunch of the current MPs want to revolt and they need that get elected. They can't split or they'll get marginalized.
But they still got more votes than the libs last election though, so let us pray the libs don't score a hat trick in their own goal before the next election. (I don't like the libs but better them than the conservatives).
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:07 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Last time he pulled out of entering the race very last minute with vague explanations of "I've recently discovered I have a familly". The rumors are he's got some skeletons in the closet and was told to just drop it.
Lewis remains the most interesting candidate to me from a "read the temperature of the party" point of view. She is solidly socially conservative, the perfect candidate for Bible Belt Christians who hate abortion (and vaccines) and want to prove they're not racist.
Also doesn't speak a word of french if I recall correctly. Most of you don't care, but it's at least one or two strikes against you in Qc, and they might not have a lot of MPs there, but that's not gonna help them get more.
I have a really hard time seeing how they keep the party governable, any move to the right gives em less MPs, any move to the center makes a bunch of the current MPs want to revolt and they need that get elected. They can't split or they'll get marginalized.
But they still got more votes than the libs last election though, so let us pray the libs don't score a hat trick in their own goal before the next election. (I don't like the libs but better them than the conservatives).
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:07 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's partly about electing MPs in Quebec, it's also about splitting the race, making the BQ more electable, and weakening the Liberals.
posted by Rumple at 2:10 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by Rumple at 2:10 PM on February 2, 2022
The Beaverton has a suggestion on the new leader
posted by nubs at 2:11 PM on February 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by nubs at 2:11 PM on February 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
Speaking of which, what is Kevin O'Leary up to these days or is he not sufficiently reactionary enough as a celebrity blowhard to be coronated like so many other gasbags in other countries?
I think killing someone with your boat (even if you told the police your wife was at the wheel) is a Chappaquiddick for Canadians.
Didn't pandemic mishandling sink brother Doug's chances?
That and about six things that others have listed above. DoFo's IQ approaches the three-digit mark, but I must give him credit that unlike many politicians, he ultimately seems to listen to his advisors, He was told to sit down and shut up for months during the last two federal elections, and he is a company man, so he did this. Two things seem to militate against Ford taking the federal reins:
1) The last time a provincial premier became a federal prime minister was not in this century, and it was not in the last one either. Generally politicians can move up and down between levels because they can often endear themselves enough to their constituents that people will put an X next the pol's name, whatever piece of paper it appears on. Federally, though... there are people in (Ontario/Quebec/the Prairies/the Atlantic provinces) who will never ever vote for a party led by someone from (Ontario/Quebec/the Prairies/the Atlantic provinces). This keeps DoFo and Kenney out of serious contention.
2) The Queen's Park/Parliament Hill axis is a see-saw. If there is a right-wing party in one, the next election at the other level will go more progressive and vice versa; I suppose it is the same punish-them-somehow dynamic as how in the US whatever party has the presidency almost always loses seats in the next midterms. Off the top of my head, I thing the GOP picked up a couple of seats in 2002 when a pre-Katrina Dubya was the focus of post-9/11 support. Before that, I think FDR's first term was the last time the party in the Oval Office picked up seats and before that... you might be back to muttonchop times.
So: I grew up in Ontario. As a kid, it was Bill Davis (PC) as premier and Pierre Trudeau (L) as PM. At some point in the eighties this gives way to Premier Peterson (L) and the Rae (NDP) while Mulroney was PM. Then we go to Mike Harris (PC) and Chretien, which gives way to McGuinty/Wynne and Harper.
Mathematically, I think if DoFo tries to ascend, he will lose federally if his successor as premier somehow hangs on to power for the Tories. If -- as seem more likely to me -- the voters in Ontario kick the PCs out in June, he will be loathed by the erstwhile Ford Nation for runig off while facing a set of challenges federally that he must know he's not cut out for. He was more or less adequate as a city councillor, following RoFo's scheme of arbitrating apple tree windfalls and getting potholes filled. As premier, he'd like nothing better than to just fuck around with Toronto city council and put up more "Open for Business" signs at the border crossings. He definitely didn't sign up for a pandemic. I can't imagine he wants to deal with the UN Security Council seat or arms deals with Saudi Arabia, or that anyone would want him to.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:12 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think killing someone with your boat (even if you told the police your wife was at the wheel) is a Chappaquiddick for Canadians.
Didn't pandemic mishandling sink brother Doug's chances?
That and about six things that others have listed above. DoFo's IQ approaches the three-digit mark, but I must give him credit that unlike many politicians, he ultimately seems to listen to his advisors, He was told to sit down and shut up for months during the last two federal elections, and he is a company man, so he did this. Two things seem to militate against Ford taking the federal reins:
1) The last time a provincial premier became a federal prime minister was not in this century, and it was not in the last one either. Generally politicians can move up and down between levels because they can often endear themselves enough to their constituents that people will put an X next the pol's name, whatever piece of paper it appears on. Federally, though... there are people in (Ontario/Quebec/the Prairies/the Atlantic provinces) who will never ever vote for a party led by someone from (Ontario/Quebec/the Prairies/the Atlantic provinces). This keeps DoFo and Kenney out of serious contention.
2) The Queen's Park/Parliament Hill axis is a see-saw. If there is a right-wing party in one, the next election at the other level will go more progressive and vice versa; I suppose it is the same punish-them-somehow dynamic as how in the US whatever party has the presidency almost always loses seats in the next midterms. Off the top of my head, I thing the GOP picked up a couple of seats in 2002 when a pre-Katrina Dubya was the focus of post-9/11 support. Before that, I think FDR's first term was the last time the party in the Oval Office picked up seats and before that... you might be back to muttonchop times.
So: I grew up in Ontario. As a kid, it was Bill Davis (PC) as premier and Pierre Trudeau (L) as PM. At some point in the eighties this gives way to Premier Peterson (L) and the Rae (NDP) while Mulroney was PM. Then we go to Mike Harris (PC) and Chretien, which gives way to McGuinty/Wynne and Harper.
Mathematically, I think if DoFo tries to ascend, he will lose federally if his successor as premier somehow hangs on to power for the Tories. If -- as seem more likely to me -- the voters in Ontario kick the PCs out in June, he will be loathed by the erstwhile Ford Nation for runig off while facing a set of challenges federally that he must know he's not cut out for. He was more or less adequate as a city councillor, following RoFo's scheme of arbitrating apple tree windfalls and getting potholes filled. As premier, he'd like nothing better than to just fuck around with Toronto city council and put up more "Open for Business" signs at the border crossings. He definitely didn't sign up for a pandemic. I can't imagine he wants to deal with the UN Security Council seat or arms deals with Saudi Arabia, or that anyone would want him to.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:12 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Doug Ford does not speak French so immediately that's like a disqualify.
posted by storybored at 2:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by storybored at 2:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think killing someone with your boat (even if you told the police your wife was at the wheel) is a Chappaquiddick for Canadians.
Beyond that, there was some stuff about how much time he spends in the States as opposed to Canada that started to get coverage when he ran for leader a couple of empty suits ago (the one Scheer won?); that would be the kind of thing that could sink a federal campaign, especially since that was used as a bit of a cudgel against Ignatieff.
posted by nubs at 2:24 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Beyond that, there was some stuff about how much time he spends in the States as opposed to Canada that started to get coverage when he ran for leader a couple of empty suits ago (the one Scheer won?); that would be the kind of thing that could sink a federal campaign, especially since that was used as a bit of a cudgel against Ignatieff.
posted by nubs at 2:24 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Jordan Peterson is shithouse rat crazy, and as amusing as it would be to see him drive the CPC off a cliff, that would probably be bad for the country.
He is idolized, idolized, by millions, and IMHO stands a very good chance of winning if he can BS his way through debates like he does in his videos. Compared to the folks who just made a cool 9 mil in two weeks off a Smokey and the Bandit run, we might very lucky to have his flaccid conscience in the PM office saying no to death camps.
As repellant as he is, he's more thoughtful than Ford.
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:30 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
He is idolized, idolized, by millions, and IMHO stands a very good chance of winning if he can BS his way through debates like he does in his videos. Compared to the folks who just made a cool 9 mil in two weeks off a Smokey and the Bandit run, we might very lucky to have his flaccid conscience in the PM office saying no to death camps.
As repellant as he is, he's more thoughtful than Ford.
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:30 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
We're talking about the Jordan Peterson who got himself put into a medical coma in Russia in order to kick a drug habit, right?
posted by clawsoon at 2:34 PM on February 2, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 2:34 PM on February 2, 2022 [17 favorites]
Peterson did run to be a vice-president of the Alberta NDP (a very long time ago). Possibly not disqualifying for those who like him being a frothing reactionary, but who knows.
posted by figurant at 2:38 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by figurant at 2:38 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
"Other/None/Don't Know" got 40%. There are votes available to be taken. It's anybody's guess how they'll be taken.
No, they're not. Many of them are PPC, Bloc and Green voters. According to the poll, only 15% answered none of the above and 13% answered don't know. Presumably, of those 28% a significant portion would be the people who aren't actually going to vote. There are also people who vote for their local candidate and not for the party (and so may not answer the who is the best leader question as you might imagine). The actual number of people who vote and don't already have at least a preference is probably quite small.
posted by ssg at 2:42 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
No, they're not. Many of them are PPC, Bloc and Green voters. According to the poll, only 15% answered none of the above and 13% answered don't know. Presumably, of those 28% a significant portion would be the people who aren't actually going to vote. There are also people who vote for their local candidate and not for the party (and so may not answer the who is the best leader question as you might imagine). The actual number of people who vote and don't already have at least a preference is probably quite small.
posted by ssg at 2:42 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
In fact, in that same survey, the percentage of people who said they don't know who they would vote for if there were an election was only 9%.
posted by ssg at 2:46 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by ssg at 2:46 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
No, they're not. Many of them are PPC, Bloc and Green voters.
I'm too lazy to look up the numbers right now, but my impression is that the vote share for each of those parties is pretty volatile. (Well... except for the PPC, which doesn't have much of a history to go on.)
posted by clawsoon at 3:00 PM on February 2, 2022
I'm too lazy to look up the numbers right now, but my impression is that the vote share for each of those parties is pretty volatile. (Well... except for the PPC, which doesn't have much of a history to go on.)
posted by clawsoon at 3:00 PM on February 2, 2022
He is idolized, idolized, by millions
Hahahahahaha, no. Not in Canada he's not, even less so outside the libertarian-lite wing of the Conservative party. He's at best a novelty candidate, like Kevin O'Leary or Michael Ignatieff, and that doesn't get you anything in Canada. Legacy candidate, sure, those are fine, so if Caroline Mulroney is looking to go federal there's a place for her.
Scheer and O'Toole were both attempts to remain palatable to a national audience while still holding some attraction from the base, and both failed miserably. The Conservatives will draw the wrong conclusion from this and choose someone who panders to the base, while nationally viable candidates are likely to sit out this round. There will be an election in 2023, with the CPC and PPC vying for the same vote share and both falling behind NDP territory for seats & votes. After that, someone's going to get lucky against a tired Liberal party.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 3:04 PM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
Hahahahahaha, no. Not in Canada he's not, even less so outside the libertarian-lite wing of the Conservative party. He's at best a novelty candidate, like Kevin O'Leary or Michael Ignatieff, and that doesn't get you anything in Canada. Legacy candidate, sure, those are fine, so if Caroline Mulroney is looking to go federal there's a place for her.
Scheer and O'Toole were both attempts to remain palatable to a national audience while still holding some attraction from the base, and both failed miserably. The Conservatives will draw the wrong conclusion from this and choose someone who panders to the base, while nationally viable candidates are likely to sit out this round. There will be an election in 2023, with the CPC and PPC vying for the same vote share and both falling behind NDP territory for seats & votes. After that, someone's going to get lucky against a tired Liberal party.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 3:04 PM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
Ultimately a party in disarray is bad because I think, as mentioned above, when a party falls apart the rest of the parties tend to go in directions that are unhelpful.
This all really feels like a Night of the Wrong Knives.
But like a lot of leadership imbroglios, it might be a little while before we hear more about the backroom shenanigans that led up to this, and what it portends for the party longer-term.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:04 PM on February 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
This all really feels like a Night of the Wrong Knives.
But like a lot of leadership imbroglios, it might be a little while before we hear more about the backroom shenanigans that led up to this, and what it portends for the party longer-term.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:04 PM on February 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
He is idolized, idolized, by millions, and IMHO stands a very good chance of winning if he can BS his way through debates like he does in his videos.
I was somewhat joking about Jordan Peterson because despite his name recognition, his personal life much less political career (if any) seems to have imploded, he got hooked onto benzos and his daughter's all-meat diet(???)
Peterson did run to be a vice-president of the Alberta NDP (a very long time ago).
Well that's just darling, and rich in delicious dramatic irony.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:29 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was somewhat joking about Jordan Peterson because despite his name recognition, his personal life much less political career (if any) seems to have imploded, he got hooked onto benzos and his daughter's all-meat diet(???)
Peterson did run to be a vice-president of the Alberta NDP (a very long time ago).
Well that's just darling, and rich in delicious dramatic irony.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:29 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
So far I've seen Poilievre's name about a dozen times from random online conservatives, Lewis's name once, and no other contenders. So he seems to have the random online commenter vote locked up, anyway.
posted by clawsoon at 3:37 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 3:37 PM on February 2, 2022
That's my impression. His is one one name that I've heard actually talking about. Of course, early betting favourites aren't guaranteed to hit the wire first, but he does seem to have the early buzz. Ambrose is the other name I've heard, but much less frequently.
posted by sardonyx at 3:42 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by sardonyx at 3:42 PM on February 2, 2022
(the one Scheer won?)
Oh man. Until I read that I had forgotten about Scheer entirely.
posted by aclevername at 3:52 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh man. Until I read that I had forgotten about Scheer entirely.
posted by aclevername at 3:52 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
→
I've always hoped that there was a link between JP and Bob the Angry Flower, and now it's confirmed.
(Rachel's brother is the creator of BtAF, if it's not clear.)
posted by scruss at 3:59 PM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
Peterson did run to be a vice-president of the Alberta NDP (a very long time ago).
I've always hoped that there was a link between JP and Bob the Angry Flower, and now it's confirmed.
(Rachel's brother is the creator of BtAF, if it's not clear.)
posted by scruss at 3:59 PM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
Night of the Wrong Knives 😂
posted by sixswitch at 4:07 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 4:07 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
As repellant as [Jordan Peterson] is, he's more thoughtful than Ford.
OMG, this is what it's come to.
Seriously, I think this outcome is a hilarious "own goal," since now the protestors have ensured that PM JT will be able to do pretty much whatever he wants in the short to mid-term, as there's no way they can afford to bring down the government and trigger an election when they are in such a mess.
posted by rpfields at 4:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
OMG, this is what it's come to.
Seriously, I think this outcome is a hilarious "own goal," since now the protestors have ensured that PM JT will be able to do pretty much whatever he wants in the short to mid-term, as there's no way they can afford to bring down the government and trigger an election when they are in such a mess.
posted by rpfields at 4:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Paul Wells: I’m not sure how the party deals with that, but I’ve got a hunch it’s not a great year for Michael Chong to run for the leadership. I suspect the party will now spend a few years indulging its inner Ted Cruz, which means a mix of conviction, mercenary play-acting, and skittish tactical feints to protect the party’s right flank against even further-right opponents, led by the (luckily terrible-at-politics) Max Bernier.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
After her surprisingly strong third-place finish in the 2020 leadership race, Leslyn Lewis wrote a National Post editorial accusing Trudeau of a "socialist coup." She's the kind of wingnut that worries me.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 4:25 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Gerald Bostock at 4:25 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Presumably none of the leading candidates this time around will leave the points-rich but vote-poor Quebec ridings uncontested like they did last time.
posted by clawsoon at 4:31 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 4:31 PM on February 2, 2022
Erin O'Toole is the MP of my parents' riding, and my dad -- a lifelong lefty, but in a "big tent we're all trying our best" kind of way -- seems to kind of be in the H.I. McDunnough "he seems to be a decent man, maybe his advisors are confused" camp when it comes to O'Toole.
My wife and I are definitely in the "lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas" camp, and feel that anyone who happily breaks bread with Nazis isn't much better than one, but dad kind of has me thinking that O'Toole is possibly better than the party.
Possibly, were he not from a part of Ontario where "no more lockdown" signs festoon the roads like clusters of poison ivy, and where my high school still calls its sports team the "Rebels" and only recently retired its Confederate soldier mascot, he would have been happier as a Liberal backbencher than having to try to connect Mulroney-era conservatism with the growing frenzy of Trumpian madness.
But here we are, and well, lie down with dogs wake up with fleas, guy. Sorry your crazy party was too crazy for your Crazy Lite ass.
posted by Shepherd at 4:33 PM on February 2, 2022 [14 favorites]
My wife and I are definitely in the "lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas" camp, and feel that anyone who happily breaks bread with Nazis isn't much better than one, but dad kind of has me thinking that O'Toole is possibly better than the party.
Possibly, were he not from a part of Ontario where "no more lockdown" signs festoon the roads like clusters of poison ivy, and where my high school still calls its sports team the "Rebels" and only recently retired its Confederate soldier mascot, he would have been happier as a Liberal backbencher than having to try to connect Mulroney-era conservatism with the growing frenzy of Trumpian madness.
But here we are, and well, lie down with dogs wake up with fleas, guy. Sorry your crazy party was too crazy for your Crazy Lite ass.
posted by Shepherd at 4:33 PM on February 2, 2022 [14 favorites]
I've always hoped that there was a link between JP and Bob the Angry Flower, and now it's confirmed.
Even better, the provincial NDP leader at the time was Grant Notley, dad of former premier Rachel Notley and cartoonist Stephen Notley (BtAF). For a long time (1971-84) Grant was the only NDP member in the Alberta legislature and the party was run on a shoestring, so no wonder it could attract fringey wierdos like young Master Peterson. Fortunately JorPee was nowhere to be found when the NDP suddenly ate Edmonton in '86 and formed the official opposition, and in many ways laid the groundwork for their win in 2015.
posted by hangashore at 4:47 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
Even better, the provincial NDP leader at the time was Grant Notley, dad of former premier Rachel Notley and cartoonist Stephen Notley (BtAF). For a long time (1971-84) Grant was the only NDP member in the Alberta legislature and the party was run on a shoestring, so no wonder it could attract fringey wierdos like young Master Peterson. Fortunately JorPee was nowhere to be found when the NDP suddenly ate Edmonton in '86 and formed the official opposition, and in many ways laid the groundwork for their win in 2015.
posted by hangashore at 4:47 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's funny in an odd way. Did those nutty-truckers have an effect on this event?
0'Toole flippered back and forth on policy too much, he could maybe have done better with a more gradual lean towards the centre. I always say that a not-stupid Red-Tory could just run on Justin's platform and beat him in an election, but they don't listen to me, thankfully.
Coming out of the gate, Poilievre seems like the right-swinging most-likely, but anything could happen...
(there was some really weird shit that went down in Ontario when Patrick Brown was suddenly shoved out and Doug Ford rather crudely shoved into his place. (I doubt that Ford is going for this thing, as much as I'd like for him to leave Queen's Park; I highly advise him to go for it).).
posted by ovvl at 6:18 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
0'Toole flippered back and forth on policy too much, he could maybe have done better with a more gradual lean towards the centre. I always say that a not-stupid Red-Tory could just run on Justin's platform and beat him in an election, but they don't listen to me, thankfully.
Coming out of the gate, Poilievre seems like the right-swinging most-likely, but anything could happen...
(there was some really weird shit that went down in Ontario when Patrick Brown was suddenly shoved out and Doug Ford rather crudely shoved into his place. (I doubt that Ford is going for this thing, as much as I'd like for him to leave Queen's Park; I highly advise him to go for it).).
posted by ovvl at 6:18 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
I doubt that Ford is going for this thing, as much as I'd like for him to leave Queen's Park; I highly advise him to go for it
Not gonna lie - a highlight reel of Dougie in a French leaders' debate would be an absolute delight.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:29 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not gonna lie - a highlight reel of Dougie in a French leaders' debate would be an absolute delight.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:29 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
How come no one has talked about the new party interim leader yet.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:41 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by Apocryphon at 6:41 PM on February 2, 2022
^ look here, mando.. your dog-and-sausages characterization produced a snort from me and if you're going to hang around this thread and keep up the shenanigans, well.. thanks very much
posted by elkevelvet at 6:42 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 6:42 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think killing someone with your boat (even if you told the police your wife was at the wheel) is a Chappaquiddick for Canadians
I'm not sure if makes it harder to be a MP, but it doesn't stop you from being a premier.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:48 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure if makes it harder to be a MP, but it doesn't stop you from being a premier.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:48 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
For the record, the neighbour dog in question is a Very Good Boy. He was just hungry. PP, though? No idea what his excuse is.
How come no one has talked about the new party interim leader yet.
This Murphy Brown reboot looks terrible.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:48 PM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
How come no one has talked about the new party interim leader yet.
This Murphy Brown reboot looks terrible.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:48 PM on February 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
One really wonders what Skippy is going to do without a boss telling him what to say. He's never really been in a position to make any decisions on his own before. Harper had him as a permanent Parliamentary Secretary---apparently after a decade in the Cabinet Junior As even Harper felt that he just wasn't ready for a big chair at the Cabinet table.
He's always careful to have nice hair though.
posted by bonehead at 6:55 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
He's always careful to have nice hair though.
posted by bonehead at 6:55 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
How come no one has talked about the new party interim leader yet.
Wait, that's not a joke?
posted by clawsoon at 7:28 PM on February 2, 2022
Wait, that's not a joke?
posted by clawsoon at 7:28 PM on February 2, 2022
Unless CBC is now a subsite of the Beaverton, apparently not.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:33 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:33 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]
She’s a True Believer, that’s for sure.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:36 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:36 PM on February 2, 2022
The joke is on anyone who still thinks Canada is somehow above… well, anything.
posted by rodlymight at 7:46 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by rodlymight at 7:46 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
A big thank you to whoever on internet changed Bergen's Wiki picture to her wearing the MAGA hat, I couldn't figure out how to do that on my phone
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:42 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:42 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Aw someone already changed it back, boo
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:43 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:43 PM on February 2, 2022
Bergen is a Harperite true believer and she has the double whammy of being the MP for a riding in southern Manitoba which is not known for its progressive politics (though they are known for their Russian Mints, an absolute necessity at any Mennonite gathering often right next to the platz). At least she won't run for the leadership...
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:49 PM on February 2, 2022
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:49 PM on February 2, 2022
I don't think Peterson would have any interest in being Prime Minister. He might be delighted to serve as an external advisor and consultant to a Conservative PM.
posted by theorique at 5:14 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by theorique at 5:14 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was honestly quite worried about Peterson in the 2017 CPC race, when he was more culturally prominent and before his personal life got quite so wacky. His ability to make people feel good about their own worst impulses is Trump-level. It's difficult to imagine him surviving on the campaign trail in 2022, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he still sees himself as Canada's Philosopher King and Saviour. I hope he doesn't run.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:43 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 5:43 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Shepherd - It was his life-long ambition.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 5:54 AM on February 3, 2022
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 5:54 AM on February 3, 2022
Shepherd - It was his life-long ambition.
Me too, when I was in Grade 8.
posted by clawsoon at 5:58 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Me too, when I was in Grade 8.
posted by clawsoon at 5:58 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
YMMV I guess but even in grade 8 being PM seemed like a thankless, stressful job that would bring you nothing but hate in life. Maybe that was because Mulroney was the prime minister when I was in grade 8.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:03 AM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:03 AM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
I didn't figure that out until I saw Joe Clark working the Moose Lodge circuit in high school.
posted by clawsoon at 6:10 AM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 6:10 AM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
(After Googling: Today I learned that the Moose Lodge was (is?) a deeply racist organization.)
posted by clawsoon at 6:35 AM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 6:35 AM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Peterson did run to be a vice-president of the Alberta NDP (a very long time ago). Possibly not disqualifying for those who like him being a frothing reactionary, but who knows.
I like also that Jason Kenney was born in Oakville ON and quit school to work for the Saskatchewan Liberal Party. He doesn’t stress these things overmuch.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:41 AM on February 3, 2022
I like also that Jason Kenney was born in Oakville ON and quit school to work for the Saskatchewan Liberal Party. He doesn’t stress these things overmuch.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:41 AM on February 3, 2022
Trying to do some thinking about how this all shakes out longer term; I think the Liberals would be smart to push their agenda forward as much as possible now, as the CPC won't really want to topple things and cause an election. As you do so, keep Trudeau as the lightning rod, and then somewhere near the next election have him step aside for an "interim" leader like Freeland, and some of the frothing about Trudeau gets short-circuited.
I would love to figure out how the NDP leverage this moment to their advantage, but I can't see it - they seem in unfocused. So maybe they need to take some time to get their house in order.
posted by nubs at 7:29 AM on February 3, 2022
I would love to figure out how the NDP leverage this moment to their advantage, but I can't see it - they seem in unfocused. So maybe they need to take some time to get their house in order.
posted by nubs at 7:29 AM on February 3, 2022
Some part of Trudeau’s success is down to his personal charm, though. I think once he’s out, all bets are off.
posted by rodlymight at 7:49 AM on February 3, 2022
posted by rodlymight at 7:49 AM on February 3, 2022
a colleague yesterday made a comment that Trudeau needs to "show some leadership" and "unify Canadians."
the spectrum of Canadian politics is much more polarized (as we all know) than even 7 years ago. I spent yesterday trying to imagine a gesture or speech that Trudeau could have made, that would make any difference to e.g. "Freedom Convoy" types. I'm trying to imagine the next election where Trudeau or no Trudeau, the situation will be much different. People seem unhinged and the online space is feeding some of the worst appetites and allowing for unprecedented manipulation.. at least, that seems patently obvious to me.
I hope I'm wrong, but the next leader of the CPC will be a nasty piece of work and entirely fitted to the milieu of the type of politics we've created. The strategists are already scripting for individual Liberal personalities who show any likelihood of stepping forward to be leader (Freeland is the Finance Minister who added "obscene amounts of public debt" and she'll be tarnished by her proximity to Trudeau).
I get why the "Freedom Convoy" protestors weren't forcibly removed, but I also don't get it. That whole situation is as good an illustration of things as I can think of: hundreds of people breaking any number of laws and creating a lot of grief for big chunks of our capital city, and so far with impunity?
posted by elkevelvet at 8:48 AM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
the spectrum of Canadian politics is much more polarized (as we all know) than even 7 years ago. I spent yesterday trying to imagine a gesture or speech that Trudeau could have made, that would make any difference to e.g. "Freedom Convoy" types. I'm trying to imagine the next election where Trudeau or no Trudeau, the situation will be much different. People seem unhinged and the online space is feeding some of the worst appetites and allowing for unprecedented manipulation.. at least, that seems patently obvious to me.
I hope I'm wrong, but the next leader of the CPC will be a nasty piece of work and entirely fitted to the milieu of the type of politics we've created. The strategists are already scripting for individual Liberal personalities who show any likelihood of stepping forward to be leader (Freeland is the Finance Minister who added "obscene amounts of public debt" and she'll be tarnished by her proximity to Trudeau).
I get why the "Freedom Convoy" protestors weren't forcibly removed, but I also don't get it. That whole situation is as good an illustration of things as I can think of: hundreds of people breaking any number of laws and creating a lot of grief for big chunks of our capital city, and so far with impunity?
posted by elkevelvet at 8:48 AM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
I get why the "Freedom Convoy" protestors weren't forcibly removed, but I also don't get it. That whole situation is as good an illustration of things as I can think of: hundreds of people breaking any number of laws and creating a lot of grief for big chunks of our capital city, and so far with impunity?
But elkevelvet, these are *white* people.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:52 AM on February 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
But elkevelvet, these are *white* people.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:52 AM on February 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
"The strategists are already scripting for individual Liberal personalities who show any likelihood of stepping forward to be leader..."
My money's on Mark Carney. He's been making careful steps to increase his visibility, especially with the obligatory showcase book.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:14 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
My money's on Mark Carney. He's been making careful steps to increase his visibility, especially with the obligatory showcase book.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:14 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's really fucking awkward for cops to ticket, much lest arrest, their own family members.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:15 AM on February 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:15 AM on February 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
Or their off-duty colleagues.
posted by hangashore at 9:26 AM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by hangashore at 9:26 AM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
→
That bit I knew. I've been following BTaF for a while, and remember a few strips where Grant was sketched as a background character
posted by scruss at 9:35 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Even better, the provincial NDP leader at the time was Grant Notley, dad of former premier Rachel Notley and cartoonist Stephen Notley (BtAF).
That bit I knew. I've been following BTaF for a while, and remember a few strips where Grant was sketched as a background character
posted by scruss at 9:35 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh absolutely, I figured I'd add it in for the benefit of those of us playing along at home.
posted by hangashore at 9:41 AM on February 3, 2022
posted by hangashore at 9:41 AM on February 3, 2022
I really dig Bob the Angry Flower, but there's something about Griwkowsky's Bill Benson series that always hit me direct-like
posted by elkevelvet at 9:48 AM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 9:48 AM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
The joke is on anyone who still thinks Canada is somehow above… well, anything.
Well geographically, you guys still are
posted by Apocryphon at 10:27 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well geographically, you guys still are
posted by Apocryphon at 10:27 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, we're all still: Livin' on Top (of the USA). At least until the next pole shift.
posted by house-goblin at 10:37 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by house-goblin at 10:37 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
This O'Toole tweet from February 2020 aged well:
Enough is enough. Its time for the Trudeau government to stand up for the rule of law.
Blockades are not protests - they are an attack on the freedom of Canadians to live their lives and travel freely through their own country.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:51 AM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
Enough is enough. Its time for the Trudeau government to stand up for the rule of law.
Blockades are not protests - they are an attack on the freedom of Canadians to live their lives and travel freely through their own country.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:51 AM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
But elkevelvet, these are *white* people.
I suspect their political orientation is just as important as their skin tone.
Because, try as I might, I just can't see a protest organized by white anarchists (or one of the marxist splinter groups I see on my federal ballots--who I assume are white) and attended by a few thousand leftists, getting anything close to the same treatment. I can't even see them making it past, or even very far into, Alberta.
posted by house-goblin at 11:06 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
I suspect their political orientation is just as important as their skin tone.
Because, try as I might, I just can't see a protest organized by white anarchists (or one of the marxist splinter groups I see on my federal ballots--who I assume are white) and attended by a few thousand leftists, getting anything close to the same treatment. I can't even see them making it past, or even very far into, Alberta.
posted by house-goblin at 11:06 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
oh hell, if we are talking Alberta I only need to go back to an outdoor event where a few people gathered to hear from Joe Ceci and the federal (no-hope) candidate, just before the federal election.. typical stuff: get a few people to sign up, hopefully a few donations to the ANDP, maybe sell a couple of orange shirts. It was only a single pick-up full of guys who shouted "COMMIES" so I guess.. pretty mild for rural Alberta?
this is a display of power and privilege: this "Freedom Convoy" is demonstrating what you can get away with if your grievance aligns to the right agendas.. the authority types either agree with all this bullshit, or they're scared of the mess if they try to shut it down. Either way, bad for Canada. It's like letting the bratty kid run the household and dominating everyone.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:31 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
this is a display of power and privilege: this "Freedom Convoy" is demonstrating what you can get away with if your grievance aligns to the right agendas.. the authority types either agree with all this bullshit, or they're scared of the mess if they try to shut it down. Either way, bad for Canada. It's like letting the bratty kid run the household and dominating everyone.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:31 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Conservatives starting to wonder if it’s a mistake to always choose the least likeable person on earth as leader [SLBeaverton]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:55 AM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:55 AM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
I've been accused of having a "I shit my pants" face in photos, but that Erin O'Toole pic in the Beaverton article.. too much
And that pic of Scheer looks like someone with a "let me bury my face in your shitty pants" kink
posted by elkevelvet at 1:08 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
And that pic of Scheer looks like someone with a "let me bury my face in your shitty pants" kink
posted by elkevelvet at 1:08 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
The Conservative Party's identity crisis, post O'Toole by Jen Gerson - she is on the conservative side of the spectrum, but I often find her writing quite thoughtful.
...The Conservative Party is now confronted with a full-blown crisis of identity, and none of the incentives bend toward moderation. Now that they’ve booted the last leader for flip-flopping and failing to be Conservative enough, any future leader will be required to placate the most extreme elements in the caucus room. It’s possible that this will not lead to a bad outcome.
posted by nubs at 1:35 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
...The Conservative Party is now confronted with a full-blown crisis of identity, and none of the incentives bend toward moderation. Now that they’ve booted the last leader for flip-flopping and failing to be Conservative enough, any future leader will be required to placate the most extreme elements in the caucus room. It’s possible that this will not lead to a bad outcome.
posted by nubs at 1:35 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
From TVO: 'Anything to end the insanity': A Tory insider on O’Toole’s ouster
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:09 PM on February 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:09 PM on February 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
I know politics is an unrelenting bloodsport at the best of times, but this, from that "insider source," is something:
Conservative: Our recent caucus meetings have been just shitshows. The media describes that politely as "raucous" or "rowdy" or whatever, but they've been absolutely miserable experiences all January. And I think this was part of the strategy, too. This was a war of attrition. Make everyone miserable. Make everyone angry. And then, once you've got the votes, you put forward the Reform Act vote and people seize on it, right? Oh fine, anything to end the insanity.
[laughs]
I shouldn't laugh. It's not funny. But I keep thinking about our class of '21 — the newly elected MPs. People who gave up careers and moved across the country and are completely altering their family lives. This is what their first experiences are like? They have to be wondering what the hell they're doing. So our little rebel faction in caucus, they can keep this up forever. They can do little things, they can do big things, but they can play the long game and keep everyone miserable and on edge.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:15 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Conservative: Our recent caucus meetings have been just shitshows. The media describes that politely as "raucous" or "rowdy" or whatever, but they've been absolutely miserable experiences all January. And I think this was part of the strategy, too. This was a war of attrition. Make everyone miserable. Make everyone angry. And then, once you've got the votes, you put forward the Reform Act vote and people seize on it, right? Oh fine, anything to end the insanity.
[laughs]
I shouldn't laugh. It's not funny. But I keep thinking about our class of '21 — the newly elected MPs. People who gave up careers and moved across the country and are completely altering their family lives. This is what their first experiences are like? They have to be wondering what the hell they're doing. So our little rebel faction in caucus, they can keep this up forever. They can do little things, they can do big things, but they can play the long game and keep everyone miserable and on edge.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:15 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
oh wow, that conversation really comes across as quite candid (to whatever extent it is a candid exchange.. I certainly get a sense of the hectic period leading up to O'Toole's ouster, the lack of sleep, etc).
The final bit really sticks out:
Gurney: One last question. We've talked about the part of the party that wants to lean populist, that didn't want to do what O'Toole wanted. But there's another part. He lost the vote, but dozens and dozens of MPs voted for him to remain leader, probably because they liked what he was doing and where he was taking the party. How do they feel today?
Conservative: [longest pause yet] Alone. I think they feel very alone. They will wait to see who the new leader is, probably. But I've talked to some of them already. And they are wondering what the hell they're doing here.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:34 PM on February 3, 2022
The final bit really sticks out:
Gurney: One last question. We've talked about the part of the party that wants to lean populist, that didn't want to do what O'Toole wanted. But there's another part. He lost the vote, but dozens and dozens of MPs voted for him to remain leader, probably because they liked what he was doing and where he was taking the party. How do they feel today?
Conservative: [longest pause yet] Alone. I think they feel very alone. They will wait to see who the new leader is, probably. But I've talked to some of them already. And they are wondering what the hell they're doing here.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:34 PM on February 3, 2022
progressive conservative party! progressive conservative party! do it do it do it
posted by saturday_morning at 2:44 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by saturday_morning at 2:44 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Not necessarily progressive, but progressive if necessary."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:17 PM on February 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:17 PM on February 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
Seems like the most important qualification for a Conservative leader isn't being electable in Alberta or Ontario or Quebec, it's being able to navigate internal party politics. Harper ruled with an iron fist; Scheer and O'Toole got stabbed in the back; McKay didn't even get that far. I thought Kenney could have pulled it off, but he went to Alberta and imploded instead.
Who are the people in the party who made the leadership vote happen? Where did they get their playbook, and who is helping them with their funding and organizing?
posted by Gerald Bostock at 4:06 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Who are the people in the party who made the leadership vote happen? Where did they get their playbook, and who is helping them with their funding and organizing?
posted by Gerald Bostock at 4:06 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Seems like the most important qualification for a Conservative leader isn't being electable in Alberta or Ontario or Quebec, it's being able to navigate internal party politics.
It was ever thus. Hence the famous Diefenbaker quote "What's the difference between a porcupine and the Tory caucus? A porcupine has all its pricks on the outside."
posted by rpfields at 4:41 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
It was ever thus. Hence the famous Diefenbaker quote "What's the difference between a porcupine and the Tory caucus? A porcupine has all its pricks on the outside."
posted by rpfields at 4:41 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'd imagine that those from abroad who are not fascinated by the Canadian parliamentary opposition shadow cabinet must be puzzled and intrigued by headlines like Conservative MPs oust Erin O’Toole; MP Candice Bergen steps in as interim leader.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:51 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:51 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
I thought Kenney could have pulled it off, but he went to Alberta and imploded instead.
Eight or ten years ago, I would have bet large sums that Kenney was being lined up to succeed Harper as leader. Of course, Harper lost in 2015 and it was during the transitional period when Rona Ambrose was interim leader that Kenney ducked out the side door to Alberta. I suspect he did not want to be the scapegoat for the sins of Harper and any lingering distaste for the Tories (and given how Ambrose's two full-time successors have fared, he may have made the right choice).
As I said upthread, premiers don't have much success trying to become PMs, but I wonder if there are meetings going on this week in Alberta trying to gauge whether Trudeau will be unpopular enough by the next election to gamble on Kenney trying to return to federal politics.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:06 PM on February 3, 2022
Eight or ten years ago, I would have bet large sums that Kenney was being lined up to succeed Harper as leader. Of course, Harper lost in 2015 and it was during the transitional period when Rona Ambrose was interim leader that Kenney ducked out the side door to Alberta. I suspect he did not want to be the scapegoat for the sins of Harper and any lingering distaste for the Tories (and given how Ambrose's two full-time successors have fared, he may have made the right choice).
As I said upthread, premiers don't have much success trying to become PMs, but I wonder if there are meetings going on this week in Alberta trying to gauge whether Trudeau will be unpopular enough by the next election to gamble on Kenney trying to return to federal politics.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:06 PM on February 3, 2022
Is Kenney unique in having gone from federal Cabinet to provincial premier?
In theory he could've been unique in coming back, since he had such a long history in the federal party, but considering that he's currently lining up his party for its second loss to the NDP in 40 years...
posted by clawsoon at 5:13 PM on February 3, 2022
In theory he could've been unique in coming back, since he had such a long history in the federal party, but considering that he's currently lining up his party for its second loss to the NDP in 40 years...
posted by clawsoon at 5:13 PM on February 3, 2022
Jean Charest and Lucien Bouchard at least have done the same in recent years -- been a cabinet minister and subsequently a provincial premier. If I pondered a bit, I might dig up more names from the sludge of Canadian electoral trivia at the bottom of my brain.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:46 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:46 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
Is Kenney unique in having gone from federal Cabinet to provincial premier?
Lucien Bouchard went from minister under Mulroney to PM of Quebec after the referendum. Jean Charest also when from minister under Mulroney & Campbell, and actually leader of the imploding Progressive Conservative party before going to lead the libs at the provincial level in Qc, and was elected PM in 2003.
Bob Rae also went, federal MP for the NDP, premier of Ontario and was a lib MP afterwards.
There must be others, but those come to mind.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 5:46 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
Lucien Bouchard went from minister under Mulroney to PM of Quebec after the referendum. Jean Charest also when from minister under Mulroney & Campbell, and actually leader of the imploding Progressive Conservative party before going to lead the libs at the provincial level in Qc, and was elected PM in 2003.
Bob Rae also went, federal MP for the NDP, premier of Ontario and was a lib MP afterwards.
There must be others, but those come to mind.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 5:46 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also Brian Tobin (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans under Chretien, NL premier from 1996 to 2000). To go waaaay back, there was Joseph-Alfred Mousseau, a member of John A. MacDonald's cabinet in 1880-82 who then served as Québec premier for 18 months in 1882-1884.
posted by hangashore at 5:57 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by hangashore at 5:57 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
Metafilter: the sludge of Canadian electoral trivia at the bottom of my brain.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:57 PM on February 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:57 PM on February 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
Okay, another one and I'm done. Angus MacLean was Minister of Fisheries in Diefenbaker's cabinet from 1957 to 1963, and was premier of Prince Edward Island from 1979 to 1981.
posted by hangashore at 6:14 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by hangashore at 6:14 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
Canadian electoral trivia...
a derail yes, but Eugene Whelan was cool
posted by ovvl at 7:01 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
a derail yes, but Eugene Whelan was cool
posted by ovvl at 7:01 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Canadian Politics Deep Cuts is one of my favourite Metafilter features.
posted by clawsoon at 7:03 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 7:03 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
a derail yes, but Eugene Whelan was cool
Speaking of that neck of the woods, I took a political science course taught by Howard Pawley, and it seemed like it took a while for some people in the class to catch on to the fact he'd been the premier of Manitoba.
I took it because I was like "Hey, poli sci course taught by an NDP premier of Manitoba, why the hell not?"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:10 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Speaking of that neck of the woods, I took a political science course taught by Howard Pawley, and it seemed like it took a while for some people in the class to catch on to the fact he'd been the premier of Manitoba.
I took it because I was like "Hey, poli sci course taught by an NDP premier of Manitoba, why the hell not?"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:10 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Pawley was a pretty fun lecturer because he wasn't too many years off sitting in a legislature/campaigning, etc. I would describe his lecture style as "arm-wavingly declamatory." It was not a boring class.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:19 PM on February 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:19 PM on February 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
In high school I had a chance to be part of a model parliament deal, which at some stage involved a trip to and tour of Queen's Park. I recall that the students ended up spending a couple of hours with the then-relatively new NDP leader Bob Rae, the unremarkable placeholder of the perpetual also-ran party. He was an affable thirty-something fellow, still enthusiastic about the job, and still most of a decade away from being premier and a good 35 years away from becoming the Canadian Ambassador to the United Nations.
A hell of a piano player, too.
In 1990 I was living with a woman who worked for Elections Ontario. She was a Liberal voter and I got to spend election night -- her 25th birthday -- with her at the Ontario Liberal Headquarters Victory Party. I recall a lot of people frowning at TV monitors, muttering, "These figures can't be right, can they?" Not much jubilation in the room that evening.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:26 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
A hell of a piano player, too.
In 1990 I was living with a woman who worked for Elections Ontario. She was a Liberal voter and I got to spend election night -- her 25th birthday -- with her at the Ontario Liberal Headquarters Victory Party. I recall a lot of people frowning at TV monitors, muttering, "These figures can't be right, can they?" Not much jubilation in the room that evening.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:26 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
I was at the Alberta NDP convention when Jordan Peterson ran for General Vice-President (I’m a year older than him). The brass were pretty upset about his candidacy. There was a fear that the labour contingent would walk out if he won. It was a little dicey because he was the protégé of the leader’s wife. I took a good look at him, of course. The only thing I remember about him are his lips: rather full and moist, I remember thinking.
posted by No Robots at 7:36 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by No Robots at 7:36 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
The only thing I remember about him are his lips: rather full and moist, I remember thinking.
The deep cuts are getting surreal.
posted by clawsoon at 7:39 PM on February 3, 2022 [9 favorites]
The deep cuts are getting surreal.
posted by clawsoon at 7:39 PM on February 3, 2022 [9 favorites]
The only thing I remember about him are his lips: rather full and moist, I remember thinking.
posted by No Robots at 10:36 PM on February 3 [1 favorite +] [!]
Was he, in your view, a robot? I understand if you have to recuse yourself here.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:39 PM on February 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by No Robots at 10:36 PM on February 3 [1 favorite +] [!]
Was he, in your view, a robot? I understand if you have to recuse yourself here.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:39 PM on February 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
Was he, in your view, a robot?
It would explain a lot. His recent trip to Russia could have been for power and interface upgrades that allow him to merge with fellow sketchbots Zuckerberg and Musk to form the megabot Evangelicon.
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:30 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
It would explain a lot. His recent trip to Russia could have been for power and interface upgrades that allow him to merge with fellow sketchbots Zuckerberg and Musk to form the megabot Evangelicon.
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:30 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
It will be interesting to see if the Tories will out crazy the PPC in the next election. Bergen is wasting no time.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:16 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:16 PM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hey, I am up for watching a race to the bottom but that is a dead link there, Ashwagandha. Looks like you have pasted in a headline and not a url.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:40 PM on February 3, 2022
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:40 PM on February 3, 2022
I'm no student of Canadian politics, despite living here.
But I'm frankly expecting the right-wing occupiers downtown to commit murder in the form of vehicular assault against counter-protestors, or a truck bomb, and then the political parties will get shaken up, and I won't have understood the change because I don't understand current Canadian politics.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:30 AM on February 4, 2022
But I'm frankly expecting the right-wing occupiers downtown to commit murder in the form of vehicular assault against counter-protestors, or a truck bomb, and then the political parties will get shaken up, and I won't have understood the change because I don't understand current Canadian politics.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:30 AM on February 4, 2022
Some part of Trudeau’s success is down to his personal charm, though.
I'm not sure if I'm alone in this, but Trudeau has always struck me as only being charming relative to Stephen Harper. Maybe that's because I've mostly heard him on the radio instead of seen him on TV? He doesn't seem to be a natural charmer like Layton or Mulroney or his own father.
posted by clawsoon at 4:38 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure if I'm alone in this, but Trudeau has always struck me as only being charming relative to Stephen Harper. Maybe that's because I've mostly heard him on the radio instead of seen him on TV? He doesn't seem to be a natural charmer like Layton or Mulroney or his own father.
posted by clawsoon at 4:38 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
a truck bomb
They've built an impromptu storage shed for propane cylinders and diesel cans overnight. I'm really hoping some government worker stops them before that actually happens. It's in the main plaza in front of City Hall (between it and the National Arts Centre).
posted by bonehead at 7:56 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
They've built an impromptu storage shed for propane cylinders and diesel cans overnight. I'm really hoping some government worker stops them before that actually happens. It's in the main plaza in front of City Hall (between it and the National Arts Centre).
posted by bonehead at 7:56 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
They protestors are literal plague carriers: A sharp jump in Ottawa's COVID-19 wastewater index when trucker convoy arrives
posted by bonehead at 7:57 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bonehead at 7:57 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am up for watching a race to the bottom but that is a dead link there, Ashwagandha
Oop sorry about that! Posting while exhausted is not recommended for me.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:51 AM on February 4, 2022
Oop sorry about that! Posting while exhausted is not recommended for me.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:51 AM on February 4, 2022
They've built an impromptu storage shed for propane cylinders and diesel cans overnight. I'm really hoping some government worker stops them before that actually happens. It's in the main plaza in front of City Hall (between it and the National Arts Centre).
I heard their about to pour some foundations... joking but that fuel/propane storage area doesn't inspire confidence.
I understand almost every gas station does more or less the same for tank exchange services but that's not in the middle of a protest zone, and usually behind bollards.
Wtf are the city of Ottawa & the province doing? I don't get it.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:30 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I heard their about to pour some foundations... joking but that fuel/propane storage area doesn't inspire confidence.
I understand almost every gas station does more or less the same for tank exchange services but that's not in the middle of a protest zone, and usually behind bollards.
Wtf are the city of Ottawa & the province doing? I don't get it.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:30 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've conducted test burns with diesel fuel before as part of my research. A couple of litres of diesel spread over a 2x2m pan, what we call an open pool burn, produced a chimney of flame that was 30 to 40m high that lasted for 10-12 minutes. It was visible from quite a long distance, kilometers away (we had the fire trucks called on us). These burn trials were conduced in Ottawa in similar weather, mid February.
I have no confidence in the safety of what they're doing.
posted by bonehead at 9:41 AM on February 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I have no confidence in the safety of what they're doing.
posted by bonehead at 9:41 AM on February 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think some of the leadership are hoping for working towards a Waco-style siege, with fires and martyrs, in order to justify an Oklahoma City-style bombing.
And they would regard each event as a propaganda win.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:52 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
And they would regard each event as a propaganda win.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:52 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
A good backgrounder on Poilievre from a local newssite.
Carleton MP Pierre Poilievre Endorses Downtown Anti COVID-19 Demonstrations
hattip to r/Ottawa.
posted by bonehead at 1:12 PM on February 5, 2022
Carleton MP Pierre Poilievre Endorses Downtown Anti COVID-19 Demonstrations
hattip to r/Ottawa.
posted by bonehead at 1:12 PM on February 5, 2022
Interesting poll by party here. ssg rightly pointed out in another thread that the sample sizes aren't large enough for the smaller parties to make any useful conclusions about them, but presumably it's useful for the Liberals and Conservatives.
And Conservatives are apparently split right down the middle on the convoy, which could (?) provide an opportunity for someone to challenge Poilievre.
posted by clawsoon at 4:02 PM on February 5, 2022
And Conservatives are apparently split right down the middle on the convoy, which could (?) provide an opportunity for someone to challenge Poilievre.
posted by clawsoon at 4:02 PM on February 5, 2022
Pierre Poilievre announces bid for Conservative Party leadership
posted by clawsoon at 4:46 PM on February 5, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 4:46 PM on February 5, 2022
That’s odd: Poilevre has said before he had no interest in the leadership. Of course he also advanced the idea of term limits before, arguing that MPs should be limited to two terms.
Poilevre is on his seventh term, if my memory serves me well.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:05 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Poilevre is on his seventh term, if my memory serves me well.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:05 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also... months old but still relevant: Conservatives starting to wonder if it’s a mistake to always choose the least likeable person on earth as leader
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:01 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:01 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Bowing out of the O'Toole race almost certainly was simply positioning on Poilievre's part. He may not have had the backers in place at that point.
He's never been the golden child of the Harperites and I think has struggled to get the Western wing behind him fully until now. I don't think Harper fully trusted him or had full confidence in him. Unlike his peers like Kenney or Baird, Poilievre was not allowed a full position in cabinet. He was always, save a 6 month stint at the end of the last mandate in 2015, a Parliamentary Secretary/Minister of State.
It's taken him seven years to be the last person standing. The CPC have literally gone through everyone else willing to stand, and Poilievre is what's left.
posted by bonehead at 7:38 AM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
He's never been the golden child of the Harperites and I think has struggled to get the Western wing behind him fully until now. I don't think Harper fully trusted him or had full confidence in him. Unlike his peers like Kenney or Baird, Poilievre was not allowed a full position in cabinet. He was always, save a 6 month stint at the end of the last mandate in 2015, a Parliamentary Secretary/Minister of State.
It's taken him seven years to be the last person standing. The CPC have literally gone through everyone else willing to stand, and Poilievre is what's left.
posted by bonehead at 7:38 AM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
The CPC have literally gone through everyone else willing to stand, and Poilievre is what's left.
Like a dog turd on a boulevard, glistening in the sun as the snow melts to reveal it.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:34 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Like a dog turd on a boulevard, glistening in the sun as the snow melts to reveal it.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:34 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
I would think his biggest drawback, aside from the obvious, is that he represents an Ottawa riding. Can he really get the Lethbridge base to support a guy who is literally from Ottawa, the place they hate more than any other place with the possible exception of Toronto?
posted by jacquilynne at 6:23 PM on February 6, 2022
posted by jacquilynne at 6:23 PM on February 6, 2022
He was a carpet bagger from Calgary. Though, after 7 elections, I'm not sure that really applies.
posted by bonehead at 6:29 PM on February 6, 2022
posted by bonehead at 6:29 PM on February 6, 2022
Leslyn Lewis got major support in Alberta, and she's a Black woman who grew up in Toronto. I wouldn't place too much store in parochialism.
posted by clawsoon at 6:32 PM on February 6, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 6:32 PM on February 6, 2022
(Put too much store in? Place too much store by? Buy too much from the store?)
posted by clawsoon at 6:39 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 6:39 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
(And Lethbridge in particular, as a university town, is one of the places that sometimes flips Liberal or NDP in provincial elections.)
posted by clawsoon at 7:02 PM on February 6, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 7:02 PM on February 6, 2022
Like a dog turd on a boulevard, glistening in the sun as the snow melts to reveal it.
This is Ottawa during the Freedom Convoy. Don’t assume it’s from a dog.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:18 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is Ottawa during the Freedom Convoy. Don’t assume it’s from a dog.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:18 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Any chance Poilievre could lose his Ottawa seat in the next election as a result of supporting the convoy? What are the local politics of his riding like?
posted by clawsoon at 1:11 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 1:11 PM on February 7, 2022
So it's been closeish in the recent past when the Liberals had a very good candidate in Chris Rogers. He almost unseated Poilievre in 2015 (margin of ~1500 votes). In 2019, Poilievre won with a more than 10,000 vote margin.
I think it's possible the Liberals could take it again. The demographics are shifting to younger, immigrant voters as the city grows into his riding. Riverside south and Findley Creek and so on. That's only going to accelerate in the next decade.
That said however, I think it's a moderately safe seat for a senior member as Poilievre would style himself now. Trudeau is very unpopular with the "traditional heritage" voters in their 0.5 acre mcmansions in Greeley and along the river.
posted by bonehead at 4:43 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think it's possible the Liberals could take it again. The demographics are shifting to younger, immigrant voters as the city grows into his riding. Riverside south and Findley Creek and so on. That's only going to accelerate in the next decade.
That said however, I think it's a moderately safe seat for a senior member as Poilievre would style himself now. Trudeau is very unpopular with the "traditional heritage" voters in their 0.5 acre mcmansions in Greeley and along the river.
posted by bonehead at 4:43 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
For the political junkies, there's a new Leger Poll today, done over the 4th to the 6th (so during some of the worst of the trucker protests).
One interesting result:
Which of the following would you prefer to be the next leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (CPC)?
10% - Pierre Poilievre
7% - Doug Ford
6% - Peter MacKay
4% - Rona Ambrose
3% - Maxime Bernier
3% - Jean Charest
2% - Andrew Scheer
2% - Patrick Brown
2% - Lisa Raitt
1% - Brad Wall
1% - Leslyn Lewis
1% - Michael Chong
6% - Someone else
13% - None of the above
38% - Don't know
No one on the the CPC leadership is ranked better than "None of the above" and even "Someone Else" is in third place. The CPC may be embracing Poilievre enthusiastically, but the rest of the country sure isn't. He's also a very well known figure politically; I'm not sure he has much wiggle room to grow into a more positively perceived leader. Don't want to underestimate his chances, but it shows the degree of the challenge ahead for the CPC electability.
posted by bonehead at 6:41 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
One interesting result:
Which of the following would you prefer to be the next leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (CPC)?
10% - Pierre Poilievre
7% - Doug Ford
6% - Peter MacKay
4% - Rona Ambrose
3% - Maxime Bernier
3% - Jean Charest
2% - Andrew Scheer
2% - Patrick Brown
2% - Lisa Raitt
1% - Brad Wall
1% - Leslyn Lewis
1% - Michael Chong
6% - Someone else
13% - None of the above
38% - Don't know
No one on the the CPC leadership is ranked better than "None of the above" and even "Someone Else" is in third place. The CPC may be embracing Poilievre enthusiastically, but the rest of the country sure isn't. He's also a very well known figure politically; I'm not sure he has much wiggle room to grow into a more positively perceived leader. Don't want to underestimate his chances, but it shows the degree of the challenge ahead for the CPC electability.
posted by bonehead at 6:41 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
And Ontario as a whole prefers Doug Ford over Poilievre.
Ford, Ambrose, Brown and Mackay have all said they're not interested.
Interesting too that Jason Kenney isn't listed.
posted by bonehead at 6:44 AM on February 8, 2022
Ford, Ambrose, Brown and Mackay have all said they're not interested.
Interesting too that Jason Kenney isn't listed.
posted by bonehead at 6:44 AM on February 8, 2022
Interesting too that Jason Kenney isn't listed.
Kenney is in real trouble; he sits at 26% approval in the last poll that I saw (and that was an improvement over the previous one. He's facing a leadership review in early April, and it's entirely possible that he could be voted out at that meeting. I don't think he's got a strong position from which to launch a bid for the leadership of the federal party.
posted by nubs at 7:21 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Kenney is in real trouble; he sits at 26% approval in the last poll that I saw (and that was an improvement over the previous one. He's facing a leadership review in early April, and it's entirely possible that he could be voted out at that meeting. I don't think he's got a strong position from which to launch a bid for the leadership of the federal party.
posted by nubs at 7:21 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
How is "someone else" not the same as "none of the above" what the fuck. If you combine them appropriately to 19%, almost twice Poilivere, you'd reach the conclusion that a sack of mouldy potatoes in a blue suit would handily win the vote. If you could convince it to run.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:49 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:49 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
I suspect the difference is "someone else" is someone specific that they named and "none of the above" is "I dunno, but those people suck" while "don't know" is "I am not sure if those people suck or not".
posted by jacquilynne at 8:57 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 8:57 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
No one on the the CPC leadership is ranked better than "None of the above" and even "Someone Else" is in third place.
That's for all respondents. Poilievre's doing a bit better in the CPC voter column, at 26% (vs. 23% for "Don't know"). It looks like the only ones doing worse there than with the general population are Mackay, Raitt, and Charest. And then there's the question of actual CPC member support.
posted by quizzical at 9:25 AM on February 8, 2022
That's for all respondents. Poilievre's doing a bit better in the CPC voter column, at 26% (vs. 23% for "Don't know"). It looks like the only ones doing worse there than with the general population are Mackay, Raitt, and Charest. And then there's the question of actual CPC member support.
posted by quizzical at 9:25 AM on February 8, 2022
Also, PPC voters seem to prefer him to their own guy? At least as leader of the CPC? I'm not sure how many chess-dimensions are involved in that result.
posted by quizzical at 9:33 AM on February 8, 2022
posted by quizzical at 9:33 AM on February 8, 2022
a sack of mouldy potatoes in a blue suit would handily win the vote.
I'd at least like to know the policy platform, but I am intrigued...
posted by nubs at 10:00 AM on February 8, 2022
I'd at least like to know the policy platform, but I am intrigued...
posted by nubs at 10:00 AM on February 8, 2022
a sack of mouldy potatoes in a blue suit would handily win the vote.
I'd at least like to know the policy platform
Yes. How would this candidate a-peel to voters?
*hangs head*
Yes, I'm leaving.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:16 AM on February 8, 2022
I'd at least like to know the policy platform
Yes. How would this candidate a-peel to voters?
*hangs head*
Yes, I'm leaving.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:16 AM on February 8, 2022
Yes. How would this candidate a-peel to voters?
They will talk about the blight infecting our land.
posted by clawsoon at 11:33 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
They will talk about the blight infecting our land.
posted by clawsoon at 11:33 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
If one of these candidates becomes Prime Minister, either our freedom will be fried or our French will be fried.
posted by clawsoon at 1:29 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 1:29 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
All in the service of defeating the Dauphin-oise of famille Trudeau.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:50 PM on February 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:50 PM on February 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
I recently saw a comparison of Harper to Tito which I thought was apt, in terms of how they both held together some unnatural alliances for a very long time.
posted by clawsoon at 3:37 PM on February 11, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 3:37 PM on February 11, 2022
twitch livefeeds from Winsor
Looks like the lunatic fringe isn't moving.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:20 PM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Looks like the lunatic fringe isn't moving.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:20 PM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
So it has been more than a week, and still only Poilievre? Is everybody else waiting for the protests to end, or what?
posted by clawsoon at 5:25 PM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 5:25 PM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Seems like there's some kind of calculation going on. Of what, exactly, its hard to tell right now.
But it's also telling that nobody's stood up and staked out some kind of "we're battling for the soul of the party" position contra Poilievre.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:08 AM on February 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
But it's also telling that nobody's stood up and staked out some kind of "we're battling for the soul of the party" position contra Poilievre.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:08 AM on February 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ah. Spoke too soon (maybe, I mean who the hell knows right now).
Chantal Hébert (Toronto Star, so paywalled, but here's an excerpt):
Barely two years ago, Jean Charest ruled out a run for the federal Conservative leadership because he could not see a path to victory. Now the former Quebec premier is once again seriously considering a bid, with a decision apparently to come over the next week or so. What changed?
[...]
Two years ago, many of those who were pushing Charest to run were former supporters, as often as not long-time associates from the Brian Mulroney era and the bygone days of the Progressive Conservative party.
Within the more recent ranks of the Conservative party, enthusiasm for a Charest bid was at best tepid.
Back then for instance, the former premier could not persuade then-Quebec lieutenant Alain Rayes — along with other Quebec MPs — to back his bid.
Instead Rayes opted to sit out the campaign.
At the same time, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney, then the leading provincial voice within the Canadian conservative movement, made it clear he would use his significant influence to keep Charest (and others like him, such as Peter MacKay) from taking the helm.
Stephen Harper would not give the former premier his blessing.
[...]
For his part, Rayes is all in this time. Earlier this week he resigned his caucus post, the better to participate in the leadership battle. He says he is looking for a fiscally conservative but socially progressive leader. He has been speaking with Charest. By all indications, he would be willing to play a leading role in his leadership campaign.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:57 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Chantal Hébert (Toronto Star, so paywalled, but here's an excerpt):
Barely two years ago, Jean Charest ruled out a run for the federal Conservative leadership because he could not see a path to victory. Now the former Quebec premier is once again seriously considering a bid, with a decision apparently to come over the next week or so. What changed?
[...]
Two years ago, many of those who were pushing Charest to run were former supporters, as often as not long-time associates from the Brian Mulroney era and the bygone days of the Progressive Conservative party.
Within the more recent ranks of the Conservative party, enthusiasm for a Charest bid was at best tepid.
Back then for instance, the former premier could not persuade then-Quebec lieutenant Alain Rayes — along with other Quebec MPs — to back his bid.
Instead Rayes opted to sit out the campaign.
At the same time, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney, then the leading provincial voice within the Canadian conservative movement, made it clear he would use his significant influence to keep Charest (and others like him, such as Peter MacKay) from taking the helm.
Stephen Harper would not give the former premier his blessing.
[...]
For his part, Rayes is all in this time. Earlier this week he resigned his caucus post, the better to participate in the leadership battle. He says he is looking for a fiscally conservative but socially progressive leader. He has been speaking with Charest. By all indications, he would be willing to play a leading role in his leadership campaign.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:57 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
It feels weird that the Hébert article doesn't mention that Charest was already leader of the federal PCs for 5 years.
I see that "battle for the soul of the party" is covered, though.
posted by clawsoon at 7:30 PM on February 13, 2022
I see that "battle for the soul of the party" is covered, though.
posted by clawsoon at 7:30 PM on February 13, 2022
A harvesting of souls, perhaps?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:31 PM on February 13, 2022
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:31 PM on February 13, 2022
A harvesting of souls, as weighted by riding...
posted by clawsoon at 8:01 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 8:01 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
We probably need to talk about what their policies on soul supply management* are.
* This message brought to you by the Ontario Soul Marketing Board.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:06 PM on February 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
* This message brought to you by the Ontario Soul Marketing Board.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:06 PM on February 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
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