Sedition Conspiracy Convictions in Proud Boys Case
May 4, 2023 9:25 AM Subscribe
Enriquie Tarrio and three other members of the terrorist Proud Boys were convicted today of seditious conspiracy in Washington, D.C. for their role in the January 6th insurrection. (SL Associated Press)
Yeah, that line of defense seems to miss that any form of conspiracy necessarily involves multiple people colluding to commit a crime.
posted by Ipsifendus at 9:37 AM on May 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Ipsifendus at 9:37 AM on May 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
Trump's brownshirts got convicted. Trump, a month before the election they later tried to violently overthrow: "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by”.
posted by Nelson at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2023 [19 favorites]
I think that line of defense might also miss the fact that the feds unfortunately did not put Trump on trial, so it didn't really matter what the defense attorney's opinions were on that.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:48 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:48 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, Trump is golfing and probably laughing his ass off at these morons who were dumb enough to think he gave a shit about them beyond their usefulness as weapons. Most of them, even the ones who are already in prison, would probably line up to do it again given the opportunity.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:58 AM on May 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:58 AM on May 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
Fucking good. Now get the rest of those treasonous fuckers.
posted by Windopaene at 10:00 AM on May 4, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 10:00 AM on May 4, 2023 [25 favorites]
I imagine these men are all vocal supporters of the death penalty. Certainly for high crimes.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:02 AM on May 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:02 AM on May 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
I imagine these men are all vocal supporters of the death penalty. Certainly for high crimes.
What they're vocal supporters of is the state murdering their enemies and any of their lessers who get out of line. They don't have anything you or I would understand as a procedural principle.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:05 AM on May 4, 2023 [62 favorites]
What they're vocal supporters of is the state murdering their enemies and any of their lessers who get out of line. They don't have anything you or I would understand as a procedural principle.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:05 AM on May 4, 2023 [62 favorites]
Trump cares about these guys immensely. He will pardon them the moment he gets into office.
More worrying to me is the number of other Republicans who would do the same, if they get the chance.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 10:12 AM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
More worrying to me is the number of other Republicans who would do the same, if they get the chance.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 10:12 AM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes, to be clear with the death penalty comment, I'm trying to point out the hypocrisy of the men, not advocating for the sentence. Of course hypocrisy is likely lost on the leader of a white supremacy organization with very dark skin.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:21 AM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:21 AM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is a bigger deal than most people are making of it. Like, ineligibility-of-that-asshole-to-seek-a-second-term big deal. Our own Eyebrows McGee explained why, in great detail, last year.
posted by Mayor West at 10:26 AM on May 4, 2023 [41 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 10:26 AM on May 4, 2023 [41 favorites]
Trump cares about these guys immensely.
He doesn’t give two shits about anybody other than himself. I would be shocked if he knew they were on trial. Of course he’ll pardon them because then they owe him. Other republicans would pardon them to own the libs. Assigning anything other than selfishness or lolz to these people is a fools errand.
posted by Uncle at 10:31 AM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
He doesn’t give two shits about anybody other than himself. I would be shocked if he knew they were on trial. Of course he’ll pardon them because then they owe him. Other republicans would pardon them to own the libs. Assigning anything other than selfishness or lolz to these people is a fools errand.
posted by Uncle at 10:31 AM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
He doesn't know who they are or care. I would imagine he prefers his insurgents not get captured.
posted by Dark Messiah at 10:35 AM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Dark Messiah at 10:35 AM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
Trump cares about these guys immensely. He will pardon them the moment he gets into office.
He might pardon them if he gets into office, if he decides they'll be useful to him after that, or by doing so he'll directly or indirectly derive some other monetary benefit from it.
Right now he doesn't care one bit about them, because they didn't deliver for him.
posted by tclark at 10:39 AM on May 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
He might pardon them if he gets into office, if he decides they'll be useful to him after that, or by doing so he'll directly or indirectly derive some other monetary benefit from it.
Right now he doesn't care one bit about them, because they didn't deliver for him.
posted by tclark at 10:39 AM on May 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
My wife was working in Fairfax county on January 6 and 7, doing public health. A bunch of those jerks were staying in hotels next to her office. She said she saw groups of angry-looking men carrying a lot of stuff (signs, guns) in the area, and many glowered at her and colleagues (identifiable as public health workers by location and big name badges). She was terrified.
Managers told them to not engage.
Nobody was hurt.
posted by doctornemo at 10:41 AM on May 4, 2023 [16 favorites]
Managers told them to not engage.
Nobody was hurt.
posted by doctornemo at 10:41 AM on May 4, 2023 [16 favorites]
This is a bigger deal than most people are making of it. Like, ineligibility-of-that-asshole-to-seek-a-second-term big deal. Our own Eyebrows McGee explained why, in great detail, last year.
I read that then, and just reread it today....and today, honestly my only reaction is "okay, yeah, maybe we could charge senators with conspiracy and sedition, but....who's actually going to file the complaint?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2023 [18 favorites]
I read that then, and just reread it today....and today, honestly my only reaction is "okay, yeah, maybe we could charge senators with conspiracy and sedition, but....who's actually going to file the complaint?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2023 [18 favorites]
Just thinking out laod here, but I seem to remember reading somewhere once about it being inadvisable to underestimate the enemy.
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:15 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:15 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Like, ineligibility-of-that-asshole-to-seek-a-second-term big deal.
Be very careful what you wish for. If Trump is the 2024 Republican nominee, as looks nearly certain at this point, he will lose very, very badly. If Trump is prevented from running, I'll bet you a quality sushi lunch that whoever replaces him wins and imposes Gilead.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Be very careful what you wish for. If Trump is the 2024 Republican nominee, as looks nearly certain at this point, he will lose very, very badly. If Trump is prevented from running, I'll bet you a quality sushi lunch that whoever replaces him wins and imposes Gilead.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:18 AM on May 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Seriously. There's wishful thinking and then there's...
The DoJ gets a conviction on this, there are several sitting members of Congress who will face expulsion and a permanent bar to serving in federal or state office. A bunch of GOP state legislators across the nation who will be expelled from their statehouses. Possibly some GOP governors. And a whooooooole bunch of Trump officials and spawn and lackeys will be permanently barred from ever seeking elected office in the United States, or from serving in any state or federal government again.
...If individually charged. And individually convicted in a variety of courtrooms. In a timely enough manner for this to happen before the 2024 election cycle. Holding up against waves of appeals, with judges at all levels (including SCOTUS) agreeing that, yes, laws _do_ apply to this laundry list of individuals and that this Constitutional provision is one of them that does.
Somewhere, the spirit of Eliot Ness is whispering into the ears of agency heads across America. "You know that they're guilty. Everyone knows that they're guilty," he counsels them. "But how do you get them into defendants' chairs, and make it stick?"
posted by delfin at 11:29 AM on May 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
The DoJ gets a conviction on this, there are several sitting members of Congress who will face expulsion and a permanent bar to serving in federal or state office. A bunch of GOP state legislators across the nation who will be expelled from their statehouses. Possibly some GOP governors. And a whooooooole bunch of Trump officials and spawn and lackeys will be permanently barred from ever seeking elected office in the United States, or from serving in any state or federal government again.
...If individually charged. And individually convicted in a variety of courtrooms. In a timely enough manner for this to happen before the 2024 election cycle. Holding up against waves of appeals, with judges at all levels (including SCOTUS) agreeing that, yes, laws _do_ apply to this laundry list of individuals and that this Constitutional provision is one of them that does.
Somewhere, the spirit of Eliot Ness is whispering into the ears of agency heads across America. "You know that they're guilty. Everyone knows that they're guilty," he counsels them. "But how do you get them into defendants' chairs, and make it stick?"
posted by delfin at 11:29 AM on May 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
he will lose very, very badly
I don't trust that at all. A lot of the people who voted him out will fall for, "but the inflation!"
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:33 AM on May 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
I don't trust that at all. A lot of the people who voted him out will fall for, "but the inflation!"
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:33 AM on May 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
If Trump is the 2024 Republican nominee, as looks nearly certain at this point, he will lose very, very badly
I feel like this was the sentiment on Metafilter as far back as November 7, 2016, just as I'm sure good Germans counted out Hitler for previous time served in a prison cell. Don't count him out!
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:38 AM on May 4, 2023 [25 favorites]
I feel like this was the sentiment on Metafilter as far back as November 7, 2016, just as I'm sure good Germans counted out Hitler for previous time served in a prison cell. Don't count him out!
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:38 AM on May 4, 2023 [25 favorites]
Also for the Nth time, remember that the Electoral College means the outcome of the next Presidential election hinges on shifting votes left or right in the thousands, not millions, and in only a few states. None of the rest of the states matter. It's a coin flip, no matter who the candidates are.
Remember, Trump lost the popular election very very badly in both 2016 and 2020. It doesn't matter, he's electable again because of our shitty system.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:00 PM on May 4, 2023 [38 favorites]
Remember, Trump lost the popular election very very badly in both 2016 and 2020. It doesn't matter, he's electable again because of our shitty system.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:00 PM on May 4, 2023 [38 favorites]
Don't count him out!
Nah. Between the 2020 and 2024 elections, 7.2 million Boomers and other elders will have died, and 8.4 million Gen Zers will have come of age. That alone seals it, but think on it some more: has Trump *created* one new voter since then? Nope. And there are at least a few Trump 2020 voters who are gonna stay home or reluctantly vote for Biden.
[edit: and yes, the electoral college is what matters, but the numbers are such that the EC can't be swung in that fashion this time. Put a Boring Business Republican in Trump's place, however, and shit could get dire.]
The only thing that has even a chance of fucking it up is if some Russian asset—I mean, Green Party or super progressive Dem—throws a wrench into it with some narcissistic boutique "you have to EARN my vote" crap à la 2000 and 2016, and enough idiots fall for it to make a difference in swing states. But even Saint Bernie himself isn't stupid enough to run a primary challenge, so let's hope for the best, here.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 12:03 PM on May 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Nah. Between the 2020 and 2024 elections, 7.2 million Boomers and other elders will have died, and 8.4 million Gen Zers will have come of age. That alone seals it, but think on it some more: has Trump *created* one new voter since then? Nope. And there are at least a few Trump 2020 voters who are gonna stay home or reluctantly vote for Biden.
[edit: and yes, the electoral college is what matters, but the numbers are such that the EC can't be swung in that fashion this time. Put a Boring Business Republican in Trump's place, however, and shit could get dire.]
The only thing that has even a chance of fucking it up is if some Russian asset—I mean, Green Party or super progressive Dem—throws a wrench into it with some narcissistic boutique "you have to EARN my vote" crap à la 2000 and 2016, and enough idiots fall for it to make a difference in swing states. But even Saint Bernie himself isn't stupid enough to run a primary challenge, so let's hope for the best, here.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 12:03 PM on May 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
My comfort level on Trump stems from what I like to call the Frank Rizzo Principle. Frank the Tank was an infamous police-chief-turned-Mayor in Philadelphia decades ago. Any time that he ran, it was said that 45% of Philadelphians would come out specifically to vote for him, and 45% of Philadelphians would come out specifically to vote against him regardless of whom the opponent was or what they stood for.
And so it goes with Trump at this stage -- there is virtually no one left to persuade.
When my late father considered his options in 2016, he was unsure. My arguments that maybe, just maybe, voting for someone who had experience and knew what they'd be doing was a better choice than for a rank amateur didn't persuade him much. "You don't know what he's going to do if he gets in there!" Dad argued. "You're just projecting what you think he's going to do." He had no great love for Trump or for movement conservatism, but he weighed what he felt was a known quantity -- Hillary, with all of the weight that her name bore, versus Someone Else.
When America got a second try, with an amiable-but-milquetoast career politician as the Democratic alternative, there was no doubt remaining as to how Trump would govern or what his victory-lap term would be like. And 45% of Americans came out to vote and declared "Yes, that's precisely what we want," and that and millions more came out and declared, "Anyone is better than that."
The people who are putting Let's Go Brandon signs on their lawn and raging about Biden's excesses are the same people who were in the tank for Trump from day one. Yes, there are 'moderate' people out there who are worse off in terms of economics or civil rights than they were on January 21, 2021. But I reject the idea that more than a handful of them will gaze longingly at Trump and think, "Maybe he'll be different this time."
posted by delfin at 12:06 PM on May 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
And so it goes with Trump at this stage -- there is virtually no one left to persuade.
When my late father considered his options in 2016, he was unsure. My arguments that maybe, just maybe, voting for someone who had experience and knew what they'd be doing was a better choice than for a rank amateur didn't persuade him much. "You don't know what he's going to do if he gets in there!" Dad argued. "You're just projecting what you think he's going to do." He had no great love for Trump or for movement conservatism, but he weighed what he felt was a known quantity -- Hillary, with all of the weight that her name bore, versus Someone Else.
When America got a second try, with an amiable-but-milquetoast career politician as the Democratic alternative, there was no doubt remaining as to how Trump would govern or what his victory-lap term would be like. And 45% of Americans came out to vote and declared "Yes, that's precisely what we want," and that and millions more came out and declared, "Anyone is better than that."
The people who are putting Let's Go Brandon signs on their lawn and raging about Biden's excesses are the same people who were in the tank for Trump from day one. Yes, there are 'moderate' people out there who are worse off in terms of economics or civil rights than they were on January 21, 2021. But I reject the idea that more than a handful of them will gaze longingly at Trump and think, "Maybe he'll be different this time."
posted by delfin at 12:06 PM on May 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
Nah. Between the 2020 and 2024 elections, 7.2 million Boomers and other elders will have died, and 8.4 million Gen Zers will have come of age.
so theres this thing called voter suppression
theyve gotten better at it
just an fyi in case you think demographics means a flying fart
posted by lalochezia at 12:14 PM on May 4, 2023 [44 favorites]
This seems like positive news to me. Not understanding how it became grounds for yet another round of people sniping at each other about whether or not our sense of political peril is well calibrated enough.
posted by Ipsifendus at 12:42 PM on May 4, 2023 [28 favorites]
posted by Ipsifendus at 12:42 PM on May 4, 2023 [28 favorites]
I cannot convince my 'blue dog democrat' relative that President Biden isn't too old for another term. And they voted for him in 2020, generally ignore most partisan media sources and is the type of voter that reads full texts of propositions and judge bios before voting. But their perception of him is that he's getting feeble-minded to a 'worse than Reagan' degree and I don't know how you change that perception. (Yes, we've talked about the stutter.)
posted by ApathyGirl at 12:44 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ApathyGirl at 12:44 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Remind your relative that Trump is closer to Biden's age than he is to 70, babbles word salad regularly, and demonstrated person-woman-man-camera-TV mental issues a few years back. You can say a lot of things about Trump, but "he's more mentally stable now than he was then" certainly isn't one of them.
(Is this a potential issue for Biden vs. a theoretical significantly-younger opponent? Perhaps.)
posted by delfin at 1:00 PM on May 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
(Is this a potential issue for Biden vs. a theoretical significantly-younger opponent? Perhaps.)
posted by delfin at 1:00 PM on May 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Nah. Between 2020 and 2024 elections, 7.2 million Boomers and other elders will have died...
Can you not? Can you really not sound like you're looking forward to millions of people my age dying? (Put any other demographic into that sentence to see what I mean.)
Not to mention it's incorrect to portray this as totally about Old People Bad. What age are the people who stormed the US Capitol? The Michigan Capitol? Who plotted to kidnap and kill the Michigan governor? How old was my *great*-nephew when he told me, "Putin's not so bad," and "this country works despite diversity, not because of it." (24)
Countless millions of my generation, and generations going back forever, have worked to improve lives and fight such anti-democratic bigotry.
I'm not sure the future will be any different, that you won't learn the same hard lesson I have - There's always a fight to move forward, be pushed back, pick yourself up, and start the fight again.
posted by NorthernLite at 1:02 PM on May 4, 2023 [54 favorites]
Can you not? Can you really not sound like you're looking forward to millions of people my age dying? (Put any other demographic into that sentence to see what I mean.)
Not to mention it's incorrect to portray this as totally about Old People Bad. What age are the people who stormed the US Capitol? The Michigan Capitol? Who plotted to kidnap and kill the Michigan governor? How old was my *great*-nephew when he told me, "Putin's not so bad," and "this country works despite diversity, not because of it." (24)
Countless millions of my generation, and generations going back forever, have worked to improve lives and fight such anti-democratic bigotry.
I'm not sure the future will be any different, that you won't learn the same hard lesson I have - There's always a fight to move forward, be pushed back, pick yourself up, and start the fight again.
posted by NorthernLite at 1:02 PM on May 4, 2023 [54 favorites]
Fucking good. Now get the rest of those treasonous fuckers.
As of January, about 1000 people had been charged, 465 pleaded guilty, and 335 sentenced.
Those numbers continue to go up; here's a database. That page doesn't have current counts, but if anyone wants to download the Excel file and share some numbers, please do.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:09 PM on May 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
As of January, about 1000 people had been charged, 465 pleaded guilty, and 335 sentenced.
Those numbers continue to go up; here's a database. That page doesn't have current counts, but if anyone wants to download the Excel file and share some numbers, please do.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:09 PM on May 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Can you not? Can you really not sound like you're looking forward to millions of people my age dying? (Put any other demographic into that sentence to see what I mean.)
That's you, not me, pal. And it was a statement of fact: that demographic differential will, statistically, make for a big swing in a positive direction.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 1:16 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
That's you, not me, pal. And it was a statement of fact: that demographic differential will, statistically, make for a big swing in a positive direction.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 1:16 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't trust that at all. A lot of the people who voted him out will fall for, "but the inflation!"
A lot of women who had their rights taken away are likely to vote, too.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:17 PM on May 4, 2023 [16 favorites]
A lot of women who had their rights taken away are likely to vote, too.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:17 PM on May 4, 2023 [16 favorites]
A lot of women who had their rights taken away are likely to vote, too.
And an appalling number of them will still vote Republican, because it has always and forever been the province of high-status women to be the most vicious enforcers of patriarchy.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 1:19 PM on May 4, 2023 [23 favorites]
And an appalling number of them will still vote Republican, because it has always and forever been the province of high-status women to be the most vicious enforcers of patriarchy.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 1:19 PM on May 4, 2023 [23 favorites]
MetaFilter has thought Joe Biden couldn't possibly win all the way from Dec 2019 up until [checks calendar] May 4th, 2023, so perhaps the real lesson is that this website is terrible at predicting elections.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 1:48 PM on May 4, 2023 [26 favorites]
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 1:48 PM on May 4, 2023 [26 favorites]
That's you, not me, pal. And it was a statement of fact: that demographic differential will, statistically, make for a big swing in a positive direction.
This is a dismissive response. If you present an opinion, own it, don't dodge the criticism.
You make the claim that older people dying and younger people taking their place as voters will seal the deal?: Nah. Between the 2020 and 2024 elections, 7.2 million Boomers and other elders will have died, and 8.4 million Gen Zers will have come of age. That alone seals it, but think on it some more: has Trump *created* one new voter since then? Nope. And there are at least a few Trump 2020 voters who are gonna stay home or reluctantly vote for Biden.
[edit: and yes, the electoral college is what matters, but the numbers are such that the EC can't be swung in that fashion this time. Put a Boring Business Republican in Trump's place, however, and shit could get dire.]
The only thing that has even a chance of fucking it up is if some Russian asset—I mean, Green Party or super progressive Dem—throws a wrench into it with some narcissistic boutique "you have to EARN my vote" crap à la 2000 and 2016, and enough idiots fall for it to make a difference in swing states. But even Saint Bernie himself isn't stupid enough to run a primary challenge, so let's hope for the best, here.
I don't live in the US, but I am seeing plenty of people under the age of 30 who are willfully embracing atrocious beliefs and behaviours. I suspect a percentage of these people are not really seeing a future, and I don't blame them, but I think it's far too simplistic to make sweeping generalizations based on age alone.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:51 PM on May 4, 2023 [21 favorites]
This is a dismissive response. If you present an opinion, own it, don't dodge the criticism.
You make the claim that older people dying and younger people taking their place as voters will seal the deal?: Nah. Between the 2020 and 2024 elections, 7.2 million Boomers and other elders will have died, and 8.4 million Gen Zers will have come of age. That alone seals it, but think on it some more: has Trump *created* one new voter since then? Nope. And there are at least a few Trump 2020 voters who are gonna stay home or reluctantly vote for Biden.
[edit: and yes, the electoral college is what matters, but the numbers are such that the EC can't be swung in that fashion this time. Put a Boring Business Republican in Trump's place, however, and shit could get dire.]
The only thing that has even a chance of fucking it up is if some Russian asset—I mean, Green Party or super progressive Dem—throws a wrench into it with some narcissistic boutique "you have to EARN my vote" crap à la 2000 and 2016, and enough idiots fall for it to make a difference in swing states. But even Saint Bernie himself isn't stupid enough to run a primary challenge, so let's hope for the best, here.
I don't live in the US, but I am seeing plenty of people under the age of 30 who are willfully embracing atrocious beliefs and behaviours. I suspect a percentage of these people are not really seeing a future, and I don't blame them, but I think it's far too simplistic to make sweeping generalizations based on age alone.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:51 PM on May 4, 2023 [21 favorites]
Between the 2020 and 2024 elections, 7.2 million Boomers and other elders will have died, and 8.4 million Gen Zers will have come of age. That alone seals it, but think on it some more: has Trump *created* one new voter since then? Nope. And there are at least a few Trump 2020 voters who are gonna stay home or reluctantly vote for Biden.
Man, I hate to put it on Gen-Z to get us out of this fucking quagmire, but Gen-Z for gawd sakes, please vote.
posted by bluesky43 at 2:15 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Man, I hate to put it on Gen-Z to get us out of this fucking quagmire, but Gen-Z for gawd sakes, please vote.
posted by bluesky43 at 2:15 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
That's you, not me, pal. And it was a statement of fact: that demographic differential will, statistically, make for a big swing in a positive direction.
Yes. Absolutely! Because generations move as a solid bloc forever, and never, ever, ever, evolve their opinions in different directions over time. Enjoy sitting on your thumbs eagerly waiting for an entire generation to die-off, and please don’t express a single bit of surprise when President Marjorie Taylor Greene is sworn in.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:33 PM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yes. Absolutely! Because generations move as a solid bloc forever, and never, ever, ever, evolve their opinions in different directions over time. Enjoy sitting on your thumbs eagerly waiting for an entire generation to die-off, and please don’t express a single bit of surprise when President Marjorie Taylor Greene is sworn in.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:33 PM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
President Marjorie Taylor Greene
You must not do crimes like this! Why would you say it :(
posted by curious nu at 2:43 PM on May 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
You must not do crimes like this! Why would you say it :(
posted by curious nu at 2:43 PM on May 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
Pew Party affiliation among 18-29 year olds by region.
I believe that data is current.
President Marjorie Taylor Greene
Like Pamela Milton without the panache.
posted by clavdivs at 2:51 PM on May 4, 2023 [11 favorites]
I believe that data is current.
President Marjorie Taylor Greene
Like Pamela Milton without the panache.
posted by clavdivs at 2:51 PM on May 4, 2023 [11 favorites]
→
As of May 1st 2023, 940 people charged, 482 pleaded guilty, 44 convicted by trial, 1 acquitted, 4 case dismissed and 353 sentenced.
(yay for q - Text as Data!)
posted by scruss at 3:01 PM on May 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
As of January, about 1000 people had been charged, 465 pleaded guilty, and 335 sentenced.
As of May 1st 2023, 940 people charged, 482 pleaded guilty, 44 convicted by trial, 1 acquitted, 4 case dismissed and 353 sentenced.
(yay for q - Text as Data!)
posted by scruss at 3:01 PM on May 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
8.4 million Gen Zers will have come of age
The fallacy that the youth aren't GOPers.....look at the ages of some these folks getting convicted.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:06 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
The fallacy that the youth aren't GOPers.....look at the ages of some these folks getting convicted.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:06 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
perhaps the real lesson is that this website is terrible at predicting elections
This made me laugh, but only because it is so true.
Returning to the post theme, I'm glad these fascists were found guilty. Let the sentencing be harsh and unsparing, if only as a fair and open warning to Republicans for the consequences of any future violence.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:12 PM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
This made me laugh, but only because it is so true.
Returning to the post theme, I'm glad these fascists were found guilty. Let the sentencing be harsh and unsparing, if only as a fair and open warning to Republicans for the consequences of any future violence.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:12 PM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
Remind your relative that Trump is closer to Biden's age than he is to 70, babbles word salad regularly, and demonstrated person-woman-man-camera-TV mental issues a few years back. You can say a lot of things about Trump, but "he's more mentally stable now than he was then" certainly isn't one of them.
(Is this a potential issue for Biden vs. a theoretical significantly-younger opponent? Perhaps.)
Good point, delfin. I ought to have said that this doesn't make my relative more likely to vote for Trump-they think he's a crook and a liar. I only meant to point out a variable that might be being overlooked, that the 'Biden's lost it' messaging is getting through and that worries me for 2024.
Of course, going by the political spam texts I'm getting, it seems like Newsom is about to throw his hat in the ring so who knows.
posted by ApathyGirl at 3:55 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
(Is this a potential issue for Biden vs. a theoretical significantly-younger opponent? Perhaps.)
Good point, delfin. I ought to have said that this doesn't make my relative more likely to vote for Trump-they think he's a crook and a liar. I only meant to point out a variable that might be being overlooked, that the 'Biden's lost it' messaging is getting through and that worries me for 2024.
Of course, going by the political spam texts I'm getting, it seems like Newsom is about to throw his hat in the ring so who knows.
posted by ApathyGirl at 3:55 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
> perhaps the real lesson is that this website is terrible at predicting elections
I'm coming up on half a century of terrible predictions, but that's my masterpiece.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:17 PM on May 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
I'm coming up on half a century of terrible predictions, but that's my masterpiece.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:17 PM on May 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
At least you didn't have to eat a bug.
posted by delfin at 5:06 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by delfin at 5:06 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Here's an optimistic possibility that doesn't involve anyone dying: some "centrist" big-business Republican challenges that horrible crook in the primary and wins. Do you really think that horrible crook would just calmly accept defeat? Of course not! He'd run anyway and split the vote, and Biden coasts in with a landslide.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:29 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:29 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
The fallacy that the youth aren't GOPers.....look at the ages of some these folks getting convicted.
I don't think anyone can count on the votes of the folks who were found guilty of doing crimes, at least not in the next election or two.
posted by emelenjr at 5:37 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't think anyone can count on the votes of the folks who were found guilty of doing crimes, at least not in the next election or two.
posted by emelenjr at 5:37 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Did everyone else know this Rhodes fella shot his own eye off before his wedding?!?
I mean, how fucking greek is this whole shamble?!
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:10 PM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean, how fucking greek is this whole shamble?!
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:10 PM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I’ve been hearing some variation on “don’t worry guys, demographics will save us” every election since 2004 - and that’s only because I wasn’t really paying attention to the conversation before that.
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:28 PM on May 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:28 PM on May 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I was just saying the same thing in another thread today.
posted by mbrubeck at 7:42 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 7:42 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I got a timeout from pre-Elon Twitter for mentioning the coming Boomer die-off. Ok boomer.
They're all age 60 - 78 next year.
Going from the SSA Actuarial Table, I calculate the 74yo-in-2020 cohort will decline from ~3M in 2020 to ~2.6M in 2024, while 4.2M GenZers (born in 2006 and thus too young to remember anything about the Iraq War or GFC . . . their life has seen Lame Duck Obama -> T.O.M. -> Biden) enter on the youth end.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 7:44 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
They're all age 60 - 78 next year.
Going from the SSA Actuarial Table, I calculate the 74yo-in-2020 cohort will decline from ~3M in 2020 to ~2.6M in 2024, while 4.2M GenZers (born in 2006 and thus too young to remember anything about the Iraq War or GFC . . . their life has seen Lame Duck Obama -> T.O.M. -> Biden) enter on the youth end.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 7:44 PM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I want to thank all the people predicting when I die. How about we change the topic to politics (I'm old).
posted by baegucb at 7:52 PM on May 4, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by baegucb at 7:52 PM on May 4, 2023 [19 favorites]
Glad there is still a little justice in this world.
posted by oldnumberseven at 8:26 PM on May 4, 2023
posted by oldnumberseven at 8:26 PM on May 4, 2023
So will the Proud Boys adopt a pro-fap platform now that their leaders are going somewhere they won't be within 8 feet of a woman for many years?
posted by srboisvert at 9:46 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 9:46 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
> Pew Party affiliation among 18-29 year olds by region.
Not to agree or disagree with the point you are making, or the source (which shows 18-29 year olds go for Republicans 25-36% of the time and Democrats 44-56%) but just as a point to ponder:
Individuals who voted as a share of all voters, by age (Nov 2020):
Youth vote was notably higher than the norm in the 2018-2020-2022 elections.
Which is great. But will they keep it up with the immediate threat of Trump neutralized?
Reversion to the mean is a real thing, and after the highest turnouts in the past three decades, blah-blah-blah, a realistic expectation would be that turnout is going to go down a bit in 2024. But, we'll see . . .
posted by flug at 9:57 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not to agree or disagree with the point you are making, or the source (which shows 18-29 year olds go for Republicans 25-36% of the time and Democrats 44-56%) but just as a point to ponder:
Individuals who voted as a share of all voters, by age (Nov 2020):
- 18-24: 51%
- 25-34: 60%
- 35-44: 65%
- 45-64: 71%
- 65+: 75%
Youth vote was notably higher than the norm in the 2018-2020-2022 elections.
Which is great. But will they keep it up with the immediate threat of Trump neutralized?
Reversion to the mean is a real thing, and after the highest turnouts in the past three decades, blah-blah-blah, a realistic expectation would be that turnout is going to go down a bit in 2024. But, we'll see . . .
posted by flug at 9:57 PM on May 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
> (which shows 18-29 year olds go for Republicans 25-36% of the time and Democrats 44-56%)
Also, I'm sure MeFites are smart enough to figure this out - though there has been plenty of fighting about it above, so maybe not - but "Boomers vote Republican" and "Gen-Xers vote Democrat" and all such generalizations are completely false and we would all do well to eliminate them entirely from our thinking processes.
Boomers do have a tendency to vote more for Republicans. Or to put a much finer point on it: Boomers have more of a tendency to vote for Republicans than Millenials or Gen-Xers do.
According to the most recent data I can put my hands on in 5 minutes of googling:
- Silent: 43% Democrat/52% Republican
- Boomers: 48% Democrat/46% Republican
- Gen X: 48% Democrat/43% Republican
- Millennial: 59% Democrat/32% Republican
So . . . Boomers actually lean D and also vote a lot more often than the younger groups that do lean somewhat more D but also vote notably less often. Maybe we need more Boomers, not less.
Regardless - and my main point: The fact that one group or another leans R or D by 5-10% does not mean that every member of that groups leans that same direction.
So please, please: Stop acting and writing as though it does.
I'll just throw down a case in point: I'm a "Boomer" (though in my defense, on the very youngest end of it) and I've been voting pretty much straight Democrat for roughly the past 35 years.
I don't think you really want me to jump off a cliff and die - or stay home and not vote because Democrats are saying mean and dumb things to each other somewhere on the internet.
How about I'll take care of #1 and you all can work on #2?
posted by flug at 10:19 PM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
Also, I'm sure MeFites are smart enough to figure this out - though there has been plenty of fighting about it above, so maybe not - but "Boomers vote Republican" and "Gen-Xers vote Democrat" and all such generalizations are completely false and we would all do well to eliminate them entirely from our thinking processes.
Boomers do have a tendency to vote more for Republicans. Or to put a much finer point on it: Boomers have more of a tendency to vote for Republicans than Millenials or Gen-Xers do.
According to the most recent data I can put my hands on in 5 minutes of googling:
- Silent: 43% Democrat/52% Republican
- Boomers: 48% Democrat/46% Republican
- Gen X: 48% Democrat/43% Republican
- Millennial: 59% Democrat/32% Republican
So . . . Boomers actually lean D and also vote a lot more often than the younger groups that do lean somewhat more D but also vote notably less often. Maybe we need more Boomers, not less.
Regardless - and my main point: The fact that one group or another leans R or D by 5-10% does not mean that every member of that groups leans that same direction.
So please, please: Stop acting and writing as though it does.
I'll just throw down a case in point: I'm a "Boomer" (though in my defense, on the very youngest end of it) and I've been voting pretty much straight Democrat for roughly the past 35 years.
I don't think you really want me to jump off a cliff and die - or stay home and not vote because Democrats are saying mean and dumb things to each other somewhere on the internet.
How about I'll take care of #1 and you all can work on #2?
posted by flug at 10:19 PM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
perhaps the real lesson is that this website is terrible at predicting elections.. the convictions we made along the way.
ftfy
posted by evilDoug at 10:55 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
ftfy
posted by evilDoug at 10:55 PM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
I mean, how fucking greek is this whole shamble?!
Uh what now?
posted by each day we work at 12:30 AM on May 5, 2023
Uh what now?
posted by each day we work at 12:30 AM on May 5, 2023
Of all the directions for this conversation to go, "MetaFilter tries to be apocalyptic Nate Silver" is by far the dreariest, especially because MetaFilter is terrible at being both Nate Silver and an apocalyptic prophet.
It's cute that it's done the same thing the MSM has, where, after a painful year of refusing to believe that Hillary could lose in 2016, its takeaway was that it'll seem a whole lot savvier if it sticks to the black-and-white thinking but just flips the polarity.
I'm genuinely interested in the question of what a seditious conspiracy means going forward. Does this lead to the DoJ targeting any new person? How easy is it to daisy-chain convictions, once one positive conviction is in place? Does this exacerbate the already-in-progress chilling effect on groups like the Proud Boys?
I feel like there're a lot of interesting things to talk about here, literally none of which are How Does This Effect The Election or Boomers: How Do We Feel About Their Dying. But I mean y'all do y'all, idk
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 2:30 AM on May 5, 2023 [14 favorites]
It's cute that it's done the same thing the MSM has, where, after a painful year of refusing to believe that Hillary could lose in 2016, its takeaway was that it'll seem a whole lot savvier if it sticks to the black-and-white thinking but just flips the polarity.
I'm genuinely interested in the question of what a seditious conspiracy means going forward. Does this lead to the DoJ targeting any new person? How easy is it to daisy-chain convictions, once one positive conviction is in place? Does this exacerbate the already-in-progress chilling effect on groups like the Proud Boys?
I feel like there're a lot of interesting things to talk about here, literally none of which are How Does This Effect The Election or Boomers: How Do We Feel About Their Dying. But I mean y'all do y'all, idk
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 2:30 AM on May 5, 2023 [14 favorites]
I mean, how fucking greek is this whole shamble?!
Uh what now?
Pretty sure Reasonably Everything Happens is referencing Oedipus, who blinded himself. And maybe the city of Rhodes?
So greek as in greek tragedy. The Tragedy of the Sedition-Ass Motherfuckers Going To Jail.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 2:39 AM on May 5, 2023 [10 favorites]
Uh what now?
Pretty sure Reasonably Everything Happens is referencing Oedipus, who blinded himself. And maybe the city of Rhodes?
So greek as in greek tragedy. The Tragedy of the Sedition-Ass Motherfuckers Going To Jail.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 2:39 AM on May 5, 2023 [10 favorites]
Here's an optimistic possibility that doesn't involve anyone dying: some "centrist" big-business Republican challenges that horrible crook in the primary and wins. Do you really think that horrible crook would just calmly accept defeat? Of course not! He'd run anyway and split the vote, and Biden coasts in with a landslide.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:29 PM on May 4
And the Republicans take the Senate due to a lot of Dem voters staying home since the Presidency is a lock.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:35 AM on May 5, 2023
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:29 PM on May 4
And the Republicans take the Senate due to a lot of Dem voters staying home since the Presidency is a lock.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:35 AM on May 5, 2023
I am finding it more and more difficult to be an aware citizen. It’s just too hard to know what’s going on and for now I’m organizing Marches for our Lives in Vermont and tending my garden and playing with my dogs. Fuck that other stuff. I just can’t anymore.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:49 AM on May 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:49 AM on May 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
If we must be serious, we must.
I'm genuinely interested in the question of what a seditious conspiracy means going forward. Does this lead to the DoJ targeting any new person? How easy is it to daisy-chain convictions, once one positive conviction is in place? Does this exacerbate the already-in-progress chilling effect on groups like the Proud Boys?
In my mind, a significant momentum shift is unlikely.
This is a big crime -- up to 20 years -- and not an easy one to make stick. A key requirement is that a conspiracy to use force must be proven.
Well, if you're one of the Oath Keepers who were involved in building that big cache of weapons at an Arlington hotel, this verdict could have you sweating. If you're one of the double-handful of people who've been charged with gun-related crimes related to January 6th, this is on your radar.
Past that... what constitutes "force?" I mean, if I look at a mob of angry people that was revved up by a planned Trump rally, pointed at the Capitol building and turned loose, and who smashed windows, beat up cops, brought zipties and a (symbolic, at least) gallows and went looking for specific targets, to me, that's force, and specific individuals priming the crowd to go and use it at a specific time and place. Defense attorneys will earnestly plead that January 6th was just Patriotic Americans responding to a perceived-stolen election, marching and protesting in support of their President, demanding fairness and action from those inside the Capitol, and a few bad apples might've gotten a little too excited or brought things they shouldn't have, but to call "speaking the truth" and "protesting injustice" and "demanding that the Constitution be upheld" sedition...! is outrageous overreach.
So, you're fighting a handful of factors now. One is that the farther you were from personally being on the Capitol grounds that day with a weapon in hand, the harder it will be to tie you to seditious conspiracy. Not impossible -- Tarrio wasn't on-site that day -- but difficult, unless you have metaphorical smoking guns hanging over you. One is that this is America, where rich and powerful people (like Congresspeople, like news media, like Roger Stone), for better and worse, seemingly have inherent near-immunity from being held responsible for their actions. One is that the media, including the mainstream, will fret endlessly over the optics of an administration charging its political opponents with major crimes during an election cycle, regardless of how richly those charges are DESERVED. One is that trying a big name and failing to convict will be trumpeted as "proof" that the entire saga was a sham and that this is all Democratic political theater and that ralliers were Simply Asking Constitutional Questions and that Ray Epps exists and yadda yadda yadda.
This is not me saying that it shouldn't be a springboard to catching bigger fish; rather, Cassandrizing that bigger fish are elusive bastards. Sometimes you have to get Al Capone on tax evasion -- or, let's say, on hush money or on business fraud or on selective instances of election tampering -- and be satisfied with that.
posted by delfin at 10:18 AM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm genuinely interested in the question of what a seditious conspiracy means going forward. Does this lead to the DoJ targeting any new person? How easy is it to daisy-chain convictions, once one positive conviction is in place? Does this exacerbate the already-in-progress chilling effect on groups like the Proud Boys?
In my mind, a significant momentum shift is unlikely.
This is a big crime -- up to 20 years -- and not an easy one to make stick. A key requirement is that a conspiracy to use force must be proven.
Well, if you're one of the Oath Keepers who were involved in building that big cache of weapons at an Arlington hotel, this verdict could have you sweating. If you're one of the double-handful of people who've been charged with gun-related crimes related to January 6th, this is on your radar.
Past that... what constitutes "force?" I mean, if I look at a mob of angry people that was revved up by a planned Trump rally, pointed at the Capitol building and turned loose, and who smashed windows, beat up cops, brought zipties and a (symbolic, at least) gallows and went looking for specific targets, to me, that's force, and specific individuals priming the crowd to go and use it at a specific time and place. Defense attorneys will earnestly plead that January 6th was just Patriotic Americans responding to a perceived-stolen election, marching and protesting in support of their President, demanding fairness and action from those inside the Capitol, and a few bad apples might've gotten a little too excited or brought things they shouldn't have, but to call "speaking the truth" and "protesting injustice" and "demanding that the Constitution be upheld" sedition...! is outrageous overreach.
So, you're fighting a handful of factors now. One is that the farther you were from personally being on the Capitol grounds that day with a weapon in hand, the harder it will be to tie you to seditious conspiracy. Not impossible -- Tarrio wasn't on-site that day -- but difficult, unless you have metaphorical smoking guns hanging over you. One is that this is America, where rich and powerful people (like Congresspeople, like news media, like Roger Stone), for better and worse, seemingly have inherent near-immunity from being held responsible for their actions. One is that the media, including the mainstream, will fret endlessly over the optics of an administration charging its political opponents with major crimes during an election cycle, regardless of how richly those charges are DESERVED. One is that trying a big name and failing to convict will be trumpeted as "proof" that the entire saga was a sham and that this is all Democratic political theater and that ralliers were Simply Asking Constitutional Questions and that Ray Epps exists and yadda yadda yadda.
This is not me saying that it shouldn't be a springboard to catching bigger fish; rather, Cassandrizing that bigger fish are elusive bastards. Sometimes you have to get Al Capone on tax evasion -- or, let's say, on hush money or on business fraud or on selective instances of election tampering -- and be satisfied with that.
posted by delfin at 10:18 AM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Your fiendly reminder that, if you are exhorting others to vote or blaming them for having failed to vote:
it was and is ON YOU to make sure those votes would be counted.
What did you do to make sure? What are you doing now?
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 11:15 AM on May 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
it was and is ON YOU to make sure those votes would be counted.
What did you do to make sure? What are you doing now?
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 11:15 AM on May 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Metafilter: Your fiendly reminder
posted by daisystomper at 11:18 AM on May 5, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by daisystomper at 11:18 AM on May 5, 2023 [12 favorites]
Your fiendly reminder that, if you are exhorting others to vote or blaming them for having failed to vote:
it was and is ON YOU to make sure those votes would be counted.
I mean, hear me out, but no
posted by Ahmad Khani at 12:18 PM on May 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
it was and is ON YOU to make sure those votes would be counted.
I mean, hear me out, but no
posted by Ahmad Khani at 12:18 PM on May 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Your fiendly reminder that, if you are exhorting others to vote or blaming them for having failed to vote:
it was and is ON YOU to make sure those votes would be counted.
the last time I asked someone to please vote, or, more accurately, just reminded them what the stakes were, it was my mom who was complaining that all the candidates in the recent Wisconsin Supreme Court election were blowing up her phone with nasty aggro texts & maybe if it was cold or something, maybe she wouldn't go vote
since this was a purely audio conversation I made a little deadpan face into the imaginary 90s sitcom camera I make my deadpan faces into when I'm talking to my mom, took a breath, & said "Well, you know, this election would change the court balance & open the door to reverse all that gerrymandering you hate, plus that abortion law from 1849, literally one year after we incorporated as a state, that you also hate," and she was like "okay that's true"
if they do redraw the maps, her vote will count more than it did previously, because people went out & voted for the liberal justice
seems like there's a lot of that built into the US government system, situations where chiseling out a little bit of power or leverage allows you to change the situation so next time it's easier for you to get more power and leverage
like in Arizona it's legal for citizens to write ballot initiatives, out of which have come several good things like a wage increase & a cap on how much medical debt a person can get into
last midterm there were three non-citizen initiatives on the ballot designed purely to limit the power of citizen initiatives, i.e. take governmental leverage away from the citizens
iirc the most egregious one did not pass but one or two did, which they would not have if more people voted against them
fortunately in that election more people did vote for the person who said they would not prosecute abortions than the person who said "hell yes I am excited to go prosecute some abortions," and as a direct result some people who would have died are now going to live
I feel like the disconnect that happens amongst pro-social voters is that some people think of their vote as a valuable resource that needs to be exchanged for something they value, otherwise they will withhold it, which they consider to itself be a meaningful option
meanwhile the other group thinks of their vote as a token that can only be spent on the available options, and the absolute best use of it is to spend it on the least worst option, because we need more people to put their tokens in the "please no fascism" box than the "please yes fascism" box or we get fascism
I'm Team B, if that was unclear
posted by taquito sunrise at 5:04 PM on May 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
it was and is ON YOU to make sure those votes would be counted.
the last time I asked someone to please vote, or, more accurately, just reminded them what the stakes were, it was my mom who was complaining that all the candidates in the recent Wisconsin Supreme Court election were blowing up her phone with nasty aggro texts & maybe if it was cold or something, maybe she wouldn't go vote
since this was a purely audio conversation I made a little deadpan face into the imaginary 90s sitcom camera I make my deadpan faces into when I'm talking to my mom, took a breath, & said "Well, you know, this election would change the court balance & open the door to reverse all that gerrymandering you hate, plus that abortion law from 1849, literally one year after we incorporated as a state, that you also hate," and she was like "okay that's true"
if they do redraw the maps, her vote will count more than it did previously, because people went out & voted for the liberal justice
seems like there's a lot of that built into the US government system, situations where chiseling out a little bit of power or leverage allows you to change the situation so next time it's easier for you to get more power and leverage
like in Arizona it's legal for citizens to write ballot initiatives, out of which have come several good things like a wage increase & a cap on how much medical debt a person can get into
last midterm there were three non-citizen initiatives on the ballot designed purely to limit the power of citizen initiatives, i.e. take governmental leverage away from the citizens
iirc the most egregious one did not pass but one or two did, which they would not have if more people voted against them
fortunately in that election more people did vote for the person who said they would not prosecute abortions than the person who said "hell yes I am excited to go prosecute some abortions," and as a direct result some people who would have died are now going to live
I feel like the disconnect that happens amongst pro-social voters is that some people think of their vote as a valuable resource that needs to be exchanged for something they value, otherwise they will withhold it, which they consider to itself be a meaningful option
meanwhile the other group thinks of their vote as a token that can only be spent on the available options, and the absolute best use of it is to spend it on the least worst option, because we need more people to put their tokens in the "please no fascism" box than the "please yes fascism" box or we get fascism
I'm Team B, if that was unclear
posted by taquito sunrise at 5:04 PM on May 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
Prosecution asks for 25 year prison sentence for Stewart Rhodes. Tarrio is under that kind of cloud, too.
posted by rhizome at 12:51 AM on May 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:51 AM on May 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes sentenced to 18 years for seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 attack
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:16 AM on May 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:16 AM on May 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
Locked him up!
posted by Ahmad Khani at 10:24 AM on May 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 10:24 AM on May 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
Kelly "looking for Pelosi" Meggs: 12 years
posted by rhizome at 5:15 PM on May 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 5:15 PM on May 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
« Older Star Wars by Wes Anderson | Nothing Xbox does matters if the games aren't good... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
It was both, my man.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:33 AM on May 4, 2023 [85 favorites]