To mise or not to mise
March 20, 2024 11:45 AM Subscribe
There are two kinds of people As MetaFilter well knows, there are infinite varieties of "two kinds of people" in the world: Askers and Guessers, those who Face the Spray vs. those who Face Away, Standers vs. Sitters. Welcome to the fray, mise en place!
I think I agree with the gist of the article. Prepare some things while other things are happening, and don't be too dogmatic about it.
I was prepared for more heretical talk than that!
posted by Acari at 11:54 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I was prepared for more heretical talk than that!
posted by Acari at 11:54 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
There is a third kind of person: the person who chooses the appropriate technique based on what circumstances warrant.
- If prepping things in advance saves you time or is required because of rapid-fire succession of cooking various ingredients (as mentioned in the article), mise is the way to go (subject to space limitations and having enough bowls)
- If your face is dirty, face the spray, if your back is dirty, face away
- If your butt is sore, stand, if your legs are sore, sit
- If you can get an answer, ask, if you can't, guess
Why does everything need to be so binary? People need to be more comfortable with grey.
posted by tempestuoso at 11:59 AM on March 20 [28 favorites]
- If prepping things in advance saves you time or is required because of rapid-fire succession of cooking various ingredients (as mentioned in the article), mise is the way to go (subject to space limitations and having enough bowls)
- If your face is dirty, face the spray, if your back is dirty, face away
- If your butt is sore, stand, if your legs are sore, sit
- If you can get an answer, ask, if you can't, guess
Why does everything need to be so binary? People need to be more comfortable with grey.
posted by tempestuoso at 11:59 AM on March 20 [28 favorites]
Though I learnt this when very young, I didn't properly get into it before lockdown, where I was isolated in a very remote area with no access to Asian food and I missed it. So I had to learn*. You can't do wok-cooking without a serious dedication to mise en place, and after a while, I'd internalized it. Now it is a second nature. And I'm sixty. You can learn as long as you live.
I still forget whole menu items and obviously shit happens like the other day when the first bag of couscous had vermin in it, and the next tasted of chemicals, so it's not like everything is suddenly fine and dandy. But the method has certainly made my home cooking happier.
*There was a little family owned Asian store who drove 100 km in their private car to provide med with imported ingredients. So kind and helpful.
posted by mumimor at 12:05 PM on March 20 [8 favorites]
I still forget whole menu items and obviously shit happens like the other day when the first bag of couscous had vermin in it, and the next tasted of chemicals, so it's not like everything is suddenly fine and dandy. But the method has certainly made my home cooking happier.
*There was a little family owned Asian store who drove 100 km in their private car to provide med with imported ingredients. So kind and helpful.
posted by mumimor at 12:05 PM on March 20 [8 favorites]
A fourth kind: Don't measure things at all. Eyeball everything, cut things after you put them in the pot or pan. Taste frequently. If it needs more of something, add it. If it has too much of something, add something else. If it needs some undefinable taste or smell, pick something at random and plop it in. Taste again, adjust as needed.
Life is too short to stress about cooking.
posted by signal at 12:10 PM on March 20 [8 favorites]
Life is too short to stress about cooking.
posted by signal at 12:10 PM on March 20 [8 favorites]
tempestuoso: Why does everything need to be so binary? People need to be more comfortable with grey.
There are two kinds of people in the world: people who think there are two kinds of people in the world, and people who don't.
/oldjoke
posted by indexy at 12:11 PM on March 20 [10 favorites]
There are two kinds of people in the world: people who think there are two kinds of people in the world, and people who don't.
/oldjoke
posted by indexy at 12:11 PM on March 20 [10 favorites]
In an episode of Milk Street Radio with Christopher Kimball, cookbook author and TV host Sara Moulton classified mise en place among the “silliness” of other traditional French techniques, including clarifying stock for consommé or using black pepper for some dishes and white for others. Moulton admitted her stance was probably “heretical,” but really went for it, concluding, “to heck with mise en place. It’s useless.”
Did the word 'heretical' remind anyone else of The Toast's excellent series of Letters from Christopher Kimball?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:18 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Did the word 'heretical' remind anyone else of The Toast's excellent series of Letters from Christopher Kimball?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:18 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Moulton concurred that mise en place is especially important for new cooks, but that even “middle-good” cooks can start to work on leaving it behind.
I actually think one place a non-rigid approach is especially important is beginners' cooking materials and lessons*, especially for people who are intimidated by cooking or think of it as a time-consuming bore. Or maybe for any audience - I've been cooking since I was young, and grew up around people cooking, and the insistence in some cooking classes and cookbooks that mise en place is some holy ritual that must be performed for all dishes, and must be called that, and of course must involve dedicated little mise bowls and so forth, didn't reflect real-life cooking as I knew it and was kind of offputting. Just say "for dishes where things need to happen fast you want to have everything ready first", and show new cooks that cooking can be done in a whole lot of ways, ideally with minimal overhead.
*Unless it's for a specific kind of cooking, like wok cooking, where preparing in advance really is needed in most cases.
posted by trig at 12:23 PM on March 20 [8 favorites]
I actually think one place a non-rigid approach is especially important is beginners' cooking materials and lessons*, especially for people who are intimidated by cooking or think of it as a time-consuming bore. Or maybe for any audience - I've been cooking since I was young, and grew up around people cooking, and the insistence in some cooking classes and cookbooks that mise en place is some holy ritual that must be performed for all dishes, and must be called that, and of course must involve dedicated little mise bowls and so forth, didn't reflect real-life cooking as I knew it and was kind of offputting. Just say "for dishes where things need to happen fast you want to have everything ready first", and show new cooks that cooking can be done in a whole lot of ways, ideally with minimal overhead.
*Unless it's for a specific kind of cooking, like wok cooking, where preparing in advance really is needed in most cases.
posted by trig at 12:23 PM on March 20 [8 favorites]
mise en place
Or as my former-chef friend like to call it, "mess in place". He taught my quite a bit about cooking (besides that) when we were younger and I was a single-parent dad trying to make sure my son got a decent diet.
The need for mise en place is different for professional cooks vs at-home cooks. The pros need many ingredients immediately available to them for many different dishes, over and over, without having to take time to gather and prep them. Home cooks, on the other hand, are usually making a single meal (or large batch of one thing).
I generally do a hybrid mise, where I gather all of a recipe's items/containers from fridge, cabinet, pantry, etc. into a pile on the counter so I don't have to search for it, and also as a visual reminder of what I intend to put into the finished product - especially if I'm cobbling something together without a recipe, and don't want to forget an ingredient. But I don't always measure* everything out or cut it up beforehand; it depends on the recipe. With a rapidly-moving dish where no one part lasts very long (as with eggs, or the aforementioned wok cooking), it makes sense to do all your prep ahead of time. For less frenetic recipes, I'll wait and portion out/prep some ingredients as I go. For instance, if I'm going to sear a piece of meat, remove it from the pan, then immediately sauté onions/garlic/etc., I'll cut up the onions (at a minimum) before I start searing the meat since that rarely takes long and I'm afraid I won't be able to finish by the time the meat's done. But since the onions cook more slowly, I can mince the garlic while that's happening in plenty of time to add it near the end.
In short, mise as needed and don't sauté sweat the small stuff.
* Who "measures"? Measure with your heart!**
** (Does not apply when baking)
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:24 PM on March 20 [9 favorites]
Or as my former-chef friend like to call it, "mess in place". He taught my quite a bit about cooking (besides that) when we were younger and I was a single-parent dad trying to make sure my son got a decent diet.
The need for mise en place is different for professional cooks vs at-home cooks. The pros need many ingredients immediately available to them for many different dishes, over and over, without having to take time to gather and prep them. Home cooks, on the other hand, are usually making a single meal (or large batch of one thing).
I generally do a hybrid mise, where I gather all of a recipe's items/containers from fridge, cabinet, pantry, etc. into a pile on the counter so I don't have to search for it, and also as a visual reminder of what I intend to put into the finished product - especially if I'm cobbling something together without a recipe, and don't want to forget an ingredient. But I don't always measure* everything out or cut it up beforehand; it depends on the recipe. With a rapidly-moving dish where no one part lasts very long (as with eggs, or the aforementioned wok cooking), it makes sense to do all your prep ahead of time. For less frenetic recipes, I'll wait and portion out/prep some ingredients as I go. For instance, if I'm going to sear a piece of meat, remove it from the pan, then immediately sauté onions/garlic/etc., I'll cut up the onions (at a minimum) before I start searing the meat since that rarely takes long and I'm afraid I won't be able to finish by the time the meat's done. But since the onions cook more slowly, I can mince the garlic while that's happening in plenty of time to add it near the end.
In short, mise as needed and don't
* Who "measures"? Measure with your heart!**
** (Does not apply when baking)
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:24 PM on March 20 [9 favorites]
He observed that Moulton’s ability to integrate prep into a recipe was in large part due to her professional and restaurant experience. Moulton concurred that mise en place is especially important for new cooks, but that even “middle-good” cooks can start to work on leaving it behind.
Winner-winner, home-cooked dinner. Like, it's not rocket science. Most home cooking doesn't require fanatical devotion to mise, but it can be helpful if you're cooking with an unfamiliar technique. But if you're making the same meal you've done a hundred times, or a variation on a known technique? Probably a waste of time and space.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:25 PM on March 20
Winner-winner, home-cooked dinner. Like, it's not rocket science. Most home cooking doesn't require fanatical devotion to mise, but it can be helpful if you're cooking with an unfamiliar technique. But if you're making the same meal you've done a hundred times, or a variation on a known technique? Probably a waste of time and space.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:25 PM on March 20
Also, cooking videos may contribute some people to be more insistent about doing all the mise en place up front. It makes sense for presenters to pre-prep for a video, where they don't want to spend a lot of screen time laboriously measuring out this and that, so they need it ready to dump bang-bang-bang-bang so they can get on with the more interesting parts of the process. But when I cook I'm not constrained by the requirements of creating content.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:29 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:29 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Usually I'm just cooking one thing at a time and I've adapted my daily recipes so that they take the least amount of active work possible so I'll do the various steps as they come but when I'm making multiple things at once I'll absolutely use mise en place so that I don't get a moment where two preps have to happen at the same time.
I'll also do it if I've got my kids helping me because I can give them separate tasks of their own without having to rush anything.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:34 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I'll also do it if I've got my kids helping me because I can give them separate tasks of their own without having to rush anything.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:34 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
especially if I'm cobbling something together without a recipe, and don't want to forget an ingredient
I made a loaf of banana (or other gone-off-fruit, but almost always banana) bread every week for ... maybe a year? Longer? I didn't ever use a recipe, and didn't measure half of the ingredients, and it mostly turned out fine ... except for the times I forgot the oil, or the eggs, or the sugar. And even then it was fine, but ... not really the intended texture. (2 cups whole wheat flour, 1 cup rolled oats, 2tsp baking powder, 1tsp baking soda, 1tsp kosher salt, 2 eggs, some mushed up fruit, a little oil, maybe some brown sugar if the fruit isn't sweet enough, some yogurt or sour cream or whatever, enough milk to make a batter, bake at 350 F until done, an hour or so.)
posted by uncleozzy at 12:34 PM on March 20 [5 favorites]
I made a loaf of banana (or other gone-off-fruit, but almost always banana) bread every week for ... maybe a year? Longer? I didn't ever use a recipe, and didn't measure half of the ingredients, and it mostly turned out fine ... except for the times I forgot the oil, or the eggs, or the sugar. And even then it was fine, but ... not really the intended texture. (2 cups whole wheat flour, 1 cup rolled oats, 2tsp baking powder, 1tsp baking soda, 1tsp kosher salt, 2 eggs, some mushed up fruit, a little oil, maybe some brown sugar if the fruit isn't sweet enough, some yogurt or sour cream or whatever, enough milk to make a batter, bake at 350 F until done, an hour or so.)
posted by uncleozzy at 12:34 PM on March 20 [5 favorites]
There is a third kind of person: the person who chooses the appropriate technique based on what circumstances warrant.
Which is what the article says: "Not always. ... It won’t always save you time or effort. ... there are certain instances when mise en place makes the most sense. ... But I’d encourage you to think about other situations when doing all the prep first will not save you time in the long run."
How wishy-washy, sensible, and correct. Even the title ("Mise en place is overrated. There are often faster ways to cook.") is less clickbaity than the MeFi post.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:36 PM on March 20
Which is what the article says: "Not always. ... It won’t always save you time or effort. ... there are certain instances when mise en place makes the most sense. ... But I’d encourage you to think about other situations when doing all the prep first will not save you time in the long run."
How wishy-washy, sensible, and correct. Even the title ("Mise en place is overrated. There are often faster ways to cook.") is less clickbaity than the MeFi post.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:36 PM on March 20
Using a scale so you can measure by weight and tare (reset the scale to zero) as you add each ingredient is a huge timesaver, not to mention more accurate
haha measuring food by weight has always seemed to be a joke to me. I get it and why it works and why it's a very real way to prepare food, especially for industrial processes. I've never even liked bothering to get proper measuring cups, so long as you use the same cup and eyeball it to the right ration no sense getting too granular with the ingredients.
I also thought it was preposterous the article suggested mis en place over making stuff as you go. Seems pretty natural to start following a recipe and when you come to the step to add some ingredient that is also the step where you chop it up or whatever. Especially since it'll fill the dead time. Any time in a kitchen not actively cooking is rolling the dice I wander off bored and that's rolling the dice on burning something. Best to stay busy throughout the process else it's even more of a waste of time to prepare food that takes magnitudes less time to eat and forget about forever.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:39 PM on March 20
haha measuring food by weight has always seemed to be a joke to me. I get it and why it works and why it's a very real way to prepare food, especially for industrial processes. I've never even liked bothering to get proper measuring cups, so long as you use the same cup and eyeball it to the right ration no sense getting too granular with the ingredients.
I also thought it was preposterous the article suggested mis en place over making stuff as you go. Seems pretty natural to start following a recipe and when you come to the step to add some ingredient that is also the step where you chop it up or whatever. Especially since it'll fill the dead time. Any time in a kitchen not actively cooking is rolling the dice I wander off bored and that's rolling the dice on burning something. Best to stay busy throughout the process else it's even more of a waste of time to prepare food that takes magnitudes less time to eat and forget about forever.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:39 PM on March 20
* Who "measures"? Measure with your heart!**
** (Does not apply when baking)
I knew someone who had been a lifelong baker and had internalized the proportions and textures to the point of only very rarely measuring anything. I personally don't bake enough to ever consider not measuring (at the least in unitless proportions, but generally in actual units) but there are many other things that I make by eye and feel, with very consistent results.
For mise en place, I do it a bit sometimes but most of what I tend to cook doesn't require it, so it would just mean needing to do additional dishes.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:39 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
** (Does not apply when baking)
I knew someone who had been a lifelong baker and had internalized the proportions and textures to the point of only very rarely measuring anything. I personally don't bake enough to ever consider not measuring (at the least in unitless proportions, but generally in actual units) but there are many other things that I make by eye and feel, with very consistent results.
For mise en place, I do it a bit sometimes but most of what I tend to cook doesn't require it, so it would just mean needing to do additional dishes.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:39 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
the fourth kind of person is a partnership where one of them likes to cook (my partner) and one of them likes to prep (me)
posted by paimapi at 12:40 PM on March 20 [7 favorites]
posted by paimapi at 12:40 PM on March 20 [7 favorites]
haha measuring food by weight has always seemed to be a joke to me
Measuring by weight is so much easier than measuring by volume, I can just dole the ingredients out into a bowl until I hit the required weight instead of having to deal with various measuring spoons or cleaning my measuring cups. I guess not measuring at all would be easiest but I strive for consistency. Every time I follow a saved recipe I think to myself that I should convert it from volume to weight to save myself hassle later on.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:51 PM on March 20 [5 favorites]
Measuring by weight is so much easier than measuring by volume, I can just dole the ingredients out into a bowl until I hit the required weight instead of having to deal with various measuring spoons or cleaning my measuring cups. I guess not measuring at all would be easiest but I strive for consistency. Every time I follow a saved recipe I think to myself that I should convert it from volume to weight to save myself hassle later on.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:51 PM on March 20 [5 favorites]
Learned this when I was working at the omelet station in a radical chic NYC Soho eatery...The high point was serving Robert DeNiro a softish mushroom omelet with a side of toasted whole wheat bread. He even gave .r a tip
posted by Czjewel at 12:52 PM on March 20
posted by Czjewel at 12:52 PM on March 20
If you don't prepare your little bowls of ingredients ahead of time, then you don't get to pretend you're on a mid-1980s PBS cooking show, which to my mind is really the whole point of cooking.
posted by mittens at 12:57 PM on March 20 [26 favorites]
posted by mittens at 12:57 PM on March 20 [26 favorites]
Measuring by weight is so much easier than measuring by volume, I can just dole the ingredients out into a bowl until I hit the required weight instead of having to deal with various measuring spoons or cleaning my measuring cups. I guess not measuring at all would be easiest but I strive for consistency. Every time I follow a saved recipe I think to myself that I should convert it from volume to weight to save myself hassle later on.
Other than baking, where measuring and proportions need to be more exact, I just go by eye rather than measuring anything. Most dishes I make are pretty tolerant of imprecision, but it's also pretty easy to get consistent with anything you make a lot. But this will depend on the kinds of recipes you make and whether or not greater precision is needed.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:58 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Other than baking, where measuring and proportions need to be more exact, I just go by eye rather than measuring anything. Most dishes I make are pretty tolerant of imprecision, but it's also pretty easy to get consistent with anything you make a lot. But this will depend on the kinds of recipes you make and whether or not greater precision is needed.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:58 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
In contrast to adopting a flexible "mise as you go" process, I have never been a "clean as you go" person and am not likely to become one in what remains of this lifetime. Hell, I'm rarely even a "clean the same evening" person! If I have guests for dinner, I'd rather hang out with them after dinner than bustle about being industrious. But even without guests, I live alone and don't care if I leave the kitchen messy overnight, so to hell with the haters.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:37 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:37 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
The last time I cooked veggie chili, I was under-prepared and had no recipe. So I had a glass of wine and a nice little chat with ChatGPT about what I could/should add from my pantry, how to prepare it for addition to the chili, and when to add it. Turned out to be my best chili ever.
posted by Thysania at 2:09 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Thysania at 2:09 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
The biggest non-obvious advantage of a full mise en place is that you can't run into the "ah fuck I thought I had a block of cheddar but actually it's moldy as fuck" stumbling block. That said, I spent enough time working in kitchens that I'm quick with a knife and generally only pre-prep ingredients that are going to need to go into the pot on a very specific and short time frame or are a pain in the ass to cut (looking at you brunoise carrots)
posted by Ferreous at 2:22 PM on March 20 [7 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 2:22 PM on March 20 [7 favorites]
Honestly, and this is on me, I don't think a practical reason for employing mise en place ever occurred to me. I think the appeal to me is almost entirely aesthetic, having to do with the mood I'm creating for myself and the flow of cooking. I enjoy getting all my ingredients prepped before I start cooking, arranged simply but artfullly on the counter; then I will take a short break, and come back almost as a different persona, ready to cook the food that someone has so considerately and beautifully prepped and laid out for me. It's something I rarely do, only when I have the time to cook leisurely -- I've never thought of it as a time-saver, at all. It's just a pleasing way to cook, and a less tiring one I find even though it takes longer -- something about that partition of roles refreshes me. Music with a mellow groove from around the world pairs nicely with this approach to cooking.
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 2:45 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 2:45 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]
Favorites button not working for me (iPhone) but I just wanted to say I always enjoy your thoughts and perspectives mumimor so thanks!
posted by WatTylerJr at 2:45 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by WatTylerJr at 2:45 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
There are three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
posted by zardoz at 2:53 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 2:53 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
I do two things to prep for cooking. One is to verify that I have all needed ingredients for what I’m making. If I don’t there’s no sense in starting prep. Then for a mise, I’ll prepare everything to a point where I need to before falling behind. I might need a few ingredients chopped up that go in for the first ten minutes of cooking, for example, but anything after that I can prepare while the rest is cooking. If I’m making enchiladas, I’ll get the chiles seeded and cleaned and start them cooking; the garlic can be made later, the cheese shredded sometime while the chiles are cooking, etc. I just need enough to start and then I can continue prep.
posted by azpenguin at 2:57 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 2:57 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
Sara Moulton?? Like Food Network's "Cooking Live with Sara Moulton?"
As a kid, I watched her and the rest of early Food Network almost religiously. But the last episode of that show, little did I know that it was the last episode she would ever make of it.
As I watched in real time, she basically had a meltdown on live TV and ran out of time to cook any and all of her recipes. Shortly afterwards, that TV slot stopped airing anymore shows, and then it got quietly cancelled and she moved onto a new TV show concept. Witnessing that demise felt like a forbidden secret that I was not supposed to tell, how that all took place, and that I watched something that was not supposed to happen.
So for her to say that mise en place is not necessary is...well...a choice. I do remember she had some kind of mise en place, I think.
posted by yueliang at 3:01 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
As a kid, I watched her and the rest of early Food Network almost religiously. But the last episode of that show, little did I know that it was the last episode she would ever make of it.
As I watched in real time, she basically had a meltdown on live TV and ran out of time to cook any and all of her recipes. Shortly afterwards, that TV slot stopped airing anymore shows, and then it got quietly cancelled and she moved onto a new TV show concept. Witnessing that demise felt like a forbidden secret that I was not supposed to tell, how that all took place, and that I watched something that was not supposed to happen.
So for her to say that mise en place is not necessary is...well...a choice. I do remember she had some kind of mise en place, I think.
posted by yueliang at 3:01 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
This may have been the most polite "sit vs. stand" thread I've ever read on the Blue. Thank you all for contributing. Like Greg_Ace and others I usually do something right in the middle grab the ingredients, cut what needs to be cut (or any other time intensive prep) and then just start cooking. And, like G_A, I almost never measure. Partially for the same reason! I worked with this amazing Exec Chef who never measured when he was creating the daily special. And, really once you have measured, chopped, poured over a number of years you can "see" the right amount. (It also helps to have forgiving recipes.)
Loving reading how y'all cook!
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 3:38 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Loving reading how y'all cook!
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 3:38 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
The headline was a little hyperbolic; even the article admits that sometimes mise en place is a good idea and sometimes it isn’t. But since the author is a recipe developer I would love to see her comment on the way times for recipes are determined. As an fairly experienced home cook, it seems to me that the only way many, if not most, recipes can be prepared in the allotted time is if any ingredient that requires peeling, dicing, chopping, or other prep is prepared in advance. Which means that recipe writer assume a bit of mise en place on a regular basis.
posted by TedW at 3:44 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
posted by TedW at 3:44 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Also, almost all recipes are lying about how long it takes to sauté onions! 3-5 minutes my foot.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:52 PM on March 20 [16 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:52 PM on March 20 [16 favorites]
As an fairly experienced home cook, it seems to me that the only way many, if not most, recipes can be prepared in the allotted time is if any ingredient that requires peeling, dicing, chopping, or other prep is prepared in advance.
TedW You mean most recipes you read don't have a "prep time" section and a "cook time" section? I just googled "roasted beets recipe" and the top three (the featured ones, I suppose) all had both.
Or, am I totally misunderstanding you?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 3:55 PM on March 20
TedW You mean most recipes you read don't have a "prep time" section and a "cook time" section? I just googled "roasted beets recipe" and the top three (the featured ones, I suppose) all had both.
Or, am I totally misunderstanding you?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 3:55 PM on March 20
Chaos Muppet vs Order Muppet is my take
posted by djseafood at 4:03 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
posted by djseafood at 4:03 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
Measuring by weight is so much easier than measuring by volume, I can just dole the ingredients out into a bowl until I hit the required weight instead of having to deal with various measuring spoons or cleaning my measuring cups.
And then hit the button to re-tare the scale back to zero and you're good to go for the next ingredient. Repeat as needed.
posted by Lexica at 4:23 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
And then hit the button to re-tare the scale back to zero and you're good to go for the next ingredient. Repeat as needed.
posted by Lexica at 4:23 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Why does everything need to be so binary? People need to be more comfortable with grey
I feel like things either are binary or they’re not; I don’t have much interest in finding a compromise on this position.
posted by nickmark at 4:30 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I feel like things either are binary or they’re not; I don’t have much interest in finding a compromise on this position.
posted by nickmark at 4:30 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
You mean most recipes you read don't have a "prep time" section and a "cook time" section?
They generally do, but the prep time is often insufficient for anything other than assembling already prepared ingredients. And Greg_Ace is absolutely right that browning or otherwise precooking ingredients all too often takes far longer than the recipe says. I want a stove like the one they have!
posted by TedW at 4:39 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
They generally do, but the prep time is often insufficient for anything other than assembling already prepared ingredients. And Greg_Ace is absolutely right that browning or otherwise precooking ingredients all too often takes far longer than the recipe says. I want a stove like the one they have!
posted by TedW at 4:39 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
as my former-chef friend like to call it, "mess in place". He taught my quite a bit
Took me 4 hours to notice I made two typos in a row, even after theoretically proof-reading the comment before hitting Send. *sigh*
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:41 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Took me 4 hours to notice I made two typos in a row, even after theoretically proof-reading the comment before hitting Send. *sigh*
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:41 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I just ... Do stuff. And it's good.
I'll make sure I have a plan and most of my ingredients, and then figure out what needs to be started first.
It's not uncommon to discover I'm low on a sauce and improvise, near the end.
As long as I can always see the time.
I suppose I owe my mom a debt for making me cook from such a young age. It's weird to not really have a theory for why I do stuff tho.
posted by constraint at 4:43 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I'll make sure I have a plan and most of my ingredients, and then figure out what needs to be started first.
It's not uncommon to discover I'm low on a sauce and improvise, near the end.
As long as I can always see the time.
I suppose I owe my mom a debt for making me cook from such a young age. It's weird to not really have a theory for why I do stuff tho.
posted by constraint at 4:43 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I'm often cooking two separate meals at once (picky eater kid, not fighting that fight). Mise en place is mostly necessary in this situation, even if my kid's meals are relatively simple. Also, even though I have decent for a home cook knife skills, I hate being rushed on prep. I just don't want the stress of chopping a mirepoix while I'm browning meat. It just makes sense for me to prep a lot of stuff ahead of time. And while I absolutely adore Sara Moulton, the first thing I thought of when I heard her quote was "Well, of course, she's a professional chef with professional level skills."
posted by mollweide at 6:04 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 6:04 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
My dad's a big JIT cook. I watched him stress out, slice up his hands, and burn himself over the years trying to get various ingredients prepped just before they were supposed to go into a pan. Not the life for me. I prep everything, then I can just focus on the cooking and drink a glass of wine.
posted by protocoach at 6:34 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
posted by protocoach at 6:34 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
Also, almost all recipes are lying about how long it takes to sauté onions! 3-5 minutes my foot.
There is so much of this. Always with the onions, but also you'll see something like "boil the potatoes for 5-8 minutes" or "bake for 20 minutes" and you just have to feel sorry for some novice cook trying out a new recipe and ending up either having it take twice as long as they though, or getting inedible results.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:53 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]
There is so much of this. Always with the onions, but also you'll see something like "boil the potatoes for 5-8 minutes" or "bake for 20 minutes" and you just have to feel sorry for some novice cook trying out a new recipe and ending up either having it take twice as long as they though, or getting inedible results.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:53 PM on March 20 [6 favorites]
Will I be pretending to be cooking for a tv audience? Then of course, I'll have ingredients in little dishes.
Cooking in real life means the phone rings, the dog gets into something, the container you thought had garlic powder is really ginger. Be flexible.
posted by theora55 at 7:07 PM on March 20
Cooking in real life means the phone rings, the dog gets into something, the container you thought had garlic powder is really ginger. Be flexible.
posted by theora55 at 7:07 PM on March 20
"Cook the onions until caramelized, 6 to 10 minutes" is the biggest lie in cooking. The times given on most recipes are laughable, whether or not they include prep time. Even if they do include prep time, it almost always seems to be professional chef level skills and equipment time, if that.
posted by mollweide at 7:09 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 7:09 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I loathe chopping stuff, so I prefer to get that part out of the way first, even if it means it takes longer overall to finish the dish.
posted by creepygirl at 7:12 PM on March 20
posted by creepygirl at 7:12 PM on March 20
I loathe chopping stuff
Lifehack: Pre-cut frozen veggies. They even have an onions and red bell pepper mix. Just as nutritious (possibly even more so) and tasty as fresh, without the work. The only downside is that freezing makes them a little mushy, but they work fine for stuff like soups/stews/purees where that doesn't matter. When I use them I just rinse off any accumulated ice with cold water then toss them directly in the pot to thaw while they sauté or cook.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:58 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Lifehack: Pre-cut frozen veggies. They even have an onions and red bell pepper mix. Just as nutritious (possibly even more so) and tasty as fresh, without the work. The only downside is that freezing makes them a little mushy, but they work fine for stuff like soups/stews/purees where that doesn't matter. When I use them I just rinse off any accumulated ice with cold water then toss them directly in the pot to thaw while they sauté or cook.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:58 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
I prep almost everything ahead of time--chop veggies, aromatics, etc. Put together in bowls the things that go in first. Gather the spices, measure them out, put them in a bowl or on a small plate, etc. Then put all the bowls for each dish together so I know what goes with which thing. It's a pain in the ass to wash them all but it helps me a lot. And my back starts to hurt if I stand for too long, so I can get my mise together and then sit for a bit before starting cooking.
I have ADHD, and I find that if I have not prepped ahead I start to panic and then cooking isn't any fun at all. And I have to keep checking the recipe to make sure I don't forget anything even it is right in front of my face. I made shrimp in black bean sauce the other day and forgot to put the scallions in at the end even though they were right there on the counter. I threw them in at the table.
It helps me stay organized and makes the experience more enjoyable. I like cooking but I don't like panicking.
posted by ceejaytee at 4:59 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
I have ADHD, and I find that if I have not prepped ahead I start to panic and then cooking isn't any fun at all. And I have to keep checking the recipe to make sure I don't forget anything even it is right in front of my face. I made shrimp in black bean sauce the other day and forgot to put the scallions in at the end even though they were right there on the counter. I threw them in at the table.
It helps me stay organized and makes the experience more enjoyable. I like cooking but I don't like panicking.
posted by ceejaytee at 4:59 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
Are we going to measure, or are we going to cook? Mimi "NYT" Sheraton (1926-2023).
I painted this on a length of fax-roll and hung it over the range when my kids were learning to cook. What are you going to do when you're 15km from the store, the recipe requires 3 eggs but you've only got two? Eat toast?? No, you're going to fire your mise out the window and make something adjacent . . . every cake is different but every cake is good.
posted by BobTheScientist at 5:47 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
I painted this on a length of fax-roll and hung it over the range when my kids were learning to cook. What are you going to do when you're 15km from the store, the recipe requires 3 eggs but you've only got two? Eat toast?? No, you're going to fire your mise out the window and make something adjacent . . . every cake is different but every cake is good.
posted by BobTheScientist at 5:47 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
- If your face is dirty, face the spray, if your back is dirty, face away
- If your butt is sore, stand, if your legs are sore, sit
If your butt is sore, point the spray at your butt.
posted by biffa at 6:14 AM on March 21
- If your butt is sore, stand, if your legs are sore, sit
If your butt is sore, point the spray at your butt.
posted by biffa at 6:14 AM on March 21
I have ADHD, and I find that if I have not prepped ahead I start to panic and then cooking isn't any fun at all.
Same. ADHD is funny in that, it makes it so anything that is mundane or routine bores the living hell out of me, but without routine I can't get anything done at a reasonable rate.
posted by grubi at 6:48 AM on March 21 [4 favorites]
Same. ADHD is funny in that, it makes it so anything that is mundane or routine bores the living hell out of me, but without routine I can't get anything done at a reasonable rate.
posted by grubi at 6:48 AM on March 21 [4 favorites]
I do like getting things done up front, especially when attempting a recipe for the first time. If a recipe is well received it makes it into the Recipe folder, where it shows up as a txt file and a pdf version. This involves copying and cleaning up the original source material, not only so I can try to fit everything on one page (goodbye color commentary), but because this also helps me understand the process better. When possible, I will break up the ingredients into sections based on when they are used, so that I'll need less dishes for en place. Example, for my IP red beans & rice, part of the ingredient list looks like this:
2 pounds dried red beans, rinsed and sorted over
1/2 lb. smoked sausage, split lengthwise, cut into 1/2 circles, and sep. into 1/3 and 2/3 amounts
-
3 tablespoons bacon grease
1/4 cup chopped tasso or pickled pork
1 ham hock (optional)
-
1-1/2 cups chopped yellow onions
3/4 cup chopped celery
3/4 cup chopped green bell peppers
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
Pinch cayenne
...
I know that when I am doing my prep I can put all of the 'sections' together in the same bowl. Often, I will have the same ingredients showing up multiple times in the list, like water or oil, where in the original recipe they might call for 1 cup water, but then call for just 1/3 of the water in one step, and the other 2/3 further down. If I don't break things out like this I will think all of it is used in the first step, dump it in there, and then my dad mode cursing gets turned on ("Darn darn darny darn!").
Anyhow, doing it this way still gets the prep out of the way, with less tiny bowls of stuff to wash and manage.
posted by garisimo at 10:39 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
2 pounds dried red beans, rinsed and sorted over
1/2 lb. smoked sausage, split lengthwise, cut into 1/2 circles, and sep. into 1/3 and 2/3 amounts
-
3 tablespoons bacon grease
1/4 cup chopped tasso or pickled pork
1 ham hock (optional)
-
1-1/2 cups chopped yellow onions
3/4 cup chopped celery
3/4 cup chopped green bell peppers
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
Pinch cayenne
...
I know that when I am doing my prep I can put all of the 'sections' together in the same bowl. Often, I will have the same ingredients showing up multiple times in the list, like water or oil, where in the original recipe they might call for 1 cup water, but then call for just 1/3 of the water in one step, and the other 2/3 further down. If I don't break things out like this I will think all of it is used in the first step, dump it in there, and then my dad mode cursing gets turned on ("Darn darn darny darn!").
Anyhow, doing it this way still gets the prep out of the way, with less tiny bowls of stuff to wash and manage.
posted by garisimo at 10:39 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
Pinch cayenne
Always get consent before pinching!
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:20 AM on March 21 [3 favorites]
Always get consent before pinching!
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:20 AM on March 21 [3 favorites]
Lifehack: Pre-cut frozen veggies.
Yeah, this kind of changed my life. I hate chopping veggies, and when I realized I could cook whatever I want without doing so by just getting them pre-chopped it made me realize I can actually really enjoy cooking.
posted by biogeo at 7:25 PM on March 21 [3 favorites]
I am also an ADHD cook (and I imagine that so many professional chef people must be ADHD, because why else would they always be trying out new things?). I never have fully found my rhythm in cooking, but maybe I'm getting closer? This whole thread made me think that it might make sense to have a second cutting board set up so that after all the chopping, the ingredients were kinda just set out in order to be scraped off the board and into the pan? Like, the first chopping board has space for the remnants and ends and whatever, and when the ingredient is nice and clean and cut and ready, you put it in its right-timing pile over there on the second guy? I also like washing and peeling and chopping slow, though, because how often do you get to touch nice stuff that was grown and remember all the blah-blah true hippie things about food and the earth?
I always do love the part where stuff is ready and put in the right adding order and you can have music on and a nice tallboy or whatever and you get to watch the colors and textures change and smell the smells. Stir when you should. Let it sit (by almost just sitting on your hands) when stuff needs to brown up a bit. It's like creating your own chemistry experiment for yourself, taking it all in. Washing a dish or two when the onions are gonna take themselves a minute. I definitely don't think each little thing has to have its own tiny bowl. Although tiny bowls are fun.
It took me a long time to get here. Also, this thread has made me think that it might be a wildly weird and nice gift to delicately chop up a buncha freezable veggies and, like, give my other neuro weirdo friends frozen packets of mirepoix or something. slappy_pinchbottom, your way seems like a good good way.
posted by lauranesson at 10:20 PM on March 21 [3 favorites]
I always do love the part where stuff is ready and put in the right adding order and you can have music on and a nice tallboy or whatever and you get to watch the colors and textures change and smell the smells. Stir when you should. Let it sit (by almost just sitting on your hands) when stuff needs to brown up a bit. It's like creating your own chemistry experiment for yourself, taking it all in. Washing a dish or two when the onions are gonna take themselves a minute. I definitely don't think each little thing has to have its own tiny bowl. Although tiny bowls are fun.
It took me a long time to get here. Also, this thread has made me think that it might be a wildly weird and nice gift to delicately chop up a buncha freezable veggies and, like, give my other neuro weirdo friends frozen packets of mirepoix or something. slappy_pinchbottom, your way seems like a good good way.
posted by lauranesson at 10:20 PM on March 21 [3 favorites]
Also, and I don't know if this will help anyone other than me and my spectrum-y spouse, but Amy Schumer Learns to Cook is on what is now called Max, and watching an amazing chef with autism and a comedian who seems nearer my own dubious psychology try cooking together during lockdown was kinda nice. They mostly succeed, and I learned some stuff. Amy is not that brave about trying stuff at first, but her dude Chris is encouraging and open and it's pretty lovely.
posted by lauranesson at 10:32 PM on March 21
posted by lauranesson at 10:32 PM on March 21
In my house we call this "SMEP" from "Standard Mise en Place" which was the reference in Michael Ruhlman's EXCELLENT "The Making of a Chef". This really helped me get my act together with respect to cooking. My wife is an improviser all the way but I am not. I also really like prep and find I can do it most effectively if I do it all at once. I have my big board, I have my knife rhythm, I have all my lovely bowls. Conversely I don't care that much about measurement but I do know proportions of veg for a stirfry or a stew. and now that I think about it as I read this, I will almost always start the onions going because they take far longer than the recipe says.
It would drive me bananananas when my teens would just start cooking at speed line by line, usually watching youtube, and get to step 4 and yell "where's the cocoa powder" and I'd be all "this is why we SMEP, so we confirm that we have the things we need!"
plus as someone else references above, with SMEP done you can grab a glass of wine and fire stuff into the pan in sequence, and everything is very zen.
Finally: there are two kinds of people, those who need epistemological closure and
posted by hearthpig at 4:08 PM on March 22
It would drive me bananananas when my teens would just start cooking at speed line by line, usually watching youtube, and get to step 4 and yell "where's the cocoa powder" and I'd be all "this is why we SMEP, so we confirm that we have the things we need!"
plus as someone else references above, with SMEP done you can grab a glass of wine and fire stuff into the pan in sequence, and everything is very zen.
Finally: there are two kinds of people, those who need epistemological closure and
posted by hearthpig at 4:08 PM on March 22
There are two kinds of people:
1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:16 PM on March 22
1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:16 PM on March 22
Also, I have visions in my head now of Steve Allen shouting "SMEP! SMEP!"
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:25 PM on March 22
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:25 PM on March 22
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posted by SPrintF at 11:53 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]